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When I booked my guest today, I thought we were going to talk about fashion trends, how they come and go, maybe a little bit about how inherently they get tangled up with social economics and historical events Fashion, after all, is what my guest is best known for Then this happens You know, after nine years of being in this industry and everything you could ask me about fashion, I've answered probably ten times. And so I know that there's so much more interesting stuff that we can talk about Clothes Yo, I felt this deeply In fact, if I had like a nickel for every time I met someone and all they wanted to do was talk about my two years working at the White House or making three Harald and Kamar movies, I well, I'd probably be financing the next Harald and Kamar movie What at that I'm like al about whenever the F you want, I will always go there So go there. we did My guest today is Emmy awward winning TV host, fashion designer, and entrepreneur and France. He's known for his ten years as a fashion expert on Netflix's quQeer Eye. He's done makeovers for Tina Feay, Amy Pohler. Davidson, John Malaney. He co hosts the Netflix competition series, Next in Fashion. He recently returned for season two of Dli Boys and has a new series on YouTube called Honorable Gayse Before being in front of the camera, Tan owned and operated his own fashion company Kingdom and state in Utah until he sold it in twenty sixteen Now despite his reputation, I was honestly, I was both relieved and refreshed that Tan wanted to talk about anythingything but fashion 'cause here's what happened our chat basically evolved into a very candid conversation about family, about what it's like to be typecast either as an actor or as a creative How we think outside the box, what we each want to do next. and about what Tan has done so far So stick around Here, we go Again Again Again. Hey, I'm Calpen and this is Here We Go Again, a show that takes today's trends and headlines and asks Why does history keep repeating itself Here, we go This is an IiHart podcast Guaranteed human If you love audiob books or you just really love a great story, I want to tell you about my other podcast, Earsay, the Audible and IHart Audiobook Club Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks from Audible. Sci fi, comedy, Romance, thrillers, You name it No reading required Just listening Becauseuse let's be honest, having a great story read to you is kind of next level Check out your say on the iHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Fonatics Fest NYC returns to the Jabbit Center july sixteenth through the nineteenth for the biggest sports event weekend of the summer. 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Full terms and wagering requirements at horseshoe onnlinecasino dot com slash promos If you or someone you know is a gambling problem, call one eight hundred gambler And When it comes to looking your best, Beachbum tanning does it better. Beeachbum delivers advanced sun and spray tanning, luxury skincare, and an elevated salon experience designed around you. It's why so many guests trust Beachbum for flawless color and real confidence. And now Beachbum is expanding M' services to many locations, with red light theraapy and infrared sauna, with more on the way, Rcharge your body, refresh your skin, reset your day. Beachbum isn't just tanning. It's full spectrum wellness. Visit beachbum dot com to find a location near you Hello Hey Hi, I'm sorry for the delay Not at all. How are you? I'm very well. I do hate being late. I need to just tell Hello everyone. My name is Tan Franz. You might know me from the likes of Queer Eye or Nex in Fashion. I'm a host, I'm a designer, I'm an author, I'm an actor, and I'm a producer Okay Wait, so this is this is fascinating. So why don't you what's the what do you like to talk about and then what's the reason to of I don't want to call it stepping away from talking about fashion, but yeah, like you said, you've talked about it for a long time So I talk I will talk about anything.m I'm sure if you've ever heard me speak anywhere I'm an open book I don't have Anything that's really an off top. I mean, sexual stuff,'s that's hyberate and how actually I've got two sexual stuff, because I always find it to be the lowest hanging fruit. Yeah And then religion, I just don't love talk. I think it's a personal practice for everybody. But other than that, I'm like, talk about whatever the F you want, I will always go there But I try not talk about fashion too much anymore because it's the go to and I've done it for nine years Also, As much as I love Fashion, I love fashion. Yeah I love it for myself. I don't love giving opinion, even though I know so anyone who doesn't know what I do. I used to be on Queer. It ended this year. I do a show called Nxt of Fashion that ended a couple of years ago. And so I've done the fashion thing for so long And I really like people to know I' so much more than just that. Yeah, I can talk about anything for days Fashion is the thing I care about the least for other people. I care about it for myself. So that's why as an industry or a topic I think, gosh boring thing to talk about personally. You seem like, by the way that you that was a very respectful and elegant way of describing things. My eye roll version of this is, you know, fifteen years ago, I took a two two and a half years sabbatical from acting to work in the Obama White House, and I loved it and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I am an actor first and foremost. Yeah. And that's what I do. And I love writing and producing and that art form is exactly who I am. Yes, I took this break But there are still people who are like, all anybody wants to talk about is so can we talk about the Obama White House? And like we can, but A, I've said everything there is to possibly say about it. B, I was only there for two and a half years. like you should talk to somebody who's there all eight years To me, it's just the least interesting thing and I get that it's interesting to other people, but but I have this like anxiety when it whenever it's asked and I feel like you you seem to be very put together in your response to where you are and what you, you know Yeah, where you're taking things Yeah, and I'd like to be really upfront. I always say, look, we can talk about fashion if you want. if that's what you' really desperately passionate about, but if that's not the thing you're desperately passionate about What are you passionate about? We'll talk about that because I'll have an opinion on it Yes, I know, I feel this so deeply and I also I don't know about you. I feel Even actually maybe it's the counterxample of the White House story where the White House story is just people only want to talk about that. And I feel like, well, I want to I want to talk to you about film too. Yeah And if the only film stuff they want to talk about is something else from twenty years ago, I'm like, guys, I promise I've done all the stuff that I'm very proud of now Yeah And can I goush about that for a second? I know this is your podcast and your interview. Can we talk about the industry or industry sorry industry show industry? Yeah. Yeah, dude. It's one of my favorite shows. I'm gonna add some light. It's one of my favorite shows. Thank you. Oh my God, I love it so much and it was such a surprise to see you, wait. I had no idea you were coming quite honestly. And so to see you entered the room I was like, Oh shit, what's he doing here? Wild. Thank you Wild. I was a fan of that show as well So Mickey and Conrad were the two show creators They basically they called and said there's this part on this show and my agent calls me and says, you have to do this. And I was like, well, obviously I have to do it. And I said yes without knowing much about the character. I would that I would. Yeah. And I kind of was like, do I have to take my clothes off because there's a lot of very gratuitous Yeah.at a lot of that. I'm like I guess I'll have to if I do, but I'm saying yes anyway. Again for this show, what do you know whatever you want me to do? Yeah I don't take my clothes up on camera. but for this show Im like, yeah, I take for that. Right is an honor. Yeah, I agree. And then the writing, I mean, you've seen the episodes, so the writing is insane So I watched it the first week it came out And I was obsessed because the writing is just so dir It's just dirtier. It's so It's got such a singular viewpoint that is so British. And it is so perfectly Britishly written where I know those people, even though they're crazy, I know a version of every one of those characters. That's how succinct they are with their writing And I'll just I just let me just re giveive the flowers to the whole industry team. I mean, I'm only in those three episodes, but they It was The writing is incredible. that cast is phenomenal. Yeah. the whole the production team, everybody at HBO. I know I feel like I'm I'm making a speech, but it was the most challenging thing arrtistically that I've worked on in eight years, I would say. and I loved it for that reason. Yeah. Like you really had to put in the work and It just it was I love a good challenge. It was a version of you I I didn't expect didn't know you could be that And that's no shade to you. just I've never seen that version of you before. It was it was so nice to see you do something so unexpected. Thank you. I'll I will just admit a spoiler here. So if you are planning on watching the season, you might want to just fast forward sixty seconds or something. But my favorite scene in that is in that fifth episode or whatever maybe it's the third something, but when I'm in the strip club So my character is in this strip club in Miami clearly coked out of his mind and drunk and He's getting a lap dance and taking a business call. And when we planned out that scene, thankfully, the woman who was cast as the as the dancer in the strip club works in the club. like we shot in a real club. Wow. So they have intimacy coordinators now, as you know and back in the day we didn't. So that was really lovely. So there's a woman who's the intimacy coordinator and she sits us both down and we talk about the mechanics of the scene And I said, honestly, I would love your expertise because you do this type of work in real life If I just walked in and was clearly a scumbag and cooked up and drunk, respectful within certain parameters and gave you ten thousand pounds Whatever you would do when you took me back to the private room, you should do And the intimacy coordinator is like, so she can touch you, whereerever. I'm like, whereerever. Wherever You don't have to tell me just because And then it made it easier because really the focus of what I'm doing is the phone call Yeah. And then she drives the laugh dance and the strroll and then the rest of it just happens organically. But so it's things like that. likeike when do you ever get to work on something that's Yeah. It's dynamic in that way. you know Yeah, gosh, so impressive. So that was my secondgment though to. This is maybe gonna to sound ridiculous becausecause have nothing to do with the show, but I amm so proud of Dellli Bys Yeah I'm so proud that it exists and that it's F and funny and gritty and so well done and like all the touch points You're incredible in it. Oh that's so nice D I'm sure you've talked about it a ton, but did you know those guys before or how did it how did that come around You know what? It's funny, I did a press off for Delly Boys, but the questions are always about clothes. Oh, that's funny. I'll just ask you about religion and sex then.. No, could you do me a favor and asking me what I thought of Zubert's wardrobe? becausecause that's always the question I get. I'm like I don't care about his wardrobe I wore something that was put on me. Anyway, so I did not know Saga and Aet before Before I started shooting, I met Saga wants a party and Oh my God, he was so lovely. This boy just ran across the room. so excited to fo him and He was like, I can't believe you're here ve been dying to meet you. My family's obsessed. I'm like, oh, that's so nice. He was just the most lovely boy And then when I knew I was going to get to work with them, I was so happy because I just you get nervous going on to any new set thinking, I just hope they treat me nicely. Yeah. I'll do the work. I will make sure I know my lines or even if it's not a scripted thing, I will make sure I'm prepared. I just want to make sure that people treat me kindly so I feel like I'm welcome because it does feel like the first day of school. it really does feel like the first day of school But I did not bor an out. We met an Emm's party a Netflix Emmy's party eight years ago. It was my first it was my first year of being an entertainer And and we fell in love. and then we saw each other at a few parties and then she asked me if I'd be willing to audition for a role no, but not audition. Would I be willing to guest on the show? And I was meant to have one line. I don't remember what it was, but I was meant to have one simple line And I think they accidentally sent me the wrong script a character actor Zuh and it was this straight gangster killer who was going to have a fight scene with her. And so I did the soft tape my agents, I've an acting agent, my agent was like, Are you sure this is the right script? It was meant to just be online? You were't ever meant to audition And I was like, yeah, I don't know what it is, but sure I'll I'll Do do the soft tape They got the self taap, they like, oh, this must have been a mistake. we weren't this wasn't he wasn't meant to be aud Dney team with his job, but he did a good job. So if he's willing to come and meet with the Disney team would be interested Matt with the Disney team And they said, lookook, no one's ever going to believe that you're Brances like you're so known as Tan Brantz, who' sunshine Gay boy, then no one's going to believe that you're the straight killer They ended up giving me the job once they saw me do it in real life and they're like, o you can take the direction. Well, let's give you the job. And then M and Por and I became really close. We worked really close together for a week on that show. We did stunt training every day and that's when we became super tight. That was like two and a half years ago makes me very happy. She's a wonderful person. Yeah I don't know if you feel this way, Cal. I know that I'm very soable and some people aren't as extroverted as I am. I know I'm an extrovert. Whenever I meet a South Asian in our industry, somebody who whose work I know and therefore they're probably at one of those bigger events so therefore they come over and they talk to me and we connect on what they do, what I do become pretty good friends. I've got a pretty wide circle of South Asian friends now Indiaian Pakistan, Bangladesh, it doesn't matter. just South Asian in general. They've become some of my greatest supporters and vice versa. I feel that way too, and that was obviously not always the case. Like N none of us grew up with any of that or whatever. and it's kind of like the There's, you know I guess it's the Brown Iilluminati I guess we can acknowledge that that may be a real thing. But I say no, no, no. I I need to see this. Yeah. You're Indian right now, Pakistani. Yeah, India. I don't know. How conspiracy theory your family are Yeah. but mine They're not regular conspiracy theors, but the only conspiracy theory that they have is that the only way one can become famous is by joining the Illuminati. And they had they've been talking about this for decades In word, I got quQeerye My family truly had to sit me down and say, We need to make sure Are you so Muslim or did you join the Iuminati? I What do you What is that? You bunch of videidios? Why do you think that is? Be no, I don't I don't even know what it is and secondly And they said, but you're protesting like famous people protest. I'm like, Yeah Yeahah because they don't know what it is. I think it's bullshit. I don't know what it is, but I think it's made up, right? As far as I know, I mean, I obviously was using it in a jokey. I know way whichich is the only way that I've ever seen a because my people believe it, people Wow Yeah, so they were I mean, I fucked with them for a while and I'm like, yeah, I did. I am definitely with the Illuminati, but look at all these perks Does the family have any other conspiracy theories? Because I didn't think you were gonna go with Illuminati as the conspiracy theory. I thought it was gonna to be some light. Tudo I would love to say that they have like the basic ones, but that would worry me even more. so I guess. I would love for them to be like, o actually there is one That is so ludicrous. It's not my immediate family. So I've got a very large family in England P. So I'm the only one that moved to America. My family iss Pakistani. To be fair, I mean, this is the case for everybody, I guess fromom that part of the world. but my mum's parents came from India India before partition. So kind of India and Pakistani Anyway, but now we identify a spike as any. We are all they're all in the UK. There's like one hundred and fifty ish of us. Oh wow Oh yeah, massive. And we all live within Five minutes of each other. Wow. Wow. Okay. yeah. A lot of them live on the same street with that kind of Asia. Okay. o Okay. And this needs to be a show, but we'll talk about. Yeah. Also just for for context for the rest of this episode, I'm going to refer to us as Asian because in England, we just refer to us as Asian. N South Asia Um so We've got a big Asian family and half of them, not my immediate family, I love them. And I love my extended book the others are crazy enough to believe, and maybe it is true, maybe I'm the idiot you know when you see a plane flying by and there's a white cem trail nonsense fully believing camp trails. Fully believe in camp trails And that we're all being controlled and I'm extra controlled because I live in America.. and there's lots more cemrails right. So that kind of crazy conspiracy theory. dont they're smart people. I don't know where this came from, but this is the one thing that they're really passionate about. If you're listening to hereere We Go again, chances are you enjoy smart conversations, great stories, and maybe discovering something new along the way. That's exactly what we're doing on my other podcast, EarsSay, the Audible and IHart Audiobook Club Each episode, I'm diving into some of the most exciting new audiob books on Audible. Every from big sci fi adventures and unforgettable fiction to romcs, thrillers, and laugh out loud comedy. And I'm joined by great guests to help unpack why these stories are such great listens Because there's just something different about listening to a story When it's really good, it pulls you in. you start seeing it in your head and when it's over, you immediately want to talk about it with someone That's what he say is all about. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and IHart Audiobook club on the IHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Hey, it's Ry Reynold here from Mit Mobile. 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Full terms and wagering requirements at horseshoe onnlinecasino dot com slash promos If you or someone you know is a gambling problem, call one eight hundred gambler Does the family in London visit often? and what's your split between 'use you're in LA a lot as well, right I no, no, no. So I was. I had a home there for a while, but we seldom used it quite honestly No offense to LA people. It's just not the right fit for same You you know what, I'm reallyly gonna to pull it that dread. I feel the wor worst about myself in LA. I feel like a perfectly fine person. I don't feel necessarily confident or unconfident. Yeah Whereas when I'm in LA I feel like rol that climbed up from under the bridge and just is stumbling around town trying to make it. And I don't know how they make me feel that way at the equinox because most of them that's their job to work out equinox and find themselves doing it.'m like how are you making me feel small Yeah? Anyway. Let me just interrupt you to say that my version of that is far less eloquent And in LA, I just feel invisible Yeah, also that. Yeah. also that. Yeah. U And so I don't love being in LA. I will only go for work. But my family so when I owned a home in LA, the first time my family came to the US was like Five years ago a year after CVID yeah, five years ago and they met my husband for the first time because I just had kids of my first child. And I wanted my family to all meet my first h, so I brought them all out from the UK. So I've got there's nineteen of us, that's my siblings, their children and my momum. Wow. And so I brought them all out and they spent a week in my home like We all stayed in my home And then every year since sometimes every six or seven months, they all come and stay at my salt Lake home. Awesome. And it's amazing The teen or mini me in me is so shocked. buy that when I think about it I don't know how Asian you were raised I was raised Asian to the nth degree Like the most Asian was what I was, like more so than Pakistanis and Indians in Pakistan and India. Yeah. So in the North of England, there's a lot of South Asians And we are nineteen fifties or nineteen sixties Asians, which means we came to the UK And we never fucking changed, which no shade, no shade whatsoever, but nothing changed. likeike we are still living that life. and we will go to Pakistan and India. I go to India now every every year, which is a dream it's my favorite thing to do. And and they make fun of how backwards I am. Yeah they're right to do so, but it's all I know. This is the classic immigrant thing of like the The clock stops when the community leaves the country of origin Yeah. And so my family still live actually on my entire community. A lot of Asions in that community now. we live the north in a place called Manchester now, we used to be in a place called South Yorkshire And u And so the community was so so Asian. My life was so, so Asian. Sall the algemies at home Mosque every day, Monday to Sunday, Mosque every day We were watch Z TV we're not watching white TV. Oh yeah. and we were only watching white TV or Western TV when my parents were gone and we could sneak in an episode of Melrose's placeace. But most of the time we were just it was only Asian TV We only ate Asian food. We would every now and then have a random what my momum called English food, which was Chinese. But we were But we were all pizza, but we wereving we weren't having non Asian food ever, really? And so and we weren't hanging out with white people, We were only hanging out with people within our own family, not even friends, our own family members And so my life was the most Asian And if you had told me When I was thirteen, fourteen, thinking, shit, I know I'm gay. I don't know what the fuck I'm gonna do about this. one day My family very South Asian, but very Muslim family I meet my husband and my children and stay at my house Mind blowing.. Mind blowing. like that was impossible. That was I it would be more likely that aliens came to this planet and we accepted them than me being accepted as a gate boy. Yeah What was the acceptance process like? Was it immediate? or did it take a long time for them And I assume with nineteen of the immediate family, I assume it wasn't a straightforward process. No it took all in all it took about een years to come out I started with my sister. I find that it's always easier with the girls. And so I started with my sister when I was seventeen, my mom when I was nineteen One of my brothers when I was twenty, then my other brother, not until where I came out My my siblings in law, they didn't find out until where I came out My niece and nephews not a talker. I came out my extended family like Buraandan Didn't find out until where I came out. So it took a heck of a long time. And the reason why it took so long with my immediate family was when this is no shakepe to my sister. She didn't know how to process this. She'd never heard the word before. Again, we lived in a very insane bubble where she'd never heard of the concept of someone being gay. She'd never heard of somebody having same sex attraction. So she was like, Oh my God, okay, let's never talk that talk about that again. Thank you for telling me. Let's never ever talk about that again. And I was like, okay And that was the case with everyone until Qeueer Eye came out when they were like, we can't I guess we can't avoid it. we can't not talk about it because it's all over. It's all over the place. But yeah, it was a case of, okay, we get it, but please don't ever mention it again. And the insane thing was that I was married from twenty five and the show didn't come out until I was thirty four, so for almost ten years I never spoke about my husband. I never mentioned my partner I never I mean I told them I was getting married, but I didn't invite them to the wedding. I said, obviously, none of you will come. I know that. And so I'm just telling you today is my wedding day. I'm getting married to my partner But again, this is the only dayail I mention to him. I will not mention him again And so I didn't for another ten years just took a heck of a long time. and that might sound crazy to you or anyone listening G got to understand when when there's no context whatsoever for what you're saying, That is so jarring for a family, but I always imagined that one day they would come around, I always I always believe that I know my family well enough. They are loving kind people. They just don't understand. And I can't blame their ignorance because there was no way of them understanding. There's nothing they hadd seen or heard that would make it clear that, oh, you can be a happy person. You can live a happy, complete life And so I did the thing of I'm just going to stay in your life, but I'm not going to talk about it. and I'm going to live two very separate lives in the hopes that eventually We can there'll be some overlap and we'll figure it out A bankly it was my younger, the younger generation, my nieces and nephews who my siblings realize He's exactly the same guy We've watched it none of my family is my siblings All my mom have ever seen my shows They just don't watch Western television even now, but the younger ones did And they were like, you've got to watch. like he's not doing anything crazy. It's just he's doing actually the most positive thing I've ever seen on TV. Like he's on a really positive show. He's not I think because it was called Qeueer Eye, I think they assumed that I was club on a pole stripping like doing all that kind of stuff. Yeah which no shade to that to anyone that wants to do that, but I think that was what they imagined that my life was on this TV show. And then finally the kids were like, noah he' just Being lovely to people. we whyy are we judging him for that The compartmentalization that you describeed doesn't sound crazy to me. it actually makes perfect sense the way that you were describing it that You kind of answer this a little bit, but the real curiosity I had as you were describing that was, you know, My version of this is that A lot of our extended family not my parents and the folks who, you know I grew up with, but yeah, there's a lot of social conservatism, particularly religious conservatism in many South Asian communities And I feel like nobody's ever said this explicitly I feel like You know People were okay with me being an actor or me being a lety. politically or things like that because they could point to commercially successful movies and TV shows that I've done Yeah. And I don't think that if I was doing Theater or if I was doing something that is no less than in fact, is probably even better than if we' be honest commercially viable movie and TV stuff I just don't think the reaction would be the same And so I'm so curious for your nieces and nephews, but then even whatever they said to to the,, your siblings' generation or or your mom How much of that was tied into queer eye and the visibility and the reception of it know, interestingly enough, as opposed to referencing them because I don't really know what those conversations were. is elders within the family who we were really worried about. So obviously the concern is what are people going to say That was always the concern. It wasn't necessarily My family that we're worried about it what will people say to my family U and how will they hurt my mom with their words based on who her son is Um However, I know I am in such a privileged position because as you said, If I were in a different job. If I would just if I had my old old job, which is a fashion designer None of my elders would have accepted me. but because I was on TV somehow negated the gay thing. And so that I have I won't say because they listen to everything I do But u someome of the elders who I know for a fact would have wanted me dead, like truly would have wanted me dead. They they are so kind to me because of what I could potentially do for them Financially. Oh my gosh. Okay. Oh status. whenever my mom and I have had some wobbly moments over the last couple of years. Anyone who knows Pakistani relationships, we don't have arguments with our mothers. That is not appropriate. I've never ever argued with my mom. It' even as a teen, it's just not the way we are with our parents But I've had to say to my momum when I'm at home, at your home, I'm at home. I'm not I'm not a performer We're not bringing people over for photo shoots, like I'm just your son. and and that's how I wanted to be going forward because there was just this revolving door of extended family members or community members who wanted to come and take a picture for their great grandkids' social media because they were getting popular at school because they had a famous song call, things like that. It was driving us crazy and so over the last couple of trips that I've been home have like have said, I won't give you notice. you will find out the dinner the night before and there will be no guests that attend My siblings will come My niece nepws will come, but there's no random photo shoots I know that none of that would have happened if I wasn't this version of me as a gay man, it would have been your son's gay. he's out How do you I'm asking this as my own personal therapy session, How do you who Uh figure out Oes who to do all of that because as you said they're clearly taking advantage of something for their own personal gain versus The ones who are genuinely proud of you and don't know how to express it other than can we take a photo together know If it Here's how I reconcile it. It's not that I don't care to figure out whose intentions are right Instead, so two of my extended family members have come out since I came out Oh wow, great becausecause they've seen the response I got didnn't go well for either of them until I intervened And so the only thing I care about is how they are treated now because I'm in a privileged position to be able to say to my uncles You you're treating me like I'm a fucking god Every time I come over, you buy me a tie You want to do my Davat, like you you really want to treat it like a like Your new buhu is here Dal. As soon as it's your kid who's telling you that they're gay, They're a problem and you're really worried about it. And so the way I reconcile it is I don't care what reason you're loving me now As long as I have the power to save You're a con D And I've spoken quite frankly to one of my uncles and called him a con, which I never would have typically done. I would never speak to an arder like that, but you'd been so disrespectful to his son and kicked his son out And I said, you fucking con, you are nice to me. You bring your grandchildren to take photos with me. And even though I'm a gay man and you said, you love me regardless and how much you love my mom, it doesn't matter that you're gay, But then we still love you so much. No bitch, you love my money Yeah. And you so if you want to continue to stay in my life You will treat your son nicely because he's the same as me. He just doesn't have the money or the fame. Good for you, man. What did he say? What was the reaction He cry like it was emotional. He was like, I didn't see it that way. You're absolutely right. If I could treat you beautifully what I don't know why I couldn't do it. I was just so worried about the shame of the community. what will they say? I said You're showing my photo weing you together to all those people who are mocking you for your son Like what are you talking about? You will go back to those people and say Now I'm going to show you a picture of me and my son. My son is gay. Why are you treating it differently to how you see me and this famous person U And so he was ready both of them realize what I was saying, I don't think they would have ever thought it themselves. And their kids, I think I've tried to say before I intervene, say, But you're so nice to Tent. Youve celebrated Tent. You made it use wrote letters to make it clear You didnt never needed to worry. We always loved you. Really? I'd never I hadn't seen you for years. Yeah. didid not Does your husband go with you now on these trips in the kids? He's been twice to England. So twice since we've had children And these relatives C and visit my white husband. Great Yeah. I He's amazing. It's amazing. But I also think go fuck yourselves, you've got gay kids, you better welcome their whiteers or their partners. the way I see it is as long as you're showing love and support, that encourages the others who have been hiding fears and I know that there are others. We all know family members within our South Asian communities as much as Asians believe we don't have gays in our community Oh, of course. foollow up. follow up As as long as it enncourages them to find the strength to be themselves. I don't really care that much whether you love me because of my money family member or because you actually are proud of me As long as your kids see that you're opening your hearts to me If you're listening to Here We Go again, chances are you enjoy smart conversations, great stories, and maybe discovering something new along the way That's exactly what we're doing on my other podcast, EarsSay, the Audible and IHart Audiobook Club Each episode, I'm diving into some of the most exciting new audiobooks on Audible. E from big sci fi adventures and unforgettable fiction to romcs, thrillers, and laugh out loud comedy. And I'm joined by great guests to help unpack why these stories are such great listens Because there's just something different about listening to a story When it's really good, it pulls you in. 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Visit beachbum dot com to find a location near you produce a play called the P worord in London. Can we talk about that? I'm very curious about it Have you ever done theatkout? Oh, you did all wereough, of course. I have not. I mean, I have come close to doing bunch and have not yet pulled the trigger and I really want. I want to be really forthright. There is a difference between a producer for TV movie in comparison to theater shows. Okay You can be a regular producer like you would for a TV show where I want to explain to the audience just so they understand the difference. A producer can be can wear many hats but In TV and movies, it's usually the people who help bring that project to life. They help craft what the story is, they've all find the writers, they will all help find the directors. They will help cast, they will help make sure you've got your right location, they'll make sure the wardrobe person is hired, they'll make sure you've got PAite, all that stuff is a producer's job. You've had many different kinds producers, but that's what producers do And that's probably what they also do for the there. but for theatre you also have producers who are Vanity prodroucers and I' am a vanity P prodducer. I haven't help build a show But what they asked if I would join as a producer and I said, yeah, it's for no pay I just want to spread the word. So when you are part of part of something You then People are more likely to it' so lame to say but, people are more likely to go and watch something if there's somebody's name attached that they've heid. Yeah, that's not lame man's business Yeah. And so they said, look, would you lend an name to this? so they sent me this script and I thought it was incredible. And it already had an initial run and it won an Olivier Award, which is kind of like our version of the Tonys in the UK And so it was going to have a second run at the Bush theatre in London And so they asked if I would join and I said, ye, absolutely. so I went and did a press tour to try and promote this play because I think the mov sorry, the story is so important is to Pakistanis In England, one of them is from England bor and raised. the other one has come to England as an immigrant and how wildly different their experiences are of being game in in England. onene of them was gay in Pakistan and how hard it is for him in the UK and one of them born and raised in the UK and how hard it is as an Asian man in the UK trying to date the story couldn't feel more appropriate for somebody like me. God I cry so much It's so fun It's such a funny show. It's a comedy show. But it also makes you cry and it also really makes you think and a lot of it is about immigration. and it doesn't sound sexy. I know it doesn't sound funn, but it is, they make it really funny. It's one of the most beautiful pieces of work I've ever seen and I'm so grateful that I'm part of it. Congratulations. How long is the run?