Future Goals and Balancing Motherhood

This episode is brought to you by Hilton. Did you hear Paris Hilton has like a billion Hilton honors points? Well, she calls them Paris points, and Hilton is helping her give them all away this summer. Use them for that wedding or pleasure , that's business and pleasure, or maybe book a stay just for sleep . As Paris would say , that's living. Just make sure you're a Hilton honors member and follow Paris and Hilton on the Socials to see how Paris points can be your points. When you want points that actually make your summer sleigh, it matters where you stay. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Good Hang . We have a great one today. We are talking to Mindy Kaling, Mindy Mogul , so good at so many things . And we get into it today. We talk about a lot of fun stuff. We talk about Acapella groups. We talk about whether or not we think we can deliver a baby. We talk about the fact that she has written more episodes of the Office than any other writer and we get into her new show Not Suitable Work, which is on now on Hulu. So lots of great stuff to talk about. And like always , we talk to someone who knows our guest and has a question for our guest. And speaking of not suitable for work, we have one of the stars from that show, Avantica, joining us, Avantica, who you may know from the movie Musical of Mean Girls, a talented young woman who is here to well to grace our pres ence, really. Avantica . Is my audio working? This episode is brought to you by Hilton. Did you hear Paris? Hilton has like a billion Hilton honors point s. Well, she calls them Paris points and Hilton is helping her give them all away this summer. Use them for that wedding or pleasure. That's business and pleasure, or maybe book a stay just for sleep. As Paris would say, that's sliving. Just make sure you're a Hilton honors member and follow Paris and Hilton on the Socials to see how Paris points can be your points. When you want points that actually make your summer sleigh, it matters where you stay. Hi, it's so nice to see you again. It's so good to see you. Congratulations on all the good stuff happening for you and no surprise. Where are we talking to you from? I'm on set right now, which is why my makeup looks a little scary. Are you shooting not suitable for work right now? Is that the set that you're on? Can you imagine I'm soft launching season two? No, it's not This is not the set I'm on, I'm on an undisclosed set. Oh, exciting at liberty to talk. You are busy, busy busy . You know, we first met on the set of Moxie Moxie. Yeah. Yeah. How did we how did we meet? Do you remember? I don't remember like the first initial meeting. I just have a really vivid memory of you, of like walking out of the school, like the classroom and seeing you and my dad like holding hands and jumping up and down together because you figured out you guys had the same birthday because he loves talking . But you both had your ideas and I was like, cool, okay? Not everyone's getting along . Oh my God, he's a september sixteenth girlie. He is . Sadly, I've learned it's a very common. September birthdays are very common, I guess. Yeah, I guess people really get down . I know what does it say about it? They get down in the holidays, I guess. I guess we got bored. We got bored and we're pulled . Well, I remember I directed a film for Netflix called Moxie and it was filled with an incredible cast and I remember you came and joined us for a too brief scene, but a really fun day . And that's really it's really cute that your dad and I bonded . I was reading up on you, Vantica, and you're so impressive in the stuff that you've done. And I didn't know that you did a lot of Bollywood when you were younger. Yeah, it's how it's how I started out. I think at the time I was ten and any of your parents li tok makeed safe bets and it was not a safe bet at the time to be like, let's haul ass and do this for the rest of your life. But India was a more prospective place if I wanted to be in the film industry. And so we moved there for like four years. Oh, well, you moved there for your career. Yeah, yeah. My mom really like my mom left her job the day that I was born. She was like, I want to spend all my time with my daughter. And she made a lot of s acrifices for me to be in this industry. So I'm, you know, very grateful that now she gets to like watch a TV show I hope she enjoys. And yeah, she really is the reason that I'm here not to get all emo on everyone . So yeah I get seven in the morning for you . No, no, no, I'm ready to cry anytime. Anytime. Okay, so let's talk about your boss. So I'm okay. So I'm interviewing Minnie Kaling today , whom I've known for a really long time, and I'm really excited to talk to her because we have a lot of similar experiences and paths. And one of the things that I really want to talk to her about is like, what kind of boss is she? So the first time I ever met Mindy was in a parking lot that she took me to in LA because I had DMed her when I was seventeen being like, I love you. I love you so much. And she was like, okay, she was like, yeah, like she was like, let me have my assistant schedule lunch. And I was like, Oh my God, it's like this is the most exciting thing happening right now. And she took me to a French restaurant in a strip m all in La and the ceiling is literally in a parking lot and my dad was like parked three hundred feet away. I love mentoring my dad. My dad's like making a reappearing words in every story. He's just always proximate . And we're actually in the room right now, can you imagine ? But she took me to this french restaurant and was like, We need to try Escargo if you haven't tried all right. So my first like one on one experience with Mindy was like eating snails and her being this very she was like, tell me about your career. She was like, what do you want in life? And I think the one thing that always stood out to me about her and is one of everyone's favorite qualities about her but having worked on this set is that she's such a curious person. Like she Mindy asks so many questions. She's just like down to gossip, she's down to gab, like she knows about my love life. She knows about all of our love lives . Like Mindy's just a really fun person to be here on. I really wish this time around that she like we don't because we're always scared of when we're going to lose Mindy because like Mindy's first priority are her kids and like her life outside . And so this season, we're hoping that like we're going to get her claws on her. And like if we get renewed for a next season, she won't let us go . But she's the best. I think whether Mindy knows it or like can really comprehend it or not. She's like a present figure in so many mindsets like sort of, you know, like a lot of people view Mindy as a friend and a role model or an idol, whether it be Kelly Kapoor or any of the character she's created. Yeah. And as an young Indian woman watching her, what did it mean to see her representing her life and on screen? Like what was that like as a young person? I loved Never Have I Ever. I mean, when Never Have I Ever came out on trades that it was getting made, I was like, This is the most insane thing like I've ever seen in my life. I was in that so I would auditioned for Never Have I Ever and I was very young when I went out for it, but I remember being like in the waiting room looking at the sign in sheet for and being like, Who are all the girls? Like I want to be friends with all of them. I just really remember telling my mom said, can you please memorize the latter half and I'll memorize the top half and then we can go and like DM their moms on Finnish book because I really want to be friends with all of you playing in the industry and we all know how well DMs work for you. It always works . And my tree was perfect for that role and she did like so so incredible. But all that to say, like she has a very odd, incredible way of bringing together community and bringing together people , both off camera but also behind the scenes as well . And I think watching her on screen meant the same thing as representation means to more anybody, which is that like, oh, people like me exist and people like me are deserving of being put on a big platform. Very cool. Okay, so we have we always do this thing where we ask our guests a question from somebody who knows them, respects them, work s with them, loves and adores them. So what question do you have for Indy today? I'd like to know for someone who's accomplished so much like what her personal like egot is . Like what four accomplishments that she wants to achieve in her life, like spanning four different categories . That's such a big question. I love questions. That's a big question. You'll get to So wait, so the question is what like which is like you've done so much, what more do you wanna do? It's sort of like I don't know, like a personally got what may have four kids, get a PhD, spend two years abroad like , you know don,ating money and like the fourth one is like I want to skydive. Like it like for things that you want to accomplish across like all sort of a breadth of categories . Yeah, I guess that is like I sort of just like she's just says, she's just done so much that I'm like, what more do you want ? I mean, it's an I bet she'll have an answer. Also, there is a part of me that's like, Or just rest . Rest now, darling. Right, very , personally, God get put in a cryo chamber. Yeah . Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I love that. And please tell your dad that I can't wait to, you know, psychically spend my birthday with him again . And it's so lovely to see you. And I know Mindy will be really happy that we talked. Congratulations on your new show, not suitable for work on Hulu. And thank you so much for talking to us and for all the great things ahead for you and such a pleasure to see you again. So good to see you, Joe. You too. Thanks so much for your time. Bye honey. Bye bye . This episode is brought to you by All State, checking All State first could save you hundreds on car insurance . Not checking your pockets before putting clothes in the washer ? Oof . Enjoy your freshly cleaned and completely destroyed earbuds. Yeah, checking first is a good plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote, it could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with All State. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. All state North American insurance company and affiliates, North Brook, Illinois. Mindy Canling is here, everybody. Took the red eye, which is, I just gotta say, that's brutal. Isn't it funny how in my twenties it was the only way I would do things? I'd shoot the office and then Friday night was like I , take the red eye, get into I'd just be going back to Boston to see my parents. Yeah. And my dad would pick me up at Logan at six o'clock, we'd go to McDonald's and I'd just sleep for four hours. Yes. I was just talking to our friend Rashida Jones about this . It's the lack of recovery . It's like we can power through anything now. You know, like you just suck it up and power through, but there's no day to sleep after. There's no d toate sleep . No. So I just I just did a line of code . Yeah, we're flying. Wow . I'm doing great. We're going to brag about our careers, and then we're going to yeah, we're going to crash out in like forty five minutes . But thank you for coming. Thank you for being here. I'm excited to be here. I know remember when we used to do David Letterman and the producers would be like, Do not compliment him. He doesn't know what to do with it. That's right. And you were like, oh, so it was like an insult to compliment a host . And then now I feel I felt like for other shows too, I was like, don't do that. And then it feeds into the whole thing of like, it's not cool to compliment. It was very formative when that producer was like, don't compliment so true. And you're right. A hostile act. And yet, I love compliments as a performer. And if someone came into my show and was like, I love the show. I feel like I love to give, I love to get. I mean, literally, what are we doing? I mean, like , what are we gonna be like mean to each other? Like the world is on fire. Like who? I love recognition , praise. So I just wanna say that I love the show. Thank you. I watch it with my nanny Little YouTube at night after the children are down and it's like it's such an intimate thing to watch in the dark you talking to like Baron Holtz. Our buddy. Han. Our buddy . And then have our little ads on YouTube. You know, when I was getting ready for today, first of all, congrats on being a mogul, straight up mogul , mogul . You don't have to explain . You take it in. You are a mogul, Mindy. Congratulations. Listen, listen, this is I know I'm interrupting you now. No, please. Are you a mogul if you haven't invested in a restaurant or a sports team? That's a great question. Just 'cause I want to accept. We know I love you guys . We need to buy some kind of sports. But you're right. Stein Kutcher. Yeah, you're right. You know, like he owns Uber and Geisha House, like, but I'm driven to call more women geniuses and moguls and all that stuff because I think we just need to claim okay, so let's claim that. I'll claim that for you today. Thank you. And as a fellow Boston girl, yes , I feel like when I was looking at, you know, kind of like looking at all the stuff you do and just thinking thematically about what to talk about today . I mean, we've had a lot of very similar paths, you and I, and not just because we were born like , you know, in close proximity of each other, like but but we have really , I mean, we've been in this biz for a minute. Been in this biz for a minute . And we've been together in a lot of it. So it's very , very nice to see you and to have you here. I love being here and to even be someone that you would say is on a similar journey because you were a little ahead. Yes. I was ten I was ten I'm like about ten years older than you. For my generation, for anyone who came up in New York and took classes with UCB and everything, it was like you were the one doing it. Like you were the one succeeding with all the mean unaccepting man in comedy. Do you know what I mean? Well, yeah, I mean, I think both you and I are used to and I want to talk about it. You and I are used to being one or the only woman in a room full of men a lot for a lot, especially in the beginning of our career. And what how that shaped us. Cambridge, Massachusetts, you're born and raised . Now Cambridge was always where smart lived and their smart parents. Yes. Did you have were you considered like a smart kid in school I was always considered a bright kid. Yeah . When I was younger, I think I was like kind of silent and chubby and friendly . And that was my vibe and not funny. But that was back, I don't know if you felt this way. That was back in the eighties when like girls weren't really supposed to be funny. Right. And they were kind of good laughers. Good laughers. Yeah. And if you were funny tri anded to talk too much, it was kind of like you were you had problems or you were like disrupted . You're right. Like the mischievous girls were the class clowns, which I look back now and they were just like feisty, interesting young women, but people thought they were kind of troublemakers. Totally. In high school being Indian too far from the but also like I felt like I was still just like observing . I noticed that like it wasn't until I was like in middle school where I was like the class clans who were guys were just like kind of outrageous. They weren't really funny. When you're twelve and thirteen there is no difference between someone who's like willing to like jump off the side of the school building and being someone who's funny. It was like all just like one thing. Totally. No one was examining it I think that for my parents to like at that time , being funny in school was so tied to like kind of like an again disruptive, like non academic like you don't have a good path if you're like a funny kid. That's what I mean. Yeah, you're kind of like you're speaking out in class, you're kind of not paying attent . And I bet you had the same thing. I mean, maybe maybe even more because your parents moved to the U. S. when you when your mom was pregnant with you. Yes. And so like, you know, they're like, we don't need you to be the one that's cracking jokes in class . And I had parents who were teachers. So it was like, don't like the funny kid is the one that's often like the teacher is having to deal with having to deal with yeah. But they call you Mindy , your nickname because from Morgan Mindy. Mindy. So it was real like that's a real it's a mixed message. My parents immigrated here in the seventies and nobody in entertainment on either side of the family, but they did like love comedy . Loved it. Like and I think for us too, where it's like, it wasn't like we were coming home and having like these, you know, always like these deep chats But we would just like sit in front of the TV and watch Mussy TV. They love Seinfeld . They love friends. They love the Cosby Show, or Sure, I mean, we all did at one point. At one point I can at one point . But I remember so distinctly when I was like eleven or twelve and I was, of course, like obsessed with Saturday Night Live. Yeah, we would watch Chris Farley. That was that your cast? Yes, it was like Sandler Chris Far ley. And honestly, like from Dana Carvey to Bill Hater feels like the time, which is a long span. Yeah . Yeah. But we would see, is it Matt Foley? Yeah, Matt Foley character, Chris Farley's character down by the River Down by the river, classic, iconic character. Yeah. And he's like, I think one of the funniest people of all time. I agree . And when he, you know, he'd fall on the coffee table and I remember laughing at it so so much and showing it to my parents like recording it. And I remember my mom being very worried and being like 'cause I was overweight and I think she was like and so she was like, I don't she once sat me down when I was fourteen like. I was like, I don't want you to be like that. Oh, that's really interesting. Right, like don't don't feel like you need to be a clown . And I think she thought that like, okay, my overweight daughter who's not fitting into the mainstream of culture will feel like the way to be accepted and funny is to be like Chris Farley. Now the majesty of Chris Farley, like I would only be so lucky as to have been like Chris Farley, but as a girl in the mid nineties that, was like not a great path. I love that we're talking about this because it's such an interesting point which is young women, especially in the late eighties and nineties, they're way into comedy. Like how you get in was really fraught in a way that men just did not have to worry about. They didn't have to worry about being physical and not seeming like it was putting people off. They didn't have to worry about like them being too sexualized and they have to worry about a ton of stuff. I think that much like you watching comedy at a young age and being like, I don't know. I want to live in this world. I don't know how to get into it . And it was inhabited by really loud physical men for the most part, and then finding the women who I loved, who I just kind of studied. And for me it was, like, okay, where did they study? Where did these women start? So it was like, oh, I want to go to Chicago. Like, I'm just gonna go there. And when you were like, did you do comedy at Dartmouth? Yeah. Did you do improv? I did in short form imp Irov . We all did. You know, it's so funny. The two things that brought me so much joy in college are so mortifying to me now, but it's where I made so many great friends. I did short form, improv with the dog day players at Dartmouth . And I was in the Dog Dayers Pl stillay there. Dog Day Players is still there. Incredible. And they're so and every so often, like every couple years, I'm sure you feel this we're like, they'll come to LA and I'll meet them or I'll see them at Dartmouth when I go up. And they're so cool now and they do long for m and they also have that like studying thing where they've seen every episode of Parks and Arrested Development, Larry Sanders. You know what I mean? They know everything. A kinship to these people that are twenty five years older than yeah . But the difference is that like the guys in the trooper feminist, the women are unafraid to be with to be who they are. They're all sort of activists. Like all this stuff that I struggled with back then to do because it wasn't appealing. still did. I wanted to be as funny as Adam Sandler and do Operman, but I wanted a also boyfriend and to lose my virgin . And in the late nineties, it was like those two things were maybe like did not seem mutually exclusive. Oh yeah. Acapella group you were also in. I love an Acapella group. Yes, yes. I was in an Acapella group. And what song did you ever have a solo? I had one solo. And what was the song? Nine to five by Dolly Parton. Yes. Sang it badly. It was one of those things you, know's, n whatice is like I don't have a good voice, but I have like a I can like carry a tune. I think I have a good enough voice for a comedy person. And it was like that nice thing about being in a group of women 'cause they're like clearly one person should have all the solos, but they're like, no, no, of course that's not nice. Like eleven do have a solo. So we would I would say nine to five. Yeah. And that Acapella group's name was, hey, man , it was called the Rock elas . Okay. I mean, I just love, I love a pun. Scaller Rac ellas, at the time, it was considered to be the coolest the coolest group if you were a woman at Dartmouth. Of course. And I mean, I for my humble opinion, it was. I think Acapella's very cool. And also now I would say it is cool because hey, this is such a bunch of bullshit, like you're being so nice here, but it's so lame. No, no, I disagree. I don't here's why because even then, I don't even mean in hindsight , anyone who tries something, yeah, okay . That's cool. I guess if you apply like the golden rule of like we should all be putting ourselves out there then it is cool. But I know you 're people being like shoopy dooby bops. I know it was not I know. It was a same thing with improv ship like improv like you know short form improv talk and I again on my formative years, some of the all the boys I had crushes on in college were doing like short form improv, terrible, terrible . And yet it's so lame. Long form improv is cool though. Stand up is the coolest . Back then, like, if you were an improv or sketch group, you'd have your like costumes and wigs or you'd be warming up and stuff like that. You're right. Acapella and improv both you have to warm up, like usually outside. You're like, zip zip zopping. Yeah, that's not a cool . I used to be like, We're cool, but then I'd see like a stand up just literally like throw their cigarette on the ground with a leather jacket and go on stage and I'd be like, oh okay. After you left Dartmouth, did you move to New York? I lived in New York for three years. Okay . And you had some fun, I always love to ask people about their fun jobs. Like their weird jobs. You had some good, weird jobs, right? I had some really good weird jobs. What were some of your weird jobs? The weirdest job I had was that I was a PA crossing over with John Edward, right? The psychic The psychic. Right. And he would do readings in the room and be able to tell if someone had like a dead relative who was trying to contact them. What was weird about it? All that. I can't remember . What was your like? Now, do you believe in do you have a you ever had psychic experience? Do you go to psychics am not I don't I don't go to psychics, but I would say and I've gotten as I've gotten older, even though I know more, I've gotten more superstitious than I used to be to quote Michael Scott. I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitch . I kind of feel like , you know , there's there's all different levels of like woo woo as Rachel Drash would say, like and whether or not you're open to it in your life . And it is kind of a funny catch twenty two where people are like, you have to be really open to it for it to like you have to open your channel for it. I have the most losery astrological sign and the most loser number in the endeagrams. Wow, I love to because there's no loser number in the engaging. You have to say a loser number. What would you think is a loser number? Answer and I'm six . Well, but I would say a six is very sharp. Like a six is like, thank you, Amy. But I have to say I don't know that much about sixes. Yeah, because it's, you know, but it's the most common number. It is. Yes. Yeah. I definitely think it's accurate. Yeah. I feel seen. I haven't been able to use it practically to make my life. I'm gonna send you some fun gifts or gifts, however you like to say. Send me some gifts or I'm gonna send you some fun six gifts of gifts that you're going to love. I think they're a lot like the Harry Potter homes, you know that where everyone's like a grip. It's a very Harry Potter thing . Right. Everyone straight up Sly therin. Dude, that's cool. Slytherin is cool. I wish I was a Slytherin. What are you? I want to be riffendor . You don't know, I think I'm a hoffle puff, which is also fun n.y I want to ref ute it, but listen, all right. I'm right back at you. Okay, but back to okay, so you had some interesting jobs, but I want to talk about Matt and Ben for a second because that show was I remember when that show for people that don't know what was, Matt and Ben? Yes, okay, so I was babysitting at the time , and my friend was a substitute teacher, a new public school substitute teacher, my friend Brenda, and we were kind of miserable . And I had applied to be a page at the NBC page program, and I was certain I was going to get it, and then I didn't. And so we were just kind of like low level depressed like post nine hundred and eleven, just like in jobs. Like, why am I even in New York? Like I have no access to anything. And we started just improvising and I kind of adopted this character of like Ben Affleck in quotations 'cause obviously we didn't know them at all . And she did Matt Damon. And then we were like, we'd just be doing these characters for like ten, fifteen minutes. And we're like, could we do something with this actually as opposed to just like entertaining ourselves? And all of her friends thought it was so stupid. Yeah, great. And let's write a little play about the creative process between friends and competition , which has been interesting to me for a long, long time. And competition between friends who you dearly love each other, but you're also looking out for yourself . And we were twenty one or twenty two writing about what we imagined Mad Damon and Ben Affleck or when they were twenty one, twenty two . It's so psychotic. Like if I was Mad Damon and Ben Affleck, I'd be like, this is Have you ever talked to them about it? I have met Mad Damon once and Ben Affleck like a handful of times and I think they think it's weird . This is a real person. They've been nothing but gracious . It's very strange thing. I would not be nice if someone was playing Medicaillian in a play. I would try to destroy them with my lawyers. My team of lawyers would descend upon them and crush them, but to their credit, Matt, Matt what if Matt and Ben played what if Ben played you? That would be pretty fun. I'd try to crush him with my lawyer. Smart. Yeah. Just use to desist, babe. Just straight away. Like padlock the theater door. I'm gonna take all that good accountant money from you. Yes. And an accountant too. I remember even at the time, I was like, this is radical because it was exactly, it was like two young women kind of assuming what would be like in the heads of like, you know, they were Matt and Ben were archetypes for just like young men like working together and figuring out life together. And I remember you guys making that show and I was like, this is radical. This is like that's so it was. It was very cool. Well, thank you for saying it. I mean, it was so liberating to not have to worry about being pretty. Like we were just as men It was obviously we didn't invent camp, but we got to discover how fun it was to just play men, but really real . And it was great to just we didn't have to worry about any of the things that our contemporaries were kind of worrying about because we wrote the script. We directed it ourselves. Yeah . And it went to like fringe, right? We did it at the fringe festival. We got into the Fringe Festival. We won the Fringerench Festiv fal, then a mo ved off Broadway, and that's when it started getting like attention. That's when like a couple celebrities came and saw it. And that's how it moved to L. A. and how I got hired on the office. You go from Matt and Ben to basically being the only woman in a writer's room at the office . You are not the only woman and the only woman of color in an incredibly smart , hyper talented and nice group of men, but yes, who but still it is your first job. Yeah. I mean, you come from that world. It's competitive . And it's like and so I think that going into that room, like a lot of people now will be like, wow, I can't believe you got hired in the office. You were so young , you must feel so great. And you were like looking when I look at the people who were I was working with, they had been working since they were twenty one , you know, and had already had Emmy's. So I still felt like I was behind . So I think but I will say also like I was such a workaholic. It helped that I was like friendless in Los Angeles and had no hobbies because I was just obsessed with work. I was dazzled by like Mike , BJ, Paul Lieberstein, Greg, you know, and who wouldn't be, like, I had never been in a writer's room and then I'm with these guys who are like even to this day I consider some of the very best comedy writers. Then later like Lee Eisenberg, Jean Stevitsky, like just as dazzling. Yeah . And so I really wanted to impress them. Yeah. I really wanted to date some of them. Yeah , right. And I was varying degrees of successful in those . And when Kelly Kapor was that written like how did how did you find out you were going to be on the show? The way that I got the part was I think Beacha had written this episode called Diversity Day . And one of I think one of the funniest episodes in the office ever incredible . And Greg decided that it would be the second episode . And in order for it to be funny that Michael Scott was offending a room of people, it didn't't it was asn funny if it was just like all white. Like you needed to be offending some people. Right. And so I was so lucky to be in the writer's room and being Indian because he's like, would you play someone that he offends and then slaps him? And I was I mean I was just content to be a comedy writer for the rest of my life. That was like my dream come true. So to be on camera was like just like outrageous. The one thing I think is so groundbreaking about the office was that at that time, the odds, like to be on a show where you didn't have to be like a straightforwardly hot woman. Yes. Like the whole point is, you know, and this is a real Greg Daniels thing. It's like what is beautiful is what is real . Yes. And that wasn't very many shows. That's right. And it was like, I also love, and I'm sure you feel this way too. Actually, maybe you don't, but I love being a meme. It makes me feel young. Are you kidding me? It's my dream when people send me like I've actually been like, can I send people meet my own memes? Oh, do it. It's such a mighty dream. Weird. no there high'ser compliment. I send people memes of Kelly saying this day is bananas all day long to Dave and Ike. Kelly Kapur is to me the definition of what the young people would say like someone who has main charac ter energy. Like she is in her own world, her own show in that show. It's fun to be and nice, I think, to be you know, she is a tertiary character but believes she's a main character . That's like a really nice yes. She has one line every three episodes . Yeah. She's in her own very like intense play and drama forever . And then the show does like I would say like any good character, like the show , like, you know, and you know from writing, like you start to realize like what people's strengths are and you start to write to it , the show starts to realize like, oh, what Kelly can do is like be in this kind of fierce competitive fantasy world that can allow us to like, like you shoot a lot of threes in that show because you like, thank you. They that character is able to go to some really sharp and funny places. Well, she thinks she's the hottest person at the office. Yeah, and like feels bad for Pam. She is , you know, and thinks like Ryan's a huge catch and that And that she's like destined for, you know, fame. And so that is a fun, I mean, it's so fun to play like delusional best characters. Yeah , and to be able to then be delusional on the MIDI project with a different character. It was a good, that's a good segue because you go from I just want to say you ended up writing more office episodes than anybody else. Thank you for saying that. Okay, so everybody needs to know that. So all your office episodes that you love, that everybody's watching every night, there's high probability you wrote it. Like my publicist was like, this is a talking point that needs to come across Amy. I mean, I could talk about this with you forever and maybe it's too kind of inside baseball, but the way you enter the business, you entered the business as a writer and then like in that same time became a performer and you're also a producer. And all those things have like different pros and cons . You really did do it for Mindy. You created, you were like, I'm gonna write, create and star in this show and there's there's nothing harder. There's nothing harder hard . And there's nothing more gratifying. Yeah. Like I was so obsessed with it. I mean, and then coming from the office where I had been there for eight years , had like a line every episode. You know, I was thinking about like recently just like call sheets and to be like the call she et for people who don't know, but they might know is, you know, it's every day it just announces the hierarchy of the production. I love a call sheet so much. Yeah, I could stare at it forever for people that don't',s one it piece of paper that tells you your entire day, week, month, and in many ways your life. You're exactly right. It tells you who is number one, who is number two, who is number three, who is number four? It lists the importance and descending order of the people that are there. And so for years on that show , as is obvious and should be like Steve is number one, like Michael Scott, and Kelly is number eleven . And it's not like, you know, to come at the we just talked about the first season when I was just lucky to have that first, you know, an episode two being able to be in that scene with Steve and to be able to be in Sag and be able to actually do all that. That's huge. But eight years later , I was like, Number eleven gets a little old . And I was like, I really want to see what it's like to literally just have more lines. Yeah, and to be able to take on the thing of like being the comedy engine of a show . And I talked to Ike a lot about this and I think you did this with Parks and probably on SNL too, but like it's a skill to be able to be the star of a sitcom and come in and just be like my engine is on from seven o'clock in the morning until we wrap. Yeah . And I am just like I bring the best out of other people and wake them up for seven in the morning and kind of like a constant host. Yeah . Yeah. And it's interesting and you were watching people leave all day. That was the other thing that was so sad Friday night. You're just waving everyone resting and they're like, have a good weekend. You're like, You two. Like it's just the saddest goodbye. But at the same time, I felt like the days were so much shorter than when I had one line at the office . Like the day flows by because it's just like funny scene after funny scene. Entire departments who were there to help you do your job the best. Yeah, you know, and that was like such a joy, and it's so obvious to say this about being a star of your own show, but like that was it was what I was longing for to assemble my own writing staff . So many of whom like Lang Fisher, Tracy Wigfield and Dave to a new show right now four seasons . And to be able to work with all these people that made me better inspired me. And let's talk about our friend Ike. Mary Holt who was here and who you met on that show. Yeah , and Dave Stassen, those guys are, I mean, let's just Ike is listening. So we should say something nice about him. We should say something nice about him. could just making sure that the white guy is taken care of. I feel comfortable and seen. Look at us. It's just because you know his personality is that like he would he would do that for us. He would This episode is brought to you by Burlington. Here's a question for you. When was the last time you stopped by a Burlington? Oh, they just do coats. That's what you're going with? Well, they got way more going on. Sure, you can pick up a coat , but you're probably gonna leave with a dress, sneakers, brand name beauty, something for your dog, and a candle you didn't know you needed. At Burlington's prices, you can just get it all. 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What are you the alibi police? That's literally exactly who I am. You're killing me all episodes now streaming on acorn TV The other thing is that I love that you've spoken about with Minnie Project is like in many ways it is a tribute to your mom. Yeah. And because your mom is an OBGYN Yours, doctor Dr. Ya. Yep, sorry. OBGYN doctor For Indian people, that's a huge distinction. I know the country . Okay, so she wasn't a doctor, doctor, though, was she? Oh, she was a doctor. She was a woman doctor Surely she was taking notes and the male doctor would the male doctor would come in and come in particular. Yeah . No. But your character was kind of a tribute to her and your mom can you speak a little bit about your mom ? You spoke you speak about her all the time and she seemed talking about my mom. So the character on the Mindy Project, I mean she couldn't have been more different than my mom's personality , but I loved the world of playing at OBGYN . My mom's had such a great personality because she spent her entire day with women, telling who told her the most personal things about their love lives and reproductive hopes and just everything and all their problems . It's such a personal relationship . And to have a world like that it was like, honestly, some of it was laziness. I didn't have to research that much. I just understood what the office looked like and what the nurses were like and so but so that was that. I also think it's nice for a lead character in a show, particularly when the character is so out there and sort of selfish and flawed to have such a selfless job , you know, helping women you were like, inherently she's a good person even if all she says all day is that she wants to get married and get railed by hot men, you know what I mean? You're like, okay, like she's helping women through some of the hardest transitions of their lives. Do you feel like you could, after doing that show, do you feel like you could deliver a baby? Do I feel like I could deliver a baby? I feel like I could affect the confidence that could really put a woman at ease. Oh, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And I think this is this is like a real stupid actor over confident talk. I feel like a good figure. I think you could. I've had three kids. I feel like I watching. Yeah, I feel like you could deliver a baby. I hear that. I think I mean I have a problem where I think I can do things that I wouldn't be able to do. Like what? Deliver a baby. Deliver a baby. I feel like I could. I don't want to, but I feel like I feel there's a part of me that's like I could at least be enthusiastic about like getting people to push. I think there's some parts that would break me out a little bit. Yeah . Sean a lady back up. Yeah, we don't we don't need to do that. We're gonna get sick. I can. I can touch it up. I just mean the delivery. Yeah, I don't think I could do a C section. Like I have a thick Yeah, oh no, C section. Forget it, no, I'm not do going that to. You know what? I take a bag . We shouldn't do it. We shouldn't do it. We shouldn't be around anyone who's pregnant. Oh, and then before I move on to your more TV stuff, I do want to talk about we had a really fun trip one time, you and I , where we went to Cannes together. Yeah , for inside out . And it was like I've never been before or since I've never been back to Canada really glamorous. And it was very clam orous. Yeah. It was the first time I had ever been on that kind of international press tour or on the steps of the Ammy. I think about that press tour so much. I do too. I think about it a lot. One, it was so hot and sweaty. Yeah. Very hot and sweaty. Like we were always like in the beating sun and like but beautiful Yes. But always like I was sweating through my clothes constantly. And I remember this distinctly and maybe this is offensive, that we would be doing like an international junket. And unlike an American junket, it would be like the questions would be like I don't know, maybe because of , I don't know, culturally it was just a ruder. Let's say it. Why are you? Yeah, you are so fat. You're smiling, but your face is not nice to look at. Your face is not nice. Why do you think that people like to look at your face? In America , a fat unsmiling woman can be starved . We read you can you have your own sitcom, but you are fat? Yes. You are obviously hufflepuff and yet you believe you're girlfriend . Stuff like that. You play joy, but you are not in your twenties? Yes, and you didn't smile at me when I was asking you a question. So I'd find you joyful at all. And so okay, remember, you know that Javier Bard Damn clip when he's on a junket that has gone viral where someone's like, he's working with Penelope Cruz and he's a European journalist is like, so you work with your wife. You must be crazy to work with a woman like that you're married to most people would want to kill themselves if they had to do such a thing. And he's like, I find that very offensive . And I was like, Watch that and I was like, Oh , only can you, I can never imagine sticking and being having a spine in an international press junket and being like, how dare you, sir? I was like just laugh. I feel let me ask you, what are your generational pronouns? How do you identify a are you millennial? Do you identify as millennial? This is a very sore topic for me. Okay , because for a while I was considered a ziennial. Okay , which was a have you heard of the No, this is making you be a millennial is making me a millennial . But I was like, oh, thank God , because when I was growing up, like when I was like in middle school, like the movie singles was out. Yeah . And I was like, that's to me Gen X. That's Jen X. You know, Ben Stiller , that's Jen X, right? Yeah. And then now Zaniel went away and now they're just like people are just like, You're Gen X. Like I can Dave are like world genex together. That's not true. They're making themselves younger than they are . You have a lot of Genex qualities . I will say and I love Gen X, so I love Gen X too. But you have but you're ten years younger, so you might be like millennial. To your point about pleasing, like getting somebody hard to please, I realize I have that with boomer men . Interesting. I was little just bit a like like in their mid sixty five, I'm like a little like boss situation. Something that it so resonates with me 'cause I felt that way about Greg, Daniel. Yes. Greg and like Conan. Yes, you know , and then obviously all the SNL people that were there when you were there, like, I feel exactly the same way, but now I'm technically the same generation, which is breaking my heart. Yeah, that's a little weird. But I do feel that way because we were the gatekeepers. We didn't talk about Conan. You did get that page job. I was an internet connect. Internet. So I didn't when I was still in college, I applied to be an internet Conan. That's actually that job is what made me thought that I maybe would get the page job because those internships were considered hard to get . And that's where I first learned what comedy writers did. Although like a variety show comedy writer is like such a different job than like a sitcom comedy writer. And I actually think the personalities of a variety show comedy writer is very different than a sitcom . How is it different? I think that there's well, I think of one as like a quintessent ially New York job, although of course there's variety shows out on the West Coast and one is like an LA job. Yeah . I think they are both very funny, but there's like a more this is not true, but this is the way I thought of it. Yeah, like there was more of like a cerebral darker energy to New York variety show writers, right? Where it was like joke joke, jokes, how we get the best jokes, monologue, sketches, like it's, got to be like quick and funny and then you're done if you live or die by hard jokes. And then the sitcom writers which is like story and let's think about the characters and so as someone who wanted to be in the New York world, but that was slammed. The door slammed shut in my face. I kind of came up in this other world . And so I always thought like, oh my god, that's so intimidating. That's why I guest wrote on SNL , which is where I I think, that was the first time I met you. Okay, we was trying to remember the first time we met, was it when you were guest writing? two thousand five? Yeah. And that was when I met you and Tina. And I remember this and I don't know why I remember this story and I'm not proud of it. And I don't know why I would possibly come up with two women that I admire and just came up. I don't know, but we were somewhere and I was like, yeah, I just want to lose thirty pounds. And the two of you stopp ed and were like, What? That is too much weight . And I remember I was so happy for like three weeks after that I was like, wow, Amy and Tina don't think I'm a fat load. Like I was so noman never even in the odds, like you guys were like, what are you crazy? But I was thinking like why would I have told that to them? That's so weird. I would say because if we're to get real because that's how women talk to each other. Is that I think it is. Like I think we all like Weight Watchers. It was 'cause at the time there was a conversation about weight watchers. I think we were like we just like everybody else were like constantly trying to figure out everybody's relationship to being on camera. Yes. And I do think that for better or for worse, what women do for each other and to each other is they talk about their bodies to each other . We are we like, you know, it's one of the things I love so much and I'm sure you're the same way. Like I love about my female friends is I can really say like, I'm feeling this way and that way and it's kind of how we like say hello. No, I mean, I think to be able to be with two of my heroes and have them acknowledge because you could have easily been like, We don't ever think about it. We're naturally thin. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. People are like, I don't know what you're me, I don't understand. I just eat whatever I want. I mean for you to say that you weren't just like we are naturally, then we eat whatever we want. You didn't. And so I think that that was , I think, a really kind it was a kindness for you to acknowledge and like, oh yeah that so I could I could see that in my heroes, but it is really it is really fascinating and nice that culture has changed so much. It has but it hasn't, it hasn't, right? Because we're still as king people about their weight. We're still asking people about their bodies. I mean, I actually really try, I have a couple like rules that I never say out loud on this podcast, but one of them is I try not to talk about people's bodies . Because it's like people's bodies are their own business. If you had the male cast of off campus here , yeah, I'd want them. I just want 'em to throw me against that bookshelf. Yeah. And they'd flex and they'd be fine with it. I know it's a fine . You can't. Yeah, you can't. But it's good. It's good that you can't . It's good that okay, but this is a good segue into okay, ' youCause have made what Into Not suitable for work. Okay, okay, yes, yes. What you can't do. Yeah. What you can't do. Yeah. I'm so surprised like I was wondering what is this way to be you have a new show out on Hulu not suitable for work . It is, you've called it kind of the third in a tri logy . Can you I'm really trying to get that I have a trilogy that I'm like Peter Jackson? You're a mogul. You have a trilogy? I have a trilogy just like me . I mean one of the things about being a mogul is you have to start talking like everything you did was like a perfect you know it's all part of a master plan that I master plan. I have to embody that more that things are not just like accidental . It's just not necessarily every moment. Whatever's happening, no making light on this. That makes sense because this is the third in the installment. But you have made three TV shows. Never have I ever sex as a college is a college girl, thank you and not to do a workplace. All three are like I mean, they're very, very different, but what would you say is a unifying theme in all of them? I think I love writing for underdogs and ambitious people and people with lots of big wants and needs both like romantically and professionally and who feel like they don't have access to it to it . And that's sort of, I think, the thing in common with all three of those shows. Yeah. And a lot of horniness working on not suitable for work. I mean, this cast is they're so funny. They're so good and they were all none of them were unknown. They had all had like a lot of success, but I wouldn't necessarily say that they were like super , super well known yet. But Will Angus was in a very popular sketch troop, Ella Hunt was on that wonderful show , Dickinson, Avantica was in Mean Girls, but this is just a way to have them all together. And they're super funny, they're super appealing, and I loved working with them. Avantica is who we spoke to today to get the question for you . Really? And Avantica is so we did a we did this thing in the beginning where we talk well behind our guests back. And I really wanted to speak to Avan Sak for a couple of reasons . One is she is like , you know, you are the example of what she watched growing up. You were representation in real physical form, somebody who wrote their own parts, who created their own stuff for themselves, and who also , like you said, like enjoy , like you enjoy being entertained. Your shows are not homework. No, I think I'm not writing shows for like television studies professors. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Not that I don't think that's an important job in things, but I want to do something that's like times are hard. That's right. You know, when like my mom was sick and she wanted to watch something, it's like, we watch modern family. It was like, I want to watch something that's like legitimately so funny. Yeah, and I like seeing people fall in love and I love great costumes and doing something in the city. Yeah. I also love the office where it has not those qualities, but it's super funny. But I do know what you're saying and I take it as a compliment. And she spoke being around you and like your curiosity and also just like your curiosity about other people's lives and young lives and like really like your support as a producer and as a person . And also, Mindy, just what I think is so impressive about you is you you feel like you're working within the system and you're also still a person like the rest of us, I guess. So it's like you are this mogul who also is like just along for the ride like the rest of us. Like it's very hard to do both of those things. And I think you do it really, really well. Oh my gosh. And she speaks about that. And it's funny. Her question is so cute. It was like, what is your egot? Like, but she was like, what are the what are four things that Mindy wanted more? Did I know? I said, That's too many things. That's so many things. I agree. Do you feel this way where if you see a movie you love or you listen to an album or you see a Broadway musical 're. kind You of like , should I like try to write a Broadway musical? Should I like I'll listen to and I'll go to I'll go which you're nailing so now you should do the next thing. I feel you. I see something and I'm like I, S tryhould? Should I try that? That's like, I think notoriously how bad art is formed, right? When people are doing stuff that they're not equipped to do, but are have this delusional feeling that they can. And I've done that many times. But you know what I'm really impressed is like I always think about Jordan Peel and Greta Gerwig. Oh yeah and how as does the rest of the world. But I love that Jordan came from sketch comedy and with Greta coming from being an actress and like the muse of Noah Bombach, and then being like, well, I want to direct and then taking something like Barbie and making it like this great movie about feminism. so And and now doing the Narnia stuff. Like so I'm always really inspired by them. I think that's the thing is I'd love to be able to write and direct movies. Yeah . Another thing and this is not creative, but like I feel like my feed on Instagram is just always about how fleeting our time with our children is. It's just like it's just like frightening post after frightening post about how like you have eighteen summers with these people like I didn't know it was the last time I would pick him up exactly. It's like Jesus Christ. He's haunting things about these wonderful children that I love. And so I really want to be able to hang with them and be with them in a real way where they look back at it and they're like, how was mom able to do that but then also do these other be there for us so much at the time? And I know I'll fail, but like I really want to try to be there. My mom set the bar. She was so busy. Like, we missed Thanksgivings because she was delivering a baby. She wasn't there for the school play. And I was the perfect match for her as a daughter because I just thought it was like glamorous. Yeah. And I was like, wow, mom's like really doing a lot . But I have three kids. I don't know that they're gonna think maybe one of them will they be that way and the other two won't. So I got to really I got to really invest in being the thing. What else would I want to do? I don't want to hold public office. No , I don't want to adopt like seven kids. I love the people who do that. I can't three is enough. Three is a lot. I don't think I want to like teach at a college. You know that. You don't know that . Don't rule that out. Think about this. Okay, I like this. Think about this future though. Like that you get to come in like I often think about, you know , like the next decade. Think about coming in like a beautiful sweater , like Dartmouth, let's say. Yeah . Drive in at ten o'clock in the morning , have your coffee . You know, you the door creaks open and there's like one hundred and fifty like kids staring at you and you start your class . Nobody gets to interrupt and you're done in an hour . You know, you read that book about it, then you read a movie about it. That's all I'm saying. I think that sounds that does sound good. That does sound good. We don't have to grade papers. No paper. Nothing like that. It'll be like a paper. Yeah, there'll no paper. I like that. Or I also like when they you get to a certain age and then like TV shows just want like that kind of like decrepit grandme. Oh yeah, to come and you just say a couple lines and everyone's like laughing . They just like lift you onto a seat. Yeah. When you get to the point where people are like, she looks good. She looks good. This has been so fun, Mindy. Has it been? Yeah, do you this is not very anneagram six of you. It is very aneagram. I'm stressed. I don't know, I just, I love this so much . I've been very entertained. Okay , I've been obvious episodes. And I just, I'm just fast forwarding to my to my nanny Jenny sitting on the sofa and hoping that she doesn't click away . No, she's gonna have. I mean, she's gonna be she's going to be going to be wrapped. Okay . And also my last question to you is like what are you because I know you are like you're a pop culture consumer. Yeah. What who is making you laugh these days? What when you want to, like, you know, I know for me it's hard for me to kind of watch comedy. Like it's like yeah what do you watch to check out, tune out, laugh , like feel like is it a video? Is it TikTok? Is it a show? is it I'm not on TikTok for no real reason. It's not like a decision, but I think it's tied to in some way like productivity. Like I'm worried I'd be too into it. Damn, that's so true. But for me , the biggest thing that I'm into, I mean I do like a lot of dramas and like your friend Emily Spybee love murder . But I think for me I loved the curse. Is that ' thes right name. It was the Nathan Fielder Show. Yes. Really strange and really strange interesting fielder. And Nathan Fielder, who is like , I think for people my age or women, he's a real heart throb too. He's a millennial heart throb. He's a millennial throbbing heart throb. I'm happy for him. He's so funny and with Emma Stone. I loved that show. Yes . That was a really good weird show. Weird show. And I mean, it's honestly like it's like, what don't I like? Most of the time I like stuff. Like I like all the things that you would expect. Like I love Abbott and I love hacks and I like all the dramas. Like who doesn't like the pit? It's like I like those things and that's like I love it's such a delight to watch them and see people who are really good at their craft doing things Yeah, you're able to enjoy still knowing knowing how things work. You're able kind of like the very at beginning of when we started talking about it, which is like, you know how hard it is to make something good ? Totally. Mindy Kaling, thank you for being here. Thank you for taking the red eye. Only for Amy Poller. I'm so happy you could do this. Thank you so much for doing that. you Thank Amy, It was such a great . Thanks everybody . Thank you so much, Mindy Kaling. You're always so honest and forthcoming and funny, and it was really great to have you. And you know, Mindy and I got into a lot of really interesting topics, including being a working mother, and deciding to just do the things you love and try to as best you can avoid the things that you hate . And I have a strong feeling about that. I feel like in motherhood, there's things that you like, you love, you feel neutral about, and you really don't like to do. And if you can try to avoid the things that you really don't like to do, then the rest , you know, the rest might come a little easier. So some people get stressed around , you know, bath time, some people don't want to go to the park, some moms hate taking their kids to get shots . I mean, who loves that? But you know what I mean? Either way, I would just say