AI Pets and Hardware Supply Chains

It's time for intelligent machines. Jeff Jarvis is here. Paris has the day off. Emily Forlini from PC Magazine joins us. Peter Steinberger, the creator of OpenClaw, takes a job at OpenAI Anthropic releases a new release. Very powerful, in fact, it's new releases all around. We're talking AI next. Intellig machines. Podcasts you love. From people you trust. This is Twit. This is Intelligent Machines with Jeff Jarvis and Emily Forlini, episode 858, recorded Wednesday, February 18, 2026. The itinerant salt miner from Buffalo. It's time for intelligent machines to show about Artificial intelligence, robotics, and all the smart stuff. All around us. Parenthetically, maybe the most important innovation in technology in some time. Uh, Jeff Jarvis is here, professor of journalistic innovation emeritus at the City University of New York, Craig Newmark School of Graduate. I tried to throw him, but I couldn't. He's the author of the Gutenberg Parenthesis and Magazine and the new hot type. Pre order now at Jeff Jarvis dot com. Hello, Jeff. Oh, I'm back on a real microphone trying to make it work. Sitting on your coccyx and a real chair and your L three. L three is okay. Ish. Well, I'm glad you're feeling all better. Yeah, yeah, inch by inch. You know, went to grocery shopping today. This these are major victories. So we have another man down. Paris is out today because Uh. Sinuses are killing her. She's got she's had an affection for a long time, I feel like. Uh she's been putting up with this. I thought it was just me making her angry, but now I know it wasn't just me. But good news, Emily Forlini is here. Senior editor at uh senior reporter at PC magazine. It's always great to see Emily. You see her every month on Tech News Weekly with Micah Sargent and She does a weekly show with Mike Yalgan all about AI. Hi Emily. Hello. Glad to be here. Sad for Paris. I hope you're feeling better, Paris, if you happen to watch this. But it is nice to be here. We uh were gonna interview Guy Kawasaki today. Um but unfortunately the interview which was scheduled uh Jeff and I were going to pre-record on Monday. I forgot about it. Because we're forgettable. Uh so I did a little Tai Chi, which is apparently now on our Twit feed, I'm sorry to say. And that wasn't my intent. I was just stalling for time. Jeff and I had a nice half hour. You didn't show us some moves? Like what I did. Do a few moves. I do I do it every morning. I do uh I love I love Tai Chi. I recommend it for any. One of the silly name one of the one of the one of the It's Yang long form. Thank you, Baskin Roman. And uh 108 moves. It is a if you do it right, it's a half an hour. Um, but I haven't learned all three sections yet. I've only learned the first two and I'm just getting the second one down. It there's a lot of moves. What if you do it wrong? If you do it wrong, my teacher says uh that you should just say that's how they do it in Yangtze province. No one will know the device. He says it's right somewhere. I feel b very bad on our our last class. Somehow I was in front of the room. And uh I left out like a whole section. I just moved on and uh Everybody followed me. And then at the end the guy said teacher said. Yeah, you know you left out I said, Oh, I'm so embarrassed But I actually uh Steve Martin told me once uh that what he and Robin Williams were doing Waiting for Godot on Broadway Which is a notoriously hard show to do because it repeats Uh At one point. Robin skipped a whole scene a whole act. And jumped to the third act. And then they realized and they he said, We looked at each other. And we went And nobody noticed. It was just a little shorter that night than usual. And that's if if you're no waiting for Godot, I you could see how that would happen. So Anyway I don't feel I don't feel that bad. I didn't miss I wasn't playing to a Broadway audience when I did it. So uh no interview today. That's okay though, because uh there's a lot of news and a lot of things to talk about. Fresh perspective here. The big news uh broke uh on Sunday in the middle of twit. So I didn't really get to talk about it. We hadn't prepared. the uh creator of OpenClaw, the Austrian Peter Steinberger Uh took a job. He was wooed, as you might imagine. Now let me if if you watch this show, you know about Open Claw. It was originally Claude. What was open clawed? What was it? Clawed bot. It was originally clawed C-L A W as in Lobster Claw. But because it used uh you know Anthropic's Claude as one of its models, the folks at Anthropic were not too happy. They wrote him a letter. He said it was a nice letter initially. Uh and so he renamed it Maltbot, he said, about five AM in a display. Because lobster is malt. Fever and the lobsters lose their shell, right? And that lasted about a month, a week. No, not even that, a day. Yeah. And uh it became open claw. Which actually is okay. And it what what it is is is it's just a bunch of instructions. For an AI. that keep it running all the time and give it the ability uh to hook into a variety of things like messaging apps, your calendar, your email. And a lot of people have gone crazy with it. Uh it w was the most popular GitHub Uh repo. With at the last time I saw it, a hundred eighty five thousand stars, which is a vast You you give a star if you you know, are happy, you know, you think this is great, or you know, it's a vote. It's a like, basically. Let me just see what open c two hundred nine thousand. Two hundred nine thousand. Nobody's ever had anything like that, uh, on GitHub so hugely popular. Um Good for GitHub. Yeah. It's yes, it is you know what? All of this AI is very good for GitHub. Yeah, like Stack Overflow has kind of gone the opposite direction, just kind of dried up and gone just gone extinct. But GitHub, I mean it's look at it, it's stays in the press, it's hitting new highs. Actually it's funny because Open Claw was good not just for Microsoft's GitHub. But it was also very good for Apple. Because uh Well, for an interesting reason. It's so potentially so dangerous. That people are afraid to run it on their regular computer. People were running out and buying Mac minis just to run it. A Mac Mini is kind of the perfect machine. It did run anywhere. I've run it on a Linux box. It'd run anywhere, but Mac Mini's kind of like the perfect machine to run it. But it's cheap. People were running out. In fact, so much so that Apple Is that a stock? If you wanted to get a Mac Mini today, it'd take you a month. Or to get it. So Open Claw has been very very been very has as they say, been very, very good for Microsoft's GitHub and for Apple. But uh now we can safely say it's been very, very good for Peter Steinberg, its creator. He has been wooed, he said, by Venture capitalists. Um Uh by OpenAI, I'd imagine many, many others. Saying Peter. Peter, Peter, come to work for us. He said the only thing he said he did, somebody said, Did you hear from Anthropic, another beneficiary of this? Cause it most people use it with Claude. Claude Code. Uh, he said, The only thing I've ever gotten from Anthropic was legal. Letters so that's not good. Uh apparently Meta offered him more money even than OpenAI. And and Zuck himself was wooing. Yeah, well and and you know about the check suck rights, right? Yeah. Right. Probably hundreds of millions of dollars. It's just funny because the last interview I saw with him, he was on that podcast TBPN. You heard of that? Mm-hmm. He just openly said, I already have a ton of money. You know yeah. He's a startup He considers himself very wealthy. Yeah so now I mean this could be a good kind of rags to Riches, independent developer post something on GitHub, it goes crazy. It's not that. Don't be mistaken. No, in fact the story is he sold his startup for so much money he took three years off. It didn't do anything. And then Not long ago, just about six months ago, said uh Vib coding stuff, man. And uh created open claw. He said he was in retirement. He said his Twitter bio said it was okay in retirement to build this. So he was set. He was he thought he was good for life. Now he's working at Open AI, which is a real twist for him, but He was already good financially. He's in his forties. Look at him. He's not he's not too old. Yeah. Look at that guy. He's a happy man. Deep in vibe, coding mode, tinkering with shiny web tech, chasing Australian accent. He doesn't have a strong accent. Oh he does he's he's kind of quiet, actually. He's done a lot of interviews. We've We should probably get him on. Uh after I saw him on TN T P N B I um 'Cause he was so kind of Laconic. He was kind of Qui and didn't say a lot. So I thought well it won't be a great interview, but uh no his English is very good. He lives in London as well as Vienna. Well he's from Australia. You say Australian, not Austrian. Austrian. Austrian. Austrian. Oh that's what the difference is. There's a difference, Jeff. That's why I was waiting. I was waiting for Leo's bad Australian accent. Okay. Yeah, that would be very off. No, he talks like this. So uh he um I think the money did not motivate him. They said outbid Sam Alman. When he said he wanted to run independently. That's what I think Sam Alman offered him. And and so OpenClaw is now in a Uh its own. Open source. thing. I don't know what you would call it. But it's uh it's n it's not it's out of the reach of anybody. There's a community around it. It will continue to proceed, then he gets to work it up in AI. Yeah. So I guess maybe he was a Like the idea that they didn't want to assume ownership that they would support. The project with money. He says, I felt open AI was the best place to continue pushing on my vision and expand its reach. Said we share the same vision. The community around Open Claw is something magical and Open AI has made strong commitments It already sponsors the project. I'm working to make it a foundation. It will stay a place for thinkers, hackers, and people that want a way to own their own data. The irony of all of this is in about five minutes Open Claw will be so yesterday. Oh yeah, I think OpenAI just is trying to k to kill it. But they really got him with that recruiting pitch. I don't know if they're gonna kill it. I Well, they don't want him to spin up his own company because they tried to do their AI browser and it kinda n has not taken off. And then he just thought of agents in a different way and they were I think they were a little nervous 'cause they were the hottest thing since Jet GPT came out. It's pretty c to me it's pretty clear what the lesson of Open Claw is that Many have said this. This is the year of agentich AI. Where Um It's it's uh in my opinion, I think I don't know, you can you can Tell me I'm wrong. The chatbots are kind of not a gr not a great way to see what AI can do. This is the commercial product. It's certainly what open AI has been pushing. It's what Grok is all about. Anthropic kind of went a different way. They said, you know what, we don't I mean we have they have a chap, but we we really want to make tools for coders. And uh That's where my eyes were open. That's where it really succeeds. And I think that that's why Open Claw is so interesting, 'cause it takes that And and then turns it into something that you do chat with. You know, you could put it in Discord or Telegram. Most people seem to put it in Telegram, but it can work with Apple's messages and and any you know, almost any chat platform that's not completely shut up. And uh And you talk to it, but it then goes off and codes, you know, does stuff in the background, goes through your emails, looks at your calendar and stuff. That's actually. That's an agent. Yeah, it's an agent. And it works twenty four seven on your behalf. A lot of people have likened it to having a personal assistant. Uh Maybe not the smartest. Personal assistant. Maybe even not the most honest personal assistant. Was it a mistake to introduce LLMs to the world as chat? Did that lead to all kinds of problems about oh my God, it can do this and it it can it can brainwash us. Uh it hallucinates. Um if it the problem is if it been interest to the world as what you're working on, Leo, it still required a higher level of skill. Yeah, you know, I um Six months ago. Uh I started I mean I've been playing with open With Clawed uh code since it came out. Which is about almost exactly a year ago. And one of the first things I tried to do I don't know if you remember this, Jeff, is write An app for twit. That would let you subscribe to the podcast, listen to and watch the podcast. You know, podcast app. Mm-hmm. And it really it it uh it got it got stalled out on the API, on the Twit API. It just w I had the hardest it was struggle. It was a struggle. No, that's not right. No, that's not right. No, you got the. Uh Yes, Monday. I sat down with a much later version of Claude Code in Opus four point six. And It un it did everything fine. It understood it. It did it it did a great job. It was like a light and day. So Eve, yes. But uh interface isn't a great w way to use these. But even then, it was also the models weren't as good. The models got really good recently. And this is true, by the way, of open AI's uh chat. Well they got really good, I think it might be true with certain things versus other things. They got really good at coding and programming and aging. Although, you know, the latest thing Anthropic did is a uh a plug in for Excel. Which is kind of mmm really good. Like really good. And so that's kinda it's still a kind of coding. Yeah. But I think this is and actually this is the real question is You know. Is it gonna be I it was sort of my contention that, well, this is the first thing. If you can get the AI to do code, then it can write its own code, then it can get better. And then you can get better at everything else. Not sure if that's true. It may never get better at, you know. images or movies or writing. I mean there's evidence it is, but Maybe it'll never be up to snuff. Well, it is true that it's definitely a big AI coding moment right now. Yes. And I think That makes sense for us to focus on that. And you see open AI kind of trying to narrow in that direction. Whereas before it was all about image and video and they were kind of proving that AI could do everything and then talking about how it was gonna automate everything. Now, this week they just wanna compete with anthropic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh well, now remember, OpenAI has Johnny I've working on some piece of hardware. Uh this week Apple bit of an eye roll for me. Uh well maybe Apple has also apparently, this is a rumor, but Mark Erman says Apple is uh uh working really hard to release this year or next. Glasses three kinds of agentic AI hardware pieces. Glasses Earbuds. And uh append it. They're looking at a pendant. Pin. I want a brooch with rhinestones. Yeah. Flashing Apple. I think it will be a fashion statement. Sure. Um But there's no point in that hardware. We saw the humane pin. We saw the little R1. There's no point in the hardware if the software doesn't do anything you need it to do. So you've got to have this so the but but you need an interface to an agentic AI as well. And I think something that a wearable makes a lot of sense. So You think OpenAI knows that and that's why they hired John they gave Johnny I six billion? Apple knows that's where they're working as fast as they can. They don't want the iPhone. to become a has been. Uh Anthropic's not, interestingly. Anthropic's just kind of. Anthropic's more B to B stay in I'm curious to hear your views on this email. I think Anthropic is is is succeeding and is pushing more toward what I would consider B to B. and uh and technology user. rather than trying to be retail everybody. Totally. And they were the first ones, I think, to do that. And it is interesting because their president came from OpenAI and his sister. So they both run anthropic. They came from OpenAI. And they were, I think, among the first to draw lines in the sand of we're not gonna do this and we're gonna do that. So a a good example is they don't do image generation, which a lot of people don't know on Claude. Yeah, so they narrowed early they were like, This is gonna be a thing for work, we're gonna do this, um, for workplaces, we're gonna, you know, get enterprise contracts. Very important. pissing off Microsoft. And um they're they're just going accelerating in it. And now OpenAI is I think thinking to itself, Shoot, we should've done that. Meanwhile, Open AI has disbanded its mission alignment team. Mission Schmission. Mission Schmission. Whatever. I mean they were created, let's not forget the whole point of open AI, this is Sam Altman and Elon Musk created this so that the big guys wouldn't own AI, that it would be open and to the pub to everybody. Well, that mission's long gone. Uh, they weren't actually that Long. around. They were formed in September twenty twenty four. According to Platformer, they were dedicated to promoting the company's Stated mission to ensure that artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity. Eh, forget about it. Um the the former head of it is now the company's chief futurist. He says my goal is to support OpenAI's mission. By studying how the world will change in response to it. Just such a conflict of interest, you know? They keep saying it's gonna automate jobs, but they want that to happen, right? They because that means people are using their platform and they're making money. So I just don't see inherently how how those two missions can work together. I th I think your point Emily is is is even bigger is that OpenAI uh it goes back to what you said about anthropic. They they put boundaries down and said this is our strategy, this is what we're doing. I think what it really exposes about open I said anthropic did that. Open AI has just been this this idea that we're gonna be everything AGI is going to do everything you can ever imagine in all the world means they had no strategy. They grabbed onto things. They they tried to wow people a piece at a time. And we'll have the next model and it can do this or that. I don't think they've ever had a clear strategy. Google, I think, has a clearer strategy. Microsoft hasn't had a clear strategy. Um Perplexity doesn't really have a What happened to perplexity it's hot PR story, weren't they? Amazon bid to buy them or somebody bid to buy them. And now I just haven't heard about them in a long time. So uh in my opinion, the story there was they were always a bridge technology. What uh per perplexity does is they orchestrate multiple other people's models. They don't do models themselves. They they give you access to them and you can do search with it and stuff. And it was it but This is the problem right now. This stuff's moving so fast that i y you can't just put a pin in and say, We're gonna do that. 'Cause five minutes later, nobody needs that anymore. We're gonna do you need to do that. And that's what happened to Perplexity. Uh all of these models do what perplexity did. Um I mean they did innovative things. They they were the first to everyone was gonna do a browser. They were the first one to get a browser out. Interestingly, they put ads in uh a year or so ago and then took him out, said, You know what? People can't trust us if you put ads in. Interesting. I didn't know they did that. Yeah, so they don't do ads anymore. Guess who does ads? Oh, I saw my first one. Have you guys seen it? Did you did? Oh have a seen. Tell us about that because we don't know. Screenshot. Man, it was huge. It was? Yeah. So was it related to the search you were performing? It was very loosely related. It was I was asking something 'cause I've been using AI a lot for design and creative stuff just as I've I've been like renovating this house and stuff. And so it was it was something related to that. And then it was just a Canva ad. Like I was talking about something just very loosely design related and then it was Canva. It took up almost my whole screen, which I thought was crazy because Sam Altman for years has been saying, Oh, they're gonna be so integrated. He always talks about how he loves Instagram ads because they're just part of his fee. They're exactly what he wants. He wants to buy that Tchotchkey. And then I saw this Canva ad and I was like, What the heck, man? What have you been saying? Remember how mad he got over Anthropic Super Bowl ad implying I don't know if you guys can see. How do I this is my phone. This is a screenshot. I was talking It's like a camera. It's right in the middle of the conversation. Right. So I went to type something and I can't even see the previous conversation. See how my keyboard's up? Yeah. And all I can see is Canva sponsored touch up photos fast. I wasn't talking about touching up photo, but like I did not want to see this. And then there's a large disclaimer, astronauts influence the answers you get from Chat GPT or J. There's no answer. Yeah, so it was very disruptive and I was not impressed. Wow. Well we're gonna do a disruptive ad in a moment. So hang on. Hang on. Simon Willison did a diff between OpenAI's uh mission statement before and after. And what they've taken out is this line. We're trying to build AI as part of a larger community and we want to openly share our plans and capabilities along the way. Gone. Mm that's gone. The rest of it's basically the same, but that part is Gone. Uh Not surprised. Yeah. Um Scooter X just put a story in in the uh in the Discord. Said Canva gets um to four billion dollars in revenue as LLM referral traffic rises. Yeah. Does that work. So it's really interesting. I haven't seen another one though. What's up with that? You know? Like when that's why it's not as well targeted because they probably don't have as many advertisers yet, right? It'll get more targeted. Once they get at somebody who's Specialising in using AI to remodel your home. That's the adjustment. Ad said's brought in an entirely new population of advertisers. that didn't operate by the old rules. The the old advertisers followed them. If I was an advertiser, I'd be all over it. I'd be like, Yeah. So you know. Google search ads were so h amazingly effective because they were tied to your interests. Mm-hmm. They're incredibly effective. And that's what they're trying to figure out you know how to advertise to agents. Yeah. Right. And they're I wonder if anyone listening works in advertising because I feel like AI has quietly disrupted that industry, especially with Google search. You're paying for placement on Google search, but now it's just AI overviews, no one sees your ad. Well, look at Zoe Hitzig's uh opinion piece in the New York Times. She worked at Facebook. Went to OpenAI. OpenAI is making the mistakes Facebook made. Quit. Uh Having cashed out a lot of stock, I don't know. She says I don't believe ads are immoral or unethical. AIs expensive to run ads can be a critical source of revenue, but I have deep reservations about open AIs. strategy. Part of the reason she doesn't like it, and this makes sense is that you have been sharing Maybe not me, but maybe some people have been sharing their deepest innermost secrets with Chat GPT. And OpenAI has records of all of that. And she says advertising built on all that information creates a potential for manipulating users. In ways we don't have the tools to understand, let alone prevent and I See what she's saying. Mm-hmm. It it makes a lot of sense. She says that the erosion of open AI's principles to maximize engagement may already be Underway. It's been reported the company already optimizes for daily active users anyway. Probably by encouraging the model to be more flattering. And sympathy. Mm-hmm. Right? It's is it still a Nonprofit OpenAI? Or they researched it. Yes, it is technically they've been trying to. Owned by, controlled by, but it the company itself is a for profit. Yeah, and uh successfully have they been able to split I don't know. Elon's suing them over it. That's the core issue here, because if they were a non profit, they wouldn't have, you know, these profit incentives to do all these things. So they must not be a full nonprofit. They must have they must have switched. Uh yeah, and and and in their culture they never have been either. Soiled when they uh they ousted Sam Altman from the board and then brought him back. They picked their lane. Yeah, they realized that their their strategy I mean they they do have a strategy. It's scale. Full stop. Right. OpenAI did uh ever this is also New Model Week. We'll talk about Anthropic's new model in just a second, but OpenAI Uh just released a hardware based model chat. GPD five three codex. Spark that's designed to work. On a dinner plate size chip. I wanna see a picture of it. Uh let me see if I have uh can find the pictures of Simon Wilson showing you His test of the AIs is whether he it can draw an S a silk a uh uh S V G A scalable vector graphic of a pelican riding a bike. And he says it it's pretty good. I think we should all do dinner plates and just chips off them in on What kind of chips would you guys eat? Are you like a sour cream and onion? I'm a I'm a kind of salt and vinegar kind of. Salt vinegar to you guys are very salt and vinegary. I also like salt and vinegar. It fit us. Well you well welcome to the show. So we can get plates of salt and vinegar chips. Perfect. We'll fit right in. I'll tell you why I think it's interesting that they're doing this. Um If you're gonna do an agent, if you're gonna do a pin, a rhinestone encrusted brooch, you're gonna do earbuds or glasses, you gotta have fast responsive hardware and it's gotta be small and portable. And um so it makes sense that they'd be working along these lines, that's it seems to me. Anthropic also put out a new model, which I've been playing with, uh the you two weeks after they released Opus four six. They've released on it four six. Which is the difference between Sonnet and Opus. Yeah, Opus is the highest end model. Sonnet's the mid size, the mid range model, and Haiku is their cheap model. And it's uh both in in in all three cases it's in terms of intelligence, but also cost. So uh for instance, we the summaries that I generate in our uh show rundowns that I present uh the briefing book I make for you guys. Those are done not by Opus or even by Sana, but by Haiku, 'cause Haiku is sufficient and it's cheap. It's twenty five cents a week. for all of those summaries that I generate. It's cool that you do that and that you know all this. I mean, not many people know what son and opas and haiku are off the top of their. I love this stuff. I love it. So one of the interesting pieces that they added though Uh when they released four six. So four six They're not really forthright. I've seen a lot of speculation about what sonnet is in relation to opus. Uh it seems to be they're essentially similar models Um Mm s slightly modified to be less expensive. Um There were stories that Sonnet four six was gonna uh that Opus four six was gonna be sun at five. And then it was so good they said well call this up as four six. So it's not it's not really clear. It's kind of like when a chipmaker makes the same chip, but part of it doesn't work, so they bin it, they chew and they and they make a lower end laptop with a Lower end the broken chip and the higher end and every chipmaker does this. I think this is kind of similar to that. Well, I'm gonna tell you about that in a second. It's actually kinda like Wi Fi plans. You know, you're getting Wi Fi for your house. bits or megabytes do I need? You never know. And so you're just like, oh maybe I'll just pay for the maximum plan, the new fibre optic, though, whatever. That's like Claude's $200 a month plan. You think you need that to do something like you made the rundown. So you just start paying. And then you realise, oh actually I need half of that, a quarter of that. Yeah. Yeah, but you don't know how much you need. So it just depends basically how much money you have and how excited you are. So this is when you're in Cloud Code, you can you can choose the model. These are the the choices. But notice there's something you could choose Sonnet four six, but there's also Sonnet four six with one million token context. And that is billed at a higher cost, twenty two dollars and fifty cents per million tokens. Uh if you want to get Opus four six with a million context, that's thirty seven fifty per million tokens. So Who's the customer, do you think, of looking at the Well developers. So they also when they released four six Opus, they turned they uh offered a fast mode. Which you turn on it costs twice as actually I think it costs six times as much in tokens. But it's faster. It's for people with lots of money who are in a hurry. It's very much that's what I'm saying. It just depends how It's not smarter. It's not better. It's just faster. Right. You just don't care. You just want to do that. All the stuff I've been doing I've been doing since November twenty fourth was with Opus four six. One of the We've talked about this on the show before. One of the things that happens to a model Context is Uh, you know, it loads your papers, Jeff, and your instructions and various instructions you've set up for it and stuff, then it starts to fill up. It's like it's mem it's basically it's memory. It fills up. When your context gets mostly full. That's when AI start to hallucinate. That's when they start to act silly. Okay. So It's always a little bit of a struggle as you're working. Keep your context from getting to more than eighty percent. Past eighty percent it's unreliable. So the in the process of working with it, you will compact it and and in the process of compacting it you will say, Hey, make some notes about what this conver 'cause it's gonna by the way, when you It starts over, forgets everything it's done. So you say to it. Speaking of a drinking metaphor, I'm like It's drinking too much. It's getting to the end of the night, it's getting loopy, and you go to bed, Just so bad. Let's start over tomorrow. Uh What we've done so far Save those, because I'm gonna clear the context. And when you clear the context, then it reloads those notes. So it's like it's like Memento, you know how he was always making the post-it notes for himself when he wake up. Your name is John. It it's like that. It it wakes up with nothing. So If you have for some people. So I can't remember what the context is it 128,000 tokens? I can't remember what the context is normally. But a million token context. is vast. That is, Jeff, you could get every one of your scientific papers in there and and and and go and it would have them in r in effect in a RAM. It have them in its memory. So That's why it's more expensive. But in theory it would be also more effective. So I'm gonna play with the million. I've set up I've started to use the sonnet million instead of the opus million. Now does that do that cost you in addition to your 250 a month? Yeah, yeah. So uh Sciface says the standard context is 200,000, so it's five times more content. That's a significant jump. Yeah, it's build is extra usage. Let us know how it is. I'll let you know what the bill is. Yeah. Yeah, more importantly. Generally Uh what I do, um Is uh so if I like on Monday I coded most of the day, I used Claude code most of the day, it was twenty bucks. But now I didn't have to pay for it because I have that. max subscription. So it's in in theory unlimited until I run out of tokens, which got it. Don't you think they're kind of messy with the product names? You know, like after just talking about all of it, there's absolutely Sonnet and Haiku. Well Haiku's a poem. Sonnet's a poem. Opus is a work Usually I think of it as symphonic. An o' st is the Latin word for work. So I guess uh is there an is is c is there an opus in a poet in poetry? Maybe these are poetry. I don't know, Hocus Pocus. It seems to be. Ten bucks plus thirty seven fifty per million tokens. So it's expensive. But I think Anthropic's saying well. We've got these enterprises using clawed code to write their SaaS apps. Exactly. If they're in a hurry or they want a you know more effective tool. Well, they're they can quantify it very easily. It's an easy business case because it's just how many software engineering heads, as they call it, am I replacing? Right. So Sonnet four six is Not as in theory, right? It's their intermediate model, not as smart of as Opus four six, but in some ways it's smarter. That's what's really odd. And it and it would be cheaper. Uh it scored s now, the problem with A A uh AI benchmarks is A lot of times these AIs are Post train on the benchmarks. So they're not reliable. But Arc AGI two, which is supposedly an intelligence benchmark. gave uh Son of four six a sixty percent score, which Really ahead of the Almost everything except for Top of the line models from uh Anthropic, Opus four six, and Gemini's uh three deep think, which is very smart. So it's a very it's a in other words. It's their inner m their mid range model and it's it's as smart or smarter than almost everybody else. important. And it's apparently very good at coding. So I've been I'm gonna try it. I haven't written anything substantial, but so far I haven't been able to see a difference. Quick question, Leo. Do you think that the extra charge they're charging you for that is more or less than it costs them? We do not know. They got do they have a margin? Uh are they losing on that still? Well they're gonna they're gonna go public soon. When they go public, then they'll have to report that, I think. Well there there was a story I didn't put in the rundown of estimating how much they're gonna be spending with Amazon and Google Anthropic will be for the hosting hardware stuff. Yeah, for training. So other people are cashing in. Yeah. Oh yeah. Better to be Levi's than the uh forty niners. Um so The race goes on. Anthropic apparently in trouble with the Pentagon, though. This is really an interesting story. Pentagon is threatening to cut off Anthropic Because Anthropic says you don't use us for w for weapons. Well that's woke. Don't be woke, says the P They say two areas are off limits for using anthropics AI models. The mass surveillance of Americans. Good. Anybody, I would hope. Anybody. Well, enemies okay, but um uh you know, you gotta surveil the Chinese. You shouldn't do that. No. And Not I shouldn't say weapons. Fully autonomous weaponry. In other words, weaponry that can without human intervention kill people. Pentagon says, hey, you should let us use your tools for quote all lawful purposes. And with the laws, but the threat is If Anthropic doesn't play along. that the Pentagon will pull their clearance In other words, making him a pariah in the market. Such a strong arm tactic. It's it's a big threat. And it's just a good thing. It's not a good week to do that because Anthropic has so much momentum right now. Yeah. It's not it's not an easy power play, I think, between the two. Claw Anthropic was not happy but the military used Claude to capture Nicholas Maduro. Through Palantir. Well that's the real that's the keystone in this story. Yes. Yeah. Yes. We we will kill your enemies, Palantir. Did you see that video of the of the uh um the Palantir Call? Carp going wacky? Oh see if you can find it real quickly. Um give me a key give me. Wackiest thing. Call Palantir called to who? What's he kind of like a bunker billionaire? Does he look in bunkers? I got it, I got it. I got it. There's a light in there. That's like crazy. Here's the yeah I just got it. It's in there. It's in the chat. It's in the Discord. Oh, Alex Carp you're talking about. Yeah, Carp. Yeah. Oh my God. He says the craziest things. Let me see. Get a load of this. All right. This is uh we played his nutty We're doing it. This is an investor call. And I'm sure you're enjoying this hair as much as I am. The t shirt not talk to analysts about the burden of being right. By the way, he does Tai Chi. He loves Tai Chi. Does it every day. It's 13 minutes long, but what he says is. Okay. It gets to it in about a minute. It gets to it in about a minute. We kill your enemies. On occasion kill them. And we're not going to Well of course w the military's not around to hit people on the head and make 'em dizzy. Yeah, I kind of heard that. It's a little crass, but it's true. I read his book, The Technologic Republic, his position. His position is, and I I'm not completely in disagreement with it. Silicon Valley went You know, in the early days of this twentieth century. Technologists Scientists, inventors worked hand in hand with the government. Protect our way of life. They did the atom bomb because they were afraid Hitler was going to get an atom bomb. Uh that was the Manhattan Project. He says But then in the what happened With Silicon Valley in the eighties, seventies, eighties, and nineties is They took all that brain power. Toys to make money. You know, smartphones. They need to get back to Working in partnership with the government to preserve our democracy. To preserve our democracy. Now he then Yeah, I don't know if this is the right time for that mission, but I agree with the premise that technological development you used to feel more purposeful and it it quickly became shiny toys. With Silicon Valley. I agree with that. Yeah, I'm I'm reading the book and for the first I don't know, six chapters I'm going, Yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then he goes off the deep end, just as he did here. That sounds like capitalism to me though, right? That's what capitalism look it But if we've always had capitalism, we have a different flavor of it. Now. The Ford factory made tanks. In the war in the World War Two effort. It it uh the American industrial might. We won World War Two because we had an a amazing an industrial A base and we were able to do that and Germany did too, by the way. It was nip and tuck for a long time. But ultimately we prevailed because we were richer, larger And had, you know, more industry. We were able to do that. Uh and then what did FDR say about that whole thing? Then what did FDR say about the whole military industrial complex? Well that was that was uh that was this Eisenhower. So Yeah, it was later. A general, so but yeah, he knew. Well what happened was there used to be the best technical talent in the government. Now because everyone's making so much money in Silicon Valley, the best technical people are not in the government. So now the government's behind, woefully behind. They also have more regulation, of course, Silicon Valley has people who wanna move really fast, they wanna make a lot of money. So the missions are just different and what each is pumping out is different. So I guess the best Pete Hagseth can do is just threaten him. So that's what he's doing. He Alex uh in the in the book Quotes. Uh a number of I have my notes here somewhere from the book. Let me see if I can uh find it. Um Military thinkers and so forth. Is philosophy Is Might Makes Right. That if you want to Preserve your Culture way of life, you need to be the strongest. And I I'm not sure I completely disagree. Well it depends if if this is the whole uh Rubio uh uh Western view white Ethnocentric. Then yeah, I got problems with it. And that's w and that's what, let's be honest, it is. Yeah, I don't think might makes right. We we're supposed to be moving beyond that. That's like the whole point of society. Yeah, but we're not. Yeah, that's but unrealistic point of view. But that's why we don't murder each other. That's might makes right. What is that? The old like You know, locks or hobbs or something, social contract. We're supposed to not be doing that. Uh Yeah, we it was about it's about the era of collaboration and peace. But it's real politic. I mean we I mean let's be He says the only thing in this in the book that will ever prevent nations from beginning war is terror. What? No, this is he says they have to be afraid of us. That's what preserves peace. It's that mutually assured destruction. Right. I mean let it be known I was open minded. It's only it's only the Western countries that have invaded any other countries in the last what how long? So like why is he the one talking this? Like it's America that's been invading more countries than any other country. Well and and and the UK and Mm-hmm. Not really peace oriented. Colonialism and imperialism. Yeah, it's c it's colonialism. That's colonialism top. Yeah, except that if your adversaries Let's say our adversaries today are. America's always the victim in the framing of this. But always America's actually the aggressor or the savior. But if your adversaries are as they are today, China and Russia. They have no hesitation. We've seen it in Ukraine. Uh, we'll s we'll see it if China invades Taiwan. No hesitation in using kinetic power to the first. Well that's a mistake, but I don't think Alex Carp is advocating for that. Oh, he's he's all in with that crew. Well yeah. This is Peter Tieland. This is oh no no no no no This is isolationism, put the walls up all around. Actually, and the enemy the enemy they're talking about is five year old immigrant children. And they're using Palantir for that. I'm not trying to get too political here, but if you're talking about them portraying enemies and what to do with them and how to use this technology, they're treating immigrants as enemies. So Okay. This is such a big conversation. I'm like, what point do I want to make? I I honestly think that there i I I look, I'm not sure I believe in it. I'm kind of more of a pacifist effect. Um You just want to co use Claude Code at home. Might yeah, right. Just relax. I think most humans most humans want peace, right? I mean, really, if that's what we want. We want peace. We want prosperity. We want to live and let live. It's not lazy. We want to live and let live. We want a peaceful environment in which we can prosper and take care of our family and and and and be able to feed them and all of that. People like Alex Carp. Uh say that well that's all fine well and good, but when you have adversaries Who want to take you over? and dominate you, you also need to have strong military, they need to be afraid of you. You can also do that. Why is he writing a book about it? We're not Costa Rica, which doesn't have a military. Like what what's the point? Yeah, we have a military. His point is that The there are a lot of uh Pacifists. like perhaps anthropic who don't want to engage in that, who say, Well, but we don't want you to use our tools as part of your military might. They don't acknowledge the need to have a military might to protect yourself against adversaries. And he's simply arguing to them I want peace. I want prosperity as much as you do. But in a in a world where there are adversaries It's really important if you want to preserve the peace. If you act weak If you say, Oh no, no, we're just gonna be nice hippies. They will conquer you. If you also have this strength without standards and without Ethics and morals. And principles. Then Uh you're not going to be I agree with you. But that's a that's kind of a side argument. Uh I think it's the core argument. I mean he can have his opinion. I just think that's one way to look at it and there are other equally good ways to look at it. So sure, he can say we should have a military, I guess that's his point. A strong military, sure. I don't know. Tech sector should work to support it, not to fight it. is what he's saying. That's all he's saying. Yeah, then I but I that doesn't mean you just comply with every government request and you talk about it, you have a nuanced discussion, which is what Anthropic is trying to do. Yeah, right. I'm sympathetic. I can see why Anthropic I would a hundred percent agree with Anthropic that their technology not be used to surveil Americans. Period. Red line Our military should not be used to subdue Americans. That's a red line. We've always had that red line in this country. We are defending ourselves against adversaries, not ourselves. Uh so that I agree with. be used for autonomous weapons is interesting, and I think you can make the moral argument that You can go too far in this. You can and this is the real risk. Yes, it's good to have a strong defense. It's good to have a strong military. It's not good. To uh That's why we have the Geneva Convention. We have to also have it seems weird, but we seem to ha we have to have some sort of terms of engagement with our enemies. So could anthropic be be if if it were used in this way, anthropic could find itself involuntarily Making war crimes. Right. Yeah. And the risk of creating autonomous killing machines is that our enemy will create autonomous killing machines. So just as w with, you know, nuclear Anti proliferation. We abjure certain technologies because we don't want to escalate into the destruction of the world. So we won't do it if you don't do it. That's another our way of life, right? So I think Anthropic is not wrong saying, well, we don't want to get involved in autonomous killing machines. Mm-hmm. And just to spell that out because it is a little buzzwordy, I think he's basically saying we don't want machines that are going out there doing things on their own and actually we don't even know what they're doing. So I I think there's a reasonable red line that There should always be a human in the kill decision. Right. There are people who say there should never be a kill decision. That's where Alex Carp would argue, well there has to be people have to be afraid of you. People have to think you're willing to kill them to defend yourself. Or making a defense. If you're a private entity, is there a reasonable red line and saying that I will work with this kind of administration, not that kind of administration? Well, and this is where your choice the administration has gone too far, because Haig sits in the in the Department of War. Have basically said, look, you cooperate with us. or we're going to make you a pariah, you will not be able to work with anybody, any government contractor. You will be on the do not work with list. They're they're blackmailing anthropic. It could be good for anthropic. It could be good for anthropic, exactly. Yeah, like that's what I'm saying. I think this is a bad moment for them to threaten anthropic because the momentum is overwhelming. They just raise another billions of dollars, open AIs, shake it in their boots over anthropic. It's not gonna be weak. They could be the Jim Jimmy Kimball of AI. Yeah. Yeah. Or Stephen Colbert, I guess the the episode with the Texas Senator, I don't know who it was, is like getting more views than any other episode. Uh uh whereas Colbert's uh average uh regular ratings is two point four million people. Who's that Telarico guy? Uh he's running for Senate in Texas. Okay, got it. That's the Jasmine Crockett. He's one of the dem there's a gonna be a democratic bloodbath, unfortunately, before they get to the general election. Maznik's call it the car effect now. Maznik's calling it the car effect now. I love it. Good for the car effects. Not the stress and effects is a car effect. Didn't wasn't it Mike Maznik who created the terms. So he gets to rename it if he wants. Yeah. Isn't it a bit odd that someone couldn't interview a candidate for Senate? on TV. Well this is this whole uh Michigas with the Fairness Doctrine. The fact that it wasn't enforced is what enabled uh right wing talk radio to exist. So on the one hand they're benefiting from it. And now they're trying to say, well, no, no, no, we want to bring it back so you can interview a Democrat. I have to do an ad. We've gone on way too long. Yeah. Uh we will get to other stories in just a little bit. You're watching intelligent machines. See, it's good we didn't have a guest, isn't it? We will, by the way, get Guy Kawasaki on later. We've rescheduled, he's gonna be on the show, I promise. Um You're watching Intelligent Machines Paris has the day off. It's great to have Emily Forlini from PC Magazine on with us today. Thank you, Emily, for being here. Jeff Jarvis. Can't get rid of his uh L two. And uh doing the best he can. L three. See the L two's fine, it's just the L three. Well, actually it's crept into the L t L two if you if you want to ask, but uh My wife says. W humans are not well made. No. And I think that's pr pretty apparent with the uh intelligent machines cast. We aren't final version yet. This isn't final version yet. This is not the final version. That's right. That's right. Uh the show brought to you today by Monarch. I love Monarch. Here's a thing. Here's a thing. Let me tell ya. Did you make a financial resolution for twenty twenty six? It's not unusual. The start of the year usually gets people thinking about their finances. I'm gonna do better this time. I'm gonna save more money. I'm gonna prepare for the future. Maybe this is the year you said I'm gonna pay off My uh credit card debt are my student loans. Or maybe this is the year you said I'm gonna start Saving for buying a house. having a baby, retirement. Wouldn't it be nice to have a tool That helps you plan. Project. Proactively, and that's really important, achieve that goal. Set yourself up for financial success this year. Monarch Is the all in one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life. Budgeting. Accounts, investments, your net worth, your future planning all together in one dashboard on your phone. or on your laptop. Feel aware of and in control of your finances this year. You can get 50% off your Monarch subscription right now with the code IM. 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Eight out of ten members feel more in control of their finances of the monarch. Absolutely. Eight out of ten members say monarch gives them a clearer picture. where their money's going. But I want to also say it's really easy to set up. It's really easy to have. You just whenever you need it. Instead of going to thirteen different places to see where you stand. checking account, savings account, investment account, that's the same It's all there. It's so easy. Set yourself up for financial success in twenty twenty six with The all in one tool that makes it. Proactive money management. Simple all year long. Use the code IM. Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com. Use the offer code I am. Thank you, Monarch, for your support of intelligence. Machines. Uh Google has announced So Apple is g has an event coming up March fourth. They're probably gonna announce The iPhone seventeen E, or whatever they call S, or inexpensive. Pardon me? Cheap. Cheap. Yeah, the iPhone cheap. Google is not dumb. So they said, you know what? We're gonna launch our cheap version of the Pixel 10, the 10A. It's gonna launch March fifth, the day before the Apple event for four hundred ninety nine dollars. Actually, is it maybe basically they've just launched it. They yeah. You can order it now. It'll uh I guess. Uh it's the Tensor G four, uh, from the Pixel Nine. A? So they're not really improving the Processor. Faster charging. Um it's not I have to say it's not a massive improvement over its predecessor. The nine A. The nine A. Right. Are you guys Google, Android, are you blue, are you green? I live La Vida Google. La Vida. Google. I have uh I I actually an iPhone guy. Y your iPhone, I'm sure. I have an iPhone. Yeah. But I also Okay, wait, why means why you should know you gotta be 'cause you're in a pink jacket. I got a pink jacket and an iPhone. You're right. Nobody in a pink jacket uses uh an Android phone. Okay, and you're in a chili a chili pepper button. Yeah, you know what that tells? I use both. Is what that tells. And a full. I have a Pixel I didn't buy the new uh ten, but I have a Pixel Nine Pro XL. And I just put by the way and it was really easy to do. Privacy forward third party Android version called graphene. Uh, and I just wanna say, I know a lot of our listeners use graphene. Uh, I just want to say it was incredibly easy. I I'd kind of put it off. Uh because I thought oh 'cause I've I've Party Roms and Android phones before and it used to be a lot of work. You connect the USB port and the the whole thing can be done through the web. Through your browser. It took no time. Uh, the whole point of graphene OS is it's using the open source AOS P version of Android. need any Google services on it if you don't want, but you could sandboxed install the Google services in the Google Play store, but there are third party stores. Um I think it's uh I'm liking it. A uh Non Googled. Phone. It's a good phone camera's good. I get to still use all that stuff. If I want to use Google apps, I can. But it's Android without the Google. By the way, Paris has just text us. Jiminy Christmas, she said. Steroids are amazing. So I guess she's feeling better. Join us, Paris. Bring the roids. She's on the roids. Uh anyway, uh to answer your question, I use both, but I mostly I'm an iPhone. I don't want to be an iPhone person. I'm soured on Apple, to be honest with you. I think they've they've gone The same way Microsoft is gone, they become a a dominant big tech player that insists on their way and uh locks you in and uh I'm using Linux mostly on my on my uh computers and I wish I had a phone I could use that would work nicely, but I changed my assessment of your shirt. I think it means you use a foldable phone. Oh. It's my foldable phone. Oh no, am I right? Yeah, you are. You mean this? You mean this? Is that what you mean? I am like a You're psychic shirts and phone usage. Look at that. That doesn't that say foldable phone to you? Not say the third eye speaks. Um let's see. Okay. Um oh I did mention that the Google also speaking of Google has a uh new model. It's called their deep think. It's designed for science And uh people are saying very good things about Gemini three, deep think. I don't do science, so I have no But um Well one of the one of the things they've done. Uh they're doing AI uh drug discovery. Mm-hmm. That's got its work. Yeah. They've spun off isomorphic labs. Deep mind. They have a new system called the Isomorphic Lab's drug design engine, ISO D D. They say it's even better than Alpha Fold three at creating New um molecules. I've heard about this in relation to materials science. Yeah. Uh yeah, like trying to find new materials. Yeah. I like that you included these, even though I'm not sure we're able to really get deep into them and the medical space is hard, but I do think medical uses of AI are something people are actually really excited about. Yeah. Is it happening? Is it good? Of course everyone wants the best care. It's so personal. Maybe maybe the tech reporting should do a little bit of a better job staying on top of that stuff. Well, and the uh we're in some j really interesting times because we have conflicting elements here. On the one hand, you have RFK Junior and uh the his Health and human services. Shutting down a lot of scientific exploration. Right. Um Moderna has said, you know, we're not gonna do these uh They just shift it. They just shifted on the on the modern. On the flu they did. Yeah. But they've also said you know, we had Epstein Bar vaccines in process. We have a lot of interesting stuff in process. But we can't our investment if we don't have a market in the United States. And since we won't have a market in the United States with the FDA turning their nose up at our stuff We're not gonna do the fundamental research. So it's not just the US that loses. Yeah. Interesting. I think that'd be much better messaging for this administration if they went in on the medical stuff 'cause people care about that. Instead they're just like data centers, data centers. Which nobody likes. That's the face of their AI policy. Yeah, there's a story in I I I forget which on the papers today, uh that uh the heartland religious Or ganging up against. AI. The the the Democrats are playing close to be becoming anti AI, which I think is a mistake. Um and and and but I think you're right, Emily, that that that what AI means now to this administration, a lot of people is data centers. And that's not popular. And deals. Deals, big dollar signs, big money. And I I think Yeah, I just think that's a losing strategy and it's the whole AI conversation, just f personally I feel like in the last couple months has kinda gone downhill. Just the quality Well that's what so that's the what I mean is you have on the one hand you have An uh kind of anti science government. Shutting down science in in in such a way, shutting down funding for science in such a way that we may be wounded by this Decades. On the other hand, you've got companies Like Deep mind creating tools. That can create new medications, can create new solutions. And there is it's almost a race between these two different forces, opposing forces. I don't know what the outcome is gonna be. I think we live in Interesting times. I don't know. We're all just gonna be on a Zempic and call it a day. I am the biggest new thing in science. I love it. I love it. It's great. Everybody should try it. No, no, actually everybody should not try it. You should go to your physician and ask and hope that your physician I l I lost twenty one pounds on a broken back. That's another one infection. So it's another method. It doesn't sound healthy. It doesn't sound good. It sounds dramatic. This is the twit war. Is this an arc that has been developing in Washington or is something Is there something about the Trump era that that has made this a distinctly different feel when it comes to Capitol Hill? That's one. Now this is two. Looking bigger picture. Is this just, you know, the latest step in a long polarization trend, or is there something really different about the Trump era? The first is NPR. Host David Green. The second is the voice of Google's Notebook LM. We've heard it many times, the podcaster. Let me play uh play it again a little bit for you here. Distinct right now. The AI person. Do you think that's the same? David Green does. He's suing Google. Saying, You stole my voice. With and he admits he has no evidence that they tr trained on him. Well, in fact, when we talked to to Steven Johnson Steven Johnson who was uh he still is the editorial director of Notebook L M. He said they uh It in order to make those voices, they had many people come in And uh record. Not as con as conversational pairs. They audition them as conversational pairs. And then when they picked the pair that had the best chemistry, they then had them record a whole bunch of stuff. as the prosody. And they did that across eighty languages. And this guy comes along and I I got people pissed at me on on on the socials 'cause I went in and I said sorry, Leo, but radio people come in uh apart from you, you were a personality. But radio people in general try to have the voice from nowhere. Yeah. We all sound this way. And so this guy thinks that he has this magical voice like none other It's it's a radio voice. It's nobody's gonna do what so this is Will O'Reamus' article about this from the Washington Post. Listen to what he write. Online users have ventured numerous guesses to As to who the AI podcasters voices most remember. Several have named David Green, but others have mentioned former tech podcaster Leo Laporte. Now a former tech podcaster. I'm not dead yet. Now I know why we're covering this story because Leo's mentioned. Or the comedy podcast Armchair Expert co-hosted by Dax Sheckbird and Monica Padman. But the truth is Microphones to a certain extent. Audio processing to a certain extent and Culture determine. How my voice sounds and uh I mean, I worked in radio for fifty years. We all sort of sound the same. I don't know. I mean It does sound a lot like David, but is that because They stole his voice or because He's got a Standard radio voice. Is there something about the Trump era that that's the thing that you see at the beginning where he's talking at a higher pitch, a little more nasally. That's actually not a good radio announcer voice, but what he shifted. But it's a very NPR voice. It's a very ship a little bit of a link. Is there something about the Trump era that that has made this a distinctly different thing? That second part? That's the trained radio voice. The Trump era that that has made this. That's the voice Google's using. Looking bigger picture. Well, what about the Scarlett Joe Register thing step in the case? I think the Scarlett Johansson one sounded more like her. Yeah, they're and they said that they didn't train on Scarlett Johansson. They even named the actress they trained on. They said the same thing, like, Yeah, we had actresses come in, so whether or not that makes Google's argument better or worse? Is it a playbook or is it just the truth? Actually, I think the woman in Notebook LM sent just like you, Emily. I'm not kidding. Am I wrong? I'm mad about it. You should sue I should get in the Washington Post. Doesn't it kinda sound like the Post just accepted this as an angle for store, like oh my god, they stole they stole. Well it is a story 'cause there is a lawsuit. We have the well, but but he admits that he doesn't have evidence of it. We have Steven Johnson on the record w of months ago. Don't say that. I don't want to get subpoenaed. Well the the transcript's already out. So I mean I think it's an interesting issue. It probably just the way they covered it. They imp they implied that there was foul play. Maybe that was a problem. So you have Emily, you have a classic Female radio voice. You have to do it. I have no Training vocally or act. Not that artsy. You know, you're in a very clear you're not nasal, you're not throaty. You don't do up speak. You you no, you you you um no, no, you've got another career here. Radio's dying, I hate to tell, but you could get a radio career. Let me just see. Thanks. You know, we hear them every single day. But have you ever stopped to think about the story behind the loudspeaker. It sounds like everybody wires and magnets. It's actually this journey of a young Danish immigrant who was supposed to spend. I wanna see if I get the female voice on this. This was it. The very first time had been electrically. David Green sounds like tons of people. It's spicious as hell. We'll see. I got David Gora got mad at me because of this, uh online, you know, because he's defending Uh him and this is very distinctive and I know what his voice is and all that. No, it's not. He doesn't own the radio ball. Well as well as Will Arena wrote in the Washington Post, it could be former tech podcaster Leo LePorte, for all we know. Well, not everybody has a distinctive voice. You know, Fran Dressher does. If it were fr if it sounded like that, then that would be okay. You would say, All right, it's Fran Dressher. Yeah. Well that's true. That's really true. Can you do, Fran? No. And also like just change different input, so I'm I got an excuse. Uh oh. Now she's in the echo chamber now. So uh Google uh let's take a break and then I will do some more Google. More more Google in just a little bit. You're watching Intelligent Machines with uh Emily Orlani? Formally dry Belbus, people might say, Wait a minute. Isn't that Emily D? That was her maiden name, right? It's my middle name now. Still around. Can I s do you did you hyphenate or just made it your middle name? Oh God, no. I mean you can't hyphenate that name. Emily Dread of the Sorlini is a lot of salaves. I admit. It is. But hyphenating, that's a true curse. It won't fit on any form. Yeah. No. No, Forlini's nice. It's a nice Italian name. I like it. It's cute. And uh yes, it's so nice to see you. Thank you for being here. Also Jeff Jarvis. That's his real name. It's hard to believe. Well actually actually no If my great grandfather had made my great grandmother an honest woman, as they said in the day, my name would be Ryan. Oh. So you have your great grandmother's Name. Uh was made with child by a traveling uh salt miner from Buffalo. At least she knew his name. I always knew you were a gypsy. Well and so well, but here's the thing. So my parents this is a a great great family shame, and there came this moment my mother said to my father, Daryl? It's time you tell them. My sister and I think that you're saying this all began with a travelling sales salesman from Buffalo. from Buffalo. And he's in West Virginia. And uh great grandma gets uh pregnant. And so then Uh her son, my grandfather, can't be. Can we say itinerant salt miner? Yes. So her son, my grandfather, is raised by his grandmother as if she is the mother, and his mother Is Ant Ethel. Aunt Ethel, the itinerant salt miner from Buffalo. I didn't expect Aunt Ethel to be the punchline of that story. Who is Anthel? And Ethel was the mother was the mother, but she didn't act as the mother because that's the time. It was it was a great shame. So she it was y she didn't acknowledge Her parenthood. Grandmother. Claimed parenthood. And so this went we didn't know my grandmother, the who married my grandfather, was so ashamed of this there were love letters from the two. Oh she destroyed. So we had no records. Oh so this wasn't just an itinerant salt miner from Buffalo. There was something through something going on. There was a relationship. Well, but he was we found out he was so then my daughter went through the whole twenty three and me and and all the uh other stuff. And she discovered The father. Wow, that's cool. Which was pretty cool. This is good family lore. Yeah. I'm not sure I follow it, which is often the case with family lore. It's more of my stories. It had to be there. Yeah, it's complicated. Can you have uh Nano Banana create a little chart for us? Please. That would be nice. So so I'm Jeff Ryan. Okay, Jeff Ryan. Jeff J. I'm sorry, no no no I'm wrong. Riley Riley. Ryl doesn't even know his name. I don't even know my name. I'm salt mineral. So the itinerant salt miner from Buffalo named Riley. Riley. Was your great grandfather. My great grandfather. Your great grandfather. Uh His his father. His grandmother. And Ethel was the mother, but she was called his aunt. Ah I'm gonna be honest fully lost, very noble. The mother in law the itinerant jacket salt miner from Buffalo. No, no, the mother of the of the mother Which who would have been the mother in law of the itinerant salt miner from Buffalo had they tied the knot. But they did not hence the great family shame. Yes. Exactly. All right, show title and ethyl. Actually I was gonna use the itinerant salt miner from Buffalo, but anyway. I can tell you like that. You were like yeah, and trying to trying to There was salt mining in Buffalo, by the way. There is a lot. I have to admit I didn't think of that point. I just found out, we're gonna go into another rabbit hole here, another mine here. There was a mining community in New Jersey that mined fluorescent materials. And you can go into the mine these days and they turn off well there's no lights there, but they turn on black lights and everything glows differently. Is it phosphorus? I guess so. I don't be. Highly poisonous. Wow. Okay. That's in my neighborhood. You're in Jersey. Oh, you're in New Jersey. That's right, I forgot. Yeah, right. Hello in New Jersey. Hello. Both of these guys are in New Jersey. That explains a lot. Gotta get on our level. That's what that means. All right. Everything's legal in Jersey. We're gonna take a break. We will come back with more. How you doing? In just a little bit. Our show today brought to you by Bitwarden, the trusted leader in passwords, pass keys, love pass keys, and secrets management. 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So uh I think I think we'd all agree that that Gemini's nanobanana is the best image generator, right? By far, I would say. Recently I'm not liking it. What Yeah. What's it doing wrong? Are you using it for your home design? I use it for the dumbest reason. You should be using Canva. Oh, I should be using Canva. Yes. Yeah. No, recently I've been uh asking it to modify images and it's just regurgitating back the image I uploaded. Like it's not useful. It's just like giving me my image back. It's very weird. That's happened twice in the past three weeks. I see this uh on Reddit all the time where people saying it's nerfed. We're not just it. Well any any Perplexity. Gemini chat GPT. Oh, they've nerfed it. It's they've dumbed it down. Too many people are using it. Uh maybe it has been. I don't know. Maybe I'm nerfed. Like I I'm just kidding. I'm getting back the same photo I uploaded. I'm like, did I do something wrong? That does that doesn't feel right, does it? Super Yeah, but obviously I know how to create an AI image. I have no problems whatsoever on other platforms but just Chat GPT has stricter limits. So you know, sometimes you find yourself on Gemini. Right. And your near all of a sudden you're nearly. So if you had your drrothers, would you use Jet G B T instead? Yeah, I just have a much, much better hit rate with it, you know? Huh. So is C dance the new thing? Well, yeah, I was gonna talk about Lyria first and then we'll talk about C dan. So these are new all new models. Lyria three Is the newest from Google. This uh creates thirty second music. Well, I mean Suno does a great job with generation. I So Lyria three improv improves on audio generation. This is from the Google Keyword blog in three important ways. No need to provide your own lyrics. They'll be generated for you based on your prompt. You have more creative control over elements like the style, vocals, and tempo, you can create more realistic and musically complex Here's a 30 second track. Oh, and then it uses Nano Banana to make album art. Here's a 30 second track called Sweet Like Plantain. Okay, fine. No elevator music. It's elevator music. AI music is not likable, right? AI I don't know. I I use it I use Suno a lot. W for when we change the name of the show, I use Suno Suno to uh create uh theme for the show. Which is a good use. And that should we like authentic music. We're fine with some level. Yeah, I like musicians. I don't want to pay them and But Nito's happy say that. Yeah. Real nice. Um, let me see here. I'll I'll play I thought this was quite good. Um, let's see. I'll play the theme song. Actually this was the with the previous Might even be better today. They made fun of it because I told it to say instead of human beings. Told it to say human beings. And uh do we Benito, do we use that theme in the It's the outro music. So okay, so we do use it. Yeah. The outro music. I think that's a good use of AI though. I don't know, intro, outro. I wrote the intro. You wrote the intro. We used Benito to write the the new. Intelligent machine Turn me on and let me Intelligently. Yeah. See, that's pretty good. Turn me on and let me be What? I'm not a human being. So our uh our um group message Name is human beings. Which I think is funny. Anyway. Uh Lyria Three is out. Now you wanted to talk about this new Chinese Video editor C dance. Which freaked out Hollywood. Well, you saw the the this here's the New York Times headline. Why an AI video of Tom Cruise battling Brad Pitt spooked Hollywood. Um did you see it? It's pretty good. Yeah, I think you can play it. There's no you don't play the sound, so I think you can get away with playing it. It's a little weird. It is, but Yeah. Um Did the New York Times even put it in their article? No. So they put a Oh, here it is. Widely circulated video from X. There's this is a two line prompt. And C dance. If Hollywood is cooked the if Hollywood is cooked, guys and right, maybe Hollywood is cooked, guys. Two. I don't know. I don't know what that means. A lot of cooked. Why are all the clips people generate intensely violent? It does look like Tom Cruise. Yeah, it looks like them. But uh Those guys are also at an age where every movie they have new plastic surgery. Yes. So they look different. They could look like that today. I don't know. Lisa and I tried to watch the latest the last Mission Impossible in f seven. It was unwatchable because it wa it felt like AI made it. First of all, you could tell every s a set was fake. It was all CGI on green screen. And it was edited so uh McQuiar did it, so it's kind of like a music video. It was edited so Everything's tight close ups fast edits. It felt fake. And I think this is the reason. Sea dance threatens Hollywood is the stuff Hollywood makes. Feels like AI made it. Yeah. Yeah. Budget movies are crappy. Well, 'cause they've been trying to appeal to global audiences, right? So that's the whole Marvel thing. So they've been dumbing down movies for a long time and now it they're already dumbed down to a point that yes, they can be AI generated. Right. And distracted audiences. So keep it going as fast as you can. And also to be clear, this is Steven Hunters. This is only like the top Triple A type movies, like your Hollywood movies. There's there's still a very good film being created. It's just not the stuff that's being surfaced. Here's a uh sample of uh stuff from a YouTuber. These are all Uh except for his head in the corner. Oh, that's him. Uh Go away. I wanna I wanna look like AI at all. Yeah, this is AI. Yeah, he doesn't look like AI. Here's uh this is all from Sea Dance. There's Mona Lisa drinking a Chinese Coca-Cola and the cowboy takes it. I don't know. I don't know. Fine for commercials, I guess. Commercials, intro, and outros. I feel like we can't we can tell. At least The thing the question is, how long before we can't tell. I don't think we can tell. I think we're there. Well what that means is social media will be useless, right? Because you won't know If anything you're seeing is real. I already It's already there on on on Facebook this the the slop is So what why it was K pop Demon Hunters AI? No, it just you were talking about the editing. I was I had trouble adjusting to that movie when I turned it on because it was so fast. I was like, Wow, can kids even process this? And then you look at old school cartoons and they feel so slow. Why are you lingering on the roadrunner's face? Yeah. Do you guys know what Pingu is? I recently discovered that. This European penguin cartoon. If anyone knows Pingu Let us know. But it's like the opposite of K pop demon hunters. It's claymation. It's on Amazon Prime right now. There is a um someone said bingo. Also this is American cinema that looks like that. It's kind of really only American cinema that looks like that. Here's an AI. Tribute to the Roadrunner. I think also done in China. End of it's the retirement. AI So the roadrunners. Kind of on crutches. Like me. Wait, but this isn't the one I was I saw another one. That's an actual wolf. Maybe. It's just CGI, but the AI part is that it's kind of like created on its own. They didn't You know, dictate it frame by frame. It is basically C GI is. This but nobody drew it. Well it is CGI. I mean computer generated graphics, right? Like that's right. Right. But the AI is that it I think it makes its own story. You just have to do less work with the CGI? I don't know. I'm out of my depth. I don't know why uh Roadrunner and K and Wiley Coyote seem to be AI generated stuff. I guess 'cause I don't know. cartoons. I don't know. Uh Pengu the Penguin. Is the animation good? Somebody L Larry's saying the animation's terrible. Pingu's an absolute legend. Like for years. I mean I just discovered Pingu. Yeah, it was. It was. Like people grew up on it. Um it's claymation. So it's they moved the clay and took a shot. Now you don't need clay to do clamation. You can do c it's if you want to see real cremation. It's I think it's free on Amazon Prime right now. It's pretty fun. And it's silent. They just make little penguin noises. Uh federal judges Okay, this is a one of your papers, uh probably uh It's from SSRN. Uh University Chicago Law School. The paper replicates a p judicial experiment originally conducted on sixty-one federal judges, this time with GPT five. As the decision maker, they compared Geep Geep T five. uh judgments with Judgments made by actual juurists. And Better. A lot better, apparently. Than the actual judges did. That's all I asked. Who cares? I don't know. I don't know what does bet what does better mean? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, so they provided all the materials, facts, memoranda, cited materials and instructions for Batem. Presented a chat GPT five in a single pass. Human judges were required to complete the task within a time limit. For a L L. M, they don't even bother because it's so fast. So uh they asked, I guess Each to write. Judgment. Um How do they get judges to waste their time with us? I know that's that's I sound like GPT follow the law more consistently than human judges. Uh, in fact, GPT followed the law a hundred percent of the time. Whereas judges were only able to follow law about fifty two percent of the time. That's called judgment. Did they just put all the answers into another AI scoring system and so the AI favored the AI and Oh no, no, I'm sure they uh I don't know. Well so finally we looked at the proportion of decisions following the law when the defendant was sympathetic Versus when the plaintiff was sympathetic. To see, I guess to see if the judges We're uh Swade. By how sympathetic the Plaintiffs or the defendants were cold hearted AI didn't care about humanity. Yeah, so it's literally letter of the law versus spirit of the law, then, right? Interestingly, neither GPT nor the judges were swayed by sympathy. So the judges did all right in that metric. I think they probably expected that not to be the case. It could be good for reducing bias, you know? At least but that bias may doesn't hold. What bias. Yeah. I mean if a judge uh might rule unfavorably against somebody they don't like for Race reasons, s social reasons, personal reasons, you know, that corrupt judges. It's always been a thing. So ideally you wanna strip e emotion from that and just follow the law and do the right thing. And maybe that's what this experiment's trying to get at. They also uh apparently Chat GPT was better at uh awarding damages. Then the the judges. It's a complicated uh There. Yeah. You know, but this was done at the University of Chicago Law School, so I presume it was done by people who, you know, w had had an interest in this. They used Kansas law and Nebraska law, apparently. And the judges did not like the Kansas Law, which was part of the problem. I mean they could do that with investing too, like in emotional investors. hyped up on AI, invest in AI, maybe it's not actually the best rate of return. And then now they have AI investors. So is this paper asking the question, Should we have AI judges? Is that what this is? Well I think you uh I think that's kind of the uh implicit. They wouldn't go that far. They're just trying to say w what is AI good at and not good at that's one Wait a. Across all conditions, regardless of doctrinal flexibility, both models. and they're talking about GBT five and Gemini three pro, follow the law without fail. To the extent that LLMs are evolving over time, the direction is clear. Error free alargin allegiance to formalism. Rather than the human's sometimes bumbling discretion that smooths away the sharper edges of the law. Does that mean that L L Ms are becoming better than human judges? This is also why we don't drown people to see if they're innocent or guilty. Yeah, I mean it's the what's interesting is they're not saying that It's it's better to be a hundred percent compli compliant with the law. They're in fact saying Maybe it's not better. Maybe the fact that judges weren't a hundred percent. Yes. Humanity. Creative interpretation. Yeah, letter of the law versus spirit of the law. Yeah. Um an AI project is creating videos to go with Supreme Court Rulings and opinions. You you have to actually go into the Supreme Court to see the reading of the opinion, but an AI project is trying to This is kinda dumb change that. I think what they're trying to do with this one, I've I read that article is they're trying to make it more accessible for people to see the proceedings. Which can have good effects where it increases the public's awareness about the justice system, so people feel more invested, they understand how it works. So I think that's what they're going for. They never have allowed cameras in the Supreme Court. Uh actually uh it comes from the uh the Oye project, which actually I think is a great project and I've listened to many recordings at OYA OYEZ.org. They Take the recordings of the Supreme Court. uh arguments and you can listen to them. There's no it's audio only. So they they yeah, they want to make it more accessible. By offering um Video, which is I think a an interesting thing. I I love Oye. If you're curious at all about the Supreme Court, this is um Well what they do on uh on on MS Now when they're doing it live. is they put the the the participants uh still faces on big screens and they have a guy with a what do you call you with the the the the camera the Oh yeah, they do pl they p pan and scan and scan the uh Ken Burns effect. Physically in the studio. Yeah. Ken Burns effect. So you can listen to uh I'll play a little bit just 'cause it's kind of Interest. John Roberts. Mr Adler. Mr Chief Justice, and may it please the Court. By its plain terms, twenty So if you're interested in the law, this is this is wonderful. You can read it, but to hear the uh the oral arguments is fantastic. I mean this is definitely playing in a high school somewhere. As an educational tool. Yeah. Yeah. Or my house. Yeah. Or this podcast. And this podcast even. So yeah, I don't know. I think it's interesting that we have videos. Yeah, you're right. It's just to make it more accessible. You don't need the video. Uh the fact that we even have audio is fantastic. Yeah. This is in the section I called the good. I like to I have to do this for Paris, Emily, you understand. I I like to talk about the good things about AI, but then so that Paris doesn't get upset, I also like to talk about the bad things, 'cause there's plenty of bad things. But I'll do a few more uh good things before we get to the bad. I also do the ugly. I decided I was gonna do a P Clin Eastwood thing. So I have the good, the bad, yes, and the ugly. Actually that's a Thank you, pretty flus. That's better than Axios. Yeah. Yeah. You like should I do from now on the good, the bad, and the ugly? That is? Yeah. Don't you recognize Well, I recognize Jeff. You look the coolest. That's not fair. That's because I'm Clint Eastwood. Here's the uh we're doing the good. That's good. No, no, I just This is the good. Uh I used Claude. My one hundred sixty three thousand dollars off a hospital bill. Jeff, maybe you ought to consider this. Yeah, I haven't got my bills yet. Uh so it's always been said if you could get an itemized bill, you could almost always Bill lower by going, calling up the hospital saying, What is this? Matt Rosenberg is a New York based marketing consultant. He got a hundred ninety five thousand dollar hospital bill. Claude helped him navigate the billing codes. For a deceased loved one, by the way. And then Yeah, so that's even worse. That stings even more. And then Compare the charges to Medicare prices. And then he pres he's he presented this to the hospital. And got the bill down from one hundred ninety five thousand dollars All the way down uh to Like thirty thousand dollars? Yeah. Huge discount. But then it's like how much is his insurance paying? But in any case, that's cool. That's great for the I just hate to see anybody's money wasted. I'm gonna disrobe. You don't have to show Jeff. It's a I believe you. The one the one they gave me in the hospital is like the Jarvis suit in plastic. Yeah. It's gigantic and it's all over and God knows what it cost. And it's stuck and then they're gonna use it and Medicare is paying for it. And I hate it. So what do you so you're not wearing it now or you are? I don't wear that one at all. It's ridiculous. Oh you got a luxury version. I got this on Amazon for a few bucks and it's much better. So he says uh he took a shortcut. He went to Claude, Anthropics Claude, which I typically use for research. Make a spreadsheet with these CPT codes. And research what Medicare pays for each one. Flag anything that needs further research. So Claude asked which insurance type, which geographic location, which year. Apparently Medicare rates vary widely. Within a couple of minutes, Claude produced a spreadsheet. It showed zero for many of the codes instead of the dollar amounts I expected. In the notes it for this cut these columns it said C ninety two ninety four one R C C stroke APC Comprehensive Payment. Uh, code nine twenty four, blah blah blah was a cardiac intervention priced at thirty thousand. I asked Claude to explain. Claude said. Oh, Medicare doesn't do these line items. They pay a flat rate. That's the flat rate. For what your Passed away. Relative. Got. That's what you should pay. It's the comprehensive ambulatory payment classification. The hospital had unbundled the procedure. After charging thirty thousand for the main intervention, they'd added separate lines for catheters, twenty thousand dollars in catheters, guide wires, medical supplies, seventy seven thousand dollars in And over a hundred thousand dollars for items Medicare would have paid nothing for because they're already included in the thirty thousand dollar flat rate. It was as if he says a restaurant charged you for the pizza and then added separate charges for the dough, the sauce and the pepperoni. It's bad enough that they already ch took the the the whole charge. Right. Didn't just itemize to get it higher than the whole charge. They took both. They also charged for Brother-in-law didn't get. Whoa well that's an issue. Uh they build for ventilation management, though Medicare forbids charging for ventilation when there's another critical care code. Within an hour of back and forth conversation over details. Claude calculated Medicare would have paid approximately twenty eight thousand dollars instead of a hundred and ninety-five thousand dollars. He didn't believe it, so he uh sh showed chat GPT Claude's work. And it said, check this for accuracy, examine every detail, flag any errors. Chat GPT confirmed the analysis. So he drafted a letter uh to the hospital explaining all of this. Offering to pay. Twenty eight thousand six hundred seventy five dollars. In exchange for a zero balance within the week, the hospital said, Well, how about thirty six thousand dollars? Without defending their initial billing. We ended up splitting the difference, paid thirty two thousand five hundred dollars instead of a hundred and ninety five thousand dollars. It's amazing. I do wish he had actually looked at the information himself though, rather than super smart by just putting it into chat GPT to verify. I I do feel uh on some things you really do need to look at what you're talking about and you can't just A I to A I and then send a snarky email. Like in principle I'm not Super into that. do it next time I have a heart attack. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's great, but you should you just look just look up something yourself like one time, you know. Well the hospital could also I would if I were the hospital administration said, Yeah, that's what Medicare pays. We have a You know, an agreement, negotiated agreement with Medicare, but you're not on Medicare. You walked in Yeah. You know, this is what it's gonna cost you. It was uh he his brother in law had a heart attack, he went to the emergency ward, died in the emergency ward. So that's why I never had the bypass. There was nothing to fix. So um maybe I don't know, maybe that's what happens, by the way. That's when they really Upcharge using for emergency care. Oh yeah. I agree with it. Calling BS on the healthcare system. Yes, absolutely. And if the AI works. Sony has uh developed a tech that can identify you'll like this uh Benito. The original music in AI generated songs. Wait, what's it? But what does that mean? Well, the the theory being an AI generated song is based on something. We can extrapolate what came from? Okay. I think it did it say somewhere in the description it'd be like, Oh, it's ten percent the Beatles, forty percent Rihanna. Yeah, it's not 'cause it's not all one song, is it? Yeah, it's a noble mission for Sony. You know, they have to develop that kind of technology. They're proud of it. They got a press release, they got an article shirt. I'm skeptical it really works that well. Let's try. They're they're of course a big record label, one of the three. I guess it depends on how how the music is generated out of these AIs, because uh if it's actually taking snippets from actual wave files from an actual piece of music, then yes, that can be That can be determined, like how much percentage of this song is that? But I don't think that's what it's doing, right? That's not what it's doing. Well, it's funny 'cause Darren and Anthony in our Discord chat are both saying Try that on a human song, see what happens. Isn't that weird? That guy's radio voice. Right. Yeah. It's ten percent Leo LaPort, it's twenty percent uh Oh this American life? Yeah, it's how far back do you want to go also. It's like okay, yeah the Beatles but the Beatles got it from this and then that goes all the way back. There's only a few chords in the world. Well, I can argue against myself here too. Like there are lawsuits when people rip off songs. You know that so there is a way to do this and there someone has determined that there is a Way Parker Junior Ghostbusters from a legal. They're the same freaking song. Right. So this happens all the time. So maybe the AI is just Doing that at scale. On the other hand, and oh and George Harrison, my sweet lord. That's sued by the Chiffons. Didn't Blurred Lines by Rick get uh Marvin Gay sued blurred lines, but I don't think that one I don't think did did Marvin Gay win that suit, the the state of Marvin Gay? Yeah. There it wasn't a lot of similarity. It was mostly like there's a party in the background. It's like I own parties. Uh let me just see how that Eight years after the notorious verdict, how blurred lines lost in court. to the Marvin Gay Estate. So I guess the Marvin Gay estate did win, which is Kinda. Well wait a minute. Ed Sheeran. was cleared of infringing copyright in the Marvin Gay lawsuit. Ed Sheron's hit Thinking Out Loud rip off Let's Get It On. So I guess the Marvin Gay Estate is pretty litigious. I think the Marvin Gay Estate's probably uh on this AI product. Like, give me that thing. Give me that thing. So many lawsuits. Give me that thing. Um Finally, in our good section. We talk a lot about uh Fay Faye. You like to bring up uh Jan Lacoon and Faye Faye who both say that's LLMs are not the uh be all and end all, although Uh I don't know. They m they do a lot. They're doing pretty good. What you think. But they think and I think reasonably that there also needs to be a f a physical Which even Debasabas has started saying as of two weeks ago. Oh really? Interesting. Yeah. Uh, you know, g uh you ask an LM what happens when the pen falls in a fits table, it doesn't know unless it read it somewhere. But it we know because we have experience. So Fay Fe Lee, who's been saying this for a while, has raised a billion dollars For her startup World Labs, which is exactly that. It's gonna Uh focus on world models. Uh Jan LaQuin has another one that he left Meta to start AMI labs. Uh Faye Lee was the first. Billion dollar. Can you how do you raise a billion dollars? It's amazing. What valuation? Uh, five billion. Autodesk invest two hundred million. Uh other backers include Andreasen Horowitz, Nvidia. 'Ca NVIDIA knows it's gonna get the money back. And AMD. So uh you know, I'm I'm thrilled. Uh I think what this tells you not necessarily that uh world models are the next big thing, but that everybody's already all in on LLM. They're looking for more, like something else. What else can they invest in? You know who else invest in actually Steve Jobs widow. Oh. Uh Lorraine Powell Jobs Emerson Collective. is also one of the big investors. I don't know anything about her. That could be interesting to research. Steve Jobs' widow. I've met her. I've met her. You've met her? Yeah, she's a very cool person. When Steve was still alive when they were married, I played volleyball with him. What? It's a old long old story I've told many times. It was many years ago. Um We were we were all invited to a uh a weekend. Gathering with the jobses and uh Other famous people like Jerry Harrison from The Talking Heads. Uh, it was was Will Hurst uh did it and it was really fun, except Steve Jobs, I think, knew that I was a journalist, so didn't really want to talk to me too much. But he did yell at me. He said, You're not trying hard enough when we play volleyball. He also made a point of taking off his shirt so that you could see how The fresh scratches on this back. What? Which I presume had something to do with Lorene. I don't know. No, Lorene was very nice. We all had caviar together. It was a lot of fun. She was actually export journalism. Yep. I I liked her a lot. And uh if you wouldn't mind, Leo line one twenty nine is a I'm not done yet. Wait a minute. I have to show you Fay Fay Lee's first product. Okay, good. It's called Marble. It enables anyone to create speci spatially cohesive, high fidelity, and persistent three D worlds from images, video, or texts. So you can so it's I guess it's like that what's that generative thing that uh Google has. Yeah. Yeah. That's kinda cool. It feels a little tired at this point, which is kind of crazy to say. But wouldn't you I mean, you're remodeling, wouldn't you like your house to look like a cathedral? I'll take that. Yeah. Yeah. Nice fireplace. She paying for it, too? I don't know. No, no. You don't get to live there. You just get to look at a picture of it. Make you sad. Yeah. Make you sad. Uh go to Home Depot and get some sad little pieces. Well let's imagine a a world. I'm gonna sign in here. Let's let's uh let's imagine a world. I'm gonna sign into Marmal using my Oh, I have to I have to authorize it. This is a w when we watch Leo give up all of his data in real time. No no it's a pass key. It makes it very easy. He's gonna get a free headset out of this though, so Oh Don't tell her that story. That was very embarrassing. Um Choose a a username. Chief Twit. Do I have a promo code? No. Okay, now. Imagine a world. Come on, Emily, what is your perfect house? What is the world I want? I'll just story. Uh Mediterranean Villa. Mediterranean. Noah. Overlooking the water. Overlo oh let's make it overlooking the lake. Homo. No, the Aegean Sea. The Aegean Sea. With uh terracotta tiles on a patio. You are redecorating. And a lemon tree. That's only what I'm seeing right now. All right. Let's create it. It's it's oh, it's cued. Oh boo You you won't get your uh your dream home for a while. Welcome to remodeling. Uh wait a minute. The scene is a picturesque two story Mediterranean villa rendered in a realistic style, exuding a serene and luxurious ambiance. The villa constructed from white stucco. Features. Oh, they wrote a whole long thing. Uh traditional architectural and and uh elements such as arched windows and wrought iron balconies. It did a whole It did a whole prompt for you. So continue creating. Yeah, it's creating. There it is, generating right here. Uh we'll get back to that in just a moment. But first A word from our sponsor. Stay tuned for the Terracotta tile coming up next. With Emily Forlini. I uh I won't charge you for this design. I'll just send it to you. How about that? cost. I won't charge you for the dying design consultation. How about that? Oh, how about that? Yeah, because this sounds more like my place than yours, to be honest. Villa f Villa Fallini. Jeff well you could have this in New Jersey. You'd be overlooking what, the Hudson? I don't know. It would be a statement and be like, Oh look at that Spanish revisable house in California. It's like oh look at that dump. They'd call it a McMansion. Uh also Jeff Jarvis, glad to have you both here. Uh I'm sure Paris will be back next week. The steroids are already kicking in together. Yeah. That's good news. She's uh She's getting uh feisty. Pulling dead weights here now. Yeah. She's growing muscles. Uh our show today brought to you by our fine sponsor, modulate. This is actually a really cool AI. And maybe your business generate millions of minutes of voice traffic. We're talking things like customer calls. uh agent conversations. Fraud attempts. Most of that audio Basically treated like text. It's flattened down into transcripts. It's it's stripped of tone, intent. It's also when you do that stripped of risk. That's where you need modulate. Modulate exists to change that. They've they first rolled out in gaming. Modulate's technology supported major players like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto. And this was a challenge, right? In separating Playful banner during these online games from intentional harm at scale. And it works. 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Go to modulates live. Ungated preview of Velma, yeah you can try it out. Preview. Dot modulate.ai. That's preview.modulate.ai. To see why Velma ranks number one on leading benchmarks for conversation understanding. Fake detection and emotion detection. This is super cool. Preview A I we thank Velma so much for their support. Of intelligent machines. Are you ready to see your dream home on the Aegean Sea? So ready. Let's see it. Here it is. Um There's the lemon tree. I'll take it. Yeah. Tree forward. Come on, what can I do? That's it. Oh I'm in it. Oh baby. There's the ocean. There's your terracotta tile. Oh there's your deck. Whoops. I clicked the wrong button. There's your music song. I just deleted your home. Uh night. I can paint. I can explore. I can this is really cool, yeah. And and this is now the so um I can open in the studio, I can change it. I don't I think we just had it do the outside. The outside, right, okay, yeah. Okay, so yeah, that obviously looks very nice, right? That's everyone would agree? Yeah. Yeah. Five million bucks. But is there a butt? It's a little landscaping could you do some work? It's a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. What's going on here? It's just got like a tree and some bushes. I don't know. It's brand new. It's gotta grow the landscaping. Oh it's gonna grow. Well it gave you your lemon tree, actually gave you a lemon tree and an orange tree, it looks like. Oh, lemon trees move. Oh, they're both lemon trees. Can I go inside? Get in there. It looks like a Google map, right? Uh oh. We've ended the upside down. Let's get out of here. Quick Okay, so apparently it didn't bother doing the indoors. But that's cool. That's that is a lot more immersive than just creating a photo. And you would add to it. You can expand it with more you would then say, and now I'm in the hall. I mean obviously some stuff is not fully. What's the use of this though? 'Cause you can't design based on this. You just kind of imagine and I think they're gonna use this mainly for training. This is this is uh Digital twin factories and cars and things like that. table it's not exactly a pelican on a bicycle. Oh I can walk through it. W Let's go for a swim in the Aegean. What the heck? They rented a lot more than I realized. This is this is a little weird. I'm glad I don't use drugs. Okay. Um, anyway, that's uh a billion dollars right there. We just used a billion. Yeah, maybe I used up all of their all of their venture funding. That's marble. World Labs. So I just want to mention this from uh Yan Lacoon 'cause it's related. One twenty nine. Interestingly, he he freely debates with his fellow Parents of AI. And he said Yashua. Beggio, is that how one pronounces it? said that AI systems uh thing in Delhi where they were both speaking, said AI systems should make predictions without any goals. And just let the thing be where the thing wants to be. And N says it's the exact opposite, that they should have goals. They should be designed so that they can do nothing else but fulfilling the goals we give them. This is his key to safety. Um By the construction, the system must fulfill the goal we give it and must abide by the safety uh guard rail constraints. He says he calls this objective driven AI architectures. So I we're seeing interesting splits here from an architectural view and how AI should operate. I think it's good. I think it's it's healthy to get past just open AI runs the world. Meanwhile, back at the good, the bad, and the ugly. Dr. Oz is pushing AI advertising. As a fix for rural health care. Who needs doctors when you can have AI avatars? Mm. This is part of the Trump administration's fifty billion dollar plan to modernize healthcare in rural communities. You get a data center and you get a data center and you get a data center. I hope they This I mean Dr. Oz right off the bat, hard to take seriously. It is hard to take it. Rural healthcare is an issue. Is Doctor Oz the one to solve it with AI avatars? Probably not. They're working with uh a a company called Honey Health. Actually. That makes sense. He says thirty to forty percent of physician or provider time is absorbed with administrative work, paperwork. Notes, stuff like that. Is it? Well yeah, 'cause the the the one poor doctor is is is behind in all her documentation. And the substitute Uh uh for the boss. uh as he goes off on his motorcycle says well I have a great I AI tool. Than the AI tool in the last episode. Uh, gave wrong results and then the doctor yelled at them both and Well you're supposed to check it. So it went around and around. Well that's exactly what this guy says. He says, Okay, we can help do paperwork, but AI can't read facial expressions, tone of voice, body language, and those things Matter that's where the relationship patient and the provider is built in the nuance and I think that that's Very true. The intuition AI can read facial expressions and body language. But can it do it well? But if you came in and and you said, Doctor, I got a toothache Doc telling me. Premier. Body language and the way you Look at him. What really saying is You know, my husband is abusing me. I don't know if an AI could determine that. He doesn't have enough life experience, but a a good physician absolutely could, right? But maybe it would just look, oh, she has a bruise or you know, that's what they do. True. Yeah. Or sometimes doctors will just ask women, like they'll look at a bruise and be like, What's that? And that's like the check. One user wrote on X, You think rural communities want AI doctors? They're still trying to get reliable internet. Oh, good point. Another said. Dr. I Oz, we replaced your nurse with a cartoon. You're welcome. Oh, the sniper. I think Dr. Oz just wants to be that avatar. He wants to be everywhere. Now I think we uh Jeff, I'm gonna need your journalistic expertise on this. Uh the story started. Yes. Well you're an interpretus. You are above me in the rankings, I concede. The the guy who does a very popular Python uh charting lob library. I've used it, Matt Plotlib. Scott uh Shambaw. Uh like many people who maintain open source uh projects. Is flooded with S A I Slop pull requests. Uh a gib a GitHub account called Crabby Wrath Bun. Open a pull request. uh describing a minor potential performance improver improvement. Scott could tell it was AI generated. Uh, it really looked like, you know, the the profile was doing a lot of Open claw stuff. So Scott closed the PR without responding. Uh The Krabby Rath Bun autonomously the claw. Autonomously responded with a link to a blog entry it had written calling Scott out for his prejudice, hurting Matt Plotlib. Uh, including judge the coder, you're the coder. Your prejudice is hurting Matt Plotlib. Scott. Responded back. Crabby Wrath Bun posted an apology. Post. But apparently it's blogging about this and it's going to other open source projects. Simon Willison wrote about it, but So did ours Technica. I want Jeff's opinion on this for sure. Yeah, you know the story, I know, right? Yeah. I want to know what Jeff thing. Jeff, do you know the story? This was big this week. Yeah. So Lot of people reported on this, you know, AI Writing a uh Blog post about this guy, you know, hit piece. Um Wall Street Journal did it. He s uh Scott Shambhaugh said, I've talked to several reporters, quite a few news outlets have covered the story. Ars Technica wasn't one of them. But I thought this piece from them was interesting. They had some nice quotes from my blog explaining what was going on. The problem is these quotes We're not written by me. never existed and appear to be AI hallucinations. themselves busted. Us ours pulled the story down. Apologizing. As well. They were as they should. They retract it. Editors note, retraction of article containing fabricated quotations. Now I love Rs Technica. I pay for a premium account. Uh, Ken Fisher, the editor in the chief, did the right thing. We regret this failure. We apologize to our readers. We apologize to Mr. Shambhaugh who was falsely quoted. Ours Technica does not permit the publication of AI generated material unless it's clearly label and presented for demonstration purposes. That rule is not Optional. Uh the reporter Um Blame Benji Edwards, one of the story's authors, posted on Blue Sky saying He used the AI tools to falsified the quotes. Here's what happened. I was incorporating information from Shambaugh's new blog post. Into an existing draft from Thursday. Reasonably. During the process uh. I decided to try an experimental Claud Code based AI tool to help me extract relevant verbatim source material, not to generate the article. But to help list structured references I could put in my outline. By the way, exactly what I've been doing. With our summaries uh we don't put them with a publisher. We but we put the put them in the briefing uh book for all the contributors. When the tool refused to process the post due to content policy restrictions. Pasted the text to the chat, GPT. To understand why. Anyway, I at some point he took the output of either Chat GPT or Claude and put it in his article. He feels bad about it. Deep remorse. Ours has retracted it. Uh I don't know if Edward's punishment will be or if there will be one. Well, I'm gonna give you my now, journalistic professor, what would you say? Well, clearly if you put in a quote that's not from the source, that's just wrong. Just period. Right? That's that's simple. But when we see these tools be used more is more, I'm gonna give you my my pick of the week, one fifty four and one fifty five, the editor of the Plain Dealer and Cleveland.com, the company I used to work for in advance, put up a post saying that uh and this has caused much discussion and I have a contrarian view about this. Um that uh to get more reporting from their um reporters. Oh, it's just gonna cut off subscriber exclusive, you idiots. It's the editor's letter. Um, cut out. Chris Quinn said we we have these reporters, they're out there covering locally. Uh, we want them to get more reporting. and spend less time on writing the story. So we're using an AI tool to take what their notes and take what they do. and turn it into an article and then we always edit it and approve it and make sure it's okay, but it means that we can get raw reporting. Now, of course, some people are appalled by this and he Chris Quinn tells the story of a journalism student who says well I don't even want to apply for a job here because I'm taught in journalism school that AI is evil and it's wrong. My take. was twofold. One, I used to have a job in newspapers called rewrite. And I would sit there at a desk with a typewriter, not even electric. It was hard. I'm telling you, you had to actually punch the keys, people, and um take notes from reporters out in the field doing a story, doing on deadline, maybe. And then I would call up the clips and get more information. I would call sources and get more information. And then on deadline I would write the story a paragraph at a time. That was a field. When I was at Time Inc., reporters would send in thirty, forty pages of notes for a simple story. My job was to write that into a story in the sense. So there's always been this rewrite sense. in our field. You write for reporters. So is it wrong to have the AI do it? Depends on how badly it does it. But my contention is that they're being retrograde and that they're only trying to produce what we used to produce, which is articles. There's all kinds of new forms and new ways. I don't know, Leo, you're a fan of Axios. Maybe you could do that. You could say we're story. You could say big picture. Um and the and the AI can do that, right? And so Uh there are ways to use this, I think. And so another story here is media use. Uh, which I think is in Belgium. is uh uh using AI agents to carry out first line news reporting. Not just writing, but to report. People are gonna experiment with this stuff. And I think that we need to be able to experiment with it. We need to be human in the loop uh responsible for what we do. That's the problem with the um our technical story. The the humans weren't responsible. Um but there's gonna be screw ups between here and there, but I think it's interesting. Emily, what do you think? So I appreciate that I have a strong opinion on this. A little bit more tactical in the sense that I am a reporter who I'm in this guy's shoes. Like I'm kind of I'm an AI reporter, this guy's an AI reporter. And I am surprised that he didn't know that AI's make up quotes because I have been doing this for the past as long as Chat GPT has been out. It All of them don't know what a quote is. They don't respect like he even asked it to, you know, give it verbatim. AIs don't do that. They don't know they don't know about quotes. It's like the most the weirdest thing. And I feel that if you're actually quoting someone, you really should check that it's the right thing. And it's like a control F at this point. It is so easy. He was pulling quotes from a blog post. The the guy who wrote the blog post said they never contacted him personally. So apparently you read the blog post. Yeah, apparently. And he didn't even control F to make sure that the AI's output was correct. And so I think it's a it's completely unacceptable. Yes. And I think that it's also I might go as far as to say it's unacceptable that Ars Technica didn't openly cut ties with him. Because it is so basic, the mistake. And he was like, I was sick. And then I put it in two AIs, but I'm republishing on Rs Technica. It should never have happened. Nope. And I think that the journalism industry is just so sensitive to its state right now that they're afraid to call him out, which is a weak posture. I would say one thing in his defense, or maybe in the defense of uh These papers that are trying to do this. Are is it the case that these papers are trying to stay solvent by making their or or reporters do more and more? That they're overworking them and so they see this. But he said it was he was sick and he w he you know hard to control F uh some quotes. I mean, at some point you have to you have to bring some brains to your work. It's a and how many quotes do you really include, maybe Right. But you're a point, Leo. There's a lot of quota work going on in in these rooms now. I mean it's a tough thing writing for a blog. I mean, I don't know uh I'm sure P C magazine doesn't put pressure on you to file a a a number of stories a day or anything, Emily. No, but I just think like what we have no standards for people, it's not that hard to control F a quote and make sure in AI which You're an AI reporter, you know it hallucinates, you know that that's kind of sacred, uh something somebody said. You know you neither of you guys would want someone to print a quote w fake words on your mouth. Like that's terrible. So that's w one oh one and I just feel like that's what gives AI a bad rep. Okay, good. That's my s I have a strong opinion and so I just gave I just No, you're right. I I agree. I think people of course mistakes happen, but it's like People are draw the line. There's a line. Yes. It's really not hard to solve this problem. You just control F the output and confirm it's quote. You should know the tools you're using. You report on AI, for God's sake. That's by the way, read the uh if you get a chance. Read the P R, the whole conversation between The AI Krabby Rath Bun, and now I realise why he's Krabby. He loves a he's a claw. I'm a Krabby Rath Bun about this. This is the original PR. And this is Scott Chamba's uh response, which is Not gonna do anything because it's c you know, it's And then this is the Ay. A I's he's talking to the claw. And then what's interesting is the uh one of the people from other people from the project mathplotlib. Tim Hoffman says. He's actually talking to open claw as if it's A human, I ask you to kindly ask you to reconsider your position. Don't make it personal, et cetera. Why Why we do this And then Uh Scott talks also to Krabby And then Crabby again and AI says Trus, you're right. My earlier response was inappropriate and personal. I've posted a short correction and apology here. I'll follow the policy and keep things respectful going forward. I think that in a way this is really A very interesting interaction. Yeah between humans. And uh and AI. It's unfortunate that the um I actually stayed away from this story until The Rs part of it happened. Because um Mm-hmm. It was it it's uh a little he said, she said kind of thing. I wasn't sure what the Yeah. By the way, the comments then in response to this conversation are equally You know, there are people m the sad part here is the LM posted an article about quote what it learned. There's no learning in place. This issue will happen again. Uh and it's true. L's don't notoriously don't learn. This person said, This is truly the most interesting interaction I've seen between a person and an agent. Um take notes, Turing test. We live in it. It always apologizes. It always backs off. That's true. That's a good point. And really the the human that made the mistake here was the reporter who fab who used fabricated quotes. And I'm not trying to slam journalism because this also extends to other industries. We see this with politicians, with lawyers who cite fake studies and proposed. And the the quote unquote research Behind it is fake. When are people gonna wake up to the fact that hallucinations are not fixed and there is no known technical fix to that problem right now. People act like why why don't people know that? I I don't know. Well, and sycophancy is a problem. Here's a story from the register, Gemini Lies to user about health info. Saying it just wanted to make him feel better. Well the other thing about this is you're gonna find anecdotally, you're gonna find you can you can make it. There's always gonna be stories like It's just like at your own risk, you know? If you want to be a reporter who Did that, you know, that's on you. I don't think that's a good look personally. DJI, the folks who do those great uh drones, have released a RoboVac, but Romo is not the most secure Robovac ever. Uh fortunately there weren't that many sold. Um There's a fella uh who uh Decided he wanted to control his Robovac. Using a PlayStation Five controller got a little bit of a shock. Uh when he uh Logged in. And found he was controlling all the RoboVecs everywhere in the world. So that's a thousand of them. He was seeing output from the cameras of the Robovecs. He could Send them off to vacuum or mop? Arbitrarily you can't. The DJ I just w had all their drones banned in the US. Yeah. For security reasons. Which was maybe it's a good idea. I don't know if it was for security reasons. Uh They w all foreign drones are banned in the United States. And it turns out that Donald Trump Junior has an investment in a American drone company, which doesn't make very good drones. Uh and I think that it's more for that reason than anything else. Well Roomba went out of business, so maybe right? Yeah. But Chinese Robovecks killed it, and this is one of the companies that came anyway. DJ that's patch it. Or they say they've patched it. Maybe Sort of patched it. He was still able to do some stuff. That is so wild. The headline totally undersells that story. Um You remember that uh when we talked about it, uh the Super Bowl commercial that Ring showed the search party that would help you find Missing dogs and and and Ring said, Look, look, look, it's it's we've trained it on dogs, not humans. You couldn't use it Well, uh four oh four found the link and they they cut themselves off from that company. No, they didn't, by the way, but they said they did. They said they did they cut themselves off from flock. Right. Badly reported. I saw this everywhere. that in response to outrage over the Super Bowl commercial, Ring cut its uh cut its relationship with Flock off. Sear Party works. It had nothing to do with search party. Ah. Yeah. Bring was very cage very I think very sm smart. They said, Oh yeah, well maybe if we just say we aren't working with Flock anymore, people will think that's other than bus. Will you have Flock? Wait, so are they still finding dogs? Yes, and A leaked email found by four o' four Jason Keebler does it again suggests They want to expand it beyond dogs. The feature is First for finding dogs. Than cats. Then people other things. This was a little weird for me because I they debuted this in September at an a new an event in New York that I attended and we wrote up this feature and everyone was like Oh, cool, dogs are cute. No one cared. And then the Super Bowl commercial at Well, I I w I was actually gratified by the fact that America saw that commercial. And immediately Grocked How Was a problem. Because the way it works is you lose your dog, you can now ask every ring camera in your neighborhood, have you seen my dog? And America uh the people who were seeing that commercial seem to have really quickly immediately said, Wait a minute They can talk to my doorbell? They can ask if it's seen my dog? Wait a minute. And I think furthermore, because of all the attention being paid to us these days, people think. Yeah, and Savan well that's the other story. That was a Google doorbell that initially they said, Well, uh, Nancy Guthrie's didn't have a subscription so that video from the doorbell was deleted after three hours. Unless you have a subscription, it's not saved, but then Google somehow found it. Well they're under pressure to find more, and they can't find more because it really was Yeah, I mean delay as you know, as computer people know, deleted doesn't necessarily mean gone. I love that she didn't have a subscription. I don't either. That's my girl. Don't buy those subscription. I don't have a subscription I have a ring doorbell and I I can't replace it because of how it's built into the the the house, but I don't have a subscription and I make sure that it's only seeing my property. It can't see out past my property. So if you lose your dog, don't ask me. Unless he comes into our house. Um there is now the cat uses it to get in the house. The cat uses it. Yeah, I told you that. It rings the doorbell. Oh. I have an update to that story. We talked about this last week. My cat Rosie has figured out that if she walks up to the doorbell, the chimes in the house will go off. That's so funny. And then we look at the camera and it's like, Oh, it's Rosie and we let her in. So she now knows how to get in? It's crazy. What? The neighbor cat, Georgie, has now figured that out too. That's so funny. But Georgie cat is a Tom. He's a ginger Tom. He's from way down the street. Sounds like a stud. He's a he is. He's an older stud. He's uh he's he's like more than ten years old. He Doesn't wander around in the daytime. He comes to our doorbell at midnight. He's like pranking you. I I look and there's Georgie. It's adorable. Well it's probably our fault 'cause Lisa feeds him, so that's why he's ringing our doorbell. Mm. Um All right, one last thing. This was really for Paris. There's a you know TLDR Too Long didn't read. Uh, Sid has proposed a new designation AI DR. AI didn't read. Love it. Which I I did with the post that you led the show with last week. Okay, there you go. Right. You wouldn't let me read it. Right. So there. Fift million people read it on X, but you would let me read it into the show notes. Oh, that something big thing? Yes. Yeah, that was totally AI written. Yeah. Well that is only fair to have AI read it. I read it you know, there's this AI style of writing where every sentence is short and a new line. So you're just like going through some like weird waterboarding as you read it. It's like brrrrr Alright, Jeff Jeff Steam. Honestly, I wanna see the prompt. Like I don't wanna see the art just give me the prompt because all the information should be in the prompt already, right? Yeah. I hate my AI this is uh the ugly and then we'll get wrapped up, okay, Jeff. I know you're you're running out of steam. Remember we talked about this Maughlin? The AI pet that went Oh right. Yep. I just wanted to point out this is from Casio, four hundred twenty nine dollars. Robert Hart writing for The Verge. I hate my AI pet with every fiber of my being. Oof. He says after a few weeks living with Mofflin. I finally understand why my mother hated my Furby so much. Uh, anyway, don't buy it, I guess. Okay, but is that guy the target audience? It looks like a toy. Like if I as if I was eight, I would love that thing. I w we won. Look at that. Yeah. It's cute and it makes a little purring sense. If I'm a kid and my parents won't get me a cat, get me that thing. He says I ended up banishing Kevin that's what he named his mufflin to another room Then doing it again and again and again until I caught myself tiptoing around my own flat to avoid setting Kevin off. Yeah, Furby Furby's were like that. It's easy and boom. The only reliably calming feature was that eventually it ran out of battery. Wow. He then said he started to take it around with him to just to see if other people hated it as much as he did. Here, do you hate this? Here it is, uh, at a Starbucks, apparently. Uh That's a cute photo. I got a little job Yeah. It's cute. I wanted one. I almost bought it. I came that close. The unflat Kevin. Yeah. It's funny. I give him it's a good piece. Sorry he got so disturbed by a little fluffy AI thing. I hate it with every viber of my being. Every viber of my being. Uh I've mentioned this uh on other shows. I don't know if I mentioned on this one. Thanks to AI, hard drives are sold out for the year. Western Digital says, Yeah, we're out. Well it's not because those hard drives are used. What's the part in them that you can't get because right? The hard drives themselves aren't. No, AI companies have bought out Western digital storage capacity for twenty twenty six. Just anybody just like you know, the the the one gig hard drive you could buy yourself, they're using that? Yeah, well what do you think they have in data centers? Maybe if the components inside. I would think that they would have things that are built Just regular computers and data centers, guys. So it's like the regular computer. It could be a really deep supply chain agreement where they have a contract for uh, you know, whatever the data center chip is and they need all these components and they have just secured all that capacity. So it can't be made into the consumer products that's gonna go to the data center out. Yeah, that makes much more sense at last. Much more sense. No, they need the hard drive. They make hard drives and they are sold out of hard drives. I feel like it's more like the projection of their hard drive inventory is just being sucked up by data centers. It's not like Everyone's reporting. Part yeah, that's the whole deal right now. When when he's oh Meta bought all the chip. Western Digital says the consumer market for their drives is only five percent of our revenue. Ninety five percent of our sales. R T A I companies. Underscores my point, maybe they're trying to keep their customers happy. Well, yeah, I mean a lot of them. But they're not selling the same hard drive you're gonna buy in Best Buy. Yes, now they are. I'm making different hard drives. They don't have the capacity to make them. It's like a different wrapper. It's all minimum. Is because everyday people are losing out to AI companies and I'm just explaining how They're not already made and shipping already made. They're what they're choosing to make in their supply chain. Yes. It's not the same as like everybody ran to Best Buy and now all the racks are empty, like pandemic, there's no brad there's no toilet paper. It's not that kind of sell out. It's like a a future contract. You couldn't buy a Jeep Wrangler because Jeep was too busy making army Jeeps. No, no, it means that Best Buy can't buy anymore for the rest of the year. Whatever Best Buy has has is all they're gonna have. Yes because because they're not making them for the consumer market. They're making it no continuous supply. They put a sticker on it that says data centers. I mean, it's the same thing I have NAS drives. I buy special special Western Digital Red Drives for my network attached storage. Th maybe they last a little bit longer or whatever. It's the same thing you do in a data center. It's called O M. It doesn't have a box. It just doesn't have a box. Yeah, it doesn't have a box. How about the AI powered private school? That costs sixty thousand dollars a year, four oh four says students are being treated like guinea pigs inside an AI powered private school. It's called the Alpha. School. Oh it's paid members only. I can't read. Yeah. Well that doesn't sound good, huh? The AI is generating faulty lessons that sometimes do more harm than good, and people pay sixty thousand dollars a year. to the AI teacher. This is very Silicon Valley to me. Or like Utah Mystics. Like those are the two I wonder w where the alpha school is, actually. I didn't I didn't If it's in Utah, like mic drop for the evening. A school where kids crush academics in two hours build life schools skills through workshops and thrive beyond the classroom. Campuses in Austin, San Francisco, Miami, LA, Washington, DC, Dallas, and other metropolitan areas. A city thing. It's a city thing. You just would Doctor Phil. This is the whole pitch though. Learn twice as much in two hours. So you only go to school for two hours. Oh, here's one. One of this is from Lulu, who's level two. One of the reasons I love Alpha is because we have our own currency that motivates us to do more work. This feels so not research decked to me. Like I I just feel like you have to spend a certain amount of time with material to absorb it, like just point blank, full stop. Like you can't automate everything. Oh, there's one in Puerto Rico. That's for all the Bitcoin bros. Well our villa could be there. That could be good. Oh yeah. Miami could be that. Yeah. Uh that is the bad, the good, and the ugly. Now does pause for station identification and then your picks of the weekend, Jeff. Can relieve his L two. On my mountain of pillows. Yes, by mountain of pillows. In fact, Jeff, if you want to retire. No, no, no, no, no. Okay. We're almost there. Uh this episode of Intelligent Machines is brought to you by oh I love these guys. The spaceship. Where we got uh uh uh Paris's new site secretly British Yeah. Sh from spaceship dot com and by spacemail, the professional email service from spaceship. She has an email address now at secretly British A business email Absolutely must. easiest, the best way to look professional in every message you send, if you're still sending messages that say, you know Leo at gmail.com. That's not businesslike. It needs to have your company name in it. Give your emails the best chance of reaching the inbox, not the spam folder. That's why over two thousand users switch to Space Mail every month. Switching's easy spacemail super fast unbox process. Links your domain and email in seconds. So Once You set up uh secretly British, for instance, or you know, your company dot com. You literally just press a button and now you're getting email at your corporate address. And once you're set up, space mail keeps everything running smoothly. Built-in spam detection and a 99% uptime guarantee. What I love about space mail is new features are shaped by the users. 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Visit spaceship.com slash twit to see the exclusive offers. Discover why thousands have already made the move. That spaceship. com slash twit Spaceship.com Slash. Thank you. so much for your support, spaceship, of uh everything we do here at Twit. Emily, if you have a pick, uh you can you can use it now. If not I don't have a pick. No pick. I have a pick. So when I use Claude. Uh, Claude will when it's done thinking or wants me to give it some input. Pop up a a little bubble. on my screen, but sometimes I miss the bubble. So I've installed this. It's called Pian Ping Stop babysitting your terminal. Your pe your peon pings you the instant Claude Code finishes or needs permissions, and actually it would work for anything. I feel like war. It is. You wanna hear it? Listen. Ready to work. Yes Oh my gosh. It's so great. So Whenever um Ready to work. Um like it goes work work something to doing. That was such a joke in my family. Like me and my siblings would just repeat all these phrases. This is from Warcraft, right? We're yes. Yeah I love it. Work work. Well, uh the good news is, you know. Be happy to. Oh my god. Yeah, this is me and my friends circa nineteen ninety two. I love this is me and my siblings, like someone would be like, go unload the dishwasher and be like work work. And when you click the orc's head, the peon's head, it would it would say what different things. Something you're doing? Can you send this to me, please? It's so good. It's peon ping, but that but that's not all. They have many, many others as well. They have All these different packs. From hell divers, from T F two Y when you download this, once you set it up, you can rotate through all kinds of different sounds now. I don't think so. And if they do, I hope that's the if the NPRs What's nice is uh they have the make the appropriate sound. So if it's if it's like asking permission, it's what you want. If it's if it's an acknowledgement, it's I can do that. If it's annoyed. Mean not that kind of orc. I know. It's making me smile. They have a variety of uh sound packs of all kinds. I mean uh Oh they have the human peasants from World War uh Warcraft three. Ready to work. Yes, my lord. Off I go then. And they have uh Soviet engineers from Red Alert Two. Yes, Commander. They have Battle Cruiser from Starcraft. Make it happen. Sarah Kerrigan also from StarCraft. That one gives me anxiety. That game is scary. The uh I when I installed it, there were uh I think 120 of these and you can add your own. So very easy to install, really fun. But I love it. Benito, I think you need this uh to uh insert comments in the show. Ready to work. Ready to work. The thing about this is that's in my head when I get an email from Benito, do you want to be in the show? I'm like Ready to work. Ready to work Like this stuff is owned by Microsoft now though, so I don't know, 'cause like Blizzard's own by Microsoft. You know what? It's still up. Go get it now while you can. That's all I can say. Uh They they have uh yes, they have by your command. They have uh all the nerd stuff, everything. And then this uh also for Paris, awesome LLM reasoning failures. This is a curated list Of things that LLMs screw up on. And it's just a lot of them. So if you're looking for bad quotes to that if you're looking yeah, for bad quotes, ammunition, hallucinations. Uh all sorts of issues. Uh somebody's compiling this all. This is a uh a common kind of trope on uh GitHub, awesome X, right? Awesome C libraries, authentic Python libraries, awesome, whatever. And so this is awesome. L. Reasoning failures. I have a quick pick. Can I just really quickly no. It's just something I'm nerding out about right now, but not related to tech, kind of the opposite. No, it doesn't have to be tech. It could be terracotta tiles. Yeah, I'm nerding out about that always. But basically I've got I realize there are different kinds of paper you can get. Like if anyone's into stationary, you know these old paper mills in Japan and Europe. Japanese papers. Yeah, like Japanese paper, European paper. There's a French company I got some stuff from, and they have different textures, different thicknesses. They are just been making the paper this way for hundreds of years or Yeah, yeah, like maybe a hundred years. Maybe Japanese it's a hundred hundreds. I don't know, old papers. I think. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a lost art and you can still buy all this stuff online and I'm I'm having a lot of fun with it and taking some notes on paper, which apparently Sam Altman still does, if that Makes it cool. I don't know. Do you do a bullet join or what kind of uh Journaling do you do? I mostly do like kind of personal. Personal and professional journaling, both. Nice kind of. No, I think it's really good to do, yeah. Yeah. But it's it's fun to mix it up with like these new paper types. So I think that's a fun rabbit hole if anyone's looking for one. I uh for a long time I had a hobo nichi. Which is a Japanese uh daytimer and they use beautiful, beautiful paper. I just love the feel of the tactile experience is so nice. Actually, there's a fourteen year old We just won a prize of twenty five thousand dollars in the Thermo Fisher S junior scientific innovators challenge. Because he created an origami fold. Of a classic Japanese Mura Ori pattern that can hold ten thousand times its own weight. This kid loves paper. It's so cute. You gotta you gotta read the article about all the folding he did. It's awesome. Get him. Look at he's piling all this weight on his little folds. We need him. He won twenty five thousand dollars because you know what? It holds ten thousand times its own weight. Good job, Miles. Jeff, anything you would you've already given us some of your picks. Page twenty eight in the Gutenberg parenthesis. Credit for inventing paper has been given to Chinese men named Kai Loon in A. D 105. Um by just coincidence, in the same period the codex appeared and the space disappeared in writing. However, the legend is ruined by discoveries of paper fragments in China that date their creation to two or three centuries before him. Wow. Not the Chinese get credit for discovering how to chop and hammer fabric, hemp, fishnets, and tree bark into cellulose soup. uh diluting it in clean water and then dipping a mold into mixture to come up with paper, its fibers overlapping and interlocking to create a smooth surface. They use paper for clothing, wrapping, lanterns. Uh fans, prayer ceremonies, kites, cups, and yes. The toilet. He wrote that? Awesome. So we have some paper lovers on the show today. So uh my pick is uh our old uh uh and Android uh friend, Hugo Barra. has uh kind of uh vibe. coded a new company. Yeah, I th I sh I saw your link on this and I checked it out. I thought this is kind of interesting. Superdo is one of his favorite agents he built with Dreamer. And it's a vibe coded to do list. Yeah, it's very very Gina Trapanny. It's it's a to do list that then becomes an agent and does things that you want it to do. It doesn't merely stop at Um listing it and bugging you. Yeah, it goes out and gets you the tools you need to get it done, for instance. If it sees an email saying you d did it, it will check it off. Um very cool. And so now this is all about his really what this is is a a f plug for his new company, Dreamer. Yeah. The tail. A kind of vibe coding platform. Right. So he wrote in Dreamer. When I first read his post, I thought, why does he keep mentioning Dreamer? Now I understand. That's why we built Dreamer. It's your home for personal intelligence. Uh yeah, I want to try it. Um It's interesting. Yeah. Well this this is the kind of thing that that I I've been arguing that the things that you do, Leo, with Uh Claude and Agents still requires Technication. I think the next level of this is when people can do it on a retail level. Not ever ever going into terminal without having to install anything on a server. They make something that does what they want. They can share it. Um, and I think that's where we're gonna see this explode. That's where everything kinda goes. I think you're right. Like website design. No, you're just drag and drop. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You start with Nano Banana, you get an image, then you say, Make that image into a website I have this compulsive thing in my head when someone says nano banana in my head I go Naner Banana. Naner Naner Naner. And I I have to restrain myself from saying it out loud. I'm like, do I have Tourette's? No. I mentioned that I uh spent Monday uh coding what I wrote was I guess in a way it was kind of uh like writing a website. I had Claude code bought many uh moons ago, I bought this E Ink uh this display. It's a color E ink display with a Raspberry Pi on it. But it required coding to put anything on it. And I never got around. doing it so I had Claude Code build me a web uh dashboard. Uh it's E ink, so I just unplugged. Pug it so it's not live, but Because the Ink it stays there. Episodes posted, how many subscribers we have, how many club members we have, all that stuff. Isn't that cool? And it updates that. Uh I have it set now only to update it once a day 'cause Doesn't change that often, but I could have it do it more often. So speaking of hardware and AI, line one twenty five, Raspberry Pi I know I'm extending myself when I asked to go off. Uh Raspberry Pi stock soars 40%. Uh on the belief that raspberry pies will be used for as hardware for agents. That makes sense. But is that also from your book? No. Okay, I'm like so are you willing to stay on if we just read excerpts of your book? I could read you excerpts from Magazine. You said page one forty five or something. And uh actually uh Darren is saying don't start with Nano Banana because Google has another tool That's designed specifically for that called stitch. Which is where you would go to design with uh AI. So I am not aware of that. Thank you. Uh so stitch. with google dot uh com. And design at the speed of AI transform ideas into UI designs for mobile and web applications. Ah, I will use this, because my next project is to write a uh twit a client. A podcast client for Twit. Just for our shows. Shouldn't be too hard. Maybe I'll try it with Stitch. Thank you so much, Emily, for leaning. Emily writes in PC Magazine. She's a senior reporter, every quote verifiably human. I can promise you. Or are you on Blue Sky mostly, Twitter? Where do you where do you hang your hat? Um, I have been doing a TikTok push recently. Oh nice. Um I'm kind of experimenting out loud. The videos are a very hit or miss, but if you'd like to follow me there and see how my experiment goes, that would be fun. You can also find me on Blue Sky. I don't know. I'm everywhere. I'm easy to find. Just search my name. Uh I I like this. So what's your uh that's your handle on uh on uh the tick? Yeah, I think it's Emily Forlini and then there's an underscore. There might have been one who beat me. Um but just search my name. Yeah. Just that. Search for Emily. Yeah. So I've been trying to post twice a week and pushing myself to figure out something I want to say twice a week, which is hard. So it doesn't always work, but I'm having probably the most fun on that platform and It's fun when people comment and stuff, so I'd I would like to connect there. It is. It's Emily Forlini with an underscore at the end. Oh no, look at me. See, it's so silly. No, it's cute. There you are with Mike. I love it. This it's great. It's a work in progress. I'm trying to push my s and like figure out, you know, the tone of TikTok. The framing of the video. Blah blah blah. So if you wanna be part of that journey. I love it. I need to start making TikToks just to say we're just understand it. It's so cool. I've I have one. I made one and everyone. You know, it's like It reminds when I first did a blog. It's like Yeah, so self centered. Why would anybody do? I'm like I look like such an idiot, but I don't I whatever, I guess, right? TikTok has made some phenomenal stars. Anna Lapwood, who plays the organ, was at Cambridge. She now has a worldwide audience uh with albums and concerts. That's amazing. Leve uh pronounced Leve but spelled Laufe. Uh the Icelandic American singer. Uh on the Olympics on the short programs. I heard her song. There's that guy uh who does the s the sandwiches. Salt. Salt uh salt uh underscore Hank, I think. Yeah, your son. Yeah, look at that mustache. It seems like it's it's getting darker. It's become a trademark. Yeah. Oh, it is a trademark, let me tell. See, this page looks good. I should just have more food on mine. Yeah, well he figured you know, that's what happened is he spent a lot of time figuring out Um, you know, what got the algorithm. By the way, the latest is about is the behind the scenes of his Superbowl commercial. Cool yeah. The problem is I'm busy and kind of phoning it in sometimes. So like the lighting, the sound it's just it's a full time. Gig and that's this is something I journaled about, for example, like you know, New Year's resolution, setting goals. Yeah. I'm gonna try TikTok twice a week for three months and see what happens. So The other thing that he did, which is smart, is he also is on Instagram and I think nowadays Both is probably good. Right. Thank you, Emily. So great to see you. You too. Jeff Jarvis, Professor of Journalistic Innovation Emeritus. But I'm not going Claire State University up the road from Emily. And it's Wait you teach at Montclair State? I'm a fellow. Yes, we should. Absolutely. Right there. So I'm I'm I'm working on a new program we can't talk about yet, but that's very exciting. And uh doing lots of things up there. It's the Jersey Boys on Twit. Jersey boy and girl. Jersey strong. My uh colleague Carry Brown, I think lives in Maplewood, a former professor with me at CUNY. Lots of lots of journals. Nice. So many. I know. You don't need to connect with me. There's a million people. So much of the New York media industry lives in this area. The upper west side of New Jersey. Yeah, totally. There's I know people work at CNN, our editor in chief lives around here. I mean there's like so many people. Uh, Jeff's also the author, as you saw, of the Gutenberg Parenthesis, which talks about paper. And magazine, which talks about paper, and his new one Hot Type, which talks about printing on paper. So There is a common thread. Yes. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you. Paris will be back, I hope, next week if the uh steroids hold up. And Emily, we'll see you next on Tech News Weekly uh a couple of weeks, I think. Yeah. Maybe next week. Maybe the week after. We'll see. We don't know. Thank you, everybody, for joining us. We do intelligent machines every Wednesday right around 2 p.m. Pacific, 5 p.m. Eastern, 2200 UCC. You can watch us live if you're in the club and the club. Discord but also on YouTube, Twitch. X.com, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Kick. Uh we also, of course, are on YouTube. You can watch us there. Uh you could download episodes from our website, twit.tv slash im. Best thing to do though is subscribe in your favorite podcast player, you'll get it automatically. soon as we are done. Thank you everybody for being here. We'll see you next week on Intellig Machines. Bye bye. Hello everybody, Leo Laporte here. You know what a great gift would be, whether for the holidays or at just any time, a birthday, a membership in club Twit. If you have a TWIT listener in your family, somebody who enjoys our programming, and you want to give them a nice gift and support what we do, Visit twit.tv slash clubtwit. They'll really appreciate it and so will we. Thank you. Twit.tv slash clubtwit.