Running marathons and building confidence

Hello everyone. It's John here, just letting you know that I have written a book It's called Thirst, twelve drinks that Change My life. and it's out now. In many episodes of How Do you Cope You'll have heard me talk about my relationship with alcohol, and in writing Thirst, I wanted to explore what alcohol means. Why did it mean more to me than other people Why did it mean some things felt better? and why did it mean so many things went wrong I also talk about lots of other things you'll have heard me and my guests discuss on how do you cope? Meditation, physical pain, gratitude, trauma, and therapy There's even a chapter about my bum and its relationship with Buddhism. So if that piques your interest Thirst is out now, and the audiob book, read by me, is available wherever you get audiobooks from Hello and welcome to How you Cope with me, John Robins. This is the show where I speak to fascinating guests about the hardships they've overcome and the coping mechanisms that allow them to do so Today's guest is Sam Bagsaw Sam is a social media content creator whose videos center on his life with a stammer H experiences of going out and doing everyday things, such as ordering food in restaurants, millions of views. And you can follow him on TikTok at Stammer Experiences and on Instagram at Sam Underscore, Bagshaore, underscore Sam Stammer started when he was four. He underwent speech and language therapy I didn't find it to be hugely useful In twenty seventeen, he went to the MagGuire Program, an intense stammering course which teaches breathing techniques and exercises It also encourages people to speak to strangers on the street and finding this helped him Sam continued to do this after the course had finished. I came across Sam's videos on Instagram and immediately wanted to get him on the podcast to find out more. about his experiences of living with a stamma before deciding to share it with the world as part of his treatment Last year, Sam took part in the Brighton Marathon Raising funds for UK charity Action for Stammering Children Before we get started Don't forget that you can now watch every new episode of How Do you Cope on YouTube just search Howd you cope pod And you can of course listen to all episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And whether you're watching or listening, please do hit subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes For more information or to get in touch, head to howgcopePod. com for now Here's my conversation with Sam Bagshaw I do hope you enjoy it. Well, it's a very warm welcome to Howd you Cope to Sam Bagshaw. Hey Sam, how you doing You're doing good thanks. I really appreciate having man. Oh, no worries. I was just saying to you when you came in, I feel quite star struck because I watch so many of your Instagram videos that you're very you're like high on my morning menu of Instagram clips when I turn on and I just discovered your account Naturally through people sharing it online I'm sure you're very used to sharing clips of you interacting with people Pacticing, talking but something like an You know, this could be up to an hour long this podcast is a sort of different beast. We've got cameras here So my first question is sort of how are you feeling about something that isn't just you holding a camera in front of you Melam I do feel like I've got a lot more betterattery with it The more and more experiences I get demand look I'm more used to I'm getting it and I do try and control my nerves and not think about anything and Just relax and just pretend we're just having a chat and that's it, really. Well you don't have to pretend. So what do you If you feel yourself getting nervous about speaking in public or recording something like this What sort of techniques Do you have or have you learnt to sort of chill yourself out That was I do like to do a lot like meditateating and and I do try and relax with the breathing as well So when you say relax with breathing, what What What do you mean? I mean, what physically are you doing? just noticing it or breathing in a different way Well I'e string to get my birds out, then I like to take a deep breath in. thenen it can help blbe it It can help to push out the words sometimes And so we're obviously going to be chatting a lot about stammering and how it's affected you. But could Could you start by telling us some stuff about you that's not related to your speech Like, Who is some aside from the work you do to promote you know, awareness around stuttering. Well, u I've always I've always been like a quiet person because feel like if didn't ever stammer then I think I would be kind of like a quiet person still and When when I and younger I't miss out a lot of things so I'm trying to I'm trying to do any experience that I can do now I do like to trying ultimate sports and I'm into football and Me Madallas to matches and watch a few ads yeah And u I'm a really big family person. I like I like to have like a small group of friends I do find hing groups. So do befair one to one. And Jereim I'd just like to inspire and help people. by making my videos Are you doing the videos full time now? Mella I do work in a warehouse, but There has been a period like middle of that way I did have a better time off work and And I was able to post every day and Do me they b? Yeah? The conversation we're going to have, I don't know whether it's going to be like longer than normal or shorter than normal But I was wondering Are there things that I can do to make you more comfortable and sort of any tips for someone whoo's interacting with someone who's got a stammer Like is there's stuff that I might do that might annoy you or make it worse or make it better Maladice. I feel like Especially with the orerin. When I sometimes do that peoplee might You might try and like her guess what I wanted to say And you might get it wrong and then We have to try and go over it again until I'm again r. whichich can make my stoma worse because I just feel like I just needed to wait just a little bit more longer and then May be able to tell them and I do like it where Mope people for sure that they're interestested can hear and want to say? with eye contact and And just helping me, just helping me feel relaxed and It's help for me to think that it's okay Not in any rushs or anything, I yeah So it's not helpful for people to try and sort of predict what you're going to say and finish your sentence for you. because then if they get it wrong, you have to go through it all again Yeah, that That can make it harder for me to get my wors out if I need to tell him again then Yeah. So couldn't you start by like explaining what a stammer is Because I don't think a lot of people are really aware of what's going on when you're speaking and then struggling to speak and then speaking again. So could you tell us where it is in the b body, the mind, where does it come from, that sort of thing Well, then For me, it's like This was life a block where That's why That's why you can see mrugl in because u I am trying to push the word out and Sos' not wanting to come out of I know that other people have a stamered re much all in different ways But mind them Ms like a block where We just need to find a way to be able to get your word out and Artist I just think M just This just For gets my tened up and and People have asked me by my message is Do I get any pain from it? and I don't get any pain for it, but I have noticed if a vad like be a bad thow It kind of affect the solf a little bit more, but that's about it So could you describe like I guess you have a sentence in your head So for example, when you're doing a video ordering in a Pizza Express or you're the drive through You've got that sentence in your head, you've got the sort of the words in order And is it that something happens in your body when you start to go through that sentence out loud. Or is it a fear of stammering as well U'm Ma I try I'll try my best not miss time bother me because I know that I did just spin me down and that' someant I don't really may not talk as much because I thought to myself, what happens if I struggle really bad and I'm not able to get my words. So I'll try and We're trying to think about that as much now I do think that Sometimes I don't feel nervous, but But somehow my b here just start to get nervous like when And in a way I don't feel like it so and It can be hard and especially when I'm doing drive throughs when My I'm driving up, I feel f and then When I hear them say, When I h When hear they said the first words I'm certainly find it hard. so yeah Do you sorry if these are questions, you get asked a lot on social media is your Stama the same when you're on your own in the house say were sort of king to yourself or doing a an exercise to practice your speech Is it better then and gets worse in sort of in public or is it always pretty much the same. andm When I feel like I feel that about myself and I'm Pp not has still g as much But but it is still there because In fact, sudenly get a phone call from someone. then they can come back. Come back here I quite bad straight away we struggleing? And what sort of Tggers might make it worse. Are there certain words, for example or certain situations where you really pay yourself I' been asked about him If certain words, I do find it hard, but But we may I feel like it can be like anything I know for some people it's different Maybe I like avoid certain words, but I feel like I still go any with it so when I just feel like I' been doing some hare meet someone the first time RM If I know that I'm going somewhere where There's going to be large group of people because I do think about that where and I might find hard of hs to getting want to say because and If I do go be a group of friends I sometimes miss out on the conversation because If I want to join in. N I No matter how you just start add it It might really startorted talking about something else and I miss Mance That's why I've said I do prefer like smaller groups on one to one people Because with a lot of people, do you almost like need a signal for a group pause to go like it's my turn now Yeah, I can I think it affects it more to like music as well and then like, Hear a lot of people talking It just I just feel like it can be like a bit bit like too much was' your What's your first memory of your stamma Is it there back as far as you go or was did it come on at a certain age and it's quite hard to remember when You know, I'm really young, but Momum and dad in When I was old enough then That's why my speech are up there and in that school doing like one to ones and stuff because u I want to find it hard at school. I'll just say I was just trying to like Just get through the day and notot really get involved with people that much. I didn't I did have a small group of friends at That'll support him there and I did something f him. But oututside of school I saw them outside of school as well. But I just feel like I missed out on a lot y here So what was school like for you outside of that small group of friends Melan It can be hard as well because I do I do have a little bit of lightingicors When we're reading his spelling and L my maths as well. so I did find that hard, so I want to get extra support with that and then plus iniss speech as well because and Sometimes maybe if for a new answer I would just sl someone else onto it instead And u Maybe I came to like We like reading a the book I was nervous that they were going gonna to come aroundound to me I had to read like a sentence which I think I'll doing more of that like one to one with someone like the reading inside of it, yeah. So what was the first speech therapy that you were given? what was like the theory behind it and what was the approach that they used They were pretty much and How to start offwardds, like They were going for like the S's likeike u Maybe they say the first word more and then able to get through the word that you want to say So were they thinking that you ock is hitting at the start of words It's not you're not getting to like a second or a third syllable and stammering. It's It's hitting you just before Yeah, I feel like yeah And how were what were your sort of parents like around it? How were they very supportive of you and were they S of trying to get you the the help that you needed Yeah, they're really supportive and I know u I know that the pub didn't help me too much because u That's when I used to hide M Stammer I just just let people do the ordering for me do the phone call onere and That's pretty much do all we're talking for me really and I'm just really happy now that I mean was do all things Maybe do all you thinkking yourself now So I did get a lot of support in that way which you really do appreciate at the time but now Im really got that Now I'm not hiding it anymore, that Let me able doing everything that I want to do. Yeah Did you feel come to sort of feel as you grew up that By hiding your stammer, you were hiding all of you and sort of letting others do so much stuff on your behalf that it was important to push yourself to to stammer in front of people so that you could be a bit more present in the world Yeah, I did u I felt like that because I think people didn't want me to get stressed and worried and They didn't want me to have that pressure on me, that's why they're doing it for me as well because They knew and d N know that helped to help the way that I feel becausecause u I just werent they were confident back then and I think't have the confidence to do anything really so I'm just really happy that I'm showing everyone myself now and I want to help people not hide it So if a parent was listening to us now and they child is struggling with their speech has a stamma sort of advice would you give or reassurance would you give If they're thinking, well, what do I do? It's you know, my child gets embarrassed when They're speaking to a stranger, shouldhould I push them? Should I sort of communicate for them. what would you say I would say I'll say you can start a flight step by step Night just to practice with your family and close friends and just set of them Would you sometimes let me? We have to try it on the own and see how it goes and That way, if you're struggling There's people there around you that can L you maybe like her stepp in if you need to But they're giving you that chancelight. mter If you go out to a restaurant when you mom and d You can set to I not When the waitress comes up to table that you want to give it a try this time and That's a good way to get started and And just being around your friends We can set to him because what I used to do as well I show just message friendres and just text them I never used to follow it N used to film no faceetime anyoneore So you can definitely practice that way as well You can say to your friends What about to try like a phone call with you? and then And that gets that experience and And you never know they might You might want to keep phone with your friends after that, so yeah. 'cause I guess like messaging and whatsApp and stuff is in some ways a real G great way of communicating Yeah Do you think it would be unhelpful to lean too much into that as your only way of communicating. Yeah, because I feel like It will eventually come to situations Like if you want to book an appointment, That way you might have to talking the phone So these are some things that L we have to talk on their phone, but If you get support from your family and friends before that situation You be able to practice on film to them It'd be a lot more easy when it comes to that point So have you had either at school or after school negative reactions to your your stamma when you're communicating with people, and how have you dealt with that Yeah, um I've had I've read it where because for many people can see that I'm struggling and I've had it where People find it funny like the way that I look when I'm struggling have said about that? and and said about like Why the techang just get me word out and Sometimes a lot with say in name That can be hard and My people understand that. Do it in like a jokking way that That' say, I forgot my name and stuff like that. I've got a lot more better with it now. I always look at the positive Eespecially in my videos, I always look at the positive comments and I do get support home of people in comments because I do never get back to messages like that. I just like to not think about them And I know myself that I'm helping a lot of people And I just feel really enjoying getting myself out there. and showing people that I'm doing all different experiences. Got a. ple of friends with stammers or who have had stammers when they were younger And a few of them were taught different exercises or techniques, breathing exercises for how to get through words when they really need to and some of them involve like slapping the syllables out on there. parts of their body or like their thighs and stuff And some of them didn't actually want to talk like that. They didn't want to necessarily use those techniques So do you have like emergency rip cord stuff you can do for if you really need to get something out even if it's in a way you wouldn't want to speak Normally Well, um I do I do like to try and control it the best that I can do and is Just like it can be hard sometimes. and I just feel that for me and with my videos I do I do like to focus on the breathe in why' We were take it R take a deep breath in And I say a word after that So That does help But I feel like I'm getting a lot more better with that when u I'm doing videos in my room, but not my own I'm still finding it hard when I'm doing videos of people and When I'm doing that the ordering I just need to get used to contontrolling it outside of my bedroom and stuff like that more yeah So can you tell us about this place you he went on this course he did called the Mcuire prorogram was that technique and you in ways that previous speech therapy hadn't helped Heaven It really helps because it is It's a really intensive course Froriday course and what they do? As you get a bel You you get a bit around your chest. and then M you're doing the being techniqu You can feel it more L and them That's when you feel like that's when That's when you're meant to try and get your word out So it does help in that way So you breathe in enough that you You feel that belt around you sort of constrting a bit teaches your body how much breath you need to then go through with a sentence. Yeah That's right Yeah Do you ever wear the belt for sort of practice afterwards or is it just for those four days? and Ba. I do I do like to go back to it ever so often. U up there I h I should do it more often, yeah and of me I maybe Dunay Maybe I didn' it before I've startoped beforeing videos sometimes, yeah So take us back to the first video you recorded and released What What made you decide to do that? Was it something else you'd seen online or Was it a really useful way of practicing or was it a need to reach other people with a stammer who are perhaps feeling a bit isolated. Well u I did I did actually start another account I started doing like her fitness videos because I knew by doing them, I didn't I didn't to do any talking in them of the seven I would have shown different workouts But then When I researched if people were doingos B ofving a stoma And that's where I came across some people. people sharing their experiences I've in a stamma and then doing a lot of different kinds of videos And when I saw that That's what men may think I could maybe start an account me shing my extremenes and what's like I' a stama so. My first video is just in my room Older sharing I would just shame him like in the past different experiences that That might findine hard and just giving people information This about what timeer is. so that's That's what I started doing these videos like that and then the more The moreount more support I want get getting that will helping me push and That me challenging myself, more And that's when we're thinking I can rem do videos where when I't actually doing things in a video as that That's where it got me using him from Stard Experiences because I'd like to show I'll actually show me doing ob accounts experiences this Tama and I'm showing people that it It's not stopping me that you can do it and h especially with Jif fros I know that it's really easy to just go in there You know, I'm going more than bigy patchings and just This what J pick it what you want and then Then you get a number and then that's calledld and then you get you getver you want You don't know You don't have do any talking involving that, so I do like to show that You can still do a driver if you want to Does it mean that your diet's now really bad because you're always ordering food in dry foms? Well, that's probably why I am. I do like to do like the drinks ones as well, so it's not always food. Yeah That were the Starbucks Other things like that as well. yeah So how you're looking back at those early videos Do you notice a change in your stamma since you've started I guess forcing yourself to be in those situations on camera and in public and I do have days where Mark I cant see a big difference I think it's my confidence most mostly light My confence is not stopping from doing anything U that's the main thing the confidence. With Miss Anna Ionest feel like it can be bad sometimes, but The main thing is Main thing is that I'm not afraid to show it can I am showing Mrter Glaming videos which is really good that I feel because I feel like I feel like it's showing that it's not aect to in and I'm okay if I struggle whichich which I think people find really inspiring because Is what I' got about to about people hiding it and that me mebe That might make people think that that they can feel okay if they do struggle in front of people as well. But yeah I would say the confidence is the main thing that. that I' noticed. yeah So actually it's not so much about whether your stama improves or not, it's how you feel about it rememinds me of something. So I interviewed Richard Osman. And he's obviously really, really tall And he was talking about his son who's really, really tall and finds it quite difficult And he said, Well, you've got two options. You either The really tall guy who feels self conscious about it or youre the ready t guy doesn't So it's like I guess a version of that for you is you're either Sam who is trying to hide his stammmer or Sam who is putting it front and center Those are your two options really. So you're Your mindset is separate from whether you stand was good or bad that day or whatever Yeah, that's right. yeah.m because I do I do was see that I I do was struggle on that in one In one video and That's when I'm out I might get her peopleople com in that putting that knotlant I put in might not nice comments and But and But I know that I do get a lot of comments from a lot of support and people People saying that I'm doing really well just This should be brave enough to do the video itself. you've also started I don't know whether you've just started running, but certainly you've started doing videos of running and I wondered what? What like? exercises relationship with your stammmer is and the breathing of running, does that help the breathing that you're doing when you're speaking So I guess like What is exercise for you Yeah, ye I've actually noticed u And because I do go to a lot of running clubs And I have noticed When I'm really next to people, And we're both talking and It actually helps. I don't mean they stammerer too much and struggle I think it's because u I think it's because I'm doing something at the same time and that's affecting me breathing. as I'm running And that sound we make getting me words that more easier. So I feel like doing the running Is every helping his speech as well? Yeah So does running like regulate your breathing because you can't You can't hold your breath when you're running. you can try, but it won't last long So do you find that rhythm of the breath then just makes it so clear when when the opportunities to speak are Yeah, I feel like that's what happens, Yeahah, actually. And I think I've noticed after I run After I've done a marathon I feel like This timeer can be a lot more better And I think it's because the way that I'm feeling as well because Forom that moment my time embodyodies feeling all different things like I think that's the way that might take my mind off maybe having a stammer as well, yeah I mean long as I can resist saying I did the London Marathon two days ago So Pret pretty elite athlete And I can confirm that It certainly took my mind off other things in my life, but I'm not sure made me feel that much better about a lot of stuff. which marathons have you run Well, the first one, u I wasn't actually interviewing I got an email from one of the charities that I like to help him Aion for Staming Children Chout there And they reached out to me And they said Would you like to use a don one And demn I did take my time to think about it because because um I doing merchoing then and I think I think I pretty much only had like her four months to train for it and That would have been like doing no running events at all I'm going straight for a fm marathon straight away. And that's what I did. I say, yeah because I wanted to support the charity And I was able to raise a lot of money for him as well. So yeah, I'm really happy with that I was able to do it And ever since that event, I always been keeping on to running now I do a lot of ten K events. And I recent it notonger, I did put did the Sheheffroord half mathin as well So I might have a look at the in future but I'm not sure yet. It's very full on But if you go, I will find a spot to cheer you on Um So what How has it been like dating or speaking to people you fancy because I would struggle to get my words out in that situation and certainly have done in the past Is that a Is that a part of your life It's quite stressful when you're thinking about speaking or approaching people Yeah it can be definitely. A film I feel like that's the hardest part, yeah and because I just feel like I know myself that I A am I struggle quite bad at first, talking to him And I wouldon't want them to think that I'll be always like that with him This was obviously win for that first time So I do feel like maybe event where people not giveiv me a chance because You might think it's always that bad all times so I think I do Everyone's going gonna go and date ituff I think I do need that the second and third and maybe a bit more. just to see that I'm getting more comfortable with you, feeling more relaxed and They're be to notice Mis Amer not being as bad. I have actually tried and I've been them I've been to a speed an event before All right. And u I never thought of that. That'll be it good for doing that because A we thinking that you only have a certain amount of time to talk to him? M find a ston glay in light at that Mat know' here I I might't even talk much to him and but I still went through it and You want to You had four minutes with them and Yeah it Felt like it is okay, we you I said as much as I could say, but and I that the other person say as much as they can say as well? So I thought Well we could have said a bit more and And I think with that They are seeing You are seen a lot of Youall seen a lot of me struggling in that That about my time as well and But I'll just say I just don't really happ myself for end of it that I was able to just smile that because I might be the first ever person with was time as to do a spe day and I don't know And also like I think people really appreciate that vulnerability from someone and And I knowing men as I do. I think people probably also appreciate someone who's not necessarily like dominating the conversation and is listening because I guess you become in your life a really good listener. Yeah, and I film I feel like that's Being a good thing that I've noticed, yeah. ye I guess this is quite maybe a slightly Um odd question, but Do you feel You have a relationship with your stammer Do you feel it's like do you ever treat it as a sort of separate entity becausecause sometimes when I'm I don't know when when I may be struggling with how I talk to myself or like a physical pain I find that if I almost like give it a name H treat as a friend that I might tease or don't identify with it so much as being me It sort of lessens its its impact on me. So what's like your relationship with your stammer if that's not too weird a question Mel then I'n' saying that after I've definitely learned to like ac em bit more and And I do I do feel like it is a part of me and at some It's something that I'm always going to have and I just feel like it's some It's something that I do have to deal with I don't I don't want Don't it affects me how I feel. So That's why I feel like It's not affecting my confidence anymore, so that's good and name. it's not affecting me from doing anything that I want to do. So I just feel like in I've got la that I've got a lot more betterat to sits up to it now yeah. Well, Sam, Bagshaw, thank you so much for joining us on How do you Cope? It's been so great to talk to you And just to remind people you TikTok account is at Stammer Experiences And your Instagram account is at Sam Underschool, Bagshaore Underschool where they can follow your journey and support you and maybe sponsor you on some future running ventures U Thanks very much now If anguer it' really nice to meet and talk to you There you go, Sam Bagshaw, and I really can't imagine What it takes to put yourself in positions where you're going to expose something which gets worse with nerves But Sam was so relaxed coming in Even though he said to me afterwards that his stama was really playing up today during our chat And I know that doing things like this podcast will mean so much to those struggling with their speech