Branding and International Growth Strategy

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It helps me work through the material, organize what I already know, and find the thread the thing that turns research into better questions Claud is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move Plaud extends your thinking to tackle the problems of matter. from research to strategy to the tasks that slow everything down Claod helps you stay with the work and keep moving For problems worth solving, get started with Caud at claud.ai slash hibBT Hello and welcome to the Advice Line on How I Build this Lab. I'm Guy Ros. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is one eight hundred four three three one two nine eight. Leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with Let's get to it Joining me this week is Susan Griffin Black, founder of the personersal care brand EO product Susan. Welcome back to the show Thank you so much for having me. so good to see you, guysy. It is great to see you were first on the show back in twenty nineteen. You came on to Telse the Origin story of EO productucts and how you grew it from a ten gallon pot in a garage into a major natural personal care brand. And we will put a link to that episode, of course, as we always do in the show notes. You should go check it out. It's really, especially if you're interested not just in skincare products, but learning how to take a brand from basically a farmer's market to a massive national brand This is the story that you got to listen to Susan, I know that you know today you are you're focused on leading EO products and continuing to grow the brand. Can you kind of Tell us a little bit about what, you know off in twenty nineteen. We've of course kept in touch, you kept in touch with our team, but who don't really know what's going on with Yo, tell us a little bit about where you guys are today Well, when we spoke in twenty nineteen You know, we had a clelear growth plan and strategy. and then Surprise. COVID I was on my way to our annual Natural Products exppo trade show in Anaheim And As I was driving there, the trade show was canceled and my sister called me whose partner is an ER doc and said body's got to come home now. And I remember it was like a Friday night. I woke up Saturday morning. We had a little retail store in downtown Mill Valley peopleeople were lined up around the block because They wanted hand sanitizer. I mean, from what I understand, I mean, you saw like a ten X surge, right in hand sanitizer demand. Yes during COVID. and thank you for sending some to. You did. That was so nice But of course, as the demand fell, you know, you saw like a fifty percent drop in sales. and this was, of course, a challenge u probably one of the most challenging things you had to deal with. It really was, you know, we u becausecause we'd been around for twenty five years I think people cut us as much slack as they could, and we work together It was very relationship based. a packaging company that we did maybe thirty thousand dollars worth of business prior to COVID We are on the hook for two million dollars. Wow and I had to Lincoln The CEO and explain our story and see if he would give us a promissory note for the next two years to and work our way out of that, which they did. But it was It was that and dealing with the problem of, you know, just Three times as much, five times as much inventory as we should have And then also layoffs for the first time, you know, that was in your entire history? Major. Yeah Yeah I often come back to your episode because it really and we've had versions of this in the show now so remarkable and for people haven't heard it is that you started this company with your then husband, Brad You divorced in the middle of building this company and the two of you decided Stay running the business despite being divorced and despite going on and having new relationships. And it's a remarkable story because you together said this is the best thing for the company. We're going to scale it together. I remember when we when I interviewed you just thinking, what an adult decision, like what a smart hard but smart decision that you and Brad made you know, because often you've got partner Founder partners breakups that they're notarried They're just they just are falling out And what you guys managed to do was just incredibly H, but smart I think it was smart, but and it was good for the business and good for our family and good for our children And you know, When you're a founder, entrepreneur, your business is kind of like another kid in some ways, right So It was really the highest good in this situation And I also want to say for the record, you know, there were no other people involved and there was not like a betrayal So So I have to say that out loud because I've had this conversation over the years so many times. and you know people ask us all the time. We've been divorced for longer than we were married, you know And we're we're family, you know That's just how we are. Well again, we will put a link to it in the show notes. It's a great episode Especially to understand foundounder dynamics, so I strongly recommend people check it out. Susan, are you ready to take our first callar? I am All right, let's bring our collar on. Hello, welcome to the advice line. You're on with Susanriffin Black. Co founder of EOroducts, please tell us your name, where you're calling from and a little bit about your business Thank you. Hi Gy. Hi Susan. So honored to be here with you. Really love you both so much. So I'm doror Rucci Gupta. I live in Chicago and my company is Yobi And Yobi is a unique skin scalp and hair care line using our probiotic based natural ingredients to protect that skin barrier. Wow, thanks for calling us.hould I call you doctor Gupto or No call me Rutiase. All right. Thank you for calling in. So you are a doctor and I'm assuming you're dermat ologist or skin ry. So I'm actually a pediatrician. I'm a professor at Northwestern and Lurie Children's, and I lead a research lab that studies eczema and food allergies So I'm just assuming that's how yeah, tell me how this idea came about Well, it's very personal. And as fate would have it, our daughter was born with severe eczema and cradle cap, and I found myself using steroids and all these chemical filled products on her So she became the inspiration for our research. We got a team of dermatologists, microbiologists together. And we finally developed this formula that cleared her skin, and it worked for so many of our patients. And then we thought we really need to share this with the world Yeah, because I mean, I think a lot of people listening have, you know a little eczema, a bit of skin and my way of dealing with it, if I can avoid scratching it is to just not touch it and then again goes away You know, sometimes it could take a week or two or more, But that's not ideal. Yeah. So people talk about the microbiome and we think about it in the gut, right? A lot of people are taking probiotics, but we don't think about it on the skin and our skin contains you know billions of bacteria, fungi, viruses, and they all live in this Well, when this harmony gets disrupted, that's when your skin breaks down and you get that irritation, itching and breakdown of the skin barrier. And so instead of you like having this urge to itch and just avoiding it, you know, being able to put something on that skin that helps rebalance it and barrier. hopefully your itch will go away way faster And so you decide to start a skincare line. Tell me how whereere you sell it and yeah a little bit about how you can get it and how you're doing, how the business is doing Sure. So we have We have a scalout mask, a shampoo, conditioner, skin cream and body oil And we're currently selling on our website Yobbecaare. com and then we also sell on Amazon. And we are starting to sell in more like businesses like spas, salons, physicians offices, Meti spas. And tell me a little bit about how the business is doing like how did you do in sales last year, for example? Yes last year we ended with about three hundred thirty thousand and we are growing and we're hoping this year to double or a little more than double that. Okay, before we dive in further, what is your question for us? So my question started talking about it is, where do we sell Do we focus and double down on D toC or spread our focus and really get into these professional channels, spa doctors' offices All right, lets let's dive in. Susan, please Please join the call here sailor up. I'm like, you know, holding back and jumping in. So excited to meet you and did a little research on your website and I wish you were around when My kids were little, you know, there Because there's a real need for products that work that are not steroids and so You know, I'm not an expert really at DitaC because we've sort of chosen a different path to be in natural food stores. And that can get quite pricey in its own right But I like spreading out distribution because it all feeds back into D toC anyway, if you know, And It just gives you more exposure and more advocacy and more accessibility And our products are for adults too. so Susan,. I that.. And we thought about Whole Foods because I know your story very well. And we did talk to our local Whole Foods. And to your point, know it's just the shelf space and the cost for being on shelves versus you know in offices where they're recommending you. So I'd love your thoughts. Well, I love offices that are recommending you. I think that's Terrific. I guess it's how do you scale that? And how much effort it takes to scale that, right with what sales force and You know? Yeah, ye. I mean, the challenge, I mean, as you know, is the customer acquisition costs D to C are just increasingly getting, they're just getting higher and higher, right But it sounds like, I mean, by the way, what's the repeat purchases through the website Yeah, about forty percent, right? Amazing. I mean, that's really great. right? So you you already, you really want to double down on your existing customer base because that's really where you've got that long term value I think that you want to continue the D toC for sure but you also want to focus on the other side, which is your story and the trust that is embedded in product. I mean, I think about Ogganain. We had an episode on Organaine cou of years ago. And Andrew Abraham is a doctor, right? And he He is a young man. he had cancer And he was fed, you know, those like shakes to gain weight and they were horrible. And so he wanted to make a natural better version of that and that's how he created Or gain. And that's the story he tells on that packaging. I think that you could literally put your picture on there and say, I created this for my daughter, you know, in a research lab because your story is so compelling and that's what you're selling. That's your asset. It's trust. It's not just product. And so I think that you really You know, while you continue D to C, you really want to see if you can get this into the hands of dermatologists and pediatricians and Mi spas and you know salons because That's it's about discoverability. And I would start in your area, like you're in Chicago The Chicago area, I would really focus builduilding it out there first because to build it out city by city is s going to be more expens. You you got to get a team to do that Yeahes, But I think that's really where the right now where you should put Your energy Okay, now this is really helpful. and that's we were thinking about that. Let's start Chicago. Let's call every salon, every spa, every muddy spa, every head spa, all these cool things that are are starting to become popular. And then I'm trying to do,, I've heard all your not all probably but most of your episodes and you know your advice on you know, getting yourself out there. So I'm trying to educate on social media and I want to give sound information on eczema on skin, but on any health topics, you know, to really I think that's my space, like you said. Sociate Yeah Yeah. I mean, it's so authentic You know, And I also really like what you said, Guy about You know, we got all crazy in the beginning and we'd be running, you know, you know, if you just get grounded kind of where you are, who you know in the community and take like, you know A hundred and fifty mile radius to start And then it sort of ripples from there maybe, you know H Murr's apothecary, youar you You know, Zitomers in New York Air onean You know, very high end personal been around a long time still really care about serving their customers in that particular way. And a lot of testimony and a lot of really good people will show up on that path I totally agree. I mean, this is a huge market. All right. I mean eczema any kind of skin issues, like probably's huge number of people talking about. And I think once people Discover it, you also want to make it really easy for them to reorder. Are you using QR codes yet at all? Yes. G've you've got an email list. Are you sending reminders to people every couple of weeks or you know, hey, time to reorder or anything like that And subscriptions also, you know, possible, right? Yes. We started subscriptions on our website in Amazon and we do remind them if we don't see they've ordered in three months, we'll send them a hey. And I noticice you have a blog on your site. Do you send that out to your mailing list? the articles? Oh, I don't know if we Well you should do that. I mean, it's this free advice from a medical profive This is really valuable information. I would take the blog entries and turn them into a a monthly newsletter and just to have just send it out to your customers and you're saying, hey, tell a friend and we'll give you twenty five percent off your next order. It's a great idea. No, I really appreciate it. I mean we're sending newsletters, but I'm trying to get more education out into the world. That's it. It's all about that. And don't and just give people free information that's useful. Don't ask for anything in return. Just give it to them. They will really This is what we do and this this is the The secret of this show, we just give out information that we know is going to be helpful for listeners. We don't ask for anything in return except for your attention, which is actually asking a lot. but we don't ask you to give us money or anything. Just listen to the show. So I would definitely think about that. Yes. and guy, all as doctors, we like giving out free advice because we trust our doctors. That's our goal is to help and support. Yeah. So giving away free education Any of these topics, eczema, allergies, et cetera is my end goal. Awesome. Aesome. Thank you. Thank you. The brand is called Yobi, Dror Gupta Thank you so much for calling in and good luck. Thank you so much. so grateful All right, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back with another callar and another round of advice. 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That's frramer dot com slash built for thirty percent off Framer. com slash built. Rules and restrictions may apply Welcome back to the Avice line on How I But this Lab. I'm Guy Ros, and my guest today is Susan Griffin Black. She's the founder of the personal care brand EO productroducts, and we are taking your calls. and let's bring in our next call. A you ready? Absolutely. Welcome to the addvice line you're on with Susan Griffin Black of EO Products. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from and a little bit about your business Hi guysy and Susan. My name is Peter Andrews. I am based in San Francisco. And I'm the founder of Culture Wine Company. which is an importer, distributor and e commerce retailer, focused exclusively on New Wave South African wines So the wineries that I work with are all practicing organic farming and minimal intervention win making They're all small family owned Aesome, welcome to the show Peter. So you br in South African wines from these newew Wave Winemakers, tell me and where do you distribute them? How do you where do you sell them? Yeah, so I have three channels that my business is licensed in So I have a DTC website, culturewineco dot com where I ship to forty four states around the US. There's also a wine Club like monthly subscription service in there I direct distribute in California. and then I also just started midway through last year, branching into other states with distribution partners So I'm now in Tennessee. Georgia and Whington State. I've been working on a few more now through hopefully before end of year. Awesome And have you been in wine for a long time? Yeah. so I've been in the food and beverage industry for my entire career Um startarted as a chef. madeade wine in Italy. I've worked and opened and operated small bottle shops and also worked in executive leadership for a a local very kind of luxury focused wine retailer, but we were grossing fifty million a year by the time I left So how and you started this how long ago, this Culture wine company? Yeah, I only started it in twenty twenty three and it really was spurred from a trip to South Africa, where, you know, being in the industry, I can count on one hand how many times a distributor has come to show me South African wine. So I kind of took that as the quality Wasn't that high And it took a visit on a holiday where my inspiration was absolutely piqued. And because of that, I started the company How is the business doing? I mean, we're hearing a lot of, we've had wine small wine businesses call you, call into the show. and We hearing mix things, right? I mean, I live in California too, and it's been challenging, to say the least for many wineemakers. How did you guys do last year Yeah. so It's been growing steadily since I've got my first container to California which was only in November of twenty three We were up last year, sixty percent Wow. And year to date, we're up over one hundred and fifty percent. amazing. Gen Z and Millennials are definitely partaking But they want experiences. They want to feel like they are seen in the product And so I put on a wine festival here called Hellahennon that's bringing together winemakers from not just South Africa, but California and France and even Australia this year And I think This kind of grassroots element of it and creating community within it is really working And so I just kind of keep staying true north with that kind of marketing strategy All right, before we bring in Susan, tell us your question Yeah, so I'm not just trying to grow a business, but an entire category in South African wine So how would you suggest to allocate my time and resources between growing cultures, wholesale and DTC businesses while also increasing demand for South African wine more broadly Susan, I want to bring you in. Any thoughts or questions that you might have for Peter Yes Can you just tell us a little bit about South African wines, like what was your sort of aha moment when you were visiting ed this track Yeah, you know, Totally. I feel like we need a whole bottle of Sen and Blanc to go into this. but I think with South African wine, it's the oldest of the New World wine producing region. So they've been making wine for almost four hundred years I think the best quality has been made and only in the last thirty since apartheid has ended. And I think historically what we've seen come into the US has been kind of focused on the value category. And I think Eespecially in the last thirty years, you've seen the quality increase so dramatically that now the marketing needs to change, the messaging needs to change, and we need to have better storytelling about the incredible dynamic young linemakers that are taking hold of the industry So that's where my focus is. I'm really trying to premiumize change the narrative and make people realize whether that's trade or consumers that South African wine is world class and worthy of being in Michelin restaurants, great bottle lists and just generally something you can drink. Yeah. and do the high end smilers and restaurants and understand anything about South African wine because it's been at the lower end? Is it like sort of a Bevmo product or a You know, where has it been traditionally at retail Yeah, so I think traditionally the tryrying to sell wine nationally is very challenging and usually that means the big guys get the most amount of representation But I think the big guys have looked at South Africa as a way to create like an inexpensive category So now that I'm coming in and bringing these small artisan organic farms making like seriously good wine I'm trying to get the best somalers and wine buyers to say like, just give me twenty minutes of your time Let me show you these wines and I promise once it's in the glass it'll deliver. And it's been working. I've worked with several Michelin restaurants, Michelin star restaurants here in the Bay Area and around California. And they're selling the wine. My California distribution channel has an eighty percent reorder rate eighty percent. Yeah. And that's and that's wholesale. Is that Okay. So eight is that is that eighty percent of your entire business is wholesale seventy percent of my business is coming from the California direct. Okay Channel. and eighty percent of that reorders. Okay. And what percentage of your business is direct to your website So only fifteen percent, Okay Basically the way that I've used that channel to date is all the wholesale work that I'm doing Kind of funnels people into realizing I even exist. I haven't spent any money on digital advertising. I do have a pretty robust social media presence, like through Instagram. and I keep wanting to try to build that It's been entirely organic So there's a lot of opportunity there, but I've really just let All the work I'm doing wholesale kind of feed into the DTC side. And what's the tariff situation for you right now So definitely a huge headwind. twenty twenty five, it was thirty percent it was the highest of all major wine producing nations. It's now reduced to ten percent Now we have the fun of a weakening dollar and rising fuel cost. So that's basically brought us back to square one And I think that the real challenge with South African wine within that is there's not as much price elasticity In regions like Burgundy or Champagne, there's kind of clout to it where you can say, hey, I have to go up and price ten, fifteen per, twenty percent. You just don't have that type of ability yet with South Africa So margin pressure is definitely real a real concern You know, you're so well situated with your relationships from, you know, your your whole life of work. Yeah. My um My family was early in in the wine business in Paso Roblus. They made Small vineyard, wward vineyard, Burgundi and Pinot noir, that's all they made. So I've heard about all of the ins and outs of this for a lot of my life. really understand The relationship piece of it that you know, the people you know and that trust you will work with you and grow with you and you're bringing something of quality, it seems very organic and natural that It'll work. I agree. You've been in this business a long time. You've got so many relationships and so many advantages. And I mean, I'm assuming most of your sales are still in California, right? Yes To me, it's and you know this having been in the business so long, like There are strategic places where you really want to double down. I'm thinking Nashville I'm thinking Austin, you know, I'm thinking Chicago, not just New York and San Francisco but Charleston, like places where There really is more of a intentional that word is overused, but intentional conversations around food and wine. No,re it's like you're speaking my language. My goal, I think one of the biggest shortcomings with evenven the premium South African wines that have been here Th are very small producers. and they're put into far too many states There's not enough wine to satisfy those states, and then consumers don't know who they are And so my goal is to be in a small set of states with distribution partners that are cities like Charleston Nashville, Chicago. I want to be able to go to those markets and train the distributors, train the sales teams and the Somaliers and line buyers point, I just kicked off with my distributor in Tennessee Two weeks ago And we sold a hundred cases of wine in three days. Amazing. You know, so it's there's so much potential in markets like that where it's just it's peopleople don't think of it first like they would say New York, but you go there and there's incredible food scenes. I think what you're really after is how do you how do you create more demand for South African wine, right? And Susan may have a different view Uh And again, it's may just be because my age I really tend to only drink whites now because Reds are harder for me to drink, right? I love them But and maybe your younger customers, it doesn't matter But if there was a way where you could really focus like seventy percent of your inventory is whites, I just I feel like that's been happening for a while. I might be wrong. Yeah. sore I mean, you're speaking to a broader industry trend. White wine is definitely outselling red wine these days And it's partly why I started the wine festival. It only focuses on Chenen Blanc. Chen Blanc, which is amazing. I mean, right? They can't get better in Shin and bllock And South Africa grows sixty percent of the world's Chenin now. So it's really become the homeland of it. So you're definitely very consistent with the industry trends there. Awesome. Susan, any last thoughts I love the idea of the white wine focus also because it really seems to be happening and then anything that's you know, more natural And if they're growing regeneratively then I would say make that You know, just that word on labels and talking about it with customers because it really sort of exceeds the expectations of organic that that would be a really good thing to focus on as well. because that's a real differentiator Definitely. A actuallyually a couple of my estates are regenerative growers. so your're yeah, definitely will highlight that more going I hope we we've been a little bit helpful, Peter. But it sounds like you're onto something. I mean, especially as the broader industriry has some headwinds. So Congrats, good luck, and you know, keep us posted. All best, Peter. Thank you Culture wine Company, check it out. We're gonna take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Ross, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab They say that every day your business is late to AI, you fall two days behind But how do you keep up when the competition is only moving faster Nets sweet next. Netueite Next is the next huge leap in how business gets done AI is built into everything you do automatically provides custom insights throughout your day, while AI agents work alongside you to solve problems and handle routine work. And anytime you have a question about anything, Ask Just like you're having a conversation with a colleague If I needed to manage HR, commerce, inventory, CRM, financials I would use NetSuite nextxt Whether your company earns millions or even hundreds of millions, it's time for Net Sueite next where your business meets AI. first time ever, you can try Netuite next for free. 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They vet their providers and monitor outcomes, and ninety three percent of patients report feeling better and making real progress With Rula, you can find a therapist for your specific needs in as little as five minutes and even book an appointment as soon as the next day So instead of overthinking it, you can actually take the first step If you're ready to stop talking yourself out of finding care and making progress, then head to rula. com. R youLA. com the first step Welcome back to the advice Line on How I But this lab. I'm Guy Roos, and today I'm taking your calls with EO productroducts founder, Susan Griffin Black So Susan, let's go to our final Coler, welcome to the advice line. You are on with Susan Griffin Black. Please tell us your name where you're calling from and a little bit about your business. Hi guysy, hi, Susan. My name is Dominiic Gyndam Giddens, and I amm calling you from the beautiful Caribbean island of Barbadas I'm the co founder of Wyndham's Bejing Coffee Roasters and Cane Dog Coffee. We're a specialty coffee roaster where we're focusing on crafting coffees With vibrancy, flavor from our island experience and we want to become an international Beijing coffee brand. Wow. Okaykay, welcome to the show, Adomamic. Andane dog cooffee is that your dog Dog coffee is my dog, yes, my dog The mascot is my dog Maciato, Mac for short And And I'm assuming canane is the sugarcane, right? Sugar canane. Yeahes. So cane doog is technically the term for a straay And know that's born in the Cane fields They're friendly, they're scrappy Regretfully,s it's a negative I found Maciato on the side of a cartroad or a or track road you would call it He came up to us, I saw him, I saw his beautiful eyes. He took him home And now he lives a pretty good life. I bet. And he's given us, He's our spirit guide and helping us Pushing I love it. Our coffee around the world. I love o. so when did you start this business, Dominic We've been in this business for twenty five years... is all I've ever done isararb in Barbadas completely. I started when I was twenty two with my wife. My wife is actually our CEO And so we've been married and in business together for twenty five years. Are you a lifelong Barbadian?? I'm in Baiian. I was born, raised and educated in Barbadas. Wow. amazing. Okay, so you've got this coffee brand. Tell me a little bit about where you're selling it So We sell it everywhere that That's just the truth. We're all everywhere in Barbados. Everywhere in Barbados. We're a small tiny island. So that's we've primarily focused on Ho Rea hotels, restaurants and cafes. We have a lot of high end tourism. You then go to offices, then you go to supermarkets, you go to gift shops, you go to the little what what you would call a bodega A little rum shop, wherever you can find someone who's going to buy your product, we sell it too. So you're everywhere in Barbados and how are you what are you generating a year in sales We just this year Hit about two million US dollars. Got it. Okay. And are your margins pretty good The margins are good, Barbarbarios is an expensive country to live in and work in Yeah, but but and we've grown On average, organically ten percent every year and we have We're breaking out. We do actually sell direct to consumer in the US, UK and Canada. We've shipped as far as China. People find us, they love us, and they keep on buying it again and again and again. All right, And you're also selling if you mentioned direct to consumer too, right? So what percentage of your sales are through your website? Well, yeah, so we started off as a food service company. so That is the bulk of sales. We' eighty percent Hotels, restaurants and cafes We then get into supermarkets. there's only two supermarket chains in Barbadas. And so we are competing with a lot of international brands. You can't because of our tourism is high end, there's every international brand you could think of has come benefit is Because of that we're actually able to create and craft a product that is of international standard and even better We have now won twenty five awards in the UK for our products. And it gives us the want to say, can we push further? I mean, we used to import Italian espresso into Barbadas. It's how I learned everything that I know But I'm importing an alien culture to my island So why can't I do the reverse? Got it. And the idea is you want to turn this into a brand beyond Barbados Um correct. actuallyually, what's your question for us before we ye Well, I guess, because in Susan it's very important, as I said, my wife and I have been running this company and we bootstrapped from the very beginning. Your story is very interesting, how you never took on investors You Howas I think you failed forward sometimes, you were always on the brink of failing and that's sometimes that's how happens with entrepreneurs That' what happens The challenge I have is I am based on an island. Everything that I do costs three times more. Just like I have to go to a trade show. I have to get on a plane. I can't drive to the next island or to the next country How do you think I could scale my company internationally while still being based in Barbadas., interestnteresting dilemma. Susan, I have some thoughts I'm happy to start. I would love to hear your thoughts or any questions you might have for Domic. This is a great one, really Fs My questions is like where is the closest Marketplace with the most potential. That is a great question. The closest marketplace will be the United States or the UK The reason why we've always focused on the UK is because historically Barbadas