Summer Games Fest and Industry Events

Hello and welcome into the Aher. It's a low key video game podcast. My name is Brandon Bigley. My name is Stephven Hilger. We're playing new video games this week. If you can believe it, the year twenty twenty six continues to provide way too much stuff. It seems like every single month, we have like one single week where three of the best video games of the year are all released simultaneously. It just keeps happening over and over again ' lost in the sauce. I did make sure to play one game for the Game Boy color to balance it out. Yeah I feel like, you know, it's interesting. like we often say that we sometimes cosplay as a new releases show and then we're like abruptly back to Canon Spike. Yeah. We did have like a solid like most of this past spring was like T truly like amorphous purgatory game. Right We had our like we had our week with like Marathon and Poopia and Slight Epire two coming out all at once and then three weeks of like, hey dude, Dreamcast is still pretty good, huh? Like just from my own mental health, I've basically just stopped reading reviews, but I do every now and then see like People sometimes are like, oh man, it's just a new releas of show now. I'm like only for a week, give us time. We will go back to that amorphous goo that you crave. The goo flows for Y. In my opinion, the benefit of this show is that we can do both. you know, I think it's like really fun to pay attention to what's happening and what's coming out while also not being like strictly on one timeline. Yeah. So ye its honestly, this year is like very, very star studded already. Yeah. O both, I think sometimes we have years where like I think last year in particular, it was like Indies are really making this year work for people. Right. And most AAA stuff last year did not hit or underperformed or a combination of both. And I think this is Rare year where like everything is worth B. Yeah. And then you have years like twenty twenty and twenty twenty three were both very AAA centric. Yeah. where you had like Balders Gate three and Tears of the Kingdom. and then twenty twenty was like, well actually twenty twenty was also kind of both. We love both. I love to see both happen, you know? Yeah, what that's what you want That's when the goo is really formed. That's when the goo fully forms. You got the protein you need and the slime you crave. Exactly. Buty anyway, we've playing Mina The Hollower. It's a new video game. It's one that's been in the works for a long time. I actually thought it was longer. I looked it up. It started development in twenty twenty. So it's been six years. Yeah. Six years is like at this point That' kind of the mean average development time for a game of this scale. Yeah. I think specifically as you know this is by Yach Club Games, best known for Shovel Knight. and basically all of their output since Shovel Night has been stuff related to Shovel Nnight, either expansions or ports to other platforms or spinoffs in the form of a bunch of different kinds of games manyany of which we've talked about on the show. And it's interesting that it's taken so long to get like new IP. I mean, I understand, you know, when you are a company with hit intellectual property on your hands, like obviously it makes sense as like a business from a financial perspective to continue trying to serve that audience. The idea of them breaking out and doing something new has always been really exciting. And I feel like the blank check they wrote in terms of, you know just like gamer goodwill This is the moment, you know, this is the moment for them to cash in on it. and it seems like it's working, which is nice. I mean the game is reviewing extremely well, seems to be performing really well. seemeems like all signs are pointing to yes for Yacht Club, which is great. You've played a lot more of it than I have. I think we both split our time in different directions this week. So the amount of Mina the Hoower you've played is what I've played of zo seven first light and vice well not vice versa you haven't playedzer zer seven, but But you get what I mean. Together we complete the slime. Together we complete the slime.. But I have also played a bunch of Bean in the Hoower. I have a lot of thoughts about it. I think I'm netting more critical than most people I say. I feel a little bit like a dissenting voice when I talk to people about it. But then when I talk to people about my criticisms of it, they're like, o Ohh, I also agree with that. They just like it more. Yeah Wager we will have similar notes. I'm having a great time with it. Yeah. I think it's really awesome. I think the best and worst thing about it is that it is the perhaps overly ambitious follow up to the hit success. Yeah. Like this is the Majora's Mass Chrono Cross kind of sequel where like there's a lot more going on and because of that, it's maybe a little bit messier than the like suuper polished simplicity of Shovel Knight. Yeah. does I mean the from what I've read at least, the development timeline sounds very similar to Silk songs where like this started off as a much smaller project that continued to balloon because they loved the world so much then lo the character so much that they like couldn't help themselves but add more and more and more stuff to the game whichich is I think where a lot of that feelings come from. And I think a lot of people are gonna compare this to Silk Song. I think it also kind of compares itself to Silk Song. I think so too. Yeah. whichich I think is interesting. I think they're very different games. I do get the comparisons because there is like on paper, they're both souls likes. I have a lot of thoughts on that ie But just to kind of pitch what the game is. Mina the Hoower, the aesthetic is like very much modern game boy color. It's really, really striking. That's Cayach Club Games is like one of their signature things is they're really good at evoking both the visuals of the past and bringing back very identifiable mechanics from retro games, but putting them all together in a collage that ends up becoming something new. Right. So like Shuffle Night, I think you've described as something between the NES and the Sper Nintendo. Yeah It's like the pretty good Nintendoendo. That sounds like an episode title. It does. And then you have like I forget what the match three one was that they made, but that was like very like game boy Advced vibes I would say Shovel Kight Dig, I feel like is to the Super Nintendo, what Shovel Knight was to the NES. so it's like somewhere good Nintendo. Yeah. what was the one we had the other day the ultra Nintendo? It's like an ultra Nintendo, but not the N sixty four, Like that's what Shovel Knight Dig was going for. And this feels like the halfway point between the Game Boy Color and the game Boy addvance The suuper Game Boy Color. Yeah, so like I think they're really good at like Shovel Knight's signature mechanic is like that downward shovel strike, which is just like in their own words, straight from Zelda two. Yeah. And Duckails, Is that what it was? Yeah, it's like that game is like a very interesting hybrid of like Megaan, Ducktails, Mario, and Zelda two Yeah And I like how they pull from games that also didn't maybe fully work. Like there's a lot of Zelda two and Shovel Kight that like makes you admire what that game was going for. Yeah. Same with me and the Hollllowwood. There's a lot of Simon's Quest here. There's so much Simon' Qu in here. I feel like the easiest pitch is like, what if Simon' Quest was starring a cute mouse and was good That's like kind of the best way could. Yeah. What if they nailed Simon's quest? What world would we live in? It's the world of me and the Hallllowing. One of the subwapons you get is just like pebbles. you can skip on the water. and I'm like, I know this is some esoteric side quest, and I can't wait to figure out what the same thing. Yeah. I wrote down where you can get the pebbles But yeah, so it has this aesthetic. It's obviously pulling from Castlevania. I think the main ingredients here are Castlevania, specifically Simon' Quest, topop down Zelda, specifically like the Oracle games, which I love. And then like fromr Soft's library. There's a lot of Souls like structure here. There are other ingredients too. I think there's a lot here that's like new to Mina, specifically the burough mechanic, L I don't think that's really from anything directly. But it' I think it all works. I would say the game's biggest strength for me is the Simon' Qu Zelda stuff. I think the feeling of mystery and discovery they nailed I literally yell out loud and joy whenever I discover like a secret like room with a treasure chest. I really, really love the central town. L it kind of has this clocktown vibe to it where like it feels so alive. like everybody has their own schedule. and likeever I don't know if they have their own schedule, but it feels like everyone is doing their own thing And whenever you come back, it's like a little bit different. Like when I return to town after the first dungeon, I'll say I'm like around eight hours in. I just did what felt like the first big dungeon where the boss had a surprise second phase. All right, this is the first boss. I like that's no longer surprise.s o, okay, it's the first real boss. Yeah. But when I went back to town, there was another mouse ad who was like, My name's Maxie and I'm your rival and I'll never forgive you for embarrassing me. And me and is like, I have no idea who you are. Perfect. I love that. And so like there's a lot of stuff like that. I walked by a shop and a giant arm like punched through the wall and pulled me in and was like we got deals. And like I love both how alive and how eccentric and mysterious the town is. And I also love how this game is like Definitely trying to say something with its like portrayal of like the class difference in the town and like the reliance on the currency. L I feel like there is somewhat of a like commentary on who technology favors, you know, 'cause Mina is this adventor and you have this friend who is absolutely secretly the villain of the game whose face ticks up like the whole portrait, hisis name's Lionel. Yeah. And you've invented these like spark generators that feel like they're the Shinra power plants where like your first mission is to turn them all on. And you also Isn't it mysterious that they've all been turned off? Right. And the first boss you fight in like the tutorial of the game is this Like Dragoon night Bat who is like called the terrorist and seems to be against the power plant. And I'm like, So he's the any hero we will play as in the expansion, right? Like obviously' he's the hornet. He's the zero, whichich I love that. I think it's not like it's not obvious in a like, oh go way. It's just like, o, okay, these are the seeds being planted. I'm excited to see how they kind of crystallize. But I think you know, it's nothing like super deep, but I think it's interesting because Trouble Kight has always had a strong sense of like fun and character. and Nina, it seems like they actually want to tell a slightly more meaningful story here. There is an interesting monologue for Nina after you put the first generator back on where she writes a letter to Lyionel I'm parhrasing a little bit, but she's like, while part of me wants to turn these off, like that would also be even worse. Like we kind of need this even though it's hurting us. Yeah. It reminds me a little bit of Death Stranding in that way where like there is this sort of grim acceptance of like, okay, yes, like what we're doing here is maybe not objectively good, but it's better than the alternative. Yeah. That's very much what Death Stranding too is going for Yeah I don't know how deep that's going to get, but I like that it's sort of setting up that intrigue at least. Yeah. But yeah, so like I think the game really succeeds at like the discovery angle, both in terms of the story and characters and also the mechanics. And like you find so many really interesting like trinkets and weapons, the way the inventory works You choose your weapon early on from three. There's a like chain mace whip weapon. There are two quick daggers and there's a hammer. Which one did you choose out of curiosity? I picked the hammer ' people told me it was the most like a souls game. Oh, interesting. That is true. It also gives you a dodge roll, which is unique to that weapon. Yeah, it's very interesting. I went with the chainmace U But I've actually I found in a secret room, I found a treasure chest that had the daggers in them. So now I have both. and I've found that I switch between them fairly often. I think the chain mace I like when I'm just exploring because I feel like having that range is really helpful just like in the wilderness. No, it totally makes sense. Yeah, when you jump, it'surther, right? I remember that from the demo. Yeah. But I like the daggers better for bosses So I can kind of get behind them and just like, know, And they all feel really distinct. The hammer seems cool. There's also two other weapons you can buy in town that are not available from the start. I will say though, like when you choose your weapon, choose so confidently because it's gonna be a while until you have either the money or the ability to discover second weapon. This is like maybe the harshest the game is pretty difficult. We haven't really talked that much about the difficulty of this game yet, but I think this is actually the harshest lesson they teach you is whenever you're given a choice, you really need to think about it and consider it pretty intensely because this is a it feels like a pretty willy nilly decision you're making very early on and will lock you in Probably three or four hours at the very least. Yeah. And I think the weapons are significantly like easier to understand that like there's a pretty big disparity between like how easy it is to play with the hammer versus the whip. Yeah. I mean, I love that you started with the hammer that that rocks. Have you been enjoying it? Yes and no. and I wonder how much of it is due to I think kind of higher level feelings about the combat in this game. But I guess we can get into it. So like it's worth mentioning the way this game works mechanically is like, as you mentioned, the sense of scale and adventure is kind of the biggest chunk of the game. You know, it is that like Oracle games version of a Zelda overworld that you're running around, but it's significantly more You know there are these generators that you need to turn on, I think six of them total. And from what I understand, like I think after the first one or maybe after the second one, you can kind of go do any of them in any order as long as you like have the means of exploring those areas. And that part is great. The part that is tougher is the way combat works and the way traversal works. When you burrow underground That allows you to avoid hits from enemies. So think of it kind of as your dodge role or as your dodge or your whatever. You also have the ability to jump in this game. So if you've played those like game boy era, Zeldas and you get the jump boots, you can like jump over stuff. Mina can do that from the very beginning of the game. and the game is throwing a lot of enemies at you They're all coming at you at once and they have the bloodborne damage recover or health recovery mechanic of when you take a hit, if you do enough damage to an enemy, it will fill up this secondary meter in your health bar that will show you how much health you'll recover if you drink a health potion. So there is that risk reward of doing more damage like they have in bloodborne prioritizes aggressive play in that way, which I think is a really cool idea and it's fun to see explored in this style of game. My main issue, I think with the game as a whole, really, is that it's putting a lot of stock in your ability to visually parse the verticality of the world and the enemies. And I think that's actually that was my biggest problem with the demo And it's not really a thing I feel like that has been fixed that much in the main game. I do find it difficult to know where things are in space, especially like once you get past that first mini boss you were talking about is when they start throwing more enemies that are like flying at you. Yeah. And because the game is basically laid out the exact same way as EZlda game from this era was laid out There is an almost isometric view to it, but everything is kind of flat. It's like if you ever took an art history class, those like pre understanding of perspective paintings that people used to have where everything was just on a flat surface. Everything was the same size. L that's what things look like in mean to the Hollower, but also because the combat is so ruthless and because things are moving around in space so frequently and so quickly, you need to be able to visually parse that stuff very quickly And I personally have found that I am not very good at that. I have a really hard time with the combat in this game and I haven't gotten used to it. The thing that I've gotten better at is the delay of the burrowing as a means of avoiding damage, which I think is great. Yeah that it takes a while to get used to that because if you've played any other souls like in the past, the idea rolling out of the way when you see an enemy winding up for an attack is not uncommon. What is uncommon is the way Mina handles it is that she has to jump into the air. You have to do the entire jump animation first before you burrow into the ground and then get away from the enemy, which means that you need to be anticipating attacks even before a lot of visual indicators that they're attacking start to show up on screen Which is tough to get used to. Don't get me wrong. Like that I think is the most like ruthless design piece of the combat itself. But once you get over that hump, avoiding damage becomes a lot easier. My issue really comes with the verticality of it all. Like my issue comes with, you know, spaces where they want me to be jumping. like I know, you know, Mina can jump one space normally or one one square normally Two squares if you do a burrow jump, which means you go into the ground and then you launch yourself out from there. Three spaces if you get a specific item, which I don't wantan to spoil for people. But beyond that, when you're in the heat of combat and there are many enemies around you at once. and also there are like pitfalls all over the place and environmental hazards and things like that. I do find it tough to tell what's going on and how to avoid it. And it feels beyond like a get good scenario. L it feels like it is just a byproduct of the way the game is designed visually that makes this a problem for me. I do want to highlight though, there are an incredible, incredible number of accessibility and difficulty options in this game. They have so many Tweak it in both ways. I was thinking so much about Sorros while playing this game and looking at that menu because Soros is a game that is abbsensively built around the idea of balancing modifiers to make the game more difficult or more easy, depending on what you want. And Ma the Hollower, I think, I'm not gonna say it does a better job, but it comes at it from a very different way that I think makes the game more enjoyable to everybody no matter what they want to do. I haven't turned any them on yet, but I think I think probably in my next session, I'll probably change some stuff just to make it a little bit more A little bit of a smoother experience on my end. Yeah, it's really cool that they're all there. I'm trying to get a sense of because the thing about this game is that the trinkets you find are basically like equivalent levers. Like some trinkets will basically give you the equivalent of one of those modifiers. Yes. So I'm seeing like what is like a fun thing this for myself, like on a subjective level like What can I make easier via treasure and what is actually just, oh, this is just the game forever I don't want this. know Right. Like I think I might turn off falling damage becausecause like, okay. so to frame it a little bit, I'm just gonna to describe like how the inventory works. Yeah. And then I want to follow up on the difficulty conversation a little bit. I think I've at least for myself found core of the truth here for me. So like I said earlier, you choose your weapon. It seems like there are only five weapons for the whole game. Also in the weapon like select screen, there are two little like vacant slots under each weapon. So I imagine there will eventually be an ability to add some kind of additional modifier or aspect to the weapon You also find sub weeapons. were you about to say something? I was going to tell you what that means, but maybe maybe I won't.aybe that can be a bit a secret from one. There'll be some discovery for That'll be discovery. I appreciate the restraint. The subweapons you find is like out and about like you would in Castlevania. So like the first couple subweapons you get are like straight up Castlevania, like the axe and the dagger. But then you find like The Princess peach parasel that lets you like float for a bit, which I absolutely love. Yeah. They're really cool. I do wish that you could just select them from your hideout. It is a little weird that they're rare enough drops that I find for the bulk of my time exploring. I just don't have one. I did see in a review that there is something similar to that. and it's not quite like you can just choose whichever one you want. There's a little bit more restraint And I think decision making involved. F my understanding of it, I was watching the IGN review, I think, and they just kind of breezed by the ability to do something like that later in the game that they add to the undernderleab. I did find in the room the grand hall before the first real boss, there's a bubble that like slowly swaps between you can visually see which subwapon it is So you can stand by that bubble and wait for the one you want and Ohop it likeike Kirby. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. That's fun. So that's cool. but I also have to like take the expxress word pipe to that very specific room if I want to use that. Yeah, that's one of the weird things is like because the items or because the subwapons are dropping in very specific places, like if there's one you really like, you can, like I did with the pebbles just for my own notes, you could just write it down and be like, okay well The pebbles will always be here or the axe will always be here whatever. Yeah. So yeah, so there's the weapon, the subwapon, and then there are trinkets. And in the beginning of the game, you can have one trinket equipped. At this point, I've played for seven hours, around seven hours. I have four trinkets. and two of them are like very specific. One is I can walk on spikes and take reduced damage and I don't get knocked back by spikes Yeah whichich is super specific, but very helpful for certain rooms. And then one is there's this like the gameess riff on the dung eater, it feels like there's a guy just like who smells awful and is like covered in filed. And whenever you talk to him, he's like, you smell terrible, takeake a bath. And if you keep talking to him, there's an optional boss fight with him where you can tell him it's actually who smells and then you have to fight him. and the trinka he gives you is a golden turd that whenever you kill an enemy, a fly swarms around you so you can have like a swarm of flies. It's really good. I recommend doing. Do the flies attack enemies Is that the idea?. It's sort of like the Bible, but it's flies. Yeah it's very binding of Isaac it is itamin binding of Isaac that does that Yeah, and then the two I just got. one is like basically a death defiance so I can die and then I'll be brought back. Yeah, wow. And then another one is there's basically when you die, it's like a souls game or like when you die you lose what's called the spark. And if you retrieve your spark, you'll get all your bones back, which is the currency And if you don't, you lose all of them. And I have a trinket now that lets me every now and then keep my spark when I die. And even if I die sparkless, I only lose half of my bones, which is huge. Yeah. And that's the thing about this game. I think the core of it that I think makes it confusing when talking about the difficulty because like comparing this to Silk song I remember when Silk Song came out, a lot of people were like, this is too hard, this is unfair. That kind of look, it's all subjective. Like difficulty is like a person by person thing. Yeah. But I think that conversation faded a little bit over time because Silk Song really despite all odds believes in you as the player You can get through that game with the bare necessities. Like, you know, there are so many items and weapons in Sk Song that are fully optional. And, you know, obviously there are there's really helpful stuff in there. But I think a common a common refrain I heard about Sk Song is like people would watch gameplay footage after beating and be like, wait a minute, you could get that the whole time that was there. So Silk Song definitely has that element of discovery and a lot of really helpful items as well. But like it is largely driven by your own motivation as a player and your understanding of the game. Mina is almost fully driven by trinkets. Like the trinkets are so powerful that on one hand, it makes that feeling of exploration and discovery really cool because it's kind of like Elden Ring or like an Elden Ring, you'll end up in like a place where the sky is red and it looks like hell and you open a treasure chest and you get a katana that like the worst Souls fans online will call you a baby for using, but it's so fucking cool and it makes the game easier. Like I love that. I love when you find an item that completely reframes the game Yeah In Mina, there's this weird thing where I think the game is designed in a way where I think they want you to feel that silk song internal motivation, but it's actually like easiest to progress with the extrinsic factors. Like your progress will be most immediately and noticeably made by getting items like in Iselda game. And that's not bad. I'm not complaining about that. I just think it makes the central design feel odd because like I think the harshest note I have for Mina is that burrowing is not as cool or fun as the game wants it to be. Like it feels like the burrowing mechanic was settled on very early on in development And then all these other things were built around it. And it doesn't feel central to the design of the game for me. It feels like another tool you have to use. And it's fun like it's fun to dig in the dirt and, you know, uproot a bunch of flowers and stuff. Yeah. It's fun as like a platforming thing. But like you said, as a dodge, the hardest thing for me is not the initial jump But is the four second later automatic jump out. Because it means that not only do you have to factor in the delay of the jump when you want to dodge, you also have to know ahead of time how long you have to be hidden for and hope that you don't pop out in the worst possible time of the attack. Yeah. Right. because you're in the ground for a certain amount of time Like you need to be anticipating the attack jumping before The attack animation even begins and then be underground and make sure you're clear of the enemy when you jump out. So you also need to like kind of predict where the enemy is going to go next, which some enemies are actually great for that. Like there's one pretty early on on your way to the first dungeon that's like a big knight with a big shield who has like a lance who just kind of like will shoot forwards in a certain direction wherever you happen to be. And if you burrow directly behind them, they do It's like a very classic, almost like original metal gear like who, Where did they go, you know? Which is really fun. Like That's great. That enemy in particular feels like the perfect design object to show off why all of these mechanics should work together and click together. But then you have the enemies like the little flying bats that are all over the place who will like hover around and then jump down onto the ground to wherever you happen to be. And like if you happen to jump in the wrong spot or whatever and you jump into them instead of like around them, if you misjudge where they are in space, you take a bunch of damage. like the amount of damage you take from contact damage is reallyend boosting defense more than you think you need to. Yeah whenever you bone up, which is theone up So the bones are your currency and your experience. Yeah. The other thing that kind of bothers me and again, I like the game a lot, but there's just a lot to criticize too, which is fine. Those are the most fun games to talk about. The underground laboratories, which I love. like the burrowing does feel good. I just think thats It doesn't always feel like the go to mechanic for what's happening around you. Yeah. So like when you burrow in these checkpoints, you have this little underground laboratory. and one of the things you have, in addition to like a treasure chest with your trinkets and know, you can change your loadout and stuff, there's also a like bank for bones. So as you adventure around and you find what's called bone dust You can basically like store a bunch of bones in this machine so that like you have a X amount of bones safely stocked away. Yeah. You can also when you level up, when you bone up, you which happens when you hit a certain numbers automatically will's say like, you level up, what do you want to invest in? You can upgrade your attack, your defense, the side arms Or you can make a bone gem to like store that amount of bones in the bank. I find it a little weird that I can't just like go to the checkpoint and deposit the bones I have on me. Like it feels like like I thought that was how it worked until I realized, oh, it has to be bone gems. It can't just be the bones on me, which I get why they did that. It just like feels weird and Okay, one last note. So I think I think my three biggest things are like the the burrowing is a little bit tricky as a dodge. It's fun as a traversal mechanic, but it's very difficult as a dodge. I think like there's a double edged sword to how powerful the trinkets are because like I said, like the game, I think wants you to have that soul's like bang your head against the wall until you figure it out And you can still do that, but I think like the amount of ease I've had since I've gotten the death defefiance strike like night and day. Yeah. But the other I think I think the thing about that sorry to cut there are a bunch of things like that in this game. There's a really good thread from Daniel Olson who has the great YouTube channel folding ideas who's been talking about this game a lot on Blueky. And the thing that he's been talking about a lot is like in his perspective, the game rewards grinding much more than it does in a lot of the games that it's pulling from, which I think is a really interesting point. You know, I think in a game like Bloodborne or Dark Souls, if you were to grind for levels, the amount the amount of Increase in your own ability, I think basically nonxistent. You know, like going from level ten to eleven in a Dark Souls game really doesn't make that big of a change. Going from ten to fifteen, maybe you know, if you put it all in strength or something, like maybe you'll start to feel the difference. And then of course by the end of the game, you're like, you know consistently starting to feel like you're leveling up alongside the world. But if you really want to grind, you can In M of the Hollower, because of the way the upgrade system works, every upgrade to either strength or defense or your sidearm stuff feels like huge. L you really feel the difference, which in that way for some players, at least as far as Daniel Olson is concerned, kind of points you in the direction of grinding in a way that the games that It's pulling from do not just because the way the leveling system differs, which I think is really interesting. And that feels to me like the trinket thing also where like it's going to be on a personal level. like if you want to keep the game kind of balanced and whatever, you won't go out into the world and just like defeat a bunch of enemies who can get enough bones to level up. You'll just kind of keep things where they're at and level up kind of naturally as time goes on. But there are certain trinkets that you can get, which will kind of trivialize some things. and then you could also over level yourself pretty significantly if you want to if you find like a good spot early in the game to just like grind bones on. I haven't done either of those yet, but like it does feel enticing sometimes when the runbacks between where I die and where I'm trying to get to are pretty extensive. Yeah, I think I would disagree slightly with the term grinding because you do get a certain amount of bones for defeating enemies, but it's very low And the amount of bones you need to level up gets higher and higher each level. So I guess you could grind, but it would probably take you hours. What's more beneficial and maybe this is what he means by grinding is you find more bones by exploring. And that's I think where the systems work because exploring is really fun. you're gonna to level up by exploring. you're going to find cool things. And to be clear, I like the trinket system. I think it's really fun to like see how much the game changes based on what I have equipped. It has that kind of binding of Isaac. like let's see what these combinations do. It also has that Zelda feeling, which you know Zelda is fully driven by like you're not getting better at the dungeon. You just have the hookshot now. But I think it's the central design that's confusing because like it's giving you bosses that are designed around this like You know, souls like structure, but then it's it feels like out of your decision making more dependent on your loadout than you as the player. Yeah whichich, you know, is not really a deal breaker. I just think it like it changes the expectation I have when I'm going into a session. Like when I'm playing silk song, I'm like clearing my head and really zeroing in on the feeling of movement and my understanding of the combat. And here I'm you know, I think it's telling that now talking about, you know, the dependency on bones and on items and stuff, right before the first big boss, there is a visible tunnel that takes you out of the dungeon and back into the world map And I think that's there to one, I mean, I think again, this game really excels at like the Dark Souls one level design, like Yeah finding Ways to link previously isolated parts of the world map together is really cool. But it pushes you out, I think, because a lot of people are going to struggle against that boss. and the game is being like, you should maybe explore and level up a bit first. whichich yeah is fine. I just think it just goes back to the game maybe feeling a little bit more scattered and less focused on one singular mechanic or even playstyle However, I do like thematically that this character is an inventor and this story is about you know technology and class and how you do get more powerful, the more money and stuff you have. that might be a generous read, but I do think that there's something there. Yeah. And I think this game from what I've heard from people I have talked to who've like beaten it or people Yeah much further than either of us are. The hardest part of the game is the beginning because of how few tools you have at your disposal, which you know again, like that sends you down that path of exploration first, which is I think like you where the game really, really shines. And it's like what I enjoy doing most of the time when I'm playing this game is just kind of poking the edges talking to NPCs and hearing their weird stuff and getting jumped scared by a weird clown all the time. just like there's a lot of really So good. ye Yeah it's really fun stuff. And like even when I first unlocked the town, I just I probably spent like a full hour just like kind of burrowing around looking for little secrets around the town, which is way bigger than you think it's going to be and then also has a bunch of secrets that you could find like right at the beginning of the game. and then a bunch that obviously you'll need to find later You know, you have one spark available and there's one, I think one door in the whole town that you can open with one spark, but there are very clearly other doors marked with multiple sparks. So you know, okay, when I get a second spark, it's going to be a big deal. Maybe when I beat the first boss, donon't tell me, but maybe when I beat the first boss, I get another one. stuff like that. Now I can go back there. I can open the second door, see what's in there and so on and so forth. like That stuff is where the game really shines for me. and I'm just kind of at this point where I'm like just trying to get over that initial hump. L I just want to get past that part where the game is really difficult and is preventing me from doing the thing I want to be doing until I get to the point that you get to in all Souls like games and things that are inspired by Souls Lkes, like this, where you start to get a handle on what's possible in the world And the mechanics kind of get out of your way and just allow you to explore. like that's the best part of Elden Ring. that was the best part of Hollow Knight and Silk song. likeike that will be the best part of me to the Hollower because it's already the best part of M to the Hollower. It's just I'm so bad at the combat right now that I can't do it effectively. Yeah. you know. Yeah. And I think once like I now I think I mentioned this before, but I now have two sparks. I can equip T trinketsice I have multiple weapons. I'm looking forward to spending like twenty real life minutes in my lab being like, what is the perfect loadout for this boss? Yeah. That's going to be when I think the feeling of, okay, yes, my progress is maybe dependent more on my equipment, but I'm choosing what I have equipped Yeah. And I'm choosing like the outcome of this. and that's where I think This sort of personal motivation will balance back in favor. It's like Seo you, using the Shnobby arts and the tools and stuff, you know, It's like you get to choose which ones you're going to have equipped and you get to choose which ones you're gonna make use of. And realistically, it should be all of them. I think it was smart to start off difficult And I think there is something really rewarding about being like, o, I can cheat death now. And like even though you're just finding this stuff, like the game is very good at rewarding curiosity. Me talking to that guy covered in shit paid off. me finding this a mysterious I used a key and found a statueor A cure. A cure. Thankk you. There' gears and keys in one ph. A cure And there was a statue's head just like in the world map. I know exactly where that goes. And I carried it back, which was really fucking hard in a fun way. Yeah. I carried it back and I got rewarded like sometimes in these games, like I always think about Breath of the Wild, like it's almost not worth doing any of the side s because they give you like twenty rubies. And it's like, why did I waste my time helping this artist? Yeah. But here it's like Every time you go like, I wonder what that does. like pursue that. L you will be happy you did. There's an amazing video and And I guess like skip ahead thirty seconds if you don't want to hear anything about this, but there's an amazing video by King Kay on YouTube where he just went into one of the vendors and stole the ladder that they used to climb and like find objects in the store in Mina. Yeah And took it outside of the store and started using it to access areas that like you couldn't get to before. Oh hell yeah. So interesting. And like it showed up in the newspaper also in town that was like I love the newspaper. Ladder goes missing in vendor's store. So interesting. Yeah, the newspaper will report on like what you've done and also give you like some in game stats. It's such a fun detail and's That's why I love this game. It's just like It feels really alive. And the things that don't fully come together about it, I think are mostly early game woes and maybe just like some small version of sccope creep with the game's development where there maybe is like a little bit too many things, too many systems happening. but I think it overall balances out in the game's favor will say When you get to that first generator, it's fucking amazing. Like it is so cool the way you power them on. I won't spoil it, but like it feels like you're suddenly playing a different video game in the best way. That's cool. kindind of reminds you of like I would say the biggest surprise of this game is that like the platforming is not as sharp as you would expect it to be given Yacht Club games as past with Shovel Kight. I think a lot of that is due to the top down nature of it and that it's supposed to feel like a little bit challenging early on. and I'm sure I'll get trinkets that give me like bat wings and stuff and it'll be easier But I think that the generator part is where like it suddenly feels like, oh yeah, this is like the best Super Nintendo game that never existed. Yeah. Yeah, like I really love this game. Obviously we were pretty critical of a lot of it, but I think that's really just like by virtue of how much is in this game, like how much it's trying to accomplish, how many systems there are I think it's only natural that not all of them will like fully kind of work together. But overall, like I think the game works better as a whole the further you get in. And yeah, I'm just very excited to get further into this one. Yeah, same. I've been playing it kind of in like one hour increments. I think is where I've realized that's kind of where my like levels of frustration with it kind of capap out is like usually at around an hour, I die in a way that I feel like is bullshit. and I'm like, okay, well, back to Lego Batman for B to eno gears. Yeah or that. But in general, I do enjoy the feeling of progress I have every time I sit down and play it and we'll continue to chip away at it. One thing, I just need to shout this out and this is so in the weeds, I think for you in particular, but I know there are some listeners who will care about this. I have been playing this on The AYN Thor, that Android handheld I have. And if you use Game Native, which is an app that you can use to log in Steam and play Steam games on your Android devices, you can add like a CRT filter and like chromatic aberration and stuff to this game. and it looks amazing and it is now my favorite way of playing this game. because I was playing it on the TV at first and I like, I mean, it looks good. It's a good looking video game and it blows up well on the TV, etcetera Man, on a handheld with like a CRT shader, this game looks amazing and I'm I'm like really surprised there's not a C RRT shader built into the game considering obviously like the aesthetic it's going for. Yeah, I've been playing on Steam Deck. and I also played it on the TV a little bit via the dock. Does your Steam Deck dock work one hundred percent of the time? because I feel like it's truly up to fate when that thing decides to work for me. No Don't use the Steam Deck dock anymore. I got a different dock from a company called JSaw that I use, and even that doesn't work one hundred percent of the time. I think it's my guess at this point is that it's more of a SteamOS limitation than it is like a hardware limitation from the dock itself. Just like a HDMI core. It's not like that's basically just like a forty dollars thing you can get off Amazon, you know. But yeah, it's just so weird Sometimes it will work instantly, sometometimes it will take me like an hour to like unplug it and replug it enough for it to work. My weird issue is that every once in a while, my TV will just suddenly like act as though I change the input to the screen to the input I'm already looking at. So like I'm on HDMI three, which is what I don't have a Steam deck anymore, but I have like a Steam OS handheld that I use And suddenly it'll be like you switch the channel to HDMI three again and the audio will turn off. And then if I keep playing for a while, it'll do that again and then the audio will turn back on. And that happened with my Steam deeck and that also happens with the ROG Ally, which check which trrinkets you have equipped that might be It's probably the trrinkets that you're probably a dung eater trinket. Yeah. don't dont Yeahah, I don't haveough sparks for this. But yeah, no Amina iss awesome I'm sure it will come up again. and yeah,'s it's definitely like if you're someone who likes secrets, it's the best game of the year so Yeah there are a million of them. Yeah. I think just like go look at the reviews. everyveryone really likes it. You probably will too Also yeah, of the make use of the modifiers. if you're if you're real if it's really impacting your enjoyment, like I might also do that because I just think that like there's a lot of like different there are different kinds of challenging moments in this game and I think not all of them are going to be what you are signing up for. Yeah. Youike you might be like, I'm fine with challenging platforming, but I don't really care about tough bosses or like vice versa, you know Where I get kind of frustrated is like when I'm in a room that has like It's it's really the bats, isn't it? Its like b all the issues It's like the verticalities hard to read and they're annoying. And there's like there's one room where it's like little like lasers are being shot at you while there are bats. And I'm like everything about know exactly what you're talking about. Like I'd rather just go to the DMV at this point. L this is just so annoying in a way that's not fun or interesting Yeah, But that's also like the game is doing that Simon' Qu Dragon's Dogma thing where it's like, yes, some of these places fucking suck. It's a real place. Yeah. This is not like a alhored level for your enjoyment. This is like a terrible cave that you can maybe get through if you are enough of a seasoned adventurer. Yes, whichich I like that too. I respect that. I think once I see the full game I'll have a stronger sense of like what feels like it paid off and what is maybe a step too far. you know, And that's also going to be a personal call. My biggest piece of advice to people if they're starting me in the Hoower is there is an in game manual that is great. It's just a couple of pages long and will teach you a bunch of things that the game does not teach you at all, but it's all just written in the manual and you can go check it out. Like even it took me probably like forty five minutes to even learn that the underlab was a place you could go to at S save points. Like' it didn't occur to me. I thought that save pointints were just like a square tile that you walked over and then it saved the game. It took me a long time. L I made it past the first like mini mini boss, I guess, the one that like gets you into the city without knowing that the underlap existed. And then afterwards, I was like, let me look at some of the settings in here and I saw the manual and then I read it, I was slapped myself in the head card. Anyway, Min and the Holler. good video game. It's available on basically everything. If you get it on the switch too, I heard it plays one hundred twenty frames per a second, which is probably amazing. Yeah, it's great on Steam Deck. and I will also say music is great per usual. Oh my go, the music is so good. The sound effects too, like there's a sound that plays whenever Mina stamps the letter she's writing. 's good such a good sound effect. Really excellent work. All right, let's take a break. When we come back, we'll stop talking about this game that looks like a Game Boy Color game and start talking about a game that is a Game Boy cololor game. A real Game Boy cololor game. Can't wait. Bye bye. See youa This episode of Int the Ather is brought to you by Jenny Reid, the author of the book Neon Crown, a debut book in a new sci fi romantasy series. Pitched as a cyberpunk anastasia, it tells the story of Nessca, a woman approached by a con man to pretend to be a long lost princess in order to collect her inheritance. It'll take more than the easily available tech to convince anyone she's a royal Youll also need a lot of conviction and ingenuity. There are also ghosts. Great wow. If you're a fan of scrappy criminals stealing from the rich and punishing them, Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven, Blade Runner or Ghosts in the Shell, or just an easy read, give this one a try. You can find Non Crown on the Kindle store, either on your device or the app. Thank you so much, Jenny. This sounds wonderful, and thank you so much for supporting the show. Thanks so much If you would like to get a commercial ad read, you can do so and to the cast that online. Bye, everyone. Bye bye Stavhven, we're back. Hello. And I need to ask you a question. Yeah, what's up? Are there games from your youth that have haunted you Why do you think this podcast exists? Yes. Mischief Makers, Chameleon twwist, rascal Twist ye. Basically every game I've rented primarily for the N sixty four or PS one, if you're around my age, you know exactly what I'm talking about. We're like we all rented in that generation, we rented games We're at an age where we weren't sure if they were dreams or not. So like like in Mischief Makers, it's a game where you grab like weird shy guy enemies and go, shake, shake, shake, shake. And like ye that has been the only thing I knew about. So I couldnt just Google shhake, shake to figure out what that game was and then finally I like, Ohh my go, it's Mischief Makers. Got it. Okay cool. Yeah, many, many games most things haunt me at this point Yeah No, that's fair. That's understandable. It's a haunted person. I have a couple that are always stashed away in the back of my head and because you know, of all the things that I do on a weekly basis, one of them is cohost Ne Portable Console, which is like a show about retro games or retro game handheld specifically. I'm like always testing new handhelds and like trying to decide what games I want to play on them while I'm in the testing phase. I've been testing one recently that is basically like Perfect Game Boy Color. It says, I'll show it to you. I'm sure some people have seen it, but like it flips up. Oh wow, look at that. It's called the RG Rotate. and it basically like it's a little square that flips up to reveal like game Boy controls. And I was like, okay, well I should really definitely pick like a good game Boy or game Boy Color game to dig into on this thing. And one of the games that has haunted me for years and years is Pocket Bomber Man the Game Boy Color. It was originally released on just the regular Game Boy and then got ported to Game Boy Color. and they obviously added color to it. And I think another mode as well. But this this is a bizarre game because it's by Hudson Sooft who are like the Bomber Man people, but was published by Nintendo. L this is officially technically a Nintendo game, which is an interesting thing. Yeah Bomber Man was like flirting with The N sixty four games were also published by Nintendo Yeah and Bomber Man was like kind of an unofficial Nintendo character for a hotm. Yeah. And this is like this is really truly the era where that I think is the strongest. Yeah. Pocket Bomber Man is fun because it feels fun to bring up right now because it's like almost kind of the opposite of M of the Hollower where And yacht cllub games in general. whereere Mina the Hollower is now this kind of isometric top down view exploring this big world. and you, their first game Shovel Night was a side scrolling platformer. Pocket Bomberan takes Bomber Man from being that top down kind of puzzle solving, make your way around amaze, and don't blow yourself up, but also blow up all the enemies view And turns it into a side scrolling level based platformer., which is really fun and silly. And it's just a really bizarre game in general, but one that really again, haunted me when I was a kid. L I could never really make it past the seconde world. The whole premise of Pocket Bomberan is like there's a big tower and the light has left the world and Bomberan, who for some reason in this one is like wearing a cape. He's more heroic. like's a real Nintendo was like what if we how can we Marioify Bomberan.. Yes, exactly. he's also giving like kind of a dragon quest, I'm looking at the art as the box art. he's looking at a dragon wearing a cave. It's a little bit more of a heroic energy here. Yes. And the whole thing is that he's like trying to get this like sort of legend and he needs five crystals to get the sort of legend. It's so funny that that's the premise of the game because the actual game itself has nothing to do with any of that. Yeah, right exactly. The game itself is like you travel between know you're going up this big tower and the tower has five Five levels to it, and each of those five levels has five levels within it. So the first one is the forest level, then ocean, then wind, then cloud. and then you all guessed it, evil is the last floor. And you just need to make your way up through those twenty five levels. and that's the end of the game. And at the end of every one of those floors is a boss that you have to fight Weirdly the game plays exactly like top down Bomber Man, just on a two D platforming plane. So you can jump around and you can put bombs down wherever and like they'll float in the air, they'll float in space, whatever. And they're enemies all around these levels. and you need to defeat all the enemies without dying or blowing yourself up. And just also like in Bomber Man, you're getting all the same power upps. like all the same power upps from Bomber Man are there Bomb up, which increases the amount of bombs that you can have on the ground at any given time. Fire up, which increases the range of the explosions, which is usually how people kill themselves in Bomberan because they don't understand how many squares their bomb is going to explode and then they're too close to it. Speed, which lets you move faster. And then there's also, you know like the remote control, which makes it so when you put a bomb down, you have to press select to blow it up which is basically overpowered in this game. It's like way to beat the entire game pretty easily. And you just jump around these big platforming levels and try to destroy all the enemies. and it's not particularly difficult. And I guess when I had it as a kid I was just really bad at it. This game came out in nineteen ninety seven, nineteen ninety eight, it looks like. So I was six years old when this game came out and never really made it past I think the ocean level. Maybe I made it into the wind level, actually now I'm thinking about it. But that was as far as I ever got. And I was like, now is the time. Now I'm going to revisit Pocket Bomber Man and I'm going to give it a shot and see how it goes. And I just there are a lot of things to say about the experience of playing Pocket Bomberan right now, especially alongside me the Holler. But I think first and foremost, I am so surprised at how good this game is. and I am simultaneously so interested in all the reviews of this game that I read. I had such a great time going ono the interternet archive And looking at old reviews from when this game came out, like the official IGN review of this game from nineteen ninety eight is a fascinating read. Where did they give it? didid they give it a score? Wait, let me click on it again. I forget if there was a score on it. I'm looking at the history of Bomberman because I'm like I have a very specific era of Bomber Man where I was like really into this series. Yeah It looks like from nineteen nineteen eighty three is the first Bomberman game hell, yeah. And then seven sorry, seven out of ten Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Between nineteen ninety, the year of my birth to twenty ten Yeah, there were multiple Bomberan games every year. w. L it is wild. And then there's like a very noticeable stop in twenty eleven. Yeah. And basically between twenty eleven and now, there have only been like five Bomberman games. The most recent one was a collection M which is kind of a bummer, Pocket Bomber Man is in that collection. I think in general, it has been a great time to go revisit a game that I could not beat as a kid and then beat it. I have finished Pocket Bomber Man. Oh, congrats. I defeated the demon on floor five of the evil layer of the Ter I got all five crystals and then got the bigig sword, which just ends with a cutscene that's like, thanks for playing And like that's the entire video game. Yeah, it's funny like the combination of this might have been like Yacht Club games is like motivation is like we want to capture that retro difficulty, but give it meaning. Yeah. because so many of those games are so hard and then it ends like, thank you. And that's's like why why did I get so much time? Exactly what it's like Yeah, that' how I felt too, because I watch I was watching two shows back to back, Widows Bay, which is a great horror comedy show on Apple TV. and then they rem, did you say they remade Amadeus as a TV show? I did not. How was It's fine. But I started watching it and just like the thing I was playing in the background while watching both of those TV shows was Pocket Bomber Man. And it took me like literally every released episode of both shows to finish the game because I was still not great at it. and I think being too impatient and blowing myself up all the time, but they do the thing that they did back in the day where they didn't have, say files, but they would generate these like unbelievably long stream Weird passwords. Yeah Yeah. that you would then need to type in to like get to exactly where you were before, which was really fun. And I ended up finishing the game this morning, which I'm very thankful for. You're a pro gamer, you're a pocket gamer. I'm a pocket gamer That was a site, wasn't it? I think so. yeah. Anway, sorry I'm just like I'm surprised they didn't take this idea any further. you know? I think it like reviewed fine and performed okay commercially, and then it did not become the future of Bomber Man, which I think makes sense because that original idea for what Bomber Man is, I think is like more fun and more interestnteresting in a lot of ways, but I feel like they had something here and I'm disappointed that they never took it any further. Well, I think them taking it further was the sixty four era because Bomberan sixty four is very much what if Bomber Man was a three D action adventure game in the realm of Mario sixty four? Yeah. That was the game I played a lot as a kid and it's like Really hard to understand how to play. like the main mechanic is to grab a bomb, make it big so you can then jump on it. and it's like so unintuitive. Yeah. But that game really the vertical space is hard to Yeah's I guess it's kind of isometric, but it's like fully three D and That was a game that I just loved like getting lost in. because you could also just go to any level other than the final final one with the plot twist, of course. Yeah. But like you could just jump around and it felt so mysterious to me. I think as an adult, I can recognize like, oh, it's just like it's just not that good Yeah. But it's like, I guess it kind of haunted me in the sense that I always felt like I was missing something. But it is a really like the soundtrack and the environments are really cool.s Interesting early three D game. and they followed that up with Bomber Man Hero that was way more arcadady. Incredible soundtrack. like one of the best video game soundtracks ever. It's so good. highighly recommend the soundtrack. but that game like was maybe an over correction. That game like throwing a bomb was tied to one button and was it was less about like exploration and mystery and more about dislike throwing bombs enemies. Although there was some fun stuff where like you had a salt bomb that was only good against slugs. I can remember that very vividly And then the next game was Bomber Man I Second atttack, which was like a follow up to the sixty four style, where you had a strange sidekick. I think its name was Pommy. and he would like evolve like a Digimon depending on the kinds of bombs you use.. And there was this like very involved story and all these different elements. I guess my point is that They really tried to make Bomber Man like a single player action adventure game and it never really took off. And then I think the games that followed that were kind of a return to form. like Bomber Man onnline for the Dreamcast. Yes, dude. was a really that's a fantastic game, but that's very much like we're going back to the square room puzzle multiplayer focus I don't really know much about what followed after that, but at that point I just sort of stopped hearing about Bomber Man. Yeah after A that we just kind of kept getting like variations on a theme. Yeah, It's kind of like what's happening with Pac Man now where every once in a while, we get like a newversion of Pac Man. It's kind of There's Bombererm Man Kart DX, whoa, what I feel like it's similar to what Enhance is doing with their Games like Tetris Effect and the new luminous game that they released and stuff where it's like Bomber Man and Pac Man whenever they get new games now, they're just kind of like, it's the same game you loved in the arcade, but now it's all like neon or cooler than it was before. You know it's like more modern aesthetics and better music and blah blah blah, Well you know subjective on all of that That's I feel like where Bomber Man is at now. And I think I said this on the Dreamcast episode about Bomber Man online and I feel it so deeply, especially after playing Pocket Bomber Man again, which has like first of all, one of the best pause menus of a game, which is just Bomber Man in his night's outfit for some reason that he's in throughout the game, napping under a tree in like a beautiful landscape And that's the pause menu and it's amazing. And I'm obsessed with it. Yeah I love the aesthetic. Like I remember as a kid when I was getting into drawing, I would draw Bomber Man and all the different characters like all the time. this is my point. So the thing that I've been hitting on and the thing I feel so deeply is like, what a what a fumble to not be investing in Bomber Man more because the design is so iconic and so adorable and I feel like it is so Rpe for being a thing that people are obsessed with right now as much as they were in the eighties when it came out. Yeah, especially like the aesthetic of Bomberment online specifically. has that like Y two K SegA Dreamcast era look. It' so good. I also love that that was an era where the internet was new enough that you could just have online in the title. Yeah. so manyreamcast As many and sixty four games have sixty four in the title, Dreamcasts had that, but for online. like Fanty S Star online, Bomberman online, so good. Santny Sar Online tooight. Well, I'm gl I'm glad you resolve a childhood haunting memory. Thank you. Theres There's one other game that's at the top of this list that maybe I'll talk about one day. I think it's more weirdly Halloween themed. So I think maybe as we get closer to Halloween, but there's one game that haunts my entire family that I think about all the time that I do need to revisit at some point. The last game before the Super Bomberan collection was in twenty twenty three called Super Bomber Man R two Yeah. And it has a hyperlink to a Wikipedia article that doesn't exist. So that's about as well as that did, I guess. Perfect. Yeah. so yeah I'm curious Yeahah, this I feel like I agree. I think it's time for Bomber Man come back, you know? Yeah. Oh, I wonder how amazing Bomber Man is from twenty twenty two. What a good name. It's like they're going like Spiderm Man with a Yeah Yeah, I do like that. This game looks sick. What are they doing? Bomber Man Acid Zero from two thousand six is like they tried to coffee filter Bomber Man. Look at this. Wait Bomber Man A accid Zero. Yeah, Bomberancid zero. He doesn't look like Bomberan at all. He looks like master chief with like chains. Oh God wait. This looks awful. Yeah, they've tried to like reinvent the wheel a lot. It looks like, oh my Godd. got zero. Oh yeah, I see. I'm sorry, yes Mr Ex is far away. IGN gave it a three. Yes. I do remember this. This is horrifying looking. He looks like He looks like Master Chief meetspawn. Yeah, it's giving Sawn. Of course this is from two thousand six. Yeah. Oh my god. It's apparently on the list of the worst video games ever made. Wow. I w to learn more about this Let's take a break and then we can learn more about this. And when we come back, we'll talk about another video game. Sounds good. See you then. Bye Bomber Man. Bye Bomber Man, please come back, but not as act zero. Come back as our third host. See you. Yes,abom Steven, we're back once again. know what you know what I think might have been missing? What was I don't think Bomber Man has a voice. Oh yeah. Well they had there wasn an anime. Oh, was there? Yeah, I wonder what his vo sounded like. I've never watched it, but I know there was a TV show. There was a little bit of like a he had like a kind of a he would like vocalize what was happening, but I wonder if that was like the missing piece. like you need to give him like a kind of gx persona of some kind Yeah I know I know there's always the joke, but I do feel like like like a Danny DeVito voice coming out of bomber Man would be so funny or Verner Herzog You gotta use the salt bombs for the slugs. Yeah., I would love that. That'd be great. I guess just to cap off that last segment, it's just a rallying cry, whatever games you're haunted by from your youth, go try them again. Maybe it'll be fine. Or make a new game that's based on the memory of that haunting vision. Maybe. Maybe you could do that Yeah U there are a lot of different avenues. I think there's also, I think another avenue, which is you go play that game and you realize that it was terrible the whole time and you're like, Oh, that's why r That's why I was so bad at it. was because it was not a good video c. That's why I especially hate rascal for the PS one is because I played it at such a young age. I thought it was my fault. right That it was like I thought was oh, I'm messing up so bad the problem I mean, don't know, it's just an awful video game where you have a bubble gun that doesn't work. Yeah. This was me with Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade on the Seg of Genesis. I always thought I was the problem and I was like, oh, no, I was not the problem with this game. Good segue to what you've been playing that I w want to play it just haven't gone to yet. That's true. Yeah. I've been playing zer zero seven first light, which is basically a full scale like reboot of The James Bond franchise in video game form, upp until now, really, most I'm saying most James Bond games were movie tie ins. Like a lot of the ones that came out were all related in some way to either a Pierce Brosnen movie or a Daniel Craig movie with one Sean Connery movie thrown in there on the Sony PlayStation portal and other platforms. but the one I always think about is the PSV version of. It was the GameCube as well. Yeah ye Yeah, I remember learning that it was a Goldeneye, Im was a gold finger. I'm like, that's not right. And then I thought I was like, the Austin Powers to James Bond like thought process. I was like, wait, what is the title? Yeah. Golden Eye, I didn't realize was a movie until much later in life. I just thought it was a video game. It was like I would wager that that game was probably more at least to our generation was way more relevant than the movie even. I think so too. Yeah. I mean, I remember watching the movie around when it came out, but I mean, I was playing Goldenye on the N sixty four like well into high school. Like I remember I had this one friend who lived across the street from the high school that you and I both went to. Yeah like literally across the street and very frequently we would get out of school at the end of the day and we' would just cross the street and go play Golden Eye while we figured out what we wanted to do for the rest of the day. Yeah it really was Pre Halo, it was like the multiplayer FPS game. Yeah. I've always been a little bitter even as a kid about Golden Eye ' I so strongly preferred perfect Dark. And no one wanted to play Perfect Dark. They just wanted to play gold. and I'm like, it is the same team and better and original. Yeah. You can play as a guy named mister Blonde and give him an alien head. You can play as an alien named Elvis and like American flag Oesie. What else do you want? Yeah, but where's Oddjob is the question. Yeah. I want Oddjob's hat. Yeah, I think the main complaint of Perfect Dark is that when you get punched, you got dizzy And when you died and respawn, the dizziness didn't go away. So one really cheesy strategy was just to punch somebody until they like literally couldn't see. and that kind of ruined the whole That's very funny for. That's really funny. Yeah. I just thinks it's the better shooter. I've said it many times, I'll say it every time Golden Eyight comes up. I'll also say about Golden Truly, look, respect to what that game was, it's not a game that holds up really No I think I learned this the hard way with the Gamecube episode. Many painful lessons from that episode, An any console shooter pre halo is like really hard to go back to. Yeah. As someone who isn't that like into that genre, I can recognize that like Halo was the game that like figured out how a console shooter should feel. Yeah because that was obviously so central to the mouse and keyboard set up on PC. Yeah. And yeah, Golden Eye for its time was a lot of fun. and it's still like There's novelty in going back to it. I think I think again, like to give them some credit at the time, it was amazing and I agree with that, but boy, have we moved past it?. And I would even my my argument about Goldenyight always was that the better James Bond game came just a few years later as Nightfire. I think Nightfire which was an Ufire was also fun. Yeah. Nightfire was this like original James Bond game that they made that wasn't tied into a movie and had not only like a much better campaign that felt better to play, but also had amazing, amazing multiplayer U And I love that game deeply. And honestly, like I haven't really enjoyed a James Bond game since if I'm being real. like I've played basically, I like James Bond. I've played all of them, but they haven't really stuck with me. and it's been a long time since we goted one. Yeah. Was it that areera like the game cbe that they were coming out. Yeah. I'm going to Google it. What was the last James Bond game? let's see If you're not counting Gax because he's sort of He's James Bond Dinner. you're right. twenty fourteen to twenty nineteen, there were no James Bond games. Okay that adds up with my memory. Yeah. know, I think it's more yeah twenty fourteen to now, basically there were no James Bond games. It looks like the last one that was released was zero zero seven Legends on the PS three three hundred sixty and Wi U. And I have no idea what that was about. I don't think I played that one. Yeah Casino Royal is two thousand six. So starring Daniel Craig Yeah, I was I'm curious like in that era where Bond like that Daniel Craig era, I think wanted to be taken more seriously. I wonder if there was less of an interest in like video game tie inss at that time. Yeah, a lot of the ones in the Daniel Craig era are not related to movies also Yeah. So I I think you're totally right about that. They did they did that remake of Golden Eye, which was fascinating. And I think we might' have talked about the DS version. I don't remember on that episode, but probably not. I mean, maybe we played it, but I don't know if it was on our list. The only one from the Daniel Craig era that got a movie treatment was Quantum of Solace, which famously is the worst Daniel Craig bond . I love if that's a metric of like if this gets below a certain percentage around tomatoes, we're gonna make a die ye That's like a threat.. Yeah, I remember that game not being particularly great. And then it's been that long just about since we got a new one, which is pretty wild. There was like a weird spinoff that was on Apple Arcade briefly when Apple Arcade first launched, which I don't remember anything about. But anyway, all of that leads to where we are now which is zerozero seven First Light, which is a game by IO Interactive, who most famously are known for being the overseers of the Hitman franchise, which has been an extremely successful and deeply popular critically and commercially spy immersive Sim game Those games are very cool. We haven't talked about them that much on the show. They've come up a couple of times, but we haven't talked about them that. I defitely played hitman three. I actually haven't played any of them yet. Oh, really? Yeah, like I don't know what it is. I just like they always sound cool to me and then I never like actually get them. This I think might be your in if I'm being honest. I think it like it. Maybe the best way to get into it I remember when they announced this in J like in this announcement that IOI was going to take over James Bond, it just felt like the most obvious choice you could possibly make.. Like it was the equivalent to me of inssomniac taking over Spider Man for Marvel was like, oh, you mean the team that has like completely nailed how characters should move on a screen are taking overally. Yeah feel like their other games kind of match Spider Man's tonone.. IOI taking over James Bond was like such a slam dunk, but there are so many open questions about how you go about doing it. And the way that they've chosen to do it is to have a new James Bond. They like have it, they got an actor and he's playing James Bond and he is James Bond in this They got, you know, like a basically a totally new riff on I won't say the James Bond origin story because it's not really going that far back in his life, but this is how he becomes an MI six agent. Like this is the path from him getting picked up by MI six into and through his training in the O program up through him becoming zer zero seven, which I think is an interesting thing to go after and something that I honestly was not that I guess enthused by. I think the weakest part of the Daniel Craig saga as Bond is when they tried to like tie into the lore and make it like a kind of connected universe of like, all the James Bond movies are and they all kind of feed into this one thing and were explaining his like past and his heritage and his parents and all this stuff. none of that stuff really made James Bond more interesting. I actually think James Bond is more interesting, the more mystery there is about his background. And even if his name is really James Bond, I think that's the biggest thing to me is like I like the idea that all of these people are z zero seven Their code name is James Bond and that gets passed down throughout time. Oh, that's fun. It' more interesting to me than like this man's name is canonically James Bond and his parents' last names were also Bond and he was like an orphan and then he became a spy. Like that's less interesting to me. Out of curiosity., A bit of a side note, but which do you have a favorite boond of all the people who've played them You know, I actually do think it's Daniel Craig at this point. I just rewatched all the good toards the end of last year, Percy and I just decided to like rewatch the whole James Bond franchise. Wow and going going it was a lot. Going through all of it, I really think the Daniel Craig ones stood out to me. H His portrayal as Bond in general, I think is really fascinating and a pretty big break. I loved the Pierce Brosnan era while it was happening.'s good I think there is this feeling in my head that he is James Bond because like that was the one I grew up with. But I feel the same way. Yeah. I think it's kind of hard to beat Connery. and I think Daniel Trg's take is like really, really interesting and really well done. Yeah, I think I'm similar where like because when we grew up, Pierce Brosnan was like the first image of Bond I saw. and I think the Sean Connery movies are probably the best. Like if you were to say like what are the Bond movies to watch, I would say like three of the best are in the Connery era at least. And three of the worst also That's what mean, there's a lot of that My hot take is that I feel like if Timothy Dalton got more moviestely there. Y. Yeah. I like was very under utilized. Yeah Yeah. he was very good. Yeah. I will say high level love this game. Like really, really love it. In a way I wasn't expecting, especially after the first gameplay demo they showed off, I was like, oh, this is uncharted Like once again, it's uncharted, but it's James Bond. We've said this many times on the show and it's alost like it's almost like a joke at this point, but we mean it seriously. It's like the strangle hold that uncharted has on the AAA industry in this space is like unmatched, unrivaled. Like Uncharted really taught every single AAA studio how to make a narrative video game. Yeah. and on one hand, it's like you and I love uncharted. I love doing our bonus about uncharted, But it was a little depressing doing our and I've said this before, but like doing our best of two thousands episode and seeing like in two thousand, you start with like a certain kind of game. Yeah. And then you get to two thousand nine and it's like in nine years, we go from, you know, a game like FF nine Which you know, apples and oranges, but it's like you have sort of like a game that is like abstracting, like you know, pre rendered backgrounds, like you know, a narratively ambitious game took the form of something like Chrono Cross or FF nine in two thousand. And then in two thousand nine, you get uncharted two, which is like a playable movie. Yeah, whichich at that time was like, oh my God, it's incredible. And look how far we've come In terms of just like how you can make a game, not inherently better, but it's like look at the different forms games are taking in this decade. Yes. And now it's like I am very excited for when we eventually do our twenty twenty' episode inevitably, but I'm bracing for being like, okay, and we're still doing that Unarted for X Yeah. We haven't really like there are plenty of games that have been really ambitious and like you know challenged the expectation of the form a game can take, but like it was happening at such a wild frequency in the two thousands and I feel like it's reached a little bit more of a safe place in recent decades. Yeah, I think the thing that you and I say a lot is that a lot of these games are they are uncharted in the way you move throughout the world for the most part and then also the way the narrative is told to you. But they all have like one or two major twists on that formula to kind of make things a little bit more interesting or more unique in their own ways. I think like Ghost of Sushima and Yote, great example, like They went all in on making the world as beautiful as possible, having an open world and you know having the design be more similar to like a Ubisoft open world style thing. But like in narrative moments, it's an uncharted. When you're exploring that world, you are, you know shimmying across ledges and stuff and every once in a while, one gives way and you go, whoa. Oh no, what if I I would love if one gave way and I actually fet actuallyll in this story, that's how you die and you have to play as someone else after that L commit to that. Cit to the way. What? I didn't expect that. And now it's like, I'm his son, James Bond junior. Jimmy Bond. JBJ is here to play. something like God of warar, I think is another good example. basically uncharted, but you know, they have kind of a soulsyer combat And over the top boss fights, like cinematic boss fights. And this game is basically uncharted, but every once in a while, you will be thrust into a level that is essentially like a hit manan Imersive S level where spycraft is the most important thing. You're not like running around getting into fights with everybody. You need to like disguise yourself. You need to talk your way out of situations. you need to like do real spy work to find where to go next. And the answers to those questions are often very complex and have a lot of player freedom, which is Those hitman games were best known for it. likeike basically everything that you can do in this game that involves like I need to get into this hotel room, for example. There are many, many ways of doing that. I was streaming this game a bunch and there's one section early on that is like the first mission that all the z trainees need to go on and it takes place at a chess grand Master tournament that's like In this beautiful castle. It's such a fucking James Bond set. such a great place to set a James Bond story. And there's a moment where like it's clear that somebody is trying to sabotage the event. You don't know to what degree are they terrorists? Are they not? Is it like, you know, a counter spy trying to so discourord? like what you don't know what's going on. You just know what room in the hotel that they're in And while I was streaming, I found a way into the hotel room and a lot of people in chat were like, I did not see any of that. I did this this and this or I did this this and this. And there were like three or four other options of ways to get into that hotel room, which is very cool. That's exactly the kind of stuff you want and that's exactly the kind of thing that makes this team owning this property completely work and I think sells it in my favor. The other thing and this is kind of my bigger picture thought about it is it even glosses up the unchartedness of it in a way that feels fresh and doesn't feel derivative at all. There are some moments, obviously where you're like shimmying across a ledge and it gives et cetera, et cetera. Like that stuff still happens. don' get me wrong. And even some of the shootout sequences are like ripped from uncharted where they're just like throwing tons of, you know bad guys and masks at you and you just need to like shoot them as much as you can. There is some fun stuff in those sequences where like the combat in this game is completely bizarre in like a very fun James Bondie way where almost like halo where you would like pick up a weapon and you have like ten shots in it and then you need to like drop it and pick up another gun. You're doing that in James Bond, but when you have an empty clip or like your gun is empty of ammunition, you could just chuck it at a guy and like Hit him in the face and then run up and like punch him a couple of times and knock him out. Stuff like that is really fun and feels very James Bond. But you know those moments where they're overloading you with enemies, I'm like, this is uncharted one. Like I did this in two thousand seven in the jungle in Uncharted and I'm still doing this now. But in the earlier sections of the game, specifically the ble z training montage, I think for me Is pound for pound like the most exciting method of storytelling I've seen from a AAA game trying to go after this style of cinematic storytelling, probably ever, maybe s like the maybe the Last of Us Part two is like kind of what I would compare it to in terms of like the ambition. becausecause they pull this magic trick off, which I think is incredible, where they try to do the like Indiana Jones or James Bond style like world navigation, like you're traveling all over the world kind of cutscenes and cinematic moments, like when Money Penny is like giving you a mission briefing on'm like, we need to go to Malta to do this, this and this. You know, she's showing you a big screen that's showing all these different images and then they'll zoom into one of those images and ang You're immediatelyadated into that level and you're playing the game. When you're doing the Doublez training sequence, it is literally a montage and not a cinematic montage, but a gameplay montage where like there will be a moment of like James needs to be doing pushups. So you're pressing A to do pushups one at a time and they're count like you have to do two hundred pushups. Okay, so you're doing one, two, three, four, five, immmediately smash cut to Run and catch this flag, donon't get seen by any of the operatives. imediately smash cut back to doing push upps. immmediately smash cut to weapons training where you're like you need to get headshots on all these different targets, smash back to push upps. I've never seen anyone do that before. Yeah, I was like the only comparison based on your description is Warriorware, which is so funny that that's like secretly the way to do a playable montage is. And also I mean, like Warriorware We talked about this a lot, actually, and I think the Game Boy addvance episode about Warriorware, but like that game is a miracle for player ability to parse what you need to be doing. Yeah the game obviously is like needing to figure that out. But the fact that you can in the three seconds they give you to do every single micro game is really impressive. Yeah, I just played incredible Crisis for has one episode Which is like sort of the proto Warriorware game. Yes. It's really funny and it's a good time, but there are so many games that are like weirdly difficult and impossible to understand until you've lost once or twice. Yeah. And like it really highlights how good Warriorware is at exactly you're describing exxactly what you're describing. Yeah. I think thing is so smart about the montage sequence in this game is they are almost like coming into it with the expectation that you've played a lot of other games like this and know exactly how to maneuver through the world. Like you know exactly, you know when a QTE shows up, you know what to do. when they put a gun in your hand, you know how to aim and fire without needing to be taught. And it is the tutorial of the game, like there are button prompts that are showing up on screen. You likely, if you've played a lot of video games, especially if you are over an hour into listening to this episode of this video game podcast, already know how to do all the things that it's going to ask you to do And I just found it so exciting. And I kept having moments like while I was streaming where I just needed to pause the game and just like talk out loud about how almost like fulfilling it was from a joy perspective to be surprised and excited about a AAA game like this. Like It's been a long time. know, I've played a lot of triAA games that I' found exciting recently, but I think in particular, it's been a long time since I played one going so hard after this style of storytelling that I was like dumbfounded by, where I was like, this team is firing at all cylinders, taking huge chances and they're all paying off. That is really exciting. and that that's the thing that you and I talk about a lot when we talk about AAA games. Like it's what we're always looking for. and it's like kind of the best case scenario is, I think, what we're seeing in zero zero seven. Yeah, I think the last time I thoughtelt that about a AAA game in this style was probably the first Spider Man game, honestly. Yeah, yeah. Maybe one or two since then. I would have to look at like a list of what's come out over the last six years, but ye yeah, there have been plenty of AApleA games that I've really enjoyed. Maybe the first God of War as well because I played that later. Yeah. But you know it reminds me a lot Once again, our friends Adam and Dom at Iye of the Duck, they have, you know, they're very much extremely critical about the current state of Hollywood and like the form a lot of blockbusters currently take. And it's because they have a lot of reverence for like the era of blockbuster where like it was exciting when something like Jaws came out and like redefined what a blockbuster could be or like You know, like there ideally can be a place for a blockbuster and that blockbuster is not a like calculated commercial success that doesn't really defy anyone's expectations or risk anything. Yeah, but is actually like, oh, this is a new thing. You know, this is a new thing that is now kind of changing or evolving like the sort of expectation of a movie like this or a game like this. And it sounds like Dou z seven is kind of getting closer to that style of blockbuster. Yeah, that's definitely how I feel about it. I think, you know, like the Dune movies, I feel like are a good analog where I remember sitting in the theater being like, this is going to be this generation's Star Wars. You know, everyone's always talking about like what is that going to be? And feel You know, our version of that, I think for our generation you know, I guess it technically still is Dune, but I feel like it was Lord of the Rings. L when Lord of the Rings came That was that moment where it was like, oh my God, like this is a thing that basically never happens under the under the studio structure. And it's a miracle that it happened this time and you just need to enjoy it while it's happening. And even if you look at where the Lord of the Rings movies have gone since then and where it sounds like they will be going with like this Galum movie coming out, like The MCUification of everything really I think is that's really what it is. Even getting to Lord of the Rings. But Dune right now feels like one of those situations where it's like Denevil Nuve is like he's basically in complete creative control and he's making it work. And that's exciting. And that's what this feels like to me. Like I'm hoping, you know, it'll probably take a long time before we get another one of these, but I'm really hoping that it like does well enough that we do get another one of these. becauseuse I'm already, I'm over halfway into the game. I think there's ten missions. I'm on six or seven already. I'm already like I want to not only replay this game But I'm already excited about whatever comes next. Like halfway into this game, I just want more of it and more of it than I know is already here. One of the things that they do, which is really smart, and I imagine they will continue updating it over time is one of the great things about the Hitman games was, especially when you got into the world of assassination stuff, it was kind of like a live cversification of Hitman where once you had the game, they would just kind of update it with new missions where they would like Move targets around in levels that you've already done or like change the levels a little bit here and there. and they would give you challenges, I think, like every other day or every week or something like that. And it allowed people who really liked those games and enjoyed the systems that play in those games to continue engaging with them and keep challenging themselves over and over again, basically for years and years and years. It was a really smart idea They've included something like that in this game that are like training simulations that you can do at MI six headquarters. that's like in the m once you unlock, it takes a while to unlock it. But once you unlock it, it's like a separate section in the main menu. It's called Tactical simulations. And they got like Gemma Chan to be the face of this, who' like very famous actor. She is like the person who is basically giving you all these options for tactical simulations. and there are a couple of them in the game right now I imagine there will be a lot of them going forward. This seems like the most obvious thing to just like tack onto the game to keep it updated until however long it takes to make a second one. Plot wise and James Bond wise, I also think like the writing is killer. You could have your qualms about this version of James. I think in particular, like this take is a lot more, I would say Altruistic in a I want to save everybody a little bit like I would say like green kind of perspective. L He's visibly younger. like he's twenty. Yeah, so he's like twenty years younger than most Bonds. Yes already. whichich is interesting because like that comes through in his naivety frequently like His, I want to save everybody. I want to make sure nobody dies. like that is not a thing we have seen very often in James. like obviously he's trying to save the world every time, but even in kind of that's in the macro in like every James Bond story you've ever seen. But these are like micro moments where he's almost doing the Superman thing of like, I want to make sure that nobody gets hurt under my watch, which also I think is a valid take on James Bond and throws him into situations where like he is wildly out of his depth because he totally misjudged the situation, which I think really works. I am I would say overall positive about this take and this actor's take on Bond. I think he doesn does also yeah, I'd rather have this conversation of like, is this an interesting version of Bond than Is this an accurate recreation of a bond we already know? I totally agree. I think their decision to just make a new bond was a really smart one. Yeah. because I think, you know, I mentioned like Marvel Spiderm Man being like one of my favorite AAA games in recent years. And it's sad to me, independent of how the games are, but like it's less interesting to me that now Insomniac is just like the Marvel team You know and like, you know, whether or not the Wolverine game is good. it just like that wasn't what was exciting to me about that game. likeike making him look like Tom Holland in the sequels and like, you know, I really enjoyed Miles Moralis. I'm sure I would enjoy Spider Man too. But I think, you know, the danger of working with like established IP is like, okay, you are now the James Bond team and you have to make from Russia with love the game and you know, recreate Sean Connery and resurrect him from the grave. And like, you know, it's like that's the nightmare version of this. I think the cooler version is like, yeah, I have no problem with IP continuing if it's a new take on it, you know? And like I think that first Spider Man game was a fresh It wasn't like a wildly like It was in the realm of what you expect from Peter Parker, but it was a really good Spider Man story about like a slightly older Peter Parker that would had been doing this for a while. I stand by my feeling that that is the best iteration of Peter Parker I've seen. I really liked it. Yeah. That Spiderverse are of my favorite Sideran stories. Yeah. I was really impressed by what Insomniac did with like the lore of Spider Man and then it became clear I think as the expansions to that game came out that they got like further and further away from that idea. Yeah. I think I think, you know, obviously there's always the push and pull between Peter Parker and Spider Man and like how much time he needs to give each of those halves of his life. And are they even halves of his life? I think it's a big question, but having him like working at the feeast program and the ways in which he handles The Rogues Gallery, I think like all speak to me or all say to me that like the team that wrote that game had a very nuanced and like very, I think, interesting understanding of the Peter Parker Spider Man Mythos that I've said many times on the show and I've tried making this video many times and the script always goes nowhere, but like I think Spider Man too throws all that goodwill out the window basically immediately when it tries to be a bigger and better sequel It does disservice to the characterization of Peter Parker. But I do think the thing that made it exciting, I think you're totally right, that first game was like a new fresh take on Peter Parker that was taking a lot of ideas that were from the comics and from the movies and from all the media that you recognize, but kind of shuffling it around and finding a unique vision for it. And I think even the fact that he like looked a little weird was helpful in that game is I think why the facial reconstruction surgery that they gave him to turn him into Tom Holland kind of rub some of that the wrong way. because yeah, it's like that first game it's like it's he's very clearly like at least thirty one. You know, he's like a little older. He's been doing this for maybe too long. It's like almost embarrassing that he's still Spider Man. Like there's a piece of it that's like, oh, you're still doing this. Right. And yeah When he's swinging around, he's like, I put this backack here in high school. Isn't that so funny? Yeah. And like even even his role as a mentor, which I really like those scenes. I like that he's like passing the baton to Miles in the Miles expansion. But the fact that he looks like Tom Holland, its so fucking weird. And it's like so obviously not a choice that I imagine any of the writers wanted. Like it was obviously like Disy being like, you've got to do this for cross promotion. likeike he the audience can't fathom a different person being Spider Man. It has to be Tom. whichich is I think I think what works so well about this version of James Bond is like I'll be h on, I mean, he looks a little bit like Tom Holland, but he's a real That's the Iidy is. He he does look he looks like if Tom there was a gradient between Tom and Nathan Drake, he's like right the T turns out it's just a real guy's face. like that's just what he looks like the act looks like some guy. But even at the beginning of the game, like the first mission you do before you're part of MI six or anything, you are like in I think it like an SAS, notot even SSA I don't even think you're part of SAS. You're just in like the Royal Air Force and you like crash onto this beach and need to escape without getting seen and like maybe sabotage some enemy stuff along the way. And he gets like a huge gash on his face that like turns into a scar that makes it, whichich I think is like a really interesting defining character trait for James Bond. and I was talking about this on stream. like I'm so torn, even just in the visual identity of this version of James, I'm so fascinated by the idea that a spy who needs to blend in everywhere has like a very defining scar on his face. Yeah that's that's an interesting choice to make. And I'm curious to see if they go anywhere with it in the future All of that said, like I think the plot beats that this game follows and the way that they dole out all the different kinds of gameplay, whether it be the uncharted moments or the kind of scripted like level set piece sequences or the kind of hitman world of assassination style, like you're just in this chess tournament, figure it out. You need to find a way to get in, you need to find a way to figure out who is sabotaging this place. You need to not be seen by the other people in the AO missions who think that you're just hanging out in the parking lot and you're obviously because you're James Bond and you're this new altruistic version of James Bond. He's like, I smell something wrong. I'm going to go investigate it myself even at the behest of everybody telling me not to. So you need to be avoiding everybody simultaneously while also like pretending to be part of hotel service and staff and also somebody who was invited and all this other stuff The interplay between all those different kinds of game works really well. I do think the balance is a bit off. There is a sequence, like a whole like basically two chapters that takes place in this in the middle of the desert, there's like a giant city built out of cargo containers and crashed cargo ships that is being ruled over by Lenny Kravitz Which is a fascinating decision I remember that cutscene at some it must have been like of the summer games. did I think was summer games fest. they did it we announce that Lenny Cravis was like one of the villains of the game. Yes. I forgot about that. That whole sequence, I will say, basically amounts to nothing from a plot perspective that couldn't have been handled in like one cutscene, but it does take like two or three hours to get through the whole thing. And its there's fun stuff to be had in there. It almost plays like the Chrono Tgger Festival sequence where like there's just I wasn't expecting that. There's just a lot to do. L you can go and mess around with a lot of different stuff Yeah. And I would say it has less impact on the plot what you're doing than it does in Chrono Tggers Festival sequ Yeah. Everybody's talking about that everybody's saying James Bon or DoubleS seven firstirst Late is just like Rrona Trigg Anyway, the sequence is still fun. There's like good stuff to be done in there. It just feels like that's where the balance is kind of off. And I've seen a lot of people say that the game, even though it's only like twenty to twenty four hours, like max feels a little bit dragged out. And I think that's why is because like as great as the chess sequence is and that whole level, when you do it again in this cargo ship city It doesn't feel as good. There's a lot of stuff to do and there's a lot of cool discoveries to be found. but at that point the plot is so interesting. you just kind of want it to keep going. You don't want to be like milling around in this kind of open zone explorative area where you're just like looking for secrets. Like that's not lesson from uncharted weirdly, as much as like the blueprint is still used Yeah I feel like uncharted one specifically uncharted two and three, I think are like the perfect length for this kind of game. Yeah. you know, where like I think uncharted four, as much as that's probably the best one, it does feel a little bloated in the latter half when it starts to become more of an open zone kind of game. I agree with you. But I think they they like nail the characterization of all of these people. I think like I love this version of Money Penny. This M is awesome. Yeah, I've heard great things about this M M M is like, I think she's only been on the job for like less than a year somewhere in that vicinity. It's like less than twelve months. She was like everybody's last pick for M because she was the safest pick for M. So she has a lot basically riding on proving herself. I think this game has really interesting stuff to say about like AI, believe it or not. It's kind of like the most recent recent Mission Imossible movies where there's like a big AI subplot U whichich I'm sure will be, you know, I'm guessing surprisingly anti AI considering this franchise is owned by Amazon. Yeah, that's also the vibe of Mina too, weirdly. So like I'm guessing the these reactors are like data center adjacent technology It's got to be someere in the earth. Yeah. But I am very I love this version of Q. I just think they've done a good job of kind of reinterpreting the entire James Bond kind of lore And taking this time period of Bond is it set? It's set right now. Oh, it's Okay, it's modern setting. It's modern. Yeah, it's kind of fun. So it's modern, but it's obviously like he's younger and simultaneously, a lot of the lore of James Bond, not lore, but I guess like there are a lot of references to previous James Bond things. Like when you're in Q lab and you're walking around, like it's a big ab or there's different sections for all these different things, wearables, cars, drones, whatever, hacking equipment, like all these different things. When you're walking around, you can like overhear all the scientists talking about the things that they're working on. and some of them will be like, oh, I found this old weird aluminum jet pack, which is like from Moonreaker, you know, like stuff like that like is all over the place. The car that Bond drives in Casino Royale shows up during the zero zero seven or during the O training sequence, like there are a lot of fun ideas poking back at the past and history of Bond, but it is also, I think, in the best way, like not beholden to that stuff. It's just doing it for like fan service reasons, which there's a version of this game where that feels overwrought and feels like they're doing it just for Almost, you know, MCU moments to be like, Oh, I know what that is. I saw that. Isn't that so cool? Stinky the Hutttss all grown up now and he's jacked. It's like seriously. But I think it's done more tastefully in this game. Like I never really had a moment where I recognized a reference to an old James Bond thing and was like, I get it. it's like alarming when that's fun at this point. You know, where it's like we're so drowned in And remember this, remember this that it's just like, oh, it's nice when that's actually like a fun instinct. Yes. becausecause it's not relying like there's so many reboots, especially like, you know, yeah, we keep mentioning the MCU where it's like, it's not a fun easaster egg. It's like literally the plot is like, oh my Godd, he's back. You know like Yeah It's just it's just exhausting at a certain point. Yeah. That was when I bailed from the Star Wars TV shows was when Book of Boba Fet came out and I was like, I definitely don't need this. know this is my off ramp for being a fan of Star Wars, I think, unfortunately. I haven't seen Grou, but I did see that clip that was going around where Rote to the Hut's like, I'm not my dad. I'm not gonna to fight to prove that I'm not my dad. It's like this is written in a way that feels like it knows people are playing Pocket Bomber Man and not fully watching it And is maybe AI generated. Yeah. I've not seen that movie. I recommend watching that clip. It's like the ultimate like either Jeremy Allen White like was so depressed at what he was in that he gave it nothing or it's actually AI. Yeah. it's like one of the least enthusiastic vocal performances I've ever heard. And it being like a weird slug going like just first of all, seeing a hutt speaking is weird. Yeah, the idea of a ripped hut is like a rippedut going like, I'm not my dad. I'm going to w to fight to prove that I'm not my dad. very I'll send it to once we're done.lease do. All of this said, I'm enjoying this game a lot. I think it's really something remarkably specialiven all the ways it could have gone wrong. I don't know. I just based on the hitman games, I had a lot of faith that this team was going to get it right. And I always saw that if they didn't get it right, it would probably because of like outside influence from Amazon And the ownership of the IP. Like that was always my concern wasas that be the reason that this doesn't work well I forgot Amazon. did they just like publish it? Like what was Amazon's involvement here? They don't know I don't know what I guess they own MGM studio and that's it's just like Amazon Yeah They've now gotten the entire rights to James Bond from the broccoli family is who owned it. Right Yes They have no creative input over the franchise anymore. It's all Amazon now, which you know o. maybe spells doom in some ways, but in this case has worked out. They seem like Amazon for as evil of a company as they are. And this is not me being like I'll give credit to Amazon, but like with the IP they've acquired, they seem weirdly hands off. I don't get the sense they're like Micromanaging like rings of power, for example, even though that show is kind of like I think if they were micromanaging rings of power, it wouldn't be the most expensive television show ever made. R? Yeahactlyically. it feels like they have like infinite money. They're just like we want to own everything. and everything will just be Amazon. The thing is like most bas I' say most. I think every single video game they've tried to launch that wasn't this one has comp completely fallen on its face. This is the first time it's gone remarkably okay. And I think that's probably more due to IOI than it is to Amazon. Yeah. But I do think that that is where the influence always, I think worried me about where this game could go. And I remember that first announcement being like, oh, that's just uncharted. Yeah and other Amazon games have been like, we're going to spend a like frightening amount of money to just make Black Desert online. You know, It's like I really think like it doesn't go further from Jeff than like I have all the money, so we're just gonna to spend the most money and that will make the best thing, right? Right. And it's like, no. A actually there should be some amount of imagination and soul in this, Jeff. Yeah. I know you're not familiar with either thing, I think I think shit. I think there's so much of that in in first lightight. I think I think like it does feel like, I don't know, it like I know it almost sounds like contrived, but I mean it feels like they care a lot about getting it right and they did. It feels like when Insomniac did Spiderm Man in twenty eighteen, like it feels like on that level of not only do we understand This cannon that we're pulling from, but we understand it so well that we can have a unique take on it that like feels good that you would want to hang out in. And that's that's really exciting. I'm excited to play a lot more of it. I mean, there's so much more stuff to talk about in this game, but I do want to finish it and I want to I want to see it through. You definitely sold me on it. I was like most likely going to check this out before the year ended, but now I'm going to prioritize it. Here's the thing that I will say to you I have played this on two devices. O on my PC, which is like, as Ive mentioned What the steam machine is supposed to be, it's like equivalent to those specs. and it looks great and runs really well. I also played this just to test it out for a couple missions in some like heavier gameplay sections. like in the desert with the big shootout, I was like, let me try this. I played it on my mini PC that's out in my living room, which I usually use for like smaller games. that is like a little bit, just a little bit more powerful than the Steam deck. And it also looked amazing and ran really well And I'm wondering, it might look and run pretty well in the steam deck. I haven't checked to see what that's like. I would give it a shot, but if it doesn't, if you're like, I'm not very happy with this, get it on PS five because this game looks gorgeous. This is one that I think like, I mean, the trailer shows off so many beautiful locations that I think I just want to enjoy that as much as possible. Yeah. Like Pragmata' is a game where I don't really mind the visual trade offff because I think it's fun handheld, like the hacking and stuff And just the loop of it feels weirdly like a handheld game to me. you, where you're like doing these kind of bite size missions and going back to this hub area. This I wan to fully enjoy the TV I spent too much money on, you, So I'll probably get on PS five. Yeah. I would yeah, I think I would recommend that. You'll have a good time with it. This is such a nitpicky thing and iss not even worth bringing up, but I'm going to becausecause it's the opposite of Don't Judge a Book by its cover. Like I was actually gonna install this on because it's ouream library. Yeah. And I went by and just the image of like Bond in like a gap jacket in like a bunch of beige light. like this is so boring. Like why is this the cover? first light, Stehven. I know, but like it's for how Vibrant and good the game looks? Yeah. The cover is like the most bland thing. L why is this the cover? Yeah. Well, yeah, I think the thing that's confusing about it is like he is not because this is his first outing, he's not like recognizable as James Bond. Yeah, he's just like a guy in beige light. Im like this is like weirdly like activating nap mode in my head Yeah I mayaybe that's the point that he can blend in. we're asleep. Oh maybe. I think you will find that the game visually is pretty striking. The first Oh section before you get brought into MI six, the very first section of the game takes place, I think in Iceland, like in like a kind of evil military base that is giving shades of like death strandingool It is totally gorgeous. That desert sequence I'm talking about is great. obbviously the like chest sequence. I think the thing that they get really right and the moments where I keep going like, oh, hell yeah, brother are the moments where they have It's just these amazing things that feel like they should be in a James Bond movie that you get to play through. I talked about the chess sequence in general, just like as a kind of high level place to set a James Bond level. But there's one sequence the in the shipping container city where you are in a bidding war with a bunch of other like Naird do Wells and I think government officials who are like there secretly bid on a drone and you're not allowed to use money. You need to use like other things as your bidding. So like one person is like, I can erase you from, you know, the FBI's most wantanted list. L that kind of stuff. Like that's my form of payment for this. That's cool. But the catch is that everyone is hooked up to a lie detector cool. So everyone needs to say what they'll bid and then it checks to make sure that they can actually provide that thing. And then you as boond are also hooked up to it and like need to lie and kind of fig your way through the things that you as an MI six agent can give to these criminals. It's sick. And that bit in particular, I was like grinning from ear to ear because I was like This would be Rad in a James Bond movie. Like if you just watch this in a movie this week, right, the fact that I get to play through it, it just feels so inventive and you just keep having these moments. I'm kind of talking in circles. I'll just finish with the way that I started, which is like, this is exactly the kind of stuff that I want from AAA. When you're throwing this much fucking money at a project, these are the kinds of chances I want people to be taking. Like that montage sequence, we will see other people rip that off and do that in the future because it feels so inventive and so obvious. It's one of those ideas that's like, as soon as you see it, and as soon as you understand that this generation of consoles brought about this idea where things can load instantly without needing to see loading screens in between them. Of course, you make a montage sequence that's playable T advantage of that. Yeah. And then you know, stuff like the chess sequence where like as you're walking around the balcony, there are like one hundred fifty probably way more than that, peopleople sitting around in this giant castle watching this chess tournament happen in real time with all the other people mingling around in the party simultaneously. It's like the density of people And places you can go and the amount of stuff that's loaded in on the screen at one time, like it just feels like they're pushing everything as far as they possibly can and being extremely ambitious. And I love that and I reward that and it feels really good in a way that I was hoping for, but am almost never expecting from AAA outside of like FrumSft. Right yeah. That sounds great. I can't wait to play this. Yeah I'm even more annoyed by the cover Given how cool the game is I'm not gonna drop this. I think what should you should install it on steam just so you can go into the like managed game and you can swap out all the I'm going take a picture of myself just like asleep and put some beige light over and that would be more interesting. I think I have this outfit. It's not even a cool outfit. think I think the cover art for this episode needs to just be like a stick figure on beige I' just I'm just gonna draw like a stick figure hold. like one of those weird t shirts from the two thousands they used to say like property of were proroperty of an I six, ye. Well, that's the title. That's the longest title we've ever had. Sometimes it's better to think it through. Yeah. That's what James always says. Yeah. I'm really look this looks great. I can't wait to play it. Me too. I can't wait to finish it. Is this our first like big of the games we've played and talked about? Is this like the first big AAA one? Resident Evil counts, I think. Oh, yeah, of course. and Pragmata too, I guess. Yeah, yeah, ye What else? Yeah marathon No, yeah, that's we open this in like it's both. twenty twenty six is both in MD and AAA here. So I would count Lego Batman, which by the way, I've been playing more of. Yeah. That game's really good. Pretty fun. That game's really good. like I'm past the Nolan verse version of Batman, which is fun. Oh that's So did his voice change? No, Oh yeah I think it will later is my guess. think I think they will get to a point where it does. But see this is a good cover. Look at the Lego Batman cover. He's got Gotham behind him. He's got this like lit silhouette and then there's like kind of a city beneath him as well. cool. It is cool. Striking. Yeah you can see poison Iivy is like Iivy growing around GCPD, Wayne Tower You know what's funny? There is also a Deluxe edition upgrade. Oh, that is him on. As Be. you're right Yeah that looks worse. What's with the beige? That's just where we E used to be teal and orange, rememember? it's all beige. Beige era Yeah. All right. Oh wow, that actually reminds me of one of the things I wanted to say about this rendition of James. and this is the last thing I'll say about this game. thenen we can close out the episode. But I think this version of James who is a little bit more naive and a little bit more L optimistic and hopeful and feels like he can help everybody is kind of exactly what I personally needed post Daniel Craig, who is like much more dour and much more action oriented. And I think in general, I like his version of Bond very much, but I do think that version of Bond is like significantly sadder because it is encapsulating more of like What this person would actually be like because it's you know two thousand six, I think is when Casino Rale came out Yeah And like, baby, we were in the Nolan verse Batman to say like that was the whole like even thinking about other pop culture like shows and movies like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Mad Men, like if it was fantasy, it was there was an appetite for the reality underneath the fantasy. Yes. And I think now there's more of an appetite for like, okay, but bring back some of the fun. We everything. Yeah. we don't need everything to be real and coffee can. Yeah. So I think you know, beige is the halfway point, but need a more vibrant palette. Wow and the coffee filter. Thanks so much for listening everybody Always a pleasure to record into the Aher a low key video game podcast for you, the dear listeners. The show abruptly ended midway through twenty twenty six when Stehven and Brendon had a disagreent over pallets. Over beige. They couldn't stop arguing about Beige. The irony of Pokemon beginning in Pallet Town and the show ending in it, Bom Okay. Thank you for listening into the cast this feels like I shouldn't wrap up. L I feel like I'veb I've brought enough chaos to this final ad that's weird being like, and if you want to help us grow, you can say hey to a friend. But no, thank you for listening. Into the castleline is our website. If you'd like the show the best way to help it grow is to share with a friend, you can also rate and review us on your podcast app of choice You can support us directly on patreon dot com slash into the cast. We're entering the summer. I feel like there's going to be a lot of I would anticipate between this episode and next episode, there will probably be a lot of really huge announcements. Yeah, we're recording this on day one of Summer Gaines Fest. Yeah. so I feel like we're in I'm wondering how quickly Excuse me. I'm woing how quickly we'll know the release date for fire emboom, which is my biggest thing. Yeah. acccording to Jeff Grub, we're getting that Nintendo direct, I think probably early next week. was was his guess. That's exciting. is excited There might be a surprise leakage depending on what deepending on what happens. Yeah, We do have a Playtation state to play which will have happened by the time this episode is out. That's tomorrow night for you and I, Stephven And then Summer Games Fest, I think is on Friday. And I will be on a flight, I think, to California, not for Summer Games Fest while that's happening. So I'll probably watch it. But at least Summer Games Fest is what it is. L it is exactly what it's marketing itself as. Yeah. Whereas the Game Awards is like saying it's the Oscars, but it's also just trailers. Yeah. I think we talked about this during the last Game Awards season, but I think my take generally speaking is that they should just call that winter Games Fest. Right. and just maybe even have a separate event for the awards. Yeah want if they actually want to do that. Yeah. Not to discredit anybody who wins like I'm excited for. It's the same thing with the Oscars where it's like The event itself, you can be deeply critical of, but it's still cool to see certain people win, you know. That's how I feel. But as we always say, like the Oscars isn't showing trailers for movies that are going to come out next year. And that's notange. That's the reason people tune into the Game Awards, which I think you're right. there's something a little bit cleaner and a little bit more, I think, on the nose and understanding of its own place in the culture about Summer Games Fest. And also I will say this, like even just looking at the list of all the other games that are happening or all the other events that are happening around Summer Games Fest, like they're doing a good job highlighting a bunch of other smaller projects this year, which I think is great. That' cool. E just looking at this week, like there is the mix summer Game showowcase, a midsummer night S scream, which is like all horror games. That's such a good name. It's a great name. Black Voices in Gaming, Latin American game showcase, Women led games, acccessibility showcase U Obviously the Day of the Dvs from Yeah yeah, Double findind that whole crew, the Southeast Asian game showowcase. like there's a lot of other great stuff happening That's all surrounding suummer Gamamees Fest this year, which I think is really the direction that I would like to see this going is, you know, this is not just event, but like we're using our platform to highlight a bunch of other stuff, which is cool. Yeah, absolutely. So looking forward to that yeah That's it for now. I guess we'll see you all next week. But thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next time. Bye everyone. takeake care yourselves. Bye bye.