Yacht Club Games Design Philosophy

Welcome to Into the Aher. It's a low key video game podcast. My name is Brendan Bigley. My name is Stephen Helger. Welcome back, BB. Thank you so much. That was all the energy I had was that intro. It was amazing. 'cause we just said any percent, you were like Wake wake We got a minutes of you snoring and you screaming at me to wake the fuck up. That was a promise. Yeah, o, full disclosure. I have been in California, which is for everybody the opposite end of the United States from where I usually am. I've been there for about three days, just enough time to start getting used to the time zone and then took a red eye back whichich means I got on a plane at eleven last night and then got back this morning at seven. And here we are recording a podcast a couple hours later. So it's gonna be a weird one for me. Buckle up everybody, but we're gonna get through it. I love tired, Brendon. I think you're kind at your most creatively open. There's no inhibition here Whatsoever, man. It's like thought to mouth. You think we should reserve recording for when you're really tired off a flight and I have like a deep illness, like a sort flu of some kind. Oh my God, I think that's gonna be too powerful to capture three file. That's the I'm have to upload that one as a wave file to people.'s like's forty five gigabyte episode of I the Aher, just so you can hear every nuance of how sick you are and how low and gravellly my voice can be when I've just gotten off a plane. We reserved that for the half lifeife two bonus. They finally got to it and they're deeply ill and tired. Yeah. P bon citizen. I can't. I'm too sick I'm sniffy. Anyway, I think you wanted to catch up on some stuff becauseve you've been traveling during all the summer game bestest stuff. Yeah, so funny to launch overworld a website that aggregates video game news and then immediately go on a trip during the biggest week of video game news. Yeah. Actually I want to talk more about that because I don't think we've really talked about that on. Oh yeah. I do yeah, let me give a quick shout out to Brett who sent me a DM on Blue Sky and was like, Hi, I follow you like across all of the media you do and I didn't know that you made Overworld. You should talk about it. Thank you, Brett, for giving me the nudge. I'm always so reticent to talk about stuff. I don't I'm the same way.'re the same way We're both the same way. We can spot in each other. That's why we're friends. Yes. My friend and I Pablo made a website that's called Overworld. It's an idea that's been kicking around for like a decade at this point for us, which is a website that takes the RSS feeds of like every video game news website and kind of feeds them into one website where it like matches stories about the same thing and then kind of ranks the page based on how much coverage a thing is getting. So the idea is you go to overworld.Vg and it's like just a one stop shop for everything you need in terms of video game news for the day and it's constantly updating. and I'm constantly in the backkend updating it and managing it and making sure that the stories that are surfacing are ones where you could like at a glance get an idea of what's going on. But also the idea is just to be like driving more traffic to video game news websites in an era where like Google search traffic is going to zero because of their AI nightmare shit And there's also a release calendar for video games if you just want to see what games are coming out. It's a fun project and it's really fun to work on. It's been a blast to make and the response has been great and launched it during Summer Games Fest Week, just because it was like, this is probably the highest volume of news we'll ever get Throughout all of twenty twenty six until maybe when GTA six launches, but even then I think even that is like a little bit easier to manage than like, here's Summer Games Fest live stream and the forty five announcements that come out of that two hour live stream. And like how do you put all of that on a page that is only showing twenty five news stories? is like a a lot of questions like that needed to be answered and then kind of just put into practice. And it's been really fun and it's working really well, which is great. It did break during the PlayStation say to play And then we fixed it, which is nice. And I don't think anybody noticed except us, which is also fine. But yeah, reallyally fun. honestly. So I was in a car driving from the airport to where we were staying in in the Sonoma Valley while the Summer Games Fest stream was happening and then I, you know got to like hop into the site and then manage it like around when the stream ended, but I did watch the last fifteen minutes of it Which was like the best fifteen minutes to watch off the state of play? No of the summer Games fest. the Jeff Keeeley excitement hour. I caught the middle fifteen minutes and then I had to run errands. So Yeah togetherether we've seen some of it. Yeah. Yeah, I caught up on the announcements afterwards, but watching live, it was like Jeff introducing the end of it, which was great Because I don't know. you and I are kind of on the same wavelengths where it's like summerar Game Fest increasingly is like a tough watch, you know, But from what I heard from you know, we have our group chat that we always have of a bunch of people who are always like, we do like a watch along with this stuff. And everyone was like, it's actually a pretty good one this year. So that's nice to hear at least. Yeah, I think's hard to per jud because like there are obviously like individual announcements I'm really excited about. Yeah. The show sort of becomes a vacuum, you know, alongside that or like it's hard to know like what I' what the show is bringing outside of like these individual announcements happening, but I think there was a time where I was maybe more constructively rooting for events like totally Game Awards and Summer Game Fest. and at this point, I've kind of accepted they are what they are and I'm more interested in sort of the more specific events happening around Smmer Game Fest. Yeah. Right. L like the wholesome direct this year was where we got the one point zero release for Fields of Mystery. So I actually thought that was a dream. I saw that Yeah And my brain like refused to like accept that as reality. I was no, that's a dream. Like that kind of stuff I'm really excited about. Like a lot of the like kind of ancillary events around Summer Games Fest I think had some really great stuff. But suummer Games Fest this year, I mean, like I wrote down a list of some things I was excited about from that stream. Chief among them. Actually, wait, quick, let me back up. Yeah, yeah Elephant in the room, This episode is coming out the day after Nintendo Direct. Yeah, so there's a pretty big chance that we've recorded something very strange that's been named something Yeah so off putting that it will get like a thousand downloads instead of our usual And'll immediately get burried by this episode Yes. If the Nintendo Direct is as exciting as we want it to be We'll record something like we usually do. It's been referred to as leakage, but there may be a leakage before this episode. But as of right now, this is being recorded on Monday, june eighth. So as of right now Nintendo like just announced that recording this. I you know here we did this last time. Maybe we can record predictions. Oh can stamp them with the right or wrong sound effect. Okay. We did that with the Switch two event, I think Okay, here it comes There we go Prediction number one. So there's a Nintendo Treehouse after. It's like another hour and a half that they're doing after the Nintendo Direct. I'm predicting forty five minutes of that will be sppllatoon raiders Oh, fascinating. I think they're going to show off so much Slplatoon Raiders tomorrow. Well because that is like coming out next month. So that It's coming soon. and it's also reached a point where it's been shown off like three or four times and still there are people posting articles that are like, I don't know what this video game is. So I think they really need to do a better job clarifying why people should be excited about Spllatoon Raiders. And I think the best way to do that is probably just to show an unbelievable amount of extended gameplay at the treehouse. That' That was actually just very earnest prediction. I just really think that's going to happen. We can have some funny ones, but I just I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm like, they need to show me Splatoonaiders. I'm excited about it, but like, yeah, that does, I think require like an explanation more than their other announcements do. Yeah, it's kind of like when they announced Splatoon for the first time and it really wasn't until the treehouse dreams where I was like, o, I get why this is fun. Like it's it's cool looking. Yeah. but I needed to see it in action and in motion to really get my head around it. And now anytime they announce like a numbered Splatoon sequel, I'm like, I'm on pardy, You don' need tell me anything about it actually. But Splatoon Raiders in particular feels like it needs a little bit more explanation. I think that there will be a few announcements of like a specifically Capcom Bringing more games to the Sitch too. Like I wouldn't be surpris if we get a reveal that like, I don't know, the Code Veronica remake is also coming into Switch two or something. Yes. Yeah. they announced I think it's summer Gain It was it summer Gamesest they announced that Monster Hunter Wilde is coming to swwitch two. Yeah, you know maybe maybe might be I'm also expecting, maybe not at this direct, but I'll just say so I can be ranked right or wrong, I won't couch this, but I think that metaphor or personersona three reload will also get a swwitch two port. Persona three releload is on Switch two. Oh it is already. Yes. I guess that's correct. so you can give me aail it Nailed it But I just think like I know that the four remake, which I'm sure we'll shadow that a bit. Yeah Persona four remake, not confirmed for Sitch two. right. Metaphor still not on Switch two. I think it's been long enough since metetaphor that I could see them wanting to give metaphor like another boost. Yeah, I feel like it's kind of like left the conversation in a way that it shouldn't have because that came fucking owns. Yeah I think I mean, it' it's I would say with metaphor, like not that there aren't things to critique about it, but it reminds me of what we've said many times about Uncharted four where it's like if a game is just like good Yeah, it just like and there's nothing like super there's no like discourse around it. It just like happens like it's like o yeah, that was fun M. Yeah, the most discourse there is about it is like the political theory of the ending, which is kind of hard to hard to get into unless you've played through it. You know, actuallyually it was funny. we were talking about that in the discord the other day because I think the more critical reviews of metaphor without spoiling it, I think people I've seen the take of like this feels pretty safe And maybe even kind of like neoliberal in terms of like its worldview. And while I agree that it's not like maybe the ultra progressive message that one would hope for, I think that it's speaking very broadly in its politics. And I think like because it's ultimately a game where you fight God at the end, I think it kind of has to take broad Not to settle for less, but I just think that like I still found that game to be very moving and have something to say during an election year. Like I found that to be one of the more powerful parts of it is like, you, my takeaway from that game is more that like rather than it maybe fully getting behind one position, it's more about like it's more important to just actually help people and talk to them face to face than to get on a stage and wax poetic about what you might do. Yeah. you know, R. One of my favorite subplots in that game is like slowly unradicalizing your conservative cousins. like the Magnus brothers is like, oh, no, my two cousins were unfortune too much. I have to bring them back to the land. Right. Yeah, they really fell down the YouTube Yes, exact man is around h. Yeah So yeah, but I'm curious if that will come to switch two. Okay, here's a more concrete prediction. I think there's no chance in hell we don't get a release state for fire emblem Fortune S Weeave. Yeah, if that game is coming out this year, we will have a release date for it. which they did say they did it's not even a rumor. like the last trailer said twenty twenty six. Yeah. I guess what I'm saying is like if the rumors that it's coming out this summer are false, then I would hope we would still get a release date. Yeah, right If it's like maybe a winter next year if they have to play it So my first prediction for an easy yay you or nay here. firearum release date. Yes. And then I would guess just for fun that it will be coming out in August. I think it's an August release. Totally. I think July is a little too soon to announce it right now. And I think September and October is veering into the like end of the year games. So I think August is kind of, if it is coming out this year, I think August makes the most sense Okay, here's a real swing, Ready? Yeah, that's. The Ocara of Time remake is real. Molith is the developer. I think there's a good chance that that's true Yes, them updating their website with Zelda stuff on it. You know, I know they've been a support team for they're kind of incredible on a lot of stuff. Yeah. But I think that they I think they were given the reins. That's my That's my that's my big guess. I think they were like given full control over a Zelda and it's going to be that is maybe the thing that will make the Ocaring of time Remake exciting to people. I will love that The the cutscenes in Ocarina have that kind of Xenoblade by the campfire feel to them. Like saying goodbye to Saria is right out of Zenoblade. I feel like that shot of her on the bridge. just give them Australia and like it's a Xenoblade game. I just replayed the first two hours of Ocarina of time lastast week just while I was testing a handheld just to see how it ran in sixty four and I was like again, like so blown away by that sequence. It It's really devastating. And that's that's why I'm excited like, you know, remakes I know are a contentious topic as always. but like I do think that game is not like if you're if you're younger than us, there's a good chance you never played it I do think it's old enough that I wouldn't mind having like an easier version to pitch people. You know, I'm definitely not in favor of just like, oh, it's old, therefore you need to brush it up. But like, I don't know, I mean, at this point, I would say that like I think the three D S version is the better version to play than the N sixty four one. And like I just I just think that that story, similar to like the persona three remake, it's like that story is important enough and special enough that I think any way you can experience it most easily, I'm in favor of that. That's kind of how I see this particular Rake case Yeah. You know, remaking the God of War Greek trilogy is like a non sequ orter to me. Like that's a case where I'm like this is who knows? Maybe they'll be great, but it's like those games are widely available and haven't really aged at all mechanically. L they're still super fun to play. Yeah. So yeah, we'll see. we'll see. think I think it's pretty obvious that That will be the end of the year announcement. I think so. I think that's going to be their big thing. My like this is not, I think a thing we can stamp a yay or a nay on, but I just want to say, I think the vibe of this Nintendo direct is going to go a lot harder than recent Nintendo directs have because I think the swwitch two needs a boost Yeah. I think so general. I think they really, especially with the price increase Yeah that just happened. like I think they really need to prove why people should upgrade. And I think they're going to give people a lot of reasons for that. Yeah That doesn't mean that the sentiment on the internet won't be down after because it fucking always is, no matter what gets announced. Yeah. But I have a hunch that will walk away being like, I can't believe how much stuff Nintendo is teasing. On that note, here's a prediction that I think I't I wouldn't say the odds are good, but they should be good. It's one of these. one of these money on the table bets for Nintendo. A massive update to Mario Kart World. I think it's time, like new characters, new tracks, new stages, whatever. L I think it's wild, especially with the hubriss of charging eighty dollars for that game. Yeah. L the fact that it's just sort of like laid there just languishing. And it's been like a year now, you know, So feel like it has been a year. Yeahah, we're at it like I have seen all the YouTubers posting their one year of the Nintendo Switch videos, like're at we're at the year markark. feels like the right time. Yeah, it feels like a time to, you know, especially like I didn't realize there are now three bundles. A friend of mine was asking me. Yeah, which switch two bundles to get becausecause it's there's obviously Mt worldld bundle. Yeah, they brought it back, which is nice. There's also a Picopia bundle And a bonanza bundle. and he said, what should I get? And I recommended Picopia. I was like, that's the best game of the three, in my opinion. They're all very different. They're all very good. You'll want all three eventually. Yes. But I think for that friend in particular, I'm like, I think you would really connect with Picopia. That said, you save ten bucks if you I was just thinking like just from a pure cost saving time If you get Mario Cart. It's too expensive otherwise. Soes, that's a huge plus. But yeah, Mariocart World uppdate. I love that. That's a great prediction. I haven't seen anybody else even posit that. I love it. I think it's great. I also think this is I'm stealing this from one of my closest friends, Dom Mio. Don Mio text me He's been texting me nonstop about Wait, hold on, I'm not gonna get this wrong tom It's funny because Dom is so thoughtful and gentle on his show. and via text, he really is anZnt. Oh my Godd. yeah. Like he's a nemesis. love's like he texts like your phone has a virus. Yeah. He He used to back in the days of Facebook, he would write on my Facebook somethingomet very clearly to get my attention. And then I would respond and then he would delete what he wrote and then reply to me, what? and then told me that his main goal as my friend is to convince me that he's not real. Awesome. Yeah. he just texts me today, Warrioand the Crab Dimension. So in honor of truly one of my dearest and closest friends whoo did come on our podcast and predict Mario Kart work? Y, including the name and how you played the game. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess Warioand, the Crab dimension. W. I love that. You know what's funny, Stehven. I' this is not a joke. On the plane ride back, I was playing Warriolland three for the Game Boy Color. Yeah, because I was like, I haven't played this game I think probably since it came out. I wonder how it hold up. And I was thinking to myself while I was playing, I was like, it'd be nice. F first of all, I thought to myself, it'd be nice if Nintendo announced a direct today. And the other thing I said, I would like another Warrioland. These games are so weird. Yeah. I think that there's a non zero chance in Dom's defense. I think that like Donkey Kong got like a big Mario cent or Mario adjacent Yeah three D adventure platformer. I think there's a non zero chance they bring back Wario in a big way, especially considering that like one of the four games on the Gamehube collection is Wario World. is like awful, but like Nintendo is great at like reintroducing ideas before they happen you know, It's like we're going to sort of remind you of this and then we're gonna announce' ceding the idea Warrio I think Warrio could get his own game, especially if they're trying to do all these stupid movies sorry. if they're trying to give these movies to all the characters, like I think introducing them individually via the games makes sense, but Warrio is a good pull In this case, yeah, Warrior World's game or Warrio land the crab dimension I'm not sure where he got that, but I would have said a Warriorware could be on the horizon if we didn't just get picked to an Nio for IiOS and Android. Yeah, and didn't we get when was the most recent Warriorware? Was it like a year or two ago? Oh, you might be right actually. That really came and went. Yeah. That was a bummer because there was the one where you played as It chose characters, like it was a Smash Brothers game. That was kind of a weird one. And then they were like, let's make a more standard Warriorware and you're right, that one kind of came. Yeah there was Get it Together, which was that one you just mentioned. Yeah. And then so Get it Together was twenty twenty one and then Warriorware Move it was twenty twenty three. That's one I'm thinking of, yeah. And moveove it was kind of like a rehash of smooth moves. Yeah Hey, good video game. You I think you brought to the show and you seemed to Yeah but I just it's hard to iterate on the perfection of the first few. And I think specifically leaning into a gimmick, like whatever the console's gimmick is is very helpful. or alternatively, and I can't believe I have this literally on hand right now, but like, you know, Warriorware twwisted, the cartridge GBA That's a great one. That that might be on the acceleromometer. I think it is the best one. I've been playing it a lot recently. I like the simplicity of the first game, but I think like you can't really go wrong from the first one to smmooth moves. like all of those games are really good. They are good. Touched on the DS? Yeah yeah, because it was it looks like yeah, on Game Boy Avance was Mega Micro games, then twwisted, which is also Game Boy Avance, then touched was DS, Smooth moves was W And that was all in Jesus. Those all came out in three years. good for them. So okay, so N Wario. I'm trying to think do you have any other fun predictions for this? Yeah, I know I have more. I think I think we're going get something really exciting from Square Enix. Wow. Oh. rebirth maybe on Switch two. I think. Oh, that's already out also. Got another one, danga I'm doubtfully confirming things that already happened. Yes. Yeah, rebirth is out on Switch. or at least the demo's out and like reviews are out for that version of the game as of last week. Unfortunately for you, Steven, starting oververworld means I do see all of the news all the time now. So I'm like I'm like too I love it because usually I'm the reply guy on here, so like it's actually thrilling to be corrected in real time. So please And also, you have glasses. so what I really need you to do is push them up and catch the glare. I think we're gonna get something interesting from Square Euix. Well, first of all, it's worth mentioning and we'll talk more about revelation a bit They did say that Revelation is coming to all platforms on day one, so it's not going be because it used to be a timed release for PlayStation and then launched on PC and Xbox and Sitch later. And I'm wondering when they say all platforms that that also means a switch two version is com out on day one? That feels like ' I remember SreenX was very public about their disappointment in rebirth sales Yes Being a PS five exclusives, that it kind of feels that they're fully moving away from that. Yeah, which is probably the right move. So they have a new Fal Fantasy seven, right? They have Elliot soon. I wonder if we'll get another Elliot trailer. It'd be interesting. I feel like we just got one. And then enough. I feel like there's got to be a thing. likeike I feel like Square Enix is going to have something Fascin And that could come in the form of like just like a port of something bizarre, like Final Fantasy fifteen or ' sixteen or something to switch to. But I do think there is going to be like a mic drop square Ex announcement in here. Yeah, especially because they just finally revealed more footage of Dragon Quest twelve, which I think looks great. I don't know we talk about that on the show. D we talk about that on the show? It looks fucking awesome, man Rinning from ear to ear watching that. I love the lizard. I love the tired hero. I love I also love the tired hero. Yeah I know people were making fun of him, but honestly, that's recipe for memorable character design. If you can fun of them quickly, you remember them forever. I've been thin about this a lot. Are you a geese fan? Do you listen to geese? You have shown me some stuff but I have not listened on my own, but I enjoyed what I've heard. One of the things has made And Cameron Winter, is their lead singer really take off and take root in a big way is the fact that his voice is so easy to parody. I think. And when you think about like the great singers of like modern music, they're all people that you can parody very easily. The Michael Jackson stuff, the Elvis stuff, Bob Dylan, John Len. You know what I mean? they all have like a voice that you can like very easily just kind of like parrot Whether that be like in an SNL way or like it's fun to do this in my apartment when I'm alone way. you know. And I feel that way also about character designs where like if people are clowning on this character so hard, that does mean they will probably be beloved at. Yeah I mean, especially like there was a time where I feel like people were way harsher on Toryama's style like commonly, like people you go, he only draws three faces I don't know. I think like I think it's really a flex when a artist has like a very identifiable style. Yeah. I will concede with the new hero, I think he looks significantly better in game than in the concept art. Yeah. He's got like a mom I just threw a vibe to him in the concept art. I think it's the pose 'cause he's like kind of grinning and he's a hunched over and it's like, what wouldd you get away with? It seems to be very like chrono trigger in terms of like ye, there's like an inventor friend who I also love the design of. She kind of has like Marie Tumblr fashion, I feel. that like striped scarf. Yeah. And like a tattoo of a gear in case you didn't know she was a mechanic. I love that so much. Yeah. It's beyond Dreams is the subtitle And I would bet that him looking sleepy is not a coincidence. L I think that, you know, leading to traveling to dreamlands and stuff, I think he's just like a sleepy guy who I don't think yeah My read of it or my theory there is that he doesn't sleep and that every time he sleeps, he wakes up in a dream world. That's really cool. I love that idea. and that's why he's. also think Before this trailer, all we knew about Dragon Quest twelve was that it was gonna be like darker and gritty. and I'm really relieved that's not the direction. Like, I'm glad that. Did you watch the like Dragon Qest day stream or did you just watch the trailer? No, I watched the stream and they talked a little bit about that. Yeah, them being like, we decided that's not the direction to take and we started development over it again. ye I also kind of had like a sigh of relief in some ways. 'cause then you could have gotten the Xbox three hundred sixty Bomber manan version Yeah. I trust them enough that I figured it wouldn't go like I think when I think about what does a darker DragonQuest look like, I think of like the later acts of eleven where I'm like that's about as dark total as I can see Dragon Quest going without losing its Yeah character that midpoint in five. Yeah right. Like that Im if you want to commit to that tone, I'm on board But I just think that like just saying this is going to be more adult. sa I saw someone post in the discord. like I wonder if FF sixteen's performance informed that decision at all, because that also was the direction of ' sixteen and that game not really fully taking off maybe swayed them. I also, I mean, I don't want to overstep here, but I imagine that Toram' passing changed a lot of their plans. This This is my big takeaway from this news actually So yeah, Toryama and Sugyama, who did theic, both passed away throughout the course of development. and they're like kind of the trio of people that are credited at least as like the Dragon Quest trio between Yujihori and those two. So you know we've talked about this on the show before where I think they're passing probably is the reason we hadn't seen the game since it was first announced I think I had even speculated on the show that they were going to restart development and try something new with it. and I'm glad they are, but there is something specifically evocative to me about these new character designs being more Dragon Ball than they've ever been. in Dragon Quests that makes me think that this game is going to be more of an homage to them and kind of a wrapping up of like them as this trio that made this series work than anything else because even this like inventor mechanic companion you have harkening back to like the chrono trigger of it all, you know what I mean? L really feels to me like that this is like this is Yuji Hori's homage to his friends. That's also kind of what I was picking up on. And I think that's really beautiful. You know, I think there's a way to do like a in fiction acknowledgement of real world, you know, events and passing without being too direct about it, you know? Yeah. And then also, I mean, even even the title like beyond dreams to me evokes the idea of an afterlife in some ways. like you're going to visit your friends in the afterlife. because I mean, to be blunt, if it's just like there's a dream world and there's a dream world, like they did that's what Dragon Qu sixix. Right. Exactly. They've already done that. So I feel like there's got to be kind of an even higher level con. It kind of reminds me of how I felt with Boy and the Heron. that movie is very obviously kind of a mic drop for Miyazaki, although he is working on another movie, apparently, which he can't be stopped. He always is He is. He always says he's done, and then he's like, I need to one up Takahhada again. Yeah. Gerillz breaks up after every album, you know That movie specifically Boy and the Heron feels like of what I know about Miyazaki as a person that feels like his most autobiographical film and also like a collage of his career. toally simimultaneously him like reflecting on that and also reflecting on like who will inherit this legacy because like the drama between him and his son is also very well known where like his son Goro Miyazaki has been pretty outspoken about like I don't want to do this. L I want to help the family business, but I have other interests. Right. I don't want to be a director. It's not my fortete. Yeah. And for the longest time before the title was changed to Boy and the Heron, the movie was called How do you Live, which I think is the Japanese title still. And all Miyazaki said about it publicly until it know was more formally announced was that it's about how grandpa is leaving this world soon, but he loves you to his grandson. Yeah, which is so beautiful. And I think that movie, you know, because Miyazaki's method of screenwriting is storyboarding first, there's so much subconscious work at play in his films and it feels like all of that is present. But it's not like so obvious that it takes you out of it. read that movie in a personal lens too. Yeah, I think if you're to be more critical of his work, there are some films where that does that style of creation doesn't really come together the way I think anyone wants it to. And I think Boy N Heron is like actually the most perfect primed film to use that style of creation. It feels in structure probably the most like spirited way Which I think is also one of the more successful like subconscious driven stories. Yeah, totally. But anyway, those are our predictions for the Nintendo Direct Yeah. I try to think if there's anything Oh, okay, one last one. Here's a fun one. Sure. Switch to version of Smash Ultimate. Yeah, dude. Maybe with like a couple new stages. I don't know if they'll make new characters. that would be kind of extra, I think. but I think now that Sakurai has done Kirbier Riders. Yeah, I feel like I don't see them doing a ground up smash anytime soon, but I do think doing a switch to edition of Smash ultimate would be a pretty big pretty big deal. I think so too. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great especially like for the fighting game community, you bump that up to like one hundred twenty frames per second and stuff like really make use of what the Switch is capable of or the switch two is cap. Maybe this includes all the DLC as well.ike Yeah, I feel like it would have to come with It would be like Mario Cardi Deluxe on the Switch one. Exactly. Yeah, that feels like something that they could absolutely do. Yeah I will just I'm just generally very excited because I think Nintendo has a lot that they're playing close to the vest as they always are. you know, I mean, the amount of rumors and things we've heard about, you know, various games that are sitting on shelves for like a decade at this point. I'm excited to see some of that stuff finally come out because I feel like the Switch two is in a position where it needs that stuff now. likeike we are in break glass in case of emergency mode for them a little bit, which, you know Taking a step back is not actually true. It's the fastest selling console of all time. It's doing very well, but of course to Nintendo shareholders, that's still not enough. It's also like I think there's very justified you know apprehension for buying consoles at all right now, given the price increase for all of them. I mean, it's ironic that like there was such I mean, no one could have predicted this, but like there was a lot of confusion and anger at the initial price of the Switch two. And now ironically, it's the cheapest option because the steam deck is seven hundred dollars and everything else is like between seven hundred do and nine hundred dollars. And it's all just getting so prohibitively expensive that like like we say it all the time I don't This hobby to be a pastime for the rich. like that that defeats any art form that becomes that like loses value, ironically. So I do think I'm not pessimistic enough to think that this is it forever, but it is where we're at right now. And I do think that Nintendo has probablyubly said like we're sorry and we'll make it up to you, which is very funny. Yeah I'm so curious what that means Yeah. So it means we're going to get wararrioland crab dimension, like Dom predicted. And it'll be free. Yeah. It's like we're gonna give this two for free, but Sash swwitch two is seventy dollars. Yeah. Go buy buy, bu Anyway, those are our predictions. I do think there's a few more summer Gamefest thing we want to talk about before we move on, right? I'd like to. you' mind Yeah Yeah sure' some stuff that I think is funny. I mean, we could start with Fal Fantasy seven Revelation. was that was the last announcement, which you and I share the same feeling about it, which is like we've been pretty critical of rebirth. That revelation trailer though really fy. I'm secretly I've secretly been playing rebirth again Yes. Look, Rebirth like we were critical of it. It's not that I wrote that game off. it's just that like we were playing that at such a busy time that like once I realized I wasn't fully enjoying it as much as I wanted to, I just had we just had to do other things. That was like in the thick of us doing that was early twenty twenty four. So that was like we were doing the D and D episode and then Games of the Decade and then like Balderskate three and like all this stuff. So it was just like twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four, it was very hard to like finish big games like that because we were just so spread thin. more so than usual. And rebirth, I found disappointing. You know, as someone who like, you know, the original is one of my favorite games ever. It's interesting to revisit it for the PS one episode and just to like reckon with how it feels The original FF seven is a game that I have gone back to throughout my whole life. So I know it so well. I almost can't even judge it anymore. It feels like going back to my hometown or something. Like it just feels so familiar to me. And I also really loved that first remake Remake partart one, I guess. And reirth rebirth revisiting rebirth, what I have realized is that that's going to be the remake of rebirth that comes out. Yes. switch two. and it's eighty dollars. We made it up to you. Rebirth and remake, in my opinion, have the same exact strengths and weaknesses. It's just that the ratio is off for me in rebirth. We're like it has a pacing issue. Yeah, it has pretty serious pacing issues. And like the minute it's losing me, it does something to win me back and then it loses me again and then it wins me back. And at this point I'm like, okay, I kind of know what to expect. I do really want to see this through and seeing that trailer for Is it Revelation or Revelations? I don't know. Come on, mister Overworld. Correct me. Let's see. It's Revelation. Revelation. Like summer game. I would say summer games festbacks summer games it's so funny it's not reunion. Yeah. I guess they've already done that for one of their weird spinoffs, ye. They already used it. likeike it should be reunion, but they already did it. What about Rejoice? Is that too like churchy I do like forjoice. for Joce would be good too. Remind me, what is this again? Re Revelationations is like, I don't know. It's fine. It's fine. But the trailer looks awesome. I mean, like it looks so good, dude. You said when we talked about rebirth, you know a couple years ago, you were like, there was always going to be a pretty big chance that this would be the weakest of the three because it is like the bottle episode of the plot. Right. If you take if you take a plot that is supposed or was at some point written to be one singular story that is experienced at one time And you decide, I'm going to take that story and I'm going to split the acts into three different pieces, then of course the second act where like you're past the character introductions, but you're not getting a conclusion is going to be the weakest part. Yeah. And I think yeah, I said like they have the same strengths and weaknesses. The strengths are, I really, really love the characters. L the way they've brought that was my main concern as someone who loved the original, that I was like It fully trust that they will like understand the characters well. because I think like in a lot of different depictions of Cloud, you know, the appeal of Cloud is how he changes as a person, notot that he's like a sarcastic jackass. And also like, you know so all that to say, I feel like the depiction of this cast in the remake games feels definitive to me. L especially Erth, like I feel like I love that they got how weird she is.ike there's a scene with her on the beach in rebirth that I'm on my way to Coral or Corl right now. I've read it as Coral my whole life and then they're like, we gott to go to Corl. I'm like, okay This is Geruto all over again. But there's a scene on the beach with Erith where she says something out loud and Cloud's like, I appreciate that. And she's like, No, that wasn't for you. That was for my future self. And I'm like, I am in love with this woman. I just love the way that she talks. That is such a powerful aquarius energy line. That wasn't for you. that was for my future self Incredible. But there's just like really like, but you know, it's like for every scene that like melts your heart and posey back in, then the minute you like meet the mayor of a town, it's like no, I don't want to meet the mayor. It's like if you put all the vespos in here, you'll unlock a new bathing suit. It's like, Oh my go. ironically that scene from over the garden wall with I'm the highway man Everybody in the pub has like a role to play, You know, and they all have to introducesel and work. it's like, let's just get the fuck out of here.ike, we don't need to be here. Yeah. I think I told talk to you about this off the show, but like, you know, I did the Cosodl Soul stuff obviously and like, which is where I bailed. It's where this And like the in the original game, Costa Dl Soul, when you get there it's like, you know, it's this coastal beach town and it's a popular like vacation spot. It's like a very it's like a tourist trap. And if you explore the the area and you go to the beach, you can run into Hojo, who's one of the main antagonists. He's this like mad scientist And when you see him, he's like surrounded by like beach babes who are like massaging him and putting Sntan lotion on him. And it's not what's chilling about it is that it's not a scripted event. You can just like stumble into him. And you know, he says some vaguely threatening stuff and then you move on with your life. And I think what's so effective about that moment Is that like and we discussed this on our FF seven bonus, is that like this is stuff I didn't really pick up on as a kid, but replaying it as an adult. It's like what I did remember is like when you leave Midgar for the first time, it feels so overwhelming. Like It's like, oh my God, I'm free. There's a whole world outside of this place. Yeah. And then everywhere you go, you kind of see the varying levels of influence Shra had on the place right? because Midgar feels like this oppressive claustrophobic place, which is like fun to experience in a video game, but you do still have that exhalation when you leave. Yeah and you have this feeling of like, wow this is how bad Shinra can be. I can't wait to see these places that are untouched by Shinra and And it turns out that's not a possibility. And it's like pretty effective Satire honestly, or at least commentary, where it's like the first place you go is Calm toown, right which feels like a scathing review of the Northern Jersey suburbs where like everyone there was like, Shinra seems fine. Like we're okay, you know. And of course, in rebirth, that's somehow Venice. But that's the whole we already talked about that. But then it's like, you know, you go to Fort Condor place that has been like fighting Shinra. You go to you know Junon, which is like this very like nationalistic militaristic harbor town. I think most devastating is when you go to Coral, which is like a mining town that has just been like completely, you know, ruined by capitalism, really. And it's also really effective that like the fun big casino town is directly above a prison. that is as unsubtle as you can get about like this is what the world is like outside of Midgar. Now and Rocket Town even, like here's like an abandoned space program hanging over over Sid's dream. Like his dead dreams are just casting a shadow over the town, but it's also like, you know, this abandoned place by Shinra Kosido Soul is admittedly not that big of an event in the original game, but seeing Hojo there, it gives you this feeling as the player of like, even on a different continent, these fuckers are still here. Like this is a vacation spot for Shinrra executives. God damn it! We can't escape. And in rebirth, it's somehow connected to a subplot with Johnny who simply won't go away And Hojo pulls out a remote control and summons like four giant robot squids that are capturing everyone to like make clones of them. And like, it's fine. L I don't need it to be the same as the original. In fact, I want the opposite. I want it to do its own thing. And that's my main issue with both remake and rebirth is that like Anything that happened is blown up to three hundred percent, whether it needs to be or not. Right. Kind of instead of having the confidence in just doing the stuff that they wanted to do, like the ways they want to twist the story, they're like, we have to earn this by making every moment you remember even bigger than before, which I'm like, I actually don't think you do need to do that. I think having confidence in your own idea is probably the safest way through. Yeah. And I think I think there are pieces of it that pay off for being blown up. L I mentioned before that like in remake, getting to know the cast of Avalanche more pays off. like having Jesie, Bigs and Wedge all be like real characters because they when you go up above the plates, Yes Oh my God, that scene is so affecting. It's great. It's beautiful. And that's what's so frustrating about rebirth is that like you have plenty of those moments coupled with like baffling decisions. I will say though, this has been a multiple year arc. I have fully turned around on Roche. I simply adore him. I think He's good. I'm so glad. He is a confident new addition that I want to see all the time. I will admit now that when I first met Roche, it was literally a day or two after the pandemic had been declared. in that era where it was like people were panicked buying toilet paper. very the whole thing was uncertain and bad, but it was like there was no protocol yet, It was just chaos So it felt like the world was ending. And I smoke so rarely that when I do it hits me very hard. And I had remakes. I had roommates. I seven roommates. That's the third time I had called off because I knew an FF seven remake was coming out and I called off that day and it was also around my birthday. So it was like a mix of emotions where I was like, the world is ending. FF seven remake is out. It's also my birthday. And my roommates were smoking outside and I was like, you know what? I will actually join you this time because like if there's any time to get a little high, it's right now And of course, it hit me way too hard and I was like extremely high, which was great for a spell because I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm talking to Tifa and Barrett and this is so good. And then like a minute later, it's like, have we met the chance my gentlemen? Oh God, who is this? L it was like I had a full blown panic attack. I'm like, who is this? Should I know who this is? Wh is Rach? It was like the exact opposite energy I needed at that specific moment But now I love him. So so you know, the arc has paid off. I'm fully a roche head now. Yeah. He's perfect. Yeah. I mean, he feels like created in a lab for you to love. So Yeah I regret ever being anti roche. I do think for me, with rebirth, I got to Cosadill and I remembered how effective that one bit of the game was from the original And getting there after the incredible Queen's Gambit cruise was so much fun. So Queen's Blood is just so good. Queen's Blood, yes,'s what it is. But then I get to Costa del Sooul and then there's like forty five minutes of we gota find a bathing suit stop on this segue and go do side questions. Johnny being like, I made some, you know, real estate fumbles, but don't worry, I'm back. I'm like, I don't need any more. Even even the place that the cast is staying You need to do the like uncharted one sidle between like two walls and an alleyway so we can load in the place that you're staying. And I'm like, I just every moment feels like designed to waste my time. And I had already been feeling that way about other pieces of the game. So that was when I was like, I need to pull the rip cord. There's other video games to play and talk about I'll come back to this eventually. And I will, especially before Revelation comes out, which just to get back to that. I mean, high wind, holy shit. It looks amazing. Their whole thing is just like you get high wind, you can go anywhere, you can drop down anywhere. And when you drop down, it's literally Fortnite. Like you jump off the bus and you careen towards the ground like it's fortnite. incredible decision. And specifically the thing that you and I have been talking about Basically since Remake came out is like it's gonna to be so fascinating how they try to tackle the weapon fights. I look sick. They look That's something I've been looking for. I'm like all my complaints vanish when I think about how cool it be to fight a weapon on the edge of the highwind. Like Yeah fighting ultimate weapon like over the earth on the edge of the highwind is so fucking cool I'm excited. I think it's going to be sae. I also they seem to have introduced like a class system. Like there's like the dress the job system. FF ten two, which I love. So I'm hopeful that like, even if it has the same kind of clunky ratio, like just knowing this is the last one and like it has a definitive ending, like that's very exciting to me. As far as we know As far as ye, right Rommates never stopp. I'm also happy it's coming out soon because I'm like something about this trilogy taking ten years depressed me and the fact that it's actually been seven for all three is o, I see what they did there. But yeah, I don't know. I'm just fully I'm excited to see my friends again, you know, I'm excited to and the combat's great. I mean, that's the thing about Even rebirth is like, you can't get that mad at a game that has that level of combat with that cast. Yeah. You know, I describe that game as like helping like your favorite people on Earth move where it's like, I love being with you. I just hate what I'm doing. But I'll do it for you. And's that's what's getting me through rebirth right now. Yeah. But I'm very excited for revelations. went that went longong Of course it did. Yeah, It was always going to. Code Veronica remake, it looks great. Claire is back. I'm very excited about that. I am excited about that too. was That was a rumor that we talked about like literally just a couple of episodes ago. One of the theories that I sent to you that I saw on Reddit was that the reason they got rid of the code from Code Veronica is so now it's resin evvil V as in five And that this is now taking the place of what could have been an actual remake of Resident Evil five. They're saying like this is maybe Resin evvil five That's interesting. I like that. I think they're kind of right on the money that instead of remaking five and six, they're going to use a code Veronica remake and some other remake to link the stories of all of these remakes into What is the current mainline series? Yeah, think I think making because I think when you remake C Veronica, there's probably a lot of story stuff you want to change, you know? Yeah. Like Yeah, honestly, like my excitement forward is really as simple as like, I am excited that Claire is back and that like we have a modern resesident Eil with Claire, you know? Yeah. There's not really a ton. like Kovereronica has a lot of really interesting sequences. So like I'm excited to see for example, like the metal detector room, like in the modern style. that could be really fun. There's a lot of like Antarctica in that game that kind of gives like the thing a little bit. I'm curious if they'll even bother bringing back Steve because Steve is like the jar jar of Resident Eil. Yes. I'm curious if he'll show up at all U I'm totally in favor of this just being like the modern five that sounds good. If that's what they wanted to be. I think that's probably the safer option. Yeah. What else? I mean there's some really cool stuff. I'll just shout out Alien Isolation two got announced. Oh yeah. no other information beyond that is just happening. It's cool. Gen Atlas is that new game by Famito Oeda whichich is, you know, exciting to see more of that game because I think the last time we saw it was just like from the creator of Shadow of the Colossus. game. then it was just like a guy on a mech and then that was all we saw. We didn't see much more this time, but like the fact that it's I was worried that it was canceled or gone or something. So it's nice to know that it's still coming out. Honestly, this is weird, but one of my favorite announcements from the entire week is Guild Wars three Yeah, I'm so weirded out by the decision to make that game in the first place. and the way that they're talking about so it's not going to come like the beta, I think they said is fall of next year or something like it's going take a long time. But I think Hot on the heels of Guild Wars Reorged, which just came out and we talked about, I think last week or two weeks ago. But it's basicallyild like a modernized version of the original Guild Wars that has a pretty strong focus on normal controller support was the whole idea behind it, so it could just be like playable on things like the Steam deeck and PC and elsewhere for O and consoles and things like that. Really smart idea, but it's now very clear that that was them testing the waters for how to make controller support work in a MMO format for Guild Wars three to me. And if you read the press release from the team that makes these games talking about Guild Wars I, the way they're framing it at least in their marketing is like This is a completely modern take on a traditional MMO and they're saying they want it to be as playable solo as it is with friends and with everybody else. And I'm really fascinated by what that could possibly mean. Like it does I feel like this is a genre that is so ripe for a huge shakeup. Yeah, because it does feel like the era of live service we have known for the past decade has ended Like I do think that like, you know, obviously there are some games. I think Fortnite will carry on and same with like Gens Yeah. But like all the attempts at making competitors have have basically all failed. Right. And I wonder if like, you know, a new approach will be like, okay, we're going to make this maybe like as player friendly as possible and see if that works. you know? Yeah like I think about When Destiny first came out and the feeling that I had of like this feels like an MMO, but obviously it's using what Bungie is good at, which is like shoot gun at alien, you know Yeah That is it using that mechanic to explore kind of what you had heard of from things like World of Warcraft. But I think having a team As I think accomplished as the Guild Wars team. I mean, both of those games one and two are beloved by players were updated forever and ever. Having them say like this genre needs some more work is exciting to me. I think I think that's going to be a really cool one to keep an eye on. Yeah when you think about like FF fourteen is also kind of equally a single player final fantasy as it is like an MMO. you know. So I think focusing on both playstyles is probably the move. I think' I think it's a good move. But even still like even final Fantasy I, you know, I love Final Fantasy fourteen when played of it. I'm very excited for that Switch two version. Oh ye we'll probably see that more. Yeah mayaybe that will be thing. right I'm supposed to be the tired one I wasn't tired That was is just my voice. This is my natural thing Hey is this thing on? Hey I like Roche now. I was just really high before. Bingo B Bingy bangy bongy. Anyway, even even Final Fantasy fourteen, I feel like is so beholden to what an MMO like kind of has to look like. Yeah. and the monthly subscription as well. Yeah and the subscription, likeike there's just so much about it that feels like This is a final fantasy skinned version of what like E Requuest set up years and years and years ago. You know, It's obviously much better than that, but like at its core, like the mechanical functionality of it feels very similar. Yeah, it's kind of rooted in a wow kind of system. Yeah. And I'm always interested in teams that say they want to shake that up and try something new in that space and still appeal to that player base, but like find a way to make it more entry level. Like I even considered that for Streetfighter six when they introduced the modern controls into Streetfighter six That to me was such an olive branch to people like me who just can't learn to play with the normal controls. I mean, I could, but like I kind of don't want to. Like I would rather have a different option like that. So Guild War three, very interested in. I need to take advantage of the natural segue to teach being in Streetfighter six. Oh yeah, great point There's a new year year four four Oh ye Street fighter six They' been It was so funny when they got out on stage and they were like, Street Fighter six has been out for four years. And to celebrate, we'd like to show you something new. And I was like, oh my God, arere we to get a Street Fighter seven announcement? And then the announcement literally just started with street fighter year four. I was like, o, okay. ye. That should be what the person on stage already said But I really enjoyed their approach at the DLC characters because like there's basically four per year and it feels like a lot of thought is put into like all their different move setets and also where they're coming from, like a lot of the ones in the other than TIFA, they're all kind of like very deep cuts. They're like not characters you would know off the top of your head So I like how there's usually like there's usually one character that like, okay, this is going to be the reason most people get this pass or will buy this character individually. I'm embarrassed at how excited I am for Tifa to be in Street fighter, but it's also, I think objectively exciting. It's be so cool crossover. yeah. Yeah, greatreat idea. Honestly. I'm glad that it hasn't happened earli Yeah, there was a rumor she was going to be in Teken because Clive is in Tekken eight. Oh But I'm honestly happier she's in Street fighter. I think it just like fits better in my opinion. And I prefer the like character design art style of street fighter as well. So that's exciting. Yeah. Spyro. Oh I was going to say my other Spyro I really hope they add Vincent Gil of Gear I feel like he'd be perfect in Gilt of Gear. And that's another reason I'm so excited for FO seven Part three is like you and I are like feral for Vincent at this time. I'm so excited for I'm so excited for Vincent. I can't wait for his like party city like Halloween costume form. You just know they're going to release a Dirt of Cerber' remake. Oh yeah. Well I was hoping because you know, between rememake and rebirth, we got the Ufy DLC story, which was great. I really liked that. Yeah. I was kind of hoping we would get a Vincent episode in between two and three, but I'll settle for just Vincent on the high end in part three. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of Vincent in that game. Yeah We're going to be in good I think. We're' It's Valentine's D. I do want to mention Spyro real quick just're doing we're doing our PS one thing. Toys for Bob who have been doing Crash Bandicoot stuff recently, like they did all this remakes and they made a new Crash Bandicoot. They're making a new Spyro. looks. I just saw the trailer today. Yeah. seemes to be focusing on like flying. L it kind of has like almost a rail shooter vibe to it a little bit Yeah. It's a fun idea. I'm glad to see that that team has Syro Yeah it feels like if just having one team be like we have control over the two could be mascots of the PS one. greatreat. It is weird how they like fully abandoned Spyro and Crash like at some point in the two thousands. Like because I remember even as a kid, I was like, why is Spyro coming out for like Game Boy events? Like what happened? Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad there's a new Spyro. It's fun It's also funny considering the timing of us adding Spyro back to the playlist and then suddenly there's a new. That's what I mean? I just can it can't go unremarked upon that there's a new spyro coming out. We robbed the world of LSD two. If that was still on the list, it would We messed upam emulA two. The finale here for this segment that's already been an hour There's two persona announcements. Yeah. There was the trailer for I watched this these trailers individually. but I just had them sent to me. I was liter I no joke. I pososted about this on Blue Sky. It was not a joke. I was in like what it was a circle of willow trees in the woods with like flat hay between all of them like that had been stamped down and one willow tree in the middle It was like so the end of the witch like com summoning twenty four. Yeah. And it was like the only place I had service. And then you saw the trailer first. And I watched the teaser for personersa six first and it was like I couldn't pick a better spot for this. I think. Yeah, why don't we do We can talk about six first. Yeah, they did a teaser trailer where it's basically it's very green. So we now know that I think that's been the one thing we kind of knew. Yeah, because because during the twentieth century twentieth century Fox during the twentieth anniversary announcement, that art that they had with all the protagonists lined up against the wall, the one paint bucket was green and drippy paint. So we've I mean, that's been like years that we've been. They've recckonned one and two to be like orange and purple kind of like two is orange and one is purple. And Toky Mirage sessions, my beloved doesn't count at all. Yeah That's just miss signo. It's like a bunch of like corrupted data. so sad. I you play that game Yeah listener. were We were actually just on post games, our friend Chris Plant show about Oh yeah. Chris was like, I had this idea for personona summer. What could it mean? And we had to define that together. It was a lot of fun. It was fun. But I was like he was like, what games count as persona summer games? And I said, basically, you know, three through five and metaphor And also all the SMT games that are pretending to be Persona, which is basically Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Soul Hackers two, I think, and then the Devil Survivor games specifically, the two like fire emmblemy ones. I said those all count. But Tokyo Mirage Sessions might ironically be the most persona summer games. Totally of all of them. Yeah I I'm in the heart of Sabooia learning to be an idol in the heat of summer. I mean' doesn't get much better than that. And also Lucina's with me. That'th, you know? Yeah. So anyway, persona six, it's green, it's spooky. The teaser trailer is basically like just all this kind of like almost like Blair Witch, it's like jumble together footage of like p They pan over like a graveyard for a while in the evening And then there's eventually this like circular green stamp that says P six. Yeah. It's almost giving like a Batman logo. It kind of has like either like the vibe I got from that whole teaser was like X files kind of, but it does have like, okay, if they're leaning into this, if this is the like vibe they're choosing to tease thenen it's very clear that this new personersa game is like leaning into maybe like the tone of SMT more than Persona has been in the past, which I think is really exciting. L honestly, there's not a lot to go on here, but my takeaway from watching it is just like, I'm glad that they're not too beholden to the Persona five style You know, like that it's not just here's like obviously them leaning into horror isn't new. L it's evoking three and SMT in some ways, but I do think there was a world in which it was just like, here's another kind of upbeat jazzy soundtrack that's green with new characters, you know? Yeah. I think my my point that I wanted to make and we talked about before recording is like if you look at the initial tease of a persona five I think you also wouldn't consider that it would be this like jazzy upbeat. That's tr I'm in Tokyo vibe. you know. Yeah.s I think there could be a very stark difference between the horror elements that they seem to be going for here and what the actual game ends up being like and it could end up being very personersa five E. but I do think even On some level, like that original Persona five teaser is, you know, all of these like almost gymnasium folding chairs with balls and chains attached to all the legs of those chairs. And it's something like, you know, break yourself free or something like that,. know, you're a prisoner of your own mind, et cetera.. I think I think Persona six having this tease that is indicating to me like a paranormal investigation, filesy vibe is really cool as a concept for where they will go with the actual like dungeon crawling piece of it. And I imagine the life Sim piece of it will probably remain similar to what it's been. And that's like what I want ye, like to be clear I don't want them to stray too far from what makes personersona great. I just think that yeah, like I think one critique I saw a lot of personersona three reload is that like They kind of made three more like five in terms of like it was way more upbeat. The characters like warmed up to each other way more quickly. L it kind of it kind of folded to that mold a little bit. I think that's like not a critique that I agree with that observation. It doesn't get in the way of the game for me, but yeah I think different people will see that as a critique or a benefit Yeah, exactly. But I do think I think you get a more distinct sense of identity from personersona three in the older games. L I think that you know, three releload feels more akin to the modern style and then a Fz and portable are different. And that's just subjective. But anyway, I just think that like I'm excited to see how where they go with this one And if it goes to places that are maybe farther outside what people might have expected. because I think that's what made five so great is like it has the sort of DNA of three and four. like it is a pretty big swing in a new direction. That's kind of what I want to see from six as well. I'll be curious to see if Pona six ends up launching on Switch two also, like day to eight with other platforms Or if we'll get, you know, Persona six two at some point and it Is personersona four revival confirmed for No Sish two? That's why one of my predictions was it might get Oh that it'll show up right? Yes. No, I'm pretty sure it's all modern consoles in steam. Yeah. And then of course, we got unless you have anything else on personersona six No, we got a trailer for Persona four revival, the remake of Persona four It looks so good.'s awesome. It's a similar thing with the trailer for FO seven Revelations where I feel like you and I, at least for me, like I have been pretty outspoken about I'm not convinced that Persona four needs a remake. And even if this is amazing, I still kind of feel that way. I do think that it's a little bit of a stretch to remake four other than wanting Th, four and Fs all have modern versions, which like I understand from a business perspective, but like, you know, three was a game that really needed a lot of modern polish to be more playable by modern standards. And four Golden, I think, is more than playable. And it's also widely available. So I'm just sort of like, well, why do you remake four other than just to say you've remade all the modern ones. And that's still kind of the case, but they did a great job apparently. It looks amazing. L it looks so good. And I don't know, I'm just like excited to revisit that world, which is wild considering we literally just did I cannot believe I'm playing this game for like a third time, but yeah I'm really excited to see I'm excited to see if they also like take What's new, what's different about it? Obviously there's like a few different elephants in the room with Persona four and what the remake chooses to do with certain characters and certain storylines. It did catch my attention that like there were a number of scenes in the trailer that I didn't recognize as dialogue from either game. Yeah. And so I'm like, o maybe it is like at least a new, you know, localization or like a slightly different script, which which, you know, I'm grasping at straws, but I'm just like if they're if they're rewriting it at all, I wonder how much they're revisiting the story. Y. My prediction based on Atlas's past, my like sort of more practical or not practical, but like my more pessimistic The prediction would be that they will likely cut the most egregious stuff from four, but not fundamentally change anything. I think best case scenario is that they add back a lot of the cut LGBTQ storylines and potentially revisit Kanji anduto stories and do right by those characters Yeah I'm almost never in favor of like rewrite this to my taste, but like that's a game that's kind of plagued by not committing to stories that were set up and also just like two thousands homophobia. Yeah, I have very little faith in that to do this. I would like to see it though. and I think you're right that If they're if they're rewriting it at all, hopefully, you know, they take that opportunity to do. Yeah. I mean, this has happened before in much smaller ways where like when they made reload, they rewrote a whole scene that was like deeply transphobic from the original right. So I think they'll at least do that, but I agree. I think I think there's a chance, but I'm not banking on them more meaningfully revisiting certain stories, but we'll see. Yeah. I would love to be surprised by that. muchuch like, you know, I wouldn't have guessed Nintendo would make Van's identity canon in Thousand Ye door, you know, but like they did. So there's they did. Yeah. ye. I'll just also say like just like even the whimsy of seeing the protagonist like running down the main street and stuff and like knowing You know, there's one shot of him running down the riverside area and you can just go down the stairs and like to the actual river bed if you want to without that being like two different spaces that you need to load into. That by itself, I was like, I just am very excited that and Baton pass are almost enough to discover Yeah The fififty mini game looks totally different than it did in the original also, which I think I'm going do a lot of fishing. Also, our friend Matt Horin and I were talking about this another big personersa fan and he reminded me that we saw Marie in the trailer. So this will be the golden stuff. golden here. Yeah think the fear was that they're gonna to be like, no, no, no, this is a remake of Persona four Not golden. You have to get golden if you want to do the golden stuff. R? Which does make it even more frustrating that that's what they said with three reload. exactly. It's like even more of a bullshit excuse that FMC wasn't in reload, but I think they realize that they fucked up with that in retrospect. because even think if you go to literally SeGa's website where they're promoting this, it now on their website, the first thing is a full remake of personersona four Golden, which was not the terminology they were using until that trailer came out. Yeah Yeah, I wonder if there's any, I mean, I think at this point probably not, but I'm like they did the episode Augess DLC. I'm curious if they'll ever do DLC. I think it might be just too much work to like it's an unbelievable amount of work. Yeah. Yeah. as we've said, one hundred million times on this podcast, it's an incredible missed opportunity to not make it the definitive version of Uona three instead of it is which is just another version of Persona three. Yeah. Thankfully the portable version is available on modern consoles. So like and that's my sort of tinfil hat theory is like I think they wanted there to still be a reason to get that version because like that only came out like a couple years before Voad did. So I wonder if they like they wanted to still have like value for the Modern port portable, but ye, you know, who knows? Yeah. Well, that's it. That's persona. I mean, that's coming out in February. Yeah. I'm really excited about it. Yeah That comes out around the same time as F seven, which is a repeat of twenty twenty four in I think February, it was reload and rebirth came out at the same time. Yes. could be another like early y one RPG zone I'm just so excited to hang out with my friends again. In both cases. Yeah. In both cases, exactly. just I'm really excited to hang out with all of them.. And any little changes they add here or there to Pona four, I think is going to be really fun having just finished that game so recently. Also, Teddy sound I posted this on Bkuy, but Teddy sounds like weirdly gentle this time Like his voice was like, Hi I'm Tedd. I'm like what? He's usually like, Oh, Sensei, help me, please. know Hello. And now he wass like hi, I'm Teddy. Ding, ye the more thoughtful script. Yeah. I have a question for you. Should we just wrap this up? Like the whole episode? Yeah, we've been talking for like an hour and a half or hour. I like to I would like to bring up at least another game for today's episode that's all right. All right, we're gonna take a break and come back and we're gonna talk about another game. Yeah, another game. All right, the other game we talked about. All right, seeee you in a bit. Bye Brendon, Hello. I've been playing a lot of stuff. you and I talked about like we've been playing a lot of PS one s. That was good. Yeah, thanks. Here's a few crumbs. donon't fill up too quickly. as I can get. I was in the middle of a sentence. I'm sorry, okay? You and I' been talking a lot about what we've been playing for the PS one episode I'm playing a lot of stuff and' been playing a lot more of Mina the Hoower. And I wanted to do an update on Mina the Hollower. Have you played any more of it yourself? I have actually. Yeah, it's one game that I put a little bit more time into. Not enough to be able to bring it back myself, but I mean, if we're talking about it, I can still speak to my experience with it. Yeah, yeah. so'm I have now finished ree of the six or seven dungeons. Y. So I'm like just about halfway through. For context, I have finished the crypt, which is most people's first dungeon.. That's where I am right now. Then I did the Bayou and then I just finished September, which is like great name And over the garden wall, like Halloween town. Incredible. Yeah, so we brought up Mina last week and I think we're both really enjoying it, but I think that it's been interesting to see a lot of conversations online about Mina because overall, the reception has been extremely positive. Like it's definitely one of the best reviewed games of the year. I wouldn't be surprised if it like wins many awards at the end of the year. It's certainly going to be in my top ten in some capacity, I'm sure And it's a great game. And I'm also really happy. I think I didn't fully know the situation at Yacht Club games and it does seem like this was kind of a make or break moment for totally. Yeah where like I don't think they would have gone bankrupt, but I think they would have had to make some hard decisions about like, do they need to be acquired? Do they need to downsize and Mina selling as well as it has already has really kept them alive and I think will p a promising future for them. Yes. It sure seems that way. Yeah. I think from what I've seen of their communication about it, after the first week sales in particular, they were like, we are no longer on thin ice. Yeah is how they put it. Not like everything's perfect, but like we're not about to go under anymore. Yeah I think the head of Yach Club said something to the degree of like If we sell two hundred thousand copies, that would be great. And they have sold at least last time I checked, like in a few days, they sold three hundred thousand copies.. Yeah. So they basically it seems like they at least made the amount of money they need to to keep operating as they want to. R. I think whether you know what they do next will, I think depend on I would expect this game to break a million by the end of the year. I think that feels I mean the amount of I'll say this, okay, first of all, just the amount of buzz about it in particular is really telling. Secondly, and this is just anecdotally, but literally yesterday, I was with my brother in law and he was like, have you played me to the Hallery yet? He plays like three games a year. He was like, haveave you played me to the Hallory yet? I'm loving And we had a whole conversation on me in the Hollor. So it's like it's broken out of containment, you know. Yeah. And I think and going back to my point about like the discussions about it, like even the most critical discussions, like it's interesting where like I think the people that are most critical about it and the people that are loving it are having similar conversations. Yeah Actually, we talked about my critiques of it and he was like, I feel exactly the same way about all of that. ye. just the verticality of it all. And then it ends up transforming from like a disagreement into a like water cooler conversation of like, wait a minute, you've found that. Yes exactly. I was playing this game recently. I did all of September with two friends of mine who were over and hello Mum, M, I don't know what that is I'm sorry I don't know where my brain went. So Sadie and Eric were over and we'll often have sessions where we'll do like an art night where all of us are working on something or we'll play games like just in the same room. So Sadie was working on drawing something. Eric was playing Mina the Hollower on their steam deeck And I was playing Me to the Hoower on my big TV. And it was really fun like turning over to each other and telling the other where they found certain trinkets. and like basasically, like so what I said last week was that I think to kind of tie it all up as neatly as possible without repeating myself. The best and worst thing about Me to the Hollower is that it kind of has like a maximalist Design philosophy. where like, you know, I actually just watched there's a great documentary on Game Informers YouTube channel about the making of Mina. Oh yeah, totally. Yeah I watched that last week too. It was great. It's really great. I also I really like I think his name is Alec, the lead designer of Mina. I forgot his last name, but he comes off like completely egoless in a very charming way. like he's like talking about like he basically got hired at Yacht Club by showing off all of these like he like recreated like a stage in Shovel Night. Like here's what it would look like if it was on the Game Boy Advance. And his application had like all this fan art of like, I recreated this like if it was on Game Boy or if it was on Game Boy Advance. And a lot of people at Yaah Club, including Alex said A lot of what we said last week where they were like our design philosophy is like thinking about like why did this sort of retro design just like go away? There's so much more you could do with this. And in Alex's words, he said like Shovel Kight is basically Zelda two is actually pretty cool and here's why. And then he also said the same about me and that was Simon' Quest. So I'm glad I was picking up on that Totally It seems like the pitch for Mina, what Alec created was basically a lot of the concept, like he showed off an early build the build of Mina that he used for the pitch within Yak Club. And it was basically Mina, as we know her, burrowing. So that was like figured out right away. And the intention was basically like just a down platformer in the style of Game Boy cololor with like a castlevenia whip, right. And then all of the RPG stuff and the level ups and the story and the characters, that was all added like through collaboration. And in the documentary they say that at Yacht Club, they have this design philosophy where like everyone has to agree on what's added to the game because the thing about Yacht Club is like they're an interesting size an ind team because it's like just under twenty people, it seems who work there full time. And like that's a lot bigger than a lot of indie teams. like us I feel like a lot you hear like, oh, this's like a two or three person studio for this game. Then there's also like something if you count like Exibition thirty three as an indie game, it's like that's a way bigger team, you know, or like there are certain productions that are still considered indndie that are way bigger and maybe approach it like aoubleA thing. I feel like Yacht Club's probably closest parallel is like super giant, where it's like I like thinking that too. yeah. Yeah ye. So it's interesting that they had this philosophy of like everyone has to say yes. and I think that that seems to be the thing that like really helped and also maybe hurts Mina a little bit where it's like ye They have this foundation of like the pitch of like, oh yeah, this is so cool. And the head of the O Club was saying like, if Shovel Knight is our Mario, then this is ourZelda. and like what does Ar Zelda look like? And I think that like all of the additions to Mina, I think were good ideas. Like I'm glad they added leveling up. I'm glad they added shinkets. I think once you're as far into Mina as I am The game starts to feel much more like, oh, this is like a Symphony of the Night RPG more than it is like a platformer. Yeah. You know And it's more about a Symphony of the Night, by the way. Yeah. I thinkbe you said that on our Symphony of the Night episode is like I kind of miss some of the RPG stuff. Yeah. Yeah But basically it was fascinating it was really inspiring. I'll put it in the show notes that documentary. It's like a half hour long, but like it was really cool to see how they've come up with this. But it also kind of illuminated, I think some of the confusion in that like, I think Shovel Knight has the benefit of being built around a singular mechanic and it doesn't feel like Mina is fully built around burrowing Even though like, yes, that is a very important mechanic, it feels like there's a lot of like independent systems that maybe don't all fully come together in the moment. But what that does create is like a sort of dragon's doogma esque experience where there's this feeling of leaving town where it's like, I need to prep for this. I need to spend the money I have Choose upgrades, choose my favorite weapons, play around with my trinket combinations, and then go out. And honestly, one of my favorite things to do in this game is like to go to an area that I've already beat the dungeon in and just see what else I can find. Yes. This is maybe the most the most I've felt rewarded by my own curiosity in a long time. I think that's the greatest strength of Mina is how much it rewards you bothoth like just the feeling you get as a player and the literal reward Mina gets. Like in September, the whole premise is like very over the garden wall, like I mentioned. L you go into this classroom and these four kids that look like the lockstock and barrel from Night Christmas. They're like all afraid of this guy called the cararving man who has Jack o' lanterns for hands. like this scary monster. so good. And he actually stalks you like Nemesis through the whole area. So like so cool. Every now and then he'll like burst through the wall. and it's thrilling. Like it was so fun to have friends watching during the Septbered part. And if you save all the kids, which I ended up doing kind of just by accident, but like if you save them all You get this incredible trinket that makes it so when whenever you heal yourself or attack, there's a chance that like lightning will strike an enemy and do like a shit ton of damage. And I'm just like, I'm so glad that like my well, I'm glad I kind of stumbled into this, but also like you're likely as the player going to be like, oh my Godd, I'm so worried about these kids. I hope they're okay. The game isn't telling you to save them But you'll probably stumble into one or two and then suddenly you're like, wait a minute, I think I might, you know, I want to do this as the player, but I also might get a reward from this. Yeah, right. That whole like September basically raised this whole game like a star for me. I thought that was such a brilliant level. Like it was the game like aesthetically, it was like the exact kind of theme that works perfectly for like a sort of spooky cartoony game. The boss is really fun. I thought the platforming was really inventive. It was hard in a thrilling way. And at that point in the game, you know, you probably should do September like third or fourth. Like whenever you do a dungeon, the newspaper recommends where to go to next. They'll be like, you know, crime spotted on bone beat. Yeah you know and then you can go there. I love like the music it plays like this just in The carving man is no more, you know, and it shows you fighting the boss. But like, yeah, I just really, I really loved At this point in the game, I'm having that moment. I predicted I would last week where like I'm in the underground lab and I'm like, okay, I have like ten trinkets and I can equip four and like what would be the most interesting combination? Yes. And I also now have every weapon except for the hammer. And I've upgraded the whip once and the gun I strongly recommend. You get like a Samus esque like arm gun that shoots up to eight projectiles that bounce around and you can also shoot diagonally.. And you can pivot to a melee weapon that has the same swing as Link's sword. And whenever you hit anything, whether it's an enemy or like grass you'll recharge one bullet. So you basically have a ranged weapon and a melee weapon and it's extremely good. That sounds sick. Yeah. The whip and the gun are by far my favorite weapon. Yeah. I would recommend getting them. My quick update just because this slops in very well is yeah I spent a lot of time playing Mina while I was on this trip Just focusing on getting better with the hammer because it's the only weapon I have and I haven't gotten enough. I mean, I technically have enough bones to go like either upgrade it or get a new weapon, but I was like I just I need to kind of treat this the way I do a Souls game that I'm bad at. Yeah. I just need to practice more. And I just went to areas where I knew there were difficult enemies and I was like, I'm just gonna to hang out here. I'm going get good at like charging up and roll I'm going gonna get good at making sure I'm always using the charge attack when I'm hitting something. I'm going get good at making sure I know where my hitboxes are and how long it takes to burrow and things like that. And it has drastically changed my enjoyment of the game to put that effort into that piece of.' awes, which is nice. And now I kind of feel like I'm cruising in the way I always want to feel In this style of game, because the exact thing we said last week and the thing you just touched on is like the explorative pieces of this game and the ways in which they reward the player for that curiosity are kind of unmatched. and it's I think the reason everybody's connecting with Mina so well. and being so disconnected from the way combat and traversal worked was preventing me from accessing that in the way that felt Yeah, think I think the game maybe miscalculates how to open because it doesn't really, unless you seek it out for yourself like you did. Yeah, it never really gives you like a ramp up to learning the basic mechanics. R. And that's the trade off when you trust the player this much. You know, I think I largely prefer games that let you figure it out even if it means it might be a difficult few opening hours. But I think like there's a and that's, I think why they had this modifier system. But I feel like early on, I'm like even if you just had the ability to like, maybe maybe you can swap out one other weapon or like, you know, I think I think losing bones so easily early on is also pretty brutal because like, I'm now at a point where like I have trinkets that prevent bone loss basically. Right. And you probably have a couple different charges, right At this point. Yeah I had two sparks. I had upgraded green vests, like I'm doing great. Yeah. And at this point I can like kind of tank hits without worrying too much about it because like I also one of my favorite trinkets, if you meet a frog in the bayou who asks you to fill a jar with hatred, do it That's all my general advice in life. But Also if you ever visiting Manhattan same same sation. R exactly. that trinket, basically you have to like kill a number of enemies while you have it equipped. and then it transforms into a plasma jar that lets you generate a plasma is a yellow bar that shows you how much you will heal when you drink a potion And the more you attack an enemy, the more it is. This trinket allows you, first of all, you get way more and you can get more than the maximum amount. So you can have like a huge reserve of plasma. Is there a a trade offff to that by any chance that you've discovered? Other than just like limited trinket slots. like all the trinkets are so good that you might because there's another one. I'm just thinking it sounds an awful lot Like a thing you can get in Hollow Knight and Silks Song that has like a pretty steep trade offff if you use it too much. Yeah, the only trade offff is like there are some true like that lightning one I described is like completely busted and I love it. There are a lot that maybe sound like what's the use of this and then they end up contributing to a weird side quest. L I had one that wherever I burrow it leaves like a pool of acid that hurts enemies over time Which is really cool and like completely changes your strategy with burrowing. And that's the thing is like once you start getting this stuff more frequently, like you're just so excited at the options of this game in a way that is not at all how the first three or four hours feel. like The first three or four hours, you might like I found one trinket in that time. And this might be different for everybody depending on how much you explored, but like overall, like I'm five hours in and I have two trinkets. Yeah, right. so it's like You' large and that that, you know, I think it is smart to not overload you with like game breaking options as you're learning the game. Yeah. But the difficulty of those hours is so demanding that I think it's like maybe just a slight miscalculation. but. Well, the funny thing is like the first trinket I got was boots that make it so I don't slip on ice and I haven't seen ice anywhere. be so happy you have that later on. Yeah. I would also recommend when you find the train station to repair it as soon as possible. Okay. because that lets you fast travel to every place you've already been, including Osussex. and it's pretty amazing. Cool. That's also like there's one place you actually can't get without the train, so you'll need to eventually. Yeah. I think it costs like ten thousand bones to do, and I'm amazed I'm at a point where that's likes a possibility Yeah. becausecause I think what ends up happening is like you because whenever you level up, you can't just increase like attack over and over again. L the cost of leveling up attack goes up. So you end up whenever you level up, you kind of need to make a few bone gems It's the game nudging you to like invest in the modern banking system to just like have a whole bunch of bones in your underlab. Yeah. I also love that the game when you're shopping, it lets you just like switch between the bones you have on you and the bones you have saved up. That way you don't have to go back and forth a million times. But ye it just to me It feels like the game, all the mechanics are way more harmonious once you're in sort of the mid game here. And that's kind of what I thought, but it's really nice to feel that. And I think what really shines because the crypt is fun, but it's also very much like, okay, this is like a Castlevania level. Yeah. When you get to the bayou, you're like, oh, this is interesting This is like a different kind of place. It's sort of it almost looks like a minish cab dungeon because of the lily pads and stuff. And then September is like this is fully a new thing. Yeah. Obviously it's evoking like Bloodborne and over the Garden Wall and night before Christmas and stuff. But like this feels like Midna. You know, or sorry, this feels like I did it again. This feels like Mina. Yeah I'm just like really loving it in a way that I'm happy because I feel like last week I was really liking it, but I wanted to love it and now I think I'm finally loving it. And our friend Will at all Yeah we've been chatting about this game. I think they had a similar experience. Yeah, Will and I were definitely on kind of the same wavelength and they've put a lot more time into it than I have, but have been updating me Be I remember around when we were both kind of just starting out, the conversation that we had was like, everyone I've talked to has said the game gets better, the further in you get. So the more you commit to playing it, the more rewarding it becomes and Will just keeps texting me like that's true, that's true, that's true,'s true. Yeah, think think you' I think you'll continue to enjoy it. Yeah. I'm really thankful like this week is pretty open for me. so I'm going be able to finally get more time in games and specifically Mina, which I'm really excited about. And then even next week, I'm going to visit my parents for like two or three days and even that is just going be mostly like a relaxation experience more than anything. What's really nice too is that despite the difficulty, the pacing of the dungeons is pretty c Like I found that I've finished a dungeon in like a single session each time. And the whole game is about thirty hours. It's kind of a nice length for this kind of game. Yeah. There's also apparently a new game plus where you can start from the beginning with everything you have. Oh dude, which sounds like a dream. I can't wait for that It's really cool. It's really cool Another thing about the documentary that I loved was like, I mentioned how the guy who pitched this game, Alec, he comes off like very humble and modest, but he's like clearly a genius. Just like seeing him like casually like it's always how it goes You know, someone's like,h,'s just whatever. And then they're like, here's what I whipped up last night. You're like, this is incredible what? But you see him working on a level in the bio and he's like, All right, so right now there's like these three things It's a little bit too easy to just get around it and like avoid this entirely. But if I move this wall one square, suddenly it changes like the goal of this and like you also get a chance to learn the enemy's behavior and they're a little bit more threatening when they're together. and like it's just really cool to see how quickly he figures all that out Yeah. And also that like the problem with that room is solved by moving one tile tile one square over. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It also like there whatever engine they're using looks like a lot of phones. They're just like a drag and drop thing. they have all these like sort of world building ass setets in one box and he just sort of like drags them around. Yeah, it looks like Mario Maker, almost. it does, which like would I mean, that would be a fun not to backseat design any future yacht cllub game projects, but like a Shovel Knight or Mina Maker would be a fun addition to their library, I think. Yeah. Like a level maker in their engine. Mina maker. Super Mina maker. Yeah. I also didn't realize one other thing I learned from the documentary is that a lot of those Shovel Kight games they spent years making were pledge goals from the Kickstarter. Yeah. They had kind of almost inadvertently like booked themselves for the next five years because like they're like if we hit this goal, and it's not their fault like because Shovel Kight not only was that like an earlier, you know, like this modern era of like indie games on steam. like they were at the forefront of that with Shovel Knight in twenty fourteen. And also at the forefront of like crowdfunded games. like that was twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen was when Kickstarter was becoming this major force with games like FTL and Shovel Knightight And mighty number nine. Yes there was a tendency to like be like if you give us twenty dollars, you'll be in the game and like you'll be the producer. You can make it yourself if you want. You know It's going to be Stehven Knight Yeah it's like yeah, it's like sometimes like all right enough. I remember I saw one, it was an animation and it was like, if you give us like a thousand dollars, like the main character will be modeled after you. And it's like at this point, like this is too much. L you can't like you should have a vision for this. It might be fun to be like a background character, but like the main character. Yeah, I remember even like you Joking about M mighty number nine, but like I backed that kickstarter at like a pretty low tier and they gave me this like care package that had like a shirt and a bunch of stickers and like like like a manual and a bunch of stuff. And obviously like the game was a mess when it eventually came out. But it was like I don't know, Maybe I didn't need the t shirt, you know, at the end of the day. Anyway, like what they said on that documentary was You know, for Shovel Knight we basically had to make five games after that. R. So like everything that's in Treasure Trove were essentially pledged goal games. And you could see how that would be a rough business thing in particular, right? Because all of that money is up frront, right? Like thats stuff you owe people who already paid you the money. and then you just need to make that money work for you for, as you were saying, like the next five years and then hope That other people will purchase the game in the years since, right? Like in all those years as you continue to update it and as Shovel Night gets bigger and better, But for the most part, it's just making good on what somebody purchased in twenty thirteen, but at this point it's twenty twenty. Exactly. So what they said with Mina is that like and it's interesting. like I remember when they announced the kickstarter, there was a little bit of like a little bit of confusion about like, oh, why why are they doing a kickstarter? Like aren't they, you know financially stable And their reasoning was largely for marketing. Like it's, you know, it really helps to have this like built in community with Kickstarter for these are the people that like believe in the project the most. That make sense. Yeah. you know, they also co funded the project. and I think it also seems like maybe they did need some outside assistance as well So like probably kind of both are true scenario there. But their goals for Mina were like adding things to the game. So like adding the phishing pole was like a stretch goal. Yeah. And like I'm looking at actually their stretch goals right now. It was yeah, what are they Sound tests, cheat codes, newew game plus, Mac and Linux ports, three starter weapons, phishing minigame, and that's as far as they got. And then the other two that they didn't hit were five starter weapons and an additional level Oh, okay. Yeah, so those feel like you could tell they're like, let's make these modest additions guess Obviously like it takes a lot of work to do some of the new game plus but not play through the whole game as shhovel Night. Play the whole game as Plague Night. Right Yeah. Eactly. Also here's the Smash Brothers with all the Mina characs Exactly. Yeah a second. I mean, they did that with Shovel Night. Yeah. Mina Brawler. Mina Maker Brawler. But that's my Mina update. I definitely will see it through before the year is over I'm excited to hear your thoughts as you get further in. Yeah, I'm excited to play more of it. M is good. Min is good. A glowing recommendation. I do think it's worth, yeah, like I said last week, like if you feel a little bit burnt out by the opening, but you're like intrigued by what the game is doing, either power through or you know, feel free to use all the different modifiers Because I think,ah, that's the biggest critique is I think sometimes not all the ideas coalesce, but I think you it's still a really brilliant game. I have other games I could bring up, but I think as we observe, we went long on the summer gamefest stuff. So I think there's also the game I was going to bring up is a game called Wax Heads, which is a great indie game where you play as an employee in a record store And I know you've been enjoying it too, so maybe we can both talk about that next week. Yeah, I think it's a good idea. I want to play a lot more of it Yeah because I've only played like what the demo had in it at this point. So ye But it's a good game. And if you want to play along, that's what we're going to talk about next week. Exactly. in addition to some other stuff. So yeah, why don' why don't we wrap up for this week? enough? Let's wrap it up, baby Thank you so much for listening and the cast at Online is our website there you can find all relevant links. If you like the show, the best way to have a grow is share with a friend. You can also rate and review us on your podcast app of choice. and you can support the show directly at patreon dot com slash into the cast. We have a weekly show called any percent all for patrons on the five dollar tier or higher. That's where we give ourselves exactly ten minutes to answer a listener submitted topic prompt or question. We also have a monthly show called Shorelyave. We were a little late with Mays this time. We actually just released it a few days ago. We have the most recent Sore leave there for patrons. And I think we still have plans to do that Capcom double feature. I just have to get around to finishing Pragm So the Pragmada RE requiem episode will still happen at some point. Anything else, BB? No, maybe you've already heard from us about the Nintendo direct. Yeah,m I'm sure you have. And I'm looking forward to seeing how wrong we were in our production. God. On bubble Bobble. Yeah. Yeah. No, just I'm excited to be back and to have more time to play video games. I feel like the past two weeks have just been like a whirlwind. and I'll be back next week with a proper night's sleep. It's time to game. it's time to sleep. It's time to game, it's time to sleep. It's time to burrow. Final things to seven roommates. Is that what this one is? Yeah, baby What if we've ended every episode? Thank you for listening to Episode title here. Yeah. Thank you for listening to Calell's Big M. I like that. I think that's great. It's polite, it's formal. Okay, we'll see you all next week. Thanks again everyone.'s see