Writing Novels and Future Projects

This is a Global Player original podcast. He leant back in his chair with his fag on and went, Well I wonder how long it'll be before I'm having an affair with you Your father was public property when he wasn't really yours. No, he was somebody that I think no one could refuse. you know, he was very charming and very handsome and he was I don't like to say this, but I'm going to say it's sexually inconstent. Philip Gofield, you would have been somewhat surprised by some of the stuff that's come We told each other everything. I thought, everything.. I'm not going to cry. No, no I have very mixed emotions Hello and welcome to Full Disclosure, a podcast project conceived entirely to let me spend more time with interesting people than I would ever get on the radio show. Firm Briton is here and we've never met before, which is a little odd. Considering that I used to pop up on panels and things on daytime shows. Yes, Aguing with Gloria Hunifford about whether or not Dogs should be on leads and various other great The headlines of the day. great issues. Headlines are a little bit different this time. ye. Yes this is true. But better late than ever. Yeah. From my pointiew. It's nice to be here, I'm thrilled. Good. Broadcast a presenter, memoir writer, novelist All sorts, a portfolio career. I think Yeah what do you call it? It's just me been bumbling along really. But it begins in Ealing and that is where we will begin in West London. sururprisingly young for a divorced home. I mean it was still quite stigmatised. Yes, it was. I was about five, I think, I think. The family history was sort of blurred for me, but anyway, I think I was about five when my parents did divorce. but my father had left my mother Um before I was even conceived and came home to visit my sister and my mother, and by the time he'd left I was on the way. a swift afternoon cup of tea in a meeting. I mean, but he was somebody that I think no one could refuse. you know, he was very charming and very handsome and he was um Yes I don't like to say this, but I'm going to say it' sexually incontidence, you know, Yeahah But I loved him anyway, but I didn't know anything about him tntil I was about seventeen, really? He was, of course, the actor Tony Briton. So your father was public property when he wasn't really yours. No, not mine at all. So my sister continued to see him and she would be on holiday with him and go to see him and knew that he was married, and knew that we had a half brother But all that was kept from me. and it wasn't until I was fifty five that my father told me Can I tell you what happened? And I went, ye, then he explained it all to me, and I thought I said, Well of course now that makes perfect sense. Now I understand why you weren't there. When I was little I remember saying to my mum We used to call him Dudder. so I'd say, lookook, you know, where is Dudder? And she said, Well, he married another woman before he married me and he had to go back to her so, which I sort of took on board. Then in school, primary school, for some reason they were discussing bigamy, I don't know why. I shot my hand up, smiling. My father's a bigamist. And I think the staff all knew much more than I did. It's just a village school. but Yeah. and now I look back at that think, what a bloody idiot I was. I't I didn't get any of it. Anyway. But it all worked out all right in the end. Indeed it did. So it's your mother really, who is the seminal figure in your childhood. She was mother and father. She sounds like an extraordinary woman. Yes, she was great in an era when Being on your own and raising two children you wouldd have stood out. Yes, and she did So we had to move from A lovely big house we had in Gerard's Cross, which was of course close to Denham Studios, Ealing Studios, Pyinewood, etc. My father actually never lived there. He must have bought it because he'd signed a film deal Like three or four years contract with Lion films back in the fifties And so he could afford this house, but never actually lived there. But my mother had obviously decided, no, I'm going to live here And then presumably after the divorce to move, they had to sell the house and we moved into a tiny little just about three up, two down cottage no, not cottage. just a little brick house semi detached in Charlfon St. Giles And so that became home and I'd left school I left her left my old house to go to school When I came back in the evening, all the furniture had gone. All that was left was a couple of mattresses on the floor, one for my grandmother and me and one for my mother and my sister And I thought this is a bit weird. and then I went off to school and that day came home and we werere in a new house. And that was the end of that. Nothing fitted. I remember the carpets didn't fit, The dining room table wouldn't fit because it was a little house. What sort of child were you? Would you have taken that sort of thing in your striide? W? Yes.. I was very good at everything went upside down. I'd make it go up the right way. in my head. Did you have to? Did you feel that was you have to It would be too little to suggest that I had to, but looking back I can see that I was, you know, like, okay, well, whatever's next, you know, was qu quite good. And for my birthday that year I remember getting a great bigig Teddy and I still have him, of course, grand Big Ted I think that's, you know, an unusual name for him because's very original. Thank you. I've got a bigig Ted. Yeah. Oh good, I like you. And so yeah, Big Ted was around and life was good. Let's talk a bit about Ruth if we can. A beauty queen, and I always have to double check that some of the information that' been immortalized on the internet is actually correct. A beauty quQeen a World War II sergeant and a teacher in no particular order. So after the war or during the war She joined up. She didn't wait for her papers. She joined up at seventeen and joined the ATS, so was a women's Army. and she won her stripes, her sergeant stripes and she was on the anti heavy Aat guns Because her elder brother who would have been twenty two was flying Lancasters. and bombing Germany. And so she felt If any enemy aircraft came over us, she could shoot them down.ly. And yeah, and my uncle, he did He did limp home having been shot doneun and he was on one engine but got the whole crew home And he got his distinguished flying I want to say mal cross notot cross no medal DFM yes distinguifying model metedal. so that was good. And my mum, yeep, she was busy in Bristol and in Scarborough and A whereere our Salisbury Ple shooting down enemy aircraft. Then they finished the war, she and her brother came home. and My grandmother She was running a boarding house just outside Western Supermare. And she read in the paper, Oh look, there's a Miss. Rose of England contest, and I think you won a fiver or something. And She said to my mum, Right, right, you can go and get yourself dressed up. Come on, come go and do that.. So my mother got dressed out and she came second So the mis Rs of England was at the celebration dinner sitting in the Pide of place. Nxt to her was a handsome young actor who'd been part of the judging panel. I see a young man called Tony Gritt. And my mother was on the other side and he was busy chatting up the quQueen, obviously. And then because my mother didn't drink, there was one glass of champagne each He had his and he looked at my mother and said, are you drinking that? And she went, No. So he sweaked that, but somehow or another. As the world went on, they got together Were you aware of sadness when you were young? I mean, because your mom was put in an invidious position by circumstances. Did that ever land at home There were odd occasions, yes, when Soee my grandmother had left her husband. he was in Kang And when Singapore fell, he was taken to terrible jail that still exists and it's gone out of my mind for a it because I've been talking too much. It's like Chichi Shang.. Shangy. Yeahah. so he was there for the onset of the war, beyond I mean, really, by rights, you should have been a novelist before you did anything else with all of these No Nobody believes in my story. And I tell you everything, think Oh ye. Yeah. So anyway, he was there Nanna was on her own running this boarding house And she was absolutely strong. my grandmother. She was so tough. She passed that to my mother. But I remember as a child, occasionally my father would arrive within you know, boot full of presents or something nice. And only maybe I can remember maybe two or three times, I don't know And when he went, I felt the house in some kind of quiet hysteria My sister would be upset, my mother would be upset. they'd be A row, I'd get upset. And it was always that, that always happened every time he left. U So I think that's what I remember. Disturbance in the Yeah, absolutely. The vibrations were not good. No wasas there ever I mean, was she still smmithen? I mean, in a way, I think they did still both love each other because he He did love her, he liked her, enormously He trusted her, but he also liked and trusted and adored other people too very gener It's a very generous analysis, isn't it? But it's probably true... And people fell for him left R center. When did you become aware of fame, Fern in his case or because just sort of it's a strange thing for a child to live in any. Yeah. Well, I remember at primary school in Charlord St. Giles, so where I'd said, Oh, my father's bigamiss. I remember there Oh God Sorry. justust reminding me of something that we once ran out of laundry. at home and so my dad went to work, having borrowed a pair of my mum's pants and I announced at school that my dad wore my mum's knickers Which is partularly less well, considerably less embarrassing. Yeah. But is Jius. a child says what they see theyar There's nothing wrong with this. I should tell you this Yeah, absolutely. why wouldn't they? There was a school play And I we were doing Ragtag and Bobtail and I was Bobtail. And all I had to do was sing a little song with Rag and tag and pretend oh no, I was painting acorns because I was sticking the acorns into the thing into the conqueror. I don't know what it was, but singing this little song about that. And I was really scared because he was coming And no one believed me that I had a father, let alone a father was an actor. Well, where is he then? you know, all that In my nervousness brush fell out of my hand, the acorn and the conquer all fell around and I looked at the teacher who was on the floor trying to direct us and she just went So I'm busy miming, painting these things, thinking, I think I've made a mess. And all at the same time looking around, where is he then? Where is he? But still people didn't believe that he was an actor and I was making him up. Were you were you A good student at school, did you kind of excel what? No, I wouldn't say that. I'm not an academic person as such but I'm quite good at working out relationships and working patches and all that sort of stuff. I'm I wasn't particularly clever, but I did enough to get through school and came through I know Dputy headirl I, I must have done something wr right? Yeah, only just because I was quite pleasant and nice. What did you enjoy most in your school thereough? What were kind of? I loved history I really loved history, English. U never was allowed to be in the school plays, I think they thought I might be a pain in the ar, so I was never even invited. but I would run So you peaked with Flops, sorry, Bob T. Yeah Yeahah, Bob T Flopsy Anyway. But I was allowed when we got to the sixth form we would always write a six form entertainment for the end of every term And I was very good at writing sketches and performing in them and making people laugh. And so that was always good. And I was able to sing at school. I'm sure I was quite a good singer, but now I'm told I'm rubbish server. There you go. And none of this, because you say it even now in quite a sort not a self deprecating way, but some people would have thought I was very good at sketches and I made everybody laugh And that's why that's why I went on to be I don't know, you know. I went to drum school to be a stage manager. I know you did. so you never would have felt at this stage. You didn't have the show off Ge is what I'm saying, I suppose. No, I've never had that. That's interesting. Yes. I don't believe in that And I never wanted to be famous. That's not the point. I found myself in a job When I was working in the theatre, which I absolutely loved for any young person who's interested in any of that, go and train to be a stage manager because it's just so much fun. And on a Saturday night, we were always touring. So on Saturday night once you've done the second show, audien has gone home, actors have all gone home, stage management taking down the entire set and all the electrics and the sound P pututting it on a great big lorry and then to save the train fare youd go with a lorry driver in the lorry, which was always exciting and get taken next morning, you'd arrive at the next theatre and just do it all over again. There's a lot of ego in the profession that you ended up in and ye you don't seem to have a great deal yourself R I do, but I know what you mean I don't think I'm great No. I think I'm okay. I get embarrassed people blow smoke on myouse, I can't bear it. I just can't bear it. I think no, they're lying. This is rubbish And I was working with an American recently and she said, Au But F, you know, you were great at that No no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm British. If you just said to me, H, not bad, I'd say thank you very much. That's enough. That's all I can tolerate. Irely said I nearly said there's not a lot of ego in your profession. I mean there is a lot of ego in your profession. and you were one of the most successful television presenters of your generation and yet you don't seem to have any ego yourself. I'm glad it didn't say that now because that might have been filed under blowing smoke up your ar Yes, it would. But on the other hand, second h, second time, that have landed oally nice. lucky really All the time. Thank you. I've had that as a credit on my gravestone. That's interesting, isn't it? Because you would expect drama school, but you're in the background. Drama school's lovely. Yeah, central, you went I. Yeah. So that happen What's the word that I'm looking for? Liberal. Liberated. Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.. O the grammar as well Yes you know, tried smoking a bit of joint joint, weed, whateverver I wasn't good at that. I was sick But it was absolutely lovely. I adored it. It was a happy, very happy tears. I did enjoy school as well actually because school was kind of saafe and predictable where sometimes at home it wasn't. Yeah okay. So there's no particular ambition here. you just sort of bumbled. haveave a chat with a careers teacher. Careers teacher says It might be misreembered that Well, I suppose you want to be an actress or something. who hands you and you think, Well actually that does look quite. You see she fell into stage. Well, yees, she said, I expect you want to be an actress.. And I thought, Well, I've never shown any sign. But anyway, sheave me she said, Well, you can be a stage manager. And she handed me a leaflet for Central. and I went home and said to my mama, I'm going to be a stage manager. and she said She said, That's a terrible job Could you you know you're going to open that night and at four o'clock in the afternoon, someone says to you, Go and get me an elephant. What would you get the elevant. She went, OK, yeah you're find Did your mum work when you were growing? She taught. of course She taught. Yeah, she taught woodwork and drama. Who was at Central when you were there? There's nothing in the notes about this, but there must have been a few. Yes, there were. I think the outstanding one was um A young lady with blonde, very short, very petite, wore a huge cloth cap and an enormous gentleman's overcoat, so she looked a bit like a you know, a tramp in a way, smelling wonderfully of u Nina Richie Les Duton, which is a great perfume And after her second year, she vanished And she went to Hollywood And it turned out there was a park called Princess Leia for her And so she was there Debby Reynolds daughter? No way. I can't even remember Harry Fisher. Carry Fisher.. never knew that. Yeah. She was lovely She did a year at Central. Two. Two years at Central. Yeah Lord. She was lovely. Well, you knocked that one out of the park C That's absolutely extraordinary. Yes, yes. And so I mean, clearly there's no moments here where you're sort of itching to be on the stage yourself. You were Perfectly. The training was lovely.. You enjoyed doing. Lo working with actors in the rehearsal room, loved all that, loved the technical side of it, which was of course, I mean now I wouldn't be able to do the tech. Then it would just switch these lights on and off it was fine But yeah And what's your capacity forming friendships like?retty good. Yeah, I thought it might. I don't go I don't go mad. I don't always go, Oh, she's my best friend. Oh't no, that's my best friend. No, she's my best friend. I don't have that, but I have Several people who've come from that age And the exciting thing about getting older that I've found is that You don't expect to find friends when you're older and yet you do make new friends who are wonderful And there are lots of people in the world that you brush up against as you walk through life, some of them just for the moment, some for a chapter, very few of them stay for life But the ones I have now I have a really lovely little Ball of very funny women in Cornwall and their husbands and children and things it' great. When did Cornwall appear in your life? When and why did When I was tiny? Was it? Yeah, I think as a baby I was probably taken. We always had the same flat in Lou called the Dollphin. and oh you know, it was wonderful, Brat. we're going on holiday. When you're little sitting in the back of an old triumph Herald with no motorways, getting to Cornwall took forever. And going across Dartmor was always exciting because my mum would say, look at the prison. might be an escaped convict somewhere. One exciting summer. There was a police cordon on the road and somebody had escaped And so they were looking in the cars and I said we drove on and I said to my mother,W, you know why didn't they stop us? And she said, becausecause if he was an escapeed convlict, he'd be in exactly a family car pretending he's just going on holiday. But they could see that it wasn't that's clever. Yeah. And then we'd arrive in Lou, pile out of the car, my aunt, my uncle, my cousins, my grandmother, my mother, my sister and me I was the littleittlest, they'd all go off and have to deal with the beds and the unpacking, and I was allowed to scarper onto the beach on my own and just stand and look at the sea and feel the sand in my toes and I thought, wow. and it's sort of reached parts that other experices hadn't reached even at that age, something about not just the sand but about Cornwall itself. I don't know how I don't want to say woo woo. But it is a bit Yeah, it is, isn't it? There's something about Cornwall and people would say it if they were say, Oh well, Northumberland', the lakes. I get it a bit in North Norfolk. But there there is something beyond A nice view. Yes. I always say there are places in Cornwall where the veil is very thin. Oh I like that. You feel you can put your hand in and touch the past or maybe the future. Yeah. There is something about it And I live in a very small hamlet. There's not a pub or. We lost our postbox until I wrote to the post office and I said, Now look here. And they said, No, no, we'. So I wrote to the king I did and I wrote to our local MP.. And by Jove, within a fortnight, it was there. and it's postbx. Charles II King Charles should have you. it should have a little plaque on it. he right. I'll show a photo on it. R saved our post. Yes, yes. Gsh. there's a film out at the moment I don't you see Have you heard of it called Rose of Nevada? I'm longing to see it. Oh Did you see it? I saw it, ye It is, I mean you will obviously need to see it. I might go this some of the reasons that you've just touched on, but I mean it is It's not a comedy Oh N did you come out of that? cinema feeling very ulated I would say. I think you'll love it. but's a long, powerful, good story. It's that, but it also that what you just said about reaching into through the veil, the thinness of the veil could not be more appropriate for this film. Good. And when did when did it come back into your life after holidays? Did you when did you get your own place there? Well, when I u Yes, W It was great. As soon as I discovered Cornwall was somewhere I could live. when I was also a child, I thought, well, that's I'm going to do. Anyway Cut a very long story short. The first job in television I got after I left the theatre because you know I thought I might do something else. Yeah And I got a job at Westwood Television, which was in Plymouth, which is Devon but not far from the Tamar Bridge. So I said, I've got to live across the Tamar in Cornwall and I rented a lovely little side of an old Cornish house which has been made into a little annex And this farmer and his wife next door were so kind to me. they were my parents sort of thing when I was there. I was twenty two when I landed that job at Westwward And then about a year later there was a little cottage going in the village a fifteen thousand pounds and I got a hundred percent mortgage. I mean the gods were with me And so I bought that and did a lot of work doing this roof. There was no running water or did it all up And so I was very happy there for about six years. So I had lived in Cornwall then for six years. Tw cats, you know, happy as Larry And then I was working with the BBC by then in Plymouth and then Breakfast came on air and brereakfast time at the time. The teeam came down because I think they were doing a sort of regions roundup. And I got a phone call there. someomebody saw me and said, come to London so did a little bit there and then I landed the job of being either Selena, Scott? Y or Debbie Ricks, the news reader, so I went between the two of them standing At a very young age. I think I was twenty five, twenty six. It's not bad, is it? For someone who had no particular ambition in that Exactly in that immediate direction. I literally have just bumbled about going somebody gives you something else. Yeahah, but I mean it's not. By accident that this has happened. was there an umbilical still connecting you to Cornwall? Because for people who don't know, your novels they draw very, very heavily on. Yeah the majority of them are set in Cornwall. And also my readers like them, so I'd be stupid to change that. So that's fine. and I'm happy. No, absolutely Yeah, I was very attached to Cornall, but then when London turned up and said, you know, do you want to do this? I couldn't keepe it all going. No, fair enough, and it is, as you say, it's not exactly a tube right away, is it? back up a bit. How did you get that first job? So stage management, I never know what comes after stage management. Do you know what I mean? Company manager. Yes. You be company manager and then you move on to whatever. yeah. Yeah. I was working with a fantastic director, Jonathan Lynn, filmmaker, ye. He was our artistic director. It was a company called Give me some more names. whoo were the actors?? The first We've had Care Fisher, so I presume Cher was probably on the. She was great but not right for the part. It was a shame. Yes, the first cast I worked with Was Sheila Hancock? God. And u Leslie, beautiful blonde lady Ash No, not, Leslie. I do to Leslie. 't wor. Andela shuts that in that chair. Yes,. She was great. She's magnificent. She isn't she? Yeah So I was the assistant stage manager, which meant I ran around, You want tea, you want coffee, canan I get anything? Put the money in the meters for me because we were in Eaton Square, you know. Put the money in the meters. Yeah, okay. And you were running out of you just just sort I ofve had my fun now. Are you or I'm just sort of No, I was I know. I was made deputy sor DSM. so then ASM's are out all day sourcing props and doing all that. DSM means you actually are in the rehearsal room with the actors working on the script with them and with the director and Jonathan was just lovely and after rehearsals or during lunch breaks, he'd actually ask my opinion on things Be we did a show as well with Timberreick Taylor, Graham Garden, all funny, wonderful David Touch of Frost. Yes, Jason. Thank you. David He's also sat in that chair. I'll stop doing that M. David Jason.. Wonderful people and I really enjoyed that. and then I was offered, I don't probably maybe I was shit and that's why they said, tellell you what firm what we need is a marketing manager and you'd be very good faced to go around to the theaters, selling tickets, telling everybody what's going on and you can get to local radios and do it go o okay. So off I went. And I stopp being a stagement. I really missed the actor the actors, I missed the theatre, I missed the all the long hours and the difficult times And did that for a while and then I said, no I'm not I had to leave. Yeah. Okay, so that's when you sort of thought it wasn'tilt a little bit. You just did two things then that interest me. You said maybe I was shit jokingly, but you also said they used to ask my opinion as if there was anything surprising about that. Well it was wonderful. I loved to that. But why would they not ask your opinion because I was sitting there and I was only twenty three, twenty four. I don'to No it was less wasn't I twenty one, twenty two I saw Jonathan about a year ago, met up with him in London. He was so lovely. He was very sweet. Anyway, there we go. So I mean I suppose one word that has never been applied to you in that case is pushy No. I don't I really believe that. take to the bud, takeake it to the bank. But I mean A I don't think I'd want to get on the wrong side of you. And B You're not afraid of asking for things because now in nineteen eighty, you write to pretty much every radio and television station in the country and say, canan I have a go, please? Yes, literally that And in the office of where I was work as a market, I wrote the letter and then Romeoed off one hundred of them, but seventy two letters, I think I sent off And I got replies. I've still got the bundle of them saying who do you think? This is brilliant. And then I got a rejection is better than nothing. Oh absolutely. you exist? Yes, yes. I. I seen. They know I am alive. Exactly. Yeah. So I actually did I did an audition for Westwood And I met up with the radio four people who I said, Well, you know, I've got quite a good voice, perhaps I could do some of the you know links between the programme. Yes, maybe. But at first of all, we'd have you writing them. M Oh okay I said,m actuallyually I'm waiting for this other people to call me back from Westward. And oK, said just let me know. and when do you think you might hear? I said, Well maybe I don't know in a day or two. said okay. well, when you hear Or if you don't hear before the end of day tomorrow, ring me beforehand. I say, o. So nothing happened Westwood didn't ring. so I had to ring up radio four and I said I'd love the job. I haven't heard from them. so yes, please. And he said, Yes, That's lovely. greatreat. weelcome. Put the phone down, phone rang. Westward, you've got the job. Then I had to ring him back. it was Jim Black. and he I said I'm very, very sorry. I don't know. wouldould you be able? And he said, I tell you what Let's forget we ever spoke and good luck. Oh that's nice. We're really nice. Isn't it Where did that come from then? because there's a combination there of seellf belief. and also U What's the word? It's not ambition, is it? It's just a belief that things are possible. I I just have faith in life somehow It does come along and I You know, I love living in my little house, but I really wouldn't mind living in a caravan. You know That kind of stuff. I'm not particularly needy U And that specific career path. Wh do you think? Why did that appear in front of you? God only knows.id you watch a lot of T telly? Did you sit there thinking theseese continuity links are awful? No neverever anything that organised. Come on. No, just worked that way. and I Yeah, the BBC in Plymouth they The man running it at the time, he died actually, David. he was very nice, but he rang me up and he said, u I u When I was working for Westwood Ta I'd like to have a meeting. Would you come for lunch? Oh yes, yes, lovevely. We go up for lunch. someomehere in a restaurant that he thought no one would see us. Right And we went in, it was completely empty and he said, Ah. I hope you were very impressed. I've booked all the whole remom. And he said, lookook, what we want you to do is present our six o'clock, six thirty, you know local news Would you come and do that? I ha't He said, well, you know, it'll be sixty pounds a day And I was on thirty pounds a day and I thought Oh So yeah, that happened Your continuity announcing was on screen. Yes. So this people won't remember this, will they? or some people won't even be aware of it. Is it in between programs, you'd cut to It a little tiny studio like a cupboard. Yes. and someone you would tell people what was coming up next and So you'd run the commercial break Yeah. And then they'd be busy going, stay with us on Westwward tonight because we've got it seven o'lock, blah blah blah, and seven o St still got it for still got it. Oen to open the station in the morning. Yeah. You know, so it's like turning the ignition on and turning it all on G into the little booth, the cupboard and it was um This is Westward Television broadcasting to you from the Transmitters of the Independent Broadcast Authority. It's now over to London for the latest ITN, local and international news. Got it. That's how open the show. Isn't that funny? Sash. Boom You do S some of it was envisioned. so Saturday night six o'clock, Saturday night you arrived in your going out clothes. You were inviting an audience to an evening of entertainment That would last until Sat Sunday night It's funny you know, television wasn't just a An screen It was almost another organism in the corner of the room and continuity announcers were a big part of it. Yes. Yes, it had respect. Yes. It really did. And it was the days maybe, you know golden days of sitcoms and dramas and I mean, at the moment, I think television content's looking pretty good. Yeah healthy. But there was a bit of a slump, but it was good, it was good. How did you know you had a wonderful voice? Be like everybody else from various generations, before you arrived today kind of in my head already knew you. I have a sort of which you know, you' be familiar with that feeling. Until you just did that then that continue, when you turned up that gear I just that's just firm talk, that's firm Britain talkking. But how did you know you had such Be you do have a really lovely voice? Well, thank you. I often think if I have had You know, but apparently we all are given a god given talent of something Yeah. And mine is that I can read fluently. You can give me anything that I've not seen at all, and I can read it and make sense And I worked with a director who because I mean, I was in my twenties th think, yeah, I can smoke, I can do everything. And he said, putut that out, you're going to ruin the timombre of your voice carried on smoking us, but I did I was lucky. my father has a very good voice, I had a very good voice. He did wonderful audiob books. He would do a lot of those Jeffrey Archers and Dick Frances in particular And people often say to me, o, we used to listen to him and he did wonderful women's voices apparently. so that's nice I like it, I like reading aloud. I'm happiest loud. Ask me to read anything aloud. Yes. Come around everybody. So just you knew. I'm very comfortable doing this and people like it. Yeah. And David invites you out for lunch and offers to double your salary. Yes. So the next thing you know, you're at the BBC doing rather more than continuity. Did you take that in your stride They put me on there Let me get this right, hang on. No, no. I'd already done the kind of news desk when I was at Westwood. Okay. But now I was You know, one of a pair We were the co hosts with a very good guy called Chris Denham who went on to do all the Floyd Cicking things. And he and I got on very well together. And I learnnt a lot there. I think working When you're out in not the provinces because that's theatrical, but in the areas the regions. Thank you, the regions You can really make a lot of mistakes and people are very forgiving. And that was helpful, helpful for understanding that the audience are very sophisticated. So if something's gone wrong, Just admit it. And you know have a laugh and they like all that. It's okay. be relaxed and they'll be relaxed.ember somebody saying to me very early on? Um If a woman looks nervous in a studio, radio, television, whatever Those nerves will run like wildfire particularly women. If a man says, Where's my pen? Where's my pen? Get me my pen? People just jump and get it. If a woman goes, Excuse me, excuse me. C I just have could I have a g? it's like, Oh my god, she doesn't know what she's doing. She give it to the man. She's gone mad So that was that was a good lesson to stay calm Sse, I don't care. I don't care if I haven't got lipstick on and my mascar is running down my face. Hey, that's life. you know H. And did you enjoy it? Yeah, hually. what did it what parts did it reach that other things hadn't reached? Wow I just it just pushed pushed another set of experiences into me and I was very willing to accept it and look at it and think about it. Another piece of good advice someone gave me was this years and years and years ago. forty six years I've been doing this Um, Somebody said to me, When you're in a studio, you're doing a live show say Oh, I'm so tired at of late night. I've got a bit of a headache, I've got because as far as the audience are concerned, you live in bloody Lalaand. and you're there. to make them feel better And that's a really good one You have a sense of responsibility then already, even though you're still in your early early to mid twenties, you have a responsibility to the job and the viewer Yes, definitely The view is important and when I're doing this morning The interviews that were the most interesting and I think you'll probably agree, is the people who aren't famous, but who have some incredible story to tell and they trust you with it. And they trust you that the questions you're going to ask might be searching But they know it's gentle and we'll get to the truth. You don't need to say So you saw your husband stabbed to death and, no, no, it's not that. Well there are a couple of people who do prefer that approach. Well, I worry, you know Nsort in that direction. News reports and news writing is all about, you know A wife was stabbed to death now Wh why don't you Calm down that aggressive speech. It's not good for anybody There's a way of telling that story without. The things that work in real life probably work in our professional things as well and you'd never approach a subject Anymore then you turn up at the pub with a list of topics and then start tipping them off one by one and We'll talk about something else now. Precisely. I had Guy Gomer on the radio show today. You know the guy when he got booked by actually. Oh and he was the taxi driver. Oh, it's a wonderful story. Is? And I was looking forward to that interview more than I was looking forward to the last Prime minister who came in. was Jges Its the last prime minister who came in it was the current one actually. It's amazing. wonder who would be next week? Yeah, stop it. didid you allow yourself to think that you must be rather good at this because you're moving now very rapidly through the ranks? Did you have pride? I don't mean Preening I just mean simple professional pre. Yes, I think it gave me confidence Yeah, for sure Uh, not that, you know, you're not person who I know bloody everything in this room and I would not that. I hope I never projected that. But it was confidence in wow, you know But I never really saw it as big. Right, you know, My mum rang me up one day when I'd interviewed Tony Blair and I was going home in the car. and she just said, Oh I thought it was very good. and I mean that's the prrime minister. you know, there are only so many hours on television you have every day and you did that one, you know That was nice. That's a lovely way of. Isn't it, lovely? What did she make it all in the very early days? What did she make of it all at this period? Yeah, she wasn't in Cornwall, so she didn't know that. Oh, but yes. Regional TV's mad like that, right? Be you can open fates. Yes, yes. And then go three miles up the road and you couldn't get arrested. It's absolutely incredible. It was rather lovely.es. Yeahah I can imagine that. coming back in Cornw, think, Oh, I' better put some lipstick on back in Cornwall. But But the move to London, twenty five years old onto one of the sort of it was a huge deal, breakfast time And then, you know, your mum's going to be aware of that, but so is everybody else Yes. Yes Again, you know, I'd leave the show. out by about nine o'clock so about ten past nine,'d be I'd walk out of the studios down near Shepherd's Bush And u just trot about. noody And this is before mean It was just on the cusp, wasn't it? when everybody appearing on breakfast television was a new type of celebrity But that was too early for you. just or your role wasn't big enough or L Cillina Scott was. Yeah, she was huge. and such a lovely person got on really well with her. It was difficult with Frank Boff Yeah. She found it difficult with Fank Bf and one day she said to me, Breakfast with me Fern. O, so she took me to the Savoy. Thank you. does she doing? Oh, the ritsz I'm sorry,'sute short walks the writ. Breakfast And we walked in and of course, the way to your usual table and took her to Selena's table. And we sat there and we had a lovely breakfast and she said How are you finding Frank I said u He hasn't got much of a sense of humour, has he? And she laughed and she said, No. She said, hereere's the trick He has everything in his head, but he can't add liib to ask him a question and youll fall apart.. And I thought, Well, Danceelina, becauseuse it was great because she was getting trrounced by him. He said one day watching her on a film and I was sitting next to him that morning, I was her. Yeah. And he was watching her cycling across the highighlands or something. and he said, look at her. She even rides a bike with her knees together ice don. So that So I did employ the ask him a question and he just couldn't do it. It worked. Yeah. So he was actually the auto cutie, so to speak, as opposed. Well he had his agenda was very strong and not elastic enough, perhaps. Yeah. I mean, the first time I tried it, Mother's Day was coming up and we were talking about the price of flowers, you know And so I said to him, What does your wife flower? what flowers are your wife's favorite you went Yeah. And you said to me, What are yours? Yeah Really? Yeah. Oh and this is great because now he's on the back foot every time you're sitting next to him because you might ask him another question like that. So interesting. Oh genius. And he would want to some people'sots Yeah. And early in the morning when you get the brief of the show And he would take all the oxygen. it was my interview. Yes, yes, did we look. What so I'd be just like And and he sometimes there was no Lmans was coming on. and he said, Whatort of person is no Lemmondons? We'll have him. I thought . Yeah it was d business. I mean we say it's a weird or I said it's a weird business, but actually As Ricky Gervt taught us, you could be working in a paper factory in Slu, couldn't you and still be dealing with characters and personalities just like this Ewhere they aren't they They are absolutely every Can I tell you the story when I first met? Frank. Yeah. This is the God's truth So I was invited to meet them all for lunch because I was the new person joining the team. Frank was on my right hand side, the editor was on my left. You got to the p part where everyone was smoking and stubbing out on the pudding plate as you could, and he leant back in his chair with his fag on turned his knees towards him and he went Well I wonder how long it'll be before I'm having an affair with you. because I do have a very big cost Did you ask her what his wife's favorite flowers were? Yes. Not at that stage because I didn't know. And I went home and I told my mother and she went, Oh, that's dreadful. And that's how we coped with it. we said, o, dreadful man, you know that was that Not even short really? justalling behaviour, but just Well, that was kind of the way it was. I'm not saying that was right, but it was I know you're not saying that was right. It's a good lord We're kind of approaching the bit now we're P will be familiar with what you were doing, but there's a return from London to South Hampton, isn't it to do coast to coast south, which is and now you're the main cheese no shared cheese. withith Fred Diner. Yes. It's still there, I think, is he? No, he's just recently Oh he just recently an incredible broadcast. Yes. A perfect example actually of what we were talking about of being the most famous man in town until you moved to the next town along, although he did national work as well. Of course he did. But that was another move. So you're kinetic, aren't you?'re not looking for the next? Yeah, I left because I was very unhappy that the The producer, sorry, the editor hated me, Frank hated me. it was made very, very difficult for me. There was one morning when The editor walked in at eight o'clock, sort of halfway through the morning and the news was being read in the corner and we had to be quiet sitting on the sofa And he came through the forest of cameras and guests were sitting around And he said to me, You are terrible. You are awful. Now sit down there and do another hour. And after the show, I mean, I managed it. After S called me at his office He closed the door and locked it. He was in there with his deputy editor And they just shredded me And I cried and cried and cried It was a Friday And he said, you're not leaving this office until you puts some makeup on. I said, Well's a bag on my desk. And he went and he got my bag and bookke it in and I had to put my makeup in front of him. Because he didn't want everyone to know you'd been crying. Well, yes, I mean this what he did was really bad. It was a really And it desiccated me. We said I was shit you should look more about how Frank does it. He's the blah blah, blah, laa. Well, Frank hated me he you wanted to get rid of me So in between time, I had an interview well I got phoned by Greg Dyke, who was doing TVAM. and Greg rang me and said, But you must know you're not shit if Greg Dyk's ringing you up. Well yeah, but at the time I didn'tuse it. No, it doesn't matter, does it? becauseuse if someone's punching you, it's like saying it doesn't hurt Yeah courseuse it hurt And then he said, Yeahah, I'm going down to TVS. noobbody knows we need we need some new people on to do the show, the six o'clock show and we'd like to meet you. so That happened and then the editor, the bad ed, the horrible editor left and another one came in who was very pompous. And he called me into his office and he said, Yes, I see your contracts coming to an end I said yes. Actually, I'm thinking of leaving anyway. Don't play that old trick on me. Okay, well, yeah, no bye. bye then. So that was easy. Good for you. And there I. Did you allow yourself a sort of air punch as you left that room? There are bits of times when you just think Hm, that landed. and so off to South end off to Southampton, where you have nice chemistry. Is chemistry a word that you recognise? I mean, because you've worked with some absolute tweats some tws. Yes. But you still to the viewer, you might have appeared to have chemistry with them is what I mean? Yes. And we did. R. So it is a thing. It's not a side of anything offs screen. it just works on. No no exactly no, it worked. And we had a very similar sense of humour and I learnnt a lot from him. You know, you do learn a lot from people the good stuff and the bad stuff Yes, of course. Yeah. So this was a nice period and What came next? was it you do after five on ITV, so you're doing regional and national Yes and Redady said he cook changes everything? Yes. R. So I had my twins, my twin boys And u My husband and I You know me longing. For a child, we got twins, which was just lovely And then I went up to do the programme after five, which was great, but it was just after the boys well I had left the boys. they were about four months old and I thought I can go and do some work. Well I wasn't in the right space. I had a bit of postnatal depression and I wasn't right at all and then I broke my wrist and I was travelling in from London out to Buckingamshire, trying to go up escalators at Marlabon with a broken wrist and then getting him go home to two boys and try to bathroom, you know? It was And looking back, I was clearly mad and just overtired. And so I had a phone call one day in the middle of doing an after fiveive show. commcial great phone calls I have taken Just like it doesn't it? It wasn't my phone call actually, it was a phone call to the boss of the program who'd been an old friend from TVS. Oh that's nice. And he came into the studio during the break and he said to me Just telephone calls today. S here from Peter Basil getet Oh yeah I said, Yeahah, you've got the gig. So that was ready to steady cook So that was like, o, well, bye everybody. And ready steady, we could do three shows in an afternoon. So F camera at two and out at six And I would do three days of that and then you're away for a full night know whatever. you know, it was really nice. And it was I mean bonkers are bonkers You know, when did you realize how it had sort of broken out of both genre and schedule to become a sort of television. Well, we just kept hearing that the ratings were just growing and growing and growing on BBC too. Yeah. And my husband at the time was a big cheese in ITV and he said in the boardrooms guys were going, Can you tell your wife to stop it? Wind it in a bit. Yeah, yeah yeah. So that was fun destroying us. And why was the show so successful? Be it I mean, a large part of it was you. you're probably too modest to say that. The format was pretty good. The chefs and there was proper chemistry there. The chefs all clearly loved you Yeah. and there was that wonderful thing. She don't get on television, genuinely friendly rivalry. So they really wanted to beat each other, but they didn't want to like crush their opponent into the floor, I don Maybe one or two. There was skullduggery. peopleeople would get on the set and one chef would go to the other chef's station before we started and turn off the water and the electricity and everything. So suddenly they couldn't turn the ovens on and the hobs wouldn't work and all that. So there was sort of some friendly shit that went on down there But it was a good show and I did enjoy it because My agent at the time was very, very ill. he was dying, Peter Plant and he got All his customers, all his clients, good jobs before he went. That was his main thing. And he got me ready to saidady cook. He said, Please go and do the audition. I said, I hate cooking. I'm not interested. I don't want please for me. You'll get a car and a bottle of champagne. Oh well all right. And because I didn't like cooking, because I knew very little about it, I could ask the stupid questions And I'm sure you ve heard this one, you know, always ask the Daft lads questions because it makes you look There's going to be people in youries who really don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And so I could say, what what's that for then? Why? What? Yeah. And then one of them,w Andrewy Warrel Thompson used to say to me, Look, when you can see I'm having a problem, don't come next to me and okay, No, that's when they want to see it. You exactly right. Y, they became stars as well. I mean it was extraordinaryly launch pad, wasn't it? Really? Wonderful, Re? And there was so much sense it was. I mean it must have been lovely and inevitably the phone rings again as a consequence of the success and the children are a little bit older and they offer you Fridays, I think on this morning Yes Yes, that's right. was Yes. It was Fridays with John Lesny.. And Emma we got on very well together And Yeah Yeah ye, hang on, I've got to get that straight in my head. where have I jumped a head?? No, no, it's fine. ninetty nine I think now Yes, so Bys were born yes, the boys were born in nineteen ninety seven. So they were just over a year when I started ready, steady And then nineteen ninety nine yes This morning came and it was It was a programme I always thought I was built for and had done an audition for at one stage I didn't get it. Yeah And built for it because is that it's kind of what you do, isn't it? It's a combination of warmth and rigor. Oh I like that you good? I was frightened when I thought aed. Well no big I said it. and and now you personally and professionally move I think within three years you're doing the the rest of the week. You now move on to it. So this plus ready steady cook must have turned you into somebody who would get stopped regularly in the street. No. Oh yes. Did you enjoy that U sometimes it's a bit of I must say people are very, very nice to me. Very rarely do I get something Really? Yeah always nice. and you know it takes nothing to say, yes, of course I have a selfie. Yes, of course. and sometimes but do you remember when we met and the blah, blah blah? if I can understand the location, I think Yes, I think we must have, yes. It doesn't take thirty seconds to just be of course. Hello. Of course And the gap between you ons screen and you offs screen is much smaller than it is with somebody like well, no maybe not. Yeah, someone like Frank Boff, for example, there isn't a huge difference between you ons screen and you offs screen ust. that's nice. thank you. I hope that's nice. ye, really nice. Yeah. G. becausecause with some people the bloody you add it, it really is. you know, you can see the flch the switch being flicked as they walk onto the set Yeah. and you see I'm not a good actor. Right. And I know I'm not a good actor. So this really is as genuine as I can be That's nice. And now everybody's familiar with the next few years of your career. I have to ask you, and you would expect me to I mean you've got now John Leslie and Phillip Schofield on your kind of most regular don't forget to work with Frank. Frankboff before that. I mean, please don't let me work with any other m. Yeah, well that's why I'm keeping my distance actually. How do you process because you knew what Frank Boff was like all along, but with presumably with John Lesley and with John Lesley and Phillips Gofield, you I've been somewhat surprised by some of the stuff that's come out Well, I will say that I really like John, I still like John. I have never seen anything that would set my I'm alarms off Nothing. I know that if we nipped over to the pub after a show Girls would be all over. I witnessed that actually. Did you So you know I saw that at a party. And ahu. Okay, Well, I wasn't partying, of course at that stage, but that kind of party? It was just a launch, a bookm. s yeah. But I mean, he's a big, tall handsome guy Yeah and single Yes There's an awful lot that actually you right and u He's always been acquitted of everything. That's true. And he's you know, appeared having a life of his own doing property developments, I think, I think is his ex model says in between jobs. He has a sense of humour, And I was very fond of him and he would come home with me because we might be cooking chicken. He loved roast chicken. So he'd come home with me, we cooked chicken and all the kids were hanging around. They loved him and he'd say, Oh, look at the leego. He' be on the floor doing theg takeake a picture of that and then send it into Blue Piza. You'll get a badge for that. And they're going, W we? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. He walked with the pram with withith Grace, who's now twenty nine down to school to pick the boys up And it was raining. and I said, Oh I gave him an orange anarorac because the sleeves were finishing at his elbows, you know We walked into the playground. I mean it was just people swooning all over the place. So I have a lot of time for John I mean he rang me up last year. then we might ring every couple of years. that's it, but it lovely and then Of course with all of that newspaper speculation and he was sacked from the show and everyone on the show we were all heartbroken. I will tell you that and really missed him And Philip had been doing One day a week, so John was doing four before all this happened.. So I was used to working with Philip and u And we had to get to know each other very quickly. So we sat in my dressing room after the show and I had a bottle of whiskey in there and we drank half of it told each other everything. I thought, everything. Right And laughed and had a good time and We had to fix it from there. So that's that's how I did that And then in two thousand nine that you get to the end of that rainbow U I'd already left Yeah, it was just wow One day I'll I'm not going to cry. No, no, my feeling I have very mixed emotions because there was a very good relationship on and off air. and things got difficult and I couldn't Well I was having my own stuff all in the newspapers being followed by Paps because of Gastric Bandgate, because I was a victim of hacking, I found out only five years ago. Right. So that goes back seventeen years of being hacked. That's a violent. We were Yeah. And so, you know, a private medical condition, why if a man had had a gastric band up no. Exactly. But I was shredded for that one And I had to keep going somehow, but I had an awful lot of attention, too much tension had overly attention spotted on me And things did become difficult. And then the day I did resign, I had no idea I was going to resign that day But I was sort of suuggest it. One day I'll tell you but he, you know. Okay. Yeah How you How'd you got by this point two thousand five, two thousand six. did you have a little dream of writing novels and sett sort of stepping well, particularly perhaps when the attention became unfair and close to unbearable It was unbearable. Was that your pod, your escape pod in any sense? Or did you just drift into this as well that Well ye what drifted in was before all that Penguin rang me up So yeah, penguin rang me up. wouldould you like to do your autobiography? And then of course, we were, oh, then there's a big story as well to add to the end of the autobiography. And it went really well And because people really like you Oh, someome people don't. Well, ye. Well I live in a world of people being very nice and I'm very happy. But it's, you know, you get back what you put out, I think. Well Thank you. That's kind of you. But that would explain A, it was a very well written memoir and funny and warm, but B. peopleople really wanted to Readab b? Well, that was lovely. Yeah. And Penguin realized you could write Yeah, well you know, you know I can write a little voiceover script they, how much is a book? Well, about eighty to one hundred thousand wors. What? So then Harper Collins came because the autobography went well, Harper Collins went well. And then the novel started and I was like, ye, Gungo, off we go. write what you know, we in television, bl, blah blah, blah, blah I thought, And it went okay. And then Harb Colllin said, Right, we're going to give you two book deal. Off you go, you'll find now on your own. donon't need us So then every book now gets harder and harder. Oh does it? Yeah Because what? because you You've got to find the subject matter or because you just find the process the process. Do you? Yes, absolutely. Really it's a real I hate writers who say it's easy or that they can't wait to get behind the desk in the morning. They drive me. That's nonsense. That's nonsense The writer's profile, you know, the graph starts up here and goes Yppy, page one quickly goes And you spend another six months feeling utterly miserable, wanting to slit your wrists. And then at the end you've typed the end. Thank you.. That's how it goes. So you don't lose yourself in these books, isn't it? I On a good day. Yeah. On a good day it's like I think Douglas Adams said, it's like throwing yourself at the ground and missing. You just go whs into the st's the best day best day. That's a good one. That's a good one Hemingway said wrriting is easy. You sit yourself in front of a typewriter and you bleed Gosh. Yeah P people who are not familiar with your Uvre of fiction, what should we tell them? What do they mean? Mostly set in Cornwall. and thankfully people like reading about it, so that's good. I think generally about ordinary human beings in this time trying to get through complicated relationships and situations and you know sibling rivalry and ex parents and all of that stuff. And I find that quite fun. I tried to make it laugh and I try to have a laugh and also You have to write a little bit of sex, which is a bit, you know I quite enjoy that actually, and the kids go, donon't tell my mother, donon't. It's not pornography. it's just that people do happen to have sex and so this is it. Odd story the only thing people don't do in books is go to the laboratory really, isn't it?, yes, perhaps I'll be're right you're right. And the latest series it's not a series, but the latest book is A Cornish Legacy, which is out now. Do you have any boxes left unticked? from Britain. is it 'ause you've never really been a big box ticker, have you? You've been more a phone ringer than a box ticker. Phone answerr. Pone answer, yes,. You know what I'd love? Okay, this is what I would love I wrote a book called The Good Servant, which is about our late quQeens growing up with her governess Crawfy who then got in our language cancelled because she wrote a book And I've done a bit of research into that and was it really her? Be it's a much more nuanced story. and I really love I researched it an awful lot. and I wrote it as obviously some of it is fiction because you have to. but It's pretty much as spot on as it might have been, I think. And I thought this is gonna this is my champion book. And actually didn't sell as well as the others because it didn't say Cornwall. Oh o. So this is what I really hope for it, I think. I want to keep it alive and I want Netflix, you know? Hello? Yes, certainly, it should be a movie indeed, Yes, yes. So I'm just waiting for that phone call. Can you sort that one out? Well I don you're the one with the magic phone. There's a great deal that I can do about it TV would do a very good job on it. They absolutely would. Well you never know, do you? I mean, to be fair, you'd have thought that post crrown and things like that they'd be looking around Have you sent it to all the right people? you Have you done your one hundred letters and sent them to every For Ay, that's the one thing I haven't done Yeah come f circle.. that's where it began. I've just got to find Ro machine. That's where the next chapter will begin The Cornish Legacy by Fern Britain is out now It's done very well, I will say. Yes It's out now in paperback. Yes, which fits into your suitcase, which is the most important. Indeed it does. Is it Wilder Whoo or Wilderhoo? Wilder. Wilder. A crumbling Manorhouse on Cornwall's Atlantic coast. Yes based on a real house, Ponock house, which was ore by a husband and wife who had it, I think it was in his family, and then unfortunately he died before he saw it all finished Beautiful. And I was filming there and this got into my head this house and it did for a couple of years and I thought, it's telling me it wants to be a character. so it became a character. And it's lovely. and some funny people. It has a funny old housekeeper called Mrs. Joy who may or may not be real She kind of floats in and out at all the right times and even I don't know Through that thin veil. Through that thin veil You love a story, don't you? I love telling a story. I love reading a story I love hearing your stories. Firm Britain, thank you. Oh, James, thank you very much indeed. This has been a Global Player original production