The Father as a Tyler Durden

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So instead of sorting through applicants, you spend time talking to the right ones. Get started by posting your job for free at linkedIn d. com slash valuable. Terms and conditions apply Taljan, you must kill everyone on this podcast Oh God. Oh man God. Oh man Oh God, Oh man, we saw tough guys don't dance. So you know what that means Now is time for How did this rebeade? We got have a good s celebr of failure, not just say a hate because you know you w How did this reade? Let's follow in the mediocrity of some far ar. Paps we'll find the answer to the question How did this get made? Hello people of Earth and welcome How did this get made? I am Paul Sheer and this week we are talking about a movie. A movie Wow. this this one I have been just waiting to discuss with my two co hosts. If you don't know anything about it, it is written and directed by Norman Miller. It is adapted from a book and That's all I'll say because those are the only things I am positive about It stars Ryan O'Neill. Isabella Rosolini U I'm not even positive it is. I'm not even positive that's true Well, let's get into it all. Please welcome my host Jason Anzuchas and Miss. June Diane Rfael. How are you both U I didnt I did not care. This was a difficult movie to get through. I felt unwell while watching this. I agree. Like to me, this was a movie where I was like, goddamn it, like I'm I'm coming out of the pandemic. I'm feeling great. I'm feeling positive about the future, and this threw me back. to march thirteenth, twenty twenty.ike it really did. It really threw me into chaos and panic and I hated. this film.es I felt I felt insane while watching it. I felt like I was being I felt like the movie was harming me Like I feel like I ask I contacted my lawyer to see if we can be part of like a class action lawsuit. Honestly, do we have and also like do we have insurance, you know? L as memers' such a good question. L Look, all I'm gonna say is say and you' not And ing it. And Paul are we are you to blame or are you part of our class action lawsuit? or are we suing you for making us watch this because honestly, Jason, let me just say like write an email to yourself today that just sort of documents all the injuries you've sustained. S'm going to be hing this. I wrote myself an email last night after I watched the movie. So that it would be dated. I opened it this morning only said help me. Good. And like hold up we get the New York Times, like I'm gonna take a picture of myself holding it up Yeah and do a little j. like a hostage. Proof of life. It's a proof of life. L night You know, and this is how I feel today happened to me. You two sound like a bunch of people on the discord like, o, this movie, I didn't like it N been on show is called I'm not aware. never The show is called How did this Get Made? notot thank God this was made. People are shocked when they're like, Oh, this movie wasn't good. No shit. When did you check in on it? By the way, just so you both know, there is a Zuus zone in the discord where people just post memes of you and there's a dive zone in there. So a lot of a lot of chat a lot of things going on in there. Yeah. I'm sure there's you know, I'm sure there's lots of great stuff going on on the discord. I just I just haven't goone on it especially if there's a bunch of complainers complaining about the choice. Oh people I might go on the discord now to be part of the cacophony of voices saying Why did you choose this movie, Paul? Why did you me watch this one hour and fifty minutes? Well, that's his own poem of insanity aggry about. And that's the thing Paul, you know. Yes Paul you know. You know. Yeah I handle pretty much anything when it's hour and twenty minutes. Yes. Yes, I do know I can't do and what I won't do is watch an hour fifty this was at You took a weed gummy before you started. So you really put you really, you really put an obstacle in front of you. When you took that weed gummy, I looked at you as like, Oh, well this is This was also and I don't know if this I think we've talked about this before, but this was also another one of those movies that for me, I was not enjoying it so much No and was so uncomfortable so often that I kept taking breaks whichich only made it lasting longer. If I had just sat down and watched it start to finish, boom, I would have been done. But instead it probably took me three and a half hours to complete this pro. Sure I just finished it.ong, You are wrong. you are watching This is a master work, a masterwork I will say this. It reminded me very much of the room, but I actually think the room is much better than this. I wrote the same thing. Yes. But I mean I wrote the same thing playable one hundred percent. The room is more enjoyable. The room has like, if I'm gonna about I'm about to say something really wild. Yeah. The room had a plot that was easier to follow one I was just gonna I was gonna say if you put like a blind taste test and said, who made what movie? I would say, well, I think Norman Miller made I'm not gonna taste either of these movies. If you're gonna distill these movies into a liquid, I am not putting either of them in my. Lick the bald scout of L Torney U hereere's what I'll say. I don't know if you all never say lick the Bald scalp again. That's the t shirt. Lick the Bald scalp. Oh God. The All right, so here is By the way, isn't everybody glad the movie is over? Oh my God, don't I had such a rel to it. I was watching it by myself and when it was over, I literally just sat in bed and and had a moment with myself with the film. and what happened in that meditative moment was that I came out stronger for it. Like I was like, I don't know what I I' to ask you a question, Paul because Jason, just so you know, yes did I take a weed gummy before? Yeah, I did. And thank God, by the way, like the injuries I would be sustaining now without that weed gummy, like than God. I feel like I while watching this went into like a disassociative state Like I feel like I went into like some sort of like Fight or flight instincts were triggered and I went into like I retreated into my interior life, into my mind because I was so unsettled by the movie. So this is what I was gonna say. Thank God I took that wee gummy butt I sit there when Pul says it's time to watch the movie, I said, okay, let me get my journal. let me get a pen take my gumpy cozies and I'm going to sit Let me take a weed gummy, and I'm going to watch the movie Now Pul sits And he's checking clipper scores. He's sometimes watching other videos.. He's doing all manner of. He's on what? And maybe he's on discord. He's responding to things. He's on the discord, watching it right now, guys. Lking up things responding to people. and I on Instagram and I'm like don't know how you even saw the movie. and now I'm like, how did you watch the movie? And I don't think you did the work that Jason and I did. I agree. I there staring at it. I bet Paul like didn't even look at the screen during the five minutes of empty New England streets and beaches that was the beginning of a. No he has an ability to like multitask. Yes. I do not really I do not I am a very I I have a brain that can jump there. I think it's slightly defective brain, but that's where I strong. Yeah. The one two punch that really made me scared was Canon films. Okaykay, sure. One hour in fifty minutes. Wha you can't have a Canon Films movie that's this long. Canon Films movie has to be like an hour and twenty minutes. eighty seven, eighty seven minutes is sweet spot. I want to say one thing about this film and my experience with this film. A the first handful of minutes when it was very clear to me that We were in for a wild ride M There was mister Akin to mister Toad. By the way, I just went on that this week. with my two young boys. We had a great time on mister Toad's Wild Ride. They didn't seem to mind that we went to hell which is one of the darker rides in Disneyland that you get hit by a train and then you go to hell That is how the ride so tacitly, one might understand in the context of the ride that you have passed away. Yes. you do. You have been So you have it's forcing children to face their own mortality. Iing choice for a ride. I loved it as a child. they were like, oh, I can't wait to get to the he part. I can't wait to die. which I'm sor because I said it outd. still has mister Toadess up L that they have only at Dneyland and it's only at Disneyland. and I've never been to a mrter I've never been Disneyland interesteresting. N never been to Disneyland What? Wh N never been Wow. Sorry, sorry. guysys, huge reveal in this episode. I've never been to Disneyland Have you been to Disney World As a child, we went twice. Well, we gotta go to Disney. Oh my gosh We got. I've never I've never I mean, we would that much festival Yeah technically was that in That was not of Disney No. Okay. So so then no, I have not been to Disneyland because that's the only time I've ever been to Anaheim was for that much. you is that like a are you anti Disney I'm not a big, I'll say this, I'm not a big theme park person in general. Jason, Jason Six flags, Disney It's not It's not the same. it looks Okaykay. Disney's its own thing. But first of all, I mean we gotta get you to but to all just got so animated. It was Iestly thought you were gonna end the podcast. I didn't It was happen S flags and Disney in the same sentence. That's I do agree with that. Now listen, I have become a Disney person since being with Paul. Like I started off, I think probably where you are Jason, which was like, oh, it seems like too much and it's a headache and there's so many people and so much going on. But I've kind of turned into a Disney person. And even before having kids I was like that's what I was just gonna ask because I can totally understand and could see going with children being a very rewarding experience. Yes. you know and like very fun and infectious fun. I would love to go with kids to Harry Potter World or Galaxy's Edge or you know, all that You would love Galaxy's Edge as an adult Marvel's adult thinking about it going with like other adults or something like that. just doesn't And likeike I said, it doesn't like that's not one of my it doesn't interest me all that much. Thee parks in general. going on rides partarticularly. I mean, I will, you know, but I I want to change your mind. I want to change your mind. I want to change your mind because I think You would specifically enjoy some of the things at the Marvel campus. I think you would they have a PIMS food laboratory where everything is either very, very big or very small. But watch some that blue milk. I want some of that blue milk is good. I think the green milk is a little bit better Okay, well, there's so much to get into there. Here's what I was to say. Here iss what I was to say to all of you, which is when I see a movie like this, the way I approach it is this I can sit there. I can try to make sense of this film as if it is supposed to make sense. or And this is maybe a terrible analogy, but I'll say this It's as if the plane is going down. and when they say, Ohh, everybody make sure you buckle up because the plane is going down, I'm gonna be like, let me unbuckle my seatbelt because there's no way I'm getting out of this. So let me fly let me flop around this cabin because I'd rather be shooting up and down in You think you have a choice that matter? So I think you're gonna unble your seat belelt But Yeah, but Paul, I just w to make sure you understand, you might cause irreparable damage to other people in the. I'm making a judgment call that we're all going down. So why not die with like my like my el in a pinball machine Y Wh like if the thing is in twenty five seconds we're all going to be dead. Here's why not just go out with some I don't want to be like head into knees Okay, interestnteresting. E though that even though that might, you know, might not save anything. I feel like when I when I watch these movies like what sully, I wouldn't do it if like we were in a sully situation But you don't don't think I don't think the pilots come on and say, hello folks. So we're in a slully scenario. So we're gonna be okay. gotta judge it. I' be jud it. We're in it all hope is lost. so feel free to unbuckle and pinball around the cow. Whatever way you want to go out like that, It's. This is yours up to you. We don't We don't know. We don't know. We don't know what they say. You know what? We're declaring this is there is no rules If you want to take your mask off, you can. If if the back of that fuselage popped off like in lost I'm unbuckling, baby. If you w to go in the bathroom barefoot, go right ahead, you mon. Here's what I'll say to you. if I saw we were gonna noseedive and like a part of the plane was coming off, I would maybe take my chance in unbuckling and trying to fly out into the air. Yeah. Oh I'm just saying Je I'm not w You to hear the v I thought June and I were united in thinking Paul's choice was insane. And then June you just said you think you might be able to fly out of the plane and fly in air in space. Who' teing like R now? Who' teing Fred now? And who's teeam Sanity You're thinking might be able to wonder woman this? Yes, if I could grab a couple blankets.pl a blanket. Wait, you'reinkingre gonna c have a couple blankets and create a squirrel suit, a flying sirrel suit. That's that I'm a squirrel. ye Yeah. If I knew we were like, okay, we're probably heading into like a nose dive. like there's no way this plane is landing. I might take my chances that way. Yeah. Wow. I might wow, wow. So the funniest insanity comes back. Casey Wilson's dad told me once that and then we'll get back to the movie eventually, but doing they too, I'd rather have frankly, I'd rather having talk to. So she told me that there was her dad was on a flight from like DC to New York, reallyally, really quick flight. and sometimes they fly low and hit a ton of turbulence. there was a storm There's a guy in a business suit who's sitting there. Now the flight nighters can't get up and it's a short flight, but he's having a full ic attack. gets up out of the seenat un buckles like Paul and just starts heading toward the exit door screaming, I gotta get out of here. Gotta get out of here. Oh no. And the flight attendants and other passengers have to restrain him to the ground. And there's a flightent that keeps on screaming at him, likeike, sir, you're on a plane. Like there's nowhere to go But he was just fully in a panic spiral, screaming. Well, I'm not even CC. I'm being much more deliberative. I'm just saying like That's what I feel like I would be like at Disneyland. I feel like I would be running towards exit screaming, I got to get out of here. it is hard to go during the pandemic now because there's no realge. Like there's no I only go to Disney because the way Paul does Disney and Paul has an energy level that's not normal for like T tellell him how I took the kids, what did I do with the kids Well, so we went the first day we went and it was really fun. We came back from our vacation and the kids thought they were going home and we like left LAX and surprised them by turning into Disney. So they were just like so cool.. And it was really, really special. So we get there that night, the next morning, we wake up and it's like' we're going into the park. Yeah. But we like we stay at the What is it called Grand California? Grand California Yeahah. It's like a nice hotel at Disney, but I need that space to go back to.ight. You need like you need what the kids need like or what younger kids need at Disney like a nap time. Like you have like like auge. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I do. Am I to be in like a quiet room quet room and be quiet. I felt like and I didn't say this too in the I didn't say this to him in real life. I'm going to say it to you now in the podcast and see how this ls. But' to be clear this is real life. Yes. Oh yeah. I felt you co opted our youngest to enjoy that trip where he may not have needed that like he may not have needed that retreat, but I feel like he was He was caught up in it because the next day when I was with him He said to me multiple times I'm not tired! Maybe that's because So the next day I did one day and then I came back because I said I'm me gonna do and I left really early in the morning. Paul took the kid by himself for Disney and like they literally left the hotel room at like nine AM and they got back to our home, never went back to that hotel room at like ten. Okaykay? What And so I did two days in the park or just the one days in the park two days in the park. But Paul did a full day in the park with him by himself and they never went back to rest. Now I also feel I'm going say this about men in general and I know this is a generalization, but men don't appreciate rest. As much as women. I buy that? Yes, I do So I'll be honest, I love that rest, baby. ye, I think we give G the. I need to, there's only so much kind of public facing I can do and then I need to go get quiet Yeah and. I need to shut it down. I believe myself and June was gonna to laugh real hard here, but I believe myself to be an introverted extrovert. My want is to be sorry, wait you said an introverted extrovert. Yes. Yeah my want I just want to make sure. Yeah like my want is to be back home. My want is to but when I'm out, I'm like, well, now I'm out Now I'm going to go out. but I but when I'm out and I feel like a little tinge or pull, I'll go I'll pull the rip cord. I like I fight with that a lot internally. like going home versus going out. But by the way, this is why I think our yogist didn't need a rest because Paul sent me a picture of him From like his day alone with the boys at breakfast time and they were sitting outside of Starbucks and he was drinking basically like a brownie suundae. It was a was was they He's not tired. He's high as a kite. He's having a red eye. Yeah Anyway, Jason, I am curious what you'd think of Disney and it would be fun to go, you know on Maybe we can do it for the show somehow. I would love we should bring a recorder and we take breaks every like hour or so and could check in. I would love to do that. Now, what I was saying with my airplane analogy was, I think a movie like this really pays off much bigger dividends if you R I'm Dipping in, dipping out, feeling like I don't need to understand it because when you loosen yourself into it, like if I try to make sense of this, I'm gonna beide my as I could get. Well But here's my too. My feeling is I try and meet the movie O on its term. Okay. You know what I mean? Like knowing what we're talking knowing like my expectations with the movies that we do are that things are going to be wrong, off, weird, whatever. So I try and come to it being like my expectations are that's what's in store for me. Right. This movie though was so uncomfortable and so It is unc unsettling That I couldn't to be inside of it felt awful. Well to be inside of this provinceetown world this New England world that that looks like my hometown, that looks like places and things I know. and then have it be full chalk Chock full of The broadest southern accents I've ever heard in my life. Like how I thought you said chal people. Like chalk alkool. And I was also like, well, you said this movie is chalk. and I was like, yeah, it is chalk. It is this ch movie. And I don't know why it is. No I would say all these performers oddly look alike. Like there was moments where was there were moments where I was like, I agree. I was like the cop kind of looks like the other husband and Ryan O'Neill kind of looks at the cop And at one point, I was like, is that even Ryan O'Neill? I'm not even sure anymore. I will say this. I just know I don't like any of them. That's all I know. Yeah. If you told me they shot this movie over the course of eleven years, I would believe you because sometimes they look young. sometometimes they look old, like there's there' no consistency. like the scenes in which he's talking with his father And recounting the events of the mov like there's flashbacks no spine of the movie where Ryan O'Neill present tenents Ryan O'Neill is sitting talking to his father and they are just flashing back, which is the body of the movie is these long flashacks go because then we get caught up to that we got about forty five more minutes left at Exactly. Yes. The third act is that is present. Yes. But there are flashbacks in the flashbacks as well. Yes. But here's the one thing I wrote that down when they flashback to When they flashack to, he's a bartender. I was like no, a flashback inside of a flashback fuck this movie! I' also multiple voice overver narrators. multiple narrators Today's podcast is brought to you by our friends over at Squarespace. You know I love Squarespace because with Squarespace, everything that you need to succeed online is in one spot. from claiming your domain to building a beautiful website, promoting your work, and taking payments. It's all there, whether you're just starting out or ready to grow. Easily create a standout site using designer templates or AI with drag and drop editing it makes Everything so easy. 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Have you checked out their cashmere waffle short sleeve polo sweaters, they are unbelievable and they are priced Pf And I've actually been able to put together a much more stylish summer wardrobe than what I normally wear at summer, which is a little bit more ragtaggy like I look like I'm still in high school. You know, so elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince d. com slash bonkers for free shipping on your order and three hundred sixty five day returns. now available in Canada too. That's QuiNCE dot com slash bonkers for free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns quintince dot com d slash bonkers Here's the thing Um goddamn, there's so much There's so much. there's so much here because I did say this is a you know, it's directed by Norman Mayer who is a, you know, Pulitzer prize winning author. I've read multiple Norman Mayer amazing, right? But this is a book that he wrote. so he adapted it. So he would think that he would have the best handle on this material. Robert Town, who wrote Chinatown comes and consults on this. You think produced by Franis Ford Coppola. You think at any point someone would say, hey, we don't understand the plot. Ford Coppola This movie was produced by Franis for Copeland. I mean just in the credits I saw that. I Well, this movie premieres Can Wow. Like yeah, this movie premieres I can' out of competition, but' I guess maybe that doesn't count. But can I just show you not in the same way It doesn't have the same weight, but even the even still that's fucking nuts. When When it premieres it can The reaction is not good. And so all of a sudden your fingers. this is this is how America met this film. So this is the trailer. anyone can call pause at any point, but I want to show you the trailer for this film because I think I've never seen anything like this. And we'll just we'll roll it right in. Here we go I just received the comment cards from the first screening of my new film, Tough Guys Don't Dance Bold, innovative, wonderful s. Why are we talking about that? We can't let it hang out here where else can we? A movie not to miss Giant death orgy with lots of maniacs. Oh man. Oh God. Oh man the rottenness happen. One of the best and most original films I've ever seen. It was brilliant. One of the worst, ever. My grandmother could do better. I agree. You agree on what? Excellent crazy entertainment, very funny Grossy. sleazy. Garbage. it was no small job. Quick turns of plot enjoyed having to think. Whoever wrote this has never read a good book. You think it's simple? Well here go ahead, you pull the trigger. It' being set up. N a for way So Norman Miller basically sets up his own movie by saying like I don't know. like I like that he embraced like the negative reviews and made it part of the like the promotional campaign because it is I agree with all the negative reviews and what they it does stink. It is whoever wrote it hasn't read a good book. I don't know. It was this movie this movie is Ryan O'Neill And then a bunch of people who are basically doing a blanche duubois impression from isard name desire. This is the one thing I want to say early on, but I think it's a perfect time now. when I write What I often do is I keep open another document and as I'm cutting through things, I will things out of like a document and I'll throw it into like a junkin file just in case I want to go back to it. And what this whole script felt like was like Tennessee Williams junkin for streetcar named desesire. Like it was sort of like this is all lines that could have felt like it was so majority of the are. I mean, it's so, but it's so Oh it's infuriating. Like there it was just infury and I gotta tell you, fuck Norman Mayiller, I think the guy's a homophobic sexist fucking maniac. and I'm so Jane, did you get dis from the From the racist and racist and homophobic all sorts like every all sorts of things is it's all on display in this film. From the jump L this opening scene with his Dad. Yeah here Yeah went quick came home I must be backad Yeah, I quit it Nausea was a disgrace What are your chances been Fa? A son Who do the fucking say? I handle everything with the middle of the night Where's your wife? Patdty Lorraine took off november first, twenty eight days ago. married the wrong girl, I saw. She should have married the other one. I thought you like Pad Lorie I d thats A certain damess o to wear a t shirt that says, hang around, I'll make a cockscker ready Thanks. I mean, that introduction, it's like, it feels like people were getting into fist fights in between takes of this movie. like that Okay felt like ye Can I talk about something? Yes. Now I want to talk about something. And just because you showed the Norman Mayer reviews thing that is pretty great. There is everybody can find it on YouTube. Norman Mayler made another movie called Midhead. What That stars a you movie. Yes, that stars a young Riptorn. okay? I thought this is there is footage. There's a ten minute clip on YouTube that we will maybe link to or you can find. just Norman Mayailer, Riptorn Google it on Youube or YouTube search it And it is a footage it's behind the scenes footage that is being shot while they're shooting a scene. Riptorn has lost his mind And he attacks a shirtless Norman May he attacks Norman Mailer with a hammer and hits Norman and all their families are around because all their families are there shooting. They're out in a field He attacks Norman Mayler with a hammer And then and then Rip Torn is like, I'm you. I'm you. Yeah, ye. And Norman Maylor at a certain point is kind of like, I gota admit, this is exactly what the character would have done. They're so inside of this kind of craziness There are children crying, screaming, no, no, they've just watched their father be attacked by a Riptorn who looks like he's it looks like documentary footage from like like like a true crime story. Riptorn looks like a deranged murderer. He's holding a hammer bloodied from hitting Norman Mailer in the head with a hammer. It's fucking Nuts. So here's Norman Mayler is shirtless. Rriip that's riporn. D Norman, take go at herur No No, baby, No baby You know, you trust me, you trust me, you trust me. You trust me. You trust me, comeome on. I trust you. you trustree. All right. All right, follow us. Pomise. All right, Okay, I go. Okay. go Okay Okay. I'm sorry, Dad. I'm sorry, Daddy. off. Let me just! Py! are you cut this f out? Okay, this is amazing. It's ten minutes long. That movie had forty five hours. They had forty a forty five hour cut but they had to get down to one hundred ten minutes And someone was shot on that movie and yet they financed him for another movie Hey Ripn. There's a, there's a part of it where Riptorn's going You're not mailer. I'm mailer. I'm you. I'm you, daddy. And it is and his eyes are it is terrifying Oh my Godd. I thought this was his one and only no Oh no Although I don't know, are there any more? I don't actually don't I think I think it's this one because he got a bunch of Razzies for this one. Razies were already How long have the Razzies been around? nineteen eighty seven. so this is the year where is later than I I thought this earlier This is the year it was nominated for seven Golden Raspberry Awards. It won worst director, but it tied with Elaine May for Ishtar, which I think if you go back, you'll find that Ishtar was unfairly maligned for whatever reason. It's actually a fine, if not a capable film in many ways. I think I think yeah it got cooked for reasons that were not necessarily valid. perfectly good movie. It just was very expensive That's what it was. Yeah. But this movie starts in a weird way because he said it the ten minutes of the scenes, but then it starts with a home invasion that we don't necessarily hear. L it's like, I guess not a home invasion, but like there's a moment I guess what you mean when his dad comes? Well ye D kettle? Yes. So I guess it's a weird thing to Dart a film with a noise where your character enters into it because they feel like tension is o, I've just come whatever it is I just woke up or like he it immediately jumps into a very weird narrative switch. That's when I knew I should unbuckle my safety belt and just start ping ponding around here because I was like, okay. Well yeah because so what happens is we start with Ryan O'Neill in bed. He hears the tea kettle going off whistling, which doesn't seem odd because which is not a scary sound, but it picks up a crowbar nonetheless and starts creeping through. And what you realize later is the last five days have been a series of like physical attacks that he's been through with various people. So later we understand why he was nervous that someone was in that house. But right now we have no idea what's going on. In the language of film Once you have someone waking up to a teKel going off, that would be the normal thing Right. Well, Well not if you lived alone But we don't know anything about this. We don't know any of that. I the first image we have of him is waking up in a bed like, o, he could be married this could be a comedy. we don't know anything. So just having someone in a bed with a chekail going off, like if a window smashed, I get it. but it's like it's I could talk forever about The house party where his wife plays the trumpet. The seance. By the way, this is shot in Norman Mayiller' house. I mean, of course it was. I'm not surprised even remotely to hear that. I wrote, This movie is bizarre. The room makes more sense. Like what is this story? He goes at what Ryan ONneeill says about his wife at one point, She was the largest addiction of my life And and he's a guy like goes to prison for selling Coke is like there's more Coke done in this movie than I think in in Bright Light's Big City This is absolute insanity. I was also like confused. I want to talk about the heads, the women's heads that were buried Inna Frest on There one woman and one man, right? ee, that's what I' want to talk about. I think both heads were women's. Yes. Wait, heads were womenen then The man was killed as well. his I don't think he was decapitated. his body is just in the trunk rotting Correct. Yes. so And then the two women were decapitated. But at one point, Jason, and I think clearly Paul was a little confused about this too. Well, because we now know he's barely watching the movie. I I know he was. And I was confused when the cllippers showed up in ninet seven and yeah and Kyrie was there. I don't know. I don't know. I hopefully I to be so lucky So I okay, so I knew there was blonde hair on the first head and he was freaked out, right? So he left that head there. Got that. ' deny their head. Th he later is saying to himself, whose head was it? Whse head was it? He's not saying it to himself, Jason. That voiceover is a woman's voice saying whose head is that? who' is that I'm sorry.'re right Becauseuse there is there's lots of exactly what June just did. There's lots of like whispering Yeah in the soundtrack. Well I mean, who's cackling at the end of the film? We'll never know. Yeah because this is a ghost movie. But is this thing I know we've talked about this on the show, and people have referenced this a bunch likeike we talked about this idea like when you're a kid find orn in the woods and that was how you would find like a porno magazine or something like that. But but in this is was it a thing to hide your drugs like in a little like And was going to say because it's just marijuana he's hiding there. Yeah He's a co know I don't know where the cocaine was, but doesn't seem to be protected the same way that that. I never underst hereere's what I never understood They seem to intimate repeatedly that Ryan O'Neill is the cocaine connection, that they have the money and that they're fr they're saying he's going to be the guy that gets the coke. But I never see that that the movie never shows him as that go between and it seems like they're setting him up to take the fall. Well I I think that they're setting him up to be the take the fall because they have They in with the Coke dealers and the big plan was to sell what? like two million dollars of Coke to get ten million dollars of money or they're running some No, they had the money. They had two million dollars from that southern guy. Provinceetown is populated entirely by people from the deep side. I was like I was gonna say is this this a town that is populated by character actors from community theater? becausecause everyone in this movie I mean That's the Southern guy the richy rich southern guy who's like You don't understand. It It's hard to be have a two million dollars. What am I gonna do? B you want the doough b about it f We gotta play a tpet of that woman, that woman playing the woman who talks about her vaginal hair or and playing a trumpet. T to be clear, she does not does she say vaginal? No, I was I didn't want tona say p like hair. right. I'm trying to I think I'll be honest. as far as I'm concerned, vaginal hair is way worse A million times. It's really a lot worse. When you get pubic hair. I should say pubic hair, yeah Vaginal hair is not even really a thing. Lady, you sound like a witch Well, honey, I am a witch Good blonds are You're not a real blonde My pussy hair was bright gold in h until I went out and Sculched with the football. That party where she goes, the doorbell rings. she goes, that must be my boyfriend and just takes off her outfit. People are ripping off their clothes like NBA stars ripping their ripping off their warms. I mean everybody has rip away clothing. It is She strips just to answer the door because she says it must be my boyfriend. and then it's not And like Jason is just the vibe. Like this is what was interesting to me too. Like to me, that's not the vibe of that part of the country. Am I wrong?ong? It did not Well, I mean, the party was full of southerners. so maybe theying maybe they were bringing that southern style to to Proinetown is like, you know, the cape basically. It is It I always think of it as a bit more like upper crust and stiff. Well, that's why the seance made it sense because they're into witches and stuff like that. they burned witches at a steak, right That's why they're doing s. That's not necessarily in that same area, but sure sure sure. No, it made no sense that they were in Provincetown. Like it would have made much more sense to me if this movie was set in Savannah. You know why Provinetown? Beuse Norman Mayiller is like, let's shoot at my house so I don't have you like go anywhere. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that makes total sense now that you say that, but it made no sense to me Like how big and broad all the characters were. like the drug dealers similar Like they were all, yes, they were big and broad, but there was no like I couldn't really tell you the difference between like Pengelette's character as the preacher. Oh holy c. The swinger preacher and also like that the main killer, I think at the end, that that guy and then the police chief, like they they all bled into each other. The character that I wanted to see more of who I thought was the most defined was the adult film star who comes to town. She was incredible She's one of she's one of the women that's murdered though.'s of But I mean, I feel like we didn't get enough time with her. and you get this amazing scene with her right at the get go. That was a joke M surgeonss happy people up and get paid for it That's happiness. You look like one of those method actors that plays a killer. Don't say that. Why not J as I could kill you. I feel demented tonight. In what way, dement I could fuck your woman right in front of you Only if the lady agrees. Now, is that a real joke or are they just all? I don't I mean, like it has the structure of a joke, but it is not like it's not inherently funny. like like the idea being like most people who cut people up, like they're crazy murderers, but with the surgeons, they get they cut people up and they get paid for it. But the way he told it He felt like Christian Baleon American psycho. Like he didn't tell it with any joy. It was like Oh jeez Yeah, I don't know. I mean, and that's where I think I think the movie is trying to like fuck with us a little bit where we're supposed to think like, oh, is he is he a killer Did he do this Ryan O'Neill shouldn't even be in this town. He doesn't fit Like I don't buy him as this character. I don't buy him as a guy Izipping his pants. I don't buy I don't buy any like alk about misscast I don't agree him don' I don't believe him as a Coke dealer who goes to prison for three years. No. I don't believe him as the local marijuana dealer who's like kind of a jiggalo. like this I don't agree I don't believe in any of this and o, and I fundamentally don't believe in him as what he is, which is the Norman Mayer stand in, the writer He's not he's not not about mailoresque in any way, sh or' not He's supposed to be a writer, you know, like that's his thing. He's a failed writer or whatever. Meanwhile, you've got like You've got the police officer who's married to his who's married to Ryan O'Neill's ex wife, who's played by Isabella Rossellini, who is as always incredible and just like fantastic, but has so little to do. and I feel terrible that she's like just kind of shunted around. But the speech that that guy gives when he goes, I'm a law enforcement officer and it turns me on. Like everybody in this movie has a speech about how This thing this horrible thing they do makes them horny. Like the other patty Lorraine. fuck. I mean, this Patty Lorraine when she shoots the other blonde woman gets like horny and they fuck afterward. Crazy I mean, look that honestly I have to say that coolding scene was so disturbing to me and not because it was graphic. And there are more graphic sex scenes, but just to have that man just crying like, why donon't you listen to me? No one listens to me. Listen to me L and it's like on the side of like, Ohh no, let me speak. It was let me speak He's he's crying. Oh why wouldn't he walk away? And And I mean, this movie is so I mean, by the way It's aggressively homophobic. I mean, that's the other thing too. It's like it is Like it's why it was kind of like Jaw dropping in that way. like yeah, ff In a way that it felt like performative masculinity. Yes Norman Mailer. You know what I mean? Like Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah's like that's kind of like who I'm leveling that against. It's really like it's Mayor really trying in the mouth of every character, every character is homophobic to another character in some wayays. They would fuck them all. Every character would fuck each other regardless of And do And most of them do, you know? Yes. And what's hilarious about that to me is like norm mailers giving Every character that platform, but also just so many characters. It's like I feel like there were three extra characters that could have Like there were three men in this movie who you could cut out and not miss at all. Like or just collapse them into any of them. Yeah. Yeah. you could yeah, absolutely Well, here's the thing too that happens. like there's a scene in this movie where he gets in his Jeep And he has his dog he has a dog with him. When does that dog come to play? And then the dog that in that scene, the dog is murdered. So I was like when has he first of all, we're like more than an hour into the movie. When since when does he have a dog? We've never seen him have a dog yet. And yet anything's like like it's like a John Wick moment. Yes in the middle of the movie in the middle of the movie. He's like, you killed my Yeah, that's your knice. s that's your knife In my dog. Oh God. FX is The Bear, the Emmy Award winning series returns for its final season with no money, the threat of a sale and a torrential storm in their way the team bands together to achieve one last service. Can they earn that coveted Michelin star? I love this show. I cannot wait to see Ends, I don't want it to end, but we're gonna have a great ride getting there. FX is the Bear, The final season premieres june twenty fifth on FX. all episodes streaming on Hulu. confonidence. It's listening to your gut. 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I love that the guy, the southern guy Wardley Oh yeah he's like, he just wants to he's just like he just wants to throw sick parties. his's like he's got a gun on Ryan O'eil, and he's like We're going to throw the biggest parties these this world has ever seen like his goal in getting rich off of the Coke money is just to throw better parties. I mean, look, not a bad goal, notot a bad goal at all. I mean, kind of dog. And by the way, the sugs rolling up in a roll in a white Rlls Royce like these like like like first of all, not undercover at all aggressively like well what car they were driving? Oh, a white Rolls Royce. likeike there's no I would also believe it if you said that was Norman Mayer's car. I would believe it if everything in this movie was just like his. Oh my God. You drove a a white Rlls Royce. Oh I would one hundred percent believe that. I wrote in my I wrote in my notes, I feel like I'm in an active blackout Oh That's so terrible. There are a couple things in here too and maybe I don't want to be prudish, but the cop, when he's talking about his job and way he loves about his job. You don't want to be prrudish, said the man who said vaginal hair. Vaginal hair. I don't want to be prudish because I was trying to be very respectful of the vaginal. when when he when he goes He wrote like I like I like two humps a day Oh yeah. L he lik he needs to fuck two he goes I fuck two women different women. Tw different women. Yeah. So every day, he has to fuck two different women.ess One of them is his wife, Isabella Rosolini. and one is we now know is Ryan O'Neill's ex wife. And then doesn't Isabella Rosolini say at one point like I need to make out or he likes to make out five times a day She also equates a number with how much there I don't remember that. I thought she had like a line where she says like he likes to make out five times a day. Well everybody in the movie, I don't know if you guys found this jarring neither. Everybody in the movie monologues. Like there's not a lot of like, there's not a lot of back and forth. It's not conversational. Everybody is like tease someone up for a monologue, a proper like big like like let me tell you. type of thing and you it really is it's exhausting because it's in none of it is in none of it helps. Usually when a character monologues, it's an exposition dump. It's helping you understand information. It's giving you context or helping you ground the movie or whatever. But these monologues are fucking nuts. Oh, they're absolutely crazy When that guy, when that police officer then has a stroke Or has a heart attack or has his mouth like hisis mouth is half paralyzed. Like what the fuck was going on? I don't know. And then were they killing him at the end? Was that like a mercy kill where they were like, this is no life? Let's I rewind that section. I understand that. I rewound the section because I was like, I need to understand exactly what is going on here And I believe, if I am correct He hit his head into the wall so many times that he created his own stroke Like it's like so if you bang your head against the wall enough times, you can have your own stroke because he goes bang, bang, he's fine. thirird bang I he's getting what would happen to you like ping ponging around an airplane after you on boxact Wh cares? I'm dead. I'm dead. And although that guy survived. he did survive. And the first thing he said was off fucked better than you. Y womb is broken. Now by the way, who cares if her womb is broken? because he clearly doesn't want to procreate like Like you or like He might get a picture with those two kids, his brother's children This is me. W you just over this So all of that shit was so weird. alsoso and this was featured in the trailer that you played earlier, Paul, but I wanted to call it out At the end when they areump when Ryan O'Neill and his father are dumping all of the bodies into the ocean that are the result of all of the many different crosses and double crosses that have happened in this movie whichich are impossible to map because they don't make any sense. It is to pomp and circumstance. Oh. is they are only playing pomp and circumstance. It's as if they are graduating from high school So today graduates, as we go out into that great big world, we think to ourselves, you know what I mean? That's what it seems like, but instead they're dumping bodies into the ocean. And they're talking about the cure of cancer. Just hear a clip of that He you know something. I'm taking it this more than I thought I would you've been in the wrong occupation all these years This has gotta be the answer to k'. Maybe that's why cancer cost so much to cure The way I say' schizophrenia is the cure of a cancer Canance is probably the cure the schizophrenia That whole thing, it's like it' these it's very writerly. And I think like we're talking about these monologues are internal monologues and internal monologues work in novels because it's giving you you're getting moments. And I think like when you try to put all that outside It is it just becomes really u in like every character becomes completely insane. Yeah. Oh yeah. And well, I mean, to be fair, every character in this movie is completely insane. Like this is There is nobody save Perhaps Ryan O'Neill's father Wh is so Unphazed and unflappable in the face of multiple decapitations and murders. that it is absolutely banana C I like can I tell you my theory Yeah yeah he is not real You think he's a Tyler Durden situation? Yes, I do I have a very strong theory on this. like when when I meditated last night after this movie to think I was like, wait, wait a second. wait wait, back on. No, meditated on. Not I didn't I sat with the movie and I really thought about like, you know what? I need to go into a meditative state in order to process this moie. smart That's interesting. I picture you like, it's like like an episode of Sherlock where you go into the movie. I went into my mind, my mind Your mind palace, your memory palace. And I was thinking I was like I think he's not real. I think he is like this aggressive u, he because Ryan O'Neill is a Here's what I'll say in the terms of Norman Mayer and probably even not as aggressive as Norman Mayer. He's not a man's man. So he needs a man's man to take care of it' a man's business. So he creates this character who can do all the things that he wants to do because no one else really sees him He'sbody else and you're right. Nobodybody else interacts with him. Yeah. and he Oh, so here okay. So now I'm going I'm going to yes and your theory into hisis dad lost his battle with cancer. Yes. And now Ryan O'Neill in his time of need five days into the insanity of his wife leaving him, people starting to turn out up dead and realizing that he's being framed for murder, he needs the help of his father who seems to be like an ex cop or something he has like explanations as to what happened and who shot who and how This one died from this and this one died from that. He seems to have knowledge so that he takes that and populates it into Yeahah, maybe, maybe June Honestly I mean, you're giving the movie way more crediting like me for originality Mbe Well, so I thought at one point, what's interesting about that is I thought at one point he was going to be the killer And I was like, oh, we're leading there. Like we must be leading back to his father Um, I think it's definitely possible. Like I was craeving So badly some. I knew pretty early on that we were in a nosedive in terms of plot and that I wasn't going to be able to find my way out so much so that when The hotel worker, like the clerk arrived at Ryan O'Neill's house to ask if he knew this couple because they left their car in the hotel I was relieved to just understand the scene understand like, oh, A Carsman left there, he's worried. He's trying to figure out where these people are He knows he's been with them the night before because is the only responsible person in this town. Yeah. But Paul, I think it's an interesting theory, and I also think that it gives the movie way too much credit If if that is true, like if you said to me like, oh, actually that is true. it's in the book. Yeah I would be like, oh, that that's a more interesting story. and it's just not in here. You really have to like look for it to find out that's going to lead into my next thing Let's start a book club and this lets this be the first book and we'll come back next week least have a return to this. I will Mbe were So it's interesting. I knew we were in trouble when I saw the title. When I saw on my calendar like Watched I had eight o'clock night before Thursday. How did this get made? Watch Tough guys donon't dance. And I was like, u what's this? And then the credit started and I see Norman Mailer and I'm like, what is this now? And then it unfolded and it was it was just horrible. You guys h horrible by the way did it. I hateated it every minute. By the way the title of this thing, Roger Donoue was a prize fighter who was thanked by Norman Mayiller in the film because told him an anecdote that resulted in the title. I guess Frank Costello, the murder Ink boss and his gorgeous girlfriend, greet three champion boxers in the stork club and Costello demands that each of these boxers dance with his woman eachach of the boxers nervously complies. And then the last boxer, Willie Pepp U, you know, goes, well, why don't you dance, Mr. Costello? And Costello goes, tough guys don't dance And that's how it came, but also what a bizarre story that is too. Like again, a cuuckolding of these men. like you guys think you're tough. I'm going to make you dance for me and then tell you you're not so tough. I mean, this is a lot of You know, there's a lot of hammer h so and this There's a lot of toxic masculinity on display inside this movie for sure I also just want to take a moment to talk about some of the amazing dialogue. Like there was a thing where was like, if you run a potato farm and you run to the potato market, you won't have enough potatoes to run a factory. I'm like, wait, what the fuck is that or like where there like, hey, did you make a puddle in your pants? Like there was like some jazzy like there was some like jazz it's like when back to the future two when they go there like, hey, Bojo, Oh, he created a whole language in this movie that he is like I think And I know you started the show with this, but I really we to get it toress enough that if you are if you are part of the audience of this podcast that does not listen or rather does not watch the movies ahead of time or maybe doesn't watch the movies at all At least seek out the clip of the oh god. Oh we got we got a play We gota play it's too This is So Ryan O'Neill gets a letter from Isabella Rosllini and she makes him promise to read it alone when he's alone, not with her presence. So he goes to the beach and he reads it and then this happens. And by the way, I couldn't understand what the letter was actually saying. June and I rewound it three times because H couldn't understand. Her accent is definitely playing a part of it. But then there's also like the minute she says, because I did eventually figure it out, murder them. We have to murder my husband. A bird squ. you should share that with me. Well, you were asleep when I figured it out. When I figured it out was like That would be hard She's saying my husband and your wife are sleepy are having an affair. and that we had that they were behind there're there there're in Cahoots to try and frame whatever, frame you or whatever is so we have to kill them basically before they get you. Yeah. but when she says like kill them I swear a bird squawks. So so you you're you're hearing surf sand voiceo and a birth squawking over very like we were around it three times. I know it was June and I both trying to listen and we like, what's that? My husband, he's having an affair with your wife I don't think we should talk about it What' prepared to kill them. Oh man. Oh man Oh God man Oh God o man Oh God Oh God Oh. Oh God Oh Oh. Apparently that funny. That wrecked the relationship between Ryan O'eill and Norman Mayiller because I guess Norman Mayer and I've read a couple of things now, really loved the bad acting and I think he edged it like he was like more of that Like so he fed people into it. So like Ryan O'Neill was like, oh, he totally betrayed me. Like he fucked me over. And I think that like people just felt like Ryan when Norman Miller talks about it Like there's a disdain for these actors like, oh, I thought the bad acting was so great Like he's like he's a non filmmaker. he's an author making a film commenting on film and terrible act. It's like it's too many levels are at play, I think. Oh my God. I mean it's it is don I want to say it's interesting to watch. It's just not. I mean, honestly, yeah, I wouldn't recommend that you go watch it even though you know, there's people out there that might have a different opinion. So now it is time. Oh boy, for second opinions Ch person recommends it. Tell me what is the message disjected. I need a second opinion. Thank you, John Lasois. These are five star reviews. I didn't really find many, o, I shouldn't say me, Nate Kylie. by the way, also a big thank you to Averil Halley for bringing this film into our lives or I guess, a lawsuit to Averil for bringing this in. Jason and June will be I hope you have a lawyer. but Nick Kylie did some pretty good research here. There are not many earnest ones, but I'll read you I'll read this one from Roy Clark Um, okay So it is the title A very mailor movieoy as in great embellished with speed bumps When classmates in the sixties were reading Sallinger, I started reading Mailair, and I haven't stopped until he died last week. Happily, I've read and collected all but a few of his titles I've enjoyed his film translation of stuff guys don't dance because I've read and enjoyed and learned from the book, learearned. Now I guess it's rereading time This film is Mailer as the book. with a strong character driven plot drawn with the brilliance and pomosity of Mailers famous for Personally, I like his departure from expected forms, taking risks, which might prove embarrassing, flowing or stumbling. the flow of tough guys is audaciously male or brilliant, funny on purpose or an egotistical misstep, artistically insightful or hung over and off. It's way up with acknowledged smartness and it's an entertaining flick It's a learning experience as well as entertainment in terms of the human experience, as well as film writing and directing. Somehow the characters seem exactly as I saw them when reading For a double hit, try reading the book before after viewing the movie. I've come to like reading after viewing for the imagery. It will make an impression and an impressive one F stars. And then this is from Stephven Morrow. and you know these are serious because they're using their full name. And this is it I still maintain This has some of the best dialogue in a movie you'll ever find such as never call an Italian small potatoes He was way ahead of the curb in reintroducing Noir again into film culture. Of course, I'm biased. Since I was fortunate to have worked with Norman on it, but you are by But you, you know, but can you think of a movie of more recent vintage that has more than one memorable line? This is nineteen eighty seven. I would say this is the height of catchphrases, but maybe just one, I don't know. just explosions of Matzag Gor, RIP, Norman Mailer. They don't make them like that anymore Can you imagine your're Isabella Rosolini The year prior you are in Blue Velt. Y Like an incredible movie, that is a noir, that is an unbelievable film And then you are in this That's That's a wild back to back two. Yeah ye. The budget of this was five million or ten million, depending on who you believe. Los Angeles Timesays five, Spy magazine says ten. It grossed eight hundred fifty eight thousand dollars. The top three films of eighty seven are Beverly Hills Cop two Platoon and Fatal atttraction. It doesn't feel like it's a contemporary of that at all. It was beaten by Running manan Jaws the Revenge overver the topop and Prom Night two U I think we know where you both fall on this movie about watching it. but I will say this, June, I was wrong. This is the last movie he directed, but he directed Four films total madestone Beyond the Law and Wild ninety This is the last movie he directed. so Uh he was quite a prolific filmmaker. I mean, not not bad at all get four out of the gate like that. I mean, to be clear, this is bad This is like And this is this for me falls into the category of I would not recommend people watch this. of course June Would you recommend that people watch this? It's on YouTube though. if you want to like, if you want to peep it or if you want to like watch the Oh God o no or magazine, like watch them or to get a sense of what we're talking about to watch some of these southern Southern accents are amazing. like the scene outside of the church But I would also say it is I mean worth watching. Yeah. I took again, I had one gummy I needed more. I think had I been, I'd be curious to see, I mean, I'll never turn it on again, but just like What one and a half what that would have felt like? Well, June, I think I can answer a little bit of that question for you. Not as it measures in gummies, but as it measures in versions of being impaired by that same substance. I watched this pretty stoned and it was