Creating a Passion Fruit Jingle

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If you like it and you want to hear more stories like this one, you can sign up to be a premium member at hyperfixed pod.com slash join and uh enjo y Hey, this is Alex, and you are listening to a Hyperfix Premium episode. And uh this episode is interesting because it was actually begun before the show ever started. Sort of. Let me explain. So when we launched Hyperfix back in 2024, I had some very lofty goals for the show, primarily just surviving, because the marketplace is in contraction, shows are getting cancelled, people are getting laid off, the stuff that's getting greenlit is mostly celebrity chat shows. So the fact that we're doing a narrative show independently and not folding, I me an, we're doing it. And it's all all because of you guys mostly. If you are listening to this, it's you are keeping the show afloat. So thank you very much. But with all that being said, with all of the confidence that has come from making the show independently for a year, I have been very humbled in the process of making this show. For one thing, I learned that the entire premise of this show, like the very idea that I would be able to solve all of your problems, especially for a show that's four people and we're putting out an episode once a week, was so much harder than I ever could have imagin ed. But in the very beginning, I was so confident and I was like ready to take on anything. And so, what I originally thought was going to be our pilot episode is what we are discussing And while we haven't been able to solve this problem y et, you'll see why it's just a little bit out of our reach. Maybe I was biting off a bit more than I could chew, but I have been thinking about it ever since. I can't let this one go. And so this is oh it's a great start to the day. And that's mostly because of Lee, the guy who brought us the problem in the first place. My name's Lee. Uh as you can probably guess from my accent. I didn't grow up in Austin, Texas, where I live. I'm from Australia. Okay, so you live in Austin. Why did you how did you end up in Austin? It's a great question. I moved to San Francisco originally. I work in tech and that seemed like the logical place to find a tech job when I moved over here. But I also quickly realized that I didn't enjoy setting my wallet on fire when I paid rent every month. So as much as I love that city, it was a short-term situation. And randomly some of the only other folks I was decent friends with in the US were in Texas. So I came over here, we did a bit of a road trip around and it seemed like an interesting enough place and I love hot weather and but it would tick all the bo x But I'm not capable of fixing that. I do think if the story pans out, he could become a very rich man. But anyway, Lee was reaching out to us about a different problem. One that I imagine many expats face, which is when you move across the world, you leave things behind. Like little things that you never thought twice about until suddenly they're just not available anymore. Can you tell me a little bit about sort of like moving to the US and what the big culture shock aspects of living here were, aside from the obvious one that we are here to discover, to discuss, rather? Yeah, so nobody seems to know how to say my name over here. So where I'm from, L E I G H. Uh it's just as common as L E E and people hear they say that name Lesing Lee, but over here I've got a running list of all the different names I've had, just struggling to communicate. It was a much bigger deal than I thought. Like I've been I've been here on vacation, but it's when drive thru orders, it is a total no go unless there's like an app I can order on. So So what if people call you instead of Lee? I get lag a lot, uh Lee. Um so I'm at a point now where like if I have to engage with someone in a customer service experience, I have to give my name. My year default name is Barry Explosion, because if I'm gonna pick a name, it's gonna be a good one. Okay. So you reached out to me for a specific reason, and there this one struck me in a way that many questions haven't, and I'm not entirely sure why. So I would like to start by asking this. W hat is a passion fruit? Imagine make a kiwi fruit out of yoke. That's a good place to start. I'm not doing a good job of selling it, am I? Yeah, that sounds truly disgusting, but please tell me more. So it's a it's a staple fruit in Australia, right? It's like you think tropical fruits like passion fruit and mango. Passion fruit is tier one, it's right up there. And you'll see it in all sorts of things like in yogurts, um in fruit salad. But then you've got the whole other side of the equation, which is the artificial passion fruit candy flavor, which also does not seem to exist in the US. So I would describe it as it covers so many taste spectrums. It's got a lot of tartness, but it's got a bit of sweetness to it. There's some crunchy seeds in the middle that have their own flavour. There's a whole lot going on there, and it's a delightful mess to eat. Tell me what your problem is. This started very early on. Um I was experiencing my first Thanksgiving and being confronted with my friends with all these treats like putting tiny marshmallows and something called salad, all these new culinary experiences that were brand new to me. So I thought I can come to the table and I can bring an Australian dessert and that can be my contribution. So we have a very classic dessert called a Pablova, which I'm actually pretty sure we stole from New Zealand, but we do that a lot. Um and it's like a meringue and you get all this uh lovely whipped cream and then you put all this delicious fresh tropical fruit on it as well. And passion fruit is a core key part of this dessert. So innocently, I went off looking uh just at my local grocery store for passion fruit, thinking they'd be in the fruit and vegetable section, they wouldn't cost very much. I couldn't find an ything. And I started asking around. I was surprised how many people had not heard of Passion Fruit when I just thought it was a staple everywhere in the world. And I realize at this point our hard least to get passion fruit in the US. I think some of the high-end groceries like Whole Foods, I think they get it in seasonally, but then they cost like I'm not even kidding like fifteen or sixteen bucks each which I'm embarrassed enough to sell I am paid because I was that desperate. I tried to grow my own passion for it in my yard and everything I every plant I look at turns to dust. So that's been uh not so not such a great adventure. But yeah, I've just been baffled at how hard it is to find. You can maybe find frozen pulp, but I have spent too much money on acquiring fashion fruit into this tantrum. When I've been desperate for a taste from home, I've imported cans of passion fruit flavoured soda. Mostly to prove to colleagues how good it is. And even that didn't work because they were out for a few days when I saw this candy my fridge for days of end. I just couldn't stop staring at it and I just drank it, so I didn't even get to taste it. But I spent way too much money trying to get passion fruit into this country, and I feel like you're all missing yard. I think that this isn't about mates, it's about the US. The US meets fashion cre w. Can you tell me like some of your favorite products that you miss? Aside from like a pavlova, what are some amazing things that you missed? Either made with passion fruit or like passion fruit flavored? Pavlova is obviously aren't there. That's a classic.. Mm-hmm It's almost the default option if you're having like Greek yogurt, for example. You can stir in the passion fruit pulp and you get all those lovely gooey passion fruit tastes, but also all the lovely seeds that are in there, which are quite sweet when you butt into them. Um the passion fruit soda, there is a civil war raging in Australia over the superior passion fruit uh soda. You have to pick one and stand with your choice. So you're either Team Passiona or Team Pasito. And the correct choice is Passiona. So Well I got a cop to having just looked at Passion Fruit for the first time while we're doing this interview and feeling like it looks a little gross. No, no, no. That's the mistake. You're seeing three different amazing taste experiences all in one delightful package from nature. Having you sold out of that. Um the seeds really make it. It's so unique um they're really kind of crunchy and sweet and the overall texture of a passion fruit is amazing but I've tried to explain this to people and colleague has accused me of they don't want to try this fruit because they feel like it's selling itself too hard in its name. Like it's like, well, I'm so passionate. I'm full of passion. I'm delicious. Try me. And that's their objection that it's trying too hard with its name. So I don't know. Maybe you need a rebranding. I don't know what we need to do, but I really feel like's this country missing out . Before talking to Lee, I didn't really feel like there was a fruit in the world that I was missing out on. Partially because when it comes to fruit, I am basic as hell. I am like an apples, bananas, grapes guy. But also, I didn't feel like I was missing out because I didn't really know that passion fruit existed as anything beyond like a candy flavor. I'd never been like walking through the grocery store and seeing a passion fruit and been like, oh my god, I gotta try that. I don't think I'd ever even noticed a passion fruit if there was one in the grocery store. Which did feel strange until I looked up a little more about it. You see, passion fruit is a tropical fruit. It needs heat and humidity to survive. It originated in South America and it's mostly grown in Braz il. And I've only ever lived in the Midwest and the Northeast. So maybe that explains it. But you know, not really. Because I also learned that there are some passion fruit growers in the US, in Puerto Rico, in southern Florida, in Southern California, and in Hawaii. And that only confused me more because you know, the same thing can be said of fruits like kiwis and mangoes, and you can find both of those basically anywhere. So my question is like, why do you think this is happening? Because there are places in the United States where it can grow, California, Florida. Why do you think that passion fruit and passion fruit flavored products are so hard to get here? I've asked this question too. It seems like I believe it grows really well in well in Mexico, so I thought that there would have been a lot of activity there. I could be wrong, but maybe it's much more profitable to grow avocados in the same region, I don't know. But I'm really confused. I don't know why this has missed everyone. It's it's really uh something you're all missing out on. I don't know if there's like no passion fruit industry board that's like egg passion fruit trying to push it on the country. Maybe that doesn't exist and it does for other fruits. I have no idea. I wonder if it's just a palette difference where it's a very hot fruit. Uh there is sweetness to it, but there's definitely elements of like the Kiwi fruit style tartness, for example. Like that's in there. Every grocery store in America sells grapefruit juice. Like we're okay with certain levels and certain kinds of tartness. So I wouldn't say it's that. For Marco Juice, that's something that was new to me. If you're selling that and not passion fruits, the priorities are in their own place. Would you be willing to relocate if it held the promise of of consistent passion fruit consumption. I mean it it's a fact. I I live in Texas and this entire state could go insane at any moment. So it's good to have a plan B. And if that's influenced by tropical fruit, I'm here for it . Okay, so what would the ideal solution to this problem be for you? I think a good place to start is we need a mainstream snack brand of some sort to wrap their arms around this. And we're not talking about when companies introduce new flavors that maybe have something a little bit too exotic in it. Have you noticed they'll pair it with like a safe, comforting flavor? So it's never just passion fruit, it's like passion fruit, but also pineapple, you know, so you don't have to be too scared. We need to embrace this wholeheartedly. We need to wrap our arms around passion fruit on its own. In all its glory. This needs to happen. And hopefully the fruit kind of comes the demand for the fruit follows through. What would feel like an ideal solution to you? Would it be like, okay, I can get passion fruit at the grocery store and also I can get passion fruit flavored soda. That would be lovely. That's a great place to start. Maybe we need to make passion fruit edgy. Has it got an image problem? Like this c I think maybe this like your reaction to both seeing and hearing about passion fruit was quite visceral and maybe it's an education campaign that uh maybe this looks like nature's attempt at a cabro cream egg but it's actually delicious. If I do find like the passion fruit growers of the United States, and they're like, you know, we would really like Lee to be our spokesperson because honestly, your fervor, I don't want to say passion, your fervor for this particular fruit is huge. You know why I didn't realize till I started talking to you, honestly? Alright, well look, I can't guarantee I'm gonna be able to solve this problem. Um that's one of the things I need to let everybody know as I'm making this show. I'm gonna look into this and see what I can find out, but Lee, thank you so much for taking the time to talk. I really appreciate it. That's been a delight and wonder ful. Once I hung up with Lee, I was determined to understand why the US was a passion fruit desert. I had caught Lee's passion fruit fever, even though I'd never tasted one before. And so, in order to furiously dig into the research, I went to the grocery store in search of a tas te. Produc ile. U h where do I find how do I find a passion fruit? Which, you know, no surprise turned out to be kinda difficult. Excuse me. Do you all have passion fruit? I think they do. I think it's over there. Next to the um parsimony. Okay. Right by the bananas. Thank you. Also, what the fuck is a parsim on? Uh I found them . So they're very squishy. They feel a little like rotten avocados . Uh is that a good sign ? Whatever. I found them. I'm going to purchase them now. Remember to stand up. Holy shit. It's 350 apiece. Those things are tiny. They're about the size of an egg. Alright . I'm doing it. And then I got the passion fruits home and of course recorded myself trying them for the first time. This thing's hard to hard to cut open. Hold on. Alright, uh looks a little crazy inside. It kind of reminds me of the underside of the face hugger from the sequel to Ali en. Oh my god. This is so good. How do I even describe what this tastes like? In America, we have been conditioned to like a certain kind of flavor that's called tropical, tropical flavor. That's what this tastes like. It's like very juicy and it's got crunchy seeds in it. And it's insanely delicious. And also insanely expensive. Fucking $350 a piece. And there's not a lot inside each one. But um the Alex Goldman review is tastes tropical. Citrusy, kind of tart, but with a little bit of sweet ness. Way sweeter than say a grapefruit. I give this an 8 out of 10. Maybe a 9 out of maybe an 8.5 out of 10. I do hasten to add though that there's like weird little nubs that stick out of the inside of the skin. All I'll say is they make me uneasy. They make me uneasy . It's almost spring, and you know what that means. It's time to wear fewer clothes. But you can't wear no clothes. If you did, you'd be arrested. So to avoid being arrested, try Quince. 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Quince dot com slash hyperfixed. Don't go outside nak ed This show is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo at Odoo.com. That's odo.com. So at this point, like I am fully on board Team Passion Fruit. My passion is peaked. I am team Lee. Passion Fruit is awesome. The US is seriously missing out. But I still don't really understand why. So I reached out to someone who could help me understand a little bit more about this fru it. My name is Eric Staffney. I'm an extension and research professor at Mississippi State University. I study fruit crops, primarily small fruit crops, which includes things like blueberries, blackberries, uh, grapes, uh, muscadines. In 2022, Eric and some other passion fruit researchers conducted a survey of dozens of passion fruit growers in the US, and their goal was to map out where passion fruit is actually being grown, how people are growing it, and most importantly, what problems those growers are running into. Their hope was to fix those issues and maybe finally give the US a real passion fruit industry. The reason really started working on it is because of climate change. Growing here, potentially a like, you know, a specialty crop or something to make money on. What can we possibly grow that's different than what we do now? And as I went through this process, I kind of found out that boy, the passion fruit industry in the United States is small and it's not very uh coordinated. There seem to be US climates where passion fruit is viable. I I don't understand why there's so little of it. So South Florida is where most of it is grown. Um, but there are also places in uh California, of course, like Hawaii or Puerto Rico or Guam, places like that also, Dorel. The other thing is it's expensive, there's a lot of handling. Okay. Um the market is is not as developed as probably it could be. Um and so the competition is, you know, for especially for processed fruit is very difficult. Um, so almost all the fruit that's grown in the US is for fresh fruit. And you know, the market's just really aren't that developed. You know, you might be able to find it in New York City, but I can't find it in any of the grocery stores where I l ive. It's really high priced because there's a lot of inputs into it and a lot of hand labor, so it's expensive. After surveying these dozens of passion fruit growers in the US, Eric and his colleagues found that the main thing standing in the way of their market penetration was labor availability . Managing passion fruit is highly dependent on intense manual labor. It needs to be planted in a very certain way, the vine standing upright so that gets a lot of sun. And it's also very fragile, which means that farmers need to actually hand pick it frequently so that it doesn't get damaged. Meaning, unlike, for example, citrus fruits, it can't just be mechanically harvested. Um being The other part is that there's a lot of disease problems. Virus is a huge problem, this meaning that the vines do not live exceedingly long, so they have to be replaced over time. One of the things that I read is that Brazil is the biggest uh like producer of passion fruit, but then it also says that the animal and plant health inspection service uh doesn't allow imports of passion fruit from Brazil. Yeah, that's true. There's only certain countries that are allowed to import passion fruit. And one of the reasons for that is because of the the pests that exist in those So it's extremely limited places that can send it to the United States right now. So it seems like there are a lot of things that keep it from being finding like real purchase in the US. Do you think that at least part of that is just like demand is not super high? Like does the passion fruit need like uh some kind of advertising campaign to make it more popular in the United States? Yeah. I think a large portion of the US population has no idea of what a passion fruit is, what it tastes like, what it even looks like. Now , I think that's changing because of some of the marketing around it, um, but also we're having a higher percentage of Latino uh population. And Hispanics are very familiar with this group. Okay. So to summarize, it feels like there's two prongs to this. One is there's not much passion fruit grown in the US because there is like not a ton of land where it can be grown. And the other thing is that the reason that there are not more passion fruit uh growers is because there's just not as not enough demand for it. I think both of those things are are tru e. I mean the other thing is like, you know, the there's a market component to it too, because if they were cheaper, more people would be buying them, thereby increasing demand. Yeah. But because the demand is low, it's like the self-perpetuating situation. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, you know, if we can figure out ways to do mechanization, mechanized harvest, um, you know, reduce the labor inputs, uh, increase the yield s, all those sort of things would would ca cause the price to become lower. We're already seeing differ ent fruits that you know just years ago we never saw dragon fruit, you know that that's something that exists now in almost a regression score where you know five years ago you never saw and so that is also another one that's on the rise. Um so yeah, I think the model is there. It'll take some coordination, you know, between all of the growers that already exist. And right now it's just like the wild west. I mean, in the in the thing, it says that you only got something like forty-three complete surveys. I found it kind of shocking. Like I didn't realize that the industry would be that small. I mean the other thing that I immediately thought to do when I was working on this story is to be like, uh oh, I should probably find like the American Passion Fruit Growers Association. There is not one that I know. It doesn't exist. Yeah. And we had a really difficult time finding growers. And you know, I I think it will take as a grower organization. And that has been the case for a lot of different crops and big, big crops. You know, that has just been a more of a recent thing like blueberries. You know, blueberries are a huge prop now worldw ide, but really it's only in the last few years that it's become coordinated in terms of market . Another one is pecans. So, you know, getting pecans on plates throughout the US and in throughout the world. So growers give a certain percentage of their uh crop sales to a marketing board. Um and then somebody who has the smarts about marketing takes that and you know they'll do they'll go overseas and they'll you know do different programs to to sell it to you know different countries and they'll do uh podcasts and they'll do, you know, all kinds of different things to get the word out. Especially since there's not even like a growers associ ation. Right. I feel like I feel like passion fruit needs a good PR person . I don't know. Maybe we can get Samuel L. Jackson to be the spokesperson for that was the first name that came to mind. Maybe they just need a good someone to do some passion fruit advertisements. So great news everyone, that's exactly what we did. We called Samuel L. Jackson and had him become the first passion fruit spokesperson. We didn't do that. If we had, we wouldn't have held on to the story for a year and a half. But I did and do really believe that what Passion Fruit needs is a good marketing campaign in the US. Its own, you know, got milk moment. If you don't remember that campaign, it was funded in part by dairy farmers in the 90s, and it was on every billboard and bus stop with people like Michael Jordan with a milk mustache, and it reached something like 80% of Americans on any given day. Can you imagine if 80% of Americans saw passion fruit every da y? But since there's no Passion Fruit Growers Association in the US to advocate for that, I want to be the guy who makes that happen. So I reached out to the best marketing guy I know to figure out how we could make passion fruit as ubiquitous as milk in the 90 s. My name is Matt Nevins, and I am a group creative director at an ad agency. You are in a very cluttered room right now. Is that a basement? Yeah. Or a spare room? It sure is. That's my uh basement gamer dungeon. You know, this is where my wife keeps me. Yeah, I it look. I it's n far be it for me to tell anybody how to live, but you need to tidy up in there. Look, just because a guy has a messy basement doesn't mean he can't have an incredible list of bona fights when it comes to being a creative director. And that's exactly what Matt has. The pieces of business that I work on are Pepsi and platis which is cadiva and flips chocolate covered pretzels that sort of st uff so i i'm responsible for managing a team that brings creative ideas to life. So the reason I'm coming to you today is w we have a problem. And the problem is there's this guy named Le e. He lived in Austral ia. And um moved to the United States, and what he discovered was one of his favorite things, which is incredibly plentiful there, was absent to the United States, and that is passion fruit. And I have been looking a lot into this and I think a lot of it is because the demand is l not super high. And so we were thinking like, okay, let's figure out a way to raise demand. How do we advertise for passion fruit? What are some ideas we can come up with? And I would say that right now the hyperfixed checking account has about $4,000 in it. So I don't think we can do anything quite quite that fancy . Honestly, you could probably do you could probably do a lot with $4,000 if you spend it in the right way. I I mean, I think for something like this, specifically with produce and and stuff like that, you look at avocados, for example, like avocados are one of those things that exp likeike I've everyone likes to believe that avocados exploded a couple years ago. Avocados have obviously been around forever, but like they became the hipster thing of avocado toast, and you know, millennials could buy houses if they weren't spending twenty-eight dollars on an avocado toast but avocados were one of those things that became trendy right like and part of what made it trendy was certain restaurants serving them. Part of what made avocados trendy was the social conversation that happened around avocados. So honestly, to for my mone y to raise uh awareness of like an actual piece of produce using social and social influencers and and stuff like that. Like getting other people to do the work for you is always the best the best way of of getting a message out there because you know the stakes are pretty low uh and you know the, pressure is kind of off of you. You think that we should we should just get influencers to talk about passion fru it? I do. I think that that's if you if you have a small budget, that's the way to maximize bang for your buck. A couple of them are gonna stick. And the ones that stick, they're gonna get a crazy number of impressions for. Um so like granted, four thousand dollars is obviously not a a big budget, but if it's weird enough uh and it it catches fire, then that's kind of all you need. At the end of the day, if you are not Pepsi and you do not have a nearly infinite budget, is it just like throwing stuff at the wall and hoping stuff will stick not necessarily but i believe that the riskier brands are the ones that are actually at the end of the day playing it a little bit safer than the big brands because they they're not gonna lose a couple million dollars if one of these stunts goes wrong. Right. They might lose a little bit of of brand love if people really hate it, but the upside is outweighs the uh any negative effects, in my opin ion. Like I think you should with passion fruit, you should like just go hard at at like Virginia, like and instead of Virginia's for lovers, like Virginia's for well, I don't know, some weird passion shit. Or like make it do a pop-up hedonism somewhere. What is a pop-up hedonism? What are you talking about? You don't remember hedonism from when we were like that it was those weird like tropical sex clubs that people would go to? No. You don't remember this? What what? I mean, I I say it like I never went to one, obviously, but like it was a thing. If you look up hedonism travel, I would be willing to bet it still exist s. All inclusive adults-only resort s? That's exactly right. Hmm . I don't think that I'm gonna do that. I mean, just think of all the passion though. Yes. Passion is a fun word. Uh, and I feel like it's it could be used in a lot of different ways to come up with like great ideas. How do you feel about jingles? I'm very curious about this. Are you like um are you like lukewarm on them? Are you bullish on them? Uh I would say I'm lukewarm on jingles. Yeah. What would the passion for jingle be? Uh difficult to eat, but delicious and sweet. U h uh Oh man. But see now see this is why you get paid the big bucks, because I'm totally st stumped here. Um okay. Diff difficult to eat but, delicious and sweet