Managing Stress and Online Trolls

It's crazy. Yeah, and they're so mean . Like the comments are so mean, but no one some people did and more people now well in the books coming out, but so many people didn't think who is this woman posting this? It was just an entitled white mom, not this is a forensic single white mom. Single. The media had me single too , but not a forensic psychologist who's actually sat down just like you and asked predators what went through your head before you killed that girl ? Yeah , yeah, I know most people don't really understand what it's like to sit with and interact with a true psychopath for significant periods of time. Can you explain that? It's highly highly uncomfortable and creepy and there's this constant feeling that you're being observed and sized up and looking to be taken advantage of in any . And the second the slightest boundary is broken, there is this looking for opportunity to break yet another boundary that goes just a tiny bit deeper and you can see where the cascade is heading. It's so nuanced. And it's not, I mean, sometimes the word psychopath is thrown around very loosely . Sometimes you know with men in machismo, they even I'm a psychopath. No, you're not and that's not something you want to claim or you want to be. You don't know what you're talking about. From a clinical sense, it's a terrifying and scary thing to see their empty eyes sitting across from you, knowing they they've killed people. Yeah, they look for they look for opportunities. I just saw something in news the other day about somebody that I think abducted abducted a woman in a parking lot in her car. I didn't see that. Yeah. So yeah, I mean trusting your instincts about safety is more important than certain superficial societal norms and morals that really have no value or meaning when it comes down to it. I know. It's crazy to me. Like that was I don't remember when it was like twenty twenty four when that video went viral where I said I wouldn't return my shopping cart. And it was like a couple days after that a little baby got stabbed to death in a parking lot while the mom was unloading groceries from the shopping cart . And no, like the world did not want to acknowledge that that had occurred and it was horrible it was like a stabbing. It was horrible . Yeah, it's really horrible. But we run to psychopath. We forget about schizophrenia , we forget about psychosis and all the other mental health disorders. The stuff we see in the news, these people have it all. It's like a combination of all of it. Now Luigi Luigi Mang ioni, I don't really know what the deal is with him. I'm not sure either. They were going to say it was an emotional crisis and then they took that off the table. I think they're going to put it back on the table right before . They were going to say it was an emotional crisis , but then they realized that if they said that they had to provide all of his psych history, and then his trial's not till September . So then they pulled it off the table because they didn't want to have the prosecution you know get all that time with that information. So they'd have to make the argument that the emotional crisis led to like a not guilty by reason of insanity plea that well it would be manslaughter. . Well, that seems like a tough . How do you make an emotional crisis plea when he planned it, he journaled it, he wrote a manifesto. He made the gun himself in a three D printer. It seems like a weak argument. I don't see that going very try it and then we start trial in September . I say we, but I'm not a part of the case yet. I mean, if they're going to do that, they may as well try for not guilty by reason of insanity. They could still try that with manslaughter. Well, I don't see the case for either one, but I'm just saying if I'm putting on that hat and if you're trying for emotional crisis because I mean that's essentially what you're saying is that he didn't know the difference between right and wrong because he was in such an emotional crisis. Yeah. So you may as well go for not guilty by reason of insanity, which I don't think is going to work. I don't think that he's going to get it because there's too much, as you're saying, premeditation, organization , planning . It doesn't sound like there's a strong history of mental illness leading leading up to it. Really not . There's no evidence that he was delusional or hallucinating that I'm aware of . He was angry. Planned ahead. I can't see that case. I can't see him winning. I can see him getting life or death. Yeah yeah, yeah. I would love to be a part of it, though. I don't think I'd be surprised if he gets the death penalty, but I think he probably will get lifted. It's New York, right? Yeah, I mean, I guess he could, I guess he could. Yeah. If you had to die by death penalty, how would you choose to die? Firing squad is an option. Lethal injection. What are the electrocution? Stoning. Oh, that sounds awful, so I'll still scratch off stoning right away. Electrocution sounds pretty bad. Fast though. Lethal injection, but there was some case in the news where that went wrong. You see your lungs fill up and somebody died like a horrible death. Down, basically. I guess at this point, I would take firing squad. Do you know how many shots they would fire? Like, what if somebody like hit your brain but didn't kill you? Would they keep shooting you? Well, they have, you know, a medic or doctor or corner on scene to immediately assess whether or not you're still alive. Like are you tied up to vitals so they know like pup you done? There's something like that or ' incause that creepy fucking show we're watching right now, she shot herself in the head. There's somebody there to take your vitals immediately. What do you think of the Amy Adams show in the beginning where she fucking shot her head and then she woke up again and shot herself again. Yeah, that was pretty creepy. That was creepy. Yeah . It stuck with me. I don't have nightmares about anything, but that show is giving me nightmares. That's a pretty creepy show. But I can't stop watching it. What's it called? Cape Fear? Cape Fear. Yeah, it's pretty well done. Like two forensic psychologists and we're it holds your attention . The main character does, I think, a pretty good job of playing all somebody that has psychopathic traits, the way you feel watching you feel uncomfortable. The way that he interacts, that's kind of how they make you feel. The only other person is not just periodically, it's all the time. Right. When he did you see the ice cream scene? It's not something they just like turn on and off. It's just a way of existing. Did you see the ice cream scene with the girl ? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's like Joaquin Phoenix played it really well in the Joker. Like you're he did you're constantly anticipating being shocked. Somebody who's, you know, in the realm of not guilty by reason of insanity, that's how it feels. It's this constant state of this person feels really unpredictable in front of me and I don't know because they could come across the table at me at any moment. That's it. And then you've got to do like a fucking four hour interview with them and try and try to prevent them from coming across the table and beating the shit out of you. Yeah, it was highly, highly unpredictable and you know that at a moment's notice anything you say can be interpreted so wrongly and personally and twisted and distorted by something very benign that you say isn't even necessarily pressing or challenging. It's like that guy I met once and he was I knew he was hearing voices and then I got this sense in my body that he was having command hallucinations and that changed everything because those are so much more dangerous when they believe the voices , the voices are telling them to do bad things and they feel compelled to have to do it. And I in that moment sat across from him and I was like, he's listening to them. They're telling him to do something to me . I just knew. And so I asked him like, I didn't even say, like, are you hearing voices? I just straight up said What are they telling you? And he was shocked. And I could tell he was still trying to listen to them, but he wanted to answer me. And he said, They're telling me to snatch your earrings . And I said, Well, you can let them know that I'm just going to hand them over to you. And he said they don't want them anymore . And then we never talked about him hearing voices . Yeah, I can remember when I worked in the jail system when I this would be twenty years ago when I first started out doing clinical work and you know in one of those attorney rooms doing an intake and you know, I was really new and limited with like understanding of clinical things and skill set and I had a pen on the table and one of the questions was about hallucinations. I said, you know, you hallucinate you hear voices? Yeah, I do. Okay, how often when's the last time you heard him? I'm hearing him now. Okay, well what are they telling you? And he said they're telling me to pick up that pen and stab you in the eye. And so I really slowly like re ached across the table and took the pen. Yeah. 'Cause the, you know, the command hallucinations, you know, often because they get so bombarded and just tortured and terrorized by them that , you know, oftentimes what they'll report is the only way that they get a break is to eventually do what they say is the only way they will go away and they don't go away permanently, but at least they get rid of unless they're on medication and they're having treatment, they can go away, but otherwise doing what they say is the way to get rid of them. That's what a difficult what an existence. It's fucking terrifying. It's rare. Most people it's rare schizophrenia are not dangerous, but that's when they when they're command . Right. Yes, most that's I think very important to say is that most people that have psychosis are not dangerous or not dangerous. These are out liers . But we only worked with the outliers. Like we were in the warehouses with them. . We can share stories of people pulling their eyeballs out. Yeah . That's not a normal husband wife conversation . No. So I think that helps us not sweat the small stuff in life, going back. It's super hard to pull your eyeball out. Like there's all these muscles attached once the eye is out, dragging it on a wall and you're handcuffed and it's just not and then they still see the visual hallucinations even without even being blind . That's the kind of shit. That's the depth of the warehouse mentally ill just what movies won't even cover that we've seen and endured. I don't think people have ever even heard stories like that. But then we also have to be like lighthearted and answer relationship questions. So what was the original question? Did we answer it? I don't remember . I don't remember I'm so tired . Is that light hearted? What? Is that light hearted? Which one? What was the original question . How did we get here? I don't know. My reframe after talking about eyeball flucking. Oh, I don't know. No. That's okay. We can end it on taking your eyeball out. People have a lot of eyeball figures. We yeah, rightfully so we've both had eye surgery so we're a little more able to talk about it. Okay, so comment or email , I don't know, message me, tell me if you like my husband and if we should do this again because I think we should like carve out a night a week. He's rolling his eyes . Well, I didn't roll my eyes. Okay, you circled them and you threw your head back. Well, I'm thinking my eyes widened as I was thinking how we're gonna find the time. That's all. We found it. Difference between an eyeball widening and an eyeball rolling. They went like circular, like you had like seizure ish. No, it was a widening. I don't think it was a circle circle. It was like a disheartened negative surprise. I'm not sure I like this with my wife. I'd rather be watching football or baseball or soccer. No , I do like it. I don't know about weekly. Well, it's not up to you. It's up to the audience. Okay, and they're gonna tell us. Okay , fair enough. Like that one guy who said he's coming to me. Great. Let's hear more from them. Thanks for joining intentionally disturbing, which we'll probably have to change the name, the Less and West show. Sure, there we go. You look really happy West and less. West and less. My name needs to be first because I'm the main okay we can dive into misogyny and midwest men. So that was a joke you wanted me to make a joke. Yeah that was my joke I will take your last name eventually. No, I probably never will because the paper paperwork is just too hard . Well, no, in the paperwork, illegally it's already it's hyphenated, but it's hyphenated. It's the paperwork . I think the separation is appropriate. It started at their names. Yeah. Well, yeah, because you won't get doctor Docs, and I will there's only one Dr. Leslie. No, just kidding. There's another one. She's got millions of dollars. Separately initially for a reason. Safety . Right. Not related to before your podcast and social media. You don't need a bunch of reviews about shopping carts like I have. You would get like thrown into the shopping cart. I would just probably not read them. Okay guys, thanks for listening to whatever this was. Welcome back to another episode of intentionally disturbed. That's bad. Okay . Welcome back to another episode of intentionally disturbing. This is a special one. It's audio only because no one gets to see my husband but me . So we have my husband, a clinical and forensic psychologist here today to do a little Q and A based on questions from social media. Our first question is not a question. It's a comment saying keep your marriage private. Too many nutcases out there. What are your thoughts on that hus,band? What's an interesting comment? It's very, very relevant. It's valid. Can be a rich topic of discussion. What do you actually think about it? You don't do social media. Nobody knows who you are. And I want to do a podcast with you. Do you feel pressured by me? Maybe a little but not in a negative way. I think yeah yeah, keeping certain aspects of marriage private is certainly valuable but other aspects I think are , you know, can be important to share, especially when it comes to professional relationships and how that can be used to navigate a healthy marriage. Yeah, I mean, I think the way we fight or we don't really fight, but the way we handle communication, things like that can be a solid example and educational for people listening. Yeah, I think there are definitely positive things to share that people may find , you know, hopefully useful . But then yeah, there's other aspects certainly that'll always remain private. Yeah. So many more aspects will remain private than are shared. Yes, yes. But that's a very good question though. I think it probably stems from, you know, there's just a lot of examples when people , you know, in marriages start showing, you know, or sharing more of their life on whether that's social media or podcast or TV and things start going badly . And I think people wonder if that's a reflection of being too public with private information or it could also just be a reflection of deeper issues that were already happening. Like why we became psycholog ists? Yeah, like that. That's another thing to keep private. Okay , maybe some of it. Do you debrief each other after you've had a traum atic therapy session. I feel like we can answer this question early on in our careers and now. So yeah, the answer to that is sometimes I think that happened more, more so early on sort of using each other consult with or like I talked through counter transference and things like that, but I think less so as counter transfer at least for me as time has gone on there's just less and less of a need to do that over time, but occasionally I think you got a head start though because you were in forensics and working in the jails before I was. So like I had you to lean on my traumas came after . I mean, you were you took me to the LA County Jail. You helped guide me on my first practicum . Yeah, I remember that what to expect or not, you know , and how to have boundaries and how to navigate an entirely different world . And then every time I witnessed an assault at different places , you know, or felt like my life was threatened, you were always the one who calmed me down. Like you just weren't as bothered by the violence as I was. So I guess the thing so I needed to debrief more than you early on. I think that's true that's true. Do you like being my therapist? I had some more experience going into it, but I was always bothered by it on a personal level in terms of having to worry about you and think about your safety nothing about your own. Like I was worried about you yeah, yeah. There I mean there's been occasions where I worried about myself, but not, you know, terribly of, but there's there's definitely at least a few that stand out . But yeah, more so you. That was like the sweetest answer. I like being your therapist. Do you like being my therapist? The sweetest answer. I like being your therapist when it's like not boring stuff . Right. When it's like when it's boring work stuff, like policy administrative writing I don't like administrative things I don't like policy and that's why I wish you had a real therapist. Co worker relationships, not as interesting. Government coworker relationships. Yeah . I mean, they can be, I mean in certain settings, they can be extremely interesting. I don't have any coworkers now and I fucking love it. It's attorneys law,y all day . Okay , did you follow the Nancy Guthrie case at all? Have you been following that? Not really . Okay, we won't go into that one. I would love to know how you fight and then how you also raise your kids. You laugh. That's a good question. We raise our kids differently. We have a little bit of different theory on it. We really don't do much fighting. I mean, we had a very stern conversation when I bought that chair next to your baseball card collection on the wall. Yeah, it was really in my way . I mean, yeah, we fight out. We don't. When I hear fighting in other relationships, I'm shocked because it's like the lack of communication that led to such a fight. Yeah . So if we're fighting, it's like we've misunderstood each other. Yeah, and just talking through it and to getting to a point of trying to understand it, maybe sometimes those conversations can get a little drawn out or a little, I mean, maybe at times tense or overly analytical or intense, they should say. To psychology . Yeah. That can happen periodically, but not I don't think as frequently as people might think you don't really not analyzing each other that much. And that's a common question I get a lot is, you know, are you analyzing me in person al relationships? You know, and the answer is no. There's a lot of effort that goes into psychoanalyzing . Yeah, like when you're paid for it. The last thing I want to do when I'm not at work. I mean , or in a situation where it's interesting to me or I enjoy it, but not on a personal level because I don't I don't want to . I mean, we want to just appreciate the person in front of me as, you know, who they are as a friend, not as a patient or a client. And I know I wouldn't want to be treated that way or thought of that way in casual relationships. I think I'm different like that. Like okay, to answer the first question, we have young kids, so we don't have a great deal of time to argue. Yeah, that's true. There's not a lot of time energy kids and jobs and work and gym and health and just trying to maintain life. But you have so to choose your battles. I one hundred percent analyze like everyone I meet all the time, and maybe that's me or maybe that's being a female. Maybe. But I run through like a whole series of analysis. I don't do that. I only do it in casual or personal relationships when I feel like it's necessary. I don't always feel like it's necessary. I don't feel like I can turn it off . But again, like when we're around violence, you worry about being by yourself. Yeah. Like when you get into your car, do you check to see if there's a monster in there trying to rape you? No . When you're walking back from the gym and you're in an underground parking lot, you worry about your safety ? No. When you go for a walk at night and it's dark, would you have both earpods in and not care? Depends where I am. In our neighborhood no, I wouldn't yeah, I would be okay with it. But then I could never certain neighborhoods that I've been in or lived no , no, I wouldn't have been okay with it. So for me, I mean a little bit more context . Yeah. But if we're in the dark side of Chicago . Right. I'm more concerned. I'm more vigilant. It's different than Orange County. Yes. But I carry the weight of the Chicago vigilance in Orange County. Yeah, I understand your point. As we sit next to our black German shepherd who's staring out the window at something. Yeah . Who you didn't want? You didn't want a dog. Your focus was on who's gonna pick up her shit and now you're obsessed with her. Well, and for almost a decade you had our child's picture on your phone and you switched it and now it's the dog. She's a good dog. And from Mother's Day, you bought me a German shevered t shirt. She's very special. And he's petting her right now. He's grip. Okay. Well , she came over to me as you were talking. She acts like a baby with you and you treat her like you use a high pitched voice . And you don't use it with the kids. Yeah, I acknowledge that. She doesn't cuddle me. She protects me. You protect her. You act like she's two pounds. She's a big girl. Okay. The other part how we raise our kids, I think we I'm not good at staying on track. I think we let them try to figure things out themselves as much as we can and give them a sense of independence and I don't know intervene or guide when yeah it seems needed or necessary I think giving them room to make mistakes and they sure make a lot of mistakes . Yeah, give them space to make mistakes and not be overly critical or harsh when they do, but at the same time, you know, I mean holding them accountable and you know, expecting them to do better the next time or learn to from mistakes . We definitely I don't know if you would call it adultifying, but like we talk to them like they're a bit older and we use normal language and we stay away from slang and they know they are empowered . They have boundaries . Yeah . When our daughter, you know, like if somebody's flirting with her in elementary school and she doesn't like it, she will verbalize that she doesn't like it. No, no, they're they're very very verbal. I mean, they will never they're they're very they're very assertive very assertive. They're very assertive. They're very comfortable in their skin and their confidence. I think we're also not afraid to say no to them. I think that's important to have boundaries and to be able to say no at times. I think we model it. Yeah , yeah, and I think it helps them to have boundaries in response and to know that, you know, there are limits, something else I was going to add, but I forgot. There's also a lot of joy and laughing and roasting each other in the house . Yeah, I think , you know, we find a balance of trying to not take ourselves too seriously when we don't need to. Yes. Like when they're laughing so hard, they fart. And if anyone wants to know no, no, we don't fart in front of each other. No . Okay, here's a good one. You hate me right now. Here's a good one. Talk about how he believes that we can get men to actually change and stop being abusive douchebags. Oh, that's a really good quest ion. I think putting it out there and saying it just like that. Yeah , is a really good start and people yeah, putting that out in the open and being really direct and assertive about it and calling it out when they see it, whether that's through social media , movies, TV, books, research , and just I think consistently saying that's not acceptable, that's not okay. I see what you're doing. I recognize what you're doing, and it's not appropriate. It's not acceptable. How do we actually do that though? Well, I think we're moving in that direction. I mean, I have a platform and I do it on the platform. You day to day, though . I mean, you see people and you 'll call them out, you'll stop things. You'll intervene if shit's going down in like a store . Well, that and my job part of that is, you know, to talk about and call out inappropriate behaviors when they're when they're present as a psychologist. And you work with predominantly men as well. Predominantly, yeah. Did you lose your voice? No, I just had to cough. But yeah, I mean, I think that's a that's an ongoing de ep issue and discussion. How to create a change, I think talking about it, you know, an important place to start and identifying that it's there and calling it out for what it is and holding people accountable. When you cough, can you like stop and then restart your sentence and hold the microphone closer to your face? Yeah, it's working. I mean, a good example is I thought , I mean late night hosts always aren't questionable, but Jimmy Fallon had Connor McGregor on his show. Connor McGregor raped a girl last year. Yeah, I saw that your video on that. And I think that 's a perfect example of saying, you know, how you're not you're supporting this or you're accidentally reinforcing this by not drawing a boundary and saying this is not acceptable, especially when the person has given no indication of accountability or remorse or no , you know, want to not only be around that person but or you know benefit from them in terms of fortune or fame or whatever. But is this why I think we need a podcast together or you need one because you're level headed, grounded, normal . We don't have leaders like you right now. You lead your work and the institution you work for, but you're not you're not fighting against incels or teenage boys. You think they just need robots or aggressive relationships because they will never get a girl on their own. No, I don't have a social media presence. Part of that is, I think a time factor. You do now. Let me know if you want. I didn't I didn't even have yeah, Instagram before you did this. Okay , a question. We tend to attract and seek out a nervous system that feels similar, the spark . Do you feel your relationship was driven by these dynamics? That's an interesting question. So it was driven by what? Exactly. Like a spark. Yeah. It's how long have we been together? Like twenty years? Yeah. Has it really been twenty years? Almost, let's see. Seventeen. Oh, shit. I was gonna say like fourteen. Seventeen and then thirteen years of marriage. Hm m. Yeah. So we met in grad school and I tried so hard to get you to date me . Like I was wearing I was like going to Victoria's secret, I was wearing a little short s, I was like reaching for things high up in closets for no reason . I don't remember that. 'Cause you weren't looking. I had pink written across my ass. Well, you were like doing your fishing lure line or studying ? Well, fishing I thought you were just trying to use me to for my homework and to cheat off my homework. I was, but also I did. I had moved across the country and I knew no one and I had I was inviting you to study groups constantly and I was just gonna be the only one there. No there was a group and I and you were pretty intent on getting my answers, but I don't know, I just had I was You didn't pick up on my flirting and you didn't date me because you thought you wanted to steal your homework. No, I didn't pick up I don't think I picked up on it because I was hy soper focused on, you know, I had just boat loads of student loan debt and I had so much student loan debt and I was so hyper focused on getting through graduate school that, you know, if I if I don't get through this, how am I going to pay off all of this money? And I was just super focused. And then I was focused on you. And then at one point, I think, you know, it was clear how focused you all so we were both focused on the same things and then we both became focused on each other. I mean, I did have to take it more serious over time because you couldn't even get a B minus so you'd get kicked out. Yeah , I think maybe that was part of it as I wasn't sure in the beginning how serious . Yeah, you were you were you were taking it and then I don't know. Yeah, I think our focus is just aligned both with career goals and each other eventually . I don't think it took that long. I feel like it took forever . I mean, we were friends for a little while first, which I think is a positive thing. That's a whole other topic. Okay, I want to hit up . Yeah, there was always somewhat of a there was always a spark, I guess you could call it. We're just very different people too. You're like a quiet fisherman and I try to be just like a sparkly bouncing ball p,ing pong ball. Yeah , I'd say both are true. Is that how you really? Yeah, that's fair. You're like a quiet analytical card collecting fisherman. I like the water. I like the outdoors. I like is silence peaceful. Yeah. I don't like silence because then I'm not being productive. We have to help as many people as humanly possible as quickly as possible in our lifetime. Ooh, this is a good question for you. How do you stay calm and obser vant when our society is overcharged and divisive and just fucking falling apart. Yeah, that's a good question. I think, you know, some days are more difficult than others to do that. I mean I, yell at you you when're in the man cave and I'm in the women's cove and you've got the news on at nine PM and it's so loud. Well maybe you watch the fucking problem you do . When I come in here I, hear your TV , it's just it sounds like they're whispering. I don't know how you hear any of it. But well, you do have a hearing problem because of all these concerts you went to. I don't know, maybe yeah. But yeah, how current hydrogen whispering. I'm watching housewives of Beverly Hill . The women scream . They're not whispering. Cursed at each other. I don't know how that's relaxing to you. It's so relaxing. It puts my mind at ease. I don't know if that works, it works. There's science behind it. It's like it has to it's like ADHD, you need a stimulant to calm down. Yeah, I know that's what Bravo does for me. I get it. And you on the other hand, what needs CNN? Sports, I mean, I'm mainly sports.s help me What sports? I like them all. I like 'em all. But mainly, you know, football, baseball, basketball, top three. Hockey if the Black Hawks are doing well. So Wes came home one day and he turned to me and like every kids and he was like, Is anyone gonna say they're happy for me? And everyone just kind of froze like what the fuck are you talking about ? And what did you say? Maybe that was when the bears won. No, you were like , football season started. Oh, that's right. Football season started. Yeah, that makes sense. And none of us get. So I mean, yeah, I think that's how I deal with current current events when they get stressful as I lean into, I don't know, healthy outlets that are healthy distractions and try to take a break from thinking about it. Not letting it consume me. I mean, certainly being aware of what's going on , but also not letting letting it consume me. Whether that's through social media or through the news, taking news fast. It's hard. I mean, especially with me 'cause I try to I want to give people up to date information every day, but it becomes overwhelming. That's really difficult for you. I don't I'm not sure how you do it. That would be 'cause you don't you don't Pilates helps. Yeah. Yeah, that's the other thing I would say. I really like going to the gym. Yeah. That's I think another positive I mean, you were at the gym for like five hours on Father's Day. Yeah, I like that I think another healthy outlet where I don't think about all these things. Take a break from it. Lifting weights. Yeah . And not stretching. You're gonna get injuries if you don't stretch . Yeah, I'm not I'm not that my pilates instructor like really wants her hands on you. Magan. I don't think I'm built for that. I wanted somebody just wrote a comment , why is this recommended on my feed, which I think is funny because one fuck you, I don't know who you are, but two go clearly the algorithm wants you to listen to me, but the trolls that come after me. How do you feel about that? Because some of it gets pretty fucking dark. Yeah, I don't I mean, I think it bothered me. I mean, it still bothers me. It would bother me more in the beginning. And I think just realizing, you know, and maybe that's also another part of dealing with world events and news is just, you know, what I can control, accepting what I can control and what I can't. Like I can't go and fight every internet keyboard bully and expect to change their mind or their worldview. It's just not realistic and it's also not healthy. I can't do that. So I think over time I just I stop reading it. I just don't read it. Yeah, you shouldn't. No, I don't I don't think it's healthy because yeah, it's a platform where people can just easily say the most ridiculous things and inappropriate things and meaning. And you don't even know if it's a real person. You don't even know that and it's, yeah, you can't. I mean, literally you have to find a way to take it personally . And I think that's kind of similar with our careers because you hear , you know, information or feedback or you get that can sometimes be really crude and rude and mean and cruel and inappropriate. And I think in some ways we've already learned as part of our experience and training to not take it personally and sometimes that's easier than others. I'm still learning that on the social media side . Yeah. The psychology side, though, it's like, but I think the same thing applies to social media, but I think it's just it's new. We're learning how to apply it. It's new . And it's different when you see it in writing and other people see it and they like it. They like a negative comment. Like what is that? What is it just kind of bizarre? I'm like, what do you why is this person wasting their time and energy doing this? Like what is wrong with you that you want to tear down somebody I don't know anyway that's a I mean internet bullying is a whole topic in itself.