Defining Worth and Future Outlook

Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of On Fantasy early and ad free Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple podcasts Oh, now I feel nervous. I feel nervous. Now my heart's gone a little bit On a hot summer day last year Leon, Sam and I drove three hours out to an Airbnb in the middle of a trailer park to meet a manwill called Gean Sam had booked this unconventional location because it was cheap, and also because we wanted to meet Gene in a place where there was no possibility that anyone he knew would see him In Sam's Defense, it was actually listed as an RV resort. Wait how long has this person been a subscriber? Six months, but u I think he was following me on Instagram beforehand Weest Leon's Dancy, Leona. Leon just looks like Leon Are you Anie I wasn't antsie But there was something surreal about sitting in this cramped trailer, waiting for this person who I couldn't help but feel a little suspicious towards. Gracy said he'd always been very nice and respectful towards her. Other than that, I didn't know much about him. I wondered if he was going to strike me as creepy or deluded, or in the parlance of the mananosphere, a simp pitiful fan obsessed with Gracacey and star strruck to be in her presence. Jesus, Leon. Sorry. I'm mostly saying this because I was touched to observe that you didn't seem to view him this way at all. I did not, but I was still nervous to meet Jean in my own way because I guess I didn't want him to be disappointed I know our friend Bog Don would call me a sucker, but I cared. I even touched up my makeup while we waited for him. Can you tell about my eyebrow Your eybres look normal to me I was like, I'm going to be so real. and like I'm in t shirt and jeans, but I also I'm like, you know, I want to be pretty for this person, which is weird because I don't even feel that way on dates. Oh, I think it's C'ploring now Okay, I see him. o, looks he looks normal. He looks normal Do you w to open it? Sure. Okay, All right Oh my God, how are you? All right. C on, come on in. We're doing this immediately. Hi. Hi, It's so good to meet you. S here. All right, you look like you're not gonna kill me. Not that I was worried, but could No, it's understand. You could. I mean, you learned me to a trailer park I. If anything, I'm gonna kill you. That's what I kind of I know To be clear, meeting up with Gene was my idea, not his. I was the one who wanted to cross that boundary with one of my subscribers, and with him in particular. Because out of everyone I'd gotten to know on O fans, he seemed both representative and also unique Meeting him and asking him how only Fans had become part of his life, how I had become part of his life Felt like a critical final step along the journey Leon and I had embarked upon By this point, we had talked to successful creators, heads of only fans agencies, chatatters, subscribers who have been swindled We had done all this in hopes of answering the question What is it that only fans, this distinctly new form of intimacy, is doing for people that a real life partner or regular porn And what can people like me on the outside looking in Learn from Only fans about how the world is changing I was looking for proof that the cynics were missing something, that online intimacy between strangers could, in fact be more than just transactional or exploitative in one direction or the other Bogdon had said to me that I shouldn't care about my subscribers because quote They do not care about you. And that had stuck with me Going into this meeting with Gean, I felt vulnerable As much as I've always taken pride in being my authentic self online and on my only fans page in particular, What if Jean, when confronted with a real me, didn't like what he saw What if he preferred the fantasy This is the sixth and final episode of Only Fantasy. Wolves only Whether you're exploring your fascinations or discovering new ones, Ottawa has stories that will introduce you to your most fascinating self. Tap into a whole new world of heated conversations with a saucy romantasy series. Know how true the latest blockbuster movie stayed to the sci fi story it was based on, or find unexpected reveals through an exclusive trrue crime podcast. However you listen Audible keeps you fascinated so you can be just as fascinating. Select any audio book every month, plus exclusive podcasts. pllans now start at eight dollars ninety nine cents. Audible. Be fascinated, be fascinating Whether you're exploring your fascinations or discovering new ones, Oawa has stories that will introduce you to your most fascinating self. Tap into a whole new world of heated conversations with a saucy romantasy series. Know how true the latest blockbuster movie stayed to the sci fi story it was based on, or find unexpected reveals through an exclusive trrue Crime podcast However you listen, Audible keeps you fascinated, so you can be just as fascinating. Select any audio book every month plus exclusive podcasts. pllans now start at eight dollars ninety nineents Audible. be fascinated, be fascinated I was kind of nervous. to meet you. Are you nervous? Are you kidding me? I don't know. You seem like It's all a facade, my dear. I'm just I'm incredibly nervous. Re Really? Oh. Okay, I w to make us both not nervous. Gene, again, not his real name, was never one of my top subscribers in terms of the money he spent But we talked fairly regularly I liked to getting messages from him, and I always felt like I could be myself when replying I feel so comfy because I feel like I'm I feel like her voice When we chat is exactly the same Vibe as I'm getting right now And it's very comforting because I always feel very comforted. No, that's not tal to you U Which maybe shouldn't tell you because now you're like, well she enjoys it. so I'm just not gonna to give her I'm like Jean, still need to pay rent. but seeeeing Jean and Gracie together, I felt like I was watching a reunion between two old friends from summer camp There was a general giddiness as they caught up and chit chatted about their cats Gracie even tried to convince Gean to get the automatic litter box she has for her cat engine. Tell me you have an automatic litter box. No we don't. I'm the automatic litter box. I no, no, no. you got it. It's the best three hundred dollars. Hold on. I' show you It is not what I would have pictured if you'd asked me to imagine this scenario when I first started working on this podcast If only because geneans struck me as pretty normal for lack of a better word. Clean cut Well dressed, polite, particularly awkward So how did he end up here I'm a forty something man who's been married for Quite a long time I've got a child. and the life that I live is a very isolating one And I have found myself over the years wanting more emotional connection with people in the world. The story of how Gracie turned out to be one of those people started in a place that I was not expecting Je just really loved stand upp comedy So there are a couple of different comedians I follow and There's something I get in terms of emotional fulfillment by watching them, whether it's living vicariously, I wishing I couldn't do that? You know? I mean, if I were to do it all over again in college, I would probably try stand up comedy just because I enjoy so much of what you all do. It pains me to say this to a man, but There's still time to try it. There's lots of possibilities in life and a lot of things need to change in my life for me to be able to live the life I actually want to live. And I think that's one reason why I'm so much a voyer One day while casually scrolling through Instagram. Genean stumbled upon a new comedian who caught his eye. Gracy shows up on there and I'm just like, whoa. like I actually stopped. I was like, who is this Jean thought Gracie was funny, but from the very beginning, it was more than that Curious about her about her life, her point of view I just kind of enjoyed her vibe where it was like that sort of self effacing humor, that's sort of, you know, what's like living in New York? Here I am with my day job. For me it just was just like, well, we just keep on following her and don't annoy her, but you just kind of follow her and see what she's up to. And then the only fans popped up Jene had been quietly following me on Instagram for a few months when, one day in twenty twenty four, he noticed that I hadd posted a story announcing that my most devoted fans could now access more exclusive content and actually talk to me on only fans. I did actually do the fist pump in the air of excitement. I'm gonna to be totally honest. I just think she has such a great voice and such unique look. It was more than just like, wow, she's hot. There's depth there. there's stories there You know, there's pasts there and there's more than just like surface There's There's something genuine within you that I really like It wasn't just about seeing you naked I felt like we could actually have a friendship But to be fair like I look sick naked. Well, I mean, that's a bonus, you know? I mean, I'm being stupid, I'm fishing That's how Jean and Gracey met Gene told us he and his wife met in college He remembers being infatuated with her from the moment he saw her I felt like I'd hit my lighting And I was like, who is this woman She just had such a unique look to her And there was such kindness emanating from her. And I'm like, who, what is going on here And how would you compare that to like where you are now Well, you know, they really say it is a marathon and not a sprint. And we've been through a lot of Odd stuff over the last deceade didn't change from family to physical trauma to, you know, hospital stuff to diagnoses and other sorts of things. So It's evolved. It's not what it was. Do doesn't mean it's bad. It's just different And it's accepting what that difference is It's two people. so you're going to have needs that are met and needs that aren't met. And so it's just coming to terms with what those are and saying I need this But if the partner is unable or cannot give that, then what do you do Gene said that at a certain point, he and his wife had gone three years without being physically intimate whichich I'm inclined to think is a pretty decisive dead end. Yeah. I mean, I've never been married, which is shocking to learn at this point in the series. I know. But I have been in serious relationships where I felt that distance that Jean's talking about. And I remember feeling empty So hearing about Gean's situation, I silently asked myself, What would I do And honestly I think I'd leave And yet Je didn't feel like leaving was an option She still doesn't It has to do with factors in his life we agreed not to disclose in order to protect his family's privacy But we can't say he feels a sense of responsibility not just to his wife, but to his child In fact, when we asked him if he'd ever thought about leaving He said he could only imagine it happening if his wife was the one to initiate it I think it would have to be one of those things where she would have to be like, I can't do this anymore and you need to leave. Like that would be different. But I don't think I could do it At this point Genean's insistence on staying the course made a little more sense after he told us about his family his original family, the one he was raised in His parents had an unhappy marriage, and not only did they insist on white knnuckling it, His father affirmatively instilled in Jean that that was the right thing to do the entire refrain for my dad was actually If you date a girl, you hold ono her for dear life because breaking up is one of the worst things you could possibly ever do, you will never be able to get over it And that's the message I got my entire life So Jean stayed. And whenever he felt like his needs weren't being met He did what millions of other men do. Porn I'm not saying that I needed things physical all the time But I mean Troughts were very common or are very common I should say And at times there, I was told, well, I don't know if it's ever going to happen again I was at a loss I was depressed. I was really depressed So I would just do the physical components of going online, looking at porn And then maybe like six months before the pandemic I stumbled onto a chat room. And for me that kind of changed my whole approach to it And then I started talking to people online, women online This was new to Gene. and when he was first starting out, he found it shocking that he was doing it. I was like, what am I even doing? Why am I doing this? This isn't something I would do. But after a while, it became a habit Sometimes he would watch live streams on campsites. other times he would pay to talk to women in one on one video chats And soon, Ge found himself having actually meaningful experiences online. I would interact with these women who were in their late thirties, early forties, mid forties. and it was really nice, you know. Not to be too graphic, but one of the things that they have on there is the are you familiar with the Lush device It's that basically it's a vibrating device that you can control based on the amount of tokens you can use The Lush device is a vibrating sex toy that makes the camming experience more interactive Basically, the cam model will insert the device down there. and whenever someone sends her a tip or a token It vibrates So you do a hundred tokens goes, you know, a wave pulse for thirty seconds, something like that. So There was something very, especially at a point where I was in such a drought. somethinghing very meaningful about having this nice conversation, connection with somebody. and then being able to Push a button Hitably and be able to you legitimately give them pleasure to a point of arousal to Ecstasy was intoxicating. becausecause it's like, wow, I'm able actually to do something in my life that I can actually see the clear result with And that helps sustay me in points, especially during the pandemic and other things where I felt at such a loss So as hard as that time was in many ways, that was one of the few bright spots I had emotionally because it made me feel like I could actually do something. even though it was something as simple as pushing a button to make a woman Legitimly orgasm, and that was a wild thing to see That really made me feel emotional hearing you talk about that? At this point in our conversation, Sam, who had been holding a microphone in front of Jean's face this whole time, was moved to interject Like, I guess just hearing a man be like I want give aan pleure to give a woman pleasure in like a very genuine way just made me as a straight woman feel emotional. I was like getting mistyy hearing that's so sad. It' really saying, this shit is really emotional. Well, it's also I mean the whole reason we're happy to be talking to you and like so grateful that you're opening up is that it is also just really rare to hear a man talk vulnerably about this stuff. Oh, sure. And I think too with my voyer Tendencies, that's another component to, another layer to it to be able to see that in a where that's the gratification I'm getting There's a part of me that can hear Bogedon laughing at Jean saying that these stupid American men will fall for anything, and those women were probably faking their orgasms But I'm choosing to look at this from Gean's perspective That comfort that he got for making a woman feel good was real He got satisfaction by essentially caring about a stranger And I hate the idea of anyone laughing at that two hours into our conversation Gracie had to step out of the trailer to take a call I took the opportunity to ask Jean to talk behind her back a little and elaborate on what he gets out of their relationship I'm able to turn on a device and see her I say, upp, she's here up, she's in this state. Oh, she's doing this. Oh, she's, you know, working here. Oh, she's in a sketcher with this guy. Oh, she's in a sketcher with this lady. all that stuff. It's fun to see what she does because I just I don't know. And part of me is enjoying that sort of chaotic unknown her. You're invested in her in her journey, Yes, because I can't have the freedom to do those things, but she can And so I think a lot of it too is the freedom that her lifestyle portrays my mind You know what makes me think I was the other day when she was posting on Instagram, the photos of her and her friends packing up their car for like a road trip, did you see those? Oh yeah yeah, yeah yeah for her birthday or something. Yeahah You know, I mean Graceie and I we've been working together for a couple of months, but I don't know a lot about her life outside of work.. And so seeing her like ack up a van with her friends, I was like I don't know, Maybe you feelll something. Yeah, it was neat to see her like go to like the cat skills and it's like, Ohh wow, this is like so New York. This is so interesting to me. I don't w want to say it's like, you know A longing for the past, but there is like a nostalgia feel. about like my life could have been more like this if I had taken more risks Maybe I could have met somebody like her. So many people my age and friends that I know, very few of them actually like the life they have. A lot of them would change a lot of things about their lives. And I don't know if it's just being in our forties or whatever, but a lot of things just haven't come to fruition the way we want it to. And so we've had to adjust in certain ways And so I think by me doing these things And interacting with her and the others is a way for me to kind of stave that off and kind of stop it from happening into a full blown panic and give myself some sort of comfort and some sort of longing for what I really would like, but I know I can never have Hello, I'm Matt Ford. And I'm Alice Levine. And we're the hosts of British Scandal. Yes, we are, and our new series starts with a loud, lovable woman from Bermmondsey who becomes one of the most famous people in Britain. This is the story of Jade Goody, the reality TV star who built a fortune just by being herself. And then lost everything in one of the most public racism scandals Britain has ever seen. It's a story of fame? and a change of the conversation around cervical cancer forever Follow British Scandal wherever you get your podcasts or listen early and ad free on Audible Whether you're exploring your current fascinations or discovering new ones, Audible has all the stories that'll introduce you to your most fascinating self. Tap into a whole new world of heated conversations with a Sucy romantasy series. Become your friend group's sci fi expert on the latest blockbuster book to screen adaptation Or find unexpected reveals through the exclusive episodes of a viral true crime podcast. However you choose to listen, Audible keeps you fascinated, so you can be just as fascinating. All in one easy app, with plans now starting at eight do ninety nine cents, you'll get access to over one million audio books and podcasts, including trending bestestsellers hottest new releases and exclusive podcasts you won't find anywhere else. Sign up now to become a member and get any audio book every month Plus exclusive podcasts. pllans now start at eight dollars ninety nineents Be fascinated, be fascinating So Leon, when I got back into the trailer, I remember the vibe being surprisingly warm. like your private conversation had aired out some inhibitions and made you both more at ease, which was nice and kind of surprising. Well so I remember in that moment I don't know maybe this is what you were picking up on I was trying to figure out whether I related to Gean or not because You know, he had been talking about how he felt stuck and that being in his forties it felt like his life was not over, but sort of done changing. And On the one hand, you know, I'm also in my forties and there's all kinds of stuff I'm resigned to never doing or never doing again I The main thing I was thinking was just How lucky I am Not only because I'm married to someone I'm in love with, though that's a big one Because my life doesn't feel over it all. I live in New York. I have a bunch of dear friends. if I Throw party, people come I just feel surrounded by possibility gene just isn't All he has is the internet And I guess it' just feels. Unfair All right, well, now you're just bragging I'm doing it to make a point, which is you know Maybe we need only fans, even if not all of us. need only fans.. Like maybe everyone needs something and society as a whole is better off if more of us can get it Yeah, and Just because someone does get something from On fans doesn't mean that it defines them or that It's their only source of fulfillment. I'm curious do you have other thingsings that let you feel Like you're experiening things vicariously, like other than only fans, I I don't, Is there other stuff in your life where you find that U So For the past twenty plus years Whenever I travel somewhere, I like to do a little research and kind of see if somebody notable is buried there I'm a big mystery nut. I like to go visit historical sites and I like to visit graves of famous people. So what I like about it is being able to go and locate somebody that has had such a footnote in history, whether you talk to them or you just see what their grave is like. I just like the idea of the personal connection. I mean, not to say it's like with Gracie or like with Falling and Only Fans, but I like the personal connection You're pilgrimaging to somebody. You're taking your time out of your day, you're doing the research. I just like the fact of going out through the peacefulness quiet of finding one, you know, And then you have like five minutes with somebody who did whatever and being able to basically have a one on one with them is really kind of amazing for me. So maybe this is podcast your brain, Gracy, but Is it a stretch to say these pilgrimages Gene takes have something in common with the relationships he has forma only fans It's not one to one, but also It's kind of the ultimate parasocial relationship, isn't it? sort of reaching out across time and space to make a connection with someone that your normal life, your real life would never otherwise connect you to In this analogy, am I the corpse? You are. Oh, cool. No, I think you're onto something. like at its best, the kind of digital intimacy you can buy on only fans can expand your world I mean, for a simple transaction, it lets you imagine and even experience a different life My only other question was, you were describing Y friends who are in similar life stag as you Cool who have various disappointments they're grappling with in their own ways. You have your way. Right. And I think We see it erupt in horrible ways all too often where people just become seemingly so angry and sort of driven mad by anger. I'm curious, like what's the difference between someone who reacts with anger to the disappointment and the struggle that we're talking about and someone like you who seemingly is not angry. L you don't come across as angry and you don't you know, what's going right with you, I guess is a adble because of Gracie. Well, I think what Gracie kind of represents for me is kind of like a muse type thing. But I think at least my experience, what you need to recognize is that you need to give yourself the grace you want to give other people Pon the pundent. I mean, you got to give yourself the The love and affection before you're able to really bestow upon other people. And so once I stopped judging myself harshly, look I used to be very cruel to myself. I mean, I ate a lot. I just did not take care of myself at all. and it was really passive suicidality, honestly. But once I started understanding what I need to do And changing my perspectives made a big difference for me Was joining the chat sites like part of the journey It was part of the self realization of who I actually am. Because again, you have an idea like, Oh, I'm a good person, I do this, I do that. But then it's like, who are you really though And realizing this is actually a part of me, and not necessarily something to be ashamed of, but something to kind of embrace. One of the nice things about chatting with Gracie is I like writing. Writing is fun and I get to be creative when I write. And so along with that, it's like, what words come out? how am I feeling? You know, did she inspiire me to say a certain thing? And so again, that's why I brought up the muse thing is that sometimes when you do get struck by such beauty in certainays it does come out of you And I think that's something that can also be applied to traveling and seeing the world and seeing natural wonders as well as seeing certain graves sites because like some of them are incredibly moving So I think to get back to your question, I would say that you need to really learn more about who you are as a person And understanding that you can do things that are maybe morally complicated in our society, but that doesn't mean you're bad It just means you're more complex And By this point, Leon and I had been talking to Gean in this trailer for almost three hours And I noticed in those final moments sitting next to Jean, that the nerves we'd had leading up to this meeting were long gone And so is my apprehension that Jean would be disillusioned with the real me. In fact, It was kind of the opposite Whatever mutual appreciation we'd found in our digital world was present and palpable throughout our in person meeting. It actually seemed like we felt more comfortable in reality than we had in our fantasy Still, I was mentally fried, and not only that I had to leave to attend a dear friend's wedding that same evening, which in this moment seemed ironic After listening to a tale of a near doomed union, I felt like watching my friend walk down the aisle would be more like watching him walk the planks. I can't believe I have to go to a wedding after this. D I like trarain you emotionally? No, like, yes, but like not in a bad way. I'm like I feel so like I don't know I wasn't expecting to feel kind of mad. Oh, really? What do you mean feel kind of mad at like I don't know. I just I feel mad at men that are pigs. I just In the same way you said muse, I look at you who has been through a lot of shit and who's chosen to be a good smart, self aware person and I'm like pissed at other people that can't figure it out You are your own problem and I am not your fucking solution. And I feel like that's such a difference between you. It's you're like, I am my own responsibility. There's no lightning bolt or only fans account that's gonna to fix No, you're not going to cure me by any means. That's not what it's about. It's about just kinship and about appreciation of other people. Yeah. So yeah, it's not for you to fix men They need to fix themselves. It's possible we try. You might for thoset want to. It might be helpful. Or it might be a cry, yeah. I mean, I got so much other shit to do, you know, laundry. We take care of engines. Engine. I miss her. I'm excited to go back. Be good Thanks Lesson here in Oh, Halio. Sorry I was like, I might as well be recording when you walok up In January of twenty twenty six, Sam and I met up once again to visit Gracie at her apartment in Brooklyn This time, it was a different apartment. Gracy had just moved in.'s see what let's see what this only fan's money can buy. Hello Hello Things are messy right now.. Yeah, I can give you a little tour. We had been working on this podcast together for the length of a pregnancy. And while our little podcast baby was gestating, a lot had changed for Gracie. About a month before our visit Gracie and two of her closest friends had moved into a beautiful two story home. These are my roommates, yeah.am, Leon.. Nice meet' here. They've been putting up with me for up. Who are you talking? Eone puts up with me. As Gracie showed us around her new place, I didn't spot a cold plunge anywhere. Cracy did show us some amenities that are just as impressive for a Brooklyn apartment Yeah, we have a backyard that we haven't touched yet it's winter and like a washer dryer and a dishwasher, a non working fireplace. And doesn't this marble kitchen island look great for shooting some content? It I think it rivals the creator's ink house. What do you 's not gonna happen To make it when you guys aren't here. When you guys aren gone. No porn in the kitchen. Whatup Gracie took me and Sam up to the second floor of the house, where her office slash content roomates. It's where as they say, the magic happens. And by magic, I mean it's where Gracie now makes all of her only fans content But it's also where she writes for comedy scripts and does self tape auditions for acting gigs, and works on this podcast As it happens, some of Gracie's subscribers helped her furnish the new office via her Amazon wishlist I did just get an u Like a hard drive and some closet organizers on my wishlist Which sounds not sexy, but I love and the subscriber knows I love. And he goes, you know, I love practical gifts to make your life better.miley face from and then his name, and it's his actual name. So You could I'm not gonna say it.. Yeah, I absolutely could Gracie had just passed her one year only fans anniversary. She called it her fans' aniversary And I wanted to have one last check in before we wrapped. because Back when we started, she was making side hustle money. She had under a hundred subscribers Nine months later, she had over four thousand. And as you heard in the previous episode, Gracie was struggling at first with that influx of new fans But she was determined to take back control and become an even more professional girlfriend She created two only fans pages, the free one that we talked about and a separate one for her VIPs To manage all that, Gracie needed extra hands. So taking her lessons from months of talking to OF agencies and managers, She hired a friend to do some admin for her Gracie even printed out a badge for her with the title Head of Operations to make it official. I had her do kind of almost how would you call it Intake I had her do some intake messages. consonsults like Consulting. Yeah. And with like brand new people and kind of being like, who's promising, who's not. And she was like, actually I think there's a way more efficient way that we can do this. And she used her background in politics and fundraising to be like what we want to get you to do is make as much or more money with less effort Gracie and her friend, slash assistant, came up with a system When a new subscriber joins Gracie's free page, her friend often sends out the initial, Hey buddy, what are you doing here, Message? what Gracie calls intake to suss out if the new subscriber is a show pussy guy, a genean, or someone in between puts a specific emoji next to the new subscriber's name in Gracie's inbox so that Gracie then knows what kind of guy she's dealing with. Wolves are the highest ones, then dogs, then mice Th then goose eggs and those are people who haven't spent any, and then negative is pigs. So pigs are basically blocked, but I have kept them labeled in case we need negative messages for this podcast. Once this podcast is over, those pigs are going to be blocked. They're gonna to be slaughtered. Yeah, yeah, those pigs are gonna be sent to the slaughterouse So far, the system seems to be working Graciey's been able to quit her day job and focus more of her time pursuing comedy. Now we're at kind of like a cruising altitude. It feels good. It's without getting into specific numbers. It's about Souble a little over double what I made at my day job No shit Yeah, but for fraction of the time. I was gonna ask, like that was twenty five percent. Like I'm on OF maybe two hours a day If that, Like Five days a week. so Now your day job was a full time engagement. Full time going in You know, not bad, but not That whiches. Yeah. How's I feelel I feel like I've grown up. For the first time, it's like I'm in my mid thirties now and I feel like I lived like a frraat boy for ten years here and then I just just skipped the line to adult. feels nice. And is that Was that was that made possible by Ofans? Yeah, deffinitely. Yeah I think the thing I'm the most surprised by is how I feel so calm. You tell yourself for so long that You know I just got a muscle through. It's fine. this is part of it. and it is in a way But you have to tell yourself all of these things. to muscle through and like eat beans and rice and cut all these corners and do all this stuff. and then you arrive to a place of stability. and you're like, oh my God Money can buy peace. If you've done happiness then you. Yeah, ye, Money can definitely buy more calm Do think putting dollar figures on your time and attention has e you into like what those things are actually wor. Absolutely. Absolutely because it is very hard to quantify how someone should treat you and what they should say to you, or how much time you can make for them, how much affection. It is very hard to quantify time, affection, and energy. And when you do start putting a dollar figure on it and you can feel, oh, this this feels like a good amount for what I'm giving. Oh, this feels not like I'm saying relationships should be tit for tat and should be transactional. but there have been a lot of times since starting OF where I say, Well, what is this relationship doing for me? I'm talking to this goose egg You know what I mean? I'm talking to this this pig. Yeah, I'm talking to this person who isn't giving me any money and who is in fact saying derogatory things to me Why am I giving them any of my energy when I could be giving this other person my energy who fills me up It's like strengthened my gut. in okay, this doesn't feel good. this feels good. And then you take that gut feeling into the real world and it really helps you navigate, okay, what am I worth? I'm not gonna to let this person talk to me like this It's really like so many relationships around us whether we want to admit it or not or whether we want to use this word are transactional. And I think realizing that to some degree is actually a good thing and is actually very freeing You know, like Not everyone's going to have a high ROI I guess I wouldn't mad if my daughter went through that. And came out of it with that takeaway? Confidence? Yeah. Well, gained confidence, gained the sense of her wordth. I I broke up or I ended something with someone like two days before New Year's Um Nice enough person, but I was like You're not a VIP You know, I mean't even say u too. But it's just like you're, you know, you're Your dog