Theories on the Incident

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Shop now at herero. co Code iheart for ten percent off All figures per serving.ee calor info at herero.. thirty to forty percent fewer calories than regular products calorie content has been reduced on average from hundred sixty to ninety two cories per serving, datea accurate as of two twenty six You're listening to Hoax, a production of IHart podcasts. Hs, it's a h how. No one ever ses for me. When I swear I never was toceing not last wnder Welcome to Hoax, a podcast about the lives we wish were true and truths that sound like lies. I'm the ghost of Danish Schartz, and I'm the evil twwin of Lizzie Logan. Welcome to the show Dana, it's our last hoax of season one. It's our last hoax. I'm very excited. You've been teasing a very long episode via text. A long episode, a juicy and that is an easaster egg. episode And I also just wanted to give us time to like Talk about what the season has meant to us, talkk about what we've learned, say thank you to the fans. and we're gonna keep in every tangent and every digression in the whole episode. I love so Yes. Buckle up. Buckle al episode How do you feel about Season one of Hoax. I have had a blast researching hoaxes. I think what I've been most dazzled by is the joy of like nineteenth and eighteenth century court cases because over ridiculous things. L I'll tell you these hoaxes that are seem like so silly and then I'm like, and it was a court case that last months. Yes, yes, yes. So that was very fun for me to dive into these hoaxes. And I also think the main thing I learned is that even at the time People didn't always believe them. And I'm like, there are people today who fully believe very dumb things. Oh yeah, people have not gotten significantly more or less Trickable. Yeah. past a scientology poster on the way here boy I'm just I'm getting political. No, I was about to say just o boy scientology. Yeah. But I just mean, I think that's part of the fun of researching hoaxes is realizing that like the press coverage they got back then was also because it's fun to cover hoaxes. The same way today, people love covering scammers. Oh abutely. And that doesn't mean just because we all wrote about Anadelvey or read about Anadelvey doesn't mean everyone would have fallen for it. Yes And I've been impressed by the creativity that goes into some of these hoaxes. L people really put a lot of effort into them. Yeah. I've also been really excited by thankful for the reception that this podcast has gotten. I mean, you obviously like had a lot of in goodoodwill and fans from Nobleblood. I am much newer to the podcast game. So I just want to say thank you everyone who has sort of stuck by through me. I've had like You know, just maybe some growing pains of me learning how to be onodaster. You are a natural. Thank you. I think started like pretty strong, but just I was not as practiced as you were. That's this is a totally new animal and I also want to say for people who listen to Noble Blood, thank you for trying something completely different. Yeah, absolutely. And people have so kindly written in with so many suggestions for hoaxes. We do We have noted them, we haven't really gotten to have a running list. But we have made a list of them and people have very kindly written in with like small corrections and you know, just suggestions of ways that we can be more accurate with our word choices. I'm really grateful when fans have sent photos. They've like visited sites that I can't get to. Someone sent a photo, She visited Anna Anderson's grave I should haveent I should have showed you these photos. No, it's okay. And I will I just am very, very grateful for the way people are engaging with these stories. So thank you, thank you. Yes. We will find a future for this podcast. So stick with us, follow on Instagram and we will tell you exactly where that future is. Yes. And don't unsubscribe from this feed, please It's nothings going to happen. Don't worry.'re if the next episode that comes up will be a Hoax episodes. J just chill out All right Today's topic is Jesseie Sollet Wh. Okay. Oh I cannot wait because this is a story truly that I did not really engage with. Yeah I just kind of was like I'm out Yeah. Similarly, I followed it for a little bit then when it was revealed that there were major inconsistencies I had the reaction that I think a lot of people had, which is like This is not white people's business. This is not my business. Yeah. You know, I am a pop culture writer and we have a podcast about hoaxes This is my business. This is a major hoax. This is a major hoax. So tririgger warning racism Homophobia Police brutality, descriptions of attacks by strangers. Those are good and important trigger warnings Also disclaimer There's going to be more disclaimers. G. Like we're going to be doing a lot of table setting throughout the episode. Yeah. We're going to go through it pretty slowly. If you're someone who wants us to get to the point, we're not going to get to the point right away.re go through it. quite slow. There's a lot of table setting to be done to do this correctly. Yeah. I wanted this to be the last episode. to the podcast because I wanted be the best podcaster I could be by the time we got to it. Wow, Lizzie, because it's a complicated story. Yeah And I wanted us to be like in our hoax groove. Yeah Al also thought that it was an interesting sort of bookend to the first topic that I to this podcast which was Balloon Boy. Yes. So both were modern media hoaxes where all of the participants are still alive They are both about people who had already been on TV The balloon boy family you might remember was on Wifewatch. Reality TV And then we're essentially like potentially using these hoaxes just to get on TV more They had a lot of media coverage and then got called liars who did it for publicity In both cases, the people who are involved still claim innocence Okay. And in both instances, there was like minimal jail time served and the charges were essentially dropped and it was basically trial by media. Yeah, it does seem like sometimes for these hoaxes, except when the seventeenth cent the eighteenth century, most of the time people are like, well, what are we going to put them on trial for? Right. Obviously, this is much more serious Yeah the general shape of it. is actually quite similar. So speaking of seriousness Jusseie to this day maintains his innocence. Okay. And so if you're listening to this and you believe him You might be thinking like where do these two straight white girls get off going on there mostly sort of lighthearted podcast and calling this gay black guy a liar about a hate crime So like, you know, fair's fair, skkip this episode. Yeah His perspective will be taken into account in this episode, we're going to give him his say. I'll also say, listen, a lot of very smart people think he's lying and We're not saying that we don't believe Hate crimes happen We're saying this story is questionable Tomorrow, it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it happened exactly how he said that it happened I'm a jerk, like I own that. then then you know what, cancel me, Lizzie. likeike that's just on me. I will also point out that because hate crimes are real and legitimate, when people don't tell the truth about them, it muddies the water and makes things much harder and messier for people who really do experience that violence Also just keep that in mind. That's gonna be a big thing. Yeah That's something that makes me very frustrated. peopleople who Especially online now that this is a I actually don't know much or anything about this case, but it does make me very frustrated online when I see people sort of like, spinning a narrative of victimhood that isn't accurate and smells fishy because then it just muddies the water and makes it harder for people with legitimate grievances to find voice. But my last two points of like why I think this is sort of a legit topic for our podcast are my big ones. Number one, Jessie's Okay. So he got sober a few years ago. He's engaged. He's making music. He was recently on a reality show. H whole family supports him. Like we're not kicking a man who is down. G. We're not like making content about an incident that like ruined his life. Like he's good Sober, engaged, surrounded by loving family.. He has a life. So this is this is a man who's like out there and I don't know if he's thriving, but he's certainly doing fine. G part of that, he's talking about this. He participated in a documentary about it. He's given at least two podcast interviews about it, and he knows that if he talks about it, the media's going talk about it. Yeah. He brought it up, you know, he's giving the media permission to talk about it. He knows how the game is played. so like This is not an incident that he's too traumatized to talk about and He knows that if he talks about it, he's giving the media permission to talk about it and he knows that the narrative is that it was a hoax So we're covering all sides of it. Sorry, like I'm actually very excited to dive in Wh was Jesse Smallllet An actor? Yes. He is one of six siblings born to a Black and Irish mother and a white Jewish father in the Bayrea White Jewish father already common ground and the Bay area So he's technically like a quarter black. Okay. So I would say that he is light skinn black Kind of the way he looks is like if he told you he was something else, you might believe him. Do you have a pict? He looks black. Yes I know I know this actor And I know his sister, I think, was on Lovecraft C.es. And I did watch that show and love that book. Okay, yeah, yeah. I don't a good looking guy. I don't know whether I know him from like the media related to this or to be honest, if I have seen anything he's been in U he was mostly just on emmpire Yeah, I didn't watch Empire The reason that I'm describing his skin color so specifically, and I'm going to describe other people's skin color throughout the episode is that I believe that it speaks to like potential motivations and is relevant and him being perceived as black is very important to him Yeah and like claimed by the black community The siblings are raised primarily by their mother and they all get into acting as kids He has a small part in the mighty Ducks Oh, The original? Yeah, the first one U it's his second role. But here I already want to go on a tangent because that is sort of like touted as like his breakout, but it's technically Yeah, so it's technically his second role. His first role is in one of the most insane made for TV movies I've ever come across and I just need to tell you about the first thing he ever his first ever made for TV movie So it's called a littleittle Pce of Heaven It stars Kurk Cameron and Cloris Leachman Great. Okaykay. directed by Mimi Letter who directed Dep Impact. Wow. and the like Ruth Bader Ginsburg movie on the basis of sex. Yeah. But in nineteen ninety one, she directed this madeade for TV movie. And I'm just going to read you the logline from IMDB.. Will Loomis lives with his mentally handicapped sister, Violet, who wants a younger child to play with. So Will kidnaps one and then another from the local children's home and tells them they're dead and have gone to heaven Will and Violet try to make their farm a little piece of heaven for the kids while the authorities wonder what has happened to the kidnapped children Oh my God. Is this based on a true story? No Wait I don't think If this was not based on a true story, that is deranged. Who are we supposed to be rooting for I mean no like I would hope What's crazy is it's Parents have kidnapped children and these children are being violently traumatized. Well, it's the older brother who kidnaps children. Yeah, that's pretty bad. And then at some point like A judge is like, you can't tellell these kids that they're dead, but you can Like you can open up your farm as like an orphanage They get permission to be around children after they k. The most ins thing I've ever heard. It's like I don't know. Lizz, we have to do, okay, let's do a hoax movie night. We'll do Anastasia. Yeah, and we'll do a little piece of heaven. But I was like, you know what? What if this is where Jesse learned that like reality's just whatever you want it to be? Wow, that is relevant. Is he one of the kidnapped children? Yeah. Okay. Maybe he did, Maybe he learned that. I think he's the first kidnapped child And then the little girl is like, I wanted a little girl to play with, not a little boy. It's the most insane thing. I'm like I really can't even wrap my head around it. We need to watch this movie and report back. It really just Blew my mind when I read that. All right, so the family moves out to LA and all six siblings book a show together. Wow. They're all like good looking cute. Yeah. and it's called On our ownwn and it's basically like a very upbeat party of five. Great, but it's like six siblings being raised by their older. siblings And the show ends and he stops acting for a little bit. He went to high school Where he felt very out of place, he attended mostly white schools And he doesn't go to college. I'm not sure like what he's up to sort of during the years that he would have been in college. But in twenty twelve, he gets back into acting At this point, the rest of the siblings have stopped acting except for, as you pointed out Jery, who's his sister, who has had a great career. Yeah. She's great. I've seen her in things. Yeah, she was on, but she's had like a steady career since being a little kid Oh yeah. She was on Cosby, She was on Friday night Lights. You might recognize her from Eves Bay you. Birds of prerey, loveove Craft Country. and I'm gonna go on a little tangent here I have met Jerny Smollett. Wow She was lovely. She was a very nice person. She iss maybe the best looking human I've ever met. Yeah, I can imagine that. Like I've met movie stars where I'm like, o, you're such a good looking human Journy Sollet, I was like, oh, you're an angel. Like littleittle piece of heaven. Little piece of heaven like If I had to be with a woman. Yeah. like she glowed I do wonder, I mean, yeah, she's just like a stunningly beautiful woman When celebrities become famous, I think something They get some skincare regimen that normal people aren't privy to because they get other water, I think. Yeah. Okay. tangent that's gonna to stay in. Yeah. I was eating lunch and someone walked into the restaurant. And before I even identified it as a person, I was like, oh, their skin is glowing. their clothes look different. You just knew it was a movie star before they walked in. And it was Connor's story. Yeah. And he has not been famous that long No It was astonishing just like the truly like celebrity glow even before I recognized who it was. skin, hair, their clothes fit different. I want to know what they're doing. differentifferent waters I think accurate. Different water, but also even Be I've seen other celebrities Journey was like She just was She's getting special water. Journey's getting the most special. She's bathing in the special water. J good for her. Anyway. Also I'd just say like Man, can you imagine being like The second most famous person in that family? Yeah mightight be kind of rough, but whatever, they're close. O great. I don't know. Sometimes I do think being siblings to a famous person is great because you get a lot of the perks without a lot of the downsides Maybe, I think Jesie wants to be famamess. Yeah. in twenty fifteen, I Small but main role on a little show called Empire. Big show. Do you remember empire? Yeah, huge too. Do you remember what emmpire was about A music dynasty family. It' like succession, but music? Yes. And it was long before succession. Yeah. So succession is empire for media So it's King Lear with a record company. Oh, yeah, great catch. It's u Lucius Lyion, played by Tererennce Howard is the head of a record label and he finds out that he's dying, I think of ALS and he has to figure out which of his three sons to leave his record label to Gender swapped King Layer. Yes. and at the same time his wife Cookie, played by Traji P. Henson just got out of prison. funun and she's coming for her Pace. And it is a phenomenon. It is gets huge ratings in its first season. It's like doing that thing where it gets bigger ratings every episode? Yeah. Word of mouth. Yeah I'm a little bit of a what's is he one of the kids? Yes, so he's the middle son. Okay I'm a bit of a TV history nerd, and I was gonna do a whole history lesson about black television in twenty fifteen with like Seuna Rimes and Tyler Perry, but it was not strictly relevant yet. Interesting though. We'll talk about that later. But I'll just put this in here as a little if anyone else is a TV history nerd and is wondering why there were a lot of black sitcoms in the nineties and then they' suddenly stopped being black sitcoms. Yeah The big part of it is because the WB and UPN murdered and became the CW which wanted a white audience That makes a lot of sense So All of which is to say in twenty fifteen, when Empire premiered, it was not First, So with an all black cast to be like . show of the moment But it was still very, very rare. Yeah And most of these sort of must see networks shows of the moment were like all white shows like desperate Housewives. O they were these big ensemble shows like Gray's Anatomy or Lost, which Had diverse casts, but the main characters were like white people in a love triangle And even something like Sandal, which does have a female lead is a big ensemble and it's She's mostly interacting with white people. Her love interest is a white person It's a big, you know diverse ensemble. like I don't know if people would consider a scandal a black show No. So again, like yeah, like to get away with murder was sort of also riding that wave Yeah. and empire broke through as unapologetically all blacks Um So it was just very exciting Jesie's dad dies the same day the show premieres. So Jesse's dad had not really been around during his childhood, but I think they had reconnected during his adulthood. So he's dealing with overnight fame, he's dealing with the loss of his dad Jesse plays Jamal Who is the middle signon and who is gay. And he is gay in real life And the show creator Lee Daniels is also gay So even though Jamal starts as a small part, Lee Daniels keeps putting more and more of his own experiences into Jamal. and sort of using him as an avatar to like talk about gay rights. Yeah So yeah, so Justie iss also o g When the show premiered, he just doesn't talk about his private life But three months after the show premieres, he confirms to Ellen that he's gay, which had already been speculated. Oh, coming out to Ellen. What a moment So basically what he says is I was never in a closet So he doesn't really come out. He just sort of says, Ohh, I've never not I like I Well, I was never dating a woman, like I've never not I've never not been gay. I haven't like talked about it a bunch. Yeah. ' he doesn't wantan to be seen as not embracing who he is or hiding himself, but he just doesn't want it to be a story I I mean, As an actor, I find it very interesting and legitimate The way that once Hollywood perceivive someone as gay, they're absolutely put into a box. I mean, that was the whole thing with like people have speculated that that's one of the reasons Matt Boer never got Superman, even though he was considered a front runner and very much looks like Superman There's just a perception of actors still to this day of like A listers cannot be gay. So I understand the sort of tight situation Jesseie would have been in being like, well, I don't want tona not embrace who I am and be proud of myself, but also I want to I want as much potential for my career as possible because Hollywood has these insane biases And I mean, there's even like evenven You know, straight white actors. who don't do a lot of press will say The more the audience knows about your real life, the less they see you as a character They just don't want you to think of them as whoever they are, they just want you to see them as characters that they play So he says, you know My family embraces me. They've known who I was since I was a teenager. I just don't want to make it a story. Yeah At this point, this is what Queen Latifa is also saying. And you know, we've since known her to walk red carpets with her Female life partner threeree months after that, we get the Supreme Court decision that legalizes same sex marriage federally. Wow, this is such a throwback. You're like, I cannot believe that this was so recent. Yeah. ye. So like things are rapidly changing. from the time he booked the part to the time The show premiered to the time giving the interviews The cultural value of him being an out bllack gay man you can see him doing the math of this might be a huge negative all the way to potentially might be a huge pos Like, could there be a whole community that is begging to embrace me? you know, I don't know It's like, is this historically this has been a negative? Maybe this is the one moment where this might benefit me. Right. And he's so he's embracing it. So he becomes friends with like the activist Dray Mcesson His Twitter bi best guy? Yes from the Black Lives Matter movement H Twitter bio at the time is I am here to save the world I mean, that's also just very actory. It's very actory and like You just have to really, you were saying throwback, you just have to really think back to like Obama's second term. Yeah. We really thought television was going to save the world. We really did. Orange is the newew black was gonna fix prison To the best of my knowledge, it did, right? Transparent was gonna fix trans rights. Yeah in the most sincere way It was a very earnest. It was peak woke. We were so lived out. We were Fully lived out. we really thought it was gonna to work And so he goes from being this sort of quietly queer brother of a successful working actress. The future is female Lizzie. The fut was female So you remember Everyone was a man bun Yum When it comes to looking your best, Beachbum tanning does it better. 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Data accurate as of two twenty twenty six He goes from being the quietly queer brother of a successful working actress to being potentially like One of the faces of the new civil rightights movement Yeah He's got a record deal What sort of musician is he Mike did John Legend two point zer? Like he's a a singer songwriter. agree pererforming at the White House for the Obamas? Oh, so he started of Ly Manuel Miranding too. Yeah, like overnight I can imagine He is under so much pressure. And he's got Again, I would imagine Such a huge ego. Oh of course This is my tensent. When I worked at Entertainment Weekly, it was sort of anecdotally known and very. Con actors who were the absolute worst to work with were brand new actors on a huge hit show. Yeah. whereereas career actors were like humble and lovely and wonderful. like Brian Cranston, you interview him about Breaking Bad and he's like, Yes, you're a professional. I'm a professional. hereere's my time. Let's sit down imagine the cast of a High school G singing club I was going to say G the gly kids It's like They go from zero to sixty so fast that they're just like It was the ego was very hard to know. Every insecurity is blown Yeah Yeah. All right, we're going to make a hard left turn. talk about police brutality. Great. Yeah And did Gee add dress up? Police brutal No. Okay, well I guess that's why it's not solved. Yeah. All right Chicago, a city you know. A city I'm very familiar with. Did you know that Chicago has more cops than the LAPD No, but that makes sense. I was surprised to find this out. Chicago has the second biggest police force in the country After New York, after New York. And then L.A is the third. Well, we're the second city. Yeah And I think it's because LA is not as like Does this make sense LA is not as big as LA. L Yeahah, LA's not very dense Well LA not very dense and also like The L.A area Yeah. Like not everyone who works in L.A lives in technically L.A. like again, this is a tangent, but wherever we're keeping it. when we're recording this, it is only five days after the Mayoral primary. And just anecdotally, I kept seeing online people talking about or like poll workers saying There were Republicans in Beverly Hills, know Yeah who were mad that they couldn't vote for they were like Hey, why isn't Spencer Pratt on the ballot on my ballot, he If you didn't know is a Republican running for mayor of Los Angeles They didn't realize that Beverly Hills is not technically in Los Angeles. Beverly Hills, Burbank, West Hollywood Deton City. Yeah. So However you the listener feel about law enforcement in this country The fact is that The Chicago PD just does not have a good reputation does not have a good reputation. from up Chicagor from Chicago. I'm from the suburbs of Chicago, but I can confirm that it does not have a good reputation. L just Even if we're just talking American police, like Chicago's not the shining star of the law enforcement. Its reputation is bad on both sides. L it's bad where it's like they're not enforcing crime. It's really dangerous in certain areas and it's bad where it's like They are As the, you know, perception goes, very racist, very violent Right. Like They're brutal and it doesn't even work You know what I mean? Like they're brutal and Chicago's dangerous So empire Chicag's a beautiful city. It's my favorite city in the country. Yeah, Chicago, Al great Chicago iss really clean I w say that. It's really nice Empire is set in New York, but it was filmed primarily in Chicago. That's why we're talking about these in the years that we're going to talk about Chicago is also going through a little crime spike Republicans love to talk about that Oh crime spike So I couldn't find an exact filming schedule for the first season of Empire, but I know that they filmed the pilot in spring twenty fourteen And then the pilot premiered in january twenty fifteen. So I'm assuming that they filmed season one through the rest of twenty fourteen. Yeah, probably the fall So This is happening right when they're filming season one, october twenty fourteen. A White Chicago police officer named Jason Van Dyke shot and killed a seventeen year old black boy named Laquan McDonald Dana, do you remember any of this? I remember like the story, but not the details. Okay, so I'm about to describe the event. So if you don't wantna hear about this, just fast forward like ninety seconds It was nighttim Kuan had a small knife and had been breaking into cars on the side of the road. So someone had called the cops and there were other officers already on the scene and he had slashed one of the police car tires and the other officers were waiting for someone with a taser to arrive. They didn't all have tasers. so they were waiting for someone with a taser to arrive. so Iume they can is him Lquon And offfficer Van Dyke and his partner showed up and offfficer Van Dyke gets out of his squad car and immediately just like openpen fire on this kid. Oh my Godd. Any shot him sixteen times. Yeah And Laquan was alive when the paramedics arrived, but dead by the time they got to the hospital End of description of murder So the police claimed that the shooting was in self defense But the autopsy comes out and says it's not in self defense, and the city agrees to pay the McDonald's family five million dollars And then the dashcam footage comes out as the result of a journalist's Freedom of Information actct request and shows that it's dis like brutal and very bizarre incident And the city erupts in protests. And because you know, it it's not just the murder, it's the cover up. Yeah because this is happen it taken over a year for the dash cam footage to come out And the chant is sixteen shots in a coverup And Kim Fox, who is a black woman, uses this moment to get elected the first black state' attorney in Cook County history So obviously for this podcast, I'm not going to get into the exact details of like police reforms, but this is a very big deal. There's a Department of Justice investigation into the Chicago PD And the investigation finds that basically, like the Chicago police use unreasonable and excessive force They have a pattern of covering up their mistakes instead of having transparency and accountability And they're like violating people's civil rights and it's unconstitutional And this whole process is taking a few years. They're ordered to undergo various reforms, including a consent decree, which I won't get into, but I know that I a little bit know where it's from from the TV show Elspeth. Good job And the reason that I'm talking about all of this is because s just like Even more than usual, So uring the years leading up to this incident. It's a real moment especially for Chicago PD. Yes. and like unlike other sort of Oh, there was a shooting and we look bad moments that can happen in various major cities. This one has like real consequences. like the Department of Justice got involved their work reforms as a result. like This one kind of stuck you know, cops don't even look like evil geniuses, they sort of look like evil idiots. Yeah. I sometimes the scariest thing in these, you know, you get the footage and you're just like, They're not even acting rationally by their own logic The mayor at the time, Rob Emanuel fires the white superintendent of police and replaces him with Edie Johnson who is black Um, and, you know, he doesn't say like This is to stop the protest, but like there's sort of a feeling that oh they just gave the to a black guy. to appease us, Sar. You know, you can interpret that however you want. Yeah, though it's like Whether the chief of police should be black is something that like I as a white person with unfamiliar with intimate like on a personal level, the history of police violence. I'm like That's not for me to weigh in Right? Like actctivists have different reactions to that Exactly That does happen as a direct consequence of this. Yeah. And whether it was meant cynically or like to genuinely try to make things better that's or a combination of both january twenty nineteen. Officer Van Tyke, who originally had like gotten away with it, had been a declared a justified shooting. He's he had been indicted. He's convicted of murder. Good and sentenced to just under seven years in prison. Great, an actual consequence. Actual consequence one week later. to Jesse Smollett. Okay going so great if you're Jessie Smollet. Really As good as they were when we last checked in with him in twenty fifteen. How long has it been now? It's been four years. four years, okay. How old is he? just for context? thirty Okay, so thirties, four years since Empire premiered Empire ratings are really far down nose dive down He has been getting online threats the way I think like any outspoken gay Black Lives Matter advocate probably does. But he also recently received like a letter Lake. I sort of Classic threat letter with like Cut out magazine like letters. That's so funny that these these people writing threreats are that lazy. Yeah. like cliche. A marker drawing of a guy with like a noose around his neck. Oh ye I mean, I have absolutely no doubt that his mentions at this time were horrific. Horrific So, you know a rough time. And it's not like, you know, he's on Empire, but it doesn't seem, I don't really have a memory of this, but it doesn't seem like he's getting a ton of other gigs He's not you He's not Dana. Y He's not Yeah He flies from LA into Chicago and he lands around midnight. and his creative director When you say his creative director? Dana, we're moving past it. Great. His creative director, Frank Gatson, picks him up the airport and drives him back to his condo in Streeterville, which is a neighborhood in Chicago. Yes There's no food in the apartment So around two AM, he goes out to the Walgreens, thinking that it's open all night, but it's not So he goes another block to the subway sandwich At this point it's January twenty ninth, I mean maybe it's like the early hours of january third. Anyway, it's the end of January. It's Chicago. It's cold This is during a polar vortex. It's like negative twenty degrees. Yeah You know, there are a couple other people at the subway sandwich. so Later someone would be like no one in their right mind would go out for food at this hour, but like, you know, some people do. Also, I'm like, I don't know, you're hungry. People would be like, what are you supposed to do for food? Get delivery? That means someone else has to go outside I actually don't think this is crazy. I mean, I think it's unpleasant, but sometimes you have to go out for food even when it's cold. I don't know what to say yah. He goes out for food. But it is very, very cold out. whileile he's in the subway sandwich, he texts his manager asking just like, hey, like can we talk He gets his food, he steps out, his manager calls him, so he's on the phone He hears The commander calls him at like two AM Yeah, well I think as managers in LA where it's probably like midnight or whatever He hears some guys yelling at him. and he just ignores it and keeps walking. And then they yell a little louder And they say, Empire Are you that empire F slur N slur. Yeah. So they've called him a horrible name for gay people and for black people he turns around and they say and he says what is the race of the people harassing him. We'll get that. Okay. in a seact And he says, what did you say to me? And they go This is MAGa Country. Oh, okay, I'm gonna guess who they are He turns around And they start like punching him. It's absolutely not MGa Country Good point. by the way, I will say Chicago. putut a pin in that. Yeah They start punching him. okay? He tries to fight back They you know, it's two on one, they beat him up and knock him down They're wearing ski masks So like Balalavus All he can see is the skin around their eyes So he can tell like from their build and their voices that they're men. and he can tell from the skin that they're white. Okay. But that's all he knows And then they just like leave gooes home He still has his phone and his sandwich He realizes that there's a rope around his neck chemical on his sweater Let's pause and talk about horrifying thing that has happened and also some the details that are a little bit Strange Yes I will say to me what is strange, notot even that he still has his sandwich and phone because it wasn't a robbery. It was a hate crime. They were be him up for being the gay guy on Empire what is slightly strange is Okay, a few things to me just on the surface. Clavas in the middle of a polar vortex actually does not strike me as weird. No, I'm like actually people would be wearing face coverings. Also, if you're about to commit a hate crime, you might cover your face. But The They obviously wouldn't have known that he was walking around. It seems like a crime of opportunity seeing as he just arrived back in Chicago. And it doesn't seem if it is a crime of opportunity, the fact that they would have nse and chemicals seems sururprising. Yeah, which will later be like discovered like the consensus is that it's bleach But even still, like why would why would they be working around bleach two warning? Yeah if they just came across him It's not MAGa country. so I'm like, why is why are MAGa people walking around But people are everywhere. So this is a more cynical one maybe because he's a bigger deal in the Maybe like the MAGA community had sort of made him a target, but it also strikes me as I did not watch Empire. I don't think I would have recognized him on site where I'm like in the dark in the dark, just walking around Chicago. identified which which sibling from Empire he was Yeah where I'm like MGa people probably weren't watching Empire. It just seems to like four years into its run when it was not that big That's why I'm like, I just don't think white non fans of Empire would have recognized Jesse Smollet. Yeah, seems like Really quite the coincidence. but the only counterpoint to that, I would say, is maybe like in the MAGA community, you know how they sometimes have their like enemies. Yeah. that I'm like maybe he was like really famous for being a Black Lives Matter like punching bag in the MAGA community. Right. But I don't know if he was I don't know I don't think they would recognize him from watching Empire seeason four I mean, the other thing is like Okay Obviously racists can live Anywhere? Yes and Hate crimes can happen in well to do areas Straderville in particular. I like looked up where all of this happened on a map My mom for work for a while. lived in Chicago She lived like two blocks from where this happened and I've stayed at her apartment I've like walked by that subwayandwich shop There is no like No look up on a map where this happened. I'd like to see Oh my grandpa used to live around there U I just, it's like by Michigan Avenue which is the main like shopping thoroughfare where like there's the Ralph Lauren store and the very your mile if you know what that is. Yeah If you're like A skinhead looking for trouble You don't go to this area. Again, it's the most populous, like most touristy area and it's like a rich area for like R Her reason yuppies Again, Chicago River, it's like The Langgham Hotel which is like a fancy hotel and like an Apple store Lake The fancy Apple story, the big one. Like there aret bars. there aren't boarding places where you could find a lot of rowdy people It would just be such a bizarre place to like Hang out Looking for trouble. Loo for trouble. Yeah So sort of the only explanation that makes sense is that they were waiting specifically for him. Yeah. And like you said, like that he was a target because again, if you have a noose to which is a, you know, hate indicated indication of a hate crime against a black person R and bleach ready to go around where Jusie Smollett lives and they recognize him from Empire, a show that they wouldn't naturally have watched unless they specifically hated this person. Yeah. it does seem like they would have needed specifically to stalk and wait for him, which is possible. right? It's like Okay, so they did this thing and they punched them and then they ran away like I mean, now I'm trying to parse the logic of like white supremacists who like don't really operate on like logic than just like are fueled by hate And I guess that'll keep you warm in the negative twenty degree weather, but like How would they know he was getting back that night? L And they they decided to do their hate crime during a polar vortex, which is true commitment. which is true commitment and like a little bit smart because I guess there's not going to be a lot of witnesses, but like T wite And and it's just just seems so unlikely s it's a challenging thing to believe especially when you know the context of Chicago, like I think other people If you just said A hate crime happened at night in Chicago, you'd be like, yeah, that's plausible. Yeah. And then the location and the details and the specificity of it It leaves sort of a sour taste in your mouth for me, you know, I think that the strangeness of it what is especially because No one wants to question a hate crime happening Right. If someone tells you a hate crime happened against them for being gay and black, you want to of course always be like, that is horrific. How can I support you? Yeah Like, if he had just said like, The craziest thing happened. These white guys bump my shoulder and then we got into a fight and they punched me They called me the N word. I'd be like Yeah sound the bar. Yeah, thatsounds butly, right They recognized me from my TV show and had props with them. I'd be like, all right, sounds like they had a plan Quite the plan. Quite the plan. Also now knowing where it is. I'm like at two AM in this area it only makes sense that they would have so wom been there Thank God, he needed to get out to get food. Yeah Because this is also not a neighborhood. Again, this is a very did they know his apartment wasn't going to have food in it? This is a very populous tourist area. So it's like if they were stalking him If it was any other time of day, there would have been a million witnesses. So like, thank God, he just happened to let's wait all night in case he needs to come out and get food because it's not like, you know, at six AM even, you know, people will be out We can't And let's hope he doesn't have a friend with him Yeah. So No, no, there are details about this story that are strange and require more context. Yes to the tail. Yeah He doesn't want to call the cops He just doesn't trust the police Fair. But his creative director calls anyway. I'm I guess we're just breezeon passast breezing pass it, creativereee pass it. You know what I think it's like for his album or whatever. Okay, okay, okay. you can hear the nine hundred eleven call like in documentaries, he's like I work for an artist. There's been an attack and he doesn't want me to call, but I think we need to file a report Two detectives show up and Gatson meets them in the lobby and he's like, All right You're going to meet a celebrity. Did you guys watch Empire? And they're like, Ohh yeah, I've heard of it So they walk in, they ask him a few questions. He's wearing the nse. Okay I don't like that. Yeah and They're like, oh, is that Do you want to take that off? Yeah And he goes, Well, yeah, I just put it on to show you guys. Okay and he takes it off and then he goes, Oh are you recording I don't want this recorded. So they turn their body cams off because he asked them to. Okay got the sense from the bodycam footage that he's like a little bit embarrassed. Yeah. You know, he's been victimized and like maybe a little emasculated. Yeah, if you're beaten up in any context as a man, youre that's you know, I don't think it's embarrassing, but you know, I can understand why other people are embarrassed. It's like it's just an awkward situation. Eddie Johnson, the police chief superintendent, will later say that the noose being on was suspicious Because who sits around wearing the noose? Yeah, it's traumatic Jusse will say he took it off, but then he just put it back on to show the cops. Okay. Eddie Johnson loves to say that all these things were suspicious He just calls everything suspicious in hindsight. Yeah, like it's weird, but I don't find that suspicious actually. I am not gonna include all the things that he calls suspicious because there's enough like good evidence that I'm just gonna skip all the things that he calls suspicious that are random and circumstantial like hindsight thing. Like he just loves to be like and I found that suspicious I was ono him from the beginning because this was suspicious and that was suspicious and And I'm like didn't You're just you're just saying that because in hindsight we know that it was suspicious, but like you don't frrein know like U I'm leaving out all of that and so, you know, whatever But not it, just just in case you had heard before, like in case you're coming into this episode being like, but what about this thing that was suspicious? Like I'm leaving. We're leaving out the suspicious things because there's good evidence and we have enough to go on with the good evidence. G When it comes to looking your best, Beachbum Tanning does it better. Beachbum delivers advanced sun and spray tanning, luxury skincare, and an elevated salon experience designed around you. It's why so many guests trust Beachbum for flawless color and real confidence. 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Shop now at herero. co. code iheart for ten percent off alligures per serving. seeee calor info aterooto. thirty four to forty percent fewer calories than regular products calorie is reduced on average from one sixty to ninety cories pering, da accurate of two So after he talks to the cops, the cops are like, you should probably go to the hospital and get checked out. Yeah, goes to Northwestern Memorial Hospital, He gets an x ray and a CT scan. He's fine. It's just cuts and bruises. I think that's where I was born And they're like, did you know about Dana? They didid hear about Dana? nineteen ninety three? Yeah A As you said Everyone is has the reaction that you sort of predicted of like, oh my God, What What a horrible thing. That's an abhorrent thing to happen. abhorrent hor to a person The news gets out pretty much overnight immediately If there's any worry that this will kick off like a race war in Chicago Doesn't everyone's just team, Jessie? Yeah, everyone should be like that is a horrible thing that happened to this person Trump is like, that's awful. Yeah. he like kind of just skims over the magga of it. and he's just like, that's the worst. That's horrible. That shouldn't happen U That's nuts that even Trump is like, yeah, bad. No, he's like that's despicable. You shouldn't do that. That's awful. Rys Witherspoon gives him a shout out, Viola Davis, Zendaya, Kevin Bacon, Jordan Peel, Kamala Harris, Andy Cohen, etcetera, etcetera everyverybody giving shout outs to Jesse. Okay I have to bring this up just because you said Kamala Harris. Yeah, the day that I saw Connor story at lunch. Oh Oh you also saw Kamala Harris at that same restaurant Just a fun fact about me. I recently saw Jason Siegel at UCB waiting in the lobby for because his fiance was in an improv show. and I was like Go to a cafe nearby. You don't have to just sit awayit in the lobby wasas he working He was on his phone Come on, Jason It wasn't even like Pper UCB was the UCB annex. That's I wouldn't want my fiancee waiting for me for that long. That's like G Yeahah, go to a cafe great Anyoneever you know what it is? Suspicious. Suspicious. Listen, we have to lighten up the episode We're lightening up episode We're lighting up the episode. We're just talking about facts, and then we're making jokes about other things that are not the facts Thank you. Four days after the attack, Jesse plays his show at the Troubador here in LA Great theater. It's sold out. Yeah,, I imagine. a lot of support. He's been in the news. A lot of support It's very important to him that he shows everyone that he's doing okay. It's also Black History Month at this point. Yeah. He tells the crowd, I'm not fully healed yet, but I'm going to. I'm going to stand strong with you all. He says, be blacker, be gayer, I love you. You know what? there's no right or wrong way to respond to these things. and I'm just going to put it out there I am a survivor of like a random stranger assault. I'm totally fine. and the guy who did it is in prison. And if anyone came for me about the way I reacted to that. I would like tell them to shut the F up. Yeah so There's no right or wrong way. Except Erica Kirk is reacting the wrong way She is reacting the wrong way to what a horrible horrible thing happened to her family. Yeah. And she is reacting theong way. I will say that. Erica Kirk is being weird this show He also says, I'm the gay tupx Okay, which a lot of people are like, no That's an interesting thing to say. That's a little much That's just an interesting like, it's sort of when you try to give yourself a nickname calling me the gay tupa. Yeah, it's sort of like he wanted He wanted bloggers to start calling him the gay T pac. So he said he was the gay Tup talk. Yeah That's a stretch Like all the coverage is like he did not elaborate what he meant by that I think it's pretty clear what he meant by it I a tiny bit get what he meant by that. I think I get what he was going for. I don't think I agree. Here' what I'll They both have ties to the Bay Area They both are in show business and we're victims of violence? Yes Both of their mothers were involved with the Black Panthers. Oh, cool. So If he grew up being like interested in Tupac music and knew that he died from sort of just like a sudden act of violence. And then this thing happened to him, he might I understand that he might be looking for a role model. Yeah. He might be like God, who who do I like I need to contextualize this thing that happened to me Oh my God, Tupac. like that's how I can make meaning out of this horrible thing that happened to me is Tupac's legacy, I'll be the gay Tupac. I also think, I'm going to go on the record and say this, sometimes celebrities say dumb things People who are a lot, a lot I think that happens. A lot of celebrities are in weird bubbles. They get very arrogant because people are waiting on them hand in foot on set. like literally just being an actor on set, you're just like, can I get you anything? What can I do? And so that for years, I think distorts their brains and they're surrounded not by normal people, but by other like showbiz people and people who make money off them. And I just think sometimes celebrities say dumb things It's a little As we talked about, this was a little fishy from the start Dave Chappelle has a pretty famous bit about how like people didn't believe this from the start and I want to go on the record fully normal and fully non controversial comedian. Dave Chapell. Dave Chapll who's wr right about everything. I'm just quoting as a source because it is very hard to do like forensic evidence of like who believed you can't like, yeah Like I can't Lexus, nexus people's thoughts. So I'm try like this is my source of what people thought. So what did yeah, what was So Dave Chappelle has a bit about Gay people wanting black people to believe this and black people not Black people be like, oh, it's not that we're against him because he's gay, We're against him because we know he's lying Yeah If you go on Reddit sort of the sentiment is like, oh, we all like Chicagoans always knew this was fishy, but we didn't want to say that because, you know, we didn't want to like who wants to call or hate victim I look a crime victim a li lot. Yeah Usually we talk about why people believed it at the end of the episode. I want to right now talk about why people believed it. To me, this Tell me if this sentence makes sense. This is the Ruth Conda forever of hoaxes. Yeah. White people wanted to live out. To me, this is This crime is a little cartoonish. Yeah Only racism and homophobia were this clear cut and obvious Like. It's a horrible thing to believe happened But it Almost a fantasy makes rich liberals feel really good about how they voted I will also say it kind of reminds me actually of something that happens on the other side too Have you seen like Republicans occasionally or have, you know and posts on the internet fake graffiti that like liberals supposed that like Antifa supposedly did to their house. Like bad graffiti that's like Antifa forever was like weird misspelling. so like Republicans could be like, ah, Antifa. and it clearly is like a false flag that like they did to themselves That sort of the same thing where you're right. It's like a fantasy of what the other side does. Yeah. and it's like This is such a neatly uncomplicated story. There are no byystanders who didn't help A noose and a bleach are awful But they're not guns So we don't have to have a debate He didn't get seriously injured Obviously, I'm against Hate crimes. like like obviously. Lizzie O on the record. on the record You know Re life is messy.. Usually when you attttack someone? They Punch back thenen By the end of the fight, it's not always super clear who the victim is And also in terms of making something a hate crime versus just an act of random violence, these perpetrators said the F sler, the endlur. explained their motive. Yeah, they said, We recognize you specifically, the God from Empire Gay hate crime, bllack hate crime Bea sometimes people just attack people And it's horrible and horrific. And there is no clear cut motive So like you said, uncomplicated. Uncomplicated and then new again, very uncomplicated symbol I mean, well, a complicated but like no no, a complicatedar Yeah clear clear symbol Yeah with a complicated horrific legacy You know, in a lot of like homophobic attacks, the attacker will use the excuse that their victim was like coming ono them which is horrible and like almost always not true does speak to like a real anxiety about sexual safety This time they didn't have to deal with that Very few people are one hundred percent evil or one hundred percent good. So when we deal with actual crimes involving actual people. The narrative can get complicated I don't like this one It's so clear. If you're interested in a complicated hate crime, They made a movie of this, but the documentary is more interesting. Marwin Call, that movie is welcome to Marwin with Steve Carelll, but it's based on a real guy. I have toys It's based on a real hate crime That about a haker? Well, I thought that was about a guy who liked figurines. Yeah, ' ' he was an artist and Okay, I mean, this is a real hate cramp. That's about a hate literally learning this in real time. So add welcome to Marowin Call, Marwin Call on our hoax documentary, hoax film watch It's about an artist who is attacked and he can no longer do his drawings. so he turns figurines into his art and like makes elaborate figurines.. But what's kind of interesting and complicated is he is In my recollection, a man who likes wearing women's shoes, but he's not gay. He's just perceived as gay. Okay. And that's why they think he's gay and do the hate crim, but he's not gay. Okay, it's a horrific attack and it's a really interesting documentary. And it is to the best of my knowledgeent idt in fact happen Wow. Yeah. Watch the Marwin Call documentary, veryy interesting and nuanced I'm losing my mind over here You just thought it was toys. And you're finding out there's a whole hate crime subplot. They advertised that movie with no indication that it was about a hate crime. Yeah. Well, because it is kind of a complicated hate crime because can you do h a gay hate crime against guys not actually gay Okay So again, see, I That's complicated. this isn't Okay And see, this is why we're leaving the tangents in. This is why we're leaving the tangents in. So, okay to get back to the point So this is why people were eager to believe that this had happened is that it cast the world in a very clear good versus evil Late Oh, and they said this is Mga countountry, right? Yeah. That also is like clear villain. Yeah It's all just very like Hey, here's a really obvious thing. I can be against Yeah, show everyone that I'm a good person is I can support Jesse Sollet It's it's so easy to support Justseie Smllett that even Donald Trump can do it. Even Donald Trump can do it It's so easy that you almost don't even look and see that it doesn't make a ton of sense. And also, historians sometimes refer to this thing called the crriterion of embarrassment. It's actually more in ancient religious texts, but it's sometimes used by historians, which basically means given a historical text if someone confesses or writes about something embarrassing, you verge on the side of it being true because you think like, why would they write something embarrassing if it's not true a man being beat up is usually not something that someone wants to brag about Yes. But this is kind of the unique brief moment when there would be maybe some social political capital gained by this publicity. Yes. And he also, I mean, like it being two against one, I think sort of gets him out of Yeah the like embarrassment of losing the fight. Yeah But yeah He can be like, I fought back, but You know, two goods one. Yeah So as I said, there's all these things that people find suspicious, but the The first thing that is like actuallyually suspicious is that Jesie won't turn over his phone Okay. so they want his phone because he says that he was on the phone with his manager at the time of the attack and he says that he has like private stuff on there like his music and, you know, other stuff that he's working on. He later says that and you know, people take photos from private photos from celebrities sometimes. I mean yeah. He later says that like He was doing drugs.. So he just didn't want them to find that out. Yeah. I'm also gonna just Maybe this is none of my business. I'm going to speculate. this is a gay man in Hollywood. Yeah I would imagine that there's material on there from people who are not out. I was going to say the same thing. I was like, this is a gay man in Hollywood. I fully understand why he doesn't want his phone going to the police where all it would take is one person to like leak embarrassing compromising things, like you said on drugs. enngaging with people who aren't out? Yeahes sure So about a week later he gives them a PDF of his phone records. Yeah, but he has redacted some stuff. Yeah, maybe calls to peopleople who aren't out, whatever. drug dealers. Yeah. So he's like Cooperating in quotes. He's cooperate. he's cooperating, but he's cooperating. sure But to this point, I actually am like, I understand that. Yeah The attack itself place right by a security camera, but the camera was like facing the other way. So they don't have footage of the attack, but Chicago has a ton of security but cameras all around. So What the police do is they just collect security footage from all around the area. And just looking at the Google map, there's like a lot of banks around it's like a very commercial area. It's like there's a lot of banks, which seem a lot of hotels. Yeah which have a lot of cameras in the lobby facing outward so you can see if people are passing in front of the lobby So they don't find any footage of the attack but they do find figures two figures who leave the scene the attack and again, it's two AM during a polar vortex. There's not a lot of people around. They're like, this has to be them. Yeah By going from camera to camera, including ring cameras, remember your ring footage is not private They watch those figures get into a cab and go up to the north side of Chicago and that's where they lose track of them. I mean, they're going so they're working to find these guys. Oh yeah. absolutely. This is a In international news story, the cops do not have a good reputation. They want to win. Yeah, they want to find these guys. They want to find these guys. They do not want to drop the ball on a crime against a bllack celebrity in the city of Chicago. Yeah So they can't find out who these people are, so they decide to go like back in time. They retrace the steps they find what they think are the same two figures arriving in the area and they basically run it back. They find those guys getting out of a cab. They retrace the cab They find those guys getting into the cab after getting out of an Uber. Hm. Okay, well, this does sound suspicious And then they retrace the Uber coming from that same area on the north side. Okay. So it looks like These two people got into got into an Uber Tuck it down to sort of near where the attack happened, got into a cab took it to the area of the attack, weaedited around a little bit, did the attack. took a cab back to the North. It does seem like something someone doing a hate crime would do. Yeah. likeike why would you go from a Over to a cab unless you were trying to sort of cover up your footsts. Yeah So they call Uber and they're like, hey we need ridees shaare data. And they say the and again, two A and a poullar vortex Uber says there was only one ride called that night in that area And it was called by this guy, Ola Osandera Ola Osundero is a Nigerian American. They in a lot of press are called like He and his brother are going be be called like the Nigerians. Nigerian American they grew up in America but their families from Nigeria Eola and Bola are the brothers. Th are their nicknames They are Nigerian and so they are like dark skinn black. like Jesse, if you saw him very quickly, you might mistake him for, you know He could be Mexican, He could be something else, Oola andbola, you would not mistake her any other race, they are black. Y And fully around the eyes. Yes, any part of them Obviously Back people can meet up other black people. Yeah. they can be MAGa. And I guess they could shout racial epithets at each other, but it just it does seem unlikely that Jessie would confuse them for white. L it just it doesn't really line up that this would be them This is where the evidence has taken the police, that these are the two guys who The only two guys who are in this area Going through social media, the detectives see that they have been extras on empire Oh. Interesting. They know Jessie Interesting. But they can't do anything yet because the day after the incident, Ola Ebola flew to Nigeria. They're out of the country So the cops do something kind of underhanded, which is that they start leaking to journalists that they have suspicions about Jusie's story. Yeah, that is not great too early. You haven't figured it out yet Especially because you're like, maybe these people knew Jesse and wanted to do a hate crime against him specifically because he said something mean on the set of emmpire. Who knows And this allows them to discredit him without risking their own reputation Yeah, because they're not saying it with their chest. You know, they're letting the media take the fall Yeah People are also more likely to believe a leak than an actual source because it feels like scoop Yeah. It feels like someone is telling the truth off the record that they're not allowed to say on the record And people are really suspicious of the police, but they're kind of trust like a dogged reporter that has the real story Yeah, especially if it's like one cop speaking out. ye record when really this is just cops feeding journalists talking points, that The journalist will have to answer for, but the cop doesn't have to stand behind it. Oh, That's so smart. I never even thought of that. You're so right So yeah, back in twenty nineteen, this is where I personally stopped following the story. I was like, this is not white people's business. Yeah. But it works The tide begins turning, people feel more comfortable saying, This doesn't really add up Mga people don't watch Empire People are not carrying a bleachhing rope with themimit two AM doesn't really seem like skin headads would bothered. doing a whole thing against this guy. Yeah. So Valentine's Day twenty nineteen, two weeks after the incident tells Jessse you need to do some damage control Fx the network that empires are. Yes, yes. And so he does an interview with Robyin Roberts because she is and get And he sits down with her and says, I want people to know that I fought back and I'm not lying He also says that he thinks he would be more believed if he had said that the attackers were Mexican or Muslim Maybe, maybe She says, you know, I want the little gay kid at home to know that he matters. He's very he's like crying and yeah Be a little righteous, but again People can react to things however they want. According to his Twitter, he wants to save the world. He is here to save the world They show him a They show a picture from the security footage of the two dark figures. Yeah And he's like Yeah, see, I'm not making this up. There were two guys in the area that I said, Th two guys did it Okay And the cops are like I'm so glad he said that on national television becausecause those two guys are Ola and Vola. And we are right now at the airport picking them up. Great because they just flew back to the U.S They detain them as persons of interest and they don't say anything until their lawyer gets there. Smart Their lawyer is literally a woman that their mom met when she was driving Uber. I mean, sure yeah She shows them the Robin Roberts interview and she is like, lookook, he's fingering you on National television, you're gonna to take the fall for this. so you should probably start talking Oh, what did they say When it comes to looking your best, Beachbum Tanning does it better. 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This is Bethany Frankl from Just Be with Bethany Frankl. Most dog food is marketing, not nutrition. That is why Biggie and smalls eat just food for dogs, real, one hundred percent human grade food with ingredients, I actually recognize. And yes, I do see the difference better digestion Healthier skin, more energy, dogs that feel better. My babies. If you've been on the fence about switching Stop overthinking it What's more important than your furry babies and their health? Go to just foodfordogs dot com right now and get fifty percent off your first box. No code needed, just try it Let's talk about modern home shopping It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? sccrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen, or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. all from the comfort of pretty much anywhere Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own, but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. 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During the raid of their home, the cops found guns and drugs that they weren't supposed to have So if you are inclined to be anti Chicago PD could say that The Chicago PD used this to coerce a false confession out of the brothers. Okay If you are inclined to anti Jessie you could say that No, they just cut a deal for it. True confession. Y And especially given the context of his phone records were not given over and were redacted That's additional context that is just interesting but also very plausible. Just I'm just gonna report the fact. Okay, the facts. Like I wasn't, you know Metings with the lawyer are privileged. I'm just going to report the facts of what they confessed. Okay, notot how they got the confession because I don't know What they say is They met Jusse on the set of Empire and they became his friends and his trainers and his wheat dealers. They show the cops a text that one of them got from Jesie saying, Hey, I need your help with something on the low likeike a few days before And that text referred to a conversation where he asked them to beat him up. He said that his plan was for them to beat him up near a security camera, and then he was gonna to leak the footage onto the internet to become a poster boy for like Black Lives Matter and gay rights and Brothers also have a check from Jesie for three thousand five hundred dollars So the cops call Jesse down to the station and show him the mugs shhots of Ola and Bola And they're like, hey, we found the guys from the security footage They were the only people in the area on the night of the attack Would you like to press charges against them for aggravated assault And Jesie's like Um I told you it was two white guys and these are two black guys You can't tell black people and white people apart You know, it's very progressive of you.. He's just mad and says no Yeah. The brothers say that Jesse told them what to buy which the cops then leak to a reporter. So then the reporter goes to every store that sells ski masks and sure enough, he finds the store which has a security camera, and there's footage of them of them buying the ski masks You know, it's cold in Chicago, person could just want to buy a mask for their face, but like, It's really looking like their story checks out. Yeah And one of the brothers did call Jesie at one AM the morning of the incident. Yeah And there's like a call loogue of that. And then I mean the final nail in the coffin King speaks. fififty cents calls Jesse a liar fififty cent. fifty cent has wighed in. fifty cents has wighed in He has spoke Oh, and like o, this all yeah, oh my gosh. I understand all of like A What are you groating about it? I just like I know that as a white person, it is not my position to weigh in not on the facts, and I'm very, very grateful that you have restricted yourself to the facts as they are known I just don't like someone taking advantage of a moment where being a victim of a hate crime would lead to attention and publicity. and it feels so chy feels icky, but it's also like No one again, like you said, no one got hurt. Yeah, like If we take away the attttention. and the lake. Social capital and the race of it all. It's like It's just this weird like unt g wrong. It's a stunt gone wrong, but it was a stunt also meant to and you can't take away those things, but if you could it was a stunt meant to tugget at the heartstrings of liiberals and I'm like, Oh you got me. Yeah. I mean, there's a good thirty rock line where Liz is like, my white guilt should only be used for good on't take advantage of my white gilt Yeah. but also like what if you get out of it? No money? L nobody actually did anything with their white guilt. Well you got a Tueadorshia And he got more famous. that had already been booked. Oh, what good for. People just bought more tickets. He got more famous And then he got white got l got infamous unfortunately. Again, the real victims aren't, and this is now me getting on a soapbox. it's not white people who feel silly that they were taken advantage of and tricked It is victims of actual hate crimes that I think then are taken less seriously and are framed a little bit as more of a joke. Like I think that genuinely is the consequence of a hoax like this is it muddies the water for real victims. And we'll get into like if that has come to pass. Yeah. So he's charged with disorderly conduct and filing a false police report. Oh, he's charged. All right He turns himself in and hands over a bond Jesse's whole family stands by him, but other than that, pretty much nobody claims him Yeah, it's it's a tough story, especially once the Olmbola confession. Yeah. they do they confess that Jesie asked them to do this. Yes, ye. ye He's getting made fr of onSNL. he's written out of Empire. Yeah. He goes to set and like apologizes But he doesn't admit anything. He's just like, I'm sorry, this is happening He hires a lawyer from a law firm that represents like Chris Brown and Andrew Tate, but ateever lawyers take the cases they take His lawyer goes on the offensive asking what I think are some pretty good questions, which is Why would he hire black people to pretend to be white people? Why wouldn't he just hire some white people? Yeah you know, to which I would say like probably didn't think they'd get caught, but Still, he didn't think they would caught. he was friends with them. You don't want to like Maybe he didn't have two white people that he was close enough friends with that he would fully trust to flip if the when the pressure came in because it's like when the police If the police figured it out You know, It's still like it's just's a good question. It's a weird, it's a weird decision. And also why would he do this? What's the motive The Chicago PD have a press conference and they say that he did it to get a raise and that he sent himself the threatening letter They have no evidence for either of these claims. Yeah. So like that those are just two things that they state very unequivocally that they will never provide evidence for. I also, I'm like, I have absolutely no doubt that he has been threatened and harassed. Yes. The FBI looks into the letter. they never figure out who sent it and there's no evidence that he that A, this would have somehow led to a raise or B that like he was hard up for cash. So that's just like not a good motive. The only motive you can point to is Publicity and attention. I think that's a much better motive. Yeah, he's an actor. They famously love attention. Yeah I'll say another thing, Wh pays for crimes by check I was going to say Well, because I was going to say they could say, well, he's our we, you know, there where his weed dealer, he was paying for weed, but you would never pay for weed with a check Rich person one on one, get cash. U Jesse's explanation for the check is that it's for training in a meal plan for a music video that he's going to. Well that's also plausible. I would pay for training in a meal plan via check. And literally in the like section on the check is like the name of the Music video. Oh, yeah. L it absolutely checks out He says that the need your help on the low text was about He wanted them to pick up an herbal fat loss drug while they were in Nigeria. Yeah. That's like illegal in the states They were going to Nigeria. It also possible I would also believe that Jesie was just embarrassed and trying to cover up the fact that he wanted like regular illegal drugs Lake even see a world where he says Okay The reason that they came and met up with me at two AM was to like I bought cocaine from them. Yeah. and then alsoso unrelated to that. I got beat up by some white guys. Yeah, I wasn't out just getting a sandwich. I was also buying cocaine. Yeah, I was also buying cocaine. And then later I ran into one white guy who did this thing It was a coincidence. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I'm just making all this up, but I'm like, I would believe that there's some version of it that involves regular drugs. Yeah Very plausible. Yeah I don't know He never says any of that, so whatever. They'll say that they're really mad and that they think that, you know We wish that the murders got this attention instead of this Hollywood thing. I think they're alving though. Oh, I bet they're. laughing it up. They're thrilled. They they're like, look at our good police work. We're smarter than this TV star. That's the thing. when I'm saying the muddying the waters, this like lets the cops have a victory laugh They're like, donon't you dare take advantage of our racial tension. And we have less hate crimes than you thought in Chicago. See one less. Yeah Specifically one less. One less is better than one more In March, he pleads not guilty.ure At this point, Kim Fox has recused herself The lawyer the state attorney. state's attorney Because back when Jessie was the victim, she talked to him. So she's sort of like So she just recuses herself. Yeah So the attorney prorosecuting his case is now a white man named Joe Maggats Maggots? I know And all of a sudden he drops the charges And Jesie agrees to pay ten thousand dollars of his bond and complete community service. Honestly I'm like Yeah, as you should. It's like it's such a messy, complicated situation. you're like, let's not make a big deal of this. It's embarrassing for everyone Kim is still the one who has to go like on Ns shows and explain the decision She says this might seem really strange to people who don't work in the legal system, but it's actually not that strange that the state's attorney would choose not to pursue a class I felony, which is the lowest class of felony. Yeah, it's like what you said it was like filing a false police report. Yeah. Why would they go through this entire rigamoral for up filing a false police report. Yeah She says Cook County has a really high rate of homicide, domestic violence, gun violence, and it's a better use of her time to go after those crimes. And he's not just getting away with it. He did community service and gave up money. And he can put whatever spin he wants on it, but you know, Lots of people do crimes and don't see the inside of a jail cell and he has no criminal record and it's a nonviolent offense. And also, it's like God away quote unquote, got away with it It's a crime that doesn't like hurt people Tangly again, we talk about mudding the waters. Yeah. And the real victim then of it coming out was his reputation Mostly people want to make him pay because they tweeted really cringy statements about lynching. Yeah Making people tweet cringy statements about lyinging is not against the law. It's not against the law Mayor Emmanuel calls it a whitewash of justice. Oh Maybe shouldn't they use that but all right. All right Mayor Emmanuel Their hope was that Jessie would just like shut up. Yeah He treats it like he's been vindicated. Yeah, because they drop the charges and he's like, See yeah, I did it He's like I've been vindicated. This is proof I didn't do it. Yada yada, yada, really rubs everyone the wrong way. He's like, I've been cleared, I've been redeemed. And you know what? I also will say For him being like Okay, so the cops couldn't catch the white people who did this. You mean the Chicago PD couldn't catch the people who did the crime Yeah, sounds about right. Yeah So He's still written out of empire. Yeah is really mad because he had blamed MGa. Yeah. so he's like Jesie's racist against white people. See, this is the thing that it makes it worse The FBI has decided to look into this whole charges drop situation. Yeah His lawyer is like, great, now it's a federal case. He's being double victimized And at the end of twenty nineteen Laurie Lightfoot takes over for Ram Emanuel, and fires Eddie Johnson for drinking on the job and lying about it Things are going great in Chicago Yep, things are always going great with Chicago PD. Yeah A special prosecutor charges him with six counts of disorderly conduct That again, also seems like they weren't quite sure what crime to charge him with because like you're like, is that disorderly conduct Yeah, because you like waste the police's time. I don't like I guess. Yeahah. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer. I mean, I am, but I'm not. He goes to trial He go Okaykay. now he goes I was so checked out. I didn't know this happened This was now we're like in the pandemic. Okay. So we were worrying about other things. We all kind of moved on. Yes. In one of the documentaries I watched, they're like This was Chicago's OJ trial. and I'm like, I don't think anyone was paying nearly that much attention. No, the thing about the OJ trial is people cared The lawyers have a new strategy Hwers which is that they say that the brothers did it because they were homophobic. It is interesting, again Given that there's so much security camera footage that you're like, yeah, if there was another person in this area, we would or another two people in this area, we would have seen them. These are the only two people in this area. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all really dark. You can't see the face of anyone at all. Yeah. So again, it makes sense as a defense where you're like, I guess these were the two people The jury does not go for this, and he is convicted on five of the six counts Wow By now it's twenty twenty two. The officer who killed LeQan McDonald has just gotten out of prison early for good behavior. Oh great He served less than half of his sentence So is the Chicago legal system trying to make an example out of Jesie as a distraction Oh, possible. Because it makes law enforcement look competent and reminds people not to believe everything that sounds really bad It also kind of feels like Like maybe it's not that mastermindy, but it is convenient That's where Iand. like I think that they would manipulate the courts point Kuan McDonald was murdered eight years ago I'm not sure that they are falsifying evidence. And it was a jury trial for for Jesie, right? It was a jury who Yeah I'm not sure that they're making up evidence in the Jessie case to cover up what happened with Laan, but I'm sure they're I don't know, throwing extra resources at the I would believe that they're throwing extra resources at the case. Yeah, they want to at least not humiliate themselves at this point they're in it to win it One month later is Jesse's sentencing So his supporters including the Reverend Jesse Jackson and the actor Samuel L. Jackson, who are not related despite having the same one' name. I mean, I knew that, but I thought it was funny too write letters to the judge asking for leniency in sentencing. They point out that people who are convicted of class I felonies often don't serve any jail time and they find other ways to serve their sentences like house arrest or community service, or you know you can check in with a parole officer, do weekend jail Basically they say, listen, this kid is famous, bllack, gay and had a Jewish dad, he's going to be a target in prison. And he has already suffered a lot. It would be very reasonable for you to find an alternative The white male judge is not having it He orders Jesie to pay over one hundred thousand dollars in restitution twenty five thousand dollars in fines. But he already paid three thousand five hundred dollars for the crime Jesie, you are a liar and a prettender and a charlatan. Oh You are getting thirty months probation and one hundred and fifty days in jail starting now. Wow Did they ever get his phone Jass's Yeah don't know Be I am curious whether they like could, I mean, I guess they got the texts from the brothers. ye It's just very interesting. There's no other smokeking gun text. Yeah Jesse stands up in court and he yells out Your Honor, I respect you, but I did not do this. And as he's being let out of the courtroom, he turns and he yells, I am not suicidal Oh Interesting. They think they're going to kill him to quiet him He thinks they're going to kill him to quight him. He thinks that there's a chance that something will happen to him that like he could get into a fight in jail and that The cops will be so embarrassed that they'll say that it was suicide. Yeah Just like if he dies for whatever reason in jail, that the cops will be so embarrassed that they let this happen to him that they'll say it was suicide to cover it up. And or this guy is so messy and lives for attention and drama Sure. He gets out on appeal six days later. Oh, great. Yeah. So he's granted an appeal and he makes bail. And so yeah In october twenty twenty three, he goes to an outpatient rehab In november twenty twenty four The appeal is still happening and the Illinois State Supreme Court overrules the entire second trial and conviction because The state had originally agreed to drop the charges in exchange for community service and the ten thousand dollars bond. And since he held up his end of the bargain, they have to hold up theirs. Yes. So it's basically the double jeopardy principle which is that you can't try a person for the same crime crime twice So expanding on that, if you agree not to try a person, you can't undo that deal. You already made a deal on whatever crime you think they did. Fair While all of this has been going on, Chicago has been suing Jusie for the cost of the investigation. Okay. And Jusse has been countersuing the city of Chicago This part of the case doesn't wrap up until may twenty twenty five. Jesie donates fifty thousand dollars to a charity and that settles it. So great job, everybody. This is an awesome use of the courts You know what? A charity got fifty thousand dollars, That's good. Yeah I'm happy about that I can't believe how many trials this took. Yeah. And I was just talking about how all the trials for hoaxes were back in the seventeen hundreds. I was wrong about that For the last few years, Jesse has been working a little. He directed a couple movies. He made another album, he was on a reality show. He goes to events sometimes. He talked about the incident on two podcasts and last year he participated in a Netflix documentary. See, that's what's interesting to me because whatever, I mean, I guess he needs to kind of maintain that it actually happened. But if I were Jesse or his publicist or his creative manager, I would say just say, that's in the past. I don't want to talk about that anymore I want to talk about moving forward. This was one night. Ten, almost ten years ago H twenty nineteen twenty nineteen. Okay, almost seven years ago. This was one night, seven years ago I just want to move forward with my life. I think he'll start saying that soon. Yeah The documentary is interesting It goes through the whole thing without ever mentioning the bleach Like bleach that was found on his sweater. Yeah her jacket. That's just like not Heard of it Like they just, that's not part of the evidence anymore. Interesting The documentary makes a lot out of this one bit of security footage Is the documentary pro or anti Jelsey or pretty middle Bal. It tries to present itself as balanced is kind of P Jesie. Okay. because it makes a lot out of the like very little pro Jessie. Evidence. Evidence that like is actually quite weak Okay. It makes a lot out of this one bit of security footage that seems to show one of the two like figures stepping into some light and maybe having lighter skin than the Oceanero brothers But like veryer grainy And it's not high quality footage and like There's just really nothing to suggest that that actually is cold And we actually have actual evidence that these brothers took this Uber and cab. like we know they did come to this area. Yeah. So like until someone explains what else they were doing in that area really isn't And it does not seem from the footage that I'm sure the police combed through that other people another pair of people were in this area Well, so they find these two witnesses. Okay One of them was a doorman at the Sheratan and saw a white guy in a ski mask rununning? Oh, at the time of the incident and is security footage that would maybe corroborate this. and some of this security footage is missing. Interesting And we know from the Leaquuan McDonald case that The cops have the ability to like cover their tracks Deleting footage. Yeah I've also seen people say that like hotel security cameras, like They have lag. like they have like They don't record You know, they just sort of take snapshots. Yeah. So like this is maybe not quite a smoking gun And also it would be difficult to identify someone's race in a ski mask running past you at two in the morning when presumably the doormman was inside. Uh, I think he would he He says that he like shown his flashlight in the guy's face.. I mean, I don't know why this guy would lie. He' a black guy. Yeah So Maybe He was running. I don't think he was running saying I just did a hate crime. Yeah. but When it comes to looking your best, Beachbum Tanning does it better. Beachbum delivers advanced sun and spray tanning, luxury skincare, and an elevated salon experience designed around you. 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Shop now at herero. co code iHart for ten percent off alligures per serving, seeee calor info at eroot. thirty forty percenter cories than regular products calorie cont is reduced on average from one sixty to ninety ceror pering, da accurate as of two There's also a woman who lived in Jessie's building who says that she took her dog out to pee at midnight who says that she saw a white man like Standing on the corner with like a bit of rope in his coming out of his pocket. Oh suspicious Very suspicious. But also like Okay. So he stood there for two hours in negative twenty degrees. Yeah I mean, but again, if you're like fueled by the fire of racism Yeah, I guess it keeps you warm It also is it's tricky because you're like on one hand, the Chicago PD would have when this crime was told to them would have wanted to do everything to solve it right away. if they couldn't and could only link the Nigerian brothers then they would want to cover their tracks to not be embarrassed. I mean, I can imagine a situation where they find the Asandero brothers get a confession and then just stop looking. Yeah. L They're just like, oh, other witnesses came forward, whatever. We don't want to interview them. Yeah The Osenera Brothers have released a book They've gone on Fox News. they have a podcast about what they did. Like they're obviously out for money and attention too. they're not unbiased in their recollection of things. Yeahah They're not necessarily trustworthy narrators Let's get into it. let's get into the theories best way that I can describe lookingoo into this Normal. I feel like One side says, okay Here's hereere's my story. My story is red And then the other side says, Well, my story is blue. And then we talk it through and we find, okay, well, the story is mostly blue, but it's a little purple And then we do another hoax. And it's like one side says, okay, well my story is one And the other side says, well, my story is five. And then we talk it through and I find out, okay, well, it's actually four, you know And we like find the middle ground. ye. And in this, it's like Well, one site says it's green And the other side says it's seven. And find the middle ground between green and seven? Well, because the most generous to Jusse is even if details are suspicious, there's a version of this where he was attacked And you know, he was walking home and he was the victim of a hate crime or not or just a random act of violence. and he Maybe for attention, maybe believed it. fabricated a version that was with more emphasis on that. it was a hate crime against him, that it was, you know, because he was gay and because he was black and because he was on the emmpire. And that's a version where you're like, and then he told details to the police that were a little exaggerated, but he was attacked and a victim of random violence. or but he somehow would have had to a noose with him because there's security footage of him getting home with the noose around his neck. He didn't take it off before he got home. He walked into the lobby the noose around his neck. Oh yeah, he didn't notice. someomehow Well he had it I'm just saying he had it on Like When he left to go to go get some food, he didn't have the noose on. And when he came back, he had the noose on. So his attackers must have had a racial component or he had the rope with him. Well, so that is the evidence against that's like he was the victim of a random act of violence and thenager exaggerated. Yeah. becausecause it's like, you can't. There was a prop. There was a prop. There was planning involved. So did he plan this or did someone else plan this? Right So that okay Neither version makes sense. But the problem is he just went too far. if he didn't have a prop, people would have believed him. L Why would a racist know where he was and wait outside in N a pololar vortex only to lightly beat him up, but also have props But also why would he fake it so poorly? Yeah He thought he would get it. I mean, the answer to why would he takeake it so poorly is he's a celebrity who thought he would get away with it. Jesie in an interview with Variety said that basically All of the li inconsistencies are to further cover up what happened with Lcquon McDonald Oh, don't that's that's this is the part that I like don't want to be on Josie's side because I'm like, don't use this horrific tragedy of a boy who was murdered Yeah, he sort of just suggests it. Okay. He's like And he just sort of ties it together to just sort of cast doubt on the Chicago PD. He's like, well all this stuff about how corrupt the Chicago PD was was coming out. so that's why they kept doing all this stuff to keep my trial in the news and keep my trial going whichich like Yeah, it's icky. He just wants to smear the Chicago PD, but like, I'm not going to sit here and ride for the Chicago PD, but like I don't necessarily disagree that they would use his trial to like cover their misdeeds, but I don't I don't think that doesn't mean that they've just followed the evidence. That' that's the double side of it, the thing that's true, which is that Chicago PD absolutely would have taken advantage of this trial to make themselves look better. Yeah. And that doesn't necessarily mean they were fully lying. Maybe they were just taking advantage of the situation where they're like, o great celebrity that we can make look dumb and look stupid and we can like because if, you know, they just fell in their laps fell in their lams. Yeah. Of course they would take advantage of it