Lightning Round and Final Thoughts

It's been so long since I've seen people into house hacking lately because interest rates have gone up so much. It just doesn't make sense financially. It's harder right now. I sports bet. I think it's fun, but I just do it with my entertainment budget. My friends do it and, I recommend he,y guys just, do it with your entertainment budget. I have no problem with any of that. The problem is when you start saying it's an investment. But these guys are out there. These twenty three year olds, they all want to be entrepreneurs, they probably watch your channel. Do you think you have perpetuated the manosphere lifesty le. I think if you're publicly promoting one agenda, I would rather publicly promote your agenda because I think this goes with the assumption that people are smart enough and disciplined enough to capitalize off this. Last question , money is I'm about to sit down with two guys who've made more money talking about money than most people actually working for money. And that's Graham Stefan and Jack Selby, or as I affectionately call them by their couple name, Gracsteffelby. You know them from Ice Coffee Hour, and today I'm confronting them on credit scores, crypto, and California Dreams getting crushed. And who's bringing you this beautiful conversation? Our friends at Delete Me, the sponsor of this channel. Let's get to it . Graham Jack, welcome back. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You guys look good. Retired. Yeah, you been on the road or what? No. You did this so early in the morning . It's nine hundred thirty . It's really seven hundred thirty R. It's seven hundred twenty four our time. We have to wake up early, get here before I usually ever wake up. Oh, I can't wait for you to have kids. You're screwed, man. That's gonna be brutal. All right, to be sleeping then. Well, you know what? It's not going to be a epis sodleeep.y I'm gonna get the energy up here Richest ice coffee hour guest you've interviewed. I'm guessing it's a billionaire. Yes, it would be Michael Saylor. Yep. I would say Michael Saylor followed by Papa John . I mean, there Grand Cardon could be in the argument. I'm just saying why though? Well, we don't know. It's not verified. I would like to say Ramsay Dave Ramsey here. Yeah, than Cardon. We don't know this. We don't. It's just pure speculation. Speculation. Sure. But Grant Cardown could go bankrupt tomorrow, zero chance of that happening with Dave. So I think that gives Dave a point. That could give him a point. He's got he's got a point. Yeah, all right. All right. I want to know this. You guys are your credit score guys. I famously don't have one. So I wanted to know kind of living vicariously through you, what is your credit score currently? Can you pull up the app and find out how does that work? It's eight hundred forty three right now. Did you check this morning? Is it like you have ? I check like once a week. Okay, it doesn't change. No. And I have an account with Experian and so it just updates. eight hundred forty three . And is the highest sort of like an eight hundred fifty? eight hundred fifty. I've never gotten to eight hundred fifty before. Does that make you mad? Yes. Have you called Experian to say, Hey, can you bump me seven points? Make me feel really good. I should have. What does that do for you at this stage of life other than like getting good insurance rates. I could brag about it on a podcast. That's about it. That's about it, right? Okay. Yeah, but you know what, ten years ago, it would have it would have given me such lower like, I don't quite need to borrow money the same way that I used to be able to. Did you ever really need to borrow money? Yes. Yeah, when I buy when I'm buying a duplex and I'm putting fifteen percent down, I'm able to get like a three percent mortgage rate fixed for year to year. Could you have paid cash at that point? No. You didn't have the money. This is before this is the year you were like just started mid twenties. I couldn't pay, you know, got it because I was buying this place for like, let's say six to nine hundred thousand dollars and putting money into it. There's no way I had that amount of money. But I had one hundred and fifty I could put down and that got you started. That got me started. Sure. Yeah. Okay, how about you? Okay, so I actually didn't even have credit card on my phone. So I had to download it real quick. But I have like seven hundred and seventy , which is insane. It's absolutely insane. There's the thing that I don't understand about your credit score is that there is actually no like general theme that they follow. It's very arbitrary how they give you a credit score because when I first got my credit cards when I was eighteen, I had a score of seven hundred and thirty right out the gate, seven hundred thirty. And I have gone up forty points since getting two mortgages. I have eight credit cards, who knows how many. I have only ever paid off, I've never been laid on payments . I didn't even finance a car. I paid cash for my car. I have perfect credit in terms of like what you are fiscally responsible. I am low utilization. I do everything exactly right and it's gone up thirty points over ten years. So I'll tell you what's going on with Jack is that he needs more time . How do I need more time? It's been ten years. Yeah, because you've opened up new accounts recently, like the mortg theage mortgage, is considered a new account before the mortgage I had seven hundred and seventy. My credit score does not change . It doesn't . When you have more than ten plus you considered that the credit score really is only a measure of how well you've handled debt and not actually how well you're doing financially. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would agree. All right, yeah. I also say people with higher credit scores probably are better with money. Like if you were to like do a plot chart, generally, like if your credit score is five hundred, are you good with money? When usually I'll say someone's bad with money, it means they are in a bunch of consumer debt, probably missing payments, paying interest. Yeah, yeah, it's no safe. To have a good credit score, you have to pay your debts on time as agreed consistently. You miss one payment and your score drops by like your day off if you too much, too fast, close too many counts, too fast . That's a pretty intense short term, but it'll eventually rebound. Yeah. If someone says, I need to build my credit , that usually does not suggest that they're at a good spot financially. So it sounds like you're a little bit, I wouldn't say stressed about the credit score , but you're a little miffed that it's not hired . I don't care. So at this point in life, are you guys getting more debt? Yeah. Anything. What are you taking on? You just took on a million dollar loan. Yeah, just borrowed for your primary mortgage? No for business. Business. Yeah. Okay, this is the ice coffee hour headquarters at this point. Yeah. Okay. And then you have a primary mortgage as well . Okay. And how about you, Graham? Yeah, I'm going to be taking on some more debt at some point, but I'm not doing it with a mortgage. I'm doing what's called the box spread. So it's an options play where you could borrow money against stocks and then you write it off as a capital loss. So it's like the step beyond a mortgage. So you have, let's say a m,illion doll ars in stocks. You go to the bank and say, Hey, I've got a million in stocks. Are you giving me a loan? No , this is not a bank. This is not a bank. You do it through your brokerage and you're able to basically borrow money against your stocks, but it's counted as a capital loss because if you buy a primary , you can't deduct the mortgage interest . So if I get a five percent interest rate, I can't deduct that. So when you think of what that's worth after tax that's like me making eight percent to be able to pay five. Couldn't you avoid all of that if you just paid cash? That would be dumb. Because I could borrow right now like three point five four percent after capital losses at three point five four that's inflation , it's free money . In fact, I'm actually getting paid to borrow money. There's no hanging me. Why would you do that? Just go all in. Put all the chips in if they're gonna pay you money to do this. You could, and people do. Why don't you, then? Because I don't need to on that. But if I'm buying a primary, I'm not going to be selling out of stocks to do that. Okay. Would you say there is some risk in that, though? No. Zero risk. No , the only risk, I calculated this the other day, actually, if the S and P five hundred falls ninety two percent, I risk a capital call. But as long as the SMP depression levels? Yes. As long as it doesn't fall ninety two percent . I'm fine. It has been about a hundred years since the Great Depression. I think we're due. Would you agree? Yeah, but even then it fell eighty nine percent. So I should be okay. Well, let's talk about this. You famously left California, quote unquote. You had a bunch of real estate there and you said, I am done. Sick of it. I'm sick of the bureaucracy, the insanity, I'm selling off the properties. I'm not gonna be your real estate guru anymore. I'm just gonna be a little stockboy. Yeah. What happened? People have heard this story so often, I think not my audience of it. Trust me . They don't watch your content . Yeah. I think we have a huge overlap. You don't think so? I think they know of you , but I don't know that they're watching all of your videos and watching all of my videos. It's simply too much. It's too much nerdery. I mean, you're already starting to look like me. In fact, I have a jacket very similar to that. Where'd you get that? Do you like this? Yeah . It's it's mine . Is it? Yeah, it's where's that from? No, it doesn't matter. That looks just like the jacket I had in my wardrobe out here. No. Did you grab that on the way in? No, so in terms of the properties though, that looks great. That looks great. I didn't have to buy them . Let's like give the properties. I'm sick and tired of it. It is such a headache. And so I'm prepping them now to sell. But even now prepping to sell is its own headache because LA multifamily is taken a huge hit. So investors are not buying it. So my only chance of selling these for top dollar is to appeal to an owner user. But to appeal to an owner user, I have to go through and I'm spending probably seventy to eighty thousand dollars this month . Oh, dressing them up. I'm redoing floors , windows, paint, landscape is so much like stuff I'm doing to make it look nice. Did it already need that when you bought it and you just neglected it? No , it's just so the tenants just destroyed it. It's different. No, no, no, it's different when you're doing a rental versus an owner an owner user wants the place to be perfect, move and ready. If you're selling to an investor, they're going to come in, they're going to do their own things. Every investor is going to be unique in terms of what they want to do to it. But my chance of selling this is hoping that someone wants to live in one of the units and rent out the others to cover their cost. Isn't that the cool thing to do right now? The house hack? Yeah. It's been so long on TikTok. It's been so long since I've seen people into house hacking lately because interest rates have gone up so much. It just doesn't make sense financially. It's harder right now. And it's really only specific to certain locations. Like Vegas, we don't have duplexes and triplexes. All single family. Oh, interesting. L. A. has a lot of duplexes triplexes. Do you think you could take a loss on some of these if they're hard to sell? No, no, I'm not gonna take a loss. Okay, they've appreciated enough that I mean I bought them in like twenty sixteen , seventeen . Are they paid off now? No. No, no, I got thirty year mortgages on them like three something percent. three point three seven percent. Are they just sitting right now or they have tenants still? One of 'em is completely empty, which means I could sell it for a premium. And then I have another one with a tenant and kind it of' awskward to do all the renovations while the tenants living there, isn't it? No, I gave him an offer for a buyout and we just couldn't come to an agreement on a price because I look at like okay, what am I going to pay for a buyout versus what is the RO I of then selling it empty? And it was at a price where it just it didn't make sense. And the tenants had been there a long time. I really like these people a lot too. And so I have a feeling, you know, they're just going to stay . you' Nowre emotionally invested. You're like, well , we're friends now. We are. Yeah, me and him and his family we get along. He's one of the easiest ten times I've ever had. How about this one? You interviewed Simon Squib. You were asked about good de bverstus bad dad debt, and you said, quote, I have a lot of good debt and good debt is something that makes you more money than you spend. Correct. Is that true? Yes. What happens if YouTube changes the algorithm, Ice coffee hour income gets cut in half? Stripping. That's what you would turn to. What I would know, that's what he would turn to. I think that he oh no, that's like a jack. Yeah, I mean, I think it was talking about he was our best ticket. I actually disagree. I think I was gonna Ram would attract a larger audience. You're more of a brand manager. You saw him behind the scenes guy. You saw him with the denim before this. I'm telling you, there was something there. Funny, that wasn't even my jacket. Jack is the one that commented how feminine it looked. Is it feminine or denim? I think he was projected because he's never taken belonging to Denim Jacket. Someone was taking footage back there. Show the footage right now. Don't tell me what to do. You ask Grant Cardoner Ice Coffee Hour what he would go into today if he wanted to get rich quick . His answer, I would become an AI consultant, I'd make a million dollars in year one. The thing is yeah, you believe it. I believe if you was an Akansol depending so much more than that. The thing is with Grant, he's naturally charismatic. He's a good salesperson. He could sell . Even if it was a terrible product, he could sell it. I don't think I don't think AI thing is a terrible product. No, no, no, keeping AI consulting is there's a market for that. That's a huge market. But this idea that like anybody, you know, it's kind of he was kind of saying, hey, anybody, if you just go be an AI consultant, you make a million dollars. I think anyone has the potential to learn and build a business around that. How many people are actually doing it? Because I've seen not just him but other people are like, Oh, just become a consultant and just ten X someone's business and boom, you got a million bucks. How would you do it? Not by promising I'm going to ten extra business. I could ask Grand Cardon right now. I would use my current skill set to find work that I could do that is scalable. If you want to call Grand Cardon, what are you gonna say? I'm gonna say how exactly would you make a million dollars your first year? Perfect AI consultant. Do you want to do it? Yeah, let's do it. Let's see if he picks up. He's not picking up. He's probably blocked your number at this point. Grant Cardone woke me up with a call three weeks ago. What did he say? He was asking about YouTube strategy. He called me, I didn't answer, and he called me again an hour later and woke me up and I answered. Well, did you tell me you're right to be a YouTube consultant? It's a million dollars a year . All right, here we go. You don't work for free. He wouldn't either . Your call has been for. Text him, text them, say hey . I'm on a podcast right now. We desperately want to know how you would make a million dollars as an AI consult ant in year one. Let me just do this. All right, yeah. Grant, I'm on a podcast right now, and they brought up you saying you would make a million dollars your first year being an AI consultant. And I thought it'd be really interesting to call you and get exactly how you do that . Also, totally find an answer. If you could just text me in response how you would make a million dollars your first year doing that, that would be incredible content. Shut out. Also, love me so much. There we go. Go. Now he's heard . I was hoping to sneak that in. Oh, that was a voice memo. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was a voice to text. I take it back. Voice memo. I wanted him to think you ended the text with the sound Let's take a quick break to talk about some real financial drama, your overpriced phone bill. But you can avoid that drama with Boost Mobile, a sponsor of today's video. You'll pay just twenty five dollars a month forever on their unlimited plan. No contracts, no hidden fees, no nonsense . You bring your unlocked phone, keep your number, and enjoy unlimited wireless because who wants to limit their wireless? Nobody. So switching is simple. Just go to boost mobile dot com slash Ramsay, and then , you know, they'll take it from there. twenty five dollars forever requires customers to remain active on boost unlimited plan. Talking money with Jack and Graham, mostly fun. Having your personal data being bought, sold, and traded, mostly not so fun. And that's why I use Delete Me, a sponsor of today's video. They go out and remove your personal info from hundreds of data broker sites, the ones that are selling your email, your phone number, your address, your family's information, basically your entire digital life. And the best part, they do all the work for you behind the scenes all year long and send you a report showing you what they removed, where and how much time they've saved you. So start protecting yourself today. Take control of your digital privacy and get twenty percent off their annual plans by going to joindeleteme dot com slash George. Let's get back to the conversation, shall we? What ran Cardo texted back immediately, mind you? He said, Yes, here's the exact thing that I would do. I would target small business owners, plumbers, contractors, HVAC, chiropractors, dentists, etc. I would become an expert in one area, systems accounting, sales response, marketing car dealers . I would install AI to resolve that problem. I would charge six to eight k a month, ten clients eight k a month, one million dollars a year. There are thirty two million small businesses in America. They can't afford to hire one person or two people or three people or four people. They're running their businesses. They have their problems or hands full with problems. I think he voiced to texted this. Chalking on AI , I see impossible for the small business center. I'm sorry he got his hands full. He can't hire one person at six eight thousand dollars. A month doesn't have the HR, doesn't have the reach, doesn't know where to start, doesn't want to learn it. I'm not gonna lie . Yeah, that sounded like a string of consciousness right there. Yeah, but I get his point. You're gonna go to like these sort of like businesses that are not that sexy with people who do not want to understand AI, but see the value in it to offload and sort of lower their expenses and scale. And I'm gonna be completely honest, I completely agree with them. Yeah. Like I think that there is actually so much money to be made there. Why are you doing it? Because I'm doing the ice coffee hour and I like pick yeah, but I mean a million bucks doing AI consulting eight K a month from going Jack can make twenty thousand a month doing social media consulting. So he does this as basically a ministry for you . He does this because you need it for survival. Yeah. This is all you have in life outside of a wife and a cat in an aquarium. Two cats and a dog. Oh, wow. You got a lot going on. It's a zoo You tried to set Jack up on a blind date. Who responded to that? We got how many hundreds of responses? But you haven't found love yet. No one of interest ? Nobody in the pipeline currently? No. Does Macy have any single friends? No. We got the very similar group of friends. So everyone I know a bunch of dudes is what I'm here. Must be finance dudes. That's terrible. You guys also had the Dogecoin millionaire on your show. Do you guys still think that meme coins or even just mainstream crypto is anyone's path to wealth today? To a certain degree, I think Bitcoin Ethereum has potential. I would say probably more so Bitcoin, but meme coins are always going to be there and there are always going to be these spikes up and just pump and dumps basically. Would you consider that essentially gambling at this stage? Yes. Oh yeah, for meme coins, yes. Absolutely. How much crypto do you guys currently have? twelve percent of your portfolio? Yeah . That means that's seven figures . You do the, you know, napkin math, yeah. That's the only math I do. Yeah . I'm a napkin guy. That's like ten percent . Wow. Okay. You feel good about that? How's it been doing for you? I'm probably break even . Okay. I'm up. Today, Bitcoin's up three percent. Oh, is it? So maybe I'm up. I don't really know. Well, you I heard you talk about this a few years back that you sold your dogecoin. You bought for a hundred bucks sold, it at thirteen thousand dollars thirteen . And then you bought a Rolex that you now call the Dodgelex. Yes. Do you still have it? Yes. Why aren't you wearing it? I honestly forgot to bring a watch on the whole trip. On the whole trip. Yeah . I'm not a big watch guy if I'm being honest. What are you? Would you consider yourself a big watch? Pickleball guy? Look at his sauces . Pickleball. Yeah, I mean, I this is Did you get a pickleball court installed on the new compound? It's so expensive. It is. They're quoting me like eighty grand. No, but I also have to retain a wall. I have to do all of this other work if I want to build a pickleball court 'cause you have to level it. What's about the not driveway? Just do it on the driveway. I'm going to change concrete that is perfectly . Who gets the design? Is this fifty dollars? I bought it Jack Bob. Oh, this is all you. Yeah . So you can do whatever you want to do. I can do whatever I want. But I would stick the driveway in the side and just put a net there and just play around . Have you thought about doing a go fun meet with the ice coffee hour audience and they can all come play pickleball? Am I the only one coming up with these ideas? That's a really good idea, actually. I haven't even thought about that. It could be like a membership. The point being it's really expensive to build a pickball court. I would love to need eighty people to give you a thousand dollars for exclusive access . They can schedule a time to come play with or without you. That actually would be a good Yeah. DM me on Instagram if you're interested. And if this works, I get ten percent. Deal. Okay. I had Dr. Arthur Brooks on my show. Have you guys had him on? No, it's fantastic. You want to. He's brilliant. He talked about this doom loop, which is like the cycle of addiction that keeps you stuck and miserable. Like you do the thing and then you feel terrible about the things you need more of the thing. And I want to talk about that as it relates to personal finances, especially as we see a lot of young men out there who are facing gambling addiction, sports betting, prediction markets . Now we got Pokemon cards and sports cards. Would you bucket all of that into this sort of addictive cycle ? No. Pokemon cards? Have you not seen people line up to just rip a pack up and see if there's something in it? Oh is that not fun? That's what I used to do when I was eight years old. I had so much fun doing this. And that eight year old is still living inside of you. That degenerate gambler in here hoping to get the call I don't think you could quite put Pokemon in the same category as like sports betting. Which one's dumber? Sports betting . So to all the people out there who sports bet, saying the Pokemon guy saying my thing is dumb, how do you, what's your retort? They're wrong. You're saying I just know see I them both as the lottery . None of it is investing, right? And then if it's not investing, what is it? You could just call it your entertainment expense. Yeah. Some of it, like, for example, if you sports bet, that's truly gambling, right? I sports bet. I think it's fun, but I just do it with my entertainment budget. My friends do it. And I recommend, hey, guys, just do it with your entertainment budget. I have no problem with any of that. The problem is when you start saying it's an investment and pokemon cards, Pokemon cards, I would say is better than sports betting because you're buying something that doesn't necessarily, it's not consumable. It doesn't go away. Sports betting you put a hundred dollars goes down to zero. Pokemon cards you spend a hundred dollars in Pokemon Card. Maybe it depreciates ten percent, twenty percent, and maybe it goes up. So like you're still retaining an asset. How much Pokemon cards do you have right now? What's the total value? See the value went up? My gosh, now it's probably like thirty five grand a Pokemon. But I maybe I maybe spent eight Why don't you loan Jack half the pickleball court money by selling a Pokemon card? That could really do this. I could do a box spread. Yeah. Well, I was recently in Beverly Hills on Rodeo Drive asking people, are you rich And I talked to a bunch of twenty three year old guys whose sole goal in life was to make a million dollars a month, drive lamborghinis, and live this sort of manusphere lifestyle. Dayo Drive is not rich. I will go for those people if the people walking Rodeo Drive are all tourists. The really wealthy people do not shop at Rodeo Drive. They go to Century City Mall and they go into these like little boutique shops there. Okay, yeah. Rodeo Drive is just for marketing. That's all it is. It's just a big billboard. Basically, but these guys are out there. These twenty three year olds, they all want to be entrepreneurs, they probably watch your channel. Do you think you have perpetuated the manusphere lifestyle I'm young, I want to be rich by the time I'm twenty five. No. Gosh, I promote the most insignificant lifestyle out there of like living in the half of a duplex and like not buying coffee to save money. Well, you personally are frugal tightwood, but the people you have on ice coffee hour like the Justin Wallers, for example, that's why but then we also But then we also have a Bill Perkins right afterwards who's or a George Camel? Or a George Camel? Who's poor compared to the entire world. If we have someone on the right, we follow it up with someone on the left. All right, we're going to wrap with the lightning round. This is just a fill in the blank. So I'm going to start with Graham, then we'll go to Jack with his answer. The thing I refuse to spend money on is coffee ? This one was free today. Yeah, I know. All right, Jack, the thing I refuse to spend money on is expensive clothes? Expensive clothes. What defines expensive For a shirt, let's say a hundred dollars for a jacket, a few hundred dollars . That's the limit. Or is that like, that's expensive to you, therefore I'm not gonna do that. That is expensive to me. I'd may in strange world, let's say I'm like in Italy with my family and I'm like, well, I can buy this random Italian sweater. I can only get here. Okay, like, yeah, like, assign more budget to this, but I generally don't buy expenses. I just shop everything in Costco. Or you get it for free. Yeah. I wish you could do hand me downs, but you guys are different sizes. That would have been nice . Could split a wardrobe. One thing that would surprise people about my last bank statement is neither of us probably look at our bank statements . I do. But you know what transactions have occurred in the last month? What would the thing be like, man, if someone saw this, they'd be like, Jack, what the heck was this about? I could not tell you how much dollar twenty on ? I could not tell you how much I have on my AmX right now. I could not tell you. I would guess three thousand bucks what my is the balance on the AMX . You want to look? I'm not even never even go for I feel dirty just logging the Amax. So for you get one thousand eighteen hundred on the business gold, three hundred and seventy on the platinum , four hundred thousand membership rewards points. Lord only knows what that means. Okay . How do I look at like oh, okay, business gold shows the transaction Chipotle coffee f lower child that's a good spot in and out more fa leers more flower child , we're eating good. We're eating clean. I like that. Pest control that ain't cheap. Coachella Coachella Coachellico Cello Cello Cello Collic ella. Holy coachella, batman . I was buying I went with like other like YouTubers . Okay. And so I was buying a lot. A good thousand bucks at Coachella. Yeah, easy. That's fun. All right. Yeah. That's surprising. Nothing on mine. Yeah, I would say the only thing's maybe a lot of Amazon purchases. That's normal. W thatas for mostly for Mac y or for you? I would say most of them probably for the warehouse. Oh, for the BIS. Yeah. Okay. That's all just like random. What was this? For the biz. What is this? What is this? I do air quotes I like to make business and air quotes. Yeah. Well, is it a business we don't know. Is it a shell company? It's a business. Is it a shell company? No, it's a real company. Everything's a ride off. If you're buying stuff for the warehouse, yes . Yes. Yeah, we bought these little things to boost a cabinet off of the floor . And we got one and a half inch little spacers. So that was like the last charge from Amazon. That's a business exp.ansion When I went to Coachella, I went with people that source our brand deals and another ex guest on the ice coffee. Business trip. Yeah. Right off. Yeah. So IRS, if you're watching, he's good. Yeah, he's good. I'm good. People alright, yeah, but this one. People will win with money in twenty twenty six if they save . Save. That's simple. I would agree with that save. People win with money in twenty twenty six if they saf.e Invest , just to disagree . Okay , perfect. The biggest lie about success is , why are you giving me hard questions? It's impossible. I gave you soft tosses all day. We talk box spreads. I really let you do what you wanted. Success today . What really grinds your gears when you see it online and someone's going, well this is the way . I guess I don't like when people sell these like course systems. I mean, it's just to me it, seems a long time to bigg theest lie about success is that you're gonna get it from a single course . Some dudes sell away. Probably if I was to like say something. Okay, probably . If you were to say something, which he didn't, what he would have said . Jack, the biggest lie about success is I would say that it's impossible because a lot of people just don't think that there's light at the end of the tunnel. They think that like all these people online, they're just all lying to me. They just want me to buy their stuff. It's like some people do, some people don't. But like success is absolutely possible for literally every single person. It's really not that complicated. It's hard , but it's not complicated. Love it. Someone is definitely secretly broke if they usually it's when I see someone wearing like head to toe designer clothes. first thing through my mind is that they're broke. They're fake rich . Trying to look like they 're successful. Really wealthy person I've seen, you have no idea . They all are like they look like Jack. Yeah , all of the successful people you've ever met look like Jack. White, yeah, tall , moderately handsome. It's not gonna go that far. Non designer logo non designer logo. Yep. Okay, how about you, Jack? Someone is definitely secretly broke if they this is really I honestly just look at the shoes. It's all about the shoe game. Yeah, yeah, I'll look at the shoes. So what tells you someone secre'tsly broke when you look at their shoes? Well, I guess it's not really secretly, but like if their shoes are kind of battered . Oh ? I've never battered shoe equals grow th. Yeah, I would even though I will occasionally wear battered shoes, I just think that that's something that's a little bit less loud are the shoes that you're wearing. So if your shoes are in good shape , then you're probably like and this is like I can say this in a dogmatic way. Like it's not everyone that has battered sho es, but you know, I was at the Blackjack table recently. I won five hundred dollars. Congrats. Thank you very much. It was waged two hundred. It was. And there was a gentleman next to me and he was betting a lot of money. I was like, wow, I wonder if this person I looked down and his shoes were battered. And I thought, wow, like I want this guy to win, you know? So you really feel for him. Yeah, you have pity on him. I didn't have pity, but yeah, I wanted him to win. I got a good answer. It's when they brag. Oh . Every person is like, oh yeah, I did this and I did this. I'm like now I don't believe any of it because the really like successful, wealthy people, they never talk about it. Even when you ask, they tend to really like nothing to approve. Notification deal. Oh no, this thing is fine. All right, last question. Money is freedom. Took your answer. Were you gonna say freedom too? Yeah. All right, disagree with him then. I could say expensive From the heart , I say simple . Money is simple. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, I mean, I'm just the complicated ification and if I leverage this and move it over here and write this off and do the spread here and do the option, that hurts my brain. I just think I'm not smart enough and I just value simplicity and peace over leverage or arbitrage. That's the truth. I agree with you, and I think if you're publicly promoting one agenda, I would rather publicly promote your agenda than publicly promote a box spread because I think this goes with the assumption that people are smart enough and disciplined enough to capitalize off this. But new Ramsay personality Jack Seldegas were raining. But big data would suggest that people aren't. People are very irresponsible, that people are less intelligent , less disciplined than that. And so what is a more product ive thing to promote? Probably the thing that has a lower risk of failure, which would be George's. However, if you're giving one on one advice or advice to a very specific community . If Gram's talking to a gram, we're talking box spreads. twenty three year old is Googling Box Breads. But it doesn't mean that it's a bad thing to talk about online. It's just what's a better to like a very broad audience . Probably yours has a lower risk of failure. I think that's a perfect ending. I win. You guys lose. Thanks for being here. Big thanks to Jack and Graham for paying us a visit today. If you enjoyed this episode, you're going to love this next one where Jack and Graham and I got out of the studio and hit the road for an episode of Millionaires and Cars getting coffee. Click here to watch it next or use the link in the description. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.