Parenting Children with ADHD

And so I was like, this is what it feels like to live with ADHD is everybody's cutting with scissors and they give you the scissors and you try to use them. and you're like, why are they not working for me? Why is everybody able to cut? And everybody's like, what, the scissors work. I just use them. you just have to cut. It's not hard. Look, I could do it. And you're like, why is this not working for me? And realizing you just needed scissors And that was kind of the metaphor I used of what it feels like to go through life feeling like, why are these systems? why are these things working for other people and not for me? And you know, so many of us end up with diagnosed with depression because there is that kind Quion mark Hello and welcome to another episode of Find Your Fuel. I'm your host, Erin Martin, and today we are talking all about ADHD with our amazing guest, Katie Weber She was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of forty five, which made her look back at life through a new lens and understand firsthand that lifelong struggles with anxiety, depression and overwhelm are not personal failures. They're biological Today we talk about how she navigated not only her own, but her kids diagnosis as well The biggest misconceptions about adult ADHD and what friends can do to better understand and support their friends with ADHD Katie is the founder of Women and eighty HD and the host of the Women and eighty HD podcast where she talks to other women who have been diagnosed later in life and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how best to lean into their strengths. I'm what I'd like to call a pandemic diagnosis. So I was talking to my therapist during shortly after lockdown in twenty twenty about how my kids were home and how I was really, really struggling. You know, like every time They needed to get on Zoom. you know, they were in like grade three and seven at the time. And so it just felt like They were just constantly asking me for things like feed me and, the wife's out. and how do I get onzit? And I just felt like I couldn't do anything. I felt like I was in suspended animation and I was like the cook, the wife, the chef, like the teacher, all of these things all at once. And I remember like complaining to my therapist about how I was trying to really focus on my business this time. And she was the one who first suggested like You know,, you should really look into ADHD And I was totally floored. I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I've often said like I was kind of insulted because I had this idea of what ADHD looked like, which was somebody who like couldn't get their act together, who failed at everything and, you know, was just like couldn't sit still and couldn't listen, and I was like, what are you seeing U because I was like the PTA president and I felt like I had done a really good job of presenting myself as this you know, high achieving, you know, A a plus plus woman. And um You know, what I really hadn't explored up until then was how much of that was a facade and how much behind the scenes, I felt like I was barely holding it together, white knuckling it and also like having a million ideas and just like, you know, this idea of hyperactivity internally wasn't really something I had explored until She had suggested like, look into ADHD and I, you know, my first reaction as I think a lot of women's first reaction is like, well, I'm not hyperactive. Like I actually think of myself as quite lazy and I can't get off a couch and you know, Um Like I always want to do things and I can't seem to get myself to do those things And so I took a self test online at Attitude Magazine. They had like online self assessments and they had a generic one for adults. And it was basically the questions that are in the diagnostic statistical manual, which are all questions that are focused on research on little boys And so a lot of the questions were like, can you not sit still? know, do you have a hard time? Do you interrupt people all the time? And again, I was like, I don't really relate to this. I kind of got like a middling score. There were some things I really resonated with, but then I took the ADHD self test specifically for adult women. And that was where I felt like my entire life flash before my eyes because a lot of that stuff, you know, a lot of the questions in that test were much more related to There was some there was some sensory stuff. likeike, do you feel overwhelmed in grocery stores? And I was like, yeah, what does that have to do with ADHD? Like it was just like, you know, do you feel like you go from zero to one hundred in terms of rage and you don't know where it's coming from? And then all of a sudden it's' You're just, you know, everybody's walking on eggshells around you. and I was like, oh dear, like I feel really called out right now. And it was just one thing after another where I just felt like it was like all of these seemingly random struggles, I had been working with and living with over the course of my life all fell under this umbrella of ADHD and it was just like Yeah, you know, very similar to a lot of women's experience. it felt like It felt like suddenly, I was looking at my whole life through this new lens and suddenly I wasn't this I mean, I've still felt like I was this person who was treading water and, you know, we often use the metaphor of the swan where it's like everyone sees this very calm version of you, but you're madly paddling underneath to trying to keep up. and that was kind of that that moment where I was like, oh, okay, this actually This actually is Dorder in some ways, right? And I think we often talk about like, is this a disorder? is this not? But anyway The pointoint is, I got diagnosed in twenty twenty And while I was pursuing the diagnosis, I was having this profound life changing experience where I felt like all of these things that I felt like I had struggled with, I had been diagnosed with depression, I had been diagnosed with anxiety, postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety. You know, I was really reevaluating all of this through this lens of neurodivergence and thinking like you know A lot of this wasn't a me problem. Like I had been looking at this as though I was somehow a failure at life. and now I was looking at it like, oh, okay, maybe there's a neurobiological reason for why I was having these reactions. and it just felt so profound. I feel like this Phoenix rising from the ashes of a really difficult moment in life. And I always joke like not many people seek an ADHD diagnosis because life is going great and they're like, I need a name for this. Usually like we've hit rock bottom in some form or another or, you know, to seek it out But I was curious if other women were having a similar experience having been diagnosed in late into adulthood. I was forty five when I was diagnosed. So you know, quite my kids were already, you know, I'd already gone through their like really hard years I was perimenopausal, which is a whole other issue. but So I started the podcast. know we were I wanted an excuse to interview other women and hear their stories adult diagnosis to figure out, you know, just mostly to learn about a lot of this experience that other people are having and just share and kind of share our experiences. but It was kind of a selfish endeavor really for me to meet other women who had been diagnosed in adulthood and just talk about this crazy life experience. You know prettyret shortly after I started it, I started to like look at some of the numbers of the listeners and think like, o, wow, this is really resonating with a lot of women right now. And I think it was You know, it was everywhere. It was on TikTok, It was on Instagram. It was, you know, it was really there was a real boom in understanding about what ADHD looks like in adult women specifically Yeah, because I was trying to look up how prevalent it was. and I think I saw a stat that said one in nine children, but increasing diagnosis for adults because when we were little, it wasn't as much there wasn't as much awareness and wasn't as much of a thing. So now There's all these late stage for later in life diagnoses happening. And so for you, after you did that self test, did you go get another more official diagnosis or like how does that work or where did you go from there? Or if some is listening and thinks, oh, that could be me What was the next step that you did I think self assessments are very helpful because it gives you something to take to your physician to say, this is what I'm experiencing. becausecause physicians are always looking for evidence of struggle. And so a lot of the time to say like, I really relate to the stuff I'm seeing on TikTok, that's not going to be enough, right with ADHD, oftentimes when you get to the doctor's office, if you're ever anything like me and they're like, anyy questions? and all of a sudden your brain goes blank and you're like, no, I'm good. we're all good. So I to like having notes, having some conversation points. I even say like save the TikToks that you relate to. save the stuff that is something to talk with your doctor about, but really like U those self assessments as a starting point to then go to your psychiatrist. I actually had my my primary doctor was comfortable diagnosing me because she was a psychiatric nurse practitioner. you know, not all primary doctors are comfortable with diagnosis, they might refer you out to a psychologist or a psychiatrist But yeah, I was formally diagnosed and I kind of had all of this paperwork and I came in there and I was going on and on and on about all the things. and you know I was so nervous that she wasn't going to believe me or she was going to say like eh you know, a year off base and I had at that point had felt like All of the research I had done up to that point, all of the reading I had done about ADHD so fully explained who I was at my core that if it wasn't ADHD, I was really, really worried Like what now? And and I think that's so That's such a like common experience for people with ADHD when it comes to an adult diagnosis is the like, what if I'm not believed? What if I've gotten this wrong? And so I often will say to people like, if that's how you're feeling, going to the doctor, worried that somebody's not going to believe you or worried that you somehow confused the information. like you're pretty much on the right track at that point because it says so much about our lived experience And so yeah, so I had all this paperwork and I was like, blah bl, blah, blah, blah blah And realizing at that point, you know, that I had her at Hello, she very clearly was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you have it. But she asked me a question, which was she asked me like, do you lose stuff? And I was like, no, I actually don't lose things I don't feel like I'm a really you know, I don I actually have, you know, I have an exact place where I leave my purse. I know exactly where my keys are. I have a, you know, everything has a place and I set it up and I never lose my glasses because I actually went ahead and bought six pairs of glasses and so I have one in every car and one by the TV and one by and she was like You work really, really hard to not forget things justust it felt like a gut punch where I was like, oh Oh, I see. Yeah, you're right. Okay, I see where you're going with this where it was like it's not necessarily about the deficits. It's about like how hard you're working against some of these perceived deficits. And so that was like a light bulb moment for me where I was like, oh yeah, I am working really, really hard to remember things you know, and just thinking about like if I turn on a pot of boiling water, I have to set a timer. I have to like, you know, otherwise I'll forget it exists. So like all of those ways in which we are working really, really hard to just remember basic items and just show up on time and just you know remember birthdays or all of these things that are involved with working memory and executive functioning And then and then at the same time not really knowing we're doing that. And so that at the end of the day, you're feeling like, well, why am I so exhausted all the time? I don't feel like I'm doing all of this work An executive function is one of those things where I've seen it or heard it be a central challenge to having ADHD, but it can often be misunderstood. Can you talk a little more about that I think's I mean, executive functions are not anything I had ever heard of before I was diagnosed with ADHD. I think teachers tend to know a lot about it more than the average Joe. So I had no idea what it was until I was diagnosed and started doing my own research into like how can I make my life better? And what do I need? and what support systems do I need And so essentially, executive functions are The way in which our brain, it's kind of like the management of our brain. And so it involves working memories. so short term memorory. So if you feel like you walk into a room a lot of the time and you're like, why am I here? O, you know you know, you forget boiling pot or you forget, you know, I have to go to a doctor's office and you know, I have a doctor's appointment and I have to like remember really, really hard to get there on time or otherwise I'm going to be late and you know, like all of the ways in which we have to a lot of brainpower to remember things that are not long. you know, in our distant memory. So all of that like short term memory stuff is is an executive function. But it's also the ability to prioritize information. And so if you think about something like Um you know, uh I use the example of Thanksgiving dinner, right? Like Thanksgiving dinner, we all know what it is and we all know it's a major, major event. and we all know that there's many, many different meals involved. And so you don't go to the grocery store with Thanksgiving dinner written on sheet of paper. you have to think about like, okay, what are all the steps involved before I go to the grocery store? What are the dishes I'm making? Who's making what? What do I have in my pantry? What are the ingredients involved? So all of that is like additional information that sometimes we tend to just clump into a larger category And so with somebody with executive function difficulties, a lot of the time each one of those relatively minor steps feels like a much bigger step that has to be done and oftentimes we'll see all of those steps at the same time. I liken it to like, you know, a table covered in those buzzers when you're going to like a chain restaurant to tell you that your table is ready. That's what it feels like where you're like I have fifty things to do and all of a sudden they all feel equally important and I don't know which to do next. and they're all calling for me. And so the inability to prioritize information shows up a lot of the time in just a sense of overwhelm, a sense of of, you know, I don't know where to start, so I'm not going to start at all. and you know, it's really needing to get very, very specific about like what's next, what's next, what's next. And for somebody that listening who doesn't have ADHD, they might be like, well do the thing justust do it. And oftentimes with with executive functioning deficits, it's really like it's it's a Herculean effort to do one thing after the other Yeah, and I can see that as you mentioned seeing everything at once. It's like there is a beautiful superpower in that and I am also simultaneously extremely overwhelmed with that notion as well. So I'm curious for you, after you were diagnosed, I mean, how did you go about the researching piece of it, the understanding of what it actually was. And then you talked about kind of building in systems for support So what did that process look like after your diagnosis Well, I think my experience is probably very common to a lot of women's experience, which was came this fascinating know explaining who I was. And so focus is actually quite easy. We call it hyperfocus or you know, some people call it like being in the flow. Hyperfocus is quite easy when something is really, really fascinating and interesting to us because we're driven by dopamine. and ADHD at its core is the neurobiology of like a dopamine deficiency. so we always kind of going for More and more dopamine to help us function. And when there's something with a lot of dopamine and like something that's fascinating to us, we can focus for hours. you know, It's why a lot of kids are like really into video games. know, because it's something you know, and why oftentimes attention deficit feels like a terrible name for ADHD because I don' know, when I'm interested in something, I don't have a deficit of attention. I have the opposite. And so a lot of us talk about like the dysregulation of attention. So if something's really, really fascinating You make it your life's work, which is what I did with ADHD and neurodivergence and especially the intersection of ADHD and women's experience U However, if something loses its interest and becomes solely important, that's when it becomes that Herculean task. And so that will be you know, doing dishes even though you know that they're gonna go back in the cabinet and then they're going to come out again and then they're gonna to get dirty and then you have to wash them again, you know, like these sort of ongoing chores that have zero interest involved. And so we see that a lot, especially with domestic chores, washing dishes, folding laundry tidying, like a lot of these kind of domestic tasks that tend to often fall on women, that's where we really, really lose the plot where it becomes difficult to be, you know, to to just be interested in that. and again, a that comes with a lot of shame and a lot of like self reproach around this idea of like, well, I should be able to do this. Why am I not doing this? Like if I'm not doing this, it means I'm lazy. And so That was how I was mostly educated in ADHD. It started out as just being self interested. and the podcast really, really helped. And so it was really interesting to me when women started reaching out to me. listeners started reaching out to me, thanking me for the podcast because I was like, you're welcome. Like I sort felt like This was so selfish for me to be able to talk to other women and hear about their experiences. And then the guests were thanking me and saying like, I'm I really it was so cathartic to be able to share my story. and listeners were saying like, it's so I just feel so seen and I'm just nodding along and I'm crying and it's the whole thing just felt so emotional to realize like this is how we learn. Like don't give me a textbook.. That is not how I'm going to learn. But this notion of lived experience and sharing of ourselves, I think this I think you see it in a lot of women communities and throughout time, you know, this like red tent kind of way in which we talk about our lives and our experiences and that's how we learn and how we also, I think, learn to accept ourselves and each other that n you know, how many times as a mother was I on the internet being like, is green poop normal? You know, like we're always looking to see like are we Are we okay And we were just talking before this about passing two hundred episodes. So you've had a lot of women's stories on, which is so incredible. And I'm curious with that, what are the main themes and trends that you hear from these women over and over that has either helped them or that they deal with everyday life Yeah. o gosh. I mean, that was one of the things I did for my two hundredth episode was I looked back and kind of tried to pick out ten things that ten like trends I noticed in women that I had been interviewing because I did sort of realize over time over the years, I went from interviewing people to becoming an expert on this lived experience and looking at these interviews, not just as these fun conversations I was having, but as like data. you know, to really And I was interviewing women from around the world too and women of all different ages. And so it was really fascinating to me to see a lot of these similarities coming up. The first one, I think the main one was this notion before diagnosis of this question of what's wrong with me that seemed to lead a lot of us through life in terms of feeling different, feeling like an outsider, feeling like other people had the manual to life. And we missed that, you know and always kind of feeling like, why does everybody Why does this work for everybody? And like when my I was actually diagnosed before my kids, which is rare. I think a lot of women are diagnosed either, you know, while their kids are getting diagnosed and they look at that they look at the information and think, well, that sounds a lot like me, right? Or you know U maybe years after their kids were diagnosed and the information started to come out about what this looked like. But I think for like this notion of o, lost my train of thought there. whyy was I talking about kids again? Oh, what I was saying was when my dghter when my daughter was diagnosed I was explain, you know, I was likening it to like left handed scissors and because she was a left handed kid. And so I was like This is what it feels like to live with ADHD is everybody's cutting with scissors and they give you the scissors and you try to use them and you're like, why are they not working for me? Why Is everybody able to cut? and everybody's like, what, the scissors work. I just use them. you just have to cut. It's not hard. Look, I could do it. And you're like, why is this not working for me? And realizing you just needed the right scissors. And that was kind of the metaphor I used of what it feels like to go through life feeling like why are these systems? why are these things working for other people and not for me. and you know, so many of us end up with diagnosed with depression, because there is that question mark, there is that sense of what's wrong with me as opposed to recognizing like, oh, I know, I just need better scissors. And so then we get frustrated, which is like, why can't I do these things? Why is this so hard for me And so a lot of that what's wrong with me, question, ends up with this diagnosis of depression as opposed to really addressing some of the functional support needs that are needed. The other thing I think I've noticed a lot of and I'm doing a lot of research in now thankfully there is more research being done on women. is the intersection of that frustration and the depression. and the executive functioning deficits with our physical bodies. So there is a huge overlap between neurodivergence and ADHD and autoimmune disorders. And like what's that about? right? From migraines to endometriosis to fibromyalgia and a lot of like hidden physical pain that is manifesting in bodies because of stress and trauma. And I think you see that a lot in the neurodivergent communities because of this lifelong smallulti traumas constantly that are happening around like, why is this so hard for me and what is wrong with me? And then ending up as an adult especially as somebody who has been like a very, very high functioning overc compompensating adult woman, seeing it manifesting in mysterious hormonal and autoimmune disorder. ye. So that I find very, very fascinating because it was one of those things where I was just like, another guest with fibromyalgia, what is happening? You know and and starting to see these Ven diagrams and being like, okay, what is this connection? So I think that's a really, really exciting frontier in terms of how we are looking at the brain and body together right now and realizing that ADHD isn't just this kind of quirky memory thing Yeah, there's a lot more to it that's coming out. And then for you, what were some of the tools and systems that have worked for you or that you've put in place after your diagnosis that's helped? Or is it more just that knowing and understanding and being able to meet yourself where you are that's helped or a combination, like what does that look like today for you All of the above. ye. It really I think the biggest key to living a life where you thrive with ADHD is Just understanding what is happening and understanding that this isn't any sort of deficit, you know, that this isn't something broken within you that this is really just, you know, as as ADHD research Ned Hallaay called it he called, you know, having a, I think he says Ferrari engine with bicycle brakes. And, you know, just these ways in which you know waste a minute feeling guilt or shame about who you are from one moment to the next. L it really is about doing the best you can and finding what's going to help you. Knowing about your brain and how it works, I think is the key. There isn't, you know, some magical planner or some magical app that's gonna to make it all worth, you know, make your life turn around. Those are certainly helpful tools. But you know for me, I think mindset is the key to living well, which is Yeah I am a phenomenal human being and I am really, really smart. and I also forget a lot of things. And I hate doing e dishes. And you know, like all of these things that I used to feel a lot of shame about I'm like, It comes with the territory of being a quirky brilliant person. and so a lot of it was like reframing and having a mindset You know, and I think there's also like age too. like I'm at an age now. I'm almost fifty two. And so I feel like there's something very freeing about aging as a woman and not caring what people think about you so much on your person. So I'm grateful for that. you know, I'm grateful for entering into a phase where I care a lot less about whether people are judging me for who I am Um and You know, and then once you're coming from this mindset of like I'm a phenomenal hurt human being and I need a lot of help. Then you can look for like what's going to help me as opposed to I think a lot of people look at a diagnosis and think like, o, okay, now I know what's wrong with me. now I can figure out what's going to fix me. and I think that, you know When we come from that framework of like there's this fixable version of me, that's where I think we end up getting really, really frustrated when tools only work for a short period of time or if tools don't make everything better and, you know, and So I think, you know, really working on self acceptance is the biggest you know, and I used to always think about like what would a white man do? because they have self accept, you know,s they're born with self acceptance and oftentimes like I would think about like Bill Gates It be like, do you think Bill Gates spends any time thinking about like how upsetting it is that his house that he can't keep his house clean. No, he has cleaners. like he doesn't like, you know, he outsources that. And so again, it's like, you know, maybe you can't afford to have a cleaner, but it's still like Why would I feel bad about this? Like it's I'm, you know So like why should I care that I of course I don't like doing boring things? Why would I? And I'm also wondering in all your conversations and for you personally, what have you observed or seen on the take of medication for an assistance too? Like do you take medication for yourself? Did you explore it? Or you like, no, I have a deeper understanding and didn't need it as a tool All of the above That seems to be my answer. Yeah. So I mean, I was terrified to take medication in the beginning because it was it's called a stimulant and you know, there's all of this information out there about like, you know, college kids doing Ader all and you know, it it's a It's a controlled substance and it just felt really risky and I walked around, you know, I got I got the u prescription for Vivance, which was a methamphetamine, which or Not a methamphetamine. Oh gosh, what is it And now I can't even think of it without the word, but it's like not the bad amphetamine. But it has the word methamphetamine in the title, right? So I was like, o, this is terrible. what I be doing? You know when you go to the drugstore and they make you feel like you're a felon, even just picking it up because there's all of this stigma around it. I walked around with it in my purse for weeks before I finally got up the urge to take it And I was worried I was going to feel like I was, you know buzzing and on cocaine or something And the first time I took Vibance, it was like my brain was just so quiet and I had this amazingly productive day where I just was like one thing after the other, I'll do this and then I'll do this and then I'll do this. and then it was just like It was unbelievable. And you know, and oftentimes when people first start taking ADHD medication, the feeling is like, is this what everybody else is like? Like it really feels like, oh my goodness, I didn't spend a moment second guessing whether I should do this or feeling bad about not doing that. likeike it just The emotional side, the shame, the The like self flagellation, all of that was gone. and it felt them like the most amazing day of my life. As the days progressed, however, it started to like build up in my system and I started to get some side effects that were agitation, a little bit of like I don know I just felt a little like the stimulant part really kind of got to me. And that's where, you know you have to be really careful about like Okay, what dosage is the right dosage for me? It took me a while with my doctor to titrate correctly. And so it's not just a one and done. The nice thing about most stimulant medication is it's not like It's not like SSRIs where you have to like take a long time to get on it and see the results and then take a longer time to wean off of it. You can really tell like from day to day if it's working or if it's not. And so oftentimes I'm like, if it's working for you, use it Use it obviously as prescribed. But I at the end of the day, I kind of I kind of have like a dip my toe in, dip my toe out relationship with ADHD meds. There are some people who take it every day and it's life changing and I would love to know what that means. That was always a big question for me when I first started the podcast where I was like, people talk about it, likeike this amazing thing Um But I also feel like, you know, mindset and lifestyle support also work in a lot of amazing ways. And so it really is kind of finding what you're comfortable with and also what you remember to do. and you know Whatever works from day to day, I think is key too. that there isn't really going to be any kind of consistent fix for ADHD. It's really about going with the flow. Yeah. And what are some of those biggest lifestyle support things that you have in place or use right now I think the biggest lifestyle that I have is my Apple Watch timer because like I said, my timer goes off all day long from you know, I was just boiling a pot of water earlier and I had to you know, I will set a timer for five minutes after I set the coffee maker, you know, when I, you know set the coffee maker to go off I will wander off and forget I made it and then I'll come back half an hour later and it's cold. So like even just little things like that, I find incredibly helpful. You know, if I know I'm going to be Talking to somebody on a podcast. I will set my timer to immediately before that U And so it's just sort of keeps like this nice course correction throughout the day. I write everything down. I don't even pretend to think I'm going to remember things just come to accept the fact that it's a lot easier for me to like operate within my capacity if I if I get offload as much from my working memory as possible. And so I call it parking. So it's like I have, you know, one of the things with my watch, all weekend long, I will remind myself, you know Remind me to call the doctor at nine AM on Monday. Remind me to you know fill out that school form nine AM on Monday because for me, nine AM on Monday is like the first time I'm going to like want to deal with that So the funny thing is then on Monday at nine AM, I have all of these reminders pop up on my computer. And of course, I'm not going to do all of them at nine AM, but I always make sure it has a parking spot. So I'm like, will I do this now? No, I have a call. so I'm going to move this to Wednesday. You know and so I'm always information and then I don't have to hold on to it. And I think that that once you recognize how much brainpower and exhaustion is involved in holding on to things mentally. As soon as you can offload those and park them and some people like love sticky notes, like whatever works for you is great. but this notion of like you do not have to hold on to. fact hold on to things just know that they're taken care of. And so if I park something to Wednesday, I know I don't have to think about it again until Wednesday And it frees up that that mental bandwidth. So for me, parking is like the the number run hack. I mean there's a million of them, but yeah, for me, that's been a life a life changer That's a good one. I think for any mom or working mom, I mean that is I do not have ADHD and that is one of my best tips for trying to just stay centered, calm and in the moment and not feeling frazzled is everything has a home And I like your idea of, you know, parking it or having a place for it to go. And I think there's some, I'm blanking on the writer They would explain it as everything having an entry or a home. So it's like an email. Like either you respond to it and take action or like it has a home for follow up And so the more that, I mean, I don't have a brain as we get older. So like I also love writing things down or like putting things on the calendar and then it's like, okay, there does like I do not have to remember The list of twenty things that is actively happening this week to get done. Like that is literally, that's the twenty things with just the family that's outside of work that has to be done. And so there's no way my brain is going to remember it, but it needs a home and where is that whether it's the calendar, the phone checklist, or reminder, whatever it is, like have it somewhere else besides your brain. So I love that tip for literally everybody because there is just no way you want to have that mental tax happening at all times. You're pushing something else out from not being able to be present R absolutely all of that And I think it's like recognizing that there's a connection between holding all of that and feeling out of control and feeling physically just like frazzled all the time, right? And just being like, that's that That level of dysregulation for a long period of time is not healthy for anyone. So yeah, you know, whiteboards, keeping things kind of visual is also really helpful with working memory. And so you know one of the things before I was diagnosed with ADHD, like my husband is very tidy and I'm so grateful to have married a very tidy person. but I would have these like piles of what I would call organized chaos of like bills I have to deal with, papers I need to put away, right? Everything had a place It needed to be dealt with. and so I had to have it visually in front of me. And he would take these piles and shove them in a closet because he didn't want to see them understandably. But we would always have these fightes where I'm like, when something is put away and I don't see it anymore, it ceases to exist. And so it's like having that language to be able to explain yourself to your partner or to yourself, right and say like, this is why I do these things as opposed to, you know, him being like, o, Katie's so messy and she leaves stuff all over the place. and I'm just going to shove it in a closet at me being like, how dare you you've ruined everything. You know, we still have those moments, but, you know Being able to explain why we are the way that we are is so incredibly helpful Yes, and that's so funny because I am your husband in that situation. I have like the pile and I'm like, why can't we just put the pile in this thing so it's not as ugly? Because it'll be like forever. R it out. We have to deal with it. Like that's why it's there. So that's so or you know what we do now, which is we put the pile away and we're in the place like I call it purgatory because that's where the piles go. And then I have some and then I have Park a reminder, which is like when am I going to deal with purgatory? So I won't put it away until I've said like a time in my calendar for like Thursday at ten AM deal with purgatory right? Yeah. So it's like understand. And those are all of those different steps that I was talking about before with the Thanksgiving analogy, right? which is like every single one of these moments sort of needs a step which be can be tiring. Yes, yes And I also love this conversation because like I said, I don't have ADHD, but I have so many friends who do or kids And so I think learning more about how they operate in their go tos and why is just so helpful for me to be able to be a better friend U And so I'm curious, what advice would you have for someone like me To be a better friend if you had ADHD I think one of the things that I learned from a fellow ADHD coach who I interviewed for the podcast and this like I think about this phrase all the time, especially when it comes to children But I think it It could be applied to literally anyone, which is this notion that if they could, they would, right? Everybody is trying as hard as they can. And so and everybody wants to succeed. So if a child is not doing their homework, rather than saying A, they're just being so lazy and disorganized and they don't care and all they're doing is playing video games. Ugh. you know, what you know, I'm gonna to punish them or something, you know, or I'm gonna just write them off as being lazy. L really thinking about like, okay, what is this the barrier, right? They want to succeed. So if they are not doing that, what is standing in their way? And thinking about it in terms of like understanding that everybody has the desire succeed So if they are not succeeding, we have to figure out what is what help they need. And I think that's such a powerful reframe for all of us, especially with ourselves, right? whichich is like rather than saying like, I'm just lazy. And so you can also call it out in your friends too. L you know, oftentimes women with ADHD especially are like constantly apologizing for who they are. And so it can be really helpful to help them redirect and being like, I'm hearing a lot of shoulds in that sentence, right? but recognizing like, okay, like if you should be doing this, like and you're not, if we come from the place of understanding that you're a phenomenal human being and you are not doing this thing and you want to be doing this thing. then let's start getting curious about what you need as opposed to being like, yeah sucks, you know, And I think about that Brene Brown like empathy versus sympathy video Which is like, okay, well, have I been in this situation before? You know, you were like super empathizing with the whole calendar thing too, right? Which is like, yeah, there are some things that all of us struggle with. And you know, what are some of the solutions that work for me? But I think like that was such a huge turning point for me in how I looked at not only myself, but how I look at my kids And is this notion that we all want to succeed. And so if we're not What do we need to help us? Yes. And yeah, having kids, so then both your kids were diagnosed with ADHD Both of them. And it was really interesting because I have a girl and I have a boy. And when I was diagnosed, you know I really I struggled in school in the way that I either got an A or I got a D. but like I dropped out, you know, I had to do redo high school my senior year because I did really, really terribly because I lost interest and didn't want to graduate and I was off skipping school all the time. And then the same thing happened. I dropped out of university after my first year because I was partying I had to go back and then when I did go back, I dedicated my entire attention to doing well and I ended up on the Dan's list. So it was like these you know pendulums and I saw that in my son where, you know, he would be really, really interested in something he would do really, really well. But if he wasn't, he was just like noope U And so immediately when I was diagnosed, I saw my he was I was like, oh My son has ADHD for sure. and My daughter was very you know, not like me. she was good at everything and she was perfectionist and yes, her bedroom was a disaster, so let's keep that door shut, but like she did very, very well in school. And so I didn't think she had ADHD because I also kind of felt like, well, kids with ADHD don't always do well in school. and it wasn't until I did this started interviewing women in the podcast, especially women who were diagnosed in adulthood, just like seeing over and over and over and over the same personality att type of a girl who did really, really, really, really well and was driven by perfectionism and anxiety and then ended up kind of hitting this wall and crashing and burning. and Um and then getting the ADHD diagnosis. And my daughter like I remember her calling me from school. She was having a panic attack because she heard that she heard from her French teacher that she was getting a seventy five on her quarterly grade and she started crying and like could not stoped and I had to pick her up from school. and that was my react. I was like, this is not noral. I was like a seventy five, That's fine.. I would have been so happy with a seventy five and I was sort of like Oh. Okaykay, this is also what ADHD looks like, which is this, you know, kind of sense of control and the anxiety around that that I wouldn't have known that that was what ADHD looks like. unless I had interviewed all of these women who were much farther along in life where I was like, oh yeah, we need to get you diagnosed too. So yeah, very differentere presentations That's wild then to be on your own journey figuring stuff out and then also trying to be a good mom while figuring out your kids. So what other advice would you have for parents who are just having their kids be diagnosed and now we're trying to figure out how to had a parent Yeah, I mean, I think having open conversations and understanding like what, you know, coming at any parenting conversation with we're all doing the best we can. you know, I've often said that to my daughter when she was a teenager where I was like, she's nineteen now, so I guess she still is, but like You know, where I'd like, I've never had a sixteen year old daughter. don't doing right? So it's like we're doing this dance together and, you know you need? Like her room is a disaster. And so my husband would always be like, haveave you seen her bedroom? And I was like, No, I don't go in there. Why would I tou that? But thinking like Does she need to clean it? Do she want to clean it? If she wants to clean it, then let's help her and figure it out. But if she doesn't care and it's not doing a huge disservice, then we can have conversations about like, okay, why should she? you know? Why is it important? Maybe she'll understand that it's important and she'll want to do it. But like having those conversations around like what is your motivation and what support do you need as opposed to like, this is a disaster and I'm going to, you, take away your allowance u until you figure out how to suddenly do it because that's where I feel like Oftentimes the responsibility ends up just solely on the child to figure it out. and They're not capable of it, right? And so then that's where they start to feel bad about themselves. where they're like, gosh, why can't I figure this out? And my parents would be so much happier if I could. And you know, then it becomes like a shame issue. And I see that so much with adults you know who wished, you know, I think it changed how I parented my kids in terms of always thinking about like, oh, okay, like what What kind of help do we need? And how can we get that help for you? Yeah and really being like a supportive cheerleader as opposed to driving, you know, constantly driving the car. or a little bit of both, depending on their age too And then what about at school? Did you work with teachers for anything? Did you do anything on the school front? or were they kind of heading the right direction and just were good with their regular academic programs that were already set I wish I could say everything was like Hunky Dory. I waited until high school for both of my kids five hundred fours because I was worried that they would be Um stereotyped as as like bad kids or Um You know, that they might be like tracked with integrative classrooms. and both my kids are like high nineties kids. And I don't think a lot of school psychologists, I think things are changing, but you know the general sense of ADHD kids is that they don't do well And so I really wanted to wait until they were old enough to advocate for themselves in high school in order to get them a five hundred four. I am not saying that that is for everybody. If your kid is not a high nineties, you know, anxiety driven kid, absolutely. like have those conversations with your teachers about what help they need Um But for me personally, I waited until they were a little bit older to bring in the five hundred fours and have those conversations. I remember like when my daughter, I was getting the five hundred four for her, and I was this was right after the pandemic, so the kids were going back to school, but it was still just like very nerve wracking, you know, about Who had their mask on, who didn't? And there were so many rules and so many kids ended up really, really struggling with anxiety during that time And I remember talking to the school psychologist about the fact that like my kids are white knuckling it through the day. They are holding it together. and when they come home, they just fall apart because they're in a safe place. And so with my daughter, it was like she was like, everythingverything's fine. I'm going to my room slam. That was how she dealt with it. My son, he would burst into tears the minute he walked through the front door. he'd give me the download about everything that happened and who was being naughty and who was you know not wearing their mask properly and who was standing too close and all of these things. But you, as soon as they would get home, they would just like unload. And so oftentimes parents will see their kids like having anger issues as soon as they walk through the door. And the school psychologist would say, when I told her about the fact that they as soon as they got to a safe place, they would fall apart, she said, Well, that sounds like a home issue, not a school issue And that was such a like, right? That was such a like moment that has stayed with me in terms of the understanding of how many kids are just holding it together while they're at school until they fall apart at home. and how that's really about like finding safe spaces for them. It's not about like this is a home issue. This is this is like Are they okay? And how can we help them? So again, it's like really looking at kids their behaviors, especially if they have, you know anger issues and their slamming doors like, okay, let's take a moment and think about like what help they need right now Yeah Yeah, that is why luck y us, as moms, we get all the tantrums, the tears, the anger, the we are the safe place for them to unload all of their emotions. Yeah. And so I think even just reframing that can be helpful of like, why is my kids so happy and friendly with everybody else? but when they get home with me, they're awful They're a tyrant, you're like, well, it's 'cause this is the only place they feel safe to do that. You're their favorite person. right Yes. Yeah Well, before we go, one other question I just had was what other misconceptions or the biggest misconceptions that you hear out there about ADHD Oh my goodness. Well, I think the biggest misconception is the inability to focus, which as hopefully I've explained, like there are times where you can and there are times where you can't. And so it's really a dysregulation of focus and attention. I think, you know, this notion that people with ADHD, especially kids with ADHD are rude, that they don't care, you know, that they're bad friends if they interrupt you or that they, you know They forget your birthdays, you know, like a lot of this has to do with A lot of the like socially acceptable norms that are relational in terms of friendships are actually really difficult for kids who are neurodivergent. And so I think Um The misconception that people with ADHD don't care about other people is one of the most hurtful ones because I think people with ADHD are trying harder than anyone around them often. And it's backfiring because they're trying to use the wrong scissors. And you know, if we can just help them out and just be like, you know what? you don't have to remember birthdays, just have an annual reminder that points it out to you, right? You know, those kinds of things where we can remove a lot of that like We can put it on autopilot. Jessica McCabe is always talking about like ways that we can she does the How to eightyHD YouTube channel. Shes talks about how we can autopilot things But it is unfortunate. I think a lot of the time people with ADHD are kind of looked at as Just like very flaky rude people. and couldn' be it couldn't be more different which is think we are flaky. I don't know. But is that so bad? I don't know. No. And which is why I appreciate you so much for coming on and talking more about your story because I've learned so much And I think that it's increasing in awareness, but we still have a ways to go. So being able to hear your story is amazing. And if people want to listen into your podcast and learn more about you, where can they go? Yeah, well, from the podcast came the overarching umbrella of women and ADHD. So women andadDhD. com has now become like an education hub. I've been coaching for ten years. so I coach women with ADHD and I have a team of of certified ADHD coaches that you can find at the website. to work with you individually or in small groups. There is the podcast, which is also called Women and ADHD. And we have tons of free downloads at womenandadHD. com. We have recommended self assessments. If you're looking for like maybe what are some of the best tests that out there that are specifically for women We recommend those, we have recommended readings It's just sort of a good place to start on your journey if you're starting to ask yourself those questions, likeike, huh, maybe this is maybe this explains a lot about me And we'll put all of those in the show notes for everybody to easily access. And Katie, thank you again so much for coming on. This was awesome. Oh My pleasure. Thankks for having me Thanks for listening to another episode of Find Your Fuel. If you enjoyed the show and want to support us, please leave a comment or review. And before we go, I have to give you the obligatory medical and legal disclaimer. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. The advice and recommendations we discuss are not intended as medical advice and do not replace the treatment or care of a physician or any other primary healthcare provider