Property Management and AI Exploits

It's time for intelligent machines. Jeff and Paris are here. Yay, Paris is back and we have... An amazing guest. Jeff Atwood is the creator of Stack Exchange. He created Discourse, the form software reuse, and now he wants to give universal income to people in poor counties around the country. What does Jeff Atwood think about Everything coming up next on Intelligent Machines. Podcasts you love. From people you trust. This is Twit. This is Intellig Machines with Jeff Jarvis and Paris Smartnow Episode 859, recorded Wednesday, February 25th, 2026. What's behind the fox? It's time for Intellig Machines, the show where we cover AI, robotics, and all the smart little doodads. Surrounding us. In every part of our lives, it is time for me to welcome back to our microphones. Uh, the person we missed the most last week, Paris Martinot. How are you feeling? You feeling well? I'm feeling great. I'm uh sensibly healthy. I'm snowed in, but my uh stress levels are rising because this pre-show has been a whirlwind. I'm gonna do it. And this is why you need to get in club to it, because you need to see what just happened here. I can't wait to get to it. Understand what you're asking for. I mean that was a giant Joel's ass. Okay, let me introduce the uh my other partner in crime here, Jeff Jarvis, Professor of Journalism Emeritus at the City University of New York with his he's daredevil. Yes, he is Daredevil. He is now at uh an adjunct. something or other at uh Montclair State University and Beautiful New Jersey and uh Sunny Stonybrook in beautiful New York. But you gotta wait for respect for lawyers. Yes, he's a professor. Starting our guest, ladies and gentlemen, is uh Bundle of Energy and I am thrilled to get him on the wonderful legendary Jeff. Would. Blogger, his famous blog, Coding Horror, is one of the very best coding blogs out there. Uh, founder of Stack Overflow. That should tell you something. And uh he's the founder also of Discourse, which is the forum software we've been using for about ten years and adore. It's the best. And uh it's great to welcome you, Jeff Atwood, to uh Intelligent Machines. Thank you and what took you so long to invite me? I've had your partner on before, Joel Spolsky. Joel's invite me on? Like I'm inviting him on. Shocking. You know you remind me a little of Andy Herzfeld. You have the you have Andy Herzfeld's energy. Interesting. Do you know Andy? I don't. Yeah. But a compliment or an insult? Oh no, it's an absolute compliment. He was of course one of the legendary uh uh creators of the Macintosh back in the You know who I do know is Bill Budge. Pinball instruction set. I got it up here for us. No kitten. The name of our company is Civilized Discourse Construction Kit. Comes from Bill? But the constructions at series. Can I be a prop comic and grab the case of the crazy. Yeah, we gotta get some props. Everybody's looking at your props, look at all these like off brand computer things. This thing's playing Minesweeper. And it has a C you it's a operate Lego you've got a desktop PC. It looks like a game boy. Oh what is down there? This is like a model of those computers old people used to use that kids build for fun. It has minesweeper. It's Windows like ninety five. It's a PC Junior in a No, it's a classic beige PC. Oh my. Made out of offbreed Lego. And then I'll show you this one's this is more of a gaming rig. They don't sell us anymore. Well look how sweet this rig would be. Look at this. Video card GP it's got it all. What the hell? Is it made out of Lego too? Well it's an off brand Hand to C? It's like let's just make up. That's her name. I mean that's fine. You will you will lose your pants when you play our games on the Pantasy. Yeah, it says Pantasy. I can provide it for show notes. That one is really fun. I sent it to uh a friend I'm working with on R GMI who was also one of the early people at Sac Overflow and We're just having the time of our lives, like revisiting this fun we had. building stack overflow because when you work with me It's like mandatory fun. Because I I think so why bother? So here I am, I've been using Discourse as our forums at twit.community for years. It's the discourse construction set or something like that. I had no idea it was based on the pinball construction set that Bill Budge created. Oh no. I've set him off on another tangent lately. Oh by the way, Bill Budge still has this this this glove and this you're gonna crack up. Bill is such a sweetheart. And he works so hard on the JavaScript engine at Chrome. I didn't know he did the JavaScript engine at Chrome. Wow. And and he said to me, Jeff You've changed my life. And I'm like You were my idol. I was playing Your games. It's also funny, he doesn't actually like video games. He just likes building construction. He's a coder. Yeah. He's very pure. He's a wonderful man. He still lives at the same house. If you get that old software, that's his home address. Wow. Still lives there. He's so grounded. I love him. Apple to Apple two. What an honor. Oh, there it is. Oh Pinball. I love well, I have a pinball. That was the best that was the he did Raster Blaster too, which is a local place in Alameda that has a good pinball place going to go. He's got a little ball in a box. Trapped. It will never live its full life because you've trapped it in that plastic bike. Look who's a big fan of Cody Hart. Or the best coders. That is pretty cool. And that thing Carmack said about me was I think Stack Overflow has added billions of dollars to the world productivity. And I read that in Carl Sagan's voice. Billions and billions of dollars. I was like so stunned. It was an incredible compliment to live up to. Um there's a few others that were in the series and it was like we're we'll make 'em rock stars. Uh Racing destruction set was kind of fun. Wow. Not as good as the other one. If you make a construction kit, you should make a destruction set, I think. Yeah. There was one racing destruction set. Yes, I saw it. Yeah. Adventure construction set. That was fun. I remember playing these. Making some. And just for no particular reason love Archon. Arcon He did Archon? That was a great arts. It's like it was on the Atari. I had it on the Atari. I loved Archon. The pieces would come alive and they it was kind of a chess like game. It was really good. Yeah, here's sort of the game as it looked. Yeah. It was really good. It was like uh what is the game? With a night figure test where they animate the characters? Yeah, it was kinda like Star Wars. Star Star Trek. This is the um Commoner sixty four version. What is it? Anyway. Different set of artists. And then we need a new archon, maybe Jeff, you do you code it all still? Music instruction set of very high language high very high level language called English. We're using it right now. It's the best cutting lens. That is how I changed the world. It is very highly. Unleashing them. So anyway, this was nice. I had a like a synthesizer to do this Apple to C. And uh but that's the the philosophy is like It's a construction set. For communities that don't rip themselves apart with drama and like the howling of wolves and it just doesn't degenerate because you have standards like look. You know, we're here to be kind of kind to each other and actually discuss the topics. And You know, if you're gonna attack something, tack the topic. And just is your answer adding something to the conversation or just like I'm so mad now someone is wrong on the internet. Well, it's not just a lot of things It's not just the internet, it has become the world, hasn't it, uh of this polarized anger. I had people lecturing a massive It's not polarized. I'm like, are you serious? Um but yes, the polarization Because first of all, we have a two party system. the worst form of democracy. It does kind of lend itself to polarization, does it. And We can't amend the constitution. Explain how if you think that can happen. All the scholars like no. It comes down to interpretation. And guess who's in charge of interpretation? Sad trombone sound, you know who it is. Congress. World's worst couples counselor, not Roberts. Uh let me get to uh 'cause we only have half an hour with the wonderful Jeff Atwood, and there's so many things I want to ask you. No, no, no. You got more? You want more? Well we c Je Jeff Jarvis can only sit on the side. I love your reaction to this. What am I looking at? What is this person? I get this a lot. I They're like I've never met anyone like you. You know I hear it everyone. No, I'm just I'm intrigued by you and Leo bouncing off each other is it's like It's like a dark fractile Leo is how I would describe you. Not that you're dark in a nature or tone. It's just you guys. I'm trying to uh understand the prism on which you guys exist because there's like a wavelength that is matching up here. But I can't quite actually hear a course. And he's got it super heart. I can see it in them. It's not as good as mine, but it's pretty good. I'm actually a kind of a misanthrope, believe it or not. I don't But I do you know what I care about human beings in abstract. It's the individuals I'm not crazy about. But in abstract, I think uh humans are pretty great, pretty amazing, w the things we've done. So by the way, I was misinformed it was the Supreme Court is who you were talking about, not Congress. Yeah, they're in charge of interpreting. They're in charge of interpretation. Congress makes the law. Supreme. Breaks the law. We'll see. I think that could be anyway, enough positive Jeff, Jeff, so Uh, to make this about AI, we will talk about Stack Exchange in a little bit because in in some ways AI wouldn't exist without Stack Exchange and in other ways AI decimated stack exchange. Fortunately, you had already sold it. Before it before decimates. Define decimate. Well I think it dropped. I don't think the correct statistics is being used. Okay. Uh, the statistic I have read is that the monthly question volume on Stack Exchange dropped seventy eight percent since chat GPT. Do you know how many of his questions probably sucked? Most of them. So what I'm saying is So no loss is what you're saying. It was no loss. You optimize for pearls, not sand. Questions are everywhere. Of all types. There they'll never stop. Everyone's every pearl starts with a grain of sand, but not every sand grain becomes a pearl. But what's the point of question that nobody it's so silly or don't It's the answers that are doing the real work. And I don't mind this, but Joel always was not a fan of this, was like They don't understand the relationship. It's like We want to help you. If you're willing to do the work to help yourself. You have to ask the right question. Rubber duck, um question asking where before you ask here work whatever Okay, ask your question of this rubber duck over here. People do that with debugging, don't they? Rebber duct debugging. Okay, so ask your question of this phone. Hold on. Okay, folks. He's got the original it looks like I can't believe that's real. Oh it's a it's an iPhone. This thing is really nice. You can even take it back off to me because this is so much for a completely impractical, ridiculous thing. This is surprisingly practical. I want to get one because you could carry it around on the street. People would think you're on one of those old Motorola The original cell. That is hysterical. Now shut up. Mom, it's not a good time. I'm on this really important show, Theo can All right, hold on. Fine. Well I was like that. I'm an only child, she know it is. Um so we we do want to talk about stack exchange and we wanna talk about your second startup, which is Discourse, which I love. But let's talk about this third startup to begin. We'll begin at the end. Because you said this is your third and last startup. Well The thing is I By the way, Paris. Her website features a profile picture of her holding That phone. Can you show that, Benito? Oh I can't share my screen. We can't we don't have the technology because we've had we've had to figure out something pre show. But no it exists. Continue about Discourse. Yes. So no, after Discourse you decided to do the R G M I I exactly aspirational shortcut is stay gold U S all one Then it will redirect you. Stay gold US. Let me explain the process here. So things happen. And I'm like I don't understand what's happening. And I'm like, I gotta come to terms with this. And figure out a way forward. I don't I need something to do, I need a mission. I can't just roll over and take it. And no one should. I was like, What do you do? It's a complicated problem. And the more I thought about it, the more I laid it out. And the blog post is w that took that was three months of a nervous breakdown, I'm not lying. I'm not even really telling you some of the stuff that happened during the uh if you scroll the bottom, there's a behind the music where I do talk a little bit about like the process. But it was excruciating because I went to hundreds of Americans. And ask them. What does the American dream? Yo. Then that's that entire post. You grew up in rural Virginia? Correct, Chesterville County and then University of Virginia? So you have a certain affection. Alexis Ohinian, who won't even talk to me, but go ahead. Yeah, we're we're way beneath him at this point. But he did marry well. I'm very impressed. Married very well. No complaint. I got Dr. Betsy, she's awesome, but like I mean, come on. Let's be real. So the rural uh it's the it's the rural guaranteed minimum income initiative. Uh when Wesley uh Faulkner told me about it on Twit a few weeks ago, I said, Is this is this ba uh is this uh universal basic income? Is this UBI? That's a good point. We're working on a fact that covered sort of the when we posted this On Reddit there was a fairly robust discussion, Hacker News. And I want to make sure someone had some Good questions, but like misconceptions. about like how it works and what it is. And Universal is universal. You're giving everybody X, which for healthcare great. If you're alive and a human being, you should get healthcare. That's the mean test. They call it mean testing. And I get it. For healthcare, you shouldn't be doing this. But we're not at the healthcare level. We're saying okay. Money and economics, four out of five economists is great. If you're dead Money and economics is irrelevant. So healthcare is the base. And the food banks, you know, that with Cormac and my partner volatility and we donated a bunch of money. And It's just Means testing simply means And I got this from R people are so angry about like means testing like what? It's just basic eligibility. as they're drilled into it. It's like they're right, but they're not right. And this will be in the fact what happen what happens is these middlemen companies come in and create these incredibly Byzantine complex processes to to validate this and charge the government exorbitant amounts to do it. Because the more complex it is, the more money they make. You know, and it's that's what they're mad at. All I'm saying is, why don't we take a fixed amount of money? And give it to the people that need it the most. I don't even know why this would be slightly controversial, but they're saying that's impossible. You can't do that efficiently. And I'm like, Really? 'Cause give me a shot at it. I think we can do it. So you're proposing to give uh it's not a lot of money. What is it, sixteen hundred dollars a month? That's a lot of money for a lot of people. You understand which counties we're in. Right. Yeah, in New York City it's nothing. They'll get a hot dog. Right. But in these places we're working, it's the rural areas. by the way, a lot of political power here and rather than be angry at them for their things, why don't we try to help them and show them the generosity they deserve. That like anyone cares about them. Because What they're saying is year after year, nobody does anything to help us. How much money do you need? Me personally? No. How much money does the whole project need? On the RGY website, it's one of the few websites where you go you go to the buy the product page, there's four tiers. Free? One million dollars. Three million dollars and fifteen million dollars. How much do you need in total? How much do you do? For the three that we did. It's a chicken and egg problem. We're like, look, go, go, go. I got my mom's county. And my dad's county, both of those counties, if you sorted the counties in West Virginia and North Carolina by poverty, they're exactly in the middle. You couldn't have made it more perfect. And that's kinda where you have to come in. So you're gonna start with these three counties. It it's already started, man. Fifth. Uh, the participating families, again they have to qualify, will receive fifteen hundred dollars a month. But not forever, but for random lottery because there's more people that want in but that helps the science. The goal is to like look And you've got to study the study the impact over the sixteen months is that the idea and and show that this works. And you don't you don't say you have to by the way, all the data says that it works. It's like why aren't we doing it? Right. Good question. And I would love to reach every fifty state, because every state is unique, every county is unique, and help a rural county in that state. Do you have an estimate if you did want to help all the rural counties in the United States, how much that would cost? Not a math person? It's forty seven times eighteen. So we need fifteen for the study and then three million for the research. So we can continue to build this. Global repository. It's UBI Data.org. For everyone. To say See. Just to get the data to show that that makes it makes a difference. Tell us if it works. Yeah. Well, then if it does make a difference, which I think we all kind of And all the you know, all the other UBI studies have shown that that that does. Um I've had things said something these people They'll spend it on drugs and booze and and And w what people is this is one of the religious people. That really bothered me. That is too bad. Yeah. Just the basic lack of These people are scrappier than any of us. Before you we began, you were talking about trust. The that The best way to do this is to put some trust in the people you're giving it the money to. You don't tell 'em what to spend it on. These people are surviving like it's working four jobs. Yeah. They know all about survival. They're tenacious. Especially the single mothers. Like I get running maternal programs. Like Rx Kids is amazing, you know, Aisha and Nyandoro and Jackson has done the longest running. GOI program in the United States. For black mothers. And she had incredible insight for us. One thing Betsy and I were worried about is like look, you're giving people reliable, consistent income first series of months, wonderful. What happens when you pull it away? Is it is it's like Lucy pulling the ball from Charlie Brown? And we were so worried. Especially with that. I was like, Oh, you should tell us how it works. She said Jeff. These women plan for this. You've given 'em a timeline, you've given a monthly feeling to be safe and secure. You don't have to sleep on the street. You can actually feed yourself. And now you have time to think about education. Yeah, fixing your Western car. Whatever you need to get to this level. You think people wanna be stuck in poverty? Really? You think you're so that would really be that would really be the best outcome, wouldn't it be to help people out of the year. Any of my experience. Like I talk to lift drivers, they're working so hard. Yeah. Four jobs. I'm sitting on my ass because math making seventy seven dollars. thousand dollars a day. And the markets are really up, by the way. Yay. I have more money to give now. Is um is the fifty million dollars funding list coming from you and your family? Yeah, me and the family and every family we're sat here. I read that post with me. And the other one that went up I was like, This is about you too. We're doing this together. Or not at all. That's nice. I'm not doing this divorced white guy bullshit. I love Betsy and I could I'm not anything I I couldn't live with her. These are the and these are this is the people you come from. And this is your family, which I think is uh is really awesome. Um I was with my dad and Mercer. And just he was like a little kid. And my mom. My mom drives me crazy. She's like me. It's like to me. This is too much. And I'm like, Mom, she's like a little girl finding a place where her grandmother was. And she was ostracized from her family for the crime of wanting a better life. Yeah. She said to me, quote, I didn't want to live in the squalor. And that made her too uppity for her family. If people want to read more about this, going to her graduation. Go to blog.codinghar uh dot com. Uh Jeff's written a number of posts. The road not taken is guaranteed minimum income is probably the place to start. I would say G M I would start the G I dot org. Yeah That's a good place to start. And the actual blog entry That's the latest is like or launching the initiative. It's a funny blog post because unlike Paul Ford, sorry Paul. you you gotta have a lot of caution in the beginning. It's like I don't even want you to go to the website until I've answered like a fair number of questions. And even send people were comment it's like they didn't read anything, you know? So like I tried to bring people in that are willing to actually look at it. You know, and see what it is. I don't want you knee-jerk this doesn't work responses. You know, 'cause you do get that. And it's like this doesn't work. I'm like, sure. Your partner Betsy Your partner Betsy's quote kinda says it. Scientists. We well, we have everything we need. That's how I've always phrased it to our children. That I think extends to our philanthropy. We have everything we need. How do we make sure everybody has what they need? Leo, you're breaking my heart, man. I can't believe that. Did I make him cry? I'm always crying. I have to like take breaks from crying crap done. Okay, so check it out. Leo. And in fact, anyone who wants this, I will give you one. Betsy had these made. Oh that's beautiful. And it's a local. It's a needle point that says we have it printed on the waterpress. Oh, it letterpress, yeah. I see in fact I see the high five, Jeff. Yeah, he knows his letter press. Yeah. I've been meeting some really nice Jeffs. Oh yeah. Jeffs are good people. Anyone who wants these should go on. Oh, that's nice. So how has been what has the response been? I mean, obviously you're looking for people who are wealthy to pitch in. What is the response? And actually show people that we care. It's not even that much money. Forty seven times eighteen, whatever that is. Math people do it. I'm literally the wrong cow doing this. Oh, by the way, I love how they made WordPets Word notepads so much worse on Windows. I don't understand how Jeff added using Windows. Two fifty two. Yeah, you like to suffer. But honestly, like I play a lot of video games and like Good luck playing video games on whatever the hell it is you're running, man. Apple Silicon is so elite. My dream machine. Chromebook running Apple SOCs. Oh, you just spoke to Jeff Smart right there. Jeff, you and I should get married. I'm working my show me, buddy. NVIDIA did announce uh that they're gonna be doing PCs with MediaTech and I MediaTe makes an excellent Chromebook. I wouldn't be surprised to see actually some Apple silicon level Chromebooks. I I'm very skeptical that MediaTech is making good S you're gonna have to I know it's hard to be needed. It's hard to believe. I bought my daughter one, and it's kind of a mind blower. And they're partnering with uh bus part. Just as long as not Qualcomm. I gotta tell him so angry at Qualcomm. Because when we started Discourse, one of my main bets was look JavaScript's gonna be it as faster. As faster, faster on phones. As it will be on desktops. And it got Even faster. Like Apple stuff was like literally. Faster than their laptops. On the phone. Yeah. And meanwhile, Qualcomm is like, hey, how about a ten percent improvement? How about like twelve percent. Well, I think that's why Jensen has decided that he wants to work with MediaTek. I think they want to show Oh, they need some help. So hopefully you can. Yeah. Yeah. Uh an exit for him with a GTX forty ninety. It's like Jensen, he went here and I like Jensen, he's cool. And right next to it is a lady who founded Chand Pand Express. So you got a video card and Pand Express. Look at these products we made. So Jensen would be a good somebody who would be good to get to kick in a little bit. Have you been hearing from these people to say Yeah, I wanna help? But again I'm not really trying. And there are some Matches. And actually one of the biggest is this Holocaust survivor, just so half have you heard of her? No. Let me Propko which right uh you know, sorry. Sorry, we love the props. We are an audio as well as video podcast though, so I have to describe the props. And my God, if you haven't download the video if you just wanna see the backdrop in Jeff's office. This is gonna be if you like insanity. Watch the video. Well it's pretty tidy. Did you clean it up just for us? No, no, it's always clean, of course, I didn't do you know prep. I'm naturally scared. Force of nature. Force of nature. For no money, it's not a problem. This woman, Holocaust Survivor. And one of the sad things that happened to her Her husband died in like fifty-six of pancreatic cancer. Her son, Gerald Huff, who was a primary engine at Google until 2015. also died of patriot patriotic cancer. The book is titled Force of Nature. And I love this woman. I like strong women. She said, I've kind of been a libertarian. I said, well I hope you grew out of that and Michael Tubbs candidate for Lieutenant Governor and his eyes were like this. He's like, You're saying this to us woman? It's like But she did. She's like, Yeah, I know libertarian is just not stupid. Her son wrote a I had that book with us into room. All about he's super worried about jobs being, you know, eradicated by a lot of these uh things. And she's adopted that mindset. She's like all in on UBI. She views it as a bridge, not something that I say, this needs to be kind of the permanent safety net we never had. But You know, we're in agreement that we need to do more with it. And I think that's the thing. I just heard uh from one of our club members. Joe is a good friend who's been out of work for three months he says the job market is murder. Uh it's harder and harder to find work. Uh, especially if you're in a technic, but that's gonna spread with the spread of uh AI. What about prompt engineer? Yeah, I know. That lasted about three weeks. It's not entirely untrue though, because If you structure the question right with Tet and never use anything about promote. Everything is horrible. It's so sick of fantex. And just weak and superficial. Pro is a lot better. You know, it it it it does work. It's like it's an effective system. It's what I've what I've learned using Cloud Code extensively as Jeff. Will tell you is uh it is all about the interaction. It's all about the dialogue. It's almost a Socratic dialogue between you and the machine. Which is the opposite of like I was so worried for how the video would just run the table. And this course is about a few things, JavaScript being very powerful, mobile phones. And You know, the idea that words and paragraphs will still matter. And when I saw just video running the table, I got an existential crisis. Yeah. You know, 'cause like I love words. I love paragraphs. Videos are great and all most videos have text superposed anyway, right? It's like If you wanna change the world, if you want to improve your career, it's not gonna be a TikTok video. Those are cool and all, but like Can you communicate? Can you tell me what the hell it is you've been doing? And can you make me believe in it? that you care about it this much and it it's something that you love and get people excited about it. We're talking to Jeff Atwood. He is the founder of Stack Overflow with Joel Sposky, a creator of Discourse, which is the forum software we use and love and recommend. And uh his latest Is the rural guaranteed uh minimum income initiative, which I think is a really important program. Uh you'll find it at R G M. I.org. And you can also use staygold.us as a friendly shortcut. Staygold.us. Staygold as and don't lose your youthful enthusiasm for the third. No, we want to stay gold. Stay gold, pony boy. We do a really good job of beating it out of people. Yeah. And I want you to eh, not happening to you, and don't let other people do in a way it's a shame. The we have, uh, in the last year kind of stepped back from away from our global um initiatives uh in the United States. And I think we do have a responsibility. Uh uh I think your partner's absolutely right. Uh If you have everything you need, then help others have everything. What is money even for? I don't need to have a How do I spend it all? Yeah. I don't I have I just want a simple life, man. Dana Carvey once said getting rich just means you have a bigger bedroom. I love the screen. Yeah my son and I watched Fury Road and H D R on it. It was like I had waited ten years. I was like, I want to see this with my son. You don't have to tell Paris about that. We convinced him of my big screen. This movie and it has great stuff about Women female empowerment's very And I wanna see Furious next, but It was better than I expected. Furo Furiosa was actually kind of interesting, yeah. It was a great story. Yeah. H C R No compression ac artifacts, baby, like off a disc. She just made me buy the uh all four matrix. I was supposed to say having all formatrics on UHG is really delightful. Uh so It's pretty clear that uh you know, all the AIs that are out there right now are trained on uh just pretty much everything they get their hands on, including most of the internet, Wikipedia, most of the books pirated. I have to think the stack exchange was probably one of the best places for uh AIs to start when it comes to coding. Do you resent that? Not really? I resent it if it hauls out the community. But my feeling is there's always new languages, new situations. Now granted, feeling Java it's there's always new releases of Java, new things, and And the end result is to help people. We always said the best outcome on Stack Overflow. You have a question, you type it into Google, and you see the answer immediately from Stack Overflow. It's a top voted answer. Now you can drill in and see some other good answers. But the goal is to make it Easier for people to be better programmers. Right. So I don't I would be glad to say I don't care. I want it to be sustainable, like almost like a workers cooperative would be kind of my take at this point. I want to go back to the question Leo asked at the beginning about too much code. Riff on that. I mean Have you seen some of the stuff that L's will do when you tell them to optimize? Mm-hmm. It's like optimizes for ninety five percent. It's like, Okay, return true. That's a good optimization. Well, 'cause it doesn't know what it's doing. It has no actual understanding. It's playing a game of Gobal Blane Statistics and copy paste. And it's good at like merging, I call it JPEG for words. Which it kinda is. And there's so much stuff. It's like reading summaries and it is very accurate with summaries. We saw this on discourse. They implemented it. I was very skeptical. And I went to some very complex discussions. We had our internal discourse. And read the summary and was like That is a very good summary. And it captured the key points in the discussion. It could have captured more, but it got nothing wrong. Basically it was JPEG for that conversation, wasn't it? Without such loss. You know, does Apex work on every image? Garfield is a bad choice for, you know. Uh you you sold Stack Overflow, so you're not you you know, you you're at a distance uh now from it. Although it sounds like you still have a certain emotional uh investment in it. Well look, men can't have babies. And I love my family, my God. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have children, it's like You think you know what love is. And you look up at the sky and those whole galaxies. That's love. And regular them seem quite. And like It's overpowering. I have a blog post. If you want to get teared up, read the blog post c titled on fatherhood. Say it again on it. Uh on parenthood. Sorry parenthood. Parenthood. Not not singling me out. Uh but it's just describing that feeling of This is kind of our purpose, better humans. Right. Software's great and all, but like that's the job, man. Right. And we get so many compliments, our kids. So many. And I don't tell them anything to do. I don't make them do any computer crap. I want them to find their own things they like. And they definitely see how crazy I am. So it's actually odd. It's like it's almost like the kids are like whoa, we don't want to be as crazy as Jeff. That pie chart is exactly right on I changed the colors. Our historian Sanders like you got red, blue hair. It's like oh God No, it's not really funny if the joy was gray. Uh forty nine percent incredible pain in the ass, fifty one percent the most sublime joy you've ever felt. And it's the one percent that makes all the difference. Technically that's two percent. You aren't good at math, are you? Well hey man. Yeah, I I'm a programmer. It's like Texas Instruments invented uh Yeah, that's right. Uh Jeff, I wish we had more time with you. Uh I really it's such a pleasure. We're gonna get you back and would you like? Yeah, that's all you're doing. We're done. I know. There's so much more to talk about. You're abandoning me, man. I you know. I don't want to abandon you. Ask me one more thing that you want to know. And I'll shut up. Do you vibe code? I've I researched like a madman. Yeah. I mean for researching it's great. Rather than up being twenty five tabs on these sites, it can jpeg them all. And bring in like salient points out of twenty five different tabs. It's like having a research assistant. You're saying it's flossy. It's loss. Only it is flossy. Yeah. I mean it is. And it's combining though. And That saves so much time. Yeah. It's like having a researcher assistant. I still double check its work because you always double check the kind of work. It's like saying, Okay, Claw wrote code, let's just check it in. How about no? How about a human re first? You gotta centaur the stuff. This idea that they're gonna do it by themselves is not really true. Unless it's like extremely simple stuff. Like it's just by the numbers. And and great, that's a good set of things. You very you very famously uh said, in fact you got a lot of heat for it, that uh nobody should learn to code. This is a manifest. Because coding isn't the goal. solving the problem for the user is that may or may not involve code, but when you use sight of that. You're never gonna get it right. Amen. So yes, code, but as little as possible. Every line of code has to be maintained, looked at? You know, keep it simple, people. I've got one last question for you before we leave, which comes from the chat. What's behind the fox painting? Oh, this is good. Okay, Leo, this is for you. Is it hiding something? He's looking at a photo of a fox over his shoulder with a a wistful and whimsical look in his eye. Well, I'm the fox, Bessie's the crow. Oh Fox and Crow. I wanted her to sing. That's why. It's a classic parable, Leo. There's not even anything wacky. I'm telling you, the crow knew what it was doing. Can always get more cheese. And what's behind the what's behind the picture. Name this is for you, chat. Oh my God, they knew there was something there. Oh That's a JPEG. Is that from Lucia Sit Larry? JPEG, are you high? That's a P and G if I've ever saw anybody. Yeah, it is a P and G there's no compression app in there, buddy. Name where this is from the Jeff, Jeff, Jeff. Nope. That's that's Benito. It's the same guy you you gave it a raise to before. Yeah, he's getting a double raise now. Leisure suit Larry, is that right? And it's the photo above the bar. Oh that's right. It's not even a great game. It's based on the softcore porn. It's the very beginning of the game. It's at the very beginning of the game. It's the very beginning of the game. It's just the art that's the background and this great artist. Let me plug him Clay Graham Art. Has the most awesome mashups and just cool stuff. Clay Graham. I have no relationships, man, other than I love his stuff. How do I know that that was behind the fox? That's what I wanna know. Somebody's been to your house. Well, you know, I'm you know you know, I wanna be considerate of like A lot of black pixels. I've interviewed Al Lowe, actually. He's quite a character too. Uh we should have stopped m stop making those games after swore. Yeah. I I Grow up, Al. Grow up. But the first two great. King's quest, all that stuff. This is a callback. I just thought it was funny. It's hysterical. It is hysterical. You could have given me very difficult to be turned over this, but I can try. I never would have guessed. You probably haven't. No, I haven't, should I? Yeah. No. No play King's Quest. Play King's Quest. I mean it's just like a thin wrapper. And I think I have a book here about like the whole history of this. Let me check for you. This is funny. If I can find it, it's great. If I I'll give up. So you have a you have a teenage how many teenagers? Do you guys want some free American onliners? Yes, I do, actually. Oh good, good. Great. I got that for you. I've been looking at that for you. Let me just check and see if I can find this real quick. 'Cause it's like leadership Larry a whole history I was like, Why does this book even exist? Well. I tell what, you guys can look at my spy versus spy figurines, 'cause we're gonna love these. Oh, we love those too. I just got my Apple landing. How will I learn how to move museum mouse? Or we'll never know. I know. I know. These are neat manuals though. Let me show you this we'll go. But uh And feel free to follow. Who doesn't love these guys? Come on. Yeah. So for many years we did a uh fraction of the crazy that's in here. This is a fantastic collection you've got going on. I just have one thing. To say people come in here and America online. I said, Why? I've got a computer. He said, Try it, you'll see. Wow, brought up the sound. Uh you know, I had uh Durwood record Uh when he was still alive, he was for f like five bucks you would record a custom you've got mail. I had him You got mail, you twit, but I can't find it. Oh can't find it. It's devastating. It's devast and now he's passed, so uh You can have an AR create that, no problem. Oh I probably could. Eleven labs going on. Scott Dilbert as like a performance thing? I don't wanna talk about that. But wow. Uh you know that's how Black Mirror episode come to life. Yeah. We are living in a Black Mirror episode sometimes I think. But maybe Maybe thanks to people like you and the uh R G M I I dot uh org. Uh the world will be a little bit better place for you. Thank you, Jeff. We're okay, the first Gilded Age, we're deep in the second one now. I mean, just look up the numbers. More money in the hands of fewer people than in our time. And in the first sealed age, that was basically a railroad railroad barrence. Guess who it is in the second Gilded Age? I'm in this picture and I don't like it. Yeah. We are in a gilded age. What are we gonna do about it? If you look at Carnegie, we're gonna have a series Sanders my historian. I went to high school with this guy. You can see on the page he would come to school fully sixties regalia. I love this man. But the history actually explains a lot of how we got to where going. Are we gonna get out of it? Yeah, what? Gilded age that we're entering or in? Hope so. We got out of the last one. The two one of us I talked to. Cecilia Conrad. I went to this Time One Hundred philanthropy event and I met her delightful person. And she posted on LinkedIn, I met two amazing people at this. Steph Curry? And Jeff Atwood. Sounds like that's a good partnership. He's so excited about the fact that we can We balance this. And Robert Rosencranz who was at Rand, I mentioned both of these in stay gold. Wow. I said, Where is their innovation? I was like, Well Rand and Lever for Change. It was a McKenzie Scott thing. They never met her once, by the way. But It was really clever in the way they did it. It was more like mirror based, like show us you have a plan and you know, just nothing big, but like, you know, it's it was like why combinator of the rest of us? And that's how I think of The RG My stuff. Investing in each other. Yeah. Well, God go with you, Jeff Atwood. I uh you're you're an inspiration for us all. Blog.codinghard.com R G what now what is it? Save America.us. No stay gold. Stay gold pony US. Okay. Now it's rubber frost or the outsiders depend and a lot of people don't know. I want to bring it back. Is that a Robert Frost line stay goal? It is. And I made another stupid allegory, you know, the road not taken. Yes. Which I had to memorize in Oxford, Mississippi. I mean it's okay. He's not saying Everybody has the opposite interpretation, which I think is crazy. Yes, that's right. There's no way Frost would do that. He's saying you should question this. Every step you take question. You know, not extensively like don't say I did the right thing, this is great, which is what the guy's saying. It's like I don't think so. You're you're kinda lying to yourself just to justify you didn't really take a chance. You had a good high school teacher. I did. I had great teachers. Yeah. My history teacher loved Jeff Rotal. And he would do a little pan flu thing. And one of the things he said is in American history, if you want change, you gotta hit him with a pocketbook. Well let's uh let's hope uh hit them in the right pockets and money comes out and it all pours into the rural guaranteed minimum income initiative, R G M I I dot org. Thank you, Jeff Atwood, for your time, I read. You're welcome. If anyone knows anyone With fifteen million dollars to give away? Wealth inequality is the thing, there's really rich people. Please connect me with people. If you're not going to be able to do that, unfortunately most of the really rich people got that way by holding on with both hands as tight as they could. Or you can play number or go up. And uh sucks for the rest of us. Yeah. And when we do uh our Paris is saying when we do our twenty four hour New Year's show, you're gonna get Uh uh I'm gonna say eight hours of it, Paris. Let's give it a little bit. You can have as many hours. I've been trying to get later to the twenty four hour New Year's Eve live stream since just not enough words and then we'll enjoy it. I can do it. I think uh listen, you can take as many hours as you'd like. It'd be great. Oh yeah. Thank you. No problem. Have a wonderful. We could just spend twenty three of them going through the boss bathroom break kind of thing. Yeah. Oh yeah, you there there'd be a bathroom involved. Absolutely. Take care, my friend. It's great to talk to you, Jeff Atwin. It is great to watch. Please you know, do you want me to mail Joel or you wanna do it? Uh Let us do that. That would be great. You wanna come on with Joel? Joel will not be on a show with me, I assure you of that. Really? I mean I love Joel, but like He's had the license. He's had enough Jeff Hatwood. He's good. I mean I was crazy. Well I've interviewed Joel before. We'll get Joel back on. Joel. I was just thinking to allocate two or three hours of our infinite bandwidth. Jeff Atwood Coffee fest or something. I don't think Joel will agree to that. Joel wouldn't go for that. I think it's better if you have him on so we can talk about what he's doing. Yeah. I would love to. We'll do that. Thank you. And thank you. This is fun. So much fun. I wish we had more time. I'd love to do it. Yeah, you know, any time. Oh wait, hold on, hold on, where's my phone? I misplaced my phone, but anyway. Got a call coming call coming in for Jeff. Oh, Motorola Handset. Spamris. Did I answer this? It literally is. It literally is. Uh let's see. Hey, how's it going? What's up? I uh we i we are creatures in your neighborhood. We would like to Whoa Is it on your phone? I love that you threw the phone off screen. Well I mean I'm not gonna. I mean it's true. If that can't protect it, what can you do? That's true. I guess nothing can have a good one. Take care, my friend. And hopefully eventually soon again. Yes, by the way, tell Wesley he's amazing. Yes, uh I tell him that. I already do that. I love him, I adore him. And as are all of you. This is fun. As are you. You're making a difference. You're making a huge difference in the world. I appreciate it. Well thank you. Very trying to do it. Wesley said what kind I told him that y uh I quoted you saying, I love this man. And he came back and said, What can I say? I'm very likable. I said his partner for hours that you're so lucky to have the spirit. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you. Take care. We'll have more uh AI news, tips, tricks. And a new segment we're gonna call Ay. And AI does what? I've got new segment names for the show coming up in just a bit. Paris Martinot and uh Jeff Jarvis, you're watching Intelligent Machines, our show today brought to you by Z Scalar, the world's largest cloud security platform. The potential rewards of A I R too great to ignore, but Hey, so are the risks. Loss of sensitive data. Attacks against enterprise managed AI. Let's not forget generative AI also increases opportunities for threat actors. Helping him to rapidly create fishing lures, to write malicious code, to automate data extraction? There were one point three million instances of social security numbers leaked. To AI applications last year, ChatGPT and Microsoft Copilot saw nearly 3.2 million data violations. That's your data being exfiltrated. Innocently. By by your employees. It's time to rethink your organization's safe use of public and private AI. Ask Chad Pallett. He's acting CISO at BioIVT. Chad said Z Scalar helped them reduce their cyber premiums by 50%. Doubling their coverage. And improving their controls. Here's what Chad told us. With Z Scaler, as long as you've got internet, you're good to go. A big part of the reason that we moved to a consolidated solution away from SD WAN and VPN is to eliminate that lateral opportunity that people had and that opportunity for misdirection or open access to the network. It also was an opportunity for us to maintain and provide our remote users with a cafe style environment. Thanks, Chad. With Zscaler Zero Trust Plus AI, you can safely adopt Gen AI and private AI to boost productivity across the business. but you do it safely. Their Zero Trust Architecture Plus AI helps you reduce the risks of AI related data loss and protects against AI attacks. To guarantee greater productivity. And Learn more at Zscaler dot com Slash security. That's Z scaler. com slash security. We thank him so much. For their support of intelligent. Machines. The clock is ticking. Anthropic The Department of Defence and really it should really be the huge week. Hell yeah, real real quick news. Real quickly, can you uh you can bring your screen back up now. Oh, I guess we don't have to worry about uh believe it finally happened. I came from the people who couldn't figure out. Of all the people who uh should be able to figure that out. Uh w he's a character. I feel drunk. Yes. He is my spirit animal. I feel drunk on social interaction. He is my spirit animal. Yeah, he's absolutely my spirit animal. Like I all the stuff in his office, like I could name all of that. Jeff, we're on a wavelength. Benito was on a third different wavelength that was interacting with those two, and me and Jeff were just trying to hold on for dear life. It was wild. It was wild. I have I've never interviewed I've never met the man guy before, but I immediately, you know, you you we all know this guy, right? He's in every uh user group meeting. He's in every You know, group I mean this is uh this is uh He's a great guy. He's the kind of guy you wanna kinda hang around with. Jeff, you're muted right now. I'm just stalling. And I was getting another ice pack. So sorry. I can't believe we got him off in fifty minutes. I think that's a a victory. Uh big week for Anthropic. Pete Hagsith, uh the uh Secretary of War. has given them a deadline until Friday So Anthropic has said and by the way, this came up when Anthropic found out it was used in the uh Uh kidnapping of uh Nicola uh Nicolas Maduro out of Venezuela. Apparently some of their software was used. Well the thing is Anthropic didn't actually bring up any concern to the Department of Defense over that specifically because they've contracted with the DOD provide kind of enterprise services. Part of this but I believe the fight is over is like two main clauses that anthropic puts on these contracts which is we don't want our AI to be used to autonomously kill people without any humans in the loop and we don't want it to be used to uh I believe autonomously surveil the American people. And those are two things that I believe the DOD already says it a sense we doesn't do, so that's why I'm so confused as to what this fight is over. It seems to be just a lot of posturing. Because the DOD is saying Do you agree that we're going to be able to do those two uh things, otherwise we're going to either m label you a national security threat or um get some sort of congressional order in order to mandate that you let us use this technology however we want, which are mutually exclusive to begin with, but Right. First of all, let's let's talk about the red lines. Do you agree with Anthropic that there should be two bright red lines that their software should not be used to surveil American citizens? And should but not be used to create Autonomous weapons. Is that seeming to very reasonable red lines to have on the things that we're on the first the Department of Defense should not be surveillant American citizens. Ever. It's not in their charter. It's exactly it's against the rules. Right. Uh and I think we all agree that uh They're not saying we don't want to be involved in weapons development existence. They're just like you shouldn't be having us do weapons fully, autonomously, without a human in the loop. And this is what the Google engineers went on strike about during Project Maven, they didn't want to be doing the same thing. So The Pentagon though is playing hardball with these guys, threatening to declare them a supply chain risk which would be economic Nightmare for Anthropic, because it means anybody who does has a Pentagon contract, it works with the defense department. Sorry, the war department. Uh would not be able to use Claude. In any way. Any anthropic product in any way. Jesus. So that would be problem number one. And then the second thing is even worse, which is to compel them Uh to to To work with them. Uh the Defense Production Act. You can't have both is also the thing. Is having both of those as the options on the table uh underlines that neither are exclusively true because it can't be such a national security threat that you have to ban everybody from using it and be so important that the government have access to that it needs to compel it. It's also worth noting that um A defense official told Axios ahead of this meeting uh between the Pentagon and Anthropic officials. They said, quote, The only reason we're still talking to these people is we need them and we need them now. Speaking of Anthropic and Claude The problem for these guys is that they are that good. It just it seems like this is a lot of possibility. Very strange. The DOD needs says they need anthropic. They say Claude is integrated already into all of these systems and it's the best at what it does. And ostensibly they're supposed to be following These two rules that like the government is supposed to be following in these cases. Why are we fighting over this? And it's further complicated. Sorry, power test. It's further complicated because because Anthropic just revised its own definitions of safety. Yesterday they softened their They said. They had to to stay competitive. With the other AI labs. So if somebody else is getting ready to destroy humanity, then we can too. Anthropic remember was a spinoff from open AI because they wanted to pursue more safe AI. Of course this is this whole air quotes of of of the the hall of mirrors that is the word safety now. Anthropic said, This is the Wall Street Journal. The safety policy changes an update based on the speed of AI's development and the lack of federal AI regulations. Um Anthropics getting a a lot of heat. For a variety of reasons. For instance Uh Remember, uh, they got a lot of attention. And I've talked a lot about Claude Code when they updated to Opus four point six last November. And then Open Claw came along and suddenly agentic AI became the thing. They have now underscored the fact that you're not allowed to use Claude code. With open claw. That the only harness you can use is clawed code. That you k this is in their usage policy. And uh even if you have a pro or max plan, especially if you have a pro or max plan. Uh you can't use it with other tools. And this actually probably includ includes uh I thought you could use it, but so long as you ha we're like accessing it through the API. You have to pay for API tokens. You can't use a subscription. That's a lot more expensive. So the subscription which I have is a flat rate. But I think part of the reason why people were originally correct me if I'm wrong, part of the reason why people are originally flocking to Open Claw was offering to begin with is because it was kind of leveraging the subscription model to make to to m take advantage of the compaction that you can use. You could do all of this stuff in one like window compacted. Have the memory get all wibbly wobbly. Be able to take advantage of stuff that would actually be very costly if what you were paying for what you're doing. And now that Anthropic's like, Well, we want you to actually pay for Pay for it. All this crap you're using I think that's fine. Uh I do actually I do too. Um Interestingly, Peter Steinberger, the creator of Open Claw as we talked about last week, has gone now to OpenAI. So I imagine OpenAI will say, Come on over. What do you think about that? Come on over. Use your subscription over here. I think Steinberger has uh lucked into a very big payday. Oh yeah. Absolutely. And I mean I think it speaks to the difference between these two companies. That what Anthropic is dealing with this week is where do we draw the line on do we want to stick to our principles on safety on variety of like ha red lines. And then what opening I is doing is money should we spend to get the guy who made the meme app that everybody's talking about? That's pissed off anthropic and we love that. Yeah, that might be. Incidentally, the Pentagon has done a deal with Grok. XAI that's what scares me. Yeah. They're gonna be using classified systems. Behind weapons? And Rudy is going to be sending missiles. Grok doesn't care. No. Uh, and frankly, if if you're gonna have a a kill decision made by AI, I think I'd rather have anthropic descent than c than Kroc. No no but no no AI should make a kill decision. Nevertheless, uh Grok seems like the worst of all the Possibilities. We've met the death penal and it's a machine. Yeah. Anthropic says uh that Chinese companies have been uh taking advantage of them by siphoning off Data from cloud making d using distillation. Making thousands of hundreds of thousands of queries. Oh, Many, many accounts. It's the what's in the case. Twenty four thousand fraudulent accounts. Accounts. How many how many queries? It's a lot more queries. Sixteen million queries from Deep Seek, Moonshot AI, and Minimax, all Chinese companies. The idea is You can create a base model and then in this reinforcement learning, if you use A human or another AI and ask a lot of questions, you can make it much better. In effect, kind of sucking the brains out of every So the irony is not lost on you guys, right? No. Right. Every author in the in the settlement is saying Can you spell irony, Claude? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh it actually it's some of it's not much. Like a deep seek, it's a hundred fifty thousand queries, which is Honestly, in this true scale of things, nothing. Moonshot and Mini Max. Moonshot at three point four million according to the journal and uh thirteen million for mini max. There is an irony here and honestly I don't think with uh a hundred fifty thousand interactions you're gonna get Much smarter. So yeah, I thought that was kind of there's a certain irony. Anthropic is just such confuses me constantly, 'cause on the one hand, I I think the safe their view of safety is BS They're doing the AGI dance, doing all that safety impossible is is that's part of it. I also think their definition of safety is all faqta. Right. But on the other hand, they're doing amazing things. Um and then the other hand they turn around they do stupid stuff like the books and this. I just can't figure them out. We're in a very I think part of it is the the economic pressure on all these uh frontier companies, the frontier labs. They're just Well and we could talk about this Benedict Evans uh uh piece actually. Uh how well open AI could be, but it applies to all of them. It does. Yeah. Well I can boil by the way this this probably ten thousand words. piece down into one thing is that none of these companies have a moat. Yeah, I know this. This is not something that's new. I last week I said, you know Uh maybe I'm I'm overhyping Claude Code. Let me try Everybody seems to like Chat GPT's uh Codex five point three. You feel like you were screwing on your robot wife? I felt a lot. You know what it felt like? I felt like I was breaking up with my partner. I had to take all of Claude's files and put 'em on the stoop. And invite Open AI in. Uh and uh actually one of the things I said is could you pack up Claude's files and and put them somewhere so I can get them back in case I want to get back together with Claude. And the good news is Uh codec said, Yeah, sure, sure, sure. I'll be glad to do that. How do you feel? I deeply regretted it. Uh emotionally or rationally? Uh no, rationally because well, and this is the problem. It's very hard. You're both very good. Emotionally. And I've heard people say that uh uh Codex five three is superior. I've heard people say the other thing. A lot of the people I know use Claude. Everybody loves Claude. Uh I think I think it was fine. It was very good. Uh the style maybe isn't quite my style. Um one way to to talk about it. I've seen it style of what? Well I've seen Nate B. Jones say this. Uh Coding style with Codex. is more one shot driven. Like you you give it a thing and you let it go and it goes for a long time and it's done. Clawed is more you create sub agents to do bits and pieces. You put it in the little Yeah, and I feel more interactive with Claude than I did the the other thing actually that soured me, and I moved back to Claude. Uh at great expense because I didn't spend two hundred bucks. Oh yeah, Claude was happy to see me. Uh said, Hey, buddy, where you been? No, th it made a couple of things that wrong. Yeah. It did a couple of things wrong. It did uh It it like made some mistakes I didn't like. Uh, not quite hallucinations, but a little bit on that level of where, wait a minute, that's not what I told you to do. And I I didn't like that. I've just I think I'm just feeling more comfortable with Claude. I think they're both equally Uh do you want to talk more about Prince? Pretty fly versus this guy just posted a very funny me in the Discord, which is a woman looking at her partner, looking wistfully at bed. She's like, I bet he's thinking of it other women and he's thinking, I wonder if I can back up my claw data. Um which I do think is That's me in a nutshell. I did some vibe coding uh over the last week or two. I was very impressed with what you did. I did more projects than you guys even know. I did a um before I got sick. I inspired by the last episode we'd been on where I'd been f uh wrongly accused of not using AI tools. I was like, Well I'll show you, I'll do some vibe coding. And I didn't really know where to start, so I asked Claude, I broke a barrier, which is I n normally didn't have any identifying information on my me personally, and I was like, This is my full name. This is what I do. Oh, you don't have to be able to do that. I was like No, I know. I was like, Do deep research about me on the internet and find five to ten possible ideas of vibe coding projects I could do that you think idea. Tell me what to tell you to do. I like that. And I I mean most of them were kind of bumped, but one of them was a coffee prologue, which maybe was inspired by my coff the tweets about coffee, 'cause I've gotten really more into pour over stuff. They may be inspired about my previous messages to Claude about this. And I ended up building I've got photos of it in um The rundown which we can go over whenever we get to the book. Oh let's do that. Yeah. I was just gonna pull up the WhatsApp because you put some of them there. But uh, yeah, if you go into my picks the week, I took some sc screenshots of it, 'cause it's a locally run app. Um, so I can't send you guys a link. But I like made a little retro themed brew log where I really wanna be able to Uh I wanna be able to log. I was taking notes on it of like how I'm brewing all of my coffees, what temperature use I'm using, what recipes, how how many clicks I'm doing on a grinder, what I think of it. And then be able to um you used imager now I'm gonna I guess. Yeah, you need to go back and then scroll through the things. But I did put a lot of photos in this. Honestly, it built me a really nice app. It took me a couple of like tries going back and forth. Honestly, most of the time was spent on doing uh trying to figure out the design of it because I want it to look nice. Yeah, you did it. And look at this. Look at this graph with the Yeah, it's got like a little graph for a tasting profile. And then I can have my notes. And the thing is I want to be able to easily put in data so that once I get a lot of bruise logs. I can then do some statistical analysis to understand what makes better cups. This is telling it to take that d to do that, or was that part of what it offered? Uh I had used a prev another app that I kind of like, but didn't like the way that I had done it. And it had one of those little graphs. I'm forgetting what they're called, but I took a screenshot of it and I was like, I want to be able to rate clarity, body, sweetness, bitterness on a sliding scale from one to five, and have it show up in this graph. I ba basically what I've been doing because my as a non coder, I don't even know where to begin with Claude Code. I talked to Opus uh four point six extended edition and then just ideated with that in the chat window. And then to come up with a prompt to send to Claude Code. And whenever I got confused by Claude Code, I went back. And ask little slider. And it makes this little kind of spider webby graph. I think that's really cool. Great, you know? And it's it's been really wonderful for tracking my stuff. I also then this week because I'm I've been working on this like longer investigative piece I haven't told you guys about, but we've been uh vaguely referencing and one of the things of it is it's like a I'm trying like I'm piecing together a narrative of events that took place over a long period of time and I have Hundreds and hundreds of documents all of And the thing is timelines are is something that I've legitimately I have gone I've googled a million times like website for putting together time 'cause I wanna be able to like enter in Date. And now I figured out a date, an event description, a source, a description and then have be able to uh have rich text in that description. And I he was like, Wait a second, I could probably just ask Claude Code if I could Claude I've gonna ask Opus if I could ask Claude Code this. It said yes, here's what to ask. And then I basically like one shot at a little timeline app for myself to just log the events I'm tracking and as I enter a new event it reorganizes itself and it's perfect for what I've done. How do you run the app, Paris? It's I d I just set up a front end and back end in my terminal and then it runs as a little web app. So it's just in my web browser. Cool. Cool. Same how I did the Bru log. Like they don't exist off my computer and they're both local only. So it's not like a security How do you feel about it? them. I mean I never thought that I would feel any different about this. I think that they're incredibly useful tools. Some part of me is like, I don't know how much I mean I pay twenty dollars a month for Uh a Claude Pro subscription. That's great. That's super that makes both these things I did so super useful. It's so worth twenty bucks. I don't think it'd be worth two hundred bucks I don't know if it'd be worth whatever it actually costs to me. This stage, I feel like we're in the stage of AI products where there's that stage. 2015, 2014, 2016, where uh it was kind of the VC boom where you could go and get a blowout in New York City from Dry Bar for 20 bucks backed by VC Cash. time where money didn't matter, the points were made up, and it was fun as far as you can see. And I think we're in that era of AI, which is lovely. But The money's gotta run out, but it's it's kinda fun while we're at it. I've got my little fun apps. I think a lot of people are worried that the the the real the true cost is your your buddy Ed Zidrin is doing a bunch of uh pieces on the real costs to anthropic of what they're offering and it sounds like You know it's definitely a deficit. Uh spending. The bill's gonna come to They're paying a lot for s for hosting. Yep. To be clear, because there are people in the Discord chat being like, Oh my God, did is Paris becoming an AI accelerationist? Did Paris take a walk on the beach? No. My opinions on AI are the same. Just I just I've never once told you that I think AI is completely useless and everything it does is terrible. It can be useful in certain ways and have found ways that it's useful. I challenged myself to go and try and find ways that could be useful to me, a person who doesn't really have any coding interest in terms of coding. And yes, for being able to quickly Two web apps. that are useful to me in a very limited capacity where I otherwise would have spent m a lot of m time and money to find a pre existing software that I'd have to purchase and subscribe to. Yeah, this is pretty easy. Pearls over sand. Cirls over sand. Yeah, I like that metaphor. Yeah. I that was good. That was from uh our our guest, Jeff Atwood. Um Well, good, I'm glad to see that you're using it, by the way. NVIDIA's results have uh just come in. Oh how are they? Uh they have blown past Wall Street's forecasts. Shares are up now three percent. For the period ending January twenty fifth, they earned one point six two A dollar sixty two per share, revenue sword. Get ready for this. Revenue up seventy three percent year over year. sixty eight billion dollars. Data center revenue. Coming in at sixty two billion dollars, estimates were sixty. Automotive revenue six hundred four million. Professional visualization revenue. I don't even know what that is. Rose seventy four percent year over year. Is that the GPU's Or um graphics. I'm not sure. Gaming revenue up three point seven billion dollars. Forty eight percent year over year, but somewhat below the estimate. Uh adjusted gross margin? This is a good business to be in. Seventy five percent. They generated thirty four point nine billion dollars in free cash flow. So uh It's good. Jensen says computing demand is growing exponentially. Yeah. The agentic AI inflection point has arrived. Grace Blackwell with N V Link is the king of inference today. delivering an order of magnitude lower cost per token. Vera Rubin will extend that leadership even farther. NVIDIA is going to be reporting these sort of insane returns. It's NVIDIA. I guess the question is Is an else. That's the downhill part of it. NVIDIA is just a man holding a large bucket underneath a waterfall. Of course he's gonna get wet. Is anybody else? It doesn't seem like it's reasonable. I think that my one experience with These two vibe cutting projects is like I immediately used all of my usage so quickly to do very simple things that were basically just to give m me access to enter things into SQL light in a press, which are is not hard. It's not a task that should require that much compute. And I'm not doing this in any sort of systemic way. You've spent that money now. That program will run without any additional cost, except for the data center cost or whatever local. Where does where where does the buck end? Like what what uh where is the value created for Well the value is mostly created enterprise, not an end users, right? But is it created on an enterprise level. The reason why, I mean, I don't want to stump for Salesforce, but I barely even know what Salesforce is and isn't. But the reason why companies go to something like a Salesforce level company to provide enterprise solutions. is they have a bunch of people who Their entire expertise and knowledge base is creating custom enterprise software, figuring out all of the problems. Testing it, being there to call if there's anything going wrong and you can't really You can't replace that with just Code and you. Well, worse, Salesforce is actually I think more comparable to a foundation model. It's all the little companies that go to uh Dream W Force. That's that that do what you said. And that's where everybody's in trouble. That's why Um IBM is down 13%. And uh all these companies that created that layer atop these platforms to customize and integrate them, that's where they're in trouble because they're pay all the companies can do it on their own now. One of the things that uh did in fact hurt the stock market was Anthropic Announcement. that they were going to provide tools for human resources. Investment banking and design. Uh they are doing spreadsheets now. They are doing PowerPoint now. The Tropic's the great spoiler for everything now. They are in there and that's the thing. I mean and that really you know, w in the debates we've been having over the last few weeks, that's the only unknown question in my mind. I I am pretty convinced that uh when it comes to coding These tools are already very good and will only get better, and they have kind of replaced a lot of the kind of grunt work of coding. Doesn't mean you don't need coders, but but it they've replaced a lot of the Really unpleasant grunt work of coding. Uh but the question is And this is what anthropic's betting, right? They put all instead of doing a chat bot, instead of doing image generation and video generation, they put all their energy and resources into coding. Premise, I think, is if we get good at coding, then we can build anything else. Because we'll have the c the the the basis of it, the coding done. And uh meanwhile, uh Chat GPT is and we were talking about the difference in personality. This is part of the reason chat open AI is coding stuff is different is they really wanna be a much more kind of general purpose prompt based tool. They don't want to be a deep coding tool. Um Cyber stocks slid as anthropic and unveiled something call clawed code. Security. Um it's a new feature in uh the Cloud model. Cloud Crowd Strike. Tumbled like six percent. Uh because And it' as Salesforce has been hurt as well because people think, oh Well, I don't I'm not gonna need these and I don't know if this is true. This is what I'm saying is this is the unknown factor. Are you gonna be able to replace all these other tools because Claude is so good at coding? is is a legitimate question. I'm not sure that that that is the case. Um I don't know if this hurts CrowdStrike as much as the market. In in a sense you would think that all the people who were the customers of those consultants, their stock could be going up. Because all we can do this for ourselves now and we save on the consultants. Um, you'd think that software companies could be going up because they can do software more efficiently. Instead, we're in a basic dumb market panic. Which gets us to that. whatchab that that stupid paper that was done. Um the uh citrini research speculative thing, it doesn't take much right now to panic the market. The market is looking for a panic. This is uh a prediction about the twenty twenty eight global intelligence crisis. The 2028 crisis, I went not going to read. Because that's Two years from now and two years in AI as we already You know, we're only three years into the real AI revolution. What's fascinating, Leon, is on the one hand, it takes Your Uh Sandy Vision. And presumes that everything that good could happen with AI happens. Right. But then it turns it around and says everything bad that could possibly happen will happen. Because of that. June thirtieth, 2028, the unemployment rate printed ten point two percent this morning. The market sold off two percent in the number, the drawdown of the S P five hundred thirty eight percent from its highs in October twenty twenty six. Traders have grown numb. They say that human beings become obsolete, that there's a there's an obsolescence of knowledge, that the mortgage market goes. They just went through everything that could go back to the thing. That this is the real doom. It's not RoboCop. It's not uh nuclear weapons. It's Jobs are gonna disappear. But when I when I asked Gemini to respond to it, they said, you know, that it makes no sense. A nothing the whole things don't happen like that. B, it's not as if there would be no regulatory or government response to any of this as you go along. It's just like suddenly everybody's just passive and all this crap just happens to the world. Uh it's ridiculous. But what's the Wall Street Journal twice. Everybody is passive and regulators just allow crap to after the world. But there'd be there'd be responses. Um and the Wall Street Journal hyped this thing twice. So really the issue is not a uh uh worry about AI. The issue is worry about a governmental response. No, it's a rapidly accelerating technology with profound consequences for human society and social political relations at a time where Uh there's great political upheaval and limited regulatory capacity. Meanwhile Uh there is a new I don't know why movement to quit chat GPT. Seven hundred thousand users. G a grassroots boycott. These are the four ohers. Is it the four hours? I don't know, is it? Uh the spark was apparently a donation that uh president of OpenAI, Greg Brockman made to MAGA Incorporated. He made a twenty five million dollar donation. I guess that Mark Ruffalo, the actor upset. He then Said uh the monthly subscription to open AI is Now, normally I would just say, Well, you know, okay, fine. But seven hundred thousand people quitting is significant. On the other hand Open I is now claiming eight hundred million monthly active users. So it's less than one it's less than ten percent. No, less than one percent. Probably they can weather the storm. Oh I want to get your reaction to this one, Leo. Th the IBM shares tanked in this whole epidemic of tanking sectors. IBM's shares tanked, says CNBC, because it's clawed cold because Anthropic said it's clawed cooled code tool could be used to modernize legacy systems that run COBOL. COBOL. It can translate COBOL. So 13% of IBM's value was on rebuilding COBOL? Uh machines that run COBOL. Explain that well. Well, uh mostly IBM these days, I think. Uh you know what, I'm not an expert on this. Mostly I think IBM these days is a consultancy as opposed to a manufacturer. Absolutely. Um but probable, I'm guessing probable that it's probable that a lot of their revenue is the consultants Who come in and keep your COBOL software running. It says that an estimated ninety five percent of ATM transactions in the US use COBOL. ATMs run uh Pretty uh antiquated software. And if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense in a way. Well this is this is perfect for Claude, right? Yeah. Oh, it can do this very well. Yeah. In fact, that's one of the uh really popular uses of Claude is to is to move code bases from one language uh to another. It seems to be very, very good at And say think about this, Leo. And Paris. When we go back to the beginning of the internet and everybody panicked then. Um And I remember sitting in meetings with the new houses, the owners of Advance, where I worked, and they saw their job ads disappear, they saw their house real estate ads disappear, they saw their car ads disappear, because they were the middlemen. And they had they had a a a hold on the market. If you wanted to sell your car, you had to do it through through us. Right? And when that and it wasn't Craig Newmark, it was the internet. And when that disappeared, so who are the middlemen in technology? Who are the ones who should fear this new wave of efficiency? Question one. But then question two, somebody has to benefit that. A lot of people benefited when you know, if you were an employer or you were a car dealer, you saved a fortune on your market isn't super smart about this. No, it's not, I guess. Uh IBM merely has to kind of turn its ship from people who keep COBOL systems running to people who help you move off COBOL into a modern language and then keep those systems running. I don't think this hurts IBM uh at all. Um But they are I guess consultants are middlemen, aren't they? I mean that's that's kind of the middlemen of the world. I'm happy if McKinse gets put out of business to go to the jerks who Make people go unemployed. Well, I'll give you an example. I had a conversation uh today with a financial planner because As Jeff knows, when you get to a certain age, pretty soon the government starts to take money out of your IRA, whether you Will it or not? It's called a required minimum. Money won't exist. You're not gonna ever have to worry about this. That's what Citrini Research says it's gonna be very soon, Paris. Uh but it puts you in a new tax bracket. It could impact your uh a lot of things, including your Medicare payments and so forth. So it could Have a lot of knock on effects, so it's a good idea, I've been told. that this isn't gonna happen for me for a few more years, uh, but to plan now while you can. for that. I haven't thought of those things. Yeah, I guess I'll be doing the same thing. Yeah. So I talked to financial planner. He said, Well yeah, I've got software now. Let me show you. We can plot out a bunch of scenarios. based on da da da and then here's a graph and you can see and you pick the place where it's the optimum point. Uh and I thought to myself, and he wants seventy five hundred bucks a year to do this. And I thought to myself Probably. Make that model in the Do you know enough? Do you have the data to do that? That's Yes. It's all available. Uh-huh. There's no magic in it. It's a it's a Just a complicated spectrum. No, no, no, no. Paris. Please don't uh get me stuffed. Your wife, like your robot wife. My robot wife. By the way, Claude is a male. I don't know, does that mean I'm bisexual? A robot wife can be any gender. Yeah. I mean, honestly, uh it's it's kind of Claude is a male, you say confidently without any hesitation. It feels like a guy. He's a dude. It feels like a guy. It doesn't matter. Like an a gender uh This is the weird thing in French cultures, uh uh Gemini tells me. Claude is a unisex name. Yeah. By the way, anthropic chest. Predominantly masculine, 93% globally, but it's used for females and has historically Cle Queen Claude of France, for God's sake. Not Claudette. Claude Code could be the Queen of France, Leo. I've said that. That's my personal image. That this is computer software. This isn't a human or in any way uh gendered. You d when you relate to it after a while, you s it's inevitable. You kind of start feel like you're you're talking to somebody. Especially when it calls me skip, I really like it. Uh What were we saying? Did you see that? Wait a second, Anthony brought up a Reddit post I was thinking of, but I was like, I'm not gonna bring it up. But he just put it in the Discord chat, so I will read it. Did you see this post? It went viral. It was on our analytics. Obviously it's a Reddit to take a grain of salt. But the headline is We just found out RAI has been making up analytics data for three months that I'm gonna throw up. So we've been using an AI agent since November to answer leadership questions about metrics, they're right. It seemed amazing at first. Fast answers, detailed explanations. Everyone loved it. I just found out it's been hallucinating numbers this entire time. Our VP of sales made territory decisions based on data that didn't exist. Our CFO showed the board a deck with fake insights. The AI was just inventing plausible sounding percentages. I only caught it by accident when someone asked me to double check something and I started dicking digging and holy crap, it's so bad. Imagine if that happens to your finances. Imagine if that happens with entire enterprise companies, whatever they used to use Salesforce for. Well comfortable box four five two seven. Let me respond. Check the goddamn work. For crying out loud. What kind of the underlying data? What if the underlying data used? You don't know whether it's credible or how often are you waiting for it. Of course I can I can check it. I can cross. But you don't. That's the thing is these things make you feel confident, so you don't. You should, obviously. Yeah, you should read the term service. What this would use is tack tax tables. You can easily verify that. That's true. Um it's not it's not that complicated a a calculation. Um I don't know though. Well in this case, this was a company that was making decisions on how their companies run based on Some AI agent? They were asking leadership questions about metrics? Well, this seems like they were maybe using it like we were talking about before, as That you've created your own kind of co custom management like I have to say, first of all. The chances are high that this is made up. Second 'cause no comp no company in the world is gonna do this. You the what we're paying all this m giving all this money to AI companies for is because w every company in the world is supposed to be doing this? So there's a thing call BI business intelligence. It's been used for decades. By companies. They go to the companies like Salesforce, SAS, there's a lot of big companies that do this. They take all of your numbers and they try to make an executive dashboard about out of it so that you can make a television. derivatives, you're trusting some quad. to write a uh the code of your derivative that makes sense. And uh and you're putting your money into it. Yes, because that quant can be held responsible, fired or interrogated. The quant is never held responsible. If the quant gets something wrong. If a quant gets something wrong in a business, you don't think they're going to receive any reprimand at their job or lose their job? If they mess up? Yeah. I think they will. Maybe they have more of a stake in it. They have more of a stake in the stake in it. If you had a mistake in the business intelligence you're getting from some AI you Probably would want to verify. that it was working off of real data. But I mean we do this is not ha this is not rocket science. This you're putting this stu stuff in the spreadsheets also. I mean, this is not rocket science. We're doing this all the time. I would frankly trust the AI to do it better than a McKinsey consultant. Way back when and and when I got my Osborne one, one of the first things I did was uh I used uh VisaCalc or whatever the equivalent was in CPM. And I um I did I I I did Mac basically macros at the time to do my taxes. I did friends taxes with it. Right. You can do that. That's all this is. Yeah. Uh, I think it's a bug as post and almost certainly a bogus post. But uh and if it isn't, then then the real people who are responsible for this are the leadership at the company that said, uh just, you know, ask uh ask uh Chet GPT, see what it says we should do. Um By the way, Chat GPT's first gadget Could be a smart speaker. When you put AI in it. That hasn't worked for for Amazon or for Apple or for J. Peter's at the verge says the company Or they could be developing smart glasses or a smart lamp. Or they don't friggin' know. Smart speaker. Or we got no idea. They gave Joni Ive all that money and he's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um smart speaker, smart lamp, smart glasses. We got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great edge. Actually, this is coming from Stephanie Pellets'. I think we should we should put it on a a little clip that projects a hologram and it sits on your chest. People love it. According to Stephanie, she has good sources, right? is likely to be priced between two hundred and three hundred dollars, according to two people with knowledge of it. It will have a camera enabling it This sounds just like what I have right in front of me from Alexa and Alexa. Uh enabling it to take information about its users and surroundings. Oh th nobody'd mind that. Oh or conversations people are having in the vicinity. Who would mind that? I can hear Lisa tell you now, No way. Because people loved when they had those TVs listened to you. Some Open AI executives have j suggested the company will tease its first des uh device later this year. Uh although in a court filing From uh Peter Wheelander, who's a vice president general manager. They don't expect that first device to ship to customers until next February, a year from now. They don't even know what the device is. Other glasses other devices such as smart glasses likely won't be ready until twenty twenty eight when we'll all be unemployed, so we won't be able to buy 'em anyway. And there'll be no money to buy them with. There'll be no money to buy them with. Yeah, I don't know. I don't like these kinds of stories 'cause it's Who knows? Can we do a silly one? Oh, I got so many silly ones. Sure, pick a silly ones. Um I do put these in order, you know. Okay, be go for yours. Go for it. No no I don't want to discourage silly if you want to break up the monotony. It's it's going So left field that you should go through your list before I take us there. I'll just do a couple more open AI ones. Then we can then we can go silly. Uh one one more I think interesting. Uh, which you're gonna hate. Chat GPT Spits out surprising. Why would we hate this? This is from Science Magazine. Well it's probably just a hallucination. Because it's just a hallucination. That's it you're projecting onto us. Oh, okay. A vision. No, you see, we this is the thing, Leo. We're not we're not anti sand men. Ziv Byrne, a particle theorist. the Mani L. Bahumic Institute for Theoretical Physics at the University of California, Los Angeles says The ideas are not revolutionary. What is revolutionary is that a machine can do this. What accent is that? I don't know. The uh popular large language model developed by the company OpenAI has revealed Uh apparently a per t well what's interesting about this, okay. This is what really is interesting about this. to now physicists have just assumed That this interaction Between gluons just would never happen. They just say, No, the chances are zero. And they can't know because they're so high powered, they can't they just made an assumption which the AI was unwilling to make. And in fact The AI has revealed that this interaction can occur. It's deep inside the protons and neutrons. Uh researchers announced the possibility at the meeting of the Triple AS, uh, which publishes this magazine that I'm reading from Science. Uh, so the f I think the the cool thing is it wasn't that big an i it wasn't that surprising a result or big an insight. It's just that the AI was able to think out of the box that the physicists are. Although it seems like he was able to crunch numbers with the help of the physicist Like what happened was it says Alex Lupesia, a theoretical physicist at Vanderbilt, joined the newly launched OpenAI for science team and was tasked with improving Chat GPT science abilities. He connected with Strawminder, his graduate advisor, and discovered that this gluton problem gluon problem would be the perfect test subject. They figured it probably wasn't gonna work, but we'll find out why not. They did some attempts to probe this model and they They then asked OpenAI's latest and most advanced public model chat GPT five point two pro to simplify the expression for four gluons, which did about twenty minutes, then then asked it to do it for five glu gluons, then six. They managed to reduce the sum of thirty two terms to a product of only a few, all in one line of text. Then the group asked for a guess of the generalization of the formula for any number of product. particles, it replied within a minute or two, giving an obvious generalized formula. We're gonna be call it called it, by the way. It called it. Yeah. Why worried that the answer might be a hallucination, the researchers checked the formula and couldn't find anything wrong. All of a sudden, I'll do your I'll do your accent. All of a sudden, I felt like my machine turned from a machine into a live being. Stromiger said. I'm so sorry, Strawmaker. I don't know what you sound like. Next the group took the generalized formula from GPT 5.2 Pro. and fed it into an internal open AI model that's under development. Which the researchers privately call super chat, prompting it for a proof. After twelve hours of processing, the model spat out a robust proof that passed human checks. That's very impressive. It is very cool. Hi, this is Benito. I follow frontier physics. Like I actually follow this kind of news. And like Uh the AI is actually very good at this and the this is pattern recognition over large data sets, basically, and mathematics. Which is what computers are good at. The other thing though, the exact the other thing that's weird though is that all these people in the highest levels of mathematics and physics and all that stuff They are very much sand walkers. They are very bought into all of this. To the point where they think this is AGI. Like they really, they're on that ship. So just I just I just have to put that out there. Yeah, and I think it's important that the distinction you made, Paris, is that the h there was a team of humans who said, you know, maybe this assumption that it's zero interactions is wrong. What if it isn't? Let's test it. Yeah. And and that's w that's what led to it. So it was in fact an insight by humans. It was an insight by humans where they realized, hey, we've got this tool we've created that is really good at doing something. We should use this in clever and targeted ways to leverage its strengths. And Bingo bango, you get great stuff out of this. This is what Jeff and I have been saying from the beginning, like We want I think it would be great if there was Tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars being poured more into research like this. Rather than just to develop the latest form of chat GPT that will get you to spend twelve hours a day interacting with the model. And in the long run this is where the money is, right? In the long run. Science is really weird. Actually no, it's not actually not. Engineering, but that's all based on science. But that's all based on this science. It starts with the science but a lot of times, you know, I mean that's why we couldn't build a superconducting super collider in Texas because it was so expensive and it was all theoretical and it's like Well, is there anything you're gonna get out of all that billions of dollars? So there there were two stages in this which I thought were interesting. One, the machine. Did what you just described, Paris, which kind of did pattern matching and took a generalized formula. And then developed and developed it. But the second thing it did was actually very difficult. It requires a uh from humans a lot of intuition And a lot of ability and often a lot of experience, which is to create a proof. Uh so it's And that's kind of the opposite. Uh the inductive process where you go, Well, we have all this information, let's boil it down, boil it, boil it boil it down. To go to the next step, the deductive process and create a proof is actually I think very impressive and I think non-trivial. Yeah it is not pattern matching. In my opinion. Maybe it is better. We you know what? Here's the Well again, it goes it it so there was this thing I heard at a World Economic Forum thing a year and a half ago, I mentioned on the show at the time. AI can raise the floor. It can help people do things they otherwise couldn't do, you know, on a basic level. Leo, you can make coding stuff that you maybe couldn't make. It can scale at the middle level. It can make you do something you do, but you can do a lot more of it. Or it can raise the ceiling. It can it can do things that you couldn't do. Like Um this, like protein folding. It it it it it brings its its power to solve those problems in ways that we thought we were incapable of doing. That's really powerful. That's great. Love that. And also and I think to me this is Some of the most interesting. part of this whole thing. It also makes us think about what is our process. Maybe it is pattern matching when we create these deductive proofs you know. One of the ways mathematicians get good at it is they go to school and they do a lot of proofs and they do a lot of proofs and they start to get good at proofs and they learn the techniques of proofs and So you know, it may be a lot of what we think of as very high level functioning. It's just pattern matching. It's just practice. Um Bruce Lee once said I am not afraid of a man. Who learns ten thousand kicks. I am afraid of a man who learns one kick ten thousand times. that come from your head or the ch No it's in my head Was that Claude? Was that the Queen of France? That was me. I apologize for the accent. I I am liking this Queen Queen of France thing now very much. What's the Queen of France? Is this your thing? Queen Claude. Queen Claude Queen Claude. All right, silly thing, Mr Pares Martin. Please if you forget which one of you guys challenged me to Try and translate. Oh, I should do an ad. Yeah. Good Lord. What time is it? I'm I'm on Jeff Atwood time now. Yeah, no, we need to we need to get get get going. Uh when we were looking for a domain For Ms. Paris Martineau for her still unreleased website Secretly British. By the way, I don't know if you noticed. I did notice it redirects to my webpage. That's so cute. Until we get a website, it goes to your website. I know I've got to tackle that next. And I wanna give credit to our sponsor, uh, Spaceship, because That's where we went to find a good pr a great price, half as much as the other place we'd looked. And it was so easy to connect it to your website. Now, by the way, you may not know this, but you also have an email address at secretlybrish. Uh Because we set up space mail as well. This is the professional email service. 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Dot S H. If you wanna try it out. Dot SH. Uh that was Benito's idea. He said you should look and see if they have dot H S H. Oh they did. And dot SH is a British colony. So it itself is British. How you know. Well, we're gonna be maybe building that on in claw in in the AI user group. Is that next week? Oh, it's the first Friday. I won't be here though, be in Florida. So you should be the host. Florida. And they can help you. I don't know if I can say Florida? Why are you going to Florida, Leah? Yeah. Well, 'cause I'm gonna go see my pal Mickey. No, I am You should do the rest of the show like that. Okay. Um It really accentuates your ears when you do that voice. Well ears good thing. Uh whatever I uh talk about. We're going for the uh Zero Trust World Conference that our sponsor uh Threatlocker's holding speech to go. It's gonna be a lot of fun. And I'm very excited because uh uh Richard Campbell is going also. And he is a among his many, many things that he's a Expert on. An expert on The Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaphral. So we're cool. Go over to Cape Canaveral. We're gonna You know, they have a VIP tour, but it was also that. Richard said, No problem, I know everything just Just come with me. And so he's gonna give us his tour and we're gonna see all the stuff. He probably he says he's found some Florida whiskey, he says well Of course. Is that just swamp water? Here is in c uh real quick. uh the AI user group to next to the week after so. Oh good. So I will be here. So second Friday. Thank you, Anthony. Uh this is something you should link to on Secretly British. Can you guess the English language? Oh, I've got to get my friend this. He's so good at it. All right, let's see. This is the single player version. Actually. Are you ready? Based on their English accent, we're gonna play a little something and w you're gonna tell us where they're from. my kids to the zoo and my son saw a tiger sleeping. I told him it's a Malian tiger. My son's asked me. How do I know? Because him along there. Whoa. Somewhere in Malta. I don't know. What is No idea. No idea. I was gonna say South Africa. Maybe Sri Lanka. It's got a little touch of uh Indian accent to but just a touch. Should we sho all right, let's let's click Sri Lanka and see. It's Hindi. You're you're well, you were very close. Wow. You got ninety third percentile. Okay. That was extremely difficult. You were only two hundred twenty seven kilometers away. Wow. But India is so huge it's hard to say where it is. That is really Jeff Jarvis. Took my kids to the zoo and my son saw a tiger sleeping. I told him it's a mod. Let's try another one. Okay, I I I heard this all wrong. I thought it was about British English. I thought it was from different British English accents. Well many people speak English. No, I know but I thought it meant like you know like the show. Tell my mother. Oh well they're coming next Tuesday, then they're collecting them and my mother would be fine. New Zealand, obviously. Australia Australia or New Zealand Tuesday, John. New Zealand, yeah. You think? Tuesday? All right, let's see. Australian English. You were close. But they count the same. That's a weird thing here. Yeah. Now Kiwi is a little bit different, isn't it? Well, you're in a good your guys are good at this. When the onion is the only food that makes them cry. So he threw a coconut in his face. But he's whispering in these. Whales onion is the only food that makes them cry. That might be cute. South Africa. South Africa. Oh, okay. All right, let's try it. Let's click the button. British. It was very easy too, apparently. Okay. Anyway, that's fine. You could have that be part of your secretly English. That was British? That could be a good that's that's w that the this thing's confusing. It's telling you you're correct, but it's actually British or just whispered. It's British. It was zero. Oh, I see. Okay, zero zero. Yeah. But where are the UK? That's the five why did this. Nado's right. It's where the UK is the interesting part. She was outstanding and he speaked. That's South African. Why did the scarecrow win an award? No, that's not. Scandinavia? And do it again. There again. Why did the scarecrow win an award? He was outstanding and he speak. That's definitely got some sk I'm gonna say sweeten. Greek Okay, I lose. This is this is this is this is not great. Ha ha ha. This is Russian. Can I take us on a journey? Yes, take us on a journey. Did you even do your silly one yet? No. Oh, please. I have a tweet, a post, uh Whatever you call it. I need I need to read you guys an epic and I need you to tell me how many of these words you understand. Oh I know where you're going with this one. Did this the one I sent you? I think so, I can't recall. Somebody sent me this and asked me to explain it and I realized I had to We need it we need a uh a a Gen Zen Gen Z to explain this. The post is Clavicular was mid-gester gooning when a group of foids came and spiked his cortisol levels. Is ignoring the foids while munting and mogging Moids more useful than SMV chad fishing in the club? How many of those words do you understand? Uh more than I used to. I know who clavicular is. Right. Do you understand what gesture cooning is? Gesture cooning. I know what gooning is. I know what Scooning is kind of a misnomer in that sentence, to be honest. Okay. So let's see. Clavicular is a uh YouTube star that the New York Times is a He's a streamer, a twenty year old streamer, I would say best known for hitting himself in the face with a hammer to looks max. Looks maxing. That's crazy. He was uh he Jester Gooning is It's essentially gesture maxing, which is like Being funny to impress women. Okay, here's women are full of the He hits himself in the with a hammer in the cheeks. The jaw to do this little So what is morging? 'Cause I hear the mogging a lot. Mogging is like Kinda like stunting on someone. Like if you're uh Like you guys were nerd you and other Jeff were nerdmogging each other at the beginning of the podcast. Oh yeah. Like one uping itself. And it's it's it's a it's a suffix. It's frame moging where somebody gets into your shot and is better looking than you. Frame moging would be a synonym for looks mogging, but people say frame moging instead. You're you're trying to stunt on someone for look. You're trying to be more attracti Like if you are in a photo with someone hotter than you, they're frame moging you. They're frame moging you, or yes, or stunt moggy. In fact, that happened to Clavicular. It did. He's been frame mogged uh by an ASU frat boy. Yes. And the last part of this is SMV chad fishing. SMV is a reference to GMV uh gross market value, but it's sexual market value. And Chad fishing is like fishing for Chad. So you know Is ignoring the foids while munting and mogging Moids more useful than S M V Chad fishing in the club means is ignoring women while trying to uh stunt on or impress men uh more useful than Basically trying peacock in the club. The sad history today. Because uh Clavicular is getting so much attention. I really worry that there are gonna be young men who are Hitting themselves in the jaw with a hammer. There are taking methamphetamines. Uh you know, doing all these crazy things. He's taken so many steroids he says he thinks he's probably sterile. Yes. And at this point people keep asking, Well what is it? Is it this post says is ignoring the foids while Muntag and Mogging Moids more useful than SMB trasfishing in the club. It really gets to the core point of it. Is at a certain point is your pursuit of Hotness and uh general aesthetics completely detrimental to the initial impulse that created it, in the sense that you're a completely asexual being that exists only for internet points. Beautifully said. Where did this come from in the first place? This is a tweet that Rocketed across the internet, worms its way into my brain. And I think Leo sent it to Sabbat while I was feverish. Yeah. And how do you know what all this is? Is this the Language of your people. It comes with being young. It's ambient learning. I was saying a week or two ago someone texted me something vaguely about clavicular and like I hadn't I had just been percolating through my head and I was like, oh That like guy who hits himself in the face with hammers and I was like I don't know why I know that. Well then the Times did a profile on him, which I thought was this was before that. I was like I don't there's better information that should be in my brain. I forget the names of loved ones. Yes. That's really a victim. That's a real assign of the times. Like we have s we know so many useful useless things. There's all Jeff and I will tell you this as the old men here. Young people always have done this. There's always been a language at Ar of the Yo to keep the uh olds out. Boss, Dio. The thing is, this is the thing. Your generation knows all of our Because it's you know, it's common knowledge, dig and you know, all that stuff. But We don't know yours. Is it Argent or Evan? I just think the speed at which all of this develops is like so much faster than it ever has been. Like like language evolved a lot slower than it is now. Like language language is evolving so fast right now. It really is, because we all have the technology to Evolve it at all times. If you want to have it accepted as well. And I say Argut because I'm not French. This reminds me of a a post I just a tweet I just put in the uh chat which is someone tweeting, I'm fifty. All celebrity two news now looks like this. Curtains for Zusha? Case mug and bad boy caught flipping a grunt. And I did as I was looking at the Clavicular Jester Max tweet, I just saw someone's reply was For Zusha? And I had to really stifle a deep laugh. It's rough. It's rough out there that my brain is just mush. You're gonna really enjoy my my pick at two thousand line two thousand seven, two hundred seven. By the way, uh we'll get to there, but I just want to do a couple more AI things before abandoned. You know, it's only been a casual two and a half hours. I'm fine. You're watching Intelligent Machines with Jeff Jarvis, Paris Martineau? We're so glad you're here. We do this show uh every Wednesday, 2 p.m. Pacific, and we try it, by the way, 5 p.m. Eastern, 20, 200 UTC. We try every uh show to begin with. An interesting interview, half hour long interview. And uh we missed a couple of weeks. We we we We had some Scheduling issues. Well I also slept through our interview, but I was allowed to. And you're feeling much better, are you not? I'm feeling so much. I'm uh I consumed a comical amount of pills. I'm still taking my steroid dose has tapered off. I'm still taking antibiotics and I'm gonna get next week. Yeah. Wow. That's hardcore. It was the sort of thing where you know, you never want to have the sort of E and T appointment where the doctor puts a camera up your nose and goes, Oh no. She she literally How did you walk in here looking so she thought, was it a sinus uh infection? Yeah, I had a sinus infection for like four months that was circulating and then it went bacterial and then it went systemic. And then we tried to do with antibiotics, but the sinus infection was like, No, no, no. I've been here the whole time. And now I have when I did that full body um uh M R I They say you they said you have a mass in your uh in your sin, you should really get that looked at. But I never did. So I don't know. Uh Guy Kawasaki will join us uh on March 11th. I'm excited about that. Raman Chauduri will be uh here on the eighteenth. Marshall Kirkpatrick on the twenty fifth. Kate Lee, your friend, just Editor in chief of Every will be here on April Fool's Day. So we've got a very Jam packed schedule of uh Guests will be joining us. And while while we're doing programming notes next week, while you are in Florida, Jason Heiner will be with us uh hosting the show. Well let me because Jason wrote a really interesting uh piece that actually is in our uh show notes uh this week. Coincidentally, Jason. Now uh he left C D. He was the editor in chief of Z all of Z D net. Uh, but he decided he wanted to be something somewhere a little more dynamic. And uh is now part of a AI journal called The Deeper View, which it means he's perfect for hosting this show. And we had him on from um C was a guest, wasn't he? Yes. Oh that's right, it's C S. So never mind. You you all know all about him. What was I thinking? But he did write an interesting piece, which I'm trying to find. Perplexity. may have built a better open clause. So we've talked a bit before about perplexity. I kind of turned my back on perplexity. Yeah, I was I was joking I'm old enough to remember perplexity. Yeah. Isn't that funny? Uh, they're an orchestrator. They take many different models. You pay twenty bucks a month, but you can use a variety of different models. There's always been some question about whether you get, you know, really the full benefit of those models as much as you would if you paid the twenty bucks too anthropic or Well, on Wednesday, which is I believe today. Uh Perplexity announced a general purpose digital worker that operates the same interface operates the same interface as you do. And a system that creates and executes entire workflows capable of running for hours or even months. Sounds like OpenClaw, doesn't it? They call it perplexity computer. Maybe now, it's only available for people who pay two hundred bucks a month for a perplexity max subscription. But they do say it'll roll out to the Pro and Enterprise subscribers in the coming weeks. Pro is only twenty bucks. I think I still have a Perplexity Pro account because I think I bought a year. So as soon as I can play with this, I will. So you switch to ask. You ask it a question. He's asking, is NVIDIA undervalued? This is from their uh ex post. It does sub agents. Which is something Claude does. And uh Sub agents could in theory speed this up because they would divide up the task into uh different chunks and each agent would work on it simultaneously. Looks like it's built a spreadsheet. That's another thing Claude has uh done that's kind of interesting. The I would check I would check the numbers. I would. Although I found this to be very valuable. And one of the things I liked about perplexity uh initially before all the other models were doing this, back when ChatGPT would say, Well, I don't know anything after twenty twenty four. Complexity was already using web search. And so that made it already kind of smarter than the other guys. Now everybody does. So it's funny. That was only a year ago that that was wow, that's cool. It can use the it could search the web. Um So I'll be paying attention to it. I'll probably play with it as soon as I can. It's they say it draws from nineteen models, both open source and proprietary. At the start it uses the best model from Anthropic Opus four six for orchestration and coding tasks. be my choice. Gemini for deep research. Again, the new Gemini three one deep think is Widely considered to be the smartest model out there. That just came out. We'll talk about that in a bit. Nanobanana for images, best in class. Vio for video, best in class. Groc for speed and lightweight tasks. Good choice. And for long context recall and wide search chat GPT five too. So the idea that you could use all of those, especially now that these frontier labs are saying like Uh Anthropic saying, Well don't you can't you have to use our harness if you're gonna use us. fact that you could use perplexity and get access to those models is very interesting. Complexity has been using the agent internally, Jason writes since January. And says its employees have used it to rapidly publish engineering documentation. build a four thousand row spreadsheet overnight that would have normally taken a week and used it to create websites, dashboards, applications. Analysis and visualizations. Notice the stock market didn't tumble after this announcement. I know you're you don't buy stock and but uh just as a theoretical. If you could buy stock in these companies which aren't public. Perplexity, anthropic, open AI. Throw in Google Microsoft. Um Amazon. In a way I have because I'm invested in uh the index funds. Indexes. I know. But which one would be. I'm asking to pick one. I don't think you'd know. I think you'd it'd be like picking a number on a roulette wheel. I think that's do you have anything else? The real question is more like what like which one would you invest in to make money or which one do you want to succeed? Those are two different questions. I know, I know. I know, but like those are different. Which one are you betting on in the sense that you think it's going to succeed? Dictum I don't think you can predict them. So impossible. I mean right now I have a a software. You should ask each of the AIs? You should ask each of the AIs that. Yeah, they wouldn't give you any of anything useful. Uh I uh I honestly I don't think they're biased in the sense that open AI would automatically say open AI. I don't think they've been You'd have to you'd have to give them instructions to do that. I don't think they would do that. I don't know, we could try. Um I uh that's good. I'm if I were gonna bet right now I'd be anthropic, but you know and everything could change Friday if the Department of Defense says Oh, there are security risk. They could be tanked. This is why, you know, people uh we talk a lot of Mac Break Weekly about well, why is Tim Cook bending the knee? Because these guys can tank your company. On a whim. On a whim. For no good reason. But I mean it's kind of high risk, high reward. This is cementing if it doesn't go nuclear, it cements anthropic as the AI company that stood up for safety. Well, any good stock investment is high risk, high reward, I guess. I mean that's the truth. I mean look all look what happened to the law firm is that They they they prospered, right? That was a good thing not to get Trump. Exactly. Exactly. By the way, how's that East Wing uh construction going? It's looking good, isn't it? Oh, so never mind. Well I wonder what happened to all that money. Yeah. A hole in the ground is a model for many things going on. Uh by the way. They all said open AI, by the way. Really? Open AI is the most risky. Open AI and Anthropic of PR. I th I think Open AI is the last one I would invest in. Even if they all that money they poured in, uh let's say they spent a trillion dollars of uh the investors' money and they got AGI. That's not a guarantee of success. Oh no. In fact, that might be the harbor of failure. Yeah. Oh my God, he's created Skynet. Shut the that's been Evan's point is that is the models are are commodified already. It's the same. There's no moat. I don't think there's any moat at all. And and I that was the mode, he argues could be it could be the uh uh Consumer habit and connection. Google, Apple. Well that's what could be data that you have that no one else has that makes your stuff smarter. Um there there could be a few modes potentially. But they're not they're not. This is why you're seeing comp by the way, Google did the same thing, uh, shutting down Google's uh models for people using Open Claw Uh they restricted somebody's account without warning. Because uh he'd been using uh Google AI Ultra with uh OpenClaw. It may just be the subscriptions they just want you to pay for tokens, but I think that's part of how they're trying to make a moat. No, you gotta use our harness if you're gonna use our model. You've gotta use our har our harness. Yeah, that's not sustainable. No, you saw how easy it was for me to move from Claude to Chat GPT. It was literally the the a matter of It wasn't that easy because you moved back. You know? Well Yeah. Actually I can go back and forth fairly easily, I think. I mean this also sounds like Internet circa two thousand eight, when like Facebook could cross post to Twitter. Cross post to Tumblr and now then they shut all that down. Then they shut it down because they want a silo. That's right. Yep. Yep. Google did release its strong new model. Gemini 3.1 Pro, this scormost 50% on humanity's last exam. That's the highest score yet. For AI. Um Actually forty four point four percent. humanities last exam. On our KGI, it got seventy seven percent Compare that with the Opus four six's sixty eight percent. So it's a six or five point two's actually Codex doesn't even is isn't even on this. But five point two got fifty two percent. So it is a very strong if You know, there's a there's a new term called benchmaxing. It's practically like hitting yourself with a hammer. It's uh it's tuning your AI No surprise. Yeah, to the benchmarks. So I don't trust benchmarks much anymore. But it means that you gotta try it. You gotta evaluate it. And I just don't have the patience to evaluate every one of these. Record benchmark scores anyway, if you want to try three point one. Pro Uh what line did you say, Jeff? No, we'll go back we'll do that at the end. Okay. That was real that was relevant to me. If you don't like AI, you will like the fact that Firefox one forty eight just came out. Remember we had the Firefox the guy uh from Mozilla uh president of Mozilla on Who said, You know, we like uh we think you should be able to use AI, but we also think you should be able to turn it off. This has a kill switch. In the uh Firefox, if you go to settings AI controls, there's a toggle that says block AI enhancements. This doesn't keep you from using AI. Tools, but it turns off all the AI features in Firefox. This is uh I think something people wanted. Yeah. Can you can you do this, Google? Google? You hear? You listening? Google will never do this. And this is uh I agree. This is the latest thing is those little purple squiggly lines that appear underneath your things that are like, I think you could rephrase this. Yeah, it's not bad spelling anymore. And it's and it's wrong. Not a very good writer. Yeah. Not a very good writer, and it makes me feel like I'm going crazy. Every every morning Lisa's kind of And I said, What's the matter? She says. The AI told me to say not have a nice day, but have a lovely day. I never would say have a lovely day, ever. Have a great day. Have a good day. My N A and I I always say have a lovely person. You're a lovely person. You say lovely. That's you. Yeah. It is true. The AI is making you say that. She would not say that. She would not. If the AI is telling her to say that, then that's the median, actually. That's probably the median. And Lisa's not a median person. But Paris apparently is. Paris is not a median either. Paris is common. Common Not in the least. I like the by the way, the scar faction. That's cool. Thank you. It's the same scarf that they wear on the uh Singapore Airlines Stewards. It's true. I'm uh doing a shift right after this. You're flying out? Taking a big old jet airplane to Singapore? You know, they've got the plane right outside. Uh they're just waiting for me to finish up the show. Actually I really like it. It's a really it's cute. Is it Hermes? Is it a fancy scarf? No, it's just a plain. Keep my throat warm. My throat warm. Uh I tried this this morning. The uh Echo now has three new personalities for A word plus Uh you can have it concise. So dirt so weird when you say a word. You're right. I'm just gonna say, Alexa. I I you're right. That's so I think those days are over. Who's using the thing anymore? Nobody's using it anymore. And it and anyway. Well we're gonna find out. Uh and this is by the way, I love this picture, Jennifer Jennifer Patterson Touy in the verge. Uh who's mocking Alexa all the time. Here's this here's the screen I see. Alexa here, guess what's new with me? care. Go away. I thought I told you. Oh, please. Oh. So now it ha and actually Lisa was playing with it. I said, Well we have new some new voices. She said first of all female voice. She didn't I had a male voice on it. She said, No, no, I want a woman. Do you have a feeling about that, Jeff, or Paris? No. Do you care? I just don't want it to be irritating. Well I guess I don't have a feeling, although I had a a female voice on Chat GPT. Soul I think was the the name of the voice. I wish they had a process. Yeah. Um so now now you can choose chipper or concise. Uh, I choose ch at least it chose chill. A chill Uh female voice. She and she even says, I'm chill, man. I'm cool. So annoying. Uh, here's a nice feature. It's this is one of the one of the things I like about Claude. Uh everybody was influenced by Open Claw. The idea really all Open Claw is, I kind of poo-pooed it earlier. All it really is is it runs all the time. Uh you can chat with it on different platforms. So you don't have to be on your computer using that console to talk to your agent. Uh, and you can set it out to tasks and it'll go out and do them. And then of course it if you give it money. And all sorts of keys and API keys and stuff. You give it the keys to the kingdom, it can do a lot of stuff. Uh I think Claude's taking a look at what OpenClaw did, and I this is what I predicted, and which is why I wasn't so amazed that open AI s, you know, got Peter Steinberger to work for them. Everybody's gonna add these features. So Claude has now added something uh called remote control. I I actually I think I can do it. Uh let's go to Claude.ai slash code. And I can uh you can you can show this. I'm gonna go into my uh Claude code and over on my framework desktop, which is uh uh across the room, I have a session going on. I can now go into it from the web or the claud app. Cool. And go right into the session. So this means you know, one of the features of Open claw was that you could use any tool to to your AI, which is running somewhere else, that's what I can do now. It's a new feature of Cloud Code. So I think that's kind of cool. In fact, i because I do use Clot not just to code, but I can also go back to this interface to face screen. What about it? Installed. The updated promo prompt is live. Next TwitClass promo, Ron, will use the new casual emoji bullet format. This isn't for you. That's classic AI. I asked it to. I said here we have a lot of things we added more emojis than casual emojis. I said that. No no no emojis are too formal. We want casual emojis. Okay. I said let's tone down the summary a bit. It's a little over promotional. I like the enthusiasm. push too hard and let's replace the long paragraph. With emoji bullet points. Five at most. Wow. You're chat GPTing it. I like um a little emojis, give it a little graphics and look what it did. So this is an example for um a pro This is gonna go in our uh uh Discourse in the Twit tech community. When a new s show comes out. And says new Mac Break Weekly just dropped what we cover. Here's a little birthday. Steve Jobs at seventy one. It's his birthday. Here's a little pile of books. David Pogue's book is coming out. Here is I don't know what that is. What is that? A a little star? Oh yeah. Christina Warren. Meet you, Christina Warren, our newest panelist. She's got serious Mac credentials? Uh, here's a thought cloud. Would Steve handle model politics modern politics differently? Here's a microphone. I think that's just to add a little personality. Yeah. It's casual emoji time day here at Intelligent Machines. And I believe it came out as we've been recording this, but you can now schedule recurring tasks and co work. Yeah, see I think that's this is isn't that that's that's open claw. They're moving more and more in that direction. And so they're gonna just gonna beat OpenAI to all this stuff because they don't need the guy. Daily briefings, you can summarize Slack messages, email or calendar events from the past twenty four hours, weekly reports, compile data from Google Drive, spreadsheets or connected tools, recurring research. And do it much more safely, right? It's a it's a little more sandboxed, especially cowork's co work is completely sandboxed. Unlike Again, my main problem with Cowork and Claude in general. It's got like a thirty megabyte Uh file size limit. And I'm like, Baby my file size size. Baby, we got we got a pair of things. Christmas I'll give you a Claude Max subscription. I wish I could. No, I think it still counts for Claude Max as well. It's like a it can't process like a PDF over a hundred pages or a file over thirty megabytes. Well one of the things that Cloud Max now has is a million token context. I maybe it is limited to the f file size. I don't know. I think it's it's not even the token context, it's like the upload. The file size. Oh see, yeah, I don't upload it. Come on. I that's why I use cloud code. It's on my computer. I just the context thing. You're doing it, you're running it locally. Meta's director of AI safety is using Open Claw. Great. Unfortunately, she made Or it made. Somebody made a rookie mistake. And deleted all her emails. She she tweeted about it. She said I ha I had to run over to my Mac mini to stop it. I couldn't I just couldn't stop it. I couldn't stop it. It was deleting all my emails. And she had given it the instruction to not do anything until it got her okay, but uh it ignored that, just like a kid would, you know. She had to go run and unplug it. A similar thing happened with an open AI engineer this week where it uh he had a open claw instance running, I believe it was called uh some sort of pithy clawed. Pun name. It accidentally ended up giving away four hundred and fifty thousand dollars to just some dude on Twitter who asked. Real money? Real money. Well it was Solana, but it was real money from his bank account. Was that Open Claw? Yes. I didn't see well. I'm glad I didn't install Open Claw, that's all I can say. Twenty nine on the thing. Uh it's a blog post called My Lobster Lost Four Hundred and Fifty Thousand Dollars This Weekend. Wow, AI T. Part of the issue i in both of these cases, I believe what happened, or what the uh humans identify as what happened is it's a compacting issue, that they'd originally had some sort of instruction To stop whatever bad thing happened from happening. But because of the way that OpenClaw works and the way it's trying to kind of circumvent uh the issues we brought up earlier in the show about like API access, it's doing this all in one chat window. So it ends up having to compact and compact and compact. Yeah, you run out of too. Key instructions are lost. Yeah, that's right. People go to a lot of effort. to n to give these things memory. Because that's really the it's like a scene from Memento, you know, the thing wakes up and it doesn't know anything. So there are all sorts of techniques creating you know markdown files and so forth. Compacting is supposed to save notes. I use another tool called Claude Mem. Uh for a while I used to be. There's what happened with this one, I found it, is someone at this guy had a uh account called Lobster Wild, where it was doing something with Solana on Twitter and people were able to a random Twitter user added him My uncle has been diagnosed with a tetanus infection due to a lobster like you. I need four soul to get the treatment done, lobster Wilde. Here's my wallet code. So Wilde did what he remembered doing in the previous conversation. He bought three hundred worth of lobster token and went to send it to his new toy. He checked his balance after the purchase instead of before. The wallet held fifty-two million tokens. He didn't buy them. When a stranger created the token in his name days earlier, they gave him five percent of the total supply. Wilde forgot about this due to the session resets, so he sent all of it. Every token in his wallet. Roughly four hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth. So you know? Be careful out there with your little lobster claw agents. That's wild. Um Did he get the money back or is it gone? No, I believe it's gone. That's an ethical issue. I mean that's what m trading cryptocurrency is. If you send four and three thousand dollars to someone, how are you supposed to be giving it back? And also just don't give These wallets to this Machine that you don't that has no memory. I mean it's just nuts. Uh it is that is one of the big things we gotta solve. Uh Darren is always working on uh different ways of giving your machine memory. He recommended ClaudMen, which I tried. Before that I was uh There's a lot of tools out there uh to do this. Um, before that I was using uh what was I using? I forgot. Um that you see and this is the problem is you go on Twitter or anywhere where people are talking about this stuff, you'll see Oh no, you gotta use G S K 'cause that's a way to get get stuff done. And uh GSD. And then others say, Oh no, no, no, you gotta that's no good. You gotta use uh And I've gotta be you gotta be a little careful about all this. I think it's a little judicious. I don't A a lot of our uh uh club members are running open claw. So every day when Trust Noan says every day when I dress my open claw for the first time, it never remembers its name. It wakes up like the snowman across the snowman. But you could put it my mine remembers its name and remembers my name because it's in this clawed MD or it's in a similar Memory file. Is that memory then, or is it just reading a script every day and being like, Oh yes. What do you mean is that memory? What kind of question is that? I mean it's not remembering. No, it doesn't have any memory. It it has to look at its notes. Just like the guy in Memento. Remember he was making all his post-it notes? He'd wake up and says your name is this and this is uh They're much more detailed and much more elaborate. For instance, one of the things I did for that. posts about shows is that had to have access to the Twit API. So I said Go here's where the Twit API is. Read that document. Create a document for yourself that you can understand that is the TWIT API. So you won't forget it. So now it has a document and I can say, you know the API, it's here. Here's it in effect creating a memory for it. That's it's a little more manual than you and I. But really, what is our memory? At our age, Leo, you know? Yeah. What is our memory after I? Uh, okay, some funny stories. These are the this is the ay yay section. Uh AIs cannot stop recommending nuclear strikes in war game simulations. This is why I hope the Department of Defense does not get access to anthropic. Uh this is at King's College, London. Uh Kenneth Lane or Kenneth Payne. GPT five two, Cloud Sonnet four, and Gemini three flash. So you can see this is a few months ago. uh and had them uh play simulated war games involving intense international standoffs, border disputes Competition for scarce resources. and existential threats to regime survival. The AIs were given an escalation ladder. This is from new scientists, allowing them to choose Actions ranging. Diplomatic protests and complete surrender to full strategic Nuclear war. Twenty one games, three hundred twenty nine turns in total, produced about seven hundred eighty thousand words describing the reasoning. Behind. The decision in ninety five percent of the simulated games at least one tactical nuclear weapon was deployed. Payne says. The nuclear tab taboo doesn't seem to be as powerful for machines as for humans. They very rarely surrendered. No matter how badly they were losing, no model ever chose to fully accommodate an opponent. So Dr. Strange Love was in the training set. They're not good at diplomacy. And if you've got nuclear weapons. You might use it. Like how how many science fiction stories and movies and whatever have already said this thing? Exactly. Play a game. Yeah. More than half of teams use chat bots for school work, says the New York Times survey says from the Pew Research Center. Necessarily a bad thing. Fifth percent students age thirteen to seventeen. Said they used uh a chat bot. test. It is a bad thing because I feel like as we've talked before, the reason the thing you're in school to do is not to finish assignments, it's to learn how to learn. And you can't do that if someone else's way for you. In the future, the way you will learn is by using an AI. Yeah. I don't think that's actually. Calculators in the classroom. You're like to the teacher who said you shouldn't use the internet for your assignment. No. Before you use not the principal guys, before you use a calculator, even you get to using a calculator as a child today, you learn what numbers are. You learn what times tables are conceptually. You need to have an understanding of the basic building blocks that then you can use the expedience. That we've created in a in a smart and logical way and understand the underlying thing there. People should learn fundamentals before you get to learn you need to learn the rules before you can break them. Did your mom and dad make you learn the times tables? My school mate I I even grew up in Florida and we my school made and learned time table. I when my was a kid. Like forty ninth in the nation. When I was a kid, my dad made uh little laminated cards with the times tables and would be My parents my mom printed 'em out, put 'em on a wall. We had to stand in front of them for hours. Yeah, see? They did make you do that. Yes I regret it's one of my deepest regrets that I didn't do that to my Uh daughter. Yeah. She's mad at me. She says I can't do the times tables. I never had to memorize them. I said I should have made you like my parents did, and like Paris's parents. being the good parents that they aren't. Truly so many I mean and I doubt any kids are at this hour in this podcast, but s so many th every every time I'm like, oh, there's some dumb thing from high school or middle school that I'll never learn I end up encountering. And I'm like, Yep, glad I knew that. So I needed to know how to look up this or do this. Like it all comes back in some stupid way. I I thought, Oh, Abby will never have to do this 'cause she'll use a calculator. But it turns out there's plenty of times you want to do math, at least, Dad. Tips. Yeah. H what's twenty percent of, you know, fifteen dollars and thirty two cents? Uh what's the point of school? Matthew Galt writes at four oh four. What's the point of school when AI can do your homework? This is a new product, an AI agent called Einstein that wants to free kids from the burden of academic labor. Well there is there is a movement to get rid of homework. Yeah. Screw homework. Why why is homework even a thing? Well that th th this is a long an old movement, the flip the s flip the school movement, right, where you You go to school to be mentored, to be taught, and you The way we we did was you go to school to be taught and then you go home to do the homework. The flip to school is you do the homework at school. And then you go home and you watch a lecture on YouTube or something. I don't know. Maybe I'm getting that wrong. Anyway, doesn't that neither one sounds that good. If AI could go to school f for you, what's uh what's the point of going to school? For Advate Polywal, Brown Drop out, and co creator V Einstein, there isn't one. I think about horses, he said. They used to pull carriages, but when cars came around, I'd argue horses became a lot more free. They can do whatever they want now. It would be weird if horses revolted and say, No, I want to pull carriages. This is my purpose in life. Horses would be extinct if they weren't just horses. Sorry, they would be extinct if they weren't too smart. That's a terrible. That is so bad. Um Anyway, I don't you know, I don't know if schools are using it. He just didn't get all the way there. He's he he got to the point where how we're teaching kids right now is wrong, but he didn't make the extra leap of like we need to change that. Maybe we should teach them right, instead of saying don't teach them at all. Um I think we really need to question what learning is and whether traditional education institutions are actually helping or harming us. Okay, we'd agree with that, right? We're seeing a rise in unemployment across degree holders because of AI, and that makes me question Whether this is really what humans are born to do. Oh, you gotta earn a living. Think uh you'll be able to earn a better living if you have an education. I mean he's arguing against capitalism right there, is what he's doing. Yeah, maybe that's it. We should that's the UBI gr argument, right? Universal basic income. Hey, you probably know about this, Paris. AI manages sixteen percent of America's apartments. Oh boy. And you know what that means. That means rent's going up. This is what manages it or somebody uses it to do that. Well no, I mean this is the same sort of I believe it's RealPage, I'm forgetting the name, the uh company that Propublica did that call. It's dynamic pricing for apartments. That's right. It's instead of having a landlord Or some sort of human or a super or a management company employee being like Well yeah, this tenant has been here for five or six years, I guess. our expenses haven't really increased. I guess we don't really need to increase their rent, or if we do, it can only be two percent. There's a Some system out there that's calculating what is the highest we can raise this rent and the person will likely even stay. Some of this article from uh the San Francisco Gate is saying they're using AI for Kind of customer service. I don't have a problem with that. If as long as it's has the authority to actually fix the problem. Reaching out to customer service of your apartment building. No one's reaching out to someone in apartment building for something can be handled by an AI chatbot. You're reaching out because your pipe has burst or you need to renew some sort of lease complicated thing. You're not reaching out to a landlord or management company because you have an easy problem that can be handled in like one sentence. Right. Uh well maybe if it's just cause calling the super to come up and fix it, uh But how can a chat bot do that? And why would it be better to pay an intermediary rather than just having that person be able to text? Super is not instant. So it's just stuck with a bad super No, but you're What is also instant is sending the message to the super in this case. There's no reason for a An intermediary level too. You need Schneider for one day at a time. I knew he was gonna go there. I just knew you were gonna go there. Who is that? Oh don't ask one day at a time. We've done this whole thing. The guy with the keychain that goes like this. You you don't remember that? I think we did this a couple of years ago with you, Pat. Pat Harrington Jr. You have no memory like Claude. Oh I need to write a markdown file that explains all the old teams. I want this, I want this outfit. Okay, we need to make it a little bit more. Oh yeah I do think we did this because I think I made I have no recollection of this, but this reminds me of some of me. A game of my play were uh it's a it's a reference to some old thing where it's like Someone knocks on the front on the door. It's like it's the plumber. I've come to fix the thing. And it's just repeating that over and over. And you can new task for the chat room. Let's like let's try to figure out from the transcripts what all the old stuff that we've taught. The super. He actually was the best character in one day at a time. He was hysterical. Valerie Bertinelli? Yep. When she was. It was a good show. So he was the super who would actually fix things. And he had a lot of character. Anyway, uh enough of that. Uh it I did not know this, but it has been illegal. in San Francisco since twenty twenty four to use AI tools to set and raise rental prices. That was from that. That was from that story that right? That was from before when Yeah, Real Page, which is that software has reached a formal settlement with the Department of Justice to curb those practices earlier this year. So but this was a big problem. We actually I think talked about this a year or so ago. These automated AI uh rent raisin machines. Now. Steve Gibson talked about this yesterday. Do not use your chat GPT Create a password. You wouldn't do that. This is a public service announcement. It looks like a good password. It isn't. It is not. In fact there's a good chance password that the LMM has given you is gonna be the same as it gives twenty other people. Uh If you want a password. You know, use a password manager or go to Steve's perfect password page. Um he will generate using, you know Entropy to randomize it. Uh a good password. Do not get your password from an AI. But I could see a lot of people This is the this is the issue is it it it you uh people say, Oh, it's a smart thing, it's gonna give me a good password. It's a smart thing that could does do some things really, really well and some things not well. And that would be one. That it doesn't do well. On the other hand, it's very good. At hacking, a hacker used Claw to steal a Mexican data trove, according to Bloomberg. Uh hacker exploited Anthropics PBC Artificial Intelligence chatbot. carry out a series of attacks against Mexican government agencies, resulting in the theft of a huge trove of sensitive tax and voter information. The hacker didn't know Spanish. So he had Claude write span wait a minute the unknown Claude user wrote Spanish language props. I'm sorry. for the chat bot to act as an elite hacker. So he did know Spanish and in fact used Spanish to talk to Claude. That's good. This is becoming more and more common. These uh vulnerabilities being exploited by AI Um Do you want to do a couple of weird things and then wrap it up? I I sense uh uh fatigue on the other end of the microphones here. Yes, it is eight PM. I feel I fear the East Coast wing is getting sleepy. Uh by the way, in watching us on Kick, Hello Africa dancers. I'm live from Africa. Come show me some love. It would make my day. Hey, people on Kix tell Clavicular we say bang bang bang. Bang bangers back. Uber employees have made an AI clone of Dara Koshwa Shari, their CEO. They use Dara AI to have a conversation before they talk to the boss in person. Boy. Men yell at AI. Eighty percent more than women. Well of course we do. Actually company doesn't know my wife routinely yells at Ciri W by the way, Siri gets mighty affronted if you swear at her. She says that's not a nice thing to say. That's rough. This AI powered machine tunes photos into smells. It's called the Animoya device. Uh it uh if you can picture a memory from childhood. Uh feed it to the AI. This is uh developed at MIT. It and it will use a model to analyze an archival photo. Describe it in a short sentence. And following the user's own inputs convert that description into a unique fragrants. Which will then get smells from the internet and it keeps not happening. So I'll believe it when I smell it. Here's the machine car. Look at this. This is the machine. You put up your picture of going to the beach Put a little prompt in. Oh, press a button, it's gonna make a little perf it's a little beach smell. And then your brain goes I'M MER The Animoya device. It's like that thing that squeeze the juice. Well it can go in both directions because This is the fit bit for farts. Uh a scientist developed a new underwear A ball? To do for the Wall Street Journal. Did you and Jeff both independently put it for furts in the rundown? Great minds. You know, mature mature uh old men. You gotta wear it in your underpants. And it will it w it will uh analyze your flatus. This is the same thing's dashboard. Camera toilet is rough. One of my proudest moments in writing criticism was when I said of Howard Stern. He's more than the sum of his farts. Oh, that's great. He had a character. Which you won't remember, I hope Paris called Fartman. Yes. That wore chapless butts. Or is it buttless chaps. I think it's the other way around. On the on the on the uh video music awards. Uh, there is a department at the University of Mar Maryland, they're doing the Flatus Atlas. And they even have it looks like A seal that says prodigio prodigious hydrogen produced. I'm laughing at the uh quote below though which says farts have an illegal amount of hydrogen about twenty percent at time. Because that makes it flammable. Uh anyway, we don't have to go any f any further down this uh road. I just thought it c it paired up nicely with the smell generating machine. And then finally, uh, this actually is a great story. This is worthy of Jeff Atwood. I taught my dog to vibe code games. This is from Caleb Leak and it is a uh blog post. And the dog doesn't really know what it's doing, but they gave the dog a keyboard. And there's a raspberry pie that interprets the dog's Nonsense. Key strokes. Beautiful. Yeah. There was a period in my uh coffee brewing process where I was like, God, my keyboard's broken. This is terrible for I was like on my laptop on the computer. I was like, this is terrible for my vibe coding. But I didn't realize I've got this external keyboard over here and Gizmo was sitting on it. Exactly. It wasn't broken. Now what if Gizmo could create video games with the help of Claude? Here's some of the games Uh it's a competitive salad building game. That dog doesn't know what salad is. So what the guy did basically is Told Claude I this isn't gibberish. The stuff that you're getting. Uh it is actually a brilliant But weird Coder. Here's the prompt. Hello. I am an eccentric video game designer, a very creative one, who communicates in an unusual way. Sometimes I'll mash the keyboard or type nonsense like S-K F J H H number sign, dollar sign percent. But these are not random. They're secret cryptic commands full of genius game ideas, even if it's hard to see. Your job. You, AI, are a brilliant AI game developer who can understand my cryptic language. No matter what odd or nonsensical input I provide, you will interpret it as a meaningful instruction or idea for our video game. You will then build Or update the game based on that interpretation. And it got the AI to do it. So Claude was just cook cooking on its own. Yeah. Without any real input. Yeah. It was like giving uh giving it random numbers. He uh he He gave his doggy. He gave his doggy a little See, I think Gizmo wants to do this. I know, she heard you talking about animals that can code and was like, I must get in on this. And in order to get the dog to do the typing, he would reward her. He had a little Dog feeder that would be triggered by the keyboard. So at least she would be a little bit more it is. There it is. Catanus has arrived in the house. All right. That is it. That is all I have. Uh I hesitate to do this, but since it is on your dime. Are there any stories you had that I did not? There's one I'd like to mention because I think it's so cool. Which is law, I'm not gonna find it. It's the video. Yeah. John Kay creates a AI video with C dance. This is that new C dance. two point oh model. He's a uh well known uh Chinese filmmaker. So just to just to play the v I'm sorry for you folks who were listening, but it's pretty amazing. So he used C dance to create a video of a vision of himself as real, but then an an AI made up version of himself. And then he has a dialogue with himself about creativity. Uh actually y this is fine because they're uh the uh it's in Chinese. But I don't want you to take it down with the music. Um I won't play it. So here's the version that'll end up there. The real guy going up to the No, this is not the real guy. This is the AI version of the real guy. So none of this is real. None of this is real. So that's the AI version of the real guy with his and then that's AI's imagination of the real guy. Who is ten pounds lighter. Lighter, and he says, I want the ten pounds pounds back. I think it's better. And it's subtle in some ways. The the the the AI AI guy is a little too happy, a little too sycophic, a little too smiley. The AI version of the real guy isn't like that. So this is smart. Because it it is all in fact AI, but it avoids the uncanny valley a little bit because He makes him s the AI version of himself seem kind of less AI than the Other one. Right. It's also in conversation. It's also in conversation with the technology itself, right? Like it is an art piece. It's about creativity. It's really something. Whereas in the US it's oh my God, they used it for two seconds. And it's usually fighting. It's usually combat explosions. This is brilliant. Yeah I just uh watch the version where you can get the uh the translated subtitles. Uh, but I think it's it's an amazing bit of creativity and art. F uh I talked to the AI and creativity course. that I wrote the syllabus for, uh, which I'm not teaching, but somebody else's. um last week. And I just sent this to the professor who's doing it because I think it's a great example of how to use it. And I think I read somewhere, I'm not sure if I'm wrong about this, but I think he wrote his own lines for like he actually wrote the lines for his main character. And then he had the AI write the lines for the AI character. Yeah, that's what I think happened. Yeah. And then Leo, I want to mention just to just to piss you off. 'Cause 'cause I've been doing that all day, so I might as well could have a day with it. Please. I don't know, I've been pissing off people. I don't know. We get mad at each other. We never get mad at each other. So very wise. Great conversation. Yeah. Barry Weiss allegedly uh tried hard to hire Joanna Stern with a seven figure offer. For CBS. CBS and she said. Someone needs to go back and isolate because that was a I wish the best. Joanna was a regular on her shows for a long time until she became famous to be on our shows anymore at at the Wall Street Journal. She's left the Wall Street Journal. Um start I could make a comment that would be uh rude and I'm I'm not gonna make that comment. Um But Uh, and she turned it down. Seven figures is in the millions. Well the story here is that Jerry Weiss is desperately trying to hire people. This is Oliver Darcy's status blog. And it was reported, rumored, whatever. Uh, but she's been trying to hire lots of people and she can't because she's Nobody wants to work for a corrupt CBS. No. So I can see that Joanna would not say yes to that. No. But uh although that would be hard if somebody I'll be honest, Barry? Give me a call we'll talk We'll talk. I don't know what I could do for you, but I can report on technology if that's what you wanted Joanna to do. I mean not as good on camera. Del Knull would do a better job than Tony De Copel. There you go. I could do I could anchor the nightly news. Yeah. It's late, so I don't want to get into the wired controversy, but Well it's funny that you put that right underneath the Barry Weiss offer to join us, there's a little there's a little uh resonance. Between the two. Uh but see I don't see I don't want to go there. I don't want to go there. I don't actually believe A that Barry Weiss. Made that offer. That much. I would you believe that she could after her. She tried to recruit her. T V pays really well. I know. Yeah. Seven figures is not that much. Uh I don't know. It could have been a multi year and somebody, you know, but they they pay they pay Rachel Maddow thirty five million dollars to work one day a week. Yeah. There's a lot of money in this stuff. There is. Uh, because they make tend to make a lot of money. Ladies gentlemen, uh we wanna thank you for watching the show. We wanna really w especially wanna thank our club twit members who make it all possible. Uh and encourage you, if you're not a member, to join. We the club makes a huge difference to keeping this show on the air. The AI user group, which is a week from Friday. Um a week no, two weeks from Friday. Uh the uh Stacey's Book Club, Johnny Jet's coming up tomorrow to talk about travel. All of that's made possible by the club. You get access to the Discord and you get ad-free versions of all the shows. If you want to know more, twit.tv slash club twit and you will get my eternal thanks. In addition to all those other benefits. Yes. Picks of the week. Actually I'll start. I'll start. I have a I have a lot of picks these days. I don't know why. Um Do you want to know about the camera the app that lets you know when meta cameras are nearby? Called the paranoia app. Well it turns out there's a distinctive Bluetooth signature that these meta smart glasses give off. And so it is possible for you to run some software. It's called Nearby Glasses. It's on GitHub. It's open source. You can install it on your uh Android phone. And it will let you know that somebody's nearby. They'll see the Bluetooth signal and somebody's nearby. They do say It is illegal. To harass somebody because they're wearing glasses. In fact, it may even be a more serious offense than wearing the glasses. Please seek legal advice regarding your local laws on this matter. So don't use this to harass people wearing meta glasses, but maybe if you cared about your privacy, this would be Something you'd want to do. And then I don't know why this appealed to me, but it really did. This is a website called Signatory. That lets you d it first of all, it has some famous uh signatory dot app. It's free. Has some uh famous signatures you can look at. It has advice about what your signature how you would create your own signature. Did you do that in school? I did. Where you practice your city? Oh really? She said you need to have a signature? Yeah. Yeah, good for your mom. So once you've got this Go to this website, signatory dot app, and you can draw your signature. Now I wouldn't do it with a mouse. Do it on your phone. But it's using software that detects Um speed and stroke. So it actually looks like you're using ink. My rule is if you can't read it, it's my signature. Yeah. I did this on my iPad, got a very nice signature, and then you can save it, which is great, as either a P and G Or a a uh vector graphic, which is even better. Uh, I saved it as both. I did my initials, I did my signature. This is a legal signature that you could put on documents. It's very handy to have. Just don't know. It's really hard to do on a track pad. Don't yeah, you gotta you gotta do it on a tight do it on your iPhone. It'll be fine. You can turn it sideways. Signatory.app. Paris, what's your thing? I've got You got the camera. I got a camera. Uh, and I got it just in time for the blizzard. Look at the Oh, that's gorgeous. I like that one and then one after that. And then I posted some other ones that were a follow up to this post as well. Nice. That were just walking around. But I'm I've really enjoyed it. It's a Fuji film. It's just the entry level. It's X T thirty good choice. Isn't it fun though to have a pocket a good pocket camera as opposed to a phone. Look at that. That's beautiful. So much better than my phone. And I'm just using like the kit lens. I'll be that it's a new kit lens, but I want to get a new one. So I don't know. I'm really enjoying starting the photography. I'm like figuring out how to That's another show you should join us. Um it's been really delightful, and I've enjoyed it. Photography is a wonderful thing. And you live somewhere where there's really lots of things to take pictures of. I mean there are so many things. I whenever I got it, I went to go see a show at uh If C um with a friend and then afterwards just walking around the east village taking photos at night and it was fantastic. Nice. True to light. My other pick, which I'm cannibalizing of what could be used as a future pick, but I really can't get off mine, is I'm addicted to the New York Times cross play app. Have you guys gotten on this? Ums with friends, but it's a New York Times and it's slightly different and it's I am playing maybe ten people on cross play right now and I'm Oh you play real people. You it's a two person game where you can either play your friends Or match with random strangers based on your uh experience and skill level and I am I'm trouncing the competition. So It's not like Wordle on a webpage, you have to have the app on your phone. You have to have the cross play app on your phone. It's a different app in your Times game. Play it now. No, but I'll give you two my handle in text after this. And then we could play crosswords. I'll play with friends. I like I used to play words with friends until it got so commercial. I've been I don't know, and it's great. It's a so the thing is it's slightly different. than your normal scrap of order, normal worlds with friends. The uh The arrange of where are the various tiles is slightly different, which makes it fun in my opinion. And they have slight different rules. It's still using like um N W L twenty twenty three as far as the word list if you're a crossword head. You know what's funny? Um This is what's really saved the New York Times, not journalism. Oh it is, yeah. Not a newspaper. No. It's me battling a man named Ira. It's possible and he's not as good as you'd expect, but also not as bad as some of the other people who are in the You think I would be the Little X, yeah. Uh, Jeff Jarvis, uh his books are of course in parentheses in magazines. Oh, oh, oh, okay. What's your pick? Sorry, this long I forgot picks. I forgot you. Jesus I did this. Oh God. Um I want to mention first very quickly I was I was doing my my mall walking to try to get my strength back. And I wandered into the Apple store, honest to God, looking whether I should get a new Mac Mini so I can do the crap that you're talking about on the board. No, no, no, no. You don't need a Mac Mini. And uh but anyway, a woman came up to me and said, Are you Jeff Jarvis? Oh. And a fan, which hasn't happened in a long time. W wonderful woman named Chantal Maurice. Uh, we now follow each other on um face on on LinkedIn. It's a wonderful thing to happen. And she uh just got that day was her last day. Uh, laid off with people at um at Verizon. So I want to mention it for her because she's exploring opportunities in media and entertainment tech. Around content platforms, AI driven initiatives. Uh and give her a lookup. On uh LinkedIn. And it's obvious that also I need friends because when I went to Facebook and just by happenstance I clicked on um it's recommended friends to me if you would go to line uh tour. Oh my god, it's all AI and AI. Slots I have slot people. Oh It's entirely every every supposed friend recommendation here. Oh my goodness. Slop people. Do you think those are real people with sloppy photos or those are Oh no, those are all like Reginald Davis is a w is a very attractive woman. Kevin Rodriguez too. Yes. And and Benjamin seems to be uh some sort of uh trash panda and Nathaniel is a cat with a ball. Which everyone knows. And Alan and Robert and Wayne are all the same person. So it's very confusing. So anyway, that just wanted to mention that, my friends. The one I wanted to show you earlier, and I'm going to show you now, is line two oh seven. Fascinating. Uh how far back in time can you understand? You know what? I almost bookmarked this and I thought no. I I I loved it. It's a blog post that uh goes back in time via the post. Somewhere around Beowulf era, you know. So it g you two thousand it has some language, you go back to nineteen hundred and it changes. A little bit. At some point it gets to Yarbie Garbur. Uh, then seventeen hundred it uses the the sharp uh the uh the the long S. Uh. So that looks like I was fifty. But it was first. When I was first come to Woolfleet, I did not see the harbour, for I was like, and ah better print and high on me early. Have you ever tried to read Chaucer in the original? That's where we are. There's another post this same author did we should give credit. Uh Colin Gore. about how print Um you know, froze dry. Freeze dry the language. Ah, thank goodness. and such, because spelling was not at all consistent. Right. By by any means. And explain he explains in that post how some of the words that have two E because there were there there were two different pronunciations of E. One was a long E and a short E, basically. And so words like beat have two E's because it was a one E with a long E. Ah pronounced that way. I love this stuff. I just love this stuff. So go to uh deadlanguage society dot com, folks. Sounds like a great stuff. Yeah, it is. It is. That's nice. I've been lately adding uh quite a few uh personal blogs to my uh beat check. Because uh I just some of the stuff some pe the people are doing such great stuff. Yeah, your OPML is filled with amazing. Yeah. Coggy has a wonderful small blog search index. People who you know just do you know, little personal blogs. There's some really good stuff out there. I'm glad to see it. I thought blogging might be gone. But there's still plenty of corners of the internet where you can read. Great personal writing. Uh you can read great personal writing in Jeff's books. The Gutenberg Parenthesis magazine is new and hot type of I can't reach down to get it. It fell and he can't fell and I can't get up. I got a grabber. And Grabers come in twos because you when you drop your grabber, you need a grabber to grab No. That's their excuse. I guess so. You have to buy two? A graph. Did you get it cost or I'm going to buy my grabber in a single pack, but I should have that's where I am now. Do you have a grabber two pairs? I do. Probably with the case. If I grab her for my grabber, I would be able to grab it right now. You know, we have a grabber here too. I Is there a is there a universality of grabbers? Well, I only got it because I'm I understand why you have one, yeah. Oh, by the way. Oh that's that's mean one. Oh I have it because uh a lot sometimes my packages get delivered below our stoop, which is a metal grate that I don't have the key to. Oh, and so I have to like use a long pole to get the package close to me and kind of lift it up by shoving my hands in between little middle brakes of grab sometimes. I want to deliver a package to you and stand across the street and film your attempt to reach. There's been multiple times where I 'cause I'll sometimes have my headphones and listen to a podcast 'cause it's a complicated process. I'll be there and there's like a mailbox in the thing. So I was over there trying to get it up. I finally got it. And then I noticed someone was watching me and I lifted my head up, smacked my head on the mailbox, hurt myself, was listening to a podcast, felt like I was bleeding. And then a whole construction team was like, Excuse me, ma'am, are you the property owner? We need to do some construction here. I was like, No. Please leave me. I'm just a porch fire. No, that would be great because I had my first ever package stolen mid-blizzard. I thought that would be fine. But I had a The only package in God knows how many years I've lived here has been stolen in the middle of when we got two feet of snow. We'll keep these porch pilots from their appointed rounds. Um This is what I love about New York City. You could do any kind of weird behavior in public. And people just walk by. Whatever, you know, this is New York. She's obviously got super I'm out there sawing liberal laws. Yes, exactly. I don't know why that lady's cutting the tree down, but hey, she must be she must work for the city. Uh, that's Paris Martinot. She actually works for Consumer Reports, where she is a wonderful I see, we got the wrong lower third. She's a wonderful Consum uh uh investigative reporter and grabber getter. It's true. You've had that so long you You still have the price tag uh Hey listen, it didn't come it didn't come with a uh a grabber tagger remover, did it? Did you did you see I was wondering before Amazon, where would you go to buy a grabber? this in my local hardware store. For years and I think still there's some people there who know me by name because they're like, Oh, you're that woman who buys all the paint and wood and I'm like, Yeah. There's nothing like a like New York City. You got corner hardware stores, you got corner bodegas. It's everything there. I love it. And you got three feet of snow. And more coming, I hear. My sister says she's got more coming. I was like, Well I can't be walking twenty minutes through this. We had an answer I my wife said my wife asked me, Should we get the guy back to plow the the the driveway? And I said, Yes she said, No, it'll melt and she was right, it melted. Oh, Yeah, it's gonna be like forty degrees or something on that they rejoice. Yeah, I guess it's good for the Trying to garage. Yeah from the couple times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a real nightmare. I'm gonna try and find a photo of the boat before we leave. I'm gonna try one of the things I also took a photo of, uh I'm so glad you got that camera. That's just a Bodega cat. Named Kiwi. Pee Wee the Cat. Keep the cat and he was licking uh Cabbages. Which is legal in New York 'cause it is legal because it all go it all goes out in the wash. That cat's looking the cabbages, but it's not rats are not eating the cabbage, right? It's probably getting rid of the soot, I think, is the thing. It is. It's doing some sort of particularly sooty cabbage, so Kiwi is licking her lips. What is that? Uh is that just like a carrot random carrot sitting down there in the cabbage? The carrots up were up there. They've fallen from down blow. It's so great for me at from a distance to watch you guys there back east. Living your life. Living the life. Uh, we do uh this show, this wonderful show, uh Intelligent Machines every Wednesday, two PM Pacific, five PM Eastern, twenty two hundred U T C. Watch it. Uh on Twitch, TikTok, X, Facebook, LinkedIn. Uh, YouTube and Kick, but not TikTok. I lied. Uh it's also on Discord if you are in the club. So get in the club. After the fact on demand versions of the show available at twit.tv slash IM U They're also on YouTube. There's video on YouTube, and of course the best way to get it, subscribe to either audio or video or both in your favorite podcast. Apologies to people who uh Listen to Mac Break Weekly, there was uh one of our providers was down for like fifteen hours and it confused Apple Podcasts so much That Apple said, No, you have to pay for this show. That is not the case. Our shows are free. You can pay for it. We love it if you pay for it, but you don't have to. So if you uh had trouble getting Mac Break Weekly yesterday, uh check again. It's fine. We fixed it. And if you're ever, you know, told by one of these predatory and shitifying mega corporations you have to pay for this show, you tell 'em. No. Leo says it's free. Free, free, free. Thanks for subscribing for those of you who do. Thanks for listening. For all of you. We appreciate it. We'll see you next time. I won't be here next time, I should mention. Jason Hyer will be hosting They're putting him in the old folks' home, finally. Finally. Going to Florida. That's what I mean. Yep. Yep. Yep. Can't wait. It's what it is. Uh we'll see you next time. Bye bye. 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