Final Reflections and Founder Advice

This message is brought to you by Apple Card. For a limited time when you get a new Apple card and purchase AirPods Pro three at Apple, you can earn back the cost up to two hundred and fifty daily cash. New AirPods Pro and up to two hundred fifty dollars bonus daily cash back? Now that's music to my ears. subject to credit approval, limitations and spend requirements apply. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch, terms and more at Apple. co slash Airpods. Success is a journey, especially when it comes to your finances One of the most common obstacles in our financial journey is dealing with high interest debt It can often leave people feeling trapped. doesn't have to If you're dealing with high interest debt There is a way forward A SoOFI personal loan could consolidate all your high interest debt into one low interest monthly payment, helping you craft a roadmap to paying down your debt It even comes with no fees required, getting you a financial win right away. pushing on your journey to financial success. You could even get as soon as the same day funding View your rate for a SOFI personal loan at soFi. com slash GIRS. Loans originated by SfI Bank NA, member FDIC Terms and conditions apply N M L S six nine, six eight nine one. Fast funds term apply at sofi d. com slash GyS Even if you want to take care of your mental health, it can be hard knowing where to start, and when you start worrying about the costs and logistics, you might talk yourself out of finding the help you need But fortunately, there's a rule up Rula makes it easy to access affordable, quality mental health carere with sessions costing an average of fifteen dollars with insurance They accept over one hundred and twenty insurance plans nationwide and actually show you your cost upfront. so you're not guessing or worrying about some surprise bill later Rulo focuses on quality care their providers and monitor outcomes, and ninety three percent of patients report feeling better and making real progress With Rula, you can find a therapist for your specific needs in as little as five minutes and even book an appointment as soon as the next day So instead of overthinking it, you can actually take the first step If you're ready to stop talking yourself out of finding care and making progress, then head to rula. com R youLA. com the first step. Hello and welcome to the Vviceeline on How I But this Lab. I'm Guy Ros. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on this show will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is one eight hundred four three three one two nine eight. Leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with Let's get to it Joining me this week is Milk Bar founder Christina Tosi, Christina Free tab you back on the show. welcome. Guy, I've missed you I know you too. many years. I mean You were on the show back in twenty nineteen. It was a live show. It was so fun. I remember that show. It was like jammed. People were cheering, they were so excited to see you. If anyone listening has missed that episode, go back and listen. We'll drop a link to it in the show notes. So check it out. The basic story. Milk Bar started in two thousand eight. Christina had opened up the first milk bar where they popularized, she populariz cereal milk Ice cream compost cookies. the now famous milk bar pie, which is insane Fast forward to today Their cookies and treats and ice creams are available at thousands of retailers, Whole Foods and spprouts and Walmart and there So good. Christina, the brown butter chocolate chip, the super crunchy mini cookies are so insane. They've completely messed up my I'm gonna not to do sugar, but a little bit of sugar. a little bit me wrong. But I can't eat the whole bag. That's a problem. I just I'm like I just look at it. crunch. We're texture hounds, you know? It's so they're so good. I know you stepped down as CEO of Noil Mar a couple of years ago to focus on onn the creative side of the business, which is I think probably the most interesting, the funnest part of the business. and I urge everybody to do that. Can you give us a quick update on what you've been up to these days and a little bit about your role at Milk Bar I mean, guy, when I think about the time we got to spend in person in twenty nineteen, like we had no idea that night that The way that we walk through the world would change so dramatically a year from then, let alone we're what, five, six years from the now, seven years almost a few years ago, I had two babies during I got bored and I'd like to say Will and I got bored and we started having babies. We got a giant dog named her butter. and then when it was time to kind of go back in to work in the office, we moved everyone into New York City and we thought a lot of this does not work for us anymore. And one of my big things was A because the milk bar business had been so stress tested through these last years since we spoke I really had to take a step forward and backwards into each side and sort of say, where am I best suited here. likeike I'm every bit as passionate. My tank is full with fuel, but I can't just keep driving down the same road you the same Sel with the same map, it's all changed. And my biggest thing was, I am short changing the milk bar business, holding on to the CEO seat. I would much rather focus on what I'm specifically and uniquely positioned to do, which is like The creative, the culinary, right? Like no one's taste buds are my taste buds or are your taste buds. And so now I'm sitting in Nashville, Tennessee, which is where we moved about a year ago. I'm sitting in a garage where I do all my baking, what you can't see off camera is all of the different messy baking experiments I have in my head that might make it to the mpart menu at some point I just feel more alive and firing on all cylinders than ever. so. That's so awesome. And I can't wait to see that kitchen, all your the tubs of like ingredients. I could just imagine them perfectly lining the counters and like yeah, I sometimes when I use like odd ingredients like milk powder for cooking, I think of you because it's something you don't use every day, like you toast it and then you how you use it And anyway chewy brown buttery notes. My favorite thing about you is that most people don't realize is that you are a baker and a foodie, among many other things. I wouldn't call goh baker, I wish. I wish. I love cooking I love cooking. You're talking about toasted milk powder, my friend. You are a baker in my book I'm curious, I mean, from a business perspective, right? I mean, you have there are so many different things that you do, right? You cookbooks and TV shows that you host and but from the ar side, right? There's the direct sales, the tins and the cakes and the milk bar pie, but also as I mentioned, you can go to Whole Foods or Walmart or spprouts and buy Milk mark products off the shelf. What where do you guys see like the most potential for growth? it it Having more products on the shelves in big retailers? Is it to consumer It's so interesting, you know We've intentionally built Our brand in a way that's much bigger and broader than what you know the top line revenue of our PNL is. Yes. becausecause that's the challenge. It's the challenge for our sales channels to try and catch the size and reach of the brand. So I would say that our biggest opportunity is to continue to find ways to show up in unexpected places. We just did a Krispy Kream collab that launched yesterday. and Like is that bringing money to our bottom line Pennies, right? Like it's not about that. it is getting to share like the milk bar spirit with people all across America. And for us, what's economically savvy about it is it's free earn brand and media as opposed to needing your sales channels to drive a revenue that brings enough money to like the EBITDL line that you can invest in it from a marketing standpoint. because at this point, if you're not running a profitable business in twenty twenty six I don't know, like you know was different in twenty nineteen. So yeah, I think that's such an important insight because a lot of founders, right? And people who run brands They don't always want to do the collaborations. They don't always want to focus on the brand sort of building side of it because it feels like a waste of time. And you don't necessarily see the return.ot not measurable. You can't measure it. But it opens you up. It sort of creates the foundation to find those places where you can find the products and the ideas Connect in because people already know and trust the brand. And I think that's really important because a lot of people, a lot of brands, I mean, I've been on on this side of it too with some of the things I do don't want to do the slow and sometimes hard and sometimes not so satisfying things like stand, you know, in front of a coffee shop all day or Whole Foods or whatever it might be. Yes, its that's that's it in a nutshell, I All right, Christina, we should probably bring in some callers. Are you ready? You can't wait to call? I can't All right. Let's do it. All right, Hello. Coler, welcome to the Vice Line. You are on with the founder of Nilk Bar, Christina Tosi. Please tell us your name where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business Hello guy, Hello, Christina. I'm so excited to be here. My name is Whitney and I'm calling in from Park City, Utah. My business is the Bow Collective, and we are a fitness and retail hub where locals can sweat, shop and stay connected. Wow, okay, well welcome to the show. Thanks for calling in, Whney are you? So the Bow Coective as B E A U like Bibo. Okaykay. It's a fitness studio and a retail space. So explain like you walk in and what does that look like? Y It's kind of like a mullet, really. You walk in. it's a retail party up front and then fitness classes operate in the back So when classes before they begin and as after they're finished, we have space to dwell. And we let people connect and shop and have coffee and hang at the social table before they leave. Got it. Okay. so and what do you sell on this shop? I mean, is it most like workout gear and It's full scale all the goods that we love from Lulu Lemon, Marine Layir, things like that where I've always just wanted to be able to shop before ten AM. and we're open at six AM when people are finishing their workout. It's all apparel, Whitney It's apparel and gifts and home goods and brands and things that we've loved and we've curated over the last decade. Okay, and giveimm me and the classes are like They began hit style, always forty five minutes. and then we've kind of evolved into more heavy lifting, more hybrid setups and things like that as well Everybody can C on a forty five minute spirited experience every time they're in. All right, awesome. Tell us a little bit about the revenue, like how much comes from memberships or people going to classes? How much from the retail shop Yeah, it's about at this point, it's fifty five percent from the fitness, forty five percent from the retail. And either of those growing more or less, you seeing trends in other direction? We're actually seeing the retail as an uptick erest So I think convenience and delight and fun where people can purchase things and a lot of these brands can showcase what they do to all of these people where they already are. Got it. And this is a this is one location in Park City is Just give us a quick sense of the ambition here. it a park city business? you want to just or what? Yes. So the ambition and the plan right now we're expanding and to my hometown in Phoenix And I really do believe, especially, it's fitness and retail, but it's really community and connection that we're selling And I really see that every town needs something like this. It's not a bar or restaurant, but it's hospitality in a healthy form. And it's getting people to move together, to pick up some goods that you don't have to run out in all of the traffic you can grab at sunrise. And iss really just a reimagined way for people to connect that's good for them. Got it. Okay, before we dive in further, what's your question, for us We've run this business for ten years in Park City. It's profitable, it's doing great. So my question is in the finance world of this, we're in that sweet spot just north of friends and family fundraising and just, you know, below anything institutional. So my question is about Bridge capapital. when we're really trying to secure that, how do you really align with people that understand what you're building And this is you're raising money to open the location Phoenix. Yes. Okaykay, got it. And so you've raised some and just roughly how much have you raised from friends and family friends and family we've raised about six hundred thousand. Okay, And you need closer to a million to open We need about two hundred thousand more. Okay, Got it. All right. I want to bring Christina in Just launch into it Christina. welcome. I am so excited for you, Whitney. just really quickly, will you give me like what is the like average order value or whatever acronym you use in place of AOV for customer whether they're buying from the retail or the fitness. Yes, retail average ticket is between sixty and eighty five and then two hundred dollar memberships monthly. We have about two hundred members. I got an idea there for you. Okay, I'm coming back to that. And then what about day parts, night parts? Like are people coming in and buying in retail at six AM? or does that happen during a certain consolidated time of day? Sure, a typical day is we open the doors at six AM, classes run from six to ten AM All of those people call it eighty a hundred participants and members, they're able to shop. at any point. And then when classes end, the location is in a center So we just open as a shop and behind the shiplap wall is just vacant until the classes start again. So And is your vision that you continue to build Beow Collective and own and operate it yourself as a private company I think we would establish guardians in different markets and cities that have been trained through us, there where we own it at a corporate level. But then we have great local people that care so much about the communities that we grow them that way. Got it like a franchise is model. I mean my first thought in like the fundraising, like the nness of your question, right? how do Plete this sort of like two hundred K Bridge round. One of my first thoughts. Whitney as you were talking about this new community that you're going into, the power of community, the collective two hundred K is a lot of money and not a lot of money, depending on who you're talking to on the fundraising Round. One of my thoughts is, why not presell some of your memberships, right? Like knowing what the cost of a membership is How do you pre sell the access to this really cool collective and community? What could that look like? I think that could be really interesting. I also wrote down, as you said, Park City, like let's think about what works in Park City, right? or what Park City is. It's a pretty affluent area. I immediately thought, oh my gosh, Arizona is it going be in Paradise Valley What about Aspen? What about Jackson Hole? like people that have the finances to both want to spend on the retail level, have maybe a little bit more free time, create community, and that also want to care for their own health and wellbeing. What does that look like? ' one of my questions, is how is this new market going to support you? How do you know how much you need? That's always the question when you're opening a new unit is this market the right fit? And then the other thing I'd really inspiring you to do is if you don't already have the space, like really get in there with landlords because there's a lot of vacant spaces all across America and you can get really great landlord terms. You can get them to pay for your TI, which stands for tenant improvements. A lot of them will build out a space for you, deliver the electric you need, the plumbing, et cetera, et cetera. There is a way that you might not even need two hundred K or maybe you need less than that and really bring the landlord in because it sounds like whoever the landlord is, this Bow collllective is an amenity to them, whether it's to the other tenants on the right or the left or if it's, you know mixed use and there's commercial or residential above, like there could be some wheeling and dealing there as you're modeling B collected Yeah, I think it's interesting because you have and I was thinking about you mentioned some of these other places, right? Paradise Valley. and I look at know, I'm looking at photos of the book collect. I'm thinking like Kiluea and Kauaii, you know, one of these really cool places where you've got a bunch of afflent people. And I wonder whether You might want to consider something a little radical ripped out of the playbook of there's a bagel chain here in California, a small chain called Boy Chick bagels. It got a lot of press New York Times a few years ago When they expanded outside of Berkeley in nouthern Southern California They actually offered a chance for their customers to have some equity you know, and and you know small checks. And maybe it's like a bunch of checks for a thousand bucks. I mean, I'm not saying that's easy, but could you get two hundred people or even smaller checks or some might write five thousand dollars. And maybe it's again, it's like a convertible note al loan and they get a ten percent discount card, which they can use in Phoenix or in park city and they're a member of the club. you know, it's like they're not just a they're an investor, but they're an insider I mean, if you've got passionate people are going there, it might be worth literally putting up a flyer and saying, wouldould you be interested in investing in our expansion and you know, it could be it could be an interesting way to raise money I think you're right. in the spirit of our people, we really are kind of like the tailgaters, the people that you went to college and some days miss it a little bit, right? It's a coed vibe of people that just root for each other. They're such great people that really turning it into even just on a small scale that they could have a piece of it could be really fun Yeah By the way, Whitney, like what guy is talking about? if you think about it, like how do people choose like where they're going to work out or shop? I don't know about you, but for me, it's like proximity, right? The easiest. So like how do you canvas the area closest to your new Phoenix Beu colloective with word of mouth, maybe you're part of you know other local business owners and shops where you're putting up these physical flyers or digital flyers. On top of that, you get these people to buy in. Girl, you don't even have to be stressed out about marketing when you open, right? Because you already have two hundred or four hundred newers spreading work.et excited to come in. And what I'd also say to you, Whitney is a few things one one person's opinion You want to take institutional capital as late in the game as possible, if not wait forever, right? Like Challenge yourself to never take it. There's a lot of great things that come from institutional capital, but you're on the record, right? Like they believe in you and your vision and your dream, but there is a lot of extra work in terms of reporting and strategy and board level things that also Take you away from the founder entrepreneurial visionary spirit. And there are so many clever creative ways in nowadays than ever before to not have to go to that well. I think a lot of times as early on entrepreneurs, I know I was that way thinking, that's a sign that I've made it, right? When I'm able to raise money and leverage that money, Annaand, but there's so much else that comes with it So Unlocking this yourself is going to give you the future power of choice on so many different levels while also training your entrepreneurial brain to be smart and savvy and gritty in all the ways that you are going to need for all of the years of Beu Collective to come. I totally agree. Whitney, it's congrats on building us. goodood luck in Phoenix. The company iss called the Bow Collective. If you're in Phoenix, look out for it. Whitney Kazlosski, thanks so much for calling. Thank you. Thank you so much.ing. Yeah Yeah, I mean, Im now I'm on the website. I'm like, yeah, the brands are cool, The clothes are cool. It's like a nice curated space And yeah, I mean, site is awesome. Should we quit our day jobs? I wantan to both go work for Whitney. R Do you want to work out and then have a cookie? I will be your chief of staff, babe. Let's go We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Gay Raz, and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab Work can be a little weird plenty of those moments early in my career and honestly even later I remember stretches where I wasn't totally sure what the next step was supposed to be. And that's the thing, work isn't always a straight line And that's where LinkedIn comes in LinkedIn helps you tap into ideas and insights from people who've been where you are Connect with others in your field. grow your network access tools that can actually help you find the right next step Whether you're just getting started, thinking about a change or trying to accelerate where you are LinkedIn is built to support you at every stage. Because LinkedIn is the network that works for you. Visit linkedIn dot com slash HiBt to learn more You may have heard the best voice in show businessiness, Morgan Freeman talking about a serious and underdiagnosed heart condition that's often missed ATTR cardiac amyloidsis or ATTRCM. condition that can greatly disrupt your life with symptoms like severe fatigue, shortness of breath, and carpal tunnel If left untreated, ATTRCM may become serious, leading to a shorter lifespan A Trubbie helps adults with ATTRCM live longer. and have fewer hospitalizations due to heart issues, so you can focus more on living for what you love Tell your doctor if you're pregnant, plan to become pregnant, or are breastfeeding and about the medications you take The most common side effects were mild and included diarrhea and abdominal pain If you have ATTRCM, talk to your cardiologist about a TrUuby and visit atruby d. com slash podcast that's A T T R U B Y dot com slash podcast to learn more It's time to get busy living to you by Bridge Bio You know, the challenge I always had with Bitcoin was, well, how do you spend it, right? Thiscoin is often talked about as an investment But it was built to be used cash app you can actually do that. seend Bitcoin instantly, pay at local square businesses that accept it, or move it to your own wallet whenever you want. It works like real money and less like something locked in an account. For a limited time, new customers can get ten dollars ten added to their balance. code Cash app ten when you sign up and don't forget this part, send at least five dollars to a friend in the first two weeks. Terms apply. CashApp is a financial services platform, not a bank, banking services provided by Cash A's bank partners, Bitcoin services provided by Block Inc Brand For additional information, see the Bitcoin disclosures at cash. app slash legal slash podcast Welcome back to the Viceeline on How I Built this Lab. I'm Guy Ross. and my guest today is Christina Tosi, the founder of Milk Bar, and we're taking your calls and let's bring in our next caller. Ooh I't wait Hi Gy and Christina. I'm Chloe and I'm calling from Leicestershire in the UK. and I'm the founder of Cotton Clara. We make beginner friendly craft kits that are designed to help people discover crafting and making and hopefully find a hobby that they love Welcome to the show. Thank you for calling in, Chloe. Leicestershire is Midlands, right? Yeah right in the middle. Yeah Leicester, Nottingam, kind of Birmingham. Birmingham. Okay, cool. we Awesome. Thank you for calling in. Thanks for listening to the show. So tell us a little bit about cotton Clara. You sell like craft kits and like describe them So they're designed to be beginner friendly. I kind of I saw this market ten years ago and it felt so old fashioned. and I I felt like there was a gap for design led, modern kits that appeal to people that have a kind of are design conscious and want something beautiful in their hom And what can you get like you make I mean, is it like embroidery or sewing? L what are the things that you make? So depending on the kit, so you either create a kind of a little work of art that is framed in the hoop that you stitch it in and then you put it on your wall or one of our really popular kits is a friendship bracelet making kit. We have paper craft kits, all different types of things. We have a flower press kit, so it depends which craft you choose. Awesome. And you said you started this ten years ago, about ten years ago? Yeah, I mean the seed of an idea was ten years ago, but really the business got serious in twenty twenty, kind of end of twenty nineteen, twenty twenty. And you sell everything direct to consumer or do you also sell into stores It's about sixty percent direct consumer and about forty percent wholesale, but wholesale is really growing at the moment, especially wholesale to the US Okay, and are most of your customers in the UK in Europe or also you mentioned wholesales in the US? Where are they coming from? your customers? Most of our wholesale customers are in the US, but most of our D toC customers at the moment are in the UK. And where do you sell in the US, by the way? We sell to Barn and Noble, anthropology, and then loads of kind of shops Independent small, or maybe small in America, but in the UK. they're huge. And give us a sense of of your annual sales. Like what would do you expect to hit this year or? Yeah, this year, we've just had our best year. Yeah. we turned over one point two million dollars this year our last year. So that was our greatreat. Aazing answ huge milestone. And before we dive in further, what's your question So our question is are Business serves three different markets, so gifting, craft enthusiasts, like your classic craffter and then the kind of wellness movement and we're not sure which positioning will best drive the scale we need to build a truly profitable business. So we'd love advice on how to identify the audience most likely to buy repeatedly and how that should shape our product development and our route to market. All right, so so gifters, crafters, wellnessers. Yeah. Okay, who do you Where do you go to? Okay, Christino, Christina Tosi, I want to bring you in. Crafting, cool business, over a million dollars in sales now, awesome Doing great There's some choices and decisions to make. It is so true. I mean, Chloe, first off, congratulations. one point two million. That's huge. Second of all, I want everything on your. I'm a crafter. I was raised by women. the granny spirit is alive and well in me It's definitely how I was raised in all of the free time we crafted. craft kits did not exist. so you had to like raid grandma's basement you know for thread and for old pieces of fabric, the fabric store, the yard sales, that sort of stuff. I also think it's a really interesting moment where you're at where to your point, that the business really started taking off in twenty twenty, right? Like that shows like a macro trend, but an interesting one because I see your businesses crafting, acknowledging that gifting and wellness are ways that crafting finds its way into people's lives that aren't just th about crafting first and foremost Well also at least in the US, what we're seeing, we're seeing a lot of like there's a reason Etsy took off, but there's also a reason why craft stores like the Big Box Michaels, Joanne, a lot of those crafting first stores have suffered. O J just like a brick and mortar real estate basis, but also when you look at our other big boxes like a Target or a Walmart, they're doubling and tripling down into this crafty spirit You're onto something. You're onto an activity that we picked up in the pandemic that we haven't lost, right? That we're continuing to find really, really dynamic stickiness with, joyful stickiness with As a baker, I am a believer that The activities where we get to create and bring things to life, whether we're being serious about it or not being serious about it are activities that are going to continue to be really powerful for us in an age that continues to be increasingly digital. right? We feel like that. like the potential is massive and huge. Yeah for kind of this industry. What do you like where what do you want to do with with cotton Clara Is it is it international expansion? Is it How are you thinking about that? I appreciate the like, what are we But I am curious to sort of like, what do you wantna be Yeah, we want to be a big global brand. We want to get people making all over the world. but I want to be a brand that does that in a sustainable way. So yeah, we're dreaming really big. Got it. Yeah. Okay, here are some thoughts that I have for you, Chloe. I wonder if, and this is something my husband and I, my husband's also an entrepreneur This is a game we play at home all the time. When we're faced with a challenge of like, is it this? is it? this is it this? We force ourselves to create one additional option. So when I hear you say, are we gifting? A we crafting? Are we wellness? I go, what if you're none of those things, what would you be And if I had to force myself to come up with another word, it's makers, right? Like youre what is the what's the why? What is the stickiness? I think it's because people are making something like when we are crossroads at Milk Bar and we're trying to figure out Is this the right product or is that the right product? Is this the right language? What's gonna be sticky? We go to our community first and knowing that you have a sixty percent DTC customer base Pull them Yeah They may have some of the answers, they may give you some texture that helps give you direction. And then the other thing that I could just be cool I have a friend named Elisa. She's actually a neighbor of guys in San Francisco on the West cooast. She fell in love with baking and for her, baking is about like community. She started doing this thing a few years ago called Cake Picnic She has gotten sponsors and now she throws these things and people come together in a park one day and they eat cake together. It's literally a party as an excuse to eat cake. Yes. And people make these beautiful elaborate cakes. They do do it at Goldenbe Park. It's incredible So part of me is like what is the what is the maker picnic where people come and cross stitch together or friendship bracet? I mean, girl, I'm a friendship bracelet wear themed over here. L you need the idea of making, crafting, whatever it is to get out much further beyond growing your business. I believe that's gonna be a secret to your global domination and success and getting us excited about being knookers All right, Chloe, takeake it for word's worse, but I I have a slightly different perspective, which is I actually think that your customer is the repeat customer. Like it doesn't matter if they're a gifter and they're buying or if it's I think craft enthusiasts probably is the most challenging because they are probably often looking for the best value or lowest price,'s not even the best value But it's like So and I think the wellness thing is really interesting, right? I don't think it's a trend. People aren't, you know, they're looking for ways to find fulfillment, spiritual meaning. and for better or worse, it's a massive exploding industry when you consider everything that's inside of it. So I mean, I think that You know, you want to start looking to see who's buying your stuff more than once. Who's buying it four or five times a year. What is it about them Maybe contact them or see if they will talk to you in exchange for a free product and just download who they are, why they're buying it, what they like about it. becausecause I think every decision you make whether it's a marketing campaign or social media or whatever you can put into that It should all answer that question. How do we people to come back. How do we deepen the relationship with them?, canan I say one thing about the wellness thing? Be I like where you're going in it. My caveat or my sort of like asterisk that I'd say to it is It is wellness, but it's inherently a joyful wellness pursuit, right? And so how do you think about what the right word choice is? Because if you use wellness too closely, it's gonna to feel like you're saying eat your vegetables and wes are going run in the other direction.. So what is the like wordsmith of this look like as youre So you have a few different options when you go to talk to your repeat customers and in An. is it about unlocking creativity? Yes. Are they creativity kits and not crafting kits, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Cay. I really love that clay. I think it's a great to unlock. You don't want to say wellness exactly. It's like you're hitting people over the head of that you want to talk about unlocking creativity or and you can also start to explore potential partnerships with really big candle brands or you know, products that are sort of wellness ish or adjacent that where you might have people interested in doing some kind of cross promotion or collaboration. This leads into this other idea, which could be I mean, takes some energy, but could be worth it. likeike a vertical, just a business vertical, a completely separate part of your business. where you start to work with brands. you know, brands that we've had on the show like Airbnb or Canva milk bar. I was Can I get a milk bar crust? Yeah. I mean I mean I'm looking at some of your designs here and they're cool like little bento boxes and ramen and you could potentially, you know, Canva has a giant staff like convention every year. Thousands and thousands of people from around the world like Could there be some kind of collaboration where you can stitch a canva logo or you know, something like that, which could be an interesting totally separate business. Yeah. No, that's great. All amazing ideas and yeah, lots to think about Chloe, cononggrats on the business, Cotton and Clara. Thank Good luck Thank you. Thanks so much G Thank you, bye. Bye I the thing I love about this, these kits is that u you can be complete completely useless. Like I am really You know, I have a lot of patience for cooking, but for some reason like I just can't get my head around this, but I think because this is easier. This is like yes she's got things where it's like paint by numbers, I could get into that also a friendship bracelet. I mean, I know your kids are like cusp too old, but like I make friendship bracelets all the time. likeike I bring embroidery thread in a little sewing kit on the plane with me because it is just It's something that I can make for someone else. It makes me feel good. It makes them feel good. BeCause once you do it, guy, you'll be hooked. You'll be like, I can't believe I made that. I'm sure. Your friendship bracelet era is about to begin. Yeah. Something tells me. I's about to begin All right, we're gonna take another quick break, but we'll be right back with one more callar Stay with us, I'm Guy Ros, and you're listening to the device line right here on how I built this lab Every business is now asking the same question How do we make AI work for us The possibilities are endless and guessing is too risky but sitting on the sidelines is not an option because one thing is almost certain your competitors are already making their move No more waiting. With NetsSuite by Oracle, you can put AI to work today Next suite is the number one AI clloud ERP trrusted by over forty three thousand businesses. It's a unified suite that brings your financials, inventory, commerce, HR, and CRM into a single source of truth Connected data is what makes your AI smarter doesn't just guess, it knows how to automate routine tasks, deliver actionable insights, and help you cut costs From software and IT services, to healthcare, equipment manufacturing, financial services, and many other great American industries, NetSuite delivers a customized solution for your business If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get their free business guide demystifying AI at netsuite d. com slash built The guide is free to you at netssuite dot com slash built. netswuite dot com slash built When I meet a founder or someone pitches me an idea, one of the very first things I do is pull up their website A great website is essential for any modern business. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know because it builds trust, it builds credibility, and it generates leads And unlike social media, a website provides complete ownership pdates to your. com take too long or feel harder than they should be, Framer is the shortcut you've been looking for Framer is a website builder that turns dot coms from a formality into a tool for growth, helping thousands of businesses from early stage startups to Fortune five hundreds build better websites faster Whether you want to launch a new site, test a few landing pages or migrate your full. com Framer has programs for every size of business to make going from idea to live site as easy as possible Learn how you can get more out of your d. com from a framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer. com slash built. thirty percent off, a Framer pro annual plan frramer d. com slash built for thirty percent off Framer d. com slash built. Rules and restrictions may apply Welcome back to the device line on How I But this Lab. I'm Guy Rz, and today I'm taking calls with Milk Bar founder Christina Tosi. So Christina, ready, ready for our next call Let's go All right, let's bring in our final call. welcome to the Vvice Line. Tell us your name where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business My name is Christy Clement. I'm calling in from Washington State, and I'm the founder of Vashon Island Coffee Dust. So we make spice blends to flavor your coffee without sweeteners. So there's no coffee in coffee dust, just real spices, cinnamon, cardamom, cayenne, things like that to add to your coffee. and it's a clean alternative to creamers and syrups If you're a black coffee drinker, it's just a fun way to change it up in the morning. Oh, awesome. welcome to the S Chry. So these are powders, but it's they're not sweeted and it's not like a you know, powderized milk. It's just spices that you add to the coffee Yeah, so the whole idea is their blends. Some people already add some cinnamon or nutmeg to your coffee, right? And these are super fun blends. So we have a gingerbread blend. We have a couple of spicy ones, a hot mama and a spicy papa that have cayenne in them. And the hot mama, for example, is cocoa and a little bit of cinnamon, some cayenne and some sea salt. That's it Interesting. And does it I mean, I'm curious because if you add that to coffee doesnn't necessarily dissolve, right? I mean, does it how does it like integrate with the coffee? Do you really get those flavors? You really do. Yeahah. So we get our spices ground extremely, extremely finely and that helps to dissolve in. I'll also hit it with a frother. So you can add it to your coffee after you've made it, just dust it on top. That's what most people do Foth it with your milk. or that. You can add it to your grounds, use a little bit more, but you can brew it with your whole pot How how long when did you start this business aboutbout five years ago. This is a COVID baby. I used to be an IT consultant teaching software teams to act like startups, but I've never been in the food business. And I was a new coffee drinker during COVID, filling as most new coffee drinkers do, their coffee full of junk, right cream and sugar and things like that. But a friend introduced me to Spice bleuns adding to coffee and I was able to get off the cream and the sugar using that method. And I just fell in love with it. I started playing around with other flavors and as work started picking back up at the end of the pandemic, I thought, all right, well, I don't have time for this. I'll just buy it from somebody because I was completely addicted at that point. Nobody made it, and so I knew I had to start a business. All right, Vashian Island, That's the island in the Pujget sound, right? It's in Puj Pujget sound for you. Y in near Seattle. Okay. so you are selling these how, where? mostostly through your website? We have five different channels. We're on our website. we do a lot of in person markets. We do Etsy We have a wholesale channel. We're in about fifty independent gift stores and coffee shops across the country, and we sell on Amazon Awesome and how'd you guys do last year? We did two hundred seventy seven thousand in revenue. and we've been profitable from day one. and we've been doubling our revenue Amazing. Okay. so before we dive in, what is your question So I know many coffee dust customers discover us through gifting and then become loyal buyers for themselves. And that flywheel feels really powerful, but I'm not sure how to deliberately design for it Christina, I suspect you had a similar challenge with Milk Bar, and I'd love both of your thoughts on how I can intentionally create that gifting loyal buyer loo All right, Christina, fashion Island coffee dust. Christie is looking for some, you know, ideas on how to get those people coming back again again. Bs, ideas questions. You know, it's so first of all, Christy, congratulations. J, I think it's a great concept, like people's drink ritual is truly that. It's sacred, It's a ritual and because we all love food and flavor, like the sweet spot of what you're doing makes a lot of sense. You know, when we started Milk bar, first of all, my goal was to like have a bakery and stay alive I did not anticipate being a gifting experience. I thought I was just selling a warm cornflake chate marshmallow cookie out of the oven or a slice of, you know cake unfrosted on the sides or a little ding of soft serve. And the DTC part of our business, we launched our care package business just so we could reach someone that was never going to make it to our New York City bakery, but what we realized really quickly was that it became a thing If it is gifting, you have to think first and foremost about O course the take rate, right? who is gifting it? And then how do they want it to appear as a gift? How do you make their job as the gift giver as big and brilliant and easy as possible? So thinking about You know, we chose a literally it shipping in the mail, it's insane to use a white box, right? It doesn't doesn't arrive in pristine white box order. But Babe in a sea of cardboard Amazon boxes, when that box arrives