Retirement and Legacy in Tennis

This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross. My guests, Chris Evet and Martina Nv Tolova were the greatest female tennis players of their generation They were friends and they were each other's greatest rivals in the seventies and eighties When Everet retired in nineteen eighty nine, they'd each won eighteen Grand Slam victories, and they'd each been the top ranked female player in the world seven times. Nevertilloa retired in two thousand six Now they're the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina, the final set. It tells the story of how they interacted as friends and as opponents, and how their friendship went cold for an extended period when their rivalry became more fierce When they were each retired, their friendship deepened as they both faced cancer and were able to support each other. Everet was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in twenty twenty one Nyvralova was diagnosed with throat and breast cancer in twenty twenty two. The same year that Evet had a recurrence When I spoke with them a couple of weeks ago, they were both in remission But late last week Evert disclosed, she just been diagnosed with a recurrence of ovarian cancer Here's how the interview went a couple of weeks ago Chris Eve Martina Etalova, what a pleasure to have you on fresh Air. And really like the documentary is so good, both in terms of your friendship, your rivalry, but also the excerpts of matches between the two of you that are just spectacular to watch. So congratulations on that. Thank you. Thank you I mean, what are the odds you'd have cancer at the same time and be a short drive from each other in Florida? It's really amazing Yeah, this is Chris. Freaky. I can't even I can't get away from her. You know, everythingthing happened with us. We had a fifteen year career And then we got cancer at the same time and It really is freaky, but you know, I always say if I want someone to be in the trenches with me, it's Martina because she has been so supportive and so understanding and so such a calming, you know, voice to talk to Yeah, we have we have such a level of trust that we know whatever we say to each other, it stays there We know where they give each other the best advice. We know how to And there' no there's no ulterior motive for no, you know, no playing games. And that's how we like it. because I think we both have had so many people, Oh, you're great, this and that. they don't you know, they don't give you the real story But we've always been honest with each other on that front So you both have or had athletes' bodies And Martina, one of the things you were known for at some point in your career was basically builduilding your body, you know, just like intense like four hour a day u training to make your body stronger And then Chris, you ended up doing a very similar thing to keep up with Martina And when you had cancer, you were really weak. I mean, it was hard to just walk. What was it like for you as athletes She live in a body. That wasn't functioning, that was very weak. Well, for me, I mean, so Chris's diagnosis and treatment was much more life threatening than mine, percentage wise. But my treatment was more difficult physically, I think. I brought my yoga mat with me. I was in New York for seven weeks and I literally sat on the yoga mat, maybe half an hour of the seven weeks and did some stretching I couldn't even do the down doog post because I would have fallen down. I had absolutely zero strength left. But the longest thing that took was the taste, which I love to eat, so that was tough. But you know, we're athletes, so we want things to happen right away It was almost a year before I had full taste buds coming back But it all came back. But Chris was Well, youd talk about what you went through. Well, I think the chemo you know, kick my butt. let's put it that way. And, you know, when you think about don't I don't want to use the word poisons, but the toxins it's killing the good cells as well as the bad cells. And it left me very weak, very, very weak. After a chemo, I would have three or four days of intense nausea, and I just would feel tingling in my body and it just wasn't nice And I didn't have the energy, I mean, to walk six blocks was a big deal for me. U and it was foreign, you know, it felt like it wasn in my body for sure. Yeah. What were you able to do to support each other through the cancer and its treatment You know, there are a lot of phone calls between us and Martina, who is the cook in the relationship, I don't cook, but Martina would bread for me and her wife, Julia would cook make some chicken soup. So I a lot ofress Yeah. I got a lot of food from Martina. She got necklace from me. Yeah. I get jewelry from Christ. She gets food from me. But you know, Martineas in my relationship because we've had one for fifty years is not the type where we have to talk to each other every day to maintain the closeness. I always knew she was there. She always knew I was there if we needed to talk. And that was that Martina, you knew that something was wrong when you felt a lump in your throat But, um It was my my lymph node. It was your? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, the Tumor was in on my tongue based on my tongue, but I did not feel thatad. I just felt a swollen lymphode Right, And that's what got youition to be tested But Chris, you weren't symptomatic, but your sister Jean had died of ovarian cancer And she had a genetic mutation and you wanted to see If you had the same thing Do to get that right? Yeah. yeah, I'll tell you the story to that. My sister, Jeannie was traveling with me to Singapore and we were running to the gate But I look back and Jeannie was huffing and puffing and not running And I said, Genie, what's the matter? She's an athlete And she said, I don't know. I've just been out of breath the last few weeks. and I just don't know. I think maybe I have a lung you know infection or something. And I said, Well, did the doctor say that? And she goes, No, I haven't been to a doctor. So I said, Jeennie, you know what? we're going to Singapore for four days. and when we come back, you are going to the hospital right away and get this tested because something's not right. So she said, okay. So she went and first she got her genetic testing and believe it or not, she did not everything turned out fine. She didn't have the Broca gene, but she had a variant that was of uncertain significance. whichich means it hasn't been tested enough know there's not enough case studies. And so they said, know, she doesn't haveaca. So you don't need to be tested. So nobody else in the family was tested Unfortunately, Jeannie left it too long and Um, When she went in, she had stage four of varian cancer, and it had spread everywhere in her body. And She ignored the symptoms because like most women who are nurturers, they're caring about their kids and their husband and their family, they forget about themselves and that's probably one of the messages, I want to get out there. if you feel anything different at all slightly, go get it tested So After my sister died two years later I get a call from the geneticist and they said, Do you remember that? variant that your sister had of uncertain significance. Well, is that has changed and now that's basically cancerous. And it's Baca So may we recommend that you and your family go get tested. Next day I went got tested. I had the Bckagine in me. and that week I got a hysterectomy and they took it all out. but the results came back and they said, unfortunately, you have tumor in your ovaries and you have tumors in your fallopian tube And I was like, are you kidding me? And they said, but you know, it's stage one. you got lucky. you got it early. And by the way, I had had blood tests, I had had internal sonograms, I had, know everything that you can imagine Um, and Nothing was detected as far as ovarian cancer. and I felt fine. I felt no symptoms So that was my story. And it's like You know, so I had the brroachogene, then I got I had a hysterectomy and then later on I had a mastectomy because you have a seventy percent chance of getting breast cancer if you have the broachogene Did you freak out, Martina when you were diagnosed U yeah. Yes, I did. So I felt that my lymphone was swollen. So about two weeks later, it's still there swollen. So I called my doctor and he says, we need to get a biopsy and this was on a Tuesday. by Thursday or Friday we'll know. So Friday, I don't hear anything. I call him. And he called back like five minutes later. he says, the lymph node is HPV, but the tumor could be anywhere. He literally said it could be in your lungs or your kidneys or your liver and I'm oh my go, you know, I could like not see next year U So I totally freaked out over the weekend. this is Friday afternoon And then I find out Monday, oncologist calls me and he says, well, it's HPV and it's definitely just in your throat. It's not anywhere else. And the cQ rate is ninety five percent And I was so relieved. I had like the worst weekend of my life from what the original doctor said, and then the oncologist said, It's gonna be nasty. It's not nice We need to find out where the tumor is, but it's somewhere in your throat. So Good news, bad news. And and then when and then so we scheduled a CD scan And so then they inject you to see where the tumor is and they said, okay, so we found the tumor, it's at the base of your tongue on the left side size of about maybe two two centimeters, almost an inch. I didn't feel it. And also your right breast lit up. So I know it's cancer Unrelated to that, another I suen had biopsy on the breast and it's completely different cancer, tumor about a centimeter Same thing, notothing showed. I did not feel anything. The mammogram, the day of the surgery still didn't show the tumor So even with the mammograms that we have, they're amazing. they still didn't find it. Only Ultrasound found it So then I had to figure out, okay, what do we do now? You know, then you get into the solution, what's the sequence of cure because I had two different cancers that went unrelated. I did the gene testing, I have nothing I was just this is my third cancer second and third cancer that I've had. Unrelated to each other. So he you had breast cancer in twenty ten? In twenty ten, yes in the documentary We see you in the present you're still like recovering, but you're done with the treatment and you're in I'm not sure what room you're in, whether it's one of your living rooms or someplace else, but you're watching playback, like video playback of some of your matches together, you, of excerpts of some of your matches together. The playing is spectacular. Um and What was it like? What were you seeing And what was going through your mind as you are at this point like Close to seventy. I think that's about how old you were. Looking back at when you were in your prime And and we're rivals battling it out on the tennis court For me, it was fun watching with Chris because we had different reactions to what happened on the court. But what impressed me is how well we play with those wooden rackets becausecause you know what, those rackets are not easy to play with. But tryrying to put yourself in there physically what it was like, mentally what it was like And it's like, oh, I should have gone down the line or I can't believe I missed that shot or Chris, you had such a great pass. It was amazing So it was impressive. I was and the bodies, yeah, I'm like, I wish I could still have that six pack. Yeah, I think I mean, I had to emotionally get myself back. to that time, you know, that time of my life you know, I I I think when I watched you watched two different matches. one Martina one on the grass And I notice that I was winning quite handily. I had control the match and then I had a sitter and I hit it down the middle and Martina kind of ran into it because I didn't mean to hit her in the head, even though Some people may think I did, but Martina kind of was trying to cover that shot. So she ran and I hit her in the head And it was like a comic relief a little bit, you know, because we were both so stressed out, comic relief. But Unfortunately for me, she came to life after that m after that point. And then she just played you know great grass court tennis and beat me And I remember feeling genuinely happy for her. I remember it was her first Wimbledon. That's always been her dream since she defected. Her family couldn't be there to watch her. She was all alone. and I just was happy for it And I knew that this was going to be one of many for her to win. In my match, the French O, I rembember that that was in ' eighty five and that was the happiest I've ever been winning a major because I had had a two point a hal year drought against Martina and hadn't beaten her Everybody counted me out and never thought I'd win another major, and I did. And I went back to the gym and worked out and came into the net, had some new strategies to play So we both kind of Um redefined ourselves and our games because the other one was number one at the time and we made each other better at the end of the day So I'd like you to each evaluate each other's strengths and vulnerabilities fromr your point of view as the opponent Well, for me, Chris was the epitome of mental toughness and poer face. She controlled her emotions on the outside one hundred percent, you never knew if she was winning or losing. She was just so controlled and I still wasn't. So I always admired that. couldn't believe that she could keep it together like that And and her concentration levels, she never gave anything away as far as points. you had to earn it So I knew every time before we played each other and whether winning or losing, I knew it was going to be a long, long Physical match Nothing physical in my game was any good? Well, yeah, you never missed. So And she ran everything down. And then later, when she got older, she shortened the points and took the net away from me. But yeah, it was emotional. Okay. I think with Martina, she was like unbelievable athletes. So basically her movement, her power from her shots, she had a great forehand and a really tricky serve to return herer backhand was her weaker side and you know, I try to extend rallies and keep her at the baseline because I felt like You know, she would I could wear her down and eventually she'd miss. and she would get emotional sometimes in matches and I felt like that was sort of a feather in my cap. Later on at the end of her career, obviously she really improved in that area You each started really young. Chris, you were five, you were trained by your father who was a tennis pro And he's to come with like a cart of tennis balls and throw them your way so you can hit them back Martina, you started training in Czechoslovakia at age four. You started five you were five too. Yeah. And it was your father or a stepfather who trained you? My stepfather And so you was my father. You both trained hard At the time when you were training, which obviously really paid off U didid you want to go out and play with friends instead of constantly training Did you think at the time I'm missing my childhood? or did you think that in retrospect My mother used to pick me up from kindergarten, and I used to go to Cara Bennett's house, my girlfriend down the street and go swimming in her pool, which was a novelty and have barbecues at night. and I really had a great afternoon All of a sudden my mom started picking me up a kindergarten and bringing me to Holiday Park so that my dad could throw tennis balls. That's where your dad was. My dad my who was my tennis pro and tennis coach, used to throw balls and I would, you know, repeatedly hit, you know, hit the tennis ball. So he was teaching me how to play tennis I remember five years old feeling very resentful and very bitter and very upset And but there's nothing I could do about it because my dad was my dad, and he was the he was a disciplinarian and he was the head of the family. So I had no say It wasn't my choice to go over and play As time went by, interesting enough, more and more kids came to Holiday Park and I met girlfriends and I played with the girls. I played tenn with the boys. it really became a great little spot to have friendships and also to play tennis and to get better. So I mean, that feeling went away quickly. And as soon as I started winning ten and under tournaments and twelve and under tournaments, You know, I had the fever and I knew that I really loved it and I love to win Yeah for me, it was different in that I did not play everyday at all growing up. first two years since I was five, I was just on the hitting against the wall And when I was seven when I could hit the Obvious my grandmother's racket someone I could finally hold the racket with one hand I was just hitting two hundred backac ends against the wall, then I got on the real court. and then when I was nine, I got a coach who taught my father how to teach tennis And in the winter we didn't play at all from like October versus on clay in Europe and so from October to April, I did not play tennis at all until I was maybe ten years old and I would go once a week for an hour In the winter, that was it. and during the summer And in the winter I was doing cross training because I was playing hockey. I was you know, I was skiing, climbing trees. In the summer I would swim in the river ride my bicycle everywhere, but I didn't really play tennis on a daily basis until I was like fifteen, sixteen years old It was just completely different for me My guests are Chris Evet and Martina Nvtolova The new Netflix documentary about their friendship, their tennis rivalry, and having cancer at the same time in the twenty twenties is called Chris and Martina, The final set They were in remission when we recorded our interview a couple of weeks ago But last week, Everet disclosed she'd just been diagnosed with a recurrence of ovarian cancer We'll hear more of the interview after a break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross Let's get back to my interview with Chris Evet and Martina Evretolova who were tennis champions in the seventies and eighties They spent much of their careers as friends and as the greatest rivals A new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina The final set is about the challenges of that dual relationship. and about how they supported each other when they were each diagnosed with cancer at about the same time in the twenty twenties When I recorded this interview with them a couple of weeks ago They were in remission But late last week, Everett revealed she hadd just been diagnosed with a recurrence of ovarian cancer Chris, in nineteen seventy, when you were fifteen, you defeated the number one ranked women's professional player in the world, Margaret Court And you became famous for being so good att age fifteen. How did that affect your sense of who you were And what your life would be like. I want to know You know, fame at a young age and success is not a good recipe for emotional and mental development and growth. It really isn't because I did beat Margaret Court, and then all of a sudden, I was getting a lot of attention. and people were coming up and patting me on the back and telling me how great I was. and peopleeople were allowing me to get away with things and it went to my parents allowing me to get away with things as well You know, I just think before you develop a personality and you develop principles and boundaries, you know, when you're a kid And everyone's telling you that you're the greatest ever. I just think that it just is very, very confusing and very detrimental to you know, to your health. And in those days, we didn't have psychiatrists and therapists and you know we didn't have the resources that today's game has You know, Marty and I had to do this all ourselves, all figure it out all by ourselves. And my parents weren't that much of a help because they had never been in my position. So it was like it was very strange. and I think it affected me, you know later on in my life when it came to relationships. Chris you had to go to school, I think the day after the Margaret Court match I did. I did. What a clash of worlds that was. Yeah, I mean, I did. and, you know, I was people, the kids were looking at me different likeike I was very honestly, I was very shy and I wasn't outgoing and I wasn't confident in myself. I was a bit insecure I wasn't the popular girl, and people were looking at me and kids were looking at me. and You know, so I felt like an outsider actually And then, you know, as years went by and I started playing tournaments and the press dubbed me, you know, they labeled me, gave me an image, littleittle Miss Ice Maiden, you know, Cinderell and sneakers, littleittle Miss Iicicle and becausecause I was very cool and calm on the court and composed, they thought I was cold and how could this be a schoolgirl being this cold? And so they gave me an image. And honestly, when you're young, you start living within your image. It's just easier Martina, when you played your first match in the U. S, I think it wass the first time you'd been to the U. S. from Czechoslovakia and travel was so restricted after the Russians invaded What was that first tournament like for you? L you weren't really speaking the language. you were basically alone. I think Chris had already like you know, befriended you and was helping kind of acclimate you But tell me what that first match was like. And was that against Chris No, no, no no. So the first tournament I had to play qualifying to get into the draw I was sixteen draw. ended up winning it, of course But I won my first round match. I got qualified and I won the first round match, and then I lost in the quarters But I was thrilled to be in the States. I always loved American cars. And when you order a ham sandwich, you got like two inches of ham and two slices of bread Whereas growing up you had thick bread and one slice of ham. So I thought I was in heaven and it was two dollars thirty cents for that sandwich. I still remembered. I couldn't believe how much ham I was getting. So I fell in love with American culture because it was so there were oranges on the streets. I could pick an orange. This Florida, California. Florida. this is F Llorurdale. So I'm picking up an orange of, you know, as I'm driving down the road And in Czechoslovakia, we only had oranges once a year. For Christmas, we would get bananas and oranges. It was a treat. Normally you just get apples and pears and maybe peaches So it was like u You know, Alice in Wonderland for me. comoming to the states Chris, you befriended. Martina, you helped her. culturally, but also did you help her with her game And did you think she's gonna become my fiercest rival soon No, I did not help her with her game. She wasn't gonna to do that. You went back. Yeah. I was not a coach. I was a player trying to protect my number one ranking. And you were eighteen. I saw a very talented young Czechoslovakian player and I played her in Akron, Ohio And you were sixteen then? Yeah. sixteen I was four froment on the tour. Yeah which is in the same month that I met her And I won seven, six part three, but I remember thinking to myself Holy cow when this young girl gets into better shape, she is going to be a force to be reckoned with and very dangerous because she had so much talent She her hands were quick You know, she had a big first serve, she had a big forehand and she just was so powerful So you maintained your friendship until kind of went cold And the way the story is told in the documentary is that Martina, you had become close to Nancy Lieberman, who I think it's fair to say was like the most famous basketball she wasale basketball player of her era And I think you became romantically involved too, but she told you that you had to like Train harder, eat better and you know, trim down And she had you training like for hours a day and your body transformed Unbelievably But she also told you that it was time to stop being friends with Chris because it's hard for an opponent to be a friend. You have to just like not think about her feelings or anything and just seeee her as your rival. and I want to know from each of you, how that felt. How let's start with you, Martina, how did it feel like I can't be friends with Chris anymore Well, this happens. So Nancy Im met in April and then Nancy came with me to the French open, Eastbourne Wimbt and I lost in the semis in all those tournaments And after Wima and she says, What are you doing? What you mean? You could be in so much better shape, and you're too nice to Chris. I'm like, what are you talking about or you need to be tough and you need to Start training harder and you need to hate your opponents and you need to hate Chris. I'm like, oh, okay. And I was very, you know naive. And again, I didn't have the skills to say, no, that's I don't have to hate her. I just need to want to beat her. I was almost too friendly. But the getting in shape thing was new to me. I thought I was in good shape. and she took me on the basketball court, had me run some suicide drills. that's when I realized, okay, I'm not in as good a shape as I thought. So that summer I started training hard And then during the OS openen, Renee Richards started helping me, became my coach after the OSop openen, and that's when everything kind of changed for me. The fitness And then the coaching because for six years after I defected, I didn't have a coach. My father was my coach, but we could talk maybe once a month So he couldn't coach me. And I was on my own and that's when Renee started helping me. That's when everything changed for me And Chris, what was it like for you after Martina foollowing the advice of Nancy Lieberman distanced herself from you. I hurtful. It was very hurtful and I I don't think that was really Martina. I think she was just, you know, following Nancy's orders. and Martina, you know, was really sort of afraid to speak up to her at the same time. But in saying that U Nancy Lieberman heck of a lot for Martina Avtolova when it came to her tennis and her fitness because it was one hundred and eighty degree turn from the athlete that she was then until after she had worked out with Nancy and she was just she became unbeatable and then for the next two and a half years, you know, lost six matches. So she did her a lot of good. let's put it that way, but not in a nice way. You lost six matches I had a stretch where I lost six matches in three years That's how amazingly out playayed then. I mean, when I look at the numbers now I'm like, wow. When you're doing it, you don't think about it, but yeah, that was a pretty good stretch My guests are tennis champions, Chris Evet and Martina Nv Tolova They spent most of their careers as friends and rivals and are now the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina, The Final setet We'll be right back after a short break This is fresh air This is fresh air. Let's get back to my interview with tennis champions who spent most of their careers as friends and rivals, Chris Evet and Martina Naratolova They're the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina, The Final S. Chris Edard had been ranked the number one female player for seven years But in nineteen seventy eight, Navitolova defeated Evet in her first Grand Slam singles title at Wimbledon and supplanted Evet as the top ranked female player Niatilova went on to hold that position for almost seven years Chris, what it to your identity Because your identity was built? Ever since you're like fifteen un like being amazing, being unbeatable, being number one And when you stopp being number one, when you were losing to Martina who you had known before she was nearly that good What did it do to your sense of self you know, I mean, whether it's ego or pride or whatever it is, I wasn't happy about it I hadn't played anybody like that before. Nobody had come along with that versatility and the strength, the power that Martina had. and it was it was tough to swallow to tell you the truth But after a while kind of came to terms with it and realiz She's just too good and you can continue to work hard. Go in the gym like she does and train like she does. And you know just try to become a better athlete and chang a little bit. You started training and ye. Changeed my strategy. Yeah You took a break for a while from tennis I think I was the first one to take it was a mental break at that time because the way I described it was like I'd wake up in the morning and I didn't want to get out of bed and the thought of competing, you know, made me I just didn't I didn't have the burning desire. I didn't have the killer instinct Were you burned out and were you also discouraged because you weren't winning as much? No, no, no, no, no. I was I was burned out. I mean, you know that they call that the seven year itch in marriage. Well, there's to me, there's a seven year itch in as being an athlete And I just was mentally drained. And I need I wanted just to live life like a normal twenty four year old Yeah I was seventy seventy eight. I played twenty one tournaments and Chris played ten tournaments Martina, did you go through that seven year period? I was burned out at the end of ' eighty six and I did not know it either. It should have been red flags flying everywhere because I asked my then coach, Mike guestep. How few tournaments can out play and still stay number one Hello But I didn't know to take a break. I did not take any vacations And I played for three years burned out. and I still kept trying and the results weren't there. Then Stehie Graff comes along and starts beating, beating both of us and some ended up talking to Billy Gean. and I said, Billy, I don't know what's going on. This is now eighty nine in the spring. I don't know what's going on. I'm you know, I'm trying hard but the results aren in there and this and that. So she advised me to take a takeake a week off, just do nothing except what I want to do and see if I still feel like the love of the game that I had when I was a little girl hitting against the wall So I did that. I took a week off, did nothing, and I'm like, yeah, I still want to play I love the game. And I still feel I can get better or improve in some ways And I want to play And so that and I played six more years after that. So all it took was one week of self reflection. But I didn't know to take the break I wonder if this contributed to feeling burned out you talk about and in the documentary, you talk about how Chris was considered like the girl next door. Everybody loved her in the stands. But for you, people saw you like, well, she's the communist And she's a bully and then at some point after you were outed and she's a lesbian and that you would get some booze, you wouldn't get as many cheers as as Chris did, And that sounds a little demoralizing. Did that contribute to your feeling of burnout in? I'm sure that didn't help because I always felt like I was the visiting team. No matter where I played, you know, they were cheering for the other guy to to win or for me to lose. either way, you take it personally and it it was tricky and playing Chris was difficult because how can you not like Chris was not to admire, you know, she was she was like the epitome of cool And I was not. But then coming from a communist country, coming from a Slavic country, then of course being gay didn't help either. So and then, you know, had visible muscles and you know, it was physically stronger. posing and all of this and unapologetic. I never apologizeed for who I was. And you know, as a woman, you're supposed to be more demour and I certainly never was that. So there was just a whole bunch of stuff When you really think back, I was still kind of alone because I was not getting the help emotionally or mentally. that I could have used back then Pressure ever goes away really? And then there wass also the pressure of not being able to come out because it wasn't done. You know you No, no, no, no. I couldn't come out because it would have been a disqualifying could be disqualifying for getting my citizenship. So I couldn't come out of. I don't got my citizenship anyone. Yes S was on there. It's up to the final officer, which were I think always men who did the final interview to approve you for citizenship They can ask you whatever they want. And if they ask you, are you gay and you can't lie becausecause then that could be a disqualifier. You have to tell the truth, youre under oath And if you say yes, and if that officer deems that a disqualifying answer, then you will not get your citizenship and you're done And so I couldn't come out for that reason. Th then once I got my citizenship, I didn't want to come out because it would have hurt the tour So it was always something. I was never ashamed of who I was, but I was kind of in the closet because of these circumstances That's a lot to keep in when you're in the publice It is That is Especially when you're being booed. I mean, you're just up against so much and had so much you had to keep inside inside yourself U so U Yeah you were outed in the New York Daily News. Do you know how that happened Yeahes, so I got my citizenship, I think it was july twentieth. I go next two days later, I got my passport The next day I fly to France to play in an exhibition in Monaco And that reporter who had been asking me, are you gay or are there any lesbis? I can't talk about it until I get my citizenship. I get my citizenship. He calls me. He finds me And are you ready to talk now? I said no, because I gave him the reason about the women's tennis tour because Billi Jin King was outed about her lesbian relationship. and she was trying to save herself and you know, from losing all their sponsors sponsorships, she lost them anyway And and then the people in charge of WTA said, you know, we cannot have another scandal because they knew I wanted to come out once I got my citizenship. So you can't come out because the sponsor said they will leave the women's tour if there is another scandal So I explained this to him. I said, I can't come out because And then I said, you know're gonna print this story, right? And he said, not if you don't want me to. I said, off course, I didn't want you to am the next day or two days later, it's in the Daily newews. Martina comes out as bisexual that we are If you're just joining us, my guests are tennis champions, Chris Evet and Martina Navratolova, they're the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina, The Final setet We'll be right back after a short break. This is fresh air. This is Fresh air, and if you're just joining us, my guests are tennis champions who spent most of their careers as friends and rivals Chris Evet and Martina Nvolova. They're the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina, The fininal set. It's about their friendship, their rivalry, and then years after they both retired having cancer at the same time So I want to ask you briefly about retirement Chris, you retired in nineteen eighty nine How old are you thirty four years old. Yeah Um, How did you know it was time and how did it affect your identity? When you were no longer tennis star I mean, you were still a celebrity, but you weren't playing anymore The reason I retired was because the mental side of the game was my strength. and The focus and the determination and the hunger to win was my strength. I used it in my advantage and I didn't have it anymore. I just wanted to relax. I didn't want to have pressure, and I wanted to start a family. So the nice thing was I had something to go to And I think that made it not only bearable but attractive to me to retire. So after I retired I was married to a great guy, Andy Mill, and we had a great life and a couple years later, We started a family, and I remember every morning waking up after retirement felt like a vacation because I had the freedom to do whatever I darn wanted to do. because since I was six years old, I had a plan and I had a routine, and I was on the court every day So that was that. And you had three children in five years. You could not have done that if you were playing No, I really threw myself into motherhood and nurturing and it was so nice not to think about myself. It was so nice to care for somebody else besides myself. It was just the time for me to start to be a little unselfish and not be selfish. Martina, you played for Nine eight or nine years after that, right I retired in ninety four, then I didn't play for five years and then I played doubles for six years because I really enjoyed it And yeah, ninety four was my last year. And so I played my last match in the garden in New York in November. It was a Tuesday And my parents were with me and on Friday, my mom said I looked ten years younger because all that stress was finally gone So I think it's fair to say that you both contributed a lot to the state of women's tennis, the popularity of women's tennis because The rivalry between the two of you These two amazing tennis players playing against each other. That really attracted a lot of crowds Um And it was a thing, like your friendship and your your rivalry together. It was a thing. It was a story in the press. People wanted to see it and I'd like you each to talk a little bit about how you saw the state of women's tennis changing and what you think You contributed to that Well, for me, I could sense that Tennis was becoming more global after the Billie Jean King generation, Billie Jean, we have to give full credit to her and the original nine for really working hard to to create a tour and provide that provide a good living for women T players? and equal prize money and she was the pioneer, But we were the next generation, and they needed us also to carry the torch. So Marta and I came along, I think our rivalry brought it to another level, whole new level, because Martin and I brought our own set of fans to the plate And Martina, we were so different. She came from a communist country. I came from America. I was a baseliner, She was a certain volleyer. She was emotional. I was cool and calm. So we both had our own set of fans. and I think we brought more eyeballs to the TV and we brought more bodies into stadiums And that would, you know, and enhance the game of women's tennis What about younger players now? Do you watch a lot of tennis and you think that they're bringing something new to the table on helping to expand women's tennis? Yes. both Chris and I do commentary for different channels. So we work at all the majors. so we're still, you know have the finger on the pulse of the game. And, because of TV, tennis has become much more international. And then when you have a player from that country, then they that excels, then they they bring it to the new generation in their country and expand the map again when Lena won the Australian openpen or the French openp was the first major. she won first Chinese player first player from Asia to win a major Oh my god, tennis exploded in China and now you have a lot more players playing as Chinese players because of the of Lena paving the way for them. So every time you get a new player from a different country, it kind of expands the map in that way. Yeah And when the William S sisters came along, we have now more women of color playing and they were great influence to women all over the world. I think the players nowadays have more of a social conscience also. so they're good They're very outspoken about what's going on in the world and they're really good you know, bring these issues to their platform and talking about whether it's the mental health or whatever you know, Exactly. very sw Inlusion, you know, all this, that they tackle these subjects with class and So I think that they're very bright that way. And you know, I think it's in a good state right now Thank you both so much for being on our show and thank you for participating in that documentary because it's really good Thank you. Thank you, Terry Chris Evet and Martina Nva Tolova are the subjects of the new Netflix documentary Chris and Martina the final set We recorded our interview a couple of weeks ago Late last week, Everet disclosed she'd been diagnosed with a recurrence of ovarian cancer We send her our best wishes Tomorrow on Fresh Air, we'll talk about the conflicts between politics and the arts Our guest will be Isaac Butler, author of the new book, The Perfect Moment God, sex, art, and the birth of America's culture wars. Butler said the conflict had a transformative effect on him because at the same time the culture wars Hurtled toward their climax, art saved his life. I hope you'll join us. keepep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews Follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Briger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrew Bentham Our engineer today is Adam Stanishevsky. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited. by Phyllis Myers, Annri Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Theereresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaliner, Susan Yakkundi, Anna Bauman, and Nico Gonzaalz Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly CV Nesper. Roberto Shherck directs the show. Our co host is Tona Moseley. I'm Terry Gross.