Final Thoughts and Cookie Tasting

Hello, welcome back to House of our. It is still Friend of the Pod mononth. My friend Mallory Reubin is here. I'm Jona Robinson, but more importantly Friend of the Pod Supreme. Grgu Gug is here here. We have a star the studio so. Cookie enthusiast wow. And we're here today to talk about his film. Yes. The Mandalorain and G Star Wars Colon, The Mandalorine and Gro G. Yes Don't worry, we're ethical journalists, so we will not hold back simply because Grogo is here. If we have things to say, we will say them to Grogu's adorable. We have some notes coming, but also some coups, Babelles, harumps and purse. Grogo will be here with us for it all And we're gonna to do all of that Right after this This episode of House of R is presented to you by Target Calling all trainers. 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Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets, which expiire seven days after receivive. restestrictions applies, see full terms at fan dool dot com slash sportsbook Gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset program reminders, Friday of Hod Mth continues topace. We've got a summer hype episode that we're planning to do Ppe meter. Yep Some spider noir. That's right Some tenet. That's right And we've got a couple pals lined up for those shows. A am we gonna to say who they are? No, ' we haven't recorded them yet and anything could happen. This is Hollywood. Dune is almost upon us. Sure is. The vampire Listat, most importantly. Yeah. House of the Dragon. Can't wait a little show that we've heard of. Can't wait. A film that I'm hotly anticipating and definitely know the name of Disclosure Day. I can't wait'm really excited. Yeah Odyssey aroundround the corner, Spergirl San Diego Comicon, we will be there H and all the rest. Yeah,. Mather' was like, I'm looking forward to getting sick. I really don't wan to get sick. I was so sick after Comic Con last year and it's a busy summer. So I've got to strategize how to stay healthy and well, but I did have fun at Comicon. So are you tipping your height meter? Will this sta be number one for you? You're revealing that now?hip people stay tuned. Yeah, who's to say? Okay. I can surprise you. Sure. Yeah Follow us on our new House of ourur Instagram and TikTok at House of our Pod. Yeah. mayaybe you'll get some behind the scenes action there. You know, some of Grogu's takes that didn't make the final edit. Oh, too saved for social for liive. And Hobbits and Dragons dmail. comot That's right. Th. I a couple of emails we're going to read today. Speaking of which Yes. We got a response to Our friend of the pod, David Ligolov came on. Wonderful. Fantastic. Malory M Who win the Dash all that episod You did. I did, you did. handily. Congrats. Thank you so much so much. I like to be gracious in defeat. And I've tried to be gracious in victory over the years as I've aged and matured. wasasn't always the case. But people loved that Damon episode, as did we. We had a great time supporting with Demon. and One of our listeners though, Mariah wanted to push back on something that Damon said. Damon was trying to And he's not here to defend himself He could teex us later. Davon was trying to push back on my Grogu as an accessory argument by shouting out a few other characters who hears beloved Star Wars characters who he felt didn't really have an arc either. And he mentioned C three PO. And this is what Aristter Mariah said U, C three PO absolutely has an arc, of course. and a new hope C three PO is disheveled tells our two to give up on findighting Obi Wan and doesn't see himself as fit for the adventure In emmpire he's literally broken into pieces is symbolic death.. But by the end of return, he too becomes a hero. He steps into being a god to save the team from death and being eaten, enables them to befriend the Eos and holds the Ewox captive with his recounting of their journey. C three Po What a guy. How pissed do you think C three PO would be to learn that Hutts speak English, speak basic? Oh, yeah, interesting. There is a lot of Hutts speakaking basic action from both Rada and one of the twins, of course, in this movie. You know, I think three PO, the question is when you ask him that, is he coming off a memory wipe and would it really resonate in that moment in time? whichich is just something to consider. It's a great question haveave no comment because for I was thinking about this third Star Wars draft in a row three PO in some way was my undoing years ago It wasasn't yours. It could have been months out of what is time? What is time? He invited Van on the pod to do a Star Wars Droid straft, remember? As is often the case, I think, with Star Wars draft, it was a little too hipster, right tried to say it was Ballnower, as CR likes to say, but really it was hipster, Van kicked our asses. He went with some classic characters. We did not, I learned some lessons. it was a takeaway. some lessons were learned the big pick Star Wars draft recently and I stand by the take, but three PO was really central to your strategy. A crucial moment in how that draft unfolded. And then of course, You selected, I think I had some some three PerR two PTSD from that experience And you were able to select them right after I should have taken them. So I just I'm taking a break from thinking about three PO. and I really only have eyes for Grogo and the An Zeelans And that's just where we are with it. Anthony Daniels In this movie. Voice of voice in this movie Ever present. Always. Thanks so much. our hearts and mind is just not always in my dress. But in my drafted, thank you all for voting and making sure that I won by landslide. I really appreciate you all. Spoiler warning, all of Star Wars actually, if it has happened in Con in leegends and comics in cartoons, in live action, on Disney pllus, back in the day when it was Lucas film, whatever the case may be, it is eligible for us talk about, But guess what This movie doesn't connect to a lot a ton of lore. No. So I don't know that we will be diving that deep into lore in this podcast. No, I do think we will talk about the of the ye things that chose to be included and then maybe more crucially not selected for inclusion in terms of the overall stretch of time we've spent with these characters. But yeah, this' be very little happens in the movie on the story advancement front. So not quite as much to dive into But we do have a lot of Grou delights to talk about. so it's a deep dive on the Grogu feelings front, if nothing else D Deep diving into those blue cookies. It's a feelings dive. Let's go now T to our opening snapshot So so we're recording this on Friday. It's quite early, of course, in the run of this movie. It just opened last night. so we're about to throw some numbers at you, but they're early numbers and the story may change by Monday or Tuesday. this is a holiday weekend. But anything could happen Rotten tomatoes currently at imperfect metric. sixty three four critics, tough eightighty nine creeping upwards on the audience score on the popcorn meter. eighty nine on the old popcorn meter. sixty three, eighty nine is a big gap Interesting. Metacritic fifty three three point two on letter boox when I checked last night. So that is where we are Box offffice is tracking. So just like again, we don't know. it's Friday. whoo knows what's going to happen. but eighty to one hundred million is sort of like and that was the initial expectation. And then based on the Thursday night box office, that's sort of where it's holding. I talk domestic for domestic. I talked to a couple people anecdotally who went to see it last night and their theaters were not full So that's just, you know, even here in LA, where oftentimes the opening weekend theaters are full. So that's just interesteresting. Aecdotal evidence. but I have seemed pretty full, Scannon, Maybe not the Nana MX screens. Right U and but it's a Memorial Day weekend. This is scary but fairly kid friendly movie. and you know, if people families are looking to do something with their kids this weekend, like you know, we might see beer box off than that we will see The Avy Club has a write up on this. I've been seeing this narrative go around that eighty million dollars is quite good for a movie that came out of a TV show.. You know, so if your comps are like the Simpsons movie or The JJ Abram Star Trek movie, those made seventy four million, seventy five million do. So eighty million would be the highest grossing movie to come out of a TV show ever. However really dismal return for a Star Wars movie, and especially the first Star Wars movies after seven years of no Star Wars movies in the theater. So Yeah, it's solo territory, right? That's Hashtag makes sol to happen, of course, but also really the comp you want. And we've been talking for in our primer pod and you know the last little stretch of time here about how the narrative had sort of been shaped to like prepare for this outcome, but that doesn't mean that it's what they were initially hoping when they selected this to be right the first Star Wars cinematic event since twenty nineteens Risearker Did we Hhh? This I didid it meet your hype? where your hype was? Like you know, we talked to Damon about sort of what we were expecting Yeah. Did this meet you where you expected it to meet you? I got to sit next to you. did. Yeah. And I will say I'll just say this before you say your answer. Yeah. sitting next to you Boosted my experience like a hundredfold. Hearing you react to the movie caused me so much joy So I liked it much more than if I had been watching it in San Francisco in like a half empty critic screening. I got to hear your An emin delight in person as well. So that was a thrill. Yeah. I love them. They' They're fucking great. They roll You know, as we often say here, inside of each of us, there are two wolves. I think a couple things are true at the same time, genuinely R. I had fun watching the movie We went like a huge group. went We went fifteen people, Ringerverse and pals. It was like A night out on the town. Your husband on one side of you, the most important person in your life, me on the other side of you. My two greatest lovees Gest love Grogo in front of me on the screen. Before the movie started because we saw it in an IiMAac screen before they had the like sort of poster or you display card and it was just gross like contemplative meditative like meditative M moving. And Mallory is just like we were there early to tears And she was just like crying before the movie started. Genuinely. And so on the like proross side here Hey This will not surprise you. It won't surprise anyone who any of the bad babies, you know, the namesakes, the bad babies, like what a time to be the bad babies. I just find Grogu to be genuinely and sincerely, non hyperbolically an exquisite and powerful force. I love I love Croko. He moves me so deeply and he brings me such joy and happiness. When he's having fun, when he's sneezing through a little snow clloud, he makes me laugh in a like really pure way. and he Makes me feel deeply the Grogu deployment in the film brought me a lot of joy, specifically Grogu and the Anzelans, which is, I think undeniably if that had been like a more central part of the movie, we have like a historic achievement on our hands. I had just been the movie. If it had been ninety minutes of Grogu and the Anzelans try to rescue you It's a no no situation on the pod. basically. fantastic. And it does make you think back actually to the decision to after separating Grogu and Din reunite them very quickly in another character show and then pick up in season three with them back together instead of maybe mining that really rich G alone territory because the Grogu alone stretch, that twenty ish, twenty five ish minute stretch of the movie where Din is poisoned and out and Grogu was doing all sorts of things that we'll talk about, know going for filling his canteen with water, hunting to steal a fish and nibble on a fish, making a friend who could have been an enemy, building a mud hut, covering din with leaves. I guess we just talked about it all right there Walking with his little yoda cane I thought to myself, like this is what it means to be alive and a person who is capable of feeling love It was that high of a hive. genuinely. When you Like when people talk about nostalgia as a negative, and certainly they talk about it a lot around Star Wars. Yes. I find I usually don't fall too easily into an assaulted trap, but I will say the stretch of this movie that was the Anzeans and Grou gave me such strong Jim Henson, Dark crystal labyrinth energy. As you know, magical pupp. I fucking love a puppet. and good stuff good. And the puppet stuff in this movie ten out of ten. like amazingational. The there's so much of this movie that I find owardly and horrible. Yeah, We'll get to the cons in a second. We can get to it. but I think it's Brave, not I mean Groku is is a is is an absolute star and a killer. So like It's not brave to put Grogu on your screen, but it's brave to havet a nonverbal stretch Yeah of your blockbustervs and herps and purse. Yeah, just lo every second of it. rting around and it it was beautiful. It was fantastic. It actually was wonderful genuinely. Yeah I also I're just like watching Grogo in the press store ' they're trotting him out in real life. And it is this kind of amazing thing we were talking about was like with the guys before the recording, there's something so nakedly manipulative about it. and it's one of those things where I'm like, I don't give a shit, manipulate me. I fucking love it. He is just You know, the Werner thing, right? Like in the show, I would like to see the baby. You had in our notes the reminder of the call backack to the nuggets that came out of filming season one where he had to say to Werner her dad. Yes, who played the client, of course in season one and is a filmmaker who pursues All sorts of deep and introspected assessments about humanity in the world. And he looked at Grogo and he was like thingight Be they c. Right. They they had the puppet, but they were thinking of replacing him with CGI and he was like, you coward. Yes. And he was puppet. He was so right. It's just the best. The expressions, what he's able to emote is incredible. So like being in the physical space. Like you can tell the difference when when Din lifts him up when like the ears wobble the way he We've gone from the kind of slow moving to like this the rapid shuffle the rapid little shuffle sensational That said. And I do think overall the movie felt like again, entertaining and fun. Did you do because you went to go see it? I did. I saw it again yesterday. you said twenty ish minut. Did you time? I didn't time because don't I don't like to take my phone out and I didn't, I don't have the cinem cinema mode on the Apple watchatch. That feels right it has to be around around twenty ish minutes The movie is two hours and twelve minutes long Yeah. So twenty ish minutes of it we love Yes. And there's stuff outside of that twenty minutes with Lan Zelans and Grogu, you know, when they team up. And other other moments with Grogu and Din you know, Din teaching Grogu how to tighten his armor, for example, which comes earlier in the film I thought was delightful E cor. I think The movie lacks story and significant story advancement in like such a surprising way. You know, it's interesting because I'm like, is it surprising? becausecause I was thinking back to the primer pod we did where we were like, let's make predictions. What do we think iss going to happen? And it was kind of like crickets. And I think maybe just because of the trailers and everything, there was a little bit of a wait, how much is going to happen, but still I was very surprised because I think a couple of things. One, it is a real over cororrection to Um impulse but just taken to too far of an extreme of like, let season three did not work. We broadened the scope of what this story was assessing and lost the focus on the central duo that people loveved. Right which was The Fow of season three. The Dark Saber stuff, the Bo Katan became more about yes. like and I like Bo Kan. I liked the Mandalorian lore, but the show lost the heart of what it was. No question Let's discover the din. Grogu. O two surprising pals and the spirit of adventure. And even the way that season three ended with the adoption and the armor saying like take him out on his journeys, you know, like your teacher did for you I think a a direction that makes sense But we find the characters. I think Grogu made some progress, D' almost none. The lack of connection to the larger, like do we want more stuff about how somehow Palpatineo turned in terms of the Coning arc? No Do we really want to spend all of our time with like how the New Republic failed to get allow the first order to arise. No, but this is a problem with the Mandoverse and where we have landed on the story frront then, because absent that, what you end up with is seventy five ish percent of the movie is just action sequence setpiece fights. And like some of them work and some of them don't, but in the totality of it, is way too much of the movie.omeone I will not name them in case they did not want this take on a microphone. but someone messaged me and was like I think that movie was ten minutes of ships landing and taking off, and that is emblematic of like a large problem of the whole movie. It just like ten full minutes of footage of ships landing and taking off and not to mention just a bunch of fights with C creatures and like. The way that the puppets work so well to me highlights what a failure most of the CGI is for me in this movie. Not all. The Dragons snake, the albino Dragon snake, I thought looked amazing I actually think Martin Scorsese's character is like quite fun and works very well. Good old Hugo. The Gladiator pit with all the fighting there, which looks terrible in the trailers to me and like even worse and protracted in the movie itself. Um, And then all the hut stuff, just like did not hut stuff is done. reallyally did not work for me. And this is a hut centric movie We're in N Hutta for a significant portion of the movie Yeah. We got Hutts just like rolling writhing around like on the floor together and it's just like I I am ff that they put this together and they're like, this is what people want And I know that there are people who who've seen this movie and they enjoyed it. That's great and we love that for you. But like The proposition making a Star Wars movie should feel And about an undeniable feel big. And like even when we were making solo or roogue one, which, you know, outside of the sort of like tririlogy sagas felt like a little bit more minor, but Rogue onene has only grown in estimation and solo as its own sort of like curiosity. But like those felt bigger than this movie does. You know, Rue one especially. And I think that like, You know, the question of like Is this gonna to feel like a movie or does it just feel like a TV show? I mean, all of us walking out of the theater, talking to each other, talking to like friends we saw at the screening, every single person had the same take, which is like this is just four episodes of the television show Maybe five, you know, something like that. It's half a season. and you know, my main review was One of those episodes is incredible. and the rest, Yeah, it's you, bdy, it's you, buddy. Incredible. L genuinely incredible. Not not just, but like get Gatory or Gatori, I don' not sure you pronounce Stephen McKenley Henderson's like rockin chair character. The smoke and fish. G. Loved him. Embo I quite liked too. Eb Embo's in the mix here, like Sashing and then there's like threeree or four episodes of the Mandalorian that I think are quite bor Okay, so I've been thinking about the is it a movie or a TV show and does that matter thing a little bit more? Because obviously this is something that people have been talking about since this was announnce way before we even saw it and got to assess that on its actual merits, right? Especially given like the conversation, which like Favereau largely denies that this is like a reconfiguring of what season four was going to be. There was a script for season four Maybe we will still get us using for. I really hope so because I would like the character journeys to keep moving forward. I'm very invested in Din and Grogo and their journey I think that the reason the TV movie thing holds as an argument is what you already said, which is like that like kind of the rarity, even as we are now into, you know, a dozen Star Wars movies, it's still, we're talking about fifty years, right? So it is still one of the most Holy shit, the entire viewing populace has been animated to anticipate go share and then disiscuss thing because we have a Star Wars movie and it's just not something we get a lot of. And like, as we've talked about before I love Star Wars. It is genuinely one of my favorite fictional universes in the world pretty hid miss in terms of St Wars movies and how many of them some of them are the best movies ever made. Some of them are the Rises comomicer. quQuite bad. Okay So I think for all of those reasons, it is really fair. and of course, because these characters are making the jump from the small screen to the silver screen, from Disney pllus in the Streaming Wars era to we're doing a Star Wars movie, and it's the first one since nineteen. Okay, so all that's really fair posuse it to you and the bad babies that there has never been A four episode stretch of the Mandalorian. where this little happened Never. Yeah. And so I think it's actually It's bad, Mandalorian. It's not even like it's just like the the thing that the movie TV thing, the thing that I think we we kind of collectively sometimes lose when we're like, okay, the movie needs to feel big, and it's true. It needs to feel like an event, the scope, the scale, thekeical a spectacle we talked about all this with Daman, all of which I think we agree about. like The thing that TV does best though, is allow you to feel the movement of the journey and the arc and the life that the characters are living together. You've sunk time in with these relationships and with these characters and you spent all this time with them. that's something that like, you know, the Marvel Cinematic Universe did a really good job of translating that TV feeling into a film franchise, right? By the time we get to Civil warar into Infinity War, into endgame, we have spent we have su time with these characters and we are emotionally invested in them. That is the TV magic Right? And so to attempt to translate that here is Not a terrible idea You know, you've already got this investment and they were trying to make a movie that you could go into Fresh notot having seen The Mandalorian. Yeah. That's that's a tough proposition. This is the constant struggle that both Marvel and Star Wars are facing, you know, right now of just sort of like, you know, how much homework are we going to ask people to do? And they're trying to make you do no homework and it's not really working. The problem also the other thing that made this feel small to me is smallall like you buddy. sweet baby Grogo. Small like the Acell in spaceship. J was great. And his head was touching the ceiling. That' the press D D's like, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna shit, buddy. G. That was one of my favorite moments when the little ship took off and Din's like see a kid and you turn to me and said, has he never H he never seen a movie or a TV show? May me Chuckle Grogu didn't leave. by Grogu. I didn't actually physically see you get on the spaceship, but you're definitely gone and you're definitely not staying to heal me. Anyway. They use the same sets A lot of the same, you know, like, you know, the Adelphi base, like same sets. that makes it feel small You know, TV sets in a movie setting The Petoprescal, which is the next thing I want to talk about, which is the question we were asking oursel when Demon was here is how Much of the movie. Yeah, will we see Petro Pascal, one of our movie stars despite his like fairly patchy movie star run right now, but still just like so charming and so good at what he does when he does it. Yeah. that like 's a way to make this feel big. If on the show the Mandalorian and we are deprived of Pedro Pasqual's face, showh us a ton of the movie star's face in the movie and we're going be like We got to see so much of Dingjarn's face. He had to kill everyone who saw him But we got to watch him I did have my watch on cinema mode When I timed it, it was less than ten minutes that he had the helmet off. Right? Becauseuse it was just the throne room intoight. I think it's no coincidence that the water fight And I'm sure and Brendon Wayne and Latiff Crowder who got their names at the top of the cast list in the opening credits, which I cheered for. L I was so excited for. Like they deserve their flowers. They do so much work to make the Mandalorian in action helmeted feel like a character, feel like a person Having Petor's face exposed inside of that Dragon snake fight, just lend so much more emotional investment. First of all, that creature looked the best out of all the CJI creatures, but like, You know, I don't understand how his bestcar armor didn't sink him to the bottom of that that watery grave. We talked about that the living waters Mandalore. But like prior can Mving that aside pulled himself up via the roots. Yeah, he did. But like Pedro's face was important to making that sequence work so well. And then we just and then they just Tss the helmet down. And we never saw his face again. And I just think that was a huge misfyire of an opportunity to make this feel special and distinct from the TV show. Yeah. You've got your movie star. And I don't know what the negotiations are behind the screen if like Petro was just like, guys, I'll give you ten minutes, but that's it. L my whole contract says, I don't have to show up to set. so I'm not going to show up to set. R. All you want me to do You want to give me a wet bump, I gott to do waterw, like, no, thank you. So anyway, I just That was tough. and then also I was skeptical of this when David was pitching to us like all of the characters he thought were was gonna to be in the movie. And I said I did say this to you a couple of times. I was like, donon't you think they would have advertised these characters in their trailers if all these characters were in the movie? Yeah. So I I Habantheus, I would love to see him U Now we get to keep the bit going though. but I wasn't and surprised. to not see those other characters Did that matter to you that we got none of the none of the like Luke or Ahsoka or Thrawn or Caradon, God forbid or Cob Vth, etcetera in this movie. Do that matter So Yeah, I think it does matter. And I think it's The Faloni verse just feels to me as like a longt time genuine fan and admirer of his work. like it's in a real us. unsure place like lacking a confidence in terms of how to incorporate these threads. don't necessarily mind that we didn't get Ahsoka Luke and Thong. Be I think that it's very important that when those char when the Sokun Thron return, given And Booka Bobaett season two. Exactly. Yeah, given us soka season one and how that ended I think it's really important that when we return after a bazillion years of waiting for Osoka season two that we do so from a position of like assred strength that that story has been figured out. That said, this intention of the Mandoverse to build this connected universe, like I'm old enough to remember when we were talking about this like cinematic crossover event we were building toward because it was the publicly articulated intention and plan. And so much like's a little bit it's a second version of the season four becomes a movie thing where we're like, and You know, we do To be fair, we talk about the oppite like the iniverse of this a lot, which is being nimble enough to adjust in real time when somebody isn't working. Thraon didn't hit the way that they wanted Th to Exactly. So it is important, I think, to be able to adapt and say, okay, maybe we were going to do something, but we need to retool, we need to recenter. That's not a flawed instinct, I think that's actually appropriate. The question is where do we then go doing that and is the reset taking us to a better place. I think when we look at the characters we got, okay, so look let's use Navarro as an example. The return, I don't mind that this isn't cluttered and full of crossover connections, even though like Ahsoka showing up in season two of the Mandalorian, which we talked about on our prrimer pod is like one of my favorite things that's ever happened in. It was my favorite Mandalorian moment I think because it centered Grogu and Grogu and Din while also in a way that made actual like organic authentic sense incorporating a character like that I look at like going to Navarro and we don't see I mean the Ezlants are there and that's fun. but like we don't see IG. a character who we have spent seasons of television reestablishing It's just like, do you need IG in the movie? No, But to me, the only explanation for why IG is not there is what you said already, which is we don't want people to feel like they had to watch three seasons of television to understand the movie. Now, I'm torn on this because does feel in this era of the IP machines that it is prohibitive. to keep up with this stuff for people. I think we've talked about that a lot. You just said it, like I think that's true So making the story universes that people love more accessible and the barriers to entry for each new installment, like manageable is I think good. However this was a like the place that they struggled with this the most was the first season of Ahsoka. This was a conversation we had again and again and again of like, do you have to have seen rebels to enjoy Asoka? Exactly. And we kept trying to say you didn't, but I feel like they never proved that to people who hadn't seen rebels. Yes. And so like I think there, again, it's this a little bit of what feels to me like a limbao phase where like the fact that the movie is completely accessible is as a premise and a proposition, good and right. And I do not want to like advocate for theseese movies and seasons feeling like you have got to spend thirty hours of your life in order to go sit at the movies for. you just listen to a refresher podcast? sure could for business. You sure. You sure could But like at the end of the day, I do think there's a real risk of once again overcrecting where the investment in the characters to that point If it's not necessary at all then you run the risk of it not being meaningful. right I think There's a rever there's the we don't want to make people feel like they had to watch three seasons of the Mandalorian to enjoy this movie. There's that But unfortunately, the result of that is that for people who watch three seasons of the on TV shows feels like you're moving forward. If we get a fourth season You do not have to have seen this movie. No. It s you're gonna to leave these characters in the exact same place you found them. Exactly. And, you know, why would we not want to see the movie in order to go see the season, especially when you had to watch to three episodes of Book of Boook of Fett. Aain, it feels like a response to the response to that versus like a decision that makes sense and these creative merits. We look at the characters who aren't there but then what we have to do In tandem with that, it's look at the characters who are here Right? Because you can't assess these things in a vacuum. they're entwined. They're inextricable. This is a tough one. Be I love Zem. I know. Like when Zem showed up in the Mandaloria, the television series I'm like Joe andreaking out we're talking about on the pod. I'm doing a breakout for social. I'm like, this is just here we go. It's happening. These characters I love rebels, these characters who we care about so deeply are being brought not like brought from animation to live action, th that is, of course what is happening, brought to more people to enjoy That makes me glad However, I just don't I am not capable as like one of the world's chief Zeb enthusiasts of articulating a case for his presence in the movie.. And in a couple ways, right? What is he adding for Din and Grogo? L our primary figures. He's there to pick them up a couple of times and we get a joke about what took you so long. okay? That could be literally anyone.ertainly could have been Marsant Tavva, the character who basically is in the movie for thirty seconds. Yeah and his conversation with Din is the reason this movie's plot is possible. I also have to wonder, you know, you mentioned this a couple of times on the u On the prrimer pod that Favreaux has talked about like creatures being such a focus of this movie. And again, we love the Anzllen Grogster. So there's there's an argument to be made there. Puppets rule. at the same time you know, and My Paal Deave Gonzalez brought this up to me is like once we meet coin, we don't meet a single other human after that. L there are no humans after that in the movie. and that's not the end of the world, but it feels like John Favreu is like, I made the Jungle book and people loved the Jungle book. and I made the Lion King and people felt however they did about the Lion King or whatever, but he's like, can I do that in a Star Wars world and just have a lot of creatures and a helmeted guy Yeah and no human faces at all and just be a post human kind of story. And I just don't think that's what Star Wars is. So I don't I think that's completely fair and valid, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who would agree. I don't agree with that as like a core thesis, but I think as is always the case, it's about what you do with the figures when you present them. L I don't really need Ward Soig Gory Weaver's ward is like just a complete whiff, right in every respect. So like having a human being with a human face adds nothing in character. like a real character. Yes. So to go back to the z thing, it's like You run the risk of people being like, I don't know who this is Now they don't need to, but that becomes then into merit because it's like what did we learn about Zeb? When I see Zeb on the story again, I want to know what happened to Kalice. Right Be I have four seasons deep in caring about that relationship and it's two returns now where I got nothing N that front. I personally also think it that animation at CGI, you don't only know it look. Yeah, I think it find it. But just because like Zeb by by you just cannot translate very single animated character into live action. Hanoid, it is easier. but for Zeb who has this interesting physiogomy that is fun to watch in animation, I think looked really awkward and terrible inside of this movie. Similarly, like if this had been an animated adventure, the Hut stuff would have L felt way less weird than it did to try to watch this CGI version of it, you know? And I remember, I'm old enough to remember Yeah when we were mad about CGI Job with the Hutt in the special editions of the original trilogy. O. So now we're just got like we're just swarming with CGI Hutts. L I think it looks so bad. Well, I mean, I'm excited genuinely excited to talk about the Hutt stuff more because it is such a true puzzler U In general, though, I think everything you just said about like Savves and his creature and tooyatic relationship to Star Wars, which is actually something I share, so I don't really mind it, but I think the critiques are very valid I think the thing that pairs with that here that it is sort of like a negative amplifier. because if it were just that, that's one thing. But then we have the flalony part of it, which is the I create a session animated world and I want everyone to know about these wonderful characters. And he is a tremendous Animation storyteller. I fucking love those shows. He's a tremendous animation storyteller It's not working the way he is trying to wrestle that world into live action. And not only that But now with like the transfer power of whatever happening is like making that. Well that's my concern. That's why Star Wars is. Yeah. his obsession with making his animated world the world of Star Wars. Yeah. I'm worried about it because it's like I really love those shows and I really invest in those characters. So I'm like, man, if this is not like a complete hit for me then like Oh boy. And like I think, you know, you mentioned Ebo and how that actually like was kind of fun and cool. And when we see Kaibu his his his wolf pop like pick up the Anzealan and the Anzealan screch ars like, Damn like this this is actually like scary. fucking cool. Yeah It was really cool aspect of it work. Eo you don't need to have seen a second of Clone Wars to be like That's a cool bountyunter. like bad bane connection. Perfect deployment.. And Embo is R of a hut. Yeah. Embo No, Ebo is like a character design though that works perfectly 'cause we're seeing him a lot, like you love that hat. I love the hat and the ship that looks like the hat. That's so which I leaned over. I don't talk that much in the theaters, but we did talk about the hat and the ship looking identical Embo is a character design. Very good translate over from animation much more sucfully, I think than Cad Bane. Like Cat Bane, like the Cad Bane face did not like work perfectly well for me. Cad Bane from a distance looked great. But once Cad Ban got up close, it was kind of love, you know? And but Embo was was a perfect use of a of a Minor Clone Wars character with a cool design. You're scary, you look neat, you're mysterious. I'm afraid for my friends because you were here to hunt them. It's effective. And so the choice to pull that out of Clone Wars does not make me think, boy, we can't stop trying to pull things forward out of Clone Wars or rebels. But again, just to say it like for the ninetineth time, two shows I love. But the rod of the hunt thing like we talked about some of the primer This is so for people don't know Will you explain what the plot of the original Clone Wars movie is? Yes. And so like let let's go back just one wrinkle even further than that, which was like the first trailer came out and I was like, you know what? I think this trailer looks pretty good. I'm really hypy for this movie. Lets let's go As the trailers continued to come out though. Yes. And the marketing kind of continued to unfold. And then we got these little like, you know, on the on Disney plus, the special look on the Star Wars YouTube channel, Instagram, like official releases of these like one minute clips. A lot of them are very hut centric and Ceronel Ward centric and I grew concerned because one of the clips was just it was one of the early scenes in the movie where bod gives Mando the mission, right? And I was like, wait, oh no U that is literally the plot of the two thousand eight animated cinematic film The Clone Wars, which is We need our heroes to go rescue a hut and by the way and it's Rob of the hutt. It's the same hut. He's a hut L a baby. He's a little baby. So the plot of that movie it's Anakin and Ashsoka. It's Anakin and Ahsoka Obian is there. Dooku is there, Venturous is there. Robin is a little he's he's sick. they call him stinky because he smells bad, but it's like, We need our hairs to go Meet with the Hutts. It's Joba in that case, right? because he's still he's still he's still sliththerering. He's still rolling. Rescue the Hut There's this stretch on Teth. There's some interesting action. That movie's like pretty bad, but it sets up a lot of great stuff to fo. Iso was gonna say, people didn't like that movie. Exactly. It's not even that like this is the same movie. it's the same movie. That movie is like one of the single worst stretches of the overall. same story from a movie that did not work. And I understand the impulse to have a do overver on a story that you did that didn't work and can I do it again and can I crush it this time? The answer was no. right. It's not just even though the doing over of Centering Rada, he needs to be rescued. Our heroes are going to go rescue him. The Hutts and a power in the galaxy, but then the idea of the reveal of like who was actually working for whom, you know a Dooku plot in this movie frrankly, I think like borderline embarrassing, like we've built up to a scene where Ward says, turnurns out we couldn't trust the Huntts. It's like no shit. Everyone who's watching your movie has watched Star Wars for their entire lives. and they know that even if you don't. And so it's like an incredibly inert storytelling choice. But to the point you just made that like, I'm gonna get a doover, I don't know,'s makes me nervous, because it's like Star Wars can't be guided by one person's desire to center their personal favorites and or make sure that the people who missed why it was a good and right thing that people should love like didn't feel that way about it the first time. That can't be what Star Wars is. Now, I would like to say once again that I think Ggu is just like M maybe the most impactful creation of the century. I'm being sincere. L I just I don't agree with you, but I do believe I find I find the hold that he has over to me over me to be like retty unmatched. Ag. So there was a lot in the movie that I enjoyed and had fun watching. I'm very concerned about things the things that don't work in it aren't just worrying inside of the movie, they become worry where we are in the manaiverse I will say, and I've said this before and I'll just reiterate it, sitting next to you and hearing your delight at every single Babel and coup and earwiggle and shuffle and all and like I just him so much every little hair that just got ruffled on his head and stuff like that. looks great loved it. and I loved hearingjoy. So like genuinely, that did matter to me Um We've gotten a little out of hand, but let's like just arbitrarily now go into our dive, which we kind of already did. We've already done it. We'll just we'll just keep doing it This episode is brought to you by Nas Energy Every oce of dirt, sweat and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard fought place They're all jammed inside every can of NSA energy performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage and pedal to the metal human horsepower For the streets, go ahead, crack open a can of Nas energy and get after it. This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile homeome runun derbies right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and off sports baseballs Biggest sluggers along with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia. L Duncin Yeah M Pence, Matt Fast Kurzian, a whole bunch of people And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. He swings. History. I'm interested this is who Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Parks. In Philly, watch the T moobile Home rununs be liive on Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific Looking to see what's happening around your home Ring's battery doorbell helps you track packages and see who's at your door in real time The Outdoor Cam pllus protects your yard at night with a wide field of view and clearer retinal two K video, or upgrade to four K cameras and doorbells with retinal vision for ultra clear zoom in detail. Your door, your yard, your home With Ring, it's protected. Shop cameras, doorbells, and more at ring d. com now All right now, here's the deep dive. we'veready done most of it. We'll just like roll back through again in case we have other things to say. So the first seion I'm Naming Vesley. Let's just start not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love. Puppets. greatreat. Yeahah, I'm going out of order. deal with it. o. G going in the N Zeland. We've already mentioned knock out stars of this. their're puppets.. It's an incredible year for puppets. Let's talk about it. N of the Seven Kingdoms. That's right Projectil Mary. Oh, Rocky Dh Grogu and the Anzelin, the best. Fantastic Are there gonna to be puppets in the Odysdy can only hope Darered a dream. Dare a dream. Dare to dream. Weve seen Skilla, but what does Turpptus look like? I don't know. G Russia find out. Maybe it'll be a puppet. I think this was really Truly excellent. I do think that there's like a lack of again, even I think Grogu had the most Gr B's character beats more so certainly than Din as we talked about I think even even still. Well, we got to see Grogu move into like the next phase of maturation in a way that I found really cool to watch You know, he's doing things on his own, he's making decisions on his own. He is communicating in like a much more advanced way. He's always had the couz in babbelles, but he's responding. Thank you. He's like his rumps and his babbelles are like Social match to the words he would be saying. Somebody's nodding. Yeah When I got plenty of pushback as I knew I would on my like, Grogo is an accessory take, right? A lot of our listeners were like It's a scandalous take. They're like, fuck you die in hell, right? Okay. Oh no. Well, that's not okay. Don't say that You know, don't say in the comments in the emails or whatever, people are like, what about Chewbacca? what about Art two, you know, et cetera. Like theseese are like non verbal characters, you know, but like pep some bopes Here's the difference Han can understand Chheewy. and so I understand Grogo. Great Din need to understand Gr He Do does understand him. Not really. Denn has had been a bad dad over years and I gotta say I actually two things. Let me finish. please. to Chewy. And so we know what Chewy saying because Han's like, yeah, I agree with you buddy, like blah blah, blah The beeps and boops. Yeah, C three PiO can respond to. You know what I mean? Like you need to have if the babbles and coups are what we're getting. If the grunts and gros and stuff like that, as expressive as he is, I need d to be like, you're right This is dangerous or like you're right, blahah blah. L use that old Star Wars trick to get this non verbal character to have more of a presence inside of the storytelling. I do think I think they carry on like conversations. I do that we don't see. No, that we witness on the screen as we watch their story. I mean, I think that they're they're communicating. I think especially in this film, but to this point, like when Grogu is doing things and didn't respond. like they' they're It's meing you don't not that switch, not that so. There's a lot of them and not that I told him sit down like he's learning, right? So I will say I just Even Damon Lindelaffgh agreed with me. For a lot of this movie, Yeah, Grogo is an accessory. He is a backpack parrot on a pirate shoulder. He is just like line to the he's along for the ride U alsoso, why does Dyjarn not have like a baby Bjorn? There's no like harness I guess it's just the freedom ofion for like ye your life to a shoulder. it's tough for me to watch. Anyway, that being said, I did lean over to you during the Grogu alone stretch and said, You win this one. Yeah. He is a care in that stretch. Yeah He He's a character. He's the main character. He's maybe the only character. It reminded both Joy and I were reminded of a couple avatar The last Airbnder episodes, Office Last Days or Zuko alone was like when we were released. So we've been calling this section Ggu alone, you know? Itantast Really good. I mentioned the Dark Crystal. I was also reminded of U the bear which is a movie I keep bringaking up on podcasts, but it's like a fairly obscure eighties movie that just followed this bear. It was like shot like a nature documentary, but it was the story of a bear who loses his mom and that is just to adventure through the world. And he is nonverbal. and it was just like You know, there's no like voiceover. It's just you're watching this young cub explore in the world and it is like extremely powerful and extremely good until he tries shrooms and then it's very upsetting. But like, It almost makes me angrier at the rest of the movie how good. Oh yeah, This Rgu alone stretch is. Yeah. I could have I honestly could have done without the Yoda stick. I did not think we need it. I thought that was like a brge too far. But like the physical comedy of him trying to like jam Din into the mud hut that he built Wonderful. incredible the relationship The near verbal relationship that he builds with Gatoria, Gatori, whoever this person choose to pronounce his name. Loved when he called him L little Traveler. That was great. Stehven M Kinley Henderson, great vocal performance in this. like I saw his name in the opening crreditits. I was like, I didn't know he was in this movie. And then I was like, and then I heard his voice. I was like, there you are. G. like really good Fearing for him when Embo is hunting him like All of that stuff was just so tremendous. Yeah, it just made me so much more disappointed in the rest of the movie. Yeah, I think Grogu deserves a better movie around him, no question. I think Din you know certainly does. Grogu routinely throughout this movie in little ways and big ways, is making decisions. And that was a really fun and cool thing to watch because he is like sometimes those he is behaving and doing something because Din sends him forward, right? Crawl up through the vent and open the door and let me in Because it's a character Pedro Pascal is playing, though certainly not in that moment. It's fun to think of like him hoisting, Joel histing Ellie up and stuff like that, right? All our favorite Lone Wolf and cb pairings Grogu learning on the job from Din. this is where again, like the kind of like there's there's cohesion, but a lack of forward momentum because you have it tracks that they're out doing this thing. They're hunting imperial remnants, which is where we left them, right? Like Din going to Carstantva and saying, you know, I've got the little one now I need to be more selective in my assignments. Let me do this work for the new Republic. I thought Limberg made a really interesting point in his write upp for the ringer. com with a great website, which was basically like Um, too much maybe of like sliding inin into what the Caradoon Ranger of the New Republic role was supposed to be because like in ending season three saying I wantan to go hunt these imperial remnants because fuck the Empire, that makes sense. Didn't taking the assignments, that makes sense the like leap toward the where we are at the end of like, well, kind of you are just like working for the N Republic, which Din was like really critical of as a governing body and a force for good or for better, right? There's like a little bit of story missing there. And it feels like again, a little bit of the product of like, well,'re we don't know what to do about the like Mandalorian Creed, this is the way aspect of this anymore Part of what's so interesting and cool about Grogu overall and the story overall, them choosing each other, Grogu saying fuck you to Luke and going back to Dan, the shirt you've got the shirt, wonderful. But just the fact that Grogu is a Jedi and a mandalorian and rejects the idea that he can only be one or the other. He's going to be both in his own way is amazing. I don't know that we really felt any of that the movie any of that R And like Favrever has been talking about that in the promo. he's like He's a Mandalorian and a Jedi, which makes him so unique And I'm like, it does, but we didn't get that. He could have like the breastplate is, you know, like the The fact that he is a Mandalorian or the fact that he is a Jedi, like how is that involved in anything we've seen? And how is that any different from where we met himight, you know, Yeah and the fact that like he has all of his armor because we saw him in the armor for his Rndell and he has his wrist rocket because of the dart training with, you know, with the with the the covert. like All of that is there and we understand why they're out on these adventures and G is like in the face of physical trapping. Yes, in the face of the physical tra actually because he's his journeys and supposed to go learn and do these things, but we're not moving forward actively in terms of like them really king about that with each other and like what it means. And I think because Grogo had these opportunities when Din was taken to basically team up with the Anzelans and decide to go. He suits up. He puts on his wristrocket, puts his bombs in his satchel, he tightens his armor just like Daddy taught him and he heads out to go find his dad. The Anzelans leave, he decid to say like he makes all these decisions. He goes to hunt for fish He builds the hut to protect Din. L, but Din, I think one of the most dramatically compelling things about the show to date has been Din. grappling with the different aspects of his identity, right? like the rigidity of the creed pull the Groo has on his heart And so you have something that is so rich And I was intrigued from the trailers because we have these lines and these ideas, you know, then we hear it in the movie, like the old protect the young and then the young protect the old. This is the way and that exchange about how Grogu was going to live for centuries and centuries and centuries, we hope, protect him at all costs, and Dinn won't. And so he will be without him. And so you have this opportunity, we see that gl canan I read this quote from Favreau, right So This to Favro is the thesis of this movie, right? It's time for Grogo to go on the field and for dad to show him the ropes. As a dad, it taps into the sense of the hero as a protector. you're trying to create a safe world that you're leaving behind for the next generation. He won't always be there to protect the kids, so he's got to prepare him to make sure he's going to be okay I do not feel Incidental. Mando gets poisoned and because he's poisoned and incapacitated and like Healing the flesh wound does not heal him.. Grogo is left alone. Yes. So it's incidental that Grogo is left alone. Do not feel That thesis is fulfilled at all, even though there are nods to it in the things that people are saying But I do not feel like the thesis of this movie is that. And it feels to me like Because we're talking about there's no stakes, no plot, no all of this in this movie, Favreau has concocted a reason for this movie to exist. When really what he just made was like a Rip Rar and adventure movie with a lot of like CGI fighting and and like you know, ships and stop motion animation and all this sort of stuff like that. And but he's trying to give it Yeah that the movie itself does not carry. Well I think there is like a kind of undeniable aspect of fear here because we've now had it happen a couple of times. and it's like a safe it almost feels like maybe safer inside of a movie where you don't even have the passage of one week in a streaming series to wonder if they'll be reunited and to wonder how long you'll have to watch them apart. And it's, you know, there's a dissonance because like thing the single thing people love most about the Mandalorian and now the Mandalorian and Grogu, is the Mandalorian and Grogu together. It's Dan and Grogu together. It's that Bond and that duo. ever in terms of dramatic Chip Right? And the idea of putting your characters in new situations seeeeing them apart in real time because it primes us for the inevitable, which is that no matter what No matter what their story brings when Din is alive, the bulk of Gorgu's life will be them apart Like it's so interesting to allow us to glimpse that. I think when Din wakes up, Gorgu wakes up, he's alone right? he nestled in his little cook incredible. Like my cat does. That's like part of why I love. it's just so halo coded. It's like I just can't it's I know. You can't even talking about it. but like makes me think of him Gobu goes out. And Din is like, what's up, kid says the line that we'd heard in the trailer and then that's it. There's like, That's such an incredible opportunity to like have him come sit down bring him on his lap and like To him about the fact that we could test also I love you. You're so beautiful and I'm sorry Um, I really think a lot of this would be accomplished because Pedro Pascal is a tremendous actor if we could see his face. his little face again. When Grego was lifting up his helmet to feed him the little the the poison healing balm, the little the goo was thinking of Alice Rivers, you know, and her little her H andhul mash upps There's an opportunity there for a conversation between them that could have been so meaningful, justust like the ones we had seen with like asoka and Grogo when they're communicating. or like you raised Ellie and Joel, like, you know, the stuff that We have seen Petter Pascal do as a gruff caretaker of a small love in a way you can't understand. There's it's not just those dialogue moments that are very important to us. the glances. It' it's the non verbal acting that Petipascull is very good at that we don't get to see because he's got that fucking helmet on. And I do love the helmet. It looks iconic, but we need those moments where we see his his on when he needs to fight like Racketeering st we need to see him like worried about, you know, we need to see his fucking face. Yeah. We just do Yeah. And we're not going to. L that's just not it's not gonna to happen. It's a But a lot of a lot of what They're hoping to accomplish that depth cannot be communicated merely in a head tilt and it needs to, we need to see someomeone's face reacting to something. That is what human storytelling is about. So I think it's very important. baby The baby is expressive. I mean, his eyes, his cheeks, his ear flaps. and there are things Din does sometimes with the helmet on that give us that the voice, you know, because Pedro's voice is so expressive. He's doing as much as he can. Even when just the arm, Din's arm kind of scoops up not only Grogu from the water, but all Z, it's there are wayss here. It' so much of this is the balance. like we time for those moments because we have to go right to the next fight and the next chase sequence, etceter. So yeah, I also In addition to wanting to see Din like struggle a little bit more, you know even with the helmet coming off, I mean, it's such a familiar beat now at this point to like, well now, okay, well, I got to kill you becauseuse you see my face but I'm like, do we need to go back to season three of the Mandalorian in this respect, which was such a miss? No, The entire plot of season three of the Mandalorian hinged on him needing to go bathe in the living waters to redeem himself because of violating the creed. And yeah, like we get to the point toward the end where the armor says to Bo L like Boatan, it walks between worlds and you have more than one way to be a Mandalorian. And finally at last, our characters make some progress in accepting that people can choose to live their lives differently Den still believes in the creed. So like It weirdly was too chill of a reaction actually for somebody pulling off his helmet, given like how central that has been previously to his arc. I don't want like the same exact rep, but it didn't totally track either. Can I talk about my Most frustrating inconsistency in this movie. Absolutely. That's a great one, though like his reaction to the helmet coming off U Ggo in the Force Okay, so we get force healing, which we Al love to see U Animal empiracing, right? He takes over the mind of the wolf dog which is something that you predicted would happen, but it was very short lived, which is something you sort of like commented on at the time. Hoist Rot of the hut up out of the pit. That seems like it took a lot of energy. right? You didn't even have to take a nap afterwards, but it was just a lot, right Yeah U And a flimsy little brass bird cage cannot bend the bars to get out of containment when the Gladiator pit fight is happening. Like I was so shocked to see Grogu so easily damzed and then later like revealed to be a strong force user. What What are we doing there I was confused in real time in the Deeric like holo chess gladiator scene as well because It certainly is a moment where he can and should use the force. However, I guess like the only The only thing I can toss out is One, he's still learning, right? He's fifty three ish, so he's like five You could say that. I don't think that really holds because he's basically on instinct using the force. like he sometimes some snacks. Sometimes very much Yes, of course The fucking Connel words stopping Grogu from eating a snack is just an outrage. I would put that number two on the list of outrageous things though. Num one D needs to stop saying heal. Oh my God. too Grogu. what that upset you so much. I actually find that like Galling and gross. This is my version of Joe on Survivor saying wasn't appropriate. N not appropriate. Disgusting, disgusting That's just weird. It's like he's that he's your son. He's like heal heal D didn't like that and did not like Word, not letting him eat. Everybody just needs to let Rgu eat. He's a growing boy. He needs his nutrients. We've got his favorite cookies here today because we are thoughtful caring guardians for our beautiful boy You know, whether it's like in very deliberate, I'm going to use the force to push Dad forward into the mud hut that is big enough, very cute, or okay, just boom, I'm going I'm going to go and D didn't told me to help Rada. so I'm going to use the force to move the levers. He does it that way orr if it's like just uninstincted, I've got to okay Yeah, we've seen him use it in enough different ways that there's no reason he couldn't use it there. I guess it's like they're The threat is too big around them. you're t dancing and I appreciate the time daning. I don't think it m sense either. I'm trying to like what the logic of the mov movie could an explanation for it. The reason that it doesn't make sense actually to me is less about Rogu not freeing himself. even though that also doesn't make sense. Because I think it would have been logical and cute for him to basically sneak out. But the thing that really doesn't make sense is that he's not using the force to try to help Din 'ause that's just can. just how did we on Mudhorn in the first place? if they had a special force dampening cage that they put him in, like R like you know' handcuffs like sure, but they didn't. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. It's very strange. seeing him use the force healing again because of course, he used it in season one episode seven to fororese all Grief Carga. We realized in hindsight that he had been trying to use it to heel in earlier in that season. that in real life in real time was you know, beare days away from Ronie Skywalker when we saw the Ray Kylo force heealing used Now we've seen it again. you know, So this this power Grogu is very powerful in the force. the M the MD count is off the charts as we know The fact that we're cooking for Seal is, I think going to continue to like be relevant in the story moving forward the like Pull the poison out versus just closing the wound thing You know, he's a baby he's learning. The Animal Bond was really interesting to me because like I think that it seems so clearly relevant with Grogu specifically because you know, we saw him with the Rancor and Book of Boba Fet. We had the Pgal moment where they're in hyperspace and he is like observing with and almost communing with the pergl as they pass by at the beginning of season three. It certainly felt like across season three that we were setting up this Grogu will be the one who rides the Mythosaur to like unite all the Mandalorians. F feels like that's where we're heading For Grogu, I like it. And so seeing it bear fruit here, although it didn't hold was like not surprising Once again, though, I do feel compelled to note that this is a Fononey preocccupation Because this was really central for Ezra too includcluding with the Purgl,f course, that's how Ezra ends up banishing Thrwn, right? But the Loth cats and the Loth wolves and the Frnoxs I think it's pronounced that whole stuct, which the mall kind of like weaponizes, right. This aspect of like, I think it's a really interesting force power because you can use it to like calm and commune. And like as Kan trained Ezra, that's really about like peace and connection. like a beautiful idea of how you think about the force. When it's weaponized and it goes wrong for Ezra It's really like control and taking over the mind, which is bad. So I think it's an interesting power to continue to see what like impulse Gorgu has and how far character we saw Force Choke Cadon on Ininct in season one, takes it But I do kind of, again, I like how much of what we see is going to be like another version of a thing we've played with before. with other characters in the Falononey Toy box or a new thing entirely A fascated to see how that goes in the future some I have some hot based questions for you from my listener, Emily. o Here's Emily's and these were only some of Emily's questions, to be honest with you Emily says Does Rot a slush stinky sill of trauma for the first time he was kidnapped? And that is why he was so content with staying kidnapped Where was Stinky during the rise of the First Order Since they're both gonna conveniently live until five hundred, Rada and Grogu spinoff show post first order when. I need more of them playing on the beach together. Do any of these questions inspire a response from you You know, I did think that The Ra Grogu moments were cute. L playing in the oceanzing together. Yeah. L that stuff was I thought actually quite cute. And I understand the impulse behind it, which is to take a character who reminds us of a famous character in Star Wars. Now, in Rada's case, it's literally his dad Java. in Grogu Java. be it could literally be as we speculated before, like an actual offspring Just the reminder, the fact that like when he meets Luke, when he talks to a soka, it's like you remind me of someone, right? This kind of shadow that looms over you and who you are, both to the people in the story and to us at home. But like de lifespan. But like dear God, Vallie Rubin. Some of the worst writing I've ever seen in my entire life is when Rada in two separate scenes, says the exact same boring thing which is like, I'm not my dad's son. I'm my own my own man man And it's not why he saying I'm my own man A own hut. Am my own hut. Like what is he talking about hut? It's very strange. But it's the exact same scene. Yeah. o yeah.. back to back. It's so confusing. And this happens a couple of times in this movie in a way that felt to me almost like The Netflix exec instructions that everyone's going to be second screening your TV show or your movie. so you need to repeat things so that in case people weren't paying attention, they got it. Oh You see that in a theatrical release of a Star Wars film is so depressing to me. I monumentally. I thought this was very strange as well. We got it with Johnu with Lord Johnu quite a bit as well. Like in the scene at the salt ration bar And there was some stuff in that stretch that was kind of fun and cool. Marty curcy we crushed it. Selt's currency was a fun idea It was a fun idea. It felt so clunky to like hear these characters just repeat this thing and it's like we're trying to give you a sense of this place without like totally giving you a sense of this place. And then coin, Lordjanu repeats I got I feel like for at least four times in this in that exchange with Din basasically an offer for him to just please consider fighting in the pits. The people would love to see a fabled Mandalorian warrior come fighting in the pits. He says it like four times. Then you have the Rada repetitions that you noted Bizarre in general, but particularly u heavy in their impact as as like a ham fisted bit of dialogue and just scripting because there's so little dialogue in the movie plot, but also like people don't talk that much in the movie. So when there are only so many lines and exchanges and like six of them are repetitions of things we've heard, those same characters say that's like quite weird. I thought on the Rata front in general, this was one of the weirdest It's hard for me to think of a weirder use of Jeremy Allen White than this. He is one of our most we've praised Grogu motive for being aotive and expressive. Jeremy Allen White, that is like the whole You watch Carm too Petro too. You watch Carmi, you watch you watch Lip on shameless or on the barret. It's like What he does with him a late fan, the way his eyes glisten and it's like We were deprived of that completely. and his voice is like modulated and a. hired literally anyone to really voice that character. There was no reason to hire Jeremy Allen White. That was so bizarre. Yeah. But yeah, let's take Some of our most expressive actors and then not let them do anything. Meanwhile With love and respect to Johnny Cone, an actor I have like no familiarity with as Johnnu Coin The actor's name is Johny Coin. The character' name is Johnu Coin. Yes. Moy, should we come up with Star Wars names for each other that are just basically our own names? Sure ye That is wild, Johnny Coin I was like friends with John Favreau? L is what is happening here? What would your name be? Let's see. So Joanna Robinson It would be like changing Johanna to Jonah. Yeah or JO Joe to just JOE Joe and Robinson to Like Robererson I should be a droid, like JO. like J JO Roberon R And it's just o Jo. Jo Joe. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. consonsider it your mean it's hard to beat Darth Darth Mal. like there's really not nothing I can do. Hobbins Drag is to Dail. com. if you have a better suggestion. Star Wars names for us that are basically just our names because that's what they did with Johnn Couin But Johnny Coinn. Yeah Not very good in this mo. Like I don't think John Coin is a great character at all He's just kind of there. I kind of liked his perp walk when he's back in Adelphi. likeike his insolent perp walk was kind of fun. You know what? like that like drove me crazyally just that they brought him there this is your base. What are you doing? What if he escapes? or what if he has a way to communicate with the other imperial remnants? Now they can all go find a Delphi base. That was bizarre So the coin character and so we have two imperial remnants. We haven't really talked about the opening. Oh yeah, there's a cold open that's basically just what the trailer was. Yes, yes. Um So those two characters, those two imperial warlords We have of course seen in the Mandalorian before. We saw them in the Shadow Coucil stretch in the pen uulttimate episode of seeason three with Moff Gideon. that was there's Hux is there, Pellies there. That was like a kind of fun and interesting scene at the time. Thwn and the spectre of Throm. But like We took random little holograms from the Mandalorian show and made it like Yeah, it's strange because it's like again, it really does sort of reek of Okay, the thrawn connection that was supposed to kind of tie all this together as we build toward, you know, as we as we use these stories to continue to, much as Clone Wars did for the prequels flesh out and explain how we got from point A to point B, right Um I think because both of those imperial warlords were featured in the trailers, it seemed like that would be a more central continuation of a core aspect of the plot, which is we can't let these relics of the Empire linger in the galaxy and work to restore a thing that they think in real time will be the Empire, but we know will become the first order. Right're ten years We're about we're roughly T years after the Battle of Yavin and we're roughly ten years before the First Order begins takes over but really begins according to the ABY'. Yes. And so we're right in the midpoint of the defeat and then the like reforming of it. Right. Right. Yeah. I just don't think it felt, you know, the way that Damon characterized it like a Bond cold open, right? Like Bond mid mission, which is where we find the Mandalory at the beginning of this movie. And so it's it's I mean, it's it's a funny scene the way that he is like bullying all these people and they're like, he went that way. We fucking hate this guy. go get him. Like that's funny. And there's a lot of like dazzling action there for, you know, if that's what you're coming to the Mandalorian Grogu for, you know, and if you want to see familiar shapes and different troopers and all this sort stuff like that like our immperial loal's all it's all there didn't was not invested in it at all. You know what I mean? And like you know, other than what Grogu was doing. Grogu was killing it once again. I thought it was I thought it was fun one of the more successful set pieces and action stretches of the film, I think It looked really cool to see it in a movie theater in MAax, you know, even just like the when they're riding the walker over the cliff. and if you're watching it on the big screen, you really feel like you're going with them. the pull to the dark side and this was Star Wars always. and this was also present in the pursuit of Rada and Grogu very cute leading the charge again. He's the one leading the way not didn now jumps into the little cradle that has has been abandoned by and it seemes off You're sort of like, o, you see already how this will become an amusement park like a steam ride where you're like almost being ported ono the. How do you feel about Sikari as a we're doing Chicago, but we've called it Siari. Is that the Jhnu coin of planlanet names? I guess it might be. It's interesting because like, you know, we talked about And One of the real misses of Season three, which was the Jack Back Lizzo episode where Den had his big like Droyed regression and Dan and Grogu were separated in a way that iss like, Oh, it's actually bad sometimes when they're separated. It's not always like a ret rewarding character thing Um, you know, the the other thing, of course, that was just a huge miss in season three was the let's just go spend all this time with Pershing and canan on Coruscant. So like Again, I'm to say why was there not more of the continued story when the continued story has sometimes really been off is like a little bit tricky. but the bladeunner the blladeerunner kind of visual aspect of that we talked about in episode six we were like, oh, they're trying to a bladeunner thing with even just the pursuit and the chase and everything. I don know likeike sometimes I thought that I thought Marty Scorsese, who has you know, made no bones about shitting all over Marvel and then decided to be in the mandatory Ggo that this is the Star Wars that he's in. Pretty strange. That said, I thought Hugo kind of landed as a character. I agree. Entertertaining and really w. I agree. And that flat meat sandwich which, by the way, on the subtle Easter egg front A literal egg, the the mudhorn egg with the hairy egg, you know, putting the yoke on Gro G' sandwich. And I was like, port us back to the clan Mudhorn Oions for these guys. C Core was amazing there on that plat. Yeah Can I go back to you mentioned season three episode three of the Mandalorian? Yes Um Convert. Yes sort of universally derived episode The write of that episode is No Clore and No Clore is the third build writer on this movie. So they too they took the writer of the most reviled episode of the Mandalorian and had him work on this. Mfy And I I get it. so confusing to me when there are beautifully written episodes of the Mandalore in that exist. Gorgeous. It did also make me think we would be doing more of the new Republic First Order stuff, which is here is a framing for how Den is sent on his adventures. you know, the looking for the ace of Staves, the Ace of Staves. But like we don't really, you know, you mentioned the time frrame for the firstirst Order and like to think about where we are plotting these points and the the BBYs the ABYs like twenty one ABY and twenty nine AB ABY for key first order dates and then thirty four ABY for Force Awakens Boy, we've got a lot of story to cover still if we're gonna keep fleshing that out from now to then. And I just don't want to. Yeah. So then it's like, well let's find other cool fun things to do with Din and Grgu that don't just feel like Rod of the Hut is here for no reason. You mentioned the score in Chikari. Is there anything else you want to talk about before we get to the Livig Gardson score which I loved A I' going to end on her Let's see see anythingthing else. I mean, I guess the twins you know, on the hut front just N we're not only porting things from the Clone Wars, we're porting things from the Book of Puba Fet too And you know, on a repetitious storybeat front, like the let's go challenge Boba on tattooine because we can't have any threat to our like Prime syyndicate M and then here, Rada, we can't have a threat to the hold for the Hut crown Like we just have to be able to do something a little more fresh than this? It feels In a story world as big as a galaxy far, far away, It's actually genuinely impossible that there's not a newer fresher story to tell. I did think seeing the Hutts on Nah Hutsa, which we've been to Nut on in the animated verse and the idea of like the swampy planet and Hutt space and the Hutt council and stuff like that is interesting. Zero the Hutt is an animated character who is like deranged and like fascinating to watch in animation.'s always a miss when Huttss are back in the story or anything like that. I did think it was pretty wild to get not a miss in animation. Yeah, and it could be quite fun in animation The best live action deployment was interesting to just see the movement of like the rolling in the gladiator stretch Fascinating. But really it was the like, oh my god for a minute, we're back in the bells of the pleasure dan. felt like we were in hot D for a second. panning the hallways and you're just getting Oy after Ogy, after orgy. Tell me more about that. I'm interested. I'm not gonna lie. I'm interested in learning more about that. I would watch that. You know, for the kids, for the children. I have some notes for the new Republic on their bombing technique. You know, they come in and they're like, well, it's the D din's like, we're gonna jump out. Yeahah, lock on me on you are you sure? Okay almost I would describe as like an ADU right next to the main structure that they don't bomb at all. It's like what if someone's still in there? That's it. That's all we're gonna to do very strange The score was amazing. I thought it was genuinely a lecture. The score is incredible. You can listen to it on Spotify wherever you listen to music Grogu's worldld, which is the track, you know, because mainly the score is just a reworking of the fantastic Mandalorian theme. You know, Lavid Gordin is just reworking his' absolutely gangbusters. And it was interesting to hear You know, like This is a debate I've been seeing online where people are saying, many people are saying, some people are saying Is this the first Star Wars score. John Williams lightight motifs in it at all present even in Rogue one. And so like, is this the first time we're just getting a pure Ludig Gornson joint without playing with some of those? And then I' people can hear these things better than I can. Some people are like, oh, I hear a little bit of this in this track or whatever. So I'll be interested to hear like that conversation develop. Mostly though evenven with like, you know, we get the additional synth stuff and all the sort of stuff like that This is the Mandalorian Grogu or the Mandalorian theme reworked. and especially the end credits, this isn't on the as far as I can tell, this is not on the that's been released, but I was really digging the end credits We got like a jaunty like ragtime like manando Grogu like it was just like a bunch of like, let's try it in a different genre, like Mandalorian theme, I thought was really fun. Grogu's world in terms of like a new track to listen to, I thought was the real standout extraordinary Sif. It's all I mean budd. It all comes back to Grogo, you know, just let him sit there and eat Mantal mix Watch sports And that's another moment that that Mally leaned over to me. just like Omega. She's like Omega's favorite snack When Bro go eating the mantalics at the cl That' another better way to connect to like, okay you want people who have watched Bad Batch and love Bad Batch to be like, oh, the animated versse Falonia have rised. Like, cool do that, you know, Just use some cracker jacks. Did you like seeing a razor crest again Did you miss a racor crst? Sure. More of an appropriate family vehicle, you know, than the sportsan. Should Peter Prescal ever go near a Gadiator pit again That's a really good question. No It's a really good question. Well So sometimes the performance is electric, but his head ends up being exploded like a grape It's it's three times now. Yeah. One of the performances was mesmerizing. It just didn't end well for the character. And then the other two times, it's real. I say Pedro, No more. When Grogu went inside these stop motion guard droids, did you think about Antman shrinking down and going inside of a? I was thinking about Innerpace. something. Also, you know, as I was thinking about the Jim Henson movies, I know you haven't seen Labyrinth that this is very similar to There are these guards at the gates of the Goblin King's castle that like turn into these ic giant things and it takes one of our this little dog who's one of the like band of heroes like gets in and drives, I think it's the dog mayaybe it' someone. mayaybe it's Hogle. I'tember who does it. But one of the good guys gets in and like starts driving the mech. So you know, we're doing a labyrinth homage. I'm not mad about that. And the and the fact that they use stop stop motion animation, like Si was really dragging on for me, so like I wasn't having the best time, but I was delighted to see the fil tippet sort of like stop motion animation technique being used there. So stop motion. veryery cool The use of miniatures like with the ship, veryery cool. obviously the puppets, these things that harken back to the soul of OG Star Wars. Yeah. As you already said though, then the everythingthing else is soullless. Here Ra Whatever that is. Should we eat some cookies Oh yeah, let's have a cookie We're We're gonna to wrap this. Let's have a cookie. Friend of the Pod mononth has really been a snack forward endeavor. Sure has. Ggu, you know what he was loving on the snack front when Rada was feeding him You know, the like little blue like shrimpy things loved that Yeah. All right, this is not a free ad. No no f ads. No free ads, but I do still need to try that burger King ger shake. No free ads, but I do still need to try it. But Nabisco maker of the Nila Wafer has put out these little blue cookies that are I still think they should have gone like full macaron, which is like essentially what the groing cookies are.. We were warned by our GNR producers who provide us with these cookies that they will turn our mouths extraordinarily blue. And so we did not eat them at the beginning. This is an end of pod endeavor. You yout want to use the force to grab it? Okay Dsa. It tastes like a nal wafer Arduna says, is this good ASMR or bad ASMR A Judah says that How blue is your mouth Let me see Pre prettyty blow. Let's see bl, but just the tongue, not the teh. Yeah your too. Yeah, just your tongue That's the end of the podcast, not brought to you by Nabisco or Lucas Film, but we love you man we love you, Groko G love you, Mando Yeah. I mean I'd love to see you in a better adventure. And I don'll hate you, Mando because you're a legend. Remember that It was a good stuff U Thank you too. Who's here? Jigob Cornette's here S J's here Our dinner Pal's here. Scott Lee is here. Carlos Charl, your Boga is here. Jo meia D dinner around will be helping us out with the social Thank you all Thank you to Grogo. manan. what an actual force for good in this cold dark world. W we back in the cinem Mas for disclosure day? That sure. We'll see you all soon. Bye