Prenuptial Agreements and Finances

Tala nearly went bankrupt. There was about three months where every single week I was wondering if we'd make payroll. I spent a good few years like on the path to like full burnout, like full, cannot get out of bed. I wasn't even ovulating. my whole body had gone into shut down If someones siting right now, a female founder or someone who is starting a business, what advice would you give that person Big question That is great advice Im Grace Beverly and I'm in Gre race Bevery Grace Beverly. Your husband. When he proposed to you, it was I think some of the world's greatestos like he organized a fake trip for you. Yeah. We'd arrived at the hotel, they'd had briefing call. So they arrived, they go, are you here for the Armani event? He'd flown out an Armani makeup artist to do my makeup. Everyone exing on this. Oh This is insane. You said your miscarriage was like invisible grief. No one knows that you were pregnant and it's just you have to continue. It's entirely unfair that you wouldn't get your baby And then also you're expected to well, you didn't have that. So here we go. Guess you're back to work. If you lose your pregnancy at Tala, you can take a formmer time to leave Wow. Leading from the front like that is so important. Women are expected to do so many different things to such a high standard. I think that if you can have solid female friendships alongside whatever else you're doing, completely You always be in an okay place. We have so much onus put on finding a relationship, on settling down, on getting married All of these different things, I mean, female friendships aren't said to be a priority in the world This is a Monday. com ad The same Monday. com helping people worldwide getting work done faster and better The same Monday. com designed for every team and every industry. 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There's a podcast out there with fans waiting to be your next customer They tune in every week, they trust the host, and that host wants to talk about brands like yours in their own words to their audience. The problem is, you just haven't been introduced yet. We're a cast where that introduction happens as the world's largest podcast marketplace. We let you brow shows, see who's listening post read sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform. Transparent pricing, real time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting acast d. com slash advertise So you think they are? Hey guys, welcome back to Great Company. Really excited because we have Grace Beverly on the show. We go all over the place with it. It's incredible. Get ready for it. Now before we start, if I can ask one quick thing, that is if you can press that subscribe button. It notifies when you have another episode and you join the amazing community that' already subscribed. Okay, enjoy this incredible episode of great company with Gace Beverly What scares you out motherhood? Oh, there's so much. Really? Yeah Yeah, there's a lot. L I have always known that I've wanted to be a mother. I used to I actually used to say so much as a child, like, I really want to be a really good mum that my sister told me the more you say that, the worse m you become because I was pissing her off so much. So perfect. Yeah, exactly. So clearly like the aspiration was there from the beginning I just I think I've built my career in like a very specific way, right? Like over the past, I've been doing this for ten plus years and Every few years I've added on what feels like a really good add on for where I am at in my career and the teams I've been able to build and all of that to be able to facilitate me to do more and more of what I feel my skill set is. And that's conscious choice, that's conscious prettyretty much everything I've done is quite specifically reverse engineered for the type of life I want to live and the type of businesses I want to build and the type of work I want to have. Like even when I essentially kind of fell into, I guess, being a content creator. When I came out of Uni immediately, I was like, this is not what I want to do. So deleted all my YouTube videos overnight, like went like stopped posting for two years, focused on building the businesses because I was like, that's what I actually want to do. So what scares me about motherhood is that what you can imagine from all of that is like a complete It's complete control. like it's complete control over and takeaking me wr every part of the business is certain amount out of your control and I deal with that every day as well. But I'm so trained to deal with that and I've done that for so long that I feel like that is really what I'm good at And I this is really unknown. It's so unknown.. And it's so many variables and so much so many uncontrollable aspects and I just and so far from b I feel like my day to day ' like G. do you know what you by the way, you're gonna to relate to Vy people who feel the same way. and I think that especially when you're a bit of a control freak, like I am as well, I need to be in control of different things. When you are having a baby, it feels like something you can't control. And a baby is a baby and it's there and it has needs and desires and wants, and it's a human and everything. And so you have to let go of that control one hundred percent, I think two parts of that, A, I literally have OCD, like diagnoseed OCD. So there's an element of that that I'm kind of like, I've been trying to I don't know. I've been trying to work around that, but also almost like use the parts of that that I feel like are my superpower, not to I mean, everyone will have a different experience who's been diagnosed with OCD. like I'm not talking for anyone else, but for me I have tried to mitigate the bad sides of things whilst also being able to use the sides of things where I'm like, well, this actually means that I'm amazing at this, this, this and this. I think that that is so far from like you have to let go of control so much when it comes to motherhood and parenting and all of that that is probably like I feel like I'm being thrown so in the deep end from where I am now Um How does your OCD manifest ever four to point two? How How does that Lots of different ways. As you can probably tell, like I'm very intentional around how I've done everything and that's like my happappy place. Okay and that's where I feel it's weird. L I feel most free in an environment where I can control a certain amount of like Like my recurring dreams are about being unprepared for exams, for example. like every single night fucking dream about the fact that I'm sitting my finals the next day and I've not done the work for it. And like that's my version of a true nightmare because like my freedom sits within a certain level of control and a certain amount of that is unhalthy. But's such a jxtaposition, though. Yeah. Your freedom sits in the place where you control it, right? Yeah. But to me, that's where I feel, I guess, like safest and happiest and all of that I think that the well, another big way it manifests is that Like there's the less nice sideides of things. like I get really strong intrusive thoughts. like I struggle a lot with like the I think the reason I try and be prepared for every single outcome, which is impossible when you have businesses isn and impossible when you're juggling so many different things But it is because I constantly think that the worst is going to happen in every single scenario. Yeah, it's exhausting. Really busy up here. Wow. whoa. I didn't, but you you're a risk taker. Yeah and you Push boundaries like way before so many people's times at such a young age and done so many things that no one would do. And the reason why a lot of people wouldn't do that is because they would be afraid of the outcome. feels like a I didn't realize that it was so busy in your mind. Yeah. Well, I think that that I think that's fair to say, mine was almost the opposite in that when I started the businesses. And generally in the first few years of I guess entrepreneurship, although I didn't necessarily see it that way at the time I was not very happy in a number of different ways. So it felt like actually the risk was staying where I was. rather than doing the big leap things of kind of like getting out of there. So I think when a lot of people think of like, oh, is it really cringe if I do all of this or if I start this or if I start posting about this then they naturally feels like the safest version is not to do that. I always try and encourage people to flip that on its head where it's kind of like, okay, well what's worth living a life that's designed for someone else because you're so worried about what everyone else is going to think to me is a bigger risk than actually just You make sense trying to go for these today bigger things. But when you get those intrusive thoughts, right? and you think the worse is going to happen, When something does go wrong Do you then say to yourself, I told you, I knew this was going to happen? Or do you look at it more logically than that I think I'm relatively logical. I think that one of the things that it means is that I'm very prepared al most outcomes because I. Well yeah, one hundred percent. And I try and I'm not very good at being, but I try and be aware of like what's actually helpful and what's unhelpful in terms of like that internal monologue. but does mean that a lot of the time I'm I guess you know, if the worst that's going to happen is this What three things can we do that mean that we're prepared in that scenario. not in a kind of truly exaggerated sense, but actually Some places that's a helpful exercise, Some places is not a helpful exercise. And I guess the battle for me has been differentiating, which is which and not needing to approach everything in my personal life, for example, with the same rigor that I would try and approach it to You know, run a business and manage billions of investors money and all of those different things. Do you remember the first time when you felt out of control Yeah, I think that from relatively early on I definitely realized that I preferred situations that I was able to control the outcome more. like I really liked going into an exam, for example, feeling very prepared for it and feeling like I truly understood things and whatever it might be. And I think that one thing that's probably Mbe a misconception about me maybe not, but is that I because I had quite a I guess textbook. high achieving kind of Beginning I don't know, but I think that the Actually, I was told throughout school I wasn't like as in that and I don't say this is sore at all. I genuinely think this is what's like motivated me to get to where I am now and to get to that point. It's like I was told over and over like in primary school, my parents were told like she she's not. an academic candidate for anything, she's unlikely to you know be able to go to any of the kind of more competitive school so I would just like don't stick her through the eleven plus, like just don't, you know, like this is not, that's not the direction for her. And that definitely like continued in a narrative. like every single thing that I achieved that was impressive. I never got the first time. L it was never a so you see Oxford, I didn't get in the first time. likeike I tried twice sameame with many different like literally every single thing I have that's impressive that I've done was not achieved the first time. I was never particularly good at things. and so was constantly told that over and over. It was kind of like, yeah, yeah, like fine. And so like for my GCSEs, for example, I was predicted like Yeah. I was predicted Nike don know, like in some of the subjects I really loved and thought, you know, I would do well at. I remember coming home with my predicted grades which were like very different from what my older sisters had got and it was kind of a handful of C's and some Bs here and there and like all of that. and I just remember being like, oh, like I This is so refreshing to hear. No good. I'm so this is so refreshing to hear. Well, for some people like as in, I don't know I don't know. I'm always resistant to say these things because I think everything's so relative because obviously like for some people that would be you know, as in like, that wouldn't be something that they'd be upset about or whatever but I just remember like that was constantly the narrative that was around me. It was just like, that's not her lane And so like I remember, for example, when I when I came home with those predicted grades, like I doubled down and like wrote myself this like insane revision schedule and realized that I didn't learn very well from Tuition method I was receiving like I just didn't learn by wrote. I just wasn't good at that. So like got all the textbooks, set myself different like literally had it on a calendar on my wall of like, this day, we're going through this chapter, this day, we're going through this chapter, this day, we're going through this chapter, printed off all the past exams, like all of this, went through that. That was my first example after GCSEs, like I remember coming out of that And I remember getting the results and I got like an award for getting the highest in my school. And I just remember being like, what the fuck? Like I was like explicitly like they called my parents into meeting and were just like, this is not you know, like this is not where we'd expect it to maybe be, but this is what we're expecting for her. And I think from that point I started to like really put two and two together of like, okay, that makes sense. When you're stressed about things and when things feel that far out of your control you are only a certain level of preparation away from making that reality different And I think that is great advice Yes, I think I may have taken it too far at some point. But I agree. I think that that became like almost like a drug for me. My whole narrative has been if you take things into your own hands and if you do X, Y, Z to be able to put yourself there There have still been examples where I've fallen sh, but it was like that element of control was actually, as I said, what brought me that freedom of being able to achieve what I wanted to achieve. Yeah, because it's so true because what you found at a young age is you found that awareness that you can actually do it yourself. And I think I also learnt in a way that like I was always very I think I always wanted to do the right thing. L I wanted to, I don't mean that from a moral sense, although like as much as we'd hoped that. Like as in genuinely I wanted the acceptance and validation, and yes, that was the right thing to do or whatever. So even prior to that point, it'd been like, well, surely the way everyone else is doing things is the right way to do things because everyone else knows better And so that's what kind of enabled that change is that those early times were some of the first times where I was like, actually Sometimes different things work for different people. and this clearly isn't working for me. And Therefore, what if I do all of this myself. And I kind of I don't know I've built up a real trust in myself. always get myself through these situations. Does that make you stubborn I don. My husband's all stab on the meace so it can't be that bad. But yeah, I mean, I mean, do you still feel you have something to prove to the teachers? Was it to your parents? Was it to your family? Where was that drive coming from be to break down those barriers and say, well, if someone's telling me no, I know I can do it and I want to do. because a lot of people We would just go, I can't get talkks. if I've been told I'm not getting talks so I'm not going to that school or' school, Okay, fine, I'll just accept that. You didn't want to accept that. But that needs to come from somewhere Yeah, I don't think if I'd If someone had talked to me at the time, for example, around the Oxford thing, if someone had talked to me and said You're not going to get in I probably still would have bought that whilst trying to do the opposite. if that makes sense. It's not that I had this ferce conviction in myself that was just like No, you're completely wrong. I was kind of like, well, yeah, might well give it a go. And like these are the things that I'm going to do. And like if I don't get there at least I know I gave it a good try. I think that like in terms of like what's the motivation, what's the drive, I I thinkink if you spoke to And I'll be interested toar if you agree. I personally think if you spoke to any single entrepreneur ever, they've all got a chip on their shoulder genuine like sorry I think it's the case because it is an insane thing to do. deeper. I want to go exain what is your chip? What do you mean by this? I think I think there can be different things for different people. Like for some things it's proving something to someone. For something, like I think I was really quite quite an insecure teenager.. And I yeah, and I think that I I started in my first business was eighteen and I started suddenly being able to prove to myself that actually like Maybe not that I was like the most fun person or the prettiest or the like this, that and the other Money. can do that really well. And so I think that that like, you know, it's not that that so became everything, but I I started to realize that I was good like various of these different things, particularly without needing other people's buy in. likeike it wasn't necessarily that I needed you to find it cool that I was selling eBooks online I found it cool that I was seeing the fruits of that Be I just want to understand this because I think this chip on the sh idea is really interesting, right? Because being Being an entrepreneur, you have there has to be something driving you. And there's that whole saying which is are you being dragged? are you driving? And tyypically we're being dragged by something, like idea to be seen or to make someone proud or whatever. I think with so much entrepreneurship as well, it goes beyond the threshold of like what would make sense in terms of like, okay, well, if you were just doing it to succeed in this area, which I see some people do great and they're happy. I also see lots of people who have you know the serial entrepreneurship, the exit after exit, the complete obsession with like constantly hitting new heights. And I think that has to, and I say this from my perspective, so perhaps I am projecting. I think that to a certain extent has to come from underlying seearch for validation that's not being found elsewhere How important a friendships to? Very, very important. I think one thing that I like try and make really clear, even across socials now, for example, is, yes, I would love you to take me seriously as a very important businesswoman The most important things to me in my life are my relationships outside of work and particularly female friendships. explain why I believe that what you can get out of female friendships. is and what you can the fulfillment, you can both like give to and get out of female friendships is unlike so many other things. And I think that particularly for young women we have so much onus put on finding a relationship, on settling down, on getting married, on all of these different things. I mean, women are expected to do so many different things to such a high standard. and to never look like it's hard and all of this, all comes from the like having it all aspect But I think that actually for so long, that's meant that female friendships aren't said to be a priority in the way that I absolutely think they are. likeike I think that You know, I'd like to think that my marriage will last forever. I'd like to think that every relationship I've been in will last forever and all of these different you know, that my businesses will last forever and all of these different things. I think that if you can have solid female friendships alongside whatever else you're doing, completely you will always be in an okay place. I think that friendship' the most important thing. And actually there's that great analogy. We had a guy called Bob Waldinger on, who's part of the happiness test basically saying that connections with family and friends are the most important things to make you happy in life. And actually when we go through life, we forget that But you haven't, You've realized how important friendship is. Yeah, and I definitely think there have been like look There have absolutely been times like where I haven't prioritized it as anywhere near as much as I should. Like I'm clearly a workaholic. but I think that way you can Like it can look like different things to different people and I have no doubt and things will change as I go into motherhood and have less time in that respect. Certain things change twoo of my closest friends moved to Australia. That was like a I was like, well, you know how am I going to deal with this? I talk to you about everything all the time. Like various different things, there are always going to be changes, but I think having a It's just like knowing your life pillars. L knowing what your pillars are, your core pillars are and how to uphold them. because I think that that really has been over the past few years why I've not just I think prior to the past few years, I'd been at a point where I'd been like Yes happappy with my life, happy with my career, still striving for more, but like happy with where I am. I think that over the past few years I've really focused on, okay, what genuinely would make you happy outside of thinking that your career is ticking lots of boxes? Like genuinely in the day to day, in your soul, like what you are getting from all of that. And I think that Absolutely, that comes from friendships and just knowing what you're knowing, as you say, how you water that, knowing You don't need to have T ten really close friends. How many close friends do you have? t want to say a number and people cut themselves out. because the re the reason why I said is I heard that firstly that you have a fixed state that you'll see your friends every week, which is amazing. And I remember looking on social media seeing one of the greatest things I've ever seen is when your friend had just given birth. You and your friends get on the train, dressed as cleaners, turn up our house and help her with her, clean the house Greatest video ever. Thank you. It's fantastic. Amongst everything else, amongst working as hard as you're working, you're still creating time for others, for your community, for your village Yeah. I mean, I think And as are they for me. I think like the main thing is is as with anything that you believe is a priority, it has to be a priority in your schedule really love the saying, if someone followed you around for a week, would they believe you're serious about your goals? And I think we often focus on that in terms of career and in terms of lifestyle. I don't think we necessarily focus on that in terms of like Okay, well, if one of your goals is to build connection and feel fulfilled and have great friendships, Where are they in your week And I'm not saying I know that people have, you know, particularly people with dependence, particularly people who are working alongside that, particularly people who have moved across the world, all of this, it doesn't need to be sitting down and having dinner. It can be the phone call, like you phone them while you're walking to the gym or you or in your lunch break or like whatever it might be. It is facilitating connection in a way that matches your schedule and matches the way you live. And I think that that's one thing I got wrong for a while, and I just couldn't work it out, and I was just like, I guess I'm just having to prioritize career actually various different things that I've done a lot of content on like How to make a village, how to be a part of a village, Like that cleaning thing as I was saying, like everyone wants to have a village, no one necessarily wants to do that getting on the train and doing a full deep house clean for when you haven't even cleaned your own house for your friend. but like that is, you've got to be the village, you don' wanted to have a village and all of that. And I think that Again, it's just tailored to me and what my life looks like. So for example, with the ly Friends Dinners. That's like If it was on a Friday night. And it was always at a nice restaurant There's no way it's happening It is, however, on a Monday night, which I know sounds insane. and at the beginning I was very anpi It's on a Monday night t a friend's house and the rule is we all look like shit. as in you actually can't compromise on that rule. So people come like come with wet hair in pajamas or you know like as in and sometimes someone will have cooked, sometometimes it will be a takeout situation. It's like there's no way I can cook this week. I can't even make it to the shops like whatever it might be. And again, it's just like a standing thing. It's just on repeat because if we all have to go to the like additional mental load of booking something in the diary We and actually at the moment, I'm renovating my place before we have the baby. Jesus. And so Wise. And soress. We should be moving in in three weeks. Stress levels feeling good. Oh yeah, feeling strong.. But like so all of that has fallen out the window at the moment because'm not I'm living in a temporary place. I'm not kind of as like everything's kind of all over the place. But it's and so it's about knowing that not all of your pillars are going to be like completely upright the whole time. You can still showve and be that any version of yourself It doesn't matter. Exactly. And you you can still pick that back up. You can still you just need to when you say something's a priority, it needs to be a priority in the actual realization of what that looks like in your schedule. Can I have do your friends show up for you as well? Yeah So before this pregnancy I had a miscarriage u in like October of last year And obviously that was really difficult. And at the same time we had our Westfield tallest door opening like literally the next week And so I had to likeike, I mean, I had to have an operation. I had to get the operation moved forward. in order to be able to do the recovery and time to be able to make it to the store opening because I was just like On top of everything, I really don't want to miss this thing that we've worked so hard for and itchy like I'd done the whole prep for the store also in first trimester because I had the whole first trimester. So I'd been kind of violently nauseous all over the place, trying to like build the store, get it into place the week before we actually open. I end up having a miscarriage. So I'm obviously like emotionally completely thrown, grieving massively. going through an operation, the hormonal cliff of that is massive. like I don't think That was ever even talked about to me from doctors or whatever it might be. L it is a huge Um and every single day that week and my My husband, he's self employed. so I mean, he's there for me throughout absolutely everything. and of course he was there for me throughout all of that. There was no way he could not be at work. He had contracted work. It's not like a kind of you, talk to your boss and say, you know, this is going on or whatever And so everyvery day I would have been alone at home. Every single day one of my friends got permission to work from home to work from mine and like They I cleaned my house, they cooked my food They did they brought me like of like Sadookkus and crosswords and like foot masks and we watch full seasons of things and they were fully still needing to do their jobs and sitting there and still doing their jobs. They had rotors set up with each other in order to make sure that I wouldn't be alone at home. and in order to make sure that I would be recovered in time to be able to do the thing that I had said fully, like everyone was like, you don't have to. And I was like, a hundred percent, I'm going to be at the story opening. Like I'm not missing this. Like this is This is, you know, I've worked so hard for this. And so You are a village to other people. and it doesn't always go that's a credit to your friends, but also a credit to you because when When people show up for you, that means you show up for them. And what I've talked about before as well is like it's not always been like that . like as in that's been a very conscious effort on a number of different people's things. And don't get me wrong You're going to have different tiers of friendships. There are going to be some people who would do that for you and some people who never would and you still have a great time with and you just don't ask it of them and you wouldn't do that for them either. Like it's just a kind of, you know, it's not who they are findinding high effort friends when you are also high effort and being able to kind of maintain that through doing the thing first rather than expecting the thing first, I think is so important and it's been a real concentration of mine over the past few years to like I don't want to say be a village in order to get a village because that sounds like it's like entirely selfish and just like buying it. But like as in genuinely like be the friend that I always wanted to have because I think for a very long time, I was like, God, why does everyone else have these massive friend groups that they just came from school with and they, you know so close and they get on so well and they do all these things together and like These friendships didn't start uil my mid twenties. Yeah. And I think that's really important for people to realize that if you haven't found your village, that doesn't mean your villagers is not going to come. They're going to be there By the way, thank you for sharing the g because I saw your post when you spoke about your miscarriage. And it's very brave about it, especially so openly. whyy did you decide that you wanted to talk about it It's probably one of those selfish things where it It shook me so much I Baby Kite couldn't believe that it was such a taboo subject elsewhere. when it is such a mass disruption in your life And so many, I mean, I think I don't know the stats off the top of my head. I think it's like one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage It's a huge s And I mean, before November of last year, I think it was. There wasn't even to trree miscarriage leave. like unless you lost a baby after twenty four weeks which is considered essentially, you've gone into labor past that point. likeike it's not even considered a so much a miscarriage is a still birth past that point point you get two weeks as in statutory and prior to that, you don't technically get any. It's kind of up to your employer to truly understand and all of that addd into that the complication around even telling your employer you were thinking about having a baby in the first place and all of these different things is it means that so many women are going through this amount of pain. and obviously the dads as well but kind of going through this amount of pain. And on top of that, because it's so taboo Like when something's taboo, it carries shame So what like Why? likeike why is there all the shame around the fact that You had a pregnancy and it didn't work out It should be better understood in order to be able to better supported And you just ared it so beautiful. you said your miscarriage was like invisible grief Be You're still showing up, you're still functioning, you're still doing all the things that you know, but no one knows that you were pregnant and it's just you have to continue. Yeah, and I didn't talk about it until over a month later as well, likeike I, you know, for a while, people didn't know. like was it wasn't an open thing that I went back and kind of told everyone about. I tried to get out of my grief before I actually felt like I could even speak about it but it also just like I don't know, I think You know, even since that point We've made changes, for example, at Tara to introduce a miscarriage policy, like to introduce the fact that you can prolonged leave obbviously, including prior to twenty four weeks, but after twenty four weeks if you have a If you lose your pregnancy at Talla, you can take a form maternity leave Wow. And same with full paternity leave. Because that's amazing It's entirely unfair that you wouldn't get your baby and then also you're expected to Well you didn't have that. So here we go. Guess you're back to work. Leading from the front like that is so important. That's why it's so important to look to female fans to see what they're doing. so then you can incorporate it and borrow that and use it within your own businesses. Well thank you. I think that's really important to say because obviously we also know that female founders statistically receive less than two percent of venture capital funding Mad It's just but also like is so I think that people often think of that as a specifically entrepreneur specific problem. It feels like, you know, when you talk about, okay, well there are less women in this field or there are less women in this When we look at the amount entrepreneurship affects the whole rest of the world, like the tech you are using, the products you are using, the science that's being done, the studies that are being done, all of this comes from The large majority comes from privately owned companies So if that's the case, or privately or obviously the IPO as well. have been founded in some what way? That means it's all built in the vision of a male world because founders build things to solve their own problems. We also know women hire more women. They put more women into positions of power. like we God forbid, we promote women just before their maternity leave if that is the right thing for the company. Like same with, you know hiring like as in people are terrified of putting women in positions of power within companies when they are at child bearing age, which is most of their working life and They then know there aren't policies around like a number of these different things in order to actually facilitate women being able to work in the way we expect them to. We expect women to be mothers as if they don't have a job and work as if they're not mothers and all of these different things. And it kind of All of it creates this massively uneven world where I don't think we can even start to talk about gender equality or gender equity when actually it is so far skewed from the reality because if ninety eight percent of the funding is going into companies where 's not being reflected, then think about even if you don't care about entrepreneurship. you don't care about the products, you don't care about the data you don't care about you're using everyday all of these things, even if you don't even think about that lookook at the you know, the fact that like how few women are in those positions of power, how much they're actually getting paid, whether they're getting promoted, all of these different things. L I am so proud of working within companies where I can look at the leadership team the large majority of women with children. And that is means that we are able to not only cater for our customer better and truly understand the life that they're living, but also we're able to build something where, yeah, we have to understand what flexibility we need then in certain environments and How we actually build a company that facilitates those things rather than just assuming that every single woman who goes on maternity leave is never going to come back to work, not through their own choice but because your workplace doesn't have things to support it. Like it just it doesn't It doesn't make any sense. Let's fucking go, Grace. Let's fucking go. I can hear everyone in turn me clapping. like you're part of the two percent the, because your businesses have been funded by venture capapital. R Do does that make you proud? It makes me proud, but I think I'm so kind of disappointed by the statistic consistently. and by the way, I've been toooting this horn for however many years too, I first raised funding Five years ago. st's changed? No alsoso before you think it doesn't affect me otherwise. this is literally coming from your national insurance money because it's coming from the British B business Bank. So There should be disclosure around what's being invested in.ike this ninety eight percent discrepancy wouldn't happen in any other industry What was your experience like as a female founder Go into those meetings, asking for money, trying to raise capital for a business, because you've mentioned that They almost didn't believe that you were the CEO, you were the founder. They thought you, o, you're just going to be the face of the company Yeah, it's always been a mixed bag you know, I've We've been very fortunate to be in the position each time we've raised money to be able to be quite selective about who we've ended up going with because we don't want to compromise the key values of the company or who we are or like whatever it might be and we generally go for folios have already invested in lots of other female founder teams as well. So because also particularly if you're doing it to get your stats up, which I do think people like the stats should be up. so we got to do that somehow. but And then we get into the room And you don't believe I can genuinely run this company or whatever it might be to happen. And that's also going to be difficult. No, because we've chosen well with our investors. But like that would I've seen that happening all over the place particularly You know, I was shit scared to tell other investors that I was pregnant. E that like that's not a reflection on them. That's just because I'mflection society That's society. I know the industry, I know society, I know the expectation. I wrote in my email telling them about it essentially like Obviously I still want to work here. Whereas, the amount of times I've heard from investors, Ohh, by the way, my wife's having a baby next week. And you go, Okay, well, thank you for letting me know. I'm glad that disrupted your life so much and obviously like a big equal part or like a bigg part of improving a lot of these things is things like shed Matt and Pat Leave and like all of these different things. So of course it should be, you know that I'm not saying that that's necessarily like their fault either. But yeah, I think that I've had I've had so many different responses because I've raised Three different rounds differentnt types of investors for tech and for consumer Yeah. So I've kind of seen the whole no not the whole space. I've seen a big chunk of the space. There's a lot of I wonder what it would be like. wereere I not? ike when I've raised for Tallar, I've always wondered if I wasn't raising for a product that They would assume they didn't understand because it's so because it's for women. Yeah Would I even be allowed in this room? Like genuinely because the assumption is that women makeake things for women, men make things for everyone. If someone's liting right now, a female fnder or someone who is starting a business, what advice would you give that person? What would you give them if they're going to look for funding What should they do? Where should they go? How should they start? Okay Big question kindind of totally depends, sorry, not very helpful. but there are many different types of funding and venture capital funding is not right for everyone. I think I would get the first thing I would always recommend is getting really, really clear on why you need investment What for it will ideally do for the company If you can't wrote those three things up, you're not ready to raise. Correct And I think once you've written those three things down, I think that you can then become quite clear on, okay, what does this investment need to look like Would it ideally be one high net worth individual who can Give us a little bit of advice sometimes, but they're really just writing a check and we're then growing the company and we'll see where we are in a few years. Or do you want to be on essentially like a jet pack growth situation which can be very exciting, also comes with just as much chaos, as you'd imagine from being in jet pack growth and also a huge amount of paperwork like all of these different things and pressure all of these different things. So I think it's like really about working that out. And then I would say it's about really refining your pitch deck and actually you'll ask overall and like who you are, you would not believe the amount of pitch decks I receive because I do personal investing as well. that I cannot tell from the first five sides of your deck What you are Like all who you are, what you're doing and what this money is even doing. Like I should not be having to dig through this. I should not be having to essentially try and summarize elsewhere, it should be very, very clear. It be there sim that straight away. And so I think that that is Another thing and often the best way to do that is in the form of a pitchck. It's great advice Here's a tip for you. There's a podcast out there with fans waiting to be your next customer Tune in every week, they trust the host, and that host wants to talk about brands like yours in their own words to their audience The Problem is you just haven't been introduced yet We're ACast, where that introduction happens as the world's largest podcast marketplace. We let you browse shows, see who's listening, and book host reed sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform Transparent pricing, real time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting acast d. com slash advertise I want to go back to that moment. like when you're talking about you're at university, you're posting You know, you're post on social media and it Most people wouldn't be doing it because it's embarrass And it was you were being judged, but you went against that. I know that full well ' I did Maid in Chelsea. I D don't know if you Very reishful. Oh yeah But I when I when I got asked to m Chelsea, it was like everyone was saying This is lame. Don't do it. Why are you doing that? It was just it was just not cool in any way, but I saw it as an avenue to achieve something else sort of cheat code my way in. Yeah, right. And I didn't care what other people thought weir I didn't really care. And with you, it feels like the same you care a lot of what people think, but you also don't care what people think because you went and started posting stuff on social media. I think I did care. I think I really did care. I think I, you know, still wanted to belong and to make friends and for people to not think I was a massive loser I think simultaneously, I didn't care enough for it to stop me doing thing that was clearly getting me things that I wasn't getting from elsewhere So For example, you know, I started this account when I was eighteen. I sold my first products within the first six months. But break that down for me. The account was called The account was but I didn't post my face and it didn't have my name so that was just maybe a visualization of how embarrassed I was. I think it was called Kla Gbug because I was doing the Kayla E CNS workkout plans. Okay. And so I kind of posted that, as I said, didn't post my face, didn't post my name, was just kind of posting of my journey of trying to be trying to stick to the gym as someone who really was very bad at doing so So I just always like fall off to u I guess I would just tryed to six something for a few weeks and then I wouldn't be able to do all of that. So I started it as a kind of accountability page. Then within my first six months I was like posting I started working at IBM, which was where I worked for a year after school just in their room O of school leavers slash placement year programm And so I'd started working there I was Essentially, we're like working very long days there trying to prove that the corporate life was for me which obviously went really well. But I was also then posting on Instagram in a way that started to grow. So I think I started to get a few thousand followers and that was really, really exciting And I Eciting because it was feeding that niggle, that chip as well asast. everything. It was feeding everything was? Yeah yeah just, you know, numbers. Yeah This is great. Exactly. I don't even know that. why? I don't know why it's great, but I know that it's great. It was making you feel good. It was making me feel good, definitely. And so I was like posting all of these recipes of like like I have a massive sweet tooth, so like healthier versions of brownies or bana breads or like whatever it might And I was posting these all the time, but because I was working the kind of classic corporate hours, I was every weekend, I was having to spend like hours and hours a day basically making all these recipes and photographing them in because in the winter, which is obviously most of the year in the UK, there was no daylight so and it was very important at that time to have a very Gorgeous Instagram. I even bought myself like a little food light boox. Wow to be able to, you know, take good photos. What know is this twenty this is way ahe of its time. You were ahead of your time already. little I was posting pictures of my foot. like I was really in a niche for. You were in that beginning stage. Yeah, very, very early on. But so because I was spending so much time every weekend making these recipes and churning them out, I kind of thought, well, what if I could sell them This is takaking me a huge amount of time. And was taking up all my weekends and I was working at IBM in the week and I was just like, this is are so much work. And so I basically made two different ebooks called Eat My Instagram. Almost definitely not allowed trademark wise. But there was a sweet one and there was a savory one And essentially they were five pounds each or you could pay eight pounds for two. So I did that. And then I remember over the next year I made a few hundred quid of that because I Set up a Shopify I got their digital download thing. so essentially, anyone who purchased it just got emailed them directly. and I was like, Oh my Godd, this is the greatest thing ever. I don't even need to manually email Everyone who's purchased And so set that up and then started like that year where I started really seeing differences was like when I'd put on like a twenty percent off flash sale or when I'd say This is only available for the next twenty four hours. you were learning. you were just learning the whole time. Just learning by actually doing it and seeing what other people would do. to learn. Yeah. And so I did that for the next year. And so I think by the point of even going to university, which was in October that following year Having made a few hundred extra quid, I was like solid amount of money. Like I was earning eighteen K a year because I was I was an intern at IBM and it was a paid internship in London and it was great. I felt like the richest person in the world. Yeah hundred. And I to un Like a month's extra salary probably from the whole year on top of that I just I felt like I was printing money. I felt like it was amazing. So I think that by the time I got to the question of like, is this too embarrassing to continue? I was kind of like, well Essentially I am printing money when I do this because I am There's no margin cost. there's no cost for each extra product you're producing. So I could sell to you and every single other person in this room and it costs me the same amount, but I get obviously you get multiples on the proffer And so I was just kind of like at that point, I was like, well, I'm not really going to give up my money. So I guess all of you are just going to have to think I'm a loser. That's just like how it's going to work. And so I think that by that point I'd kind of The trade off just didn't add up. for it to be too embarrassing to not continue. I wouldn't give myself the credit of being like, oh, I just don't care what other people think. I absolutely did. And I continued to care for what other people think for a very long time and still do. But you were earning too much money to stop to stop what you were doing because you because you didn't care enough what other people thought to stop doing that. think I think realistically, yeah, was that was my thought process being totally transparent. I think it was kind of like, well, yeah, you can think I'm weird doing this, but at the same time, I got five hundred extra pounds in the past six months And is that what you would say to people? No Absolutely not. you wouldn you' really making me out to be a lot stronger than I am. No, that's what we're going on inside my internal. Yeah,' twenty four hours a day. Exactly, I'm having the invisible argument in my head. That's amazing What you're achieving and what you're doing what you're building is phenomenal Like like truly is in that space. and I'm incredibly inspired by you. and I'm not just saying that. And you keep turning up in a relentless way. And I love that, right? I'm relentless. And sometimes when you have relentless people, other people are looking going That's they're doing it again. Like don't sit down. Like relax does lead to banout, And that does lead to those moments which are tricky. you know How do you balance that And when burnout hits, how do you get ped and what does it feel like I think I spent a good few years like on the path to like full burnout, like full cannot get out of bed likeike once locked myself in a room for a day without my phone and just did a jigsaw for the entire day. because I was like, that is how on zero, my brain is at the moment That is real fully burnt out. And I've had other times where it's kind of been similar and I've literally just been like, I while I've had two other times Wh where I've literally woken up and been like I physically, I physically can't do this U and The last time that happened was January last year So I and I think that that really started from When in like twenty twenty one I restructured the whole of Tala and had like a huge legal battle to get out of the licensing agreement we were previously in, restructured the entire business. Talla nearly went bankrupt. There was about Proies three months where every single week I was wondering if we'd make payroll and just like chilling things to be able to like, you know, get that happen all at that point. I think at that point that was where things, like things never really got out of that burnout zone from then. So I think from I had then five years after that point or like four years after that point where I was kind of like teetering on the edge of burnout, but at the same time, believed that in order to do my job I needed to keep operating to the same capacity and actually' I I used to cry pretty regularly about the fact that I thought I would never be able to start my own family or take maternity leave to any extent because I would not be able to spend a single day out of the businesses Um, like I just like I literally have notes in my phone of being like I don't know like I'm never going to be able to do that. I'm never going to be able to have babies because I'm never going to be able to even spend a week out of the business. Like I can't even be ill. And so I think that was a real wake up call for me when In the space of two months, I had like two moments where I physically was like, I'm on zero. L I'm worried that I'm like physically ill. That's how drained I am, like I feel like I, you know, and I'd actually given myself adrenal fatigue or adrenal dysfunction, I think it was, I can't remember. But essentially where my ct soul had actually just like stopped working in the way that it should work because it was so it had been driving such a road for so long And so I think that like since that point, that was a real wake up call to kind of be like, okay, well If this was all engineered to build you the life you want, this is clearly not the life you want Like, yes, it might be some of the things you want down on paper But it's clearly not the life you want, because if you can't think about starting a family, if you can't think about taking a wedding offline, if you can't like as in taking the day or a few days around that, if you can't think at like all of these different things, then that is not the life you actually want. That's the life that you thought you wanted. And so since that point in the last year and nearly a half now, I have tri to change every single thing about how I work with the businesses to be able to give them the maximum. adocacy in kind of I don't wantan to say help because they're very capable of everyone's very capable of doing their own jobs, but like the founder vision, what you need from a founder and what you need from the operator job I is providing whilst also ing a away to a helpful extent to be able to maintain everyone's autonomy to be able to not be micromanaging. Like I was micromanaging for years because I was just trying to essentially make sure that I know, I didn't want to do things wrong. I didn't want to have a massive cancellation for the business on socials. I didn't want a single social post to go out without me seeing it or you know an event or a product or like whatever. across absolutely everything, which is also not helpful to everyone within the business because no one could do their job without having you over their shoulder So I essentially A piece advice someone had given me about six months before which I completely ignored was One of the best things you can do in this scenario is remove all of your approvals and see what breaks and pick them up. And I said, well, I don't have the luxury of doing that becausecause if something breaks, it's going to break on a big enough scale I'm going to need to take responsibility for it and get the shit for it as I should as the founder and the owner and the public face and all of this. And I can't deal with that mentally right now because I'm so on the edge of burnout all the time. Like I'm so on the edge. And so I felt like I was like trapped in this need to see absolutely everything and also being right for the business, also not being right for me, but if I didn't see absolutely everything, then how could I make sure that things weren't going to explode? U But that's what I ended up doing in the end. I ended up removing all of my approvals and picking back up the things that were genuinely helpful to the business and the people within the businesses. And I've actually started to be able to live my life. like even at that point I wasn't even I wasn't even ovulating. L My whole body had gone into like shutd down. Like I wouldn't have been able to I tried to change absolutely everything because I was just at the point where I was like my body is shutting down from the amount I'm working and the amount of stress I'm under. And this is clearly not conducive, as I said, to the type of life I want to live. And then you're living because' your podcast working out hardly working, right? whichich is just amazing. Go and listen to it honestly, we're going to leave a link in the show description, Go and check it out. It's fantastic, right This of a mantra is how we should really be living life, right? And you sort of weren't living true to that one hundred percent. I think I thought that the As long as you do the work side of things, like Everything else falls into place because you are able to get yourself into situations where I don't know, at least you can take an overber home or like whatever it might be. And actually just when you when I built this I'd built this massive cage around me and my body was literally rebelling and I was miserable. And I couldn't even do a sit like I couldn't come and do something like this for example, in the middle of the day ever because I was like, well, that's not gonna work. And also if did do anything like I would go and speak at a conference and then work till three A just getting through specific approvals that I never needed to be on every single day. like there was Every single Friday, I'd keep meeting free and I'd sit down at my desk. att like seven AM and I would not stand up until like ten PM. I wouldn't have even made d end and that it just felt like this I was on this massive path to burnout slash already there. but over the past year and a half, I've made significant changes and now I'm in a very different place Your husband He has a lot of fans online Yeah. Wait a second. What's he been doing? You post and apparently everyone's like, who is this hot stuff? You guys met on a dating app. Yeah. The moment that you guys started messaging, right? and you started messaging And the first time you met, you flew to New York, wasn't it? No, that was not bad. that on the t. It would explain what happened. How did you you guys have control iss? Yes Yeah. got flying to New York? No, we met in in July years ago and went on a First date then And then he was living in New York at the time. So he was in London for work. And he was in London approximately once a month of work. So we'd finally found a date kind of in the July, we'd matched a few months earlier, but just like our dates where he was in London and all of that kind of hadn't worked And then yeah, went on a really nice date. I thought What a nice day then went away kind of just you didn't think anything else you weren't just like No. I thought he was lovely. Like I kind of I actually said it in my vows. The literal text I sent My friend after that was saying, Yeahah, he's really hot. I love that he lives in New York so I can'tall in love with him, which is kind of hilarious, given his baby is now growing all up in here. So yeah And he then came back to London about a month and a half later went on another date, then he was here for about ten days. so we went on kind of a few dates. and by the end of that, I was like be got U I was really not looking for a relationship at the time, which I think actually had a big impact on me asking for enough in that relationship. I think traditionally in the like in the past, I definitely bent over backwards for people who wouldn't bnd over backwards for me.ike I think that that was I'm a very high effort person. and so I would happily do that and that was my love language and all of that. And I think that because I wasn't necessarily in the place where I was like wanting a relationship. Yeah. I wasn't trying to be the person they liked.ike that wasn't my MO in like going into a date It wasn't exxactly. I was just being me. and He showed from the beginning that he was also a high effort person and was very happy to show that he was into it and show that he was, you know, enjoyed our dates and all of this with absolutely zero gameplay which I ye. I'm in.. But like for example, you know, one of our when he was in London the second time kind of a week in and we'd been on like three dates within that week so we'd had a We'd had like such a lovely time And I was then moving house. and I was moving into a flat and I was u I had to go to work that morning And I remember I was on a date the night before with him, and my dogs sitter texted to basically say they'd cancellled and said, and I was like, o shit. I was like, I've got the movers coming in the morning. I've also got to go to a meeting in the morning. so I'm leaving movers in the house for me to go to a meeting on Bran to come back then and then move into the flat. and I wanted the dogs out so that they're not running in and out the door, all of this or the dogs, sorry, there was anyone at the time And He just said he was just like He was like, oh, I'm not wking tomor. was like, I'll just,'ll have. I'll have him And I was like, oh, you really don't need to do that. And He was, it's fine. He was like, I'll just I'll come around to yours in morning, I'll pick him up. and all them I'll just take him about the frunch And so he literally came around and took my dog for brunch while the movers were in the house. I then come back. You whisp but you were like Yeah. And so I came back Acts of service. big on acts of service. And he is big on acts of service. And we got in like got in the moving van, went to the flat. was like he was like, I'll just help you move stuff, all of this. He helped me like set up all my furniture he helped me like there were the there was like a problem with the moving bay, so people were having to like go up loads of stairs, like all of this. There was a number of different things going on. So he was doing like all the runs back and forth, basically doing the removal for everyone. And then, you know, at one point he went down to go get more stuff from the moving bay and there was a there was like a small shop, like a kind of express shop and he did like a full weekly shop for, you know, just like the essentials just like, you know, you're washing up liquid, youre all of that that I'm not going to have just having moved in like your toilet roll, you're just very domesticated stuff. And so he came back and I was like, I was like, what's that? And he'd also bought like there was a little dog toy, He brought my dog a little toy. And he was just like, he was like, oh, I just thought you'd need the essentials, just saves you doing it later J like kind of not even like this was a big thing. And I was like, that's what I would do for my friends. As in like that is the approach I have. like I like to make people's life easier and show them love by doing that. I was like How isn't that lovely?. how attractive is that? Yeah. It is so attractive. And I think this is what men don't realize. Other men are trying to tell other men what is attractive to women, right? But actually if you listen to women, this is what is attractive. Well, that required a lot of vulnerability too. say he does that and then I'm like, anyway, I'm not actually that into, but like thanks so much for the services today. It's vulnerable, but like we you have in order to get You have Cnection, you have to have vulnerability on the. And so I think it was just like those things at the beginning. And I remember at the end of that day, I was like, o God, my friends are coming around for dinner at the new flat. And I was kind of like, I kind of need to kick him out. But he's obviously helped me move all day, but I was like, I don't really want you at my girls dner. So I just said to him, I was like, So tonight some friends coming aroundound and he was like, was like, don't worry about it, I'm going for dner with my m momum. And like Perfect, done. With your mum as well. Oh wonderful love. And then just woke up the next morning to these gorgeous flowers outside my apartment. and I just thought, well, that's me done. When you find a relationship where that happens makes you realise that in life that you really should not settle. A hundred percent. And I think that was the real difference is I kind of And I think people often say this and it's so infuriating to hear is the kind of like when you'll know, you'll know and it will come when you're at least expecting it. and like it will make you realize what shit you've been putting up with in the past Guinely, that was really my experience and also let my barriers down in a way that he was leading with that kind of vulnerability and just being like, well, this is how I lik to act in a relationship So I'm gonna to act that way. If you reject me based on that or anything else, then that's fine because I'm still true to myself. Whereas like I definitely particularly from past relationships, had then got to point where I was like, well, I'm not gonna to do any of this and tonally on, this, this and this. And actually because he was like that, I was then like, okay, perfect, well, I can meet you in exactly how I like to be in relationships, which is actually very well matched because we're both very high effort people. Wow. And so I think that that actually he gets credit for it working at the beginning because actually I think that you're going into Yeah you're going into the relationship as hey, this is authentically me. Yeah and you're going, by the way this is me, here I am. And if you think it's too much, that's fine. Yeah becausecause this is what I want to be in my ideal relationship because I think I'd had a thing before where I'd essentially thought Clearly My effort level doesn't match the type of people I like to go for and therefore I should bring that down, which is fair in certain scenarios. but I think in reality, what I needed to do was bring the effort level up of the people I was with because then how amazing if two of you are like high effort people both trying to make each other's Tay Great or life, greatreat. Like that is so ideal because it also means I can be like I do some stupidly over the top stuff sometimes. L I really like to do the types of things that will But can that happen and all of that? And I think in every past relationship, I just felt like it was too much. And wow. That's such a great example because what you want to do is you want to better each other's lives. So if you're constantly pushing each other's boundaries in like a positive way, that's good you're kind of moving along life in the best way. Yeah well, they always, I think They the psychologists always say that like the The people with the best relationships are the people we' They're both trying to be the sixty percent, or you know, like when it's like sometimes it's fifty, sometimes it's sixty forty, sometimes it's ninet to ten. Like if you're both trying to be the sixty percent, then it mitigates for times where actually one of you needs to be ten percent because you're going through something or correct, you're having certain stress or like whatever it might be. And then you never resent each other Be when someone else's battery life is at ten percent, you're like, it's okay. Yeah becausecause I know that you know what you do I know what you do on the other side of it And so therefore, you're okay with that. Yeah. And that is he when he proposed to you, it was I think for some of the world's greatest pro like I was s I seeing that and I was like, my guys. reallyally outsing everyone here He organized a fake trip for you. Yeah. Explain what happened. Well, essentially, he wanted to propose somewhere that would be special and exciting and kind of ideally wanted to do it abroad because I think he knew that I wanted it where we were away somewhere and we could just be in a bubble and all of this But at the same time, he wanted to make sure it's something that he'd fully organized and kind of fully You know just like everything had been managed by him. wanted an ideice. He wanted to feel that this was a moment that he because the proposal, you if you're a guy I'm proposing in my experience, you want to this is my moment. Yeah. This is it Yeah. like this is I'm the one showing all of this. Yeah, he's a big planner. He believe it or not which is quite off brand for me. He is the one who of like when I go to the airport with him, I don't know what apppple we're at. Get out of here. You relinquish control. Oh complete completely control. Oh ye. yeah. I could be blindfolded. L amazing. That's why a married man But essentially he kind of wanted to make it like end to end something that he felt like was my perfect proposal but was also he also kind of was well aware of the fact that I'm a little bit, how do I say Um Nothing gets past me. Yeah. Yeah. Your hard person was surprised. Exactly. And so I think he really wanted to make sure it was a surprise because I am never surprised. And so he'd reached out to my agent a few months before and essentially said question I need your help essentially being able to make this convincing enough So They'd had conversations about it. They'd chosen a brand that we'd worked with before, but not so much that I had like a super close relationship and I would, know maybe message them all of this got like the invitations done, sent a message, but like before the even invite was confirmed, there was like a one month before lead of like, by the way, just a check. If this comes through, would this be something you'd be interested in, which is quite regular in the the little like oh just had a meeting with Armani, just wanted to double check if this is something I Mary as well. He went for it Lly. And so Yeah, so that came through and so I was like, yeep, no would'd love to do that. And then the actual invite came through and everything was done so perfectly to the point that I actually went kind of insane in the lead up because I had this I just had these spidey senses essentially telling me this was going to be the proposal through no fault of his own, the poor man. I just woken up one morning at like five AM and be like It's on that trip. Like he's gonna roose on that trip. And I don't know what I'd picked up on because it was so it was so well thought out And then I was like checking back on all the details and everything was so perfectly done that I was like, there's no way that this is not the trip because we've got all of the different assets, we've got the like contract come through. We've got like all of just like all of it was so watertight Anyway then the real kind of final thing that made me think, no, this is definitely a brand trip. was the night before we were leaving, I was trying on all these different outfits because there was this like big gala dinner and I essentially said You know I've got nothing to wear. And like I don't like anything and all of this. and he was literally he was like, You never like this about random events. It was it was just like it was like Who hides? It's just a brandona. You can go, You don't even need to take pictures if you don't like it. Like you don't look me dead in the eyes. Ghe. cow. And he literally was just like, there's just, you know, you're acting on the m. You act like this. And so I was like, yeah, no, fine. And I was like, okay, I was definite not a proposal, he just lied to my very face. A you disappointed. Yeah, exactly. Did you feel the slight thing you would like? Yeah Oh well, that's the one of adrenaline for nothing. I' just got nails And then flew out, he'd done everything perfectly. There was a full, there was Amani product everywhere in the room. There were these like it had been it had been done like perfectly. The We'd arrived at the hotel, they'd had briefing calls. So like they arrived. they go, are you here for the Armani event? All of this. like they clearly knew who we were, like what we looked like. They putat us down in the like when we were checking in and they go like, yeep, so the event is down there later. All of this. And so I was like, oh, watertight He'd flown out an Armanni makeup artist to do my makeup in the room. And then so I was obviously stalking her stories because I was like, well what's she posting? On her stories, there's a video of the hotel going here with Armani for their event everyone exiting on this because I'm then like, o, well come on, like this is too much. And so I'm then Getting ready And I say to him, I'm like, oh, it doesn't say because the itineraries in the room are beautiful. gorgeous paper, might obviously branded And it says all of the different things, but it didn't say the location for the drinks that we were going to And I said, can you phone down and ask where the drinks are because it's not on the thing? And he goes, yeah, no worries. He goes into the bathroom, uses that silly little bathroom phone, who us the phone when they're taking shit. Anyway, he literally is like on the phone and he's like, Hi, can just tell me we're here for the Armani event? Could you just tell me where the drinks are? H this whole fake phone conversation. Obviously he knows where we're going And then we take the lift down and I'm like rubbing up against him because I'm trying to work out if there's a ring in this pocket Still still at this point. I'm Y O sheD is really coming up literally I'm like shibying against him. And then we yeah, then we get down there and then he We're like down in front of the hotel, this beautiful setup in the background. and then he's like, Oh, would you like a few photos here and takes a few photos? And then he hands me back the phone. I'm like, well, that's not usually the amount of photos you'd give me. Usually I' give at least sixty more. I'm like, this is far too few. And then he like comes and stands by me and there was a hat on the floor, which was obviously place that the photographer had put like this is where you should stand because the photographer was hidden in the bushes And so I was like standing there and I kind of like gave him back my phone to be like, moreore please. He's like, that's three photos. like you think I'm going to get my photo from that? Absolutely not and handed it back to him. And then he just literally started his proposal speech with them Mad. It's like I was like really like to marry you. And then yeah proed. And it was so watertight. everything was so good and they'd you'd like talk to the hotel, they'd stopped anyone else walking outside in that moment. So it's literally like completely clear in the background J justust like every single detail it's very much who he is. One thing I did see which is, can I which I think is a great thing to talk about, which is prenus. Oh yeah. It seems like a taboo turn that we don't talk about. in America, veryy open about it. Yeah. And I saw you speak about it very openly, which I thought was a great thing to chat about. Where are you at with that? What do you think about prens? Well, I're the same place, thankully. Nothing's being used. Esentially, I just We actually did an in depth podcast on it with Vivian too, who's like your rich BFF onl. She's amazing. amaz. We love. And one thing she said that's really stuck with me is like, you're signing a contract anyway, you might as well. like when in any other scenario do you just accept the contract and just go like, okay, well this is the one we're signing, like, okay, maybe a small little disclaimer to get a facial, but like other than that, like not your entire life and just all of this stuff. You might as well design your own contract. It doesn't need to, I think people think of prenuaps and they're like, o, well, it's going to be like this and it's going to be like this. And actually we're two people who've got to very exciting points in our careers, who've Eered a marriage each with assets Why don't we have a conversation when we're getting on really well as to what this would look like if we would no longer be together and you're signing that contract anyway. So I think it's just it's a A good preup should protect both of you. We'll say they're not well upheld in the UK. and you have to refresh them as like when any big change happens. so any asset change, a baby a house change, all of these different things and still they likely don't stand like fully stand up