Attention Economy and Gaming Rebound

Jan, is he gonna to make it? Is Tupuck gonna to make it? Oh, we're live. Oh, hey, welcome everybody. It's Giant Bumb at night live from Summer Game Fest and presented Please wish list. Alien fire teams elite too. It's going to be out and out soon. Go ahead and wish list that. We have a probably a QR code or something. I don't know. I just know I'm supposed to say, please wish list. Alien fire Teams elite two I am joined by some cool people on the couch as I will be all through tonight and tomorrow. looking forward to it Looking forward to hanging out with all of you and looking forward to talking to You Sean, can you please introduce yourself? Yeah, I'm Turbos Seaan. I edit the Bomcast and voicemail dump truck and support Jan as he needs it. You may have seen me on content in the past few years. You know, Jeff, In hindsight, maybe shouldn't have had the sound guy on the first segment. I listen, I've been thinking about it and I don't regret anything. Okay. Yeah. Jan's good back there, aren't you, buddy. I mean, honestly, Jan operates on stress so the more stress we give him, the better he is. holds him.'ay for the ulcer. Exactly. yes.. I will. Hi, I'm Will Crosby. I like long walks on the beach and you know, holding hands I also edit nine lies and our social content and sometimes hang out with all the buffoons atant giant bombs The hell What the hell is even that Hello. Iroduce yourself. I'm Chuck Zimmererhld, I'm principal, Pincipal engineer for giantomb d. com U I do more than what's on my name tag, I guess you like. Oh, I don't know be a fucking clown for you people. I' know what you mean? Yeah, I don't either, I guess. It's real warm in here, Jeff. Oh yeah, listen, I tell you what, you look comfortable Thank you. Yeah. Go ahead, Chris, introduce yourself I'm Chris Tiltson, a freelance composer. You may have heard some of my music in some video games or some TV shows or you may not have if you haven't watched them I'm also a giant bomb fan Excellent. Thankk you so much. And then Fen I'm Finn, the Noolan Nerd cast. I'm Freelance PR. I do all kinds of video game stuff, interviews and whatnot. And I'm actually Jeff Grub's best friend. That's right. sure. he's mentioned me many times. That's all we've been talking about actually. I believe for sure. Yeah. Yeah. actuallyctually F, I wanted to ask you, you come out to summer game fest, you R heard you went to the show tonight? Sure did. How was it? I'm going to be real. This is my first summer Games Fest to be here live. Yeah. It's just a whole different beast when you're there in person seeing it live and just like getting caught up in everyone's like excitement for everything. It was pretty cool. It was a lot of Games big and small that that I was down for And even though it started and ended with some really big ones, my favorite game was not one of those What was your favorite game? Wolf among this too. Okay. Yes. So you're the one. I am the one. Yeah.. you're the two two. I'm Okay, the number two. Yes, exact that' what we've been calling you all weekend. So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. so B you've been doing Nola Nerdcast for forever How's that going It's going great. I mean, been running all the pack stuff covering summer Games Fest, doing some collaborative work with our friends at Tower Geek. and but why though and just Do doinging some great stuff. I love it. I love interacting with people. I love coming to these events because it's when of the only time I get to see fun people like this is when I come to these events when you're not just people online Yeah. And it's just it's great. I will do it every time. Like the like the fan focused events like Packs versus something like this. Have you noticed a difference so far? I mean you haveven' been to playdayset but like what do you think I do so I got to do one E three before I died And so it's a lot closer to that where there's still like a bunch of people, but I do like the fact that it's more appointment based business focused, like we're there to cover the games write up about it. It's not just trying to find our intro into the game alongside thousands of other fans. I like the structure that it gives you. And it just feels a lot more community based for like the industry. Yeah, absolutely Chris, you're out here in LA when everyone comes into town. Is it Is it nice or like, oh God, the gamers are back. No no, I love it. chance to see a lot of industry friends on both the media and the developer side. So it's like Eespecially as you get older, like you see those folks less and lesses So it is really nice to see everyone and I'm looking hanging out U what's what's it like doing your job right now It's a rough time for a freelance composer or any freelancer or anyone working in this industry at all Y. U you know, thankfully I have a show called From that I've been working on for MGM plus and it's like where we're fourth season is on right now and I'm thankfully because usually, you know, these days like a show goes on and you get maybe one, two seasons and then that's it and right So it's like One of the few shows that's still sticking around. so'm And it's a really good show and I'm having a great time doing it. So I'm thankful to have a gig right now. so R sure ye. It's like, you know, sending out those demo reels seems to be getting less and less and less these last few years. Right? Is it just like less responses? L like people are like, Yeah, we'll talk to you later or what? It's more just productions are spread out everywhere overseas, some here, some there and like in a lot of the in the way they do structure a lot of deals is there's a lot of people that need to live in the country. to work on. and that often includes the composer, which probably came from some lawyer somewhere and it got set precedent, even though it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for this one person to need to be there, but that's just kind of how it is. and that's another big challenge of my job is it's like it's like, oh, do you Do you live in Siberia? It's like, oh, well, no, you can't score this Robinhood show that they're filming there, you know, kind of thing. Anden did you want to ask something? Yeah? I just wanted to point out that I've heard that from God renewed so many times because of the music. s what we're c' what they're saying? Yeahah, we were talking about that I don' think so. I think it's because it's a good show and people are people are watching it. so Chris, I was curious, what are some of the games you've that you've scored Mh You went far between these days, I did a bunch in the two thousands, but I did do two Assassin's Creed games, Unity and that VR one that came out a few years ago, which is a really good game. It's just, you know it's a VR game and there's just not a huge audience built in at the moment It was really fun to do because it had That game in particular had Etsio Cassandra uh, you know, and, um, Right I'm blanking on the character from Asassin's Cree to list all the assassins We're not like to get. So I got to play with themes from those games as well as create new st fun time. It does feel like that is like one of the stories about being in LA and being a creative in LA. right now. it's like a lot of the Biness, A lot of the like productions have like out of the city. it's and, you know, these companies are like it's expensive. So we are looking to cut costs and that means doing everything outside of LA as as much as possible. Is that like a trend that is continuing? slowing down? Do you think there's any sort of like stopgap for that. It is definitely continuing, but U certainly when it comes to the television side, it is still a star driven business. and so they're still going to get going to want recognizable movie stars So like though that aspect is probably going to that those people can like kind of be like, and I'm going to work in L.A. Is that kind of how it works or No no, but they get but they they get the exceptions to the So they can still fill other countries, but you know, you get three people who are not from here or something like that But no, it seems to continue, but you know There's still initiatives to film here. and you know, I am working on a different thing that I can't say that is being filmed in the United States, thankfully, is which is nice. So it's, you know, the exception to the rule these days at least lot of the stuff I get involved in these days What about like the musicians?ike, I mean, you're composer, like there's like I know there were deals in place to like get like actual orchestras here in the United States, and maybe specifically in Los Angeles to like work on work on games. Is that still something? or is that not as much of a thing anymore as well Well, there's two sides to that because First there's u TV productions. and if it's non union, then either don't have access to union players or players that you know, don't mind doing it on the down low kind of thing and then you all have Union productions in which like, okay So like the thing that's being I'm working on this being filmed in the United States is a union production. So when we do scoring, it has to be done with the musicians' union and all that stuff, which is good because like You get the pool of the best players. you get to film it and advertise, lookook what we're doing. We're filming, blah blah blah and all that and that stuff is fun So but when it comes to video games, it's just like There used to be a there used to be a union rate that Our good friend Tommy Talorico helped Yeah helped Helped get in the mid two thousands helped This is This is like a big W that Tommy Taloricos actually're responsible for Or in part or at least he claims to be well all right But no, gave it to He was leading an effort to because like prior to gettingetting the video game rate for the union, which eventually went away. And so all that work left here Getting that rate meant that like you could actually record Games course here because otherwise you had to use the rate that was reserved for like the biggest big budget movies and was because there was no video game rightates. So you just had to use this default absurd rate that like no one could afford, especially back then U And and then, you know, the musicians union got a new president. he was like, the video game industry makes billions of dollars. Therefore they should just pay this huge price even though that was like right at the beginning of like the indie game explosion when like, no, you want to have this lower rates because you have all these in the movies you have they could volnters. Like if you're employee under these amount of people cost this much, you can get this rate. And if it's more than this, it's this rate. and then if it's more than that, it's like the maximum rate. they just saw the big number. They just saw the big number and just was like, whoa You can video games is a big industry. You can just afford it.'s like And so basically all the work left and it never came back And there is a more palatable contract for video games and you occasionally will see some like Austin Wintery did something somewhat recent here right here. I forget what it was It was a it's some indie game beating up that there was a It was cool, but so like you do see occasion, but a lot of things move to like Tennessee, Seattle or just overseas in general Um John. you guys this is your first time helping us out with with suummer Game Fest, right? I'd like How' it been going? L Does it feel like the sausage has been made? Is it a As dumb as you thought it would be I mean, you could ignore the alien on the. This isn't dumb what This is art. Yeah, this ist an art piece. abbsolutely. All the above, like I've been helping Jan out getting everything set up. You know, Will's been helping out too. and I'm on the audio this weekend. and well not right now. Not right now.ike, you know, our stress booyys on that, And it's, you know, it's fun. I like doing this type of work, but it is also, yeah, it's stressful. like I can see why you can't have one guy the whole weekend. He needs some help. And so I'm glad that me and Will are able to do that And it's been a good experience so far. I'm excited to see what SGF weekend is like in general. I've never been to I was never at a three. This is my first SGF now So It's a lot of fun L we did the talk over earlier today, which I think, you know, went pretty well. And it is it's satisfying to like, you know As long as the audio is good and that's my job and that's getting done It feels good to put out a good product that we can be proud of collectively. Everyone's coming together, me, Jan, Will, and everyone else helping out. Yeah How about you W? Yeah, getting everything set up and, you know Finding love is a key It's really to watch. But yeah, just setting everything up and being like, oh, I forgot this thing. Do we have this thing? we And just like jerry rigging stuff and getting everything put together like we were trying to think like, do we put these desks in here? Do we put them out there? What do we want? And just like When we finally got here as well, we found this room to shoot in and it's just like perfect. like's's nice in It's so sound perfect and all that sort of stuff. So it kind of all fell in place, fell together And it's just It's working out great and putting all the social stuff together and we have plans for things and things fall apart, but then it's like, oh, we think of something better and all that sort stuff. So it's a lot of fun. It's actually been great to watch you guys like work through that stuff and be like, yeah, man, they got toa handle it. I can kind of kick back, focus on this. although I'm not doing that M muchy It'll just happen. It'll be over here in like twenty four hours. so who cares? Yeah Exactly. But no yeah, You know, it does feel like we just did the talk over. now we're doing this and during that talkver, it's like, man, they' world quite a few big games in SGF and, you know, and the Playsttation state of play was also pretty decent, although I thought there were even bigger games in SGF it does feel like the industry is trying to make a little bit of a statement of like, look, we know Everything costs more. We do know that. canan we sort of like make a big loud Three Why this is still a worthy hobby? Do you think they're like getting there? what do you guys make about it Yeah, I mean, showing the big things that we want to see is certainly one of the ways to do that because I think the industry is always better when everyone's firing on all cylinders. And we've seen Indie games being very good for quite a while in Al and Pest. especially on the other side of the pandemic, especially we've heard of like more Indies going into development during that and like that was a way for them get their projects out there It's also scary when the ApleA studios weren't able to do that. Right. It feels like we're on the our side of that now and it feels like we are back in full production, full swing gings, so many of those big announcements like you said. So so yeah, I do think that they they're trying at least to say You know, games are seventy dollars and eighty dollars and our consoles are encroaching a thousand dollars, but we got some good stuff to show you. And it does bring it does invoke that old E three spirit as well, seeing all these games and like back to back and back. I forget exactly why, but we mentioned like the E three of Dreams at one point Yeah and like getting You get a little whiff of that when we see like FF seven Yeah what they call that Revelation? Revelation. That's a bad name. That's a bad They had to start with RE. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. a lot of words that I was hopking about Fantasy seI Revengeance. Yeah, we all were weren't we. When I first started playing rebirth, I thought it was gonna be reunion But then they kept saying the word reunion over and over again. It's like, well it can't be that Yeah be used there for sign too with crrisis C. okay right So yeah They probably are kicking themsel Oh yeah someone somewhere in Square next yeah. How about you willill how you feeling about the vibe coming out at least those two first shows? Yeah, the state of play, I thought was great like seeing what they were cooking on the as someone who's currently reay or not replaying playaying for the first time the original God of War games that sort of original original original the sort of promise of like, oh, this new one's going to have that combat like the original. I was kind of like Are you? Are you? I think it's hard to tell until we play it. Right Eactly. That's where I'm. And I don't want to judge too quick but yeah like Like I was telling you guys, my wife came home during that and I was like, you got a war. and she goes, book yeah. She She's the absolute mark for those Sony games. So she's really excited. But with SGF today It felt like they had something for everyone. So it was like, o, we've got Wolf ammong us for Chuck. We've got the fighting game stuff for Sean We've got Galactic Racer for the Star Wars guys. and we've got all these different things that we're just going to little morsels we're going to throw out. some really cool stuff. We all popped for Resident Evil And it just felt like, hey, we're going to We're going to make the show a roller coaster for everyone and everyone will have different ups and downs and you can just get through it. And I think I think most people most of us came away happy being like, okay, that's the one thing I'm looking forward to. Yeah. I mean it's not like I mean, you know I do the Gameest Mornings news show and like a lot of the news stories can be very gloomy And there's a lot of reasons to be like, hey, there are reasons to be have this sort of shadow the over the industry that we always have to address in almost every store we talk about. but it's not like we're looking around be like, well, it's impossible for this to work for anybody. There are companies that have figured out like Capcom and a handful of others and those are my keys my glasses. It's not like it's impossible. So coming out of this one, it does feel like hey, Capcom was still there multiple times, but in a big way with Veronica and deffinitely proven that Resident evil is this roadmap you can follow. And then you get to the end, you get to Final Fantasy seven Revelation And it's like, okay, that is It does feel like the beginning of them being like, okay this feels like it's coming out manner relatively speaking. It does look like it's kind of following up what they did with the last game and maybe they are going to like like refine that. and they are also going to start following this pattern that Capcom has. Do you think that these big companies are able to maneuver into that? Yeah, because I think the theme that's common with the two things that you just mentioned, maybe I'm forgetting an aspect of this that's going to make me look like an ass But I feel like the theme of both of those Capcom and then what Square Eix is doing with the remake trilogy is smart and sustainable development, where Capcom, they have their own engine now that they it took them a while to get there and it took a while for that engine to get up to snuff in some various technical aspects, but now they can rely on that and that with Resident Evil, they have a formula And they're not making these huge open world games, the everything game, and they're not making live service, this and that. they tried that in the three hundred and sixty era. did not work out. But now They have the ability to put out these games that are fun experiences, you know, depending on the game, maybe like an eight to ten hour experience, like we saw at Pragmata, and then with resesonident evils, maybe a little bit longer than that. But they can follow they and follow templates while still having some incredible art direction and everything. And so they can do that to make sure that these games, even if there's a flow to them, it's the resonident evil, it's a formula, Monster Hunter, it's a formula that they can still remain interesting. And then with FF seven, remake W each successive game, they have a foundation there, like remake, right, started everything and then rebirth took a lot of what was already there and then they made the open world. and now we're seeing with revelation Breath of the Wild, Fortnite, we're skydiving, we're gliding and stuff like that. That wouldn't sustainable to do within like know the three to four years or whatever if they hadn't laid the foundation like that. So I think I think developers are getting smart about that. Yeah They're also getting smarter about waiting to announce and show it until it's a little That's definitely something we're seing a lot of, right? Yeah. No you remember the announcement of remake and even rebirth years until we got it and now we're getting the announcement. it's going to be roughly six to nine months, whatever spring means for them. Right. And then, you know, you compare that to Elder Scroll six that was announced like eight years ago and we still haven't seen So there's just some games where If they just kept it to themselves and like Nintendo is really good at that. they'll announce game and then boom, it's dropped in three I think it's something that like most people prefer at this point. It's, you know, there's Something to be said for industries that are like, hey, here's our roadmap of like films coming out over the next five years. And it's because those the productions on those are pretty predictable. They do have they've had that down to a formula for a very long time And then the software plus art aspect of video games has been so ever changing that actually is always unpredictable. And I think that is one of the things I think you're getting at a little bit where like they have approached it from this template idea while still leaving open room for I mean, this is what I see in the Resident of evvil Games is like, yeah, it's a template. They always feel like they are coming at it with something a little bit fresh each time. And they and that's it's enough ort make it feel like, oh, I' ready to do this again and it feels bigger and more. It's kind of like what Nintendo has sort of always done and why they've been sustainable even through terrible times like the Wi U is because We know what Mario game is, we know as Zelda game is. and then when you have incredible artists on the team making those assets and making each game feel unique and then directors taking it in a different direction you know, you can build that sustainability. Also, that was a thing that I forgot about that made me look like and ass Remay did get entirely rebooted, didn't it? but there was a period where it felt Did they just stop like Is this game really coming out? Yeah 'ause it was like it was like what's five years? Yeah, ' they announced it and then it was under Cyberconnect too, and then that's right wrapped everything. But you know, they did eventually get that game outdoor and that was the template. And there you go. And also shout out to Res and Eil and Capcom because what they are doing with their remakes compred other games remakes is even if you're a huge fan of the original, they're almost entirely new experiences like exactly you can be the biggest fan of RE two play the RE two remake a whole new experience for you. and I think That's one of the reasons everyone's so excited for Veronica And it doesn't feel reheated, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I bought a dream cast for Code Veronica. so I'm actually going a target audience. And that is like I haven't played it since it came out early two thousand, I think, I believe sorry about early two thousand, I believe, but I remember that being a pretty wild globe trotting adventure and that's like something that's very different from a lot of the Resident Evil games, which kind of tend to close to the same couple sets couple of sets and stuff. And so like I'm real curious because it goes into some wild places from what I remember I' I'm excited to kind of see that realized in the new It's interesting because like the whole intro looked completely unfamiliar to me. I don't remember That seems like they're really going deep on much deeper on the story. I mean, I mean, I think it like it's your point, fan of like they make it they make it feel new and fresh by like the Boulder joke is like, hey, that happened after that and the fact that they're looping that back in. It's like, okay, that's cheesy in the way that we want Redident able to be. and it feels like like it rewards you for being a longt timee fan It's a reference to a game that is like on shaky grounds, but it kind of makes me like it a little bit more Yeah,od So they sayode the Resin evvil Veronica better have an infinitely swinging light because they had that in the dreamcast and it was purely just show look at our real time shot up. And then the lamp was like, why is it swinging? It just swings forever. a petal motion machine. And say they better have that in there. make that Powered by ray tracing or something. the of. Yeah. It's powered by AI. to further add to Finn's point I was going to say like with Capcom and Square Enix, it doesn't feel like they were like, o someone hit the remake button. We got We got to make money, hit the remake. likeike they thought it through and were like, how do we make these remakes? How do we make them fun and engaging, change them from what the originals were and make them a good time for even people who have played the originals and make them exciting Yeah, like was was Yeah ye when it's ready. Like square even with their lower budget games like the Dragon Quest one and two remakes where those were completely unrecognizable from the originals like they Capc and Square are t in remakes with a lot of respect and love Fans are responding. Yeah. I mean, like you talked about like Cyberconnect to that version getting scrapped. It does feel like one of the things they were working out when they were like, okay, we are going to do this right now was like we also have to set ourselves up for success in the future. and it is like solving a lot of those problems while simultaneously being like, okay, now how can we figure out remakes? and And, you know, Squareix does have the HD two D that is like one good way of doing that. J justust feels like they need like another tier of that and they're kind of uring that out now Are you Are you all a little like kind of worn out of the HD two D style it's a case by case. all of it case. Yeah'ly case by case. Itust like I recently played the OG Final Fantasy Super Nintendo six again U actuallyctually not I did play I played that a few years ago and then I played the Pixel remaster and I'm like, I really like these pixel remasters. I don't know if I would have liked it as much if it was in a weird This is like a paper mache kind of I don't I don't need HD two D to be like that is one hundred percent of the time the solution we're going to. but I do like it as like an option. like adventures of Elliot. Yeah. Yeah. lookooks pretty sick. I think that looks pretty cool. And I'm like like and that's like an original game. so not a remake, right That' ye that's an original game. Yeahight It comes out in There is a demo, yes,ah a demo just got announced yeah Yes, exactly. Yes. So it's that's a good use in that situation, like kind of do a throwback game and then still do a couple of remakes here and there in that style. I think that can But like you said, the pixel remasters are also Yeah. and also the pixelry matters for me as someone who was there Yeah. a lot of the times for the music because I fell in love with all that music in the Final Fantasy games. L it was cool to play it with not just, you know, slightly better visuals, but with just just completely rearranged music with like that have like live performances and everything in it and it was it was it was a treat. I hope they do more like wouldn't I would love like a Chrono trigger just that. Like reo the music just the same way they did the Final Fany Pixel remasters and just like remaster that game the same This are like Chrono triggers when they're going to They're going to figure out how to approach that when they do w want to bring that back. Do the Just do with they do theirs. I' worked worked already. imagine P of Fantasy seven, I think about. I'm sorry. my mom it's confusing ' I got a couple of. He's got like three mouth. a mouth. There. Oh Oh my go!. Oh my go! Im sweaty am I be honest. All right. a good amount. Like good? Yeah, Re good. Yeah. Like this hot amount. You're glistening. You you got beautiful hat hair.. No, but I feel like I want Chrono trigger to be something like very distinct and like reimagined and like maintain The spirit and story of the game and everything and but I don't know. take a take a Final FantasyvenI swing at. that That's what I want. don I mean, God, I don't think anything ever gets the Final Fantasy seI remake treatment ever again. Oh no I think it's a one time games at a on Yeah. likeike because they because weren't, I mean, you're the de guy. would weren't they like kind of not hitting the numbers that they needed. And so but they're sort of pot committed at this point. I mean, I do think that they like that story could change here now that all of it's out Like that's going to change. also made a very big deal out of saying, hey, it's on everything Yeah everythingverything is to dve got And the third one's gotta hit, I feel. Yeah. Oh in twenty twenty nine, you can get the trilogy. I was going to say a trilogy. Y Exactly. That mean I just noticed you put my head on You're inside me. I always wanting to feel closer to Chuck and this is the closest I could do. Beautiful things happening here on a GB at night presented by Llease wishlist Aliens Fer teeam elite too. Oh, is that why? Oh, that's why Oh, you just showed up like that. Why did you tell people? Yeah All right, Chuck, we we're kind of fans of a game Forbidden solitaire, huh? Yeah, it's got like that retro look. it's referencing a lot of like olderames It's kind of like a weird sort of like Eldrichch mythos. It's a dungeon crawler. Yeah. but you're playing solitaire to go through the different encounters. Yeah, so we kind of we worked on something with the studio there. Do you want to tell people a little bit about it? Yeah They gave us fifty codes to give away to new Giant Bomb preremium subscribers. If you go to giantbomb d. com slash join During this stream, the first fifty people that do that, have we have codes for you. Those guys are so cool. Yeah, it's really nice. Yeah. they we did a quick look together on Forbidden Solitaire and the developer was like, in the comments like pumped about it. That was really cool to see. That game is really special. It's short, sweet. The vibes are off the charts. Yeah, it's got a cool little like story happening in the background that's really fun to explore. But like that sort of thing. it's like yeah, when we like a game and we can like reach out to Dv and like let's make something cool happen and they're ready to play. Yeah. It's awesome. So yeah, if you join now, giantbom dot com slash, join First fifty people, willll stop mentioning this and take any references to it down once it's all gone. But for now they're there, makeake it happen. Go ahead and join, become a premium. If you like the narrative framing around inscription and the story around getting like the floppy disc and like putting that in and playing a weird game This does that and it does it really well. Yeah. It's pretty smart, but yeah Um Chuck, how are you feeling now? Like, it's been like thirty minutes in the suit, it occurred to me that I would make like a face to be like, I have something to add. And I was like, oh, I don't have a face. You don't have a face. I got this. I was like, I screwed up. But no, I feel really good. Honestly, it's kind of cozy. I'm not gonna lie. It's well air conditioned in here. U All right, I' want going to ask you a question, Chuck. You're kind of become like a bit of our giant bomb guru like trying to help us figure out like what we should be doing. like what how are you feeling like How are we doing Like how am I doing Tell me, how was Jeff Grubb doing a Giant Bomb? I think Giant Bomb is doing great. We're so fucking back, baby. Yeah. This is like this weekend kind of marks one year of me working with you guys. feels like very special for me. I think SGeF going forward it will feelcial special for me. Like, you know, we had the flop house, the Warframe villa and everything and I was sleeping on a couch Will keeps complaining about sleeping on a Futan No, it's I he sleeps in Jeffackl'sed, what he room. Je was Jeff was very happy about that. No, I think we've done some incredible stuff over the past year. I'm like, I'm proud of us. Our audience is just like They're trying to send us to the moon and I really appreciate that. And everyone's been very patient with a new website. It's that was only That was only like six months ago. we't put a new website. Aon hot it still is It feels like it's been around forever now, but not at all. And we're adding stuff every single week. I love it. I'm having blessed I knew an A. Room for room Prove. My first day ever. Room for Proving And then will Sean, you guys help us out with social. likeike what the hell is social? Social is a magical place where we get to post things and then u We get views and that sometimes turns into money And that sometimes doesn't turn into money U It's a fun landscape. I really like it. especially with you guys because it's a landscape where I can be like, hey This stuff that's not going to make a quick look or a full video on stuff like the quick one minute, two minute things you guys can grab and turn into something is so much fun. likeike the Mike Pinball video Backlar eating the Asian food market snacks Dan eating the Sourpatch gummies. It was just like, let's just do this stupid stuff and put it out there and and it'll get attention. it'll get it'll do numbers and even if it doesn't do the best things ever, it's like fun to get that brand pushed out there. I think what's like important about what you guys are doing with socials and reels and stuff isn't to do numbers or to like M make money because let's be honest, like shorts and socials like don't make a ton of money. But what they do is like give something for people to share that's bite size so they can introduce their friends to giant bomb contacts. Exactly. That's like the big deal and it's really successful. It feels real and we're not like just putting slop out there to get people to go Yes. it feels Instagram reels. And it's fun to do it and collab with everyone and be like Oh, what do you want to work on? Here's like like your game is minute. It's fun. You come up with the creative stuff like We don't Like you just put something together, send it to me. And if you want me to know something, you put it in the footage to tell me. Yeah I I'm thinking this, toam you're like, Oh, think this. then like five minutes later you'll be like, I did a second take and here's the whole thing. I'm like, okay, I'll go with this one. So it's neat. And then Sean gives me Q A. He's the's the caption king I am ye observving. For some reason I misscations all the time and you nail everything. I'm like, I miss that That's kind of what I do on the production side of things is making sure that like, oh, we miss this thing, we miss that thing and everything. Yeah it's always good like whoever does it to have the extra layer of Just another set of eyes, you know, we always say that with like everything we do, just having our set of eyes on and see like Is this good? Are we doing good? And then like is there anything wrong with this? And so passing it back and forth now with Will on a team being able to work together on stuff like this made it a lot easier. Yeah, I mean, I like the way we're doing it because it's like like yeah, like just handing you the video and stuff. it's like I kind of want to just do more giant bomb stuff and this is another outlet to do stuff that feels very giantomb and you know whether it's talk about old games and retro stuff, which is done allright sometimes. but like again, I kind of don't care how what it does. I just want to do more giant Bomb stuff. And that's what our audience wants. They want us to do our shit. Yeah.actly Yeah, they want to that's the whole thing is like, you know we will say giant Bomb d. com sl' you have become prem member, like, really what you're doing is enabling us to What we do here And we just make that part of it. And and yeah, it kind of feels like You know, if it takes off, we'll figure it out and if it doesn't we'll figure it out. But it is fun to like C up with an idea, try it and then iterate and it is like so rapid. it is fun to like work in that environment. Yeah Yeah. If you watch Game Mess mininute, like you scroll back to when it first started to where it is now. Yeah. We're like, oh, let's change this. I've also noticed the strangest correlation of however small make me ch rub on the very first cold open somehow does better. Yes. just you let Je Gub is what I think is what I'm reading here. We should say Gam is mininute on Instagram. You can just go find that account. That's where they're doing like minute long ish like clips of just B As an outsider, there's a reason so many people were so excited to find out you guys are going independent Right? Like it guys have a community, you have a fan base that wanted to follow you and now they have that opportunity. And it's just not something you see in this industry. With all the bad news we always get bombarded with. it was so cool to have you guys hit that W Game and former right around the same time was able to to come back was cool Yeah. I mean it does feel like, you know, there's Rom in this industry for this stuff to keep happening. and like summer gamefest is like You know, when I talk to people like PR, it often reminds me it's like, o, they need us. Like like their job only exist. likeike there's a completely different group of people that talk to influencers for the most part. And it's like they want us around doing this stuff because it justifies their jobs and And it's like, yeah, there's a symiotic relationship here And u really, you know, works because we can just do stuff our way and that does fit into what they need as well. but yeah. Whenever I was doing influencer or press outreach, like it's people like y'all and everyone else that Without you, no one finds out about your games been Chris, you guys are both from New Orleans, right? This is correct. Is that a cool thing? It's a very cool thing. Well this's some hard hitting. Thank you for that to set them up er veryy hard hitting question. But no when I was I was just like, Hey, I'minn He's like, I'm Chris I'm like, where are you from? He I'm from New Orleans. And then I was like, oh, me too. And then we did the most New Orleans thing ever, which I think was where'd you go to high school? Y. And then we both knew and then I knew exactly where he grew up where I grew up and it's just one of those weird things that u ran into some cool composer guy at Summer Game Fest and turns out we might as well have been neighbors at one point What is it like you're still based in New Orleans I want to say yes, but I live in Florida now. Okay. just that It just hurts to admit that, right? Sure. Right That's you're a trader. I'm from New Orleans. Yeah we could say it, yeah. are these Newrleans pants or Florida pants? These are The best pants ever Yeah first of all. Yeah. I call them my summer Games fest pants. They're just very summery, right? Pretty good. Yeah. It's a good look. They're definitely more Florida thaninitely more Florida. They're definitely Florida coated, You know, I rock them New Orleans. You definitely look like you should be like selling cocaine Miami for sure with those pants on. It's a good l. How do you think I afford to come out? Perfect. Yeah that's I mean, that's how the whole world works. You need a straw like Ealfadora, I think Do you live in Miami? I live in Stain. Pete. Okay, rightight out of town. Are you excited about GTA Florida the game? Yes. Okay. I'm very excited for it to make every other game come out in September Yeah. ye. And that is like some of those games are going to get delayed, right? September games? Yeah. Yeah, I think my money iss still on control, isn't it Is this not just a huge industry overreaction to some extent? Yeah, I mean clearly like, yeah, honestly, I saw what was it Star Wars Glack to Gracer like a couple weeks later in early October. I'm like, yeah, that's great. although I think it might have early access That's in September. One of those early October games does it's like, oh my Godd, that's so stupid Like I personally combatce combat than you. Yes. Like I don't care that much about GTA personally. So like for gamers like me, it's like I I'm annoyed. But what's crazy is like So many of those games pushed out into September don't directly compete with GTA, so they would actually be better off closer to that than being bumped in with every other game that does have the same audience. I feel like Oniush and control have a much closer Venn diagram than control reg I think one of those games going in early November, like the one that does that is gonna like actually be al right. know, there's still a couple of weeks at that point Ton Grand Theft Auto six. Yeah. There are a lot of character action melee games being made and coming out right now. And we're eating Chris. We areasting It's man, a lot of cool games coming out. A lot of cool dudes to talk to. I really appreciate you guys being on this first segment We're going to be back with more giant bomb at night presented by Please wishless Aliens fire team E lead to. So Chuck can finally change. That's right. Now we're not gonna let and they won't do it then. We'll be back with another segment here real quick. We're going take about a ten, fifteen minute break. We'll see you. Hey everybody. I forgot to introduce my co host for the night. I have Thrrody here and his sidekick Gy up there on the lamp. We're going to have quite a good time here at GB at night presented by Please wishlist Aliens Fire Team ellite two. We've been having a good time so far. We're going to keep the fun going with our next panel, our next couch. startarting with my friend, Lucy James, go ahead Lucy, introduce yourself Oh wow, okay. Hi. I'm Lucy James. Oh C host of Summer Game First and founder of lookingooking for gay. W Yeah. Very exciting. I co host of the French for secondcond podcast. Yeah, Thankks, manat. Thanks for throwing that in right at the end. there down the bottom. thirird million. Yeah. Thank you very much. Rough week, okay. Thank you, Liz. My name is Jake Baldino do a lot of the videos on the Game ranks YouTube channel. I created the before You By videos. I also run my own YouTube channel, Jake Baldino, where I just yap about video games. and Friends for Second podcast and future Lucy James Coattails writer. Hwife.. Oongas, ye My name is Ralph, AKA Skill up First and foremost, I am a member of the Fran Per Second podcast. and very proud of. So proud. I will list it first. Okay, that's I'm gonna do. In addition to that, I also have my own YouTube channel, Skill upp U do reviews and news coverage and the like and just last year launched a website thiswkvideogames. com U very lucky to have a team of people working on that. they super talented writers and we do full stack, we do, you know reviews and previews and news coverage and all that sort of stuff. and yeah, very, very happy with it.cellent. That's me I'm Phil Salador. I'm the library director of the Video Game History Foundation. I don't do anything at Summer Games Fest. I'm just kind of here. Oh, that doesn't matter. Yeah. A really. Yeah.. I'm just here in LA for a couple of days, and I'm here for you, Jeff. He, yeah, let's make it happen. Thank you. And I'm Alyisssa Harrison. I'm the head of publishing at Panic. I also don't officially have anything at summer Game Fest ve in LA so I'm around, you know? actuallyually list let's start with you. I'm like Dispelote, Thank goodness you're, right? Yeah. And you guys have a new game coming out here pretty soon, right? Y. Big wal by H house house. Yeah, I'm looking for Ontalu.. Oh my god. No way. That's You Australian. Oh my god I think you know those guys. Well, I don't know them personally. But like we did a playtest with them and And I don't know how many people have playtested this yet But like I still think about that playtest. It was really, really special. Like I'm really looking forward to this game. Yeah. I'm not just saying this because she's here. I pretend no I know for sure. D definitely not. likeike okay. so big walk, you think about it is like Um Like you think it's just friendslop or whatever because you say like, whate I love F friendsop. I me me, great. like, it's not friendslop. It's way more thoughtful and way more interesting. And like it creates all of this beautiful space for you to just like be together with other people and chat with them because like you have to go off like, I don't know, the premise of the game is that you'reort of stuck in the Australian wilderness Really beautiful rendition of the wilderness by the way. likeike they really crushed it And they have these kind of puzzles set up in a way where you have to like climb a mountain and then two people need to stand on a switch or whatever, right? But then you stand on it and you realize, oh, I'm sorry I'm doing thisself Oh, you're doing. I I was so taken. I was so taken with the game when I played it because I played with my team as. So like, yeah, two people stand on a switch and you realize you need this other thing and this other thing is the other side of the valley And so one other person has or two other people have to go get it and they're just like It's a long walk, notothing to do. and you just chat with each other. And it creates this beautiful third space. Totally. And I just loved it so much as I played it. and we weren't allowed to upload any footage, I don't think. During the preview we plan, I was so bummed about it, but it's like Really beautiful And honestly, anyone watching please put her on your radar. Like it's a very special thing. It's like a freaking skill up video.. it was fun to be everyone. Yeah. bled away when you m No. I mean, like I'm obviously still quite biased towards it. But like our games team did a full playthrough of the game and we were all crying at the end which is like a crazy thing for a friend slop adjacent. I refer to it as artisanal friend slop. Sure. brand It's not a host house branded term by the way. It's a cosign, but it is We have nothing but love also for the evolution of the F sllop genre. But Bigwalk is still something that's kind of a little different than that. They've been working on it for a very long time. and it is When did Panic get involved in like tellell me a little bit about that. Yeah, yeah. So a little bit before I joined, and I'm coming up on four years at Panic. Oh wow. So know they've been in development for, I think around six years. It's very much born out of the pandemic. The idea of playing a lot of online games with people that you can't hang out otherwise with, I think, a fairly universal gamer experience, you know And they were looking for something maybe a little bit more curated water. We're all going to draw attention to it and we're gonna move on. I thought youd pe. Yeah, they were just looking for to make the thing that they were missing in that space, which they are so, so good at doing that and just making really curated experiences ike I've been They've been working on for six years, you been involved for about four years. That sounds like a luxury for this kind of game. Is that something because I untitled goose game? Yes, It really is that rare. You have to have one of those games to do something That's kind of a big narrative in the industry right now. The people who have the luxury of that are the people who have already sold a game that was like genre defining in so many ways, which is, you know unfortunate, but they' super happy to be able to do that and make the game that they really want to make at the end, you know. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about like Panic's sort of approach to like finding these partners. It's not like volume, right? You guys really are looking for the right ones? Yeah. yeah. We had a period of volume relative to our team size. Our core publishing team is Currently two people We obviously work with a lot of like really, really great partners. We work very closely with Pop Agenda to do all the things that we cannot do ourselves. But in the last two and a half years, we launched seven games, which we learned was way too many for us. So we're kind of taking a step back and going back to the more like boutique publisher kind of energy and we want to kind of slow down and make sure that we're being as specific and curated about it as possible Actually, tell me a little bit about the division of labor between you and Popaagnda.ike you know, I hear publisher and I don't know anything. too me, it's like there are the people that do everything other than make the game. But it is not that there's like certification that maybe you guys aren't gonna to bother yourself with and Popaagnda can handle that for you or is it more? Specifically, they're super helpful on like marketing and PR because we don't have that really internally at all insane connections that they have that we were happy to take advantage of. And then they also assist with release management, which is just a really technical tedious part of launching a game. And then that leaves the rest of it to us, which is, you know, we handle a lot of like contracts and like finding, you know for thank goodness, I did a side quest of music licensing for months and months and months. and I don't think the devs know how long and how much work went into that. And that's the goal. We don't want them to know that The kind of perspective is like, the publisher exists in my mind to make it so the devs can focus on The making the game part of making a game, the part that they actually got into making games to do and all the other stuff, you know, like I love paperwork. I love Excel spreadheets. Like I'll let me do that. You're the one. Yes. we.. the same. I will make you a beautiful Excel spreadsheet time to let them, you know do the fun part of game development. And why is Despelote so good Julian's a genius. He's brilliant. so. Like I have such a soft spot. I have no favorite child, but I have such a soft spot for Despelot. Like Julian Cordero, the be dev on that was just such a dream to work with. He's just so thoughtful and considerate and like it was his first time really making a game at Sted out as his NYU thesis project So he had kind of ballooned from there as many games do. and he was just so receptive to getting support and like like acknowledging and appreciating the expertise that we have, which is like You don't always get that working with developers. so it's always nice to feel kind of appreciated in relationship. But yeah, and the game is just like that game also makes me cry. Like it's so good. And it's been getting a lot of awards love and that's just always really nice to be getting those flowers like this long after release, you know. It deserves it. Yeah. I'm going off to WWDC because it was nominated for Apple w after this. So like it's just some weird places popping up and showing a lot of love for Desplot. Yeah. It was our website editor it was his Game of the year. He loved it so much. That's special. It's really it's funny that last year was such a great year for like semi autobiographical games. Like we had some really great like cohorts in that area last year. Right the confidence to be like It's okay if it's very specific, it actually that somehow does make it more universal. like Yeah. Yeah. L I have no shared life experience with Willan, but I see myself in that game just the same as other people. I mean it's like you know, I' no shred life experience, but like I had a mom and I remember holding my hand and the game does that better than any game. no other gamess tried that, but. I mean it does it perfect. so ye Bill, How are things going at the video Game History Foundation? It's going great. We just hired a third employee. Oh We're a fundraising head now to help us be sustainable so we don't have to pack five hundred magazines a month. which Thank you, by the way for subscriing. show a mystery box magazine. You you keep sending me those though right? No, yeah you can remain subscribed, but we want to have like sustainable long term funund So we're working on that now. You guys have done a couple of like fundraising attempts. Did you guys was it like, oh man, like that was fun, but it's more difficult and time consuming or what? I mean, we always have like, you know, we deal like a big like winter fundraiser every year and we'll always do different pushes for projects, but it's like we are two previously we were two people. It was Frank running the show, me doing the library, and it's like we would kill ourselves making like multiple hour long videos for the fundraiser Having someone whose job is to like Talk to rich people and say, if we want money, please, like that makes it so much easier for us to do our work too. So we're really excited about having aoney It's next stuff for us. It's great. And then what's on the exciting front of you doing your work? Like I mean you guys are always have like like a million things cooking. So much stuff. I wanted to make sure to mention this one as a bl club person. you will appreciate this. We have a big collection coming in from the former head of sales and marketing at Sunssoft from back in the day. And I was thinking what you were saying, Llyssa, because like so much of that behind the scenes of work just doesn't get captured. It's always about like how the game like the design and not like the sales of it. So this is like Rw sales numbers and marketing strategy. There is a lot about Festters Quest and specifically them being like what the fuck are we gonna to do with Festter' Quest like they realized it was terrible and it's like, we have so much unsold inventory. We have to liquidate this. We're getting like gamely complaints from people about the quality of this game. Did they come up with like a distribution scheme to like put it at every cousin's house? Is that how it got out there? It's sold pretty well. It's sold like two hundred K units, but then it's like They had an additional four hundred thousand that they couldn't move. It was like, what do we do? So they had like Inentory liquidation strategies We have a mock up ad they made that was like, buy Fester' Quest and we will give you ten dollars. like just a picture of a ten dollar bill. It was like, just buy this fucking game, Just get rid of it. So really big collection from a side you don't hear a lot in the industry. I quote Frank that Rita, I get the energy that Rita Zimmer, this former head of Sunsooft was had very like short Italian mom energy. And so it's like it's really cool to see that represented memos and stuff. Yeahes. No, I love that well. howving people' personalities come through that stuff. Yeah. exxactly Yeah Uh, the um, was there anything about like conversation of changing the way the weapons work between the American and the European versions because that drives me crazy to this day. Nothing about the design She came in towards the end. It was really just saying like, hey, our sales numbers were really down last year. What's wrong? And it was like, well, we over projected on NES sales. But also what the fuck was Fester's quest? Like o of their correspondence there's not a lot of like how that even happens in the first place because it's not like Adams family was a going concern when that game came out. No, but it is really funny that like you could tell they loved like the license for it and the original ads were like, it's the first Adams family game By the time it launched, the ads were like, this game's really hard and you're gonna hate this shit. The ads were mean. Yeah It's really cool to see that transition happen in the marketing. That's gonna be fun. You watched that when Mike beat that in one go? Oh yeah, no, that was incredible. That's incredible. Herce an effort. Yes. It was beautiful. Yeah I got to the point where like the last boss fight's kind of mean, but there is a place where you go and chee it and he walked in that spot and he started beating. I'm like, o my o my God, he's gonna do it. And then walked out and I didn't like on Black club you're supposed to suffer And I just didn't have the heartm like, please Mike, J just go back to that spot You'll beat him if you just stand there and he beat it one go. It was Some guys are built different. Yeah. She just does this thing in those games where she just like like the light goes out in his eyes, and he just walks in and wakes up and beat fester. It's terredible. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like it actually. No does it. Anything else happening over at video Game History Foundation? I mean, just always stuff coming in. my job is a box of things comes in and I turn it into a resource. So just a lot of that. We're doing more YouTube stuff. We have a contractor's hand make some more videos that are like Let's tell stories using the collection, which is really fun I'm glad we have someone else doing it because I learned at DaVinci Resolve and I don't want to do that anymore. It's yeah. head shaking happening? Yeah yeah yeah get it. yeah. But othertherwise, no, just continuing to grow more exciting things coming later this year are some surprises for the end of the year, which I'll talk about after we're off the air.. hell yeah. There's always good stuff coming through, but next chapter for us, Re excited. What are those boxes that do come in? What are they like? Is it like o you know what to expect or it really is like, okay, time to roll up the sleeves and dive in and figure out what's in here? It varies. L sometimes we'll go out on a trip where developers' like, hey, I have some stuff and like we'll show up and up and send it back. Other times it'll be someone's like, Hey, I have some old stuff for my company, are you interested? And sometometimes it'll just be like, I have fifty game pros. and sometimes it'll be like, oh, I have the design documents for this very famous game. So it varies a lot on who it is and how much effort they are willing to put into figuring out what it is before comes over. Do you ever get people that are like, I have this, makeake me an offer. Do you ever get people like aggressively? We don't talk to those people. If someone's like, make me an offer, it's like, okay you want to putip this on eay Like occasionally we'll a case where someone's like, I want to sell this on the open market and we're like, we'll scan it for you. We're not gonna to stop. Just know that we're not going to spend twenty thousand dollars on it yeah. Is that does it happen frequently or notot too often, but I think I think we're Well, I mean, there's always this weird relationship between like the collector community and like preservationists where some people, you know see it as an asset, some people see it as, you know history as a resource. Yeah. I think we've gotten good at talking with people who see it maybe as being more of an asset and being like, hey, let us digitize it, let us provide access to it in some form We had a really good one recently. The concept art for Toejam and Earl two came our wayow. And they were like, I wantan to sell this at an auction house. But we were like, hey, let us digitize it first and then go ahead and do that. So that's cool. That's in our library and now it's owned by a private collector somewhere. So that seems like a fair deal If that's gonna to happen, like yeah, let you guys get involved a little bit. That's sweet. Eactly. We're finding a good like middle gind like a normal museum, I think, would not do that. Sure necessarily. So we're good at being scrappy. We're good at showing up with a truck and being like, all right, let's do something about this. Yeah I think the history of collecting games is so commercial, so Like people trying to get in early so they because they pay for college later or whatever. that you kind of have to be scrappy that way. And occasionally, we come, you know this does result in us getting things like a case containing a hundred copies of Shellhock Nam sixty seven, which we recovered from when IDOS's offices in San Francisco shut down. That that B Cub you get that? I don't know, but do you want a hundred copies of Shellhock? Yeah, I do. I'm sorry. Okay. We'll sell it to you at cost. I got it. got it. prettyty busted You guys all came from the show. I mean, for two sides of the show, you guys were probably watching and Hey, R James, the star of the show. How was J? It was amazing. No like I did it last year and last year I was so much more apprehensive about it, just nvous. It was the biggest show I'd ever done before and Other than this, yeah. Well than this one. But no, so, you know, like It sounds like I'm blowing smoke up, everyone's ass, but like As, sorry, I am Bitish I swe. You could say h. He didn't beliepe it, right? Yeah. But like team that Jeff has behind the scenes at Summer Game Fest is they are inc readable. And so I felt like going in I was like, I know I'm going to be with Erica and you know, like everything like I know where I'm going to be and I know that I'm going to be takaking care of by Kimmy or Cole, whoever. and like Going in this year, I was like, okay, I did it before. It was fine. I know I'm not going to fall over. I might fall over Um And yesterday we had the rehearsal and I was like, oh, I know the I know the shows are real good. Yeah I had like a lot of confidence going in. And this year, especially I had so many cool World preremiereers which was awesome and it was just yeah, it was a really I felt it was a really good show. Yeah. You tell me you guys were watching in the audience. It was good. I think you' hosting talk to you that that'sest thing I've ever seen. That's right. That totally agree. No, But joes aside, I think actually Jeff put on a really good show overall, you know, like there's always sol hamstring of like what games are available, right? like Yeah.'s. can't do ton but somehow I think I think's H hit a chord where it's like P peopleople are ready to show these games. they do go to him. They do. they do definitely. And I think you because I think he had so much to show, he just cut back a lot of the other stuff that can kind of bloat the show. you know what I mean? Like there were very few kind of Gatcha game commercials or whatever or other non endemic commercials oratever. That's a bit of it a fair enough. likeike's got to pay the bills and I've never begrudged him that, but I just feel like he got the balance totally right. Yeah. The show felt brisk as well Yeah. because sometimes these things go on and you're like, come on, Jeff, wrap it up, buddy. But this one, I think it was like a solid one hour, fifty minutes and we were done or something. No it was two't feel that That's I' saying because as like some of the It was like you said, it was just really We got the final fantasy at like now we're in forty five. there was like a long period of final fantas like it does feel very fast. So I think you kind of nailed that overall pacing of it, which again, is that's pretty hard to do in his business, I think. Yeah absolutely. It started so strong but it was like Oh my God Veronica was such a mic drop. Yeah Yeah Chin Atlas and there was several good games where Aliens alien isolation too. Stightdam? Yeah, yes. Amsterdam. A weird hex game actually Hax. We' talkking about Hx all night. Yeah. Come on down to H timeax But no, like there was just so many cool things and you know, like, The sound in the room when Wolf among us two came back That was a little bit hard to pick up on string. People weres. It seemed like joked about Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's right. You did actually like respond a little bit. I was like, o, yeah, becausecause like crowd cheered when you started talking about it Um Is the team over there like really as big as I imagine it to be like it just seems like such a machine I mean it's an eleg It's such a well oiled machine. Like there was there was a lot of people who work there obviously behind the scenes to make sure that talent get to where they need to be, you know, checking everyone in, hair, makeup U But everyone as well because it's the same it was the same team mostly that I worked with last year and so kind of Everyone's just really Everyone knows their job. Everyone knows what we have to do. Everyone does it really, really well. Everyone is so welcoming. And like I said, it was the biggest thing that I'd ever done my in my career last year. And so I was like, h they're gonna see right through me. They'll know I'm a fraud. everyone is so Not yet, Lucy., that day is coming. Yeah. it is not today. Your time is. But no, they are wonderful. And so yeah, it was it's such a fun show to work.'s my point I was watching the showm like, there's just too many games. It's hard for me to find like what to play. like I really don't I'm lost. You't as much a problem. This guy right I don't think They should make a thing. Yeah... I quit my job Wh you cheer for that or not?. Hey, I was a Game swell for twelve years, but that was out of a run, by the way. Yeselvegin. Yes, abbsolutely. for real No, it's looking for dot games. didid I get it right? Yeah, that's game. Yeah. It's okay. Just tell people like about the idea. I really like this. Thank you. So I mean I realized over the last couple of years that like obviously I would love, you know your average ApleA. you know, we talk about them all the time on the podcast, but really where I have found the most joy have been in those strange little stories or strange little games that don't really get as much picku up and I greatreat space to talk about them on F friendriends per second. I could talk about them on Gamameesot for sure, but like on FS in particular, I would talk about weir games like Anne Roger, even like thank goodness you're here, you know, I would talk about them and people would be like, oh my god, I'm so thankful that Lucy talked about this because otherwise I never would have found it. And then I realized that, oh wow, there are There is an audience of people who just want the weird little games like me, like the weird stories. the things that aren't really You know, no shade to Ubisoft, but, you know, like No I don't want to do a big whole open world thing. I don't want to be taking stuff off a list I want to have an amazing, unique experience that I can only get with games. and I realize that as I've gotten older, I've been gravitating wayay towards those. Yeah And so I to Jeff basically, I was like, hey, what if, you know There are thousands of games that come out. What if we had like some kind of newsletter, some kind of way to curate them and just take them straight to the audience that we know wants to So Jeff and I talked about it We partnered with First Look and playayed.GG build out that newsletter functionality because they work with studios and developers in play testing and then It just made It was just like, hey, we'll They can use letter and people who are into that will sign up and we can send demos straight to them. And. it's exllent. So like people to Looking forot games they sign up for the newsletter, shows up the inbox. Y So we have an extended exclusive demo for Wish uppon Alllama today Um There will be functionality, which means that you'll just get the key straight to your email. This whole thing came together very, very quickly.. And so I do want to say like played our G team. incredible. Like I will just say to them like, Hey guys, it'd be nice if I could do this and then like half an hour like tech., they'll be like, hey, you know know' they're amazing. And like they understand games, they understand gamers and it's just It's been such a wonderful partnership. And like working with Jeff too,'s just like Hey, I need this Do you know how to do this and he'll And it's great. And so it's something that I've been really passionate about obviously like leaving a full time job To do something for yourself is a very scary big step. At least we get free health care here, so you don't worry about that or anything like that Yeah, if I ever fly back to the UK, it's you got to let No, but you know, it's like couldn't And I've just been so you know, I've only really had a week of doing it full time, but I was like, oh, I get to set my own schedule and I get to have meetings and with these people and talk about projects. already seeing and playing so many All games that I can't wait to talk about. it's just reinvigorated me so much. Yeah. I mean, and it was like when I heard about it, my Lucy's perfect for this. I mean, the relationships you have with people in the industry, like just your ability to like to talk to these people kind of get like like at their games and stuff like that. I'm like, oh yeah this will be a great sort of facilitator for that. So I'm looking forward to it Perfect f it is. Who discovered Vampire sururvivors? Like you were the one being like I played this weird fucking game And I was like, how did you find this?,. And then look what happened with Vampire sururvivors. was like, so it's like a she in for you're doing now. Taght about thatrandft auto Yeah think finds a niche indie J. F staro something? bab ill if you started a website, why would you do such a thing? No a ridiculous idea Uh no, I yeah, we started a website last year. Purely because and I don't mean any disrespect to websites. I truly don't, though, because the reality is that many of the frustrating things about websites that we don't like in particular and pop ups and sponsored articles and whatever else You know, the people who write for these websites, they don't like it either. You know what I mean? It's not to do with.' p in the ass, right? It's just the realities of that business model. And for us as consumers, it sucks because a lot of the time I'm like reading an artle on XY andZ and my phone is like literally blowing up with ads. You know what I mean? I just I can't do it, right? So I was like, well, there should just be a website doesn't have any of that stilluff. you know what I mean? And that was honestly, I mean, there were quite a few factors because obviously, you know, I definitely saw the games media landscape shrinking. and I saw a lot of my friends, very talented people losing their jobs and I'm like That sucks There is demand for your work. It's just that those business models don't really make sense or work, but we could try and do it another way. And obviously I saw these own personal frustrations with what it's like to be on a website and what I would like from a website. I think, well, this should exist, you know And I was also lucky to have a few people in Australia around me to this you could do it together. You know what I mean? So I was very fortunate Edmund Tran He's the former former Gpot actually. Yeah. And and he, you know, generously agreed to join and lead the initiative. And so he had the right leadership for it We worked with a really talented design agency and it took like more than a year to build, but we've just like really nailed down the design And yeah, we now have a website that is one hundred percent ad free, no AI, no SEO optimization in terms of like, we're not writing articles to wride to hit the agg would be the point. Yeah. It doesn't matter because that sounds so good to me. You know what I mean? like all it is is because we have we have most of our content is free opinion and feature stuff is behind the paywall You know, there's a monthly fee that's it, you know. So when someone worth every penn. Thank you very much. That's it g. So when someone goes to the website, like what do you want them to like see like what do you want them to feel? I really just want The whole team and whenever I say I, I'm always talking, you know, with in concert with the team because they're the ones that lead it by the way. likeike I focus on the channel. they're the ones that do the work on the site and they do incredible work. But we really just want to create a place where you know you can go to that place And you're just going to get good clean news coverage Yeah without any ads or bullshit. And it's just like, cool, you're to know what's going on in the industry. and we're not looking to pump out fifty articles a day. We're going to do like six or seven and we're just going to cover the most important things in an industry. You know what I mean? And thanks, man Thank you for that, Jck. That was very. that was great. It was good.. And so And in addition to that, you know, we also wanted to have that kind of like, again, full stack thing because we know there's a lot of really great websites that are operating right now that are very focused on kind of opinion You know, like we love aftermath, for example, and read them all the time. and we value that a lot. but we also like, what we would also like to do, as I said, more of that review stuff. And we'd also like to provide a release calendar. And we do want it to be that sort of broader offering where it feels like you could get a lot of what you need. rather than just like the opinion stuff, you know, Having said that, we also have the opinion stuff and we have features and deep dives and interviews with developers and all that sort of thing. So we again, it's Full stack I've used that word multiple times, but that's what we're trying to do. Yeah. And it's working ' we now have three full time staff and we've just hired a fourth part time person. So yeah, it's working. We'd like to scale up the team a little bit more No plans to get big. like we want to keep it tight because you should grow infinitely forever. It full of very good Yeah. That's it. keep making it. Why didn't just need that? Yeah. I will give that some consideration. yeep. No, but No, I mean, the goal we've always said is just to keep a very smaller boutique and like, you know, and that's working for us so far. you know, Yeah. I mean, it does feel like, I mean, it's Obviously the big platforms that took over the interternet are still are still there, but it does feel like people are kind of retreating to smaller spaces a little bit. justust giving them ground to go to is kind of we're trying to do a giant bomb just like a little bit of ground to go to where you can get away from that if you still want a home on the interternet, which I don't blame you if you don't. But if you do, we're here for you. It just I think that's such a noble thing. I just think is I just think realistically We went through this phase where the internet was human And then it stopped being human and it started being algorithmic. Yeah. And now we're like it's's defragmenting again and it's going back to being human. And so you're going to sign up to a newsletter, you know, curated by Lucy about like game disiscovery. and you're going to listen to you guys because people love you and they love your content and they're going to pay you, you know, come my mom does listen. Yeah. That's right. And they love your content and they're going to pay because they value you as a person. You know what I mean? And I think obviously the YouTube ecosystem is its own thing similar to that where it's like you cling onto personalities and their perspectives But I also think when it comes to like the written word, there is still a space like that to exist for the written word, where there's writers that you follow and there's websites that you like frequenting because you know that it's written by actual people who are not trying to follow like the algorithmic waves, you know what I mean? I'm betndting long on that because I think it's only going to get worse with the AI stuff, you know I don' Jake like kind of speaking of following algorithms, you have your personal channel too where it feels like you kind of like just talk about what you want to talk about and how it works. Yeah, it's been good so far. It's been fun to really just kind of lean into that, like Game ranks, like the team like we have it figured out. We love what we do. We're like a well oiled machine But then we all work on other things. And so for me, yeah, I just yap about games even more on my channel and it's been good. It' been cool. It really does just feel like something really tickles your fancy or something you really love. You could just go in there and say exactly how you feel about it and people like want to hear that. Yeah, I still like with my channel, I've started to learn to like play the game again with like title thumbnail. I click on this, click on this, but I make sure that like When you get into the video, it's still the same exact content I've been making for like twelve, thirteen years now, where I'm just talking about stuff I like Because I can't force it. Like if I'm talking about a game, I don't give a shit about it, it's hard to Oh ye And people feel it. Pe realize that. I watched I watched it before you buys like that I could tell like a short video. I'm like, yeah, it's fine, whatever Yeah. The Bond hit though, right? You enjoyed Bond? Yeah, yeah was that was a big one for me personally. It was great for the channel too Um, Just a really fun time and then to see it at SGF, getting a little extra content. Yeah featuring the worst guy in the game. not this I'm glad you said it man, I'm glad you charac' say Bama, Bama Bve Ba B Ba. Bamma is back or whatever they'. No, no, don't You don't want that. Like the do the theme song Yeah right. All right. Like I'd rather you do that Or let' just be featured on her or something. look left is a good level, though. Not that against Lenny other than when he cheated on Lisa Bonet or whatever, but yeah that's so crazy. Yeah.' not to get there anymore, right? Is that right? alleged Oh that's my that's throaty Oh yeah. Can I touch it? Yeah, touch throat please wor I'm worried about goad It's more to be the thing I say the most tonight. Touch thirty get Dy Touch thirty get Dizzy here at Giant Bom. We are Sorry. we are gonna if people get see Nki's behind the camera, give me a thumbs down, which I know means I'm onto something. We're going to wrap up this panel. We gott to get to Moo here tonight. I can't wait. This was great. Thank you all so much. Thank. I really legitimately love seeing all of you. It's the best. We'll be back with Mre here very soon Giant bomb at night presented by Please Wish list, Alien Fire Team Elite two. We'll be right back You can't do it work, it's inapppriate All right, we' hg face hug later. o hello everybody. Welcome back to GB at Night presented by Please Wishlist Aliens, Fire Team Elite two. We got a new panel going tonight. I'm Jeff Grub. Let's get right into it with Rihanna. Go ahead and introdce yourself. Hi. I'm Rhna Manuel Penya and one half of DNR Media Consulting sometimes co hosts of Gamer Tag radio All right, Danny Penya also or D and R Media consonsultant and P part of Gamer Tag radio. Hi, I'm Nick. I am one half of Turbo button here tonight Uh That's it. I'm John Warren. I'm the host of the VGBs podcast and owner of VGBs dot com B. I Parris Lillily, I am a part of Gamer Tag Radio and part time contributor to kindind of Funny Games. I'm Holden. I'm the other half of Turb Bututton here tonight. Holden, Nick you guys announced the game tonight. How'd that go? That's right. Today in the dayay of the Dead S showowcase we anounce Slap outut of it, ourur slap andsallved addventure game And we don't really know how it's going. We've been here. But hopefully it's going well. How's the game going? tellell me about it. Yeah we were busy de so I've not seen it G sureure. So it's a comedy slap and fall adventure game. You can kind of think of it as if the untitled goose got lost on Wkey Island It's a first person slap stick comedy sandbox with a lot of lateral thinking puzzles inspired by pointint and cllick Adventures Very cool. Yeahes, so Getting that day the devs, how does that usually go down? We submit our game when they when they put out a call and we cross our fingers. But we're very, very happy to have been included. and it's been a great experience. They go through a lot of work to promote games like ours and you know, to have the opportunity to be there is just awesome What do you guys like do on the game day to today,ike I'm so ignorant on this stuff. J go ahead and like illuminate that a little bit U, yeah, it's a lot of u slapping things for sure. There's a lot of testing that goes on with that. But yeah, I work on A lot of the design for like all the puzzles and things like that. I'm also a lot of gameplay programming as well. Those two kind of like married together and trying to like make the game feel good, you know, make everything feel Flppable is kind of the main goal there I do the a bit of the design, bit of the programming, I do the sound design. run the business side of T button. Our studio is a four person team, so we between Nick and I, we do everything except the art pretty much. I'm not a little bit of art. A little bit of art, but you have to wear a lot of hats. Yeah ye You said you might like like you might have been joking, but like spend a lot of your day like slapping stuff. L how important was it to get the slapping right Oh, I mean that that was key. It did take us a while. I mean, like at first, honestly we we put slapping in and we're like, o I don't know if this really works yet, you know, like it didn't really have the right like impact, the right snap, the right feel, you know. There's obviously like a lot that goes into like making every object feel unique to hit because it' it's not even just about like How does it how does it feel? but like how does it react in a like surprising way? So when you walk up to it, it's like, oh, I might think it will react one way when I hit it. and when it doesn't react that way and does something else. it's fununnier and more surprising, right? You'll hear like, you know, devs of shooters like talk about their gun feel in their games and like we spend a lot of time on our slat field.ie. Yeah. it is it important to have like restraints or like talked about like maybe a surprising reaction. L for me I would be like everything's going to be just clown Bzo stuff. No matter what I headit, it's going something weird's going to happen. Is it like is there like sort of a thinking like a u We want to like make sure it happens at a certain cadence so that the slaps feel special Yeah, everything like there's kind of like different layers of of reactivity, right? Some things just kind of like bounce and move around and it just feels more tactile, right U, but then there's kind of the extra layer of Uh things especially with characters because like all of our characters are interactive as well Um And so seeing them react in different ways depending on where you slap them, you know, in the face, on the butt, whatever. Uh, you know, them reacting in different ways. and then there's kind of like the like S tier of things where, you know, I don't want to like spoil anything, I guess. It's like a lot of really like hidden weird jokes and things. that we spend like way too much I'm designing just for like that one moment to really make you laugh So yeah, we kind of try to fill levels with all those different ters of things and like I think when you run through, you're probably only finding like maybe thirty percent at a time. So we're just like trying to fill it with as much stuff as possible so that different people are seeing different things. You guys used the term slap and solve. Did it take a while to come across that term or was that like day one? likeike what I think it was pretty quick. I mean, we've always been inspired by pointo and clicks and once we landed on slapping is like the primary mechanic. it came pretty naturally. So Um yeah, I mean, we're really focused on making it a satisfying comedy sandbox where u You know, and anyt timee I guess if you think about it from the point and click perspective, anytim you're doing something that's not part of puzle solut, it's going to be funny or' satisfying becausecause's that's the comedyandback side, right But um then the the slap and soolve is really like you gather information by slapping things. So yeah And like having that like one main point of interaction, does that like also like sort of contain you guys and force you to be creative Yeah, I mean, it really does. I think like Honestly, it keeps us a little more sane because like we already T of go Crazy and pretty deep with like everything that that you touch. And so keeping it all constrained to that makes it so that we can actually release the game at some point Um, That's important. Yeah, it's a little important. U But yeah, I think it's like it's been a really good constraint just because like Um I don't know, like I guess in some ways, that constraint has really helped focus a lot of our like brainstorming and stuff. It's actually made it A little more like a writer's room I guess, where we're all just like tossing things around and it's like because we have that one interaction, we can really just kind of focus on, well what does that thing do when it slaps or when you slap when it slaps hopeull it slaps when you slap. R. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly.. I was playing that Mortal combat collection recently and they have the moment when Ed Boon comes up with the idea of like the scorpion get over here thing. And I was like, I'm like, Ohh my god's games should be. It's like they were just on set and he's like, you know what would be cool. And it's like then they like just talk it out is there like a lot of that where it can be that serendipitous of like in the moment you're like Hey, this could be cool and then you run to go test it out or what Absolutely. I mean, I think like the most dangerous phrase in our development process that leads to the best things is, wouldn't it be dumb if? Yeah. And you know, and then we spend a lot of time chasing that down. And usually the answer is, yes, it's very dumb, but it's also like those things like become like our North star in a lot of ways. We're making a very dumb game. we're proud of that. Yeah. and we want U we want to make sure that This is something that encourages players to like behave in dumb ways when they're playing it, right? So we have to you know, try to check all those boxes for them with u with all the different slappables and all the different ways they might think about playing around in the sandbox John, what do you think the market is for dumb games these days? I think it's I think it's good. Yeah I think I think it's a good market because I've played a few really good comedy games over the past few years and reallyally memorable experiences. Thank goodness you're here is one of my favorite games of recent Recent memory And, you know Today's showcase was full of interestnteresting stuff. We'll talk about it, I'm sure, but you know Same kind of, you know, cut a guy's head off and You know, fight through your the people killed your family and, you know, it's like, So I like Lvity. I like Lvity. I like Lvity It's fun to And it's also difficult. I mean, it's like I think comedy in games is one of those things that is actually rarely accomplished truly U and that element of surprise has to be so emergent difficult to thread that needle. And so When people go for a comedy game and it actually works, it's special. I think's going to VGB' Good. I mean, two years today, I think is when we started. was kind anniversary. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, Nikki Grayson and I am my favorite person in the world. We've been running out for two years Brought another co host named Lotus last year Um, we're having a blast. We uh I tried to join our coost stream from the theater today didid not work out very well. The signal in the Dolby Theater not great but we're having a good time. So it's a growing little show It's independent media. Yeah, you know, G to do it. I mean, like at this point, it's like having an excuse to kind of keep getting together with people to talk about games. That's cool. But also I think people are still searching for that Yeah. I mean, I think people are are searching for partarts of what they what they want to hear from games critics and games analysts that they're maybe not hearing from most mainstream sources, whether that's diversity of voice or whether that is diversity of thought And I think people are still looking for it. so I don't think this any movement is going to die down. I think it's going to get stronger Um there is a lot of stuff to choose from. U I think people have been smart to try to consolidate some of these things and fun little packages at various points. we might see more of that, but Um, yeah, I still think independent media is Super vital to support and maybe more than ever. So Yeah We were talking talking last night and you said I'm maybe this will put you on maybe you don't want to talk about it. Yeahah like you guys got the hat's reputation. and have a h rep. I deeply love this. L Whenever like my appreciation for Kaku and we grew over the years as they were just like, we don't care. We're still going to put up the headlines that're going to make you mad Yeah. And I'm like hell yes, that is like we need that. let's get those conversations going. And the weirdos are going to be weird about it.. But like it doesn't deter you, right Yeah, we're we're not like weasels, you know, but it's like we We hold a mirror up as much as we can and then go, hey, listen It's it's a good example is maybe Xbox. like it's cool that they're busting up shop and doing some new stuff. Sounds like Asha Sarman's about to lay off a thousand people. Yeah actually. Yeah. Sounds like we're headed into kind of the same Bullshit with that company that's that's been there. And so I don't see the g It's hard to understand. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, you know, you give the keys to Todd Howard an Obsidian sitting right there. I don't know. There's stuff that happens there and it's Sony and everywhere else that tex is me and I I don't feel like I know people talk about it. Um I think the medium of games of like the art of it is in a great place. Like peopleople are making amazing stuff. even in their AAA space, like that new bond game Nix ass. Yeah. you know, it's like that's a cool game. And can talk about comedy and improv. like it's there's a lot of that in that too. So I think we're still in a place where people want to make good art and I just want it to be a thing that people can keep doing without looking over their shoulder every eighteen months and going, well, now I'm on my ass again. Right. And you know, I just I have a very, um I'm not a cynic But I am cynical about some things that are happening. R. And so U I'm trying to lean into that embrace my Ebrace my hater vibes. While acknowledging that pling video, he is one of my favorite things in the world to do So ye. And like it is you mentioned like even the AA' in a good spot like like about like Star Wars where it's like they stopp makingar I'm hugear Wars fan. make Star Wars movies and only make games. I think they'll be better. They're making burnout. Yes, rightight? They're making It just burnout. Star Wars. And it's like better. showed that guy running a guy into the rocks and I was like, that's fucking burnout It is the burn it's exper out people make it. I'm super excited about it. And it's like that kind of thing where it's like oh this' the same thing with Bond where u You know, they're trying to figure out what the future of Bond iss going to be right now on the movie side and that's complicated for whatever reason. I don't care what it is, but like when like the game exists it's like it's straddling all these lines of being classic like hokey Bond while also still feeling very modern, somehow also being kind of sexy in a way that's like I How are gamess doing this?'s super confident about it Games have sort of figured out and I do think it comes down to like people who have been able to survive, not that anyone who didn't, like I don't blame anyone for getting out of this unstable industry and leaving it behind. But the people that are still here, it's all these very talented senior developers that completely understand all these or like have had these ideas and now that they They've also seen the mismanagement and they probably understand not that that game wasn't two hundred million dollars, it was Right. Yeah. But it's like they figured they made the most of it. Yeah, they made the most of it.''s studio published Mind's eye. They needed to win. They needed a win What would Mindsye that hitman three that funny wins in a row. And ask a question please. And I want to ask you this question. please. because you were kind of going down this road because this is something that I'm actually passionate about because I'm very concerned for this industry to be honest with you Do you think B. inssane amount of games that we see are coming out in September of twenty twenty six. Is that irresponsible Well, I think it's I think getting out the way of grand theft Auto six is such a myth. Like it's such a bullshit. It feels like it right now Isn't it stupid.ike is shelf space Yes. Like Jeff was on stage they going like it's actually not a problem that ninety five thousand ninety five hundred games came out last year. Actually Jeff, I think it is a problem. but I think there there is a weird thing where people get out of the way of something so massive They just assume the g like not everybody on eararth is going to be doing that. Its suchuch a missed opportunityter programing. have your barbec. I don't why I'm asking the question To me, you're doing it because you're trying to get out of this big pop cultural event that is Grand The Auto six But you're just running and creating the problem all over again by stacking all these games on top of each other because I will admit and I won't say them by name, there's about three or four games that are coming out in September that I'm very concerned for And it's not just like September. It's September like twenty fourth and October October two October. I think it's a good question. and like to me being back in LA traffic It reminds me of going Okay, I'm on I'm on I'm on this highway G got this backed up. All right, I'm gonna exit. Everybody's got the same fucking idea, don't they Right Oh. We're all going to get log jammed. And so there's going to be this weird period between September and whenever the fuckrand theft Auto eventually comes out. We think it'll be it's november nineteenth'say allg think it will And it's like what is that period going to look like for I think the average player If you came out november seventh Right now. does that feel that much different than september twenty firstth?? I mean, it's still a week away great. Yeah, great that Yeah. I mean it's embarrassly When you see this, that log jam, like what do you think I tweeted it. I go can I curse on here? A you're only allowed to curse. You've not been cursing enough. I've been meing That ship is isking insane. Yeah. That's what I said. This is Watererline irresponsible to put all these games out jam them into the thirty day period because I call it the Titan Fall two effect where you're you're going have you're going to have games that are really good. They're going to score very high And no one's going to buy them because you've already bought the blood of Don Walker or you're waiting on control or Wolverine or whatever. and you're going to miss these other games in that window then what's going to happen where you were alluding to Layoffs Studios closing. It's but to be fair. A lot of those studios, they don't know what other series releaseed they. It just feel like it' like in for a couple of delays. Yeah Yeah. But I think now that they announce now they're like, oh, damn what what thell are we going to do now? likeike I think they're just going to stick with the play Yeah I hope someone blinks and moves. Well I hope several of them do. And to your point If they do, that becomes a newsbeat. It's like, oh, there's something else to play in October. Thankfully.. Like now we can actually spread out our gameplay reviews and like get more people excited for this because it's a breath of fresh air between this huge log jam and this titan that is Grand Theft Auto. I mean, people it it's not like It happens where like a game getsnounced and they're coming out the same day as some other ges And so everyone's like, well I'm going to play that game and I'll never think about that other game Everyone just goes, I'll just save some money and I'll wait for that to go on sale And people don't do just need the tiniest reason to save money. So it's like if I'm already playing a game, I will just put that on the back burner. And then sometimes it does get forgotten, but then sometimes you just make less money because you sell it at a reduced cost later And it's just I don't know if there's like any perfect solution here, but clearly, I think we are going to watch a lot of these games got nuts mostly at the Playstation state play because there weren't T many more. there was like one or two more today that got in that September October period. But there's already enough where some are just going to have to move. But here's the thing. we didn't even know what Xboxight. No, it was don't And that direct probably is happening in next week is going to be even more. Yeah. ye.. But like, I don't know if well like Crol Rident moved in early November, I think that would be much better for that game right now because it just feels like that game's in a lot like not a lot of trouble. I don't know, but it just feels like it would do so much better getting away from all those other games because like there's a certain kind of player that's going to buy Grand Theft Auto And it's everybody for the most part And it's like, you can't compete with that in any way. so don't think that you're competing with it Right? I mean, is that is that Is it that simple? There's a Barbenheimer opportunity there and I feel like like it takes a certain type of game, maybe a comedy puzzle solving game. Exactly I could find a really moment say like is GTA too much for you or is your sister hogging it? like, okay, play this while you're waiting. What aren't we thinking about guys? when you guys hear this conversation for people on the outside and you guys are thinking about timing your game or whatever What are we missing? What conversations do you have about these sorts of things I think that there's Certainly we've had conversations, you know, about everybody avoiding GTAs You know window U I mean, even like other games like smaller games, whatever, like any sort of game that you like trying to find your window Yeah I think that Something we've seen just just even like this year, it's been really clear that you cannot predict when there's going to be a good window because there are always going to be like there multle weeks every month hundred games going But there's there's always like multiple weeks every single month where there is an a hit that's you know, supposedly unexpected, right? You know, by I most people who wouldn't show up on your radar if you were trying to plan something six months out It might be more obvious like a month out, but by that time, you know, it's not as helpful for planning at all. so Um think they You know, you We're really just trying to focus on builduilding up, you know, some of our community, making people sure making sure that people know about our game at least ahead of time Um and And then knowing that we're not really competing with the genre or like the specific audience or like desire to like play some of those other kinds of games and certainly can be complimentary to a lot of them. But I think that like regardless of when a game is releasing, the biggest problem that Our industry has right now is that people can't afford premium games. Yes. Let's talk about that That's a lot scarier to us than any particular release date, honestly. as a small studio. evenven when we can be a lot lower on the price than a lot of AA games, and and we don't know exactly where we're going to price yet. I'm sure it will be less than GTA But it's, you know, it's u It's just something that is really challenging to navigate about You know, we, we want as manable as possible to be able to play our game att some point, it's unclear if like lowering the price actually helps that realistically. likeike we're talking like, you know, the difference between thirty and forty or twenty and thirty, likeike that might not actually matter to most people because they don't even have this twenty Yeah and that's that's the reality today. It's, um It's very challenging and difficult. Yeah. Yeah, there was a relatively large sell off on the trading markets today and everyone's trying to pinpoint what it is. and it's like McDonald's and all these other companies are all say in the same thing consumers are out of money. Yeah. And it's like they had not been saying that up until this week with the earnings reports this week and And it's like we knew it was going to happen eventually. Credit card bills are getting higher for people. and it's like that's going going to hit a wall And it's we just don't what it looks like on the other side of this. and it's not like There's relief coming So yeah, it it Reopen the Strait of Hermz any moment now. We're going to get a univers really reason really reasonable people that are coming to the rescue. Yeah. No you know what they coming. And I get that part, but also I feel like a lot of us are going after the same crowd, the same group of people I think it's time for us to figure out Grendafado, of course is going to get a lot of people are not gamers they just going to buy because Greantiffado I think we also have to figure out a way how to get the new crowd that are not our listening to Gimmmer Tag radio or watching your show. How can we convince them to also buy a game? Yeah, just like Mbe it's like you just got to make the party cool. Like it just has to be cool and then they want to come in. like and that's all we can control, right? Yeah. I think it's all about communication, man. You know, like that's something that R and I've been talking to a lot of studios is about the messaging. how can we get a new group of people. to buy your product. But ye, about what I agree. Y the problem is, which is what we've been alluding to is Okay, let's say I'm not a quote unquote gamer and I've not bought hardware in a while You can you cannot afford to buy an Xbox or a PlayStation or build a PC right now. I mean, even if you could does it feel responsible And that's the point. Yeah. That's not responsible. That's a different conversation of course. Yeah. But what about if they do have like, I don't know w to or An older console like third party commercial that we saw in the middle of the show It is going to be exciting for a lot of people Exactly a a lot of families.ike you know how many people gonna play all those third party games for the first time because they don't have an Xox, they don't have a placeation five. So lookook, Nintendo's really pushing that hard. You noticice during the summer game Fest. And I think we're going to get to see a lotoud more conversation of Nintendo pushing third party content from a Switch too, you know? so yeah, but running a very different r. You cant afford to buy a five hundred dollars swwitch too. Yeah, I mean, five hundred dollars is so expensive. But I mean, look, I mean, this is something about I know you mentioned about Xbox, sorry to the mike by like Xbox series S is a very cheap con so compared to everything else now I know they're not promoting that. That's something I'm like, takeake advantage of that I think they se a number hold your prices. I. I think they see the telemetry and they're like that's the story we tell on that. peopleeople like go, okay first of all, I know I'm getting the less powerful thing and I understand that that doesn't feel good. And like you would it's like we can tell people it doesn't matter. Most games are going to run fine on there. You're not going to notice. But people just don't like the way that feels. And then it's not like Well that and then you're done, you still to buy all the games and they're also getting more expensive for the I mean, the ones that like that you see on TV or whatever whenever a commercial does run, I don't It feels as gloomy as it kind of can right now for a lot of this stuff. But here's the thing though, and I apologize There's been multiple games this year that's been selling a lot. Yeah. So what is what is what is is? demand is still there. I mean, yeah like we saw like when the prices on these consoles did go up the week before they the prices got enacted The Csole sold a ton because people oh, I actually really do want this. And the hardware was already expensive U And so the demand is there, but it's like We keep trying to see where the line is and it's like that's just not the recipe for growth. I think people are being more selected than ever on what they're going to spend their money on. And that's why I' I'm glad to see a game like meo the Holler Che Wait twenty bucks. Make it make it easy accessible for everybody Look, and I had this conversation with somebody at an event Look, I grew up in an era where I couldn't afford multiple counils. I was techning you poor, I guess, right But it wasn't technically. Well yeah. But you know what I'm saying like it was hard for me to buy everything, right Make it easy for people that can't afford these games, makeake it cheaper or I think that will create a good buzz having a good price. It will create news, people will talk about it. you know, it will and it will go around. And it would be celebrated. Exactly see like everything you're talking about right now and I've said this multiple times. I do not envy Asha Sharmer one freaking bit. Yeah. I mean she's walking into a hornet's nest of you don't have The wiggle room compete because these prices are so out of control. Yeah. and it's it does seem like she is retreating not sounds struck, but she's retreating back to let's build the Xbox brand. let's make the hardware matter. R. And it does seem like exclusives really are actually coming back in some way Like Halo campaign involved is going to be on Playsttation five. It didn't show up in the state of play though. That was weird to me. Like I thought that that was notable that like that's the big deal there. But like whatever, they'll probably have a trailer on the PlayStation YouTube page somewhere else. that's fine. And they have the PlStation five logo. Yeah. not the Xbx log. Yeah. rightight but that's not. I think that's done. Like I do, you know, it sounds like things are sh it's Okay, then what? Like what is going to be different this time? And I don't know like what do you I mean you guys Long time Xbox podcast. What Well, you know, and I know some people get upset when I say this. I don't have the optimism that you do that exclusives are really coming back f. I mean, I not I think look, I just I think they're coming Like in some way, to a certain degree. Yeah, yeah, and to a certain degree Yeahah. But Eble Scroll six is not going to be an exclusive on the Xbox as an example, right? Yeah Right. I think their're big hey for the Horizon six. this is a game that makes a lot of money. We're not going to make this because let me explain it this way. I think in this current climate I don't think Xbox can make enough consoles at an affordable price to say We're going full exclusivity. All right. now we need to sell twenty million consoles actually. Still me I'm one hundred percent with you on this. Yeah. But go with me. What if exclusives are coming back? they might be then what L That's what I'm saying, Wh's who's buying because what is it? thirty five million Xboxes out there, let's say. Yeah Who's buying the other twenty or thirty million to make this Right? I don't think anyone has Yeah at the point. Right? Yeahah. so what happens next? It's like Iingames out to die. Maybe my next question is what's an Xbox exclusive that's going to be good.? Yeah, I mean because I gott to be honest, like They fucked up Halo Hey everyone, a fucked up halo. Yeah. I'm fucked up I love Halo infinite. so I mean fine They fucked up They did fuck it up you're like just from from a perspective of like That seems so untouchable for so long and How did they get messy? I did all I don't know. too me, I'm like, I it' be great. too me. I tell you that one was just you got. you got throw Josh Sawyer the keys to Xbox and just have them make RPGs But the That's all I want. Yeah. But I'm a sicko. I'd give one hundred thousand million dollars for him to make Pintament two. I mean Pintament one versus one hundred. Yeah so. we're going. one last thing I'll say, I think one thing that Xbox needs to figure out is the messaging What is exclusive What is not? Yeah is all reallyally bad for the past couple of years. Yeah But if Asa could figurered out her and the team I think that's that's a great story. You heard what she said yesterday in the Bloomberg interview. She essentially J just reworded what the previous administration had already been saying They're going to look at it on a case by case basis. they need to make it and I'll take it a step further, not just fix their messaging, fix the logic. Itess said that we understand it creatively. like, o, that's going to be an exclusive or it's going to be timed or whatever the solution is that still maintains the possibility of being profitable so that we get it and you don't have to explain it. Like just make it make sense. should be like intrinsic should. I just feel like she's at the at the at the dial looking back at the audience. I mean, I'm even more. I think she's at the co pilot. Yeah. kindind of guys. I think she's at the co pilot say how do I do? I think she justs turned the dial kind of looking back and going like Is this good And then someone would yell at her in Twitter And's I didn't like that. I didn't like that she responded to the mob You know I And when I sayliber slli sl I' understand you know you mean the hardcore fans out there that want to see Xbox compete with excluseive They're in their field this, right? Yeah. Yeah I don't she just said anything. I feel like personally. She's giving them too much power. Yeah because now totally They're going everything that hey, we don't like Pasha. whyy are you doing this? And then they're going to expect a response No. Now I have a question for you for you guys everybody Do you think? PlaySation. We're now releasing single player games on PC. it's not permanent It's not permanent. I don't, I don't see that permanent. I think So that mean that to me that one looks like We got to have a reason to sell people PlayStation six in a couple of years So excluses are the one thing they could sort of do there to like make that happen. I mean does that sound right? I mean, I think so. Allegedly, but they got to release more No, I know. I know they got of one hundred perilas. They got to deal with what they. I mean I think What this conversation gets at is that there's just There's so much, it's so messy. There's no very obvious answer to any of this stuff. The problems that Microsoft facing PlayStation faces them, but not to the same degree because they found themselves to be the default console right as Grand Theft Auto six is about to come out. So they're going to have a second generation here with the PlayStation five here for a couple of years based on that game alone. They have a lot of the same questions. and I just I don't know what's next. And I don't think any of these people really do. And that's what you hear often from people that I talk to It's, you know the people in charge really are kind of not coming at it from a perspective that when we have these conversations, this would be kind of foreign to them They wouldn't know. Yeah. Yeah. because to me Not to sound crazy. This sh' not that hard. No, It's not. They make it so much harder than it needs to be. Does it seem harder toome No. no. squ next M ass games. To me, it's just like it's like they Sony and Microsoft have gotten way into shareholder value Yeah way into listening to a lot of stuff. and it's like Well, we got we gott to be everything to everyone We have to be a trillion dollar company Yeah it's like for what? Like for what? You've completely confused your brand for a bunch of people I grew up with you. Netino is our confuser brand You know, they they they're playing with house money, sure. They're also not chasing infinite growth. They're not ching g growth. I mean, they're like they'reising the prices, trying to like for all. But you know, I think the logic thing you talked about, we understand what Nintendo's doing at every turn. And so when they raise prices, we also like . I'm not I'm never happy about it, but it's I see what's happening here and then Am I still gonna to get my fun Yoshi game? Yeah,' right. I'm all right. but I'm a fan boyf for Nintendo so I shouldn't even speak to it. all there. Yeah, exactly It's it's messy. I think things do feel like they're still going to get a little bit worse before they get better. Yeah I agree. I think it's going to get worse before we start to see, you know, any light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah I guess before we move on, like Are they going to be buying consoles in ten years? No kid They're not buying them mal. They're not buying them now. Yeah. They buy they don't care about hardware. They don't care about exclusives. It's like Can I play the same game that my friends are playing too? the stuff that I already have. Exactly. That's how it is Roblockx, maybe, but yeah. Yeah. like I already give a perfect example in my house O of my daughters plays Fortnite on the PC My son plays it on a console. My other daughter plays it on a phone. Right. And they all are like that's what's convenient for them. They don't talk probably I don't ever talk about the h like I play for itn nowight Yeah, they don't care. They don't care whatware. it's not hardare' We were talking about this on the car in the car actually on the way over here, it's like When you think about a phone, it's like, I have an Android, somebody else has an iPhone, they have a Samsung or a pixel. Nobody gives a shit. They all work on Spotify. Yeah.. So it's the app people care about now And the hardware is just what feels good to All right, we're going to wra up this segment. That was excellent, everybody. Thank you all so much It's GB at night, presented by Please Wishlist Aliens Fire teeam Elite two. We're going to be back here really soon, everybody, rightight after this Hey everybody. Welcome back to GB at night presented by Please Wishlist Aliens Fire Team Elite two. We're having a good time. We got another new panel for you. I still got throaty and my throat coat now. It's a match made in heaven. I can't wait to talk to these people though. Starting with my friend Jason here, why don't you introduce yourself? Hello. I am Jason Schreer. I am a reporter For Bloomberg News and a bunch of other stuff. I don't even know where to start. I get it. Hi. I'm Kate Sanchez. I'm the quot owner and editor chief of botYo. net And also a very depressed sppurs family Hi, I'm Jill Groat. I am the editor in chief of the Indie Informer, former Game Informer U and covering all things in here at's Summergame Pest And I'm Alex Van Aken. Hello, I'm from Game informer. I'm a senior video edit Over there. gllad to be here I'm Russ Frstk of the Besties podcast and also business boy for Kind of Funny. B this. Thank you. Hey, I'm Markcusson and I'm Creative director at Messhof I Mark, you you announced the game today? Was it was announced today? orr did you show was the first reveal a Blood Dungeon is our new game. It's a two D sort of Vampire Survivors meetets Sillunky. It's a two D platformer with like auto shooting and all that stuff. I I didn't get a chance to see it but'm like I'm surprised just because you guys just had Re World like last year, right? Yeah, totally. What was It's a quick turnaround. I mean, know it seems pretty fad return to bedroom coding, I guess. It's like my wind down routine is Nake stuff on the computer so this is like building for a while. You couldn't help yourself is what you're saying. Yeah ye Yeah. But getting it ready for like release soon, Do you have like a date or anything? or. Yeah. we're getting all our ducks in a row. We're doing porting stuff. End of the summer is what we're saying but it's sort of like depending on how certain and all that stuff goes So like once you bring it the D day of the Devs and I get people get to see it, like What happens next? Is it like you just go back and you're going to work on it or is it like you really have to start splitting your time between communicating about the game versus like, we'll be working on it. We have another project going on that I can't talk about, But yeah, I'll probably be doing some edit space. We have a demo coming the demo just launched today on Steam. so you can play it now. part of it And you know, I assume based on response to that, I'll speak things and whatever. Yeah Your games have have a lot of fans Nithog wheel world. Do you like hear people asking for like, oh a follow up to one of those games? or do you like tune that stuff out Well, I mean We did that with Nithog, I guess. Yeah. real worldorld is like We could do it, but it takes a lot of people to do that. So I don't know if the I don't know if it makes sense. Yeah. but ye Yeah, I mean It's always fun to move to new stuff also. So I had a question when you guys are releasing a demo Yeah How are you I mean, you're looking at feedback, obviously people playing the game What is the best way to say, oh, this is terrible feedback, this is good feedback? Having never released a demo before, I will just say I mean, you know, people Yeah, you try to you try to put yourself in their shoes and like what did they experience that made them say that? you know And how can you does any of that align with what you want to do in the game? So you're not going to make everyone happy. You want to make yourself happy. F more on check Yeah, I mean, you realize things about the game that you didn't know before for sure. all it's all good information. You want to share the worst feedback you've gotten so far on the demo It was just launched like four hours ago. it's this right now. Yeahl so. just wants you to read his comment right. it actually responded to my comment. I loved St. reveal as like, real world creators and it's just this lovely soft and now it's blood dungeon. But it is going back to kind of form what you guys are looking for with NidHog is like that gritty aesthetic, right? Yeah. No, that's true. Yeah Greats name, Bloods engine. Fantastic name. How I'll take you Uh, you know I development, I realized there's a blood sauce dungeon in Game the pizza toower? Oh yeah. you were okay with that, but then I was okay with Yeah. because I think it's different. You didn't want to name it wings of Thieve the name. I like that name. Don't say bad things about Ace comombat eight wins of Thieve. Be careful. They might be sponsoring. That's right. You could say whatever you want about. please wish list, Aliens, fire teeam Eite too.. I mean, I guess it's loosely connected to Nithogg and for a while, was called Nithog Blood Dungeon, and we're like Mike time together especially a butt I'm curious where the Salunkian and smoke comes from because when you said that, ears perked up. Well, I mean, there's like shops and doors and keys and exploration and Secrets and that sort of thing. Hell yeah. Is it a true rogue light or rogue like. They're like a run based. I mean, they're short Is they their progression, I guess is what I'm at Unlocking progression. Okay. There's like levels you unlock, characters you unlock, parents you unlock, all that kind of sick counts. There's like metap progression where you get permanent boosts for certain things That of stuff Actually, I love this because it's like we have these conversations. We come up with all these terms when we talk about games all the time. And I do wonder like developers even know we're having these conversations? like would they care? Like they have to just make their game, right? Like was like we talk about rogue like versus roogue like Is that something that you guys even think about when you're working like a super passionate like genre person R Yeah. Yeah, I'm just like, oh, I've played a lot of these games and there's things I like about them and I got my idea, you know. So Yeah. No Jeff Grub are bullshit. Yeah, absolutely. forcent. But like everything we talk about on video game podcasts is bullshit. So like we pretend theyool. A lot of times the games know they evolve and like this didn't start as this. It started as something else. It started as a Cra three remake or something, you know?. So yeah Russ, how's it going being the best business boy? Oh, I am the absolute best business boy. It's lovely. guysu it' kind of funny you're awesome. and then I get to scratch my little editorial itich with Bestie's podcast, so that's always fun Yeah U like you started with doing this for kind of funny like a year ago. It's almost a year. just started right after SGF last year U started talking to Greg and Tam and those guys and Yeah, they rule. I wish I could add some snark to their aspects, but they're lovely people to work for. And Can we say Tim is lovely? Greg Miller, you know what's wrong. Okay' like to say I' never be blessing in a game of magic. Unless I have a hatred for him that is also a deep friendship. G got to do something about that. Yeah guy. Yeah good he's getting yoked and he's good at magic.'s that's Yeah.. Yeah. But Russ, you like wasas it a matter of like you had all these relationships in the industry and you I could do something with this. Yeah. I had been doing this Basic idea for Polyon for about five years and then Things with Plygon happens in What happened? Please I don't know we talking about detail. Yeah You know, various things happen. There's still a lot of lovely people still working there that I truly am very fond of. And there are a lot of people working maybe in the upper echelons of that company. I'm not the most fond of. Names Jason. But yeah, so really I mean, it came down and Greg and Tim had we spoke to them or I spoke to them and They expressed an interest. so it just felt like a very good fit. and I was ready to go And You know Here's media It's a tricky place to be in. so stretching my wings a little bit felt like the right time Yeah, what you don't have to like give specifics but like what are what's the tenor of the conversation when you're talking to potential partners for someone like kind of funny? I mean, a lot of it is like shining a light on stuff that realistically wouldn't necessarily bubble up to the surface. thingsings like Steam Nextfest happen and there are eighty fucking games on Steam Nextfest. and unlike ten years ago, I'm sure you've seen this too, they're all level of quality on steam especially is through the roof. Yeah. So being able to like have a conversation with someone where it's like the game is great. but needs a little bit of extra love and tension and maybe that's in the form of like Just like a little bit of branding on the set or hosterreies. I mean, you guys know U So it's kind of a win win for everyone and O So yeah, that's more or less it. Does it help that like you're still doing besties? you're still like on the ground p for me, it certainly helps both like being in the mix and understanding what's going on and also just creatively. I like doing it. Yeah. I like conveying my opinions in a public manner Uh so yeah, so I love doing besties and continue to keep truckking. It's been a while, right? Yeah, we're around fourteen years at this point. It's a long fucking time. Yeah Alex, how are you doing I'm doing good. I'm glad to be here Uh things' been going a good to game informer. We're still making a video game magazine. No yeah. belieelieve it or not, people still buy those. Yeah. I subscribe too, but you guys got like stores, right? How's that going Yeah, good. We're we're in new stands across the world We're in the Amsterdam airport, baby. Yeah that's what that's where the magazines are sold. Hey if you're in the Asteram Airport, hit up One of the new sts. Yeah, we we're we're back in stores. You can buy individual issues again. Uh although we are trying to make like make subscribing to a magazine fun. Yeah. So we like try to do like uh packings and that kind of thing, whether it's posters or stickers, that kind of thing. I actually do CD RM demos. I like those. Yeah, yeah, we do those Yeah. For our sooul frame issue we did a couple months back Everyone who was a subscriber got a code for the game inal Now it's in your Steam Lbrary. read things, get a little pizza and get aiz. Yeah, yeah It's it's fun It's definitely still challenging, but You ever grown every issue and u Yeah, you'll see us maybe in more places, you know Later in the year. Yeah. When you come to summer Game Fest for Game inform, like you sound like you guys had like a coolamepl plan. you already talked a bunch of people like how do you sort coverage around this. Yeah, yeah, we werere kind of honestly inspired by GB a little bit, You know,, you guys have been putting this on for forever And it was like, okay, well, well, let's not do the GB thing because they're the funniest people in the industry and we can't really im that's what our motto is. Yeah. Yeah. What if we had a cool space and we had developers over to tight So we've been like filming some stuff that'll go up throughout the week M so vod than live stream, but like, yeah, we're we're here. We're we're working our butttss off, but we'll also do our traditional coverage, you know? We'll be at playdays all week, you know, but I went to a magic event. Kate, you were there earlier tonight. We met Amber Glenn Olympian Amber Gllynn. And I got to talk about my very sad Spurs team with Passious. There M' something good going to happen to the Spurs When is something good gonna happen to the sppurs? Oh ye, that's weird.. An Harper, Anne Castle. You didn't notice. At our average age is twenty five. Yes, you guys are gonna win the next nine. It's okay if you lose that. Yeah.'s If you need a new hat, you can. Y Lakers, it's okay Jill, K, you guys have you guys like been covering games in a lot of ways for a long time. How do you guys feeling about this year's SGF so far Good. I think the Indie showcases have been ata high quality. It's been amazing to see All of the uniqueness I mean, when you're in the industry and especially when you're watching Indy so closely, when you find a bunch that you haven't heard of It's so, so exciting be like, o my gosh, I did't have that on my radar. Now I have to go find anywhere to wishlist it. I think In particular, the Latin American Games showcase was spectacular this year Everything on there, I was just like, I need to get this. I need to check this out. This is so amazing. pllus the production value And just the beautiful like scenery and everything they put into that you get a sense of like where that how that scene like where it grows out of? because I always like understood for a long time now there's a lot of like support studios in Latin America. Is it like, oh, they're like sort of like, hey, we can make our own games or was it always happening? I just didn't notice? It was always happening Yeah so it's like nice that they're getting recognition and like yeah ye they have that platform now. Yeah. one hundred percent. Yeah. That's the reason a lot of these exist because there's something there. And we can show it off. or the Lag's team is great. They're doing amazing work but it's it's Indies exist everywhere because you can make them everywhere Yeah. And sometimes wayay cooler things are happening in spaces that are not inspired by things you already know about or they're really interested in sharing things that your perspective doesn't usually see Uh or just to see things in a different way. And it's just it's Amazing to see everything that they're doing and it's so high quality. I canan't wait to like be done with someame fastar and play games. Yeah Yeah, honestly, we had like the TV set up in here. and I'm like, what if we just didn't invite anybody over and I just played Street Fighter or whatever. Yeah, I get it I've saw some people like posturing it like This SGF has to be a sort of thing where it justifies what's happening around games, in terms of like pricing and just the cost associated with everything. Do you guys feel like indie games have that same pressure or do they exist in a different plane? or what? I think they all do. Like ultimately games as a hobby has traditionally been pushed out towards an upper class Um demographic And that has kept going strong There has been nothing that has actually skewed it towards the center orr skew it towards people who are struggling when it comes to finding the ability to even find twenty dollars to spend on a game. Yeah. Indie games offer the way to find a path for yourself And where you go, which is why like genuinely like Latin the Latin American games showcase. Every country does it And there are more ways for us to engage games that are at a cheaper price point now than there has ever been. L genuinely steam allows us to find things that are within our price point and go farther because like for me, I have maybe twenty years of blank spots, if not more for games. And then whenever you go to something they're like, oh you've been playing Nintendo games? it's like, Yeahah, I was poor U, and that consists to today The amount you have to spend for a first party game, it's six hundred dollars. I need people to think about that. becausecause if you don't own a console and you don't own the game, it is a console price plus the game Indie games are a beautiful way to expose people towards video games and also show them that it is possible to make it by yourself Make it with other people and that like game jams can be like the most empowering thing And you're not getting that from first party games. You're not getting that from this PlayStation showcase. You're not getting that from Xbox. You're not getting that from Nintendo genuinely for me. and I think as I've gotten older and I've grown out of that not grown out of that. I gotten an access to get me free games for coverage I've actually thought more about the people like me and that are behind me They don't get that chance. They don't get to buy that game because now it's seventy bucks. Now it's one hundred bucks That is something that I think we need to be more conscious of Because as we price people out, we're actually limiting the developers that we actually have For the future Because they don't see a game, they don't engage with it. They can't see something they don't want to push to And like Jill said, like indndie Games is this wonderful platform where like you see them You watch the showcase whether it's women led games, Latin American games showcase, Southeast Asian games showcase, Day of the D showcase. Yeah. be amazing. All of those things are ways for us to engage with it and see something bigger than ourselves and move towards it, whether it's from a coverage perspective or it's from just a general players perspective. Yeah Jason, I was suuckking on the last panel about how like seeing a little bit of sell up in the market today because all these big companies are saying everyone's running out of money and that feels like this Imovable object versus the unstoppable force of these companies want to keep making more money How are these things going to meet? Like peopleople are out of money in a lot of ways, but everything has to keep getting more expensive to justify the cost that you just did G good explainer on this why games cost so much How do these things sort of pass by one another? They don't. Everything is screwed. answer. First of all, Jeff, I just gotta say I wantan to break the news here that I'm actually I'm working on an expose about aliens, fire teeam elite. Okay. Yeah. good. Someone needs to expose it. in fact, someone needs to please wish list, Aliens, fire teeam elite. We need to take those guys down. Yeah Yeah, I mean, everything is fucked like I don't know if you wanted like a businessy like I wanted response here. Yeah. I can't say that's when I do my Bloomberg TV hits, but everything is fucked. The entire AAA industry is just like eaten itself. I used to write like eight or nine years ago about how the video game industry was unsustainable.ustainable And we've hit the point where it is the unsustainability has become apparent to Everybody. Yes. Soough it's not AA, it's also the Kodev Studios Like one of my former studios very specifically, like Codev stududios over indexed on engineers, which are the highest price point for all of their work Most of them pushed towards principal engineers which are literally the highest paid people in a company because they thought it could get contracts as that dwindled, actually pushed it down and led for more Layoffs in the non engineer specific m And those are the shadow layffs, right? it's like the ripple effect of like the triple A and everything that's like kind of syb outajority I think Iron Galaxy is a great example of that Yeah And you saw that company reduce from three hundred people two ninety. I mean, it's not just that. what's the the studio Sony just laid off or shut down blue Bue point. That's very similar,? where it's like they looked at it and like We can get something similar outsourcing for quite a bit less or even a little bit less. It doesn't matter. it's less. Yeah. you go to other countries that are cheaper labor. And yeah, I mean, we're I don't know if you guys saw Asha Sharma, the head of Xbox spoke at a Blomberg event this week and was talking about like how their business is has not seen growth in recent years And I don't know if there's a way to return to growth. It's like looking at China and Roblox and she has some ideas, but like, I don't know. I don't know how much of it is there. I think we're in a bad place. Mark, from your perspective, like how do you think things have changed for you as an indie dev in the last ten years like it's harder for you too, right? Her to be an Iie dev, sure, but it's I mean, it's for Sorry forget your name. Kate It's kind of for those reasons that you're bringing up, it's like there's more people in the marketplace, which is, you know, is good but it's also bad for P people like me that want to be on the top of the pile. so but yeah, I mean There's more people, there's more people in developing countries that are making games for cheaper. so there's more games total and yeah, you can't, I don't know very important thing you had to make sure where're like, I think as Americans, like American Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, but that's like that's like the complication of the issue The complication of the issue is that it is very difficult to say, hey, other countries deserve the spotlight because they are producing the talent that can produce video games. However, the only way to make that money right now is by cod dabving and outsourcing for other companies. And so like like when you were an American who was like, buuying games, playing games, all that stuff It's very easy to get antagonistic towards other countries that are producing talent.ure And like I say this understanding because it is like, hey O American companies are trying to Lay us off, fire us so that they can get at a cheaper cost. That's true. other issue is that there is a lot of xenophobia when it comes to the American games industry. where we immediately attach stigmas to other countries, whether it's assumptions about the type of game that they're produced that it gets hard to actually become a solo developer in another country. It becomes harder to make your own game if you're not in Canada, America, England or anything European And that is something that like there's no answer to it, because it's difficult becausecause there is a big issue with it, but it is also on the other side. it is like, okay We are feeling the pain But the pain is on both sides And that's like a larger thing that consumers don't understand. and it's very It's meticulously obfuscated from the view of people who are buying games right now. Yeah I mean, like I think back to the crash where it's like, people talk about the crash. is this thing something consumers noticed. the eighty three crash and they didn't. Yeah. Everyone just kept buying games and they got it cheaper. And it's like one thing that is a little bit different now is Things are more expensive and that is very noticeable. And so people do start like They' like worurking up like That's hobbys feeling weird now. and I do wonder if like Why would someone who is even a little bit on the outside or even someone who bought something during the pandemic? if they were to we're gonna be like, Hey, I'm interested in GTA six and they look in here and we're all kind of like have our hair on fire because everything's so expensive It's I think It's pretty easy to it's not people ced buy these systems for Grand Theft auto six, but I still feel like a lot of people are looking in for any other reason and going I don't need much of an excuse to save my money I don't know Jason, what's What's going to happen after the GTA six comes out and people actually do buy these systems at a higher price Is the industry going to believe, oh it's all solved and we're back on back in business, baby Well, it's a presumption to think that there will be systems on shelves to buy. firstirst of all. Yeah. That's going to be a problem U I think what's going to happen after GTA six is that you're going to see more contraction the way that GTA six is just going to be a blip. It's going to be good for take two. It's going to be good for players who get to play a new GTA and then GTA online is just going to suck in more players time and stuff. And everything else is just going to keep going as it is except worse. It's just going to get worse and worse Especially because the hardware prices are not going down anytime soon. I guess it's better if you are a player who wants to find a bunch of cool shit on Steam because if if you do, there's more as you guys were pointing out, there's more cool stuff than ever. But for people who like see the industry as an industry as a place have a career is going to be harder and harder Like we're going to see some sort of transformation where maybes it's tougher to be like, I am going to work an office job in the video game industry and like have a stable career for thirty years. That was always tough. That was always a pipe trade. that's like consistently happening right now. I used to work in university recruiting And the amount that like they're University students are struggling to find something to latch onto I think like the last three years. become a desperation that has become hardurer Like theres no there's no rope to grasp ont to because everybody's closing their internships Everybody's closing their entry levels. like mid level people are going for entry level roles, senior level people are going for mid level roles It's closed. That's even like in our industry in the media space of things People who are getting laid off have been here for years and years and decades and decades and like what chances does anyone have if they're just starting out to go up against someone who's been in the industry for decade and those people are not even getting jobs that Wild. I think the other thing that Price does too is when you look at the demographics in this country economically It is It is extremely disparate Yeah A lot of them look like Yeah Not a lot of them look like the people who are around me right now. which is not a slide about against anybody around me But what that does, it facilitates a culture where you're not being exposed to games, you're not playing games, you're not understanding them on a level of somebody. you can see that as a pathway that you can go. So it goes beyond even the university student who is like UCF that has one of the best game design programs in the country It goes beyond that. It also goes to the teenager who's in a high school a magnet program Who wants to go into game design But they don't see anything like them or their family is from a lower income bracket We're consistently replicating a system that has existed since I was young I did not know that this is where it could be. Because I couldot afford to have any of the consoles before the first PlaySation And that was the only thing I had for years.. Yeah. Like that's what it is. And it's not even just race. It is literally just everybody who is in a lower class bracket than everybody else. Like And I think a lot of people think about this comes to just race, but no, this is a class issue And we are losing an entire generation of developers who could be pursuing the next great game. Building something more They aren't getting the inspiration, the spark, seeing the character that will push them to do something more And that is like if we're not driving prices down, if we're not working to make games accessible beyond a computer because right now, I to replace my GPU I wanted to cry More than the burs. It was worse. Like I it was very bad and I am a very I'm in a privileged position to be able You have replaced it. Yeah. There are a lot of people who cannot afford to a computer who play those games, the stam deck price just went up I didn't take my steam deeck with me, ' I'm like, if I break this I can not replace it? You w to say my Steam Deck OLED is now available for sale. Please. We can talk about that after All right, so then what does the next couple of years look like? Is it just going be more pain? is it going to be uh Is there any solution on the horizon? We gott to bring back the rental stores. Yes. Crash band bringb back video warehouse. I mean, wasn't like Hardware is expensive, so cloud's going to solve it, but why doesn't why is that not answer?ike Subbscriptions Yeah. it''s also a monthly piece. Yeah Like my parents could afford a five dollars game they got from Blockbuster, which is always crashed Bandicot because I was a little obsessed That's where it went. Yeah You need something cheaper for a one time play. I mean, I would also add that like I think there's a lot of titles that are coming out right now and Your games are a good example of that that run on An anything. You could use a ten ten year old machines. Yeah. Honestly, it bums me out when we talk about this as a hobby, but it's like when we say hobby, we mean getting whatever the big consoles put out. Yes. So it's like exactly. It doesn't feel like a hobby to meet. It feels like a I'm a consumer and these are my brands and that's when I'm gonna buy Give us a reason to buy the next big thing.? That's going change so many like we' saying before, there's so many games coming out. There's so many people makingames really personal stories And, you know, it's not today that they started doing that. It's like decades. Yeah. So if this is like this is your This is your personality, your life, you care about it. There's so much to like choose from. You really don't have to just be always at the tit of the Pushing hardware is a dinosaur at this point. It's just not what should be happening. You see games like Mina Push sales wise critically acclaim across the board game can run on anything So yeah, I'm encouraged. So what I was trying to get at earlier is actually kind of fits with that point, which is that the industry is going to transform to a place where it is more difficult for it to be an industry because the AAA jobs that you guys or the AAA games that you guys are describing also support Pe who actually have jobs where they get paid to go into an office and make games. Indies do not support that. Indiess are like a lottery ticket. like you make a game and you hope it sells, but chances are it's not going to. And I think we're going to see an industry that kind of shrinks and changes and maybe becomes more like Hollywood, where people are working on contract and on gigs maybe transforms in a different way that I can't even imagine. I don't know, it's change in a big way for the people who work in it. Yeah, it does feel like u We were always going to get to this point, right where like the hardware the diminishing returns were so strong that like it was always going to be hard to justify. Now like that's being paired up with these rising costs that make no sense for for people who are so used to prices going down for so long So it's like it's forcing the issue. And then it's like, I think the issue is like, then yeah, where do people like how does it become a hobby? How does it And like for me, it's like, well, I got my little Chinese handheld that I love and I'll play any game that I've ever had on that. And now it can run steam. And that's pretty cool too. And it's like, yeah, and it's something I tinker with And I do view that as a hobby aside from whatever's happening with these big consoles. that is really the answer here. Like Xbox and PlayStation just don't make sense in. Do you want to know the real answer? Yeah Destigmatizing mobile games. Yeah. ultimately, that's what it is. likeike CFB just launched on mobile That is a big get specifically for the communities that go to football. Right. But like Resident Evil came out on IOS and no one bought it. No, that's fine. Nobody in the US bought it. No I mean it was like ten thousand copies worldwide and it's like because people don't want to buy games on that stuff. And it's like being able to sell games at a premium price is like something that that audience is trained not to do the ship is sailed there. No. I don't think it's sailed. genuinely, I think that is an adjustment. And I think a lot of what happens specifically with AAA companies when you have that is a enf forced stigmatization that comes from the existing games media towards mobile games is the thing, L like I've covered mobile Eesports games. The amount of my peers that have completely dismissed it Yeah Butpite the fact are influence. Like I don't think most people who own a mobile phone know who I am. like they don't care. So I don't disagree about the st like the stigma around it. that is real. but I just don't know if it like registers for that normal person. I think it does though. Okay. I genuinely fromr the reach that our articles get, from the reach that our podcasts get, from the reach that our YouTubes get Whether it's a clip on Instagram or something else, if you normalize playing something on your phone, it gets easier. And that's why in other countries like in A America That is the primary source of gaming Because ISPs are not reliable at all If you move towards that, it does get easier. There are other issues. likeike that market is highly predatory and I will not pretend like it isn't. But it is also a place where people can actually reach it. And you've seen that take off Specifically like Latin American esports places. Yeah Brazil's Yeahah huge for that. Yeahah. Were you gonna say something? Oh just I mean, I don't actually know the numbers. I was under the impression that the mobile games business was like pretty big, like Oh, it's huge. Yes the console and PC business or playessing. Right. It's just like yes, selling free to play games and stuff like that is massive.olute audience is there and the audience understands it. Yeah just a question of like, can you compete in that marketplace that's so Butich I will say the mobile CFB announcement was huge. Sorry mister was that one? So the mobile Eports college football announcement? It was gigantic because college football is a gigantic sports They haven't put a Nintendo switch yet, which a lot of people were asking for The mobile announcement was gigantic for the market that plays it because not all of them are typical gam. But it's also a very stagnant market, though. had the same ten games at the top for the last ten years more than that honestly. And it's like and the things that can move that are, well, yeah, if you can spend Whatever that number was to get the license for college football on mobile, you can get in there Who is that that's E that's like Blatro. Yeah like this. Right, right ye Yeahes. obviously.es. that spend I mean,. That's the lottery ticket. To invest in it though. Yeah. And the truth is Americans don't invest in it the way that other countries do Yeah. Yeah I feel like Netflix is a discussion we can throw in here with like just suddenly dropping out there like we see people trying to invest in this market and then not being aware of what they got into and then pulling back out and leaving a lot of Iies brushed it on the floor, trying to scrambling to figure out what to be doing what they can possibly like get back on U I am very excited for Spry Fox's new game that's coming up, right look so good U It's a really scary place First of all, seeing it as a company that might invest in mobile technology, but also people who might want to partner with that to look at Netflix and be like Oh, well They seemed like They might have the sauce and then they just suddenly dropped everyone So like Do I put my tr trust in this new thing? I feel like we see that kind of happening a lot What do you think Alex you know, one of the things that I I actually, um I find myself looking. I don't download games on my phone I'm kind of that conversation is interesting to me because Uh, you know, I definitely and somebody who I go and look at those charts. I look for, you know, I feel like Apple used to be Really good about highlighting new games that were coming out And of course, I'm not placing this at the feet of 's aditorial team or editor their internal editorial. But like in the early iPhone days or like early game when games were really kind of popping off an iPhone, You could get you can find recxs so easily through like editor picks and that sort of thing And that stuff is really dried up Um, and I find like, okay, well, if the official channels aren't even really like pointing me into new directions It's really hard to kind of sit there and churn through seearch results on those places. The reality is it's like on mobile, if you're not the biggest games, and you're not on Apple Arcade. Apple Arcade is the thing that people still will show up, you know, you're not then you're not going There's been so many so many platforms have had that issue for years. But even on steam like I find that like if I I will sometimes go and like I'm on like the ninth page of steam the new releases and you can still find some stuff if you're looking. whereereas haven't really found that. in the mobile space, even though I do look there. so it's It's kind of a bummer, but yeah. I thought it was really interesting the infograph that Keey showed in his show. ninet thousand five hundred games or whatever is seemed very optimistic about that where I was looking at it like It's cool that anyone can make a game. It It's cool that like it's been democratized or whatever the word that they would use. that's cool that kids going to have an easier time making a game now than ever before and it'll get easier tomorrow And it's like I don't think the solution is like we should make it harder to put out games. Obviously, that's not it. So it's like What is it? I don't know I also feel that I'm really obsessed with deevlogs on YouTube and I've seen more and more any developers kind of try to go down that path and And obviously, it's like, Totally different skills set, totally different. It's even more demanding. I mean I got to make content now about my game For the people that it hits. I just find like it They really have like they start to build that built in audience and then You know, even if they aren't going to make it on the front page of steam. They've got, you know Let's say twenty thirty thousand subscribers who are kind of a built in base I find that interesting. I don't know if that's doable for most studios or you know, you're already juggling so many things, right? You mean? Absolutely. Not got to edit video, you know, but It is intriguing to me that like kind of uring format on YouTube. and. I mean it's these are challenges where it's like we're covering games not our problem for the most part, other than you gott to make games and see what. But's like we'll have to find new ways to talk about it and that's somewhat fun, but yeah. I do worry about it. but we gott to wra up this panel. Thank you all so much. Thanks for having. Thanks for being on here guys. That was excellent. We'll be back with another panel here real soon We're going to take a break. Thank you for watching everybody Back after this What's up, everybody. I'm Jeff Krub. It's a shant Bump. everybody. I'm Jeff Graub And this is Jn Bam at night Powered by, sponsored by what's the word presresented by Please Wishlist Alien isolation too. why are teaming two Read the script. Giant Bomb at Night presented by quote, please wish list aliens fire Team elite two. So exclamation point. So a different game than the one I said. Yeah. Same franchise at least. John Drake is good for it. W me I have a cavalcade Gamers, intelligence and friends You have to introduce yourself so I don't fuck up your names. Okay I am Jason Finelli, and Jeff Grubb, you have never looked better. Many people are saying, than you so much. I mean, I want to second that. Yeah. Jeff Greb fantastic look right now. I'm Step basy F I Gian Maybe you've heard of me. You probably I've heard of you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Because you introduced yourself to me and I was like, Motherfucker, I know you I'm Ronaell, A big close fist I like the tang, Jeff Yeah Jesseie Vitali R restart run, Jefferrub, I think you look like shit today. Wh Jesus. I was really me for Jesie for no reason earlier today And whatever Jesse says to me, Jeff Grub, over the course of the next thirty five minutes is justified I'm Wout, I'm PlaySec and I have no idea who Jeff Grub is. It's So real brother I'm Eric Van Allen and I'm with Gameing for No support physical media. We're hanging in there. You Hey, you charged me sixty dollars today Good. Oh congratulations. Oh I have rent. And I think there's Jeff Grub in all of us That tr I don't like that. We're all the rubby inside How's it ready show going Hey,y Nick a good time. I'm sorry Jeff Grub. Be before we do this, canan I just address the giant Bomb audience, like very quick please. Hey, Giant Bomb audience, I understand that you think Jesse Viteelli and Jason Finelli are in fact the same person And I need to just clear it up. We both love theater. We're both Italian. We both write about video games, but we are in fact different people. And you're on other sides of the couch. Also that. and also I need to make it very clear I'm going to do something to differentiate us right now. Okay. We might get taken down. We might get censored. Do not worry. It's going to be okay. It's going be fine. don'try. I'm just kidding. I do have a prop that I will need to use goingoing minion mode. Yeah yeah what? Mian mode in a bag. It's a banana. Oh This is gonna to be o. I have to go. O. There's more There's more wait Th Those are not the right ses. minion O the glass. Oh damn wait I've gone mininiumoe. You cannot confuse Jesse Vitei and Jason Finelli anymore You it I minion modeion mode? I'm going minion mode Jane is itiously? Seriously, I'm sorry. I'm about to turn white. Oh no. I'm gonna go white because this is the only way I'm gonna be saved Becauseuse I'm gonna go minion mode. Double minion mode. No What is the giant bomb audience going to do now? They'llose you this again I was s he was race six in a b video games Sponsored by. Sponsored by. I Boo ire team support now Now tryry now Did John Drake sign off on this? Okay I'm sure ho. I do think all white people look the same. Anyway, I gotta go. Jeff Grp is about to host this se Thank all, Thankk you so much., That was wonderful. Thank you. You made us feel very special Wow. Hey Hey you minions and also Jason and Jesse. How did you guys do? Oh. It happened to your complexion? I turned white because of the minion. It's like shck. You were shock It It happens to everybody eventually. Eventually. Yeah, eventually Oh back Jeff Tr is back back Lzy Jennal. It's in the same Oh. All right. how you guys doing? Jason, how's your show going? I have I have already had like a half dozen appointments and it's not even the act Yeah. You're the you might be the busiest man I know now. This it' it's getting to be a lot. my feet are having a staging mute. So you dressed nice? Yeah, yeah. I had a red carpet event tonight for Magic the Gathering Marvel superheroes How was that? It was really cool. One of the best events I think I've ever done in seventeen years of Oh, that's covering this swet.. Yeah, I understand there was an Olympian in there everyvery kept saying that.ber Glenn belieave him. Amber Glenn, a gold medal ice skater was there, was just kind of mingling, had a great conversation with her, took a selfie, held the medal. Did she know where she was? Oh, she knew. Okay. She plays it. She was the one that during the Olympics talk they did a whole segment about her playing magic. That's right. That was her thing U she is a darling Wonderful person Karen Fukcaahara, who played Kimiko and the Bys was there as well. She was great. Leonard Williams, Super Bowl champion. Sorry I just realized your a mininion.. I'm curious how you're taking this seriously I asked Leonard Williams what it would take. pry him from the seeahawks and bring him to the Eagles. And he said, keep dreaming. It was good shit. Beautiful. Seth My, how's it going at the Imagine Games network Who knows Seth to get complimentary tickets to IG and Live tomorrow. Make sure you use the code Seth because that's the best one. The other ones are made of poison. Yeah, they're horssehit. Yeah, they're horseshit, they're bullshit They'll turn you away at the door if you use any other code. No It's it's fun. It's like my favorite thing that I do all year If there's a downside, it's that I miss everythingthing else. rightight. So like after on Monday, I'll be reading all the news that happened today So but yeah, it's super fun andm I'm like I love it. I have to scream for for sixteen hours. Yeah prettytty similar. You guys like have your whole thing going. you guys have people come visit and everything. Oh my God We have We have Stevo, We Man, Poopies and Jasper from Jack Asy this year.id didn't even realize they had a new movie coming out. Yeah. No, it's coming out like in like a week Yeah, the the Best in the last, I think Jackass five. I've learned to accept that Jackass is my culture Like that's I've accepted that now. Oh my God When like Jagass first okay, first of all. The first thing that I was ever published in was Big Brother Skateboarding magazine, which is where John Knxville and Steveo got their start. back in By the way, I never got paid Larry Flint publications. if you're watching o you owe me a hundred thirty five cents a word. Yeah U I forgot where I was going this I just wanted myversus the people. You were the people actually in that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was the people is very So yeah. Jackass is like one of my favorite things. I have at home like a DV tape that I can't play because I have no way to play of like a Jackass style movie that my friends and I made when I was in the Air Force. forty five minutes of pissing pukein swearing punching We came up with this game where like the way to test if you're good friends with somebody Walk up and punch him in the face. If you're still friends, that's a true friendship. I mean, I stand of me. Yeah, I stand by that. O you punch really hard. I almost punched him Yeah, you got. Do it, man. I mean, I train, so I know how to take it For now, how you doing I'm doing fantastic. I'm doing fantastic. I'm glad're here man. you still do I know you're doing ABP cllose fist thing, man. How's it going with that? Actually use my poll for RGN liive AB closeed fist. That is not a joke. No affiliation at all, but all cats, ABA close. No yeah, it's been fun. It's been a blast. I get to do a lot of playdayay stuff tomorrow I'm excited for that. I'm doing the I'm going to enter the avatar Tournament in like Wols some assle Anbody else is joining that? Like don't don't do it Um, Yeah, I'm just I'm having a blast. Yeah, one thing I always appreciate about your stuff is like you do talk about all the bullshit that's happened and yet still keep it like super positive. Like how do you walk the line Yeah, u therapy U What's that? Yeah, ye know, for sure. That's just playing legal edges. No, for sure. It's it's rough. I think My entire journey even before this kind of gave me those skills to kind of see a little bit of a positive outlook Um, and just low, low expectations on people Yeah in general. Yeah How are you feeling about like the conversations around gaming right now Oh about Goda warar sure. I' in particular. Oh No, it's sad. It's really sad. It's That's It's pathetic, right? more than anything else, it's just like yeah. I'm at a point where I'm like I'm not even looking at it because it's just so pathetic to look at. Yeah. And it's and it's monetized patheticness. Yeah That's that's the scary part U, but because we know that It's better now, right? Like everyone knows like, oh, you're just doing that now. L the last couple of years, like a couple years, it was real. Like people was like Maybe I should agree with this guy, but now everyone knows, they're just doing this for clicks. No one cares. I'm looking at this couch and I'm realizing when I ask you guys all the questions, I should probably ask her like height and weight so I didn't put all the biggest men together on the same couch. You picked the industry's largest lau. Iuck all on one couch. I mean honest, it's It's great to see you all this uncomfortable actually. actually gets the truth out of it wasact's a little bit like torture. Yeah. O of all your answers and exasperated breaths. Yeah It's what's really hot here though. Minion, Jesse, how are you doing I'm doing great. I apologize for having to go mininion mode. I do I sincerely apologize to her apolog me minion mode. Apologize to me Yeah. to be clear, I told Finlli about this bit min ago. I. I could tell. I know. I know I know a bit when I see one and I know how it comes together at this point. Vel Are you willing to tell us about your flight Oh, you want to hear this story? I do. Okay, I'm going to try and make it quick because it is kind of a long story. I took a flight from New York City to LA. Yesterday. I take the same flight from New Yorkity in L.A all the time. I fly Jet Blue. Graight airline, in my opinion. However yesterday was miserable I went to get on the flight, the man who was sitting in the middle seat, who I would only describe as a man child. Maybe a fifteen six year old kid who looks like he's like twenty five but like a lineback refused to move to let me into my window seat. After his mother yelled at him and picked him up, I then got to sit in my window seat. He then persisted to insisted to Watch Wicked Part two, but scrolls halfway through it plugged his headphones into the wrong armrest and then cried about how he could only hear music and not the movie. He then slammed two sprites And then I took a nap for thirty minutes. and when I woke up He looked at me and went, goodood nap Oh God And o so he' in the middle of seatetnam'm in the window seat. He is every twenty ish minutes reaching over, opening the window, shutting the window. He has control of the window. I don't get that anymore. Iost control of the window He then eats a thing of Glden Grahams. a mouth open just Oh What's up This is the twelfth time you've told this story Hey, it's the first time for me Wait, why Okay, goodbye. Anyway. so Wh was? Oh, he eats the Golden Gram Then he eats a bunch of goldfish. Then slams another sprite. like you when they bring the drinks around? I'm talking like three seconds, this can is gone Then he tells His mom that is doesn't feel good and his mom gives him what I believe is a Xanax, which I don't think house for pain, but you know what I'm not a parent, I don't know any betterues. Then they go, Hey, we're going to descend. and I go We're gonna to descend and I'm like, great, this flight is over. I don't have to deal with the child anymore. He says it goes, I don't feel good and projectile vomits all over All over no. A final act of mercy. D he thirts to me and goes, I think I drink my sprite too fast. And then he turns back to the flight attendant and goes I feel so much better now. And then you know when you have like kind of a traumatic experience and you need to like mentally debrief. Yeah. He's doing that to the flight attendant who's like, cleaning up the throw up and he's like, Maybe it was the goldfish and the sprite. and all of this happens and we finally land and I look at the clock at it's seven forty in the morning I have a full day ahead of me. Oh That's the abridge version of that. If you want the long story, find me at the bar later. You doing okay after all that? I'm doing great. I can'tait go to playdays and do my job for three hundred days Wow, how's it going man? Good. I had a great flight. I don't know why I' still complaining about it. you really like thisightight it happens, man. C, get over yourself. That's just good meal, Three sprites and some goldenldld Ri and crackers. Now good man. and I always happy to be here with a big day today We were in the summer game pest, we dropped a Mor Shell two trailer trailer, demo and everything's just speey. yeah, it's all good. Yeah Is it like is it Really hectic like building up to something like that? likeike you like the conversations or is it like, You hand over some assets and have to stand back. Oh no, everything has to go well, right? You hand over the assets like weeks in advance usually and then all the little things happen. likeike when does your steam page go live? Does it work and then is it approved? And is the name or and all the translation? L there's so much work going behind the scenes. And as soon as the traader plays and it's like, Yes, and then I missed the rest of the show because I was on my phone the whole timecking Twitter likeone going okay, or Slack okay? But it was great. L it's it's such a big platform to be a part of. And we opened a show at Mortal Shell two last year. So it was a nice full circle moment and I All we have to do is launch a game. Yeah. Right I mean, you've been through that rodeo a bunch of times now. Anthing new this time? I'm sure there's always new challenges. like like how's that go? tension, I would say, like we've done so much since like Mortoshow was our first big game in PC and Csole market as PlaySack And then we had the Glden Iidol and then we had ent presenter and B Alro and we got a lot of eyeballs on us. and now every time we do something it's like, o, it better be good because it's you're just as you're as good as your last game, right? Right So it's it's nice to work on something like this big and it's for me it's a Well circle moment as well because Mort the Shell onene was my first gameway playay sack when I was still at agency So seeing the whole trajectory is pretty cool. Yeah Are there like some things you look for now where you're like, I know things are going well or I oh that's a problem. I got to put out that fire. Like you've learned a lot over time that you know you know how to apply yourself to that stuff now? Yeah, like we have the right people in the right place. I would say right now, like we have dedicated social media managers dedicated community manager. So we kind of know what it's like and you kind of have to pick up on those signals as early as you can. But I can open beta when people get their hands on for the first time. If I come back to my hotel tomorr morning, I'm going to read all the like reactions then I know Slack's going to be with the devs and with ourselves, but So far our first reactions are great. So I'm very, very happy. Good. excellent. Yeah What's it like supporting the game like Belatro for so much time? It feels like there's always something new to happen with that game. I'm sure that's like part of the plan, something you guys talk about. Yeah. What's that like? exxhausting. Yeah, Yeah It's good though. Like you can' complain. like like indy hit like Balatro like changeed I not us for myself as well, But it's one of those games that people are still playing. Like if I go on and I know everybody's addicted to going to Steam DB right now and looking at numbers of course, we all are. And still thousands of people log in every day Uh, well, it's funny now is, um Like every time I do a bomb tweet from the Blatro account is like update win. Like that is like my life now, like update win. And that will be done when it's done. It's the same, but like you you keep supporting it, right? You try to do a little merge and and It's it's been such a ride, but I always feel like We can be just a bilateral company because we have so many other games like Only this week we have like six more announcements. It's like it's crazy. PlaceX really Do the lot. Y. a lot. Yep. It seems like there's always something more to do. Al always more to do, ye Eric, how you doing man? I'm I'm living. game and former life. Its It's been going good. It'll be a year next month. So it's u It's been a lot of changes. I feel like an asshole now that's been a year. No, I'm sorry. Oh no it's okay. It's okay, Hey, we' deal with it later. All All right yeah. We'll talk. We'll talkg it out No it's been a really exciting change. I mean, in the last year, I've picked up a new job, a place I've always wanted to gotten back involved with physcical media and like I was saying earlier It's a thing we get to make that I think people want to read and that sounds very basic and reductive, but after years of having to deal with stuff like Google search terms and discover stuff, which is all just cratering right now and all being slowly destroyed The idea of just having a direct transaction of we are making a magazine that we think people will want to read and people are buying a magazine that they want to read from us It makes the equation so much easier. And so that's been really exciting for us on our end. and Yeah, I've been traveling the world, moving to Minneapolis, living in the Great Big North after years in Austin, It's been exciting. There's more north. There is more north. There is there is a legend think. There's the wall. After this last winter, I can't imagine more north or. It was rough Yeah. It was like it was in Cleveland. It was pretty rough. An ice storm in multiple senses of the wor. Yeah you, fuck yeah. Yeah. God, Yeahah, absolutely. you You said a lot of has changed for like since you guys got started like a year ago doing the magazine again in earnest What are some things you guys have learned? what has changed I would say it's hard for me to speak too much because obviously, I joined as like kind of one of the first new recruits of this new era of Game informer. So I'm definitely still like one of the rookies in the room. Even though I've been like doing this thing for years at this point But I do think the biggest change to the equation is just what I said earlier is that we are gettingetting to do the thing of putting things out in front of people. obbviously, we are now in many different book sellers and stuff like that. We are we are in Books a million. We' are in Barnes and Noble. We are in air like airports we travel to like Warsaw and stuff like that and see a game informer slotted next to a bunch of European language magazines and stuff. and it's Cool seeing that because for years, I mean, GI was kind of just like the game stop magazine. Right. so it's cool for it to kind of be freed from that a little bit and get to do that kind of stuff and it just gives us room to kind of chase whatever we want to do and do the things we want to do. and yeah. Like you mentioned it like having that direct direct relationship with the audience. It does feel like people are looking for that, right? Yeah, yeah, they I mean, You always see it with any sort of community driven endeavor. I mean, on my side gigs, I do As of the Blood God, indndependent RPG podcast, I do Normity FM. And we've seen it there that like communities want to engage directly with people and they want to engage directly with writers and they like when something feels like it is written by a person and written by somebody who has tastes and opinions and puts that out there, E if it's opinions that give you haters.. I said on stream today that I don't understand the appeal of the teenage mutant ninja turtles, and I thought I thought was b Yeah, let's go Alex Van Ak can get out of here. Yeah. Hanger' ball let's go. I saw the last roe introil. and you're like, yeah, don't get the turtles.. know they're turtles that do like martial arts. and don't like that That's the never hurt. He just explain the appeal of this place turtles. with turtles that are like cats are just cats that have swords. Why like Why does the turtles like they like pizza? Right I do like pizza. a lot of people statistically That's right. I do credit the teenage mutant Nina Turtles with teaching me how to love pizza. Like that is how important. You have to be taught to love pizza. I did. like yeah, not really, but like they really like they made it so cool to love pizza. Have you ever had a cheese bowl like they have in the cartoons though? way pull it out. like yeah,. Aarently the way they they do that in commercials is they ue. Yeah. I love that. Yeah donon't do that to your actual. It's kind of similar. The Ninja Turtles taught me to love living in a sewer. Yeah. I mean, and that's where we could afford now as games journalists. It's great Ninja Turtles just taught me to love. Yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't. All right. so you guys you guys like the last Ron in. I did want to like shift over to like talk about games little bit because I've been having a lot of other kinds of conversations There was a lot of stuff announced this week today, earlier this week at PlayStation State of playay. Anything to stick out to you, Jason? As far as summer games fest today, right? Oh yeah, orr the Plation stay to play, whatever you want to talk about, whatever did say state to play Sorry, it's been a long day. I get it I am one of those people who likes God of war laa Fe. If you don't I don't know what's wrong you It looked It was a nice little hybrid of both of the God of Wars, the Greek fighting style with the Norse u story, I am genuinely curious. How it's going to go for Lau Fe in this every every win. I mean, they the setting like seems very promising. It's a game I want to play to see how it feels because like when they were when I was hearing like the deevil M cry beforehand And then they got it I'm like, this looks a little bit more like God of War twenty eighteen than I was expecting. So I need to play it and see what it feels like. So I think there's two things about the Eone that setting that are really appealing to me. One, it's that it's a oops all gods. Yeah. You can now mix and match gods from every mythology you want. You can just pull whatever Bring any old God you wantan to bring in. Jam was saying he thought he saw Jesus Christ.. I'm so sad you made that joke ' I didn't have to. was really loud in my head. Yeah We were all thinking, ye And then two, it is it opens up the opportunity to bring back previous gu Right, whether it's from the Norse games or from the Greek trilogy I would love to see what happens if Fe runs into Zeus. Yeah I genuinely somethingomething I would like to check out I think from a narrative standpoint, from a creative writing standpoint, that is a V Good approach for something like this, and we just have to find out what happened. anyone else, any other game stick up to everybody? I'm so excited for Alien Fire teeam elite, which is now. secondcond one. Yeah, that's the one. Please wishlist it everybody. Yeah wishes. Yeah. Yeah. there's Thrody right now. Thy. Yeah. Thrody Yeah,srdy And this one's Gy Thony and go Thy go. How did Throony get its name? Well, we cant That's. that's all right. it's between me and Rdy. on the paper. Oh cool. That is crazy, again No knife I like Stellar Blade Id'am. S dude look real good, right? Yeah. Tle Bade two look pretty fantastic. The boxing got me, the weaving Uh they did show the jiggle figes on the buttop Of course they did. Yeah. they did. That looks like a fourteen year old to me. So it gets a little weird. Yeah, but it look like it's an Android, so doesn't m a real. they over. Yeah Bobbing and the weaving did look really sick though. was the moment that put me over the edge. Right Exactly. The combat looked even more dynamic than Stellar Blade and it's like they already had pretty good combat. Yeah. So it might actually be giving us a followable narrative that's Yeah. Yeah. I mean Even if they don't though, if that combat is as as it looks, I'll be all right. Yeah, I mean, I was surprised by how they what they show for residental Veronica Like yeah, Yeahah, what would you think Seth? Yeah. I was just also very surprised. Yeah, which I'm like that no, I don't recognize any of that. It's been a long time since I played Code Veronica But I was like, okay, they're already like looping things in where they made the Boulder joke And it's like clearly they're like ready to do that with this remake. So it's like, oh, I think they're going to go all out with this thing and kind of just make it the resesident evvil game and And it's like, yeah, that's a great thing to do with Cach Veronica because it's not one that like every resident evil fan has played, right No I've never played it. It's also one of those things where I was super surprised, but then I wasn't because they just keep remaking Pident Evilgates. So it's like, oh my God, they're making the one that I haven't played How was this surprisingly? It's like, what else were they? They doing a great job. They can do Zero and stuff and they will, but yeah Now, when I saw that when that trailer started, when they first walked into the room There was a camera. And I thought it was dead rising for a second. sure ye. And then I realized I was being an idiot and it was just resident evil. Yeah. they were like three graders I thought it was a blade. And then they they made not her jke. And then my head about me, but I like how that trailer kind of kept you guessing Its the very last moment. Yeah fromrom the moment that trailer starts, you can kind of look at it and go, Ohh, this looks like the Ari E engine. Like I think was like the biggest stip off. It's like, it's Ccom definitely because it looks exactly like the AE Enggine likes. And horror games are in right now.. It's all horror. Yeah. Everybody wants to be scared. Yeah.' I mean it's working that that genre like it doesn't have to just be the biggest games, like the little horror games are working as well, right? Almost even more. Yeah. Yeah I'm not I wish I was into them This start Yeah, me too. but I also Like the dinosaur one that was from state of playay. Yeah. that looked really cool. that looked intense. What was that one called? L Lost Wildes. Yeah Lost Wildes. Yeah. Look, I think u, you know, Polygon did that story about like, This summer games fest season is about this industry justifying everything that's happening with the prices. And it's like, I do think at the very least, the games are bringing it. Like I am pretty excited about what we're seeing. L I don't know if it justifies anything Everyone's got to make that decision for themselves But it's I mean, that I think it is a real thing that is a problem for the industry If they keep put out good games, can they weather all the bullshit surrounding it? I don't know what do you guys think? Okay So last night I spent a hundred dollars because of a tax because I preordered the Lego Batman Deluxe edition because it comes with a mini fig right that is based on the Sunsoft EddS game. So yeah, they figured that one out. So good job. Warner Bothers. You got my money. Hopefully Best Buy comes through with it Because yeah, they figured it out. Right. I feel like there's games that are kind of like putting stuff like people are finding reasons to justify these things to themselves. Yeah. I spent a hundred dollars for two drinks at the JW yesterday. so Yeah. That's pretty cheue. No Well pretty big in the bottom. Yeah, the drink you got is an ice. Yeah Is gaming one of those? It's not one of those recession proof? No. No. You remember during like in like two thousand eight, everyone was like, it's recession proof and then they're like It just got laid off because it turns out it's not recession. Yeah.. There' been another console generation where they've actually gone up in price so much that it was an investment to get in early on them. think I could sell It's myire fund for a PS five now. Yeah No, this has never happened before. There's never been a time in history when Video game consoles cost more Now like five years out than they did when they released. like normally we would see like a PlayStation five, like whatever, like micro that cost, you know, one ninet nine, ninety nine c. And then that's when all the people would get in and then like Yeah And then you know, smartphones came around And that audience actually kind of went away because of that. Yeah. And so there was less reason to lower the price because you weren't going to capture some lost or some like group of people that had not noticed until it was very affordable And then like now like the switch never went down in price So that's that's it's like up in price. It never went up Yeah, never went down and they went up and then like they did the OLEed and charged more for that on top. So they were already kind of flirting with this idea of like, let's Establish a price and stick to it And now like, you know, even if it was recession proof, the things that are going wrong right now are so like specifically targeted at the economics of what make games work That it's just, yeah, they have no choice but to raise the price. But's like where does that leave the rest of us? It's like, yeah, those games look cool. I get there is demand to play this stuff I mean it's we're going to read a reach a brick wall. Yeah. It's a very precarious position right now on like the supply and demand curve because They can only raise the price so much before people are like, I don't want to. But if they don't raise the price, they're not covering costs and then they literally cannot afford to make V games they can't afford to make video game consoles. so it's like I'm sorry, I really love economics and and like king about the less of the time. Yeah. but like it is such a weird position we're in right now because that demand and supply curve is so out of whack right now. We're going to find out like maybe people just don't want to pay that kind of money. He's this old head shit though. because the last conversation we were just having was like the where we're framing this is PS six and whatever the next Xbox are going to come along soon. And how are they going to make stuff make sense? I don know does that matter to a lot of people are playing games. just play on their old ch right? I don't know if that's the thing though. I think we start to see more stuff come in though. likeike the AYN Thor took off like crazy. Oh ye Yeah, ye grantly that is also feels like But it feels separate. likeike that's the hobby side versus the consumer side of buying h side has become a lot of the consumer side. I mean, you look at a lot of the younger generation and what they talk about on TikTok, what they play on social media and stuff. It's it's shifting towards more analog devices, more bespoke devices, more things that can play this stuff. I know people who have bought AY and Thors just to play their like steam games. Yeah, you know, just to put steam on there and play Min of the Hollower. What about that Thorn thing? go with the Thorn What is that call? the AYN door that is Yeah like a little it's like a little DS Android device. And they they're powerful. They're they're not like super affordable, but they're yeah. but they're like very versatile and it does it's something people tinker with And you feel a ton of ownership over it And it's not like you're buying into an ecosystem. You're buying into like a bunch of emulation and then you can get your steam games on there if you really want to go all out And it's it does feel like need to find these alternative paths to just like how are Xbox and PlaySationation going to make this make sense. Yeah As he said, I think the alternative path is Roblox knockoffs. Yeah' a word. Yeah. Oh yeah. Jason, how do you feel about Roblox? Furbox is the fucking devil. I am well on the record talking about. Um But he's not wrong I mean, if people can make roblotx without all of the I mean, okay. so The next you guys know what the next Roblox knockoff is? It's Grand Theft Auto six. Oh ye was circle block. Yes. They bought like a bunch of like user created generation like tools that they're going to put in there somehow. We don't know how yet. They haven't talked about it. but it's clear they want to like have a community build all this stuff to keep that game going forever And for me, that's always like cart before the horse stuff. It's what happened with Starfield. like Starfield's the ten year game, right? And they thought about all these things that were going to keep that game relevant for years and years and they kind of missed basics of it and it's like, I don't know if that's going happen to Grand Theft Auto. Probably not But it's like being worried about Building the tools to keep the game going forever just seems like a distraction from what you need to be doing with Grand Theft Auto right now. Yeah I was at Games Beat and u Every single ann I went into was talking about UGC. Yeah. I was talking about user generated content, user generated content. evenven like The developers, the nty, I mean, the investors, the Netties, everyone, the Tenson, it was all like, hey, we're just trying to find a way for someone else to make the games. You try We all load the labor. Kids are cheap. Yeah. Eact Yeah. Yeah ye, which is But that we also got to figure out like All right We was having fun at first creating our own stuff That was feeling like work this fifty fifty split not even fifty fifty It's not fifty fifty. Yeah this eighty twenty split ain't working. Yeah, it's it's wild. but it's like you can see why it's so enticing to these corporations that are so afraid to put money into anything. They just build the tools and let someone else make it for. I mean, you get it. Yeah. Now I think I think the console cycle that we've like all gotten used to over our entire lives is done Like I think we really need to get comfortable enjoying our Xbox Series X and our PlayStation five and whatever, whatever graphics card you have in your computer right now, just hold on to itar for a while. It's going to be a long time. and I think With like AAA games, especially, it's kind of going to be the same thing. L they're going to have to like teach a new old dog new tricks to make those games last way, way longer. And then on the flip side like, well, we do have like cool indies that kind of fill that gap. But yeah, like the console cycle as we know at the game cycle as we know is, I think Done I Do think though maybe within the next six to ten years, the console cycle settles back down and goes back. I think like AA games, like we're never gonna see it's gonna to be eight to ten years for like AAA game development. Like yeah, when it's great that's auto seven come out like twenty five years from I'll beif. I'll be giving it to my grandkids on Christmas. your death back Yeah With the indie thing though, that's why I like bringing it back to the summer game fest. I liked Sonic's little co op little four player indie joint. Yeah like Park Park. Yeah. like I think little projects like that that they can kind of use. I think that'd be like Yeah they're it. There was that moment when Nintendo put out a Cadence of Hyrule. and I was like, oh, they're gonna to do a million of these And they did one. and it was fant task. It was f aantas.. Yeah. and Danny B shouts out to Danny B in his music. Well, when you hear all this A do you guys just feel like you're in a different plane of existence? or do you guys feel all these pressures as well or what? I think we're slighting in a different plane of existence a little bit. Like we don't operate in the seven thousand nine do ninety nine space at all. Yeah And I think there is so much room for like smaller titles. Like all our titles are around like twelve two twenty nine area and that's doing well, man. L we cannot complain. and I think What we might get trapped in often like when we talk to people like this is we are the people who want to buy everything. Yeah. And there's so many people who buy three games a year, right? And if they look at the show, they see one thing that they like and that's good enough for them So I think that that's That mindset might be an us problem a little bit as well U because there's one hundred million people who buy one sports game a year and they're happy Yeah whole way through, right So I don't know how I feel about it because I'm of course in a different market. I want everybody to play something new. like we're a publisher, byy all of our games. Sure. But we also know that not every game is for everyone. L we don't target the full market for the case of Gold iddol. We don't Well' out mayaybe we can tget full M because it's a high appeal, but like every single game will find its audience. And I think you can still make some decent piece of money off a good game. U if you know how to serve it Yeah,m like It does feel like this is not a demand problem likeough People want games Yeah. and like not just free games on their phone, which is like we've said that that story was going to be once everyone started doing that, you're never going to be able to convince them to buy games again And then like Picopia comes out or like a Tomadacci life and all these people you're like, they can get maybe like slightly similar things on their phones for free. But no, they want this premium experience and they're buying switch twoos for it. It's like that's a lot of money. It's like so the demand is clearly clearly there. It's just how do we transform that into something sustainable. And I don't know if anyone knows the answer to that So it's like you kind of have to like play to the market of people who are buying a lot of games. and what other choice would you have there? And I think it's also easase to lose track because I have an eleven year old daughter. She doesn't know when the new playstation comes out Yeah at all. And she gets exposed to a lot of this stuff. Yeah I remember saving up for a suuper Nintendo. likeike that was the dream to get a super Nintendo. Yeah you go do o jobs and whatever. My kid plays stuff on her iPad and I tri to let her play like some stuff on the Playsttation that she has no idea that that thing cost one thousandven hundred dollars nowadays in Canada. She' like a guy that's fun. like no attention span, but give her an iPad and she's she's fine, right?'s uch such a difficult market. I think that's what's going to be the real challenge is. how do we appeal to The robloxs generation that are now growing up, getting little money, getting jobs and all that kind of stuff. like what appeals to them really? And that's what I think our market is perfect for because we get all these little silly games like a Rcoin and all and that kind of stuff that That works very, very well with that generation. Yeah. Yeah, it's like When we talk about like supply and demand on like the side of of like There's demand for games, but like when you're making games The supply is and the number of people who can buy stuff It does feel like That's not too much of a problem either. It just is their money It really is just that how far is their money going Yeah. And it feels like that is going to get shaky or shakyier. obviously it's already very shaky. Money and attention though because we're not competing with our ges. Yeah We're competing with TikTk We' competing with Netflix. We're competing with the attention the market really and that's also a whole thing that a lot of people are looking into right now, like Cant you just play a game of twenty minutes and feel fulfilled and then scroll on your phone while you're playing it Like and when I see those super cool games that demand like eighty hours of your attention Like That's a whole lot of challenge that a lot of people are thinking about right now. Do you feel like Do anyone feel like there's maybe a chance there's going to be a little bit of a rebound away from all these attention sucking apps and stuff like that Do it feel like people are going to begin rejecting that even though it's very hard. they are very addictive. Yes. I think so because they're starting to get a reputation about them of the toll that they take on mental health. and people just wellbeing in general, from the algorithms that are being created, right? R? There's going to want an escape from that So whether it's through more like Nowative basace, video games or books or what have you I do think that those apps have att least a more limited lifespan than it seemed like they did maybe a decade ago. Yeah, right. But no, I think the gaming industry now is in a place where they might be able to capitalize on this They just have to keepeep things like what we saw today with Veronica and your single player experiences I's some multiplayer in there too. but now is the time to really focus on those focused single player narrative driven games and deliver an experience that will move someone almost like the way that reading a book does to maybe explore that franchise more or yearn for a sequel that you can then capitalize on again Gin Atlas. That's the game I'm excited about. Yeah. That looks shit hot. All right, we're gonna to wrap up this pannel. Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. That was excellent. Thank you allall for watching. I'm gonna What? What the heck? Wha, N your f. Oh so much. to the couch for hanging out this evening. We really appreciate having Store at giantbomb dot com you can buy a shirt. An single shirt. What? It's all shirt One' free. Oneirt store gantbum. com Free free shirts must go. Free H code free shirt. It's freeree. The shirt is free. Oh my Godd. Where can I get a free shir? Sor at Jnbum d. com It's a free shirt.ememberers go there in solitaire. That's whatbody want free shirt for everybody Go to the URL That's it. That's all you got to do. Thank you so much. Thanks J brop. I love all of you. Thank you so much foring out. Thank all you timeb. Hey, what's going on everybody? I'm a xenomorphia and I'm here to tell you all about Alienss Fiatima Lite, which you can wishlist now. Thank you very much everybody. I got a wonderful couchie. I'm walking here. I'm chilling here. I'm gonna tell you Xenomorph. All right, let's start here We got Mike Menoti. Tell me a little bit about yourself. I'm Mike Menoti and I did not drink enough to be here for this with a little more enthusiasm Menoti. I like Disney talking about myself. Sounding like you're in distress. All right veryerically tell me about yourself. I'm doing great. I'm on muscle relaxers, which means I'm hnting What in Menaot' right now? What? Wh. All right, Nikki, what's going on Why are you muscle relaxers? I pinched a nerve in my neck playing Mina the Haw. Hey, thans! I it to se it out ten people Muty. Oh my can you hear this man? Give me a solo? What's going on? What's happening It's so low Hello. Oh, this is like the scene in ghost. What's going on? Mared Tish fucking wasash. That's crazy.. You we're playing Nina the hu We' playing the circumstances. I was kind of like shrinking while I was playing it and Wh mse is that babe? That's my f. You're still leaving out what you were laying on and for how long. outdoor bench and my neck was on the wood armrest. Wood bench Six hours My life is war. had to get you want on the tower. That's. That's real That's real. I getting internet bullied. All right Nicki, that's enough out of you. R, what's going on? Hey, what's up, SZ,amere, How's going? It's going G, but I ask you how are you doing? Don't worry about me. I care about you You knowt work? That's so nice, but you know what they say, like a snakes, a snake is always gonna to bite them on a enomo off if I'm always gonna to kill you. Just tell me what's going on. Yes. I'm so R. Why are the hardest person in the world to interview? Just tell me something. Is there any beep with you and our bartender Yeah, I'm gonna to fight him when we go at the flag pole later. Don't worry about. Okayen know M girls. Is that Is that Jurassic Park? Oh, or is that Life on war Are they all? That means they're gonna do it they promise. That frog DNA. All right, All right, that botend is looking at me with hello botendnder, How are you? Okaykay? Don't wor about it.. T tell me about yourself. How you doing? an Italian Xenomorph man? You'm doing great. I got the forces on, I got the chain, I'm ready to go. You know? I a like my uncle. Yeah know from Brooklyn. I'm to enomorph from Brooklyn A about crowd h,'s the going. You're the best guy around. That's what I like to give back a lot of always my guy. H Boma guy, tellell me a little bit about yourself. Zinny, can I call you Zinny? You can call me whatever you like. I love you, but that is the wettest bathroom floor I've ever had. Yeah. We don't like it. nothing to do with that. You look at this Yeah. What Wait, wait, Grub Nes Rro. We drew little whiteboard pieces earlier to see had to clean the bathroom and Grub drew the X. Why Wh did le? made it w again? Dink me please. M pe. What is it wit? That's how you clean a bathroom. You put water on the floor. What do you mean? It It's leaking? Yeah it's why the boiling.il do the le again.'t get on the one shot. Okay the last you add water to the wet bathroom. Oh more. Italian o hopefully it went b. defite love it. I love. Allright, Italian Xeno more. Yeah than you Thank you young Zineno. Io. No Young Zeno! What do you call? I don't know what that is. That's his name. I found that segment highly offensive. What are we doing here? What is this? Why? it's the last We can't hear you when we're out there. So is this goingone well tonight? Oh, it's been awful That. you remember when you were black? Yeah, that was the best time of my life Kedrin's already the only person inst media who was excited to see Tupac in that video.. You found him. There was one who was likey Bother. I'm like, that's so stupid. I love it and I'm right Bother I was kind into it. Yeah actually than you dad I'm not. Yeah. I. Hey much. Why aren't you into it I think it's lame Okay. sure. Yeah. I will say feels racist in a brand new way. The whyed racist? The way I when I saw Tupac open that fucking door, I was like That's racism in a brand new way. I haven't experienced. like work spectral racism. I felt. I literally felt sick to my stomach.ool. So cool. New racism twenty. Yeah. fig it out. We figured it out, we cracked the code You know what? Conggrats. Congrats. listen, when a panel like this happens, I don't know how to handle y'all. I've been talking to a bunch of very responsible, smart people and now it's your guys's turn. It like Jason Sreer on him. Yeah, he was doing Yeah. That guy's a nightmare. Oh Yeah Jason Sreer. He fell asleep one the hs was bad YouTubers you. It Bmer guy and I were talking before we got on and He was like, I don't know, it's like kind of intimidating. And I was like, you're on with the dumb dums. It's the final stop. This is you can do whatever you want. There's anion back there. seem smot around Jason T. Say something crazy. Pretend that I'm Jason Shreer and impress me.. Are you excited for fifty cent blood on the sand too? Wh Yeah what else Absolutely. I would love if that Oh my go. I should do that. I should do it I heard Jason Schreyer said that fifty c B on the Soo is coming. I heard that. You broke it ear. They'll invent whole new forms of racism if they mightind not game I Not why where doing it okay now? No banks in the game N the bad no. yeah, everyone a from Tony Yeo and'm a developer for Ro, butah I game was fine. I like when there's two conversations happening and one? That's the best. That's a good podcast. That good contast I'm gonna stop talking over people. No I want to be sh clear, mister Bomber guys That Dan wasking over you. Yes. you're okay here. Jeff Beacklar show. Not anymore. Car deserve A bllack Jeff Grub and xenomorph took it from me, so it' it's not mine anymore. Jeff Becklar, how are things going? Tell me the truth Oh, you can't handle that. No, things are going great. You're doing a great job. everyveryone's doing a great job. I think. Yeah, who could tell? feeles good and that sometimes is enough Yeah. honestly, it's just like I want to make a cool place to hang out and that seems like that's happened. Yeah, Vibes. Yeah vibes bathrooms. the wettest bathrooms in Los Angeles The bathrooms are as wet As the bruiser calledull at the lo. Is why He likes the Red loobster a lot, you see, Mary. Ever been to a Red loobster, mister Bomber guy? way I have not. They have these things called Cheddar bay biscuits. They're like bread but better. They made bread better. but better. Yeah It's really good. The beer is really cold there. They very fast Wi Fi. the CEO is very hot. They have seafood too, I think. Isn't that the main thing? It doesn't matter. Yeah It's not as inor one thoses. Don't worry about the seafood You've gotta go for the cold brewoth. It's the shrimp bottom.. Where are you getting not cold beer? What beer's cold, but it's the coldest at the lobster. No, it's not. C about out the red lobster. Don't speak ill the lobster. What are you doing? Not R Beyonce's the lobster. Please wish list aliens Okay, you went to tell about the t shirt? There's a t shirt. I heard it's free. Go to store dot giantbomb dot com and buy a new t shirt for a logo bom. I seem to be it's not free despite what Nicki said or watchver that was. You have to pay money for these shirts Please please pay us. Yeah, please give us money for this. What are we doing? No I' just talking about you over. A lot of problem about this. Docking isue here right now. Thanks, Ba Gy. What do you say about Dockey Cuxus before? We both played it the one percent completion. That's so interesting It It's not as bad as people say it is. Wow. Wow. You know It's a video game. I heard it said that like modern content creators don't have time to play long games, so they hate it because there's too many things to collect But that's not the problem. The probleblem is it wasn't finished. Proms. There's beaver botherss a video game. much Beaver both Beavers Bever bother. What does that mean? You have to scare a bunch of little beavers into a hole and they don't want to go in. No, they're beurn with They're not to go in herer How are you guys going over there What do you mean Grummer, I am not drunk enough for this second. We've been here. This has been a proble s. No I'm not drun like in scratch. isn't happening with being ye on us Iucky for some. bird What's he talking about? No no, He put something with his tongue and said Beavers. I to do that. Whatever he did with his tongue was the most vile. What did you do ever seen him? I hadt tried to do and seen him on. I was planning to really lay low at this you guys have a lot of energy right now. I'm gonna chill out. I'm not gonna I don't wna be the maker. Find about someone. How much money do you have in your wallet right now? How you learned my lesson I had too much money in my wallet one time. They admonished me. They said that's a bad today. H Bomber guy, how much money do you think is too much money to be walking around in your wallet two hundred dollars. That's appropriate. Yeah, two hundred dollars. Oho. That's.. I don't believe that. I probably have twenty right now. He had like five hundred sixty dollars pre. I'm not exaggerated. Every time he sees his dad, his dad's like, hey, come on, have a little twenty. likescho and he gets polding money out of b. Wait, I don't think I ever got like the explanation for why I it's a little twenty fairy He's like like You can't say that. not again He might like He think something that' gonna happen to me. He doesn't give me a twenty dollar bill every time he sees me. Oh hundred dollars. five hundred dollars in twenties. What? Yeah. That's a lot of's a loties was two muchs. I don't know to do though noobbody wants the cash. I try to buy a be That's notash last night. Do you know how upset he was He's like, I don't know if we've gonna have What's really love hanging out with your dad That's really nice. Yeah I says she's a nice guy. dad' j. My mom tried to watch one of my shows recently though. She says she didn't care for the language. Yeah. Hey, look at the camera and tell your mom how you feel about that. I love you, M, I think you're great. Let's we're the seeemorph here say fuck Mck Menati's mom that her interest intersected more of this, but that's okay. I love you any. If you' been givven him more twenties, I'll tell you that right now. ever up twies I enjoy the bathroom with them. I want you to know I was going in there drying that bathroom something. If it makes you feel any better, I think within the confines of this place There's a lot of moms that don't understand what their kids are.. He might be b one hundred on their job for that. Yeah. My mom thinks I make games. Yeah, You know what? That's good enough for you. Close enough I think so. Close enough. Yeah, I get that a lot. People just kind of give up on understand. I'm like you make video games. I'm like I definitely don't. Whatever helps your sleeping. What I do is much less important than Istand. Jan, you checked the bomcast email inbox. Do we still get emails asking for like help on certain levels in video games? That guy's not Oh, he's here. type of help. Okay, goodood for them Uh Mary, I heard something sweet that you flew out here just for us Wow No, I'm very busy in my job. I heard that you're taking care of lots of clients. They're not watching. Are you kidding me? telling me down the river. they would never watch Twitch. Wow you! We all those meetings today, Mary, right? I was very busy I don't know, but I use a computer, it's fine. This was a very important show for me. we're so to have it on twwitch. TV. so Have you gone to twwitch. TV? Have you tried that before? I't know we're on the main patreon now? Do you mean Justin. TV? Of course. J's so bad. Oh good. I don't think J is there anymore. lists to Justin like. The origins, That man is gone was he up dead? No No, no, he's alive on this earthly plane, but he has enough money that thinkice's Justin Justin's not from this earthly plane. Is that what she just? He hasn't left this earthly plane.ive. alive.. Wh still visiting us. He what. He's an alien. Have you guys all just accepted that there's a minion back there I about security. That's. know you'd always forgot about pins and needles now that you reminded me it exist. I forgot. right now I see the hair sticking about the back of your neck now, yeah. If had any which mister Bama guy, what is the best desespicable M and or Mions movie I have not seen any of those movies. Okay, I don't have children for. you' mered. and I never will way' crazy bit. They're not very good now yeah,' O the mini, Oh, the mi. I don't think they're gonna put children either.oseest your kids areren. Yeah. I could be your child Yeah, I think I'm not cut out for parenthood. I'm sorry. I don't think I I' M mostly grown. it would be easy. Mostly grown. You know? I love that you can admit that. That's all It really fun to adopt an adult like an eighteen year old. It's fine. You do whatever you want. It's Would you like if Mr. Bomber guy adopted you U my dad might be sad and stop giving me twenties. G I was trying to figure out what you had in store. Last time you tried to make me eat silica gel I love I try to make you eat like make tracks. are the air. Yeah Yeah O this show Yeah. Yeah. mean, why are you surprised by this? That track. don't you adopt one of your coworkers? I don't think I tried to force you to, but I was just wanting you to know that you could if you wanted to. That's different. You were very much like you were gonna do it too I could have killed both of us in one. I wouldn't have died. Yes, they must haveve. I'm about you won't die. I'm right about eating silica gel. You won't d a credit card points orist st thing. I don't even think you'll get like a stomache Yeah you can also eat a lot of things and not die. No, I'm just saying there's a misconception. You can eat lots to. everyone's going around thinking you're gonna die from that and you're here to prove themm wrong. If I wanted to to eat if I wanted to go away, what do you think is in this room? Oh I went. Oh, that's a crazy fuckking question. mind. A you wna go there? Are you G away? this throaty? throaty. Yeah ad. Is this the new Lord of the Flies, Like weher has the alien control. Yeah that'. Yeah. that's throaty and that's goaty in case you were wondering. So yeah. I wanted to. Yeah we gave him names. It's a good question, really? ving second contact. Now, what are you guys talking about over there? Mad, He could be separated You fade away win and I'm like, okay, I'm safe. you exist. I don't know what to do with you people That's what I'm trying to say. D, what are you guys talking about? I had to be I had to do the serious professional thing a second ago. didid I not W I said like listen, I you say this? That's the most serious Dan's ever been in my entire life. We were talked. Dan was like Were he credit card points innt? who know. Dan was like They really are trying to not have side talk cross talkalk anymore so if we could I said. All right,' bad. went talk cross. And then we started talking and I was, o, I think we're doing some cross talkk right now. And then I felt so bad because you like put the mic down. I had to be the bad guy. No. You're not the bad guy. You are the bad guy. You were so annoyed. No, no, no, no, it's impossible not to have cross talkk on this one. Mike is lighting up eight microphones every single time.'s gonna down's going down. It's fine, yeah Yeah yeah suck it Wit, wait turnurn it off.. You don't want to adopt that. I's gonna take to man correct my behaviors. the lights on the mitor could gets to red. Oh my God, I have this. Oh Mike, what happened? You' the b You're in so much trouble. Spect some camera everybody. If you try and space hug the lens? If that's not brand excaivation, I don't know where it. I don't know if we can have a black Jeff Gub anymore. I' putting that in the train for the. I'm pretty sure it' be high light. I staying on your record Wh is this the worst thing I've ever done? I know Yeah. it's gonna be the most controversial ever ever. someone does the YouTube take down a D and they're gonna bring up all this footage. All right, I do feel like I need to rein this in a little bit.. Okay yeah, let's do it. everyone work a lot.. Save up All right Even you, Mike. What do you guys think about Fortnite Oh. Okay. so I have putting Fortnite in like In a year I was talking to Ben Starr when he was here. Sure, yeah. And he was like, I'm tired of being the bad guy in things And I was like You were the good guy And all the games I can remember you were in. What are you talking about? guess walked away He was the first Berserker and I gotta know that the first Berserker was a good guy. Yeah. I mean, I guess people were like Some people didn't like him in expisod thirty three because he replaced the good guy people liked first Okay, o Yeah, mayaybe that's what it is. I think he's just I think he's just a little pissy. He hasn't won a game award. Yeah. Oh, Okaykay Y'all gave him U o, we could do awards. That would mean a lot less, right? Yeah That would mean a ton less. You get Lucy to like give them out, right? A awards called Bommies. U just bombs Yeah, here's a bomb. We have a mascot called Bombi and I ref dont to mail it to you Hang on. Mike did this in like a meeting or was this on a pod? We were a meeting, we were talking about merch stuff. I was like,h, we should put Bommy on one. Everyone like every we were all like, who the fuck is that? likeike our bomb mascot. Is it that inste? you look at me like I was a psychopath I mean I've been here twelve years. I've never heard anyone say Bobby besides you. You have a physical manifestation of the mascot of the website There's like well, there's on shirts and stuff like that. and I put them on the stickers. I think you should commission a puppet when I was at Fanbite We towards the end of the life of the website We brought fancy. We made a we made a mascot named Fancy and their their and their head like appendage was an F And we had a person in New York make a puppet them That's I think that you y'all should make a bombie puppet. Do we have a puppet guy? We do. We do have a puppet guy. We have a puppy. know, we've never like activated them. should act p guy pupp man. activated the puppet guy.. I don't like activating things. That's good. Cup Pet h a puppet. that pupp great. That good. Puppet Yes. Hey You can buy a shirt that has the puppet on it on I am aitot com Where in my weeding activation? Where in my activation? Right here. I amit dot com You should buy a shirt with that It's free on that website. Go to alien com It's free. U the promo code. It's free. You have the wishlist. How those are right? I gotta be honest, guys, I haven't recovered since I found out that H Bomber guy knows how wet our bathroom is.' It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing We tried so hard. He tried hard for you. Yeah G you We got shot Thank do But I want to be clear, it's not pe. It is not. I want to be I was just trying to be funny. I really don't. You're causing a problem M Musa makes puppets, but she's mine so you can't you have to find. Oh. How many puppets do you have to But we've made a puppet of failed Supme Court Justice Robert Bork That's the thing we've been making for two years. That's everyone's first puppet. I don't like that you know that more than I do and I live here. Well, that's why I haven't made a video in two years. I accidentally got a law degree's worth of research in mononopoly law and now my life is fucked Like I literally have left the house like five times in the last year and two of them will go to the giant bomb those numbers, man. yeah, That's pretty good. We appreciate that. Yeah Hets take a long time to make. So that's also a lot of your time as well. It too kind of like two months to make it. I don't have to take that long When we's What is the proble What do you know? It' like make a I can make a puppet right now. if I got my sock out. It's easy Nobody wants that're I'm not taking m off. You are trying. We were so. When ex. He's looking for an excuse. When we invented mod Appreciation Day, we made the fairy M mother, which was an ethereal being that is likes mod support to people. And then we constructed into a puppet and it walks around And' a its aricity job you have Yeah Fair don't work for a giant bomb bom bomb don't work for my own adv. They work for you. No. Yeah I qu it actually. ye. should just make me like the boss boss because it'd be funny Oh good job be no in the gent shook their heads. I did such a good job with the posters. You guys like what you're in charge of the posters and I got I got. Are they free No I bought them. I didn'd even use a company card or get points for it. Oh, you're a fool, Mike I wanted to be in a situation where I have the realest job out of all the people I'm talking. No Do you have benefits know. Oh, so now we don'. It might be Nicki, ye. We have the most real job. I have insurance. Yeah. We both have insurance. I w like stock options. That's much of an issue for you.. Cold me back when you're looking just in. It might be Married I don't know. that's true. That's like the realest job I've heard of, yeah it sounds really real. Yeah, it sounds really real. Yeah Justin TV employee I think this might have been some like vandalism, but I remember I was scrolling the IMDB page for the Passion of the Christ. and yeah, like we do. And someone was in there and their job was muppeteer. And I've never seen that movie, but I would love to know what I have seen it it was. How many weapons were in it? There's no muppet The cruc fiction come to life and sing a song ye If not Jesus and the other two guys on his sides, Well, right It might have been realistic pupping. We're right, but there might' have been a gimmick Christ at some point. He say that. D they cruce other guys in that flip? Like in the real life. Oh well in the real life a lot of there were like two other like Jbrones that got crucified next to Jesus. the. I'm still left to forg it. Christ relaxed, man. You it. That's I using carny term to subscribe the crrome big It's happened tonight. I'm not mad at this. Was the Smon on the mount a shoot or a workook? I don't remember what that is. work. Okay that shit. The minion' in the corter shaking its head You l The minion. We lost the minion. Presence of the minions The minions only attach themselves to the most evil people on the planet So the implication that the minions are with Jesus Christ is crazy I thought you Jeff Cro. I you said the presence of the minions, I just pictured them as like the three wise men going to baby feood like get Well,'s just b bananas. Yeah bananas. Oh, that's bad, sry.. Are we still or we? Oh we're not We got like ten bes wow. Wow Yeah, no, we're wrapping up soon. All right, H Bomber guy, you talked about it. People do want to know when your videos coming. Is it just like So much work like you did you legit get a law degree? We're not legitimately I could have been close enough. I should have gone to a school and just it would have been on the side while I was doing it. Yeah, but it's it's like two weeks away from having like a draft that we have to like send to lawyers just in case. I don't want to get sued by the estate of any of the people who I make fun of. you know, I say all very rude things about a very litigious man. but he's dead, but his son, Robert Bork Junior is still alive. passes on. inherit the litigiousness. Yeah yeah, it's getting there. And then finally, I can have friends again. Yeah. I've not been ignoring your messages. I swear to God, I I've just been dying. I can't hold anything in his hand without it hurting anymore. I've just been doing a mouse a dump truck No, I think you asked me to be on something and I didn't see it for like two months. Oh I thought was dump drrug. I think it was Dump drug. Yeah I' only here because you I think youaged one of you managed to reach Kat and And she was like, what are you doing? I just I think I sent an email to you about this and I think like Kat just saw it or something. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah I have to rebuild a lot of friendships and family shhips when this is Or you can adopt me. Yeah, justust start a new family. Not a new family.. You gotta give him a fifty every once in a while, first in case the bathroom's wet. You can louff this up. That could be my special job keeping the bathroom dry. Please God, I would love that All right,s a bathroom We're going to get out of here. We're going to wrap this up. Thank you everybody for being here. Thank you everybody for watching. A couple of things we were presented by please wish list Aliens, fire team elite to go do that now. there is a shirt on the store. alsoso I think we still some codes left for for forbiden solitaire. If you're a new premium member, go to giantbom dot com slash join do that now the next like twentyh people, Chuck, you think, You can probably still get a code to make that happen. Thank you to this. w a Bozos, thank you to everyone who's on the couch tonight.am was up. Sehan Jan, thank you guys so much. We'll be back tomorrow night with more. Until then, we're gonna say goodbye. Thanks for watching everybody. M the time so I look so fat. PP you and me.