The Reality of Performing Eight Shows

There was this strange thing that he, I think started to make an assumption that Dana might be gay.. You know, the straight guy and D is come on. and occasionally, for comedic purposes is a little flamboyant. And so decided that David might be gay. And David at one point in frustration said to me, whyy don't you tell him you're gay? And Why should I break, you know, America's sweetheart's heart? And he appared to us and said very quietly This is gonna be the biggest show in the history of television. put he tales hu What is he? He'll be lucky if they don't cancel this in the middle of filming this pilot. If you hear someone playing angry birds in the audience, that might that be you? I'm like I didn't know so totally off Nathan Lane Arguably the greatest performer of his generation on Broadway and's done a lot of movies And it was really fun for me because we had worked together on a reallyally interesting situation comedy first time in like early eighties together with Mickey Rooney. So we reminisce about that. Yeah. So I won't give anything away But we both had very identical memories and it's a really good ride. Yeah, For me, hearing about you talk about that old show with Mickey Roet. on this show and then hearing him the only other guy that was a witness to all of it and everything synced up exactly what you said was funny. I thought he was very sharp. I thought he, I don't know Maybe at all, but This is funny, super loose told Tight, concise, funny stories and was a good laugher me up And, you know, he was we talked about mouse I keep calling it mouse trap. It's mouse hunt and some of his old movies that we all like and He was in the bird cage. He was in like a ton of these. Yeah. and he has some great funny old stories and so It was just a it was just it was a really good time and I think people really laugh along with him Here's Nathan Lane. Nathan Lane Oh my God. No Wow. Is that a real mustache? because it looks great. Oh, well yes, yes it is. I'm old enough how I can grow a real mustache. can. the other boys. You weren't down that wayay in nineteen seventy one when we did that sitcom nineteen seventy what? I don't know. What's so long ago? It doesn't matter. Well, it's been a minute. Hi. How are you? N, I'm David Sp. Danid he knows you Congratulations on your wildly successful podcast. Thank you, B. Thanks for doing it. That's a relative term, but thank you. There's three million. I know. Yes, everyone in America has one, but yours is doing very, very well Thank you.'ve checked you've checked the metrics. I like it. The metrics are I always look at. Ive seen the numbers on deeath of a salesman and you guys are It's quite astounding to all of us. Dath of a fucking salesman H SRO at the Winter Garden Theater. I never would have guessed that, but Ggy. Gragedy is big right now No tragy Welladness is all the rage. I think I heard you to say this, but it's so modern. I mean, there's never more comparent despair in the history of the world or feeling bad about yourself because wealth is flying on and on. Right? I mean, it's Well, yeah. I mean, I I haven't seen it, but many people who come back I do say that that this particular production feels it feels like they've never seen it before and it feels so fresh That's all attributable to Joe Mantello, the director And they got Nathan Lane, you know, Nan L I'm doing my best. Yes. it's a great look, it's a great group of actors and its it's something I've wanted to do for a very long time. and and Honestly, you know, when they announced this, the reaction was sort of Why are they doing that again? And why on eararth are they doing it at the winter garden, this huge theater where' casted Mama Mia How many does how many does it hold I think sixteen hundred F hundred sixteen hundred Um And then so when it was suggested because we were supposed to do it in the fall U and Scott Ruden S Scott Ruden, S Scott Ruden I think I can get a theater for this spring, wouldould you be able to do it? And I said, Yeah, which theater? And he said, The winter garden. And I said, Oh, are we doing the musical version ' that's a really, really big house and I'm a little nervous about, you know, filling that theater. I'm not going Mooney So it a to be You know, we went I went with the director and just stood on the stage and I thought, oh, I It's not as huge as I remembered. and And then it was just about, I think both Joe Mantello and Ruden felt that because of the scale of this production and the set that it would fit there. And then the thing I didn't realizes U The sound design. whichich was, you know, when they they said because of the size of the theater, you will have to wear microphones. and And I said, Okay. so If I That means if I speak very quietly, I can still be heard. Thanks to you. and he said, Yeahah. And it and I think that is the element that that created the intimacy I feared would be lost and and so it's cinematic in a way. And there's something about taking it out of the what what the template for the The design of the show was always this a skeletal house and these fors And just taking all of that away, it kind of turns it into Greek tragedy and you see it you see it in a fresh way and you hear things you may be You used to use the old set of My three sons And then remember that show . I was going to ask you about standing on the shoulders of giants. like how many Rles of you felt intimidated by the previous people and inhabited this character. Like you had to follow Zero Mustell and the purers and you know, what's your how do how do you get past that? Well it's something you're not unaware of, but you know, ultimately you have to let go of those things, the ghosts that haunt some of the ye Zero Mastel as an example. Yeah. I mean, you know, you can't do do him. you have to do you. It's it's too can. Although in the producers, you know, you have to kind of live up to a certain size because he was Oper end. Even on film and yet it was also, you believed it. it felt truthful even though had enormous performance. Yeah. And you had to pay homage to that to him and to Gene Wilder in those roles. And certain things that you can only, you know, you can only scream I want that money.. Nathan, is it unusual if I'm naive to say Yeah an average theater I always think of you as naive. I'm so naive and adorable, but I'm so innocent, but yeah An average play Is it a hundred seeds? Is it four hundred? Is it Well, it depends if you're off Broadway onroad off Broadway, there' smoke houses, they're not usually not bigger than four or five hundred. Okay. And is no one miced up usually ever and this is a rare. Well you know, it's you were I mean at there was a certain point where it started to happen. you know, in the days of Ethel Merman, she didn't need a microphone. Right fucking loud Right. at a certain point they they they although even in her day, there would be I think, like floor mics to sort of help. Okay. It was really thought of for musicals and then I think at a certain point people didn't know how to. project or be able to speak he quietly and still be heard in a big house. And so now everybody wears mics. and Laurie Met Calf and I are very old school. so when they said we were going to have to wear mics, we were We were a little thrown, but you know, it has turned out to work to our advantage and able to be that intimate on stage' Yeah not have to project it. yeah And then if you get infiltrated by movie and TV stars that come in and try to do a play, they don't understand anything. And now have to pret that. I don't want to I don't want to beat up on that. I do Yeah like you you have a history. Yeah the Hollywood minute. Let's do it. Let's h ity Murphy. Yeah the old nation, very soource sub.. It's still trifling around and it's finally I thought you would both move past that. Yeah. We're such They hugged it out Yeah, We were in eater tootter yesterday Yeah, No, he's great. I saw him at the fiftieth. I'll see him at the sixteth and the seventieth, of best in know. And I saw at the fiftieth. I didn't see was Dana Car. That's right. I know. I got the date wrong. Ges crazy. G the dateong. I went there the next week and you just missed it Dana maybe just go stand on A. It's like a really, really good show. Do you I don't know where we want to go here, but I there's just about being in place is fascinating to me and the sheer volume of them This is the te and I used I didn't get plays till later and I saw I know. You did tell me how much you hated theater I hate it. And I think I grabbed you by the scruff of your neck when I said that to you. was a little violence involved But we were driving in your car. This is the memory I have. and it on theater came up because I've spent a lot of time in it C you say I don't know, I just hate theater And I I'm sorry. Did I know you were in theater at that point? It seems a little rude.ember Th I remember then we go back further. I remember running into you now after you had become You know, a big star on S andL and spending Right at as good as it eats or all in eats. Yeah. and you were sitting in the corner. Yeah I congratulated you on all of this ser. I said I hate theater. And then you look at me you said, Are you still doing plays? No, I love it. I a Hollywood minute. Listen to this guy I was, you know, running running scams or so Yeah. I've become so much nicer H running scams? Well, it's the irony is that when we would do the show with Mickey Rooney, he was right like He would introduce us after doing ten minutes on hating senior citizens, we should be called more experienced people And then he got you right because he introduced you as a generational talent And then he'd say and Dana Garney, you know, and I'd go out. I got it. But But he was right about that and the one thing about that experience we had. It feels like a Broadway show. It literally has all the elements. It leans into deeath of a sell. I mean, sometimes I think it was a fever dream. It the only person who experienced some of that thing that stuff that' still with us. Was it as crazy as I or as wonderful or what was it? Well, it was well I would say You know, it started as this it was sal Turtle Tub and Bernie know created this show for Jack Albertson who in a brilliant career move died and couldn't do the show. smart And they then thought, why not Mickey Rooney, who was having a Rennaaissance? Sugar babies on Broadway? he was Yeah and so, you know, he had been in the show business wilderness for many years doing doing dinner theater drinking too much and then had this, you know, big, big revival in his career And so he thought in his spare time while he was doing eight shows a week of sugar bavies. during the day, I'll do a situation comedy So we were pulled into that and You know, I think he never he didn't get how brilliantly funny you were. He was more drawn to me because I seemed more old school to him And then there was this strange thing that he, I think started to make an assumption that Dana might be gay. Yeah. be You know the straight guy and D was come on and occasionally for comedic purposes is a little flamboyant. And so ided David might be g. And Datid at one point in frustration said to me, whyy don't you tell him you're gay? Why should I break, you know, America's sweetheart's heart? Yeah by telling that one This is going go no further than thirteen episodes. Do you remember this moment though that regards this that he put his arm around you He looked at me and he said, quote I'm just glad we like girls Direct quote. That's what led to that discussion. Yeah. I was too you know, it was so strange. It's Th' company. It's death of a salesmanrow. You rembember they did what was a what they referred to as a kind of chemistry pilot, a fifteen minute pilot you shot. And we were sitting in a gream room with him And you know, we had rehearsed and it was not it was it was what it was. writing terrible. ye. And we, you know, I was just glad to be making a little bit of money. And we sat in this room with him and he seemed very calm. We hadn't seen this kind of crazy side right? And then at one point He turned to the two of us. We were supposed toit together opposite him, and he turnred to us and said very quietly This is going to be the biggest show in the history of television. That what hes us What is He'll be lucky if they don't cancel this in the middle of filming this fucking pilot. We didn't say anything And he went on from there and said We're to save money and stuff. Oh yeah. And we're gonna make so much money from this you know, lunchboxes and t shirts. and he went on and on and during our hiatus, we'll do a stage version of the TV show and make even more money and it start to build and build and it crescended with, I'll never forget this He said, I and Tina Turner made a zillion dollars last year but Judy Garland died up pauper And then there was a knock at the door and a first AD came in and said, We'll be read for you in a few minutes. And he said, Ohs very much. And nothing had happened and he hadn't just done a you know, mussolini balcy This the two of us. I some how this is He did it every day. He had different entry points. You're walking down the hallway in the morning to rese or whatever. Judy Garland never owned a car. You know what? Blob Gable only had one testicle. didid you know No, Mickey, I didn't. He just put his hands and feet inan Glman's Chinese. Oh show ye. How long has Robert Redford been in the business He' been in the business sixty two years. It was like three months short of his actual age. You It was a severe case of arrested development. You know, he went through, you know, there was that period of nineteen thirty nine to nineteen forty one. was He was the biggest star in, not the biggest star in Hollywood Fourth of July savings are happening now at the Home Depot with select appliances starting at three hundred and ninety eight dollars Plus, get free delivery on appliance purches of three hundred and ninety eight dollars or more, no membership required. Upgrade your kitchen with a modern and sleek GE profile refrigerator featuring hands free autofill for the perfect pour every time. And make laundry day easier with two in one washer dryer combo innovation that completes laundry in about ninety minutes Shop topop brand appliances now at the Home Depot. offer about june seventeenth to Julyet at U Nly store online for details Take your flexibility beyond the mat PayPal Pay nothing at checkout. Then enjoy a flexible monthly payment plan that works for you. with no sign up or late fees. Find yours then, and an easy way to pay. With PayPal. Download the PayPal app to get started. Subject to approval. pay mononthly consonsumer loans made by Webank. available through PayPaling N ML nine one zero four fivety seven. Lear more at payPal d. com slash pay mononthly. And do you remember how he announced that? Do you know the whole drill of how he announced he was biggest star in the world? withith the little effects and things. G ahead, let Zoom. Yeah, I was the number one star in the world. Hear me Thang H So it wasn't a fever dream. He did that. He did pull out a big wat of cash and say, think I can afford lunch. Told people this story. I'm so glad to get ca stories. There's one I hesitate to tell because it's right. But I think I know what it is. goo ahead. The one I do remember is he had a stand in, this fellow who' been with him a long time and hey was sitting on a couch and saying, pull my legs. pull my legs. He was having some back pain and even though he stand in and not a physical therapist said, Okaykay, pulling on his legs. And then as his Mickey's assistant was walking by And he looked at him and said, Forget it, Mic, you're never going to be tall Yes, I Then there was this day, let's see if I could do it. clean this up This one day, we were sitting on the set. and I was sitting on the couch and he was walking around and he saw on a table there was a TV guide and on the cover was the lovely Barbara Mandrell who is very popular The Mandrell sisters and she ke become very successful on her own and she was on the cover of TV Y You know, a very attractive. Yeah And Mickey looked at this cover and he picked it up and it was just the two of us And he showed it to me And he said S of manan drown. yes, yes, it is He said, love I love Barbara Mandrell. then he started getting very like a Mx voice. I love Barbara Mandrell Oh God, I lovear I' God, I'd like to fuck Barbara Mantreel. My God, I wantan to fuck Barba Mantreel. I want to fuck Barba. He went on and on. I incantation that might make Barbara Mandrell appear before him like And then Finally, it culminated in I want to fucker. I want to fucker He said it very loudly up the brown. He said. stick stick it in her brown, I think Really? Well, what about this? We wanted it inner brown. he said, You know what I mean? And I said, Unfortunately, Mickey, I do. neverever heard anal sex referred to in such a childlike and primitive way. And I hope never to hear it again our apologies to Bara Manrell I'm sorry. if she's here all listeners. My parents called me that night and said, how's Mickey Rooney I didn't know what to say. but you had a very healthy libido. There you go. I think he cleaned it up for you because you guys were younger, so he didn't want to Well, you know, he was also a born again Christian Not going be anything wrong with that. B. I remember him telling us about how that he became a born again Christian because An angel had appeared to him. He was in a restaurant and he appeared to him. He was a waiter, but he had long blonde hair and he told him that he hoped he would find the Lord and work with him and I guess told him the specials I veryer much a believer that experience Remember all of his ideas like Mickey Rooney's, whatever Burger. Every day had a big idea go off. He would John Guare, here's two things I don't know if you're aware of. Norman Lear in an interview said that he had offered Mickey Rooney the role of Archie Bunk And he he turned it down, but he did do one of the boys And then John Gare, the playwright, John Gare told me, when he wrote House of Blue Leaves, they had offered it to Mickey Rooney and he met with him in a hotel room And when John said, I came in the hotel room and he started doing like the opening monologue from the play. And he thought, wow, o, I guess he's going to do it. He loves it so much. He's already learned And so He then finished and he said, Wow, Mickey, that's incredible that you know all that. And he said, I love your play, but I can't do it. I'm about to start a chain restaurant called Micaking Ron's, horned beef and brew And get this, we're going hire little people to be the waiters, but they'll be dressed as leprechauns. and when they pay the bill, it'll be in a little pot of gold. It hear me that plays Toraluralura. Anyway, Yeah, he always had those businesses in mind. One of the craziest ones that I don't remember the exact wording, but I'm gonna do a comedy. see? Everyone's name is gonna be a swear word So we're all sitting around what? Yeah, hello, mrter Fuck How are you, Miss S. No every character's name, you hear me? Bang. swear word. You remember that, right? Phllis? No, I heard it was he wanted it. One was to be called Filth and Dirt. And it was Donald Derk would marry D Well, why should I marry you? You've been so three years. I don't know if that has a hundred episodes Are we are we all headed for a lawsuit now because we? No, not at all. There is one very odd thing that I never really figured out. So We filmed the eight episodes or what. I guess we weren't canceing. we did thirteen of them Okay. So it hadn't been canceled yet. And they ask you from New York. I was in L.A to go to Whitefish, Montana. That's right to promote the show and we ended up on a float. fiveive degrees with horses and it said one of the boys that show had not even aired. And we're waving, right What's pleing? Well how did that promote the show? first of all? I don't know. mayaybe there was an affiliate there They were really counting on. I have no idea. but I do remember yes, we went to Whitefish, Montana. What network was this Jed down? FC. Was it Tardakov back then That's a good question. I don't think it could have been. he's too smart for this. We were just with some of the local people. One thing I remember we're just at some little, I guess a cocktail here butre welcoming us And this guy, this guy has a boob in his hand like a plastic boob and he was going around to the women and they were screaming and scaring. Did I remember that one correctly I don't think that happened You had one gackerary too many. Yeahory suddenly that story sounds crazy compared to all the other ones. They're like, that could never happen. f boom and waves it around after Micy. I'd say it was whitefish, Montana Yeah ye. there weren't a lot of women there. They just had Well they tried to be on the snowmobile. Remember they they said to you and I, who wants to take a ride on the snowmobile? and the lake was frozen over. and I think you smart said, I don't think so. And then the guy tried to break. He went off trails. It was just like he wanted me to kind of say, no, I want to get off. It was the weird And then he went across the lake to you guys he hit he was over seventy miles an hour Wow. Yeah. It was kind of a macho test of something. Yes. You wrong. Nathan was on the beach with my ti something. Dana, that's the kind of thing where you say no and then you're scared your agentss gonna hear. I heard you were difficult promo. you know No, because I didn't want to get on a snowbile and go drown in the lake.. It was it was really cool. The one of the things that was very cool is youd take me to piano bars where you would eventually sing and I you know, I was from the suburbs. I didn't know piano bars in New York And we'd see all these incredible singers and then you would go up and steal the show. little o me. Whoops I do remember you and I'm coming to seeing you do stand up and and then you were always You would joke about the fact that you did this bit, but it always killed, which was Old time cele stars, movie stars, having sex. Yes. and orgasming And you right You Jimmy Stewart having an orch Well, then I did a movie after this with Bertt Lancaster and Kirt Douglas. And then I learned to do them by hanging out with them and then I would make them into lovers. yeah C course What W it called Tough guysu? Was that it? Yeah, it was called Tough Gys. They Tough guys. There's a cult film that the right there. But what, you know, everything is surreal about that one too, just hanging out with Bertt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas. Right Talking imagine. Yeah. Yeah What's the weirdest thing if you think you're blink besides one of the boys, one of your weirdest gigs or thing you got into in your career, you went, this ain't, I don't know if this is gonna happen. I was offered This film called The Nut Cracker in three D, the untold story Oh being directed by this Russian director Andrey Konschilopsky, who had long wanted to do the nutcracker on fil I think you had done a film called was it runaway train that had been successful? Anyway Anyway, u I read it and it was the Nutcracker story and there's in the ballet, there's a character called Drosselmeyer. In this version, the character he's the character who brings the Nutcracker in the doll house That sets up the whole. But in this case, it was the character was Albert Einstein So he wanted me to play Albert Einstein. and there was there were there were musical numbers set to G tees with lyrics by Tim Bryice Okay I had done the Lion King Anyway, u I said no And I kept turning it down And then it was four weeks in Budapest and I And then finally, it was so much money. I said, well, I guess I'm going. Gota do it. that's that is a lot of money And and it was with Elle Fanning was just a child actor then. And even then you can tell, o, this is a gifted child. She's like Meryl Streep. She's so much than I am. and more, much more professional and Richard E Grant was in it, John Thurbe And it was it was a strange version of the nutcracker O instead of mice, they were rats Okay. Jon Guturo played the Rat King And he had these prosthetics, this sort of rat And he had an opening had a musical number in which he, you know, sang about what an evil guy he was. And at the end of it He had he had an electric harpoon and heed him with the CPI water tank with a shark in it And he harpooned this car an electr, you know, an electrroed partarty Number That's kind of the world I was in I was Albert Einstein and I had a song called Everything's Relative LK do a German accent Yah Yeah.. S. I I dack yob. Anyway, it was, you know, it was just the craziest thing I've ever been involved with. When does that come out Well you know, it didn they didn't release it for like two years and I thought Great. I you dodged it. Got the money One Christmas, they said we're opening it. I think it got like zero on Rin. You they have negative numbers on Rin Jamaica. Anyway for some reason it was like this is Nathan Lane's film. And it was They they always do that. a film by Nathan Lane. you know, this is don't blame me for this. Nathan Lane production You know, it was you thought, how did he get the financing You know, there was like a lot of Russian money. People in people in you know, black sedans would arrive at midnight with Okay. Yeah Yeah So That's a good story. Yeah I like that one. He used to talk to you during the take He would say be he would say I be, you know, I had a scene with with a little a nut crracker and I, you know, I had to head over and get it and give it to the jour. He would say now go over to the go to the piano, get the get the nut cracker No. I would say, you know, I can hear you And if I can hear you talking, the sound guy can hear it eventually, they'll hear this in multiplexes. Maybe you should talk to me during the t And you love that It what did he say? he's giving you notes We have come all that out. Yeah One thing just very real quick I want to put in with just I find very entertaining is you in the gilded age I always love I love the character Oh, yeah, what's his name? I don't know just a southern guy. you know, was a southern one old guy. now I can't think of his name. I. Let's call him Bill. Let' call Bill He was a real guy. He was sort of misses Aster's major and the gatekeeper to high society. And they literally made fun of his accent in the papers when he wrote this book, which they sort of wecovered in the show where he was ostracized for writing his book society as I have found it. And it was all about him traveling through Europe and learning, you know, about cuisine and wine and you know, especially European etiquette and throwing parties He cared all about that stuff and brought that to New York society and Yeah, it was, u he was u a strange little guy who, you know, yeah, it was it was u a fun role. It seems just fun to do that. It's coming back, right? That show. It was renewed for a fourth season. Yes. I did that asked me to do that kind of voice on an animated show with Tina Fe and I just I just kind of took it from Daniel Craig and kn I was whyes Yeah. Well, you's a little more cartoony literally. Yeah, yeah, he leans into it for. Nathan was the mouse hunt with was walking in that? Yes, he was. I fought to get him in it They didn't want to because he was too expensive. And I said, oh, but it was Gord Verbinsky's first film. And And I said, you know, you've got to get Christopher Walkin to play exterminator. I said, if I open the door and Christopher Walkin is standing there, that's a huge laugh It's a laugh. And And I said, give him some of what you're going to give me. Pay him out of that. I don't care. Just ask Christopher Walkin and they they finally worked it out. I mean he only had to work for like a week or something. And they paid him whatever his fee was and he was hilarious and brilliant I told A that he He worked me on something after that. we covered his fee And u There's some actors that you call to do something and they go They don't even need to reader it. They're like, here's the days. Tell me the days Please smash it into. And then here's the fee. So anyway, we all love walk and' a superstar. so And one I've told Dana this, but I don't really do a good walking in but in it's funny.s One of the breaks we're in a house, but we're coming out of the house And it's nights it wass dark in the house while we're all standing there And I don't know them well. We worked a few days And we're waiting for Action or like camera problem hold. So we're just in the dark And then he goes, David, you have to work with a active dog And I go an actor dog? Well there's one in this, actually, yeah I'm trying to think it like it's a normal conversation. I go, Yeahah, and he goes, they're good. they know they know things, you know And I go, Yeahah And then it's pauseed and he goes Hey, you ever work with an actor cat And I go, don't I don't think so. I don't do that many movies, but Yeah he goes They're not good. They don't They don't do anything, you know, like they the trainer yells at them and they don't do anything, but if they yell hard, jump but any cat does that And I go, Yeah, that's a good point, you know. And then I don't know if it's over yet, then he goes, David, you ever work with an actam mouse That's why I wantt know about mouseousetrap because I go, I don't even know what he's talking about. I go, Oh wait, mouseetrap or yeah, mouse h and he goes. Yeah he goes They're sm And I go, Oh, they are. And he goes, You tell it to go up and then keep running and they they do it. they know. And I go Well I don't I think they're animated, but what was he like on your showot? he was great. He was's great. Chris is so sweet and he's just, you know, he's in his own world and he but he plays it so, you know, because he's so serious,'s it's just wildly funny. Yeah ye ye. And No, he was I do remember the mice, they they some of those m those mice were literally fred and trained just for that No I love it. I love it. it's true. There was a mouse that was good at running or jumping It's unbelievable. Give me your fastest mouse for this. Yeah. And so when we had to be chasing, if it wasn't CGI, and it was a kind of primitive form of CGI back then there was also like a huge animatronic mouse that I think Stan Winston built that for like close ups and things But but they would have a guy. The trainer would be there with a hairdryer And so when it was ready to go Yes, turn on you can imagine being a mouse and this hu caption behind you blowing hot air at you off course you would run. Yeah, you get the fun. They would run, but that's smart. They would run the mice were very Sweet Was it really hard like W Matthie Broadderer? who was a n A wonderful British comedian named Lee Evans. Yeah. He might you might rememberri he was in a film, his first film in America was called Funny Bones This movie he did with Jerry Lewis, he's extraordinary in it. I know the name. So that's how we became friends was doing that film together. And then later I worked with him and when we opened the producers in London and he played Matthew's roll. He played Leo And he's just brilliant, brilliant. He sells out Weembley Stadium when he was doing No, we all. Um, but u I'd never been over there. but it's bre. If you're on Mouse hunt and is it and you're seeing all these the salesman there next season. I' go get here. I thought you going stop. You at the World Cup. It'say Stadium Museum I like so if there's real mths on mouse, there's probably a couple handful of pros Um Does it take extra long or did you get into that movie and you go, I don't know what this is going to be like or because it turned out to be a pretty big hit, I think It was the it was right after I had done the bird cage. Okay. And I thought perhaps You know,, because of the success of that, it might lead to other films And I was offered was not able to One was U mister MagGu And I met with the director and I said so med and it was greatreat deal of money And I said, Mr, So I said, am I in prosthetics with a bald head and I'm I can't see. And he said, No, we're not doing any of that. This is a whole new magu And I was like really, that's really all it is. He's a little old man who cans Yeah. Oh, I can remember Jim Bacus did, you know of course. Yeah, that whole thing. Walking into walls or talking to hat racks things creating havoc but a bit of a wispy premise anyway on the cartoon. We're not gonna to do any of that then I Well, then it's not Mr. Magu. I't something else, Pose guy. Yeah. It could be anything. So and the other film I was offered was Mouse Hunt. And they said the guy who's directing it He directed the Budwiser Frogs commercial. Yeah. And I said well, okay. not s Was it Joe Dante or some one of those commercial guys? No, it was Gore Vpinsky. Oh, I'm sorry, you said that. It was his first big film. was one of the earliest films for Dream Works And I met with him and he was, you know, he was really smart and a lovely guy. and You know, you talked about He would reference Roman Polansky's the tenant And I would say, yeah, that's a good movie, but you know, we're doing a mov where we're chasing a mouse for two hours. The Tom and Jerry cartoon with Laureln Hardy. Yeah as Tom. It like so ratitoo he could run. But it was a very dad That's a be very dark comedy we made. It was like Cohen brrothers film for children. it was but I had a great time doing it you know, and it was sort of the beginning of his film during Dana, have you ever caught yourself mid sentence and think, wow, maybe I S shouldn't have had that extra coffee this morning Yeah. You have I have too, or the time I realized my flossing game was more of an optional hobby than a routine habit. It's funny how little things in your mouth can make a big difference in how you feel about yourself And that's exactly why I love what Sile Generation does. They're a community of trusted dental professionals who help people understand the connection between oral health and overall health. becausecause what happens in your mouth doesn't just stay there. It affects your heart, your brain, and your overall wellbeing. Oral health issues have even been linked to long term conditions like heart disease, diabetes, and Alzheimer's. So Caring for your smile really is caring for your whole self. and there's a special confidence that comes from being proactive Regular exams and screenings can catch potential concerns early. sometimes Be you even notice symptoms. Yeah, to learn more about the connection between oral health and Overall health, visit smilegeneration d. com slash fly That's smile generation . com Sice fly to learn more about the mouth, body connection. and find a trusted provider near you Mit to the shot Tempo, hold your finish Golf is a mental game but you can't focus if you're not comfortable Blu Lemon golf gear frees your mind and your swing. withith fabrics that breathe, wick sweat and block UV Streamline cuts, clear distractions from your backswing and your follow through. So whether it's the first tee or the last hole, your mind stays where it matters. On your next great shot, dial in your game this summer with Lululemon Golf gear available in stores and at lululemon. com The new LinkedIn hiring pro can't undo your last hire, the No show. Who set you back because they didn't show up on day one, or day two, or ever again. And now your product launch is delayed because you're talking to alien abduction podcasters to track them down But LinkedIn Hiring Pro can help make sure your next hire six. In fact, businesses who use LinkedIn are twenty four percent less likely to reopen a role in the next twelve months. Hire write the first time with LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Post a free job today at LinkedIn dot com flashQality So only murders in the building. Didn't you get an award for that I did. I did after seven This is all your hardware. all your hardware. Oh my hardware, Jesus. someone slipped you down. No, I actually studied it and wrote it down. my Yeah, it's like a star Trek when they would announce you know William Shatner is on trial and they say this award, this award. you're like that Three Tony Awards, seven drama Desk Awards A Lawrence Olivier Award, three Emmy. Okay, we get it sccreen actorsay. I Yes. I had been nominated like seven times and then finally won for Oly Murders in the Bill. Yeah. Nice But it was weird because it was, u You know, this was in the comomedy category And that where most of these, I was nominated for drama for the goodood Wes ones, but this was all for com. And then it really wasn't a I mean, there was a little bit of humor, but my character was rather dark. guy And so surprising, but very Very nice. It's such it was a you know, there to work with Steve and Marty and Selena was fabulous That would be fun. I have a question about your early prayer Sure. It before O of the boys or Yeah a singing telegram performer. now right If you I have I know a joke about this, but you must know it because you're a seeinging telegram performer. but Early on, I heard a joke where the guy comes to the door and knox and the And the guysy or the woman says, oh It's a telegram? Is it a sing telegram? He says, No, it's It's just telegram and she said, Oh, could you sing it? I've never read a singing telegram. you know this And he go he goes, Oh, your sister Rose is dead. She died in bed. She was really great, but she was eighty eight. Oh, your sister Rose is dead. And she goes, thanks Yeah.. I had told that every day back then No. No No I did not tell that joke. No, it was really a secret singing audition for you. It was, you know, my years as a struggling New York actor, it was one of the many, you know jobs to survive and and They give you I remember they gave you like a very cheap, sad tuxedo and like a felt top hat, which I tried not to wear But you know, the thing about singing telegrams is nobody wants them Meed Business offices and people in the middle of their works or, you know, doing it, you know, accounting or whatever it is. this sad tupedo would show up yada, y And, you know, and so you rarely got a tip because they were just embarrassed And u I remember the One the one time I got a tip was from Sam Waterston was having a birthday party. and he You could I went in and I had to sing to Sam Waterterston and he was so kind then looked at me and could knew I was a struggling actor and he gave me a very big tip. And so I'll always remember how generous he was. That's nice. I do want to say one thing because when I said I hate plays, I've fallen in love with the theater as a sior person. Yes, I saw the ferryman U London. Yeah. And I want to ask you a question when you do so many shows The show I saw seemed extra extra in the pocket special connected with the audience, but I wasn't sure if this was like an extra just one of those nights where it all And the lead actor after they came out for all their bows, he turned around and he kind of in a happily way just leaped up in the air As he walked off You have a range of emotions when you come off and sometimes you leap up in the air. And how hot did you not with the same birbs you ever. You know, there I mean it that's very tr is that It's not every night is magical Some nights it's more technical you know you there like in this particular play, death of a salesman, it is extraordinary. It's a kind of silence that you only hear in the theater where people are so riveted to what's going on the story, the characters and their dilemmas A You know, you can tell if, you know, is suddenly if there's phones going off or you hear talk back to you like it's a television screen or Yeah But those nights when you do connect and that's what it is. I mean, that's it's the last bastion of the human connection in telling a story is that you're there and we're there doing it for you. And what it does, when you do connect, it is it is very fulfilling and rewarding and you do feel, oh, something special happened tonight And people are are You start crying, right? At the end of super emotional Oh death of a salesman Well, it is very ye Yeah, it's very. It's big huge confrontation at the end with my son, played by this brilliant actor, Chris Abbott. and it's very, very important. It's intensely sad. Just reading about it today where the son says You know, we're kind of regular we're mediocre people. We're not going to go anywhere. I mean there's there's so many themes in this thing that's that are anch Well, yeah, it's still as sadly relevant as it was in nineteen forty nine you know, it's O more so. The one thing I do think about theater when I think about AI and digital actors and digital everything The last thing don't get is robots doing live theater. That's true Then they could do twelve shows a week. Yeah ten thousand Nathan Lane robots and go global. Yeah Telve shows a day. Yeah. I will walk through it. Sure. someomeone is thinking about it. Do you go crazy with repetitioners or some you bother you and some do. sometometimes it's actually work Oh Yes. you, you know, I don't think people were meant to do like For example, this play eight times a week, it's you know, the history of this play, you know, Lee J Cobb who originated this role forty nine He lost his voice after three months and he wanted out. He wanted a two week vacation. And they said, you can't leave, we're a big hit But he got he left to play as soon as possible. U Dustin Hoffman started off in his revival doing eight a week and then reduced it to six. Dany, who' a good friend of mine who he was hospitalized for exhaustion when he was doing eight a week and they reduced it to seven. It's just It's a really difficult thing to go through to put your mind and body through that many times a week. It's all based on, you know, years ago, some producers said, we'll do eight. We'll do eight a week. on Wednesday and Saturday Boy, will' really dash it And and, you know, some plays, this one in particular is it's a reallyional for you too. I mean, you can't just walk through it. You get into it. I'm sure everyone No, I get, you know you get depressed. I mean, we're all the The four Lomans in this production, at Laurie Metcalf, Chris Abbott and ours. we gather in my dressing room for sort of a ritual and we just talk about what's going on. All four of us are like, I would pay any amount of money to not have to go through this tonight. It's like going to be sad. Let's go be sad Yeah,ary What what's more exhausting when you're because I thought it was interesting when you guys were doing the producers you and Matthew and you had some Magaz or you New York Times or something. and all you guys talked about was this. It wasn't about it was just about physically trying to survive it So are you more exhausted with the emotionality of death of a salesman? or were yall a lota you know which are they exhausted? Well musicals as I've always said are a young man's game, but it was we were here's what I my mistake with the producers was that I didn't protect myself. I I wasn't safe about my voice I was trying to live up to zero mustel. So I'm yelling and screaming and carrying on and singing and dancing and doing big comedy. And then after about six or seven months, my voice was shot and I really had to, you know deal with that and and And so you know, on something now at this stage of my life You know, I don't do anything. You know, I just I go and I do the show and then I come home. and go to sleep. There's no going out rain.. in the old days you go out with friends for drinksardies. There maybe Sties. Like I don't know. I hearing David quietly say things, but That's the whole podcast. That's all I do. start Especially when I know nothing. I'm like play. Oh my God know nothing. Look, it's just it's a rigorous schedule, whether it's a musical or at a very emotional We just stand upp, it's to say. I mean, doing an hour hour and ten and It's not the same because you're doing a lot more and Well, and I've had practice doing, I mean, I've done Angels in America, which is two plays. That's seven and a half hours. I've done Ice Man Cometh You know five hours. So this at three is a breeze And comparative That's a chunk. it it does and it does there's wear and tear on the psyche with you're You know, you have to kind of stay in this mindset And it's it's it's difficult. it is difficult. I mean, it's but The other side of this and nobody wants to hear actors complain about being in a hit It's the other side of it is when people come back and literally are weeping or fall into your arms weeping or just saying it's the best version of this I've ever seen. and you see, you can hear them. you hear them, you hear them the silence and then you hear people weeping. out there and it's it's you feel like I've done something meaningful, you know, for for folks and it's cathartic for them And on some level, it's cathartic, but you know, I you do start to look to the closing date and think how many more Yeah As much as I love the play and I do love the play. It's it is it is and it's a real test, but Do you follow do Like you're so successful. You're not exactly Willy Loman, but you must have had periods in your life that you draw on or something, right to build the character inhabit it yourself Well,'s it's a guy whose whole idea of success and his self worth is built on the opinion of others whichich is a recipe for disaster. Never could. But it's a lot of people. certainly as an actor, as a comedian, we all know that, you know, we have that, we deal with that, the opinion of others And he's everything for him is about being well liked And all you have to do is go on Facebook to see how many people are looking for likes. Right. So it's his misguided view of the American dream, which he firmly believes and drills into his two boys. Um, it's You know, it's kind of's he's a mass of contradictions and insecurities And and yet He's optimistic Even though he's suicidal and depressed, he still thinks he's going to win, which is what drives the play and this character. And I think is what makes him interesting and and why people empathize with him ultimately even though he's he's not the finest as his wife says in the play. He's not the finest character that ever lived, but he's a human being And something terrible is happening to him And so you You certainly call upon Well, I, you know, it's those, you know, process talking about process' it's just horrifying to me. it's personal You know, you certainly draw on things from your own life and to things that are either emotionally triggering or things you've been through where that are You know, you whenever you begin, you look at how am I like this man and how am I not like him? And how do I find those things And again, people don't want us feel sorry for us, but show businesses kind of in general I call it an emotionally violent sport e extxtreme emotional. Yeah. Yeah. if you're in this shit boox film and then you're just publicly humiliated, most people don't have to, you know. And so Um, yeah, I wouldn't be that big of a leap to, but u When when is it ending? Well I want to I want to I want to put on my calendar when you get a rest Yeah, you know, it's it is like when you have a day off it's like, oh, this is nice. This is I don't have to think about getting in that car and suicide today. Yeah, it's it's it's you look, these are the these are the actor issues. These are amongst oursel. Oh yeah, we don't need specifics just you you know we're not going to air that. I'm also incredibly grateful. You know, grateful that this, which took a very this has been in the works for a very long time and that it finally happened. It's that it happened is a miracle. and the fact that it's so successful is beyond what I ever dreamed of. and so I'm You know, I feel all of that as well, but it, you know, I'm seventy. So there is there are days when you think, Oh, how many more do I have to do? But each one, you can only think the the way out of that is I can only think about the show I'm about to do If you start to think about We got two tomorrow. you'. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And I assume that when you're in the moment, like in the other thing with Laorie or what whoever, you might in a moment surprise yourself a little bit with the way you deliver a line and then they'll sort of surprise you. justust these nuances. I assume also keep it alive Yeah, with these these are people all at the top of their game. And so with Laurie, it's all I mean, we've known each other for forty years. So I she always it always to me, it it's like it seems like she's making it up sometimes. She's just so spontaneous and real and it's yes, that does happen and the play takes you places you don't expect to go. and you think, wow, where did that come from? There was one day in the last couple of weeks where I was, you know, where you're really in it, you know, and you just, you know, it you lose yourself in it Because it's so powerful and the, you know, the words are just, you know, these these there are scenes in this that I wanted to do my whole life And so It's I mean, I saw it when I was ten years old, there was a CBS special presentation of the play. So nineteen sixty six and it was Lee J. Cobb and Mildred Dunock, the original stars doing it. And I remember then being affected by and even at ten, I was upset with this salesman. Sure. And then a year later, my father, my own father essentially committed suicide. He drank himself to death He sort of announced that he was going to do that and then he did And I always kind of connected it to Willie Lowan to this, you know, as this this man who kills himself. and he willie kills himself Um Because he wants to leave something to his son, this twenty thousand dollars insurance policy And it's the one thing he can give him And it's what allows him to finally go through with suicide al The feel good comedy of Ye says the New York Bost That's the thing about this play and I remember Denny he once said to me, you know, it's not a funny play. And I like big shoes Bath in the title. There is there is humor in this play and Miller actually wrote about it and said how important he thought it was because he said people don't know think about that because it ends so tragically, but it's very deliberate. There is humor in this play. And when he wrote it, he would laugh at the things that Willie would say, his exaggerations and contradictions And and certainly Laorie has found humor. And I knew she would it would not be a sentimental performance, but she has found the humor in Linda Loman It helps to keep it moving al. And it draws inim, you know. Just real quick, you hosted SNL in ' ninety seven if you want to touch on that, will you go back or I was the the one timer. Yes, I Gl' cllub I don't think you got a jacket for that. You get a sweater vest for. You should give someone a one Tererss club jacket during a model they're not coming. I've done three. You've done how many, David two and you've done one. so we're this we're five right here. six Yeah. It's we can get a jack You get a sleeve and I get a Yeah. No, that was you know, I was ninety seven. What were you promoting, do you know? What was I promoting? I say ninety seven ninety seven, I believe. Yeah. You usually go on when a movie pops on or something. Yes. I don't quite remember. No No Do you remember enjoying it or being scared or there's I think as many people have said, it's a singular experience, but I mean I am used to live theater and But it's like nothing I've ever done. And yes, it was, I mean, look, I got to do sketches with Sherry O' Terry and Will Ferrell and great great. It was it wason't get bored with that performance because it's over before you know what you're like. Now now I have it. Now I can do it and it's like Yeahah, it's done No, I, you know, I loved it. I loved it. Yes. Yes. and then after at the after party, I do remember sitting with Lauren. And he said,'re you're good at this. And and oh, I said, thank you. He said, Well, you'll do it again. And then I never did it again. U Yeah you'll do it again. see wr down that'll never. Do you have how many you done Ln Michaels just wanted Tony. How about that I saw that for for S. Mgadun? We worked very hard and the thing Mgadune on TV Yes, it was on Apple. Yeah It's a Broadway show a differentcast. And then they did it on they just did it on Broadway. Not with the same cast, though. No, not with the same. Yeah. Oh Rim off Yeah Um No, a whole new cast and it's u Yeah, it'sgad Dunon by Nabisco. musical. Yeah. I thought they were crackers. But there he was. what he said he was funny. He when he accepted, he said I'm not going to attempt in front of YouTube an impression. But he said it's been a long night And he said and sometimes All you need is some singing, some dancing and and a few jokes. at a few good jokes. Yeah. That's whatauren said Yeah goodood. He's not there to milk it out. He's not going to go too long to play it off like a fool. He's done pretty well, you know, that guy. He wants to be at Yeah. Yeah, just one last question. So you've got this, go ahead Were you in a documentary about him I was one being a it Yeah, Dane is in it. And you were off to the side just. mine was a hard pass Y No, I uh no, I um I don't think we did a bunch during the fiftieth. I didn't do a lot of them I was they just had me in a room where I live up on a farm and I did I talked about they did a whole documentary on the cowbell sketch with Walkin Oh, right. Hold do about our Ary to light these days And then Lauren and Luren Lauren's movie and Al it Mc knowon and you know, Anyway, Nathan Weinsman, our guest. Congratulations. I think it's very cool that you're got to do this. Me too. I can't thank you enough. It was It's a pleasure and it's because it's been so long since I've seen you. So Well, I'm mentally healthier. I knew that you were incapable coming Hey, you know, I'm Nathan Lane. That's you never were gonna get like altered by your success and a new guy shows up The the guy I knew in ' eighty one was not capable of going, Hey, you know, guess what donon't you seem like exactly the same person? I mean you've grown as a person, but I'd like the core of you is not But I can see it's really gone to your head. Yes. Yain is unsufferable. Good f I feel like Mickey Rooney knew he was working with suufferable. He went to state school What did I say? Unsufferable? Un it's not a word Homeschooled in Arizona worse Okay, Nathan, by the way, you cracked me up a lot. It's great to talk to you. so much fun to have you Um And I learned a lot I learn a lot about Well if you're if you're in New York U we're there tntil August ninth If you hear someone playing angry birds in the audience, that might be That' be you? I'm like. I didn't know So totally off All right, listen, if you're enjoying the fly on the wall, of course, hopefully you are. click follow. We don't want to be desperate, but obviously smash that goddang button on favorite podcast. Leave a review, a good one. Leave a five star rating, nothing else and maybe even share an episode with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please Subscribe, Dana, what do you? I'm gonna tell you this right now. He me now believe me later Fly in the Wall, believe it or not, is presented by Odyssey. And executive produced by Holdope for it