Finding Real Happiness and Stability

This is a Global Player original podcast This episode includes discussion of sensitive topics like addiction and sexual abuse, which some listeners may find distressing Please take care while listening and feel free to pause or step away if you need to Pioneering superstar DJ, technically how good were you Um Of shit. If I' the bitchiest they're gonna love me. If I'm the loudest, they're gonna love me. Do you know what I mean? I was fakeful stop. Will you They just washed their hands with me at that point. Irving Welsh says, when the gazays started, the straight stood up and listened. It was always a whispering of so and so' not well. Our peers were all dying. Yeah. And no one ever talked about it. They all went off and died. Hello and welcome to Full Disclosure, a podcast project conceived entirely to let me spend more time with interesting people than I would ever get on the radio. And I've introduced a few guests with the observation that we'd probably need at least ten episodes to even get close to the full life lived U this week that holds particularly true. Um Tony, welcome. Thank you. I mean for people who don't know your work as a pioneering superstar DJ, they're probably going want the first explanation because you're not fat. No, but you know I was a long time ago when I was like fourteen You know, you we become fat for protection. I mean, I was always a skinny child, but then some trauma based thing happened, which is abuse. and then what happened was After the four years of abuse, I became really fat because it was like building a castle around myself So then of course, when you become that fat kid, and everyone there's other tonies in a circle of friends. everyverybody re Tony and it becomes flat Tony and then I just basically reclaim the name. They're purely descriptive. they're not even not even nasty. No, no no, it literally was that. It wasn't a nasty thing. A tall, Tony. Yeah.ony I was that. eighteen stone I was a big kid. And it was to Yeah, it' protection. it was like, okay, I don't want anyone ever to come near me again. That kind of like ful wall that we rebuild around ourselves. And although you wouldn't have known that was what you were doing at the time. You've been I mean your first book, which I mean, won all sorts of awards and reached parts that DJs generally tend not to read. I don't do requests and you're following that up now with a book that goes into all of the detail of recovery. You call it Recover mee a user's guide to overcoming insanity. So I wasn't exaggerating when I said that we'll have an hour of conversation here. and leave God knows how many avenues completely unexplored. Then they can all get and bu the books aren't they?? This is exactly right. Both books. This is exactly right. We'll begin at the beginning which was in Batessey I've got roots in Pimlico as well or So I was born in Pimico. Right and then from the age of about three we moved to Wandsworth and then from there we moved to Batathsey and then we moved to our house in Lavender Hill. Okay, so B Baty is the earliest memories there. Yeah, I kind of think, you know, that's where I grew up.rew like I did most of my growring in By as such discovering emmbarrassing Yeah. And your mum Dawn, a hugely influential figure, are your? Yeah, she's the most annoying person on the planet, but you know, at the same time, it's like she's she's eighty four now and she is a still to be reckoned with And you were in her words, and indeed, in your words, you were always a bit of a mummy's boy. Always been a mummy's boy. I mean, this morning she called me at half past seven to ay because it was my wedding anniversary yesday. Thank you. She called today to tell me she hadn't forgotten it But it's Monday she wass like, Yeahah, but I've just got I thought it was today. I said So you did forget it. No, I didn't forget it. I just didn't know what date it was and I was just like I'm not going to argue half seven in the morning about whether you forgot it or not. So gl. What was home like? because I mean, Daorwn always indulged I mean you really. She's described you as being as good as gold from a baby onwards. But your dad, from what I've read was I mean know, my slightly different character. My dad was my dad was a man's man man type. They used like, you know, fingers like bananas. He He was a plumber. And at weekends, they used to go out to the pub and he drink But he had this demon that if he drank certain spirits, i. Scotch He It demonized him So as a kid growing up where they'd go out every weekend, like, you know, every Saturday night with their mates Um, It become very violent and very abusive and very drunk. You know, alcohol infused Tuma Yeah, so growing up in that household You know, as I said before, my dad was like six foot four or five, likeike what like you didn't mess with my dad. So you tipoe Yeah you' meant to Yeah. But I mean, obviously be being the middle son and being the one that seeks the most attention because my older brother was always in trouble with the police. So he always got the attention be negative or wh still the attention And then my younger brother came along who was God's gifts, the golden child. So I was in the middle and it was yeah, it it was a tough shout to say the least, but I just caused more drama than all of them. Did the three of you get on Oh you ever still do to this day. I mean My old second man I'm such a liar. The old one Kvian, I didn't talk to him for about ten, fifteen years because he was an active addiction.. And it got to the point where I was in recovery and he's just wouldouldn't listen A that point Of my recovery I wanted to change the world, right? I was in that stage of let me change everything else, let me fix everything else, but not myself. So I stopped talking to him because he wouldn't listen. Right. Who am I to tell him what can and I' do? He's now in recovery himself. He's been in for a long time. I recently my stepfather died and I went to a funeral He's funeral. and I thought that this guy In the distance was a groundkeeper and it was my brother And I was like, who who's that And my momum was like, that's your brother Kevin. I was like, oh my God. and it just dawned on me that what a bad brother I'd been Yeah, you know, for no reason at all. We like literally just kept him out of my life. But when you were children, you got on fine. Oh, we all got on great yeah. I mean, I was in awe of him. I used to love his music taste. I used to love his music collection. I used to love the way dressed. So there's another contrast here, isn't there? Because dad, as you say, was very much a man's man and your mum who, I think had been at art school in Chelsea at some point. had quite a bohemian attitude Well my you know, she grew up in Chelsea, my dad grew up in Pimico. Big divide, like six hundred yards away from each other, but still a big divide and my mum was brought up by her mother was a school head mistress and my grandmother was a pianist. My mum was brought up by my grandmother in Chelsea. So that's how they kind of went. and my mom was really into fashion always has been and still is You know, um So it was very different. And what are your early memories of that? off the fashion sle? Oh, my mum's always immaculately dressed always had You know, in the seventies she had like permed hair and it was always different colourors and and always dressed and then when she came in for money when my grandmother died That's when fashion really took over. becausecause then it was Chanel and, you know, Hermes and You name me she had it I went through that money quite quickly. Well, you would with those labels, wouldn't you? Agar. And she had a belief in total freedom you've written about. Yeah. What did that mean Well, she just allowed me to be who I wanted to be. There was never a matter of her stopping me from doing it. I mean, like even when I was like eleven, I was like, want I want to per my hair, my mum was took me out and secretly did it. But then my dad went ballistic and was like, what does he look like? Beause my dad, I used to think that my dad was really anti who I was he wasn't he was trying to protect me He knew that I was growing up in a councll estate in Batassey He just knew he was just looking out for me. He was protecting me, teaching me the ways of life in the sense of, okay you're going to draw he's going to draw attention to him. he's going to get bullied at school and that ball rolls. And, you know so he tau me how to fight. He tald me how to stand up for myself, but I always read it as something else. So they're both coming from a place of love, but they're doing two completely different things. Your mumy ing you do the things that will draw attention to you. she loves you. and your dad is trying to get you to stop doing the things that will draw attention to you because he loves you. So I mean, when I was like at school And I got kicked out of secondary school Aful having sex with a drama teacher. Okay. it's in idotary because and it's like I literally got kicked up but I still used to leave the house every morning to go to school because my dad didn't know. So it's mine and my mum's secret And I used to leave the house and get undressed around the corner and change out my school uniform and go off to work in Kingss Road. That went on for two years before my dad found out. Before he twiged. Yeah And you were working in fashion in King's Rve? Yeah, I was working in Kingings's Rve. How old were you then? So was fourteen fifteen. So you lied about your age, presumably. Oh all the time. I' lied about my age up until I got to fifty. 'causeuse you were born in sixty six. sixty five. sixty five go. That's another life. got that. I read that wrong. You were born sixty five. And very precocious then in some ways. Awful. Yeah. I mean, literally Because you know, when you go through certain things in your life from the age of ten, I was sexualised and I lost my youth. I lost those four years which were really the learning curve is From ten to fourteen, you go into puberty, you change become this different person. I'd lost all of that. So I learnt very quickly I had to be this protective person So I always been lied about my age to everyone because I never wanted to be that that victim. So when I would st working M Kingings Road, I was seventeen. I told people, I was eighteen I've got jobs in news agents. Oh, you know And then when I started going out, no one ever wanted to hang around with a fifteen year old. of course. So I told everyone I was eighteen, nineteen I mean, it's a recipe for much of what followed, isn't it? This sort of curious combination of self protection and and dishonest. It becomes learn behavior. And you lie to yourself as well. Always. And the thing about is is I always when we do something and and we get away with it that will become a learnt behavior that we will keep for the rest of our lives. You know, if you lie as a child and you you get what you want from it, you're going to lie again You had an idea of what you wanted though, what you were lying for. I mean, not just self protection and safety, but you were drawn to You know, what would later I suppose be called club culture. You were drawn to the places where people seem to be having the most fun or I think I was drawn to the chaos. I was drawn to the drama. I was, you know, from a very young age again, drama was what drove me. So if we had you know an alcoholic aunt that we weren't allowed to talk to, I loved her She threw bottles at buses and like beat people up in the street. I was drawn to it. Why I just think that it was so The energy, I was drawn to that chaos, I've always been drawn to some form of chaos What were you like at school before you got chucked out? It was a nightmare. Were you? Yeah, I hung out with the hard I went to school. I got bullied for having permed hair. The first week that I went there and they were like, you know And I learned really quickly to find the hardest girls in the school. notot the hardest boys hardestir, The hardest girls. And I become there was like four of us I I become the fourth girl There was Mas Sierra shar and I hung around these girls. No one messed with them. No the boys were even scared of them And I just hang out with them So you had no particular interest in any of the lessons or anything. No, you know, it's really severe You know, now it's become the newew pool pork, but my ADHD, which was undiagnosed then didn't have a title and dyslexia I was on, you know, as far as anyone was concerned, I was on I was Unteachable. Right Be I didn't understand. My brain didn't work the same way as every other kid. So in classes I become so disruptive because it was my way of covering up the fact that I couldn't learn to speak English let alone French or German or whatever else. So I spent most of my time outside the headmaster's office. becausecause I was a disruptive kid. It's an interesting age, yours. you're correct age Because you're right on that cusp, aren't you? Whereas now you would be recognized and diagnosed and looked after I don't imagine you got beaten at school quite. If you'd been ten years older, you probably would have got beaten at school for some of the stuff that you' descri. I mean, I I got slapped I got the slipper and I got okay no formal There was management. Many a time my dad came up to school to sort out teachers Right. I'd gone home until I'd been like caned. my dad was like having none of it. to because it was right at the end of the cane. That's what I mean, just on the So I got you bit bit earlier than I thought. so that's frustrating. That's horrible. You can't help what you're doing and yet everyone's telling you that you can. And then they threw me out there and sent me to a special school. R for kids that were unruly Yeah. where I learnt to break into cars and I lear all of the things that I was going to get through life with not. But you know, the thing about it was was they just washed their hands with me at that point Then when I was allowed to go back to school I had instigated this whole big drama with a drama teacher. Literally a drama teacher Yeah. When were you happiest during these years? when did I mean, because I sense you were never peaceful No, I think that Because I never ever spoke about the trauma that I went through for four years, then I think this is when you sexual Yeah, sexually abused an older man. Yeah. That was a transactional thing. I worked for him. like I was, you know, hes shown films in youth clubs. I mean, come on. It's like and I worked for him. So there was a transactional thing. So I had to shame bestowed on me because you know, when people do these things, they're very clever at what they do and it's not an off by chance thing that that happens You know They're called predators for a reason So for me I'd already had it ingrained me that I was worthless and I was untreatable and unteachable and I deserved Everything that I've been given. So you inflict that onto someone who of ten, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, whose brain's not fully functioning It kind of leads you out into a different direction. It kind of just think, okay, well maybe I am this way Do you know what I mean? Of course I do. and it draws you to the chaos it mean Yeah to be in places where I suppose the normal rules don't apply because according to the normal rules, you've failed. Yeah. I want to find my people Yeah as such. you know what I mean? I kind of like clubbing and All of that world and the King's Road, I was drawn to the King's Road because it was it was post punk. And it was your grandma's manor as well. Yeah toally up the world's end No, she's Chelsea Green. Oh is she? Shes very nice. Yeah, she was Chelsea Green and you know, I was always drawn to drawn to Kings's Road because just like the The freedom of it. Well, it was all happening there. Yeah, it really was. was the first I mean, what did you do when you got there? What was Did you find your people? I found my people really quickly. Who were they So I literally we used to hang out in a place called the Great Gear Mark here And those people that were in there was like Rusty Yaggan and there was all different people like Melissa Kaplin who was anotherother fashion designer at the time and Vivian and because I went to school with Vivian W her son, Joe. Right Yeah, Joe Curry. And so I you know, there was al that foot in the door So I worked in the news agents festival, which was of opposite John Lewis. So everyone would come in there in the morning and in the evenings. And I learned very quickly if I gave someone free cigarettes, they became my friend So I gave away so much stuff. You know what I mean? Like literally because I was networking from the news agents. Could you have put into words then what you wanted? I mean beyond wanting to feel safe somewhere or feel at home somewhere? What did you want? I think that I just want you to be liked. Right. I think that I made people laugh because I wanted them to like me I feel that I came from such a place of I didn't like myself, so therefore I, you know, I I w I I Never was comfortable with what happened to me and then suddenly I become a victim within it But I also become you know, this like jowel and juror of my own life as well, J I mean, I put myself into jail of such And I kind of just always was the most loudest person in that room because I didn't want you to know what went on for me. And how would that loudness manifest itself in kind of the bit, the humor. Gossip. Yeah. Oh, totally. All of those things, you know that a fourteen year old going on thirty two year old goes through. I mean, literally I At that point in time we didn't have social media. we didn't have a phone. we didn't have the network the internet or such. We had nothing. The internet at that point was King's Road. That was social media. You went up and down the King's Road, you got photographed, you got seen, you met It was a hive for creativity. Where did the confidence come from then, Tony? Be on one level, you're running away from what has happened to you. On another level, you're kind of running away from who you are. and yet on this third level, you are A the life and soul of the party and B absolutely happy to march up to anybody and start chatting. I think that wasn't I don't I've never looked at it as a confidence. I've looked it as an insecurity in the sense of okay, I'm going to be rude to this person and I'm going to make them like me I'm gonna make them notice me I want it to be noticed. I want you to B I didn't want to be that fat little kid anymore. Do you know what I mean? I want her to be like, okay There no there's no reason for me to have this cast flow around myself. I'm getting quite a drag energy from Oh yeah, when he to drag. did drag for like but that's what you're describing, isn't it that a lovable toxicity Of course You know The comedian, the performer I'm over here. Why are you looking over there And it was very much like that. That's how I got to know most of the people that I knew because they're all came in looking into the great gear market And I knew who I needed to befriend. Did you have a sense of being at the center of the universe then, in that period in that part of London I think that knew I knew where I was, but I didn't think it was the cent of the universe. I think that I was still striving to find that. I still think that I was on the outside of that Because I didn't have pink hair or I wasn't a punk or I wasn't a new romantic I was a little kid. But you know, at the same time I was pretending to be something I wasn't. Were you still big No, I started losing the weight by that point. But what I did do I found another learnt behavior, which was take the money out of the till and go and buy designer clothes with it. Right. And that's what I would do on a daily basis. So I was always He to toan Katherine Hamet You name it. There was a shop on the Kings Road, which was right by where we worked called Jones. and Jones was like One of those one of the first designer outlet shops. in the UK. They sold all of the up and coming designers And literally I would go in there after work every day and Id think I'll get this today, that today. and I used to dress head to toe westward. I used to go down to worldld's End and Get all of that you were stealing them. I was stealing the money, yeah. but the way I looked at it at the time was like stealing from the rich to dress the poor. Do you know what I mean? It literally was like that. And it was like another learnt behavior. And then everyone I would bring in to work at there I would say, right, you can Just do a fake stock check and like stock type and yn. When did you start clubbing Oh I started clubbing really quickly. So about I first went to my first nightclub when I was fourteen, which was the embassy in and I was you know, I was dating want say dating. I met the manager at a bus stop in Lavender Hill and he lived by Lavender Hill. And of course, me being me manipulated the situation. then he said one week go I work at a club, why don't you come? So off I went to the club I know he thought he was seventeen, eighteen. Oh he thought I was eighteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah literally. No one ever knew I was fourteen. So when I talk about impulse text, that doesn't make they're not who. what we would label today as That title. They're not that person. I was the one that was like sixteen, seventeen, eighteen in their eyes. But of course you still had to be twenty one at that point. but that was the world that we lived in. And you looked muchuch older than me. Oh my go, yeah, I was six foot one. Right. Do what I mean? I literally was I had my dad's hands. Do what I mean? literally Yeah, because I grew I was no longer a kid That had been taken from me at ten. Yeah. I was I was not a kid I was a survivor. I was someone that was re protecting themselves and you learn really quickly how to protect yourself What are you trying to prove at this point in your life to others or to yourself that you're not hurt. I'm not vulnerable. Yeah. I don't have that. You're not going you're not going to get away with it again. No one's ever going to get away with it again No one's ever going to abuse or use me ever again. So I'm in charge. Yeah. and also, you know, it's really hard not to be calm that go down that route of like Okay When we go into victim mode and we transition from victim mode, thinkin, okay, you know what? no one's going to do that again. It's really hard not to become that hard faced Yeah. And I think that I was really blessed with the fact that I found humor. I found humor within everything that happened to me. Was it a moment when you first walked into the embassy Club? Was there a sense of I never wanted you to leave and I still haven't He's one of those things that Why The wasos it that was the lightights, the energy, people the enjoyment People are having fun I just sat there in awe all night And then the next time I went to heaven And I stood outside for like five hours in the freezing cold. I like in a T shirt And that's, you know, and we' scared to go in And like people were like, Oh what are you doing? I was like, I'm waiting for my friend. But I was so scared to go over that threshole Why? Because I was just I just f I don't know. but looking back at it I forot it was I was scared because I just thought, okay, I'm not going to come back from this in a sense of this might become my world because you know, when you're of that age And you're going into somewhere like that fake, you know, fake ideDas fake everything I was fakeful stop W you Yeah, because I was' I didn't know who I was anymore In that sense, all I knew that I was I didn't fit in at school. I didn't fit in on the estate I didn't say in. to any of those things. So what I was trying to do was like, look do that whole Okay, look at me, I've bleached my hair, I'm wearing fieruchci. I'm doing all this, doing that. Yeah, we love it. But you know, it really was a case I find going out and looking for my people. And I mean you've got the gay scene and you've got the club culture. And this was the period in history where they kind of merged into one. As Irin Welsh says Yeah the gazays farted the Straight stood up and this stood up and listened and it's so true and it was because we get we had We don't have queer culture like we do today. What we had then was you e a straight clubs or you had gay cubs. Gay cubs were men only That's what they were And then There was this new influx of Clubbing at that was about everyone. No one cared whether you were straight or gay. No one cared what sexuality you were because It was about the music. So it all be suddenly this whole new world had opened up What When is this? aboutbout eighty two or Yeahy It kind of just went So before ecstasy. Oh totally before the music was already breaking Music some of the old barriers. We literally were, you know, Ecstasy came in. That was another game changer because you know, on the back of like the the poll tax riots and factorism and Clause twenty eight and all of that stuff that we were all going through. as a nation in so many respects U House music came in along and changed everything. we jumped ahead a little bit because when you went to Um, when I mean you would It was with Rusty Eagness Oh IVa yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was prehouse. That was prehouse. So it was just that waso trash.o trash your disco. Okay. that was really early on in like like eighty three, eighty four, right? So you're about sixteen when when you're working at playground. Yes, I was sixteen. So I've got this image there. So fourteen to sixteen, you're just running around like King' Road. Yeah, everywhere, going everywhere you can, meeting everybody, giving away cigarettes buuying all your care from The most annoying person on the planet. Well, people liked you though. Yeah, because they found me funny. Yeah. I would say what people were scared what they were thinking. I'd be like, Oh, look at you, you know and stuff. People wanted you around because things would never be dull if you were there. Yeah, of course. you could You still didn't like yourself. No, because I was creating a monster as such in the sense of you know, a persona of like, okay I find the bitchiest, they're gonna love me. If I'm the loudest, they're gonna love me. Do you know what I mean? I do. When did you first take drugs? sixteen. Oh so a bit later then Around the time that you first got into playground. I got yeah. so it literally was the playground. Right. So, you know, I'd had a I'd I'd had a line of something that someone else gave me, which is quite well documented. but he didn't give me it. his friends did. And I thought I'm never doing that again It was vow. I did a learn a. I didn't like it. I didn't like the way it made me feel Oh I thought I'd never telling that again. Then I had a friend who is no longer with us called Paul, and me, Paul and Richard were part of a click little gang that we made. And from the King's Rad, we all worked in the King's Road end I was I walked into my job with Rusty at the playground because I went to Rusty and said they Steve Strange and Rusty were opening this new big club at the Lyceum And they were The PR woman called Carol Hayes is an amazing woman that kind of look PR so much back then She was like, o, Rusty and Steve are doing this blah blah. so I already had the insider information and I said to Rusty, o Just for few information I'm opening a new club on Saturday night. and you know I was a sixteen year old kid that worked in the great gear market behind him on the store. And he was like, well, what do you mean? I went Yeah, I'm opening a new club on Saturday nights. And he was like, so are we? And I was like, Oh are you? Totally new the worst. So he said, whyy dot you come and work for us on the door? I said off I triotted to do the door. Was that nice? Did you enjoy that? I loved it. I everyone in for nothing. I had my job was to like do. I used to sign the back of invites and give them to people's beyond the door. I just let them in. everyone. So I used to let one hundred and fifty people in every week for nothing and whichich I signed a back fat Tony. So it was all about Tony. Got it. And then Every week I used to say to Rusty he'd be like, How was it tonight and I'd be looking He's like, what do you mean? I'd be like people are leaving saying they hate the music.ike so many people. And this poor DJ who was called Ian Du and he was like at the time He was like DCM champion, DMC champion. just, you know, it was like pioneering scratching and everything had come into play with music was changing, the way we clubed was changing and I'd say everyone hates him. They're all leaving. it was him and Con in Favver. and Connie Favor was like one of the first house teJs So Rusty was like So every week I would go on about it And then he was like, Well, you know, you stag it off every week. whyy don't you can't do any better? And I was like, Oh, I can.. So the following week, I turned up with four twelve inch singles in a carrier bag And I've got all my friends to come This is my first gig And I played both sides of each dring probably three times each I don't No mixing to Nle to record U And we've been a week or so I'm manipulated I'd manipulated a job there. I'd manipulated Well at my own night with have a friend of mine called Stepvenen Lenard at the Wag Club. Right So I started doing that on Waldor Street, which was the center of the universe at that point in time. It was the place that you had to go And you know, so at seventeen, eighteen, I was running but that's the bit I don't get that bit the bit from the full records in the carrier bag to being this fixture of Cubland when by your own admission, you didn't even mix. No what did you bring partarty. Good choice in music. Was that it? Ohways. And where did that come from? Where we I grew that other people weren't. I grew up I grew up listening to music. I great game Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when my brother He lived his bedroom was the other side of like in a house and he had a sound system that he built. R. And he was into Lovers' roock. My little younger brother was singing, My dad My dad had the best stereo in the world equipment like Morance this and that Always, always, always had the top of the range thing it. He his stack stereo was You know, the best that you could get. We were the first person ever on our state to have a satellite dish that was the size of Wembley Stadium that tracked satellites. and you could hear it going It was so annoying. But we had to have it. Do you what I mean?? So my dad's Morantance, I used to used to always go on it ye the Aps Mors and I'd be like Okay, but we weren't allowed to touch it, but every every Sunday morning. He would wake up and he'd play his music And what was his music? So his music was very eclectic, so it started off with like Je Pittney Roy, Orbison, Jim Reeves. Then it would go into like new electro. Really? Yeah. And then as the eighties came into play, it would be things like humuman League Dare album and all of these really amazing tracks and music And I think that as his stereo and his speakers Bigger His music tasted and electric music got bigger as well. He become very eclectic. It's on a Sunday. Because I lived at heste, I didn't need live anywhere else. It was like by the King's Road Growing up in that estate, he' like literally We'd wake up and we'd have music constantly in the house. So when they went out, my brothers would play their speakers out on the roof And the whole street would have to listen to it. So you weren't bullshitting then when when you told Rusty Egan that you could do a job. Oh, yeah, yeah. you know, I always I always had That feeling of music I could read. you know I've never listened to music, I've always felt music. And I think that the only time that I listen to music when it become a necessity and it way is and means to get money to do in the height of addiction Right, yeah, but there's still a little bit of a mystery as to how you became so wanted so quickly. I think that Be when mean, you're flying to New York Yeah months later, is it? I think do you find that when you've got the biggest pop stars in the world as your best mates at that point in time becomes a really good bargaining tool. So this is people like boy George. Yeah, you know, George was part of your crew. eighty eighty three, eighty four, eighty five, eight six, eight seven, they were getting the big they were becoming the biggest people on the planet. Yeah. And of course, you know, very quickly when you suddenly become that DJ and they all come to the party constantly And there was like private members clubs like Freds and all of these really amazing places opening up and you become You make yourself the face of it by being out every night of the week and you you got remember, right? London wasn't like it is today. Club and culture was five streets Right And if you went beyond those five streets, you weren't a part of the In crowd. So we had Wardall Street, we had Greeg Street. and then it started to open up. Covent Garden came into play. We always had Covent Garden. And then it kind of like went the west End suddenly wasn't the West End anymore Cafe de Paris was there. Cafe de Paris was there. I used to do Wednesday nights at Cafe de Paris. And it was the center of the unise Tchnically how good were you U I shit L literally literally I was shit because you know it wasn't about How I played it is when I played it. I used to People be like, Ohh my Godd, Tonys playing this, Tony's playing that. Because I play music that no one else had heard in those in the club at that point. Caveit Paris Yeah onn a Wednesday night Albert from Paris used to play like Chi music and and Latin music. And then I would go on at one o'clock at one AM and play one till three And I would play early house electrodes. And where were you hearing that I was hittding at a great gear market. Got it. o. was I was I was in the center of you know, I was working behind the record store where everyone got their records from. So I literally would hear all of that stuff constantly. Also, at that point in time, I was going out clubbing every by the week. So I knew exactly what And finding out what you were listening to Exactly that about talking to the deal I ask well what's this? So we didn't have Shazam then. No of course. So and then you're buying records. Yeah, tootally. And also, you know, I very quickly became Because of who and what I hang around with, people gave me their record People wanted me to play their tracks. So lo B happened whole local Bs used to be an A and R man. Yeah. And he used to bring me the tracks every Friday and Saturday in brown envelopes. and he used to give me like ten tracks, and I'd be like, thanks. And off course I'd be like, Oh God he's really annoying. me And there were certain times where I just couldn't be bothered to carry them and I'd throw them in the bin. And it was like you know that was how fitious a my little brata was you knew a banger when you heard of. Oh, one hundred percent Did you put it into words or could you just feel it in your bes? Well, as soon as I would play them in the club and I'd be like,, this is incredible. Look at that. You know, I'm very gifted in the fact that I had A nightclub to play tracks here. A night so yeah, I thought you'd just done something there, but you didn't So that was the first nice thing you'd said about yourself was I was very gifted, but actually you're just describing luck of being in the nightclub Not acknowledging that you had something a bit special there. No it was just that I acknowledged that I was had something special at all for a long time because I was always I have ins always suffered with imposter syndrome because I was always someone's friend I was like people, you know, I'd fly around the world and I'd still be someone's friend And when you got people write something they start writing about you magazines and papers and it's like, F of. Okay DJ is, you know, and it was like that for a while, you know, I suddenly started getting in like notot of press. suddenly started being like doing stuff. and it was always like, Oh, do you think you and George can do this? or do you think you and Kate or all of that stuff that came into play. That was later with Kate Moss. Oh yeah, Kate came Kate came a lot later Naomi and Kate are both met at the Wag Club originally. you know, So we're now we're now I mean, before we get there, we're sort of in the mid to late eighties. Yeah. and you're now being flown regularly to New York. Yeah a residen the palladium Yeah A Bitha appears on your itinerary for the first time. Tk Bitha about five times by that point. But never as a DJ in that. Oh, that's lie actually. What one about. I went to I before with Rusty to DJ. Yes and we did a party called from London No sleep till London Hence why At that point in time, I was hanging out. It was o I years at cou and I was hanging out with like the beasty boys no sleep till Brooklyn And I'd met them and so we did this pike called No Sleep Till London And literally at coup and I didn't even play that night I've disappeared, I've met some Spanish boy and off I went on the back of a moped. cameame back four days later And then stayed, stayed in I Bifa For six months with Steve Strange just stayed to people. No money, nothing, just stayed part Yesvery night of the week. So with the drug intake by now was moving up? It was, yes, but it wasn't to the extent, it was never a problem. I got I think alcohol was the biggest problem at this point in time. because I couldn't handle my drink So I get drunk really easily. And then of course I become that funny drunk. It was never The problematic drunk because I was never going to be that person because I'd seen in my dad and all my family and I thought, that is not who I'm going to be Yeah I mean it was kind of proving a point that I could have fun on alcohol But you were still becoming dependent th. Oh, one hundred percent. you couldn't party without a drink? No, of course not And and, you know I was on holiday. It was six months. Yeah, one of those ones. six months. Living in someone's house me and Steve, I remember we had a car and neither of us could drive. So I would get off with boys that could drive and so did Steve and we'd had them for three days until they had had enough of us And they would go the amount of times I'd been left in the back of a car, because Steve had an argument and the guys would go out and just walk up and leave us sitting in a car that neither of us could drive. And what were the kind of down moments like during that period? So when you know when you sobered up and stuff, were you happy in a sense or were you just waiting to start again? Well, you know, it kind of really was like Cub Cubing culture back then was so different to clubing culture now. It wasn't about the weekend. R. Back then it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday we had something to do every night of the week. Yeah. and that was really was Yeah, again pre free internet. It was literally everything was like So you went out and you found this platform, you created these platforms. Suddenly magazines like ID and all of these magazines were coming to play. So you You saw what everyone was doing via the face. You saw what everyone was doing via ID and other magazines And suuddenly, you know The interest in fashion. and everything else that went with it Music and fashion then suddenly combined yet again in a big way And the house music arrived at the same time as well. and you couldn't on the back of electroe. You couldn't have been better placed then. No, at that point in time, I really was so blessed because I'd already I met Larry Levan. I'd already met all of these amazing DJs in New York . by hanging around We've we've ads from the from U from the Beastie Bys and those guys Adam and just been hanging out with them and just being that person and being flying over to New York because everyone wanted to be in London, everyone wanted to everyone I be in New York It was very much that nylon situation, but everyone in New York wanted to live in London And it was just like So you're bridging that gap as well. Yeah. And then you bring the New York sound to So Jungle would be of the first Jungle was C in favour. Literally, C in favour. And that was one of the first house nights in London. It was on a Monday. Yeah on a Monday night. And it was it was that Busby's which is gone now Tical Road underneath the Astoria And on every Monday night it was the first house club in that respect, especially on the gay scene. China just took London by storm Aen along comees the limelight And that kind of just thing. And then with the Wag, we started incorporating house music. So then I would bring in I was running the Wag on a Saturday night for twelve years. I was bringing in like Tim Simman from Bond the Base, Mark Mark Moore from Eessxpress, Nanaheri and Wild Bunch and all of those guys that were like originally doing hip hop, strokke, soul music. suudddenly house music started seeping in we moved into The era of Soouful House And ecstasy. Ecstasy yeah. That kind of like yeah, that kind of come a little tin about Tiny bit later. Yeah, a little bit late First came over eighty eight, eighty nine. First came over in a French shoulder pads. Right. Yeah, MDMA capsules. And he used to bring that over from New York and suddenly there wass this really big Wave of it But it was never being produced here. We used to always rely on MDMA coming in. Were you financially well off or were you still chaotic? You were I was financially well off beccoming minted by now. Y you're getting payid appearance fees. you're getting I was on a retainer share of the gateub Yeah. Yeah. o I was on like three and a half grand a alan a week on Back in like nineteen eighty in nineteen ninety nine, eighty nine. I weren't at this point you weren't spunking it all on drugs? No I came a bit later. That came a little bit later, yeah. But by this point I was into designer clothes. so I was spunking an awful lot of my wages on looking good and feeling good. Are there moments here? Be I mean, the sense of disbelief that you are living the life that you're living. I mean I mean, and then there's the stories about you telling Madonna to fuck off, which again probably came a little bit later. came that came further down the career. Yeah, but the career highlight. But But I mean you're conscious of Are you pinching yourself at times or not? Yeah, there was all these moments of like, okay, why am I doing this? Why suddenly you know And it was always I always believed there's a part of me that always believed that it's because of the people I knew wasasn't about what I could do, it's about who I could bring I think that in itself So that hasn't changed much to a lot of DJs. It's always been about bringing the crowd People wanted those A listters in their clubs. And you could bring the A listters, but you could also bring the music. Yeah. And when did I mean, when do you think you started acknowledging that you're actually very good at this and it's not about who you know. Oh, when I started playing at trade. Okay. when I started playing at tmills. tmills. And that really was the game changer because suddenly I got this like gig The Cub, you know, I mean, don't get wrong, the limelight was the club I was the musical director at the lim night I was running the Wack club was the club. So I'd always always shifted from club to club and suddenly there was this new after hours place that U you know, 'a they we shot at three AM And the Wack Club is the first club in the UK to get a six AM license and So that changed everything. So suddenly, we were like up all night and then we wanted to carry on And of course by then The drug intake had changed and gone become more M Yeahah, more prominent in my life. Okay.ly because of the hours, I suppose. O course that was a good enough excuse. Yeah. I would open after hours clubs for that excuse. And you've got also It just in your big It was like literally I lost u Partner? Tom. Yeah, Tom Hammond And you know, it wasn't only about Tommy, it was like At that point in time All of all of ourcial our social network and our peers were all dying. Yeah. And no one ever talked about it. They went off and died No one ever Like, you know, it was always a whispering of so and so's not well And we kindt of just shrugged our shoulders and suddenly became a little bit like COVID in the sense of You'd think that you had it you had a cold. Yeah, of course. Or you suddenly you you've been so run down that you you you you you just fll ill And then going off to El's Ctw with Trot to the anonymous sameame day testing centers that Because they were in El Sct because El'ct at that point in time was the gay mecca. All the gay clubs were there. learn wasn't it on the And basically And the shops as well. Yeah, all the shops, everything. It was like, you know all the gay hotels and everything was there And so you go there and you walk into these like little boutique shops that at the back of a shop and'd be prick tested on your farm And it was never a pleasant thing. and then you'd go back, they said same day you'd have to go back two days later sometimes. and they said, no, you're okay. And off'll just try again So I mentioned that just to get the context in which everything started falling apart for you because you from ninety five to two thousand five ninety four you're on top of the world. Yeah. Literally I was living in Old Compton Street I was at the top of my game U I got to a point where My circle of friends had widened even more and I was living the dream. I was literally living the dream. And then of course what happens is in eighty five in nineteen ninety five I got my record deal moved into Queen Square bought the house Uh And of course, very quickly You let someone like me loose with their own house and so much money every day coming in There was no one ever there to say to me to stop So your appetites became prodigious. Yeah, totally. And I become I believe my own hype I become that hype manan and wing manan all at once And I mean that you've written in extraordinary detail about this period. I suppose most infamously there is the time where you You sort of removed your own teeth. Yeah, it wasn't Atim. it was over a course of a year I kind of just, but You know, I used to always I still do. I bite my nails and I always always had my hands in my mouth. And you know, what happens is as new drugs come into play and You know, you're up all night and you're dehydrated and your gums become dehydrated. you sit and dig at them And what happened was where I'd been drinking certain like Coca Cola and all like, my teeth were rotting from the inside that and I used to dig at them. Then got into taking drugs in a different way, smoking and I got this thing called methMouth, which came a little bit later where I started because my friend from New York used to bring a different drug to London and I got very quickly addicted to that. That was The crowning glory of That was like okay, this is the nail in the coffin that I really don't need because at that point in time I got so addicted and I'd lost all sense of reality But the money was still coming in Why did you choose to write about this in such excruciating detail? Because it's I didn't want to glamorize my life It needed to be said and I think that That whole idea of that when I we sat and rerote, I don't take requests, which took just over two years to write because It was never true at first it was the book that we set out to write wasn't the book that came out. because I kept saying, no, that's not true enough. that That's, you know, because When you sit down to do something and you think that You' to write a truthful documentation of of the times. You want everyone to be on that ride with you and you want everyone to think that was oh yeah, he did this. you know, I've said over the years in comments like Oh, Freddie Mercury gave me my first line of cocaine or Id spent over a million pounds dr. All of those Cliche catchlines were parts of conversations But suddenly they become your title and suddenly that it was everywhere. all the suen the man had spent over it and it was like it looked like I was boasting. And it was never a boast. There was no boasting in any of it. But what it does become is a war story And war stories for a while there set me free and then they suddenly don't work anymore Because they're camouflaged. one hundred percent. And the authentic you is still hiding somewhere underneath it the real yeah, the authentic me didn't know where I was. I was in some I very like ten percent of me wanted to be real and so writing that book and the process of writing that book Because my truth is how I see it. It's not necessarily the truth. And as you write that process and you go through that process and you interview other people that were there at the time, they will tell you The same story, but Yes, of course. They were hero in. you were Yeah. and it was a remarkable learning experience and suddenly as that's One thing about me, I have a very good memory. I can repeat conversations that I had twenty years ago, thirty years ago There was a big blackout gap. Yes that's come back a lot And I think that Writing that book and getting honest in that book was the game changer Well, the game changer was recovery, which came before the book. Yeah. and it wouldn't have been the book with without the recovery. What was the I mean the cliche is that you have to have reached absolute rock bottom before you can start climbing up again. I mean, I was at rock bottom for a good ten years Yeah and it bec it'd become a way of life and you know, I was that person that you walked by on the street. I was that person lying in a door. some the photographs are harrowing Yeah, they are And I think it's really important to keep showing that stuff. Because that person isn't me person was Uhhuh a version of me that I will never go back to. And I can sit here and I will say hand on heart, I will never go back to that It's not a lot of addicts will say, Ohh you're only one step away from like using or its you're never always looking over your shoulder I know hand on heart that I'm coming up to twenty years over and being clean. and for me That is never going to be an option because my life is so incredible because of the things I don't do and not the things I do. I would never change that Because all of that stuff that I went through was misery and pain and there was there there was happiness at times, forced happiness. Today I have real happiness in the sense of it's not it's not forced rhubarb You can't hear it growing. You can see it growing, you know, for me, it's like So that outweighs any form of romantism around addiction Tell me about the first time you played sober. I was a nightmare. G. So I literally did this when I went to rehab, I wrote of course, Tony Bean, Tony had to write rehab diaries and get them published in a game magazine called QX at the time ve got the cover I'm back I'm back everyone and you know, literally M I did it so that I knew I couldn't go back. Right And okay, everyone's going to know I'm so bar and And also it was a badge of honour for all the wrong reasons. So going back into that whole I'm gonna do a gig, my first gig. I built it up so big There was no way on earth I was ever going to play because everyone was there. I had this anticipation of and I thought, I can't do this, I can't do this. I can't be in this environment And I'd set myself up to fail. And I think the reason I set myself up to fail at that point in time was because Yeahet again, I allows the ego which comes from fear to override everything. And I just thought, okay, I'll just stand here and smile and then leave You know what I mean? It was like You know, it took me a good year and a half to two years to actually even function properly in that environment. Why becausecause The damage it had done to my nervous system and everything else, even to this day when I stand in a DJ box and I'm tired or I'm not like normal people. My neuropaths in my brain are wired. so when I start DJing, I g My jawel swing Beuse that's it's that association S even today L like a muscle memory. one hundred percent that. And I have to learn to counteract that by using the tip of my tongue. I don't always do that sometometimes people will go, Oh my Godd, he's off his nut. And it went on for a long time. you know No. No Yeahah, no, Literally mean it. But you know what? it's kind of like you look like you are. I do look like. 'causeuse that's what your face because when you're actually it. And you know what So be it. For people who don't know, what was the moment May God to give a moment they changed everything. And I say God given, I use that word loosely, but it was it was it was You know, I said this the other day in interview that you know, it's about being in the right moment at the right time I was in the right time at the right moment. you know, that's the way it was. and I'd been out for three days, four days in fact, I broke into my partner's then partner's house, stole his jeans while he went out U and he' you know, a few other things like a credit card and stun. And off I trotted into the night and And I went to I was at the cross DJing I was going to deJ the cross and I was sitting rocking backwards and forwards in the green room And he came in and my friend Edna at the time, this guy come up and went So and so here and I was like I can't deal with this. Beause he'd been barred from that club for like a year and a half of like biting me the in the dance under the DJ box Anna I was like, please don't let him come in here He's sitting there wearing his jeans. J I mean? spending his money. I was please don't name Kaviner you know, and and he comes And I just sat there and I thought, I can't deal with this An that point I think I was at I was obviously at the most vulnerable and lowest point in my life if you could call it a life. becauseuse it was literally I was emaciated. And I'd sat there, I had one tooth left in my head. I'd pulled the rest out as we said, with meth mouth and pliers and bits of stick and whatever else, I'd just sit digging at my gums because I thought I had animals living in my mouth I wasn't sane. No. And he came in and and I just think I've just thought I can't do this tonight. And he put his arm my hand on my shoulder And I looked at him and and always it still does try,akes it makes me cry because it was that moment. And literally I looked at him and he went, what happened to you And I let's say I well it up now. because it was that moment. That was the wrong question That wasn't what he was meant to say. He was meant to say, right?, you know, you gotking trousers back. Yeah. And it wasn't. And it was like I couldn't answer the question. I burst out crying and it always affects me because it still has that it was that moment that changed my life forever And I remember leaving with him and Then on the Monday, this is the Friday. onn the Monday, I went to see my doctor and I said I need help And he went, I've waited four years for you to say this. And I was like Why didn't you say anything? He said Be I had to wait for you to say it. I. And I literally within a week I was getting to drug droping cent are U I knew I knew who to call and who to speak to because for years, all my friends had gone off and got clean and I would tell people they were dead. People go, Oh, he seems so psychic and he's dead. If they weren't dead, they were in recovery So for me they were to you. Yeah, they were no use to me. They had nothing in their pocket that I wanted to go me So it was like really was that so I knew who to call. I knew Who should like say thisen? I'm doing this now And my friend Bruce at the time was like, You know, he tried so many ways to get me to meetings and he just started himself and I remember him saying to me. Oh, youve got to come to this meeting. There's so many good looking guys there and you get to hold their hands. And I was like, Oh I'm up for that. off I troted and I've never found that meeting. I' never found those good looking men. whole. No they were a myth to this day. But you know, yeah, it was the game changer and off I went to rehab and I went to rehab six months, five and a half months in Bornemouth And I always joke and I always say like, support ofve ever gone back to Borma that keeps me clean. And I went there and then I came forward to London You know And that is why the new book has the subtitle a user's Guide to Overcoming insanity because that is where you were. Yeah. And I think, you know, for like the fifteen years of my recovery I put down drin and drugs and I didn't do the work and I What does that mean So basically, you know, when we We we're addicted to any substance or anything whether it be drama, wh whether it be shopping or food or What dopamine here Yeah, totally. that you're addicted. Yeah. And you know, the thing about it is is whatever we use, we use in an addictive way. So if I have sushi on a Monday and it's fucking great, I'll have a Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday, Friday, until I've got a rash from raw fish. And then I think, o, what's that about? Do you know what I mean? And then I realize I've had it every day It it's It's the way it works for me and what happened was from So I got to I released I don't take requests like fifteen years into recovery And I got honest. I never got being honest to that point So I would do step work, I would work the program I would be I be I made myself very quickly become the face of recovery in the sense of my inner circle of friends. So anyone's kids that needed help or anyone come to go to see Tony. I opened a rehab in Thailand. with my friend. We did I did You know, so many things on that level. Because it become my platform. I become the voice of it and What I'd done at that point was I never ever understood the word animity because I why I used to think I've worked really hard on myself. I want the world to know Yeah U And what I'd been doing was just giving away every bit of my soul again and not saving anything for myself and I found myself very quickly several times in that with early recovery bankrupts again, physically, mentally and emotionally as you're still craving approval Yeah. one hundred percent, I become the comedia. I become the stand up People came to my meetings because they knew Here we go again, rightight back to the early days of DJ The celebrities were going to come. I knew everyone knew. So if I took over a meeting like a cookoo that I was, I'd go to that meeting twice and within a month I'd be running it. And people would come. the meeting would go from twenty people to one hundred and fifty. Right. Within weeks. and That was the danger because I was bringing in the wrong people and it became the Tony Sh for the wrong reason. And it became the Tony Show. I suddenly become Jonathan Ross Stroke, Graham Norton Stroke You know, all of the great late great that while writing the book or after it came. Oh no, that changed Just last book I Yeah, whilst writing donon't takeake requests, I step back from it I started trauma therapy. And what I realized in trauma therapy was that got to this point where I just I was stagnant. I was living in stagnant water. I was a fish swimming in stagnant water my You know, my so called recovery as I called it, I was clean. sober. Yeah. What else do I need to do I hadn't done the work on myself. I was suddenly those learnt behaviours of the past that I' hadd learnnt to as coping mechanisms, the lying, the cheating, sex addiction All took over. Everything was rife It was it was I was like And I found myself in the most unloving relationship. So you weren't using, but you were still I was abus living a toxic life. You were abusing life I was abusing life. I literally got my I got into this position again in my life where I was in So many unhappy relationships. The addiction isn't about the substance. No about the addict It's about the addict. Everybody's different and that's why this book is so important. Recover me because it's about me meananing you right It's not about the factat Tony show. It's not about the what it is is I'm using my stories from some of them are from the first book and also the way I treat people is the way I treat myself. And throughout this new book the way I treat people changes the way I treat myself. Be I treat myself with respect, so therefore I treat everyone with respect And it's been look my head's just still an ide. It's a remarkable story because that learnt behavior of the past no longer serves me. The lying to myself. People ask me, you okay and I'm like, Oh yeah, great No, no, I'm struggling a bit time. And you know, the toxic relationships of me getting foot rot in a relationship ' I'm wallowing in self pity I allowed that relationship to become that point so I could act out on my behaviours. So So my sex addiction went through the roof again because my behaviors because I was so unhappy. my weight went through the roof I came out my last relationship before obviously but I mean now the biggest mess in the world and I had to go and get After writing don't take requests I thought o my God Game over, I'm exposed. because I put made it so trful. And you know, it really was Like, okay, I'm gonna do this. You're gonna either hate me or love me Hopefully you all hate me because then I don't have to be loved I don't have to show any more to anyone And u It was a game changer because people didn't hate me. They loved me. So subconsciously, you're almost daring. the world. one hundred percent You got it because I liay awake every night after handing that book in. Wing that book back W crying Seriously waking up crying thinking you' rined your life People are going to know what you are. They're going vote you're going you've gone back to that destruction And I'd seen The honesty is destruction and as destructive R And I and I remember ringing Hannah my my And like my publisher and said I'm really sorry but I need to get a book back. you can't have it back. And I was like I don't want people I said, my life's all right I don't want to ruin it. She was like, Tony, I don't think you understand This book's going to change people's lives. And I was like Yeah, but it's going to change my life, which is more importantly. And it's not going to be great And I remember that that turning point of like when suuddenly it was getting great reviews and I was like, yeah, what do they want? And all of that stuff because I still didn't believe in myself. I still didn't believe that I was worthy of telling that story. So this is the story of how you become someone who does believe in him. Yeah. one hundred percent, I'm married to one person. I'm no longer Heying who I am and That's I do I love who I am. I love what I do. It's healing. one hundred percent. And you know, it's really bizarre because I just did the audioobook and doing the audio I'd forgotten What I put in my own book? I've forgotten bits of it because I kind of just plowed on and it's like, you know, to deal with that stuff and actually look at that stuff and my part in it and then break it down. So what I've done with this one is I've brought my trauma therapist in Tara Day and she does the subchapters. So everything I tell you in the book, which is kind of like there were days in doing audio and I'd go home and I'd to Stabby I've done it again People like, what, I Why have I told the world this stuff? They don't need to know this stuff. I remember seeing in like we are now And the editor was outside the othergass behind the glass and I I must have said the word cock twenty two times in two hours And I was sitting there I was thinking poor boy doesn't want to hear this. And I remember going to him the next day and saying I'm really sorry about the book. It does change. And like feeling that shame. and I thought whyy are you feeling shame about something that you've worked on so hard on And it was because I couldn't see his face. Yeah. I was doing his thinking for him. Yeah, again. And it had gone back to that point of because I felt uncomfortable. So the lear behavior had gone back to that point. And then really quickly he the next morning I went in and I said does the book gets that you and these mates were all joking. they were like, Ohh, he loves the words anyway And and then we went into the booth and I put the cans on and I was sitting there thinking Today' going to be a good day because I you know, with dyslexia, I can only read for a certain amount. T. Yeah. And then he went, okay, if we could go back and start with at rimming And I was like, o my God, Tony you've done it again. It was like one of those moments I'm like, whyy have you done this book? And of course, you know It's very odd with this one because I got the proof copies to send to people I never sent them to anyone becausecause again because of a You know, yet again. becausecause thes stuff in there, the way I talk about myself the way I treat myself in past context is not I am today. I understand Final question Has there been a moment in the last year or two but maybe slightly longer where you have sat there and almost to your own surprise So I'm all right. Yeah There's been lots of them. I had those moments all the time now and I literally just think, you know what It can be the nice I could be eating scampion chips at Dungeon S with my mum I' just thinking life doesn't get better than this I'm in a really like, you know my wedding day. what my mum walkking me down the aisle? Like that's a pinched me moment that I had never dreamt that I could be in that position of loving someone the way I love my husband Be the way he makes me love myself And the way my mom For all of these years, I misread things and did things and the fact that I'm in this position where I am really al right with who I am. I wake up in the mornings, I don't feel old. People ask me when I turned sixty, what's it like to be sixteen? I'm like I couldn't tell you. I'm not sixty, I'm thirty three. know And I really mean it when I say it You know, There's no age gap. There's a thirty year age gap between me and my husband There is no age gap don I don't ever think, o my God. sometometimes when I say things about people he's like, who's that? And I'm like he does the same to me. but it works both ways. He'll mention someone. I'm like, whoo the hell is that? And he'll be like, Oh my Godd babe, do you not know? And I'm like No so that's that's a two way street. Do you know what I mean? It's not like, oh, you silly old fool, you don't know who's so and so becausecause I do but it's, you know, it's u Yeah, I had those moments all the time and You know, I I'm forever working, I'm forever When I say working, I'm not only working in my career, I'm working on myself in the sense that Paring. I can't go backwards in any way shape or form, and You know, how I treat myself It' how I treat other people So if I'm a morning person, I wake up and I'm out with my dog straight away and I am blessed I am so blessed. There is no luck does not come into any part of my life I am so blessed for where I am in life the age that I am the opinionated age that I am from other people because I'm not that age. I don't feel that age. And it's not like some silly old group talking. I do not E think, oh my God, you're six day Do you know what I mean? It's like doesn't come into it. I remember this morning at coffee with one of my friends in the dog club because we had a little dog club And we got to the copy shot. She said to me this morning, haveave you applied for your u finger at, your a bus pass and I'm just like glad. A why would I need a bus pass? I don't go on the bloody bus? But B is like No, I'm in a position where I can afford to pay for things. I don't need to live off the government in that respect So you can keep your bus path You can keep all of those things. I I am The most greatest thing of all is I'm a paying member of society in every respect of the word. You know, I I I look up, make sure that I'm respectful of what I do. And I think for the first time in your life, you think you deserve this happiness. I really do. yeah. I know I do. I don't think Dges of it I know I deserve it because it's been a lifetime of getting it and I'm never going to let it go. You know Literally and we just about we've just been looking at houses. We're about to look, you know, I'm about to leave my beloved Pimicode, but I'm not going to leave it. I'm still going to keep that house. L we're getting a house. We're looking at a house in Margate Um and we're moving to Margate. Three days, four days a week as our marital home And suddenly it's not I anymore Yeah. Be I I live in Pimico, right We don't. And we is so much more important than I J Iiah and it's like so I am happy to Ke keep my little flat in pimy coat. For the time being, until we takes over P Recover Me, a user's Gide to oververcoming insanity by Fat Tony with Tara Day is out now Soy than Thank you. Thanks for having me on This has been a Global Player original production