Trivia and Final Fan Theories

War is here, and the official Game of Thrones podcast is back to unpack the new season of the HBO original series House of the Dragon. I'm Jason Concepcion and I'm Greta Johnson. Together we will be discussing every new episode of House of the Dragon with the show's writers, cast, and crew. You will do things that your heart would have recoiled from before you came to the throne . You can watch us on HBO Max or listen wherever you get your bodcasts If the governors desire my removal , I will, of course , step aside . However , you will find that help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it . Hello Hello and welcome to Harry Potter The Official Film Podcast as we work our way through the entire film series One Spell at a time . I'm Rihanna Dylan, lifelong Harry Potter superfan, film critic and , a proud Slytherin. I sleep in a Slytherin Keeper Nighty with a little Lego Draco watching over me at night. It's not creepy, I promise. We're making our way through the entire series and you can watch every film along with us on HBO Max. Today we're diving into the second half of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets . By my side again , the helger to my salazar, as we make our way to the chamber is producer and gaming personality Naomi Kyle. Hi again, Naomi. Hello. How you 're back? Yeah, happy to be back. We didn't scare you off. Nope. I stuck close by so I could quickly run back to the stage. Now I know that obviously you love Harry Potter, but do you remember like a moment where you thought all the film series is so important to me? Yeah, I think it was this movie actually where I yeah, I was a very shy kid and I didn't really have a lot of friends starting high school and so I felt like this was the second movie by the time I had watched the first one. I felt like I could really connect to the characters and I really became interested in acting because they were kind of the same age as me and they were doing such a good job . I was like maybe I'll do something on camera. I don't know, that was just my thought. Like maybe I'll just go on adventures and like see if I can do something like that as a career, but it evolved into what it is now, which I'm really happy with. But yeah, it became a thing from that and just the films are so amazing They're so amazing. It's really hard to describe sometimes how much they had an impact on me. I guess also as a gamer though, like that is going on adventures. All the time. Like all the time. Constantly. Question you left right and center. Every time and following his story it's the whole thing. Yeah. Okay, so you really did like find something that was akin to this. It was the first be this it was the first time I had the idea of like I'm going to maybe want to do this for a living or something in the creative arts very cool. Yeah. Okay, so we pick up as Harry is called at Dumbledore's Office for yet another please explain yourself kind of meeting, but first he gets bullied by a hat . Be in your bonnet, Potter I was just wondering if you put me in the right house. Yes , you were particularly difficult to place , but I stand by what I said last year . You would have done well in Slytherin . You're wrong . I feel like Paul Harry's having such an identity crisis at this point. Always being told you should have been slother any way. You would have done well in the yeah, yeah, yeah. I know I would have been so much more like aggressive about it than him. You're wrong. Yeah. He's like, you're wrong. But he's still like feeling it inside. Feeling it inside, yeah. Why do you think that he doesn't confess to Dumbledore in this scene? Because obviously he has done nothing wrong. I think he's still trying he's still knowing like Hermione and Ron still have a big influence on him . And so I think they, you know, said , Don't say anything about hearing hearing voices. That is not good at any point in the Wizarding World Series. How does Hermione know that as well? She says that to him with like such confidence confidence and she knows she , I just think it's her book reading. She she knows everything and she will not she loves to be in the know , even if she doesn't know . Exactly. Yeah. So I think at that point Harry's just like , I don't know if I should trust the teachers just yet. You know, I'm still getting to know them. I don't know if I should trust Dumbledore . So I think he's still holding on to what she had just said . And I think at that point, he's holding on until maybe he'll eventually trust Dumbledore and as we do come to see he does. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it that we kind of think, Oh, Dumbledore is this like this wonderful old man who oversees everything because he's so trustworthy and you know, we're kind of like you. Obviously you can trust the headmaster. But as we learn, Dumbledore is actually not as trustworthy as he seems. So maybe his harry's instincts are correct. Correct, a little bit. Yeah. And also what I love in this scene, I think Fawkes is one of my favorite magical creatures that we ever meet. And we meet him for the first time , like on a burning day. Yeah. So he's not in full plumage. He's not at his most beautiful. Look a little rough . You see the bond between Dumbledore and Fawkes, but just seeing that little forks like being born out of the ashes like little baby forks. Such great puppetry . What do you think about him? I think perfect for Harry to see him on a burning day just to get to understand like he learned so much from that interaction and that's important. Yeah, extremely important to the storytelling. So yeah, I think it was it was a great time to see, you know, the Phoenix in that position. And then obviously, you know, such an integral part, like a creature that really does end up saving him in the end. But yeah, I loved that they did practical effects for it . It looks believable, it looks real. Also just such a cute gorgeous looking bird . And I love the Dumbledore that that's his go to buddy. Like that's his dude. Yeah. And also the fact that they just like the magical properties of a phoenix are so wild. No, can have it carry really heavy objects, also magical healing tears. Yeah . Not objects, people. Like we'll carry a lot of people and pretty easily actually . I know it's like really random but just so perfect for this particular situation that Harry ends up in . So as Christmas arrives we rejoin Harry, Ron and Hermione doing what they do best , bringing up a plan to solve a mystery. Yep. This is the conclusion of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. Are you ready? I'm ready. Let's do this. We'll have exactly an hour before we change back into ourselves . Add the hairs Excess of crab cheers I think I've got to be sick . Me too . So the trio carries out their apologies potion plan, disguising themselves as Crab and Goyle and also Melissa Bullstrod's cat. Poor Hermione, wrong hair. What do you think about Hermione's transformation here . I thought it was so cute. It's so cute. I wanted to see more of it actually because I felt like it was, but you know, she felt so shy about it and loved that it was, again, another practical like makeup and it wasn't CGI and anything like that. Apparently they tried loads of different kinds of cats and they there was like a really cute ginger one but they thought that was too pretty. Too pretty. Yeah, they were like it needs to be a bit kind of like uncanny a bit more uncanny. Yeah, a little disturbing. Yeah. And that's the thing, you know, imagine being transformed into an animal. Like you know what if a human feels like but what is feeling like turning into an animal feel like? I feel like that would be really uncomfortable . So I sympathize with her a lot there. So Harry and Ron go on, they fool Draco and they learn that the last time the Chamber of Secrets was opened, fifty years ago a muggleborn student died and now it appears that it might be happening again . So a while after Hermione's furry debacle . The boys find themselves on their own in moaning Myrtle's bathroom. Harry picks up a blank diary that immediately starts writing him back that's such an obvious red flag . Right, but don't you feel like that's part of being a Gryffindor you're going to go for the risk taking. You're going to go for the craziest thing you could do, right? And I remember in the books, it was a little bit more like there was more conversation with Tom. He was a bit friendlier, like more open sounding and I feel like they made it really ominous in this film, which I actually liked. I worked 'cause they really held on like it really carried through the mystery of like what this book was doing. Yes. And I think at this stage we have absolutely no idea who this is.. Right I never heard of them. No, right. Me and my friends always do the impression of Daniel Ragnath writing in the diary. Okay . Do you know anything about the chamber of secrets. And it's just so like so the diary pulls Harry into a memory from fifty years ago where we meet teenage Tom Riddle, very handsome, very handsome. He has a badge so I can't remember if he's prefect or the head boy . So we know that he has some sort of social standing . He gets a young Hagrid expelled from Hogwarts for opening the chamber and he walks away looking suspiciously pleased with himself. Back in the present, things escalate quickly. Quidditch is cancelled. You can't cancel Quidditch is wood, love would . He's only have one thing on his mind and it's always quidditch. Riddles sus diary is nicked and Hermione is found petrified holding a mirror, so then Harry and Ron visit Hagrid in search of answers. While they're there, Hagrid is unjustly accused of being involved yet again by the Minister of Magic, the first time that we meet Cornelius Fudge, and is taken away, but not before telling the boys to follow the spiders. And to top it all off, Daddy Malfoy shows up and gets Dumbledore suspended. So Harry and Ron take Hagrid's advice to follow the spiders into the Forbidden Forest. For future reference, guys, just don't do that. Don't do it. So whatever Hagrid tells you to do in the Forbidden Forest just don't. I think at this after what happens, I think they have hopefully learned from that. I don't Yeah. They go back in. I would rup they have to go back in with like the midnight detention in the first film they go in. Yeah, never ends. And Hagrid should know better. That should. What's upsetting? It's like, I feel like he should know better . Everything is like falling apart now . Hermione is out of the picture . And we talked before it. She's kind of like the glue that holds everything together. So without her, what is happening to Harry and Rom? Well, I think they're trying to continue what Hermione has done. I think they're really in a spot where at this point they just are too far in. They have to continue searching, they have to continue following this. Maybe they're like laxing a little bit , but they do eventually pick up on clues and it's still at the top of their mind, I think. Yeah, I really love that Ron is like, Follow the spiders. Why can't it be follow the butterflies? I agree with him. It's such a good point but then in Hogwarts Legacy, the game, they take , follow the butterflies and make that its own quest. I love that. Which is such a great essentially one throwaway line from the film, but it's done it turns into a whole thing in the game. So great genius . In the forest, they meet Aragog, who confirms Hagrid's innocence and reveals that a girl died in the bathroom the last time the chamber was opened. After being so helpful and informative, Aragog and his hundreds of children try to kill the boys anyway because an Acromancula's got to eat, right? Right. Harry and Ron escape thanks to their feral Ford Anglia coming to the rescue. Would you have followed the Biders? Are you afraidid of spers? I'm afraid of any bug related . So actually this movie's really tough because with slugs, you know, coming up like that triggers me. I think any swarm of bugs period is very triggering or like scary for me. I don't like it. But I will say, you know, I would have done it. I just wouldn't have enjoyed it. You have had Ron's facial expression the whole time. I related to him one hundred percent. I do think it is such a ter rifying part of the film. It is it's one that when you see it young, I think it stays with you for the rest of your life. Yeah . And to think if they didn't have the car there, what would they have done? Well , we don't want to think about that. No. Back in the hospital wing, the boys find a torn library page in Hermione's petrified hand. We know it's serious of Hermione's destroying school property and they use her clue to identify the monster in the walls of Hogwarts as a basil isk. And then to top it all off, Jinny Weasley has been kidnapped and taken into the chamber . Really not good. Harry and Ron's mission escalates from mystery solving to life saving, search and rescue, and for some inexplicable reason, their fraud of a defense against a dark arts teacher, Professor Lockhart, is tasked with leading the mission. Why do you think they allowed Lockhart to lead this? Like, especially McGonagall and Snape. I know. And they were so sassy about it too, the way that they said it. They're like, Well, you're so smart, why don't you go do it? But I think it was to get him out of the way. Yeah. I think he was getting really annoying and they were like, You go do that and maybe hoping he would die. I don't know. Oh my God, that's so dark. It's very dark, but I don't think it was dark. I just think they were like , get this guy to do his own thing. And maybe they didn't think he would even do it. They were like, Oh, this guy's gonna bail. Yeah , you know, which they were right about . But also what were they doing? I don't know. We don't see them do anything. They were managing the students probably trying to figure out do we close the school? Like at that point it was What about Jinny? Where's Darbledore at this point? I know. Yeah, maybe he was away trying to figure out a way to save Jinny, or that is a good question . Harry and Ron attempt to help, as usual, but learn that Lockarth is indeed a fraud, who's been stealing other people's achievements and erasing their memories. Down in the plumbing, Lockhart tries to silence the boys as well, but accidentally obliviates himself due to Ron's backfiring wand. He collapses the tunnel and is trapped along with Ron among the rubble, leading to, I think, my favorite exchange of the whole film. Ron are you okay? Come vine Hello . Who are you ? Ron Weasley. Really? And who am I ? Lock memory champ backfired. He hasn't got a clue who he is. It's an odd sort of place this, isn't it? Do you live here? Noo ? Really? Honestly, I just love the banter and it's in like such a dire situation and it just makes me laugh every time his delivery. Do you have here? Do you know if there he's completely oblivious . He is completely oblivious. And I really like they've set up that it's not just like Ron's spells go awry with his terrible broken wand, it's that they literally backfire every time. Yeah . And so I think that's really a kind of smart way that they seed that in throughout the first story. So separated from Lockhart and Ron, Harry goes on alone. In the chamber, he finds Jinny barely alive with Tom Riddle kind of lurking nearby . Anagram fan, Tom Marvolo Riddle, reveals he's Voldemort's teenage diary ghost who's been possessing Jinny all year and that the chamber is basically his long con fifty years in the making. The basilisk attacks very slithery, bad vibes . Just when things are looking truly dire, Dumbledore's Phoenix forks, comes to the rescue, blinds the basilisk, and the sorting hat coughs up the sword of Gryffindor. Great timing . Harry goes into hero mode as he kills the monster in his epic showdown. He's stabbed, he's then healed by Phoenix tears, and then swiftly destroys the diary with the Basilisk Fang, wiping away the memory of Teen Waldy. But little does Harry know he's also destroying his first horcrops Oh man, what a moment. What a big deal. Do you find it satisfying the way that this particular Horcrux is destroyed? Because obviously the way they're destroyed each time is kind of different iconic in its own right, yeah. I think when Harry is stabbing the diary with the fang, you know, we see all this blood gushing out and I think that's super dramatic, but it's not actually blood. It's ink from the diary . The Ginny and Harry been feeding into it. Exactly. But that makes it even more dramatic. And then we of course see Tom and he's bursting all those lights. Yes . You know, everything that he stabs in the diary reflects as like a piercing light beaming from his body, which I thought was really cool. What's also amazing is that the ink that's coming out of the diary is real ink. As in like there were capsules that he was stabbing that were bursting and kind of like flooding out. Yeah, and it had that effect like really it like it sold the whole thing. I thought it was epic. I think it was in desperation like trying to save Jinny and himself. It was a very powerful moment. I think they did a good job representing it too in the film. Like the way that I had envisioned it in my when I was reading was the same. Yeah, so I like that. Okay, so back in the headmaster's office, Harry is still struggling with his identity crisis. Dumbledore casually informs Harry that he's got a bit of Voldemort living in his eye item . To soften the blow, Dumbledore also imparts some words of wisdom. It's not our abilities but our choices that truly define us. Iconic line. Yeah. And with that, Harry's got his groove back, apparently. In one final parting shot, Harry outsmarts Daddy Malfoy and frees Dobby with a sock. Epic way to do it . Just here's a book and it's incredible. Yeah, love. Love that moment. In the end, the petrified students are revived by Professor Sprout's Mandrake's Hagrid returns, and Hogwarts pretends that this is all just like a really super normal way to end the school year. Right, which I guess maybe for Hogwarts it is. It is. I mean, maybe they've experienced this the past fifty years. I don't know , but yeah, wild . Okay, we get some great performances. We get some great scenes. We meet new people . What kind of stands out for you in this second half of the Chamber of Secrets. I think because this is Richard Harris's final time as Dumbledore. I have to give it to him. Kind of pay tribute to him. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're right. He is, I mean, he's kind of like exactly Dumbledore. Yeah, it has to be him. Kind of lifted off the page. Yeah. I also love that we meet Cornelius Furge, although wear his lime green bowler hat. I don't know. And he has a ponytail. Right in this, which obviously we've got rid of by the third film . No lime green bowler hat, maybe that'll be coming in the series and he keeps spinning because I kind of like he has this nervous tick , but we do get more from Connelly's Fudge in later films . I also that classic Draco's line to Goyle, I didn't know you could read. I didn't know you could read So good. It's just like so it just kind of sums up everything about their relationship, I think. Yeah. I do like when Dumbledore says to Hagrid, he's like, Hagrid, relax. Like I love that part . I feel like that was a sign of Dumbledore we hadn't seen yet, just him being like kind of, you know, normal and funny. Yeah, right. Yeah , yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and Hagrid like comes storming in. He's like, it couldn't have been harry. Right. Like he's just so sweet and like so defensive over that . Yeah, so and also can you believe actually that the trio ever thought that Hagrid would have been capable of imparting such destruction upon the castle. No, because to me he's just personified as like this very humble gentle giant you know sort of guy and I gentle half giant. That's right. That's right . So yeah, I think he needs to reexamine how he like handles he sends them off on things where I'm like hagrid, any adult would have not done this . You know? Yeah, absolutely. Chamber of Secrets introduces us to Dobby. So love him him or hate. We're required to discuss Is Dobby actually helpful? Like do any of his plans actually come off? Does he help Harry in any way? It depends how you look at it. I think, you know, obviously we know his intentions are good , but I do think he puts Harry in some hairy situations . Yeah, like is it more harry or is it more Dobby? Like would Harry just find himself there? Right, exactly. And you know, I keep holding on to this , which is if Dobby hadn't stopped them from getting on platform nine and three quarters, they wouldn't have had the car to save them from Arag. Oh my god, that's so true. So I just think like that to me ans that whatever Dobby did chaotic or not save him and Ron. You know what? I had never thought about that before and you've absolutely convinced me. Right. Well there you go. That's such a good thing. For Dobby and I'll fast . And also, like we were saying earlier about Dobby's kind of character arc . I mean, we will talk about this definitely in later episodes , but he will always try and come to Harry's rescue. Oh yeah. And Harry can ask him absolutely anything and he will do it in a heartbeat , even to the point of sacrificing his own life for Harry. There's so many different things. Dobby's such an interesting and complex character. He really is. And I think like I said, when you first meet him , I'm like, oh, go hed's actually quite irr itating . Because it would be irritating to have somebody just A keep telling you how like wonderful and special you are. Like that's too much Take it down , like take it down a notch . But equally, the emotional rollercoaster that would go on, I've never cried so much. I don't think in a book as when I read about Dobby's death. Like almost more than any other character. Oh man . So like , I was there. I know. You were feeling it. I was really feeling it. If you had Dobby , to protect you yes , would feel comforted or would you feel slightly terrified? I'd be a little scared Yeah, because the other thing about Harry is he's very lucky. I'm not that lucky . So I think it would be a bad situation . And I would be stressed out. I would be really stressed out truly. What about you? I don't think I would cope well with all the pain, the broken bones. Oh yeah, that would come or no bones. from this Or no bones. I don't mean I'll come with no bones. Okay, it's time for owl post . We've got an owl from a fellow potter fan This is such an interesting one. You ready? I'm ready. This is a hot take from Angela P. from New York . Moaning Myrtle can't even read this, sorry. Moaning Myrtle doesn't deserve our sympathy What? She's described as having been a sensitive , lonely student who was often teased and resulted in her always crying in the bathroom, but this is not the myrtle that we meet as a ghost. Sure she's still crying all the time but she also has crazy mood swings, is always complaining and she's just honest ly pretty rude to everyone except Harry who she found she. She fancies . And I get that she might be kind of bitter about being a ghost, but if she was anything like her ghost persona in real life, I understand why her classmates didn't like her. She does not pass the vibe check and honestly seems like a real nightmare to have hanging around, both in life and in death. Oh my god. Oh my god. I mean, I'm I don't think I agree . I don't think I agree. And she died so young. So young. It's wild to say that about someone who's, you know, maybe figuring out life and that's maybe why she didn't fit in . And yeah, I would be upset about being a ghost. You know, and she fancies people she could never really have a relationship with this. That's a little sad. That's so sad. I don't know if I agree. It's all unrequited . And I mean we do we know we kind of get a bit more myrtle development later in the series and she develops another crush. Right. But also , yeah, I feel like she is bullied and that's why she's crying in the toilets. You know, who else did that? Hermione. Yeah. Exactly. Like, can you imagine if at that point a basilist could have come out and killed Hermione ? And then Hermione would have just been stuck as like an eleven year old haunting a Hogwarts toilet. Yeah e,qually. She would have been stuck with Myrtle. Oh my goodness. Yeah, see now I'm like, Oh no, poor Hermione. So maybe I do have Merceny Maybe we have a different Yeah goodness looking at that perspective but yeah I do I do think Myrtle gets a bad rap. I also think that she's just, she is who she is, and that's okay. She hasn't found her people yet. You know? When will she ever? I don't know. But I relate to not being like fitting in and to being bullied. And yeah, the bathroom's not a good place to hang out in general, so to be stuck there for life, you know, although she does like sneak over to like oh she does prepare she's known to go check . Oh, she spies on centric digger. When you're nothing . Arested development at thirteen, fourteen. That's who you're, that's what you're thinking about, right? Yeah. You're thinking about the people that you fancy, people you have crushes on. And she never moves past that. Her language , the way that she expresses herself is so emotional because she's she just has never had the chance to grow up. That's right. She's still in the sense of like trying to figure herself out and she's it might come off as self centered , you know, rude , which yeah, her tone could use a little bit of work, but I think overall, like this is a young kid who died very young in a tragic way. I don't think we should be too hard on her. I agree. Yeah. And also, if you go to the toilets at Universal Studios, that's right. You can hear Martial shock at first when you realize and you're like, Oh yeah, you're on the loom, and you're like, Oh, my goodness, is there someone in there with me? Right. Oh, it was just Mertil. Yeah, I secretly wish she would just like pop her head through my saw. I'll be like, Anyway, Angela, we think that you're mean. Yeah. I don't know. Let's revisit yeah hot take let's try a different approach . We want to hear from you. Keep an eye on our socials at Harry Potter for your chance to send in your favorite moments, your burning questions , and of course your hottest takes, even if they are cruel like that one. So the sorting hat was right. I should be in Slytherin. It's true, Harry, you possess many of the qualities that Voldemort himself prizes , determination, resourcefulness , and if I may say so, a certain disregard for the rules . Why then do the sorting cat place you in Gryffindor? Because I asked her to Exactly, Harry. Exactly which makes you different from Voldemort . It is not our abilities that show what we truly are . It is our choices . We mentioned Dumbledore's iconic abilities and choices line earlier, and obviously it resonates a lot with people. And everyone has to make choices, but in Chamber of Secrets , a few characters make some extremely questionable ones but even little Jinny Weasley, right? Yeah. You expect it from the biggens, but even little Jinny. So why do you think that she stays silent when she thinks she might she's kind of suspicious of herself being the one who did all of these awful things. I think it's tough. I think she's young . I think anyone who's eleven years old and going through something like that doesn't really know how to speak up. Maybe she hasn't learned to do that yet. And I think there's another element where in her mind, she kind of thinks like she's going crazy . And she's I remember that being very emphasized in the book and they show it in this movie as well. Like there is a part of her that is like, am I losing my mind? Yeah , right. I think she's trying to work up the courage. 'Cause you can imagine Mrs. Weasley is very like no nonsense. Right. And she always has so much going on and the boys kind of have each other, I guess the closest one to her is Ron. Yeah . You don't see them have like a super close relationship. Right. So maybe they're both kind of a bit isolated out on their own and we don't see her like find her true friends until maybe later in the season. That's right. So maybe she is, you know , like you were talking about, like being that one definitely when I first started school, like didn't have any friends, really really wouldn't really have anyone to talk to. Afraid of saying the wrong thing. Yeah, totally . And so yeah, I think actually it's probably quite realistic that she would stay quiet. So interesting. And then let's talk about lock art because Gildorroy chooses fame over int egrity time and again . And it's that constant kind of battle that we see throughout like is somebody evil or are they just like out for themselves? Are they just cowardly? Are they just interested in this particular strain of magic? So what do you think about him? Where is the line for Lockhart ? I don't know if he has a line. I don't know. I think he goes whatever, like whatever benefits him , whatever makes him look the best sorry self . And I think it all stems from we don't know much about his upbringing, you know . So I'm one to say evil , yes, but I don't know. He's definitely doing it intentionally because he admits that he's been trying to capitalize on other people's, you know , heroic moments . And I think that that's a part of Lockhart that he can't help himself. Like he just continually needs to a it' besast like that can never be satisfied . Like he's always having to feed it more and more attention, more and more adoration and intelligence was maybe something that he latched onto and like something he could use to leverage for his own personal game. Yeah, that's a really good point. Thank you. I what I don't get is why Dumbledore would hire him. And it's not Dumbledore's first time like making a questionable teacher hire. And I think he definitely knows that Lockhart's fra aud everyone, knows. I wonder if he just thinks that he's exaggerated a lot, but maybe he thinks that actually at the heart of it he has done a lot of this stuff. You think he truly believes that? Maybe he does because I just don't think how you could, with any integrity bring somebody into the school right that has lied about their credentials in that way because the reason because he wasn't going to hire Sybil Trelawney thinking that she was a fraud and then actually here's her prophecy and realizes that that was at least real , and that's why he hires her . So I think he must think there's a grain of truth in what Gildroy is saying. Also, by the way, I love the amount of Gildroy Lockart iconography that he has in his own space.. Yeah Like he has all of these portraits of himself in different positions and they're all like wearing like their own like curling their hair and they're just so brilliantly vain all of them. He's so wild he brought a painting of himself to the class that he's teaching. Multiple. Multiple paintings, but that particular one of him like, is he even like painting a picture of himself within the portrait? Yes . Wild. That guy's wild. Excellent. Yeah, it he''ss the perfect encapsulates it encapsulates this character perfectly. What I never really think about is that if they are doing, you know, he has all of those portraits of himself is that Kenneth Brannon must have had to film all of those different shots. All of them. You're right . Well that , I mean, I'm sure he loved it . All the costumes, again, so much fun. This film really like upped the fashion element of this , like of the series. I really think that yeah, incredible all the way around and I love that Kenneth just brought this little like I don't know, brought him to life so perfectly. Now finally Lucius , he makes some very questionable decisions and choices all the way through but one which, I feel like nobody talks that much about is right at the end when he realizes that Harry has cost him his house elf that he's freed to Dobby, he goes to curse Harry. Yeah, sounds like he's about to say Avada Cada . Yes. He was one hundred percent about to var. And then Dolby gets in there . Was he really about to try and kill Harry in front of Dumbledore's office in Ogwell? I think one hundred percent. Do you think really think that? I think impulsive decision Lucius Malfoy was about to kill Harry in front of Dumbledore's office on school grounds governor I know cool governor I know but he only does it for malicious reasons so I think he's not that's not his priority . he Like's he's out to get Harry. I just find that crazy so messed up. I know. That would have been a tragic end, but I'm glad we, you know, I'm glad Dobby was there. Another reason. Why was Dobby there? He's supposed to be a household. Why wasn't he in the house? My answer to that is just that yeah, he's a househeld, but he also helps him run errands. That's a good explanation, I think . But now. What's great about the Chamber of Secrets is there are so many examples of how they use like prosthetics and makeup and practical effects to create not just like amazing creatures but also like the way that they transfigure some of the characters. So like obviously H,ermione turning into a cat . That was all practical effects, which I just find so impressive. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine how long it was to put all of that on . And what it looked like in person. Yeah. Do you imagine like touch the face? Right. Stroke. Like is it soft? Can I think Emma wasn't actually Emma Watson? It was like her, it was her body double. Yeah, that's right. 'Cause she was allergic to the glue. Yeah. I mean, that's it's a long wait in the chair , so I guess it helped her in the end like yeah, potentially . And also you know, the petrified students . So Nick Dubman basically created like these life casts of the actors and that's why they're so detailed , which makes it kind of really uncanny. Very uncanny. I remember seeing it for the first time in theater and thinking like how did they do that? Yeah , like it looked so real. And even now, like looking back, I was like, wow, yeah, that is an exact copy of Hermione, like just in this position. They probably like three D print it now. Right. I don't know what they would do. Yeah, you're right. Technology moving on, but I think that's like all of this craft took such a long time. Yeah . It was just hours and hours of just like sticking things together and painting things. And yet we get these incredibly like realistic , beautiful props and effects throughout. I was so lucky I got to speak to Nick Dudman who was the creature and makeup effects designer. So he was the one that basically brought these iconic creatures and the polyguice transformations to life. So let's see what he had to say. Nick Dudman, welcome to Harry Potter The Official Film Podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. Oh, my pleasure, thank you very much. Now Chamber of Secrets, I feel really expands the mag ical universe, especially when it comes to creatures. We have Mandrakes, we have Aragog, terrifying. We have a polyge mishap. We have a sixty foot basilisk. So which challenge out of all of those excited you the most? Oh , I think of all of them it was probably aragog, primarily because I hate spiders and I felt too I mean I really hate spiders . And I thought it was an interesting challenge to attempt to get the effect that you have as an emotional reaction to a real spider. And I didn't know if we could achieve that or not mechanically . But the idea was that the Aragog puppet and puppets quite a simple term for what we actually built because this was a giant spider with an eighteen foot leg span and it was on a sort of seaweed with a huge weight, a counterweight at the other end , under the ground, on tracks. So this could be wheeled in. And then if you push down at one end it comes up at the other and all the mechanical legs had to be able to come out of the hole. It was a complex thing. It took about twenty people to operate and underneath there's TV screens and people are moving things about. And if somebody was in charge of a particular leg , they had a leg down there, so metal leg, and whatever that metal leg did , the hairy leg outside did in reverse . And it was a joy to do. I mean , whenever you make something that is patently unreal, it's pretend it's fake, it's not real . And then you put somebody in front of it and you operate it and they freak out as if the thing is real, you know, somebody reacts to it as though it's an animal as opposed to a mechanism, you know who you've succeeded. Do any of these creatures ever feel real or either kind of anthropomorphic or otherwise? Do you attribute personalities to them when you're working on them? Oh yes . Usually it's extremely bad language because it's not doing what you think it should do. I found myself talking to a creature when I should be turning around and talking to the operator who's behind me at a desk on a computer, but you somehow find yourself dealing with the character rather than the machinery. It's such an interesting point of the Harry Potter series as a whole, but especially with Chamber of Secrets, I suppose because there were so many of these practical effects, but CGI coming in , you kind of found yourself at that intersection of visual effects, special effects and camera effects. So how did that impact your job? Did you have to persuade Chris Columbus to go in a certain way that you prefer red working in, or were you happy to experiment with both? How did it work? Well, it was kind of organic because it had been going on on movies I'd worked on before the Potters series . But because the Potter series was like a ten year project , you really did see things through from A to Z. I always remember with Chris Columbus. He had a very good attitude to things because you could say, Oh, we could do that for practically, we could do that for real. I proposed that you could shoot all Robbie's close ups on Robbie . But where you had big shots, things it's like half the cast are only four feet tall. You know, they're all little kids. They're tiny. So why not put somebody in a great big scaled up hagrid suit ? Because you're actually filming the children. You're only filming the lower half of this character . And it can all be done for real, you know, as practical shots. I love that. Now I want to talk because we're talking about Chamber of Secrets. Oh yes, yes. We have to mention Dobby, who, of course, appears on screen as a CG character, but he did start off as a sculptor, is that right? So can you tell us about the evolution of Dobby? What we started with was a series of concepts of Dobby , which I think Rob Bliss did . And you look at them and the first question you go to is could this be a yoda puppet? Could this be digital? What makes sense, which then leads you down the path of or what does it have to do ? What interaction is there? And talking about it, we decided all of us would it basically it should be digital . There was simply the restrictions of doing it as a puppet would be a nightmare . And especially you're performing with a young lad and there was a lot about it that was like, No, we need more control . So we had the two dimensional drawings. Then one of my sculptors, Kate Hill did a three D version of it through head and shoulders and then built a complete body as a discussion point , because at that point , a lot of things that were going to end up digitally were created physically as objects for discussion purposes and Fredrik to sign off on the. end In we had Dobby Dummies and you know, all sorts of things . But the actual performance, you know, was completely digital and led , you know, by visual effects. When you were talking earlier about the different stages that you have of building a creature . I was just thinking about what was the research phase like for something that you're terrified of, i. e. a spider . How do you sort of research it almost like with your eyes shut you',re like, Oh , I have to immerse myself into this particular place . In any makeup thing, you know, from Oh, I've got to put a bullet wound on somebody. Yeah. You have to look up what a real bullet wound looks like. It's not nice. You know, you'll open a reference book and you'll take a peek and you'll go, OK, and then you won't look at it again . You're also looking for character . So yes, you've got to, in the case of Aragog, you've got to what kind of sp ider? You know, what kind of real spider should we base it on? You know, what are the things what spider behaves kind of the way we want, you know, all of that. Then, it's a character. It delivers dialogue. If you look at the mouth parts of a spider, it just makes no sense at all in terms of this is not this is not going to lip sync , you know ? So how do you convey the suggestion that the voice is actually and the face is moving? It's why we moved all the hair on the face and these great big mandible things in front petty pulps, I think they were in the front . You know, they all move in different ways. And it was simply let's move them to see if when you play the sound , I'm believing it's coming from there. Even though there's no logic to it at all . So there was a lot of research for that. You know, sort of we had a big spider head, we built it. And it's all trial and error because everything you build, whether it's a basilisk or a ragog or whatever the hell mandrakes , everything is a prototype, you know, everything. That sort of thing of do you know how to do this ? Yes, but do bear in mind it'll be the first one we've ever built. Do you have a favorite stage of the whole thing, whether it's researching, developing, the building or even the filming stage, which is the one that you get the most job satisfaction out of . I think there's two stages. One is when you first put something together and you look at it and then you look at each other and you just go oh god this is working. You know you, build a f ire breathing dragon in a cage and you decide you're going to set this off in the car park at night. And John Richardson, the special effects guy has brought it up with a propane tank . And none of us really know how it's going to go . And it's that first moment when something happens and in that case, you know, a ball of flame forty feet across , where you just go yep, that works. The other stage when it's really lovely is when you're just standing there on set and you just see the first take where everything falls into place because any of these fake things, they only work if there's actors in the frame reacting to them as if they're real. And when you get a fab performance from someone involving or bringing in one of the things you've built, that is lovely . When we did the puppet of Fawkes , the Phoenix standing on his perch in Dund ore's office. Richard Harris came over at lunchtime. We were just kiddling with it and just said, Yeah, are you in charge of this? And I said, Yeah, and he said, It's amazing. I don't know how you train them . And myself and my chief engineer went it's a puppet. And I can't repeat the actual language he used . I love that so much, Richard Harris, what a legend. I have to ask you quickly about the basilisk as well because yeah, I remember reading about the Bilasisk and being so terrified by it just on the page and then seeing it come to life in the way that it does at the end of Chamber of Secrets and seeing Harry fighting it. I mean, it's such a realistic, terrifying fight. So can you tell us about the kind of practicalities when it came to creating something that had to look so enormous and designing it so that it would still terrify everybody who came across it? Well , the first brief was the fact that for any scene, any shots where it's slithering all over the place , it will be digital for which be very grateful . Okay, because when you get to start building big things, the laws of physics get in the way of what you'd like to do big time. So myself and John Richardson, we sat down and we talked about what it physically had to do . How big would it be, you know, and worked it out? Then we just had to figure out, okay, we need a tail section because we have to be able to drag that through the set. And then we mounted the same rig we'd used for Aragog, this massive seasaweed thing, and then we mount ed it all up on this basically machine. It was made of step ladders. The thing I remember was John Richardson looking at it. And this is a guy who, you know, he sunk the Titanic, he blew it, he blown up everything, you know? And he just looked, he said , I think that might be under engineered, you know. And I said, Why? He said, Because I think it's bending . Oh no. And this thing's on a track. We've got Martin Bayfield because he was there and he was huge and he could push this thing . And we stood there and we realized what we were doing was taking a thing that weighed over a ton lined with sharp plastic teeth and we were pushing it down a ramp at a twelve year old, thirteen year old boy armed with a plastic sword . And if we didn't manage to stop it, we were just going to push him straight through the wall of the set . And I mean, he loved it. You know, that was what kid wouldn't you know, he had a great time with it. It needed a very big team to do it, but it was one of those things where you had a perfect combo of digital effects, practical effects , edited really well , shot in a complementary way for the different processes. So you get a great sequence out of it. It's cool. I mean, it is one of the best sequences. I love it so much and it is still terrifying to this day , which I think is so much down to the practicality of it. And finally, because Harry Potter has had such a lasting cultural impact, how do you reflect now on your role with bringing so much of the magic to life for so many people. I knew at the time when I read the first book that if they were going to make a movie out of this, I would love to be involved because the story was just so fab and there were so many lovely things to make. When I got involved in it and we were finishing the first one and suddenly they're going to shoot the second one. You realized this isn't just a successful book. This is going to build into something very big and the momentum is not going to stop. But at the time there was this sense, you know, I might never work on anything quite as special as this again. And I've worked on some love ly movies both before and afterwards and some of them very special to me indeed . But there was something about the post thing where you had a sense that almost sort of cinematic history was happening. This was different. This was something that was going to stand the test of time. You know, it was a unique moment in my career and in the career of lots of people. I had ten years to train people to do makeup effect s to a certain level . Most of whom are now running their own shows out there. We had a training ground for ten years that was just fantastic and every department had that . It helped the industry dramatically in my view. Nick Dubman, thank you so much for joining us. You've been an absolute dream. Thank you. It's a pleasure. It's time for some trivia. You ready? I'm ready. Okay . This is a really easy one. Apart from Gildeway Lockard, which Hogwarts staff members do we see for the first time in Chamber of Secrets? There's Professor Sprout. Yes. Give you half a point for that. Half a point . Not even ten points Oh my gosh, who's the second one? Not necessarily a teacher, but a staff member. Mr. Filch? No, he was there. He was there in the beginning. He was there. It was Madame Pompfrey . Oh my God, you're right . I thought she was in the first one. She was not you're right. She has to prime Minister Skiner . Okay. Yeah, Sky Grow, which I am keeping handy if ever I go to Hogwarts 'cause I do not want to lose my bones. Okay, what scene made Daniel and Rupert completely crack up between takes and actually Rupert I think got told off by Chris Columbus? Oh quite a lot for this. Was it A prank involving a magical creature ? Was it Bris Columbus throwing them off with unexpected cues? Or was it C shooting the bathroom scene with moaning Myrtle? The bathroom scene with Moon It was I can't imagine just like having Shelley Henderson there like screaming in your face Yeah, she's I don't think I would have been able to keep a straight face she's so funny enough to do Yeah agree, I agree and also just being in a bathroom like it's just kind of Harry hears the disembodied voice of the Basilisk twice in the film. Where is he the first time he hears it? Lockhart's office? Yes. Yeah. In detention with Lockhart. That's right, signing his place mail, yeah. So vain. What is the first bell that Lockhart tries on the cornish pixies? Before demonstrating that he should not, in fact, be teaching . What a horrible thing to also do to students to like let a cage loose a cornish pizza. I'm going to mess this up the first time I think. So pesky pisky pesture nomi? Oh my god, you nailed that. Thank you . That was very good. I don't know if I could say it's sounding cool, but yeah, it was that. And I remember it 'cause again, Nomi's like a nickname of mine, so peasant Nomi. Really, really good. I'm so impressed. I could never even try and utter that to be hon . After taking the polyjuice potent, who does Ron have the pleasure of turning into? Oh, crab. It is crab . Well done. Thank you. Almost one hundred percent. Except for yeah, it was missing. I can't believe I love Poppy. Like I think she's so adorable, even though she's got she can be stern. Yeah, I think I like her character. Like all of them actually. Yeah, yeah.. Yeah. Agreed And especially if you have, I like that she tells Draco off. I know I'm complaining. Yeah, she's just like grow up. All right, I'm gonna give you fifteen points for Hufflepath. Oh, thank you. I just throw them out randomly. I should just do a double dirt and just give me like if any of you out there would like to try your hand at trivia, you can visit Harry Potter. com forward slash quiz to test your knowledge and see if you can best Naomi . And as if by magic, the troll full of sweets has appeared. So before we go, I want to reward your wildest theory with the sweetest of treats from the trolley. Well, it's pretty wild. Go on. All right. So we don't know how Harry , you know, just by luck, he knew to stab the diary at the end . And there's no way to explain that. So in my mind, this is just a crazy fan like wild theory that I've come up with. Okay , that when Harry's mother sacrificed herself for him , she imbued him with luck and thereby he's lucky just naturally. Wait, so you're saying that Harry has got some sort of like Felix Felic justia run'nings through his veins and that's why he knows how to do certain things. Or not that he knows, but that the exact right thing happens. Okay, so where do you like where does instinct come in all of this? Of just like natural instinct because I feel like the sword is obviously like buried in the basilisk's head so he can't use that. He has something sharp. It's almost like he knows that Redd has come from this diary. He knows that he's been like imbuing it with ink. So he kind of he kind of instinctually knows he's been feeding it and one way to destroy something you're feeding is to literally kind of stab it. Stab it, tear it apart. Yeah, which he does. I think inst itin'cts. I don't know I mean, it's not I didn't say it was a perfect theory . But I really like the idea of it. Like it's love and love and a kind of form of protection. Yes. But yeah , look interesting. I just feel like there are so many instances where Harry is so unlucky. That's true. He gets lucky, but then he also gets extremely lucky . So there's it's a balance. I would like to see further evidence. I'm not gonna dismiss it out of hand. Okay, and for that, I will reward you with something sweet of the trolley. What would you like? Chocolate frog. Oh yeah. They are incredible. Help yourself. Thank you. Can I tell you mine? Yeah, absolutely. I want to hear. this is more a fan theory and I've heard this like in several places and again it relates to the Basilisk Fang . When Harry was stabbed with the Basilisk Fang, should that not have destroyed the Horcrux within him? We know that Harry is a horcrux. Yeah , and we know that batilisk fangs destroy Horcruxes Right. And we know that the Phoenix tears kind of save Harry's physical body , but also would it not have just destroyed the whole crocs within him? Would it maybe because it was attached to the serpent at that point? No, 'cause it has his poison . It's still like he was gonna die . He was gonna die. Yeah, right? Yeah, I think you're right. The Horcrux should have right, died then. Yeah. Unless when it healed him, it healed healed the Horcrux. The Horcrux. Yeah. Very possibly. Wait, so Fawkes could have just like killed one of the Horcruxes by just letting perhaps put a die. Maybe. That's quite a dark theory. Very dark. Yeah. All right, so what are you gonna pick from the trolley? I really want to try the fudge flies. There's something that really grosses me out about them. Speaking about, I mean, bugs and all those things are a huge part of the film so it's very good. Combridge would choose these . But yeah, I'm gonna go for a fudge fly. Lovely. Wow, cheers. Cheers. Cheers . Yours would eat mine. Oh yeah, I would . Thank you, Trolley. You've done your job. Everness go. So that's Harry Potter in the Chamber of Secrets, a film that starts with Dobby and ends with Dobby. Yeah, bless him. We love him. He deserves it. Namie, thank you so much for joining me to look back at all of the hidden corridors and secret chambers of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. Oh my gosh, it was so much fun. I love going back to that world. I'll do it anytime. Up next in our series, we revisit Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, where I'll be joined by entertainment journalist and filmmaker Laur Sharmer. We'll meet up with Harry for the start of third year as his past comes knocking and the clock starts spinning out of cont rol. Join us on our film by film Look Back through the series and re watch every Harry Potter film on HBO Max . In the meantime, we want to hear from you . Share your thoughts and keep up with the latest from us on social media at Harry Potter. As we make our way through the series, we'll be checking the comments to dissect your burning questions and your hottest takes. Until then, keep an eye on the time and make sure you bring fare for the night bus . Bye, see you next time You don't think he comes to Hogwarts , do you? Demanders at every entrance. Demanders. He's already slipped past the months, hasn't he? Who's to say he won't do it again? That's right . Black could be anywhere. It's like trying to catch smoke . Like trying to catch smoke with your bare hands . Harry Potter, the official film podcast is produced by HBO Max, in partnership with Pod People. This podcast is hosted by me, Rihna Dylan. Our head writer and lead producer is Angela Paladino and our associate producer Emily is Mansfield. Our line producer and production manager is Hannah Pedison, casting by Brianna Freypart. Production design done by Liz Klakowski and her team Kevin Fallon, Marcel Banks, Jeff Cross and Am, elia Casarez. Our technical director is In San Juan, along with camera operator Nick Gregorio. Her makeup by Allie Elizabeth. Production assistance by Sam Sanders the Fourth. 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