Pushing Past Cringe and Failure

Hey, before we jump back into the show Let's take a quick break. All right, notot just any break. This is a refreshing break with Snapple. We all know about Snapple's iconic real facts. So let's take a minute to go over some of my faves. Snapple Re Fact four hundred fifty five. Movie trailers used to come on at the end of the movies, but no one stuck around to watch them. I've heard that. Snnapple Real Fact eight hundred thirty one. Adults laugh only about fifteen to one hundred times a day, while preschoolers laugh an average of three hundred times a day Snap a real fact, nineteen eighty three. The first player drafted to play pro football never played in the league That's interesting. Snnaap of Real Fact twelve seventy four kickball is referred to as soccer baseball in some parts of Canada Hm. 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When every second counts, count on ADT Visit ADt d. com or call one eight hundred A T AS AP. Okay, we got Bo and Yang. Bo Yang more recent SNL gres. It doesn't think five Eemy nominations and a win or something like that. Wow, wow, wow. That's pretty that's more than me, I'll tell you.ard He ties me. Whoops. You didn't. Did you get that many? I want to recount. I'll tell you how it's done later. Anyway, Bo and Yank, this is a really fun podcast. He's a cool dude. fununny, interesting And humble I think he was coming on live of Wicked before Wicked two came out Yesice. Y. Yeah, we caught him right right in that because he's hot as a pistol. I think what happened is he's doing a lot of movies, doing S andL and I think I read at a certain point He felt like, well It can go on without me. And he said, Lauren Caldwan said, mayaybe do another half season and then Hel with the new guys and yes. And he said, great, if Llauren asks for something, I'll do it whichich is nice. So here he is, he's going to tell you all about everything Oh yang. There's a movie about me, Dana I don't want Everyone beating me up They're like, this is his life. He was always getting beat up And so my descendants would not like that out. It was start of the movie is Chris Farley holding you over his head and throwing you across a basketball court. That's the cold opening. That's in between takes Yeah, that's really. And what would be the sound that our sweet friend Chris would make? Then he goes, That's good Yeah. gets nervous. It's great to have Bo on because now we're talking to because when I went on Smartless, I said Oh, I'm going to make this easy. I know how to I know what a guest is like. so You do a podcast. so it's already, you get the whole thing as opposed to can I ask questions or what do I say? I might not, but I think I think every show has its own unwritten set of rules or whatever. and I I guess got to you just gotta like learn how to get in there. You guys are really good at it though Thank you. We like to send two hundred episodes over to each guest just to get a feel for it Yeah, yeah. they can listen all the way. What about Sarah Sherman? What's wrong with her? That's my first question. What happens's wrong with her?re Are we all like in this limerance phase with Sarah? I think the three of us are all equally obsessed with Sarah Sherman. And we're coming at different angles She's a one off and it's so refreshing. I mean, you can't even I couldn't know I wouldn' know how to describe her Yeah Yeah because she's So charming. She has this she has like an intergenerational appeal. She has like an interered whatever gender appeal. but I think like As a gay guy I'm obsessed with her. and then in you two as straight guys are obsessed with her. Like she just has this universal peel that I need to get to the bottom of and I would love to have this whole episode be about her We have to get the bottom of it because too. She has She had me at Mullet and then she was funny and then she's bananas And then cute as about. And then she goes on the road and she's so funny because I just see clips and I'm like Sarah, what's going on the road? She goes, I don't know exactly It's very funny and she's got a great show. so Really enough about her. Let's bring on our second guest today. Sarah Sheran I would be so thrilled. He would love She She's a part She throws a party wherever she goes whenever I se her. and then we're invited and sort of like someone at least on the surface who's knownows how to navigate life a little bit, mayaybe not take it too seriously. I don't know. You know her so much better than I do at this point because you've seen her under pressure, under stress.ure. How is she under stress? and how are you under stress a k on that Freakaking show. Uhuh. I think we're okay. She is You know, her and Dan Bulla less them both, but they will stay at thirty Rock until like two thirty in the morning on a Thursday trying to like get every page right And I am someone who is going to call it at like nine thirty and be like, it's time to go home You know, the writer's table is what he's talking about probably the rewrite day, they read the sketches on Wednesday. I'm telling our audience it doesn't know anything two hundred episodes, they don't understand it at all. So they and then Thursday they picked the sketches and then the writers would come in maybe with one of the customers whoever wrote it together And you the table rewrites is that sort of still how it goes? They go sketch sketch Setch by sketch ends with me now And now I'm sure people told you like We usually don't have a cold open until Friday. So the cold open does not get a rewrite table. usually. Oh, does a cold open do A read through Most of the time, you don't get a cold openher until Saturday at Saturday tables. it's pretty it's pretty wild Especially if it's political, you want to wait as long as possible, case somebody So some crazy crazy thing happens, which is the rhythm we're in now As a culture. you feel like it's high hurdling this and now this and then what's next? It't be good? donon't know. but u I was just curious, u about Yeah how relax you say I mean, it seems like this is a tradal. O on camera, O camera You know, it's like for our audience, you were first a writer and then you became a feature player M And you seem to then the audience discovers you And then there's this sort of massive leap that you make forward when they they know you. Here comes Moen and you you've made them happy every time they see you What phase of that are you in right now I'ar in the last one, but maybe. but Did you guys ever D you guys ever like take this time, let's say this time if you were recording this in like late August, like right before the season starts, you buckle down just a little bit and you're like, let me like get stuff in the tank and it never gets used, but you're like, let me just make some Cordon ver. That's the thing for sure is that you start thinking of sketch ideas in August or anything you think of It'll never make it onto the show. You just feel like you want to have ideas, but then the week comes and there's nothing like that week. Right. But to answer a question, I think I'm in the stage now where And I don't know if this is me tricking myself into anything, but I always want to go into each season. as if it was my first year Does that sound? I think pathetic or something? Oh, no, I think that I think that's good to never not kind of worry a little bit is health. You know, I got But it's But you have to like that place will always knock you on your ass. like no matter how deeveloped you feel like you are, right? Like And especially like I'm really curious about what'll happen if the show is still around for when I like return and just say hi to people or something, just just to like visit the halls and like sayay hello. like I wonder what that'll feel like because that'll be bizarre Have you ever gone back to your high school Yeah? on a Sunday afternoon and walked around. That's what it feels like Okay. I back, I go, Everyone's so tiny. These rooms are so tiny because they grew so much When I left and then I came back to host and I was like, ye. Oh my God, I fit in here M. I think there's when you're in the summer And you're trying to think of ideas and you're just really doing anything to get a head start. that's That's kind of terrifying. Do you have a writer? I think Punky, we just talked to Punky and she said Yeah She had a writer or she she just great. or she was assigned a writer or maybe or just one kind of gravitated Do you have someone they let you bring on or you just work with everybody I I think I tend to work with everybody. I was working with Sudie Green, who I went to college with and she got hired for she was like the first person in our little like coterie of like comedians doing sketch at UCB, like mid twenty ten s, she kind of got like raptured up into that spaceship first and we were like, oh my God, like someone made it Um and then she trying to shhepherded my like little lamb ask for the first season at SNL and then And then she ended up working with Maya and Marty a lot. and then she helped Maya with Kamala and so I think I think she'll be back the fall Um, when M is back and then, um I udy So it was Sudie Green, and then she left and then there was a writer Celestie M. who also works with Sarah, but they were gonna lead. And but I try to sort of like My my goal every season is just to like, see like cat like I don't know Throw a wide blanket on every. Sure. You want everybody to write something. You want to be available for every idea any Eactly Yeah exactly. And I think this is just something I think you might find flattering or interesting it was for us. So we first started this. Tina Fe was like our fourth guest And so we got discussing SNL and comedy. Yeah. And then she just said Have you seen Bowen, Yang Do the Titanic iceberg. She just said, I'm not saying it is eloquent L she did. She said it's something new It's an angle that's just different. And I thought that was cool. I didn't I hadn't met you at that point. I thought what an interesting thing to say, but it was Um I don't know, how to describe that coming about? because that kind of that landed hard Yeah, and I, you know No one expected it to, but it was thing that we did at Read through and it kind of just happened and people were like, d know that was cute Um, but it was idea that Anna Dresen who used to work there was the headwriter there first season had where We were just on a hiatus She was like, Maybe in April for the anniversary of the Titanics thinking, you come ont the iceberg and you just wantna promote your album. And I was like Oh that'sll that's funny, but what would that look like? I don't know. like so weird What's what's the attitude? Bahah blah And then April rolled around. so a couple months had passed. and then I was like, Hey, were you still thinking about that Titanic idea? I think that's I still don't quite know what it is, but I think it's like I was like, it sounds really funny. So let's like Just like put clan on the table and like, get to the bottom of it what. it is and then if it sticks with you, it's also a good idea because you're like, I was just thinking. Yeah, about it. yeah Maybe that maybe that's like one little secret, right? It's like if the idea is still It's still sticky in a couple months probably worthwhile in some. Like any life. you think of something later, you think of it again and you're like That was kind of funny. Even though you don't ha't cracked the codeet you're like There's definitely something there I think that you had to see it. like once yeah, seeing is the thing was on your head and the whole thing and then There's no wink or tiny nod to that. You just are the iceberg And We How do you get there? Why aren't you freezing? Why are you on Saturite lightight? I mean I would say if you can get to five questions for a sketch, then you're in this magic area. Wow. That has a lot of questions. Yeah Wait Have you guys talked about this this five questions thing? I think so. Dan has been I love it. Yeah Dana, what the heck I love that. How did he get there? What is the iceberg? Why is? Yeah What is he whyy iss on update? Why Is it on another sketch? Do the cast No the iceberg's there.. It's something that hit me at one point. I don't know if it's that profound, but it is fun to think of sketches that really crush does that have I have questions. W, I'm writing this down. I'm writing this down analog. I'm not even typing it everybody Picking up a pencil and I'm reiting Five questions. That's hip. No, and then so we did it a table read. It was fine. It was kind of in the mix throughout the week and then get what it was like Pete might have like there might have been questions about like whether or not Pete was going to come back that week because he was kind of like dipping in and out because you know, that was his want. And so it was Pete. and I think there was just a question mark on what the lineup was going to be for the show. And then Friday night at midnight we get call from one of the producers, we get the text from one of the producers after the meeting with Luren on Friday night, they're like, okay I think Bowen's update is a go And then At that point, Anne and I were like texting each other pictures of like kids in Halloween costumes from nineteen ninety eight like dressed up as the Titanic and dressed up as the iceberg We're like, maybe it's this, maybe it should be like dinner jacket know maybe it should be like a white leather jacket instead and then when we'd like lean on dinner jacket and should to have these like jewels on them and so it all came together over the course of I don't know Less than twenty four hours. When can you tell a wardrobe? When do you when's the latest you could tell thinkink The worst I've done is Day of but not before like meal break. are like like four like four or five PM. But it's like You know, like the ask has to be reasonable. It can't be like can get like a whole like right I want to come in on a horse. Do you have an ice creg costume on you that' actually super funny, not just a regular one? exactly But it was yeah, Friday night at midnight and then God, we went at like typical update length, page length right now is like seven pages to clock in like three and a half minutes. We wrote eleven pages. And the entire we were just it was so indulgrient and like masturbatory. We were just like, this is never going to make it on TV. This is so crazy. Like what We were like we were just laughing at each other U in this office next to script on on nine, like right across from Lauren's office and we were like It felt delirious, it felt very fever dreamy. We were like, this is never going to go. Like if it works minute one, that's what you want. We were talking about this onene joke. get it, you push out They start laughing because you look funny. Yeah then they get the idea and then they're on board. But if they're not, that's a long eleven ages. I think also I remembering it, he was defensive, didn't the character didn't want to wr about the Titanic was kind of angry. How do you think Ifeld and all that and then wants to promote his electro pop band. So those things were kind of fired. You know, because it could have gone differentles there Well that was that was all pulled from u When Paris Hilton went on Letterman right after she got arrested, And all Letterman wanted to ask her about was her getting arrested and all she wanted to talk about was her perfume line. And so we were just like, That's a good analogy. Yeah, yeah yeah. there we go. That's it insppect. But that was that was it. like we just like, like And I was like, what What can me, what does this scan on? What does this map ono? And I was like, I think Like my favorite letter inter review ever is him talking to Paris Hultton And so like let's like just Not a drag and draw, but it was just it was a nice one So that's the whole story. I can draw Hm. Summer. What do you think about summer? Come up It sneaks up on me. Yeah, I know. It is coming up. I'm trying to juggle plans, juggle meals Enjoy the weather. Instac carts made that easier. I can sit outside, build my car with everything you need for the week Not have to step away from what I'm doing. I've been leaning on delivery through Instacart for meal prep, especially, David. Like getting fresh veggies Proteins, even those perfectly ripe avocado,. I set my preferences once And it's so seamless. It saves me a lot of time and make sure I'm getting all the quality I want And the convenience is huge. 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And then I do want to know how it came about. was always pretty obvious that your goal was to be a cast member and it was almost like a nod. do you do one year, you write Um, you find your lane And then you play like a fucking out iceberg on upd here Really loring. Hey Fen Glly David. I'll let Bowen answer this one. Oh on your first. Oh, okay. I would love to hear David's answer I'll do it. My answers vary. twenty two minutes long. here it is U I was born in Arizona. Oop, back too far. Boy hereere we go again. I'm just gonna to take a little break. Sandler, when I tell him a story, he goes backack too far, speed it up. So anyway, I I basically was a writer performer with Schneider they didn't they said, don't write yourself in. They said, for sure, don't. We got so many people I didn't want to a writer. I't know how to be a writer. Write yourself in maybe a line or two here when they have punky kids. and then They would if you had too much, they would pull you out. They'd say that's five lines. give that to Mike Myers and I'm like, o fuck So you do that. It's just so hard to write for myself already and then write for someone else and wrning a sketch. so It did take a long time to learn that stuff. and then yeah. And then we came back to the next year and Schneider put himself in copy machine and I was flabbergass. I'm like You're breaking all the rules. And then it got on and I was like Wait. Um, no one said it was fair And I was like, oh, it's not fair. You took it out of my mouth. I was about to say that So ye So it's okay because I think that technicality I learned was It was something that they said, if you do it, best you can write it for yourself. But if it's just a funny idea for a sketch, give it away So Rob did that well, yeah That's funny though, because I feel like it You're lucky if you have someone like Rob there to show you that like the you can just break the rules and If you do it well enough, no one's going to say anything. or no one's going to take issue with it. Right. You know That's what happened. I was like, what are you doing, dude? But he was very like fuck that shit. He would always write himself in and make them take on Adam wrote himself in so fast. And I was like, this is the way we do it here because I was brainwashed And when it worked, I'm like, well, what am I doing? But they had hookier stuff. So it was harder for me. So But I could see it like Adam's stuff was so L little nutty, a little left to center and it was really him and I'm like, shit, I am not really like that. I'm more dried jokes and whatever the fuck I do. So it took a more it took longer to get a foothold, but it was They kind of some of the rules and workking out. Yeah. And I I have to ue confessions. Remember you came to my office that one night, you were a feature writer and I said First thing you'd never do is write yourself into a sketch. And I regret that. Well it's true though. My point is that My other point is that we all had seen you. We knew you were funny. me and Dennis and Kevin. and we knew you and Schneider were standu upps. We'd seen you kill at clubs. So when I saw Schneider out there doing the copy machine, yeah, that's something Rob would do Yeah Bowen I I screen tested four times by the time H Lauren was like they saw you in UCB Re? Yeah.. was that where they saw you in New York or where in New York It was New York Ient I sent in a tape on a lark. I was like, they're never going to hire like an effeminate Asian guy. Like like why would they? There's no need for that. L let me let me think the way Lauren Michaels think is' not going They have so many. They've got Leo there.. I was just like this is just never going to happen. so I'm just gonna to have fun with it. And then Tape was kind of was what went just cleared each stage stage game. So I did like the UCB showcase and then D did screen test callback one year then they And Lauren just decided to throw another round of screen tests in March of the following season and then holding deal until August and then that was the fourth time And so Holding deal. So yeah, that was like it was the first time I was on one like elt a special holding d peopleeople at home, that means what, you get paid nothing until they decide littleittle bit of money and your might be on television. Wet the beat It was like it was peanuts and like at the time it just S andL, it's a big deal. Right, Right, right It's seventy eight dollars a month. but if you stretch it, it'll last.nd a movie pass. It's from myal chuckbook. And did you have a breakthrough one live with everyone? Did you have to do that thing? or was you just gradually all of a sudden they called you and said, you're a writer U No, it was so after the tape, it was the live thing at UCB. So they just did like a live showcase with a bunch of people And then And from then on it was just screen tests. and then I remember My first meeting with Lauren, I fucked it up because the first thing the first thing I said was, I also grew up in Canada and I can speak French. like that was and he saw through that immediately and I was like, who is this? Yeah, totally.. How did you dig yourself out of that hole? I did it. I stayed in the hole. I stayed in the hole and then Thought it was done Um In the second meeting, he was in LA. It's always so crazy. It's never It's never normal situation. It neverever normal. No He was at the Beverly Hills Hotel because he was doing the Eemies that year because Ch Chan Coen were hosting. and so Room thirty one. it's a sweet I always get that. Yeah. That's his hotel. He's a creature I have. Of course J. Yeah. to go for a walk. Uh huh. He loves his walk and everybody knows. we're revealing a walk.m like Jesus, I thought we were lost. I go, Lauren Wh's the Beverly Hs Hotel? We walked walked I'm I thought this is a cute little jaunt, but it was honestly it was it's exactly five miles. I'm like, no, this is I have to prep a lunch. He was getting his ten thousand steps. I had a long hike with him with a bunch of people on Long Island. And eventually at one point, I believe he did say trees are violent Think about it, Dana. Root systems and there's this aggression. It's a bio evvolutionary thing L fleas. I need another hit fucking character. No. I think I think Dana's got Dana's got the most like Tambre perfect L impression, I think. so I love Bill Haters. I love different incarnations of them. Bill's can sort of right here But So So you get hired. I was curious just for a second. UCB when they would do showcase were you kind of, did you knew you had something? Were you? killing it eventually on stage at UCB pre SNL We were doing I'm assuming you were doing Yeah We were doing like monthly shows. we did like a monthly sketch show there. they called them Sanks and then it turned into like a monthly show. And so it was like a half hour littleittle sketch thing and we were doing stuff at the pit and I was doing like I went to I went to school in the city and met met a lot of like cohort people there and it was nice Did you audition with anyone that made it all the way Did I audition with anyone that made it all the way? So my first year I auditioned was the same year as Heidi and Chris Red and Luke, Noel So they so they were people And then Andrew D Mues was also that year. And he got hired as a writer first as well then the next year I came on to write for just one season and then When Lauren called me to like give me give me cast, he was like, this was the plan all along. I had to let you I had to let you cook And if I threw you out there without a paddle, it would have beenirresponsible because there's going to be a lot of eyes on you. and I was like, okay mean it was a really stressful year because I lik David was like, I don't identify as a writer. I don't know how to write for myself or other people Let alone, u, But I'm glad I had that. time there, that gestation because like I would' have like I saw how saausage got made, you know, and like it kind of demystified it. So I literally only figured out how sausage was made, but not how reite a sketch But you know also, I don't think you have like I wrote a sketch about the House sace about. It write it up, Dana. We had three episodes. But when you see these other guys go by you on a rocket ship, that's the hard part. On my own, I could just sit there and learn like school But every two weeks someone else is getting hired and then on the show. I'm like Wait and then the The insult was I think after two years he' like We're going to keep you on as another feature player. I'm like, I'm the only one left. I I just I'm not fast. So that was humiliation. but like ye again, I walked out it when it all is said and done. It feels like I was on there and did what I used to do, but It was never when I was there. I never walked away nailed it. I was like fucking walkking away like with a limp going I don't know what happened. It's just hindsight. It only like it only comes in yeah. I mean, do we think that that's like character building or do we think that that's traumatic Hm. So it's been trauma since Yeah. I mean, I feel it was really top. Yeah. but I got a lot out of it. I think it depends. I mean Some people you don't hear from again and that's just it works. that's probably what happens. And so you leave there I remember one time we were doing movies and I said, I think I want to leave And they go Where are you going to go I like you leave SNL, then what happens. I'm like, You'd already done Tommy Boy, which was a niceic. I was like, I don't wow. I don't wantan to leave because I'm getting more stuff and they go, That stuff dries up if you leave ' I didn't have time to do it all. And I was like Never quite got that And then later you go, oh, if you work, you usually get more work. and I But that didn't make any sense. And then it did later, but I was like, I actuallyually you're quite I would just say it you it puts armor on you. you'll never be another thing like this live unprepared. It's in the cards, all the nonsense, all your relatives watching They're not using you so much this week, hey, you know Um, so you get resilient. I mean, u You are coming out in a huge movie. I don't want to jump ahead because I have some sketches I want to get to. Yeah. Wicked, wicked And so That and then S and L I mean, it's a little bit of a And then your podcast is Yeah, it's huge. I mean, it's It's right in the top twenty out of four million you guys. So there's a lot of success happening to you right now. and I had a phase like that with Wayne's World and so forth and so on. So What are you? I am a licensed therapist, but how are you feeling Are you you're in your sixth season as a cast member or going into your sixth season? Ging into sex Ging into ax. Yeah. And I feel just for the audience Three or four Emmy nominations. Oh like sack It wasn't, it's not it wasn't I didn't do the day in a thing of consecutive But yes. is that what Dana Da, I think Data has like five consecutive and consecutive years Sheeez S. Oh boy. And then seven for the win U Yes we'll get this online for people listening No, but to a side chat for that.. I'm just I'm going around on my headck because I'm watching your stuff and it's like, as you know, Lauren loves people He loves comedians basically. He loves us. He loves funny people. He also loves funny who can go and score and make the audience really happy consistently And that's where you're where you are. I mean, I've watched all your stuff it's like You're landing constantly on that show. My hit rate is average. I like there's there'ss. All right I'm also I'm also on attourney. Yeah The do you sketch with Ryan Goslow. God, stop, stop stop Bon Yang is straight with Sidney Sweeney. Oh ye. George Santos on update in the cold opening, You know, just things that are kind of killer viral stuff. Now I'm gonna let you talk. Itt It doesn't feel like you're asking me how it feels, like Someone asked Well it was sure, totally surreal. But someone asked and I'm not comparing myself to Sher or anything, but someone asked Cher recently, like, what does it feel like to be an icon? And she goes, it doesn't feel like anything When you don't you guys agree? like like when someone's like, what did it feel like? or what does it feel like to have been on SNL? And I'm like, No. feeleels like feel like anything, right? Most of the time people in life,l you' unless you're on a chain gang or building things, most of us just hang out most of our lives. It's an eas You're even at SNO, you're hanging out. then in between shows, you're hanging out. right now we're hanging out, which is a you're hanging out. Um, and so Yeah. I remember the first time I got recognized and my wife said, You're famous. It really shocked her. And then it made her see all other famous people as just people So yeah, sure. We've been behind the curtain so we kind of understand. You know But it's but that still feels like a mystifying thing to you. L if you Do you see someone else go through it? Is that here to say U I relate to it. I'm interested in it. when I watch 'cause I can get Saturight Live, which is great on Pacock at eight hundred thirty on the West cooast. On the West coast. So I'm watching it live a lot more. I get the YouTube clip. So it's kind of fun and I watch You know, I notice cast members getting confidence a sketch they're breaking through that Saturday Live is unintentionally, I think, unless Lauren is more brilliant than people give him credit for That it's a reality show. You take unknowns, you put them on this show and see how they go or you take a football player. Hey, maybe that guy can do sketch comedy. Yeah the show is always entertaining and interesting to me because I'm kind of watching it from this other perspective And I think like I get caught up in the meta narrative sometimes. especially now. I'm like, o, like there's likeike um Like I'll get ripped into like a headline or like into like some pickup every now and then I'm like oh, God, this is so unfair. this is stressful. This is not what I meant or this is not what I was doing like Yeah, you know, while like Chappelle was standing on stage with me. But it's like but but it ends up I think War understands that it ends up being this thing that like is what the show is, which is like the way like People's emotions are on display for this and the way that like culture changes or Pndulum swings one way and then back the other and you know, I think like it's all I think Lauren has an awareness of it. I think Lauren knows that it's a reality show. Well Steve Higgins said that he wrote the Constitution basically and it's a liquid You know, it changes with Yeah Yeah. I come from the analog era. I mean, you know, Yeah basically landlines and fact shees I think no one likes pickups Yeah O like I would like if you make some noise You're coming back. I think that's what he wants. He just doesn't want anybody flatlining S And if they are I remember, by the way, just to go back I just saw the Syney for anyone When Iidi at the beginning casually goes He just plays gay as a shortcut to jokes. Shortcut to laughs. That was like good to laugh a shortcut to laughs. And then there wass a couple other burns. It was pretty funny. but That was a good one. She was she was great in that. She was great She such she seems like I I think Kim Kardash did a nice job sort of surprisingly. I don't think Sydney is a surprise that she was good, but It's just good when people everything kind of balls in their in the right way on a show because it can go the other way so easily. Totally I think she's an example of a host who came in and understood how she was being consumed and perceived already. Like she came in she was like, please everyone make jokes about my boobs. she she was begging everybody. S no more. Say no more. And then and then she, um Like I went down went down to her dressing room on Thursday right before the tape. I was like justust so you know like we're getting an intimacy coordinator And if you're at any point uncomfortable, you know, you can tap out like if, you know, if we make out and you hate it, no problem. we can cut it. And she goes, B and I'm on euphoria. But then she also said But then she also said, She goes you're you're youre you're living every gay man's dream by like having sex with me and I'm like, how do you know that? Like she knows that like She's so she's so raw sexual power that like anyone would be thrilled to like simulate sex with her It's so crazy ere likeike were there hosts like that when you guys were there whereere like it was just like some like had I had crushes on hosts for sure. Sometimes you see someone that's really likeike an actress, it's great. and they come on And then like anything in the world, personality or their talent during the week just shoots them even higher. You're like, o my yeah they're super cool or they roll with anything or they're just good in the sketches or nice everybody and then you're like goes up or some people they can lose of course points off course. I think Sweeney seems like a good one And Dana worked with a lot of lot great people too. ye. This goes back. It was Dolly Barton Phil and John are talking to Dolly And she's got a littleut thing old thing. And she goes, all right, well, I'm gonna look away. so you boys can look. Let's get it over with. you know. Her monologue was great because Camera just kept going over to her her cleavage. That was a great monologue Yeah, she had a sense of humor about the whole thing and when you talk to her She's really just kind of this brilliant songwriter. I mean, she created Dolly Parton But you know, they themed the bodyguard. I shall always was Britney Spears the one that had the boob monologue where her boob The moving ts. Yeahah. that was Oh.. What a great Easy not easy idea. J a good idea that Yeah. you had to buy into it. Study and play! Come together on a Windows eleven PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows eleven PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft three hundred sixty five premium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows dot com slash student offer Whw supppplies last ends june thirtieth terms at aka. mS slash collollege PC Summers serve up the cookout cllassics, Heinz ketchup and Kraft singles. Every good burger needs a layer of perfectly melty cheese and thick rich ketchup. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz and Kraft You have one new message. Translating isney and Pixararss Hoppers is now available on Disney plus. You that again. Critics are calling it Pixar's funniest movie ever, and a wildly entertaining ride. Blizzard Potato, It's certified fresh and verified hot. Now we party This is incredible. I am clear in the rest of the day. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers is now available on Disney pllus. red BG. Oh yeah, you were about to tell us the host that was mean to everyone Yeah, I'll tell you I'll tell you guys my. You're trying to We're trying to we' in. We were going to be on No, but this is we got in trouble for saying StevenZe Gal wasn't. I mean, we everyone gets in trouble for saying, but That's what everyone asks. and then you he can only Dodging for so me just tryed to explain why they weren't great. I heard Paris Hilton was But that was after I left. And then you go, why Be I've heard so many people but Some it just doesn't work out and some are fighting it. and there's a reason, but it's scary, it's a scary place. could be. someome people deal with stress by lashing out Yeahing that and being kind of overly angry and it's all just anxiety and fear You know, It was just, I think I think The layer on my little quote, my little poll, which by the way, like I was like it was like it was like on Andy Cohen show and they play this game and so like I saw it's a game pick up This g get's a game called Stay on another season or But you didn't say the name of the person. So I felt it was pretty benign when I watched it just sure was this one. But then the game of because of all the I think it was the game I I think it was me saying that that this person made multiple cast members cry. And I think that is more about that That is more about the environment of the place. that Well that that's like Wednesday like S sk like imagine like you stay up til four AM writing a sketch and then the host is like, I fucking hate this. Like you're gonna have some your nerves are frraid. You're gonna have some weird, bizarre emotional response. I'm not saying I was the one who cried. You're exhausted. You'reotionally spent. I get it. I mean Lure hand show Car upall. D Yeah Faded on Bowen, he's dressed as a Irish potato Iish Update could use a potato an Irish potato. I don't know. I don't know where I love it. But some of those shows like Andy Cohens, I'm saying is The questions are like whatever you answer is going out there because totally Who did you hate the most and you like the most? It's like, who do you like? Who's the funniest? And it's like Click here to hear who is the funniest No, totally. set it up for horrible. Gossip You survive. Gossip is in our DNA. I mean, the homo sapiens from two hundred thousands ago. Gos Odom excuse me. the gay sapiens. Yeah By the way, I mean, in the gay community because you're the first person to really have so many sketches around someomeone being gay. I mean, the gay Oompa Oompa is especially hster. That than I mean, are you embraced? Are you iconic or they is because or are ridiculle how how does it go over? I think there's a healthy sp I think Gay audience is always going to be a little leerary and they're always going to be like, well, I could have done it better. You know? likeike there's there's there's a there's some a drag.'s a's a it's it's But I think it's healthy. I think it's like a fine like I think so too just like I think ye. I mean, it's I was told they're jealous. Yeah Yeah that the closest I got I was from San Francisco in the standard. had gay friends and they said the church lady would play at the gay bars. Of course San Francisco, they would play the sketches and I go I just thought it was flattering because, you know, Oh my God. no church lady is very Gay iconic. and David, I will say Oh I think I think no And this is not something SNL related honestly. I think Just shoot me is like very queer canon What is it?'s queer cid. J Just shoot me. It's queer c. I think like there's there's something about like You and like Wendy Mallik and like Laura and what's her name? Laura Santacomo? Yeah Like I think like there's something like it's it's like it was like a the first sitcom that was like at a magazine And so think I think gay people of a certain generation magazine. a model magazine was all that that world And then yeah. And then that was that that was honestly how I first discovered David. I it was it was pre it was before I was aware of what SNL, the history of SNL was I was like was like was like I just moved to the states. I started watching TV all the time Fr Australia fromrom Canada, It was Australia then Canada. then Canada in the States. Yeah, yeah. You know, what's funny about is that for a model magazine There was no gay person on the show. Sure sure. it was me. I don't know. I mean, that' that what you're telling character was gay The whole time you were like, the gay fininch was our favorite. I'm like Oh my. Yeah, I don't know, maybe. But I loved Wendy on that show. She was so, I mean, well I had a blast with everybody And I thought Wendy every read throughrough is so funny as Nina. Fantastic suchuch a blast. That was a lucky break of leaving SNL and doing something else because it's I was just said It said that next move is terrifying. I was gonna to say, I feel like you landed really on a nice sort of page. Yeah I was just luck, you know, the way this business is, it's you think you're good, bad, but if you are in the right place and you get on the right show and there's writers and a network loves it All those people good around me. it just, it just really, really helps. And then you just try to Fred water, the rest of your fucking life. This I wish it's easier, bone It is Well, well, this is how I feel. like you guys are asking me like how I feel like going into my sixtiesason. like o, I completely completely abide by this thing that it's's it is just luck. Like if I was and I think even Tina mentioned this like on on her episode where she was like, this would never have flown The iceberg would have never been on the show like even ten years before Like I got very, very luck. I feel like it's like I feel like the Mars Rover landing on that square inch. of Martian soil that they have to land at at that exact spot. on land like That's me. likeike like I couldn't have I could not have been any kindind of even like, yeah, I just couldn't have made it to the show period. Had it not been for like a very specific set of Yeah alignments, you know? A lot of fluky things. I mean, I auditioned twice is a stand upp and it wasn't for Lore but for the, you know, pass, pass, you know, ye. yeep. And then going back to your share an the night that I I was in a club and Rosie O'Donald U was playing there. I had not met her and I said, I think I have a Lauren Michaels is going to come see me at this little club on the west side of LA And so she agreed and we flipped the coin and we both got to scene. And what happened was I'm nervous as hell. Lauren comes on the head of the network and then share. So I just when you said share, share And when I run into share, very rarely she go, I was there the night you, you know. That's incredible. I was there. I decid David's gota share B sh Mel. I've never tried to doare. Ive I'm seventy four. You should do share I would love to share. I've get a good share impression I make sure you do. Can we give it Yeah five seconds of share? Sure If I want to put tits on my back, that's nobody's business but mine Pretty good. Was it her a m Let's just go half breed. They did the limp half breed. That's it. You know, boom. They go too low. They go too like snap out of, but she did she was never that low. She's got a pretty high like literal pitch. She pitches her voice out pretty high. Yeah. I love her. I first met her When I was eleven or twelve at a theater near where I grew up in the peninsula, it was Sunny and Care And we waited outside to get her autograph. So to your point about the kismut and the weirdness of getting her or any of this happening I happen to be into the right place at the right time over and over again. And then, you know, like Mike Myyers said, Cha, would you like to play Gars? Well, okay, what is it You know, and then it goes to that I agree, but Um You know, some there's one sketch that I the your look the The design of your look really stood out for me as instantly funny. And that was the Doctors sketch with Ryan Gosling. Oh, you had this white suit, long straight black hair. It was It was such a cleverly written sketch and then J just about first of all, nothing went wrong. You're talking to the relers, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Ryan Gosson comes out. I mean That whole show, I have to say, just did exude joy. For whatever reason it had the beis and butud head and you know, ye something about Ryan Gosling on that show He's a star. just yeah and someone who like You know, you know, every time like there's like anytime like an actor would come on, like a serious actor would come on, like they would just like they just ask not necessarily the right questions. They'd be like, well what's like Where's he coming from? What's his motivation? You're like, it's just Just say the line, read the card. But he I think he that point that was like his fourth time hosting. He was asking those same questions, but for some reason like There was an endearing quality to it. and I think he really was. That's his way of maybe that's some people's way of just finding comedy of it. Like it's just their process. It's not a comedian's process at all Buts an it's like an oscar nominated actors's process for sure. Like, you know, that's something What is your proble Because we were writing pen and paper a lot of the time. I mean, we the cast back in the early days For sure. Sometimes I would write a sketch. I would just put a check markark for either something funny or an actual laugh And I would try to in read through Well and all if in read through or even ahead of time and afterwards like, okay, Oh, there's a gap here. H what what can I put maybe a funny physical move or What's your methodology? And I sat with a lot of writers as well or I write alone, but I liked I was a stand up. I love working with writers and Bancy, you know, love that process. So you probably are you are you riffing with with some of these writers in the room Yeah, ends up being that ends up being the best method. U There's always someone like on keys, just like typing everything everyone's saying and then we just Oh, really. And then what and then what What I've started to do or what I learned from Sudie was, you know, you would just type out everything everyone would say Big old document and then you'd print out there's something important about printing it out and holding it in your hand.ing it and then circle and then you would have your select circle jokes that Yeah t Yeah, very tactile process. works. It works. and then you just and then it's just a matter of rearranging then and then Fill in with the connector. cutting out the fat. Yep. and then you get it tighter and then you cut out more fat. Yep. And then it's this, I need this line, and I need this, we need this Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would do the check mark thing that J David said at reads' like you do a sketch And you're and you're it's read through and you're hitting what worked. Yeah And then you look after, if it didn't get picked, you go, well, I only had three check marks on eight pages. That's it I think Higgins even like told us one time like what you do is you set up the thread, you yank at it, loosen, yank again, harder. Breaking another thread, cut both threads pull one again. Like it was just like such a like that is I don't know. that's such a complicated way of like doing it but I mean, it's a nice Yeah werent try to stand colorful Vveracular would be like just well, we beat the shit out Yeah, we took the idea and we just went beat the back out of it. you know It' just like How about this? How about this? How about that? but What is the what's the easiest one that you've had that was a big score that just sort of came together really fast. You know, someome of them just sort of fall together and others You are just, u Ive really George George Santos George was fun. That was that was mostly that was mostly Joost. I mean, the weekend update one was me and Helison Gates and Ken Sib Blett, but Joost would do the cold opens and the Candle in the wind thing was Joost Um, But There was one called Sarah Lee with Harry Styles where yes, I saw that It was that was me and Julio and that was that was just the two of us It' kind of a one like' like a one and done straight line path and that was it. And basically that went to TV and That was another thing where we were like, I can't believe this is going on air. Like I can't believe And that makes you go every now and then like, oh like, Lauren, Lauren does just kind of get one to like He understands when something is just ready to be out there, even though you as the person who wrote it might not agree with him even though you as the person who wrote it Even you have doubts about whether or not this is meant for a wider audience than the people internal at SNL. Lauren is like, No, like, America iss ready to see this, you know, which is crazy. Yeah. Can you imagine Sometimes o sorry, go ahead, David. just sometimes Monday meetings you pitch something and he goes, this is the week. O or he'll say it's not ready yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he goes, that feels like two weeks from now. He goes, this is the week and then this is when we need it. and It's usually right I now it's supposed to be. They know Pretty amazing how yeah, he's he's He's right. I think he's downloaded. I mean, Lauren is almost like a human AI when it comes to that show because a half century of downloading everything, what will kind of work, instincts around it in that room all filtered through his gigantic brain. He's incredible man, right And then yeah, it's all intuitive at this point. I mean, it like because he's never look he's never sweating. well Right before Air showow is when Lauren is really the most hamped up We'll lose the wig. We'll play that after update. Can we The wine glass is could it be a little shorter? All right, you know. I mean, you couldn't there's never been a camera on that meeting has there? Like has anyone ever just taken a video or put that I think I' seen the show at like ten forty five that's on live to the world at eleven thirty. I think they finally did put a camera in the room. so they're releasing all they' rereleasing all these do No, because they're releasing all these documentaries.'s. There's five documentaries Are you in any of the documentaries? I don't think so. I think they just sat me down or just talk. I think so there's one, I don't know what they're, but each one is about a different aspect and like One's about Lauren, one's about the musical guest. One's about like it's like a on cowbell. the sketch Oes about cowowbell. Yeah. There's a whole documentary on it Yeah, yeah inccredible. So I I'm just excited to see how they cut it together. No idea. One time Laurean grabbed me by the cQ cards and he went. Yeah And then I go he goes, no one will believe you and then you w won. By the way, Bowen, while I'm waiting for this idiot. when I do stand up do I try joke out or I put it on a voice note just off top of my head. Yep up Heather helps smooth that. and then I go through and underline what I need. It's the exact same Yeah. so funny you said that. It's great. And then I do it at a club, tape it and then go what I try to memorize I go, What did I miss heighten and brighten and then you go, this is this is what I this is what works, this part Mm, what you need. Go ahead like that. Well, no, I just, you know, I kind of do my own sort of research. So this is from you I don't know, someome of now shit You just said and I understood what you were talking about. It's not it's not a trchworthy thing? Yeah Yeah, okay, so I was stoned off my gourd last month on my podcast.ot. Yes, No I kid't. You were stoned really? Well yeah, yeah. no, but we were I was my friend Matt and I were just talking about like this concept of like pushing past like a feeling of cringe cringiness, like pushing past this feeling of like Embarrassment or humiliation or shame. like RuPaul has this saying like your fear of looking stupid is holding you back. And he like says this to so many of the drag quueens on the show. He's like, your' fear of looking stupid is holding you back. I'm like that, Yeahah' it just applies so many things And I was I was saying that we were I was making this larger point about how SNL is like, the biggest arena for looking stupid for like trying out an idea that you think is brilliant and it is like all week, it's this idea that has been great and then it fucking bombs on live television and you have to like You got you got to develop your coping mechanisms faster or else you're going to go crazy Yes. So that's that that's the context it bombs. It makes you in the middle of your're thinking, How is this not working? What are we doing wrong? Yeah, Eone loved Everyone loved this, but like you never know and it's had to be Yeah. It's weird no kills it read through and vice versa. and it's the opposite live on air You know We I think Phil and I and Victoria used to say we're just clowns and really think of ourselves as clowns, you know, because they can get high fllut. these sophisticated comedians who are commenting on society you now. So you know, Put a dress on me, put a wig, put me in a big diaper. I was in a big diaper once with Matthew Brodwick and the sketch bomb. We were bare chested in giant diapers with bonnets on and it played a head silence. And then the commercial break. This is my first season. We walk by the bleachers, we kind of trying to wave to the audience as they look away You know they're like fuck you. Yeah, you they're like, we It's like if you're not You know, I mean, do you have sketches in your head that are you feel like are too far or not ready or that are sort of fantasy if I could get that to work You know playl guitar kid. Yeah But you know, funnily enough, I like I've always wanted to write like a Yacht rock sketch or something. like Musical here we go. Musical thing, but like, I don't know. like it's just not that seems that's not even like I can see it. it's just I feel like there's just I've got a million steps to that. But what you're saying is so ' so real. It's this thing of like, this is what this is what I mean by SNL being the cringe the most cringe worthy place in show business. It's like it is you need to learn how to push past that embarrassment or else you will you'll die. Yeah pull your next good idea and go Yeah exactly. And this is this is the beauty of comedy is that it's no one agrees on what There's no universal definition of what funny. Yeah. And that's that's that's the amazing thing about it. There's like not No one agrees. and for something to be funny, all it has to be is funny to two people. That is the smallest unit of measurement comedy and that's all that matters. L the political shit that gets attached to it doesn't really matter