Future Projects and Artistic Growth

It This is a Global Player original podcast. When I found Rentrroocism, I thought, Well, this is mine. D? I haven't that to discourage you from going down this road You might get more. truth if you speak to the puppet actually. How quickly did things develop? The stage door At the Swan Theatre, there's suddenly the big fluffy dog and a teach yourself ventriloquism kit. He had the invitation to make me a ventriloquist Hello and welcome to Full Disclosure, a podcast project conceived entirely to let me spend more time with interesting people than I'd ever get on the radio. Nina Conti, welcome Thank you. It's lovely to see you. We couldn't decide whether you would come Unaccompanied or not? we were on T to hooks. I'm glad you've come unacompanied, unless you are you? unless you're hiding something. Well, no, I mean, my hand could come up likeortton. You know, it is supposed to be a searching but pleasant experience, full disclosure. Yes. I've listened to it and I find it to be so. all of those things, but but of course with your puppets, they can be camouflaged sometimes. So I did wonder whether or not every time I asked you a vaguely searching question, someone else would answer it. Like I'd deflect. You might get more truth if you speak to the puppet actually because yes, it's like the three There's a fable isn't there if one lies and one doesn't. But actually it switches the monkey and my characters do. unlikely event that anyone listening to this isn't familiar with your work.' I mean we should stress that what you do is genuinely extraordinary. the combination of live improvisation with quuite high tech Ventriloquism is you've invented an art for. you do something that nobody else does I don't know if I can take credit for inventing something that no one else does But I suppose I do it on Um The oh God, I'm thinking trying to think of the word hoof. Is that? hoof is good On the hoof. On the hoof the hop On the hoof? In' They both work. C couldn't work out That's the thing I find most sort of pant wettingly funny is the speed with whiched putting words into people's mouth. Yes, it's amazing when it takes me so long to remember one I mean, if she went on stage we'd be in trouble. But yeah, it is it's a It's a skill of responding to what's there or what's suggested So I put masks on audience members for anyone who hasn't seen which I control the mouths of And then I watch their body language and I try to make them say the stuff it looks like they might be thinking. So it's just very beadady eyed work, I think, what I'm doing to see what it looks like would make me laugh that they'd be saying. So I was watching a few prior to this and I did actually because I watched it slightly differently from when I do as a normal punter because I was trying to work out how you do it. And that was my breakthrough discovery is that you know that people are going to bend double with embarrassment or that there are things that we do aren't there? There are physical reactions that we have to scenarios and it's like it's very chicken and egg. the gesture, the words, the words, the gestures into doing the things like when the woman said, I'm pregnant And you just you know she's going to kind of but just it's absolute. it's a form of alchemy, I think. when it's going well, it must feel extraordinary. It does feel like cooking Look it starts all igniting. and when you're working with someone, I get a bit sort of dizzy and heady with it too because it's kind of exciting and we're doing something that we don't know where it's going and you know, we're both in a similar mind state, I think, me and the audience member.. And they've realised they've got quite a lot of power. Y because they notice that something got a laugh and then they say, okay, that's my game if I do that then you know, it'll work again. So they sometimes repeat actions They pick it up quickly. And there's jeopardy there as well because I feel fear watching it. I mean there is an absolute sense of anything could happen there. Yes I feel fear. Yeah. Yeah they're not surprised. Yeah. but they might be rubbish at it or they might just stand stock still. I mean, just And that's when you have to let go of your expectations because they never help you ever. I mean, in life, I think that's key to have very like zero expectations of anything. Well, you can never be disappointed. Well, exactly, But it's sort of slightly different from lowering your standard. But it's just not expecting anything. Because I might think that person looks like they'd be funny if they took a sort of hy, toy attitude or something like that. And then I'm forcing it and I haven't looked at them and I'm doing something else than what's in the room. So it's like a tuning in thing is what brings the spoils. But Before we rewind to your early days, was there a moment through. Was there a moment where you felt and thought on a stage that this If not entirely unprecedented, then certainly rather special thing that you were doing was really, really working Yess there were incremental breakthroughs and I sort of became interested in clowning at one point, which is getting to be a bit of a boring word these days, but and a boring thing actually. But I I did find that quite useful. goingo on stage with nothing facing a group full of other clowning students who who would sort of But I don't know, waiting to see if you fail and having really very nothing. I found that quite exciting. It's like a real petry dish you just have nothing and then you realize that when you're honest, that's will get the laugh. And if you bring your silly ideas of what you think will be funny, Eat God, help you. It'll be grim. There was a more sort of obvious thing was I had that mask. I had my first ventrlous mask And I Floyd and mate tenth, they were an audience member. I said I'd make them dance and then they a sort of reluctant dance. and it was pretty funny. so I kept that in and I kept one time he couldn't come. And I had that bit in the show and I thought I should risk it as someone really And it was it was actually about fifty times funnier And I was had to be on my toes and it wasn't cheating. I mean I look back on that and think, that's so naf. That's just cheating and it's not fun. so I never really look back. but I kept the risks small, just little little bits and then grow, grow, grow and then eventually I just end up doing an entire show with no script, which is makes me very happy Yes, I can imagine. Because I don't like writing. Right, let's back up. You are obviously the daughter of Tom Conty and Cara Wilson, somethingomet which I mean, from what I've read about you, you've always had quite Quite a difficult relationship, not with them But with the fact of Their fame. It is interesting, isn't it? Yes. Is that what comes across with a little with cursory research? I think before Nepo Baby, how do you say cursory by the way? Oh, well, maybe not. weeks. Yes No, no, I'm sorry, I just didn't want to presume you'd been twling before Nepoaby was even a thing, you were worried that that was how you would be perceived Nepo finding Nepo. I call it Nepo. Nepo sorry. But no Nepo's fine. I'm I was very worried about that. Yes, it didn't have a word Well, I suppose yeah, did have a word was nepotism. But I didn't I didn't like it. I didn't want to be accused of it. I was really anxious and I I mean but I didn't have the Hutzbur to change my name and drive toink about out. Think about that. I thought, well, if you don't like this, that's what you have to do. Yeah ye But that felt weird to go Yes. someomeone else with the different So mean it' can we emerge like Line two of that story, isn't it? Line one is I changed my name. Line two, She's Tom Conti's daughter. Why she called herself Blankingop? also if I'm really honest, I probably wanted the help. Yeah, yes, No I this a hard business to crack into and I thought, well any help I can get I hadn't gone to drama school because my dad had told me not to. And then and they'd also my parents suggested you know it was a good idea to get a degree, which you can't help but take as a little vote of no confidence. they have a need to fall back on safety net. I thought, al right, okay, well it's not going to be easy then. And then I wentt studied philosophy for a while, which was very entertaining doesn't lead directly to anything at all except an existential crisis.. And then And then I got an agent that my dad helped me get So there's the nepotistic. It can get you be the threshold of a doorway, but it can't get you a residence in the room did not get me a job I failed to get a job four years and then I put show on a little pub theatre And then I started to started to work on jobs that were, you know, had other jobs teming jobs and stuff And I would just do sort of free stuff, but it was really interesting stuff. It was Ken Campbell and that's kind of like the drrum school I went to with this kind Maverick director And that then gave me the confidence to sort of build, build my own thing. And then when I found Rent Trotoquism, I thought, well, this is this is mine. This is not my dad's. This is totally mine. and I really Held on too ahead. thinking this will be this is a unique thing for me Was it always obvious that you were going to be a performer? Not because of who your parents were, but because of who you were as a child Well, I putting on shows from a very young age, like a parties and things like that. I was putting on shows put the twits on parents' party in the garden I remember thinking during itt this isn't very good. I' should have worked a bit harder on this you had an appreciative audience at least. Well they were attentive. God, they must have been indulgent. It wasn't good. Anyway, No, I had been putting on little shows and everything, but I was also very shy. Yeah, I thought so. So I think I Not a show off No I wasn't a show off. I I was definitely very shy and still am really. And so I needed to do my shows had to control the conditions in order to get let myself out and that's probably how you end up being Comedian, I mean, I think it's not uncommon But now I so now I do a show where I do all the voices and I have total control must have been, you know, in some way, an antidote of being the quietest person in the room. Were you quiet at school prettytty quiet. I had a little posse to the side of the main people who seemed like the stars at the year, you know confident ones. I was like slightly to the left of that And what was the What role did did the fame at homeome play in that? I mean, did people treat you different? I mean, it must be weird because your dad in particular 's one of those actors who everybody feels that they own a piece of, you know, he's one of those actors with an easy familiarity and a niceness in his sort of essence that makes people think they know him when they don't. It must be weird Really? What' you think so I don't know if I don't think so, but I I'm sort of surprised a bit, I suppose. And a lot of people don't know who he is young people. Sure I But everyone when you were at school would have known. I guess they do know guess they did know and there were some to that in some ways U Yeah, he also was away a lot, you know while I was growing up. so he wasn't like at pickup all the time. And he did drive for Rolls Royce and tripp me off sometimes. It' just way too close to my friends and I always found that very devastating embarrassing, embarrassing. Andop me at the corner. anythingthing that makes me stand No. No, my friend's dad was a Rolls Royce dealer. Right. And he was absolutely adamant that you can't drop me off outside to school any on Right because that justd you'd be pillaried ridiculous. It's ridiculous But home was I presume quite been a salon style. I mean there'd be lots of actors and directors coming and going or not. Yeah, there was ye there was. And my parents have both come from quite prim upbringings in Scotland and they went a long way against that and it was much more liberal and everything and there were lots of people around and yeah, it also looked like fun. The best fun, you know One night John Candy came over with I think he's maybe shared an agent with my dad. so my dad's agent and him were over for dinner. and The most riotous night I can remember of my life. And he was playing with napkins and going, Wh, Buddy raabbit and he gave me fifty dollars God knows why. he was just like On fire. The guy was on fire. funny. drack a whole bottle of whiskey and he was on fire and Lake That's intoxicating. And of course you want to join that world Of course you do. You want that fun all the time And u So yeah, it was just too inviting. and so I was sort of pretending a little bit that I might want to do something serious and I did a mini pupilege and law and but it was grim. I was like I want the fun stuff. So university was always just tading water It was treading water and keeping m and dad happy. It was Jadie Walter, my best friend went to Dama school. Right And I drove back from Norwich where I was at University most weekends and hung out with her friends. Right. That's where you kind of wanted to be. Yeah, but weren't. Yeah. Did Mum and dad put obstacles, more obstacles in? didid they discourage you from going down this road No they didn't and I think that they had to be a little bit careful of knocking my confidence if I was going to go into it. so they weren't They're encouraging But actually they did transmit whether or not they meant to. they transmitted some serious concern. Reluctance. a degree of reluct. deeep concern. Becauseuse they they kind of want you to be happy and they want you to be successful. And it's not a profession in which either thing is easily achievable regardless of who you are. No, and it's terribly dependent on beinging an actor Be ventrlicus, you do get a wonderful amount of under thisself Control and independence. Yes of what's happening on stage you do, but you can't control whether or not there's anybody in the audience that's just st. But if you make it funny, hopefully does get noticed because you start little open mic nights and it's not hard to get those. You know, it's easier to control I suppose you' schoolchool was a relatively straightforward affair. You clearly bright teachers liked you thought you could I wasn't It wasn't very straightforward. I was very unhappy when I first went to both the schools I went to at the beginning, it took a very long time. I think I shut down completely in primary school actually. Really? Yeahah, You had attachment issues with Seriously, yeah, I didn't know what had happened. Just minute you were taken out of this home environment, Yeah you suffered So much time with my momum. we were really best friends and then suddenly at And I looked at the other kids like, this is not this's almost a different species. I don't know what I'm doing with this Th Yeah I'm not one of them I felt like. I'm not I don't know how to do this And they're all getting on with it. and I don't know what this is And I think I was justort I would just sort of sit and wait for the day to be over Isn't that weird? So I don't know what that is now. Maybe I'd have something diagnosed now. I don't know. I don't think so I was just Really it was like everything I liked was gone. And I was in a place that was noisy and scary And u A L day. Did it slowly dissipate that feeling? Yeah, I managed to make a friend in in the Third year was there. Gosh. Yeah, and then it all was fine. And by the time you got to secondary school you knew who you were By the time I went to secondary school it was a setback. It was back to o Godd, I'm back to this. I'm back to the person who's just waiting for the day to end and then then I made a friend. You only need one, don't you? You need one and then you're okay. But if you don't have one, God it's a long day And the fact that you're not speaking makes it difficult. to start Did adults notice? U they did and they were sort of they lik me, they were encouraging me. I was, you know, I was like a good student. I wasn't misbehaving or anything I think they wanted to help me out my shell. Yeah, but that's all they thought it was. It sounds a bit deeper than just someone who was shy. It sounds like there's something a bit more profound going on. I don't know. it was a bit chronic actually looking back. But then the fact that it didn't last and then once you have a friend you build them then it was fine by the time I left both schools. ye. So I mean school and then university, I didn't know you'd done a min pupilege. My cursory research didn't stretch your flirtation with law. But what was the ambition then? were you thinking because you join the Royal Shakespeare Company, and so you thought you were going to be and you wanted to be a straight actor I really knew I didn't want to be a straight. So what are you doing then? what are you doing on this path? The Roy Shakespeare Company? Well, that was an audition. And I did Uh, three roles and I had been working with Ken Campbell, so I wore false teeth to one of them and you know, I had like funny approaches to the thing and it like how to game this audition and I managed to get in. But then as soon as I was in, it didn't really feel like I belong because I've been doing these sort of twenty four hour plays with Ken. Y. and then Yeah, I felt I felt like it was very, very straight So there's a subversion that you're already drawn from Somewhere that came inversive. I'm really glad I got that. I don't know where it came in. Yeah. And Kain Campbelllob was obviously the sort of deliverer of that experience. Yeah someone who you worked with and fell in love with Yeah.. I think he's no longer with it. but for people who are not aware of his He was never with us. He was somewhere else alwaysways, wasn't he? Yeah. I mean, he's an extraordinary figure. in so many ways. Even if your encounter with him was purely professional, it would have been deeply influential, just just what was it about him that was so out of the ordinary prorofessionally. theespianly It was really unpredictability that was so exciting because you couldn't possibly imagine what he was going to say. hisis brain just worked differently And then you'd watch him direct people who seemed like slightly a mediocre for example, comes on and he would find something for them to do where suddenly everybody's doubled over laughing and he's found the thing for them And it wasn't always nice the way he got there, sometimes very cruel but always Fascinating So I just thought that there's just so much going on there. I need to be up close to that. I need to get as much of that as possible because it's more interesting than anything I've seen When did you first come into his orbit U well whilst I was studying phhilosophy I' I was really excited by philosophy actually, I have to say. It was twenty first class degree. It was very interesting to me to think about things so profoundly that you kind of question everything And he seemed to be doing that on stage. so I went to see at the national and he was doing something It was full of conspiracy theories and stuff and He was talking about seeking and supposing rather than just believing any old thing and So I had earmarked him as a goalpost of some kind and then When I heard through a friend that he was doing this play that anyone could be in all you had to do was show up I went. Okay, which was very brave and that was very brave for the kid You know, it was just think we didn't speak to anybody Yeah. But you had sensed or seen something that you hadn't seen before and you wanted a piece of it Yeah, and it felt kind of desperate really because I wasn't getting into the profession normally Nothing was happening. But you didn't want to, even as you tried to. someomewhere deep inside, you didn't actually want to go down the path that your father had gone down as an actor. You wanted to do something different, but you also wanted to be in that world where John Candy could be sitting at your dinner table and you could do something that made you feel fantastic. Yeah, I think I might have felt like a fraud as an actor probablyrobably I still would maybe. I still would I donon't know why There's a moment I got act of friends Wh and you can tell the difference between actors acting and that curious species of actor who aren't acting. You know, Stannis Slavskin about it or whatever, but But you would always have felt you were an actor acting unless you were doing this this kind of work with Ken Campbell and Yeah, I remember thinking because there was a script in some of the stuff with Ken and I remember getting really playful with it one day and thinking, Oh, I'm actually quite good But then I don't know. it's not really welcome to be I don't know, that's not true. I felt shy as soon as I was in the straighter places in audition rooms Wow I don't know kiss of death to me, they were, really and And then that it's hard to leave your desperation outside and then that doesn't that doesn't improve your performance. Mainbe it does. I mean, Jim Kerry probably, you know, that was probably his H go. Yeah. So I don't know why, but the word lucky then is growing in my mind as I talk to you. It's lucky that you discovered what you discovered. Yeah. Really lucky that something would fit all of these slightly well very conflicting impulses and sensibilities and you would find something and develop something that that suits you so completely Yeah, I do actually really like the way things have turned out and I couldn't have found it without that luck. It's true I mean, I guess the fact that I took the chose to stick with the things that I went into, but it would be strange if I was just an actor. God, that would be strange. And I was actually talking with my partner last night about pilots and things that didn't get picked up And I was thinking, God, what if it had? Who would I be now It would be so weird. Yeah, the path not taken. It was a parallel life. A parallel universe where your some are completely different. Like a game I did a pilot for a game show. Did you? With my masks. And the pilot went, well, I thought I thought this is for sure, this is going to get commissioned. Yeah. And then I went into ITV and sat with the head on show He said so what are you what do you want to do like as if that pilot hadn't even been. Oh It didn't exist And it was this weird meeting where I was thinking, did you watch it? Yeah. Are you're not even going to tell me no, you're just going to say likeatter happened. So how are you Anyway, it was quite discompopulating at the time, but be a game show host. Not very subversive. It not my bad. Yeah, it would have been really weird. It's a danger sometimes, isn't there of rushing through whatever doors are open not stopping to wonder which doors you really, really want to get through. Yeah Yeah Particularly in showbiz. I have more failed pilots, I like to say than the Japanese Air Force in my on my CV. But again, most of them, if they'd happened, you'd think Christ what would be going on now doing something that I love doing. So I think that the ventrinoquism was Ken into it before because he did this thing in Kentucky and he came back with a puppet. Yeah. That just I mean it's a seminal moment in the origin story this, isn't it? I mean, I think that's just his Cranking mind And it's just him being deliberately Tuesome and unpredictable. What's the n thing? Talking about ventrlatism like it's the highest art. Because at the time it was in the minds of people, it's Nooky Bear and Orville. Yeah really. Yeah. it's tough stuff. Yeah. And to say we're bringing it back. it's the best art form. It's the most powerful. And they did a thing at the national the history of comedy partart one ventroloquism. I mean, as if it holds any place on the map And if you said you were just doing this to be, you know perverse He would absolutely fight you. Are you saying, you know, you'd be in trouble for doubting him because then he would suddenly stand firmly on the ground of that underdog or whatever and fight to the death for it I don't know. he was a guy who did things fully and He really didn't like half ask attems at anything But you still don't know whether he was entirely serious when he embaced ventrriloquis. He became entirely serious, especially when challenged. but the whole thing might have started off as a whim, a whimsical Funny idea. Funny idea. Yeah. Funny idea, but you would die for those. Yeah. Yeah Yeahep, there's a lovely clip of him saying I think anything that isn't funny is a travesty of life. He says it with such deathly Oh Venom. Yeah, venom. So what happened? I mean, did I got that right? He came back from Kentucky with a puppet when did you first? When did you first insert your hand into a puppet? How did that come about Well, I did a few times in groups with him. He was holding sort of workshops And I had a troubled relationship with him because I couldn't do everything he wanted because it was too extreme And I took arate a bit and that made him angry and it it was a bit tough. So But I didn't want to ever have an enemy in him, you know, so I kept in touch a bit and I went to these were ventricous Wshops. I thought they were really stupid and I didn't like it And then so but then I went to the Royal Shakespeare Company and I was doing a very normal job and I didn't have big parts, I had small parts and I really kind of missed them. and I thought, however weird it is, I would rather that and at the time, so I sort of opened the door to him again Yeah. And then He asks me I mean it's a long story. full story is that he He said, whilst you' doing this cutting your teeth in the acting world. I would like to write a book about acting. I always have And if you could send me questionsions about acting that will inspire chapters And so and he provided me with postcards with his address on them and I had an unsuccessful voice coaching lesson with Cis Berry, who's very louded voice coach who said You know, there are voices some I can listen to and the others I just shut off. and you've got to make yours one I can listen to Okay quite tough. So I quoted that on this postcard and said what do I do and this book that he was Horting white suddenly didn't exist anymore. He had the invitation to make me a ventriloquist and he went at it wholeheartedly And at the stage door at the Swan Theatre, there's suddenly the big fluffy dog and a teach yourself ventriloquism kit which he bought in Kentucky, which was thirty booklets of how to learn ventriloquism. and it came with a sort of a lolly stick to hold your tongue down and a little mirror I mean And he said this is this is the answer to your question. You will become a vocal acrobat. There will be nothing that you can do. It's just you'll be doing all the things she can't teach you and you will know everything about the voice and this is what you have to do And well am it's actually amazing And he was always amazing. That was just the kind of thing he did. He incredible. Bully. Yeah And so Then I did remember my heart sinking. Y. I can imagine thinking, Oh God, I wish I hadn't asked, What about your book? Can't you just tell me something warm up?. And then And this is okay, Obviously this dog has cost you money and now I'm involved in this awful thing. And I had to take a video of myself trying Which I was sort of hoping would put him off. Yeah. But the videos that I made with this puppet and some other puppets which I had around the house, one of which was monkey. Right which belonged to an actor friend. Um they were quite good I should Ely promise in these videos. And so it just like yeah, it didn't stop. It's abbsolutely extraordinary isn't it? Yeah, it's funny. tr What was the before we s devel it back the evolution of the act further. What was his I mean, the possibility that it was all a wizard whze aside Is it the fact that it allows an actor when he was doing workshops to shed inhibitions in a way that be harder to do In other circum, what is the role that the Ventorilla uizin plays in the development of the actor? Or is that even a stupid question? I don't think I cared about the acting part much. I think He liked to do stuff that no one else was doing. He was a truffle pig for lost art forms and eccentric and bold ideas. And so he was just giving himself a quest to bring Lost arrt form back And I mean much like he wanted to give the world a language and studied pigeon for ages and made us all translate it into translate Macabbeth into pigeon and stuff like that, you would do things like that and So ventral equism was just like yeah, the thing of the time. And he did it a bit himself as well You know it was terrible, you were his ve Yeah. You were the vessel through which he was was the puppet. Yeah Oh gosh. Probably. Yeah. in some ways. U but I think it does help acting actually. and he used to say in the show he used to do an impression of all the great actors Humphrey Berger, a man of great stature and very little lip movement. you know, if you watch if you keep your face still, you have more power anyway, you know, no movement at all of the lips and you're really talking I not But yeah, it was subversed It is a subversive art form. it turns out. it isn't just a silly naughty jokes, end of the peer stuff. It's very subversive Did you feel that early doors? I mean, because you move from ridiculousness to fascination, I suspect quite quickly. Yeah. Yeah, and then Back in the day, there was no internet, there was nothing. you couldn't go on YouTube and watch weird things.. And Ken had a library full of weird things and he had videos of these old ventriloquist that you just could not see anywhere and like, um Terry Rogers was one of them And she had a puppet Terry had been born a man, I think, and had undergone the first sex exchange on the NHS apparently.. and Terry had a male puppet that had incredibly male voice and she was just like parls around her neck and like butter wouldn't melt And there was a very old Athena documentary that Ken had somehow got a video of And she's putting her puppet away in the box and he's saying you'll never get away with this, you'll never get And it was like so exciting. It was really ghostbumpy. And it was like, Oh, there is something going on here here There's something really interesting going on here. And for the first time in your life, you thought I can do I can actually do this. I can do this real. I can be I can authentically do this. I won't be an actor acting or I will be me and I will be good. Finally, I've found something where I'm able to find things to say. becausecause I don't have to just be me saying all these things, I can have something demands them. I can have something ask me questions and demand my opinion. So I don't I'm not arrogantly just going and spouting. and also I have something to fight against, you know, So it was just like, oh, I could write actually with this pen I' I could Oh it was really a nice unlocking moment That's a goodd, isn't it unlocking? Be becausecause it's something that's been there all along now got out And I didn't know it was there all along either until I started to have a puppet and I started to think, Oh he could say this and then I could say this. And yeah You've described it as being like a secret passage, I think. Right becausecause it's sort of a combination of armour and liberation. It's a freeing, it's a process of freeing. It was ye. ye, I'm very grateful for it. And then how quickly did Did things develop? I mean, when did you first do it in front of an audience Um Well I mean, it was baby steps initially because I thought, okay, I'm good at ventriloism I need I need somebody to write me something. Right And which Ken did He wrote me a play and u He wrote me it like a half hour play about an actress becoming a ventriloquist. Ken was in the play. He was the director off stage in the toilet throughout. So I go around to his house And I'm like, Ken, And he's like, Ohh in the lab. And So I have a conversation with him off stage and then he goes, Go get, you know, open that box or whatever. and I saw Oh yeah, that was it. I said, I've got an audition and I need to take a puppet. He's like, Well, go and get that one. And so then this sort of I unfold all these boxes and talk to all these puppets and by the end I decide not to go to the audition because I'm not an actress, I'm a venture Gsh. that was the plan. Where did you put that on? I did that at the Gate theatre and that felt seeminal moment. big moment. Yeah. My mum cried. Because you were not an actress, you were adventure. My mom cried because she thought she's going to be okay. Oh wow, because she'd seen you do something special on stage. a lovely thing that must have been. Yeah. And but again, you know, it's However good you are at it, it's quite an odd sell, isn't it? to then So I don't know what you do. put your CV through letter book. I mean, you develop another show and you take it. I made videos. Yes. I started to make videos. And I gave them to people I mean, they must have thought I was mad. I gave on to Paul Andrew Williams, who's the director now, because I knew him as as a mate I gave one to I've forgot his name right now Bhill Bailey. Yes. Oh T Maran You know, I It's so embarrassing. why is that embarrassing? Well, these videos are just like Me talking to a monkey in my flat Oh it's madness. but it's not madness because they were obviously You were obviously very good. but it is I mean it's not the act of a shy young woman, is it? Is this Or I suppose that is that bit is, but handing them a video and then running away. It is and it isn't. I mean the shy part is watch this because I can be good if no one's looking. You know, I'm not going to dazzle you in person. so watch my video please. And did they lead anywhere? Did the videos didid anything sprout I'm not sure, no, not Well, maybe I don't know, Ken loved the videos I made. I mean, I made him lots and he used to get all his friends around and watch them together, you know, it was yeah So what's next? Edinburgh? The Fingch is where that's the next big breakthrough, the next big moment. Yeah, next big moment was I'm in Edinburgh doing that play that Ken wrote and I go on Nicholas Parsons' show that he does where he he would he would So spe of friend kind of thing. Yeah. and And I took the monkey on with me. And so then the monkey was the smallest puppet in that play that I'd done with Ken and In an interview situation, there was no fourth wall, then monkeys started getting lots of laughs from the audience and then I thought, okay, this is definitely something to do without a fourth wall. This is a stand upp. So again, it was quite coincidental. It was quite lucky that you were in that sp at that time with that reaction. Yeah, I guess so yeah, it was another accident. Is that Itccurs to that what you're doing at Edinburgh this year is a bit like what Nichols Parsons was doing back then. Yeah, yeah. I feel like yeah, E Eb veterans. So your N Nina's Comte Cabaret will include O acts coming to spend time with you and and is it monkey just monkey who No I'll be doing my mask stuff them with the audience as well. To be really honest? There's sometimes I don't know yet what you're going to be doing. Well sometimes there's a little bit in my show, which' a bit boring where I try to have a rest Come on It's very true, you know. It feels a terrible thing to admit. It's very ter. Sometimes there's a bit like where I'll hide behind a chair and Mkey will meet people on his own for a bit. I see. o. And it's like just one less thing to think about because it's so plate spinning what I do that I do fatigue. And I thought, well, why don't yeah someone else great to do something great for ten minutes during that bit instead of doing your boring bit Okay That's what they So that's what hopefully is going to happen. Yeah. But again, as with almost everything you well not actually, but as with an awful lot of what you do, it's in the lap of the gods much of it Yes, I mean, it'll be like one of my shows. It'll be like all the fun bits of my shows plus two guests. What then is the point at which you think I'm sort of in the way that a parent would, this is why your mom cried because she thought you were going to be okay When did you think you were okay. When did you think, Oh gosh, this is it now. I'm up and running. I'm off and running. It was at the Banana cabaret at the Bedford in Ballham. Yeah There was a New act night which ran like a competition And it was really, really scary. I mean, I was really, really shaking. I had the monkey in my bag and I had a bat of few minutes of material where the monkey was going to hump a pint glass And I was on with lots of stand ups and it was very scary taking the monkey out of the bag because The audience really were worried. Yeah. And then I won it. I won the night and I got twenty five quid or something. but More than that, I just got a direction. How much is it might this. I was like this way that works. This is who I am U And so you do various shows the I mean your Not complacent, are you? You're never thinking like, that's it now. because I suppose ventrilicus from my childhood We're doing the same act for thirty or forty years with the same puppet and not really extending themselves at all, but probably because of that background in sububversive and the influence of Ken Campbell. you're constantly trying to find new frontiers, which takes you both into the world of filmmaking and into the world of putting masks on members of the audience. Which way r should we talk about those? Let's talk first about the film, which people can watch now on Pime videoide, but which Apart from the fact that it features a suicidal radio host, which is a bit close to home it would be impossible for me to explain to people what the film is about in a way that make jewels. I mean, it's about what? It's it's I mean, it's an when did that idea occur? loveve affair. It's a road trip between a man and woman who doesn't want to come out of a monkey suit. Yeah. c in New Mexico. But he's going to dig up his dead dad to get the w done. I mean I mean it is every line of this is Extraordinary. Yeah, it's very unlike any other film I've seen, I think. It's. I mean, I guess there's something notes of I don't know other road trip movies, but The Well there was another signpost really. I met Cheno Allen and who plays the madi. Yeah And I loved his work so much immediately and he was so natural and he was doing crazy improv stuff, but he was selling it such like such dignity was such was so well played And I thought this is very different from the kind of improv games that you see where people this guy's a real guy and he's and I just really wanted to work with him. so And then monkey I was I had made my monkey puppet into a full sized guy. And that's where I was with my act at the time. I was thinking, Monkey is the fun one Nina now feels like a bit of a chaperone And what about if I just was monkey And this was having had a small part in in a Starars movie solo. which I was cut from in the end anyway, but for the day that I was on set, I was watching these huge incredible creatures, Jubbeacco like creatures walking around and thinking, I want that I want that. I want a monkey to be able to be that And I just gotot the phone numbers of all the creature department and asked them to make me a big monkey and then did stand up as him soo theatre without any script I just crowd work as Mkey. So that was another big day. and Chanot I had invited him to see that. and then we started doing an act called Monkey and Roy. and that was the basis of the film and it was two people that were sort of trying to help people with their problems. let's get personal and we would help the audience with their problems, Mkey and Roy So for then from that We I thought I was probably slightly falling in love with him then already, but I was thinking this is very much like a love story because I am actually kind of tryrying to make you love me from inside this ridiculous. Sit of a monkey U And I can really see how this could be someone's life, you know that they can only be themselves under these particular conditions. and then be scared to come out in case it's a disappointment. When did you think it's a film I always have ideas on planes and I was sitting buckled up before take offff and thought This is the last story. this is film and I remember text scam. Should we try and make a film? you know, and and just before take off. Yeahah, I'd love that. Yeah, okay. we'll do it. you know Well, I mean, that's that's the easy bit Yeah. I mean, how because for someone who's most alive when you're performing How hard was the sort of schep of getting things done and raising money and doing all of that? That's a horrible schleep. Yes. It's a really horrible schep. writing here and there to get money from here and there. and not from anybody who's goinging to say this is very good, but can Kira Knightley be in the monkey, you know? So you have to do it low budget if you want to do it your own way. And you did. and you got it made. and it's done really well. I mean, it's won awards, it's had extraordinary reviews, but films are weird in this day and in the day of streaming because it It's gone up on Prime relatively recently on Prime videoide and it should and could reach an entirely new audience. It could assume a new life, a new act It really depends on whether it's showing on the page when people open prime. inc And it's called sunlight. should probably be called Monkey and Roy, but it's called sunlight. and so that's the challenge. but I've noticed I got fed up. you know, we haven't got the budget to be on the side of but bosses or any of that. And it's hard to muscle in amongst all the big films that are supported by studios. and I made a video recently going See you watch my fucking film here But which tralled quite far. The clip went semi viral yeah, like and since then people have been watching it and I'm getting Every day I'm getting messages saying affected people profoundly and I'm really glad because it isn't like normal films and it does speak to people. so I'm very glad that it's getting some traction now. Well hopefully we'll get it a bit more. It's on prime video in the UK as we speak, but it may not be on the page that loads on the screen as soon as. then there's sort second the third or fourth spinning plate, the idea to stick masks on audience members. which I mean Well, no hang on I can't take credit for that. Those masks existed. Right, okay. Yeah I saw a vantilllaquist called Ron Lucas early early d with Ken Campbell in his kitchen showing me getting an old VHS out this guy, look at this guy And It was brilliant. I mean, I think Ronald Reagan was in the audience It was back in the eighties U He got someone up And he made them sing when you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. And he told him how to sit, you know, he got him down on one knee, He made him put his arms out and he made him sing this with like Joy song. and it was really a knockout. That was the first time I saw one of those masks But then apparently There's a bit confiration about who invented them because somebody invented a paper one before him and who knows who invented the first? That's not your battle is it? Because you're claiming that you did. No, I'm not cla. So what made you think, Oh, I'll have a bit of that because everything else was going so well. youd established Gran and you'd established Monkey and other characters and so now you just thought were you a little bit B Mbe, maybe yeah. actually build a who was a radio A writer and a producer and so on. Bill Dare got a hold of me. So he actually really helped me too. He said you should be improvising more You should be doing unscripted stuff I don't know why I you am not. That was quite tightly scripted andign And so he sort of forced me off script a bit and it was with him Yeah It was with him that I decided, okay, maybe I'll do a bit with an audience member. And that involves you commissioned the master yourself and then I bought one off the internet. Right. The internet Yeah, it would have been. And it was a very basic one. It was just like a chin with the string on it pulled down down down. And yeah that was the first one. And then the first time as you've told us that you tried it, the first few times that you tried it, you had a stooge. A had a stooge. and I was encouraged by Bill to have a stooge. He was like, Well a lot of people have stooges. That's what you do you, you know, you don't have to be nervous then it's all done, you Yes. You'd still be improvising a bit, would you with a stooge or was it had it become more or less scriptive? I was trying to be a bit looser, yeah in that show generally speaking. Okay a lot looser. And then the first time you stuck a mask on a random Audience member. Yes. The first time it said my stch was aren't available And I thought in that bit of the show, I'll just do it with somebody from the front row And it was much more funny. So it was a part of the show. It wasn't as if everything hinged on that. you would still do your other I was doing other bits, Granny and the monkey. Okay. And then there was the mask bit and I thought, well, I'll risk it with somebody. And it worked really, really well. It worked really well Why? It was very alive. It was bristling with like unknown and it felt far more high stakes and the audience tell it was reallyally no one knew what was going to happen. Yeah That's what I meant by jeopardy. It's probably not quite the right word, but there's a tension, delightful tension watching. Yeah. What the fuck which you have as well, but times a million on stage. Well now it feels quite small actually. I look at that and think, well why is there so much, you know tension Yeah. It's not that big of a deal to get someone up and do that It felt big to me. Maybe that Ie brought the tention I don't I think it's anxiety dream for a lot of people to be on. Some people sit there begging not to be noticed. Yeah It's a sort of pantomime and stuff. like some people the idea of hell would be to be dragged up on it might included, Well that's the ironic thing, isn't it in a way againgain, there are several moments now. I haven't kept count of them, but these extraordinary aligning planet moments in your life, meeting Ken Campbell, him deciding that ventilicquuism was the thing, you being in the right place at the right time, That thing not happening. not being a quiz show host finding monkey, finding a voice, all of these things and now There's this, which has sort of propelled you into a new space, a slightly bigger space than you were in before, because when you have two or four, when you have more than one person interacting with you and with each other and you're doing all of their. voices and watching all of them react. I mean that you talked about planing planning space before. thats that's absolutely bonkers. Yes, it's very exciting. I really love it. So the first time you did it more than one L time I did one I don't really remember. Okay. Yeah, I don't think that was a like old moment. It was it was not so different from doing one. Okay, but then doing a lot and then doing Yeah gettingting like whole families up It's really a joy. It's really nice. I have learnt to get people up that know each other because they crack each other up. Yes If you have lots of individuals, you don't quite get that element and the ones that really sing, I think is and you can see the love between the people on stage like sisters it's so sweet That's really sweet. they make each other laugh I've always been interested in the We talk about stuff being unscripted And yet you think deeply about what you do and about performance in general, What's work? when you're putting something together You don't just turn up with the mean do you see what I mean? What are you What do you do when you're not on stage that makes what you do on stage work? I don't think anything really Re No, just not panic, trust, you know, the old clown course and stuff like that. just not to be frightened and be frightened, try not to lose faith in people, you know, all that sort of thing U Do you still get frightened I do. I'm very nervous before I go I's not very nervous maybe, but Yeah, I still feel I feel frightened before I go on stage Yeah in a good way though, not not in a kind of throwing up in the looue way Yeah, and it's different because it's not like this is going to be awful. I know it'll be okay. and I know that just fear is that what happens before I have a show and I can't get away from that And mean this is an odd question, but how much of it is on because it's not all on you. There'll be good nights and bad nights, right? And I mean, all comedians work with energy and work with a room and work with the audience, but you How much is on you? I mean, do you sometimes think God I was so blessed tonight that they were in the audience and they come up onto the stage. Or is it more the case that if it's not working, you're not having a good night How much How much do they bring to this stage? The thing is it always works to an extent. because There's a lot of funny ingredients So even if somebody is Someimes have to be really unpleasant for it not to work. okay U someomebody who doesn't offer much physically can still work really well Right. So someone would have to be sort of actively malevolent Someone would have to be ye, like somebody pulled a but punch like move as if his wife light I'm gonna later and the audience just suddenly turned off And then it just all went, okay, that's not funny. And I don't know how to make that better and make him say that was stupid. I apologize, but you know, it's just like, o, everyone's just now worried for these guys. Jesus. Yeah. which brings us back to that tension and that audience not knowing what on earth is likely to happen next. Of course you do. You know in the moment that it's going brilliantly or not so brilliant I find that I do a sort of casting thing where I'm talking with the monkey to people and get you go for liability and capability but not eccentristic any sort of stage hungry kind of thing Of. J go for someone that you think, well, they're nice and you know, you sit next to them on a bus That'll be all right. And these days everybody knows what they're signing up for pretty mark. I think so. W wouldouldn't have been the case at the outset, would it? No, it wasn't the case at the outset.. Oh God, I really sometimes think, o God it's so high risk. What I do If someone was unhappy about something they made me say and said she took my voice, she made me do this, you know, some horrible story. That would be awful. So I really try to be careful when I get people up that they're willing, you know? Yes, of course So how do you pick projects now then? Be I mean the film must have taken a huge chunk out of your life and And so did lockdown, of course, for all performers. It was a really difficult period this combination of wantanting to push the envelope, wanting to explore what you're doing, moving from having a puppet to being in the suit yourself. And you mentioned being on flights. does it feel like when you start thinking, oh, yes I think that might be what happens next Oh I've got it now. H you for animation Oh And I learnnt I'm learning Tune boom with an online tutor and it's like sort quid a lesson or something You can watch lots of tutorials online to learn Tuneboom It's nice when you have problems to have someone there who can tell you what you've done wrong And I have that I have it now with that. Because it's also a bit like puppeteering. Right. Is Tomboom just a word for a certain type of animation? It's a software for animation. Okay, gotot you. And so you're drawing lots of little component parts of a body with pivot points to help it move and everything and you can draw a funny little face and then you can record your voice and you've learn animate the math and suddenly got something. it's quite Return And it's really, really delightful fun So it's a new software which is exciting to learn. I like learning things like that. I like learning editing software and I edited a lot of my film, along with the editor Rasmia, but I did a lot of the hands on. Directing it, we should say as well. the films. they didn't mention that before And I like doing the thing I like learning a new thing and I like doing a new thing. So animation is what I'm excited about at the moment. and I don't know what I'll make yet. you're going make something. No and I are working on something and it's very quick just you start talking in a funny voice and you say something funny by accident. we record it and go, well, that can go in, you know. A And I love that we don't have to go begging cap in hand to anyone for that you know make it. If we could make it if we know how to do it So that's the kind of stuff that gets me excited. What do all the things that get you excited have in common? U That's a good question. I don't know if I can answer it immediately. I like it to be doable. I like it to be fun. I like it to be unexpected please I don't know. it's juicy in some way, kindind of fun. Juicy is a good word. Yeah, sort of juicy, but it' sort of I don't know under the It'' going in little bit secret agentcy about it, you know, when you can go in something in a different and not something that lots of other not just becoming the latest person to do something. Yeah, but lots of other people I sense that regardless of whether you were good or bad at that, it wouldn't have the same sense of fulfillment for you as having a slightly pioneer Yeah, that's a nice wor. I'll take that Would it nice to be pioneer. I would like to I've always thought I would like to do a bit of each thing We all that than Well, I mean, I've my genre in a way, my stage stuff I think, sorry hit Mike My stage stuff I think I'll always do. It's nice to depend to do one of each day. I would like to write a play, you know, not to be in it, but I' love to write a good play. But that's very hard. I think I have to be older and wiser still. And are these aren't like tick box ambitions. These are actually your sort of artistic. growth That's something I would like to do. think soave you ever had haveave you ever had tickbox ambitions? Have you ever thought I want to win a what's it or I want to do a thingy or I want to play on that stage. have you had like status based achievements on your Roadmap of Not really no. I don't think so. No, not really. It's not something that I want my own TV show funnily enough I don't know why I don't. makes me so cross TV. Yes, I can see why. But it's not yeah, that's not one that's really So so I mean, it's great, isn't it to use the word luck to describe the consequences of very hard work. But you do at this point You do feel pretty lucky you're getting to make stuff you want to make. do stuff you want to do, you've achieved success in a field that you more or less invented and You're still hungry for new experiences. I am, ye. I like it's a nice It's not like a mainstream life, but it suits me very well. I think you just always got to keep your eye out for the signposts, you know And Long May continue. You've made a sort of mockery of my closing questions about future plans and ambitions and things like that because you've answered them already, which is nice. The Edinburgh thing kicks off on the seventeenth of August runs to the twenty fourth, people who are up there enjoy that. The film is available now sunlight on Prime Vide, Amazon Prime videoideo. Is there another tour in the diary yet I think so, but I also am doing a monthly show at Leicester Square Theatre, which is Nina Conti and Friends. It's a little bit like the one I'm doing in Edinburgh Oh That seems like a nice sort of residency Maina Conti, thank you Thank you This has been a Global Pler original production