Using Google Docs for Collaboration

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This special offer is available for happier listeners and only for a limited time. Order it today with free shipping and try it out for thirty days. You can return it for free if you don't like it with their sleep trial. Visit WWW dot sleep SLE . m e slash greeten and see why cold sleep is your ultimate ally in perform ance and recovery . Hello and welcome to Happyer, a podcast where we talk about ways to make our lives happier. This week we'll talk about how you can fight perfectionism by embracing imperfection and we will discuss a reminder about a simple action that can have enormous consequences for our health and happiness . I'm Gretchen Rubin. I'm a writer who studies happiness, good habits, and human nature. I'm in my little home office in New York City. And joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister Elizabeth Kraft and Elizabeth, I don't think either one of us is really a true perfectionist the way some people are. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer living in LA. And I don't know, Gretch, you come close, in many areas. In other area is definitely areas, not so much . But before we jump in, we got this interesting update from Winslow. Yes. All week I have been giving you gold stars because I really feel that your warning about the dangers of ladders may have headed off disaster. I am currently at home in Massachusetts, solo parenting my three kids while my husband drives to Alaska where we all spend our summers. I had wanted to do some home improvement projects while he was gone , several of which would have had me using one of our old rickety ladders. I would have been working alone in our backyard with my kids in the house and I shuddered to think of the impact and toll on them if something had happened to me while on that ladder. Just as you said in the episode, I never gave the ladder a second thought in terms of risk. The irony is that I am just getting back to home improvement projects because in October I was in a bad car accident. I was rear ended by a tractor trailer on the highway. My recovery has taken a long, long time and it's still not fully done. When the car accident happened, my husband was in California for work just after I regained consciousness as I was being wheeled into the ambulance , I was coordinating with him to find neighbors and grandparents to pick up our kids, make dinner, and take care of them until my husband could fly back since I would be in the hospital. It was awful to think of our kids waiting with neighbors until a family member could be with them. They were scared that I was hurt and they didn't have their dad to comfort them. Given the recency of this car accident experience, you would think that I would have been more ca utious to avoid putting my kids in a similar situation, but I just didn't think of ladders as much of a safety concern. Because of your episode, now I do. I'm changing my plans and I'm going to wait to do ladder tasks until I can do it safely and not jeopardize my own health and the emotional well being of my kids, thank you so much for sharing your warning. Well, I love hearing this from Winslow because it's exactly what we wanted to accomplish, which is this is just a little part of ordinary life. You don't realize that it's actually a menace . Yeah , because it's so familiar. Yes, I'm even being very careful on step ladder, scrutch. Yeah . In a lot of situations, a little bit of caution and a little bit of waryness can make us dramatically safer. It's just this idea that if we've done something a lot of times, it just doesn't, you know, we're standing in the middle of our own kitchen. We don't think, oh, I'm actually leaning really, really far out of my center of gravity. If I would topple over, this could really be bad. You just don't think of it. Yes. So thank you Winslow for that report. This week, our Tri This At Home Suggestion is to fight perfectionism by embracing imperfection. So Gretch, tell us why we should do this and what it means. Well, so perfectionism is something that I hear about all the time as a happiness stumbling bl ock. I think for some people, it's something that they struggle with, as we were saying, maybe in one or two areas of their lives, but for some people, it's really a pervasive problem. And it's something that people often bring up to me is something that they're struggling with. One thing that I've realized in one of my secrets of adulthood is that perfectionism is not driven by high standards but by anxiety. And this is a really helpful thing to know because if you're talking to someone who is saying like, ooh, I'm dealing with some perfectionism struggles here , you might say like, well, lower your standards, ease up on yourself, but that doesn't really help. That's not reassuring to the person who's battling with perfection ism because it's not about lowering their standards. A lot of times they'll say, Well, I don't want to lower my standards. Well , the fact is it's really about anxiety. It's about feeling like uneasy, worried insecure. It's the feelings of anxiety. So you have to think the anxiety and why that anxiety is standing in the way of you moving towards your aim . And often people are so worried about being perfect that they don't do anything at all. Yes. And so it's the desire to be one hundred percent instead of giving getting you to eighty percent, it gets you to zero percent. Yes. I think that's a very common issue people have. I did this collaboration with Clutterbug. That's the name for Cass Arsen, a woman who writes a lot about outer order and in her column. So of course she and I had a million things to talk about . And Cass was telling me about how when she 's dealing with people trying to clear clutter because that's what she does all day long, is that this often comes up as perfectionism. And she said to me, you know, sometimes I walk into somebody's apartment and they've got a huge heap of fresh, clean laundry on their dining room table and I'm thinking to myself, you don't come off as a perfectionist. You know, like, in what sense are you perfectionist? It doesn't look that way. But then she realized it's really because, oh, if I don't have everything perfectly folded exactly the right way, neatly, in a drawer, if I don't have my closet color coded, if I haven't gone through and weeded through in a long time , if I don't have times to do things properly, I would rather just not do it at all . But my anxiety about doing it properly and also the time and effort that's included in that means that nothing gets done at all. And so a way if you're stuck in that mode, instead of one hundred percent, I have zero percent. A way to get yourself to eighty , maybe is to embrace the imperfection. So how do we actively embrace imperfection? Well, one of the funny examples like Cascade with a person with the French laundry is she would say, Okay, you just have to stop that stuff into a drawer. She'll make them do it. Like, I want you to just take those t shirts and just stick them in a drawer and shut the drawer. And she said the people get very panicky because they're like that's just so wrong. But then they realize actually , if you just stuff a bunch of t shirts into a drawer, if you just dump your underwear into a drawer, if you just throw your jeans onto a shelf, it's fine. And that sometimes that unlocks them for realizing like, I don't have to do it perfectly. I can just do enough . I see this with writing. So I used to have this approach with writing, and I do know many writers who write this way and it's what comes naturally to them, which is they write every sentence perfectly. They would struggle very hard to make every sentence as good as it could possibly be, and they would move forward slowly, but very well. And by the time they got to the end , it was okay, this is basically done. Go back and do some editing, but they really tried to do it right the first time. But when I tried to do that , I found that I would procrast inate. I would get frustrated. I would get stuck. For instance I have a thing where I don't like to start a sentence with there is or there are . There are many reasons that a person might want to clear a clutter. I wouldn't write that sentence in a book or anywhere. Right. But says it's just what you're trying to express. And so now I think, okay, just write that sentence so I can move forward. And then I'll go back later and fix it so that I can just keep moving. Because what I found for me at least is that when I was trying to do it perfectly as I went , I would get stalled out, I would get frustrated because I couldn't figure out how to solve a problem and that's when I would do things like get up and start checking the alphabetization of my bookshelves , just as a procrastic clearing. And by saying, just write the bad sentence and then go back and fix it later . That prevented me from getting anxious and feeling frustrated and stalled out. How about you, Elizabeth? Is there a way this comes up for you? Well, I do think writing is an ultimate example of this because in TV writing we say, write the bad draft and that is exactly what you're saying. It's just get through something so then you're rewriting. Yes. But it is the anxiety of a blank page as we say. Yeah. Once you have something written, your anxiety just naturally dissipates because you're not starting from scratch . Right. It is hard to do to just keep going , but it makes a huge difference. So I think more and more, the more experienced I am in writing, the more I try to embrace imperfection. You'd think it would be the opposite. Yes. But actually, the more experienced you are, the more you embrace the imperfection. Right. I'm reminded of you and your hundred orange theories in a year, Elizabeth and something that you said to me, which was because I said, are you getting stressed out about the fact of actually reaching the one hundred . And you said, well, the thing is, even though I don't reach one hundred, I'm still going to get a lot closer to one hundred than if I weren't trying to get to one hundred. Yes. And I think that's a good example where maybe you don't achieve the total goal. And the question isn't that, okay, it's the total goal or I am a failure. I have to be perfect or my effort is worthless. It's the idea that I can aim toward a goal, I can sincerelyve stri to achieve one hundred percent of that goal , but that doesn't mean that partial accomplishment isn't also extraordinarily valuable because the fact is in terms of your health and happiness, whatever, eighty eight versus one hundred, seventy six versus one hundred. I mean, right , it's a fun thing to have an arbitrary goal , but it doesn't help us to get overly fixated on the perfect accomplishment of it. Yes. Well, and I keep thinking, you know, there's so many phrases to help people remember this because this is such a happiness stumbling walk. So here's some of my favorites. Done is better than perfect. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That's voltaire. Don't get it perfect, get it going. One of my favorites is anything worth doing is worth doing badly . If it's worth doing laundry and putting it away, it's worth doing that badly. It's worth working on my draft, even if I'm running a bad draft. So this is something that comes up all the time. Yes. I do think it's more of an issue for some people than others, don't you? Yes. There are people who are just wired to want everything to be perfect. Yeah, those people can be stressful to be around. They can cause anxiety in others because they sort of emanate this need for perfection and that is hard to be around. Yes. Although it can come in handy when you need a project and we can all benefit from their perfectionism. But I do think actively embracing imperfection, like you're saying could be very helpful rather than just as you said, lower the bar, no actively embrace imperfection because then you're doing something . So since you're doing it in a proactive way, it feels like part of the perfectionism to embrace imperfection. Well, and the problem with lowering the standards is that you get into an argument about whether it's right to lower your standards. And what I've found is that often people will say, but I don't want to lower my standards. It's part of my value is to have this high standard. I seek to have this standard. So then you just go round and round on well, is your standard the right standard or should there be a different standard ? Instead, as you say, if you're actively choosing to do something, it doesn't feel like you're abandoning a standard. It's just like, okay, I choose to imperfectly work toward that standard and accept that there's benefits to that even if I don't reach the standard that is really the standard that I have in mind. But let us know how you do try this at home and how fighting perfectionism by embracing imperfection works for you . How have you done this? What context does it come up for you? And I think alys et youh ra,ise a really interesting point, which is perfectionism has ripple effects on other people . Have you found a way to talk to somebody effectively who has perfectionist tendencies? Have you found those stressful yourself ? Are you inspired by that? Because I think sometimes people who are perfectionists inspire others to have higher standards. So like a lot of things, it's not all good or all bad. It's a question of how do we manage it so that we really have the happiest , healthiest, most productive life without being dragged down by the downsides of some of our qualities. So let us know on Instagram, threads, TikTok, Facebook, drop us an email at podcast remvingo com dot or as always you can go to happiercast dot com slash five nine one for everything related to this episode. Coming up, we've got a playlist happiness hack, but first a spring This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Summer always sounds relaxing in theory, but in reality it, can also feel like a lot, travel , schedule changes, trying to make the most of everything while also not getting overwhelmed by it all. You know, there can be real pressure to feel like you're having the perfect summer. And sometimes taking care of yourself means not saying yes to every plan or trying to do everything . It's figuring out what actually makes the season feel enjoyable instead of exhausting. Therapy can help with that. Understanding your needs, setting boundaries, and building routines that work for you. BetterHelp has over thirty thousand licensed therapists and they match you based on a questionnaire so you can focus on your goals. And if the fit isn't right, you can switch therapist anytime. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support in therapy. Sign up and get ten percent off at better help dot com slash Gretchen Rub in. That's better h lp . com slash greeten reubin. If you've ever stretched out a blowout for one more day, you know how tricky dry shampoo can be. Some leave a white cast , some feel gritty, and some just pile on fragrance. That's why I've been impressed with K eighteen Airwash Dry shampoo. It's the first biotech powered dry shampoo and it instantly helps eliminate odor while reducing oil and sweat. What stood out to me is how clean my hair felt afterward. No heavy buildup, no starchy texture. And it's so easy to work into your routine, especially after a workout or on those days when washing your hair just isn't happening. K eighteen uses patented odor bind technology to trap and eliminate odor causing molecules while translucent mineral micro beads absorb oil without leaving residue behind . Feel fresh instantly. Shop at Sephora or get ten percent off your first purchase at k eighteen hair. com with code Happ.y That's Codehappier at K eighteenhare. com . Elizabeth, you know, I'm always cold. I am absolutely a blanket person and I immediately understood the obsession when I tried Lola blankets , the first thing I noticed was how unbelievably soft it is. It honestly feels different from every other blanket I own. I have one on the sofa right now and it's become part of my nightly routine. I lie there, we turn on the TV to whatever show we're watching, and I pull the Lola blanket over me. It somehow makes the whole room feel more pulled together. There is a reason Lola has over twenty thousand five star reviews for a limited time, our listeners can get forty percent off select Lola Blankets products with code happier at checkout. Just head to lola blankets. com and use code happier to get forty percent off your order After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. Wrap yourself in luxury with lola blankets . Again, that's lola blankets. com with code happier for forty percent off select products . And now it's time for a happiness hack and this excellent suggestion comes from listener Sue . Yes, she says, When I in a' partmicular mood or need to accomplish a specific task, I ask Spotify for a playlist to match . For example, spring cleaning, yard work, I just quit my job, packing for travel, pick me up songs, etc. It's fun to see it comes back with and I get to hear a lot of songs I haven't heard in a long time or are new to me. It helps on those days you might need a good tune to get you through. I love this suggestion. One of the things that the research shows is that listening to music is one of the quickest, easiest ways to intervene in our mood. And so if there is something that you're trying to inspire yourself to get done or you're trying to shake yourself out of a mood or you're trying to get yourself into a mood . Music is a really, really good way to do it. And I like the idea that she's also found a way to surface new music or to revisit music that she's forgot ten. I am not such a music listener , but I know that for many people , this is a huge thing that adds to the happiness of their life. Listening to a song that they forgot that they loved, finding a new artist. This can be really fun. And I like this way of tying it to something that's happening in her own life. Suf ties it, you could have it be part of your summer theme, you know, for design your summer. You could use music to help you do that. Yes, I can have a no worry play list. Yes, since I've been asking people for, you know, phrases and ways to set aside worry, which is one of my themes for the summer. Yes. Gretchen Sarah and I did something again inspired by a listener recently on Happy and Hollywood , my other podcast where we picked theme songs for different projects. Ooh That's another way to use music to get you in a mindset for what's going on. Were you thinking if this was a TV show, we might incorporate this music into it, or it's more this is a song that invokes the mood that we're trying to get into as we're working. Yes, more, this is the music that invokes the mood we want to be in, the mindset we want to have. Well, I've seen authors where they will put in the back the songs that they were listening to. Yes. I just read the Scorpio Races by Maggie Stef ader and she has in the back a list of songs that put her in the mood. I've seen many people. And I think that's really interesting. But let's say you know, I'm also reminded of you and Yacht Rock because you have sort of it's my yacht rock somewhere when we were driving away from our reading retreat , the screen of your car had yacht rock on it. I guess you had put that's an existing category, is it? Yeah. So satellite radio, there is a station called Yacht Rock . Yeah . So that's why I decided for that summer just that every time I was in the car, I was going to put on the Yacht Rock station. Yeah. Well, the thing about it don't worry. There's so manys, s Iong mean, listeners were saying it where they're explicitly saying, Don't worry. Yeah. There's a whole world of don't worry songs. So yeah, this is just really fun as a way to get in the mood and find new music. And I love this idea. Oh, one more thing I would say about picking this song for the projects . One of the things that the research shows is that if you have a ritual of work , it does help your brain lock in faster. Sometimes people do this with a scented candle. Yes. For me, it's I'm gonna sit down in the first thing in the morning with my cup of coffee. That signals to the brain, oh, this is what we're doing now. And now we're on this task. It's just like having a bedtime ritual helps your brain understand, oh, okay, now it's time to move towards sleep . Having some kind of ritual can help you get more quickly into the mode of a project. So that there's actually really good data behind that. And it's fun. It's fun. Yes. Love you. Thank you. And now for fun with the five senses, and speaking of the five senses and hearing because we were just talking about a playlist , one of the things I learned from Life in Five Senses is the importance of the senses for a happy, healthy life . And one simple, easy thing that you can do and you probably know if maybe you should do this is to get your hearing checked. Yes. It's interesting because kids get their hearing checked periodically through school , they have to, you know, have it checked for their health form. Yeah , but adults almost never get their hearing checked. I haven't had my hearing checked in decades. Yes. Well, I was thinking about this because a couple friends of mine have recently gotten hearing aids and they're all really happy that they did it. So here are some signs to think about if you're wondering whether you should get your hearing checked. One is people sound like they're mumbling or speech sounds muffled . You often ask people to repeat themselves. I think that's the number one thing that I think makes people aware of it. You keep asking them to repeat or you're asking to repeat. If you struggle to follow conversation in restaurants, parties or other places, there are a lot of trends in restaurants that make restaurants a lot louder. It used to be that restaurants had things like carpeting , tablecloths, heavy drapery. That was kind of the look of a restaurant. Now it's things like wood , concrete , tile. Yeah. That makes sound bounce, bounce, bounce. A lot of times they have loud sound systems, loud music playing . That's just a trend now , which I do not like. I wish that there was a chain of restaurants called Quiet Restaurant. I would go there, but it's something to think about as you choose a restaurant, even if you don't need a hearing aid, but if you universally are finding this difficult, you might need help. Phone conversations being harder to understand . You turn up the TV or your headphones loud and people keep saying, Oh, too loud, too loud . You find yourself really tired after socializing because you had to concentrate so hard on listening . You avoid conversation altogether or social settings because it's very frustrating because you can't hear people . And then also if you have ringing buzzing or roaring in your ears, that might be a sign of it. And the thing about hearing loss is that it happens very gradually . And so we adapt to it and we don't realize how much we're not hearing because we forgot that we could hear it. Yeah, I remember when Dad got his hearing aids, suddenly he could hear like the rustling newspaper pages and coffee pouring. And those are just things that have dropped out which you don't even realize, but once you can hear again , the world comes live . Yes, yes. The thing is when it's harder to hear conversations take more effort, social occasions become frustrating. Phone calls can be difficult. You might withdraw without even really noticing it. People might withdraw from you without really realizing why. That can lead to isolation. And that is just such a problem for our health and happiness . Look, and it can also actually be dangerous because hearing can make it hard to hear advice, hard to hear things like smoke alarms or ph aone, hearing an approaching car or a bicyclist . It seems like it also helps with cognitive decline. And of course, hearing aids don't restore it altogether, but they can be a big, big help. Yes. And just a note on this greeting, if someone does have hearing aids, make sure they have them in if you're gonna have an important conversation . Yeah. When we were with Dad and he had to have an important medical conversation We interrupted the doctors to say, Dad, put in your hearing aids because we wanted to make sure he knew exactly what was being said. Yeah, and it was interesting to me that he didn't have that instinct . And I think that sometimes people sort of for get they need their hearing aids. They might think that they're hearing. And so I do think it's something to be really aware of, which is if this is really important, you know, you want to be able to hear every word clearly. And the good news, Gretchen is that the technology has improved so much. Yes. It's really not a big deal to wear a hearing aid. You wouldn't even notice announced at the time. No, they're smaller, they're more convenient. They're a lot more price points now . They've become much more accessible and often cheaper for many people because over the counter hearing aids became available in the United States . That happened in october twenty twenty two. And so if you have mild to moderate hearing loss you can just get these online or in stores. You don't need a prescription, you don't need a medical exam, you don't need an audiologist fitting. I mean, of course, you know, you might want a more sophisticated evaluation and choice , but it's just good to know that if you haven't really been paying attention for like thirty years , all of this has come a long, long way . I remember, you know, our grandmother struggled so much with her hearing aids. It's nothing like that now . It's so much easier. Yeah. And Gretchen, a benefit is I think for most people, their hearing aids can also count as like ar pods . Yes essentially . So they're very useful in that way too. You can listen to music, you could have phone conversations, etc through your hearing aids. My mother in law is always like, Oh, I'm listening to a podcast or whatever. Yeah. One of things the too, I think, is that I think sometimes people don't want to get hearing aids because they don't want to seem older , but we seem older when we keep asking people to repeat themselves. Yes. And so I think if you need them, you will seem more youthful and with it and vigorous with them than without them. Absolutely. So let us know you have recently gotten a hearing aid and it improved your life or if this inspires you to go get your hearing aids and maybe get some hearing aids. Absolutely. And now there's a listener question from Amalie and Elizabeth, this is a question for you. Amalie writes, I'm curious for Elizabeth about how she divides her time between television work and working on a novel . That seems really hard . I think it is hard. Also, how did she and Sarah split the work? It seems very complicated. A lot of people are interested in that, Elizabeth, how you and Sarah split up your work. Yeah, I'll answer that first. So what we do is whatever we're working on, whether it be TV or novel , we discuss at length what we're going to write, so what the scene is going to be . And we do that for chunks or if we're doing it for a TV show, we'll do like the whole episode. And this is a very common thing that TV writers do. They we call it breaking the episode . Then what we do is we actually split up the scenes to write because it's very hard to actually write a scene together . So we split up the scenes, then we do notes, we rewrite , and then we either rewrite again on our own or at a certain point we start rewriting together because rewriting together is much easier than writing together . And so we do that for TV and we are doing the same thing for the book. We know what the scene is and then we're going to each write scenes. Okay, so here's a question. At this point are your styles very similar? I think so. One thing we're going to do with the novel is read each other's scenes as we go to make sure that we are kind of using similar voices so that they mesh well because we, of course, haven't written nearly as many novels of we have scripts so that's a little diceier . What's nice about television is once you have a pilot episode, all the voices are very established . So anybody should be able to write yes in a similar way. That's part of being a TV writer. So in TV, it's actually very easy . How we divide our time , I mean that is one of the biggest questions we face because we talk about urgent versus important . Writing our novel is important , but there's no urgency to it. Whereas many of our TV projects feel very urgent and like, oh, we have to do that this week or we have a meeting on this tomorrow . So that has been a struggle. And we said, oh, we're going to set aside X number of weeks and just power through a novel . But the fact is if somebody calls and says, hey, are you interested in doing X project , we don't have the wherewithal to sort of pass up that we would be interested in, but we can't say, alright, we're interested. We'll get back to you in three months . So it's a struggle. Gretch, that's actually part of the reason we did this exercise of choosing theme songs for various projects so that we could get into the mindset of different projects quickly because it is really hard to creatively switch back th constantly. It really kind of messes with the flow. So what I would say, Amalie is that we struggle with it. We have not found the perfect solution . Yeah, I mean given the nature of your industry, it's not like you can say Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we'll work on TV, Tuesday, Thursday, we'll work on the novel because you have meetings, you have deadlines, you have things come up, you have an idea , oh like, we better like go in there and fix this right now. It's kind of all happening all at once. And also I feel like you really need to have a lot of projects going because it's so hard to predict what's going to go the distance . And so you can't just say, okay, let's just go all in on this that would not be strategically wise. No, unless a show is actually in production and going and you are physically, you know , on set , you really do need to have several projects going. I mean over five . Yeah . So it's difficult and because that's our kind of bread and butter , we can't just turn our backs on it to write the novels. So we're trying, we're learning, we're constantly evolving, but it's a great question. So one more thing I would add just because I think people who are interested in collaboration would be interested to hear you talk about Google Docs and why that was such a breakthrough for you in terms of you and Sarah collaborating on documents. Yes, so we had an assistant named Waffla who was absolutelyam Aantd and Sarah and I start Google Docs, which we didn't want to do now that you think back on it . Bananas, right? Madden. This was a long time ago. To be fair. Yes. But anyway, she got us to use Google Docs and Google Docs are designed so that multiple people can be using a document at the same time or not at the same time , but it really helps us because we can evolve a document together or separately and only have it in one place rather than the old days where you had to email each other new stuff and put it together and it was incredibly confusing and could easily lead to big mistakes. Yeah. This is a very streamlined way to work on something together. So I highly recommend it for anyone who doesn't yet use Google Docs. Are you ever both in a document and both typing at the same time and both even in the same paragraph, like she's changing a word and you're adding a sentence or is it more like one of you is driving? Yes, all the time when we're together when we're working together. If we're working separately, if one of us sees the other is working in the document, we'll just find a different place to work and then put it in it's too unnerving to be writing a scene and have somebody elsewhere also writing. It feels then like a competition . Yes . But if we're working together, yes, we'll both be working at the same time because we can see what the other is doing. So it's easy. Right. And then there's just one more question from Katie. And she think I mentioned off handed ly that about the episode of Fantasy Island where the woman just wanted to rest. And that came out of Sarah's experience as a new mother where all she wanted to do is sleep. And Katie asked, Which is the Fantasy Island episode with the woman who wants to rest . I want to rewatch that, but a Google search did not help me. Do you remember which episode that was Elizabeth? Yes, correction. And that was probably my favorite episode. It was in season one, episode six . It was called The Big OH . Oh yes . And it was women celebrating their fiftieth birthdays. And one of the really fun things about that episode is that it featured women who had been in the cast of Melrose Place . So it was also sort of a Melrose Place reunion and we had a couple of sly references to Melrose Place. So definitely recommend looking up that episode. Okay, Katie, go watch. Okay, coming up, Gretchen gives herself a packing demerit the first break . Buying glasses used to feel way more complicated than it should be. There were so many choices and somehow it always felt expensive. That is why we are both such fans of Warby Parker. Their virtual Try letons you see how frames look right from your phone and it's surprisingly accurate. I am wear my Warby Parker glasses right this second. I love how easy it was to find a style that actually fits my face and feels like me. What really stands out is the combination of quality, selection and value. Prescription glasses start at dollar ninety five dollars and Warby Parker also offers contacts, online eye exams, sunglasses, and more all in one . Plus, they have over three hundred retail stores nationwide if you want an in person option. I go to one in studio city. I love it . Right now, buy one pair of glasses and get twenty percent off any additional pairs at warbyparker. com slash happy. That's twenty percent off any additional pairs when you purchase one pair at W AR BYY PARKER. com slash happy . I've been trying to say yes more to little adventures. Nothing huge, just getting out of the routine and going somewhere different for the day . And it really makes you appreciate having a car that feels solid and comfortable , where you're not thinking about the drive, you're just focused on where you're going. That's what stood out to me about the Defender. It has that rugged design, but it also feels really thoughtful inside. And I like that there's a full lineup from the two door ninety to the one hundred ten and the one thirty was seating for up to eight. So it really fits different kinds of plans . And it's built with those durable, purposeful materials so you can actually use it without worrying about every little thing. It also has features that make driving feel easier like Clear Site Technology and the Pivi Pro system so you can keep track of where you're going and everything you want to listen to along the way . Plus with up to eighty nine cubic feet of cargo space and available three rows, it gives you a lot of flexibility depending on what you're bringing with you. Explore the full defender lineup at Land Rover usa. com Summer always changes what I want to wear. I stop reaching for anything heavy or complicated and just want pieces that feel light, comfortable and easy. From the first second I put them on . That's why I keep coming back to Quince. Their linen pieces especially have become my default this time of year. I have a linen button down from Quintz that, you know, it's one of those pieces that works for everything for travel, for dinner, for weekends, it feels much more expensive than it is. I love that Quince uses high quality materials like European linen and organic cotton, but everything is priced fifty percent to eighty percent less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quints dot com slash greeten for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q INCE dot com slash Gretchen for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns Quince dot com slash Gretchen . Okay, Gretch, we are back with Demerits and Gold Stars and this week you are up with a happiness demerit. Okay, I mean, I've done this a million times. I did it again. I was going on a big trip with my family and I kept saying over and over, I should plan my packing . I should make a special list. Like I have a list that's sort of a basic list, but I should make an actual list for this trip. But I kept putting it off classic thing. It's so far away. I have so much time