Arrival at San Mames Stadium

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Get up We've got to hit the road and you're driving again. Coley Coley . Oh, nice try, mate. Come on. Can't be a yellow, it's only a charge now. The road to Bill Bow, here we go . The road to Bill Bow continues. Having successfully driven from Cardiff to Paris, we now have just three days left to reach Bill Bau in our famous pink J Coup, ahead of the Investic Champions Cup. We'll be stopping off in La More to put some heat in our tires before reaching La Rochelle to catch up with Cornwall's favourite sun. Thanks for stopping by lads. We then head to the region of this year's finalist, Bordeaux. Any guesses what we'll be getting up to there? The final day of our road trip is a big one. Giant sand dunes, oysters and attempt at surfing. All before reaching the SummerMess Stadium ahead of the 2026 Invest Champions Cup final . With roughly 800 miles still remaining, we decided to put the JQ super hybrid system to the test. Can we get from Fasai to Bilbao on one full battery and one full tank. Let's give it a go . So we charged the battery overnight at the hotel and now we're filling up with fuel and we're good to go . Mate, you'll be delighted with what I've got for you . Crisps . Biscuits. You made a right mess the other day. Bars. I'm actually keeping them. We just get on the road. Favourite? Nice. You're happy that I'm keeping it you can take that one . Mine. Mine again . Shut up. Right . We are here at Lemo ire Race Circuit, home of the world famous Lemour 24 Hours. We haven't got 24 hours, we've got a short period of time, but we are going to set some lap records on the circuit right here. There. You know I'm a render's at predicting. I do. So I'm going to mix it up. The winner of this is basically then my prediction for the weekend. So we're gonna represent the teams? We are. Well I'm gonna represent Bordeaux because I've already got Bordeaux shirt. You've found yourself a Leinster shirt. So I'll represent Leinster. And whoever wins is my prediction. That's our prediction. Our our prediction. Good. Because I'm sick of getting it wrong all the time. The thing is mate, you're massive you forget like it's in you are a big human like trying This is uh the biggest one going. I mean just basically Right, Rockstar Lizzie, we said the winner of this will be the outcome of the game at the weekend. But who are you backing? Are you back in Leinster or are you back in Bordeaux? Well we are in France currently so I'm gonna have to back Bordeaux. I respect that. What's your go-kart in like? That is another questi on. Excellent, you're no threat to us. Brilliant. Oh right. I need some tape. Take my ears down. Right. Can't bend over. It's like racing Donkey Khan, I should be absolutely fine to be honest with you. To be fair, he's driven the entire journey so far . It's nice for me to have a little drive, you know? And it's a chance for me to remind him that I should actually be driving the Jacob all the way to Bilbao. If I don't beat Coley, aka Donkey Khan, I'll be devastated. All I'd say, if the final between these two teams is anything like that go-karting race, it'll be a belt and there won't be much in it. There won't be much in it. Everything was timed, so let's go see how we actually do. We think we had a great circuit. Might turn out that we are horrendous. Correct. Felt quite very slow with felt rapid . So the winner won by 0.22 of a second. Like a fraction of a second. It's amazing's.. It you guys And it is the dad. Oh , thank you. Thank you. Literally. It is tiny. We're not competitive. So your 11th lack is generally not competitive. My ninth was the quickest. I didn't want to win anyway. I was here just to have a good time. I want to come and experience and have a laugh. That's all I wanted out of it. I didn't want to win. Well, based on this, uh Bordeaux are gonna be champions. So well done me . Nice spot for that. I'll be honest you mate. Cheated anyway . So it's one nil to Bordeaux before a ball's even been kicked. Can they go back-to-back winners just like La Rochelle did in 2022 and 2023? Let's head to LaRochelle now to get the opinion of an old England teammate of ours. Coley, top driving, we're at Larry Show. We set it in the car. Can't come here and not catch up with our old teammate. Jack Noel. Knowlesy, how are you, mate? I'm very well, thank you, mate. I'm very well. Thanks for thanks for stopping by, lads. But we're happy to stop by, mate. Turns out we love France. Yeah, you picked a not bad night to be fair, so why don't boys? You're looking great, by the way. Um life out here good? Um, yeah. Very good, mate. Uh it's uh I struggled to find things to to complain about. Um obviously a few results this year have not gone our way, but um yeah, in terms of life and life outside rugby, I'm happy, my family are happy, kids are happy, um, and now the sun's coming out as well. So uh yeah, it's very it's going very well. We we really need someone to say it's crap. Like Yeah. I can I throughout our entire career we were like, no, no, don't friend. So we come out here and everyone's like, it's awesome and we love it. And we're like, Yeah, the more time I spend out here, the more me and you look at each other and go, I love Leicester, right? I'll be honest you I I had a great time there, I love it. Right. But the longer I spent on these road trips and coming out is mega. No, it's good. I think um you know obviously for me coming out here it happened that uh you know, there was probably no better time, you know, loads of p players say they want to come out and experience different things, but I think kind of everything everything kinda lined up for me to to move out here with, you know, England stuff, the stuff that went on at Exeter as well and you know, with amount of players that we lost that season. So yeah, the the the opportunity came and you know it was one that I'm I'm very glad that I took and and uh yeah, I'm here now after three years and one more to go, hopefully. Exeter was unbelievable. Um very loyal fans and you know very passionate but there is something about you know French rugby at the minute and and a lot of that is down to the fans. For example, Newcastle away we had a a massive bus full of La ochelle fans that came over and travelled to watch that game and it's just like you just you don't expect it, you want it, but you don't expect it. And and to to to see to see fans travel around all of France, you know, supporting the team and you know, those guys want it just as much as what we do as well. So, you know, to be able to play for them and you know, be honest, I don't understand a lot of what they say sometimes, but you know, to be able to play for them and and to see the passion behind them as well, it's it's it's very pleasing. It certainly gives the boys a a a go forward. You know, just you know, Laoshao in general as well, you know, our our stadium, I think's been sold out for ten plus years and you know you can't buy a ticket to to to to watch and it's it's it's it's brilliant to to be part of. Sounds like we're gonna have to come back, aren't we? That's what I'm hearing. I'll try and get you a ticket, mate. Don't worry. Rugby wise, what like when you get to training, what's the different culture wise French versus English? Like we spoke on the pod about England's quite structure, that kind of stuff and we we think that France is like just there's a ball have a go lads. Was that is that the case? Is it difficult was it a change? Um it is a bit like that. I think um you know obviously Rog being our our our coach a kind of is is he he the way So um but he's very aw aware that um we can't be as structured and as as as strict so say as uh as we are in England and and places like that because you know the Frenchies are are different to us. They they like to play rugby like you said. They like to throw the ball around and you have to you have to have that that side view where you have to let a few a few things go, especially certainly mistakes, you know, you know, especially when we're playing what we were like, you know, everything was about keeping the ball, you know, playing very structured, knowing exactly what you're doing at this line out, knowing exactly what you do when you get to the twenty-two. But whereas, you know, I kind of had to change my approach to that and kind of just go over the flow a little bit. Um that's probably one of the biggest learnings that I had coming out of here. What is Rodge like? Because from the outside, he's had huge success as a player, right? Especially in Europe. And the Investig Champions Cup, of course, won it twice, uh coaching LaRochelle. And you look at him, he's never done international rugby. I'm sure that will change at some point. But what is what is Rodge like? Is he the the best coach you've come across or who do you compare him to from the coach you've had throughout your career, Nelsie? Probably, you know, one of the closest to players that now coach that I've that I've been under. So he still has that side of knowing what the players need at that time. And you know, we have so many coaches that are like, you know, family are so important and and training's so important, but family's important. We're gonna we're gonna make sure that you do all the best efforts to to keep the family involved. And as soon as they're coaching, it's it's a completely different story. It's it's uh it's the complete opposite sometimes whereas roge is very is very much still intact with if with what players need and when they need it so the family side of stuff is is massive um for example our training is is pretty much moulded around kids . You know, when they're in school, what time they start school, when you when they finish school. Our day off is normally the kids' day off 'cause in in France wa Wednesdays are are no school so the kids do sports and stuff. So they make sure that that we don't have training on Wednesdays or when we when're the kids need us. That side of him is is brilliant because that kind of puts you at ease completely. But coaching wise he's he's very honest. Sometimes probably not Not not always the best time to be honest, but you know, at least you know exactly 100% what you're gonna get from him. Um, you know, there's no beating around the bush, he tells you direct, he tells you when you're playing rubbish, when you're playing well, uh, why you're not playing, um, or whyy you are plaing. So yeah, you know, I've learned a lot from from from being Rodge. Um you know, you've got to become very thick skinned. Um but at the same time he wants the best for you. He wants the best for you on the field, off the field. Um and yeah, I really enjoyed my time with him so far. Mate, that's um sounds like maybe we we've all been coached by someone that could look you in the eyes and tell it to you straight at some point you're not in your career, so seems like you're well prepared for it? Just on a nausea thing. What's he like 'cause sometimes you get coaches that are like motivators, don't you? Who don't really touch on the technical side. Sometimes you get like the technical guys who aren't in touch with it. But you say they sound like a um a people person in some regards. What's his technical kind of skills like? 'Cause when he talks on TV he does make a lot of he seems very adapt. But to have a coach that can do both is there's not many other. No, there really like you say, there's some that tap into the emotion part that almost sort of sort of covers their I suppose strategy part, or you've got some that are really str uh strategic and set you up really well but don't necessarily have the I suppose charisma to then sell it to you. So yeah how 's also seeing on TV swearing at refsing and gett banned. And sometimes when the red mist descends, the technical side of things isn't one of the things to Especially in the second half of games when he comes on the touchline. Um I rate that though, like you know, like get down there and like give it well maybe you don't when you're playing, but I love it. He's into it. Do you know what I I think it's it's it's it's passionate, isn't it? There's nothing there's nothing more but motivating than when you know that your coach wants it just as bad as as as the players do. And you know, I'm it's obvious, I'm sure a lot of coaches are all like that as well, but you know, when you can hear him on the touch sign and he's F and a blind and you can you can tell that he wants it and he can tell that he's saying it for the good reasons. Sometimes when obviously I'm on the wing. So I in one of the house I certainly hear it a lot more than others and uh and he tries to get lots of his messages through me. But um yeah, I th I think I think it's good. It's passionate, it's it's you can tell he wants it, he wants to win, he wants to win trophies. And I don't think you want you you can ask for anything more from a from a player to have your coach like that. So yeah, it gets him into trouble a few times like uh as we've all seen. Um but you know he deals a bit well, he he he moves on from it and um yeah it's always always about the next game of him so How's um translating as well, listening to French, obviously you listen to the French and sometimes accents are different, but when he's ranting and rave in in French in his Irish accent . I was understanding that. Is that alright? Is that the It's not bad. Um you know obviously all foreigners probably learn French the the same way, so you know when when Rod speaks and a lot of the foreigners uh players and coaches speak, you know, I I I'm able to pick that up a lot easier than than when the Frenchies speak because some of them can speak very fast and and yeah and very quickly. So it's a it's a struggle to understand them sometimes. But you know, if I ever need anything extra or more help I always just go and speak to him after which makes it a lot easier for me. Um but yeah when he chucks in his Irish swear words as well I kinda get the gist of what's going on and and uh yeah I can put two and two together after that. Well, two teams playing this weekend, of course, Bordeaux and Leinster. And Knowlesy, you've played against both those teams in the final this season. Your take on those two? Should we start with Leinster? You played them in January. Played them a lot, mate. You play them every year. Larry Shell and Leinster seems to be every single year. What's your take on them? Um they're they're alright, they're good. They're they're a good side. Um I don't think they're gonna win. I think uh Baldo will will win. I think Baldo are unbelievable at the minute. You know, like you said then when you've got the the power up front as well as the the backs that can you know put the ball on strings and and and play the ball around the field like Jally Bear can. It's very hard to stop. It's about making tackles, it's about ruck spe ed. Um and you know, border at the moment, you know, they pretty much have everything. They have the ability to go through the middle, like we said, they have the ability to go through defense when they come at line speed, but then they also have the ability to play wide and and play around them. So you know it's it's they're gonna be tough to tough to stop. You know, Lencer's defence is good um at the same time saying that, but you know, like like we said then it's gonna be hard to to look past what they what they can do and how they're gonna stop them. How do you prepare for like LBB's world class and it's almost like a cheat code? People say this cheat code reppy. They got Rassy at the back who's can step at least step in or something. Some of his side steps Can we put the clip in now, please? Just yeah. Roll clip of a couple of his steps, Riassi at fullback. Break it out. Joke everyone talks about LBB Penno. And play video now . And we're back. Right? Those guys. Like you say. You got Penelon who's playing thirteen but eight plus on the wing. How was a as you as yourself as a winger, how do you prepare like for those guys? I've played against uh the LBB for a a few couple of times now. Try and get a massive head start when I can . Um just make sure there's a fullback, but if there's any space in behind, can you just try and full back on across? Extremely early before he gets before he gets going. Uh we played Baldo last year was the last time I played against him. Um , and luckily it was raining. So it was uh it was brilliant for us. You know, we we kept the ball tight, we were able to beat them up a little bit, and uh and they weren't able to keep the ball in hand and and and run like they normally do. But you know, I think like you said that he is a cheat code at the minute. They're one of their best weapons is turnover attack, they kick the ball as long as possible and then get him to sprint a hundred metres down the field and get the get the ball. But you know, like you said, not just him, you got Penno. Um you got Reasy at fullback, like you said, th with his feet as well. They've got a very good blend at the minute with the power in the centres. Um, and obviously nine and ten are are very good at uh at putting them in the right positions in the field as well. So you know they're they're certainly the the the team that are th you know probably the favourites to to go and do at the minute are they? Yeah. I mean Mofana almost sometimes gets lost in the wash a little bit. You know in the midfield but still he he's unbelievable. That's what I mean. Like because he he does so much great work. But even that matchup, you know, could potentially Rico Irani could be on the wing so he could see a matchup there. He could be in centre as well. So he could be against Mofana. So there's so many matchups that could be absolute quality. Where would you rank you know LBB in terms of wingers Nolsey in the world right now . Um obviously we looked ahead this weekend. He has been pivotal for Bordeaux. But w where do you rate him? I think he's I think he's he's he's got to be he's got to be the best at the minute in terms of the wingers have have you know they've have certainly changed over the last you know ten years in terms of you know, majority of wingers always wanted to stay on the wing and score tries and just finish the tries. Where then we went through a stage of wingers coming off the wing doing a lot more work in the midfield and first hard player yeah you literally do that no but normally like we were talking about in the car we like you were literally like in terms of coming off the wing like mate you would you'd always be uh in around the ruck um a certain when we played together, like chasing on shoulder balls and you used to make like carry get meters around that area and you'd be like, How on earth? As long as he got seven, eight, nine meters through there. Exactly, then bounce through . We made that nickname up as well, mate . Um, no, I think what I lack in face I tried to I tried to do outside on the field. That's that was kind of my idea of it. You know, it's kind of come back a little bit in terms of, you know, getting your wingers to finish tries in the corners and things like that, 'cause he he does that, but then you look at his size and you look at him in person, you're like, he is certainly not the big one of the biggest wingers that that you're gonna come across. But gets involved, he makes his tackles, um, he he certainly punches more above his weight, but yeah, in terms of his his finishing skills and his and his his proper wingers work, I think he's yeah, he's certainly the best uh the best in the world at the minute. I'm gonna take you back to memory lane a little bit here. In twenty twenty. You're the last English team for X to Chiefs to uh to win the investing champions cup. Not too far away. When you look at back that, I'm sure you're very proud of of everything that was involved in that day and everything like that. But why'd you not get an MBA? I'll tell you who's the most gutted about it is probably Jack Gendal. That's Lady Sibers. Because Joe Simmons got the MBA for being captain on the day and and obviously Jack Yendall's been our club captain for uh since since D Mum left, I think. So uh Justice for Yendel. Right, that's twice he's come up with the podcast. Justice for Jack Yendel. Justice for J We had uh we had Joe Simmons MV and we had Jack Yandall no MBE, so we it was it was perfect. Um before you go, Jack, we've got one final thing. Um can you give us a score prediction for this weekend and what type of game do you think it's gonna be? I think it's gonna be a tight first twenty . Um I do think Baldo will will run away with it. Um I think Lensa I wanna keep a tight. I'm gonna say it's gonna be a thirty six a thirty six twelve order. Nice. And most of those trials are gonna come maybe in the last fifteen minutes I'm getting the word Tammy Afuna. Oh, big bed, mate. He's on a rumble. He's looking for four and a row. I'm back in the back. He's gonna have to have a five meter, five meter tap and go try. Ten meter, mate. You can't stop the bloke. No, you can't. What a man. Uh Nolsey, thanks so much for joining us. You've got training tomorrow. We haven't. So we're gonna go joy Lauren Shell this evening. Perfect, lads. Enjoy, enjoy the red wine. Cheers, mate. Thank you very much. Day three on our road trip to Bilbao and we thought we'd start off our morning with a bit of touch rugby on the beach. Uh weather's pretty crap actually. Yeah. It's freezing. Ben Young's tours has done it again. Sunny beach, no wind. We couldn't just play on our own, could we? So uh We've had enough of each other. So we brought some friends along. I've had enough of Ben anyway. Yeah, and I can't stand cold to be honest. It's keeping me up all night. No, mate, you are having it. You get over that side. Get over that side. I'll do my talk. Yeah. Cat, do you know what's going on here? Right, so the ball has to go backwards. Yeah. When you pass it you run forwards. If you touch, alright. If you touch, you just stop and you just turn and pass to a player. Yeah. Rock, paper, scissors, see who starts. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Thank you. Right. But he got touch you got touch. Yes, that's what we've got to do, Kat. Just do that. You can never blame anyone in rugby, but Ben that's entirely your fault! Your skin Oh Well no, that's two. Mate Rockstar Lizzie is absolutely killing my team. He's telling it to like loan in a bit. No no content. Oh yeah. Sorry. Yeah, I can try! Right. Two one. Don't worry, come back to that. Oh yes, there we go. Oh yeah. Oh this is genius. Do you think I thought Ben would have the advantage here, obviously because Dan was a fraud. But yeah, it's looking like Carlsyfield win. Gotta mark a racehorse. Can't get anyone nearer . It's a great game. Well well done everyone. Yeah, well Carolina's gone. She's exhausted. She's over there in a heap., shattered First time playing though. First time playing. Player of the match. Congratulations. Well done, well done. Rugby's the winner. Yes, rugby. We' reready to hit the road. I think Sun's a great leveler. We've people who've played Get Rugby for the first time. English most cat man. And yeah, everyone looked uh very similar. So you did, Dave. Right, let's load up the cars and go. I enjoyed our time in La Rochelle. Great to see Nolsey mate. Been good. I'm grateful. He was. I can see why he loves it. Beach rugby this morning, that was good. I wasn't trying, obviously. No, I wasn't mate. No, I wasn't trying. No. No I generally wasn't trying. I was probably at like five, ten percent of what I could do. Well I was just you know, I was just trying to get everyone involved, you know. So I sit mate, it's it's I just wasn't trying. Rugby for everyone. It's a game for everyone. So you know, whether you've got loads of caps or it's the first time you ever picked a rope bill, it's you know, we show today that it's a game for everyone. So far on this trip, we've had prediction from Jamie George, we've had a prediction from big dev Toner, Leinster legend. And Knowlesy. Jack was pretty strong. Pretty strong, adamant that Bordeaux would win. Having played both teams, yeah. And we did the go-karting as well to predict our prediction. Yeah. And Bordeaux came in. And if you go enough to touch rugby, which I obviously wasn't trying in at all and um if we carry on the theme that I was Leinster and you were Bordeaux, they win again. I think there's not enough about the fact that everyone is talking about Bordeaux, it feels very much that way, and I think for once Leinster can go into a final , and that burden of expectation is actually off them. You know, internally, of course, they've got expectation, but externally it feels very much like they can really play that narrative this week in the mindset of Cody. You know what it you know, we know what it's like of you know, we're going there and they don't expect us to w you know and and they don't get to do that, I'd say, very often. I think the pressure is on Bordeaux. Definitely on Bordeaux. Like Bordeaux haven't lost in the Champions Cup, in the investment champions cup for two years, you know what I mean? Since that uh was it quarter final against Queens. They are flying high and but you actually look at I know they beat Bath and Toulouse but you look at those games first half Toulouse had them under immense pressure weren't able to convert and seminally Bath in that first half will put the ball in behind Bordeaux. They'll cause them issues. Like so it's not a foregone conclusion that Bordeaux will just beat them. Like we expect I expect this game to go deep into probably the final quarter of the game and then C Stren,gth but. But you you know look at Leinster, they have the ability to play I would say possession rugby, but they can keep teams away from their own try line. Like they've got a great kicking game. They have forwards a little tackle, a little jackal that can make the breakdown a mess. So they were able to get penalties there. You know, think of the jackal inability. They put team, you know, put board over the corner a line up and operates. And they're smart in how they play. So I don't think it's as full gone as I think we are probably people aren't estimating Leinster and their ability because Bordeaux are so good, but Leinster also very good too. And the players they have. If Leinster do dominate that gain line, if they steal meters off them defensively, Bordeaux always looking to keep the ball alive. It's the French way, right? Minimum rucks. Keep it moving. Keep the point of attack. If Leinster can compete at that breakdown, if Leinster can stop at the gain line, then I think they can force Bordeaux into a load of errors and then it then bordeaux the the the the pressure mounts on them we've seen how they got the temperament to deal with that's quite one out runners sometimes they don't really run in pack of three where you got sort of when you run three forward say the line you have two blokes clearing the breakdown one carrying where Bordeaux can be quite one-off, and even when they look to off-load, it's sort of even the stuff you're running. I'm an off-load cheap, but as you're getting tackled, you then can't clear the breakdown. Bordeaux's physicality might work against them in some regards because they get forced back inside, they carry, they make yards, but they almost get beyond the game or behind the game line as a one-off carry which then allows Leinster's back row to go to work. Even what McCarthy, Portal, those guys, those guys in the front five they can do the sheein. So it's almost like you're going back into middle Horn's nest in regards to those jackal bits on the breakdown. So Bordeaux would have to be very smart. A bit like when France played Ireland at this first game of Six Nations, France were putting like three or four guys into the breakdown to begin with because they were so concerned I think with the breakdown. So Bordeaux might make a slight adjustment there um but yeah it's gonna be a fascinating job because as you say I think Led still try and force Bordeaux back inside Penot thinks that he's gonna be pivot till he's at 13 because if he can get the ball for his hands to LBB, Bordeaux might be in business because of space out there. But getting the ball there is a different matter. But if they do get forced outside, Jalaber will carry, Luke will carry, uh Mofana will carry, like the forwards will carry. So it's how they maximize that without getting turned over in the breakdown. Definitely feels to me that Leinster will feel more comfortable without the ball early on and almost force Baldo to overplay and try and um squeeze them, force errors, almost frustrate them in the way of being very comfortable without the ball. So almost in their half being very pragmatic and smart, you know, it makes sense against a team like Bordeaux. Turn them, keep it Bordeaux is far away from your own far away and far away and overlay. A bit like Toulouse to play a bit like Toulouse in that first half. Um they had a play far away. Bordeaux had three or four times when they got the ball tried to break out from their own triline. Correct. And offloads went to the floor, they got turned over the jackal and that gave Bordeaux entry. Now, Bordeaux sorry, that gave Toulouse entries into Bordeaux's twenty-two. Was Toulouse weren't able to convert them because of great goal line stands and errors and that kind of stuff, but Leinster might. You know what I mean? You give a team enough of opportunities, keep knocking the door long enough. All it takes is what? Yeah, and Leinster will, and I think that's that's the in for Leinster there. That is the inn. It's it's territory, like being really tactical, smart, tactic ally smart about the territory and how they go about that and then almost forcing Bordeaux to uh go multi-phase and chancer arm from deep and then on the back of that with the defense that they have and the and the pressure that it can put you under is forcing areas, forcing uh turnovers, forcing sort of penalty opportunities. I would say that's how they'll shape up at the beginning of the game. I think conversely you also gotta think about say Leinster's attack and Bordeaux's defence. And Leinster are happy we've seen sitting in multiple phases going edge to edge, you know, forwards carry, forwards carry. They're the tip shapes, they move you around and Bordeaux's They've got some big boys in the forward back who ideal world probably don't want to be mak ing 10, 15, 20 tackles each. Well they've got walkie and someone that who can do it, but thought they were going to rely upon winning collisions in those parts and potentially having like a Tamyafooder at some point having a jackal or those kind of balls. But if Leidster can red hold the ball, there is space on Bordeaux to be, you know, to exploit and Lex throw a smart team that they can do that. Yeah that well their shape, what it allows him to do is try and create one on ones and get a bit of momentum. Like how Bordeaux or or traditionally top 14 is it's a bit more one out big carrier running into big defender and it's a you know it's a it's a battle of the gain line where leinster will have subtleties to the way that they attack and by doing that can they then hold on to multi-phase can they start pulling that defense apart and then it takes the run off the legs in terms of the other you watch Bath versus Bordeaux Bath for quite one hour sometimes with a four pack even like not from five minutes out but even like 22 out they're quite one out which would then Bordeaux it was sort of one-on-one collision to put able to win but I think Leinster will be coming in twos and threes which A creates up in the defender's mind that you're sort of worried about who you hit in and B you just gives you a softer shoulder to potentially get him behind so and if you flood those channels with players, you're not one out, you've got two or three forwards running. That's when you can get momentum and opportunities. And when you get momentum, which they will at times because their shape allows them to do so, Jameson Gibson Park on the front foot, making decisions, bringing that tempo, bringing that fluidity to attack, will be pivotal. And the longer the game goes on, and the more that they can able sort of take the run away from Baldo, the more he will dictate the rhythm of the game. And that's why the battle between him and Lu ku is fascinating, it's absolutely fascinating. But from a halfback's point of view, it's a lot easier playing when you're in the front foot and the balls' on a plate, and you've got big runners coming and you're winning the next collision, you are literally in control of the the the rhythm of the game. You're in the beat of the game. So depending on which team can get momentum and which team can stop, again will have a big impact and how those two sort of um you know, who comes out between those two actually to be fair because they are both in fine form, no doubt about it. But which team can get those guys momentum so they can do their thing, so they can actually be the point of difference that um that they'll both be hoping to be. The other thing as well, like the narrative around Bordeaux and why a lot of people are talking them up is for me kind of leading into this is and I've said it a few times now it's hard to really gauge where Leinster are at like fully. Like we know the quality they have as as as test match players as as British and Irish Lions players as individuals and everything like that but when you actually look at the build up to the final you know Bordeaux have obviously played Bath in the semis, they've played Toulouse in the quarters. And if you look at Leinster, they've played what Sale, they played Edinburgh, they played um Toulon. It's it's hard to really gauge where they're at, where because Border have c overcome I suppose deemed stronger opposition in fact it's not even deemed like they have overcome stronger opposition you feel that they're try uh trial and tested where I look at Lencer and it's like I I can't quite gauge where they're at, but you do but we're fully aware of the individuals and the great team that they are capable of being. And I and again and I think that's maybe maybe why Leinster would be quite liking this week. They're a bit under the radar. They're not people aren't talking about them. But to to a to a man collective, they'll know how good they can get and how good they can be. And there's something to be said. I I personally loved, you know when it's like a massive game, you just knew you had that bit in your stomach all week, that bit of I don't know, in your eye where you you just you knew you need to bring it. Like you just know and actually you you love that feeling of putting more expectation on yourself. I I loved it. I was like and I didn't always get it right but I still loved that feeling of this is a massive game and this is gonna require the best version of me and I cannot wait and that whole thing I'm like playing the game practicing the game, thinking about the the g game, you know,ame's gonna start like this and this is how I'm gonna feel if I was watching the stands, this is what I'd look like. I loved that and I and there's no doubt that they're all be you know their stomachs will be starting to feel it there there'll be that look in their eye within trainining. Traing will have that edge. You know, there'll be performance conversations going on all the time, straight to the point. No niceties, just very business like. You know, like we spoke a lot, didn't we england about like give off to your teammates you're ready like giving off to your teammates when you're ready isn't like shouting or screaming it's just doing your job doing your job and doing it within the training week the way you conduct yourself it's just it's just a look sometimes it is just a look sometimes it's just a or silence you know like not engagement in a in some humor or anything like that it's just you just sense it and both teams will be will be doing that this week without doubt because it's gonna require the best versions of both teams to uh to get the job done . There must be something in the water that makes Bordeaux so good at rugby . Welcome to season two of Ben Young's Investigates. Featuring Phil Mitchell . Cheers. We're at Chateau Mayon with Mark Johnson Hill. Thank you so much for hosting us. We're on our trip to Bill Bow for the final. And you sent a little message to the podcast saying that we're more than welcome to drop in. And we absolutely have taken you up on that. Did not expect that. Yeah. We f feel very lucky to be here, so thank you very much. You're very welcome. Thank you for coming to visit us. Give us a little bit of um background really. How you've ended up here as an Englishman and uh in the heart of Bordeaux. Uh make it short and sweet. Took a gap year, told my parents I'll be back in a year. I lied, I never went back home. I worked in uh farming in Africa and then basically started working in Asia, Africa and Central America and my lifetime dream, which I kept to myself and then started thinking about was one day owning a vineyard. So twenty years ago, I stopped dreaming and started thinking about it and put some pen to paper and started putting it to together and then fortunately it worked out. So my wife and I bought Chateau Mayome in two thousand nineteen . When are we buying one trick ? Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Well, yeah. I like this part. About the work part is uh we'll find out. Yeah, we're we we're having a great trip actually. We do we're we're sort of getting lost in the whole experience of it. Um tell me about your association with Rugby and what and what you know obviously played the game growing up, obviously really passionate about it. Uh I mean I'm a huge lover, fanatic. Uh obviously it started uh boarding school. I went to rugby school, so it's almost a religion there, and we were just absolutely driven by winning that the house competition, which is the oldest competition in the world. We fought our hearts out to win it. In my final year we lost in the semi, I think we all cried for about a week. Uh but it that's how important it was to us. Um and I never lost touch with my love of rugby. Obviously, I was supporting England. And then as we were living and travelling around the world, the first thing I did when we moved country to country, I I joined a rugby club. So I was lucky to play played some great clubs in Manila. Uh that rugby was just starting then. And I got involved with a Philippine team. Uh I was playing in the scrum at the time and I was affectionately called the Tractor because I was slow and reliable. But I could I taught them the basics of rugby. Uh we went to Indonesia, I played for Bali It is quite amazing that you know what the game unless you play it, people can't really understand it and it's the same of you know whether elite game people might think it's different it's not but you meet great people all the time and it's just it's an awesome sport we all know that right but what makes it awesome is the people that play it and the people involved in it. And it's just it it's like that from the elite level to the gr to everywhere. And it's just awes it's awesome to hear your experience that the first thing you almost did wherever you went abroad was where's the rugby club? 'Cause where I'm gonna you know meet a lot of people. Yeah it's and uh it it And I've always loved that and I feel I feel that was just such a great quote to carry on a lot of people playing rugby. Um, you know, you you you follow the laws, but you have a fine disregard for the rules. So that motto's almost stood with you. Yeah, I I I've always enjoyed it. I think it's the I think it's a great thing. I mean people need to remember that a lot of the sports and by the way the the laws of rugby were written two years before the the rules of soccer, so I always like reminding people of that. Um and also our laws are called laws 'cause they're written by lawyers. So they were designed to be to withhold time and test of time. So, you know, I've always loved I love some of the old stuff like that. You know, I think the history and everything else. I think uh another reason I'm extremely proud of the school is whenever England plays in the white, that's actually rugby school, that's our strip. The first game of rugby of uh England versus Scotland in eighteen seventy one was it was half the team were uh rugby school boys. And that's why they chose. They said, Well we're gonna play the Scots in, okay, let's go in our strip. So that's why you had the white shorts, the white the white shirt, white shorts, and it was actually black socks. And up until about the seventies the England team used to have to write permission to play in our strip. And then they changed the top of the socks to white and they said, We don't play in your strip anymore, so we don't have to ask you. But it was this lovely little histories like that. The England cap is one of the school caps of one of our houses. Actually which I have, well my son got got the second so I can show you later. So it's that link that's that's embedded in the sport uh throughout and the history which I just I think is fantastic. That is incredible. I've just really learnt something. That's amazing. I feel like I should know that by idea . So I make you so much. We're also in the heartland of Bordeaux and seeing their success and that's obviously a team for you to you can go watch down the road. Um they've got an opportunity to go back-to-back champions, which is incredible. But I mean how do you like it. Okay, so first of all it's actually a lot harder to go and see them watch them because the tickets are incredibly hard to get. Uh that they're sold out way in advance. I'm actually trying to buy tickets right now for the for the twenty six, twenty-seven season and I'm already in a queue. So that's that's how much uh it th the devotion and everything else. I think my respect for the Bordeaux team is that not so long ago they w they were not contenders. They they it's not as if they they have a sort of a long uh uh history of it. And it's it's super impressive. Um so I mean I give 'em all credit and a mag magnificent team to watch and support now that we're living here. Do you see the obviously twenty three World Cup hosted by France. Have you seen French rugby grow even more since then? Or has it always been a big beast? We've always seen it as a you know, yeah. It's so well supported in the south for France, especially. But have you seen it be catapulted even more so? I I I think it's always been massive. Um the French rugby history is amazing. It was actually started by the English, like everything else. Um uh along with the wine. We'll get to that a bit later. Let's see who else I can upset in this podcast. Um but it but it was originally started by by basic uh expats living in France and La Havre was the first team and then the second team was called um I was get this right uh Racing Club of Paris, which eventually became Racing 92. And then that was eight that was I think it's eighteen eighty two, I'll get the numbers wrong, but eighteen eighty three then then Stad, uh Stade Francais was set up. So th they started a long time ago, there's been really embedded. And the the rugby here in this countryside, you s you see Bordeaux, you see all the teams, you see Toulouse and everything else. But the club and country the country teams, which I call, I I actually applied to join one of the Vets teams. They I'm still waiting to see if uh if I'm up for it because I have an injured shoulder. But everywhere there's a rugby pitch around. When you drive around, the the level of support and love of the game here is extraordinary. But it's it's like England. It's embedded. I think don't assume that we have such a big club uh game in England and grassroots level. It's also here. You meet young kids and in sp this area here, all they talk about is rugby. It's fantastic. It's really embedded. And I think that's why they have such a good crop of players and everything else, because they start so young and they build up. And it's a and when you have a team like Bordeaux that comes builds up a history, gets gets to do so well, it just brings it just brings in the whole city and and the whole countryside. Everyone's bought into it. I mean w I shouldn't tell you this, but we've I told everyone' said, Ive got some England rugby players coming herself. And he said, Oh, England, no, no, no, no. So I mean so it's you know, they're absolutely devoted to their to their team and and it's the the village here is four hundred and fifty people. They know who you are. That's wonderful. Does it become tribal in the areas? It's ex traordinary. But yes, it's definitely very trouble. When the the impact of Bordeaux winning the Invested Champions Cup last season, and you saw the welcome they got the open bus ride and everything like that. The whole city, like the whole community, everyone comes together and sort of celebrates their region, isn't it? It's Bordeaux the the one where we where they beat us and we got kicked us out. I had to endure that every year. I can't wait for Castion. And they reenact it with thousands of actors as well just to rub it in. So so they have these amazing events which they r they they really love their history, they buy into it. And when their rugby team is doing well, all the shops I go to, so I obviously go and buy lots of tools, I love do the renovations myself. Every shop I go into, there's a Border rugby team shirt and there's pictures of the players and then normally the shirts are signed. I mean that they are everywhere. They're they're loved and and the following is just fantastic. It is a ma it is amazing. Like we sensed that when we came out in April for the quarterfinals. And you could really see the impact that team has amongst the whole city and and the players are loved. Like they are absolutely lost. I think one of the great things about rugby is people are in the communities like Ben Tony Fooder is out in the street, isn't it? and And like people he said on the pod that he loves meeting people, you know he takes to what he makes the day and all that kind of stuff but and rugby I think's accessible and the players are accessible and so especially in like we had it in Leicester you go out in Leicester and people talk to you or in the surrounding villages where we live, like you're always and you no one's hidden away, aren't you? And I think that's one of the special things, especially about Bordeaux where the players are actually in the city and can be seen, you know, going about the, you know, bedtime through and taking his kids out and it it's just it it's accessible, isn't it? Yeah it it's fantastic. I I saw Ben uh at uh a Carol service uh with his family and it was just it was just it was obviously inspiring to see yeah just how big he is. Um but it was impressive. It's just it's just so normal and so human and it's and I think rugby is inc is an important part of the the of rugby is the approachability of its players and its and all of us, uh people who e even at the low levels of myself, it is how we can just be normal and and interact with people and and and just be very friendly. I'd love to know from your experience why do the French embrace their team so well, like club team like Bordeaux, and why is it that you know we get the privilege of watching and going to these club games and the atmosphere is just awesome. What is it that makes them do that? I suppose the it's the level of passion but it's it's in France it they're passionate about everything. They're passionate about their wine, they're passionate about their food. And and when I think I li if I was put in an English term it's I go home go big or go home. So so th they they're either support it f all in or they don't do it at all. And I I prefer I I admire that. I prefer that than just okay, let's go in. They're absolutely fully invested. Uh and it goes for everything about their country. Um so So I think that's the root call. I think to be get an honest answer or the proper answer you have to ask a Frenchman himself, and you get a more eloquent answer than me. But everything I see about their love for for the important things in life that they love, it's really driven by their love and passion. Amazing. On the topic of go big or go home, how will the region react if Bordeaux do go back to back at the weekend? Well, I mean wine supplies are going to take some stress. Uh and so I'm not complaining there. Um happy to to facilitate those celebrations. It will be fundamentally important for the team and for the city itself because then they they can then r and rightly so, claim to be in the same uh legend status, the hierarchy of the great teams that have won it so many times to lose to Lon, which I think is incredibly important in terms of bragging rights. And I see that being massive for them, to to get the two stars on the on the shirt and they would certainly wear that with even more pride. We're this amazing chateau in Bordeaux, wine region. Your vineyards are right there. And can we just sample some more? I think we're ready for a sample. Would you want to give us a tour, please? Yeah, yes, happily. Okay, let's let's go. You've earned your wine. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we'll sort that out. Thank you. We pump the grapes up here and they fall into the bats in here. Put some yeast in there and it will start to ferment. It will take about three weeks to ferment . I was I was gonna give you a gift of a bottle. That's very very kind of you. That's very very kind of you. Your first cap or your birthday? Should we go? Maybe Cap. Yeah, I think Cap is. Thank you. Alright, so it's proved it's original and that you're lucky because two thousand ten is one of the all-time great vintage. Oh good choice there. So it's a great wine. Yeah, it's vintage rubbing Very common. Thank you. Thank you for visiting. Thank you. Um because now it's traveling is going to be all pissed off, you can't drink it for about six months when you get home. You have to put it in a cold, quiet place. Yep. And um and then you can drink it for six months. And then when we get an order, we then take it into here and and and pack it . Why isn't the scrum half note the part of the side training? Okay, so I'm gonna go with sound right here . Yep. We actually made wine in Bordeaux. Made slash packed it. Yeah. And now we better drink it. Thank you very much. I mean now someone was being a bit um down to my glass sizes, so. Well thank you . Sorry it's not a fishbowl. After spending all afternoon at Mark's beautiful chateau Miam, we made our way to tonight's hotel. Would you look at that? It's another vineyard. And before the night was done, we managed to fit in just a bit more wine, surrounded by some big barrels . What a magnificent barrel over there. The next morning we ventured out for a pleasant bike ride around the sprawling vineyards. Just having a nice bike ride aren't we Cody through the vineyards? And we are heading off shortly. Next stop, Europe's largest sand dune. And gonna swing in there, check that out, and then we're off to lunch get some lunch yeah some oysters maybe oh yeah that's a good shout and then tear on down to San Sebastian yeah after that we better kick on to San Sebastian so big day ahead looking forward to it and uh been a great trip so far. The road to Bilbao continu es . With each team facing a large mountain to climb, we decided to swing by Europe's largest sand dune to gain a wider perspective on the weekend's final . Ben, it's not all fun and games in France. We need to do some form of exercise activity, burn off some of that cheese you've been eating. So I brought you to Dune de Pilat . The biggest natural Sanjo in Europe. I say natural sandjune, I don't know why you'd make a fake sandjune. It it is the French version of the pyramids. Really? I mean it's pretty impressive. Pyramids are not made. Yeah yeah, I mean when I w when I say aliens with I mean I mean what I mean is have a look at the s to the to the right of me with the camera. Look at this look at the slope . Right, so we're gonna walk up or we're gonna take the stairs. You try to be off camera, you're gonna run up it. Well I didn't know how big it was. I will walk it. That was before I got here. I was like I'm gonna run up this way. I didn't realise how massive it was. Um no we've got to go up it probably. Alright, right um if you need a break at any point because you know just let me know, yeah. I can wait. Right. Is it one small step from there? I go big steps downstairs as well, I shouldn't read them. Blow my calves out of it. Should have taken the stairs! And I think that's the thing it's the altitude that's really affecting my breathing right now. Air is very thin. You didn't pack any oxygen, did you? No. No worries. French Everest, sorry. For Everest. Yeah. That's what I really meant. It's the French Everest. Well, we conquered France's Everest. We did. And now we're on the other side of it. Just annoyed I don't bring like a flag. I wanted to sort of stake it into the ground. Correct. I'm glad we never to do pre season out here, put it that way. Oh my gosh, can you imagine? No, Ben, I can't not have to walking up it and being knackered now. Um thanks for bringing me here. I would've never done it. Very romantic. I'm glad we've done it. It's something we can look back on in our future lives and go, we've done it. Um we should probably talk about some rugby. Yeah, we should. These the final the investor championship final this weekend. Thinking back, reflecting up here, Ben. Classic finals have happened before. Well this this weekend does have the making to be a classic final. Uh right, what springs to mind? Well Leicester went back to back. Yeah. And you think that when they played that Stade Francais team away from home in the Parc de Prince. Yes. In Paris. And uh Leon Lloyd scoring right at the death. Yeah. Stimmo kicking it over, Tim Stimson. Uh year after l year after was the handback. I was there. Were you there with you? It was then, yeah. Roof closed for it, can you remember? Those iconic finals. You think about Wasps beating Toulouse right to death with a bounce of the ball, howley Howley sneaks in, Clomon Patrono is sort of waiting for the ball to to roll, and and dot it down. He doesn't. Howley, boom, try, wasps winner.. Yep Or Telly Wan which always springs to mind is of course Northampton versus Leinster. And that also was at uh Principality Stadium. That was like twenty eleven was it, Northampton raced into a lead. Came out of the blocks and were phenomenal for forty minutes. And then Leinster with all that um firepower, experience, whatever you want to put it down to, second half were phenomenal. Yep. A Driscoll of course, Johnny Sexton, uh Gordon Dar cy, uh that sort of generation, wasn't it? Yeah. It's about Leinster, I think, like the Sarries final, um, where Saracens physically beat them up, basically. Yeah, was that the final with um Liam Williams when he came up with a huge play? I think he did like a spot tackle and got a jackal, didn't you? Saracens, you know, you think they they got they won it three times. Remarkable really yes. Um The Larochell Larochelle Leinster. Lenster have had Lenster have had some heartbreak on this tournament. Well it was a seventy ninth minute pick and go was that La Rochelle were was that twenty-four, twenty-one? I think La Rochelle basically um picking and going as the clock went dead, scored, got the conversion and won the final. But yeah, that was in like La Rochelle, the town basically was all lined up in the like the marina, wasn't it they kept getting shots And then last year's of course was Bordeaux versus Northampton. Good game. I wouldn't say it's an iconic game, but a but a good game. But this weekend has the makings to be a classic. Certainly does Ben. I think if you're Leinster, I think you're actually happy that from the outside or from our expertise, I would say Bordeaux go into this as favour ites. And I think Leinster often haven't had that um going into a final where they they are underdogs. And I think it's a nice pr uh release valve for them to be able to do. Yeah. However I think Bordeaux are also chas ing their own um two final if they win two finals back to back, they enter into the sort of pantheon of like that great Toulon Galacticos team, the Toulouse teams that have won it two or three times. Like you know what I mean? They start then it's become a European Cup winner, they become start building their own sort of like legacy in regards to being an all time great, uh like the Lencer teams of old and that kind of stuff. So, you know, Bordeaux have probably got that motivation to even if they are the favourites, they have a a higher calling in some regards. Yeah, it it does put you if you not only do you win it once, but if you go back to back or win it a n a number of times, it does catapult you into a new sort of league. Dynasty. It does do it does, it does. And they've got the opportunity to do that. Sometimes in finals, like the repercussions of losing one, it can actually then have a knock-on effect to your domestic league as well. Because when you lose a final, it is it is so difficult to accept and process and you have all that emotion, you're building towards something, and you know, when it when you're in in a team environment or an individual and all these bits, like you your only ever goal is to win it. And that's all you're thinking, you almost become obsessive about going to win and this is how we're going to do it. And you're building that emotion. You know the big game. You you can't wait for it. You're exactly where you want to be. You're just in the stadium, repercussions, pressure with your teammat es, you know, and then when you don't quite get there, oh like the emotional dump is huge. And then actually the repercussions of that, because you know, with after this final, they've still got domestic stuff to take care of. You go into these games thinking you're invincible and you can win these games and you know winning's a habit and then as soon as you lose on the big stage it does put doubts in your mind about the rest of the season and that motivation's gone. So um yeah, I mean we never played in the final at Leicester. I remember coming close. We played in the semifinal but I also remember I wasn't involved, but I played the Premier final the week before, which we'd won, and then we lost to Leinster away in Edinburgh the week after and it basically we should have celebrated. We never celebrated the Prem Final because you're onto the um the Champions Cup final and then we lost that and it kind of just the whole season was a waste in some regards. And we didn't celebrate the pre the final, winning the final. We didn't get into the final because you'd lost it just that whole season was almost we look at it as a negative and it's only about twenty years later you looking actually going out get to the final because again we thought next year we'll get to the final next year get to the final and like we never did. You c you can think it it's going to be the norm. Uh the other thing as well, like if you know for the losing finalists, the natural thing is say, right boys, we've got to go win the league now. You know, we've got to go win our league. Actually you there's almost more pressure again on you. Like where if you win it, the momentum stays, you s you celebrate but you know your momentum and you've got a trophy uh because it frees you up when you win it frees you up so when you freeze it actually tightens you up because of the more pressure for the next so you win it's like you've won a European final and you can almost like yes you won in your best league but you've won the big one and you can r relax and go we've won trophy this year we're just gonna swing at the rest of the games and obviously if you win Europe you're a very good team so but like you free that team up and and play and like you then go to those games with confidence that you win, whereas like I say you lose and those doubts come back to haunt you, you can come back to haunt you and and yeah, you have to have a massive to come back after losing the final and win something domestically, it takes a sign of a quality team, but the ability to build bounce back and do that is massive. Do you think, given that Leinster have been on the receiving end of a number of investing champions cup final losses, is there a psychological barrier for them? I would say yes, and I but I would say no. I do think there are every team you play in, you go, This is our you know, this is our own history, this is our team, it's not the other like there are things changed, teams change. Like Leinster has taken the core of the team has stayed the same. But I'm sure every tight year they play, they'll be like, This is our year. No matter what's happened before, it's you know, battle hardeners for this year. Everything you sort of do is like it's just part of the process and sometimes teams have to go through losses and defeats to get to the final end and it makes it all the more sweeter. So I'm sure playing that in their minds going like, you know, whatever's happens before, this is our year, we'll turn it around. But again, I think there's a difference in Leanster this year in the fact that they are probably the underdogs. Um you know I mean the whole fruit they haven't been overly convincing for they've built slowly for out the the group stages they normally we've said in the history like they normally run through 'em like hot knife through butter, they just dominate them, get to the pool stages, they dominate them, they play at home, sorry, they get to the knockout stages, they play at home, they dominate those games and they get to a final that becomes a bit sticky. Whereas they've actually had to work through the tournament this year and they gain momentum and I'm sure for the first time in a long time they are seen as potential underdogs and you know that might suit them. We've spoken about some classic games, finals. We've spoken about the finalists and the repercussions of winning to losing and you know what a great game that's gonna be. I think we should pick our ultimate fifteen European Investic Champions Cup players. Yeah. I'm just thinking that the this team I'm gonna do off the top of my head. They have to play in the final. Yeah, have to play in the final. And I say it's but again I'm just torn between picking players that have a legacy in the competition of play in the final or performances in the final and Oh yeah I'm just gonna go off the top of my head. So let's go maybe we should do it like a all time one and then at some point we can revisit it later in our journey and actually look at the individual performances within the finals. It could be different. But yeah, let's do that. Right. Luce Edwise we'll start the forwards, most important people. I'm thinking it's Mako or Kean Healy, Mako Vinopolo Saracens, Kean Healy, Leinster. Yeah, that is it's between those two, isn't it ? It is. I am gonna go I'm gonna I'm just gonna say Mako. He won it three times as Saracen'cause I think Keene Healy obviously to himself but um I I think what what Mako did as a loose head and his ability to not only do the set piece stuff but actually play and ball play and all the skills. And he was a big pla game player. Like he really was. I agree. So I'm gonna put Mako in there. Mako, let's move on to Hooker. Hooker I'm thinking Rafa Ibenez. Yeah, he's probably the first name that in my springs to mind. Like front of the line out against Leicester, he did it twice iconic moments, yeah. Iconic moment and um yeah. Let's get him in there. Yeah. Rafa Ibanez. T tightered. Feels like Carl Heyman or feels like it's too long. Yeah. I think he's um yeah, playing those Glatsco teams, he was like best tighter in the world for a long period of time and winning those finals, yeah. So we'll stick him in there. Right, second row. I think there are so many. So listeners, viewers, put in the comments who do you think? Off the top of my head, right? I have two in mind who I think I would pick, but we're looking at the options, I think if like the Fabian Pelouse, I think of like a Marrow from the Saracens teams, I think of Will Skelton for those two LaRochelle teams, I think of Backeys both are in the uh Toulon team, but I'd have to stay close to my upbringing and go Martin Johnson. And I'd also probably then look at like a Paul O'Connell from the Monster teams. Yeah . Paul O'Connell. Like icon . Uh like Monster, like steep history in the competition. So yeah, I agree with that. Let's go with those two. Let's lock them in. Back row. This is even more difficult. So I'm thinking like Harry Nordicky, Serge Betson, um Terry Dus atois Nianga. I mean thinking of like the um Stefan Armitage in the Slon team. We've got to put Stefan Armitage in actually. He you know winning it with Toulon three times, he was incredible for that team. So he goes in. Yes. Should we put him at seven? Yeah, put him at seven. Steven Armage at seven. Aldrit. Did we go Aldritch from the La Rochelle teams? Yeah, I don't I think DeLalio. You know, with Woss captain winning it um twice. Yeah, Lawrence, I think he has to be the eight. Steph at Steph at seven, Lawrence at eight. Yeah. Six, I'm thinking Du Satois, he is your favourite player. He is my favourite. And often makes our list. So yeah I've I've got to say Harry Nordicky though, like the iconic face mask he wore in that game, like he was unbelievable for beer it's so um obviously went to losing in the latter end of his career. But should we go a Thierry Ju Stoire 6? If in doubt, Thierry's in. That's a great pack. Yeah. Right, now the exciting part, the back line. Number nine, no doubt about it. You can't even question me about it, Dmitry Ashvili. He is my version of your version of Terry D'Ustois. Okay. So Yashville is just he was so good. So good. And he was so important for that Birritz team. Ten. Johnny Wilkinson. I mean you could go Sexton . Um Wilkinson. The Galacticos team. Yeah. He's in there. Centres. Centres, sorry. Yeah, 100% without doubt. I'm thinking a bit rogue here. I'm thinking of like Yannick Joseon. Yann Yo, I go Yan Yo, yeah. He was an iconic player as I was growing up. Like a big piece of kit, isn't he? What about Fraser Waters? Yeah. You know, like didn't didn't ever really get international recognition, but it was so important at Was Yeah. I I I I Damien Try for Beerett's Gordon Darcy. Yeah, I'll get yeah, no. He played thirteen a bit as well, but we're sticking a bit at twelve. Yeah, so you can go twelve. Right, back three. Back three. Alex Good at fullback, I'd say. Yes. Three time winner with Saracens and Iconic celebration where he wore his kit for the next four days, whatever it was. Yeah, do you know what he's going he's going on that like he's going in there anyway for what he's done, but also on that alone he should he should go in there as well. Which leaves us with the wingers. Recency bias, LBB, it we could put him in there and in ten years time he could be world's greatest ever winger, so we could put him in as a you know a shot to the future. He he he's on track to become an icon of the game. And um I'd say we're from Leinster Michael Czech said he was one of the most important players he signed one in terms of just bonding that whole getting that whole team together and being um putting them over the top. So yeah. I think Nassau we're getting our team. Yeah, I think that rounds it up quite nicely. Please comment below if um let us know if we made mistakes. Who else would you have in there? Who have we forgotten about? Because there pl'senty. And we've done it, we've done it pretty quickly off the top of our heads there. And we've just climbed a sand dune. And we're we're trying to um yeah, we've got altitude sickness. So there's a lot of French noise. Noise. Do you know what I'm thinking on this trip? Is we've got to go past Beer It's I should probably see if Dimitri Ashvili's around and fancies a glass of rouge with me and you. You should probably mesh in for the tenth time and see if he gets back to you. I'll drop him another message. I've been observing people run down the French Everest. I think it's the easiest way to get down is to run. It's a bit of a skip though. It's like a need some gallic flair. Yeah. Shall I set us off? Go on then. Really done. That's quite bowled. I'm worried about this bloke here. Yeah, he's he's seen me and he's now moving out the way. Right, I'm ready. See ya. Come to the right spot cold . Ben , I've bought you to pour de la ros and uh we're at the the Rue Choo Choo restaurant slash oyster shack for a bit of an experience. Thank you mate. I appreciate it. You've you've sourced this well. I have. I mean they're literally as f they cannot be any fresher. Correct. This is a major part of uh this region's economy. Once upon a time I think 1700s, 800s there was 10,000 oystermen. Used to go out and work, go out to the beds that they have out around the island and they come back. Today it's only about 370, 380 apparently. And um yeah. It's a good breeding ground for oysters around Europe apparently. Um a lot of them got killed off uh I think in the 70s or something like that by pollution and the Portuguese oysters died off, so they're to bring the Japanese variants. But yeah, it's been a uh interesting so far. And we're gonna eat some now as well. Oh I'm I'm looking forward to it. So thank you. Thank you for sourcing this. Um Right, rugby stuff. The last four winners have all been French teams. Yeah. And there's possibility that isn't gonna stop. Correct. Um why are they dominating? I think money has a massive part to do it. I think you look at the French television deal, it's humongous and dwarfs and anything else. Out there, I think there Why why do you think that is? Because it there's a people want to watch it. Yeah. There's a demand for it. There's a massive demand for it. It's like the number one sport in this part of the country. And France's obviously a big economy. And also I think you look at the I think probably in England, if you have a lot of money, you buy a football team for the not the ego but you're part of that whereas I think in in France there's a lot more business than buy the rugby teams that are the several billionaire owners, but also like as you're part of the community, if you come from say a Bordeaux or um I know sort of Clement Learn say Michelin but like you're part of the community and everything rallies around you, the teams, the community. So it's part of showing off the area I think and that's what we see. And we talk about how the passionate things are. It's just passionate but on a massive multi million uh euro scout. It's concern that that there's a potential that teams are going to be left behind. Like cause I look at it and I think But for me I think that's for that's not a French rugby problem. No, it's for other teams to catch. Yeah, and that's it that that is true. It is for other teams to catch up. What do you think it's gonna take for an English team to win this tournament? For me the the cap issue in terms of the the difference like it's it's considerable the size . I think you look at that, you also look at the format of the season because of the the cap size, so therefore you don't have the depth in players and therefore a lot of clubs, certainly in England, they almost prioritise their domestic league over the European League and the reason they do that is because they can't almost afford to lose bodies, they can't afford to lose injuries, they can't afford for players to play that amount of games and not try and protect them. So that has a massive uh effect. You look at the way that the system's done in terms of the the um the six nations, they finish that tournament, they have to have a mandatory rest within the first three weeks of that. So what do you do if you dominate the the league? Thank you very much, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Um if you dominate the um yeah, so we're just we're just getting our uh order arriving. Thank you. So it's just uh thank you. He's um just laying out get getting our preparation colleague. You look at the league, right? And you look at the fact that you know mandatory rest after six nations has to happen within the first three weeks. Now if the club is taking the league more seriously than our Europe or they feel that they cannot go far in the compet ition. Because Leicester, for instance, they they they scrape through as like the the the last uh le last qualifier team on points. And on the back of that, oh fantastic, it's arriving.. Voilà monsieur Thank you very much. Right, oysters have arrived. Pâté traditionnel et uh rillette de canard. Duck. Duck. Duck. Thank you. And bread and bread. Lovely. Thank you very much. Bon appetite. Merci. Thank you. Thank you. Amazing. Amazing. Well just h hold my thought for a second. Um I'm just gonna get a I'm gonna get an oyster in. Off the top. Oh yeah. Amazing. Nice . Gotta go straight from the I'm gonna have a little bit of lemon. Yeah. Thank you very much. Nussy. The uh the white wine there's just going in so nice. Yep, now you can You have to cut muscle, yeah. Yep is the best. With a knife, like this, and cut muscle, and very good . Wow. Well that's how it's done. Straight down the hatch. Which I am now gonna do that. Now just for the uh record, Ben's cutting his oyster oyster a well-known Africadiac due to high levels of zinc and things, so if Ben gets a bit excited after this. Or if you start giving me a funny look. Right. Bottoms up. You can taste the the sea. I can taste the sea. That's hit the spot. That's delicious. And thank goodness we've got another ten or twelve to eat. Correct. How lucky. With the sun is really good. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Fine. Very good. Thank you very much. Perfect. Oh thank you. Thank you very much. We've got to look after Coley's bald head. Owner and um I'm assuming he's the owner and the chef and the catcher and does everything recognises that the sun is peeking through and he's most concerned about your bald head. Now French hospitality, we're well looked after. Back to the the key for me You have to it doesn't, but you have to get through as we've seen with like a bath in the semi-finals and stuff, you have to get through your group and hopefully get home. Home time for a knockout is key, I think, for initially we saw uh seven out of eight games were won by the home team in the last sixteen. When you get to the um quarterfinals, semi-fin als, finals, it becomes a bit more of a one-off game. And like with all Northampton in Leinster, you have to have a bit of magic, but you can English teams can perform in those one-off games. I think the the the as we said before there is the attritional nature of the European Cup is you have to rest players and sometimes because English teams maybe don't back themselves to win it you don't take it as seriously or as as hard as the French teams you don't have the squad depth to be able to do that like Baldur haven't lost you know in the group stages in two years or something like that. So yeah, I think that's the thing, but I think once you get to one off games, there is chances. The the only thing I would say is those one off games against the French teams, like they have some of the biggest best athletic men in the world. Well it's that Bordeaux Pac we went there and the um quarterfinals and you're looking at Ben Tamy Foon who's 150 kilos, Sardi's 140, you don't get those guys in the premiership. Yeah, you very rarely they've got two in one team. You barely get that. You look at the the second round Coleman who played the premiership but he's a massive lump as is Paulou. You look at the physicality of those teams. We said Leo Leo Berry is a he's a tall man. He's not small, is he? And then we'll look at Toulouse and we talk about Joulange, how big he is, and like you look at Toulon and they have ribbons and like they have big men. Olivant's a big man and they,'re kind of like English teams probably don't have that size that the French teams do. So when it comes to an armrest, like we've seen in the finals with uh La Rochelle, they're not. Yeah when you think Skelton and Winnie Antonio and and those big bodies, Botia. Like and that's it like you're you're right because actually when you compare it from an English point of view is if you were to say Bath for instance, their biggest player is Thomas de Toy, right? The big human. But the the French teams have two or three of Thomas de Toys and in fact they have a loose head and a tight at that point. They don't have scrumming ability. They don't have skill set in that high level, but at the same time they have two or three guys that are just as big and the drop-off between their first and second choices probably isn't as big as some of the premiership drop-offs from our starters to adventures. But it'd be interesting if you did it split it up and almost had like a pure winner of the premiership. When were when it 's had like a if you split it up and had like well a one-off winner of the Prem versus top 14 winner and you didn't go through Europe in the group stage is what would occur and it's a I think the English should have a better chance there than they would probably the long drawn out nature of the group stage and the knockouts. It's the grind of the the the accumulation of load for those players and with the cap they don't then have the depth to be able to manage that group yeah and and that is that's the key. However I do think if you can get through if you like we've seen with Bath Northampton previously if you can get through then you get the knockout stages in one-off games English teams have the ability to win them and you know in one-off games say it every finals it just takes a bit of luck or a bit of bounce a ball somewhat that to win and we've seen that with again we're going back to when wasp speed to lose, like the bounce of the ball at the end of the game, you win the game. And that's you know, sometimes you need that in final terms, but that's the magic of Europe . With the effects of the oysters imminent, we decide it's best we get across the border into Spain. Don our wetsuits and dive into the surf of San Sebastian. I'm very excited to go uh surfing. I've done it a few times on tours and always been always enjoyed it. It's been great crack. I don't have a clue how to do it. He can't even do his up. That's a large they've got, it doesn't fit him at all. Maybe pull up really high. So it'll fit if you pull up really high. So I pulled up that high. And that's my nutshell my throat. This board is weighs a ton. I'm boiling out in this wetsuit. It's hum iliating. I'm trekking through San Sebastian. It'll be fun they said. Coley, I don't know about you mate, but my understanding of surfing was you need water, sand and a beach and some waves. So far I've trekked through San Sebastian for 10 minutes. My arms kill him because this board weighs a ton. Because we'll of course we need the biggest boards because we're both terrible. Have you seen the size of those waves out there? It's like a pond . It's tiny . Oh, there we are. There's the sea. There's the surf. Do you know what? There's the surfers. I was hot and bothered, but now I'm here. I'm really looking forward to this. So we're good. Hang on, look what it looks like. The bigger nuts . Do you know what? It does look like a swap short of big American. Great looking forward. What are you doing out there? I'm off the Tablets Cup final. What about you guys? We just we love surfing. We surf all year around mate so we just thought we'd try the wash here before going to the same thing. Yes. Let's get out there, shall we? Yeah. Here all the time mate. Literally a pro. Literally a pro the following hour can only be summarised as a successful, enjoyable experience with a newfound love of surfing. For the love of surfing, Coley? I'll be visiting my local beach in Leicester. I'm hooked . Robert, just so random seeing you in this beach. What a coincidence, eh? We've got to leave you here because we've got to get to Bill Bow, but we will be seeing you tomorrow. See you you there. See tomorrow. Next stop Bilbao . As we made our way through the Basque region and into the centre of Bilbao, we could see the stadium . And that means just one thing. We've made it . We made it. We have done it. We've completed the road till Bilbao. We are here outside the San Mamez Stadium and what a impressive looking stadium it is. It is. As you drive up to it, it is amazing. Is stunning actually to be fair. As we're coming off the motorway round Bill Bower, so you can see it from a we should have crept round over the river, didn't you see? And it's a proper landmark of this city. And no. And we're here, Ben. Can we just reflect on what what we've managed to do this week and and get up to? Months in the planning has actually it's happened. And and I've loved every second of it. From the moment we set off from Cardiff to go and see our. I mean you've loved every second because you've you've been a passenger for every second. I have I have been a passenger for you. And you've been able to laugh at the Parisian driving, which you know some of us are a little bit stressed about. But yeah, no. We set off from Cardiff um and we've been to St. Albans, see Jamie George, we've been on a ferry. We have. We've been to Paris, been to Versailles. Conquered the Arctic Triomphe. We should have actually. Versailles, Versailles, we've been to La Rochelle, stopped at Lemoor along the way. And Smash the World Record times. Go karting to predict you know for the over hundred and twenty kilo. To predict the the result of the weekend. Yeah. And then you know we've been at down to the street Yeah. So you had a great time at Nolsey. Uh and then carried on down. We've been to Wine tasting. Wine tasting, we'd seen San Junes, we've seen Saul Mark. Oysters . Saw Mark. Again, yeah, we'd learnt about a lot about the history of rugby. Um and yeah, and then we've carried on down falling surfing was great. Robo. What a well it cheated a bit with the wind sail, but uh it's fine we uh the w the winds on the front of his shots seem to catch the wind they just kept him on the board a bit longer. Um yeah so and then from there we have made it to Bill Bow ahead of the Investic Champions Cup and you know what? It is gonna be an absolute belt. My excitement for the game is already built. I say now I'm in the stadium, like it's been building anyway this week, just thinking about it, but now we're outside the stadium. A we're here, which is amazing. I say everywhere place every place we've been so far has been awesome. And yeah, no, I'm just excited. This place full of 50 odd thousand fans. Noise it's gonna make. I can't wait. And a big thanks to the Jacob. Oh yeah. And its super hybrid engineer. I say we the super hybrid system, we filled her up with a charge and a full tank of fuel in Basai, and she hasn't skipped a beat. But impressive. The amount of waves and flow, we've got a few , we've got a few uh insect dead bugs on the front, but that's fine. Um, because we've been we've been through Wales, England, France, and now we're in northern Spain. Haven't skipped a beat. Uh we've had lots of waves and flashes. A lot of flashes, beeps, stuff That's not my bad driving, that's the actual car. And yeah, it's been great and I say. We should do it again sometime. Maybe this time next year. We've got to, haven't we? We've got to. And thank you so much for everyone for listeninging, for watch and enjoying our journey. It doesn't stop. It doesn't stop because we've got two awesome games to come this weekend. Friday night, of course, and Saturday, and we'll be covering everything. And you can watch them both on Premium Sports. You did all the driving, and I was in charge of snacks. And what did I say at the very start? You're in charge of snacks. Correct. And I had a bottle of Rioca. Ready to open to celebrate the moment we got here. That's why we stopped. So nice. Let's uh let's get a glass. Perfect. And toast what has been a terrific trip so far. Ben's got something hard between his legs. He's giving it a twist and something's about to pop out of it. He's uh Ben is opening a bottle of wine basically between his legs. Uh hola . And chuck. And this man here. Uh we're just speaking to the locals. Whoop. Pop . Oh And now we've done Bordeaux, so we know exactly. We we do. We've uh done wine tasting . It's one for you dear friend. Thank you . And now it's one for me . It's quite a big one, Ben. It's not bad glass either. Um we love it. Like and subscribe. Cheers. Cheers . You know what's missing? No Ben. What is missing this from perfect moment? Some steak. Let's go find a steakhouse. Let's do it . Full of love of one .