Late Medieval Ambition and Legacy

from long lost Viking ships and kings buried in unexpected places tales of murder, power, faith and the lives of ordinary people across medieval Europe and beyond Join me, Matt Lewis, Dr. Eleanor Yarneger, and some of the world's leading historians as we bring history's most fascinating stories to life only on history hit With your subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with a brand new release every week exploring everything from the ancient world to World WarI Just visit historyhit. com Forward slash, subscribe. Hello, I'm Matt Lewis. Welcome to Gone Medieval fromrom History Hit, a podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history We've got the most intriguing mysteries, the gobsmacking details and latest groundbreaking research from the Vikings to the printing press, from kings to popes to the crusades. We cross centuries and continents to delve into rebellions, plots and murders to find the stories big and small that tell us how we got here find out who we really were Gone medieval Blustery September morning in the year eight hundred thirty two. Two armies faced one another on a battlefield Some wayay in what is now easastern Scotland One belonged to the Picts and Scots, led by King Angus The other was an invading force from the Anglo Saxon kingdom of Northumbria Onumbered bearing annihilation Legend has it that Angus prayed for divine intervention As dawn broke overhead, a white cross appeared against the blue sky Inspired by this heavenly sign His warriors charged into battle and won a stunning victory Whether true or not, the story became one of Scotland's founding myths The white diagonal cross of St. Andrew, the Sultire remains Scotland's national flag to this day. And while the tale clearly riffts on an overused trope of medieval myth and legend, it also helps paint a helpful picture of the tensions, fishures and factions that ran through Scotland's contested medieval history. in the middle Ages. There were many Scotlands lands of Picts and Gales, Britons and Northumbrians, rival kingdoms and competing identities. By the dawn of the early modern age, these diverse peoples had been molded into a single realm, one that survived Viking invasions, resisted English conquest and emerged as one of Europe's most distinctive kingdoms I'm Matt Lewis and this is Gone Medieval Today, we're taking on the rather ambitious challenge of plotting the complete history of medieval Scotland in one episode Joining me is Professor Murray Pittick, author of the new book The Shortest History of Scotland. And together we'll journey from the Age of the Pict and the coming of St. Columba through the rise of the Kings of Alba and the Wars of Independence, to trace how a recognizably modern and vibrant Scotland forged in the crucible of the Middle Ages lcome to G Medieval Mary. It's great to be with us today to be here M, looking forward to it I mean, we've been limbering up, haven't we? We're warmed up because we're going to have a little thousand year sprint through Scottish history as quickly as we possibly can, sa That's it. All the pressure is on you We' going be ambitious. Let's start ambitious. If we're going to try and cover the whole kind of medieval history of Scotland, we need to obviously start at the beginning. So When we think about the fall of Roman Britain Who are the different kind of tribes and peoples that inhabited the land that we call Scotland? Who is there? We have some Roman names. I'm not quite sure how much faith we should put in them We have got obviously the picts. I suspect, though not identified, we got the Scots And we have the other Bithonic peoples such as the Votadini, those figures who are The heroes and the subject of the Godothan the Welsh language epic which commemorates their sixth century raid. on Katraith Catorick in Yorkshire, which led them to get a bloody nose and a bit more besides So those those are among the central ones. The pick the picts are still called the picts, but they're called that because In the fourth century they began to be called picted the painted ones by the Romans who traded with them from the Adrian' wall area and elsewhere So They're the bulk of the inhabitants of the landmass that we now call Scotland But although we used to think that The Scots came in as kind of Irish invaders in the fifth century it's all a bit nineteenth century. If you look at very early Irish traditions probablyro looking at a borderless. Irish Scottish world in which There's Gaelic, although basically they were the same language then and much later. can write across an area from the western shores of what is now Scotland to Ct in Ireland Is there very much that separates those groups of people either in terms of culture or religion Religions are rather hard again to be exact about. In terms of culture too, you can see the basis of you perhaps can even see it down'm being maybe a little bit fanciful in the great hill forts like Taplin Lw in the southeast of Scotland other the things that become central to Scottish experience association of familyily association of institution or group as it was then rather institution, and association of place Who are you related to? How do we know each other? Where do you come from those questions and I think All the peoples of what became Scotland have to some degree Of course, we know the picts the Picts and Scots best. And the picts too, probably like the Voterini, if indeed the Votadini can really be distinguished from the picts are brthonic speakers That is Wels speakers functionally And you sort of alluded to my next question, but I was going to ask about how important that connection to Ireland was for the West of Scotland and whether we should see the West of Scotland as almost part of an Irish group at that point that I probably wouldn't I mean, yes, except I probably wouldn't use the term Irish. But I think the key element is is that it was in not until the twelfth century papery started to request that Sotty. was used as a Latin term to describe Scots and not interchangeably to describe Irtish and Scots mostly Irish, but sometimes Scots. They were not fundamentally distinct Groups then I wouldn't want to call them Irish either if it would to mean. They are a Scottish nor Scotch Irish, which is a different American term, but they are fundamentally Gelic speakers who are ethno culturally U'm the ancestors of many of today's Scots and Irish people living in a continuum right across Scotland, western Scotland and Ireland And one of the really early beneficiaries that we hear about of that continuum that you talk about is St. Columba. Can you tell us a little bit about who he is and the work that he does to Christianize Scotland? Well, St. Columba was a member of the Irish nobility of Princecy familyamily And he he comes to Scotland or rather to I suppose what we might He's active both with the Ps and the Scots, but sets up the monastery at Iona, which is very much in the Scoto Irish or Scoti kind of world in the West coming from a situation where he's effectively probably mixed up in a murder in what is now Ireland but becomes nonetheless an important religious leader. and one of the things he does is he He carries out close relationships and relationship building with the kings of Scotia and the k of Kings of Pickland And as a result from Columbus Alliance with the Cown crowns at that stage comes the development of a medieval Scottish poly, which very closely links King and the church. and person of Columba as the symbol Oh ical and royal authority And of course, there Adrien his monk who writes The Life of St. Columba was very important too in spreading the image and story Columba and of course, in the life of St. Columb, we get the first reference to the Lochess monster at least it happens to be in the river nest, but let's not worry too much about details No no. we'll just keep it in slepness So should we consider that that early connection between the church and the state, for want of a better phrase, Is that important in the development of Scottish nationhood from that point onwards It is, I think I think the Senator Whitby and the resolution of the Date of Easter in the seventh century, which is seen fundamentally by In the nineteenth century it' seen as some kind of struggle between the ancient Celtic Church and alien Catholic power, but it is actually really a debate between a left behind group who hadn't yet caught up with the changing dates way of calculating the date of Easter and modern thought passed then for modern thought within the Western Catholic Church The sense of the crown and the church as involved in a project of Joint mutual support of modernization, both then and much later in the reign of Beel Co III and Queen Margaret becomes Saint Margaret. also does a great deal to change and develop and improve the Scottish Church though without despising its past, but it brings it more into the perhaps and more into the European mainstream Yes, that remains absolutely central to the way in which the church and crown developed together in Scotland not least in the, you know, David I first in the twelfth century is called a Ser Sank for the Con. because he imports and develops and pays for so many religious foundations and in doing that, he stretches the Scottish state's ability to pay And by the time of the little ice age, when cl the climate was turning down and Scotland has not so productive as it had been at the close of the thirteenth century Th then that was one of the things that triggered the Reformation because Scotland a huge amount Oh productive capacity invested in the church and in religious orders From around the eighth century, we begin to see the emergence of some much more clearly kind of defined Scottish kingdoms like Ala and outcleut that goes on to become Strathclyde and Benicia. Why do you think we're beginning to see these things solidify. And do you think there's any influence there from increasing Viking incursions The short answer to that is, yes, I mean, at least some part of the crystallisation of politics in Scotland comes from external pressure two kinds of external pressure. First of all pressure from Northumbria and Veniciia is really part of the Northumbrian realm to the south and also pressure from the Vikings from the end of the eight beginning of the ninth century from the north and east I think there's also the question as the extent to which Reged, as it's called and some of the kingom some of the Welsh speaking kingdoms in What's now the northwest of England and Alt Strath Clyde have a commonality in the sense that we know very little about them Really But they probably have a strong degree of cultural commonality is permanently because they're both Welsh speakers and they don't think they're English and Scots. They think they're the same sorts of people and they probably are. the extent to which political borders are important between them is I think maybe a bit moot in the early part of this period, certainly Streth Clyde Otlt never recovers from The Viking siege of eight hundred seventy on Dubbarton Rock their hilltop capital And although they move the head of the kingdom to govern in what is now Glasgow, they never I think properly recover from the strength they had before that. It's very interesting because that's the same year eight hundred seventy that a huge army is raised in England by the Danes. for the Viking Kingdom of York to challenge effectively those first few years of the reign of Alfred the Great a huge challenges from Vikings in England too. so There's a degree of similarity in the emergence of both England and Scotland as politities and they actually develop at the same time. So when Constantine second defeats the Vikings at Strutne in nine hundred four h he's the you know, it's the last king to be called King of the Picks and King of the Scots We traditionally associate the Scottish Kingdom uniting Kenneth McCalpen in the eight forties, but that's more of a convenience He was probably king of both, but there had been kings of both before but really by the time of Constantine II, but likewise it was really Edward the Elder and even more clearly Athelstan, who united of the English Kingdom and that's really very close in time to the uniting of the Scottish Kingdom under Constantine But the critical reason probably two reasons why a different kingdom developed in the north of the island. The first is quite simply Hagan's Wall and the persistence of the warall. after all, the Kingdom of Scots always wanted the land at least to the wall until the thirteenth century They didn't always have it, but they intended to pursue. And also the second is the defeat of the Northumbrian War band by Briday IId and his allies at Dunakan near Ffar in eighty six eighty five So I mean, that probably is the first decisive battle of what becomes Scottish history because it stops Northumbrian incursion into Scotland. Yeah ye And how significant during this period are the kings of Alba first Kings's really of Alpa as it's term is uses are constantine II and his successors rather than Kings of the Scots and Picks. There's a Scottish habit which you can discern early in the medieval period of being more aggressive than you can actually get away with. And u Constrant Tine gets himself fundamentally in trouble with Athelstn. who makes Athelstan has got designs in being of being Brett Valda Olord of the whole of the Roman province of Britania. But he also has designs on places that were outside the Roman provroince of Britannia in Scotland. and he defeats Constantine. Constantine is effectively goes down to Buckingham. to give homage to Aklstam as a sub king. He's given the first place among sub kings in the island, but nonetheless It seems to have annoyed him becausecause the first thing he does when he goes back is raise a great Allied army with the Danes in the North of England to attack and hopefully overthrow Athelstan. And the battle takes place the best site we have. We're not certain is in the widle U Bunnamba and Constantine is defeated. I have to say it was a trier. I mean it must have been getting him on for seventy when that battle was fought But he was clearly so determined not to accept Athelstan's overlordship He went for total overthrow. and lost. Yeah, which does point to a clearly kind of defined and identifiable sense of of Scottishness and independence, at least from England as it's emerging at this point. So in Constantine's mind and those of his followers, there must have been a sense that they were Scottish now Well, I think we don't Probably there's still a number of peoples in Scotland. in fact we know there are a number of peoples in Scotland to identify separately. the however It's also how your enemies identify you. So the Anglo Saxons start using the term Scots in the early mid tenth century So yes They are identifying the forces opposing them as a unitary force. sometimes of course These things aren't M but they're categorized as such by those fighting them and occasionally by themselves So that seems to have happened to some extent And is it around this time too that we get the emergence of the St. Andrews Sultire as the kind of flag of Scotland? allegedly So it's of an earlier an even earlier date and is supposed to have appeared in Lothhe as a sign in the sky and not two jet trails, but two traces of cloud crossed over a blue sky But we don't actually see it used by the Scotland explicitly or by the Scottish arrmy until much later in the medieval period So it's possibly there, but we don't know it's there. They might just have been giving it sort of ancient origins, mythical origins when they start using it. Indeed. It's not one which has got claims to be the oldest flag with a Danish flag in Europe whether it is or not is another matter. I'm not going to disagree. How do the Kings of Alba then start to spread their influence south because they'll reach out into areas that are by Northumbria for example, they arere we seeing them take advantage there of again, Viking incursions into England and the Norman invasion in the south of England? Are the Scots in the North seeing that as an opportunity for them to take some land The Scots in ten eighteen at Caram effectively drive Northumbria out of what is now Scotland and that starts to shift the border to the tweed Northumbria uil that point probably hard thirty miles or thirty five miles of territory inside what's now Scotham or the East coast But Scotland was taking advantage of what I think is you know this is not how it features in English history, but what was effectively the collapse of the Anglo Saxon kingdom Ethel read the Unread' incompetence and brutality the fact that First of all, swaying Fortbeard and then his suuccessor Canute. and it into a Danish or quasi Danish polity So there were a lot of problems and it wasn't until Edward the Confessor came to power in ten forty two that Scott's ambitions were reined in after the conquest. There is a real geopolitical moment when Edgar Athling, the heir presumptive to the throne after the death of Harold I second Hastings and visitors to the British Museum this summer can decide whether or not he's being knocked down by he's being knocked down by a spear or an arrow Both are possible in the vayer tapestry Edgar Affling and his sister Marg under the Scottish court and male come the third marries Margaret and he also tries to support Northumbria. always a semi attached party. So rather later than this, in some ways, a semi detached part of the English kingdom but to support Northumbria as a stalking horse push William Bush William out or at least partarkly out possible Zgar Aling had promised Melcolm Yorkshire as well as Northumberland if he were to restore him to the Saxon throne doesnn't work William responds as William and his successors certainly knew how utmost brutality And Milam IId falls back into Scotland He keeps on, I mean, his children by Margaret, all of very robust Anglo Saxon names and he's obviously looking possibility of children by his first Celtter norse wife being son and heir there becoming king of Scots possibly one of his sons by Margaret. becoming king in England So once again,' this inordinate one might say geopolitical level of ambition for somebody who is much less well off than William in terms of troops resources Power 's dreaming big though. you've got to love that He's dreaming big and then of course he gets killed in a squabble at Ank in ten ninety three. So that is the end of him How much of a sense do we have about how the Scots Kingdom is governed at this point? Is there an identifiable capital? Is it quite a centralized system or is it delegated into regions? No, it's very decentralized effectively, there are large scale Lords in term of peace, military leaders in terms of war, which we call more mayors The term is a bit slippery Some more mayors thought of themselves, particularly those from the family of Macbeth who of course became King of Scots as sub kings, if or indeed kings, and their persistent problems from that family against what you might call the central power, but the central would have to be an inverted commerce And some became great territorial probably became the great territorial magnates like the Eer Fife who succeeded them One of the things you see about in Scotland as opposed to England is that Lordships and names such as Earl of Fife are linked with lots of lands in Fife Wh does The Duke of Norfolk say may have tons of lands in Yorkshire And you know, the Earl of Surimay a lot of the times in the North as well, that they're not linked clearly linked to geographical leadership, but in Scotland they really do tend to be. and that's a difference which reflects the decented nature of the politity If we were to go slightly later in that was in some ways part of the salvation of Scotland. because to some extent some of the Franco Norman nobility who are not didn't conquer but were invited in King David I F. in the twelfth century, although they'd actually been first invited in by Macbeth in the ten fifties, but not to settle But some of them in the twelfth century thought to themselves May they made kindred who held title in England and certainly in France that actually The Scots king was significantly less able tell them what to do. I mean, of course they'd still did a lot of what they wanted to do in England and France, but the Scots King was really a lot less able at holding them back. And so They thought time came of crisis at the end of the thirteenth century, well, we might support the Scots King because actuallyct We get to do what we like here, so that's all right And we begin to see a period from kind of the twelfth century onwards in which under kind of David the first, William the Lion, Alexander I second. There's this switching between kind of allying with the English and fighting against the English and they tend to have fairly generally quite bad relationships with the Plantagenate kings, but sometimes not quite so bad too Why do you think Scottish kings are becoming so connected to English kings at this point. Well, I think first of all Scotland provides under David I first, Scotland provides again advantageously because England's got a civil war between Stephen and Matilda a major political and military threat to England. The Scots crrown backs Tilda because She' She is the Holy Roman Empress and she is also the granddaughter of Mael Colum III So she is Scotland's, if you think by that biggest geopolitical counter. And in doing so, David I first The English crown still wants to claim so the English Church wants to claim Susar ande over the Scottish Church David the first argues that there should be a I mean there are arguments for the Scots having theajority of their own church as they come to do. But David actually thinks about settling up the headship of the primacy of the church at York because he has every intention of capturing you And he doesn't he's not far off it. he exertits very significant power across the North of England more than any other Scottish king does and sets up a reaction because Stepehen dies in eleven fifty four succeeded by Henry II Henry I second is even at this distance, a hell of a tough bastard. David has just died David Sullanair has just died and we're left with the teenage Mor Column the Fth who goes to see, you know, Henry to I'm sure that he's claims can be upheld and thenry tells him to sd off basically and that he's got to sign up for giving them all away And basically he backs down because he's a teenager and Hry's a thug And also, Henry is quite prepared to deploy not only English power, but now the lands of his queen which involve very significant possessions in the West of France. So he's a very powerful king And then When William the Lion comes to contest with Henry And indeed, indeed, he dedicates the Arbraammi to Stt Thomas a Becket particularly just the thumby his nose at Henry because Henry's had Thomas thebecket killed He loses critically effectively becomes a dependent of the English king and Henry is allowed to intrude S English occupation in theory anyway, to some extent in practice into southern Scotland and also hold, you know William effectively under his thumb it's very dynamic at this stage because Richard I F who really wants to go and kill Saracens in the Holy Land basically allows William to buy back all his rights with a substantial cash payment, which the Scottish state raises King and William continues then to extend his power in Scotland, but once again runs into trouble because he's seen as too close to foreign interests It needs John to help him put down a revolt in twenty eleven twelve It's all over the place. then The biggest, I think the thing that probably comes to a non Scottish to some Scottish audiences comes as the most surprising answer to a question how far a Scottish army ever advanced into England occurs in twelve, fifteen sixteen? When Alexander II taking advantage of John's weakness at this point brings Scotland's army to Dover. with the aim of which he does of offering homage to King Louis of France for a whole range of lands he's taken over in the North of England. And it must be said the barons in Yorkshire submit and the North generally submit to Alexander II And it's only because the King Louis is eventually defeated by the now John dies fortuitously and Henry IId comes to part only because the French king is defeated does Alexander II lose a very advantageous position? does lose it, eventually He has to put up with the quick claim of York. in twelve thirty seven, which means fundamental that Scotland gives up its claim to the northern counties of England down to the wall and in some cases beyond And it establishes what is perhaps Andora has a case, but I'm quite sure how good a case it is What is argu to be the earliest land border in Scotland? becausecause apart from Bedic and a few square kilometers round the solway for debatable land rather sol wayay for us border set at the quick cllaim of Yorkwich in England and Scotland almost eight hundred years ago is the border we have today. I'm always fascinated during this period during the anarchy with David and as you mentioned there with Alexander, know, getting submission from the barons of the North of England The English in the North at least don't seem too concerned about being ruled by Scotland. You know when David is in charge of the North of Scotland, everyone seems actually fairly comfortable with it Absolutely. I don't think it's a big deal for the baronial classes at this stage. I think it's probably and indeed possibly for ordinary people, it's harder to know. I think it's probably the extent of wars in around the Scottish Wars of indndependence and the extent of attacks on the North of England by the Scottish crrown in that period, which are critical. it must be said that They were slaving raids on the North of England to carry off principally women, but not just women for enslavement in Scotland, which can't exactly have been popular How significant a problem for Scotland was the death of Alexander III without a clear male heir because they've had a good long strong run of kings by this point. It was enormously significant abbsolutely enormous Margaret Wh was the heir course once again like Male Cn the fourth It was Scotland's misfortune to have highly aggressive and very well armed and organized Pantaginate king in the shape of Edward I on the throne south of the border Margaret dies on the voyage to Scotland and effectively and interregnum succeeds And u Edward is called into adjudicate because there isn't a clear successor to the crown And he makes certain claims. he won't adjudicate unless people say that he's the prereme authority Although sometimes in later controversy it has made a lot of I think for most People It wasn't necessarily a big deal to say Edward, you're the suupreme authority here They weren't saying, yeah, you owners lock stock and barrel It was a formal submission so that he could make the decision But of course, it was to have terrifificically bad consequences because he chose King John rather than the very elderly Robert the F to Bruce, Robert the competitor. who was probably which shows the other medieval he was probably seventy seven. A the time that John Baaliial became king compometitive was seventy seven. so Medieval people didn't always peg out at forty five But John Baileil course Drawing on They significantly Frankco Norman and French sympathizing nobility included the old Alliance with France in twelve ninety six and that was quite clearly seen by with the first as a stab in the back. It's not as if this hadn't coming Scots were active on the French side in crusades in the thirteenth century There's very clear tendency under Alexander I second and Alexander I third to move closer to France And Alexander III's time, people start to complain about English barons or those Tarly his majority of they're interest in England, a whole land in Scotland So The old Alliance is coming before it's you know, sign sealed and delivered But Edward Edward I first is absolutely intlerable. He invades Scotland. and of course Bariel being the strategic genius he wasn't has effectively meets him at Dumbar in East Lothian, effectively basically a very disadvantageous ground Just when Edward's supply chains are fully intact He's just crossed the border. let's stop him at once. Basically the further north you try to stop him, the more chance you've got And Jrhon Badle is beaten and effectively runs up the east coast and is overtaken and has to surrender his badges and clothes of royal office so becomes what was called toomb to Bard to coat. you got nothing left. I mean Does the old Alliance point to a Scottish desire to really get out from this idea of English overlordship, that they're looking for allies somewhere else that can bolster their ability to remain independent from England So I think in in the early stages it is more the still that is Franco Norman nobility seeing actually Scotland as an ad as a more advantageous base for themselves than England or at least one worth cultivating and one that's prepared to reach out to France which of course gives Scot an extra power, but the Scottish kings until the Wars of indndependence, really The Scottish kings do and sometimes afterwards habitually overestimate their actual capacity to compete with England So I'm not sure they realized how potentially weak they were. and it's worth noting that when it comes to, say the papal tax terms in twelve ninety six, The Diocese of St. Andrews is not far away from the Dioces of Canterbury in terms of value. Scotland's richest diocese in the centrer and south of the country are quite close to English competitors So They probably weren't as economically disparate as they later became. I look how this is becoming the almost continual story though of Scotland sort of overreaching, over inflating its own ability to achieve things that it can never quite achieve. I mean, this period of the Wars of Independence is it's packed with huge names William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, battles at Stterling Bridge and at Bannockburn. Do we see a really solidifying sense of Scottish nationhood? Is it changing during this period? Is it becoming something different than it has been up until this point One my own view is it's probably there in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, undoubtedly, it gets a big boost from the warar of indndependence. I mean, that's, you know what commommon sacrifices, which were the way in which both Abraham Lincoln and later Ernest Renon referred to nation building are very important and there was an awful lot of common sacrifice in Scotland in the fifty years from twelve ninety six So yeah, that was it was important. But also what was important was a formulation of one has to say, some of the most advanced political ideas available certainly in Europe and possibly globally at the time and of it and which were put forward initially by Scotland's leading overseas academic voice, Dun Scotus The Blessed John of Dunes, as prorofessor of Paris in thirteen hundred and were used as arguments or some of the arguments by Baldrred Bisett, who was a Scottish not yet that stage was to become a Scottish archdacon professor of Civil Lw Bologna who brought Scotland's case to the papal couer in thirteen oh one, Scotis argued that human communities had the right to choose their own leaders and those leaders are used it to protect them. And once they were chosen They weren't, as Hobbs would later argue, chosen for all time. Tough luck if he's a nat case, he's your nap case but they could be chosen at intervals and replaced So kind of thinking and also from somebody who as an individual thinker primary thinker about freedom in the medieval period. mean because Sot is the philosopher of individual freedom, what constitutes our freedom freedom of will theologically and personally, as well as talking about the freedom of nations Absolutely. It right influences the dececlaration of our growth, which is crystallizes much of this and the references to Scottish freedom and which you can find in the great poem for later fortteieth century poem about Bruce's campaign, Bara archdeacon of Barba's the Bruce Our freedom is a noble thing, freedom make man have liking Freedom more solace a man gives. He lives at ease that freely lives and the great opposition which Bara makes in the poem between freedom is the principle of the individual and national as against tyranny entthraldom, enslavement to another to another king, another country. and having We've constantly talked about the Scott sort of having ideas bigger than they were capable of perhaps delivering. This is a moment where we see them defeat what is at least on paper a more powerful English kingdom Why do you think they're able to do this? Is it simply the incompetence of Edward II in England, orr is there something else going on that's tipping the scales in Scotland's favor? No that Robert the Bruce is one of the leading military geniuses of the medieval period And he has some very, very strong supporters such as Randald Elam Maray and Sir James Douglass F the tru I think the first victory he wins after his initial series of defeats Robert. doesn't lose Another battle Throughout his battle ridden career for more than twenty years, he just doesn't lose He beats his Scottish opponents, he beats his English opponents. He beats Edward I first at Bannet Barn. He beats Edward II's army at Bighland in Yorkshire in thirteen twenty two with huge loss of life He beats Ed with the Third's Amy in Weirdale and That's the difference. he almost through his brother Edward takes over the whole of Ireland He's got ambitions to create countervailing scooty type Scottish Irish polity which will put enormous pressure. given the relative sizes, we don't have the industrial Revolution as a population here. on the English politity. So yes, Robert Bruce is extremely ambitious. and he he comes very close. does succeed personally getting it all right. But nobody else could quite manage what he'd done Yeah, so we ought to be looking at his brilliance rather than anything else. I think so I mean, people still prefer Wallace because Wallace was not an ordinary bloke. Wallace was a tough by anybody's calculations, but T most peopleallace in Scotland wallace is seen as an ordinary bloke P people prefer the ordinary bloke who is an underdog who lost You know, that's what that's of course of a Scottish and perhaps a British feature of preferring the underdog Bruce is not an underdog. Bruce was a winner And Scotland exists today because of King Robert I As we move on from the success in the warar of independence through the kind of fourteenth and fifteenth century, do we see As a result of this, do we see a newly confident Scotland? Do we see kind of cultural and economic growth and vibrance, partly as a result of the victories in the Wars of Iependence ult I think probably Scotland struggles to be as well off as it was under Alexander III actually, because the Wars of independence take a huge toll economically Robert has a policy of basically destroying all castles that might be occupied So although castles aren't modern scale economic loci, they certainly are at a medieval scale. That's quite important the kind of market provided by a well occupied castle. The climate is perhaps a little bit later starting to turn against Scotland in terms of can achieve But there are a lot of achievements And one of the things is that you'd see and this is evident even before King Robert is the early formation of quite sophisticated institutions First of all, the widespread creation of ba grammar schools in the twelfth and thirteenth century Universities from St. Andrews in fourteen eleven And, you know, by the even to the eighteenth century, Scotland had the largest number of places for university per capita in Europe and organizations like the Faculty of Advocates the effect of the legal profession and with rights to plead in fifteen thirty two and later on society of writers to the Signnet and others So I know we're going slightly towards the end of the medieval period now, but there there is a continuum of of the creation of quite significant institutions. to worlds educational and professional development. And there's also a lot of Scots who Go abroad. They repatriate some wealth. It's difficult to say how much into Scotland in this period. So one of the things is as Scotland becomes finds it more difficult to sustain export markets at scale because it's doesn't and its tastes are are getting more and more expensive And its exports are with the exception of some luxuries like salmon fairly routine that actually what Scotts start to do is to go and set up business in the receiving ports in Rotterdam in the Baltic in Norway to try not only control trade which they're involved in, but also to control the export trade insof as they can from those destinations So The sense of Scottish engagement with Europe and European institutions and Scottish export of many of its elites to actually spend time in European cities or to settle there is a medieval initiative. and it makes a significant difference to the way which Scotland develops as a kingdom And as we move later on in the medieval period status of the people that the kings of Scots marry in general keeps on rising. and eventually, of course, to the stage where the daughter of the King of Scots is a fit match for the future king of France de. The old Alliance continues to be incredibly important through this period too. We quite often see Scots forces fighting with the French in the Hundred Years War in France. Do we see Scotland talked a little bit there about the ways in which they are focusing on the continent rather than the British Isles maybe in terms of trade, do we see them having a much more continental outlook than than perhaps England does I think England's got I think England's huge contribution to the international w trade is and the low countries is a continental outlook probably Scotland' a sl more diverse. I mean, it's not the Scots don't want to trade with England, though some of them aren't very keen on the idea no doubt. and you do get lots of comments about Nationality is not really a modern thing You do get lots of comments about people from England and Scotland in both sides of the border in the medieval period. There are only fifty Scots in London as late as fifteen sixty seven And you know, the council of Aberdeen in the fifteenth century, we're very fortunate with Aberdeen. We've got but councilmutess dating back to thirteen ninety eight h in the fifteenth century Tice issues orders to the population of the city So the English who' come into the city because they're just making a pilgrimage to a saint. they're not actually doing anything that's inappropriate at all. But actually it's about controlling the popular popular anger and resentment rather than actually being an elite construct But basically the real issue for trade is that C is much quicker. And on the west coast, Scotland also continues to remain close to what is now Ireland because sea is much quicker, that's a sea driven society. So that's a big reason for Scotland having a different ident medieval period too. But there are very significant donations of Scottish troops and administrators to France of the hundredundred Years War, and this also helps to crystallize nationality, the disaster of The defeat of the Duke of Clarence at Buet in fourteen eighteen. att the hands of the Earl of Buchham supported by French troops with ten thousand Scots on the field is crystallizing moment for Scottish reputation history in France, and when Joan of Art comes to liiberate Orleans and what's the turning point of the war in fourteen thirty. You know, it's allegedly the march of what is now known as the March of the soldiers of Robert Bruce the traditional t Ti ti is played. at the final storm. where she's accompanied by the Scots Guard And indeed, in the first attempts to relieve Orleans, there's a monument in the city today to Patrick Olby who commanded those attempts and also Joan ofart was received by Scots a bishop from Fife Who is the Bishop of Orleans When she entered the c when she entered the city in fourteen twenty nine. To this day, the much of the solder of Robert Bruce is one of the most significant French military marches and is pid in state funerals in France byia on the pipes So absolutely, there is a real and probably still under researched and underdveloped crystallization there where Significant numbers of the Scottish elites are engaged in France and to some extent, to more limited extent, vice versa I mean, we've've I say, we've done an incredible job. You've done an incredible job, Barry of getting us through almost a thousand years of Scottish history in under an hour. So just to too conclude, just to sum up, when we get to the end of the medieval period kind of situation would you say Scotland is in internally? Is it now confident strong kingdom that is free from kind of threats of being overtaken by England. Has it stepped firmly out of England's shadow now? Well, I think that was always its aim and from the granting of the imperial crown, the closed crown in thirteen twenty nine which was the ambition of medieval Scots kings Certainly the Stuart Dead. very well presenting Scotland as a powerful and independent European kingdom with increasing status. onnce again They showed enormous levels of overconfidence B in the in both in the historic defeat of James I fourth at Flora in fifteen thirteen and even terms of the development of James' navy because the Prince Michael one of the largest ships of its day in Europe was in fact the ship that was answered by Henry VIII with the Honri Gracadieu you, some years later So They were an arms race But really, this was an arms race. they couldn't win and That was once again what we might call a sign of Scottish over ambition, which you can see in the gift of the Duke of Burgundy of M still this extant of Mon's Meg in Edinburgh Castle to James I second. one of the largest bombards of its day. huge piece of artillery Banging Mons makes belli fu was the statement made as late as the eighteenth century of Scotland for having sex inside M's meg, which you could just about do, especially if you were small and not particularly active. But it's got a huge calibre of gun and it represented the kind of ambition of the late Stuart Kings to to compete. Once again They couldn't do it. I find myself liking this over ambition though. I've enjoyed all of the stories of them believing they can do these things, even if it turns out that most of the time they can't I think that the interesting is and I don't would to take it outside of period is that actually that it's in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries that they find that they can And in a way, Scotland is probably in the contemporary era as less ambitious than it's ever been. there's a challenge there's rallying cry. orr an observation. Something's really changed because you can see in the Braggadoccio and invention and the sheer will dominate in eighteenth to nineteenth century Scots, the platform by the British Empire They can do this. which they've never been able to do before and they always wanted to Well this has been absolutely fascinating, Murie. so thank you so much for taking us through a fascinating millennium of Scottish history in under an hour. You've delivered as promised and I found it all absolutely fascinating. So thank you very much for joining us. it's been a pleasure, Matt. Thanks for letising me, Ram along Not at all, thank you Murray's book The Shortest History of Scotland is out now if you'd like to discover even more about this nation's history You can find episodes in our back catalogue on the Viking Siege of Donbarten and the Declaration of our growth that Murray mentioned as we were talking There are new installments of God Medieval every Tuesday and Friday, so please come back to join Eleanor and I for more from the greatest millennium in human history.