Lions Tour Contenders and Tournament Awards

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I don't know what I ended up doing with it. No, it's not whatever you think it is. No. Yeah, my back hurts. Carrying this pod. If you were still in an England camp, an England men's camp, would you be a guy doing a TikTok? I'll probably participate, I'll probably want to lead it . And I went to sit there and then Meg Jones was like, get out. I played well last week. Why am I like why have I been dropped? Like what's going on here? And then on Thursday you put the team up and I'm in it. I'm like, well I've not run any reps with the boys this week, but it did work. Oh you've got these massive strides . And then you've got to tackle her while she's running, you're like, oh. And like she's gonna leap over me, I swear to God, she's actually gonna jump over me. Who was MVP last night? Uh Ruby? This episode is brought to you by Royal London, found in partner of the first ever British and Irish Lions women's tour . Right, couple of things. The first one is you may or may already have not noticed or noticed the lack of Ruby. Where is she? Anyone? Well, Ruby , no, no, she's not here. Why? Ironically, and true to form, she missed her flight this morning, and so she has not been able to join me. But I am pleased to say we have a guest on the show, and now he's been promoted to guest hosts. So actually, he's just our host. I am delighted to be joined by former England International, former British and Irish Lions Rugby World Cup 2019 runner-up. What else have you done? That's about it . It's Jonathan Joseph, everyone. Thank you very much. Very happy to be here. Thank you. Lovely intro. You're welcome. I've been working on it. Can you tell? Yeah. Practice that hard out, yeah, for sure. And also later on we will have fresh off the plane, Delaney Burns. The same plane that Ruby maybe could have been on but wasn't Delaney Burns will be joining us shortly. But first, JJ. Hello. How have you been? Great. Freshly retired. How's the body? Body is okay. I've lost 12 kg in about nine months. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? It's a good thing, I guess, but it's uh a few of my former teammates have made it quite clear I look not great. But um no, I'm good. I'm happy. Uh playing a lot of golf. Started my own little rugby skills academy last week, which I'm really excited about. What's it called? It's called J J Skills Academy. Did that take you as long as my introduction? Honestly, how good? JJ Skills Academy. It's like I've got a ring to it. Um so started that. Um, really happy with how that's going and hopefully how it ends up. Uh, hopefully, it's gonna be something good, and then I did some coach with the Bucks team at Bath this year. We won the double. Really really. Yeah, we did it. For the first time ever. Nah. I don't want to say that, but no, it's good. It was a good it was a nice first year out of retirement. Let's put it that way. Yeah. So some people might think it's a bit random that you're here on our For the Love of Rugby women's podcast talking about the women's game, but actually it's not and I slid into your DMs a few weeks ago. You always used to do that as well. What have what have you been up to? Tell us why it's not so random. It's not so random because I have started to do some analysis on my social platforms um around the game whether it's men, women um in terms of things that I'm seeing. And I guess the idea behind it was to I guess educate people around some of the more intricate details of maybe an attack play or defensive play, and hopefully shine some light on you know the really small bits of detail that people might miss when watching a game live. And so far, because I I we spoke about it, I think that's something that is missing in a women's game. And rightly or wrongly, like it's just a different uh it's different people, it's different fan culture, different reasons for watching the game, and actually some people either don't care, don't understand and they just go to rugby for a lovely day out, which I am a fan of 'cause I love a good day out. But actually what you're doing is different. Um how has it been received? No, it's gone really well, better than expected. Um so yeah, I think it's something that I'll keep rolling with. And then in terms of what you said, I think you're right. I think in the women's game potentially there is a different audience. But I think at some point it might get to that level where okay, actually great day out, but actually what am I actually watching now? Like what what should I be looking out for and things like that? So hopefully it helps um grow the game in in a positive way. Yeah, if anything I see it as a as anot her branch. It's just like another way to get people in, get people understanding and then using your platform which is potentially a different audience bringing eyes on women's gate and you think, oh actually that's that's that makes sense now. Or even the way you want you um explain it to make people understand it in a different way and different context. So yeah, I'm all for it. Thank you. So talking about this year's Guinness Women's Six Nations, what have you made of it so far? It's been great. Um you know I've loved watching England, albeit they've pretty much dominated every single game. Um, but they've been amazing, they've not taken a step backwards. Obviously, they've had a few injuries, you know. Uh a lot of the girls have got pregnant, so they're out of the team as well. So for them to have kept their standard or you could argue they've even taken another step forward in the right direction, um, it's been great. I'd I'd probably argue that first game they probably weren't quite clicking, which I think at the start of every campaign it's hard to get to really get going but they still won the game very comfortably and then they've just made loads of strides going forward to the game obviously yesterday. Okay. So we'll get a bit more into the detail later, particularly when Delaney Burns joins us as well. Makes sense. But first we have a newsflash. And if Ruby was here, it would say her name on the script to say, Shauna, do you have anything you want to share? What have you been up to this weekend? You weren't in Bordeaux, what were you doing? And then I would give this newsflash answer. So can you do your own version of that? Just basically ask me a question to allow me to answer some sort of news. Okay. Um Shauna, um, do you have any news for us this week? Oh, JJ, funny you should mention it. I have major news. My body is no longer my own. I have been in pain for many many weeks and I can't wait for October to arrive because I will push out a baby. Oh wow, yay, congratulations! Yay, it's so lovely and wonderful. You just wait. Oh, it's the best. And everyone's that I I am committed to being as honest as possible with it. I'm like, I hate it so far. It's um it's not for me. I feel about sixty percent of myself on a good day and everyone's so nice. but it'll all be worth it. But let me tell you, I don't want to hear that. Because I I know I know. You know when you know something, but you don't need to hear it, it doesn't make it better. Oh no. If anything it gets worse. That's what I want to hear. So I should be grateful for today . Okay, personal headlines done. Back to the rugby headlines. Ruby isn't here, as we've mentioned, once or twice before, but she isn't here to give a roundup, which means I'm so sorry people, I'm gonna have to give it a go and I am far less entertaining than Ruby. You've got 30 seconds. Let's go. England beat France to win their fifth grand slam on the bounce. Ah, this is their eighth six nations win in the rope. I'm actually rubbish at this. I'm so sorry, you guys. Makes it 38 consecutive games. And I'm not gonna look down and look at my notes. Ireland get a win over Scotland to secure third place at record crowd at the Aviv Stadium over 31,000. I knew that one didn't I Italy get another win over Wales Wales go home with a wooden spoon Italy finish in fourth place how are we doing for time one second oh bang done well done really really good. We have our strengths and weaknesses on this pod. We'll dive into the rugby shortly, but first tell me where did you watch the game on Sunday? I I was actually just at home. I was at home uh with my wife and daughter, they were playing with some like new dinosaur type things on the floor. And I was watching the game. Thoroughly engaged they were then? Yeah, they they loved it. Um but did she get the dinosaurs like play rugby against the game? Yeah like tackle each other, yeah. So it's good. As long as it as long as it goes in. It goes in. Um coming from the men's side, you always had access to rugby. Am I right in saying that? Yeah. How would you reflect now on the opportunities and chances for your daughter if she wanted to play rugby that they are there, particularly the fact that she can just watch England Red Roses on BBC. Like how far the women's game has come over the last 10 years is it's been brilliant and to be on the mainstream TV and you know, all the girls are all over social media and and they're on their platforms, and you know, a young little girl that's that's playing rugby has the opportunity to see what what these people are like. And we spoke about a little bit about it before the recording is the accessibility of the players. Do you notice that big difference? And are are the girls setting a standard, or is it just like it's okay, it's different the girls are just more accessible because it's what they enjoy doing on socials versus the boys who aren't? I think the girls definitely came in and changed the game in terms of that. I think from my background I was always told or we were always told through my England career it was like we're all sort of the same and we have to all you know the media messages was like we all say the same thing and it was all sort of same same same and it was always like we're in this team and we're all the same person almost and now you can see that the that's that's changing even in the men's game as well that's changing now you're seeing way more profiles out there so I think the women started doing this and you can see just what it does to the sport in terms of the fan engagement, you know, the amount of girls you see in the in the audience wanting to be the girls on the field and things like that. Is it is brilliant and it's what the game needs for it to grow, like to celebrate the individual themselves. So yeah, great. Kudos to him. If you were still in an England camp, an England men's camp, would you be a guy doing a TikToks? So I'll probably participate, I probably won't lead it . I'm not very um I'm not creative at all. So anything I would think would be really. That's TikTok. You have to be creative. No, I would I would join in, but I wouldn't create Who do you think what about Ant An Anthony Watson? Yeah he's a yeah he's a TikTok guy I reckon. You think? Not really. Would he be dancing? Jack Knoll, Jack Noel would have been back in the day. Jack Knoll definitely. Mako maybe as well. Mako's got some dance moves really believe it or not yeah okay the big one then the tournament decider the grand slam decider england versus france 2843 to England and we are joined fresh off the plane by our starting England red rose lock the lady birds woo the lady welcome to the show the first question obviously how are you feeling? I am feeling great. Fresh liar. Fresh bodied, fresh mind , fresh liver. Okay . Um no, it was yeah, really good, but celebrations were equally as good. So what time were you on a plane this morning? Um that I don't actually know what time genuinely I knew that all I knew was that we had to be on the bus at like seven fifteen and that's that's why I didn't need to worry about anything after that. Do you also note there's like a a regular person missing from the hosting staff who was also in the same place as you? In fact in the same club, I think. Maybe. And here she was. You you made it here and she didn't. Just saying. How were celebrations last night? Ing yeah, they were good. Really good. Um for a Sunday evening as well. Surprisingly lively. Yeah. The French love it. No, surprisingly lively. Have you ever had a Sunday night like big blowout? Yeah. Can't really remember to be honest. But yeah. I definitely would have. Who was MVP last night? As As uh Ruby? It's worth it. It's her absence was worth it. That's her. She was carrying. No, she was carrying. JJ, you've lifted a few six nations trophies in your time. Any big celebrations that stood out? No. Just all equally well that means yes, I'm just not allowed to tell you. Not really appropriate stories. Not what's appropriate. Just like it's just not necessary for the audience that you've got on the We are a family show now. Um like everyone does. Yeah. And no laws are ever broken or anything like that. No. Too many cameras around these days. That's true, that''ss tru truee.. That One of the first things was like, right, go get changed. We got bad ta go get changed before you leave the set go get changed. Get that rose away from your body. Get that rose away from your body. So when you win any tournament, six nations, maybe World Cup, is there a plan? Do you just go out? Is you got social sex? I feel like it on BBC coverage yesterday spoke about Meg being chief so social officer. Yeah, I mean like Meg definitely leads the charge like immediately, like the second we were in the change rooms, like she stood she was stood up with the table at one point and then like crunched a beer and then literally just kinda had her hand out and I was like, oh I know what that means. Get another beer. Um plus no she uh definitely leaves the charge. But um we just kind of it was one of those like messages in the group chat like it had already been pre-planned. So we had um there was a hotel like further down from ours, um, with like this top floor kind of bar area for like it was like a family and friends sort of bar sort of vibe. So um yeah it was like a couple minutes walk from the hotel. So it's basically like this is where we need to go. This is how long it's open for after that. It's kind of like game on because it was only op it was only open until midnight. And obviously, I was way too early to go to bed. Do you mean? I love that you think it's game on, whereas I'd think game over. I can go to I can go to bed now. No. No, they're probably I think there was a few girls that were a bit more sensible than than I. JJ, how's it for you with um England team management? Is there a an is there an official social social sex? Yeah. We had we had official social sex. Um it was you it was Danny Kerr and Jamie George, I think, predominantly from memory. But they would always plan it well in advance. Like a good Yeah. But they'd always do stuff in the week as well, like um we'd always we'd have like a talent show in the week or we'd or we'd get in like one time we had the guy off um the chase. We had the beast off the chase come in and just do a quiz with us. Like just random stuff like that in the week just to keep boys I don't know I mean with fresh but entertained. Yeah we've something away from rugby I guess. But they were really good. We did loads of like fun stuff actually in camp. Yeah. We've got like what we call a bond night, so then each week it would be something like that. So like last week we were in five groups and then each group had to buy a charity shop outfit for like the elected person in another group that was walking it. Um and we had to buy facadia. So we went um for like like Chris put in the group chat she was like this is the inspo and it was like Destiny's child, so it's like low rise jeans, like um we just went for it, it was so good. So I think Maud's got it for the her vlog, so you know Maud's vlog guys. Maud's vlog. But um yes, Sally obviously just like eats it up. She loves it. Like the talent, the walk, like the death drop. She's giving it attitude. She's like, oh she loves it. I honestly I was a little bit irritated because so I was the one that ended up buying it just because I was the one that had the time to like go. And I was like putting things in the group chat like what about this? What about this and everyone's like yeah buy that buy that buy that like thinking like oh it's gonna look she actually like nailed it like it actually kinda looked really good like very two thousand like early two thousands but like it actually looked really good and we were like shock of course okay so Danny, take us through your journey of six nations um and the actual rugby bit because you wasn't in camp from the beginning. Were you in any earlier camps? Uh no, I've not like I wasn't in the January camp. I was like doing like at Bears we had basically mimicked kind of like their top ups so we had done a bit of like what, you know, burner and Millie and all that were doing anyway in terms of top up wise, but I hadn't And when you say top ups you mean the the runs, the reps? Yeah, yeah, like the conditioning s side of things um and yeah hadn't been in any of it bless me but then um yes Scotland Week um Scotland Week came around and obviously like unfortunately owl hurt her shoulder. So myself and Haiti came in because I'll and Moz as well. So Moz got injured that game as well. Bless her. So we got then called up for myself and Haiti . But I got called on the Tuesday n ight. Um 'cause I think that's when they kinda confirmed that Al probably wasn't gonna be able to like Alex Map play. Yeah. Yeah. And then um so yeah, call Tuesday night and then Hayes was like, Oh can you like, would you be alright to come in um like training with our Matthews being being out at the minute and I was like yeah cool like when do you need me and he's like you f tomorrow and I was like yeah because you've got a job haven't you yeah but they always say to be fair they always say like oh you know if you can get the time off work and I was like I'll quit. I'll quit what do you mean I'll quit? I'll quit and find another one. What are you on about? Like I do love my job but don't be silly. Um yeah and try not to call on the phone. I'm like yeah like I'll see what I can do. Like I'll move my schedule around. I've just text my boss and I'm like, well, you say yes or you don't. You win something. I'm gonna be there. Like Yeah, so then I had to go in for a meeting on Monday at work before then going in uh Monday afternoon and as I was getting into my meeting, Mitch like Mitch calls me. I'm thinking like tell him to wait. No, we're getting opening. I opened it. Whoa! Did you book Have you scheduled scheduled this call? Mr. Mitchell? No. Sir. Jonathan. What do you mean? No. Um but yeah, and then he um he's like, Hey, good morning, hey I'm gonna do the accent. How you doing? Yeah, not too bad, how are you you? What do want? Like tell me, am I in? Am I not? What's this small talk for? What we're doing. And I actually thought it was gonna be like, oh, I just need you to clear your schedule like for the weekend, I'd like need you to be a traveling reserve this weekend. Cause I didn't know about um I didn't her hamstring or anything like that. I'd watched the game and I saw her come off, but she didn't she got subbed off. Yeah, I looked like walk off. She looked her face looked at the case I thought that she looked annoyed, so I thought it was like maybe she just thought she was getting an And I was like, I'd be annoyed too . Um and then and then yeah, he was like, Yeah, so um you'll be starting this weekend and calling the line out. I was like, oh, I sick s so good. I was like and I literally didn't even speak. He just spoke and then like thirty what felt like five years went by and I was like, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. But in my literally the first thing I thought was like, I need to know these linears because I literally hadn't run in anything on Thursday. I was doing the running on the side. You know when they do like 15 on 15, you got a few extra. I know about the running on the side. So I was with um I was with the SSC, I was with Connor just doing my running on the side. So I didn't actually go in any reps whatsoever, didn't get to watch anything, had to watch it back on Huddle, and then I was like, I need to learn these so quick. But I was also kind of glad that I was like calling rather than like having to react to someone else c,all because I was like, I I not only do I have to learn these line outs but having to them react to someone else call them is so stressful. So I was like, at least like I know what you're gonna do what I'm gonna say, yeah, what I'm gonna do. Um and to be fair, like with Abby being at Burrs, like this is obviously like her second pregnancy, and I called at Burrs when she was pregnant the first time. So I've like got on a decent bit of experience now. So I wasn't like too stressed about that part. I was just like, I don't know what any of these are. I don't know what any of these are. And I've got I'd have got four minutes to learn them . But yeah. Good times. Does it JJ, does it blow your mind that Delaney was literally at work one day and in England camp the next? Yeah, well we we'll talk in off camera about this. Like I yeah, it does blow your mind and yeah I don't know I don't really I don't know how you do it I can't like it doesn't work in my brain and and even like you saying then about like you're going in to start for your country and you've not run one line out, and yet you're gonna have to call the line out and run it all in the game is pretty nuts. Fair play to you. Went well yesterday as well. Yeah, well no, to be fair, Lily was back calling um on yesterday. She took that over, which um like obviously I do love calling I really enjoyed calling against Wales in Italy but um it was nice to not have to think about that as well. This is all right. But um we did go through obviously 'cause like unfortunately in the second round back row I feel like we've had every injury possible. Yeah, there's been a lot of time. Like there's just been there. Just left, right and centre. So um we did have to we did go through kind of every well, we tried to go through every scenario yesterday with terms of swap-ins because of how like what's happened. Sometimes yeah, we just don't prep for things and then like even um Italy week like m Mad s hurt her ankle in the week and then Chris all of a sudden is getting her getting her first and steps in. They're getting their first like getting her first cat which she deserved and I was so happy to see her get her first cat, but yeah, like just so random and then it was like oh Chris has been um like she's been doing the Italy line out so she's been calling that so she's like oh no I've got to learn like I know the English ones, but now she's got to be put in like a slot and being like okay now you need to learn these really really quickly. But um I think everyone yeah everyone just like the girls have been really good everyone's really good at just having that patience, like if you need to do, if we need to do three walkthroughs in the day, we'll do three walkthroughs in the day because ultimately, like, performance wise, it's what we need. We need it to yeah, need to gel. And yeah, I think evidently paid off quite well. Um, JJ, you would have watched a game with beady eyes and with analytical eyes as well. What's your what's your summary of the game? Be nice. You don't have to be nice. No. Um no, England obviously England are very, very good. They're a very tough team to beat. I think there were a few moments in the game which I thought might have swayed things a little bit. But I think ultimately the first 20 minutes France piled on a lot of pressure and I think England did really well to manage that momentum shift for them um and then come out of it and actually get a try. So I thought that twenty minutes was really good because they probably you probably ri didn't really have any of that for the other games the, four games previously. So that pressure, you absorbed it well and you came out on top. And then I'd say the third 20 minutes, they came back a little bit then in terms of bit of momentum. They were getting into the flow. The big ball carries were getting onto the ball and making some momentum there. So yeah, defensively was was very good, very sound. Was it like to play in it? Did it feel that like separate into the twenties? Yes. First 20 was pretty rough. Second third 20 pretty rough. I think everyone at halftime was like the first fi fteen minutes was like the longest. It felt like four years. But then like it was weird 'cause like yeah, I looked up at the time and it's like sixteen minutes. and then I looked up again, it's only twenty minutes I was like, Jesus Christ But then by the time I looked up the third time, it was like 39 minutes. So that yeah, that kind of second twenty just disappeared. But um yeah, like it was a a defence was obviously a massive thing, like obviously people people had said about our um a defence and we um we were pretty hard on ourselves this week especially around like defence because of the fact like well it was two both Italy and Wales got both bonus points yeah and it was I think what was it like I think it's been ten years since a non-top four team has got a bonus point against well six nations wise obviously France happened, but it was the first time Italy ever got one against England and the first time Wales had ever got one against England England. But uh and we m Ruby and I did speak about it on the pod and it's like is there is there chinks in the armor, is there we weak points? But then obviously uh we know that would have been you'd have concentrated hard on that that week. Yes, because of the previous two games, but also because it's France. I think we yeah, like we just knew what w we were coming up against. Like when it comes to France, you know what we know what to expect. We know that this is gonna be the toughest game of the nations and like they're really gonna like they've got massive ball carriers,. Um their offload game is like really, really good. Their Jouet is incredible. Done so many times. I was like, oh, I literally, and one point I'm making like, I was like, that was such a solid tackle look up. I'm like, oh , it's gone, and I'm like, well now I I'm like, oh now I've got run back. So um yeah, but we did we didn't know what the you know, what was coming and I think we prepared for it ri as best we could and you know, evidently like did did put out a bet way better defensive shift. I think a great example of that is I think it was the last minute of the game. The game was already won and France have the ball and the line speed you brought like as a defensive line. You you force an error from them. The lines people through the roof. Like all of you sprinting off the line, forcing error. Um and that was seventy ninth minute game was already done. So it just shows that mindset and credit to you girls. On that, JJ, you've obviously played against France men a fair few times. Is there comparisons between uh men's and women's teams, French teams? Massively, yeah. Um like you said earlier, the offloading game, the Jouet, playing through the line. I think they're they're so dangerous because they're so unpredictable. Um they have some freakish athletes uh in both teams and once they get in behind you and they get the offloading going, they're really hard to stop. They're so hard to stop. But they're so fun to play against as well. I love playing against France. Especially I remember just running into Medusa Fowl Raclo. The noise and the frozen. No, sorry. I every time I stood up and I was like, 38 like I'm like in defense. And I literally looked up and I swear to God every single time I she ran at me and I just thought I went full speed bump by the end of it. I was like, I can't do this. Every time she's so she's a such an athl ete. Like she's so she's six foot one. Yeah. And I was oh she's an incredible athlete. But I was like, go away. Cause even uh when when she opens up her legs for the run, she's like a like a word. She's got these massive strides. And then you've got to tackle her while she's running. You're like, oh. And like she's gonna leap over me. I swear to God. She's actually gonna jump over me. Oh. I just went so I just, yeah, at one point I just went so low. I was like genuinely tapping ankles because I was like, this is all I've got. And I'm like, please don't offer the floor. Please. Yeah, and then don't I'm hoping for that double tackle because I'm like, I've got nothing. Selling your car can be super simple. 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We were locked in we were locked in we were locked in um No, it was really, it was really cool. Like at one point, I think the moment I kind of realised how loud it could get was um was actually unfortunately their first try, which credit to them was an incredible try, like off the back of like really quick try. Oh, the most classic French try, like really quick counter-attack, little in out, like but as I was running back, it would I've just never heard anything louder. I like it at one point I was like, am I like, is this noise or is this in my head like I don't understand what's going on like every time I took a step it like got louder I was like what is happening but yeah obviously the closer they got to the trilogue and the louder it got and I was like as much as I was like disappointed that we just like conceded a try. It was just really cool to hear that noise. Like really, really cool. I've never heard anything like it. So I was like, wow like even in like m like obviously I I'm lucky enough to get to see a lot of Bears games through work. Um and like we I think the big the most sold out game I've seen is obviously like Bristol Bath obviously is like a massive one. But then when South Africa played out um played against them, like um they sold out and even then I was like that's nowhere near the level of noise that I've just heard. It was so cool. That's cool. And when you like I love that for the h for the whole game, you're like, yeah, they scored a try, but I got to be a part like I got to be in here when they done it. You always want a home team to score Is there a part of you that thinks if like France obviously scored first, that'd be alright. We've got this. Oh , yeah. Like at no point did I think we haven't got this. We haven't got this. There wasn't there was never a like a doubt. Obviously it like there's obviously it does put a little bit of stress when they do score first, but uh equally part of the fun and games, right? It is part of fun I don't want to watch it if we just run them over. What would the messages be? So first try that they scored, what was the message under the post? So like the thing is we'd put in a really good defensive set, so we were like keeping that. It was more around like 'cause obviously that first try did come from like the counterattack. So it was it was about like our transition, how quickly can we transition? We need to be like quicker in that. And then um yeah, just like almost like a bit of like we need like we need to convert. We were so close to their trial line, we need to go and convert. And um after that we obviously that in that the last twenty minutes like we ended up really good with that. Um and then with our first try, so obviously burner scores we come and back and then it was Burner that was like, right, like let's not let don't let them react. Like don't let them come back sort of thing. And we didn't, which I think really kind of set the tone and like we we said so we've seen we scored in that thirtieth minute scored and then we scored again in like thirty-fifth 'cause we were like, right, let's like if we put another try in, we're like we're solid. We've like we've put a good base in for us. We've put them. And then we did, yeah, we did went and scored again. Oh yeah, that's good. I was like, oh if we just keep speaking it in, like honestly, it's like speaking . Yeah, it was like manifestation. If we just scroll one more time, we're in. I was like, okay, fine. Have you got a favourite try from the game? Um do you know what? I don't I actually can't remember any of the back's tries because it was like like one of them was from like it was a mall I'.m really sorry. We were like mauling. We were mauling and then like I look up and then I think Jess Gordon Yeah. I've just been like my feet are broken, like trodden on. I'm just like, Oh what's up, girls? I think um I'd probably just try and put your hair back in a ponytail again. Like strugg city, but um no, I can't to be I can't really remember the doc's gonna HA me though. The French one was good. I don't know the French one was good. Like the most memorable one for me was that. Like ours were really good. Like to be honest, burners I obviously remember because I was literally with her. Like I was to be fair, I didn't know I didn't touch. She was burner before. She was she was fine. Like I honestly like I thought she was gonna score before that and then I was like shocked that she didn't and I was like, Oh and then she went like bumped someone and then scored and I was like, that's pretty cool. But yeah, I feel I feel like half the time I didn't actually see because it was like from set piece or something, so I was like not anywhere near anything. As it should be. Yeah Yeah. First phase tries always good though. Nothing sweeter than bringing your head up from a scrum or a mall and just look ing over like you're dying and you just see a back whoops and trial light in the concede fifty meter line, bro. What about that? You just want to lay down and go on strike to just I was gonna say it got to a point where I was like, I am running, but I'm not. Like when I was running back for the um for that front tray. I was like, do I was like I actually think walking would have been quicker at that point. Uh mentioned Sadia. She tackled twenty-seven times. She's incredi bly crazy. She's crazy girl. She just hits things. And she does. I think she doesn't actually like attacking. She doesn't like carrying the ball. She just likes to defend and hit people. It's her favourite. No, but she's like pretty much every one of those was dominant as well. Um yeah, so like she's just she just knows where the ball's gonna I don't know how she does it. Like she just knows where it's going. It's like she knows before the French players know where it's going. So she's like lined someone up. Like nothing is scarier than like like playing against her, obviously if she plays at Loughborough and nothing is scarier than like knowing that Sad is coming for you because her line speed is incredible. And like the thing about Sard is like obviously you say like you're as fast as your slowest player, so you wanna go up toget her but Sally don't need to because she's gonna hit like so she didn't need to worry about it. But what I will say the best dominant tackle I thought yesterday was actually Lucy Packer on four. Did you see that? I actually did, yeah. Lucy Packer actually nails her. I was like, oh my god, I game was done for me. I was like, yeah, we're we're in, we're in. I was so energized. Been hit by Lucy a few times. And she gets up and she hates it. She's like, ah I'm like, Lucy, that was a sick tackle. But I shouldn't have to tackle. Yeah, but just foot has come round and she just nails it. I was like, sound, go on, baby girl. Yesterday was a bit different to how Mitch made his subs normally like it's this whole bomb squad thing you bring on the whole front row. But yesterday he didn't bring on Connie, Powell, and Liz Crate until literally like a few minutes before the end . How does that go down for the girls? Like d do they understand? And and I know your political answer is gonna be yes, of course you understand it's for the team, but that's tough. Look, no matter who you are. I was gonna say it doesn't matter who you are, that is like it is rough. But um yeah, like I don't really know what else to say other than like it it does like I they all have felt that like I know Liz would have felt that Connie would have felt that um but equally like at the end of the day they're probably like look it's Mitch it's Mitch's judgment and equally we're like we you know you can't really do anything from it. Yeah you you trust you trust him you trust him to make the right decision and um at the end of the day like we're really on the podium right yeah we're not really and also we're really big on like like the pillars so the people that you know aren't in that starting fifteen we're really big on the pillars doing d like doing the work to make sure like starting 15 are ready and then obviously the swap ins like you're always doing your bit everyone has a role and we're really like we do find it really important that everyone like even like TRs like the people that are running on the side and when they need to swap in. Like it is really like everyone is really important to that team. And we do make a massive effort to to make that a thing. And like, um, yeah, so I think it it doesn't matter who you are, like that it's always gonna be tough to only get a couple of minutes. But um there's like we do make sure everyone's like, no, this because even when like obviously I wasn't involved, I actually this is the first time I've played under Mitch actually realising that, but um like saw Mitch at the World Cup final, so I was like I'm like was in family and friends um through LARC and I saw like saw him and um I was like oh you know congratulations and even then he was like he was like you've been part of this build-up and I was like I was in camp like maybe six months ago. But thank you so much though. Thank you for including me. He was like, no, he's been part of this too. Like everyone that's been in cat like he is really big on that. Like everyone that has been involved has had an impact on the team and like how they got how like we got to winning, which I think is really important. And funny you should say you just reminded me the first time I came into contact with Mitch, I I was obviously long retired by then, he came to Quinn's camp for the day for whatever reason. And he just sort of like I was just walking down the stairs, he goes, Shauna. Like, I've never met this man before. Obviously, I know exactly who he is. He goes, Shauna, nice to see you. And I was like, Oh, hello, John. Nice to see you too. And he's like, No, mate, my name's Mitch. And then he was just like so friendly. And then he he said similar stuff, like you've been a part of this build-up and I was like, I think I wanna play for England again. I'm unretiring again. Again. I didn't want to say that. Okay. No. He is so he is he is lovely. Crazy man. Crazy man, honestly. He's crazy. But he is like he's just so personable. Like um he'll like even yesterday uh not yesterday, um Saturday for Captain's Run, like he obviously he has his usual place like so every everyone's so particular on where they sit in the bus and that was really hard to learn as well on my first game day. Oh yeah, I memorize it. Oh my god, yeah, so against Wales. And obviously like So did you have that Especially on game day? Not ri not massively. No. But I get it though. Do you? I went to sit um so on the bus where like the second set of stairs is and where like the toilet usually is. Like the first one, that's Amy Kane. That's Amy Kane. And I went to sit there. And then Meg J Meg Jones was like, get out. Like, no, like not rudely, but she was like, I wouldn't. And then rats, she was like, Oh no, sit on the one behind. Didn't mean Jess Breach and Zoe like Zoe Harrisons. And I was like, so I and Jess was like, ooh, and like really polite about it. She was like, no . And I was like, oh my god. And by this point, like a lot of people on the bus. And I was like, where can I sit down? I was like, please just let me sit down. Just sit in the toilet. I'll sit in the toilet. And then and then um and then Marley was like, Marley was like, Come sit here, come sit here, come sit next to me. You Rosie usually sits here, but obviously, Rosie comes sit here, and I was like, Thank you so much. I'm panicking so much, and then I had to work it out. So now my seat is like stairs on the left-hand side, two in front. That's where my seat is. I'm not particular about it, but people are, so I was like, that's just where I'm gonna sit because no one else wants to sit there. I don't get like just leave me to that. Stress. Because I there's a thing about me, I don't like to have routine like I actively stay away from routines. Because then if you can't have it y it gets on your head. So I just get on the bus lost because I like to change seats and then I'll just go which seats are available but yeah on the wrong side of any cocaine seat before. So I regret that too. Um Delaney was talking about Mitch and how wacky he is crazy. Joe, who's the best coach you've ever had and and why? It's a really hard question. Um, I've had a lot of brilliant coaches and all for like different reasons. Um Guzzy was great for me personally in terms of defensive. Yeah, I think like he was a great defensive coach. I had him at England and he was the defence coach for me personally as a 13. Like he he'd review every training session and like individually clip up like everyone's work. Like we w weren't even doing defense, it could have been an attack drill, but like he would clip up every bit and it wouldn't even be like you're doing this wrong, you're doing that right. It was more like oh I kind of like what you've done here. Can we talk through it? Or oh I'm what I'm not sure about the so it's like a discussion as well. Like I I thought his coaching methods were really good, particularly with me. Um Lee Blackett's great. I mean I didn't have them for very long, but I have conversations with him and I think he's a brilliant attack coach and I'd say probably Mike Ford as well. Back in twenty fourteen, fifteen at Bath, we um that was probably we were probably the first team that started bringing that rugby league sort of attacking shape like fixing players and running inside shoulders and things and um he brought that along so that was a good year. On the red roses we spoke about thirty eight wins in a row uh Meg on the BB Meg Jones on the BB C in her post match speech she called spoke about keep on raising the floor. How how do you do that in a red roses camp that is so successful? How do you s do you set yourself a little goals? Like how do you keep wanting to be better? Knowing that I say no matter what you do, but again it's been well documented the ups and downs and the turns of the squad of injuries of availability, pregnancies, how many people have been turned around it and turned over because of it? So this has been a rough tournament, but it's been ones of of highs and lows and mixtures. But how do you keep raising the bar as a team? Raising the floor, actually. No, she said . But like um well I think like we've been asked before, like we actually had a conversation about this in in camp the other day 'cause sometimes during like interviews and stuff you get asked if you're like do you get complacent with winning and stuff like that? No, like as much as as much as I we are in a very obviously very good routine of winning, like winning is a habit and we want to maintain that habit, like it doesn't get boring winning. Why would we get bored of winning? Like No, I do quite like the silverware actually. No, sorry, I'm not bored of being the best in the world. Oh, clucket. Cluck it. Cluck it. Um but yeah, like I mean this tournament has obviously been a massive test, but equally I think it's shown the depth that English rugby has because we have had to bring in like under twenties and and um she was expecting to run out for a under twenties cap and all of a sudden she's she got her first under twenties cap and then two weeks later got her first ink like senior caller and we were like sorry what um but yeah like the turnover the turnover has been has been a lot and there's been a lot of debuts but equally like that is that's so good that we are still still able to go and win a tournament. And I think also like we also had our goals set because we wanted to be the first team that wins a world cup and then goes and wins a six a grand slam at this like literally the well within the same yeah within the same year. Um and we went and did that. That was a that was a really big, really b ig point for us. Um and just like maintaining that standard, like not letting it drop off, like we we were hard on ourselves after Wales and we were hard on ourselves after Italy because we were like this isn't this isn't what we expect from our defence. We wanna be better, we wanna be um dominant. We look at all sorts of like we look at all sorts of stats in terms of like um percentages around dominant tackles and things like that and compare them to the World Cup 'cause in the World Cup they were like we're w we're like first in everything.. Okay And that dominance was starting to slip a little bit and we were like, we're not letting that happen, especially like we want to be that best for everything. Um but yeah, we just really like just you know, foot on throat, like don't take don't take your foot off the pedal like we want to keep keep building. All of the um what do they call it? The metaphors? The metaphors. All of the metaphors. All the metaphors. JJ, you complete external outsider watching it from your T V at home, how how do you think they should how should how do you think they should do it and continue to do it? What else should they be looking at? Like to keep raising the floor? Keep raising the floor, yeah, I think it's a really interesting one because this England team is so good and ten of the players could be having off games and I still think they win the game. Do you know what I mean? Like I think they're that good. So it's how do you keep the individual for me it,'s about the individual. How do you keep the individu al motivated to constantly want to improve when they know that probably probably sixty percent of them is gonna be enough to win a game? So how do you squeeze like every bit of juice out of that individual? And that's something for the coaches and that's probably something also that has to be internal. Yeah. I don't know like do you have people who are your biggest drivers there? Obviously you've got your coaches but then I imagine Meg is a is a massive Meg's a massive one on that. She's very big on the like being the best version of you and Bern is quite like big on that as well. Like she she brings that back up at bears as well, like being the best version of you to be the best version of like us. Yeah. Um because I think it's it's a pride thing as well, like when you're wearing that shirt like you know rose on your chest like it is a pride thing you don't want it to be um oh like we're sixty like we're gonna w we're gonna win so we're putting like let's save ourselves like that's not that's not the case and also you're all you are always competing for that shirt so and because there is such depth and there's so many like so many contenders for like your position and so many incredible players that that is that is kind of one of the motivations in itself is like just to be playing the shirt is the privilege because you were in the you know, in amongst so many incredible players. So then trying to s you're you're staying on top of that. So you're being the best version yourself to make sure you actually stay in that shirt 'Cause otherwise someone who is you know equally as impressive within their like rugby ability will then come and take that shirt if you're not if you're not on it. Yeah. Which that's it is a good driver, yeah. Keeps everyone honest. Keeps everyone honest. JJ, let's pretend Delaney's not here for a moment. Delaney closure is. Um so WXV Autumn series is coming up. That'll be the next tournament. England will play Canada and New Zealand in England. Do you see that winning streak being threatened anytime soon? I actually don't. I'll be honest. Yeah, we're not bored of winning everyone else's. Yeah . Everyone else is bored No, what I'm looking forward to though is I think I think England will win, but more of a contest. So like we got that against France for for bits of the game for sure. Um I just want to see I want to see this England te am pushed a little bit harder. Cause that's that that's that's why I watch sport. Like I'm I'm not a diehard bar fan, I'm not a diehard England men's fan, England women's fan. Like, yes, they're my teams and I want them to win, but I want to see a contest and then I want to see those teams win at the end. I want it I want it to be close. I wanna not know what's gonna happen. Delaney, do you equally see as as a team, as a group of um rugby players, do you wanna be pushed more? Would you like to be pushed more or whatever? We'll just win? We'll just win and not swim. I think like um obviously we we wanna still like even regardless, like we want to be able to put fifty points on, you know, second in the world, third in the world. Like we still want to be winning by a lot. But um yeah, I think Yeah, a bit of like a bit of something something is is always is always nice. Like yeah, a little bit of something back. Push me, push me back. Push me back. Yeah. Um like a little bit of grit and like it does it definitely a win feels better when it is like a lot like when you have to grasp after obviously like there's the emotion of like we just want a grand slam and everything like that. But I do find that a win when it is closer, it does it just feels better. Like we obviously don't want it to be close. We're gonna still drive that we're gonna take every team and like put fifty points on them every single time and drive them into the floor. But yeah, like it just it does feel a bit nicer. 'Cause just a bit of work on it. Yeah. I also really enjoyed what you just said that you want to put fifty points on world number two, which is currently New Zealand. And I wish Ruby was in the room right now. Because she would be like Ruby. Well us you're never gonna put 50 points on us. I'm like all right fine you wait to walk over girl it'll just it'll just happen. Glenny thank you so much for joining us. Before you go, how heavy is the metal? My neck is so sore. No, my neck is so sore. So heavy. So heavy. Can I really heavy? Yeah, of course you have. Oh put it on back. No, don't want to put it on because that's just rude. Oh that's so scrap. It's so scratched. I don't know what I ended up doing with it. Did you take it out with you last night? No. We weren't allowed to wear roses, but we were allowed to wear those. I was like kind of say number number seven on it. Have they got like the wrong sport? No, they've just got they've just it's Sardia's medal. It's just pure s yeah, don't look at the bug. The bug's covered in squat. I really don't know what I did with it. I know there was a long period of time where I have what cleaned it, but there was a long period of time where it was just in my mouth The cool thing to do now is Thank you. Um we're gonna leave you and let you go back to go back to go home. Go home and go to bed . Attention all passengers . The Uber ride for Mark and Jamal's romantic weekend will depart in four minutes from platform six. Your ride comes with a rolling countryside sunset view and a table seat, ideal for playing FTSE beneath . Thank you for booking your tickets on Uber . Trains on Uber Some follow the noise. Bloomberg followls the money. Because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion-dollar swings, there's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at bloomberg.com . Why go small when you can go grand? Meet the new Vauxhall Grandland Griffin. Striking alloys, sleek black roof, heated front seats, and 10-inch touchscreen. Everything you need for life on the move. Grand on style, grand on tech, grand on value. And during the Vauxhall sales event, get a grand off the new Grand Land Griffin or any other new Vauxhall on top of all other offers. Search Vauxhall Car offers. Offer to private individuals. £1,000 including VAT saving on new car orders between 15th to 31st of May must be registered by 30th of June 2026. 18 plus TNT supply . So basically Shorna, Mitsubishi Electric for the last nine months has supported this podcast, therefore supported a lot of women's rugby. We love that hair, we live for it, we breathe it. And now they're gonna take their parallel potential to the next stage. The lovely Sally has joined us here from Missabushi Electric and Rugby Player at Erling Trailfinders, and you're a trailfinder in another program, the Parallel Potential Program. Hello. So I think having a big name like Mitsubishi Electric involved in women's rugby, um especially a game that probably doesn't have as much visibility as it should as, it deserves right now. Um having such a big name from a player's perspective is really cool because it shows me, it shows us that we have longevity, we have support, we have people like rooting for us, which is really cool. Um and then also from like a business point of view, hopefully other businesses see that, see that people really do want to support and invest in the growth of the game and hopefully more jump on board. Last week it was announced that you've partnered with the PW and the RPA. What does that mean for the PW and and what can people see? Yeah, I think it just means like a lot more visibility, a lot more growth, um, which yeah is obviously really big for the game, really big for us as players. And as I said, like it's a sport that I think with especially the um exciting season that we've had so far. It's a sport that's really earned that, that really deserves that. So hopefully, yeah, we just continue on the trajectory we're going on right now. Sally, we've already spoken about that parallel potential isn't isn't a brand new thing. You are living and breathing it yourself alongside Mitsubishi Electric and E Ling Trailfinders. Yes, this announcement with the PWR and the RPA is a brand new thing, but the parallel potential is isn't brand new. It has been running. You are living, breathing proof of that. So tell us you are a person of the corporate world of Metspish Electric and working in external comms, but also a rugby person. And in in my brain they're two very different people because they like you have your normal friends and you have your rugby friends. So what's it like for you living, breathing, doing it? Yeah. I think for me personally, um well, to work two careers, like flexibility and like understanding of how a sports person's timetable can look a bit different is like a massive thing for balancing like a parallel career basically. Um so it helps for me that my team that I work with, and Mitsubishi Electric are so flexible and understanding of that. And it means that I don't really have to separate the two into like I have to focus on this and I have to focus on this in two different, like, completely different aspects of my life. Um and that like flexibility between when I get my work done or the trust that they give me to just allow me to be responsible enough and be understanding enough to be able to get everything done um is what enables me to well put parallel potenti al into practice really. For anybody who wants to know more about parallel potential and Mitsubishi Electric, click on the link in our description . This episode is brought to you by Royal London, a founding partner of the first ever British and Irish Lions Women's Tour. That tour's happening in 2027 in September down in New Zealand, and we've been talking about each week who might make it on that plane. This week we're gonna talk about centres and just like magic, we've got one of England's best male centres in the room. JJ, can you tell us what we're looking for in the centre? Yeah, so a good defender, someone can tackle very well, um the link player between your turn and your outside backs and potentially a bit of go forward in the middle. Nice, easy. And a very good communicator. Easy, isn't it in that part ? Okay, who from this year's Guinness Women's Six Nations would you potentially put in contention? My first pick would be Meg Jones, obviously. Um I think she's had a great campaign. I mean, I think she's been great for so long, but I think particularly picking up captain C and she's a player that I see improvements week on week with her. Um, and I think she's got a mentality that is someone you definitely want to take on a line tour. Yeah. My second pick , Helena Rowland, I actually really like watching her play at 12. I actually love the game being played with a second distributor at 12 and I think the more and more she's exposed to playing at twelve, I think that could be her position. Because there's a a part where if you are more versatile in the back line, you're more likely to be on that plane if someone goes down. It's a long way to ship someone else out. You definitely want players that can cover many positions, yeah. So add that into the basket, yeah. Yeah. I'd go Eve Higgins of Ireland, who's uh inside centre, and she's one of the people who just does the basics well. She's tops the stats for like high ball catches too. Um and she's an opportunist. She just runs through and actually the opportunist comes into my my my second pick as well. But it's just like doing the basics well, hard crash ball twelve, or she can distribute, she'll step up, and when Darno Brian's not in that first receiver position, so Eve Higgins of Ireland, and then my second centre is Emma Orr of Scotland and she is opportunist, she is on it, she's that person, she's always looking for extras, she will often score tries off of something that wasn't meant to be. The balls just come dribbling out of a ruck. She's the one to pick it up. Someone just gets a tap on it or it's just like knocked on in the line out. She's the one that's there. And as I say, yeah, throughout not only she she's not um she's been injured this tournament, but that's no reason to write someone off and can definitely see her on the plane come September twenty twenty-seventh . Our Scotland coverage is brought to you by Vodafone, official partners of Scottish rugby. Ireland v Scotland score 54-5 -2 Ireland. A wonderful day out for Ireland in the Viva Stadium with a record-breaking crowd for an Irish women's rugby match of over 31,000 people. The exact number, 31, 2 94 people, flocked to Dublin to watch the Irish women run rampant over Scotland. History made for sure. JJ, that's a tough result for Scotland. Incredible result for Ireland. And in a home stadium. So again, so pleased for the Ireland girls. But if we talk about like this almost the Scotland side of it and they they were very nearly niled. Um it was only in the last moments of play clock was in red full time was actually went and then and then it went back for something and Scotland eventually scored. But how do you keep going? Even in in that game to those eighty minutes, how'd you get through? It is tough. It's really tough. I think the one thing that you you would hope that you can never doubt about the players is is the effort that they put in. So if line breaks are being conceded, well, how how hard is every player working back to get back and support? Or if someone makes a line break and they're going through how hard are they working to get on the shoulder to score that try? So it's the unseen bits, it's the work off the ball, which I think is probably where you need to start first, first and foremost, to check that everyone's attitude is right, everyone's pushed in the same direction. That has to be installed from from the coach and captain and and bled down into the team. Um, and then from there, it's about building those extra bits of layers. They're captain Rachel Malcolm they lost her through injury mid-tournament . How uh how difficult is that, like, through your experience? Because I I can imagine like for everything that I I've heard about Rachel Malcolm as a captain, both for club and for country, is that she is one of those people you would put everything on the line for. Like she is like the pinnacle what of that team and she's the person to bring them all together so that team has potentially like suffered a lot because of losing that one player but for you in your personal experience how difficult or not is that losing a captain mid tournament? Yeah I I was always quite fortunate. I was always more times than not in a team full of amazing leaders and a full of amazing players as well. So th there was never really one player that stood out massively above the rest in terms of their their playing ability. So whenever I I felt we lost a captain it was always fine. Like because we had so much trust in the leadership group and the next person in line would just was take that take that title on. Um and again in in in our games it was yes the captain would have the final say, but there would always be a discussion around the big moments and things like that. I guess where teams would struggle is I always go back to that Italy team when Par isi was in it and he was by far like the standout player, the it man. If they played well it was because he was playing well and I guess if if you're saying that the the captain is i is of the similar mould and has the same impression on the team, um then yeah it would be a a real tough place to be for sure. And another point relevant to like a tough tournament for Scotland is that they did only have a new coach start in January. Um and and looking at their defensive system and if I give you a stat of like the top five missed tacklers in tournament, three of which are Scottish. If you was Sioni Fukafucker, what would you how would you be assessing this tournament and reviewing and looking at going forward? I guess well there's a few things I'd look at. Firstly , what is the defensive system and because for me, miss tackles done in the right way I don't mind. So mm- the the example I'll give is if you're coming up hard with line speed and you force the attacker to have to go back inside and you don't quite make the tackle but that next person inside smokes the person that for me is a win and I don't mind if that's a Dean doesn't miss tackle, but if it's your fullback, winger, fly half, that's concerning because it means that there's probably a lot of line breaks being conceded. Then that would make me question: is it the system? Is the system wrong? And is it too easy to to create line breaks against Scotland? Or do the individuals just need improving? Do they need more time on their individual tackle technique? Um So that's that's where I would start. That would be the base of where I'll start. Is it the system, is it the player, and then address it appropriately? So either change the system or upskill the players. And all of it, all of it's fixable, right? You've got you've got a quality uh team of of Scottish women there, you've just got to give it the time, get the buy-in, get them to understand and like you say assess it as an individual but n one of it is like whoa we need to start all over again. No, and like the coach has come in very late and it takes time. When a new coach comes in, it does take time. Players need absolute clarity in terms of what they're doing. And when a coach has come in that late on, it's it's hard to get that. It clouds you a little bit as players, like for sure. Italy game then. 2-44 3 to Italy, which means Wales get the wooden spoon. Italy do finish in fourth place. Wales have now lost fifteen six nations games in a row. How many defeats do you like ever remember having in a row? Or even like maybe there's only one winning there? What sort of period of time? We had a we had a tough year at Bath um around twenty twenty-one maybe it was. Um we actually finished bottom of the premiership that year. Um and it's tough, it's really tough. You're rocking up every day, it's almost you know a little bit depression. You you're going into work, the place that you love, you're playing the sport you love, but you can't buy in to you know save your life. Um how do you come out of it? I guess you've got to look internally first, you've got to look at everything you're doing from an individual aspect. Are you pushing yourself to the limit? Are you doing all the little bits behind the scenes to make yourself tick? Um, and then as a collective, I've guessed you've got to work out what is our primary focus going into the next game, what do we need to improve? So it might just be right, the forwards it might just be mall or backs, it might be right, wide breakdown, whatever it might be, you and you've got to take it step by step. You can't fix everything at once. Yeah. You've got to break it down and look for those small wins and eventually hopefully get some continuity going forward. So you've been part of of major tournaments with the England team. How do you what is the process like for reviewing such a tournament, especially especially if it didn't go to plan . Yeah, I think it's it's not so much a team review. I mean sometimes we did have a review on the Monday morning, but it was it was pretty pointless because boys were boys were clocked out, they were ready to go home. The werey mentallyally, physic exhausted from that eight-week brutal camp of you know having to perform for your country. Um, probably hung over. So it it's more a meeting for the sake of meetings, I'd say. It's probably about two or three weeks later you'd usually have a catch up with a coach, probably more around your individual perform one to one, your individual performance, how the six nations went for you, and then probably what your work ons are or the things you need to keep improving um as you're going forward for the rest of the club. And and I feel like listening to England's men's coaches and players now, it sounds like it's changing for the better of how we as humans realise people receive information and actually not everybody learns by just putting it on the board, putting it on the screen, have a chat about it. Realising that like people learn differently to each other and accommodate in that. What Eddie did do to me a lot. I think he felt I was I think he felt I I mean I'm laid back. I'm very laid back guy. I think he thought he got the best out of me when I was uncertain about selection or what have you. So I hate it when they do. I think that honestly, I was the amount of times I was always in the non-team in the week. So you know you read into bibs. Monday, Tuesday, when it's like you're doing your most work. I was never in the or sometimes in the team, but there was a few weeks where I wasn't and I was like, I played well last week. Why am I like why have I been dropped? Like what's going on here? Um and then on Thursday you put the team up and I'm in it. I'm like well I've not run any reps with the boys this week. I've not run anyning moves. But you could argue it it did work. Like it got the best out of me made sure that I turned up and trained so hard on those Monday Tuesdays. That's Eddie Jones by the way, former England head coach for men that uh JJ was talking about. But to bring it all back to Wales uh and Sean Lynn and Scotland and Siona Fugafuka, they will essentially have a lot to look at, but the next time that they'll be in full force together will be in the autumn's for the WXV series . Okay, that's the end of Guinness Women's Six Nations for another year. Let's round it off then. Give me a couple of nominees, you think, for player of the tournament? Mmm, I will go with Meg, obviously. I will put Zoe in that hat as well. I think her game, her control , her kicking, um, her ability to run that England team around in attack has been brilliant. Um I wish Maddy didn't get injured for that. Yeah, I think she's class, I think she's so good. Um , and I think Amy was brilliant. Amy Cocaine, she scored in every every game. Yeah. But against France, I think I reckon she had about five turnovers and like everything just everything she did that game was near enough perfect. Yeah. Like she didn't make a mistake, I don't think, but like had such so many positive impacts on the game. And it's those little things that people might not even see. She's got an intercept. How many hookers get intercepts? That's what Amy does. She loves that. She looks straight away for her back to offload it. No, she was really good, really good that game. Uh, I'm gonna bring some balance for the podcast, that's what I do. And I'm gonna give you all three Irish players in the back row. All of them. It will surprise nobody precisely nobody to know I would go Erin King, young captain. She's only got the captaincy this tournament and she has carried them through like a true captain should and just seeing her on pitch like emotionally, but you know you can see a captain just getting everybody up for it and and the body language and you can't quite hear but you can work out what is being said. Uh to she's a top tackler for the whole tournament. She's up there with the top turnovers as well, top jackaler, which she is an open side flanker, so you know it she's just doing what she should be doing. But yeah, Erin King, I'd go Britney Hogan uh on the six because I just think she does not only does the basics well but she takes the easy route sometimes as in like why am I working hard one of my favourite tries was um a couple of weeks ago like the forwards are going like they're going round the corner round the corner picking and going and she just sees this little space and she just sort of goes to the back of the rug and just dots the ball down on the left hand side. There's nobody there. I was like, yeah, that's my kind of girl. But she's just like headfirst in all of the action. And then of course, JJ, you won't know this, but I am self-appointed Global Chief of the EFA Wafer Fan Club. Right. So we are a paid membership subscription. So we do offer our members quite the service. Just try not to laugh every time. I say that but um she got player of the tournament last year and honestly I this I would put her forward again but play yeah I 'm pla yer of the tournament this year. She got player of the match again yesterday. Again. I know. Playing at Harlequins. It's not a coincidence that she's at Harlequins and I was at Harlequins. Um and she's a good girl but her work rate she just tops the stats in so many whether it's um the meters made post contact, meters made generally the amount of carries I she carries as if it's a Prem game. She's just on the ball, on the ball. And that will be our nominees for player of the tournament if we were in charge, JJ. Which if you ask me, I personally think we should be. 100% . That's it. Another Guinness Women's Six Nations done in the bag. Don't know what we're gonna do for the next few weeks. Anything? Any plans? Nope. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna lay in my bed and be pregnant. I don't know. Exactly, that's what we need to do. I'm saying just eat as much as you want but thank you to our partners Royal London Vodafone Mitsubishi Electric thank you to you the listeners we love you we appreciate you and we will see you next time by ! This episode is brought to you by Royal London, the founding partner of the first ever British and Irish Lions Women's Tour . Definitely take a good job . Um you'll never guess who's knocking at the door. No it's not. No , it's not whatever you think it is. No . Hi. Hi. Yeah. Yeah, my back hurts. Carrying this pod. Oh jeez. Carrying this pod. Shoulders here. Lucky even got you a chair. 60 second wrap up then we're done. You look good. 60? She just still got her glasses on. You actually have a 30 second Ruby's roundup to do. Because I don't know if you know, but we've had um someone who actually described you as the MVP of yesterday. Really? Yep. And someone who played on the pitch yesterday made it here before you. Someone who played the whole 80 minutes made it to this chair before you. Oh I bet they had a couple of minutes there and a bunch and stuff. No, she didn't. She's going back to work tomorrow morning. Alright then we'll um we'll adapt and overcome. That's what we've been doing all day. We'll do a Ruby's Roundup, a last episode exclusive version of your last 24 24 hours. I'll start the clock. Honestly. Right, you ready? I think I don't wait. Three, two, one, go . Oh, this is a strong spot. Oh, wait, we're five seconds in really. Look, it's it's Wow, this is going really well. Okay. Ten seconds done. Watching, no, but watching if I go back to actual work I was doing. Well you've got 15 seconds. Watching the red roses win in France, in front of that French crowd, there was probably like 40 English fans out of 35,000. Yes. Five seconds. Was one of the most incredible things I've ever seen. Okay, time's up. Thank you. That was sick. It was worth it, wasn't it? That was good. I'm glad you got out of half taxi here . That was the longest taxi right there and the boat promised me like I'd go fuss. It was the slowest, the longest taxi ever had from airport. And also on the plane, I didn't even have a ticket. They wouldn't even sell me a ticket to the because I was trying to catch the all the next planes and they were like here and I paid all this money for like a non-ticket. So I only got on the flight because a man's this these this couple, their babysitter pulled out last minute so she couldn't come. So then I got her see. I didn't know you could sell that though. So did you sit next to him and have a good chat? Yeah while you're there? Yeah he was really happy 'cause he's going to a wedding.