Final Thoughts and Wrap Up

Greetings. And and welcome to House of R. a Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer podcast network I'm Mallory Rubin joining me today. We may appear to We h bodies of women but we possess the heart and spirit of a king It's Joanna Robinson Come to Pod for the Dragon quQeen. What if I just say that every week? We've come to Pod for the Dragon quQueen. Rodney the Ruin and his iconic quotes are welcome here at the House of R our All times, whether or not it's a house of the Dragon deep dive as I'm concerned today is a house of the Dragon Deep dive. We're gonna dive deep profoundly Slessly Dep, we are going to plumb the des. We're going to the bottom of the gullet Right, just like poorack. n' sp This episode of House of Aar is presented to you by Target For thirty years, Pokemon has shown that adventures are better together, and Target is calling all trainers to the celebration That's because there's something for every era of fan in the Pokemon and Target limited time collection. Thought you found them all after the first drop Sink again. two just landed featuring life sized Pokemon puzzles and an instant print digital camera. The entire collection is in store And online, so check it out now. Explorer now at target d. comot For adults with Crohn's disisease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters Trumphia offers self injection or intravenous infusion from the start Trymphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self inject trmphia, proper training is required. Tremphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease, and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection flu like symptoms or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphia today. Call one eight hundred five two six seven seven thirty six to learn more. or visit Trempharadio. comot All right before we get started, we're sort of editing this into the magic of editing. say. We just got confirmation from folks in the note, folks who would definitely know this., that the location where Ulf and Hugh and Adam spend some time in this episode, seeason three episode one banks of the God's eye, not the Isle of faces, which is something we talked about on T of Thrones. Yes. So we are re editing this podcast. If at any point we say Is of faces. Yeah, it slipped through the edit. We didn't mean it. We're Gonna to do our absolute best. Yeah, we're gonna to do our absolute best But think we just time traveled to make this update And now we get to talk about programming reminders, which we originally shared three hours ago. Go for it Okay. Joanna, before we get to season three episode one, the season three premiere Let's it's some programing reminders. What else is cooking? Oh guess what? Yeah, more House of the Dragon. That's right. Hawk the Thrones with Christopher Ryan right after Season three episode two, and season three episode three, and season three episode four and so on and so on. Also Queen talk the Thrones and House the Dragon plumbing, the very depths of this story and history and culture is a slightly less profound dive but nonetheless important into the vampirelessat. Absolutely. We're sinking our fang. So it's talk of Thrones, the Vampireless Stat, and House of Dragon Deep Dive. Those are the three hits you can expect from us every week. However Should there be a film release that we're excited about? and pererhaps you will get us not thrice, but four times a week. It's entirely possible. Very normal. We didn't rewatch every single Christopher Nolan movie and talk about all of them to like not cover the odyssey when that comes out. For be funny. That would be wild. That's like if we watched all of Doctor Who and then didn't cover the new scenes of Doctor Who. Not something we would do who would do that I'd love for you to follow along. S Spot. please, you can watch full video episodes of Howouse Far and the Midnight Boys Poooo. Spotify, YouTube Sotify YouTube, follow the Ringverse YouTube channel. What. Yeah. Yeah. What if I follow the House of our pod on Instagram or TikTok? G at House of ourur pod. I' suggest you do it. You might get Some dragon math from us, some social first only dragon mathem us Boy, what else will you get? He gotta follow to find out Email us. please, Hobbitss and dragonssgemail d. com. The inbox is always open. The whole crew was so excited to fire off the raven. We heard that many people exited to fireing in the control room to press the button for the call. So spoiler warning. Yeah Let's explain, let's refresh how we handle spoilers for Thrones pots For House of the Dragon Please If it happened in this episode of television, season three episode one, that's not a spoiler. Were talking about it all. It's a de dive that's the entire point of the podcast. If it's ever happened in any other episode of Game of Thrones televion or prior episode of the show, an episode of Game of Thrones Proper, maybe even theight of the Seven Kingds I think neither the Seven Kingdoms on the table. Could come up today. Fair game throughout to sprinkle in passages from Fire and Blood, the text that this show is adapted from and some other textual notes, references context But none of that will spoil future events. We will, however, have a dedicated book spoiler section at the very end of the podcast. So anything that happens in the future that we know from the books And we know a lot. We'll talk, but it's always kind of a question mark in this show in particular, given the nature of the adaptation. know reiters in the books. We think we know a lot. We don't know shit. We don't know anything Brian Connell's like, Oh, you think you know? You have no idea Chief steelers coming to the g. Exactly. God, we were like sitting here for years, waiting for nettles.. Look at us s now Look at us now just receiving a lot of texts from David Jacobbe about where' Nutles. We haven't got com it this week. That's how I know he hasn't watched y it. Oh, okay. fair enough. Yeah. We'll know the second I watch I feel sure. I feel sure. You're right. So before we get to the book spoiler section at the end, we will issue another warning. We will let you know it's time if you want to hang around, if you've read the books or you just are like, I want to know anyway, greatreat If you don't want to know, that's your moment to leave. It's a brief little section at the end. there's usually a pretty scary sound effect. Carlos will select. but he's been playing around you know, dabbling so that you are properly warn but not alarmed and imperiled while on the road, as we have heard Some people feel. If you have a cardiac condition, we would not like to trigger it. Just to save you from book spoilers. As everyone can tell, we are super well rested and in a really normal place today. We're both doing great. We are genuinely excited to be here for the pod. I won't say that we are as well rested and cogent and balanced as we've ever been, but may maybe that'll be great. I'm gonna to say to you J said to Vela. Yeah We're ready. Yeah. It's not our purpose. We're ready. And they were so we. It went Which one of us is the JO podcasting? Probably both of us. Bogging till the bitter endnd. Serv and face ye. P from this video podcast all watch on Spotify too the bottom of the drink All right Any other intro notes before we get to The opening snapshot Joonor Robinson first of your name? No what I'm so excited to be back with you. Me too. This is not a sentence, but an honor It is time for the opening snapshot little sound of the sword. Nicked. Wonderful. Let's start here In a minute It's been a minute, I mean, for us we potted about this very episode of television mere days ago. Oh yeah Is your granny voice? I love it. That's like my Titanic voice. Oh yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. wonderful. Well in this episode because you know if you watch the House of Dragons Built, so feature app, a lot of like, I worked on the Titanic brought me in for the guullet Doid they talk about the time that they put what was it like PCP in the clam chatter on the set of the Titanic? no, I've heard you talk about that before. That's a great nugget. Janu is my favorite st.'s a great nugget. Um It's been two years since the television program, House of the Dragon aired.rect. And we have had the pleasure of returning to Westeros in the interim. We covered a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms a show that we adored and that many Game of Thrones fans adored. but it's been a couple years since we got to watch Hadi Much of that season was quite good. It did not end in a place where people were super pumped or super jazzed, including us. It was like that's not where this should have ended. It should have ended with Gullet or maybe what came after. And you know what? the people make the show agree. That would have been amazing. They wanted that. This episode at the end of season two would have been a fucking banger, however, that's not how it happened. We waited two years How does it feel just to be back in the world of House of the Dragon? and then What did you make? Give us like a little table setting taste how you found this premiere, which is called, I should note, salt and sea fire and blood. and if you had said to me down a bet. what's this episode going to be called? I' have said Veg took it off the board. It's going to be called Gullet, The Gullet, or Battle of the Gullet, because that's how Game of Thrones battle episodes are named. One last mg Serving face, Jase. Mong to the left All right Uh Saltan Sea, of course, that is Yes, Corleon Allan claims to be Sultan right. see fire and blood Laurece, Yeahah Bela and the rest of them. So, you know Um, air, Ca. love it. Yeah. Yeah, okay by land. All right, so listen, Yeah tell me. Critics were raving about this season Um, and then I saw theact the fan reaction I saw was like positive, but like mix mixed positive, but positive. You know, that's what I saw. You saw like overwhelmingly positive? Yes, though I never know how to process that because I think everybody and this is just true for people in general in twenty twenty six, the Year of our Lord Everybody's internet experienceces a bubble of their own algorithmic design. so I don't even know how to tell what's the wider Yeah, like it's just this is a thing to kind of reckon with. Yeah. So I'm trying to and in general, we always like to say, oh, rot tootatoes, IMDB rating, like you take that with a grain of salt always. You know, this episode is a nine point three on IMDB with a lot of votes. Does that mean anything? Maybe not Right? Like does that stuff ever mean me think? Maybe not. So it's more like for me talking to people in my life. Like I heard from a lot of people who watched this and like, I thought that was a banger. I thought that was great. We're back. I will say this Those are not people who were like done with their show at the end of season two. So I'm trying to be cognizant of that. Like was the episode? I think if you like House of the Dragon, you were maybe bummed by how it ended but excited for the return and hyped and anticipating the return. Yeah. I think it feels like there's a pretty jubilant reaction to the episode. Nothing is unanimous, but that people are like, okay, we're back. I think this is going to go in a good place. Was the episode and maybe the response to it enough to bring back people who are like, this show iss not for me. It's too dour, It's too slow. It's not the it's not the tone or vibe I want. I don't have a feel for that yet. I don't know if you do. And we should know that people, you know, people writing the reviews for this season are working off of probably like four episodes right for the josh and stuff like that. So That's a more complete picture than the one we're talking about here today. I think there were well, I'll just say this, I love being back in Westeros. U I really missed like Emma Darcy's Rhaenyra. I really missed Olivia Coke's Alisent. You know, I had a great time with Helena in this episode. Theres There's a lot to really like in this episode. I like got really into Olf again in this episode. I forgot how much I love Tom Bennett in this role, et cetera What did you think of his ass wiping strategy with the very like kind of sparse leaf So not a more ample leaf. Well, I think if our if our friend Tyson from Survivor were here, he would have said gone go in the lake No going in the lake You don't wipe. You go let the water wash you clean go in the lake So you one's ever shit in the go's ey I think someone is taken a shit in the gds. I absolly think someone anyway. okay I love I love doing this with you This just like thrills me. It's really hard for me to divorce my experience of watching the show from my experience of doing Talk of the Thrones and then the deep dives with you. You know what I mean? It's all of a piece And there's nowh I'd rather be than sitting across from you talking about Westeros. So that's all shame It's just like the highlight of my year every time we get to do it. The fact that we got to do it twice this year or are getting to do it. we're just beginning the second time. And allegedly we'll be back in January. I know. That's fun. You know, the monoculture is such a rare thing One of the things we always like to celebrate with the Ringer is like even when in the peak TV streaming M era It is rare for a show to feel like it has like a vast seismic audience anymore even so when it does, it's amazing. evenven so if it doesn't, but it's like there are people watching it and they care about it. L the passion, the engagement of people who love the thing is one of the greatest joys of podcasts, you know, we always love to get to like share it with each other with the bad babies. That's always so fun. So Thrones is like, been an uneven experience in a mixed bag since like season seven of the original series. We've had our peaks, we've had our valleys. earlier you know, I love season six that's all season five. The The opportunity to return to Westeros is like always something I look forward to. and then I hope we get to enjoy being there week after week I'm encouraged by the start. We, you know, we got to breakd down twow of the three trailers heading into the season, the third one we didn't get to do because I was not in the country. She was abroad in Sweden and I couldn't do it without her U notot true, but most of the company was there and so there was no one to produce a podcast. That is true. If I knew how to turn on the cameras, Oh man. and you know feeleeling that energy when we like got to break down the trailers, these moments from the canon from the story that we are so anticipating, I really feel like season three and four If we had a doover from the word go here with some things about the Pacing of seasons one and two, which have episodes in them that I adore and also some like questionable would this have been plotted and broken exactly this way choices I think where it leaves us is hopefully a really rich Full place for seasons three and four very action forward full of a lot of major moments, big battles, gullet esque moments in the story that I think will give the people who are like, I'm waiting for those moments. somethingomething to look forward to. The Fus on and their relationships, the way that something like the Aliceent when Jace is like Can you trust this person? We're watching at home and we're like The show is rooted around the history between those characters. And so I am confident and hopeful that even as these spectacle swells, You know I don't know we'll go more than a couple of episodes at this point the rest of the series without like a big showdown of some sort that we will also still be properly calibrated and balanced with the character beats that we love. So I thought that this was a great way to start the season. I really enjoyed it quite sad about Vermax because I love the dragons. When the dragons move toward each other, I just like in the score surges, something in my heart like ates It's something I just really love about being in the world. So I'm hyed to be back. I'm excited to keep watching and covering the season. I really like A highight I didn't talk about this enough, I think on T talkal of Thrones. A real highlight for me and something that got me really excited for the season Uh was the introduction introduction of Oarman Hight Tower. Like I thinkt, you know, like We when we think about Thrones and we think about like the characters who joined us in season two or season three or whatever, you know, like it's always fun to add new Layers to the world and James Norton is an actor I've always like really, really loved and Orman Highower. I think I wanted to like clear for Chris Ryan to like You share his love for James Nordon, but like I love James Norton. and I think Orman Highower and what they're doing with that character is really, really fun. So to like get to know that contingent, just even a little bit, just like very briefly, but like a really memorable introduction. V was very exciting. I think a challenge they have this season is like our characters, you know H. The complaint early of early House the Dragon was, we're all just like in King's Landing. Yeah. Like team Green Team Black are all just like in the castle all the time. Yes. And it's just like Daemon gets to leave sometime and then eventually they like move out to Dragonstone and stuff like that. But like oftentimes we're just in this set. Yeah. Now we are scattered to the wind.. You know what I mean? And so that's a challenge know There' is a challenge on Thrones when like people spread out too much And you're like, do I want a little bit more time with Gwayne and Kristen? I do. And I want a little more time with Alice. and I want a little more, you know, it's just sort of like There's a lot going on. And so how much are we going to be able to check in with everyone And will it feel like we lose track of anyone because we can only check in with them a little bit? That's a question I have for this season. but But yeah, I'm excited to talk to you about it M so A lot of characters, a lot of places on the map said Devastating cataclysmic dragon warar, so a lot of them are gonna die then there will be characters that don't make it easier. don't make it easier. Let's start bumping off those main characters and dragons, shall we Uh,hall we get to the deep dive? Let's do it. Let's head to the bels of the Pleasure Dan This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile home runun derbies right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and all sports baseballs Biggest sluggers. along with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia L Duncan Yeah Pence, Matt Fast Kurzian, a whole bunch of people And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. You swing. to make history. Im interested is who what Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live. from Citizens Bank Park In Philly, watch the T mobile Home rununs be live on Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific Heat up your fourourth of July at the Home Depot with our wide variety of grills under three hundred dollars and make every gathering one to remember Give your outdoor space a glow up. whatever your budget is, with savings on seasonal plants starting at five dollars. With the grill fired up and your backyard set to perfection, you'll be able to invite friends and family over to kick off the party. Start celebrating with low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot. Prices vary by stor exusions a pricey Home deepot com sl priceash for details So good, so good, so good. New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to sixty percent off brands like Rag and Bone, Levi', Adidas, and Free People. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack That's right. That's the Mallie R in Dragon Sch. I always forget the bowels of the Bishen. Not a character we got any update on by the way, in this H toower. Speaking of high towers. L is Lo. Wh's Lo? St still waiting. That is kind of wild, actually to be waiting two years. it's like, keep waiting Now. A mysterious appearance from Autto at the end of season two and we still don't know what the hell's going on. Nope. We're going to go through this episode broadly Sequentially, broadly in order, every now and then we're gonna like cluster some stuff. For example, we get many Renna Sheep stealer check ins before the guullet arrival. We're gonna cluster all of those and dinner Oh my god. Oh, is that what it looks like when you eat dinner? Sometimes, honestly, sometimes, sometimes it's like I'm really cross each hand. No I don't do en incrustibles for dinner. I know I'm a big enthusiast of an incrustible for an office lunch or a quick snack But as you also know I I mean, I honestly can't remember at home without company The last time I sat down at a table to have dinner, Adam and I eat at TV trays next I spent a lot ofents as a third in your marriage and I know this int. We I think no, no, I was gonna to say we s at the kitchen island with you, which we did, but we also then the TV trace came out, I think midway through the visit The thing is you only have two TV trays so it was just like Adam sat at a table over there and you and I sat up. we had four at some point. Don't know where they went. Good noe. We'll look into that Rena Rena claimed shef stealer in the Vail. Let's start here because we pick up right where season two ended, which was Rena deciding not to admittedly a begrudgingly made pledge, right? Not a pledge that Reenna wanted to me because she was like babysitters club couldn't be me. Not for me, right? Rhaenyra was like, I need to be the mother to them that I cannot teach them, train them, guard them as a dragon guards her eggs. and Renna was like, I've got some feedback on this. J like ultimately went to the il. and then Little Egon, littleittle Viserys Get aboard the gay abandon City footprint, city popprint Rayna's like I'm gonna, I got some business to take care out of here. Okay, so that's where we left Rayna. and that is where we start the season because obviously, Sheep Stealer and Ryna are going to have a key role to play in the events to come. So A reminder on the Rinna frront as This is actually something I wanted to note quickly as well on in the reminder front. because one of the things we talked to Chris about Chris opened to Throwes and basically was like, didid you guys remember what was happening in the story? We tried not to be too rude in response. whether we succeeded, I don't know. But he, I think completely fairly was like, because it's been so long and there are so many storylines and characters, like are people going to have Um, any trouble C meeting again B had watched a screener We got many emails about this. There was a six and a halfizable minute I believe previously on. I am struggling to recall a time a television show opened with a previously on that long. That wasn't like a series finale or something. Rones did a really long one once, but I can't rec maybe final season or something like that But yeah, sizable recap for. Yeah. So it's like, okay, yeah, it's been a long time. a lot has happened. Let's catch Four years since we started this adventure. That's pretty wild That's it's been an entire high school My goodness. Yeah. and entire Sunnydale High. So Renna had been plagued, right by insecurity over not having a dragon. we could think back to something like the Pento stint. When the family was there and Rena's like singing to her egg, roasting her egg in the fire and her mother had to say like I had a harder path, you're gonna have a harder path, right? Some of them never hatch. Rena's like, amm I gonna be able to stay? Dad doesn't talk to me you like me becausecause I'm not a writer. T tough when your dad's entire personality is dragon. It is. Yeah. And he's like, Baila. Yeahads Bala. Let's learn Valarian L like blah blah, and he's like, Ryna, you're also here. Not ideal. And so obviously that's a formative wound. think comp to Amond is very appropriate given that we saw young Amond be bullied, be humiliated because he didn't have a dragon and matched up the one that Ranon wanted. Exactly. her mother's dragon. Yeah. It's not like Amand has completely worked through all of that. That's still very much hanging over. So the desperate reckless thing you're willing to do is you don't have a dragon and your entire family is like the dragon family. You're saying Amond has some psychological issues. He could stand to work through a few more things. I think Amond would really enjoy therapy. Would he enjoy it? I don't, he would benefit from it. He would benefit from it. Here's the here's the thing with Rayna doing her little how to Train your Dragon sequence here at the beginning of this episode. understand. Her desire to be of use, her desire to be part of her family. She's not filming the outside, N not just be a babysitter, all of that sort of stuff Let's train a little longer in the veil. I'm not saying she left the veil to go to battle. She didn't. She was just trying to get back to Dragonstone. She's like, let's go back to Dragonstone.. And I'll show them that I got a dragon. I'm saying Stay in the available bitil now I understand No access to showers All of your meals are regurgitated sheep. But freshly roast. Is she getting any roughge? You need freshly roasted.'t man cannot live on mutton alone. I'm not the one to consult on a balanced diet I say trade a little longer. I think it's a good note and worthy piece of feedback that Ryna would have benefited from hearing. Yeah Yeah, going right into battle. and this is the theme in the episode is good intention, bad outcome, right? But when a good intention is paired with a desperate need to prove yourself, whether you're rain in this circumstance or whether you' chase Bad things happen. The hubris, this through line for this character set rears its head. manyany times they're not just for the dragon riders, right? Like even something like Corless with the pretty Pret prettyty sick through the teeth Dragonstone pass maneuver. He's like Lower iss not going to be able to follow. Well, guess what Lower vllowload. Right. So many different examples as well. Sheep sailor which should also notice like a wild dragon, Joanna I never had a rider. Exactly. So that's tough. veryy old dragon. You know,'ve been around a long time, but never had a rider. Iister J wrote in to say, just thought I'd point out that what seemingly identifies Sheeptailer as a quote wild dragon is a bad case of snaggled tooth and a horrific underbite. If that's what sets them apart from the others, then are the dragons hatched into royalty receiving some sort of regular dental care. brrushing, flossing, etceter. Do the royal dragons get braces when they're young to straighten their fangs? Do they need to wear a retainer to keep their teeth from shifting back? Who's doing that job? First of all Dragon keepers never sleep No Dragon keepepers do a lot but also I think the It might be just an underbite bor born onto an underbite. But it might also be like the canannibal, another wild dragon over on Dragonstone this dragon up a little bit but ye might have fucked Ceepsailer up a bit and maybe that's why Cepsailer is like It to go to the ale. You know who's not the ale, the cannibal. You know who's in the ale, a bunch of sheep. So I'm gonna go steal some sheep from the Vale and live in the misty mountains. Honestly, that climate looked delightful to me. The beautiful misty fog of the Vale. Beautiful Yeah Plenty of food And no we see how sheepser once in the gullet responds to the presence of other dragons and just in general activity, right? So a bit of a loner. I thought the Enderbite was Oh it is a great delight to touch dragon. His whole design. Like he's bonier and scalier and like all these other things. So yeah, great design Johon I headed this? claiming compomared to the other claimings that we've seen. anything So you're thinking about you're thking about Amond and Vagar Ceaske claiming Adam.e Ceke say fuck cannon Sure. silver wing Romothor What about Danny? Danny and Drogon Oh my Godd I mean, an all timer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And was in general actually was the sewing? like how top of mind was the sewing from the penal ultimate episode of seeason two for you in terms of just like really heightening our awareness of the danger of this. You know when young Aemond goes to claim Vagar and like certainly could get roasted or eaten or fall off, It's scary, it's big, it's this massive moment. But the carnage that we see in the Red So and paired with this like little nugget that we get that Rinna tried to previously claim Z smoke and almost died in the attempts. So like The fact that that's the backdrop for all of this and this is a wild Dragon who's been around since Je Harris the first youth and has never had a rider. like the Llihood of this working out is very slim. There's no harness. There's no rope to climb, right? It's just like, grab those spikes, hold on and disappear into the fog Was it scary It was frustrating 'cause I did not feel like Randa was being very smart. But I understand her desperation This is a lifelong insecurity for her. so I understand that. but a lot of the characters in this episode are not being very smart. And Ryna is certainly the first among many. So when she takes this risk And Sheep Steeler's first move is just like bomb off the cliff, you know, I'm just like surprised that she's like suuccess. Yeah. I did it. Got like half a line of the Dragon Lullab byy out and interrupted by a roar Yeah, he's like, I don't care for karaoke. Thankk you very much. But also there's no reason sheep Stealer should understand Valyriian. Sheep Staler has not been trained. So she's like trying to like access Sheep Stealer with all of these commands And Sheep Stealer's like, I don't speak your language.. I don't care for your songs. I didn't attend lessons in the Dragon pit. No. But we can eat some sheep. Yeah, we can eat sheep together. toossing the Oh, the shape was sweet sweet. L like your little baby bird. L it's great, but yeah Given that Chief Stealer does not understand Valyrian and then we ride him into battle and then try to keep him under control with some Valyrian. Not effective. No, not effective. And his fear for himselff and also his desire to protect his ride are very apparent, but the ability to be fully in sync I was thinking about this showing a lot, of course, because what the adaptive change that has happened here is that the character of Ryna has been swapped for this other character that they're clearly now not doing the show. Yes. This girl named Nettles. Yes. Where are you on this choice? Now that it is definitive and undeniable. It was trending this way, but now we know for sure. I understand it completely from a TV storytelling point of view. It's the economy of characters, right? We have a character who is insecure about not having a dragon We could just yada yadda yada, Rna, you know, out of the story, essentially, or we could swap her in for this other character and then make it all much closer to the family what happens here Nettles, we should say in the book is, you know, a common girl., right? And during the sowing, like she shows up on sheep stealing and she's just like, I don I found some sheep. and I got this I got thisross.. She wass like a really impressive thing. and what's so interesting about her is like unlike the other dragon seeds, There's no clear indication that Nettles has Targaryen blood in her. She might, there's various rumors, as' fire and blood. any rumor can fly, you know. But she might not. And so then it introduces this tantalizing question of like, can anyone claim a dragon You know, and and that all goes out the window when you swap this like common girl for this princess, Potargion princess, you know? And so you lose that for sure. But in terms of like economy of storytelling As Kondol is struggling to keep control of the story. We've talked about this on Tal of Thrones, putting characters we already know into battles so that we don't have to introduce like ten new characters that you've never met before or just to have them die or whatever. So we're really trying to keep everyone anchored into characters they've already met and know. So I really understand that. Yeah. But you do lose something in doing so. Yeah, it's a great shout and like we already referenced Jacobi, but one of our pals and a lot of people feel this way was very worried as it clearly pointed toward Raina going for Sheepsealer, like, for a lot of reasons, right? but also specifically that, what that maybe robs people of the ability to believe about who could And it's like, you know, maybe there's just something in the in the family tree and somewhere along the way, like Nettles also is a dragon seed and that would be a thing that people learned at some pointike just glimmer of an ota of a chance that that's not the case. veryery interesting Um There are other story beats on the Nettles front that I some of which I have questions about now, some of which I think There's a very neat swap Terinna in terms of outcome, if not plot detail. We'll talk about that in the book spoiler section. I'm excited to. But it's a consequential character. and so it's a big move to make And I did, you know, you popped on this quote that Ryan Condal gave to IGN in an interview that I believe dropped this morning, but You know, where he was talking about the sort of economy of characters. But he said, you know, in addition to other things, Game of Thrones in Westerosian kind of way to reap the consequences of having her wish come true about Reyna. I was thinking so much about Sansa in this moment, Sansa who's like, I'm going to marry Jeoffrey and I'm going to be a princess or Bran, you know, like these young characters in a song of Ice and Fire who have these romantic ideas of what it means to be a knight or what it means to be a princess. And for Renna, what it means to be a dragonrider, I will be a dragon wrider and then I will be recognized by my father and embraced in my family and taken seriously. and they'll look at me the way they look at Bela and all this sort of stuff like that And then this absolutely fucking disaster at the gullet. So yes We will talk about the Gllet more, obviously at the end of the episode, but I think it is a thematically very rich choice to have Rainna be in that position And in general choosing to make the goaulet more of a family affair. But before we get there open the episode with a couple of there's just glimpses of characters, right? So A and Pes or while out of bed takes him right to the chopping block, Back fire in hand is about to be head. Ed fit, fetch me the block Exactly, first good and useful thing iron rod has ever done ing l like Laris, It's entirely possible. It's like Laris is also gone and Aam' like, okay, so Laris is the one who helped E on escape. Here's the thing For a while? He's been doing some stuff. He's been up to some shit, Johanna. And so how long now does Aemon Has he escaped name in suspicion, right? Like does this buy him najor time? He I Allicon get to Dragonstone, for example, He was working with Laris to help E with his walking lessons so that they could prepare to flee. Yeah. So this is just a fascinating little very quick scene that kind of reminds us Who's been in cahoots with whom about what for how long? Everybody has their Wh's been Cooton. Who's been Cahoot? It's also just a nice way before we get the very very good close up of the hand on Blackfyire as Amond is sitting on the throne.s a good way to remind us He's got the ancestral Valerans deeal Sword Blackfyire. He has the Catsba dagger. He's able to sit on the Iron throne. you know he doesn't have the crown because that is with Our besties best. Eggon and Laryis. O the surprise duo like they worked our way into their way into our in a way that we couldn't expect. Yeah. Yeah, where are Egon and Laryis and Kristen and Gawayne for you compared to like the iconic. It's Jamie and Brianne. And then it's egon and Ler. I mean Anyone watching would believe you if you said that was list Ppletely plausible aware this is like your favorite character on the show He's great in this episode. The dad want be real. I love So Aegon's going through the DTs, right? He's like going through Mil of the Poppy withdrawal. He's also in like, o, this killed me. This was so funny. So when I had surgery last year, my beloved friends who came to the hospital and like drove me home, loveved them forever, respect them forever. they did take The most hot holiest road home. Their idea was to avoid the freeway because they thought it would like josle me less and then they took back roads that were just like And I just like really felt like Aegon in the carriage where you're just sort of like being josle every second and you're just like in tremendous amount of pain. Is that a setting on like Apple or Google Maps or ways? Pot hol is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeahah. And they're like that' avoidreeays, avoid pot holes. Yeah, yeah. Probably not possible here in California. ultimately. I found this scene very amusing. I loveved this because Agon's like I'm nothing. Yeah. I'm a cripple. And Lar's like, hello. I know. I thought that was fascinating. He just helped you escape. It's me. And then the fact that he said a cripple for a protector So I was trying to like look at Lyis's face and see how much you revealed in that moment because some of our highlights of season two were those really raw vulnerable moments between them and me and Lyr fly out like breaking down in tears. they will underestimate you, right? And this where it like ar managage, the wayar it like armoris, cribles bastards and broken things bond that really organically emerged between the two of them This felt like well,ang, it's more on Laris's side obviously. Well, But also, I think Laris was manipul, you know, like for sure for absolutely. We talked about this at the time. that there were like, layers here, but Laris is definitely like weaving a spell of like, we're not so different, you and I. No crush. You can have a different life, the two of us together on the road Yeah in on your ra thone But like So but there was authenticity there. So yeah, but what I love about Lar is. I mean's goo ahead. why he's the best. ennumerate the ways Is he's hurt? yes He masks it very quickly. Q quite well because he's a consummate manipulator. He is. You know, It it's like him and Allicent trying to mask her disgust over Am kissing her. One of't Yeah. One of them did a better job of controlling the thing. Well For Allicent, that was for the camera. You know, I don't think Ayman saw it. That was for us, you know. But I love this. And then so yeah, The staunted men stopp the wagon, right Uh So Lords of Roks Rest. So we're right by Rok's Rest as they as they mentioned. made it a little weird that they were like, whereere's the closest port, Duskndale, given that like a fairly memorable stretch of season two was Prsticles march from those locations to one after the other Anyway U and this is fantastic. What What's the planning between these two? This is what I wanted to ask you. I it was a stressful time. Yeah. Were you getting some like John and Sanw you couldn't have a pre meeting. Just one. Re good tell could really No one could toss any embola points into a Google Doc. No one. Now you have a meeting Larsis didn't have time to grab the milk of the puppy fine. They're in the wagon on the Rven shit Do you think L really talking about? You you think Lair's actually didn't have time to grab Munk of the pop No? No, I think I like the idea that he is doing this on purpose so that Egon is in anguish and thus more reliant on him, but also more clear headed than he was a milk both the fog. Yeah fog of the milk. M reliant on Laris, but also theoretically sharper, though not very sharp in this exchange here. I can't say he seems to be super lucid when like all he has to do is bow and say, yeah, I'm for Rhaeny just for thirty seconds. And I get it. It would be galling if you were Agon to have to do that but you could have done it. You also could have shaved your head You could now he hasn't had the advantage that we have had of watching a Kight of the Seven Kingdoms and knowing that that really does work. I would recommend it though. It's a great sit I mean, if your cock is gonna explode like a sausage on a spit, at that point, just say goodbye to the Golden Locks as well. Absolutely. Just say goodbye to all of it Go cognito, my guys, I b ace on the roong. The alacrity with which Laris just gives up the crown is among the funniest things I've seen Asolutely.'s like this thing And I wass like, No What when Lyris reveals his identity and again it's like, what? and then the crowd? No, I was in tears laughing. Are those guys important? No andheaded. Like it's just like I did that did you Did you have a moment on that front as a Laryus lover where you were like, boy, that is like Good, Wow, what a monster. He doesn't care about this guys for a second. or have you seen he burned his own father and brother or your un fith? Hold my hand. Loving someone means accepting their flaws Murderers And I know are welcome. You love Damon Oh sice be honest about what we're willing to express. What's wrong with us? I take the good with the bad. I take the creepy foot fetish and the patricide and whatever it's called fratricide. No quick shaming here at the House of our. No King shaming. Qickinkam. So whatself out of a sticky spot? What do you temporarily Temparily. So what what do you read in the in the Lyus plan here? Is it M I It's whatever it takes to survive to the next day. I am biding time until I can figure out what's next. Yeah And he trusts his own intellect, frankly reasonably to be able to figure out ye, what comes next But I also just like this This is just like an incredibly precious important crown and it's just sort of like insane. There go. J just absolutely insane to let this random captain of Alaunton D handle Egon the Cqueror's crrown, frankly, how dare they? The next glimpse we get is Rhaenyra sharing the news of Aliceent's visit. It goes as well as we would have expected. I also just love we've like tracked this across the seasons. There are so many incredible I mean, in general, the show iss beautifully shot and Some of the Rhenyra framings in particular, like some of the close framings we've gotten of the glint on the eye, et cetera, this was looking out the window up into the sky, talking about belief. I have to believe. And this is something where we're's different context here.' talking about I have to believe in Alent, the word, the bond, the reasons behind it. But with Rhaenyra, we're always clocking any mention of belief from a character was like prophecy justifies this. The outcome of the sewing sanctions that, right? This is like aura around the character that is important for us. I was thinking a lot also about Kristin when Gwayne's like Hey man ere Aaman 's happening. Yep. My Ch's like, he will come He has to come You know, And so there's that belief too. Yep. I don't know. That's an interesting thing for me to think about. likeike Kristin Cole's state of mind and what he believes like what he's putting stock in at this point Yeah. and He's like, we didn't bro out by the firelight night after night at King's Landing for him not to show up for me. Is that Is that is the bro bond or like what is I think even the fracture that emerged between them after Roks' rest the what? What Kristen understood transpired in a way that very few people understand and the wave it amment that ed him out. like the Harrenhall pursuit was as much about getting Kristen out of there and like punishing him as anything else. So I think the question of whether Kristen, who in general, as we'll talk about is in just a state of shattered faith, right? All of these things that I put stock in are just like the bodies around me after Ro's rest dust in the wind, right? So the nihilistic view. And so I think it's almost like it felt to me less like believing in the pledge of their bond and more like What I understand to be true about Amond is that he will not be able to he can't help himself care Aamon out. ye Yeah. I love that exper. And even though we then get this other interesting insight into what actually happens there that's from Chris's perspective, what I saw. Jace receives the Alisent news by saying flat, this is a trp. Now, there is a trap coming but not actually Allison's attention Right. And you know, Roks Rest is fresh on our mind. We lost a very important drag and a dragon Rider, Rokss Rest and that was a trap. It was. So it I think a Jace does a lot of unreasonable shit in this episode. being suspicious of this is I think, actually quite reasonable We're not gonna defend Jace a lot from here, I Sure, let's give it to a all we can. Why not And did you see the jawline? when he said it's a? Did you see the? jawline? Did you see the hair? my goodness Um, Bhenya tells her small cs, I thought this was fascinating. She tells her small council The Greens know their defeat is rich Joanna, that is not what happened. That is not what Alice in two years I try to remember what was said. It's been mere hours. It's been two years Wh was what Allen's childhood was like and who knows what Allisen said in the finale? As you know, that drove me crazy, and I'm still puzzled by it Crown will pursue war and victory at any cost. Well That is what Allison said. But does she believe that? I don't know L here's the thing about like, why does Allison want out in this moment? Yeah Bathtubs of the world call to her for sure Wh among us S secondcond podcast this week we're talking about baths won't be the last up Uh, okay So there's that there's like, I want to protect Helena. Yes. my one. Darren's also allegedly a good child, but like my one girl child that I care about or whatever, not my granddaughter, the female line, I care, blah blah. out of the small counil No one will no one will listen to me. I thought I could rule from, you know soft power from behind, blah blah blah. hot phrase what Bye She and I would say Krist and Cole both found out where the ceiling was on upwardward advancement for women for the low lowerborn, know, et ccetera. So she's like, oh, you know, it's that rain' quote, right about like you know, found a window in the prison, like sort of thing, you know? And so like, ye So that's part of it. her own frustrated ambitions, her own, you know, like found the limit, found the walls of the prison. Yeah Um doesnesn't want any moreore carnage? Right. That wants an end into the bloodshed for And I believe that. I believe that. I think because if it's not real, then it makes Aicent a b An irredeemable. R Like I lost a grandson. I'd rather not lose. Yeah anymore. chararacters who find themselves in a place of Finding the violence and especially at the end of this episode, because one of the lessons of the guullet is like and we talk we we had a good conversation with Chris about this on Talk to Throne. It's like, is there such a thing as a victor, right? And that's that is part of the point of this story, right? c Dragon war. Yeah. That's like very central to the story The characters who look at the toll justify it because the outcome is something that they believe is either right for them or in the case of like the looming spectr of the prophecy necessary then you can make that calculus and what that says about your morality is interesting. If Allisent is just like I don't care if all these people die. and I don't think that's the character that we have grown to really feel so deeply invested in. I agree. I just think as with the Laris thing, there's just like Nine different reasons for sure. you know, And I think when she says the crown will pursue Yeah war I think she might Aond will or Agon will. Yeah. You know what I mean? But like yes, for sure. At the end of the day, I don't know And I think what's interesting is to think about What is Kristen's reaction to u You know, the two of them were like, so, so, so, uh oh, reap, reap, reap, right? That's where they found themselves, right And Chris's reaction is like We'll be W' be beast before this is over for the end. Yeah. And Alison's like Can I write enough scrolls and kiss enough sons Yeah and schem enough schemes to at least get Two people that I care of out of danger as along with myself I think all of it from Allison's perspective makes perfect sense as a pursuit as a framing. Bically she didn't tell Rhaenyra about like the triarchy and she knows that Aamond wanted to secure the trialy because she was one of the characters to tried talk him out of it Mostly she was forthright with Rhaenyra about the overall state of play and her intentions and personal motivation. She's not going to be able to follow through on that because of which she'll f back at the right keep tough Great wrinkle, right The thing I was interested in is what Rhaenyra heard. and received, like the idea that because Rhaenyra's counselors and sons saying like, can you believe her? Can you trust her? Overall, obviously, especially given that Rhenyra's own son and Queen'sgard will like imp lock her in her bedroom and imprison her. this like takeake, not great. notot ideal. How often are the men and the people who claim to support me And Bent the N and said that I am the rightful heir. What is this actually going look like for them to follow through on that in real life? Like I think in general, Rhenyra saying I Have the conviction and clarity of being able to say, I know what is right makes sense to me I think that it feels a little bit in an interesting dramatic way of a piece with Rhaenyra. like She's receiving this as the greens overall know they've lost, which is not what to your point. defefinitely not what Aimmond is going to do, not what Agon is going to do. Amond's like we got a bunch of high Twower men. not what the High toowers are going to do, not what. So, you know, to put it it's too much stock being put in the idea that This like sense of one thing working out, one person coming to me, a pledge made, I'm chosen. I have to believe means that everything will actually work It's interesting because we're watching it and we know that Rhaenyr is telling the truth and Allison to the best of her ability is telling the truth. Yes So we're like buy women, right Yeah. But if we're Jace or even Maria Um, notot those fuckers in the Black cououncil like No they can eat shit. They can eat shit and die on hisest.agar you can eat shit But Jason'm like I get why he's unsure Yeah And that's fine to have a conversation Yeah to lock her in the room I know you're No, no one justestifying that, but like but like We're not going to do that today Aegon or Aemond, even at their ravingist for sure. It doesn't happen to men. What did you make of it happenens to on the merge. My God. What did you make of Misaria's reaction? the way, like kind of the look on her face, the way that she asked if Rhaenyerra Alicent could be trusted. You know, we've tracked over time Jace's jealousy in terms of Misaria This felt like a oh, this is something to watch in terms of Masaria seeeeing in a really undeniable way the hold that Allisent has overura And she's like I'm the only sexy burnette you're allowed to think about Rerire is like I'm going to write to Damon, tell him to return with hast. We're gonna fly to Kings' Landing in two days we get a little clock there Amen Meanwhile, confronts Allisent. She returns back to the Red Key cloak from the end of last season hood up and is summoned to R room by the king and she starts to piece it together. It's like, well, that's not where I left E like did Aegon roll himself into the throne room? No. Viserys' way up to the re.ab is going great No for Egon. U she finds Eemmond. King is wild. Yeah H calling himself King though Do air math with me he is next in line after Aegon I mean, yeah, there's no in the books there Aegon has another mle heir. Yeah. Yeah. hereere he does not right. Jahera so killed. Yeah, blood and she is Jahera. They can't prop up a female heir when that Rhenyra's claim our glm is misroogyny. So like so in the book, he's Lord Protector, R. Yeah. right. And they'vees. And so here he's claiming to be king, which is, you know, it's not just like a more audacious a in which it is but it's u Actually the air math is different here. There are not R Sunons in the way. If Aegon is definitely abdicated or is dead or whatever, I am king. That's right, which would not be the case with with, you know, and this is something that George R. Martin was like, Oh excuse me. He had some notes and some blogs. Where's Melor? He had some notes and some blogs, Yoks. Yeah, is that is a great distinction, a great call. And like this is for show Aamond, uh while he's in quite an emotional state and we'll talk about that more as we get to the later Allison scene, hes kind of wanted this the whole time, right? We think back to the infamous dumb little hat stretch of the penultimate episode of seeason one. a med Kristen frolicking about King's Landing, Kristen in his all What Sleep one who studies, who flies the biggest dragon, who knows how like I should be king. Right? So hot, have you seen my jawline? My hair hair iron Aestcaout Hways to be on a video podcast. Yeah burned eggon Roks's rest. You know what he did do that Pelena finds him in episode five of season two standing in the throne room looking up at the throne, right? Was it worth the price? We know he's wanted to sit there. When you actually saw him sitting there, a lonely figure in the shadows in the deep of the throne room as Allison walks in Which comp was more top of mind for me because we also get the black fire close up of his hand on the blade and I kind of like I'm propping myself up with this. That's Viseris imagy Holy shit the gall to sit on that chair. That's Damon, who has always been the mirror. Also thinking about Jamie Lannister Tell me. Yes. Jamie Linnister killed the mad King Aes and then sat his toush on the Iron throne. It went great. It went over great with Ned Star. Ned loved it. went great with Ned Star No feedback. I loved it U But Demon is most top of mind. And of course, like there's just forever the parallels between Aimon and Damon. you know, as we've mentioned before, you just move the D to the end of Demon's name and it's Aemond. like George is not being coy about this one, but they are forever like twwin Fames and like as much as Amond like hates Daemon wants to be Demon, you know, all this sort of stuff. So yes, when we met Demon in season one when Rhaenyra walks into the throne and he's just sitting on the throne and she's like, what the fuck and he's like, I got you a necklace and later we'll be married, you know? And A's like, I too could marry a relative if I tried. So Boy now I'm flashing back to the the olden house of our soundboard days and the gos be good that came from that very day. Wonderful stuff This is a tough moment for Alent. Yeah because she has found out complicated things at once A guy is not here Joanna, and he's supposed to be because she did agree to let Rhaenyra kill him K kind of tough when you're like, yeah, you can kill my son lost my sin. Oh no I why you can w on because he's not here. My most important meli bargaining chip ' really wass just like a candle Candle who still has this very distinct hair. Um And and is supposed to be gone along with Vagar, the most fearsome beast in the realm and guess what? they are here So that's also that's a problem Alisent brings into action in I think a way we both found remarkable and really satisfying. a character who her early arc, her early journey was like, you know, I always think of that moment with Auto when they were when he was really challenging like the, you know, was this not like you're, you know, what, you want to were we not? And she's like, how could I have known right? so much of her early life. and it's not that she was doing Legos with old men And that was an incredible Lg. Old Valaria, boy, beautiful. The. The way that she was used and deployed by auto, et cetera These moments of agency for Allicent are very rewarding and satisfying to watch There is for her too a little bit of a recklessness like impersonating the king in a letter. Oh yeah Orman. Oh like if you if she's doing that, you're fucked. I love it though. because like we've watched Alison pllot and skemi before Um Anskem and pim. But you know, she's done it through fashion. That's right. She's done it through wildly misinterpreting like dying men's words, you know, like all, you know, all these things. She's done, she's made decisive choices before. Yes. Now she's doing it in Long distanceahoots with Rhaenyra.. This is an agenda I can super get behind. because I am Team Rhaenya, of course. O course because I'm not a weirdo. U like Chris and u And for Allison to be working Yeah usingsing all the tools that Otto gave her and his really shitty job of being a parent Yeah Rereniera now. I mean, she's helping herself. Yes. but that's by proxy satisying too. By proroxy she's helping Raener and I'm like, ye L for Rhaenyra and that relationship are doing it for themselves All right yourselves. Literally five years I've beening to get him to say it correctly. So God that killed me yesterday You can listen to three chaotic hours of B pig pod if you want to know, but willill you be able to hear that part? I don't know becauseuse I hear we're allross talking. A lot of crossdalk, a lot of crossstalk. You know seven people on one pod. It's a joy. It's a blast. It's an honor. It is a gift. It is an honor She immediately gets to work here in this first conversation with Amond by using the truth. Yes to spin a lie, which is Brilliant, right? She's like, where were you You know, I love a bath. Yeah. You know, I love the lake. I was in the Kingswood, Amond. but the next thing she says is I found myself of little use here of late, which for Amond, is a very believable cover story because it is born out of H withering dismissal of her in season two episode six, rememind me of your place in the smallall Council. You serve the realm well at the time of need. That is ended. I release you of your seat such as it was. So the thing that he did to her to make her feel small, the mother who all he ever wanted was her affirmation and love Wonder if that'll come back into play in this episode She this is going to manipulate him because there his their actions that he took. This was just this was this was great. It's fantastic. And also like so The question of what Alison's plan was is really interesting because like she did only give up, she said you can kill Aegon. But like, Ridier also has to kill Aman, because he's over sure you know, in line Yeah and Darren right in theory because he' in line. R, you know, etcetera. So like in she's not just giving up Aegon. No, she is offering Aegon on a silver platter I will let you in and all like this sick bed seending Aemon off to Harren Hall which she are, you know, she flagged to Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra has sent right Maybe not her finest, but three dragon riders that way and Daemon's also over there. So like You know, She's when she's like into the jaws of death. Okay baby Give me a kiss and go die. go die. No No question. No one hundred percent. Absolutely. He is going to have to be compelled because he says here, like Egon' left me no choice I have to stay and defend the city, which is actually correct and the wise right read Al also correct what Allison says later that Rhaenyr is going to bring many dragons and things could go very poorly there. But it is not the right decision to leave the city. So leave kings landing the Red Keep dragonless and defenceseless Not the right Streamfires got it. D worry Fires. We do have another group of warriors entering the faulter and this is a thrill for us. The winter wolves are here. We love them. We get to meet them in the show. it couldn't be better Daemon is armored and covered in blood I love this because like he could have just stay up to Caxes and like roasted people, but he's like, I love blood. And did you I know you watch the House of Dragons Bill, Matt Smiths like You know I wanted this season was a lot more violence than they gave to me. By the way, his interview that he gave in that in that behind the scenes that they do. Yeah. He's wearing a fantastic wig that I cannot wait to see. It is like really resplendent and wavy and braided and I'm really excited for it This fight, which appears to be a combination of two battles if we're reading this correctly. Battle of the Red Fork. Yeah Plus fish feed sort of in there. Yeah. So you don't think we're going to get more. You think this is just how that we're kind of like getting the gist of it Yeah. And I'm not mad about this because we got twenty four minutes of gullet. That's right. And there are other riverland, you know, battles to be fought. So like, you know, this reminds us of like the Battle of Burning Mill or Tyion getting knocked out and missing the battle or whatever the case may be. It's like we just see the aftermath And I'm okay with that. Um But yeah, D Damid's out here covered in blood, but we should say if this is Fish feed M. bloody day of the war Do it feel weird to yada, yadda yada over the bloody day of the war? That is that why they think they're. I wonder if there's a possibility that there's more to come Calm but like I don't know. I think it is a difficult balance to strike. We're like The ability to show us all of these different showdowns on different parts of the map with different character sets is pretty tantalizing. and also you don't actually want every episode to be a badle episode. don't actually don't want it from a storytelling point of view and HBO doesn't want it because they want some dollars left in their coffers when the merger comes. So like ye. Yeahah, Bloody st the war. Black Ally is here vaguely in the background. We get to see her, but I'm really excited for that character. Do I need to retire my bloody ban agendas? Is it official Oscar Tully subbing in? I think so. Okay. I will say that's a bummer And I have some questions about that that we could talk about across the season. but a totally fan and I do like the way that he has really brought Damon to heal. Obviously he embrassed him in front of the group. ar' Joe veryarry. think David is a kink shame It's entirely possible in his the way that this sequence goes where he's like, Yes, Daddy. K's like Caraxes will make quick work of them. And also there will be no plague And then Oscars like they're like this is not our way The Riverman muster returns to the mud and demons I have a follow up question to you. Yeah Do you think Edmir and Hoster Tully would make up the idea that Burn are dead. Great question. I think Edir would be relieved to get him in the tra that he had. Yeah. Dumub him in the mud Thrill. Listen, customs changed. It's true. It's been a while. So we're having it. At a time, it was we turn them to the mud and then they're like, you know, we'd be sick. Let's fl some boats on fire. some fucking boats on fire with an arrow. You know what else is fucking sick? The Winter Wolfves? Johanna tell me all about it. There. Roddy the Ruin. Yeah. Roderick Dustin Lord of Barrowown. He's got a cit spot. he's got a really cool Cross acts, sigil Uh The winter wolves show up. This is a passage from, you know, and we've cool to die for the Dragon Queen. hereere is I just want to say again that you could not have been more right when you said, whereere is this in the early? Like this should have been like the opening in the first trip because when it when it comes in the episode, you're like, oh, iconic. Iiconic Iiconicon of character.e would have been like for the last three months. And it happens waiting so early. It's not it's like we had to like wait for it. It's in the first episode. So it's not like, you know, it's just sort of like that in the fucking trailer. We've cooned to die for the Dragon quQueen. Okay? F Fire and Blood. Yes. Two thousand savage Northmen flying Queen Rhaenyra's quartered banners at their head rode the Lord of Barrton Roderick, Dustin, a warrior so old and hoary. Men called him Roddie the Ruin. His host was made up of grizzled greybeardars and old maail and ragged skins, everyvery man, a season word, every man, a horse on a horse, not a horse to like a horse, you know. Thank you for clarifying. horse. Cet are not also horses Thank you. They call themselves the winter Wol. Some people are visual learners, so that was helpful. They call themselves the winter Wolf. I was trying to help the close capioning in case they wanted some help AI, don't say I never gave you anything. Okay. they call themselves the Winter Wolves Coom to die for the dragon quQueen, Lord Roderick announced at the twins when Lady Sabbatha Frey rode out to breet them. Okay good And thing about the winter Wolves is like this so the stark custom is ye. Sometimes the gray beers go out the intention to die? Correct becausecause there's too many mouths to feed and they're like, you know what? we're old We're gonna to go die. So when he says we've come to die for the dragon quQeen, it's not like maybe'll die,aybe we'll li.'re like,, we'll see it goes, but we hope to go back north We've come to die and of that thinking aboutve we've come to die the dragon qu I'm sorry I want to do with the accent every time, but I think you should. I think you should commit right now to doing it. Okay accent the whole. Comparing we've come to die for the Dragon quQueen to. too Kristian Cole's nihilism, which is like I mean, he's pretty much resigned to dying out here in the Riverlands as well, but with different o ye levels of enthusiasm, you know what I mean? And if I were to pick one to lead me, I'd say it's Tommy Flanagan as Rodie the Ruin. and dare I say in the House of Dragons Bilt. Yeah Listening to Matt Smith be like Pobby Faniganss here. Yeah. I f good love him. And then he was like this is my favorite character. this, you know, it's just like He loves Tommy F. We love Tommy Fln again, the sons of Anarchy, the gladiator. I don't know to pick your poison. pretty shy season of West World Whatever you care about, Tommy Flanagan elevates it, and I'm so excited he's here. I'm really hyped. We will hit a couple of things in the book spoiler section that we're looking forward to with this character. It's good to have him here I said we weren't going to have a lot of P positive things to say about Jace, but here's one more. Let's just remind everyone because it's been two years The winter wolves are here because of Jace He flirted with Craig and Stark. They had an energy between them. They did. There was a spark pulpable. Sarah Snope didn't make the show but Craig and Stark. Pulpable. Oh yeah. Jeez securered the veil. He secured the north and then he secured the crossing. He secured secured the twins so that the wolves an army that he got for for team Black could actually make it to the Riverlands The pack of Ice and Fire is why these characters are here. That is to Jace's credit. I think the fact that Jace has confused that with being ready to wage drag and warar on the front lines is obviously a tragic outcome at the time But he had a feel for diplomacy. At the time, we compared and Rhaenyra does not compare favorably. His tour of Westeros with Rhaenyas, if you remember Rhenyra on her betrothal tour, was just sort of like, hey, fuckos. Yeah, you're too ugly. I don't want to marry you You know, like that was essentially her energy as she went around and she a little, you're too old. I'. You're too old You know, I don't want to get married like,atever Like I support Rhenyra, but also diplomacy, never her strong suit And if G if like And to re Ye credit She sends Jace to do this. You know what I mean? So, if you can understand what tools you have in your toolkit And Jase could just know his place.ich is on the diplomacy trail and he's quite good at it. Yeah. He can flirt with Frase, he can flirt with Starks. He sure can. smooch his own betrothal before they go to die, but, you know, do you think Jace died a Virgin? or do you think they've been fucking? know? been on my mind He had more energy with Crigan than he did with Bela. Fela deserves better. Bla deserves a hot guy who also wants to at least smooch her before they go to die the Gullet. It's true. I think the fact that Jace was so accomplished in terms of alliance building obviously then exacerbates his frustration Why won't you pick me for more Fr Rayr's perspective, it's like I want tona keep you safe, I don't even die. That's why this is a very rich text between the two of them that leads to a just incredibly tragic place Um spe of tragic. Kristen Gwayne Philosophy, one hundred one It's just wonderful to watch these two. Every scene is perfect. I just still can't believe this is the outcome. Yeah This is a book character who obviously We, um spent a lot of time like the writing and to watch I journey in him to watch the journey that Kristen has been on Are broody boys still in the woods And a lot of people, you know, are talicent pretended to camp. Gwaynee and Kristin are camping, Olf' like fuck camping. I would rather not. I would rather not. Thank you very much When you saw Kristen Cole painting his shield and I know you have a lot of really brilliant things to say about this. Whatere you thinking about ten cell two tall Not too tall For me for kissing. Yeah, for kissing. A lot jobs Um, we have to ask, Who do we have to ask Dor? Doror M. George come on my God. We know you ask can even a suckking Dick Oh God. u you know what I actually' I wasn't now I wish I hadd been thinking about Tenil T tall. I was actually thinking about Survivor and I was it gave me real Going back to camp and painting like the tribe flag after you didn't win immunity and you needed to. Like let me lean into some arts and crafts projects because everything is falling apart around me. It gave me that kind of energy. But you know, anytime we can bring up something puppet adjacent, I think we should And anytime you can bring up Svor, I think you should One of our listeners did ask like in terms of the rope that takes Vermmax down. Yeah They're like Could Vermmax not have turned He tried and breathed fire on to the thing. fire making a challenge. Fire making challenedop He tried to bite it. Yeah. and it was like too Breathe a little fire, fire making challenge, snap that twine. You know what? That's one of those things that I almost wish I hadn't heard because it just all Bal. Once you know that? it's like Cool, he is a dragon. That is that's a quick Strong flame that would have you don't even need to worry about the husk and the flint and the h. in the stiff wind. I'd say it's feedback to share, but they're dead So it's not gonna to do him any good now All right, what do you want to say about Kristen's pay by numbers Artsencraft girly era? loved it there. Yeah. So Christian is painting on his shield his family crest, the crest, the sigil of House Cal. We saw this at the very beginning of the show in the we thought iconic, Gods, he's Garnished. stretch of thearnish. Yeah, simimpler times. Alice's back in her blues Back in her blue dresses. Yeah God, he's Donish. What do you like more in the show? Wigwatch or like H watchatch, not S ha L the heue of the gard. Not a horse, but a horse literally horses than just riding them G of a moment I think you know the wigs. It is wigs. Yeah. It's gott be wigs. I tracking Allison's fashion choices has been fun. It has been. You knows who's really fun this episode. Tell me more H farers resplendent likeike, all of the religious iconography that's in that armor Vy ex In general great armor in this episode, but that was a very a very riches. Bold John has some cool armor. Yeah. Tyand has some good armor. It's gonna good not work out Sperva What that armor che Th got his armor off Yeah the quickness. Yep. ye. ye. Corlus's armor iss really great too. I like the incorporation of the hand of the Qeen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good arrmor's great. Yeah. But I think if you're going to be a sailor and have armor, I think quick release is important. I don't think Thyailand got that memo. My whole plan is to not ind up in the drink pastful, tough one The sigil painting Kristen has been like obsessed with and defined by, I would say the stock that he puts in, the symbol of the station he rose to. Ro. The white cloak of the Kingsguard. We can think of harrowing and great fight that he and Rhaenyra had midway through season one. he was like cinema Orange? Orange. She was like like the crow out the throne Orangees over the throne No Listen, We know you're hot, but come on.' like, I can have a dornishment a day when I s on the throne mention an orange, what are you talking Jing you dumb fuck Oh man Incredible. Oh, what a memory. What a moment. When he got all up the ass of one of the cargo twins, being like, there's mud on your clothes It' wayle, right. So He said the white cloak is a symbol of our pury. That was what he said to an A I want to c I have made the decision to let that information go my They're dead. I'd say it's a good note to give, but they're dead. So you know, they were on my mind this sepe. Aan art. canan I tell you why? It's not relevant to what we're talking about here. There is a canonically established second door in Raenyrra's bedroom No I know We got some emails about this No one even tried to open it Now it was locked during Cargoles. so maybe it stays locked. And at that point I would say Why is it there? justust make it a wall? When is the door not a door when? it? What is the wall? should Rerra have like summoned a cyrax and jumped out a window? Yes or to like burn omeone that too. I just went to escape. but you' always thinking about murder It brings out something dark in you. Lesen. He she does have a second door. Do you think she battered and splintered her hands on both doors or just the one I hope both, because if we didn't even try, if we didn't even try the back door, that would be frustrating and puzzling. Yeah. Kristin has also tried to worked hard to distance himself from that more humble beginning, right? And it's something that in moments of another character trying to remind him of his relative standing and station, it has come up, right? So Gway, when he showed up in King's landing and had been on the march finally arrives and he's like, you replaced my dad as hand of the King. What the fuck? One of the things he said to him is, and by a man from such modest beginnings, what a giddy ascent the gods have bestowed on you They have their whole bond and their beautiful romance End of season two, it's still coming up Steward son from Dorne the quQueen of theeven kingdoms Like this is a wound and a source of insecurity for Kristen. So for him in this place of shattered faith after Roke's R, being reminded that men are nothing in the face of dragons and Dragonwar and Dragonfire, to lean into the reminder of the humble man is such a deliberate and intentional character beat that I thought told us so much So quickly It made me think of in that season two finale conversation and scene when Christin was like, I have no philosophy. and he holds a sword, right? he says, or rather my philosophy was this, was past tense to protect the righteous and dispense justice on the rest, but now you saw what I saw The dragons dance and men are like dust under their feet and all our fine thoughts, all our endeavors are as nothing. And then that's when he's like to die kind of a relief, don't you think? I was th it's funnyan. So I was thinking about because we're in this N love that love you love when you apply your brilliant mind. I love you. I love you. I was thinking in this sort of like nihilistic section of the plot that we found ourselves in. I was thinking about get as a playwright and a nihilist and there's this gross Becket quote. I always love this backcket quote he says, No, I regret nothing. All I regret is having been born. Dying is such a long, tiresome business I always found. You know, And it's just sort of like, that's so Kristine Cole right now. Yes. Dying is such a long, tiresome business I always found. Oh, someone's doing a rape Hang them, right sureure. Yeah. Do you wish Gwen had been like, stop raping Alla dunk? Yeah, I do. Dop I do. I wish I had done that and I wish I had not have done so Any knight of the Seven Kingdoms connection we can make is welcome at all times. Yeah Oh God. Yeah, Kristin is not really vibing with going's like the man the men Nita. They need a speech, right? They need a reminder, they need a lesson that way peace Chris is like we are Wayne's like H have you met Orman Hower. I should be, you know, like way one to like, you know Sleep it ends. That's right He's a fancy man. Yes. And Orman with his his commommander, as you and I both independly found out is the name of the thing that never you know, just the the orderly The orderly way which we find Aormman Highowerers camp, every tent is like, you know perfect and in parallel with each other. And it's just like, that's how the Hightowers travel And Gwayne's like, I'm sleeping in the mud with these rapist fucks. Are you kidding me? And Kristen, should we do something? Like we are knights soldiers of honor. and Krist like they're their lord commander.'s like I got bad news for you. We're Beast actually. I just it's incredible because Kristin, he was never a fancy lad of House Hightower He was never rich, but like, he did say every woman is the image of the mother. Sure. Why did he? He sure did with an incredible cadence in the speech when he delivered that line. Wonderful Origanentating your entire identity and worldview around being a symbol and champion of the house that you think represents order and righteousness, divine righteousness, right or you so man. Kristin. And and like the white Coak or back in the High toowers. becoming Allicent's champion. The way l the ran out to Roks was because he was like spurred by Rhaenyra. Yeah. There was like shitty origin you even exist inside like the of his own self deceptionmore, you know? it's I just like an incredible place to find him. really is. All right, Joe. Yeah. other people at camping too. Oh, who's that And sea smoke. Yeah. Olf and silver wing. Yeah. H and Vermithor. They're not at the gullet. No. Wh is that? whereere are they? Oh my gosh, They're on the banks of the gos eye. That's right. They're the lake right by Harrenhall. They're kind of like tucked around a corner, I guess so that Aaman could not see them approach. rightight. U cllose enough to attack Seemingly Far enough away to hide even though Alice knows exactly where Alice found them because Alice Rules. Yeah. This was a really great section, loved. a really great spotlight for my guy Tom Bennett who I absolutely have like loved from the start, hearing Olf's backstory about, you know, when he talks about like he wish to die Mordays a kn never knew his mother and this priest from Essos who abused him. And we talked about this on talkks this and they made us think about Varis. Yes. wereere you thin about Melisandrera and Gendrian and the Dick leeches? I'm always thinking about Gendria and the Dick leeches. King's bllood indeed. Yes. King's Blood indeed. I loved this beat from Olf because it was like surprising to get this different. We know, we think of it as being so boisterous and showy. Yeah, comic relief. Yeah What a different energy. Yeah you were so excited As soon as allf, I mean, we've been interested in the character jo, sorry, but because of the Yeah, Tom Bennett I love Tom Ben Yeah. So this was really fun to see different be. What it really felt like to me is that he shows up in season two and he's like funny and he's a little bit like menacing at the banquet at the end of season two. But I feel like they really saw what he could do and they wrote even more for him another note for him to explore. So I thought that was really good and to have him be like, Sh we get out of here? Right And Adam be the very loyal like we should stay quite And then Hugh sort of just, you know, the swing vote in the middle would think of that. Hugh has a little bit of a journey. I love like Adam, not just saying this is what The quQueen told us to do but like, what are you going? you're going to go back and tellell her you' craving, L you're afraid f is like completely unapologetic about it, which is in general his vibe. you know, more of those little birds, right? Like the ambition, thats striving nature very on front treat for him. He's like I I want what I want R When he's like when Alice I mean he's trying to take a shit interterrupted by a goat by a goat It doesn't just spend time as a bar now I feel like she might be a goat It could be. G like wrote all caps all time go in that she could be the goat, that it could be her familiar, something like that. you know, but like when we see the goat, Alice is usually not far behind. A real like sort of black Philip, the Vivavavich like sort of energy here. I'm into that. I think that I think that would be fun. I like, you know, the continuing undeniable aspect of Alice's magic and how it's manifesting and the continued mystery, including like the question of What is her motivation exactly for appearing to them and saying, you know you're missing the battle, right? rightight Now they don't make it back in time. Again in an adaptive change because they are all at the battle of the Gallet in Fire Blood. So that's different. We've made the Gallet more of a family affair. What do you make of Alice showing up to ide them I like fashion. What is the motivation here? I like what you said on Talk of Thrones when you're talking about sort of Alice's concern for What would happen to the people around Harrenhall or what would happen? I like this idea of her being like the Lorax. She speaks for the trees, you know what I mean? Like she doesn't if If Aemond shows up on Vhagar and these three Dragon Riders fight Vhaagares they're going tort all the land around Harrenhall And Alice cares about maybe the people there, but certainly about the werewood trees that are around there. You got to get the ingredients for the brain paste somewere someomewhere. Yeah.pss aren't going to come on the ro. So I think she's just like get these dragons out of here, you know I like that. I think that the u The fact that Hugh is kind of like a opens in a place of all right, this is what we're supposed to do builds toward But for how long I do have feedback for them, which is like it's only been a couple days don't like to camp Not into camping. No, it's beautiful there. So It's really just Alison who likes to camp near as many bathtubs as you can find. she loves a body of water. She would really love it here Ohf, you know, that conversation isie, if not the biggest bathtub. It is a fucking gigantic bathtub.. That is like there's room for Jamie, there's room for Brianne. Yeah, there's room for no, there's room for Owen. There's room for I'm reading everlasting folks. There's room for everyone so good. It's great slate I don't get a castle. Yeah, you know, I'm gonna become a knight. I can't I can't live in a title. I can't drink in a title. H It attempt him with the women, right the promise of women, likeike why? have more women with a castle would We have removed them from the gullet to center the gollet around the characters we centered around. We've also put them in this this location to have these conversations. For a reason, we're seeing something about all of them, right? So Adam is steadfast, right Of is lake I Anyway the wind blows need to get back to a privy that is Yeah then he woulded to me. Indecided. He's an indepeent voter. you's open. Yeah. He's open Also we saw a green man for the second time. We did. This was a big part of the reason that we thought this might be the isle of faces because the Green Men are deeply associated with the cate of that place. However, we did see a green man on the mainland Damon's all one Don that by way flip clopped over. it's got little horns. It's like a little like sedar kind of figure Clinton Liberty, the act who plays Adam like posted selfies with the guy in the great man makeup. It was really cute. Wonderful He's like my gu He's a great Instagram follow. Oh Clinton Clinton Lberty. haaving the time of his lifeanting on the show. Big gnd. Wonderful Awesome Yeah. Write in that letter Ver auto of her. He was always writing letters, very Tywin of her And Helena observes that her mother seems frightened and then she connects this to becauseuse Allison is like Did you know You of the prophetic dreams, did you know that E was she gonna to be here She doesn't believe in Helenaas' prophecies, right? Just like bug girl. Yeah. sweet littleice sweet little bgg bug girl. yeah. Alsent Helena says after observing that Alison seems frightened that Emond is frightened too. Yeah. Condal just c signed this is a sanctions of this read on the inside the episode. It was like cashag, Helena was right. Helena was right Amond is fucking scared. Scared. thinkinks that these dragons if Rreera brought dragons to King's Landing that he would die. That's what Congal said on the inside of the app What did you what do you make of that? Like how do you think of Amond in terms of fear? Do you think of Aymond as a likeike is fear is Aymond's relationship to fear an evolution for you? Is it always present? Is think m Whver that little boy. Yeah. And this has all been set deck, you know, like all of this is a mas mask and a costume you know, the flat iron hair and the eye patch and the sapphire and like all of it is just sort of like him dressing himself up like Damon, you know, to just posture around and just be like I am shit, actually no, I'm snaked and curled up in the fetal position at the local brarothel. That's where I am mentally all the time That seem was on my mind too as really unblematic of the way that the fear can be worn like a mask because we do see the real truth of it, notot only in the way he's curled up in that fetal position, which is so vulnerable and raw and bare and also like you are a tiny boy cuddling up to the bomb you want to fuck. But then the way he turns that into I'm gonna strut naked. You're here, you're making fun of me, you're mocking me, Egon. I'm going to show you I'm not afraid. One of the things we've loved tracking over the seasons is the fact that Aemon doesn't wear armor But one of the things that you pointed out trailers for this season is that he's suddenly wearing armor. So I love that idea that suddenly he's like Okay, I told myself I wasn't afraid, but I can't really tell myself that anymore. I need to cloak myself in more protection. The way that at the end of season two, he begged Helena to fly with him and she didn't. the glint of tears in his eyes as she as he realized how old like he was. You're gonna die at the god's eye. I mean, that was tough Tough to hear And you know, he and I was like, maybe I don't want to go to Maybeall. He's like I got to stay here to defend the castle. I let me no jooy. Why would I go to Pernhall? They let me no join right by the Godae. Why would I do that? Yeah, and Helena, you know He believes and like because Melena is like, I know you did a Roks's rest by the way. Right, Right. And he's like, what the fuck, But also I mean, Dragon Dreams, that all that does is validate Amond's idea of Targaryen supremac. Yeah. I think back to Sylvie telling him in that early season two scene in episode two, like When he said to her They used to tease me, you know? And which' just sad It's sad, but is he responding the right way? No, But it was sad. And the way the warning that she issued about the people who really get hurt when princes misbehavave, you know? And then like of course, all of it with, you know, onene of the prompt that Chris had for us on talk of Thrones was like these bad sons and how Alice and Rhaenyra are both confront reckoning with the way that their plans have been undone by like and we love that. Chris was like Kid suck. G. G great stuff. The We love that that Renise note from the Torney at the very beginning of the show. You knows iner Balls full of seed and Oh ye, Yeah ye ye like. they can't wait to get out and fight, but then they're also afraid of dying. it's a very rich. What's a quote bit like men would sooner see the rum burn than put a woman on the iron throne. On the iron throne. Yeah to young Raenerra. Yeah. I mean, also that was also true. Berice goodood stuff. miss her. miss her Um Allison sends Siroreinirect direction tond his fastest writer to deliver this letter. foolded immaculately, by the way. Oh yeah. beautiful technique with a little tab to put the wax over. Loved that. And by the wrer, he's like My dirtiest smelliest writer. You got it fast because he did not stop to bathe or possibly did not stop to find to dig a hole in ground to shed him to shed himself. Mbe. Maybe, and it's gonna go over fine with Ormand. Before we meet Ormand, we spent some time with Corlace and Alan in the capaptain's cabin on the renamed No longer sea stake now, the Qeen who never was And Coros just wants to share a drink with his son. Some dragon water goes down smooth from meough he's like burned through a bunch of other airs. He's like, Hey, I'm a man and then even went to Balam was like You? She she's like firing blood. She's like, no, sorry. So he's like, you need salt and sea You your saliday I've worked my way all the way down the list Lenor's dead. Laina's dead, you know, like It's stough. It's The airs are dropping like flies. This was another bit of hubris here I thought from Corless when he called Rhaenyra's advantage absolute Like the sewing was massive, obviously, getting the Rivermen on their side, massive, this Allisent pledge, which obviously Corortlus is not in the room for, but Word has reached him of the intention based on that, big They don't know about the hriarchy. they're going to learn in thirty seconds, but they don't know yet Um, Oange any stock in the fifteen thousand troop high Tower arrmy for that dragon. That's a giant fuck. I thought the overhead shot of the camp was super effective to remind us how big that army is. And like there' like no what else could go wrong consideration? I. I mean, I think it's interesting because the show sometimes likes to hide from numbers Yeah, we read that we read that quote about the Winter Wolves and it's like, obviously that's not how many Winter Wolves are in this story as many are in the book. You know what I mean? It's like, obviously they've they're like, We cast this many guys and put them in firsturs and that's how many starks are here, right But they like underline fifteen thousand High Tower men. That's how many are on the march with the whole ass Dragon and a dragon rider. Behind a guy who's about to say one king is as good as another. Tough. Feels important feels important.. How moved are you by Corless' attempts to reconcile with Alen? This is kind of an evolution in tone, I would say in the approach zero percent. Thank you so much for how old are you Too little too late. I would say. I think we're in a similar spot with this wherere like I love Adam I thought it was awesome to watch Alan kick ass in in the battle in the Gullet. I thought that he Moments of admiration for his father very organic and authentic. L like father look at you Like, Yeahah,'re willing to put yourself at risk. You're willing to go draw the flagship out and then yeah, just you like it's reflexive, father when he doesn't think he might be too late. I was ping for a daddy, is that what you would say? Pining for a daddy He didn't even know Right Pattinson,'s incredible. I can't wait for the Odyssey. I really like Corless as the character and I think Coroless is relations the Coroless' relationship to family legacy, like what an air represents, what a real emotional connection represents has always been kind of interesting across the sties. It's definitely like One of the biggest parts of his personality that they have hammered home for us. For sure. I mean, in part to set up something like the fact that LoHar is right when she says, he's going to be completely undone when he sees high tide burning. And like he is My treasures the monument to his achievement stopped in his tracks. it did, you know? That was interesting to watch. They're interrupted by the sounds of horns because the triarchy is here and to the gullet on the today. T the gllet on the today. We had to wait two years but here it is. We love that we got just another, is it the Lannisters? Is it the Grey Joys? The Red Kraacken is always welcome here on this podcast The Red Kraken is a Greyjoy who loves to pillage All great boys love to pillage. They do. They can't fucking help themselves. God. It's not always triarchy. Always be pillaging That's what the great chice. Isn' that their houseword? Those are the housewords. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. ye. We do not sew.ull we buill it. This dead may never die Always be phing it is when you're falling off the rope bridge between the spires of your castle because your bology When it's time for a King's Mot. onene of the things you have to stress in your pitch Yeah to the assembled Always be pillaging. I am the storm brother, the first and the last. And always be pillaging play eyeliner and always be fillishing. You know who got that notose? Lohar The wartimeyeliner. So smoky eye. Yeah. How do you keep that on in a sea battle? Oh water setting spray I see. Yeah, I see. Yeah. You have so much to teach me U Speaking of low R. Tyand approaches in full kit as she observes and Lohar mocks him. He has no idea, right? He's like, let me tell you about these inlets and the path that we should take and Lohar says Canny strategy, I can see why your king made you Lord of the ships. and he's like, thanks What color apple is low heating there? It doesn't matter It's not important It's a red apple. It doesn't matter. it's not important. and here's the thing I say about Lar. Fresh off the back of getting Anne Hathaway's catwoman on your team, you can't accept the L U takeake a dub and take an n Low hars on your team There are a lot of different red apples. You know, and I don't like them all. I don't like them all. You have to accept honey crris for a pink lady or sugary. I don't think so It's not team it's not teeam honey Chris, Sugarbee, or whatever the fuck you just said, honey Chrisp, whatever. It's honey Chris, whatever. frrankly, how darary you. T teeam Rad Ale, you take all the Rd appppleers. All right, fine. Lohart' is not gonna be on the team for long, so so it's okay S sinces the half jaw, half jaw sick. Yeah I mean, we thought half handand was good. I thought Clefsaw was good You have a quest s said Always be pillaging. Always be pillaging, man. God. So this is the inevitable breach of trust with the triarchy that Every single character said would come to pass Amond, as we talked about at the time, this was Amond basically got Atto's book plot. Let's go at the tririarchy, right Now if you're like, this's a track here you don't remember A lot of the season two finale was spent with Thailand and Lohart and frankly still an astonishing amount of screen chance screen time I't that happened, but it did. And then, of course, our guy the crab feeder, back at the stepstones back in the day, the stepstones the Triarchy, this tension with Corless that lower here is like, this is why I came. Yeah, right to get the guy who made so hard for my mates. If you see someone in like really cool fun fabrics Probably a hriarchy. Yeah, theyllve a pattern. They do. They do. Yeah. You're right Um Sffron, Burgundies, you know they mud wrestle at their parties. We learned that. Pyent Bon come and pregnate my wives Do you think he did? I think he did I've then he enjoyed some good times. I think he gave it the old Lannister try The old casleually rock track Uh he told Amond when he wanted to do this, that they were little more than pirates. So he can't be surprised that this is happening. He's like, you said, but the pledge the pledge was No the consequences of my own actions. Allisant was like the tririarchy may play it accepting terms, but they're not to be trusted. Your father knew this. and Kristen said Are we to invite these alien raiders racist into our waters so close to King's Landing. No one thought this was a good idea and sure enough is I mean, They're still fighting the battle They're taking out some of their l fleet. They're still doing what they said they would do So like Is the motivations on the and are the tactics like are the motivations self serving? Are the tactics self serving Yes, but they're not like it's not like they showed up and then just like turned around and didn't do their job True justustice for the track. You know what? It's a great point Part of one out the heir to Rhaenyra's throne some help from inside the house. But yeah, I mean, it's true. partart of wanting to take down Corlus is diminishing the Valarian fleet, which obviously benefits T teeam Green and seriously seriously hurts Black. Is a triarchy going like be like a helpful ally actor The other way? No They don't know Orm it, it's time We pan Tesaran, and we see Tesaran in the foreground here beaiful. We got a glimse to Sarian flying very briefly at the end of season two. T Serarian here in front of our screens in full No writer Darren is not on Taran here, Tesarian is in a pen. And I think that this feels like the show just committing fully to the bit at this point. It' like we're gonna to really show you Tarian, but we're not going to show you Darren on the back. We know that you're waiting. Let's have some fun with. I also think Orman Hightower in his like Pomet are sniffing, all of the tents are align kind of way. We keep our dragons in a little pen. Well're bad. When we're on the No I know it's bad. Yeah You should not. pend in a dragon, there are very many cautionary tales about keeping dragons in confined spaces. but I just love the idea, I don't love it, but I love the idea that like as he's traveling, they have to like Takeedown put up, we have to like rebuild this pen at every st Given his Oh, this messenger smells like shit, me let me hit my my little perfume bable. What do you think? Does he think like Dragon Flame? Does that smell good? Smells like a barbecue You know? greatreat question, but probably like all H toowers, he's like Dragons. Yeah useful weapons, but fld babies, you know? somethingomething like that. It's a great great like royalty posh accent. I love it. It did make me think the pen, it made me think of Daniel lot. Obviously, this is a stretch house of the Dragon of the Story where Dragon riders are routinely keeping their dragons and sometimes they're in the drag Mont in. a natural habitat, but sometimes they're in a dragon pit, right? And like a place that they should not be. It really I think makes us think of Danni though chaining two of her dragons in the catacombs of Marine. Guess what? That was fine. It was not fine, folks. And then that moment when Danni is like thinking back on her own history, but not really heeding it and saying to John, they filled people with wonder and awe and we lock in here, they wasted away, they grew small and we grew small as well. You should not be keeping dragons in a It's tough tal talk about theragon h. wasn at great We meet three new characters in this scene. We meet Ormand Hight Tower Bull John Roxton and Aoy. Mystory young man. Aoy. talkalk about all of them. Hormond We already talked about just how like iconic this is. So he's the we should say he is the head of house H toown He's not like Beneath Oto, the mysteriously missing Otto on the hierarchy here. He's the head of the house because the head of the house died off screen and now he is head of house. He is Otto's nephew. He took Darren to Ward He doesn't like smelly stuff. He doesn't care if anyone knows it or if he's gonna to offend them by making it clear that they smell like shit. And this was so good. we have to see it Bing arge and welcome King A King is he now Incredible. Okay. so Janna, tell me like your reaction to all of this Just the kind of like eccentricity that we glimpse right away, right? Incredible, very memorable. But one king is as good as another.oy. Also, when he's reading the scroll, we glimpse indated on there. So he's kind of like leaning into a misunderstanding. Oh, they think Agon's dead. Sure why not, right? That's not actually what role says. So what did you make of his response there for a character we just met, we spent thirty seconds with What does it tell us The high I mean, here's what I think. I think Orman thinks that if he goes T all then, and crushes Rhaenyra and all of that sort of stuff Yeah I mean, he's head of house high ters, andbe he doesn't want the job But like, don't the High Towers always want the job though? Hand of the King I mean they don't want they wantt control their own power. they just like this is what Otto wanted this is what House High Towers wanted is to like to be de facto kings. right? So it really doesn't matter which Targaryen buttts sits on the throne, right? Um I think he wouldn't mind if the one he took to Ward sat on the throne. You know what I mean? So he's like, Aemon, Aegon The one that I have under my thumb entirely, right as good as any other. I'll rule them all U Naturally, it made me think of my single favorite moment in the entire show. which was Hoard Highower Wh he as a child and He wanted to advance the Hobert wanted to advance the High Tower agenda Ao wanted to advance the highigh Tower agenda. Alison eventually wanted to advance the high Tower agenda and then had some regrets about it. Gwayne wanted a nice off bed to sleep in wantanted to be at the end. When Alison emerges at the wedding in one of our actual favorite moments of the show in the green the green dress, light the Beacon, right? Oh yeah. Like Team High Tower behaves in a cirertain So this folk great. They're like we got the money, we want some power When u and listen This is true by the end of the episode. Yes Ryan Condal was going around likening Orman Hightower to Tywin Lannister because he was like he's the richest guy in the land just like Tyb and Lannister was. Yeah Corlus would have something to say about that except just like a hit, his house just burnnt out. so maybe not. Yeah. But Corlus Larian is quite wealthy. But Orban Hide Tower in is shiny, shiny. religion coded armor uh is here u I really liked this. Our listener Hnah Rote in likening this introduction of Ormin to the introduction of Tywin Lannister, butchering the deer in season one, you know, so like when we meet Tywin it's a very memorable attroduction. was is a very memorable introduction W and to me, yes, I loved it. I mean, I think Tyw when nothing touches Tyw when, that's like, God's year, but like but like this was incredible If you carried commommander Yeah, which is a little decorative ball of incense that you carry around with you. What's what's the scent that you would go for? What essential oil are you putting in your diffuser Great question. So I think I would want like a bunch that I could choose.. But the prompt is if you could pick one to suit my mood. Sure. But if you could pick one Well, I think it would have to be something that I found pleasant, but also mask smells really effectively. Yeah. So like something that you know, subtle and soothing and calming, like like a chamomile is not gonna cut it here. We need aangang It's not gonna to do it. What about like a clove? you know, a nutmeg, cinnamon, kind of like something that So thenone it would would make me hungry. Yeah. want a cookie. I was like I was like a the A kid still like this If you had like a, you know, Christmas cookie candle or something, or like warm vanilla sugar body wash and' be like, I want to eat that. I wouldn't. But it would smell delicious and I'd want to. So I don't know but I'd be more disciplined in my old age. I'm not sure. What would you pick? Would you pick something like piny? I would say eucalyptus or teherree oil that like really sharp Northern California kid. Yeah. yeah. But that like, yeah, that sharp smell would really like cut through the manure scent that he's trying to mitigate here. Eucalyptus is really nice, Very like kind of spa energy. I like a lavender. lavender would be nice. Not sure it's strong enough for this. Yeah. but not strong enough. I think you need something that's gonna like make your nose hairs kind of like curl up. What about citrus You know, L a nice like a man a Mer Lemon You're not a fan now. tellell me why. I don't like Myer lemons. And not only do I not like Myer lemons, but I like lemons so much that like when it's accidentally a Myer lemon, it's tough for me Unbelievable. And we don't need to know this about Let's now malicious I think it would be difficult to be a battle if smells bothered you this much. because one of the things that we know to be true is They never tell you how they shed themselves. Does he ever leave the Htowerer? It's a great question. Dean or listener Dean said I took it that he recognized his sister's handwriting no matter what it said. She signed it as King Aemon, but like what do you think Does he know it's from Allicent and they're in Cahoot? So they're cousins, right I don't know that they're corresponding enough that like because she didn't even know what how Darren was. I don't know that she's like writing a ton of letters back to Old toown. That's my thing. The fact that she had to ask Gawen What's my own kid like? Like she and Ormand are not in taught. I don't think he knows her handwriting. I don't so either He does know quite a bit about Bld John Roxton, Brazo from Andor here, thrilling. Wonderful. So they both we have two new Valerian steel swords in the show. They both carry them Ormand carries vigilance, the Valriian St stillel sort of House Highower John Roxon carries Oran Maker Oran Maker inccredible neighbors or Vigilance. hisis armor was cool too. Very cool. the rings. I feel like um I feel like if I'm Mormon High Tower, I'm renaming my sword. if I'm hanging out with Bol John Rocks, and he's like, haveave you seen my sword orphan Maker? And he's like, haveave you seen my sword Vigilant? Vigilant I mean, I would react that way vigilantance feels so high toower coded. It's like, ooh, we're from oldtown in the H Tower in the proximity of the faith. important and rich and handsome and well groomed and always smell good M Js And we're gingers S of daking up. There's a young man In lovely kind of plush, like green velvet livery of some sort The first glimpse we get is Ormond and this young man, they're standing in profile like in their tent very close to each other, you know, in conversation Um, and then this this this kid over refers to a sire So, which is an insane thing to say. Crazy We have a few possibilities. You called Kings's sire Normond ask you her to vampires, sire Kings in vampire. What Dude. Do you think we always talk about the adaptive liberties because fire Daywalker Unreliable Nator you could go a number of directions. Maybe that's one of the reveals that's still to come Morman vampire. It could happen The vampire Ormand My name is Arun and I'm an adict Here are some possibilities for who this this kid could be. He could be one of Orman's actual children because Orman does have kids. S. He's got Multiple songs are in the story. This could be one of them. This could be his squire. fifteen thousand strong preparing for battle. He does send him to do a task's like make sure this guy has a tent and for fuck's sake, make sure he gets a bath. R was like, shit. He could be his wd They do not tell us who the character is I agree. They don't tell us who that character is He has red hair. And he's wearing a lot of grade I dragon. We did. And that dragon did not have a rider with him. Where could that character be? It's incest o' cllock. TikTok Warp in me aa Chris just simply could not stop talking about Emmond and Alice kissing. It was somethinghing that really reached him and moved him. and We'll explore why Wils to appeal statement, she's like I got to get this gety of Her inhle. I made a promise I gott to figure this out She tells him a thing that We know she does not believe, right? in midway through season two, she said to Kristen, you know what he is, what he has somehow become. Like it's undeniable how Allison sees Amid. That's not a question. She's got to gaslight him love language words of affirmation, specifically from my mom, I want to fuck. Yeah, Mommy, be clear The mom he wants to f. I was pretending to be Aimed for a second just to get that on the. It' a horse, not a horse, you know? Well, who, well since youve come a long way from taking down dragon orgies to smooching your own son journey for Allisent on the Fall from Gace. My God, like lecturing a young Rhaenyra for the queer customs after the haul you were trying to copulate with your uncle in the bowels of a pleasure den business, right? ended up marrying two of her kids to each other. Right? She didn't love it. And now her Owens son is kissing her right on the mouth. And he's like I'm gonna have a banquet in your honor with a decapitated head of m. And then I'm gonna jerk off 'cause I wanna fuck you and you're my mom happen in the scene. This was some of the best acting on the show to date. Olivia Cook's facial expressions here were just honestly astonishing. I don't know. Is this a meme yet? If it's not, it should be. I really hope this becomes a big meme when he pulled away like. It was just incredible. Let's make it a meme if it isn't yet Can we commit to that? No have that power. You know you do I mean, I don I don't want to der it. Makeaking a me to your ading your adoring fans Mory H Mallory Hk spoken. You ask. Get rid of Matthew Re sliding off a chair in Widows Bay. I love that. I love that. Keep the Widows Bay memes coming, That show fucking rules Um she touts, you know she says, I youre araid I'm afraid. And's fuck out, I'm not afraid. So that part didn't work The Hey, u Harrenhall You could be safe there. That did kind of work, which just doesn't make sense. This we talked about on talk the third, Aman has a mural in his room. parent home melting Belerian and Eggon the country burning. Harel. So that was bizarre, I thought. But The you should have been king Mommy telling you, the mommy who used to say to you when you were a kid like your obsession with these beast goes beyond understanding. who was always like, why are you this way? This is all he's wanted and it's part of why he should have beens up next to Sylvie. You've got better hair you speak the lang. So I like Aegon's waves The waves Lovely. Yeahah, I do. Beautiful. You would have him shave them, but that's okay. Now I would. I mean, at this point, he's trying to not be immediately identified as a Targaryen, so yeah, now I would. Joina Aman's thoughts on incest, different from Allison's. Yeah, he's fairly pro. Loves it. Yeah. W wishes that he had gotten toarry Helena. Yeah jealous of aon forget to marry your sister that I could marry my sister. W will love too. Yeah Um And he's got a bit of a mommmy Slvie Oer one The mother's milk. Definitely in the image of Allicentth the Love he. You know why the show is doing this and I' pretty into it. Me too. We'll talk about that more later today we watch the kiss just for the sheer pleasure of it. shall host a feast there in your honor Karens Hore Ps my uncle's head looks down from a spite. Unbelievable Olivia could me. I loved it. Okaykay, can I just tell you behind these Yeah. I got here early today and I was preparing for the pod and I was sitting here preparing for the pod and they just like kept playing clips over and over again. Did it feel right? Did it feel good? I just kept hearing like The smacking of the kiss sound, it was pretty tough for. You were like once again, not for the first time this week reflecting on how every show you're covering involves insist. And then it would circle back around Tar dragons E dragonsre an appropriate response I think to what we just saw. Even for Thrones parent kid incest is rare, though not for Aemon's mirror character, Damon who Hlluc hallucinogenic wewood paced wewood tree long dreamt about to crawl back inside the wom in a certain way with his tongue. That was the way he wanted to crawl back inside the wor, correct. of his mother Alison's u seex life right now I don't know You know, when Rhaenyra was out for her a night on the town The vision we got of Alicent was her just like, and it was sad fllat on her back Crone under Viserys pumping away geping magical leprosy ss vering his fish shroot. Sere sword pumps. Sarahan sword pumps. And in the nets There's the larus foot stuff, the aforementioned larus foot stuff The sex with Kristen seemed hot and pleasurable, but even that was the souled because when they were fucking Oops, she lost a grandid.len walked in it was like Jz just happened. This is tough. I'd like Alisent at some point to just enjoy a Big bathtub with a consenting partner that she's not related to. Yeah. That would be great. And not of gaping wounds. I hope she's at least masturbating in the big bathtub I'm sure. She's c today What else is there to do? She's like, Amon, I was in the bath. for a week It's waterpof U Jace Speaking of complicated relationships between mother and son, Jason impisons his own mom You know what I'm against it Were you surprised We'll parse J's motivation or Rhenyas's response, but were you surprised that Laurent was like me Or does it fit with just the men always So my Understanding When he says you're osed to die for your quueen. Yes. What is he literally say anyway? Yeah. something like that. Your life for hers. Right. He knows that the outcome will be. He's gonna die. Yeah. Coom to die for the dragon quQeen, right? Like to keep her locked in a room. Like he's like, you gott to do this And you're probably gonna to die But it's going to be worth it becausecause she's going live This is just nuts. like con Lawrence like patriarchy makes a lot of sense, man. when you put it that way Sh you get Kiligar in all this? the guy's like, sorry, I'm busy ignoring her her whail screams. I'm otherwise occupied. Yeah, this was I was really, I mean, it effectively conveys a T verser Lauret. a character we've enjoyed. Yeah, reallyally, really tough I did enjoy Rhaenyra when she closed the doors and Jace's face when he was like, if you die? And she's like ing, I thought that was Very good and very funny. Yeah. I was prepared for this only because this is not what happens in the book, but I was prepared for this because the scene of her beating down the door was like in all the trailers I was like What is this if not Yeah them trying to keep Rhenirra from the gullet That's right. and it called that on the trailer braaker. You did. I mean, yeah, okay. You did. I was just like the doors always seem to be. Dragonon who knows why. Baya notes to Jase This is treason and you shouldn't do it. She's like patriarchic, youre not great The manic glint hits his eyes. Yeah, did you take this as Targaryian Madness Oh No, but it's entirely possible, you know, It's about destiny purpose. For sure. I think it feels like maybe yeah, weaning in a couple different forms for this particular family I think that this is it is really interesting as a character beat, one of the lasts that we'll get for young Jiserys because I think that he is sincere and wanting to keep his mother safe for various reasons. Shehe. lost Luke and that is a a wound and a source of pain. he doesn't want to lose his mind because he would miss her and he loves her Also that would be the end of his claim. That's it. No one's supporting Jason if Rheneryas's. Oh, he's very right. Like like if Aegon dies or Aemmon dies, like there's a clear line of blonde succession that they can follow over If Rhenerra dies or like you're a bastard, we're out. Right. But the strong boys And without Raenyra it's over. Right. And that that insecurity born of being a bastard is so present here in so many ways. There's missing blond, babies. The like practicality of that from Jace here of like, I kind of know what I wouldn't be able to maintain. But then there's also just the baser When when this his response to the sewing was Even this you're gonna to take away from me. Like I ride a dragon and that's the one thing I have to basically like tell everyone to fuck off who says to dilute my cl dilute my claim the magnitude of being a rider. He is so desperate. And yeah, he wants to protect her. He's so desperate to go ahead and prove him. But Rhaenyra has been desperate to do this her whole life and she was told her whole life to like, you can't do this. you don't get to do this. And she like took her dragon and went to Dragonstone anyway hanging on that one bridge that they put in front of the volume, you know, like Yeah, it looks great clouds. I love that part of it. that like irony that they are both they're doing the same thing to each other. I think with J like the extra degree is gendered, but like It's' near is tight. You know, she was told no, no, no, totally. Oh, he's wrong No I know you're. I know you're. I know you're not supporting him, but I'm just saying like in terms of like forcing the pyche In terms of like teenagers being told they can. Yes She was told she couldn't. And so maybe she should like think about that differently, Jason. For for sure. Yeah But if she isn't, and she's like, it's I gott to do this. And by the way, Le us Renier neither of them have fought in a battle Rhaenira. Why, But I think Rhenyra has more like dragon experi like we met her riding her dragon, you know, I mean like, obviously like J's trained on his dragon and stuff like that, but it's just like, but also Vermmax is a young dragon. Yes. Syraax would be much more capable season. you know? No question. Like when Sheepsealer flies in and Sheepstaler is huge with like giant sk, you know, like and ye those I don't think those, I don't know, what are we calling them? Grappnelals? Yeah grappel. I don't think those grappinals could have permeated Chf stealers. Armor, a tougher, a tougher scale. Vermmax and mond dancers,nder tender little teens. You know what I mean? L I know. They're not fully mature dragons. Jace was not ready for this. This's just a fact. I agree with you. I think that Rhaenyra and Cyraax are just more seasoned. they're more attuned to each other. I think that the the fact that, you know, Jason and Rhaenyra are kind of wounding the other in the way that they specifically feel wounded.. I am put on the sidelines. in under the guise of protection, but really that makes me feel like I can't do the thing that I know I'm equipped to do, et cetera is like a real tragic element here. Yeah. Yes. And again, I know you're not defending Jace, but like the difference being like King Visera is putting his daughter in her place And he can because he's the king. Yes she's his daughter No question. And the son putting her his mother in sovereign. His queen. She's the queen. Yes. but she gets oppressed on both sides of the generation line because she's the woman he gets accomplishices inside of this. Exactly. ye. I think what Jast does here is irredeemable and undeniably wrong. I think I know he stems from A place of like, we have enough understanding of his history and his wounds and insecurities to kind of understand how he would arrive at this point. You agree with Misaria as you always do It was just trying super. I don't know how she'. The accent has gotten better, better, way better. B, which is a It's a relief. bar was in the bottom of the gu get, she cleed it. It's a relf. Raenyra's reaction, I think makes complete sense and is totally justified, right? She's got this entire life like, you noted Viserys everything dating back to You can't go there. And like Oa didn't let Viserys go either. Back in season one episode two, but like Rhenyra was capable and actually got it done and it didn't matter. It didn't lead to any in the next circumstance where Rhaenyra wanted to do something to everyone saying, Okaykay. And when Rhaenyra says in this episode, I may appear to have the weak and fe body of a woman, but I possess the heart and spirit of a king, it is undeniably tr I thought Emma Darcy as always Spoke so brilliantly and beautifully about the character and the character beats in the inside the episode. sayaying It's control in the guise of protection. What a perfect way to put it, right? It is gendered. She knows that this is gendered. She's well aware that her warrior spirit would be heralded were she male. do have examples again, Jee, it's like, no, you can't go do this Viserys, no, you can't do this. But if for Naro work, no one's telling Aemon to not exactly No one's telling Aemon and Aegon not to go out to battle. likeike absolutely not Um This reminded me of one of my favorite A Shakespeare ls andard. Always welcome. Beatr says as much do about nothing Oh that I were a man I would eat his heart in the marketplace. U but We got a bunch of emails about this because I may appear to have the weak and fe body of a woman, but I possess the heart and spirit of a king is something that Elizabeth first wr a real sovereign said at Tilbury to her troops And a lot of people remarked on it, I've seen reactions all across the map of like how people felt about it. Some people like, love this. Some people are like, why would you put a real world quote into a fantasy setting? U we got a couple I thought interesting emails So, um Our listener, Emma said in via Her boyfriend Jo said this, but she sent it in for him. Okay Joe write your own emails, but okay. Joe said even if cribbing from Qi one wasn't lazy, it would still be enormously at odds with Rhayra's character. Rhayra is a queen desperately trying to reject the constraints of sexist norms Elizabeth I embraced those same norms, leveraged them to her advantage, and wielded power as a result The two characters could not be more dissimilar. Elizabeth famously esched marriage, Rhaenyra has been married twice. Rhaenyra rides one of the largest dragons in the realm. Elizabeth never so much as attended a battle. The speech from which the line is copied was given before her soldiers marched to face the Spanish Armada, they did so while distinctly queenless. Elizabeth's most lasting achievement was likely deciding which group of religious men would hold outsized and unjustified power Joe said in early in his email, I'm Irish, so might I might I'm a strong baser. I really love that part. Anyway Elizabeth's last aieve was likely deciding which group of religious men would hold outsize and unjustified power over her entire realm for centuries to come. As far as we can tell, Rhaenyra last saw a religious official when she had her super secret Best pal meet upp with Alison in the Septic Bailer that one time. and even then, she clearly couldn't wait to be shot of the place. So I thought that was interesting. I think it was interesting comparing like As we think about Allicent, working inside of the patriarchy and Queen Elizabeth the Virgin Queen, like working inside of the patriarchy to wield power and Rhaenyra trying a different path. The young Rhaenyra was very opposed to viewed marriage in the child bed as a deccent. Yes, ye, absolutely. Our listener, Liz says, the immediate context also stuck me as interestingly contrasting. Elizabeth said this line to a speech to soldiers masked and waiting a potential invasion. It is clearly performative in a way that Rhaeny's privately uttered line is not. Does Rheniy actually believe her body is inherently weak Girlfriend rides dragons. Maybe she believes it in the moment under the circumstances and with her hands bloodied from pounding on the door, or maybe it's just an awkwardly placed reference. So anyway, a lot of people liked it. We just I thought those few critiques were interesting from our listeners We talked about this a lot At the end of Thrones, like, you know, there were just occasionally like either real world Tades or quoting other characters inside of the show and we were just sort of like bumps a little. And so like to me, you know, it bumps a little. Yeah. I'm not mad about it, but it bumps a little. So, you know, yeah, it's interesting. I thought that like I I do think the decision to incorporate a real R. quote is kind of an always fascinating choice in this universe. I think that the like Rhaenyra, so we've talked over the prior seasons about You know, those like Rhenyra when Daemon and the council when they're at the end of season one are kind of doing dragon math and plotting a war and Raenyra is in childbirth, Th those moments where it's like reaming onnce again being Yeah, and Kaliggar's like S'ar you. M I it like undeniable aspect that something is different for her than it is for the men who are trying to tell her what to do and what she's allowed to do and what is safe and what is not. So like Reni are kind of acknowledging that in this capacity in this moment, especially where she's like, I'm used to all those other fuckers in my council trying to tell me they know better, basically like trying to rule my kingdom. while I'm standing right there but my own Queen'sguard My son, like what hope is there if even they do it? And so like the I may appear I have viewed it less as Rhaenyra feeling that way about herself and more like, I know that that's what they, which felt then very in keeping with those conversations at the end of season two with Masaria about like, but I was never taught the like what's a foiall, right? They He never put a sword in my hand. And so then in this sequence here, when Rhaenyra picks up that sword What is she doing with it? Is she there stabbing people the Battle of the guullet with the sword? No, she has to take that implement of war and shred a garment of the as Emma Darcy put it, The ruling queen. this is the quote from inside the episode. She kills off the perpetual obstacle. This is shhredding the dress. She put on the writing letters and theners can't use them. Yeah. Right. So in the writing letters, letather still shredding this gown. Emma Darcy said, She kills off the perpetual obstacle, which is the way she's perceived. And from this moment forth think she takes on the image Kill the quQueen, let the king be born Oh man, great stuff, great stuff. So this was harrowing, as is the battle. We've hit a lot of stuff in the battle already. Any just overall is like a set piece in a television show or a keybeat in the story in terms of how this was filmed, the scoring, the naval tactics, the blend of point of view characters that you want to hit that we haven't before we get into Um A little bit more of the sheep stealer of it all I think so. I mean, I think I think they did their best. I think they didn', you know, we saw all of the practical ships that they built. I think they did their dry tank. I think they did their utmost to like make Lohar and Thailand characters to give us Al. I just it wasn't like wholly successful for me. I thought it was inventive. like some of the, you know, like, you know, Corless being like, all lead her through this straight and she't following and she can't, you know, and like All of that, I thought that was I thought it was really creative. It just didn't like emotionally hit me the way that Yeah the best versions, you know, like A home or something like thatash shark. I don't care about Lowharr like as a character. So Lohara being that central of a driver of the action I think defefinitely keeps it a tier below some of the most kind of he thrones bat. But even in Hardhome, when we talk about Hardhome, we talk about a character like Carcy who we lik that moment in that episode. Yeah. You're right. You know what I mean? there's ways to do it, but it's hard. Yeah. I did really, really like the dragon stuff though Also Bchfist is a sickname for a ship. should I should give the tririarchy that This decision to Have Rena on Sheep stealer just go right into battle we've already talked about. We've provided our feedback. It's too late. should have done some more training. Didn't happen. It's tough. I love that, you know, the tririarchy who we talked about this on Talk of Thrones, but have faced Dragons before. thans Daemon, right? Thanks Laneor cor. In the stepstones, so they do come know a little bit more prepared. The sailors of the tririarchy, this is from Fire and Blood had faced dragons before whilst warring against Prince Daemon and the Stepstones. No man could fault their courage. They were prepared to meet Dragon Flame with such weapons as they had. Then it builds toward. it is one thing to face a dragon and another to face five, which is a great like dun d, d moment in fire and blood. But I really liked that we got first grappnal hitting Vermmax in like the Hatus. Yeah because I think it does just enough of important work Raino Sheep stealer We've got a lot of notes, right The impact of that is undeniable. It fits a theme that we'll talk about in a second I think that seeing this tells us It was a rap for Jason Vermax anyway. Jace was not prepared for this battle flying lo of two guys. It's possible that he wouldn't have flown that l. I mean, that's That's the whole thing Again, Fire and Blood is a very brief text, so you don't it's not like there's pages and pages of pages of this battle, but thing about Jace is that he flew too low. Yeah. I want to read it All seemed lost, all was lost Several differing tales were told afterward of how and why the dragon fell Some claimed a crossbowman put an iron bolt through his eye But this version seems suspiciously similar to the way that Maraxes met her end long ago in Dorne. Another account tells us that a sailor in the Crow's nest of A Mirish galley cast a grapnel as Vermax was swooping through the fleet One of its prongs found purchased between two scales and was driven deep by the dragon's own considerable speed The sailor had coiled his end of the chain about the mast and the weight of the ship and the power of Vermmax's wings pour a long jagged gash in the dragon's belly The dragon's shriek of rage was heard as far as Spicown, even through the clanger of battle jerked to a violent end. Vermmax went down, smoking and screaming, clawing at the water. Survivors said he struggled to rise only to crash headlong into a burning galley. Wood splintered, the mask came tumbling down, and the dragon thrashing became entangled in the rigging when the ship Healed over and sank, Vermax sank with her. is said J Jahir um sorry D again. It is said that Deserys Velarian leapt free and clung to a piece of smoking wreckggage for a few heartbeats Until some crossbowmen in the nearest Mirish ship begin loosing quarrels at him The prince was struck once Then again More and more Mermerman brought crossbows to bar, finally one quarrel took him through the neck, and Jase was swallowed by the sea We have a we have an important visual here, a visual comp, visual reference ' It is the exact same face. And you told us on talkk of Thrones and you had texted me this before, you could hear Rob as you were watching this. Mother. Oh my God, it is sad. The Vverack stuff is so sad to me. He was just Oh my go. V dying like really hurt my feelings. Itve better. But this idea that like Jase flew too low, but like if he if he got Hit once. Isn't it possible he would have not flown that low again. were he not veering at the last minute from Sheep Stealer simply because he recognized Ryna and went down that low again because he was try Vermax to B' defense to moancer mooon dancer's defense. So yes, I mean, they all are culpable. Everybody's got some reflecting to do or Jase because he's dead. not Bayle would did great. B Baner. B no noise grab like the hook gets in the scale and then your own strength, like your might, the source of your power that you have a you are a dragon or you have a dragon, you can fly is the force that pulls and downs drapped in, which is something that we talk a lot in terms of like who's strapped in and who's not on their dragon. Saddled and strapped in. So it's possible that if like he had not if he had been unstrapped sooner, could he have like cleared the corppsse and sw sw fast enough that You know, they wouldn't have been like, Hey, that's Prince just just Sarah. could have just, I mean, maybe could have gotten away. Maybe instead, he's just doing this really impressive like an Swan diving just gets an arrow through the neck mid aair. like could happened that way. Our loter Macy wrote a letter to say, didid eith of you notice how the season openers always end with someone losing their air Season one Viserys losing Balon? Season two with Aegon losing Jaaharris and season three with Rhaenyra losing Jase. There you go. It was the right decision not to end. season two with Gullip. It's a classic season opener. It all happened the way it was meant to all for a reason. We'll miss Jase, you know. this is the heir to the Iron Throne. So this is a big deal. An air. to the Iron rone. It's the air. You know, there are others, but the air to the Iron rone. It's a big deal. We saw the reaction to Luke's death. Welcome to the stage, Jeoff. I know, Jeff, you're up. You're up. We know we say you on vacation, but you're up U I from the Rinna Sheep stealer perspective, we talked about this on talk of Thrones. I opened with it is my favorite thing about the episode, but like just to hit it quickly. Oh yeah Since minute one, you know, the opening scene of the show is the Gay Council, right? Jeherris And we get the voice overver from Renary you know, the only thing that tear down the house of the dragon was itself. This has been the harbinger and the warning and The series premiere, the first episode of season one, features that moment with Viserys when he is Choosing Rhaenyra They're in front of Belerian's skull, right? surrounded by the candles And he says to her the idea that we control the dragons is an illusion There were power mentioned never of Tifle W, one that brought Valeria to doom. If we don't mind our histories, it will do the same to us. We saw that at the end of season one Was Air ac listening to Luke? No Was Vhagar listening to Aimmond? No. And Vhagar E dollars an Ax. As a result, the theyed was like wing And he's like, I I' meant to do that Fire and blood quote that I've read a thousand times, but we'll read a thousand more. Who can know the mind of such a beast? This idea that the Targaryens have the hubris the main the insanity of saying Yeah. And I'm a magical creature obsessive. So on the one hand, I love this bond. I think the bond between a dragon and its rider is like an incredibly rich and meaningful thing That's different from saying, you're gonna listen to me and do like another fire blood quote that we love is like a dragon It's not a horse. notot a horse Not a horse and not a horse. Dragons are not horses, ye. They inccredible. a horse. A horse thing is gonna be a lasting bit. I can already tell, and it's welcome. Are you sure? Yeah, so I'm sure I meory bad that I probably will not remember this next week. We're gonna to be back doing talk to Thrones in a couple of days, and Chris is gonna be like what the fuck are you guys talking about? And we're going have to remember to save it for the deep dive. And then next Tuesday, we'll bring it back This is just perfect. You know, the characters who keep making these mistakes, it's here for a reason and the fallout of this war when we end the episode, it's just decimation and destruction everywhere. right? Uncle versus nephew, sister versus sister. That's my sister incredible moment Pretty stupid I you said on Don thrats and I was like, is that there to just like actually remind people because it's been two years since the show has been on? That's why this are Bela. Oh man. Where's the family tree? The battle in the guullet raged into the night north and south of Dragonstone and remains amongst the bloodiest sea battles in all of history. A question Chris asked on talkalk of Thornes was like, who like who won? Who's the victor? We didn't want to read this quote Be we didn't want to you can still skip ahead I think, even though you're going to re go ahead ten seconds. I'm going to react the character name. It is written that when Rdacted was congratulated on his victory her victory is their victory Rdacted said, If this be victory, I pray I never win This is a This is a point. This is a this is a py faster. Pyric victory in every string. That's right. Uh, who saw Renna And will it matter? What the answer to that question is because whether anybody other than Jace who is dead actually was able to identify identify thats Rinna, what everybody saw Capepsaler Another dragon came in and was fighting under dragons and bing everyone, includinginctive dragon with a clear underbite likeike not just any, you know, like I understand that Chris Ryan's like not all dragons, All the dragons look the same. easy to mark. Pretty Yeah, tough. I would say who who are like the most It's like Caraxes number one, Boodworm, Boodworm Tesarion, Blue queen I mean, Vagar are based on just kind of vagar. S Vagar. Yeah Sheep stealer I would put sheep stealer up there and then yeah. maybe Sunfire the goldenun fire the dragon the real. Sunfire depends how brightly the sun is shining If you can see the gold glinting off the because sometimes people think it's Cyraax because Cyraaxx has like also gold sort of goldy coloring. Wouldn't it feel like shit if you were also a golden dragon and no one talked about you that way There's Cyraos and there's sunfire. the most beautiful wagon in all the world. L glimer and the pink membranes. Like what about me? I'm also blonde Anything else before we get to the book spoiler. I we did it. Book spoiler section. Okay, you were warned via fancy graphic and spooky sounds. Once again, if you do not want to hear about things that happen in Fire and Blood that have not yet happened in the show, this is where you leave us. The horn of Helms Deep did sound. Love it All right, we have a few things that we want to quickly h How do you think this is gonna to go over with Rheniyra? Not great You wantan to read that quook Broken by the loss of one son, Rhaenyys, Targaryens seem to find new strengths afterfter the loss of a second Jace's death hard in her burning away her fears, leaving only her anger and her hatred. stillill possessed of more dragons than her half brother Her grace now resolved to use them matter the She would rain down fire and death upongon and all those who supported him, she told the Black Council and either tear him from the Iron throne. die in the attack So Raenier is like, it's go time She's like kill the quQeen kill the mom Mom's dead King forer a timeime Nettles and Renna Okay, this is like so fascinating Okay, so here's deal. So like Rayna so Bela or anyone on the ship is like, hey, Jase died. because there was this giant dragon with an underbite here withith a rider that we didn't recognize. new a new bombshell has enter the villa, right? Like someone has a dragon. Someone has a dragon. Yeah. We got didn't come alone. We got to filter this in the dragon math. Who is this dragon rider? We don't know. U The dragon was burning bullships, but sort of seemed to be attacking us. So does Team Green now have a new dragon and a new Dragon Rider Can they link Ryna to Sheep Stealer Because if they can Rhaenyra, so canonically, yes Rhaenyra hates nettles. Yeah for like you're fucking my husband.ait And I don't think they're gonna do that. I hope not I mean, they could because the book is also like, this could be Demon's daughter or it could be his lover or why not both? Right. And it is one of those They're in their bedchamber a lot and like People are whispering, but who knows? who knows the truth behind that door But Rheniyra hates her and Rhaenyra hates her in a way that like is very unflattering to Rhenyra. no matter what. Rhenyr is like This young woman should die It's going to be a slightly tough sell, but this woman should die because I'm jealous that Damon is fucking her. versus You were supposed to protect my two young sons and you abandoned them. And then you went and kind of and then Jay died kill accidentally sure, but like kill the heir to the throne I think that's a really clever, tidy way to sort of like tie this Rhenyra Nettles vendetta, which drives a wedge between Damon and Rhaenyra. I guess the question I have is like What's the wedge becausecause Damond like does not have a relationship with Renna. I know. So like ye, is he going to defend Renna against Raenyra if she finds out or, you know what's interesting is that's like harder work for the show to do now because Damon hasn't given a shit. So does some sort of like paternal And instincts the end of Markin. He's like, Ohh was always about being a dad. Being a dad is important It's always about being a dad and here' some custom merch Yeah. I did like those jackets more than I like the movie Gotta say. Yeah I think subbing the source of the wrath for the dead kids is the origin is Pretty interesting. There are a couple like because that's the biggest thing. There are a couple other aspects of this like Okay, so Nettles and sheepstle learn the text, they kind of just vanish the mount in the moon. That's where Rin up sheep stealer are like, o Okaykay, that all makes sense. We can see how that part of the nettle story is going to probably apply here. It's not just that Nettles isn't Sheep stealer's writer. It's that Rinna isn't going to get her book dragon. I am probably one of Ib I doubt too many people care about this, but I maybe they do though I I'm sad about this. I'll tell you why. wasas morning? So in the book, Raina, because remember those other eggs went up to the veil, right? I do Folks are like, I don't remember the show was on two years ago. The other eggs went up to veil. So Ra has an egg who is born eventually one of one of the eggs hatches, her dragon, morning is born. Now was that dragon if they had stuck with that? If they had done nettles on Sheepstiller and had morning be born to Rinna, would that dragon have played any role in the dance of the dragons It's a little baby hatchling. However When morning is born It's like the greens are like fuck because they have no dragons at that point So then it's like its kind of feels like to them like a sign. that Team Black is more worthy and the realm is going to think that There's other rays to do that, but I just think I mean, yeah, because there's like, you know the little blonde babies or whatever, you know, like I just think that They can'tot kill. they have to kill Stormcloud. Egon the I third don't have a dragon, rightight? Mallory. I don't think they give a shit about Eegon the I thirId in Stormcloud. I don't know you'll ever hear about them again. I think what? I think Rhaenyra dies and that's the and that's the end.. I don't think they're doing think the kids are coming? No, I don't. What? I don't.. I think Raenyr dies and that's the end of the show be like an Agon III is now king. Mbe like far off. this is why I think Thailand might be dead Tylan might be dead. I think the show ends when Rhaenyra dies I feel like it's more like when egnda, you know mean I feel like it's possible. I certainly think it's possible that like basically the Rhaenyra stuff is like the panel of an episode They couldn't even pull a danny and have it be like inside of the finale There's gott to be like at a minimum, like a coda Do that Yeah, because I need Craig and Stark back at Dan. It starts with Rhaenyra, ye on CyRax, That's how we start I think it ends with Rhaenyra dying. I If they liked us, they will show Aegon dying too. But like I think it ends with Rhenyra dying in Alisent Allison being there to see it. inststead of her kid, it's Alison watching Rhaenyra die. Don't you think that that's what this show is about This show is about Alison watching Rhaenyra die. Is it not I don't know. I no insider information on this, but like we've got one more season after this. Yeah. Jeez. I really think we're just, you know, Dam is going to die midseason Yeah, I mean, that could even be the beginning of season four potentially. I don't know They want to keep around as long as possible. Maybe it's episode three Yeah of seeason four. I mean, I think Aliceon watching Eg' have suunfire, eat Rhenyra would be pretty compelling television based on the show that we've watched I am having, I think, a harder time wrapping my mind around them not getting to the other stuff at all. Like how are we gonna resolve like Laris And like, I mean, they have to kill Egon. They have to at least do that. And then doesn't there have to be some of the fallout with the other like Be we've also invested time in those characters, right? We don't to see Laris's head on a spike at the end. I mean I know you don't want you want him to live forever. I guess like the fact that they are telling all these other Targaryen tales too, onn the one hand, you could say they could keep they could wait, right? But on the other hand, like, I don't know. Aon becauseuse I feel like while I do not think they plan to do a house of the Dragon Aegon I third. No, I don't think so either. But I think establishing kind of this simultaneous like Rhaenyra died, but like her heir became king feels like And and then also the fact that that kid grows up to be You know, when I'll get terrified of dragons, the dragon bane, but they're not doing they're not doing Dragon bane. L They didn't they're about doing it? What about ten minutes of me? No I could maybe give you a title card at the end. Okay. I need at least that. Dhaenerra's son Egg on the third tast that. someome of the like white font of the blacks at least that. godamnit. Okay, fair. However many, whatever the Daenerys title card that opened it? That's right. And then close with Egg on the third. Okay. I need at least that I need at least that Um, between now and then Aammon will be finding Harrenhol empty Except He's going to kill herer Simon. Alice is going to be there. So this is what you were alluding to with. We understand why they're doing this. They're setting up Another love affair with an older one. I know, but what's so funny is like I do not think that Gail Rankin and Ian Mitchell look that much like apart in age. I mean, this is also like Olivia Cook, they look like they're the same age. They always have. Olivia Cook gave a great at interview recently where she was just like, Hollywood honestly. She was like what the fuck U I listen your catroning to say, what if Alice and Aaman hook up, but Alice is glamored and Aymon Cesar is Allicent? Does Aymon know it's Alice and this is their little role play or does he truly think Allicent came to him Interesting. That's a fun theory. Yeah. Ooh. cook. want you want to do more scenes where you make out with your son? we got you. Oh, I like that. That's a great one. I mean, I do think no matter what Alice is just gonna be like with Aman's mind. I hope so. you know, I look forward to it We're talking with some other stuff too. Yeah. Roddy the Rin Butcher's Ball and Tumbleton He obviously they're going to change some stuff because as you've noted, the economy of character, like some of the characters who are involved in Butcher's Ball to Kristen D death, just like aren't here? Do you think Robby's just going to be the one who kills him I like those other characters. I know much. I know. We gotta get Pate in here. Yeah. I know.'s the Lionslayer. I know. I know. I hope that still happens. We're like is I gonna? Probably not Probably not. Probably Rdie the Roon gets to do all the cool shit. I mean, he's going to get to ake out Orment Humbleton, pretty sick. That's awesome. Speaking of awesome, do you think they'll let Daamon kill Krisen Cole But no because Damon has to leave, though he could go back. He's going to dragon. He's forever going places. He is, he loves to travel. Yeah. This is a student of the world, you know Um I definitely think we're getting the we have to do the Butch' ball because Kris and Cole has to have like notot the big epic death he wants, but like it's got to be a death sad. Yeah. A death. No songs about how brave you die. And then we have to have Dumbleton, obviously. For sure. So the fact because we this was like something we were really We were debating as we broke down the trailers and have been talking about this since the end of season two, like how much room do they have for the battle? Will Butcher's ball be like a quick thing or will My new feeling is if we're not getting a full fish feed doesn't seem we'reing honeywine because they're like the high towers are on the man. I feel like yada yada the honeyine. Witchter'sall I feel like it's gonna be big. Yeah. Witch's ball and then Tumbleon and then. That seems right to me, and obviously the taking of Kingsland before either of them. Tumbleton Take a King's landing It should be on the tomorrow. Yeah. onn themorrow. On the today. Tambleilton setu upp so far to betray our setup is I think They're doing a good job with this. So O Of in Hugh, Yeahah, really good. for different reasons. Yes. Of is like U He's got the mounting resentment. No assle, what the fuck, rightight? There's that. There's like an actual reason for him to be like, do I need to like stay on your side? But also just the fact that he's like he's rash. He does what's right for him. He's not really a true believer. All of that very clear. Adam quite loyal. Adam being simultaneously in the same cluster with them, thus like setting up the everyone else is going to say, well, surely you're a traitor too, right? lumping him in, but we see clearly he's not. A traitor. It's going to be so hard. We're gonna to hang with Rhaenyra when she turns on Adam It's going to be that's awful. but we have a lot of it's going to be hard to hang with Rhaenyra stuff coming So true bestie I can't wait for Bull John Roson to take Orphan Maker. Go up to you Hammer and say, Lord, haammer my condolences for what? You died in battle? I mean slip on its entrails. If you were going to slip on somebody else's something and then yourself die, do you want it to be an entrail? or do you want it to be something else? I simply would not U leegitimizing the bastards. Yeah a life, perhaps, but not a name. This is something that Alan says to Corla, setting up book cananon, which is Coraless' pursuit of legim legitimizing them. they become Larn Alan Valerian from of Hole, right? So they're setting up this as something that will happen I guess soon. Something Corless dearly want. Somet Corless want. Also the fall of House Valarian here, right?. L H home burns, but like his house is just like In shambles. Yeah. There's a reason you haven't heard of House Harian in the future. It's tough Also, one of our listeners emailed and they were like, I's pretty sure Jace is gonna die because' pretty sure it wasn't King Jace Valarian because it's the fucking Targaryens. so ye So that was part of their agreement, right? that like They could be called Valarian until they took the throne until they're targeted Seris was like I suggesting that we cheange the royal house name end just because my daughter's a woman. is like the handshake and he was like Fingers were falling off, good stuff Um Mentioned honey onene. Yeah Bes erasher, How you feeling? How you doing? I'm pissed This is when it's a real bummer that we can't put. This stuff from the spoiler section on social But maybe we can in this case. Well, I think I think going to at the minimum. I think' once it's very clear. once it's so clear that we're not doing honeywine. Yeah. you take it to make. I'm taking it too. Yeah. The Beesbury erasure Outrageous. I mean,'re still mad about what little Beesbury we got in night of the Seven Kingdoms. Crazy. and everyone's mad about that Dozens of us in the streets Imagine if we got to see another Beesbury in a bee coffin. Come on now. That be coffin was sick. I Anything else on the book spoiler front? Yeah.. Okay. So we did get a couple of emails about the erasure of Aegon and Viserys. these Hill hell, the conqueror babes that are supposed to be on the cog the gay abandon. rightight? And they're not involved, right? So that changes Jace's motivation, which I talked about on Talk of Rounds, that I feel fine about talking that in the non spoiler section, right in the book Jace has I would consider it better motivation u, you know, to go out and rescue his brother. Right? Like, then then mom, you can't go R. It's my destiny. I gott to go. Right You know Because Egon flies back cllinging clinging to tiny little storm cloud, first and last time riding a drag Before he watches Sunfire eat his mom. Yeah Tumatus Text canon stunk like piss. How would How would arirment respond not well And that's yeah. And so then they gott to go try J was like, well, I gott to go get Seris, right Who is not found quite some time unt he comes I mean, these boys have a vibrant stretch of story. And as, you know, Ryan Conda was like, listen You guys bit when we did a time jump in season one. Did you want us to do another time jump to age up those kids enough that why allowed you to make the kids to proper age in the first place? Well, not when they like show them It was it's like seven and nine, right? Yeah, but Yeah, but they're like Babies They're so c like they're babies when Viserys is still alive and you wanted seven or nine years to pass after Viserys' death. They should' have been the right age in the first. Well they they should' have been seven or nine when Viserys died, sw Yeah. But then you couldn't be like, here's my baby and him b be like That is of name. I do love that, you're right Maybe it wass all worth it All right what listener our listener to Tom said, this event of Aegon fleeing on Stormcloud and Viserys getting taken to Esos serves partially to establish Jase's motivation to join the battle, but more importantly to set off Aegon the Younger's character development and his guilt in not rescuing his brother as well as the first of many traumas. If most series are correct and the series is going to end at Rhaeny's death, or at Aegon II's death right after, then it makes sense to exclude any significant character building of Aegon the III in favor of characters we will see farar more of D disagree. I agree And agree And Our listter Hill is the one who's like, if we're not developing Egg on the third as a character. if those blond babies just go to SS and never come back, then swappy and Alent for Aegon as as the person watching Rera die in horror is much more fitting with the show that we've been presented with. Yeah I don't know where they're gonna end the show, but it really seems like they're not interested in continuing beyond The story of Rhaenyra I'm sorry. He's Tyling Lannister dead. And that what do you think? Yeah. I think yes, you think no You think he has a lot to do, but does he have a lot to do that is he does have a lot to do. He's got to like lose his eyeballs and like all sorts of other stuff. and he's got to be around at the end for, I guess the stuff that are not going to put in the show. for the next generation stuff, which I don't think they're gonna do. I understand like when when you're on talk toes they're like . I'm like I understand why you think that because He does have a lot to do in the book, but I just kind of think they might be done with him. And if they're not, let's say they're not. Yeah And like book readers are debating, Is Ty and Lanis or dead? They're not sure. right? We know Corlus is not dead. R But is Thailand who went in full armor into the drink, is he dead? Yeah. If he's not Yeah He's there not to show us that quickly because if there's like a dramatic return of Tylin Lannister in like episode eight of this season The Viewers gonna be like, who? It would almost be like the nine hundred other times they had a character managed for almost an entire season and then reminded us of who they were I'll just say Joe Cannon that lannisters in particular could fall into bodies of water in their armor. Yeah, Jamie. and be Even if they have a heavy gold hand. is sereriously It was a very shallow sort of part. It was deeper than it should have been. I'll say that. Maybe this is just motivated by the fact that I want to see Joanna Lannister just like really take center stage as the most important Lannister on the show. Love a Joanna. Yeah. loveo Joanna. Love Joanna. Do you think we'll the Red Krken attacking Lanisport? Probably not M not. What if we got that, but don't get egg on the third Maybe. I mean, I would not be surprised if they gave us some ironborn and stuff in season four I wouldn't be surprised Yeah There we did it Al alwaysways be pillaging I always been pilging and always be bing. Can I tell you something? please I do not know how long this podcast is. I had a blast. H had a great time. I had the best. I think we came in under three hours. Wow, but like maybe by like it might be like two hundred fifty seven, but that counts, it doesn't That counts. Carlos is going to come in and be like, you don't remember what time this started. That'song, but I think it's right Speaking of Carlos, let's say our thank yous What a squad today. My goodness. we have with us, Carlos Cherbger, our wonderful producer, leegend always. Scott Lee Jamie Yeah and Jacob are both here today in embarrassment of fucking riches. The control room is busy. the treat when Jamie's here, it's a treat when Jacob's here. they're both here? Oh my gosh. Yeahet someone you know throws his back Our Jinner Im Cap Powell, Iill and not with us, but with us in spirit. A Jason and Tylland Lannister of No, I'm just kid dare you and joow me a dinneron Now and always, join us. Sunday night the minute episod two end. I don't know long episod two is, but whatever time that is. This is a long boy. Yeah, this was sixty six minutes. The third longest episode in House of Dragon History. Is that true? That is true Gesh. I suspect we'll get some other meaty ones, some long ones as we go, Gorothy Two seasons left, eight episodes, not enough time, just my take. but also I expect four episodes on A on Thurs Part of why that's my take Join us Sunduray night for Talk of Thrones with CR on episode two and then join us next. Monday for Lat episode four