Critique of the Film's Ending

Greetings And welcome to House of R The Ringer Vverse podcast on the Ringer podcast Network I'm Mallory Rubin She is No. Joan V. You either just made a bunch of ASMRs people's day or I'm sure you turn the pot off. A bunch of people turned the pot off. Before we even start, ye, do you want to start by telling people what you did during when we watched first movie together? Yeah, I you know, we had known that the clicking the clicking was coming from the trailers. And so when Emily Blond's character Margare, we will be talking about disclosure today more on that in a second. when she assumed the position in front of the pinkather'orn the weather you know, what's happening? I knew I felt in my bones the clicking is about to Begin. And I turned to you because we were next to each other in the screening And I leaned close, so close to my ear And as if you were about to wh sweet nothing. liipps flush against your ear And I clicked for like fifteen seconds before you elb me. So I literally fe in the chest. I eled you so hard and that was just like An unintentional reaction. It was like a bat of a dodge shooting through a farmhouse But it was like, I deserved. I could not control my limbs in what they did in that moment. Itood a very authentic the chest. I thought it was a shoulder. I'm so sorry. That's even worse. It was like kind of a clavical Yeahah, don't don't have we can't use like muscle groups. We just have to use like I don't really have any muscle skeletal. Yeah exactly. which But you know, one more memorable experience for us at the cinema So that's great. So we're gonna talk about all of that. We're gonna talk about all of that. We're gonna talk about the movie that we're covering today right after this. This episode of House of Aar is presented to you by Target. 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Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets, which expires seven days after receivt. restrictions applies, see full terms at fanDoolot com slash sportsbook Gambling problem call one hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset Okay, Joe, actuallyct before we talk about the movie, yeah, we have And it a mystery of our own to tease. Is it about disclose your days next week. Yeah. Exactly. Is it about alien life? Is it about UFO's or is it about something else entirely? We don't typically keep secrets. You know, the thing we do here on the pod is share everything. Pse everything. T much some would say. everything. For some, certainly do much But we have we have some exciting news. We have a reveal of our own. We can't say what it is today, but we can say what it is on Monday. So Monday is Disclosure Day for us. That's right. Tune into the pod. Yes Listat. Yeah. you like to tune in for Listat to get this Heck Yeah. get check out the social if you're not checking out the little stop. No, but check out the list the little stop. check out the list st but also the socials. it'll be up on the socials. Here's a little hint. Yeah. It's not aliens. No But it is, I think a thing we are doing that is the most could not be more possibly exciting for you, Mally Rubin personally. I couldn't conceive of something that would be more exciting So like drop's a dream come true. Drop your theories. We love Theory Corner. drop your theories about what we are about to disclose to all of you On Monday, it's not aliens. No, all of the guesses are probably going to involve Harrison Ford. It's not a Harrisord. mean we already met at Harrison Ford this year because we'vechieved that dream already Doid you look the yellow? I did Qickly All right, so check that out on Monday We're excited share more than we can't wit. we're really hyped it's going to be a blast ing reminders, Joe, what else are we? aboutt mention you did. Did I mention the sta? You did. Okay mention it again L's st Eles. Yeah. It's amazing. preview that I've added to my vampire costume for some reason. Listen, this is just something we're doing. Dark Knight rises. We have a special pal and a guest who is at our disisclosure dayay screening. Yes, who is coming out the pod. I don't want to say who it is just in case they fall into a hole and it doesn't happen. So Is it Harrison Fford? It's not Harison Ford. He was not at our disisclosure dayay screening U, and then how's the dragon? P Boy, next week, Sheh I watched the first episode. I haven't watched y. I can't wit. I'm so excited.'s at go up. I literally't anything about it. I have' seen it. And then it's hot D season. I mean St. all of it. B busy someere head with' are already here. there' drippy candles in the corner waiting to be wheeled out. so I'm excited. Very exciting. I love I love a candle. We have some flickering candles here with us all the time, which is nice, but it's always amazing when we walk in for Tal to Thrones and the set is like bedcked. It's like walking into the seep . C't you wait for like the sort of flea infested pelts to come out I'm excited. The Inchy skin is a really specific. Th on de air riding experience. I here's how you can follow along if you're wondering if you're like, great, you just told me about the next few days. What if I want to know Ething else that might ever happen, right I'd say follow the pod. Why not? Follow on Spotify Or wherever you get your podcast, you can watch full video episodes of House of our and the Midnight Bys Be on Spotify incredible. And of course on the Ringiverse YouTube channel, so follow there as well, we also have newish Instagram and TikTok handles at House of ourur Pod on Instagram and TikTok. We've been having a blast you can see some ome F friends of the Pod. Th w vampire fangs and stay tuned for an update there, perhaps, and yes, some friends of the pod We take some pictures. We have breakouts from the pods, sometometimes there are graphics. from drafts or lists. Its just it's a great experience. We'd recommend everyone follow along. It'll be a robust. Bust summer, summer Spoiler warning for today. I think obviously the main spoiler warning is this movie, Dclosure Day. We'll be spoiling from the jump. There's no like pre spoiler section. Right away, we'll be talking about what happens in the movie Aliens. It yes. If there's a very long period of like, what's this movie going to be about, then they just put all the aliens in the trailer over the last few weeks and that ceas being a mystery, N not that it was ever much of one I think that we should also issue a spoiler warning More broadly for just the Spielberg canon, because part of talking about this movie is considering some of prior films. I don't really think that's going be an issue for people. I think people have seen like ET in close encounters But. Bridge of by might get spoiled for you. might get spoiled for you Well, you can hear the Baltimore. The post, the post. Oo, the post. We're going down to the ocean, Han to talk about journalism. All right, that's it. thoseose are the spoiler warnings, those are the programming reminders. That's the tes about a special announcement still to come. Hobinson targs to gmail d. comot I should say theist that emails have been robust in the inbox. We have no disclosure to emMails. so I am curious if the bad babies like this movie. We have not heard from any of them. So we're recording on a Friday morning Presumably some people saw it on Thursday night. Not as many maybe as read home to email us weird But you have the whole weekend to do, so. I care to know We we to the opening snap shot? Let's do Okay, Disclosure Day, directed by an exciting up and coming filmmaker, as Sean likes to joke. It always makes me laugh when he says that great Seaan Ben, Stehven Spielberg. Oh. A real Eveod of.. It's T time to bring that back. We've got Rings of Power coming in a few months. We're back in Eveod of Mad season. written by David Kapp. This is the Ladriel here.orryadriel here. Oh I miss that U Is Galadriel here in Hot Saaron who fucks, just what a time, what a time to be a Rings fan and we're gonna be we're going to be back in that world soon. It it's It's L of the Ringss fall is. I have a lot of plans. It sure is. This movie was also scored by someone else you might have heard of. John Williams. How old is he He is his eighties. He is quite old. Yeah, doinging great. Steven Spielberg had to like beg him to do this movie and guess what? The score of this movie rules. scores scpt I don' know who's Johnilliams Johnilliams and his Mary band of like assistance or whatever, but whoever was in the mix here sounded great. Alwayss a delight to have a Jon Wiams score and when he and Spielberg worked together for what Hm thirty sometimes now. Is all right It might be. Is it thirty kilocks?? I think it might be. Certainly more than like The high twenties, that's always a treat. This movie is two hours and twenty five minutes L Long movie. Long movie. Now we do long podcasts. so we're not here to we're not here to knock a runime, but we're observing it, observing it with interest, noting Joanna Again, it's Friday morning, so we don't have the distance we sometimes have this has become more common for us, I will say, the Friday pod. I maybe it'll just be what we do moving forward. Who the fuck knows? Obviously a lot of that is schedule dependent and screening dependent and everything else. We sometimes know what was the box office yield. We've got more of the score check ins and stuff just for a barometer or not that we ever put too much stock in that, Early still, however, just a quick kind of temp check Rotten tomatoes, deeply flawed metric. Thank you Eighty two and seventy four on the old popcorn meter for the viewing public. Metacritic seventy four. We didn't see a cinema squarer yet by the time we yet posted. at the pod. Yeah. Box office tracking also just way too early to say, but the indicators are that this is tracking for like thirty five million domestic sixty five Global, the movie had a one hundred fifteen million dollars budget So What's your assessment of those stats I would say They Warmish, fun, fine time at the movies, sort of R reaction? Yes. a not a hard negative some people really dislike this movie. Yes. and some people love this. And some people love this movie, though even the people who love this movie, I do not think would put it in like top rankings of a Spielberg movie. That would be a I would be actually fascinated to see what the case was. That would be a wild move. But yeah, I think some people really enjoyed themselves and it felt of nostalgic to them, then some people are like, Hey, man. There's many times this plot makes no sense. Yeah. Andes. So I think that's where you get seventy four, right? Yeah. I was curious after the critic score came out and the reviews started surfacing this week to see whether the audience response was more favorable, less favorable, comparable because you kind of could see it going either way or people are just so delighted It's always an event when there's a new Steven Spielberg movie. And it's been like almost half a decade since Sielman. That's actually a long time between Spielberg films, right? Sure It's certainly been a long time since he has returned to what is a central focus line of his work, which we'll talk about more in a few minutes, the idea of alien life, the idea of visitors on Eth specifically, et cetera. We'll talk about where our disclosure today kind of fits into that Ura. I am not surprised. Those numbers feel right to me. I think the like let's transition into like what we thought of the movie here is our quick opening snapshot before we delve into the deep dive into some of the more particular aspects of the story and what was successful and what worked less well. I think there is like a lot that is pleasurable about sitting in the theater and watching the movie and a lot, as you noted on the story front that sparks the old think and face emoji of response. And I think the one thing I'm most interested to continue to talk to people is more people like just see the film and they're just natural discussions in your life with your friends, your family, et cetera The thing I'm personally most interested to track and the thing that I am ultimately personally bumping on the most. is I go back to the well if there's not more that feels like fresh and new to say. that surprised me with the movie. Like the one of the first things I said to you guys when we left the screening was Did anyone else think there was gonna be like more there there? Right. And I did have fun at the movie, ultimately and like I think some of it worked quite well as you actually chase propulsive slurping anding my ear And getting very contusion on your t. very memorable. But yeah, I'll share more of my overall thoughts in a second, but give us your snapshot. What did you what did you think of Disclosure dayay, your number one draft pick the House of our hype draress. So yeah, let's talk about that. So this is my number one draft pick. I was really excited by the narrative that the studio itself wanted to build, which is We are so back. We've never been so back. You Spelberg back doing, you know, he made Westide Story, He made Fablmans, he made, you know, Brrighty Player one, like ost, I like the post, but like a lot of his movies and late have not been like overwhelmingly well received. you know, I mean, Westide Story has its you know, champions and also are outed both, you deserve that Oscar. But But this sort of like return to form, this this is yeah, this was the approach from Universal was We're going to do a Spielberg retrospective at South by and Sean's going to moderate. Steven Sielberg is not only going to show up on the rewatchables, but like a bunch of other podcasts.s's doing the podcast like raing's great. Aazing. amazing rewatchables appearance. But what the discussion has been Um over the last like couple months and the lead upp has not been like What is this movie, but the Spielberg sort of legacy, right? And U I definitely like I definitely bought into that. when I put it in my number one hype draft, I was like really excited about it. And then as I've mentioned on the pod, I found it like very od that they were not early screening it for people. I've talked about that just from like a marketing point of view. So I was wondering, like it was just a puzzle I was trying to solve. I was like, is there something else there?es that they're hiding that is like an extra special aspect of what this movie is that they wanted to keep a secret from everyone. you know? Sean didn't see it until we saw it, you know like people, you know, inside the studio, toadpers who usually see it, like hadn't seen it. And so and then we saw it and And I was like, Nope, that was just what we thought the movie was. And so I think instead it was them trying to keep the focus not on what the movie was itself, but just celebratinges, Spielberg himself And I think we all wanted we all wanted because it's been a while. Yeah. a movie that felt like it could be ranked at the top of Steven Spielberg's. filmography, Ken can Steven S Fielberg give us something that could crack his top ten of movies ever here late in his career. You know, and I wanted that we I think we all wanted that for sure. I do not think we got that. Oh. I would say I had I had a fun fun time sitting next to you.. We will praise Emily Blunt's performance several times on this podcast. John Williams score hitting a lot of nimble camber workk that only Steven Spoelberg is capable of.. But in general, I would rank this actually pretty low on my Steven Spoelberg rankings. and I would say We are not so back is not is not what I would like Spielberg and making Felmans, I think, and just sort of like making this movie that was like about him and about his life was trying to have that moment several years ago Um and trying to have that moment again. L I think he and Universal, which is like his home studio really want to have this like Stielberg a master across his entire filmography. sort of like when Mad Max Fury Rade came out, we're like, wow. George Miller. Yeah. You still got it. That's incredible Yeah. Thim made Furiosa and we're like, sometimes, you know? And so I just don't think this achieved and maybe that's unfair expectations, but I feel like that's the expectations that were set by the way it was ushered into the world. Do you know? Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because obviously it is impossible, even absent that maybe like engine of encouraging everybody to think that way and invite that collective shared moment. And it is fun to have something to collectively look forward to his movie. Yes, obviously It's like actually think Somet something I'm noodling on and I will reassess over time. It's much easier to appreciate the movie in a total vacuum than inside of the Legacy is filmography. This is something you say where you're like when people, when like IP or whatever invoke the larger whatever, they do themselves a disservice because I film, you know, this morning I rewatched while I was getting ready My favorite One of my favorite S spielberg movies, which is Indiana Jones the last yearusay. Yes. because I was thinking lot about the themes of religion and how they apply to this movie and we're going to talk about that. So I was like, I'm gonna you know what I'm gonna put on my One of my all time favorite movies ever Yeah. Steven Nwork has directed now. I of my all time favorite movies ever Last Crusade and Dast Park. Yeah. And you are a huge ET Rer. you know, like mean Yeah. Last Crusade for me as well. closing encounters. Clos encounters. you know, So like saving private Ryan. D Ovious the airport. I massively respect him. likeike massively respect Um But to your point Are they doing is he doing himself and are they doing themselves a disservice by invoking close encounters? invoking ET, you know Yeah, I think that he, you know The top ten and everybody's top ten varies a little bit, but obviously there's some consensus around Spielberg's bestest movies because they are also some of the best and most important and influential movies ever made. That is just definitionally going to be a tier that is veryer hard to crack U So I've seen the movie twice. We saw it a few weeks ago with a lot of our Ringer pals, media pals and I fun watching it. I think the action of the movie, the filmmaking is like really gripping, You know, some of the wonners, the swinging cameras, there's some the cast is full of performers that we love and some of the performances from those actors are just like Amazingly good. L Dly blond performances you already know, it is reallyally wonderful and like incredibly pleasant to watch. I just like excited Blint is actually delivering what I wanted from Spiilberg, which is like I actually didn't know Emily Blint still had that in her. Yes. There is something unlocked in that performance that is like varied and multifaceted and just really delightful and it gives entertaining. Yeah, the spirit of play, R. And so you're parsing very challenging and interesting and deep ideas about not only our role in our Relationships, families, communities, jobs, but un in the universe, but you're like making us laugh while we're doing it. We're swinging through states in the geography of this like deep Americana moving from the political seat of like the Virginia, Maryland, DC area, but then still in a very close encounters way rooting in the like, you know Missouri, Indiana, Heartland That all I thought was like very effective, really good The I have like a lot of questions about the alien stuff and at the end of the day, it's not just an alien movie, it is a conspiracy movie. But I think that it like feels Not only like it doesn't move the UFO can and forward. And again, some of those are the best movies not just the S spielberg has ever made, but than anyone has ever met. That is how I feel about ET and close encounters. O obvly that as I should say not how I feel about warar of the worldorlds. But we're kind of just actually, let's transition into the deep dive here. becauseuse this was going to be the first thing we talked about. E you want hit something else and we can come back to the film which is like my question. I was looking at his filmography And I was looking at likeike where I think it's shifted. Yeah, sure. And I have said this for years that I that I always say that like catch if you canana mininority repeport, which came out the same year are like the two last like Yeah, for me. G mo I fucking love those movies, right And then everything after that, you know, there's things that I can admire Lincoln or Munich or whatever, but like There's like nine eleven happens, and that's what War of the Worlds is a reaction to is nine hundred eleven. And so I was wondering, I'm like Did something fundamentally change for Spuberg after nine eleven, that like Um, you know, changed the kinds of stories you wanted to make or XY Z Or did we fundamentally change you know, to make it American centric as a country And I like are we too cynical now? Like the ending of this movie Yeah is is so twenty years ago or more that it's astounding. It feels so old fashioned and weird and I'm like, wow, are we too cynical for the earnestness of You know, that we used to respond so well to in a Spielberg movie Yeah. Or is there someone else who's making that kind of earnest wide eyed wonder sort of storytelling that I couldn't think of anyone.. Hobins and Dragons atjml. com if you have some answers to this, but I was like, I can't think of anyone who's like peddaling that kindind of wonder and are we as an audience not able to receive it anymore. I don't know. So on the audience front, I think On my second viewing I just saw it with the G The Jen pop public went to go to Thursday? It did went with Adam. A Thursday, late afternoon, early evening showing the multiplex Oh yeah and People seemed like they were having a great Yeah. L that's really, really good time. That's what Carlo said, our producer that his screening was like really into it and stuff like that. There is the sort of like LA Bbble first aspect and also that the maybe the people who are Inclined you want mayaybe they're likely to be most disappointed, but also most inclined to say, I'm just delighted to be watching a Siberg movie. Like the guy next to me was I thought maybe having one of the best two and a half hours of his life. I love. Everyone in the theater clapped when the movie ended. L there was a round of applause before people got up and left their seats, even when the lights came on to indicate there's nothing coming after the credits. like you don't have to wait. we're sitting there clapping. I do think that there will be plenty of people who love the movie and there were things in it that I quite enjoyed, and I'm glad that We have a new Spielberg movie. I'm always glad when we have a new Spielberg movie. The Hope Corps thing, like, I think that there's something really aspirational about the commitment to saying. We can unite as a combat fake news whatever case may be and lay down our arms and you know it struck me in a way that I think we like are kind of forced to acknowledge maybe our cynicism on this front I think a lot of people will feel this way about it, ultimately. it struck me I really agree with what you said about the kind of twenty years ago thing. This movie coming out twenty years ago, I think people meet it very differently. It does not to me in a few different ways feel of the moment and like of twenty twenty six. The local news broadcast news aspect, but the just way the cuality of the world received I think there's something like, it's not like your hope core, right? I mean, obviously and this is a through line of Spielberg's work, there's the like More often than not in a Spielberg movie Right And this is not true in War of the World, but that's not his story. That's an HG Wells story that he directed an adaptation of. That's not the same thing It's like he's like, I want to tell the story in close encounters. I want to tell the story in ET. I want to tell the story in disclosure day. These are from his mind. The aliens tend to be the good guys or the friendliies, the misunderstood, and the people are bad The people are the villains. And so this idea of like who is holding and keeping secrets, We'll talk about that more with the Noah Scanlland character, Wardex There are plenty of interrogations of the failings of humanity, but the movie ends in a place of like We can all rally around the recognition that this is bad and wrong and the treatment of these visitors is bad and wrong. in a way that didn't Lamentably didn't strike me as credible I know. Especially when an aspect of the story is like seduction and abduction of children and like traumatizing them. Y and likees and taking over like taking control of them Yeah in a way that is just sort of like actually fairly sinister. Like ET is not sinister to me at all, but this is fairly sinister. Like when I watch the footage at the end of this movie, I'm like these poor visitors, how could they be treated thus by, you know, our shady organizations and stuff like that, obviously. when the like, you know, they wheel out the sort of like decreupit old, you know, Yes alien you know, I want to believe. I want to believe that that that, you know, they wish us well But like the story itself has aspects that contradict I don't know Tell your point about Hopecore It's that moment in the film. everyone. around the world, which is impossible. But like let's just pretend.es. everyveryone around the world is both watching this and believing it and is changing something fundamentally in them. And I was thinking about I really like when that happens in a movie. We recently watch The Martian. everyveryone on earth is cheering for this one man to get home. or like in the nineties like the Truman show or TV like these moments where likeone everyone's watching and everyone's rooting for something. We are all united in something. This doesn't exist in this other twenty twenty six movie, but I think I think Project Hll Mary has like this hope Core aspect to it, but it's not asking us to buy into the larger good of the world, but like what can these two individuals do if they open themselves up to something versus like My absolute cynicism about the state of humanity right now just like really banging in my head at the end of this movie, unfortunately. Whereas tears streamy down my face, bigig smile my face during Project Hale Mary. Yes Yeah. So I don't know. it's interesting. I'll be so curious. what the sort of like enduring legacy of this movie is, if the audience that you saw it with yesterday is the general like reaction. if this feels like it endures beyond this opening weekend sort of moment Or if it will just be like a seventy four fun F time at the movies that I don't really that feels more. the latter feels much more likely. And I think like some of that is because what will the conversation around it be? when will people come to it? What will they find to then like recommend it in it to recommend? And you know one of the things we talk about this across many of our movie pods in particular, but also like with an episode of TV I tend to have an experience where I'm like, I watch something for the first time and I' I mean sometimes I'm like, I genuinely loved it. sometometimes I'm like, what the fuck was that Often I'm like there's a lot to process on first viewing, and I look forward to going back to it a second time to really figure out how I feel about it. That's a luxury that we have as we're prepping for our podcast I often find myself appreciating something more the more I go back to it That's not what happened for me here in part because of what we've already outlined, which is like So much of my first viewing was really like What is the what is the insight the big idea Yeah that remains to be discovered in the final act of this film didn't come Right. And so then it's like, okay, I did still a lot of first says we'll talk later about how hurtful this has all been. L I'm cracking up in my seat, right? When Emily Blunt, when Margaret is begging Whitet Russell Jackson to just run over cell phone. I'm like this is just a fucking great time at the movies You know, there's a lot that is like really pleasant to just sit in your seat at the theater and watch and it feels good to have that experience. But because I knew actually that there was nothing more for the film Disclosure Day to disclose to me ultimately, then I found myself actually slightly more hung up the second time around on the floog So I think like On balance, I He se four Yeah, again, that feels right to me. Like I enjoyed the movie and I do really like thinking about it kind of intellectually as a continuation of this core text and aspect of existence that Spielberg is so interested in returning to. That's fascinating to me. think My favorite thing about it, which is what Universal wanted me to do is like how it's made me think about Spielberg and what I loved in them and what he did so well. likeike why was this so much more effective? These various themes and there's so much in here like a One of my professors in college when we were studying Shakespeare, she said I remember this because we made fun of it forever. She's like, in his last play, notot that this is not Spielberg's last movie necessarily, but she's like in his last play, the Tempest, Shakespeare put in everything, including the kitchen sink. and we were just like, what are you talking about What you want to say is that he put a little piece of all the things that have been interesting to him storytelling wise over his playwriting career into the Tempest including the kitchen sink was a really weird thing to say because there's no kitchen sink of this place. Anyway, regardless That's how I felt here, you know, we'll talk, you know, we can get into the deep dive, but like the UFO's, the religiosity, the like the role, you know, the filmmaker and the storyies Yeah. I how we underood the shadowy organizations, the way it's a chase movie, the way it's a journalism, movie, like all this other stuff.m like here are, you know little appreciationations when I was talking to our Pell Eric Voss outside we were talking about. the train sequence. And I was like, it was kicking last Crusade for me and he was like, with he was like with the pianoos, it was kicking Fabelman' for me. He's like, there's the pianoos, there's hisound pianos. And I'm like, yeah, it's just all In there. This is just sort of like a memory patrick quilt of the entireness of of his career, but the quilt itself is not as interesting as any of these individual or the best of these individual patches, you know? reallyally agree. Let's get to the deep dive in linger for just another moment on fire Spielberg masterpiececes loved him. All newews Sundays at nine, exclusively on AMC and AMC plus. I st. I'm a rock star now an Rice'smortal Universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history. Thousands of f. I want millions. Mym Fanrice is the Vampireless dot. All new Sundays at nine exclusively on AMC and AMC pllus. stream now. This summer, Fandool is the best place to bet on goals. Including equalizers. Uhuh Bo? Y, headters. Every goal is worth more on Fanool. So let there be goals. New customers get three hundred fiftyteen bonus bets guaranteed when you bet five dollars for seven days. twenty one plus in presence and select dates. First online real money wager only, minimum five dollars wager required for seven consecutive days, five dollars first deposit required. Bonus issue at non withdrawable bonus bets, which expire seven days after receipt restrictions applies, see f term at fanDool dot com slash sportsbook Gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My resSet This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile homeome run derby is right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and all sports baseballs. Biggest slugggers. along with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizzo, Bs, Sabbathia L Duncin Yeah Hunter Pence, Matt Fast Kirzian a whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact You swing History. Iaged this is who Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park In Philly, watch the T mobile H rununs Derb be live on Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific Okay, so disclosure dayayss place in the Spielberg filmography.. and specifically in the aliens have come to Earth, Cana. And it's worth, I mean, I think everyone knows this, but worth emphasizing, it's always aliens coming to Earth, right? These are earthbound stories. These are stories about us in our homes, in our living rooms, in our kitchens, in our backyards or in the farhouses for sure our farh in the cab dog door through the kitchens that barry just crawl out of reckoning with our place in the universe. Yeah, right. And That that is something that I'm really like enjoying thinking about over decades now. Yeah. of fil L Close Mers came out in seventy seven, right? ET came out in ' eighty two. War of the World' not a movie I particularly enjoy, came out in zero five. R. Did you rewatch it? I did. I reatched three of those You know, actually I rew I watch some of the physical media boys, Adam has, you know, everything on all of these on four K, obviously. And the cllose encounters one had some fascinating like bonus features of just Spielberg talking about that movie. is you know, obviously, as you noted, he's been doing the pod circuit and everything. and it is so interesting to hear like the way he talks about Um not just his interest in alien life. and obviously this is something he's thought about since he was a Small child, right? but also the way he thinks about science fiction This is really interesting. Like if you go back to watch some of these close encounters want your person your ranking on these. And so Chal school on the ET on the on the ET. Crystal Skull is also, you could definitely say like an alien movie, right? But that's different. It's an indndie movie more than it's an alien movie. I haveve not seen Firelight that like very early movie, but as I understand it, that is also a alien movie It's not aliens at the end of AI, even know a lot of people think it is. This is not. I wasking about this last night. That's not ali.es Sul stands out to you now and in hindsight about C cllose E encounters or ET two of the best most important movies ever made and just in general, what Spielberg has explored in each of those stories W in the world as well. Crystal Skull, if you prefer. Clos encounter is by far away my favorite. I watched it actually a little late and there's a couple of Spielberg cllassics that I came to a little late U in my sort of like Film stududies life, Jaws actually, I kind of watched a little later. And Sam Sam actually. And I saw close encounters as a re release on the big screen. and I was just like over. Oh my w. I've never seen it on the big screen. I'm jealous. Girl is playing this. I have tickets, Dam No, but let's go It's playing this summer It's playing on Father'sdayay actually, which I think is really funny. at the seventy Millimeter festival W watchatch close encounters' can gonna be in to now. maybe. I know that's right lad. That's right. I keep I keep inving you to movies down. All right, anyway We're gonna get her to laabyrinth, and we're gonna get her right. These are the kind of movies that here in LA. they just wna constantly replay and rep. So we'll put an alert out for a closeer patters and you and I will go and hold hands and go like, love to you know and cry. I love that movie. I was just amazing. I was just completely overwhelmed by it Um And I know ET is very important to you. O of my favorites. Yeah So I guess I was curious I mean in terms of what it wants to say, I think In looking back at all of these Spielberg movies as I have for the last couple of weeks. like pursuit of Who are we? Who am I? Am I Peter Pan? Am I, you know, am I a monster or am I someone who can like these people during the Holocaust. Do you know like who am I? How often am I staring at my own reflection, tryrying to figure out who I am? And isn't that like the great big question that storytellers should be asking, whoo am I? Who are we? yes. And what is our role in all of this? And as it pertains to aliens Or religion, it's sort of one and the same in a certain degree for and it's also like bad dad stuff. Always. for Spielberg, right? Al God bad Dad aliens Yes, question mark, bad dad, good dad. you know, k to childhood. you know, all of that sort of stuff. And so That's so interesting to me, but I'm curious for you like because you know, I've known you long enough Nearly five years now. longer, but like we' worked together for nearly five years and known each other intimately and deeply for half a decade and more casually before that You often talk about ET in the context of like dorce the divorce film sort of like U, but I'm curious Do you believe It aliens? Oh of course. ye. Okay. abbsolutely And do you want like even if you don't like do you want to believe? like what is it that's interesting to you to think about that Yeah, I To me, not a scientist. Uh, not an astronaut, not a UFologist. Not an Uologist. U It just has always seemed to me completely improbable and even impossible And with respect to anybody who feels the other way about it, completely like ego maniacal to think that we are the only beings in the universe and it's exciting. and of course, like as a lover of sci fi, book shows, movies, all of it alsoso daunting and scary. And one of the things I love about the genre of space Eploition, We talked about a lot of this a lot with like space movie month And this is obviously like a slice of that. Not every space movie is an alien movie think about what an encounter would be like. you know, part of why you've touched on this a little bit already with the Project Haail Mary point, but like part of what I really love about ET, part of what I love about Project Hail Mary, Part of what, even though the end of this movie in particular like doesn't really work for me, I still admire as like an impulse, I think, and maybe like a commitment to exploring a possibility. Yeah is the idea that we could Right to reckon with how small and infinitesimal we are and that that might unlock a greater connection and sense of purpose and shared belonging and possibility and not just have to spell our immediate doom and destruction. You know, when we talked to Um Andy Weir on this podcast on this very podcast sitting right there about Project H Mary and just his work overall and his his thoughts about these kinds of stories overall. He invoked three body probleblem and Dark Forest is I was thinking back to our coverage of season one of that show and us actually like not I not read beyond yet and not really wanting to get into like what Dark Forest is, but I think it's like Okay to say this, this idea that Andy Weir set on the Project Hill Mary interview of like just the kind of core thesis behind the three body trilogy that The universe is akin to a dark forest and every other life form and race and population is there, but hiding from discovery because if someone else is out there, they have to kill you before you can kill them. I fascinating. and I'm really excited to see like the next season of that show and to, you know, keep reading those stories. I think that is like Um er upsetting to confront, but strikes me as like a credible thesis, right? I think the idea that Grace and Rocky could come across each other out in a quest to save their respective civilizations from certain peril and decide that they would be able to do that more wholly and more successfully together and also that they would care about saving each other more than anyone else at the end is like so lovely and heartening. And I like that the genre allows us to explore all of those things. What I love about that is that The human impulse You know Ryolland's impulse. is he sees a UFO, different a different ship and he's like,h, I don't want like hiding, Siding scary What is coming out arere you throw a bom at me? What are you throwing a weapon? What I get an ET do the first time they see each other scream? Yeah, but it's like Rocky's Yes desire connection and understanding and finding an environment that they can both coe exist in and a way to communicate with each other and like all that sort of stuff like that. is Yes, totally. Forges that bond and builds that bridge, but the human impulse to mistrust mistrust in the dark Fororest and all of that I love thinking about you, because there are so many Perfect Stelberg movies Yeah. people say what their favorites are. Like I, you know, I was on the big pick both Westide Story and Fablemen's where we were like talking about like ' that was a kajillion years ago, but like talking about guys did a ranking. We did a ranking of Spielberg and I had to like fight to get Last Crusade towards the top and stuff like that. was important work. Very important to me. And to me as well. I'm glad you stood your ground. But you know, like for some people, it's jaws and for some and I just like like thinking about why for you, Mally Rubin It's these alien movies, the close encounters in ET specifically. Yeah. notot that they're the only ones, but those are the ones I hear you talk about a lot. and I just think that's funun to think about is like almost like a, you know, a Myers Briggs of S movies for. It's hard for me. I like would probably put raiders I don't know, it's almost impossible to do the top hand. Like Raiders would probably be second for me, actually before close encounters, I think But the top four for me is definitely Raiders Last Crusade, cllose encouters ET. And then it's just a really crowded field from there to get to ten, and you're like, damn, can this can we extend from five to ten from ten to fifteen? And then you know, you've made your peace with it. Like I also love Jurassic Park and that was a really formative movie for me when I was young. Like you, I came to Jws later, but was certainly appreciated. you know, safe and private Ryan, I remember like the first time I heard the air leave the lung. you know, I love Mority airport. Like's, Sindler's list. list Obviously really long. ET is like a seminal movie in my life. I think what you mentioned about the child of divorce stuff and like that being a genre I really love overall. but like I don't know. there was something even even bigger than that. I mean, yes, the idea and obviously Spielberg over the years has talked many times very beautifully and openly about this like imaginary friend and why he wanted to tell the story about this imaginary friend who was such a central part of him navigating his own childhood, right? And feeling a feeling of loneliness And The idea that an alien could wind up in your yard. and become your friend and that the connection could be literalized in that way, right? whereere your're like life forces were meldted. As you know, my big note on ET has always been Reese's pieces ot a fam. Dgusty I'm not a fan. But the thing I was actually going to mention earlier about the cllose encounters commentary that I was like Oh yeah, it was just And I think that Spielberg has kind of amended this a little bit over time, but basically he's like, I don't really think of it as science fiction because it's facted to me Like it is just as it's a fact that that these Other beings beings are out there Really interesting, right. Now we love to obviously invoke the, you know Magic is like Science, we just don't understand yet or My Clark idea, obviously. but ET you know, the idea that like The way that the bedroom, Elliot's room in the closet the kids rooms in particular became this It was the most perfect kind of heightened version of like a fort you could build, like a castle you could build and a sandcastle you could build. how you could use like a clubhouse in your yard or anything like that. The idea that your space could become the center of How your imagination could be given form was just always like so inc incredible, you know? And even like the asshole kids, theike you know, Mike's friends who were like dick's to Elliot at the beginning when he wants to get into the campaign and they won't let him go get the pizza, E they at the end and veryary now to us, like, you know, stranger things, kids on bies, You know, obviously the core Amble in fashion E they are rattling around. And that's, I think the other thing actually through the lens of Disclosure dayay that's interesting to track across the movies is like H Be there's some of this disclosure dayay. This is also part of what makes it feel like out of time and I think not a successful way is there's like clearly an interest in the like seventies paranoid thriller, which is great. and is a genre of a film we love love. The way that that would maybe manifest in modern society though, I think is feels out of time in this movie. like This is also a through line, right? The jangling keys, the adults in ET other than obviously, momom Until the end, until the third act, are never seen. We don't see their faces. We just see the threat of how big they are. They're bigger than Elliot. can see fuckre bigger thaner. And then to realize that Peter Coyote's character is not just this jangling key threat, but is like, I don't want him to die either is a real moment of revelation, right? It's a version of the. Yeah what what inform for his character the way he says like I've wanted this. This has been my dream since I was ten to like meet an alien, right? What will Elliot's version of that be when he's older, et cetera You know, obviously for a long time when the trailers for Disclosure Day and the marketing started to come out, there was in part, I think, because of you know, the farmhouse, which is not literally the close enncounters farmhouse, but looks so much like it int Sean when that like and it's, I you know, they as a Marylander, I was delighted that we got like name checks for silver springs and Ssych. So like this is not in this is not thelose encouters house. that's not Indiana even though we do go to Indiana elsehere the movie But like there were plenty of people who were like, is this going to be like an actal Is this going to be like about like Barry or other people who like had this thing happen to them? and then Where are they now and what have they done with that defining experience in their life? That's obviously not not c What it is ye. But yeah, the adults and, you know, the government, the idea that they're like, let's tell them there was a around Devil's Tower, the toxic gas leak, like, you know, at the end of the day, the group of people who are amassed at Dvil's Tower communicate in another smaller moment of revelation to me was never quite as like I think in part because I was so much younger when I saw IT is realizing that Jengle Ky Man didn't want to kill ET. But We're communicating with music and sound and light and the goal is to commune and understand. And when the aliens open the ship and walk out, they're not like gunned down, right? There's also a little bit of, oh, you thought. And they do lie and they tell people that there's a toxic gas leak that's going to kill them so that they flee and they try to gaslight. know Roy into like gangs PCP. Exacts not vampire . The version of that in this movie is like Noah Scanlan sitting down suddenly at the end and conceding defeat, which I was befuddled by completely. Terrible. There's no You just can't that measures up to the other versions. I have relatable contckent. defeated by just being like tired. Yeah. And I get a snack, need it now. It's bad storytelling, but it is relatable content to me. It's really stupid There's like some extreange extraordinarily stupid moments in this movie. And that's one of them. But I also I love this is a chase movie. You mentioned likey paranoia for the thriller, but like go all the way back to like Sugarland Express I got a great delight in the fact that Wyatt Russell, Goldihan' son is in this movie. And he's wnders wonderful and starars. And then like Emily Blunt is doing this kind of like Daffy Goldihan, like private Benjamin Liberty Jiv performance and a real compliment, compliment compliment. like fantastic. the duo that I talked about that I love Minority Report and Cash you Can, incredible iconic Chase movies, you know, everybody runs. like, you know, it's just like I love that The pace of the movie is sensational. Well. until the end I disagree because I think there's like It's two a half hours. Yeah And there's like an entire subplot. religious stuff, which I think is yes interesting, but not well executed and you could easily slice it out and you would have a Trim S Fvelld' little movie For sure no. By the pace of the movie, I don't literally mean the pace of the two and a half hours of storytelling, which we should come back to in a second on the script from And talk about our feels for pulse the pulse. Yeah becausecause its we start at Media Rz with the wrestling match. And it doesn't slow down. We don't have like an opportunity to catch our breath. So you're kind of just like, leaning in on the edge of your seat because it is such a it is a train moving down the tracks towards some sort of confrontation or crash and calamity in its own right. And that was effective. I agree with you, the balance and success. And also it's a movie where we are moving between until they they unite, the diad and the force. The diet and the force. That was another great moment seeing this together and leaning to each other. It's like you exact same there are two of you. There' always been two of you. We turned to each other.'re like for I the fuck like did to watch the movie We didn'tll it but we did whisper it. whisper loudly. Fair aionately.air, fair enough. Okay, so Cheses movie, great. Y. You know, with the John Williams score, great Kids lonely kids, kids in isolation. I wrap my arms around some of Spielberg's supposed failures. Empire of the Sun is like a really important one I love that movie. And or like Or like when it gets kind of goofy and daffy, like when when the when the bad guys are being dragged around by invisible forces, it's just it's like it's It's hook. It's funny. You know what I mean? You know what it' actually like seventy five times. L hook So like, you know, there's again, some patches on this quilt really fucking work for me. and then you know, overall, it's bit threadbare. Well, let's talk about one of the people who was tasked with assembling that quilt. David Kep. what does she make of the script of this movie? And also this is another moment for reflection and retrospection because They have worked together. Spielberg and Kap have worked together on a number of films, right Capis the Credit is one of them. veryer Jurassic park hereere at the Ringer and here at House of our The lost world Co and Jurassic Park never understood the flow of those words in that title. Y. Wor the worldors Crystal skull And now disclosure. It's funny because, you know, we're talking about like who still has the juice, Yeah Uh, and you look at David David Kepp's writing career, you know, he is tred a lot of One Steven Spielberg for Steven Soderberg. Like he's been working Steven Sootberg a lot. He wrote Black Bag, which is actually one of my favorite movies last year. It's the movie I picked on the big pick like best movies of the year so far. I picked Black Bag sexy little spy thriller. It is just like Yeah It's meanan and it's like it's lean, mean, and's perf And so I was like, how can David kept write that And then also I don't understand. I think the script of this is is White. Yeah flimsy and bad. And I think The visual storytelling, which is whatiberg is really good. Like the nimbeness of his camera, which we'll talk about like incredible. Donal Link score incredible. Some of the performances incredible. I love that it starts in Miaz. I love that we're like in this like moment with Josh like it's great. I mean like, what's going on? What's the thing? Who's Jane? likeike what's happening? I love the introduction Temily Blunt as well. L her whole like home you know like jabbing around like Kansas City loft that they've got there. Incredible. Wonderful. You know, there's there's things I like, but overall, I think the script is is biggest problem. Was there any character either in terms of the expositional load or just the actual like quality of the dialogue who you felt was maybe most poorly served by the script. It has to be Hugo Wakefield played by Colman Domingo who makes the best always I mean. He's always just I just finished season of Euphoria where I was like Coolman Domingo, no notes for you, sir. lotots of notes elsewhere, but no notes for you. Never any notes really for Colleman Dom But honestly. Running Man, which I thought was a big disaster. He was fantastic, you know, So like he's kind of unpetchable. Yeah. but like What he is asked to do as guy on the phone for this almost entirety of this movie is incredibly tough, incredibly tough. Yeah, kind of a very fine point to put on it when Emily Blond's character, Margaret We'll talk more about the forced diet and their respective kind of power set shortly. but Um When when she, when Margaret and Danielle arrive at Hugo's secret base. I got some questions about how it was secret was really weird because the diving and the using the sonic screwdriver magic wand to the device to dive was actually I thought cool and very neat. and I really, really likek the Jane. The Jane Scallin scenes in particular, they were like really creepy in a good way.. But like the Hugo knows that that's about to happen. so he tells everyone to leave, right? And then two of the disciples come in and so Scanlon pulls himself out and he's like, those guys and they all get to I'm like, but you knew the twelve people who didn't show up to work already. You weren't checking their actually just doesn't make sense. That's like bizarre as a bit of scripting. And it's not even like the most bizarre thing that happens in theay. When Emon when Margaret W to just upload the files to the internet. Well, that that obviously is just it's it doesn't it just is crazy It's crazy. We love news. We love local news. We are two journalists. We love is have this is a pro news film. Yeah. I was like wow Steven Spilberg iss out here fighting for journalism. I love that. That's definitely not how it happen in the tw. What what you would do? No Margaret won't make eye contact with Hugo right away and she says loud in the movie, you're the guy who knows them. You're the guy who knows everything.'s like, I said the thing U I actually think his Josh O'Connor is one of my favorite actors. I think he is just I agree. Since the crrown Yeah He's I fucking love him. Did you see the junket interview that he did with with Eve Hwston, who plays Jane where they were asked like sort of another one of my favorites this you know? Oh, I know. They were her eyes when the just dynamite. When they asked them like what conspiracy they would wantan to get to the bottom of, this? What did he say It's not what he said.'s she said. They were sitting side by side. and she goes Fr is Diiana, and he's like, What do you mean? And she looked him and she's like It started dying laughing. L it was it was really good. She is so, so good in the nick and I think like one of the best parts of Bad Sister, she's just you love her. I think she's kind of a comic genius actually. like especially in Bad Sisters, what they did with Becca. I really love her. Josh O'Conor is a wonderful performer. I think he's great. He's still really good in the movie, but he also has to carry some clunky lines and I think he's pretty wasteful. He and Jane have to interact in a way people who are in a relationship and care about each other enough. right go do this thing together. Nither of them bails on the other. He doesn't say, Oh, well, you have like Jane, that's not enough for me to basically show up with this backpack and try to hold on too the b know She's been taken over Right. It's like it wasn't you. He doesn't abandon he doesn't like part let you stay in the next bed. I'm gonna let you, I'm gonna to tie your hands up. Yes, but I will hold the paper in the hand with the hotel name on it and if you don't want to put everything else away. And I will not blindfold you. tied the hands we didn't. Close the eyes. Yeah. And she is just facing him. It's a good note. Also, like lean into the kink at that point, you know, Wh not? invite calling birth into your relationship. Oh my God, I mean, that would be great They end up kind of and you know they're learning things about each other. That's the coververs is they both have their secrets. She was gonna become a nun and didn't tell them. He is going to be the whistleblower for the biggest reveal in the history of humanity Not exactly one to one, but we all have our own versions of those things. Yeah. There's some charm in a sequence like that when he's like, you're gonna be a nun. And she's like, we've had sex. What do you think? Again, I think she's just wonderful But the way that you know When I got out of prison for my cyber crimes is just like kind of a tough. bit of exposition to have doesnt do it in a scene. I think relationship like, okay. so lookingooking at Last Crusade or like or Jassic Park if you prefer. likeike two of the best movies ever made Um, anchor this journey inside of relationship journeys, right? And so for like Sam Neil and the kids, it's like Do I hate kids, No actually, do I have a place in this world where I am interested. It is a father, child, thank for sure. Last Crusade a father you have this great story that is just hinged entire. Indies's on this mission to find his dad. He only goes through the trials because they shot Sean Connery and he's got to like pour some magical hydroen peroxide on the wood. Like all of that is so personal. Yes. Yeah which is just delicious. In this you know, situationally like, tell that he cared about Jane right away because the plot was like he's doing everything he can to like get her out of the situation despite the high stakes of this you know, McGuffin that he's carrying. Like that's that's all, that's all there. But like The movie then veers away from his relationship to her to like his connection to Emily Blood's character and not like you can't sort of move through things. But in like a road movie if for're thinking about like the born identity or something like that, like a road movie should be about like What are these two people and what are they learning about each other? Like I would really have liked maybe it's Emily Blt and Josh O'Connor from the beginning and they like don't understand why they have this connection and are figuring it out and why are we a diet in the forest and all the sort ofuff like that? O You know, it's about the relationship between Jane and and Kellner, but that's sort of just dropped in a way that is confusing to me. So ye, I don't know. Josh O'Connor, This is just not what I I get why you cast him because he has Oh for sure. he He's so talented in general but he also has that child like face, that sort of like to do that child likeke one and we'll talk about the Spielberg face a bit more later, but like I get why you ced him, but I just don't think they used him to the best of his abilities and he can do so much Emily Bl, however, just an unbelievable performance A sensation. Will she get nominated for an Oscar? She should, she should I hope she does love for sure Golden Glove for sure. It sort of depends on how I can see Disclosure Day being a big Golden Gloves movie. For sure.ollformed person is so excited about Disclosure Day. but you know, this is I would love for her to get Oscar. I think she should because like 's an emotional performance. It's a funny performance. and I think comedy should be more readily recognized the Oscars. I think she deserves it. In general, like I think that the humor of the movie was one of the really successful parts and she's the engine of so much of that. I thought that all of the Margaret Jackson,. Oh ye, why Emily Llunt Whyatt Rstsell scines were amazing. Just amazing hospital. like The hospital Derek Like is just her reaction to him revealing this trauma and the dreams and the singings. like you do, you do. Yes everyvery night. Yeah, they're both just so great in that scene that like when they cut through the bathroom into the other patient's room, because her She has at this point clicked, she's spok influent Russian, she's spoken Korean. She doesn't she's had the interaction with the cop who pulled her over with people on the local news set you know, got it out. So she has a different level of awareness of what is happening to her because like when she's speaking these other languages, she doesn't know. But when she tells the cop these innermost truths about how he feels about his wife his new baby, et ceter.'s like she doesn't show what the fuck just happened. So when she looks at Jackson and is like, She doesn't have to say out loud what's singing. The comedy is in not saying it and saying to him, how dare you think that? because it's like about their relationship. And then later there is a little bit more of an overt at the convenience store or gas station one showing up splitting. L, you wouldn't move, we wouldn't go with me if I moved.ike, you want me to go. You wantan to say you have your thing. We've grown apart. peoplee grow apart The I think in some ways, not only the single like funniest maybe moment, but the To me the encapsulation of why the humor was so important is like a pressure valve release in the film was actually In introduction the movie that I thought wasn't successful but toward the end when they get back to the station They' about to Via Broadcast News, as we have said many times, it will continue to say throughout the podcast because it is just so perplexing, reveal this instead of just putting it on the internet The fact that Daniel at the beginning of the movie, on the phone with Hugo was like, I'm going just put it on the internet right now and Hug' is like, don't dare And I felt it felt so keenly like they had that in there just to basically acknowledge that the internet existed is like pretty rough. anyway. is like Getting everybody ready, convincing the station had like, okay, where's the control room where's the this? And everything is so we know that Scanlin knows where she's going. They're going to be there soon. The generator. Okaykay, the tension is so keen and then it's like Do you want makeup? Yeah It's just gold. It's so gold. And like listen, I so appreciate the comedy that's here. Aain, almost entirely carried by Emily Blood inside of this movie because I feel like more movies used to have that just sort of like a sense of humor throughout. Again, rewatching Last Crusade or even Jurassic Park. L, you know not the only two great movies that exist, but like you can have action and intensity and emotionality and also just like keep things like funny and entertaining. And like Harrison Ford is like incredible at that inside of Last Cruseta The exchange when they're in the speedboat in Last Crusade, and he's like Are you crazy? don't go between them? And she's like, goo between them. Are you crazy? A like? It so funny. and I'm just like that's you know, and Projectell Mary had that in Spades. like it was just so emotional and so funny throughout. And I just think that like We often lose it. you know, like we're so excited for the Odyssey and we're so excited for for Doune part three. Those are not to be funny movies and that's okay. Things don't have to be. But I think the more we can have that sort of like, you know that You want to be entertained. You want to eat your popcorn hear your Joonn Williams score. Yes and laugh. You want to be entertained and laugh. and also it is a story especially that is in part oriented around assessing and interrogating what the human experience is supposed to be. you have to includip that. is part of why I just find I don't enjoy War of the world. It's not as a story, but that adaptation is so It's a fun action movie and maybe that can actually transition us into talking a little bit about the action and the filmmaking for another beat. but I'm like I just, I mean, This is like not to be I'm not hoping they all die, but like not really a family. I'm like room course I watch that movie. it's so I mean. greatreat Dakota Johnson pering performance, but like but like, I mean, she's she's so good happen but you know Yeah We talked a lot about the pace already and this is very much a chase movie. We talked about some of the camera work, but what else on that front in terms of just the actual craft of filmmaking and what Stberard can do That is just God tear. I mean, when we were standing in the lobby outside of our screening, I believe it was Sean who was like, I don't even understand how his camera did some of the things that it did in that like One of the most impressive things in camera like when Emily Bunt comes into the newsroom for the first time, that is like a really impressive camer nimbleness and that' camera on, you. When Kellerner, is played by Josha Connor, is trying to creep up on this farmhouse. Y And there's a million of one agents around and he's just sort of like creeping through the field and then into the car, and like that. againain What the camera does. Yeah is dazzling we can't wait to see the behind the scenes of like how they actually like physically accomplish that. And at the same time, we're like, literally every single agent would have heurard him and turned like it's It's an open fence and like some branches hiding him. Bizarre. Like absolutely genently bizarre. Yeah So this is a so the camera stuff I think is always impressive with Spelberg. Visually There's this I was trying to get to the bottom of this. I'm like, what is it about earlier Spielberg that I feel so lush and then later Spielberg all has this same sort of like Flat aesthetic to me So Janis Kaminsky, who's longtime collaborator since Schindler's list and, you know incredible talent. has this process that he likes to do called bleach bleach bypass, which sort of washes out The it's an intentional stylistic washing out of the color They use it in Sving Private Ryant to sort of give you that like gritty war war torn feeling. there's constant dust in the air sort of thing. work so well in minority report to like give you this sort of dystopian surveillance state. Everything is kind of chilly and blue and sort of faded in that movie. I love it. I think it looks amazing. He also did Catch Mvie Can, which is like, quite colorful and poppy. But like that sort of washed out look becomes this kind of go to palette going forward, it's the hallmark of their collab and especially with Spielberg's increasing reliance or sort of like RobertZemeckis, one of our great innovative filmmakers who became enchanted by the idea of CGI, but unlike You know your Villenevves or your Nols, like doesn't use CGI in a way that like can match the kind of storytelling that he told before. So like why do the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, Not all of them, those brronosaurus, I have subnotes, but like why do the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park look better than the animals in this movie and and yeah, you know Perhaps that's intentional I think the most charitable possible explanation is that The CGI, Fx, the Cardinals, the deer Shout out that raccoon. P like alien hallucinations. Right. The aliens choose to present as aliens as as animals in order to like to the children they' abducting. Yeah, slash choosing. Is that is that Is that an alien then is the bird that comes into her beautiful loft in Kansas City on a weather girls salary.. Is that an alien or is that just a bird that reminds her of her alien experience? No, think I think that an alien that's because that's when her activates happens. So for Daniel, because they have this shared forced dad moment when they're ten, right when they're children. And then he unlocks early as we learn in a super smo smoothly delivered bit of exposition about like well, in college you were flunkking and doing a lot of ketamine and couldn't make he's like, I couldn't form connections with any other people because of the math in my mind. His activation happens earlier and that's what facilitates his ability to why we learn he's like recruited at Wordx and all that. But her activation is inside of the movie via the kitchenbird. So the kitchenbird is an alien, it's not a bird. fine. And can I can buy into that. I just don't. againg, when we are to consider this in the larger scope of Spielberg's philmography. and we think of like of red of Elliot's hoodie for sure. or like the sunburst colors of close encounters. you knowing the door orange. Exactly. You know, And so that J just visceral vibrant wonder that is that is inside of those experiences. And then more of the world again is like washed out intentionally so because this is just like that's a different though there are there's like the red lights inside of that landscape that sort of have impact, but here like You know, you've got You know, a lot of like bright white lens flare washed outness that just doesn't make me feel like I am stepping into a wider world of wonder and exploration and disiscovery. I think that the effect of so the because we have three of these Sonic screwdriver e devices in the primary story, right? Yeah. there's the one that Daniel has absconded with There's the Hugo one. and then there's the sccanly one that he is using to dive Yeah when we get to see and when Crucially Margaret and Daniel get to see they're watching a movie of their own life, right? And the role of like storytelling and film and filmmaking is very present there and just in general in that kind of fairy tale esque presentation of and rendering of that sequence S Rings that are made of those devices that go down over each of them to kind of imbue them with these abilities, right? They' respective d add and the force abilities. He will be able to speak the language of the universe mathematics, Mathematics. I love that. It's very contact. Its Yeah, for sure. There's contact was on my mind actually with the religion stuff as well in terms of like how would A like wear itic hing you go cl surves than you matt. The effect on the eyeball The er who then morphs into the alien over the face. The moment in the hospital where Emily Blunt's face is like visible against the bald head of the guy who pretending to be an FBI exactly. Incredible pretending to be an the FBI agent. Some of those visuals, I thought were like It really gripping. They were all in the trailers. And so actually, I was like, I think more excited for what the visual palette of the film would be based on the teases and glimpses we got. That was the extent of it, right? You don't see that like really cool eye effect of that ring of devices in their pupils outside of the moments that we have basically already seen and seen in the posters, et ccetera. On the like CGI animal front You know, I wantan to talk just for another minute here about like the role that movies and stories play in the film and especially like thinking about that through the lens of where Spielberg is in his career and thinking about the role of the stories He has told and wanted to tell and what that unlocks for us, right? So I think the most generous like read on the CGI that I can attempt to provide is like that the animals are supposed to look And it's range and uncanny because they're trying to say like this is a child's experience of basically their version of a fairy tale. So it would look like an animal pulled out of a storybook pull out of the Hansel and Gretel The gingerbread Gingerbread house that you are walking through the curtain of warm water and the snow that isn't cold on your bare feet into that experience. mind that. I think it's like slightly distracting actually how they look in the movie The Fox in particular. But I think that that logic kind of holds for me, whether it works for everyone is like The idea that the u you hit this early and we've come on come at it a few times. like I I wrote every time I wrote in our doc like slash chosen, you know because it is, I think given that so much of the film hinges around The people are the bad ones, the aliens are misunderstood and let's give them a chance and oh my God, look at what we're doing to them, But could we do it a different way? They are at the end of the day leading these two children out of their homes into their ship and altering their minds and their very beings in a way that they will not understand for decades. We calluse them trauma. deep trauma. Yeah. I thought that one of the most like harrowing moments in the movie was like because you have the brain scan after the clicking on the broadcast and then the collapse. It's like most people will be relieved if there's not to here, there was no stroke, there's no mass. But then the Parkinson's thing comes up, right? When the doctor asking like, when did your father's what was the time for the onset of your father's Parkins'? And she's like, that's not what this is it? And then when when Daniele and Margaret are on the train And she's having a pan attack, and he's caling her my hands Like this is this is my father. That was so intense and That was great and like connecting to your childhood trauma, not only this moment that she's like, I don't want to think about that. I don't want to look at that until I have to. And then Daniel is in a different place where he's like these missing aspects of my life, you can look at somebody and understand everything that's ever happened to them. Can you tell me about when I was a kid? That's like really interesting. I thought that was all really good and cool I think the fact that like we go to at the end of the day, Margaret's childildhood home, which Hugo and his team have built inside of a sound stage. They're making a movie, right? They're making a movie.'re winning production design. Where did they get all of like, I know? Where' they get all of those pre like Instagram era they know every recreate every detail of her That's fine. That's fine.'s very shy, shadowy controversy organization They've been inside all of our homes's fine U That's like just a movie. They're making a movie to help them understand what has happened to them. My favorite interpretation. This is me, yes, anding your point close encounters. Yes. H is that Richard Dffes' character you know, and then we've been talkking about this a lot with the with the Nolan films, like What story Christopher Nolan is telling about being a creator that takes you away from your family and the pain of that or the defense of that, you know, And so for Richard Dreyfus who is the creator inside, you know, the the artist who makes the mash potato, you know, like all of all of that. He's he's the artist. He's the creator, he's the storyteller. he's the director And what he has to do is more important than being with his family that's the story of that. you know, And like I don't agree with that, but I think it's a compelling story to tell U it really unlocks something for me inside of that. And I love when I think it's interesting when directors do that because like, It's incred it can be incredibly flawed, but they're like defense of their own lifestyle choices of like this is the decision that I've made is that like my art and the role it will play in the world. Dve you know, Drive's character is like making a connection with alien Eth, alien life. and Spieeler just like, yeep, that's same as me making movies. That's the same same. And so yeah, the Coleman Domingo as Suel burgens, I mean if I'm putting an author in certain to movie. I'd love for Coman Domingo to play me. That sounds an excellent honor. Sounds great. honor. Yeah, he's kind of in like Spielberg drag. The whole movie is kind of amazing. He's just so good. But yeah, I do think that idea of like, let's set the scene and take you back into this. And you know they're the audience in this movie. and. Spielberg face, which is something I always love to talk about inside of this movie when the two of them are sitting there and their faces are like tilted up and the light is on them, like that's that's the most I feel perfects. I will say this. hesitate say it but I'm going say. I my b is so good in this movie She's an incredible person. and incredible talented person She has also put a lot of like Botoxin filler in her face. And the face is moving more in this movie than certainly did Devil Warars prodroued two and certainly then it has like, I think an Oppenheimer and like in a while. Yeah. It's moving a bit more, but like When like Spielberg face is your signature move and one of those faces, the most talented performer in your movie has years I' say I've been in LA two months. I've had five different people recommend their Botox person to me. Like this is just a reality It' a reality of living in Los Angeles. We're on camera, We're doing a fucking photo shoot next week. L you know what I mean?? Asolutely horrible. no one ased for this. But yeah like I've had and by the way, like people I like can admire who and whose faces actually look quite normal. But like you, you get this sort of like dysmorphic thing with your face when you're inside of this industry. And I'm not judging her. But it has impacted her instrument. And, um you know, Spielberg face, which is like one of, you know, like Elliot Nee is like a huge example of that. But like Sam Neel and Laura Durn, when they're like looking at the Bronosaurus for the first time, Roy Schidder, when he's looking at the shark in the water, like my pal, Matt Patches like coin dis phrase in twenty eleven. There's this great video essay about it by Kevin Lee that he made in twenty eleven off of Matt's essay. but like It's one of his greatest instruments. It's this look of wonder and a dolly in and it's just like And the way he use when he uses it Harrison Ford so good at it in Indiana Jones, when he uses it where he shows you the face before he shows you what they're looking at. Yes. And so that we get to like wonder along with this person, like what is there on astonishment? It's so powerful. I love that. So anyway, it like and it's always like This is what it's like to go to the movies. This is how I always think about it. You know what I mean? And so like for Emily Blunt and Josh O' Connor in that scene They're going to the movies. movies about their life, you know, it's the fablemens of their life or whatever, you know, but like what are they going to live in childhood bedroom and watch Yeah, a movie about their own life. I really love what you said about the Richard Dreyiffist character and close encounters the stand in for this important thing that you have to do. It made me think that like it's a little bit of a Kat Stehvens father and son esque Cat Cradle sort of thing. Like the idea that you have different perspectives depending on where you are in your life because he's also undeniably the son trying to say like my father had a more important Oh, absolutely. He is justify the son. Yeah and justify that, which is just so interesting. Even just the movie opening with the wrestling Match is like wrestling is Theater, But it's theater and it is about Lying in even though you know you're being lied to, and obviously that is of like inspired place to start. I love that Diad and the Force. What haven't we hit here, if anything? Act did that you would like to talk about? Yeah, I guess there's the like passenger thing. You know, that they're kind of like passg trying to understand Are we deep divers Mellers? sureure. Dep divers I like when you're using the thing you're a diver and then she says because she's not before she holds the device, she dropped in. I like the terminology that is fun and interesting. I do have a note for the aliens here. Okay, I get that we, in addition to abducting the children are choosing them. So there's this chosen one aspect two chosen on' greatpe Um, Why? Now Hugo is our source for this, so maybe he's wrong, but like there are always two of you On two of you. You must be two. They must be beautiful and one boy, one girl. They must be two brits pretending to be Americans and Mexicans. absolly Cingency plans and redundancy. What if Josh O'Cnor like Oded in college or whatever? Wh would be their math guy then? Do they have to start over? Have they done this many cycles. this is the first time their chosen ones made it to for. I know. mean But they had to wait decades to find out if they were gonna All this has happened before and it will happen again. There we go. Al are Josh O'Connor Norm on supposed to be the same age in this movie? I think so which Which power set would you prefer to have? Would you prefer to be peaking the language the universe, mathematics, or would you prefer to be able to look into somebody's eyes or talk to me on the phone or engage with them in any way and understand everything that has ever happened to them, everything about them. And I can appear as the personear as theirre like dead wife, if you need to just get through to the parking lot to your car. You need to escape with a quickness and you're like,' your dad and I never told youoy I love. math. It's obviously Emily Blood's talent so'es The math talent Unbelievable. Yeah. And the idea that the person, you know, the alien will whisper to him at the end and then he will whisper to her and then she ends on that kind of chilling said I mean, I guess, but like if she speaks click, can she not? urseself What an interesting question Andid she not click herself? inccredible. Yeah, it's I also think it seems overwhelming. Obviously that's part of the comedy in fun of the movie is that she's very frazzled by like, oh yeah, I's unfolding in real time, but it would be kind of intense to like, I don't actually wantan to know. Reading Minds would be powerful, but I don't really actually wantan to know what's going on in E classic in, you know, it happens in an episode of Buffy Earshot. Like when you get this power, it is so overwhelming you cannot fun You learn that your mom fuck Giles L twice. What's a Steidor seventy nine years of cover upps, this question of who owns the truth? Who deserves to know the truth? Whse decision is that, right? What do people do with the truth once they receive it or confront it who controls and who disseminates it all of. So there's this whistleblower aspect with Daniel with Hugo with his team. This is like Plenty of whistleblowing in the world, right? The idea that somebody would come across information and then decide they had to act upon it, belieelievable An interesting like core building block and what can the movie do based on those building blocks aspect of this is that Daniel has done this thing. When he shows Jane the footage, she's escaped with all of the flashves, fun productions out of the flash. I did like those. and on the clicking front, satisfying like in and out of the thing that he plugs them in do. I don't know what thats that's called Flash drive. Flash drive. Sure. No, that's the drive. That's the drive, flash port. A dononggo. I don't know. Dont Mell us, I don't care know. So Hugo I would say has the more in terms of what is important for us to understand about a person's potential response to this. Hugo deciding to do this is more important than Daniel becausecause Daniel has been coded since he was an abducted child. making this decision? It's also like Hugo's movement that Daniel is sort of like swept up in. Yeah. Wouldn't it be nice to know a bit more about Hugo? Yeah, it would And the other people He' the person who sort of like started this revolution in his relationship. And by this an angel way, f an alien that freed him and then felt this was wrong, what they were doing Hints of his relationship with Scanlon, you know, but I just I would like to know more of that. And in order to do so religion subplot. tellell me fite finding it Interesting. Yeah Tell me why. And like I thought Elizabh Marvel, who plays the nun Fantastic. I love that actress. likeike I love her. So as a As a hand in hand question, Yes, and something that is here in all of Bielberg's stories, not just like, you know, his exploration of like you know, the very traumatic experience of Jewish people in the world, but also just like you know, ET is a sort of like Christ like can heal people sort of figure or like Moses come down to the mountain in close encounters or like, you know, a fucking holy grail, you know, like like Watching L last Crusade it reminds me to tell you, I'm finally reading Everlasting. in my life so it's wnder. Oh my God, that's so exciting. T'xt you updates. The search for the Cup of Chris, the search for the divine in all of us is a line from L Crusade. Markcus Brody who got lost in hisZ own Museum sometimes has very interesting things to say. but like you know, or what Henry says when they're on the crossros, which is just sort of like the search for the grail is not search for glory. fight against evil. likeike these big questions of religiosity and faith and a bigger something is bigger than we are hand in hand with this idea of UFOs and extraterrestrials and how is there A larger force in the galaxy is there, how small are we compared to what's going on the cosmos is, you know, and Spoberk has talked about this, is there Um you know Do all of us across the galaxy and all our different, you know alien forms, you have an idea of a god? you know or are the aliens a go? C faith coexist with the concept with the proof, the evidence of aliens? And that's the thing in Indiana Jones, these sort of like relics that are sprinkled throughout this adventure and ultimately in Crystal Skull of aliens These relics that prove Yes You know, Yes. there are Old Testament, you know Ghost spirit things in raaiders. There is, you know, a Grail Kight and Christ's Cup in Last Crusade. There is proof of God So there is proof of aliens in this movie and I undernderstand the impulse to connect those two themes. And I do think the line sure haven't lost haven't l faith in God. You'veost faith in people That was a banger on line. I'm really compelling But I think they really failed And just the way they disseminated this across the characters, like I think it would have been And again, I thought Eve Hon was really good in this movie, but like I think it would have been for economy or story or whatever to make Either Josha' Connor's character or Emily Blu's character, like the religious person who's grappling with like this thing, you know to make it sort of the thing other person and then couldn't do it because the knives out So good in so good You're such you're so right to call that That such a better execution of this. L Yeah, I just It's so funny. She's very little one. You know, like I like the idea of it and I think the execution of it is really shoddy and I think you could just so easily slice it out of the movie. Yes and not really miss it. H her Emily Blunt saying I don't want to be a Messiah. like don't kneel to me. and this like unwilling you know, speaking in tongues, this like, and I was thinking a lot about Samantha Morton in Minority repeport, this prophet who is traumatized by her, you know, power and her connection, her ability to see the future. So like this is obviously an archetype that's interesting to sppielberg, but like and so that's an interesting journey for want's character, but But I think Jane has just so become so ancillary to the plot that, you know, it' just It becomes a side quest that bogs down the last part of the movie. I agree. I think it's like makes sense both in terms of that connection to the larger filmography and just in the sense that this is very much at its core, a movie about belief and our capacity for belief in and I love what you're saying about those moments of proof of like a definitive confirmation of something inside of thinking about faith because faith and I am not a religious person, as I've said many times on many pods iniew Faith is like believing in what you can't see, right and what you can't prove. So like Asessing all of that together is fascinating. I think that the impulse to say For Jeane to have a journey of evolution where her doubt when she receives that she's horrified, just as we understand Hugo was, as we know Daniel was, very upset to see the footage that she sees of the interrogations and the torment But she worries, worries about how the masses would receive this information, what it would do to them, what it would do to their faith And I like that phone call to Sister Mara and as you noted, like what she says in response about Jean's personal experience with faith and belief, but also more broadly what we should credit we should give people for being able to hold many different truths in their mind at once. I thought was really interesting.'s it's just very, I think There could be l of it in a movie or there could be more of it Yeah. And I think either of those would work. It's an interesting area of examination that is just simply like not fully teased out. You mentioned that, I don't want to be a Messiah moment, and I thought that was really emblematic of how this wasn't fully baked because Terri, I think her name is Terri one if you goes team members who left seeing Margaret who goes around and says all of their names, not that they needed more proof at that point, but proving her power to them, right kneels down and grasps her hand and We have had these conversations between Jane and Daniel. we have the Jane Sister Mara conversation None of it aligns with the end of the movie. I think the questions that the movie is asking about Doubt and varying responses are appropriate tasks The movie ends in a place of uniformity and consensus. like widespread credulility. Exactly. So it doesn't it doesn't just coalesce. Yeah in that respect. I read this, I read this there's a really good box piece from Dylan Scott that basically just outlines and like we should say, haven't said a couple things here. Part of the backdrop of this movie is like World War three is about to breakout. R. So there's that too It has taken us nearly two hours to mention World War three is about The premise of this movie is that the world is poison on the verge of World War three. is so Stupidly executed because it just like is so inconsequential, but consequential at the same. And it's supposed to a lot of the final act hinges on like, this would be the thing that pulled everybody away. Lay down your arm brank Yeah Yeah What it No. We also haven't mentioned just some of the real world recent like current events, you know, the Obama comments, which was amazing and then of course the just inanity of Trump and his administration. Oh, we've got these Oh, we've got files. And everyone was like, huh, stop scrolling. Exactly. So that is important to mention. A God will not be scrolls. You know what I mean that with us. this this Dylan Scott Vox piece about Disclosure Day and its assessment of Uh, what religious people and people of faith would do in the wake of a revelation of this nature, that we are not alone in the universe and it This piece just outlin I don't I did not know a lot about this. You know who would be really cool about it Exactly. I dub hope who will be amazing about it, The Pope who rules. Pope will be great about it. Really fascinating, you know, not obviously a complete accounting of every single religious person's standing on this matter, but the idea that actually a lot of people of the faith, a lot of religious scholars in particular, Eologians have said not only I think there's probably life out there. right. But That can that fits with my view of God. So I think there's like an entire movie that could be centered around this that would be riveted. You know, I was scrolling around trying to see like what people thought of this movie and again, like plenty of people liked it, but but the disappointment that some people had Beuse it's in the trailer is that they were like, they thought disclosure day would be like the beginning or the first act of this movie, that the aftermath would be what the substance of the movie was. That is not the case. It ends with, listen, and that's where we leave it. Yeah, I mean, disisclosure dayay too U ye, moreore disclosure the fall. still disclosing. Disclosure discosure night. Disclosed. Disclosure night How. Oh my God. That's kind of, you know,'s kind of interesting. What what about empathy as a superpower? Becauseuse in addition to religion, like that's another kind of core theme and big idea. That is certainly one of the areas where the idea of World War three the poise to erupt. these are connected. Also obviously the filmmaker trying to reach you through the power of story to say. No, except not only your fellow man, but your fellow being, wherever they might come from The aliens have that interest, as you noted, about like Rocky and Grace. The aliens have the interest in certain stories and getting to know us and understand and speak to us and through us. What if we showed the same openness? Um Hugo says that empathy is an evolutionary advantage. That is one of the things that he says in the movie. Now, we love to talk about empathy in the stories that we cover I think we believe that empathy can actually be a superpower. and this is certainly something in many different stories, not just space movies, not just alien movies. Look when we potted about Andor, we talked about this. we heard from people a lot that part of what part of what genre stories can do is that they get you to think about how you receive the news around you. I think we'll talk about this maybe more in a minute when we get to the ending totally work about it But at its core, the idea that Oping your heart and mind to another person or being's experience is a Bet and more worthwhile and more holy, perhaps way to live V veryy interesting. I don't know that it feltally new But it was Iree I agree Epathy, Empathy rocks This movie This movie Jersey. Dery today. Empathy. Pretty good. E G sign. Math bad. Empathy great. That's how I feel. We We just didn't always have a no math policy We always have a no mass my flaw. It's myailing. mathaticians in the world, I support you. is not math is not well for me here at House of Mar. Anything else on the Word accent, like the bad guys on the cover upp Yeah front that we haven't hit that you want to talk about? I did like watching Colinfth bite down on that mouth guard. I just find him always a do you want to say what's what you were in the notes I wrote bite me like that mouthguard daddy parentheses. Is this still a meme? I don't know. Do the kids still do that? or they still? A you sitt? Are you sing? Are you s? Are you sitting? I'm sad I'm set. You know, Colin Fth, one of the most important people in my life for decades on end at this point. Just a delight to see him. What'd you make of the accent I mean, I was I actually thought it was fine. It was great. Yeah was it was a deliberate choice but very like u u Hush military industrial. complex controlling asshole which is what it needs to be. I kind of really think it's that he just sat down, but I don't understand But I kind I kind of liked callin Berth in this. It was a lot of fun. I thought it was a lot of fun. The diving was super, super cool. I mean, we mentioned that. I did think that Jane stuff was really cool. I think I think employing this actress who has these incredible eyes and giving us the like change of eye color is the signal and her attempt slightly heavy handed but like using the crucifix to sort of like, you know, be in her own body and stay there and stay alert. I thought all of that was like, you know, pretty cool I lik that as well. I on the whistleblower front, I did think, you know, again, not every Daniel Line was the most memorable in the movie, but I did I liked and Josh O'Cnor, you know, he's so When he is like really imploring he was like, we gotta disclose this today Well, he didn't? wasn't Hugo the one was like, This will be the day remember. I did really like because Daniel and Jane have a kind of fascinating philosophical debate about this. Is it up to him? Should it be up to him, right? And she has her reason to fear and her own journey there. But just when he says It's not theirs, right? Like there's the proprietary aspect of Wordex and what data they have and right what they what they do, wave reporting development and extraction real real ominous name for your company right there When he's like, they don't What did the aliens do if not extract those children from their bedrooms? No God. Aliens, we have some notes. we do. Consent is king, aliens. and you did not give any to those children. The aliens are better than the people, but they still they're making some mistakes. They're making some mistakes. They are. Sorry. They're wearing some interesting athleisure though The aliens were wearing ss. It feel on the, the creature design, but I did. I liked the kind of like jumpsuit athleisure wearing. Have you seen the movies where people are saying he looks like Weemby I mean, absolutely. Yes. And you know, the I know who that is. I get that reference. You're all in on the NBA finals, which which I love. It's a thrill. Sports Joe is really just thriving. I would say medium in. For you, that's all in. Yeah The most ant I've ever been in basketball. Yeah. The idea, they don't know the truth, It doesn't belong to them anymore than like the air or the light. I liked that. That was a good moment the device does too much pllain and simple does too much They can use it for anything they want. Yeah. I love that you I love that you called it a sonic screwdriver. Yeah. It made me feel like our entire wash throughrough of Doctor Who despite not covering the new series and it being now canceled and buried is you know Sheh, worth it. But it's foundational sci fi text and you get it now and you can get it when Adie we is like Rocky and the Turtois and you're like I get that reference. I know. I felt really at home in that moment And then he turned to you and he was like, did she actually watch all of it? And you were like, No, Well, I haven't seen all of it, anyywirere. C down. Okay. Let's talk about the ending. The ending Boy Okay, listen. so here's another thing I want to admire about this movie. Tell me Courney Grace, who plays the reporter, the New York based reporter. Um Wh is responsible for like narrating the footage I think this whole sequence is baffling, Do doesn't make sense. wouldould never work on people this way. The way that everyone immediately starts streaming this footage is it like And the way that they have like secret magic AI detectors in ground truth pictures. Is that thing? sorry, if it's a real thing. think you don't think that first of all, ninety percent of the world would be like this is AI or this is fake news or whatever. And then also like the other news organizations that you know it's like picked up by the BBC and ever, you know, like all around the world Al Jaera,et cetera, cet They wouldn't be like, let's pause and authenticate this before we start also live streaming this footage. L it's so pro journalism, but antithetical to what journalism actually is, that I can't even stand it. Courtney Grace's performance, I thought was extraordinarily good. And if I were casting director out there I'd be like I want't hurt Like that's such a good like intro she's been in a bunch of stuff, but like as news reporter number five or like this that or the other thing. And so like this is just like a really cool showcase for an actress that I thought did A phenomenal job with all this. but let's go back to Spielberg face for a second, So she's like barrel down the camera. She's emotional. She's doing all this stuff. She's fantastic Everyone else? This true the world Head down your phone. Screenssz obbies. Yeah. sccreenssz obbies Yeah. slack Is that giving look up and wonder at this thing that has come to our planet? No, we're all like this and we're all agreeing that this is real and it's going to stop World War I and change us fundamentally as people and we're all going to listen to this U you know, weathergirl, tell us what the aliens in their athleesure are saying I'm like, I'm sorry, M maybe I am just like the same response. Maybe this is I I think it's Pattnsle. I think about this all the time I think his Patan Osmold had a stand up where he it was some live show I went to where he was talking about seeing Jerry Mcuire And said Jer Mguire I think was like aew Years something like that. And there's this line Jer Mcguire says where goes We live in a cynical world. and whoever he was watching with was like, fuck you like loud at the screen because you just thought it was like such a dumb line. but I think about that the time Oh my. We live in a cynical. We did mayaybe I'm just like to Jerry McGuire for my own good, but I just could not buy into this and I was like, what if this had been period piece set in the nineteen fifties or something like this and everyone's just sort of like, you know, the flash dries wouldn't have been a thing, but like, you know, if like, different world where we can all watch on landing and most of us believe it's real or like, you know, whatever the case may be. and like that's such a good cuse like there's just simply no way that everybody has the same response to this and says like, yeah, not only do I believe this and I have no follow up questions, but it's the most important thing in my life right away. And I have the movie is communicating to us intention of that ending is And we will now align. at least listen. And at least what this Lady has to say? It's just simply not what would happen. There's no way. I So the period piecing is interesting becausecause on the one hand As I've said many times since we both have like, I think we are just in complete alignment, The movie doesn't really totally track in twenty twenty six. I think that's just true. However, the engine of the film is the idea of like the seventy nine year cover up and it' dating back to Roswell and this like the fact that our institutions of fashure. Yeah, But then we're just like, that's where close encounters in ET are. seventy seven and eighty two and like those movies just down the roads, You know what So maybe we should just do that again, but like yeah, I think the this movie, the idea of disclosure day, the whistleblowing, the not just accepting that there's life elsewhere, that we're not alone and that we should be open to that and embrace it, but that we have to challenge the figures in our countries and our lives, whether they are government officials, though, of course, the one of the things in the movie is like Nixon fucked up. Now the presidents aren't even read in because they become civilians after years. example, actually like an interesting idea that's like almost like tossed away. It trying to like impress like Ed Sullivan, essentially, I don't know. Like really fun. And so now this is like you know, the, yes, the Department of Defense is a part of this, but this is like WordX is like a private company, right? And like that all makes sense. you know, they they'd be profing. They're just they're finding at these crash sites alien tech. This is not a new thing, it's something we're certainly very open to. There's no trouble believing this part of the movie. This is like in Spiderm Man H homecoming, right? You find the alien tech and you use it for your s Of course that would happen. No question that would happen. They're retrofitting in reverse engineering to try to make new tech and they're using what they've discovered. They're taking the aliens and they're holding them and they're torturing them and they're tormenting them and they're trying to learn and they're not actually learning anything of consequence. That allll make sense. I don't know if What Spielberg is interested in doing in this movie is possible if it's a period in piece because it feels like the foundation is the undeniable aspect of a period of time of withholding and obuscating and denying the public the truth that they deserve to know But then it's like the response that people have usings broadcast news instead of the internet, aspects like that have to be different because they have to feel more of the moment. It's a difficult melding attempt, I think, to say the story requires eighty years of deception The response does not feel like it exists in a period of time. It's not years after Ros. That's not who we are. Yeah. you know, And unfortunately Um, yeah, so yeah, that's the ending of this fory It's very very, very, very, very, very strange at the end. Yeah, I don't know. E just the way that people in the various newsrooms are responding and like yeah, none of that made any sense. It's funny because when everybody boots up the first the shot in particular on the airplane, I'm just like literally like not everyone has like wiifi up like stuff like that, whatever It is fun though we do have real life examples of like, you know, the great meme like everybody's watching the World Cup and the one dude is watching four Oude came out this Yeah Avatar. incredible You know, I'm they' on the NBA. are. you are just here. There are certainly moments where everyone' like I got to watch Every single person in the world doing this, no, but was every like American sports fan like I'm watching the end of game four and this is the most insane thing that's ever happened in the NBA finals. Like actually. Yes. you know, the World Cup is about to happen. like I like that you called out the Martian conversation we had about what other and that was one of the questions you asked on the pop was like what other moments could make us behave and respondse this way I think everybody want person attention. Should one person have been watching Lord of the Rings That would have been amazing. Let's just like get in the director's cut. Yeah. Let's just like get one shot off that get off shot from that. It know. it's on a track onordqu Yeah I think it's hard enough to kind of believe that everybody would pay attention right away because it's just like You have your screen zombies and your people who are on their phones all the time and they would see it sure, but they'd move on. They're like looking at like, and so am I like they're scing cat reels and stuff like that. They're scrolling. That's what we do. Like our brains are rotting and melting because we can't stop just like falling deeper into the abyss. I'm sorry In nonsense. like brain soup messes that Steven Spielberg's beautiful message of empathy and connection feels not last I I'm sorry. So it's like would people even all watch in the first place but though when they all respond that way? I would like to believe that everybody, this is about to I'm going to say something dark here. I would really like to believe that everybody would see the footage of the aliens like cut in half and their' entrails out and crusty and being tormented and say We can't accept it, We can't allow it Unfortunately, we live in a world where that happens to people all the time. and people are justriant all over the world and they're like, someome people are like, this is not acceptable. I can't allow it I have to do something. Some people are like, I feel very disturbed and I don't know how to navigate that. That's like an example of something we heard from a lot of people during Andor that was really powerful to talk about. And some people are like, I'm moving on to the next meme or I'm not ay attention I don't even know what's going on in. It's so confusing. I mean, like it is why I do think this idea of Stelberg wanting to send out this message into the world of like empathy being so important Yes. is interesting and timely because yeah, like when you're on the scroll and you're just sort of like immages of like Palestine or whatever are just sort of like coming up in your feed. and like I never scroll past that because like I would feel like the most garbage person on the planet and if I ever did. But also like, what am I helping anything by just like watching this video That's not like helping. I'm just telling myself, I'm not the worst person in the world because I like didn't ignore it that way. but like You know, when that happens and you're like, I just came here to escape and turn my brain off and now you're asking me to engage this thing, it just blunts you. We talked about this Yeah, we talked about this Andor. Just blunts you because then the next thing you see is like a fucking cat video. And so then it all becomes a soup of nothing, you know? And I think it's a devastating thing that's happening to us, but it's deeply lamentable We we magic to confront. We've never been more connected and we've never been more callous, I think. And you know, it's just ye Yeah I don't I'm not I don't want to like advocate for like a preacher ending or anything. I don't think that would be appropriate. and I don't think that's what the movie' is trying to do. but it does feel like there's a distinction between The movie encouraging us to believe that an outcome like that is possible, which I think is powerful. And maybe the movie saying This is what we think would And I just it's harder, I think, to just like, I'm trying to fix it and I can't fix it because if it had been like, what if it were coordinated, we're going to show ourselves. to the world You know, like, you know, UFOs crafts will appear in the sky or whatever the case may be at a coordinated time and this is disclosure day. and here we are R We've seen those movies a lot in the nineties, mass hysteria peoplee screaming and running and crying and crashing their cars and fire hydrants exploding., you know, So I don't know. I wish we lived in a world where I could buy into the ending of this movie, but we don't. I know. But Emily Blnt She was I uh An like I don't know that anybody but me cares about this, but another thing in the end, the final act that kind of takes me out a little bit, not at the level of how are the people of the world responding to what has been disclosed or Yeah is local news and then broadcast news the way that this would instantly reach everybody in twenty twenty six. But We get these interesting glimpses of all the footage. Some of it is like you've got some fun like kind of Eter egg connect. You It just I find it really perplexing whyy we have like basically one one and a half ish alien designs. There are a lot of different loves the grays. He loves he love they're different sizes, but it's like is it because they're kids and adults or are they actually different? Like did they just get taller orr be horrible because the little ones are getting anyway. But like, you know, they've got they've all got They're big heads and their' big eyes and their're grreay skin and their're long fingers, theirre spindly fingers. And you know, ET looks different, but like I would say general shape. u a Jase Close Ecounters aliens are incredibly similar to how the aliens in here look. and shart. Yeah, exactly. And W of the worldlds is the tripod design, obviously very different, but the craftsmen inside, you know, they have the very different like head plumes, but I'd say the design outside of that is not like so radically different. I'm kind of like, where's the equivalent of Rocky, know If the idea is like the doctor universe, like, you know, likeens. Yeah. There's life everywhere. One of them iss a gelatinous blob. Exactly. Like give us the kind of like everything everywhere all at once, like hot dog finger equivalent here of just like something I mean, they would of did have hot dog fingers, but I take your. Yes, you're right. That's actually all we have here the hot dog fingers of the you the rocks. You want the sentient rocks. It feels like a way to reinforce visually in a movie where movie making and what we can do through story and visual language can remind us of our place in the world. show us how big the world is. It's funny that we got this far.' this story about aliens and religious belief and all of this and I didn't mention in crop circles. And I didn't mention one of my favorite movies actually, which is S. I love sence Science is about You know It' a smaller scale story about a family and a community and the belief and a more violent incursion, obviously, but like It's such a dumb movie I really love it. and how it handles this sort of like slack jawed It's real kind of moment makes so much more sense to me I don't know. I think of I love the moment and some of it is it doesn't like he's like there's an advaning of the thesis. which is which is where we started where you were just sort of like I love ET, I love close encounters, where the world's happen. But we've done it and we've done it more successfully. L the aliens are here that came to Earth, they're actually not the bad guys and let's embrace them and show at the end that actually we can. We've just done that before. So you're just ready for disisclosure night and what comes next? What does the pope have to say about all this? Tune in Number one, my hype draft, twenty twenty eight. This goes your night I texted you Seaan and Rob last night that I would be taking Gato in the first round of the twenty twenty seven hydraft. no one replied I was thinking about flow and I was like, is Flow going to be like displaced by Gota for you? Nothing can ever displace flow. . Do we want to disclose the fact that on this disclosure day that Dannyyifz has been texting us cat photos from his honeymon? On honeymon. Yeah. On this honeymoon is a special person. He's great. Some of those pictures are amazing like portrait.. Portr but he' using live photo. Yeah. you know, so you could really see his process of how he's zooming in before you be really careful if you send a live photo to Malory because she will always don't do it. always w and click it. Don't know Every time. Dan Evt. Dan Evt. Did we do it? Did we hit anything else you want to hit? I think we did it. Great. We'll see Everybody on Monday for our special announcement, Our disclosure Day. O disisclosure D. It's you know what It's better than the end of this movie Aay, a movie that I had fun watching, I have a lot of notes on Once again, I'm sorry I ableled you so forcefull I I'm glad you did. because I'm not apologizing for clicking in your ear. Damn, so it's not me you You haveor click, you haveora Crevis, you love an ocean vista. These are things I know to be true. Thank you. Thank you to our team Wordex crew here. Oh operating in the shadows.. They're trol what makes it out Con domingo and we're all your disciples. Carlos Ceroga. Yeah. Scotley, correct. Jacob Cornet., Absolutely. Re Junor Ram Gapowell. Yeah. Joey A Deneron, Wow. Squad Amazing qu The truth doesn't belong to them any moreore than the light or the air They are our squad. Beautiful Pate kept, sometimes you can say things . We'll see everybody on Monday for Listat. Later next week for Dark Night Rises And then