Elon Musk and Retirement Savings

Is a dream retirement even possible anymore? Will social seecurity even be a thing in twenty years? Will we ever get a sequel to Youon't Mess with the Zohan? people Those are the questions I'm going to answer slash debate today with Arin Talks money, except for the Zohan one. We'll sidebar that. She's a retirement and financial planning expert and the host of a very popular YouTube channel. And today she's joining me for a round of everyone's favorite game, agree to Disagree. Stop ree with me. But before we get started, one thing we can all agree on is our appreciation for Delete Me for sponsoring this channel. You're real one to leave me Eron, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me We're very excited to have you because there's some big news out there. America is apparently going through a lot. J just just one of those sles. There is a retirement crisis Or so I've heard. Okay. And so I thought we'd talk about it today with a game of agree to disagree. Okay So here's how works. I'm going to read a headline followed by a statement about said headline to give it some context Be headlines aren't always the truth. Oh, it's the whole story. So if we agree with that headline and statement, we'll give it a thumbs up with our little paddles over here. And if we disagree, we'll give it a thumbs down Are you excited? So excited. Headline number one, grab your paddles, please Social Security Trust fund is now projected to run out in twenty thirty two Now this headline feels a little bit misleadated because runout feels like there is no money. Everyone's getting zero dollars starting in twenty thirty two. But once the trust fund is used up, social seecurity benefits will be lowered by a little over twenty percent So that's the real statement. So do you believe That is true. Should people treat social security as a bonus, not part of their retirement plan because of this trust fund being depleted. Agree or disagree She's down the middle already. She is Switzerland. so sorry. Age dependent. So yes, the trust fund, that's a factual statement, is projected to be depleted Current workers are still going to pay into it, so the benefits would still pay out at a lesser rate If Congress does nothing, I do think they will do something. And I also think age matters because if somebody's on the brink of collecting, if their're late fifties, if they are you know, maybe late forties or early fifties. So by the time we get to that point, they're claiming I don't think their benefits are going to be affect I do think for our generationies early forties. Yeah, I think plan as if things are going to change. They have changed in the past. they've changed full retirement age. They've changed benefit payouts. So I think we need to plan as if it's a bonus when we're younger. As you get closer, you can plan as if it's going to be there So I'm curious as to what Congress could do. Like if the trust fund is used up, because essentially, social seecurity is the younger guy gives a dollar to the older guy. And then when I become the older guy, I look to the next younger guy to give me the dollar. Y. That's essentially how the whole thing works. Yeah. So what is Congress going to do when the trust funds used up? Are they going to make me give two dollars to the old guy I mean, right now we have a wage capap that it's usually up to one hundred eighty seven thousand or so that we pay into Social Security. That's not the exact figure, so don't quote me on it. But that gets indexed for inflation. We could raise the wage capap. We could adjust how benefits are paid out. There's something called that donllor comes out of taxes to fund the trust fund. Yes. So they have multiple levers they could pull on As the system currently stands without change It's scheduled for depletion. Perfect We got there. Let's see if I can get her to give me full paddle on this next one. Headline number two, The four percent rule is dead. the new bucket strategy millions are using to make savings last longer Here's the subtext You recently reacted to me and Caleb Hammer going at it. G at it overver withdrawal rates. Yes. A very hypothetical scenario that affects very few actual real people. Yes. So I'm now going to react to you reacting to me. What's behind this headline? Be people are saying the four percent rule could cause you to run out of money in retirement, which feels crazy. you know, like, do you think here's the agree or disagree? I' like, I don't know what I'm agreeing or Heresree disagree. A four percent withdraw rate is too risky No, it's not. Suzy Orman disagrees. I know she does. I man, who am I to go against Susie Orman? I'm just saying she said the four percent rule is, quote dangerous and should be lowered to three percent to lower the risk of running out of money in retirement. So can you for our listening audience explain the four percent rule? So four percent rule is when you retire the age at which you retire, you look at your portfolio, whatever its value is, you can take four percent of that and you're kind of setting your baseline at that point. And then every year going forward, you would adjust for inflation. So you're really only taking four percent that first year And this was established by a gentleman named Bill Benin. and he looked at all rolling thirty year periods in our markets's history. And if you followed that, it would have never run out of money backward looking. If you use Monte Carlo simulations, which are forward looking and looking at situations we've never encountered, that's where we run into rates that might be in that three percent range. So it's what kind of data do you want to look at? Are you backward looking, forward looking Well, and it's you know affecting the principal amount that you started with. And so if you're okay depleting it, you know, down to one hundred thousand or two hundred thousand or three hundred thousand, you could withdraw more in some situations. And again, if you follow the Ramsay plan, you go into retirement with no debt, a large nest egg, and you have a paid off house. Yeah. So your expenses are pretty flexible Yeah, and the four percent rule itself is inflexible. and it doesn't follow the real world. Like no retireree goes into retirement like, I'm going to spend this amount every single rule. Yes. My portfolio is going down, everything's looking bad. I'm still going to take the same exact amount. I'm not going to adjust my spending. No one does that Which is my argument with the, you the seven or eight percent or whatever. It's like, could you? Yeah, if you're willing to not do eight percent in a down market for three years And so if the market's up and you're willing to flex your spending and trim your expenses down or live off of your bonds or savings for a little willing to have a flexible withdrawal? Absolutely. There can be years where you take that amount if the market's on your side Can I tell you the truth worstase scenario, My goal Yeah is to have so much money in retirement that I don't even care what the percent is because it's probably going to be like onene percent. Yeah. That should be aver is a patter goal. takes one and a half to two and a half percent average retire It's realistic. and then they generally will end up with way more money. I saw CFP Michael Kitssy's. he did a great article on this and he basically said less than ten percent of the time You might run out of money. But there's the same exact chance that you'll have four X your principal amount. So if you started with two million, you could likely end up with eight million. Yes When you die. Yes. So it's like, well, that wasn't the goal either. No. T to die with way more money. Yeah, I always phrase that is trying to die as the richest man in the graveyard. We don't want That's good. I like that 'ause your kids will have no problems. I just hope I'm not buried near Dave ' I will lose that game. You know what I mean? Dave's got his own plot, don't worry That's not gonna allow you next to him. There's He probably has his own like graveyard that I'm not invited to. He P has a building I would If I was Dave, I would charge. Yeah. If you want to be near me, you got a head att. I would charge big money to be near Dave's plot. justust saying. Moving on, you need two million dollars to retire and almost no one is close, Black Rock CEO warns, a problem that GenX will make harder and nastier. First of all, not a greatly not the best worded headline It doesn't roll off the tongue. Journalism has gone down hereill. But here's the context. Black Rock surveyed a thousand registered voters. Why voters? I don't know why they had to be voters. I don't know if they were investors. Maybe that's what it is. They asked how much they would need to retire comfortably. The average response was two point one million. So agree or disagree. peopleeople need two million dollars to retire Do you think they need more or less? depends on their lifestyle. Like what if we get a military retiree and we've got a pension and we've got two social seecurity checks might need a hundred thousand dollars. I mean, and I'm not saying that everyone needs one hundred thousand dollars going into retirement But I'm just saying it depends. Someone might have a really high income floor that's coming from these reliable sources. if you have a pension, annuity and social seecurity. Someone might not have very much of those and you're going to need a more robust portfolio, especially if you want to travel and you've got big expenses. depends. Yeah. I mean, I think two million is a nice it's a nice number For most situations in lifestyle. Nicer. Yeah. You're like, that's a great number. Most people would love to have that. Yeah. And the truth is many people retire with far less and still have a dignified retirement and a good life.ike ninety five percent. And some people know that's not enough for me in my life. I'm like, okay, then save more. Work hard, save more love it So do you think the less people have saved, the more they think they need or do you think As they actually build some wealth, the goalpost changes I think it's probably it multifold here. I think yes, when you have, say one hundred thousand dollars saved, you're like, oh gosh, I'm going to have to fund thirty years hundred thousand dollars is not enough to cut it. But but I also think we look at it through the lens of, I'm earning an income today. I get this paycheck, and that paycheck's one day going go away. And we have no concept of what retirement is going to look like when we're thirty, when we're forty. And so we kind of grasp that a big number because it feels good because I think I'd r overhoot than undhoot. Absolutely. I don't wantan to run out of money. Inflation iss going to be health carere, your lifestyle, your own health All of that. Well, Larry Fink said this, four hundred one K's have failed as a mass retirement solution because they place the onus of financial planning on the individual rather than an employer or institution. So there's a bonus agreeer disagree here Do you agree with that that the onus of financial planning should be on the employer or institution? I mean That feels crazy The idea is that it used to be when we had Tensions being more popular But I do think our own financial independence is on our shoulders. and I don't think four hundred and one K's have failed in the sense that they've made more millionaires than any other account out there. Take that, Larry Look, I never met a fink and I hope they got never do. Im sure he's shakaking in his boots. But they failed because no the only way they have failed is that nobody's investing money into it. Largely when four hundred one Ks are there, when people are opted in and they save, they go into retirement with investments. four hundred one Ks have won It's when we don't have access to an employer sponsored plan that we see that that is the segment of the population that doesn't have retirement. Be they't they go, I don't an option. And we go, Well, have you heard about an IRA? And usually they haven't Or if you're self employed, like a solo four one K, something like that. So that is That's good I' glad we both disagree with Larry on that one. I just thought that was a crazy quote to put out there All right, headline number four, the S and P five hundreds golden decade of double digit returns is over. Goldman says. So Goldman Sachs, this is not a person. This is the entity that is Goldman Sachs forecast that the S and P five hundred would see annualized returns of three percent overver the next ten years, down from the thirteen percent annualized figure from the prior decade That's quite the dooming gloom Headlinine. Agrereeer disagree the S and P five hundred won't have double digit returns over the next decade in the prediction game. I don't agree with three percent. S here Here's the funny thing, I feel like they put these headlines out every year. Yes. And then the market's up twenty two percent, seventeen percent. You're like. They said this in the nineties when things were going crazy. And I mean, here we are thirty years later. But if you look at Vanguard, if you look at Fidelity, when they're making their projections, they're saying the same thing. And why is that? Because it's better to say, hey, expect this than we actually hit this Everyone's happy with their fidelity in Vanguard accounts. If you're told you're gonna get ten percent and then you get eight, you're very angry. Well, I know't are they fearmongering to get people to invest more knowing the returns could be lower? That's another thought I they'' current investors. and I think they're setting the bar real low And I think like Vanguard does the same thing. So if I'm a business and I have shareholders, I go, Hey guys, it's going to be a pretty rough year. We're only going to see three percent growth. And you guys all' surpass that and then you get bonuses on top of that. You're like. So now we h ten percent growth and the shareholders are so happy. Yes. And they're just throwing money at me in bonuses. Gosh, I should work for Golden Sachs. I would crush it Well, the other piece of this Do you think that we should be looking at past performance and historical data to project the future I don't think history repeats itself, but I like that phrase of it does rhyme. History is kind of similar, but we get new events Like we're going to have inflationary periods. We're going to have times of war. We're going to have times where the market does not do well, the times where it does do well. It's not going to look exactly like it did in the past. It's a rhyme. it's not the same word, but it's a similar word that sounds o. So I think we can look at the past as a guide and that guide will tell us that there will be rough times. There will be booms and busts and inflation and stagflation and all of these things We can expect them going forward. Now what order they'll happen in the magnitude, I don't know, and when it will happen, I don't know Yeah, I well, you know, I always say when I use my investment calculator to show people what it could be, I use ten percent as a rough number. Now I know it could be a little less, it could be more. I mean, we've seen ten to twelve, if you look at the past, I don't know, seventy, eighty years. That's before inflation. So adjusted for inflation, it's probably closer to, you know, eight to eleven, seven to ten somewhere in there. But I still think ten is not a crazy number to throw out there And regardless of inflation, two million's two million. What can it buy you? That's up to you and the Lord. But, you know, I still think it's not crazy, but then people go This guy's insane. We're never going to see that again or I'm not getting that in my account. So what do you say to those people Save more more. Yeah. you think you're only going get seven percent lookooks like you gott to save more. Yeah. back on your expenses. I mean, it's kind of like when you hear people say, Oh, a million dollars isn't anything nowadays, I'm like, it's more than most people have I always ask do you have a million dollars? Generally, the answer is no. Generally. How often has it been? yes? Are you talking to Dave? I've never done Dave to Dave. I think even Dave would say a million dollars is a lot of money. Yeah. And if you lost that, it would hurt no matter how much money you had. Maybe if you're Elon or something, you're like, that's chump change. For the average human being, a million bucks would change their life. So to say it's not a lot. Now, it's not a lot if you plan on spending one hundred thousand dollars a month for the next thirty years. I don't think you're gonna make it into your two. I wouldn't know how to do that But I'd like to try Make for a good video Dave, give me the budget for that. I spent one hundred thousand dollars a month for twelveths. Here's what happened. And at the end of just, I spent one point two million dollars. That's what You're dead by two hundred at this point much happy with it. Would you actually overspend if you were given one hundred thousand and you could go into debt to spend even more?'t No, thank you. That's a frightening scenario. Okay, so far into the game, I feel like we've been fairly agreeable. But here's something I'm super disagreeable about, and that is getting spammed and scamm. Not a fan, no, thank you, ma'am. And that's why I'm a huge fan of removing my personal info using Delete Me, one of today's sponsors. DeleteMe does all the hard work of hunting down your data and wiping it from data broker sites It's like a digital bloodhound, and it keeps monitoring those sites, protecting your privacy twenty forty seven. And I'll tell you, I'm a much more agreeable person the fewer spam likely calls I get from Bug Tussle, Kentucky. 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You can make the switch at boostmobile d. com slash Ramsey twenty five dollars forever requires customers to remain active on boost unlimited plan Headline number five, a Nomura study says sixty five percent of institutional investors see crypto as a vital portfolio diversifier So here's the agree or disagree Crypto should be a part of your investing portfolio. Agree or disagree Whoa. I didn't know you were anti crypto They don't have any Can I tell you I officially have some because I forced against my will. I was This was with Graham Stehan, right? Yeah, he said, if I buy you if I buy you a share of IBT, you will then technically own crypto. I said great. If you want to So he literally then mowed me forty four dollars to buy a share of IBT. So I can't I can no longer say I don't own any crypto. Okay. Apparently I do. I mean, it's changed your life, I'm sure. Oh my gosh. Every day I look at him go, look at that Still there, stillill meaningless So yeah, I don't think crypto is a It should be part. If you want it to be ap partart. I always say, hey, use some fun money, donon't let it be a huge part of your net worth or your portfolio. But if you want to you know do a little bting on the side after you've already been building some wealth, you're investing into retirement accounts and tax advantaged accounts, then go for it. It's the same way with individual sucks. You can set aside a small portion of your portfolio if you want to, that's fine.. I have just found that there are very few people who can do both really well whereere they go, oh yeah, I'm maxing out my four hundred one K and I enjoy a little crypto single stocks over here. They're generally different mindset. Because I have a day job that I put my time into and I've got family that I put my time into. I kind of want my investments to run themselves. I don't want to have take from either of those buckets, time or work. You don't want to Track at twenty four seven And write down a code on a tiny piece of paper that you have to keep in a safe. I am going to lose that piece of paper Thank you for that. Well, here's the truth, seventy nine percent of those people plan to invest in the next three years, but they're only allocating about two to five percent Interesting. And fourteen percent of US adults own some form of cryptocurrency. I thought it was like one in ten, so it's growing slowly. Maybe their friend Ven moded them. Gaining some market share, Maybe the Graham Steffenss of the world forced you into it. But it does feel a little bit MLMy. You know what I mean?ike the people who are into it are really into it. Well, they get real loud when it's doing And then when it's not doing so hot, we don't seem to hear anything. Yeah, they talk about the weather or sports. anythingthing else It's easier for me. I just never talk about it. Yeah, except for this. I guess I am talking about it technically. All right, headline number six fififty one percent of US consumers expect AI to replace financial advisors. So agree or disagree. AI can give you better advice than a financial advisor And I'm slightly tilted on this one thought because I don't think it's a bad idea to use AI to better your financial situation, but I would never use it as Gspel truth, do whatever the AI said. becausecause the AI gets math wrong. So your projections for your retirement could be wildly off versus a human sitting down looking at real numbers, using you more robust software to run these numbers. I think it's a great tool. but I would say once someone's accumulated wealth, once you get to the point where you're thinking about retiring or maybe you're within ten years of that A lot of the problems are behavioral learearning how to spend when you're been so accustomed to saving can't tell that in a great way. Well, it can only deal with the inputs and information you've given it. Yes. And therefore, it doesn't know what questions to ask. Becauseuse you could say, hey, what if I end up in long term care and it's going to say great point. A lot of people do end up in long term care and it's gonna cost X amount. Great questionary. Can I help you with anything else today Gosh, it's like an Apple store.s just too many employees, not enough people. That's interesting. Here's the stats on this. twenty six percent of US consumers have sought financial advice from an AI powered app or chat bot in the past year Which is actually pretty impressive that twenty six percent of anybody in the US is interested in seeking financial advice. I think it's a tool. So I think that that's great. Yeah. more trying to better their finances because of AI. So I see that as an absolute win twentyw percent say they have made a significant financial decision primarily based on AI tools recommendations I hope it worked out for those twenty percent. Depends. How big of a significant financial decision is scary. Is this like hundreds of thousands of dollars? Like shouldh I buy this house? with zero down That's it's like it's like a magic eightate ball for us now. we're just like, shouldh I tell me Chai BT Only thirty one percent say they would feel comfortable sharing their full financial data with an AI system for personalized advice. Oh, o I've shared it all. I've shared it all. It knows you knows everything It knows everything about every inch of my life. So we have security. Weving in do sell my data like every other company already has. That's fine. What are you gonna to market to me with products that I might like? GP? is running ads on their low model now. That's right. Wow Well, and I've seen they're using like affiliate links and so it wouldn't not shock me if in the future. it's I shouldn't have It's telling me what I need Moving on, headline number seven. Okay, this is a headline that's phrased as a question. So get ready When's the moment you're so rich that investment contributions don't matter? How to figure out your crossover point Is this my headline? I have a video with this. I know you have a video on it. I don't know if they stole of you. Yeah did they Probably. Okay. Knowing that most websites are just using YouTube videos to create content. I'm like, I have a video that's very close to that title. It's good. cheheck it out. Well, that's where we came up with this. and we saw there was an article on it.. We needed a headline. Yeah, notot a YouTube title. So you can tell me more but the crossover point for wealth creation occurs when your portfolio growth rate exceeds your annual contributions.. Is that right I mean' definition. Yeah, that's great one. So give us the a real scenario. likeike my portfolio growth rate, let's say, I have a million dollars The market did ten percent. So I gre it grew by one hundred thousand dollars, which was more than I contributed to the account that year Is that the crossover point So Here's the agree or disagree You can stop investing after you reached the crossover point agree or disagree We're so aligned. This kind of goes with like the coast fire mentality. like the crossw explain coast fire. because so fire, financial independent retire early, but then coast fire. Coastfire is more aligned with traditional retirement But a traditional retirement age, but it would have you aggressively saving and investing when you're in your twenties and thirties and amassing maybe two hundred, three hundred thousand dollars at a young age. And then theoretically, you would not have to continue contributing to your investments. And if you left it invested until the age you under retire, let's say sixty five, it would get to the number you wanted it. Without me contributing more Yes. So it's like I'm pushing the snowball, getting more snowalling the market's going to do. I let it just go downhill and I'm like, hopefully it'll just get big enough O its own. Yes That's my fifth grade analogy. That's great Well, here's my take on this. I don't think you should ever stop investing until you actually are officially retired and your portfolio has proven itself that you have enough income coming in to not have to put any mort into the bucket. Yeah. I think there are times where We're going to be able to save more in times in life where we may be able to force to save less because maybe kids are expensive, something's happening. But I think if you can save, you should And I think there are times if you can save aggressively and put yourself ahead, that's great. Take advantage of those. I also don't think the person who's saving twenty, thirty, forty percent of their income is suddenly going to go be like, Hit the milestone. I'm out, I'm not saving anything. They're just too ambitious to fully stop. Okay, headline number eight Elon Musk says, you don't need to worry about saving for a retirement. This is a wild one. So Musk says that goods and services people need will be almost free because of AI He's not saying that we're going to just make money out of nowhere from AI, but he's saying that AI will make everything that we would consume I don't understand that logic because I know how capitalism works. Yeah. aggree or disagree, AI will make investing relevant Sorry, Elon, we disagree. and I know that means something to you 's difficult My mom calls him Eli Musk Eli Be Elies so much? No, she just does not know. She just thinks his name is Eli. Okay. I was like, Oh, what good mom bird. seventy five and we go. Bess. you haven' do you correct her? No, because it's hilarious. Well, to be fair A seventy five year old doesn't know anybody named Elon. Yes, I know Wow, well, that's all my headlines But I did want to talk about your philosophy when it comes to investing in money. The Ramsay philosophy is pretty simple. liive on less than you make. Create enough margin to invest the difference, stay out of debt, invvest fifteen percent until your house is paid off into tax advantage retirement accounts. Once the house is paid off, you can max it all out and have a great life and live and give like no one else, spend more, upgrade your life, have incredible experiences and you should be fine love it So what tweaks do you have for that as you talk to your audience? What are you seeing? in the reality of people who are attempting to retire because you're talking to people who are on the cusp or they're in retirement going, I don't want to run out of money. So what are these sort of Pitfalls as we're looking out going, hey, invest fifteen percent, you'll be fine. You can't screw it up if you avoid single stocks and crypto and don't stay too conservative in bonds. So there's sort of the spectrum from super risky to notot nearly risky enough Well I'm gonna to say I read Total Money Makeover from Dave Ramsey when I was sixteen when it first came out. So I'm like an OG follower I never had the chance to get any debt because of Dave. So that's amazing man. I would say when people get to retirement Usually it's the mindset shift I think the vast majority of people who have saved, the vast majority of people who've gotten to the point that they're either carrying a very low mortgage. I like the idea of going into retirement completely debt free. I love that stance Some people are going to make the argument, my mortgage is sitting at two percent. It's got five years left or it's got three years left. I'm like, I get it. It's going towards princial. You can carry it. That's fine. That's on you. But the people who've gone in and paid off the vast majority of the debt and they have savings, they're going to be fine. The idea is it's shifting from being a saver to a spender. And I think that's the biggest thing I hear about on my channel because a lot of the people have done the hard work. If they're watching your channel, they're probably doing okay. That's kind of the paradox funny part. Yeah. b it not investing orre like, Oh, I'm very curious about what Earon thinks about my retirement. what would happen? I don't have conversion? Yeah Yeah So I find that to be true on the Ramsay show. We get a lot of calls with people go, Hey, I'm Baby step seven, payid off house. Yeah. We got two million dollars. My husband doesn't think we should go on a twenty thousand dollars vacation And it is harder upgrade the car. We've been driving the same car for twenty years. It's time for an upgrade Can we do it? It's like they're asking us for permission because no one taught them how to unlock that sort of intensity and just go, hey, you can chill now. You can put it on cruise control and enjoy your life. Look around the Look at the scenery. Yeah instead of just white knuckling on, you know, the steering wheel. So how do you think peopleeople can sort of downshift and enjoy their money more once they've accumulated it I think it goes back to having an income floor and having an emergency fund becausecause I think you can look at having Two million dollars invested, three million dollars, even five hundred thousand dollars. And you're like, that is a big pot of money. I'm not going to touch it. I don't want to touch that. That's my security. That's everything I've built up and And we're always taught donon't touch the principple So we look at that as untouchable. And so when people step away from the workforce, they're like, oh N not supposed to touch that, what do I live on? So I think if you can you're trained to tade it like a hot stove. Yes. And so now you're like, I don't w want to touch it Let it grow, let it. let it grow, especially if you retire and the market is volatile, the market's down twenty percent. like, oh I don't want to sell now because now it's down. So if you have these cash buckets you could turn to, whether that's a year, maybe two years, whatever your risk tolerance tells you, you know your next year or two of expenses is covered. If you time when you're claiming social seecurity, if you have a pension, all of these things give you permission to spend because they feel like They's spendable money, this money sitting in cash, this money that's coming in every single month. That's money you have permission to spend because it still feels like a paycheck That makes sense. you that out. Do you have a recommended amount of sort of reserves in retirement of amount to have in you know, high yield savings account or bonds where like, hey, if you have a year or two of your expenses socked away, you can sort of stomach a market downturn. des on the individual. And I know it depends is like a terrible answer it's a classic answer in the financial planning world because I mean, there's a lot of truth to it. Yeah So I mean, if somebody has a higher risk tolerance, maybe a year or two If somebody is more conservative and they're really fearful of how the market might perform, maybe they go all the way up to three to five years, and that's okay. If that allows you to sleep at night and you don't wantan to worry about what the market is doing, yes, it might create a little drag on your portfolio. It might not be the most mathematic optimal Optimal. Yeah. But I mean, if it's stress optimal, then that's the good choice If you sleep at night, it's worth not being optimal. That's beautiful Well, I think the key here, and again, if it's funny because if you're watching this episode probably doing okay. Yes. The fact that you're paying attention to your money, you want to invest, you want to build wealth, you want to retire with dignity, tells me that you will Yeah. And what I found is I can't make people want something more than I want it for them on the Ramsay showow. We get these calls and I'm like, hey, it's fine if you don't want to get out of debt I can't make you. I can't make your parents invest in retirement. You can't change people. So you need to want it and you need to do something about it. And so the running joke around here is go find yourself becausecause no one's gonna do it for you. No one's coming to save you. If do the basic things, live on less than you make. invest the difference vast majority of people. So encouraging. are You are like the female Mr. Rogers. Love it. Comp Compared to Caleb Hammer Cared to Caleb Which makes me, I don't know, Bliippy. I don't know where that puts me on the spectrum. Listen, I've heard about Blippy. He's not allowed in our household Yeah, I've tried I don't know how my daughter found out about him, but it's too late now. It's flippy and popsicles in my house. why is that allowed in? I just put my headphones on and try to avoid it. Well, Aron, thank you for being here. I want to make sure everyone goes and checks out your amazing content you're putting out regularly on Eron Talks money to help people retire dignity and not screw this whole wealth building thing up Lve below your means, can't screw it Thank you Now I've got a question for you. agree or disagree? We had fun today Hyrid Big thanks to Erin for joining me. Gohe check out her channel, Erin Talks Money. We' drop a link in the description below And if you want to see an agree to disagree that was far more combative, watch this one coming up next where I was joined by Caleb Hammer, America's Agriest Caleb. Click here to watch it or use the link in the description. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time