The White Ship Disaster

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Hello, I'm Dr. Ellan Oriianga, and welcome to Gone Medieval fromrom History Hit a podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history We uncover the greatest mysteries Gobspacking details and the latest groundbreaking research from the Vikings to the Normans From Kings to popes to the crusades We delve into the rebellions, plots, and murders that tell us who we really were And how we got here Erfur, Germany eleven eighty four In the Holy Roman Empire, a group of nobles gathers in the city on a hot summer's day for what should be a routine assembly It's an opportunity to settle disputes reaffirm alliances and conduct the usual business of power Gathered in the upper room of an ancient church The hall fills with men of rank and influence Lords and landholders Cophony of voices rising and falling and greeting argument The heat is thick and heavy within the old stone walls Beneath the press of bodies Unseen, but ever present. is a cesspit Oflowing from neglect The floorboards creak as more men arrive. And something about the structure begins to feel less certain Quietly at first, imperceptible to those in the heat of politics and power making Then, without warning The story takes a turn no one could have anticipated. Between sixty and one hundred of those gathered are about to meet their maker submerged and swallowed up in No The most unappealing possible way Listen, everybody makes mistakes We've all done something dafted, something ill judged somethingomething that didn't quite go to plan And medieval people were no different. But what if your actions or lack of them are so terribly misguided The situation you find yourself in is so negligent It doesn't just finish badly people basically dying But it ends up in the historical record Rembered for centuries for just how gruesomely bizarre it is Today, I've bribed the guards to release Matt Lewis from his duties Cleaning out the cesspit beneath history hit towers and slilling out the pigs for a special game of top trumps. in which we try to outdo each other with the most absurd deaths and foolish fatalities of the medieval period These are the deaths that make you pause Whennce feel a little bit par about your own worst decisions Okay, Matt Here we go. listen We are letting you up From the dungeon so we can gamble Right. Okay Absolutely. I'm going to start us off Okay, I've been allowed up from the dungeon, but I'm going to take us down even further than that. I'm to start us off with the effirfort Latrine des A. I mean there is not a word of that that doesn't sound like an amazing story, is there? I mean, this has got to be one of the most classic talales of how not to die. from the medieval period, right? Like is this has got to be up there in terms of ways that you don't want to go. It's got household recognition for medievalists, I think we could say that why don't you talk the lovely listeners through The spes How to die in a toilet? I mean, not for the last time today, How to d in a toilet? So we are here in the summer of eleven eighty four. So right in July, it's lovely and warm Imagine everything is steaming and smelling lovely. And Henry the Sick in the Holy Roman Empire is trying to Abitrate a land dispute, a couple of his nobles are arguing Nothing too new there. He decides to get them all together in a big room, bang their heads together, and sort it all out And they all get together in this room on a kind of second floor of a building. There seems to be some dispute about which building precisely it was. so notot one hundred percent sure. but they're apparently on a second floor of a building Everybody crams in there and You can only imagine, I think that there's this kind of creaky breaky noise because it turns out there's some rotten joists in the floor that they're standing on So as these kind of sixty or more people pile into this room Crash bang The floor falls through A whole lot of people fall through the floor with it, and we're told they also the weight of them crashes through the the first floor as well underneath the first floor, bigig stinking underground cess pit all of the toilets for this place are directed in here So the accounts tell us that There may be sixty people die during this from a variety of crush injuries Drowning in a pile of poo. I mean that's a pretty bad way to go broken bones, all kinds of injuries Interestingly though, Henry VI and one of his I think archbishops who were there I kind of say because they're sitting in a a stone alcove in a window. So you know, they're chilling out by the window and the floor falls out and they're sort of left there sitting think it Butooks today Dy What do we do? And they have to sit there people turn up with ladders to the windows to try and rescue them And yeah, you need the It's a pretty horrible way to go. So the way we're going to try and work some of these, we're going to give them all kind of scores on our little Tump's g So The first category we've got is kind of a level of absurdity Out of five And I've gone for five here because it's impossible not to laugh at sixty noblemen falling into a pile of poo. You know, it couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of people So absolutely ye ye The second category that we've got is the political impact of the absurd death that we're talking about And I've kind of gone for it to here in that It has fairly local significance. The Holy Roman Empire emperor doesn't die. So there isn't that kind of huge crisis that that would cause. There's some local, you know several counts. are killed in this disaster. So there is some local kind of fallout from it, but it doesn't seem to cause a big political disaster. so I've gone pretty low political impact for it And then the third category that we've got for each of these is kind of believability. How sure are we that this actually happened And I've gone for a four out of five on this because we do have several accounts. give us the details of it. Again, they're not sure where it happens precisely, but they seem pretty clear. bothoth about the details and the fact that this did really happen. so We've got kind of a total score of eleven out of fifteen for the air for Latrine disaster, which seems pretty low for essentially Ph people dying in a toilet Well listen, we simply love to see it to a certain extent. You just know the peasants were laughing for months. I do think fundamentally, it is just kind of like a fun factoid, right? And it is a pretty fun factoid, like I mean, no shade. I don't want to die in a pile of poo either. That would be awful. But I think that you are bang on here. It doesn't have any wide reaching ramifications mostly just as something that gets brought up as a bit of a laugh Which also kind of goes to show you how people really feel about nobility generally. I mean, even now they're like, you know, no one was really saying, oh, we should all feel awful for all these nobles even at the time. So I think I think you're pretty bang on there. Yeah. Yeah I mean I think toilet humour, you know, is timeless. So tr Push people dying in a toilet feels like a strong start for us, I think. So you now need to come up with something, you need to come up with an absurd medieval death that beats one of my degrees there Okay, well Get ready with me. because I am bringing to the table God free The hunchbat Do this ring a bell? and what a Yeah What a night to be. Yeah, all right. Press your mind back. We're going, we're going back in time From air for Litine disaster, We are going to ten seventy six, okay And we have got Godfrey IV and he is the Duke of Lower Lorraine. H is attacked Well on a traine. Okaykay? So they like, listen, we got to l the bridge to the literine, right And this happens in Antwerp. So you know we're talking about like a really incredibly fancy place. You know being the Duke of Lower Lorraine is rather a big deal. These are towns that are incredibly important in terms of the cloth trade. is kindind of odd to have like a fancy lad of this calibur struck in such a way. So okay, listen more particularly The way that he is attacked is him From below You. So this not this isn't him falling into the toilet, this is the toilet coming to get him That is right. So, you know, he's he's using the toilet as one does in Perfect oblivion An assassin him with a spear from underneath. Wh You know, listen, we don't love it. It's not exactly the way that anybody wants to be attacked at all. You don't want to feel vulnerable. evenven anyway, you know, like as a general rule of thumb, but certainly not when you got your literal pants down. I mean, come on, right? And also what kind of sucks for him is this is sort of a slow Right? You know, getting with a spear, it's not very nice. It's not very nice, but it's also not very fast. Right? You know, there are internal injuries, there's bleeding out Also probably, I would imagine if you're poked with a spear from within a latrine, we are probably going to be looking at some infection issues So it's not a very fast thing which isn't particularly great for pull Godfrey here, right? Yeah? I mean I kind of feel I feel two things with this. I mean How can not even go toilet in peace anymore? I mean know of all the places in the world where you might have expected to enjoy a little bit of me time not have to worry about anything else But I feel like we need a shout out to the assassin as well. I mean, this is clearly a guy who's sitting under the toilet Waiting for the right bottom to appear above him. How is experent Right? Like this is this is one of the things I'm like I like was did he give it a lineup? Do you think that someone would like, you know, drew the bum in question and was like, take a lookout for that one? orr you know, did he ask his compression of Godfrey's backside You know, who' doing the research on this? How many people did they have working on the case, right It seems like a bit of a miss. I mean, Is this a private Godfreree toilet or are you passing over several people who are above you relieving themselves and thinking this isn't my time I mean because this is the thing, right? I don't think that we have that many examples of absolutely perfectly private toilets at the time. You know, this is the Middle Ages. L that's not that's not usually how things go. You've just sort of got alaine that is handy. Now maybe If it's the middle of the night, you know, this is the latrine that is closest to Godfrey's bedroom. But even then people don't sleep alone, right? So yeah, like how do we know if that's the bum? Did he just get lucky There are so many questions surrounding this particular this story. But I mean also I think it's important to point out that this is kind of happening as a result of a lot of the power struggles that are happening in the Holy Roman Empire at the time Right? like you will know For example, that my good friend and yours, Matilda of Tuscany is very particularly embroiled in some issues with Godfrey at the time because bra, that's her husband Right So There there were some people who were saying that Matilda might have been involved, for example. We know who's done the research. We know who's drawing the bumb to aim for. Exactly, right. They're like, listen. And you know it to an extent. I'm like, yeah, I guess that does make sense. But I don't know. I think that I think Matilda is a little too religious for all of that Maybe I'm being naive, but I do think that she's kind of too afraid of the literal fear of God to get involved in that. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah s a lot. So given that we're still in the toilet, where are you where are you beating down my aort the train disaster? whereere are you trumping? Okay, listen, is it as absurd No It's still pretty absurd. I'm saying that we're at a four here. You know, we are murdered in a toilet by a spear. comeome on, it's funny, right? And if we hadn't just had the Airfort Latrine disaster, it would probably seem higher, but like let's just be honest Where we're definitely getting higher though. is political impact Because one of the things that happens as a result of this is Godfrey is on the side of the imperial faction of the Inestature contest Right? So he's kind of like pro Henry. And now we are one more guy down and suddenly the pke stock is rising, right? So I'm putting political impact here at a four Definite So there is an international dimension to this, which there wasn't before. Yeah, absolutely. L this has wide reaching implications, whereas the airfort situation is just kind of funny So But where it does fall down in comparison to The Latrine disaster is in the believability stake. So we're at about a three And this is because there are those who say that this is kind of like a dramatic story is surrounding an attack on Godfrey. Now one way or another, we do believe that Godfrey was attacked and he died, right? So he absolutely was assassinated whether or not that happened in this way is up for debate because, you know, to a certain extent, again, this is embarrassing, right? You know, the idea of being caught with your pants down, that is something that these guys poking fun at this might be satirical So believability here is a three. 's actually who's not dying a noble death is he? you know, he's not dying a warrior's death, he's not dying a peaceful death in his bed. So are we thinking could have been embellished, it could be a little bit apocryphal to embarrass him and all of those kinds of things. And it's not firstirst or last time, we're going hear about a medieval death that involves something entering the fundament. It seems to be a fairly favourite theme of medieval people who don't know how people died to imagine it was something like this Listen, medieval people and bums are a match made in heaven. They have never met a joke about a bum they didn't like They have never seen an opportunity to make that joke. that they didn't like. So What I absolutely do believe about this is medieval people were giggling. And so shout out to them. Like they're allowed to have a fun time too Absolutely another nobleman dead on the toilet He's going to cry I think having having put Godfrey I was going to say firmly to bed, but firmly on the toilet, I don't know. A lot I'm going to move on and I'm going to try and outdo you on believability Okay And I actually think this is one that I might be able to outdo you on political impact as well but'm going I'm going to go for believability. And I'm gonna talk about Henry I of England. Oh, this is so good. it should have been mine. Oh Oh man. Oh Here is a man who has pretty much stolen the throne. You know was never meant to be king, youngest son of the conqueror steals the throne from his older brother, imprisons his older brother for his entire life. has more illegitimate children than any other monarch of England has recorded. It's supposed to be something like twenty two for certain and maybe some more are floating around out there as well. So this guy is well into the twenties of illegitimate children famously has an issue with less legitimate children you know he is desperately trying to hang on to the throne I think until his grandson, his oldest grandson Henry, who is probably named for him, ' old enough to take over from him because otherwise he's going to end with a succession crisis because he only has a legitimate daughter. and I think he envisages that that's going to cause all kinds of problems. So In eleven thirty five, by this point he's been king for thirty five years He's in his mid sixties. But generally, you know, a fairly robust kind of guy, he's been active all of his life. There's no real sense that he's ill But in eleven thirty five, we get him sitting down to a feast and He seems to have ordered a bunch of lampreys, you know, one of his favorite foods, these kind of big, I don't know, like shrimpy things I don't even want to think what a lamprey tastes like. I've never tried one and I don't want to know Aarently Henry I loves them And we're told that his physicians have said, you know what, Henry, you shouldn't You shouldn't be eating this bad for your cholesterol, bad for your blood pressure. I don't know what it is, but At your age, Henry, you shouldn't eat them And I like to imagine it being, you know, at your age you shouldn't eat them and Henry saying get stuff guys. I'm pretty robust for her guy in his mid sixties. I'm going to have a go at these lampraise and I'm going to show you and he eats himself into sickness and dies from what the chronicles describe as a surfit of lamprees, eating too many lamprees, which I mean, you know, I think they told you, Henry and you bought this kindind of on yourself So In terms of scoring this, I've gone for a three on the absurdity. so our lowest score on absurdity Yet, it's not's Daft, isn't it eating stuff that your doctors have told you not to eat. to the point that you kill yourself ind us Df but not the most absurd thing we've heard because it doesn't involve a toilet Yeah we can't give it a really high school Absolutely. I agree with you there Also, I think one of the things we have to keep in mind is doctors, you know physicians in the Middle agges, they're probably like, oh yes, if you eat too many lampreys, it's going to make you colder and wetter And as a result, you know, your humors are going to be alignment. So really is that what killed him or was it just overeating? So you know I do think that like it brings the absurdity level down because it's not like This is a direct medical intervention that may or may not have worked, right? We do need to keep that in mind. And this one scores really highly as well on political impact. It's got a five for political impact, which is as high as it can get because As I said, Henry was kind of holding on for his oldest grandson to be old enough. to succeed him and he fails to do that. You know his oldest grandson is still a baby when he dies. And so his his death in this unexpected way before anyone was was thinking they were going to have to worry about all of this kind of thing really sparks onene of the most serious succession crises in medieval England. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is going to have a huge impact on the political life in England for The next you know, what would have been a reign of someone, right? This is setting us up for the anarchy. This is where all the trouble comes from, right? So This is kind of as bad as it gets in terms of how things can shake out if you are an English person. So yeah, I think we have to we have to give it to the political impact. It's pretty big. It's pretty big I think so because you know we're talking about nineteen years of basically civil war that follows it, the end of the Norman dynasty, the arrival of the Anovin dynasty at the end of all of that. It's pretty seismic in terms of the impact that it has But I went for Trumping you onbelievability just because it's got a four onbelievability. So Everyone seems pretty sure that you he ate too many lambreys, got a bit of a tummy ae, and died in the night. There doesn't seem to be too much doubt about the fact that it happened.Quite why the Lampreys killed him might be up for grabs. Nobody iss too sure about that, but it seems pretty certain that No he ate all of these lamp praise. his physicians had told him not to and that seems to have been what finished him off. Let' said, you know, whomst among us has not overindulged and thought they were dying, right? So a relatable king, what can we say? I mean, I may well be found dead one day from a surfit of pringles or something I don't know, but I have to say also just shout out on this particular one, A surfit of Lampreys, one of those phrases that lives rent free in my head. And also, you know, if anyone's got an aspiring indie band out there Great name for a band, greatreat name for a set like a difficult second album Surfit of lampreies go for it guys. I like it. Yeah. what's your overall score here then Matt So we've gone for an overall twelve out of fifteen for this, which is a pretty high score. you know, Henry I first death, I think as we've pointed out is is pretty silly And pretty disastrous for England as well. Well, Map, come it at you A story To warm the hearts of Czech people, okay? Be Today I want to bring you the tale off your friend and mom well no, he's not our friend. He's not our friend. He's my enemy. This is John of Luxembourg. He's sometimes known as John of Bohemia. I wish she wouldn't Okay. I wish you wouldn't call him that But he is the father of my favorite Czech guy Birr Charles the Fce And He is also known in the Czech lands as Karl Cisenitz or the Foreign King, right? Okay So bad guy, in my opinion, notot a great dude treats the noble Kingdom of Bohemia as though it is a bank account And spends all his time basically chasing ladies and going to tournaments, right He is a consumate soldier and he because he has Great ties with the French court endnds up On the twenty sixth of august thirteen forty six at the Battle of Cressy as so many noblemen and royal people do Now. Here's where this gets stupid because if being killed at the Battle of Chrer look many such cases, that's hardly new. Right? It's not a weird thing to be killed at the Battle of Chrissy, but he really seems to have wanted this, right as the name John the Bind. might indicate My good friend Kudat see at this point in his life. And The tide is already turned against the French Things have gone really, really badly. and many people including his son, who was much smarter than he was, are beginning to retreat But not John No, no, because he is a king. And what he decides to do is order his knights tie their horses together with his and then charge. at the English Cavalry I cannot stress enough are being protected by a great number of Kentish Bowmen. And the entire point is it's very difficult to get near them in this particular battle. But in fairness to John, he can't see that, can he?t He doesn't know It's like I would simply I would simply charge. Why hasn't anyone done that, right and his belief is that he can still strike below His words notop mine against the English. Spoiler alert mayaybe he did strike a blow, but he also died And he also gotot his men killed And, you know, we don't know exactly how he died because, you know, Is he just one of the hundreds upon hundreds of people who was killed by the arrows quite possibly. If you can't see, It's pretty easy to get your bell rung in the melee as well or if you can't see and you get knocked off your horse, very, very easy to get trampled in all that mud at Chrisy, right We do know about this one because like depending on who you ask, some people are like, oh Isn't it heroic Right. And some people are like, oh, It's like quite tragic And I think if you asked English people, they'd be like, well that seems quite stupid And And I mean, interestingly, if you ask Czech people, they're like, oh, thank God Finally, This is brilliant. Okay, this guy is out of the way. Can we just kind of like get on with things with his son? which they do immediately. But I don't know, I suppose If you were John and you were such a terrible king, maybe this is the only way you can get yourself a good reputation. So I mean, to be fair, maybe it's just a form of PR that I don't really understand, right I mean, I think a couple of things on John, I am very well aware of your hatred of John. So I'm not going to get you to try and feel sorry for him or think anything nice about him I feel like there's two things here been hugely heroic You know, the guy who who's lost his sight He just wants to die as a medieval knight in a battle desperately trying to fight trying to craft that legacy for himself There's something admirable in that Dragging two men down with you. and forcing them to die tied to you in a weird kind of bondage session of melee death makes this very heroic. It makes this ret horrible. you know, Did these two guys volunteer to be strapped to the king and ridden to their death? I don't know. I very seriously doubt it, but it can't have been pleasant for them. So the fact that he wants to do this Fine, I can get down with that. The fact that he feels the need to drag two people along with him. is not good This is John all over I'm sorry this is just this is just how he is just so selfish. He's always thinking about himself He's never thinking about the good people of Bohemia or indeed his own knights, okay So like I mean, I do that is something that I think about often though is those nights This is to be fair to him This tends to be the thing if you don't know Cch history, which most people don't. this is usually the thing that people know about John So to an extad, I mean, he's actually played a blinder because, you know, at least people know this story. but I mean, whether or not you go along with his romanticized view is another thing entirely. right And yeah, I mean, Accordingly, I think I'm giving it a pretty high absurdity level in that I think it's a four. Now I'm not awarding it all five points because for all five points, I need you to not drag those other nights down with you. Right? It's like a little too sad. to be He can't even do absurd properly for you, can he? Doubt this man This is the only thing he ever did for me was die, but you know, fair enough, fair enough. Political impact, I am going for a three because does have a political impact in that finally Charles is able to take the throne in his own right. But the impact that it makes is everyone is pretty happy. Right? so this is like, this is generineally one where everyone was like, wew Great, you know, so you know, I think that when we kind of mean political impact, we mean that it has a destabilizing influence, whereas this particular death has in actual stabilizing Influence You know And then unbelievability, we're giving it a four. everyveryone pretty much agrees that this happens. John's detractors say that this happens. John's supporters. of whom there's presumably one or two like basically people that Charles pays off to write about his family are like yeah, isn't that heroic question mark, right? Like so And we do get the story that, you know, even the black printince Edward the Black Prince is so impressed. he comes across John's body on the battlefield and there is this legend that he takes John's ostrich feather badge and his motto of Ikean as the Prince of Wales is badge and motto. as they have been ever since, which people dispute whether that's true or not you know, even his enemies are you're having some sense that he's done something fair striking Clever, but striking Listen, he would be spending all his money on Ostrich feathers. this guy This guy Why don't you see to the safety of the roads in Bohemia, John? Now it's just all ostrich feathers and eating this gy I feel like I need to drag you off your soap boox, Owise we a really long bant about Job Listen It's an eleven. It's an eleven out of fifteen. That's what that's what we need to know. We can move on. L the point is I'm right and I'm glad John is dead. Thank you As the saying goes, if these walls could talk. And on the Bwixt the Sheets podcast, we make it our business to discover what happened behind closed doors, and even more importantly, in the bedrooms of people all throughout history Kings, queens, mistresses, servants, and everyone in between We also get up close and personal with medieval aphrodisiacs, lethal Victorian makeup routines, and look at the scandalous lives of beloved children's authors. Nothing is off limits In other words, it's the best bits of history with me, Dr. Kate Lister. Listen to but twwixt the sheets the history of sex scandal in society twice a week every week wherever it is that you get your podcasts, brought to you by the award winning network, History Hit Right. I am next going to pick out something that I think trumps your political impact. which John maybe has a bit more of an impact. then that's And this is the death of James II, the King of Scotland People may know kind of roughly what happens to him. It's a fairly well known story So James becomes King of Scotland at the age of about six He inherits from his father so he has his big long. minority I'm there are as always, there are families that try to dominate the government in Scotland who are, you know, trying to keep him, keep it forever young U and he he ends up effffectively he ends up using his marriage to Mary of Geld as a way to sort of emancipate himself from his from his minority to declare himself of age and to take control of the government himself. And one of the things that James is really into is guns and stuff that go bang because he's a boy Yeah Who isn't? you're in a world where you've suddenly got all these things that make loud noises and go bang. James loves artillery and he's he's, you know, obsessed with all of these things And so kind of by fourteen sixty, James is focusing on Roxborough Castle, which is placed at the English have still held on to after the Scottish Wars of Independence. the English are still there I just kind of bugging James and he's thinking he wants to drive the English out of Roxborough, and what better way to do it than all of his new toys He's got new toys and he's going to bring them out to play So he turns up there in the summer of fourteen sixty and wheels out of his cannon and begins to bombard Roxborough Castle. And on the third of August in fourteen sixty, we're told that he's standing next or near to one of these cannons And it backfires, it explodes and he is taken out by his own gun that he had invested all of this money and all of this time and in the belief that it would help him get Roxborough Castle back and and help him make a name for himself. and I think it makes a different name for himself than he would have wanted it to because he dies at the hands of his own I mean, literally hoiced by his own Patard, I guess. Oh yes, oh yes. I mean, it is one of these stories where you're just like, yeah, Well, that's that. right. And I think it is important to keep in mind that at this point in time in the fifteenth century, no Canon are a relatively new invention. and they do blow up Right? It is not that unusual for them to misfire backfire blow up and take people along with them. and They have to therefore be approached with a surfit Not of lamprees, but of caution. And James, I think probably just because, you know, he's a lad just doesn't think about it that way. And so this is one of these things that this all could have been avoided Bye Not being this hands on with a gun, but on the other hand You know, you know how dudes are. They love a cannon. What can I say? you know, if you put a cannon out there that people could fire right now, I think that the number of dudes who would perhaps injure themselves is not in the zeros, right? You know, it's Yeah. And I wonder how many people listening If you're a man, have you done this? If you're a woman, do you know a man who's done this goingoing back to a lit firework, because it doesn't look like it's gone off yet It's that kind of thing, isn't it? you know I can imagine the aftermath with the the inquiry beginning almost immediately into A, who made this cannon that just blew the king up? But also B, who told James he could stand there didn't tell that that was a really bad idea. Oh my God, you know, it's it is There is a death, a fairly horrible death, so you can't laugh that hard, but listen, I'm giggling I'm galing. What can I say? Yeah? What? I mean I So in terms of scoring this, it's got a three for absurdity because it falls into the DAFft category rather than being hilarious, you know silly. It's something that could have been avoided as you said, but Maybe isn't the most absurd thing that we've heard so far today. There's no pooh involved in this at all, Matt Can anything win without the involvement of Pooh? That's the question. We have to We've got a while to try and find out and Where I think it does better than John's death is maybe the political impact because here is the King of Scotland dead. so we've got another king who is dead. To some extent John had willingly voluntarily gone to his death. This is the King of Scotland dying on a military campaign without actually wanting to and also because he leaves behind a son in James III who is only nine years old So Scotland having had a long minority with James I second is now thrown back into a long minority with James III. And that's just going to allow all of those factions to emerge. again, all of those families to try and assert themselves over the king And you've again got the issue of child king and how he get out of his minority and what kind of king is he going to be when he gets there because the traditional view is that child kings are never ever a very good idea. So here we've got a child king who's made its adulthood. died but left behind him another child king. So I think it's got a fall for the political impact because it's pretty significant for Scotland And And it's got to A five for believability because there doesn't seem to be any doubt about what happened here. James stood too close to a cannon that exploded and he died. There is there is complete unanimity about this. I've never seen it disputed or doubted. so gone hard with a five on believability of this, which gives it a total score of twelve out of fifteen. So I think it's fairly significant, notot the daftest thing we've heard, but pretty significant Yeah, and I think that it's an important one to get in the conversation because it is a bit of an absurd death, you know, maybe not a funny haaha absurd. But as he say, you know, listen, we got to we got to cover all the parameters here, right There's different ways to be stupid And I'm trying them all, Matt. But look, I feel as though this is not sufficiently absurd. So I'm going to come at you with something more if he go Let's bring it back. let's br it back to the silly one. This is one of my very, very favorite stories from the Middle Ages generally Baby, we gott to talk about Peter Bartholomew, right C in. I' how you got this one. No Cing it hot. I wanted this one This is so good, right? Okay, in the first place, shout out to one of our few non royal or noble guys involved And now Heer Bars Holamw, right S In the year of our Lord ten ninety nine is involved in the first Crusade. and more particular, he is bogged down in Antioch as so many pans are at the time They are underneath a terrible siege. Everybody's starving Morale is in the gutter you know what Peter decides is going to turn this ship around? is He believes, or at least he states that he has found The holy Lance Under the floor danger which is interesting because there's there are already a few holy Lances Float around Europe up at the time, but, you know, hey, what's one more? Listen, you know If you have a curious mind, you can think of lots of varying possibilities To his credit We do see from the sources that this has provided a fair morale boost to the troops. where everyone says, yay, yay, we've got the Holy Lance. Now whether or not everybody knows the story of like he just found it just now That's another question, but they all decide, they've got the Holy Lance. everyverybody rallies around. They manage to get on out there and break the siege. so before we go any further, what is the Holy Lance? I mean, it sounds like something from Monty Pyon the Holy Grail. We've goto hand grenade. What's the Holy Lance? Okay, so the Holy Lance is, you know, when Jesus is being crucified And at the end, they start feeling sort of bad for him with all of the pain. And one of the soldiers decides to pierce Jesus' side which ends his suffering. So this becomes a relic firstirst of all, because they decide that the guy who pierers his side who they start calling as St Longenus, which literally just means St Lance, but like, okay, cool go for it, bro so you know, you've got a relic associated with him. and also you've got something to touch Jesus, right? And because Jesus ascended into heaven, we don't have a whole lot of bodily relics associated with him. I say we don't have a whole lot. We've got like eight of his foreskin and like mouths and mouths and mouths full of baby teeth. Listen, we're taking what we can get Yall, s for that And it interesting that Peter would decide he's found this in particular, while all of the Christians are suffering in the Holy Land and want their suffering to end He's managed to find the relic that ended Christ's suffering on the cross Exactly. So you know, it is a very poetic move. and whether or not Hm is intentionally doing that is up for debate. But listen, it kind of works. It raises everybody's spirits. They charge out of the city, they manage to break the siege horay A couple of days later, everyone starts going buddy. Listen, great work Great work cheerleading, but is that really the Holy lens. Peter's like, yahad is shop That's direct quote, direct quote. That's what it says in all the sources. And he says, not only is this the holy Lance, but I am willing to undergo an ordeal by fire. in order to prove this. Now in this case, what we mean by that is essentially they light a huge, huge fire And he walks through it. carrying the lance A branch. I guess how this goes. R like his idea is that For a guy who I was kind of assuming is probably making this up. It's a bit of a you know, a bit of a PR stunt, good for morale and all that kind of thing. This is really extreme in an effort to prove that it's genuine. This is making me wonder whether he did think that he had found something serious because why not you know, why not go I've lost it now. It must have disappeared. It arrived on we need it and it's gone now. What can I say the end, but hes he's going in hard on this really is the Holy Dance st. know, I suppose that there is kind of rather a lot in it for him. I know maybe he genuinely believes this, you know, or maybe he thinks that he can kind of like get through the fire But the theoretical idea behind this is that if he's telling the truth, since he's got this holy relic, it will protect him It does not booiler alert I mean, o he walked into a fire with two pieces of wood and was crazy And so he suffers some fairly severe burns Um and he takes a while to die All right, it's it's not a pretty way to go. It is pretty drawn out My favorite thing about this though. is that he insists as he is dying from these terrible burns from walking through this fire it's not. It's not the birs that are killing him. He's like, no, I'm just sick. I just still, that's yeah something el I've got a bit of a call that I am dentery. Yeah, everybody does, right? So He does end up dying I'm afraid I'm going to have to insist that he did indeed die of the burns, which everyone pretty much agrees on in April of ten ninety nine. shhout out. one of the best to ever do it. one of the stupidest deaths completely self inflicted I'm going all the way. I think the level of absurdity of this is five Because as you say, Matt, he could have just. I think he may to do it. You didn't have to do it, bro. Like, come on he did it to himself. I think one of the favourite bits of the story that I came across was there was a papal legate who was around at a time called Adamar of La Poix. and this guy was like Peterath told him M is in Chlot that he'sy you know he hasn't really found the Holy lands. And Peter's like, No, I have, I really have And then Adamar dies kind of in ten ninety eight At which point, Peter starts saying, you know what? I've had a vision of Adimar And it turns out that he knows now that I was right. I really did find a Ho Lance. He's visited me in my visions. The guy who called me a Charlatan has been proven wrong. I mean, he's really going two feet all in on this, isn't he and then to walk through fire to willingly do that. seemems mean, we can talk about a world where there is much more religious conviction that perhaps you will get protected from these kinds of things But it still feels like it has to be a five for abbsurdity he doesn't it is just. I mean is to be fair to him, you know, much in the way that the story everybody knows about John the Bind is that he dies in this silly way at Chrissy. This is the thing we know about Peter Barthology, right He enters the historical because he just goes all the way. He's like I stand ten toes down. on this, right? You know, where it falls down is a political impact. because this is just some guy, right? And to his credit, the politically impactful thing that he already does is, you know rallying the troops in terms of kind of helping to break the siege of Antioch. It doesn't do anything after he dies though The belieelievability on this is pretty high. It's at a four. Everyone does kind of believe that he did this to himself. Yeah. but he disputes why he died, right? whichich is why I'm giving it a four not f because there's that one wholeoldout person who's utter convced it wasn't fire killed him after we walked through the fire. And it's him. it's the guy, right? You know, so so fair enough. but that is so important because I think it bumps the absurdity up. You know, it is really the icing on the cake. So listen, it's another eleveven out of fifteen, but you gott to talk about it. It's too funny not to Absolutely. And at least we're not talking about the believability of whether or not he actually found the Holy lance My didn't get into that. Ily walked through fire and died from the fire Unless you believe Peter As the saying goes, if these walls could talk. And on the Bwixt the Sheets podcast, we make it our business to discover what happened behind closed doors, and even more importantly, in the bedrooms of people all throughout history Kings, queens, mistresses, servants, and everyone in between. We also get up close and personal with medieval aphrodysiacs, lethal Victorian makeup routines, and look at the scandalous lives of beloved children's authors. Nothing is off limits. In other words, it's the best bits of history with me, Dr. Kate Lister. Listen to but twwix the sheets the history of sex scandal and society twice a week every week, wherever it is that you get your podcasts, brought to you by the award winning network, History Hit I am going to come back at you then with something that I think has a pretty significant political impact because Peter's death has very little. impact So I'm going to go hard next on some political impact. And a person that I didn't know very much about this is a guy called King Martin of Aragon And he is around in the kind of the late fourteenth century into the early fifteenth. He dies in fourteen ten And There is lots of dispute about why he actually dies but He's king of Aragon and you know he's been on the throne by the time that he dies for kind of fourteen years And there's lots of disputees about the way that he dies, but the story we're going to go with because it's the funny one. which may or may not be true, but has been reported and recorded ever since is that Someone who I presume is a jester at his court tells him. A joke Unfortunately nowhere is it recorded what this joke was And perhaps perhaps that's a good thing because this report claims that having been told this joke King Martin of Aragon laughs himself to death He gets it an absolute fit of uncontrollable laughter and dies. as a result of it. I mean, what what is this killer joke? I mean, there's some sources that say it something to do with the goose I mean A geese that funny? I' I Listen, I mean, my guess would have been bum U againg, knowing medieval people, but F enough goose Sure. I mean Dese have bums? it could be a goose's bum. Goose bum. Ah, seeee now we're cooking. All right. Okaykay.. This is historical investigation live, this is. We're doing important work here, right? Look I will say good for him. what a way to go You know, like we should all be so lucky as to laugh ourselves to death. That's that's pretty ideal in terms of, you know, all the horrors that we've seen, you know Dying slowly of burns, drowning in poo things of this nature. this is that's a pretty nice one, right? So you know, good for him. He secures a nice way out of this life and we love that for Martin I mean, yeah, there's other sources that say he could have died of the plague or it's possible that he's kind of slipped into a coma or even that he was poisoned U but I'm just going to stick with guy laued himself to death Yeah So so I've gone for for this one, I've gone for a level of absurdity of four. so less than Peter Bartholomew But it's hard not to laugh at someone who laughs themselves to death There's clearly a funny joke been told And I kind of want to know what that joke Gz. I would believe it more if I knew what the joke was. How about that? How about that? And I've gone for a political impact here of a five. I've gone in high at a five because his death causes A huge succession crisis. All of his heirs, of his body are already dead. They've predeceased him and there ends up being a huge succession dispute. that eventually ends with his nephew taking the throne, but we have to have this huge agreement called the compomromise of Caspper which kind of sets out who's going to rule which of the territories and all of this kind of thing and there is a huge a lava that kind of reshapes the politics of the Iberian peninsula because K Martin has gone and left himself to death But where this one really does fall over is the believability. So It's got pushed to a two and a half unbelievability. And maybe it doesn't even deserve that because there are so many different accounts of how Martin died. As I said before, this is recorded and it does persist, this idea that he laghed himself to death He's ended up kind of pretty high with an eleven and a half out of fifteen. because it's pretty absurd and it's pretty significant politically. will not have happened I would be more likely to believe the story if I knew what the joke was Tell me the joke. Telling me the joke, guys, even out of context, I just want to know. I'm gonna come with you on this if you tell me the goose joke Because like otherwise I have to be like, yeah, it couldn't have been the plague Right? It's got to be It's got to be. History says it's a goose. We're suggesting it was probably a bumb as well Y as far as we can get The old goosebum All right, well, listen, I'm bringing it back to the silly stuff Okay U, or someone like y I know. I'm such a serious person, Matt. I think we have to shout out really quickly, the Duke of Clarence know you know where I'm going with this? Oh, I know where this is going. Good old George. Bad old George A, so Our friend, George Plantagenet in fourteen seventy eight is arrested and he is in the Tower of London, as is the style O the time. Listen, he was just trying to do some light treason. against his brother Edward IVth, and you could blame him. You know, everybody loves it. It is the thing to do. We love a bit of treason Allegedly, allegedly because he is told that he is going to be killed for said treason, which is yep, that's the punishment He is allowed to choose how he is going to die because he is royal so he gets to have these little niceties. hisis brother's going to kill him, but, you know make your decision up. And also Allegedly. He says because he is a gourmand. he is a bon Vivant He is a man on the town. He says, Okaykay, I want to be drowned in a barrel of sweet malmsy wine Maybe If I'm going out, I'm going out Maggal Loof style You know, and good for him, good for him. U It's a great idea in terms of delicious taste, I still would want to drown myself. Like that's it's not very nice. I think'm I'm gonna to choose headcut off every time, but I just don't have the style let's be so honest about it. And It's a great story. It's one of those ones that gets brought up all the time. If you go to the Tower of London, you are going to hear someone muttering about it possibly me if I'm there at the same time U But we have to give it a five on the absurdity scale because it's just such a rich guy thing. Like it's so silly becausecause if it happened, he chose it for himself as well, which is a weird way to choose to die He's died like he lived as a fancy little lad. okay, right? Political impact on this pretty high. It's a four. I mean, one way or another This is a plantagenet that we're talking about here is a result of a conspiracy and it is going to help to destabilize the plantagenates at the time which is going to lead to your favorite thing in the world, Mat But Yeah. But it is pointed to as one of those things that drives a wedge between Edward IVth and his younger brother Richard, you know that they disagree over what should have happened to George. So perhaps the significant impact that we see of this is it's role in what happens in fourteen eighty three, You know, Edward IV's son is deposed George's fate playing into that at all quite possibly. And you know, so we have to we can't discount that, right Believability on this though, I'm gonna be so real with you. It's low. I don't think this actually happened. I think that this is this is an apocryphal story in My opinion, but it does tell us a little bit about George himself and his proclivities. So there is still a little bit of truth to it in that we know how he might feel about things. So it's an eleven out of fifteen And there's an interesting story that there's a portrait believed to be of his daughter, Margaret and the portrait has a barrel charm around a wrist And the suggestion is that's a pointing to the way that her dad died. but Yeah, don't really have any concrete evidence to make us believe that it really happened that way. Maybe she she's just also a chill chick who loves to chug wine Everything about that? girls can't have hobbies Maybe she takes after her dad. I'mor. That's right E I'm going come at you with with something bit more believ, but only a little bit more belieievable I'm not sure I can beat you on absurdity or political impact with this, but can I can maybe shade it on believability And this is Louis III of France who was around in the ninth century, he's qu what is he? like a great, great grandson of Charlemagne. So he's, you know around when the time of Charlemagne's Empire is fracturing and there's lots of disputes about all these different patchwork of territories that will one day become kind of France and Germany and all of that kind of thing And he's also dealing with some vikings because he's ran about the right time for a load of Vikings to be attacking his territories too And the thing about Louis is he Unusually for the period is doing quite well against the Vikings. He's managing to push them back, he's managing to defeat the Vikings at a time when nobody else is able to do that But in eight hundred eighty two, we're told that you know, he's a young man It's having some military success What he really wants now is a woman But not a wife. Yeah he's obviously just having a moment, he spots a young woman who he quite likes to look of and begins to ride after her on his horse She runs away for reasons best known to her but probably completely understandable ye, chicks love it when you are chasing them down on horseback, what Does it get more romantic? being pursued through the streets by a strange man and She does the natural thing and she runs home rununs in through the doorway of home, Louis is determined that he's not going to give up on this chase. spurs his horse on and rides through the doorway of her house at Fullpelt on his horse and cracks his head on the lintel of the door. smashes his skull in spills his brains and dies from the injuries. He's eighteen years old and he's literally just killed himself in an effort to chase a woman Its rock c like I say? Oh yeah. I mean What could possibly go wrong when the world is run by people like this, heh? I' We've gone we've gone for this not being too absurd. I mean, it' it's got a two for absurdity It's a little bit dafted But it's also, he bought it on himself a little bit he's behaving in a pretty creepy way The political impact we've gone for a three And it doesn't have a huge long term impact, but you know He had been having success against the Vikings, which stalls, you know The Vikings begin to do a little bit better in his area when he's gone, and all of his stuff, all of his lands go to his brother, which unites a bunch of territory in West Francia and maybe starts the movement towards this consolidation of lands that will eventually become something like France. So there's a bit of a political impact there, but not a huge one and the believability it's got a three. So it kind of just shades George. George had a two this gets a three because there seems to be more consensus in the source is that it could be an anecdote, but it's generally broadly accepted that he dies by smashing his head on the lintle of a door, riding his horse. Like, you know, the wise and whereforeors are another thing entirely, but you know, he did bonk his bonnet We can all agree on that Okay, well, look, I am going to go in with a higher absurdity rating the sin U this is Sigurd the Mighty. Do you know this one? This is this is quite a fun one, okay? He is the Earl of Orkney Also in the ninth century and He, as many Earls of Orky are want to do is involed some hand to hand combat with a rival, and he bests said rival to celebrate as Vikings are w to do. He cuts the dude's head off Now, also, as Vikings are w to do Thank very much decides he's gonna to flaunt it, right? Like this is how we Butter our bread, baby. This is how you know not to mess with the Earl of Okley, right? I'm I'm gonna ride around with a severed head on my saddle and show you people what's what, right? this head s it on his horse and he's having a little bit of a parade about going, you like that ' ever had killed Marrival here's the thing It is alleged that as he is wriding, teeth of the head sort of scratch his leg And There's a resulting wound which becomes nastily infected And as a result Sred then dies soon after and lookook You and I have got to say now this. Now that's absurd, baby. You' like what do you mean? Getting bitten to death by a dead person Pretty upset Like he's not a snake, bro. Like come on, it's not He's hardly just like sitting there and giving it an gw afterwards. No, I will say, okay, like yeah, human mouths are filthy And it is pretty easy to get infected if someone does give you a bit of a chop. Now whether or not that can happen as you are riding around town trying to show people what a big bad warrior you are. That's that's another question. but we got to say That's a five out of five. That's just stupid. That is another absurd and very silly way to go, right? Like Pats off to Sigurd, right Political impact on this BDM like right like he's the Earl of Orkney. So of course this is going to have some impact, but let's also be so for real. These are Vikings we're talking about. they're constantly killing each other, right? Like there's a new Earl of O They'll be another one in the next ship. Yeah, exactly like, you know, you wait ages for one to come along at once, right? That's how it is. Unfortunately, the believability on this one is low. This is a saga story U, you know, and the sagas will also be like and then Thor showed up, right? and like Listen and I love I simply love to see it. Do I think Thor actually showed up? No. do I think That a guy G Bitten or at least scratched by a severed head. Probably not, but I still like the story. I still like to talk about it Be it's funny. look, it's out of fifteen, but let's be so for real. it's a good giggle as well. It is. It's a good story ight, I've got kind of a last card to play. and you know how in a deck of topop Trump there's always that one that's almost uefatable you might have arrived at that card Because this kind of affects someone that we've already spoken about a little bit. but this is twenty fifth of november eleven twenty, which may well be a date that rings bells all over the place. do not come on man We have we have wheedled in at the end of this the White ship disaster It rightly positioned us as a disaster. So there's a fantastic episode of G Medieval with Charles Spencer all about the White shhip disaster if you want to learn loads of detail about all of this, but essentially you've got bunch of young blokes and we're going to end up in a ssurd story, Hota Thunk Bunch of young guys Gonna to race a ship over the channel. so King of England is Henry I, who we've mentioned earlier. he has already set sail for home across the channel from Barflur to England H only legitimate son and heir, William Madeeline is going to get on this white ship, which is kind of newly fitted, newly appointed. It's kind of like giving seventeen year olds the keys to the Ferrari and telling them to go knock themselves out. And as they're preparing to get on the ship, they're bringing on barrels of wine, tons of stuff. They're getting drunk. they're encouraging the crew to get drunk. possibly go wrong. So as night falls As it turns dark All of these drunk people sail out from Barlalo Harbor They make it I don't know, like fifty meters before they smash the side of the ship into this rock that everybody knows is there. It's still there today. Everybody knows that this is a hazard But guess what? they're all drunk and they don't manage to avoid Um, they are, you know pulled down into the sea. noobody really swims at this point. They're all wearing their lovely fine silk clothes give them zero protection against the November. Channel Waters so they can't swim They're freezing to death as well. We get odd bits of stories of people bobbing up here at one point one chronicle says that the capaptain of the ship bobbs up and says, Oh, where's the prince? And somebody else who's bobbing around still says he died he just gone to the bottom of the seat Don iss so convinced that he's going to be in trouble for this that he just allows himself to sink and he's like, might as well just go now because I hate think what the g is going to do to me for this there's one survivor a man named Bero, who's a butcher from Rouon, who was kind of chasing the royal court to get some bills paid, and he's saved by the fact that he's wearing this lovely big feece woolen coat that protects him from the cold and helps him to float a little bit. So all of the rich people sink One of the very few poor people on board is the only person that survives And Yeah, it's a a terrible, terrible story We've gone for a level of absurdity of four. So not undefeatable But it is a bunch of young blokes getting drunk and getting crew of their ship drunk too and then Probably in their last moments wondering why on eararth they've crashed a ship What could they have done to avoid this? Who knows political impact. I mean We've gone hard on a five because this is what drives Henry I to trying to point Empress Matilda as his heir So she is he's only surviving legitimate child by that point. He's aware that there's going to be a huge succession problem because he hasn't got a son And so this is a thing feeds into the anarchy and everything that comes after that. So we talked about Henry's death as kind of sparking all of that off, but this is the This is the fuse being lit on all of those things that are going to come U And we've also gone hard with a believability of five. So top score to because all of the chronicles are pretty adamant what happened The ship definitely sank Um, William Adeline definitely died in there and they were definitely drunk as well