Societal Prejudice and Future Outlook

Hello everyone, it's John here, just letting you know that I've written a book. It's called Thirst. Twelve drinks that changed my life, and it's available to pre-order now. In many episodes of How Do You Cope, you'll have heard me talk about my relationship with alcohol. And in writing Thirst, I wanted to explore what alcohol means. Why did it mean more to me than other people? Why did it mean some things felt better? And why did it mean so many things went wrong? I also talk about lots of other things you'll have heard me and my guests discuss on how do you cope. Meditation. Physical pain. Gratitude, trauma, and therapy. There's even a chapter about my bum and its relationship with Buddhism. So if that piques your interest, First is available to pre-order now. The audiobook, read by me, is available to save or pre-order wherever you get audiobooks from. Before we start, just a quick flag that this episode contains discussions about suicide. on this topic see the links in the show notes. Hello and welcome to How Do You Cope? Me, John Robbins. This is the show where I speak to fascinating guests about the hardships they've overcome and the coping mechanisms that allowed them to do so. Today's guest is the comedian, writer, actor and podcaster Alison Spittle. Her latest show, 2025's Big, won the Comedian's Choice Award for Best Show. Big explores her experience after contracting cellulitis and septicemia, or blood poisoning. She was told by a family member that she needed to lose weight. It was a conversation she'd had before with health professionals. the severity of her condition. Led Allison to act on it. Big explores Alison's relationship with her size, food, and trauma, how they interact. and how other people's reaction to her weight has been a constant theme in her life. And these are many of the topics that we covered in our conversation. You can find her latest tour dates on her website, AlisonSpittle.com. Before we get started, don't forget that you can now watch every new episode of How Do You Cope on YouTube. Just search for How Do You Coke Pod. And you can of course listen to all episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And whether you're watching or listening, please like and subscribe so you don't miss any future releases. More info? Or to get in touch, head to howdocopepod.com. for now. is Alison Spittle. Do hope you enjoy our conversation. Well it's a very warm welcome to How Do You Cope with Alison Spittle. How are you doing, Alison? Great. The title of the podcast scares the shit out of me. Why? Because no one's ever asked that in good circumstances. How do you cope with You know. That's a good that's a good point. Yeah. No one says like how do you cope with having the best hits in the business? Well I'll find that guest. Yeah, dude. That is rude. Yeah, make a note of that production team. Yes. Um Well let's start with your stand up show, Big. Um I listened to it last week. And I have to say I'm Uh yeah. Um sometimes kicking and screaming to consuming stand up. Me too. I'm quite Picky. Or or do I just find So much stuff. that I can see is funny or you know, I get why it works, leaves me a bit cold. I was so impressed. I was really Like five minutes in, I was like, Oh, this is my cup of tea. um this kind of thing. Yeah. Because at its heart is quite a simple sort of narrative. It's basically like why I look different now than I did last time I was on tour, sort of. Yeah. Um but within it is so much quite complicated stuff. That you deal with really deftly and really funnily. And I think um you you said to me You find it easier to talk about difficult things on stage. Way easier. Than sort of one to one. And I wondered if we could dig into that. So Mm. I I know what that feels like but what is it about being on stage that makes talking about traumatic things easier? This is a good question. So I got into stand up by accident. I was working in a radio station and the man who did the breakfast show is a stand up comedian. And he said to me I should try stand up comedy. And I'd never seen stand up comedy before. I lived in rural Ireland. Um That's a lie. I did see Eddie Murphy raw, but I only watched that because I really loved Eddie Murphy. The concept the stand up left me cold. And then I said I'd do it. He said sorry, he challenged me to do a a gig for the radio show. did it and I loved it ever since. And and I think the reason why is 'cause like Uh ultimately I feel very safe on stage because Even when you're in open spot. Okay. The social contract is that people listen to and that's why people love the idea of heckling or why heckling videos do so well because it's destroying a social norm. And uh I never felt like it was a social norm for me to be listened to. So I would I would do stammer. And I would feel safe in uh, you know, answering back to someone or whatever that I didn't feel in my real life. you have to figure out what your thoughts are on a subject because you're presenting that. to an audience that you do have to think about. When I'm on a podcast. you know, we're having a conversation, but like Have I spent six months? having an imaginary argument with myself about what we're going to talk about. No, but I have done that about stand up. And especially when the like big is about losing weight. And there's lots of like mini arguments that you can have with these imaginary people. uh that you have to really have an answer for and a joke. So that's the yeah. And I do feel when you do stand up and you're you do have a purpose to be listened to because you're you're there to entertain and you're there to Make jokes and If I was to talk about what I'm talking about and not do a joke about it, I don't feel like I'd feel like I'm worth listening to, which is kind of messed up. Well you've um You've spoken before about getting counselling when you're at school at thirteen. because you punched a baked potato into the ground. Yeah. And that I think that's a really good case study in how to talk about trauma in a funny way. Yeah. Because Punching a baked potato into the floor is funny. Yeah. It regardless of the circumstances. Very much so. Underneath. you're kind of not getting counselling because you punched a baked potato into the floor. Yeah. That's the punchline to the trauma. Totally. Um So Are you Are you comfortable talking about what led you to punch a baked potato into the floor? Yeah, kind of um. Like it's weird because like I talk about it in the show. And like It's it's we uh I suppose the point But It being funny punching a jack of potato into the floor. It's like it's like if you watch Mr. Bean, it's very funny, but if you think about Mr. Bean for longer Them ten minutes is very sad. Cause you're like, What's Mr. Bean's life like? How did he get to that point? You know, uh with me. I'm I can talk about it. It's it it's it's I'll talk about it in a way that like Is it okay if I don't name the t even though people will know? Cool in whatever way you're comfortable with. Yes. So like something happened to me when I was a kid, a trauma. And it's weird how like in the show I just say what it is. Um, and I think that's because of like Like it's weird. And I know why I do it. I think I do it. in the show to go I think I was like For a few months I was doing it without saying what it was. And then I was like, Ugh. I might as well just say it. And then think I've a problem saying it publicly publicly because What is other people involved and There's like a your own your own like I don't know how you feel about talking about your trauma when your family are involved. Like my mother when she she reads my reviews so she knows what I'm talking about. And It's so sad to me she apologized to me. And I was like Like she was like, So my mum brought me to C Simon World, which is not Lots of mum's. Bring their children to Semi World. And like especially like I would love to be posh. in the way that like I feel that would help me with a lot of stuff, but I think lot of the Pars women that I know have Really, really. Uh horrible relationships with her mum and food. My mom Like if if if dil she apologised to me and I was like, You don't have to apologize to me. And uh I can see I see where I get my thing about food. And it wasn't for my mum. My mum was bringing me The Simon World almost like it was a gender affirming kind of like nice trip that we can do together as mother and daughter. You know? 'Cause I think there's this kind of like Uh There's this weird thing that women do with each other, which is they demean themselves physically. in order to make themselves more likable to women. uh to other women. And it's this kind of like ritual that you go through. to go like, oh, I don't like my arms or I don't like this about me and you're like, oh she's just like us, she's human. And uh Go back to the original trauma. Like It was so weird when I s so I punch the jacket down to the floor. Mum was like, What's going on? I actually don't know. And then I told her. And it was something I kept a secret. For a long time. And it's uh And it's this weird thing of like Once you put A label on it. This is gonna be so frustrating to the listener, but tough shit. I'm sorry. But like um once you put a label on it. Then you just It's weird how people treat you then. Then they're like, Oh, you are allowed to be mental. That is quite traumatic. You know, and here is hell. And so that was the first time I think. that like I was ever properly helped. Because Because otherwise I was just being difficult. But when there's a when there's a thing of like A label. Then you're helped. And then like And then I suppose I wanted to keep it a secret because Um I felt like I was Well or like I wasn't gonna punch a jack potato into the floor every day so I could hide it better. And I didn't have to tell people, but a lot of people knew in my school. I think one day Um One day someone said to me, like, Why are you going to counselling? and I just told them why. And they were like, Oh yeah. Th these are like twelve or thirteen year olds. Mm. And it's I've never felt like I've never felt ashamed of how mentally ill I've been. Because I've been told. you should feel that way. Mm so there I don't know, it sounds weird, isn't it? Like I think I think that that makes sense. And I think so many people for like a reason. Yes. And that uh often like the interior monologue is things weren't that bad. And to but to actually have something to go No. Serious thing happened to me when I was a kid. Yeah. It's like the nuclear sense. Yeah. So in a sense, I'm not mad. Because my madness proves I'm not mad. I know, and it's almost like sometimes sometimes I go to myself, I could be so much madder. And then that sounds messed up. And sometimes I watch people's Edinburgh shows. And they'll talk about a sad thing and I'll be like, Really? Like that's just Is it s sort of safe to say that that incident that led to you punching the jacket potato. Yeah. Also led to you using food as a as a way of managing your emotions. I think so. Yeah. I like it's that I'm like I just I had an incredibly stressful childhood. Like my A l like Big love to my parents. Love them very much. Did their best. All good. But my dad had a car crash when I was a kid and uh was in a wheelchair for a couple of years. So there was this and like money was tight. So I was just always very aware of the stresses going on in my family. And, you know, I was the eldest and I definitely took on the responsibility of being the eldest and and Sorting out stuff. So the food thing Comes from The food thing comes from think it comes from being poor as well and having access to cheap food. And It was like an opiate in a way, like I would eat as much bread as possible until I couldn't feel anything any more. And And it and it was a sense of control 'cause I the incident I had no control over stuff. So Uh with with the uh eating Not only did I have control on what I consumed, how much I consumed, and people didn't like me consuming that much, but if I kept it a secret. No one would know when I'd have a good time. And it also would incapacitate me as well. Ooh Yeah I'll make those noises when I've told too much truth. And You talk in the show about Not wanting attention from men, not wanting them to be attracted to you. wanting to kind of even really have to deal with that sort of world. Yeah. And then the the the larger you were, the more that kind of Seem to Do that job. Mm. And that If you they were verbally abusive towards you, part of your brain, as distressing as or unpleasant as that is, is going, The system works. At least they're not trying to fuck me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was w yeah, it was kind of like It's kinda this weird thing of like I always like When I'd watch Romeo and Juliet, I always really wanted to hear more from the big titted maid that was just quiet and go, Juliet, you're gonna get in trouble. And that's what I felt like is like I felt like I suppose it's Catholicism? As well. I was big into being a Catholic. Uh for a while. And it was helpful with uh I kind of like feared men. Uh, 'cause 'cause I had a lot of violence off them. So I'm like I could see as well like my friends who had relationships with men. Ne they weren't having a good time, so The the more I was told I wasn't attractive, the more I was like, Well, this is great and I need to keep keep going down this path. I wasn't I wasn't attracted to men. Um I wasn't in a wild place and I didn't want attention off them. And Yeah, it's this weird thing of like Sometimes Not all men. But sometimes men get really pissed off if you're not. If if your dream isn't to be attractive. attractive to them. You know, if you are seen to be deviate in from the role of an orifice or whatever. This is a horrible way of speaking about like the inter inter interpersonal relationships between men and women. But some men are so demeaning and dehumanizing of women. Uh and I've had I've had brushes with them that I would just rather not be in their path and the way that I felt I could do that was was was being as unattractive as possible. And just dressing for me and doing what like I wanted to do. And if I was unattractive to men as a byproduct it out. I was quite happy with that. So it I guess like to uh kind of man you're talking about. Yeah. It's It's very scary. to see a woman who doesn't need you. And who has no interest in Um subjugating themselves to your needs. Because there's a lot of power there. Yeah. What's my role? Yeah. You know, if she's not trying to impress me and not trying to dress for me, that means she's her a whole person all to herself. Let's talk about Your relationship with your weight because it's really interesting thread in the show big. Mm. Is this contradiction between between the way you see yourself, yeah, the way the world sees you. Then Those two Different sort of Army's. Come together when you get very ill. So could you talk maybe the show's called Big. I think you originally wanted to call it fat bitch. Yeah. Yeah. Fat bitch, yeah. Maybe we could talk about your relationship with words like big or fat over time. Yeah and how that sort of evolved. Yeah, um 'cause you've talked up until now about how It served you in lots of ways and you've not expressed any kind of like negativity towards To being to being large. No, because you can you can save that as well, John. Don't worry. Like you say like that like I always like So I think there's like two things. I've a I have an eating disorder. And Uh And I And I benefited quite a lot from being fat because it took me out of the marketplace. I didn't want to be in the sexual marketplace or whatever. Even though that doesn't actually work, which is annoying. Uh, you know, to avoid stuff, but like Um I think Being a public person, being fat. You're you're you're way more aware of w like People's perceptions of you. before I started doing stand up comedy, I knew I was fat. I would get called fat in a nightclub. But I was probably being I felt like I was being call fat in a nightclub because I'm trying to take this man off my friend. Do you know what I mean? And go dancing or whatever. So Like I knew my like Probably a lot of the times where I'm being called fat was by men who were frustrated. that I wasn't letting them get off of my pal or whatever. I and I don't mean it in like they were attacking my pal. I just I just was a fat friend who would sometimes want to fuck with Mess. I'm going, You're not you're not you're not I'm not getting a taxi on my own tonight. She's coming home with me. We came out together. You know? 'Cause in some ways what you're describing about You know? being really comfortable dressing for yourself. Yeah. Not needing other people's validation of of how you look. Is the sort of narrative arc that people spend years Getting too. And It's almost like you have it in built in you. Mm. where your health suffers so much from a couple of conditions which we'll talk about. Yeah. That someone says to you You got to lose weight. Yeah. So you're sort of having the body positivity story in reverse in a sense. I totally am. So maybe maybe talk about the illness that led that led you to that. Yeah. I think why I felt like that is there was other I think Being fat was like the least of my problems. Do you know I wasn't going to counselling for being fat. I was fat as a as a byproduct of, you know. I think and like uh the reverse So I'm I'm friends with a lot of people that are big in the body positivity movement and I never felt like I wanted to be involved in it because I didn't feel Like I I don't know what went on with me. Uh I genuinely don't know. But I was very neutral and stuff. And so So when my friends Posts and it go. I feel like this about myself. I'm like I don't feel like I like I felt as a fat person that I should feel I have the right to feel the way I feel about my body, the way a thin person does. So if a thin person doesn't like their body Good you know, I'm not gonna stop them and go You know, and I feel I feel like fat people aren't given the room to do that. And my friends who kind of started making money off being Positive. Then could never tell their full truth on stuff. So I always felt like To say I felt more nuanced is horrible because I feel like nuanced is like Loaded with like being morally better or whatever. No, but this is why your show is so good, because actually in a sense it's easier to discuss it in stand up. Yeah. Because it's quite difficult to find the right words because it's a very It is a very nuanced position you have. Yeah. And it's it's I guess especially consuming a lot of stuff. from social media. It's either like there's the haters. Yeah. Or people who are sort of super happy with how they look. Where it's actually Very few people. Thin, normal. in love with every single part of themselves. Yeah. Why do we have to pretend that like Why in order to be a person that's listened to? Do we have to pretend We feel Like I feel like people only give I feel like people Only say the Truth about themselves. In like a little soundbite that they give as an aside. a bigger point that they're making. So it'll be like Uh like I don't think I could ever write a book. And and this sounds really unfair 'cause it sounds like I'm accusing other people of telling people how to feel about themselves and I'm not saying that. But like I know deep in my heart. I shouldn't be listened to. about self esteem or about Anything. Like I'm thinking to John. Wait there. Ask me the question again. I think I've probably forgotten what it is. I'm so sorry. No no no I am riddled. Riddled of hate what I was gonna say This there's a really good quote that might help us here because you you w you wrote I was sick of people having an opinion on my appearance and telling me I have the potential to be something. I was something already. Yes. And you're not necessarily saying I was perfectly happy with everything about myself. No. Or I wanted to be fat for the rest of my life. Yeah. You're just saying I am a thing. Yeah. I am a person. I exist on my own terms. Yeah. And stop trying to put me on some kind of spectrum of success or failure or happiness or sadness. I am. And you talked about being neutral. That's such a like Zen I mean actual Zen place to be neutral. On an issue. is really interesting because that's not something we have a lot of ex exposure to currently in the world. I know. Like neutrality or even not having an opinion. Yeah. When I find it so I've found so So for the past year I've been discussing publicly uh my weight loss or about being on Mount Jarrell or various stuff. And I've had messages from people who were quite like, uh I had a really interesting conversation with someone online. And they were upset with me because they felt that I was Uh Because I had lost weight and I talked about losing weight. that I am now putting myself above people who haven't lost weight. Which I feel like that's the sam I've tried very hard. to not do that 'cause I don't see myself The messed up thing is. Two years ago was the fineest I ever used really happy relationship was on pointless. Life was great. And I know that I know someone Who's deleted all pictures of themselves. Um When they were fatter. And What drives me insane about that is like this person has got married when they were fat. kid when they were fat, their career as well was at a peak when they were fat. Probably. I'm not being horrible, but I don't think they're ever gonna achieve what Point. They would rather not have that publicly remembered. Because they were fire. And that makes me so sad because it's just like what is the point in of living y your life? I think the other thing is I was around a lot of fat people who were like, I'll go on the holiday when I'm thinner. I'll do and I because I had no intention Of losing the weight. I wasn't waiting for I didn't want to go out with someone being in a romantic relationship was not something I I I ended up being in a romantic relationship with someone for a long time. But when I met him, I wasn't looking for that. So it wasn't as if I was like, Well, I'll get a boyfriend when I'm thinner or I'll do this when I'm thinner and it it's like, you know, I start it did stand up when I was fat. I started stand up when I was fat. Everything Ever been really great in my life I did while I was fat. I still am fat, by the way. I know I like that some yeah. It's so weird. I'm chatting to you. And like I just have all these imaginary comments in my head of the thing underneath 'cause I've done I've talked about being fat and they put clips up and then there are people there going like, oh, this is like the before and before picture. And I'm like, oh, fuck off. Like but uh it's kinda funny. It's very difficult when you have lost a lot of weight because you can't hide that life change. No. You know, so For example I have gone from being a person who drinks to a person who doesn't drink. Yeah. I don't have to tell anyone about that. Yeah. Like I meet an old friend. Yeah. I don't have to say, I've had this big change and here's why it happened and this is how difficult it's been and this is blah blah blah. And this is how I feel about alcohol or this is how I feel about other people that are still drinking alcohol that you have to And this is my political stance on drinking or anything like that. Yeah. Whereas you walk into a room with someone you haven't seen for a couple of years and they'll be like, Holy fuck. Yeah. You've lost a lot of weight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you said you were really pleased when Someone said to you, You know you're still fat, right? Yeah, I know. Because Jade Addams Because it's not someone going Oh wow, great things have happened to you. Yeah. Because actually great things The reason why this has happened so let's talk about your illness. Illness. Well let's maybe not talk about it in too much detail because I'm more interested in the difficult stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you got really ill. Yeah. You had cellulitis. Yeah you then got septicemia. Yeah. So you're in hospital in a bad way. And Is it your aunt? Yeah. So this in the show you talk about basically having a little intervention with you. Yeah. About your weight. Yeah. Experience. Well It was Well I was a captive audience because it was on a drink. Ha ha ha. And uh yeah, but um Uh S She never discussed with me. My wait before. And uh she is a Finn woman. So And I knew as well, just by like You know, I didn't we never had a discussion about my weight. Um And It it was great timing on her behalf that she's like, right, she's in a hospital bed now. I'll talk to her about it. And uh Uh most of my family are fat. Um So Uh, I suppose What am I trying to say? But I w I'm definitely the fattest out of them. And I was the first one, I think I said it in the show, like the first one to have her wings clipped, like You know, the first one to have a hospital based The horrible thing as well, by the way, J John is like when I talk about this People will correct me and go. Being fat is not a cause of cellulitis. It's a it's a risk factor. And there is a difference between it and I don't want to be I don't want to be talking in a way to like Like I lost weight. Because I nearly died. And that's my truth, but I don't want to be I don't want to be held as like some sort of little Sick. for other people to beat fat people with to go like, Well, she's done it or she did it for her health, why can't you do it for your health or whatever? Yeah. It's like I wasn't It was the first time where m my health was on the line. And fortunately that came about when Mount Jarro was available. 'Cause I don't think I would have done it. I I don't think I would have done it without the injections. I never tried before. And uh And also not massively in favor of the injection companies. I think they're absolute pricks. 'Cause they've like doubled the price. Uh Like I know Trump has something to do with it, but I think it's very convenient that people have been on it for about two years and it started working for them. And then all of a sudden The price goes up massively. Yeah. Yeah, that's just my little thing about the the jobs. Um Well what what was the Well let's maybe go into something you said. It's very scary to nearly die and I could feel my organs. It was a we I'd never I'd never You know, I'm in my early thirties, I've never ever had to come to I can't imagine myself dying. Still can't, even though I nearly died. Also the the world of weight and its interaction with health is far more complex than people make out, especially when they are Trying to sort of shame people into losing weight. Yeah. And there's There's really interesting stuff about The impact that weight has in the sense that If you are overweight and your doctor is mentioning it. no matter how much it relates to your whatever condition you have. it means you're gonna stop accessing healthcare. Yeah. Because you don't necessarily want to that lecture again. Often people who are fat. have symptoms put down to weight that are nothing to do with weight. So things like cancers get missed. My friend has lupus and didn't get diagnosed with it until she started losing weight. And then they're like, Oh, the inflammation is to do with lupus. Yeah. She's had lupus all her life. But because she's fat. Uh It's it was we wasn't diagnosed until then. And it's just so when you see the graph of weight versus mortality. proportion of those people who die inadverted comers because of their weight. Yeah. Well, maybe, but it might be because by the time the doctor looked for the tumor It was too late to operate. So you died. a fat person, but you didn't necessarily die because you were a fat person. Or if you did, it was because you weren't taken seriously. The tumor became morbidly obese itself. And also in terms of like areas where th there's an awful lot of poverty may not have access to as good health care as areas where there is a lot more money around. Yeah. So This whole world. is I guess you're conscious of that when you're saying it's not like I got an illness because I was fat and I lost weight because I didn't want to die. But Weight is playing is playing a part in this story. Yeah. It is and it's like the thing of It's like Do you know what it is? Being fat is like having it this is This is an analogy I'm coming up with now, and it might not be the best. I'm gonna say I think being fat is like having an XL bully and it's a protector. And the XL bully is there and it's great. But my XL bully, unfortunately, turned on me. And I had to put it down with a jab. Uh, that's sorry. Here we go. So your your aunt has this sort of intervention with you. Yeah. And as someone who has neither been particularly ashamed or proud of their weight. Yeah. To know that there's been a conversation going on about you from my own family. Must have been really difficult. Especially 'cause a lot of them are fat as well. So that Um no, the thing is, uh, do you know what? 'Cause my aunt had the infringement with me. The thing that was really scary was none of the doctors. Talk to me about being overweight. And I realise that's 'cause Because they were trying to save my life because they couldn't get my temperature down. Because Bound. And I think that's the thing that really it was I think it was like my aunt was having this conversation with me. Also the doctors for it because It wasn't as if I was going in to get a contraceptive. or it's going in for the flu or whatever any time that I went in other times to the doctors and they would talk about my weight would be something really unrelated. to what I'm going in for. Uh, which made me not listen to them. I'm like, right, well I got the flu, so if we can sort that out. You know. Um Me doing twenty star jumps isn't going to You know, uh It's not gonna stop me getting pregnant. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly. I think I said What was that I said before? said it stand up with the doctors I was getting the coil in. And the doctor's like, you do need to lose weight and I was like, No, it's fine, I'm getting fucked already. Like this is you don't have to worry. This is half of it. Um But yeah, when my aunt had the inf intervention with me. And then the doctors said like you have sleep apnea, you have pre diabetes, and you The cellulite is. Uh so I felt like I felt like that was the holy trinity of fucking around and finding out, really. So are you glad that intervention now happened? Did it cause enough pain? That spurred you on to Do something. Yeah. Like It was very Like I did thank her, 'cause it's a lot it's very brave to do that. Like to be the the representative and say that and she did it 'cause she loves me. You know, she's not on Instagram a father of two. Just calling me facts have been on daytime television 'cause he's angered. So when when you decide to Lose weight. Yeah. I'm guessing I'm assuming. There's sort of two you've got two parts in your brain. There's the person who's perfectly happy with the size you are. Yeah. through the intervention with intervention from your aunt and also from the nearly dying. Yeah. Is like, okay, logically I know I need to Lose weight. Yeah. 'Cause I've still got like two massive holes in my legs. Yeah. Oh, it's mad. Like septosemia is Awful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like body heart. It's like there I did have a joke before and I never made it into jokes like if you do want to feel good about yourself, like if you hate the topsy rhymes, try having two massive seeping holes in your calf. You will never give a shit about your flabby arms ever again. It's like It's a yeah, it's a it's a horrible thing to have. So how did Um Did the injections If there hadn't been the injections Yeah I'd be fucked. Because the the the person who doesn't care what size you are wins. Yeah. Because the logical brain is not it's just not strong enough to kinda go You've got to do this and you've gotta do this three times a week and you've gotta do it's just like nah, sorry, the powerful person here is the one who's just absolutely fine. So w the was the injection away of not having to have one of those people win. There was no conversation. Yeah. 'Cause it was like This is fucked. Yeah, yeah. This is yeah. It's kinda weird how There were two people in my head. And uh You know, the person who was going I don't hate myself was also the person who was like, I am eating my feelings. So Like It's It's uh It's scary. Leaving the hospital and going, right, okay, I'm gonna make some changes. And then I'm just eating all the time was like I cannot like it was just so I didn't know I didn't eat in disorder until I tried to lose weight because before it's like well everyone eats their venous. Mm. Everyone does this, everyone does that. You watch Bridget Jones in a lot of ice cream 'cause she got dumped or whatever, you're like, That's cool. You know you know. It's always like Bingy and then popular media is the depiction of like She's not getting on well. You know? And there I had a shit life. So I was like, Well I'm just not getting on well. So I can I I have my vice and it's fine. And then when I tried to stop it, it was really scary 'cause I was like, I don't want to die. But the compulsion to eat was stronger than wanting to live. And that was messed up. I never wanted to lose weight because I wanted a partner. I never wanted to lose w I didn't like I didn't like exercising. I couldn't. I couldn't walk. you know, very, very far distances 'cause I was quite fat, but I also was like I don't like I don't like walking. There was nothing that compelled me to lose weight before. So I never had to come face to face with the fact that I just compulsion date was Very, very strong. I mean it it's don't want to constantly relate things back to drinking drinking, but the it's the same mechanism. Oh yeah. But it's That it's so much of what you're saying. rings true for my experience of Person who is terrified of Drink. And the person who's terrified of not drinking. And there comes a point where they're like having a fight with each other. And you don't know who's gonna win. No. Um, and if you had said to me There is a An injection you can take. means they don't ever have to speak to each other. I would have paid I would honestly all the money I had to have to go through that. Yeah. Or to to just be able to never think about it again. Yeah. be such a relief. So How is your Now that you're on the injections, my understanding is that they sort of take away food cravings or you know, they make hunger less of a sort of powerful sensation? What's the experience in your body? People call it food noise. I'll describe it as like How do I So It's it's weird 'cause like I know my relationship with food is not normal. and never was nor I don't know whose relationship with food is normal and it's the w it's a It's a So I wake up in the morning and I'll have Breakfast. And I'm full, and I don't think I ever felt full. Stop eating because it was Socially unacceptable to continue even to the to the degree I wanted to. And if I was on my own, nobody's seen so that's fine. Um best way to script 'cause I'm a comedian. Uh before I was on the jobs I've been working at eight o'clock and then I'm finished work at ten. Then I have my dinner after work. So I have my dinner at eleven o'clock and what's available to me is kebabs or whatever. And That's the time I have my meal, but it would also be tinged with how did the gig th go. So if the geek went shit. I'm gonna get myself Chinese. 'Cause like it's a comfort. I deserve it. And then I'm gonna think about Like Them poor. Then I got Well I got a Chinese meal for one. Let's see what the best options are and I'll spend like forty minutes. You know, doing the maths in my head of like the most that I can get for the least amount of money. Um And if I've If had a if I've had a great gig, then I'm gonna celebrate. With a lovely Chinese. And it's gonna be the same process. And that doesn't happen anymore. Because I don't Like I eat food now for sustenance. And I have to eat food. Do I enjoy food as much as I did before? No. Like uh I don't know how much I was actually enjoying food, or what was a compulsion. And it feels it feels it feels weird to admit that. 'Cause a lot of people got never gone to jobs because I want to enjoy food and I love food too much to to let go of that. And I get it. So was your relationship with eating? different to your relationship with your weight. Yeah. Yeah. So were you Was that negatives about binge eating or the this feeling of eating More than you'd plan to that you wouldn't have about your size. It's weird. I don't think I felt like a sense of this is this is strange 'cause I've chatted to other people that have had binge eating disorders, which I think I have. Um And they would talk about like a sense of shame after eating. Um I had this weird thing of like it was the It was the ritual of eating. So it was this kind I think it was this thing of like when I was a kid and my mates and I would go to the shop, they would get like a They get some sweets, right? I'd get myself a Dr. Ucker pizza because it's two quid. And I knew that's good value for money and I'd bring it down and I'd I'd be investing my snacking. And I like or I got finished crispy pancakes. I'd always go to the freezer aisle of my convenience store. Because I had two quid and my friends had two quid, but I knew that I could get a pizza, which is a significantly bigger thing than a bar of chocolate and a pack of crisps. It's mental. But it's also I know other people from Irish backgrounds. Yeah. who a big thread through their families is Scarcity complex. Yeah. And that's like generational trauma. Yeah. From extreme poverty. Yeah. Because even if Even for those who have plenty of money. If you're great. Grandparents. Nothing. Yeah. They brought up your grandparents with an attitude of we've got nothing. Yeah. And that kind of goes down the generations. And I suppose in my childhood like there was like an element of we had money. Uh for a while. And then we had No money. They lived in like big poverty for about like two or three years. And so And there was no sense safety with that. 'cause my dad is self employed and he's a builder. And if if you're the child of a builder you know January, shit month. December probably a shit month as well because of the weather. So I is like mm my association with and unfortunately I'm self employed as well now. Which is like this annoying thing of like Money to me. It's weird of me with money as well, like uh Do you think if you come from a poorer background there's a part of me that feels like I don't deserve money? And like savings and stuff. Like I I have friends like have a financial uh literacy that I do not have. Um And uh yeah, I I see money as like a thing that's very temporary. Almost to the point of Well there's no point saving it, 'cause it'll be gone anyway. And I'm gonna like January's gonna be shit anyway, so why not have a good November? Mm. Yeah. I should point out that when I say I know people from Irish backgrounds who have that. Because there was an enormous famine. Not because Ireland is more Has this Particular problems that I mean there are people in England and all over the world with scarcity complexes as well. Look. But when you have a shared We're probably gonna get counseled together. It's gonna be fine. It's messed up. I met someone Who Uh has been through famine. They saw me talking about my binge aid disorder and he was crying. Then I'm like Man. been through famine. Like this is like your empathy. I felt I felt so bad about my own problems. Like this man is incredible. Sorry to just want I just wanted you to know that I've met someone interesting. So what were the what was your early interactions with food when the jabs started to kick in? What were they like? Were you sort of like walking into a an interaction with food going. I'm on kind of a new territory here. Yeah. I but I'm not hungry. This is I'll say this and like people be His stuff. I f like I don't think it's like Acceptable. But the first few weeks that I was on it. Uh one day I went without eating for a full day 'cause I was like, What does that feel like? And I didn't feel bad. Yeah. It was mental, which is like Shouldn't do that. But I did. Um, so my relationship with food was totally warped and changed and needed to Change it like a a got very into protein. And then very into fiber because of too much protein. That you have to Like I have experienced I mean When I stop drinking. Yeah. I kinda went mad. Yeah, I d I went a bit mad. Because Yeah. Every single part of your nervous system and your body and your Logical brain is crying out for the Coping mechanism. Yeah. And it's gone. That's gone. I'm I'm really finding that difficult at the moment. I think that's why I cry a lot more in public. Yeah. Totally. I'm like as tearful now as I was when I was hung over and full of self pity and anxiety. So have you noticed Have you had to consciously put in Way uh ways to be comforted, ways to express yourself. Ways to be soothed. There aren't food. I think because I was paying money, I am still paying money for the injections. Um But because it was taking quite a lot of my take on pay. It like It's a significant expense that like Probably I really can't. I'm not m I'm not saving any money for my future because of spending it on Monjaro. 'Cause I'm a comedian that doesn't earn that much, you know. So I got obsessed with the idea of trying to maximise the nutrition I can get in a day. So I'd be like, Oh, I'll have blueberries, kiwis, all these c type of all these types of uh I never cared about before when I was like fat. Like it I just ate when I wanted to eat. And it didn't matter to me what was in it. And because I don't enjoy food. As much anymore. I just do eat for sustenance a lot. And I I and I I had to have a word of myself. Because I was being a bit quite I was just bringing jerky with me everywhere. And doing smiley burps. It's not acceptable. You know? But have you needed other sort of tools in your toolkit? to replace food. Yeah, but I haven't found that yet. Okay. That's the annoying thing is that like I have all these feelings that I can't name. This is the thing, like Like I'm at a place where like So I can't eat my feelings anymore. Which is great, but now I have to feel my feelings, but I don't know how to identify those feelings 'cause I've repressed them for so long. So I um I'm like This past year has been a weird thing of me, like Just uh being with myself as a person in that. Price just feels uncomfortable. I wish I was a bit like if we'd have this conversation in a year, I would hope that like uh I'd be in some form of change. But at the moment I'm in this weird kind of flux state. of like I don't have enough money to get counselling. I should get counselling. It's either Mount Jarrow or counselling. So Did you ever have this? I don't know, like of like You know, your life's a bit Fucked. And You're like, I know what I need. But I don't have the things in place to help me get what I need yet because I need to earn more money. Or I need to I need to be in a pl uh in a different place. And it's like that's what I need to do. No, um I mean from sort of slightly further down the road. Yeah. You've almost stumbled into the sort of perfect situation because what you said there in your answer Is I'm feeling a lot of stuff, but I'm not yet able to identify it. And I'm having to sit with discomfort. Yeah, I hate it. But that's it. That's the that's the coping mechanism. I know, but I'm not enjoying it. I know. You know that's the thing. Oh Christ. Yeah. But you're pro the you're doing It's like reps in a gym. Yeah you're doing sitting with that discomfort. overeat, how people don't drink, how people don't take Coke. It's like I don't actually need to escape from this. I know. I do gigs to escape from it. Like I like to be I'm like single now as well. So it's like this weird thing of like being in a house on my own. I'm like, Ugh. Like I listen to podcasts so I don't listen to the thoughts of my head, which I call nature's podcast. Which is like No You know, uh And it's weird how like my job relies on me listening to my own thoughts, feeling stuff and then relaying that to the public, but I really, really hate it. But that's also a I'm like a footballer who really hates training. You know? Yeah, but you're also doing training you don't know you're doing. Yeah. But Me saying sitting with discomfort and feeling your feelings as uncomfortable as that may be is part of the solution. Also doing stuff that you really like. Yeah. That is kind of good for you. is part of the solution as well. So I don't think, you know, we all need to sit in pain for the rest of our lives. But but doing a gig, expressing yourself, writing. Listening to stuff, distracting yourself is all is all like good as well. I'm a big person for distracting myself though. And like people have told me that's not like phone my friend my friend phone. Who I do a podcast with and stuff. I I said this to you. Before but she does say like 'Cause I'm so bad at saying how I am. And I'm very good at like going through massive crises and hiding away like a little hermit and then coming out of it and going to my mates. They're like, Are we? And I th Oh, well the past month this, this and this has happened. She's like, Well why didn't you reach out to me? 'Cause I'm like, 'Cause I'm sorting out. It's fine. I don't want to be a burden on anyone. And now and the way it's the same with the punch in the jack of tail just I'll just let stuff build up, have a nice little breakdown, fuck my life up for a couple of months and then go back on the same cycle. And it's like this weird kind of Like I will be truthful about how I feel when I do stand up. Like I I cannot It is weird how I'm so afraid of being a burden on my own friends. Or my family. And I love them and they love me and like that's the contract we have together, but I've this weird thing of like no. No, I'll I'll sort that myself and then you know. Or I'll come to you when I'm in a worse state. When I'm in the worst that I can be. I could've could have could have sorted this out a month ago. Could've asked you for a lender two hundred quid to sort out this thing, you know. Now I'm now going to jail. Whatever. I did want to ask briefly the reaction to the emergence of weight loss jobs. Yeah. Has really shown People's prejudice towards Weight loss in the most incredible way. Yeah. And it's also raised complex questions about people who are also anti them. And I wondered What your thoughts were on that, because I I've had conversations with people who go Oh, either the side effects. Oh, they can't wait for that as well. They're praying for a special type of cancer. And you're like, You know what I mean? It'll kill you in four days. They're like, Yes. But there's also side effects to Being Really fat. Yeah. And that's not to say that Everyone who's fat needs to be stressed. But it's And then this People saying you know, it's cheating. Yeah. Yeah. Thin people saying it's cheating as if somehow weight loss has to be a punishment for a sin th or um some moral sort of weakness. So what's your like But the thin people that say that I think it's like uh this take has been said before. Uh But this is how I feel about it. I do feel like with some thin people. They're like, Well I by virtue of being Finn. uh have some sort of moral superi superiority. to fat people because like uh maybe I've been through a trauma but I haven't eaten my feelings to that extent or Uh, you know, there's so many different reasons of why people become fat. And uh Like uh I think there's I think some people fat people are stupid because Uh Why would you be fat when society treats you like shit? Uh, surely there must be you you must be stupid. There must be an intelligence thing there because to make your life better. Uh through what they see as like Your health or You know, like There wasn't like I lost weight. Because of the health thing. But also when I started losing weight, there was this messed up thing as well, where I was like less people are being shitty to me. People are being nicer to me. And then I was like There is this fear I have now of becoming fatter because I knew 'cause I got I got treated so much worse when I was fatter. And I don't want people to treat me like that again. Mm. That's a bit mad to have that over you. I think like when I was fat I was like I wasn't aware of how badly I was being treated. And now that I'm getting thinner was I'm so aware of it. And it makes me so afraid. That's really that's really fucked up. sorry to swear so much in the podcast, but it's really messed up how like Um Yeah, I don't I don't ever wanna be treat it that way again. So I think there's this thing of But There are several reasons why people have problems with fat people. The intelligence thing, there's people that are worry for the health. people who look at people being fat as hedonistic and giving in to their base desires. Um And there's this other part of them. There's this other part of people as well that would go people are being treated like this, yet they still remain fat and I don't want to be treated like that fat person. So I'm gonna try my best to not be fat and why can't they do the same as me? And it is it's like a Like it was very, very difficult for me to lose weight without Manjaro. And the people that have done that, 'cause there are people who've gone through trauma. And last way. And that must have been very difficult for them. I have a friend who went through counselling to help her with the eating disorder that she had. You know, uh And that's incredible that she did that. That took a lot of time. That took a lot of time for her to do that and I didn't have that time. Uh I felt I didn't have that time and I was really afraid. There are people and I go on Reddit a lot. Uh that's where I Find my information about you know, 'cause there's sulfur burps. There's all these different side effects to the The Mount Jarrow. Um You know, some people get them, some people don't. So um so I go on Reddit a lot to see what people are saying about, you know, the price hike. Or whatever, or people keeping it a secret from their family. I never wanted to keep It is secret 'cause I knew I was losing weight and I didn't want people I didn't want stolen valour. I don't want people I don't want people going to me, Congratulations. You're so great for doing that. That w so because that gets to the heart of The question I suppose. Yeah which is Why would anyone feel they needed to keep Taking a medication. To treat a condition. The secret. Oh, because there's judgment over it. There's massive judgment over it. Uh because it is seen as an easy way out and it's an out. Yeah, but this is where my head explodes 'cause if someone says to me You know, if I go to the doctor and they say, Well, there's two things we can do. We've got the easy way out, which is this pill. Yeah. Or Here's a really difficult route. Yeah. Or go, can I have the easy? Can I take the pill, please? Because being fat it's like a Calvinist thing. It's like my body is a moral is a moral choice to some people. They look at me and they go, She's made that choice. Um She's mentally ill and she's inflicted this on herself. Um So It should be as difficult as possible for me because I should atone. for the sin of being fat in the first place. To teach you a lesson. To teach me a lesson. And that's by and like we've had it with T V the biggest loser, all of this stuff. There's nothing Prime time television watching was to watch a fat person have an asthma attack on a On a on a cross trainer. And to see them in difficulty and see to see them breathe difficultly and go Right, that's what you get. That's what you get. For your Dr. Uckers. Yeah. You know? I find it so fascinating. But the the way that people talk about food to go like hoovering stuff up or like you're a bin. But even like Very like uh a very parallel thing. Like if they found a cure for lung cancer that was from smoking. Yeah. No one uh peop no one's gonna Say that's cheating. Yeah. That's very true. Yeah. It but it's but but like or livid all liver cirrhosis. Yeah. Reverse liver cirrhosis suddenly. But people are a bit mental about alcoholics getting liver transplants and stuff. They go mad at like I don't think there's like The sh the shaming on a sort of Yeah. to a sense in a sense everyone has sw swallowed the red pill about weight. Even I when I started like looking into body positivity or just even honest like assessment of facts about weight. Yeah. I found myself Going, Oh wow, I didn't know that. I had made assumptions. And made judgments about people based on their weight. Yeah. Um And like even living in uh when I've lived in like quite poor parts of London. Going. Oh yeah. If I didn't have a bit of money Within a m a miles walk of my house, there's nothing that's good for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and most people spend most of their lives within a miles walk of their house. Exactly. So what are my options? You know. Yeah, you're so right. But it's like But people don't wanna talk about that. U Because you have to like Not every fat person is fat because they're mental, but Some people are. I would say I am, right? Uh and Well also some people are just fat. Not everyone becomes fat from some mistake. I know. But mine is like mine is through I like if I had to if if I had to pin it down of why I'm fat, it's the binge eating, it's drawing up poor. It's also You know, my family as well. Like there's the genetic I think there's just so many reasons. Why I'm fat. And none of them are bad? Like none of them are evil. What a great note to end on. That's really fantastic. Thank you so much uh for coming on, Alison. I love talking to you. And Definitely an issue where Yeah, you could do a whole You could do a weekly podcast on all of this. Yeah. There's so much stuff. And I'm aware that at times Both of us may have a been desperately trying to sort of caveat caveat ourselves into sort of not Because you're so worried you're gonna be taken the wrong way by not explaining everything, but we just didn't have the time necessarily. Yeah, that's the hard thing about talking about this, is just like I can say I can say it so many times that like Do you know what the hard thing is like lose the weight and then Talking about y your life and like talk about it in a positive way would indicate that you feel Like it's so Crying now, but I think it's 'cause I it's because we're coming to the end of it and like crack one out. But I think it's 'cause like Um You're supposed to like look back at you're supposed to like grow. you're supposed to like look at yourself from two years ago like that's like I've I've I've achieved so much since then or whatever. And I said I have lost weight since then, but also I thought she was pretty cool. Two? Two two. Yeah, it's a weird thing of like Like she wasn't a mistake. It just yeah, it's this weird thing. Of like Excepting that you're like Sorry, what have I got a tissue? Amazing. You need some Yeah, it's just uh Oh thank you so much. 'Cause it's it's funny when I cry it comes straight out the nose. Like not the most I'm like one of those Play Doh things. Um yeah, it's just like You get praise. Well be the people that are lovely. And I get it 'cause they actually It is hard to do this way. So Like I I get I do get why people go nuts. Done that or whatever. 'Cause it's hard. But it's like it just It just does feel like Uh A little betrayal of the person. Before. Mm. If I didn't get sick. probably wouldn't have lost my I don't think I would have. I don't think the like Yeah, I'm struggling to think of what would have been the The breaking point because like, you know, I got called a fat cunt so many times and it didn't make me wanna you know, so That wasn't making me want to do it. So um It's this it's this weird thing of like looking back and I'm like Uh I thought she was pretty cool and she was having a good time. And uh I don't feel ashamed of her at all. And 'cause the thing is as well, it's like maybe maybe these is you know the way people are like, What if the jobs give you an illness or something? What if they stop working? Good, you be done. We don't know. I could become fatter again. And am I gonna am I gonna look at myself go Back to this. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's we it's weird to like It's weird to only feel happy with yourself in a certain state because we don't know what state we're going to be in. In a couple of years. It's like I remember once I won't stop talking about like uh I did said it was a referendum in Ireland. I was giving out flyers and this woman came up to me. I think it was a size twenty two, twenty, quite fat. She was about the size I am now. And she was on a different Political. spectrum to me. She goes, You're a fat bitch, right? 'Cause she knew 'cause I'm fat and like that was a bit and I go, You're a fat bitch too. And then she was like so shocked. And I was like, You are like one big life event from Become My Size. You were like a breakup or whatever. You you know, like I was just like, That's d anyone can become fat. Mm. Like you could yeah, you eat that and I think that's why people are so horrible to fat people. Is that is that they've a fear that they could become fat. And if they treat a fat person as horrible as possible. It be the thing that prevents them from becoming fat because they know how badly fat people can be treated. So yeah, they're sort of creating an environment that'll make it less likely for them to want to be in that environment. Yeah. I think. I do there's so many different reasons. As many reasons as why a person is is fat as why a person is mean to a fat person. Could be 'cause they really want to fuck him. Yeah, have that. Well We land on that. Why not? Thank you so much for joining us. That's fantastic and much more could be said, but I think you've done a an incredible job of Giving people an insight into your experience. Yeah. It's not fun. There you go. I felt like I could have talked to Alison for hours. I know many listeners will have strong feelings about weight and health and very differing relationships with food and size. And I think speaking at a point where her relationship with food and size and identity is still changing. to that from a position of neutrality is really interesting. Begs a question. applies to so many other areas. What happens if I don't take an immediate view? what happens if I remain curious and accepting. To have your weight used against you, whether you lose it or gain it, is an enormous amount to navigate, and I'm very grateful to Allison.