The Future of Democratic Leadership

Okay. special guest on the podcast Senator Chris Murph of Connicut is joing us today on. He. Thank you. Thanks for being. Thanks for having me guys. Here in California, you have a brand new book out now Crisis of the common goodood is the book. Let me ask you a question We're gonna to get into some of the stuff in the book, but before we get into all of that How Are you writing a book? There's so much for you to do in the Senate. What are you writing a book for, man? Y like, y'all need to be getting stuff done for us. Why are you why a book? Because I think if we want to get stuff done for people, we have to understand how serious the problem is. and I do worry that you know, Trump dominates every inch of our discussion and we're so focused on these elections. and yes, I want to beat them But there's a deeper rot in this country that we have to talk about And I think everybody knows that that you know, we're lonelier than ever before. We feel powerless in our lives Nobody really has a language with which to sort of access that conversation and they don't know what to do about it. So yeah, I think the task is a lot bigger than just stopping Trump's legislative agenda, beating him at the polls. I think we've got a spiritual mission that we have to engage in. and I wrote the book because I worry that There's almost too much focus on Trump and on the elections You said that we've always kind of like known that some of this is here, right? Like it's been here. you talk about Trump is a symptom. He's not right thing It didn't start with him. If we've known this for years and I'm just going to say particularly Democrats willll talk about, then why were we not on top of it. If we knew that like Trump or anybody like a Trump could be a symptom Why are we just not responding to it? and why were we not on top of it I think the simplest answer is money. So this book talks about six cults, like these sets of false ideas that we've come to believe are true, but are not really true. And they all accrue to the benefit of a very small number of people at the sort of top of the economy and top of the political pyramid And the reason that we have structured an economy and a culture that helps a very small number of people is because our politics are corrupt and they're corrupt on the right and the left That's the other thing I book is about is it's not just about Trump's corruption. We focus on his corruption because it's new and it's bananas. it does threaten the Republic But the whole politics has been captured. by very powerful people, corporations that want no changes in the way that they're regulated. And that's an issue on the left and the right. So I think that's why you know we have not as Democrats really sought to confront a lot of these cultts in the past I hear a lot of politicians saying that. A lot of people in politics say that. But when you start to drill down on the issues that's se identify that you always get some pushback. like we would say, hey U, I give you an example. like you'd say there's corruption on the left and the right and and I'm like, okay, cool. Well then let's be robust for single payer healthcare for Medicare for all. things that eliminate the corporate influence on our lives. And you can't get people you get people to say that. I' talk about you specifically, I'm just talking about a a method of thinking here, but you can't get people to get behind the policy that would trim away some of the cancer out of our politics Is that indicative of being served a lip service or Is this rot so deep that it can't be exciseive Yeah, I think that the corruption of our economy is downstream of the corruption of our politics. So the reason you are not getting know accountability for insurance companies or drug companies, the reason you're not getting single payer health carere is because they have captured our politics. They put a ton of money into our politics on the left and the right But I do think that there are these broader false belief systems that cause people to maybe maybe Uh be less enthusiastic than we would like for these brand new systems. So the first chapter in the book is the cult of prorophet. And we've just come to believe onn the right and the left good company. is a company that makes a profit period stop, right? They can abuse their workers, they can hollow out the community they live in. They can create a product with very little social value, but as long as they make a profit, they're a good company. And so in our health carere economy, you, the good companies are the companies that are treating us terribly that are denying us medicines just because they make a profit. We have to confront that entire cult system, this idea that we can't judge an economy based on anything other than how much profit they make, we could. And if we did that, I think we'd think very differently about how to structure the healthcare system. Would you describe yourself as a capitalist So if you are a capitalist and you believe in capitalism, I'm assuming Yes me Okay. So then How are you going divorce yourself from those two ideals? Meaning that in capitalism, anything that makes a profit is a good Yeah, so I think the conception today is that there's only two choices. a profit obsessed market fundamentalism. and socialism. I make the argument in this book that there is such thing as common good capitalism. Now I get it, like there's a lot of people who think that's That's bullshit, right Yeah. Yeah, but can't But why can't you have a floor of benefits for workers, right? You show up into the workforce and you're getting paid twenty five dollars an hour, guaranteed. You have a robust pension benefit and a health care benefit from the day you start. inside the healthcare system, we don't leave the private sector to do it by themselves. we give everybody the option to buy into a public product. We break up concentrated corporate power everywhere every day. We don't let companies get so big that one guy, one board of directors sets the rules of our culture through massive technological products that we're all addicted to. I do think that there is a way to raise the floor for workers, to make them feel more powerful break down concentrated corporate power so that economic power is local, right? The people who own the companies that matter to you live in your community in a way where capitalism can work. And you know that people for work people for people, right? And I think the entire U I think the entire debate right now is not really between right and left anymore. It's between worker power and corporate power. And I don't think that you need to go all the way to a socialist democracy in order to dramatically lift up power that people should feel as workers in this country? I think it feels like you have to because if it is, so we talk about how rotten it is and how deep it is, it almost feels like in order for it to work, you almost have to go to the other extreme. That's what I think sometimes it feels like that in the reaction and the emotion that you're getting from people in such a way. You identify six cults You talked about profit, technology, consumption, corruption Credentialism and globalism. Which one do you think has had the most damage to the American community So it's the first and the last chapter. The first chapter is the cult of profit. Again, I just believe that you can measure the value of an economy differently than how much money you're extracting out of workers and out of communities. I think the cult of profit and kind of the cult of efficiency, which is a twin of the cult of profit, the idea that everything should be maximized for profit's sake is probably the most serious. But everything is downstream of the cult of corruption. Because our politics have been bought, you can't make any changes in the way that the economy is structured. You can't regulate the technology companies. It's hard to take on the cult of profit, the cult of technology even the culture of credentialism without taking on that normalization of corruption in our politics. And that's why I say in the book, this book is not really about political analysis or party analysis, but I say like the Democratic partarty should get back to a place where its number one issue is getting big money, billionaire money, anonymous money out of politics. because I don't think you can do anything else if you don't fix that problem first. When I look at the cults and I see, you know, like and you read the book and you see, you know how you discuss them, I can't help but think Where does racism fit in all of this becausecause that's a part of it, too. And where we sit right now in our society and we see some of the policies and issues that are coming out of this administration in particular ask whereere does racism fit in that? Yeah, I mean, ultimately, this book is a book about what brings you meaning and purpose in life. and I argue that that comes primarily from the idea that you have power. in your life And so the cult of profit steals power from you because you work harder and you don't get ahead the entire system of racial oppression in this country from the classroom to the criminal justice system all about robbing black people of power and agency. My first book is really about this question I wrote a book called The Violence Inide us and a lot of that is how violence has been used as the primary means of oppression. But if you want to build a society in which people wake up every day and feel like Their actions result in their situation, their standard of living getting better. It's not just about the cult of profit, ultimately. it's about the systems of racial oppression and suppression that are still very real today. This summer, Fandu is the best place to bet on goals, including equalizers. vollies. Yeah, Bters. Every goal is worth more on fand So let there be goes. New customers get up to a thousand dollars in bet reset tokens when you bet five dollars five daily. Tta one plus in present in select states, ofpt required, Refund issued as non withdrawal bonus bets that expire seven days after receivt. M minimum five dollar wage are required for five consecutive days. Max reffund two hundred dollars per day. restestrictions apply, including token expiration, seful terms at vndool dot com slash sportsbook. Gambling problem callall one hundred eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters Tromphia offers self injection or intravenous infusion from the start Trmphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self inject trmphia, proper training is required. Trymphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease, and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis, serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tmphia today. Call one eight hundred five two six seven seven thir six to learn more. or visit trmpharadio. com We you're having a lot of conversations in America about building connection, like us being connected to one another. I feel like some of the cris of connection cris for the common good us feeling connected, us feeling like we're a part of each other What's the most important thing for you in building connection, is it finding tribe or learning to coexist outside of tribe Oh, I think it's learning to co exist outside of tribbe. Tell me a little bit more about that Yes, so you know this country is a miracle, right? that we have been able to govern ourselves in a multicultural, multir racial, multil linguistic society. constantly getting better and we have peaks and valleys, but the only way this country sticks together is if you were able to build communities that cross those sets of divides. U And so, you know, this book talks about For instance, how you rebuild institutions where you are more likely to come across people that are different from you. I think labor unions are sort of as close to a panacea as you get. Historically, there's been a lot of racism in labor unions, but they are a place where you're bringing together workers across boundaries where they can find communion and where they can advance a common agenda. So the book is all about sort of a purposeful strategy to rebuild institutions, the places of gathering, downtowns, so that we aren't siloed by tribe We aren't siled by our politics. We have an opportunity to meet people that are different from us. Can I give you a fear? that I want you to take with you when you leave this room. H For someone like you who, whenever I ask somebody about Chris Murphy Their eyes light up Like even now, we ask you questions. The answers are direct and concise. You have politicians on here. I do tend to answer questions. Right So that not recommended by the political consultant class There's there's a butt coming. I'm definitely butter in U for something There's a fear for a lot of people that everything you just said is bullshit Not that you meant to bullshit but that none of that is real and that this is really what has existed in America for a long time. What has existed for America a long time is a facade of multiculturalism that was dominated by a vicious and direct a white supremacist organization, a capitalist organization has increasingly over generations. s to harvest not just Paltte but work, life and sweat from working people And the moment that we stepped into our actuality and started to litigate this in a loud and robust way that the country threatened to rip itself to shreds that the moment that we said, none of this is real. It's not real now. It's never been real always been Kind of us getting the crumbs that were left around the beers of the fatcats, now we're asking for more, and we're seeing that there's no there there A lot of people feel that way and that is why the country is actually coming apart. What do you say to those people? Okay, so let me try a theory on for you. and maybe it won't fit Um You know, I think in a in a in a culture of scarcity where we are H scrapping for crumbs that demagogues and scapegoat messages work, right? And that's about jobs that are being stolen by black people, by immigrants, the fact that gay kids and drag shows are the biggest threat to your community All of that works when you wake up every day And you feel like your neighbors are competitors, right? This is Sociologists call the scarcity mindset And so if your focus is on raising that floor, that's why I say twenty five dollarars minimum wage not seventeen. fifteen dollars minimum wage. If you're about bringing power back to workers' lives through, the expansion of collective bargaining. Does that scapegoating, right become less attractive? Are you less likely to want to explode things If you know that everybody's floor is being raised, white or Hispanic, Is there something to universally more economically powerful human beings that acts as a prophylactic against that explosion you're talking about There's only one thing that I can't get my mind around Chris And I'm going to have to try do every day. But my core belief that despite everything that you just said, that there are some people that just don't want to nig a having shit. And it doesn't matter how good they're doing. You ain't supposed to have it There were certain regions in this country that chose starvation. They chose poverty over being more integrated into the American economic system because they knew that if they did that they would have to share that wealth with black people. this is not a problem that you can solve But the reason why I want to put it in your brain is because A lot of the concepts that we're discussing capitalism U protecting workers and all of that stuff those things are going to be things to where you might have to see somebody that's black driving a nice car down your street And how do we get past some of the things that we're not supposed to talk about to understand that everyone being capitalized on All the people that are going to jail in my community where I come from Those guys were out being productive. if they weren't thrown into the carceral state to work as slaves, we would be better off And I want to I want to make sure that the people that I actually have some faith in Remember that that messaging has to exist too Yeah. And if if you look at, you know, some of the underlying reasons that we destroyed intentionally The institutions where people find community, it is all a story told through a racial lens, right? Whyy Why did public pools disappear in this country? Pub pools were a place where people found we would get in the pool they would drain the pool. R. Right exactly. So that's the reason the pool onene of the primary pools shut down was the idea that white people 're not willing to accept sitting at that pool being in the pool of black people. And so yeah, and I make I certainly acknowledge in this book that a lot of the reason that we are here today is because people didn't want to be in institutions where they had to commune with people that were different from them. And I don't know that my theory is right that if you remove that scarcity mindset, then the demagogic messages just don't have as much as much appeal. And I acknowledge that that's not and cannot be the only answer. but I think there's something to it. I think it's part of the solution. It almost feels impossible at times. and you discuss the cult of technology. You talk about that and you talk about the loneliness data and how striking it is. And I didn't even know the statistic of how we were spending sixty minutes a day with a friend and now It's twenty minutes a day. And so when you talk about connecting and reaching people, but then people aren't spending time other people outside of their tribe and they're doing it through technologies, social media or whatever it may be, so then they find the person who's most like them and that's who they connect to. And then it causes even more separation. And it's like how do we even as social media continues to get bigger and all these different platforms with podcast and whatever it may be, it almost feels like we're continuing to separateodcast What do we do? Well, we not like that. but I'm just saying there's so much of it out there that it almost feels like we're continuing to separate from one another rather than connecting to each other outside of tribes and coming together. It almost feels impossible. What would you say to that And you do discuss Yeah. I mean,en there is I mean, first of all, there's just lots of science that says virtual connection is just fundamentally different than in person connection. There's something different that happens in our brains when we are sitting with people, when we're able to touch them, smell them, right And, you know I think that's the most important thing is that you have to prevent us from getting into a world in which we think Virtual connection is a substitute for in person connection But yes, of course the algorithms are going to silo you and the algorithms are going to feed your prejudices And so if you don't have some mechanism by which control for the sort of negative spirals that will happen there. then all this technology is going to do is to feed that scapegoatating culture. Be listen we are, our biology inside tells us to stick to tribe, right? Our biology tells us to fear others. like that's That is cultural, that is environmental, but that is also biological. Pro evolutionary. It's evolutionary.. That's how you survive right as a species without fangs and horns. whereereas you just stuck close to the people you thought were your family and you just sort of guessed that everybody else was a threat. So the technology is feeding that biology, which is why I think you've got to take some really dramatic steps. like I think you have to treat that algorithm as a poison for kids and the only way that they're ever going to get a chance as adults to really understand the value of in person cononnection is to just say they can't have it until they're a certain age The technology companies obviously like that idea. this question for you cultural or political. Is this something that we teach people or would you legislate this I mean, I think it's more political than we want to believe. Okay. We made every time a new big technology came around in the last, you know seventy five years, we immediately saw regulation is a means to get the good stuff and not get the bad stuff, right? Nuclear technology, advanced medicines, even the telephone. This is the first technology that we've just like said, fuck it hands off. So to me, we have always been able to kind of moderate the rough edges of new technologies through through regulation. And I do want to bring it a little bit back to the conversation we were just having. corrosive influence of the technology has and often has a deeper impact in low income communities because you have parents that are working seventy hours. they end up relying on the technology in order to keep the kids occupied. You know in my neighborhood in the south end of Hartford, you know the parents and grandparents are really not super interested in the kids running around outside because of the threats that exist. And so the technology becomes an even deeper crut in those lower income communities. So I think we have a know an obligation to every kid, but in particular lower income kids where the technology ends up um babysitting because just that the numbers don't allow for parents to be around as much. has parts of a personal narrative and you dedicate it to your sons.. In the book, Wh did you decide to Dedicate the book to them. and what was the most uncomfortable thing that you had to put on page about yourself It's definitely not a memoir, right? saw There's not much of me in there Um So yeah, obviously, I think that if we don't take on these cults, even if you beat the Republicans in this midterm It's just not going to fit the bill. and I do think that the social media N AI are existential threats and I have no idea what job our kids are going to get if we don't figure out a way to slow the job destruction. But I also don't know what What will be left with humanity if We outsourced to the technology conversation and friendship and creativity. I just I don't know what's left for them of their soul at the end of that It's probably the last story in the book that's been the hardest one for me. So I've been talking about loneliness for four or five years And the obvious question that every like reporter asks me when they're doing a story on why Chris Murphy iss talking about loneliness is like What's your experience with loneliness And I think I was in denial for a while about how lonely this life can be because very few other people kind of understand what it's like to be in the life The last story I tell in the book is about a really lonely day for me. My wife and I just separated and I was It was Thanksgiving morning and my kids were with her down in DC and I was doing what M a lot of lonely people do. I was sitting in my house by myself that morning just scrolling on my phone And I was just getting lonelier and sadder and I finally just decided to put down the phone. Be I knew that there was this family on Thanksgiving morning that normally handed out donnuts and coffee to the homeless on the green where I live And so I went over there, and I just spent like, I don't know thirty minutes, sixty minutes helping them hand out stuff. And it was like magic, like saddest and totally lift. I was so sad that my kids weren't there, but I had a peep in my step, like walking away from having just engaged in this act of selflessness. I definitely am not somebody that like readily shares like my personal narrative and, you know, my personal hurts you know, in a political context, but I wanted to end the book with that because That was a moment where I recognized that everybody has the ability. to sort of force your way into connection It's not all up to government. So that was probably the part of story to write because I don' I don't normally weave a lot of that stuff into the way that I talk about politics. It resonates. Yeah. hopefully. We need more personal suffence. Do you think there's a specific issue with the male loneliness epidemic that you hear people talking about, like young men not being able to find connection Yes, because what's happened in the last fifty years is radical, right? I mean, for Thousands of years Men byy birth had a natural way to identify themselves and define their purpose, right? I mean you were Breadwinner, you were a protector and you had a U genetic position of primacy in the economy, the culture and the politics while the patriarchy still lives, You do not have that automatic identity any longer. You do not have that automatic sense of purpose And for young men, I think it's been catastrophic to try to figure out what is that new way that I identify myself. So you know this book talks a lot about power, right? about an economy where you as a worker feel power. Again, that's why I love talking about unions. I think that's particularly important for men because they have had rightfully automatic power taken from them. It's hard to go you know, in one generation from a way of thinking of your identity as something totally new. So if you're delivering them more economic power in their lives through higher wages or collective bargaining, or the deconstruction of corporate power I think you're feeling you're filling an immediate gap that's a very real one for young men There's some people that feel like the conversation is centering men in a way That's unfair to everyone else. We have this conversation here It seems like we're having a conversation about the male al in this epidemic, and we're sometimes using that conversation to excuse bad behavior by young men taking proper responsibility for their actions. I'm mad, I'm upset, I'm lonely, patriarchy die. What do I do now? I can't make the football team. Now I gott to go out and hurt somebody. What do you say to people that say that Yeah, I hope that's not what we're doing. and I hope that you can acknowledge the crisis that a lot of men and young men are going through without excusing their bad behavior. I worry, right that you know for the last ten years, the right has had a very easy answer to the masculinity identity crisis, which is just we're just rolling it back. We're just we're just rolling it back. We're going back fifty years, a hundred years, we're putting you back in charge And the left's answer has kind of been over it get over it. likeike you you you enjoyed this position of primacy for thousands of years and it's gone and figure it out That's one answer, but I don't think it's the responsible answer. I think you actually have to do some work part of it in the public sector give men and young men a healthier conception of Um, For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters Trmphia offers self injection or intravenous infusion from the start Trmphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self inject trmphia, proper training is required. Tmphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremvia today. Call one eight hundred five two six seven seven three six to learn more orr visit Tmfiaradio. com. All newews Sundays at nine, exclusively on AMC and AMC plus. I I st. I'm a rock star now an Rice's Imortal Universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history. Thousand of. I want millions Smider. This is the Fampireless Dot. All new Sundays at nine exclusively on AMC and AMC pllus streamed now. The masculinity What does it feel like to be a Senator right now in twenty twenty six? Because you write this book And it's pretty much diagnosing broken America And you sit in the Senate and sometimes, you know, we watch it and it feels like It's broken as well Do you feel like as you sit here? De definitely broken. would be nice. Yeah No, it's broken.'s broken. It's broken. Fine. It's broken as well. You sit in it. You're a member of it. How do you feel like As you sit here in twenty twenty six in a broken system that you feel still feel like it works and it can be fixed Well, I mean, honestly, I mean, that's that's the The answer to why I wrote the book was that I just was sitting in it and coming to the conclusion that we couldn't fix it without fixing the culture, And that we had to have a conversation about fixing the politics, getting billionaire money out of politics, all the rest, while also addressing what was broken in the culture. I guess why I keep coming back for more is that I still have seen it work. Like it's fundamentally broken, you are right. I've seen it work. So you know, after You know, the shooting and Sandy Hook, you know, my life became about gun violence and I helped build this movement for ten years And then after you'veali We had a little period of time where we were able to write a bill We wrote a bill we got it signed by the president. It had five major changes in gun laws, a lot of money for neighborhood anti violence initiatives. since we passed that bill, nobody really knows this, but gun violence rates have been coming way down, way down. like fifteen percent reductions every year. They don't know it because no one's talking about it.obody's talking about it. I's discussing the fact and I think that there's reasons why You just goddamn it triggered me. Chr B. I think one of the reasons why we're not discussing this is because in places that were scapegoated and made examples of these tremendous gun violence Gun violence issues like Chicago, like Baltimore, like New Orleans, like places like that where the violence is actually sharply dropping and declining Those places have black mres And they have constituencies made up of people who are black and are doing the interventions that are necessary to save their communities And that doesn't really look good for a lot of the mainstream media and particularly this president to put his arms around Brandon Scott, to put his arms around some of these people and go Great job This is coming down in these different blue cities. narr. There's a cultural reason why we're not talking about the fact gun violence is going down and some of this stuff is working. Yeah, I think I think that's right. And if you really try to dig into why the rates are coming down, the changes we made in gun laws They definitely mattered. But what really has happened is that mayors and community leaders have figured out how to do this anti violence programming, right? Wrapping services around kids, going to the emergency room to stop the retributive cycles of violence. It really is Um local communities that have figured out how to do this work. Now we're funding it for the first time from the federal government But yeah, I mean, obviously this country has been willing and enthusiastic about just blinding themselves to the reality of violence in black neighborhoods and in our cities. and you're probably right that our refusal to see the good news is just an extension of our refusal to see the bad news and of course, only wake up as a nation when a group of white kids in Newtown, Connecticut got shot. and someone who whose story on gun violence is rooted in that in that tragedy. I also completely understand how unacceptable it is that it was that tragedy rather than the tragedy that was happening every single day in New Haven and Hartford and Bridgeport. that decided that that turned us all into crusaders on this Um, What's your favorite icook. What your favorite comic book? Y your favorite story tale you Fantasy Land and Chris Murphy, when you're watching, like what's your favorite like superhero growing up or anything like that Oh, I mean, I'm I'm definitely like a like a Star Wars kid, right? Yeah. So I was So yeah, I was born in seventy three, right? So Star Wars comes out right at the point where you're in the middle of that. That Zeichgeist. So that's that's that's probably the biggest part of my. Okay, so Starles, I ask you a question Who do you blame for the rise of Emperor Palpatine? Do you blame the Sith Eperra Palpatines Dark Force Jedi cult. that he part of taken over or Do you blame the Jedi Yoda Mace Wind du Quygon Jin U evenven our beloved Obi Wan Kenobi for not realizing Senator Palpatine was a Sith Lord Which one do you blame Well, you've got, you know, you in in the in the broader Star Wars universe, you've got exploitation, right or at at scale, right? right happening. And so the Jedi weren't focused on the underlying dynamics, right? that give rise to someone who comes along and says, you know, just put me in charge, right? I'll fix everything, right? It's all of a sudden the Republic gets fragile and hard to maintain when the Jedi aren't paying attention to the destruction of the shared prosperity that makes a Republic possible Absolutely. So us having established that Isn't it fair that since we're living under the empire that we blame Jedi who are asleep at the whe As much as we blame the evil of Palpatine and Darth V That's when the books about. I'm just making sure. It's like we we we all Republicans and Democrats. Let us slide into a world where people are feeling shitty and lonely. powerless because we were made to believe a set of things that weren't true that really were just an excuse for a bunch of rich people to get richer. And so our culture became really fragile, which allowed for a potential empire to take root Now I got one forty off that You said recently otherwise You said recently Biden should have dropped out early Mhm. My question is Why didn't you say it thing becausecause it's stuff like that. that makes me feel like The Jedi were asleep at the wood. but they cared more about Business as usual than they did about actually defending people Yeah, I mean, it was it was a mistake, right? I think a lot of us had spent, I mean, just to be honest, like I think a lot of us had spent time with him privly where we did see a guy. So that's true. That was telling us that's true. Yeah I got that whole behind closed doors. he can do a black flip shit. You're telling us that that that that's actually. I'm not saying that he was the same guy that he was when I met him fifteen years earlier, but I'm saying that we didn't we saw different things behind R cllosed doors I think there was also for somebody like me who wanted to see kind of a more robust Populism wanted to see a president take on consolidated corporate power. He was starting to do that. And so I was, you know, I think a lot of us were just loyal to the guy because we thought he had done the right things and he had helped us pass some pretty serious legislation, including gun violence bill I make the case in this book that one of the things that's plaguing the country is tribal nature of our politics in which so many of us now define ourselves by our politics. We don't define ourselves by maybe our gender or the place we live, we define ourselves by our politics. And I think as politics becomes more of our core identity, We are less likely to to look at our leaders and ask hard questions. That's what's happening on the right. You identify yourself as MAGA. And so you're just not willing to question the leader because that would cause you to question your entire identity And I think that happened on the left as well, which is probably part of the reason that we didn't ask harder questions about whether Biden could carry the banner So then how as voters and constituents, when you make a confession like that and you're not the only one, how do we you guys then reconnect with us to build trust back in the party, back in politicians because it does feel like that loyalty wasn't just to biden and it felt like it was too an institution So how do you how do you rebuild that? How do you reconnect I mean, Part of it, I think, is just admitting you made the mistake. I do think that that's a start. Um, but second is being you know, committed to tearing down the institutions and that's just I'm not sure that our party is there. and I make this argument in the book that Um You know, in the end, as much as I don't quarterback Kamala Harris' campaign she ended the campaign with Mark Cuban and Liz Cheney, people who were very much part of establishments that let us down instead of finishing the campaign, attacking those establishments, we don't make getting billionaire in private money out of politics our number one issue because we're kind of addicted to that money too. And so I think people look at us and they say, well, if you're not proposing thingsings that are going to destroy the existing corrupt parts of the system then even if you do a couple Ma Culpas like on Joe Biden It just doesn't seem serious to me which is why I think the Democratic Party just has to be bolder in the ways that we tell people if we win power, we're going fix. the ways in which our politics are aligned to listen to only the powerful and rich people. Yeah, because then what happens is people take advantage of it and then you have Spencer Pratt running for mayor. Yeah. I heard that slight criticism of Kamala Harris' campaign. I could I could like Rachel, I'm surprised Rachel didn' get you. Can't believe you said that right in front of her face but I don't know if you know this, Chris. Kamala Harris is in a different sorority than Rachel. No. She's an AKA Rachel's a deelta So Rachel, you have to learn you're still up, but you're still a die hard I mean I mean, I'm a deelta for life. Yeah But's there's a little bit of like a them versus us. These are the things when you want for president, what you're going to do When you like when when when you run for president, I love you know what I love? That's my favorite one. What's that? Of all the lies that politicians tell. My favorite one is we've had Shapiro up here, he's going. We've had you up here, you're going We've had Ns Newsom up here. Gone Like' like he's like gone. like gone. We've had Ro up here G Why, we need to have a couple of ladies up here that going. All you guys are going. We know that you're going I'm telling you right now, when you do it Uh Just learn the Divine nine Black sororities and fraternities. Yeah, it's important Yeah, because like that'll be a way. I'm just telling you right now. That'll be a way. you come out here and you go, Yeahah, I'm sharp today I'm dressed up like a But watch all of it Godd look like a cafe screw it but like there's got to be get on if you screw it up, rightight Yeah you scre it up This is like high high risk.'er war. Just learn the names.' something else you could do come out and you could be like, hey, the government owes you fourteen trillion dollars, we're going to pay it back to you. and then that would take actually removeal I want to ask you a question. So justust off that There's a There's a thought that you are one of the bright shining stars. you ask off ALC You know the the Warnock, Georgia might have two different guys like, you know, ins. Yeah. Are we overly focused on the executive branch right now because of Donald Trump? The power that he's taking at the executive level is making everyone think that, hey, if we get somebody in there that is other than Donald Trump, that we can roll some of these things back Everyone's obsessed with who's going to run. Your name is in that we know that you're we know that you're going. You're not going to tell us right now. But Is this taking up too much of the oxygen at a time when we don't have a functional government? O hundred percent. No, one hundred percent and it is also just a function of you know how politics is covered today. I mean, people like competitions, right? They like horse races and you know, generation or two ago notot everything in the media was being driven for profit. There was a belief that you had a social obligation to cover what was important. And yes, the horse race was important, but it wasn't the only thing that was important. And so you in an old medial landscape where profit didn't drive every decision or clicks didn't drive every decision, there was more energy given to things like legislation, right?f. And there's just no room for that today because peopleeople want to know about the horse race. that's what drives dves clicks. But some of that is You know why I want to know? because I don't want twenty twenty four to happen So some of that is just fear. L we want to know those things because we want to know that we're headed in the right direction And and listen you will not, you're not going to believe me, but like I honestly don't. know what I'm going to do We love that Yeah. I don. and somebody another person who read this book said I actually think you're not running for president because if you were running for president, you would write a different book than this, right? You would have written a book about yourself Right And I wrote this kind of weedy feely book about underlying spiritual rot that's happening in the country. And I did that because I'm just worried we're not having that conversation. And so maybe the thing that felt best to me was that a couple of the people that you listed who are defefinitely running for presidents. You know, texted me after the book came out and they werere like, Listen, you know, we got to find a way to talk about this stuff. and I've read part of the book and I'm going to try to find a way to you know, use some of that language. So You know, I don't know what I'm going to do, but in the end, whoever is going to run in twenty twenty eight has to talk about politics through a spiritual lens. How does it make you feel? right? And our best communicators on the left historically, from Martin Luther King Jr. to RFK Um The original have communicated in spiritual terms how politics can lift you up, make you feel happier, more powerful feel more meaning in your lives. And we've become kind of a technocratic party in which we just talk about how this policy solution is going to lead to this additional income in your life That's not, I think how people think every day. They live life emotionally. They live life metaphysically and they want This episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Comany. Whether it's the nineteenth inning, the twelfth quarter, or the fifth and a half shift, overtime isn't going anywhere, whichich is why Duluth builds hard working gear for folks who work their butts off. Their work shirts are built for function and comfort, giving a big foam middle finger to all that's futile. And the new ultra tough noQate utility shirt is equipped with cooling and wicking tech to keep you comfortable Give no quits. shhop at a Dulh store near you or at duluthtrading. com This episode is brought to you by Nas Energy Every oce of dirt, sweat and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard fought place They're all jammed inside every can of NSA energy performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage and pedal to the metal human horsepower For the streets, go ahead, crack open a can of Nas energy and get after it on a politics that meets them there This episodes brought you by Comcast Business. Hey thought Wars Are you a small business owner Introducing Total Solutions advantage only from Comcast business, combining the largest, fastest Fiber powered network gigs speeds with equipment and security included. plus five year price look Learn more and get started for sixty dollars a month for twelve months when you add an advanced solution to a qualifying interternet package. Limitited time offer for restrictions supply. New customers only requires three hundred megabytes per second interternet. Security edge and an additional qualifying serice When you're agreement paperless billing and auto pay with bank account required, taxes and fees extetra L last question for me I know Rachel's Uh, last question. U There is a cohort of people that we talk a lot about I wonder all the time the Democrats are doing for bllack women because black women are the Democrats most loyal base. The most loyal base that they have I specifically also am concerned about what the party is offering Black men I wonder what they're doing for bllack women and what they're offering black men I increasingly hear from people who now have statistics, they have data, they have their eyes, they have their experiences And they are wondering for two or three generations of Democratic leadership Not that we people haven't gotten stuff They have They've gotten a host of legislation that actually in the sixties made them full citizens. and then after that, they got lot there's been stuff. It doesnesn't seem like there's ever been a plan addressing systemic inequality, addressing historic harm And just the full cultural adoption As Americans, I'm a fucking American people are from South Louisiana And they bled and tilt the soil so I could be sitting here talking to you And I don't feel My country or the Democratic Party or anybody else gives a shit about that I'm not from anywhere else I am from here Everything here, I don't have to ask for anything. I shouldn't have to ask for a police officer not to to address me as sir. I shouldn't have to ask to not be discriminated against by. All of that that is Butananas to me that we're still having this conversation What are you guys gonna do? Like how do we move forward? What are you offering to bllack women that vote for you ninety two percent no matter what? What are you offering to black men that want to be entrepreneur entrepreneurs and leaders in their society. What do you guys offer Well, I mean first of it, first of all, I think It is really important for us be Fiercely patriotic U in a way that explains Um ility of America to be multicultural, multilingual, multiracial, multi religious. and we have kind of ceded the patriotism narrative to the right That's a choice. and we can explain the America we want to live in with a patriotism that commands us to break down those barriers. U But one of the reasons I talk a lot about concentrated corporate power is that if you choose to have an economy that is dominated by a very small handful of companies, then you are never giving the ability for black entrepreneurs, male or female to be able to succeed. All those companies that dominate our economy today, they are run by white guys, their' boards almost all white. The only way that you are going to have real black entrepreneurship again in this country is to destroy the control that those folks have at the top We made Obviously a bunch of really good runs at civil rights reform in the wake of George Floyd, and it was hard and we it didn't get it done And we kind of stopped trying, right gotot spooked. We got we kind of stopped trying And it came from inside your cohort. It was a couple it was a senator from West Virginia and another one from Arizona that wouldn't vote for this stuff and did and you guys allowed some bad actors inside of your own party to stop a lot of this stuff from moving forward. And so people notice, black women and black men notice that we stopped trying And so and I also worry that sometimes And set of work here gets limited to the issue of voting rights, which is super important. criminal justice. But what's happening? Yeah, but but we don't we have not talked about criminal justice reform as much as we used to in the last few years. But it's even deeper than that. I mean, the most work that I've done in this space is around what's happening in our schools I mean, the that school to prison pipeline, the way that school discipline is used to target boys in particular is an absolute abomination. And that is actually, you know, one of the primary experiences that black women have is watching their sons be treated fundamentally differently in the school discipline process than others are. That's a real life daily experience that we that we could lift up It's frankly in some ways easier to tackle than the what's happening in the criminal justice system because we actually have examples of schools that when they pulled the school resource officers out of the schools, put them back onto the streets, the school discipline rates and the disparities dropped. So We have to be Um, trying We have to build a narrative about American patriotism is fiercely inclusive. And then I think we have to explain that the changes we're talking about in the economy are all about giving the ability for everybody have that American dream, that business that they start, that business that thrives, but that's a particularly important narrative for Black America Good way to end it. Chris Murphy Senator from Connectut. You know, you know, I just before you go, I want to say something I like to watch the Sunday shows. I don't know why. I'm mask is like that. I like to get up and I watch All of fascination I watch, all of meet the press. sounds unnecessary. I just like it, you know They put you wake up and and there's Mark Way Mullen on there. I just don't know how to fuck some of these people got to where they are. I don't mean to be a dick about it, but sometimes I watch stuff and I am amazed It makes me look down on myself, like I've been more, I've done more Becauseuse sometimes I watch particularly on the Sunday shows. they don't do long sit downowns, but particularly on these shows I'm watching this. I want you to just make sure Don't make a fool oute of yourself, Chris. Like when you when you go that is I watch and I am flabergasted it sometimes. But that but it's a consequence of what skills you need to have today to succeed politically. So the two primary skills you need are you click bait Right. And Clickbait has nothing to do with qualifications to be a political leader And you need to be able to raise money. You need to have the kind of hood necessary to call up strangers one after another and ask them for money. And so you know what? if you're selecting leaders based upon whether they say things that will get clicks and whether they are good telemarketers You're going to get some fucking weird people who rise to the cream of the crop because neither of those things have anything to do with the actual questions of merit as to who should be leading. So all of that is not unsolvable, like you could choose to finance campaigns differently you could choose to