Closing Thoughts and Future Episodes

to into the Aher It's a L kee video game podcast. My name, as always is Brandon Bigley. My name is Stephven Hogger. We have games to talk about today, folks. Yes. Games. This is also, I just want to mention, this is coming out the week of Elliot. Yeah, Elliot, I think comes out tomorrow like now. L if you're listening to this, this is confusing You this episode, the day it comes out, Elliot will be coming out tomorrow. Yes, june eighteenth. Yeah. So three days for us. Are arere you going to play it on Steam deeck or Switch? I think Steam Deck because that's where I play the demo. I would like to continue where I left off. Yes because it's a sizeable demo and I'm most curious to see how it Develops from there. I'm still really excited. I think I think my Elliot mania went down like one It was like off the scale and now I'm like a bit more measured and hoping that it's as good as I hope it is. But I think it will be at least a great time. I think whether or not it like is the sort of magnum opus for Tam Masano, like I don't want to put that pressure on it. Yeah. Even though we've been chanting Elliot summer for months. I'm still pretty high on it. I like the demo seemingly more than a lot of people based on a lot of the impressions that I read and a lot of the stuff that I read. I think one thing that is a little bit concerning to me though is we're recording this on Monday, june fifteenth, as we said, The game comes out in three days our time. I thought that the review embargo would have lifted today. The fact that it didn't is a little suspect to me. Yeah, I feel like that's less and less of an issue though. I feel like this happens a lot and then the reviews are good. I don't know if it's as clean cut as like you don't hear about it and therefore it's like they're not confident in it. sometometimes it wraps the other way and it becomes a problem z zero seven first light, that review embargo, I think lifted the day before the game came out, which was a bizarre thing to do. They also gave press code for it like before that weekend. So press only had three days to play that whole game, which is like no one should do that. And then obviously that game reviewed very well. I mean, it's an extremely fantastic video game. So who knows, maybe Elliot ends up itting but I'm excited about Ellliot. I'm still excited.id you finish the demo? Oh Yeah ye, I finished demo. and I'm going to probably play on Switch two for the same reasons you're going to play it on Steam Deck. Cool. Yeah, no, I think it's I think it's going to be a good time. Yeah. I I'm just I'm a little bit like yeah, I'm a little bit slight bit more on the fence on certain mean L like most of the dungeons. I just hope the dungeons get more and more interesting as it goes on. Yeah, I that's my's my thing about the demo is I feel or the second demo, I should say the one that is the actual beginning of the video game is that I feel like that demo being the beginning of the video game kind of undsells how interesting those mechanics can be and that first demo did a great job of showing how interesting those mechanics can be, which gives me hope for the future. No, that's a great point. I had forgotten that first demo and how that was why we were so excited in the first pMs. I will also say speaking of the Switch two This is I think, yeah, we're at a year of the Switch two at this point. Wow. It's been out for a year and we have a bunch of Switch two games to talk about today, which is fun. And the first one that we wanted to talk about is another demo. It is also a demo for Starfox Star Fox twenty twenty six. Starfox parentheses twenty twenty six. I'm gonna to give the floor to you first Yeah. It's a remake of Star Foxty four, but simply titled Star Fox. We've talked a lot about our feelings on this as an idea. like when it got that surprise direct, when I was in an airplane and I landed and turned my phone on and it was just like everyone's likear fox p us back. You missed your shot, Steve. My great reward. But yeah so I was generally like kind of intrigued and confused by this announcement because I think you and I have been and many people, I think, have been wondering where Starfox stood for Nintendo because they have no shortage of like, you know new series that have kind of been discarded. like there's kind of a graveyard of Nintendo IP that is bigger than you would guess because you probably don't know half the stuff that's there. It just sort of felt like it was in this weird purgatory where, okay, it's definitely like a big enough series that it'd be weird if they didn't do anything else. but it's also been ten years since the least liked game came out Right So it's just like And also I think anyone younger than a certain age doesn't really know Fox outside of their presence in Smash Bothers. and now the Galaxy movevie. And that's kind of who I think we assumed this game is for. It's definitely an attempt to be like, okay, we've set the stage for like wondering who Fox is for people that either never played the original games or too young have played them I just like miss them. So this is an attempt to really fully reboot the series by remaking the one kind of caveat free beloved Star Fox game for a new generation. and that's who I think it's for. I think it's like primarily for people who have never played Star Fox before or people that haven't played it in thirty years. And I don't want that to sound judgmental because it sounds like I'm like gatekeeping Startty four, I'm really not. I'm actually very happy for anyone who gets to play it for the first time. And I think what's interesting about this demo and my feelings on it is like I have very complex feelings for a generally pleasant hour. Like it's the most I've had like notes for something that is like pretty fun, but it also made me really try to put to words my feelings on remakes in general, and why some remakes I think are really exciting and cool and some I think are like unnecessary. And as much as I can try to pinpoint the like qualities of a remake I think is successful and interesting, I'm trying okay, so let me say what this is and then I think we can have that larger conversation about remake. Sounds good. What I've learned listening to myself all these years is I can tell my brain is throwing too much at me at once and I have troubble committing to one line of thought. anyway The Star Fox remake, the demo, gives you the prologue, which is the cutscene of James McLeod making the sacrifice to save Peppy. and that's the thing that we saw in the direct. It's weird that you don't play it. It is weird that you don't play it. And like I played this demo with the Joy Cons one in each hand, but the switch docked Because when I went to Jersey last, I left my pro controller there by accident. No. So I don't have any way of playing the switch Dot unless I just play them like play it like a W Yeah with a joy C each ch, which actually is great for Starfucks. It weirdly does feel like, oh, this kind of works. Do you have that little piece of plastic they give you that lets you slide them in? I do, but I also left that in Jersey. Ooh, brutal. So I literally can only do handheld or this weird I'm going to send you a five dollar piece of plastic you should buy. I already ordered a new controller. good. But I appreciate your generosity and the weird piece of plastic. But anyway, so I'm playing it like a Wii game and you had that opening scene with James McCloud and like he's gonna to make this last stand and you feel the Joy cons rumbling. And I was like, oh, this is kind of exciting And then it's just a cuts scene. And then it cuts to like a VR training mission that is like twenty minutes long. And I actually really enjoyed it. I think it's like maybe, you know, this also kind of cements my feeling that this is for a new audience because like truthfully, the controls to Starfuckx are not that complex that you need to spend that long teaching them, but I actually do think they do a good job like reintroducing you to the controls, but also using that as an opportunity to reintroduce the characters. And I also really liked it because this was like a fully new scene that this wasn't in at least as far as I can remember. I used to play Software sixty four pretty much every other year Like I played it a lot in high school. I mean, I played it a lot as a kid and then I would replay it a lot in high school and college and then it's been a while since I've played it last, but I know it pretty well and I don't think this was in the core game. I think the tutorial was kind of just in the first mission. I was gonna to say this is an era where tutorials weren't like a sure thing in video games because every game came with a manual that you would read beforehand Most games assumed that you had read the manual and at least internaliz some of it. So my recollection also of Star Fox sixty four is they just kind of throw you into it. I mean, that's the do a barrel roll. It's like your squad mates yell tutorial at you in the midst of war. It's trial by fire for F in the nineties. But yeah, I thought that this tutorial mission was kind of interesting. L it definitely was taking a little long Towards the end, I kind of picked up what they were doing. and it actually was like I really liked how it ended. When they introduced Falco, obviously he's like the hothead rival. Yeah. And at the end of the training mission, he's like, That's made this interesting. And he like turns off all the safety precautions and like floods the zone with en You go from the on rail Star Fox shooter to the like full open flight zone Yeah kind of style of gameplay. and then they flood it with enemies, which I really love. And it does it's a good bit of characterization. It also is a good bit of tutorialization for how you're going be flying in like the multiplayer matches later on when you get into that as well. And I just while I was streaming this, I was just thinking to myself, like this is just Goku and Vegeta in a way that I always want more of in any PC media. If Vegeta was like a total bro, that's kind of felo. like which I guess makes slippy Krillin, doesn't it?s like wet That's what I said, do. the exact same thing And his Pppy mess like not horny messter I was trying to I still haven't figured out who Peppy is. Yeah He's maybe He's not Yamcha. He's definitely notam. I think Yamcha is one of the first bosses who's like, you know, you'll never defeat A. Actually know, that's definitely we're not doing this. This is an anyy percent prompt. J just the eighty percent channel. We'll talk about this later The minute I say Racb is the conductor, like half her audience is like, I think I've had enough of this show. I think I've had my film. Yajiobi is Rob. I found this on the ship Sendic supplies. Here's a sensu bean, man Okay, so Like I said, I have a lot of thoughts about this. So I thought that was great. So basically that happens with Falco and then it cuts to the four of them, the core four, you know, slippy Falco, Fox, and Peppy, all with VR headsets in like a very kind of Guardians of the Galaxy living room on the ship. And I was like, this is so fun. actually The things I really like about this remake, one, I do think it's harder than it might sound to recreate the feeling of Star Fox sixty four and have it feel like fun and smooth by modern standard. Yes. as evidenced by literally every other Star Fox game not getting that. Yesactly. Even Star Fox Assault, which I think is like, you know, the other good one does feel kind of off even compared to playing on the N sixty four. I think this team did a great job like making it feel fun to play. And I think the character design is still hit or miss, but while you're playing it, I overall buy the look of the worlds more in the context of the game than like at Y Like I kind of stopp thinking about how wet slippy is like with how this world looks. And I will say the environments are stunning. Like the levels look incredible. It really is like a technical showcase for the Switch two. Also, this is not a series I normally think of the music. For all the other Nintendo series where like music is the first thing you think of like Zelda or Mario Starfox weirdly is the voice acting. Like the memories everyone has of these old games is like the barks, not the songs. And it made me hearing like the new orchestrations made me appreciate the original soundtrack even more because it sounds amazing. Like the demo is just the James prologue scene, the training VR mission, and then you do the asteroid field level So all this to say, I like the look of it overall. I like the way it feels to play. And I think my favorite thing about it, which I wasn't really expecting, and this is just based on the demo. so I might get sick of this in the full thing. But I like the expanded story stuff. I think it's fun to get like new moments with these characters, and I think they overall nail the tone. That was what I was most worried about is like I don't need a version of this that takes itself seriously I think they do a good job. like they retain the camp of it so far, at least in a way that I appreciate. So honestly, like all of it's working for me. the weirdest thing about it is just like getting to the level itself and it being exactly the same. It feels almost uncanny to have all of this new stuff built from the ground up And then you're playing not only through the same level, but like literally like the timing of it is exactly like the butterfly is coming out from behind the asteroid. And like anyone who has played this game as much as I have, like you have some of things like burned into your subconscious. And it's just so weird to me how one to one it is considering how like it just feels like when you play it, there's all this newew stuff built around the core of the game that has remained untouched. Yeah. And on one hand, I get that from a remake strategy and also considering this series every time they have taken a swing, it has not worked. Like as much as we can retroactively appreciate the weirder Star Fox games, they all failed to varying degrees. Star Fox Adventures sold well and reviewed pretty well, but like that was the turning point where people started like rooting against the series. whether that was deserved or not It started to happen, very much mirrored by the prequels in that way. So the prequels made a sh ton of money, but it also kind of alienated the fan base or divided it. Yes exactly. So like, I guess I just get bummed playing this where I'm like You really like you really, it feels not like we are so in love with the with the core gameplay that we thought we should keep it as is because there are some remakes where it's like, don't fuck with this. likeike the Shadow of the Closus remake. right. You don't want to change too much. But it's weird that so much has been changed except for the game And it feels like it doesn't feel like a confident move to me. It feels like it's terrified of doing what they've done before. so they're just sticking to what works. And it just makes me frustrated because I think that like there's a different version of this game that is exactly the same but has new levels that I would fully go to that for. You know? Like that's kind of my takeaways is likeike there's so much I would rather have just seen a new interpretation of this game rather than like expanded cutscenes with the same exact game. But what makes what challenges me on that observation is like, that I also think that the Shadow of the Closses remake is great and is like a great way to play that game. and that is largely not one to one, but like that is largely like a recreation of that game. Yeah, It's a visual glow up of what was already there on the PS two Yeah, I think that the trarails in the skky remake is excellent and that is kind of similar where it's like you get voice acted cutscenes and you get these fully through the environments. I mean, in that case the combat I was going to say, I feel like they that one takes a lot of a lot more liberties than this one does. Yeah. I think the difficult thing about this game to talk about Is that split between what is new and what is not? Whereas I think in most other remakes, it's a lot more obvious. you know, it's a lot more, I think easy to pitch people on what's new and what's not. And this one just saying like it is exactly the same game mechanically in moment to moment gameplay and in between those levels is like in between the part where you is where we've added new stuff is a little bit of a difficult pitch, I think, for people who have an affinity for or nostalgia for the original. I think that's that's the that's a little more difficult. Yes say because my feeling about it and I texted you this right when I was done playing it was like that was good because Star Fox sixty four was good. you know? Like I like the new stuff. I like the cuts. I'm with you The characterization here is great. I think the cutscenes work for me. I'm excited to see more. and if you we could talk about the rumors, but I think we maybe shouldn't talk about the rumors here. I'd like to separate it out a little bit, but like sure if the rumors are true that this is setting a foundation for a new Star Fox game by this team after this that's coming as soon as next year It makes sense that you would be laying all this narrative groundwork, But even removing that rumor from the situation, I feel like just giving us more of these characters is actually the thing people want. As you were saying, the thing that sticks in people's heads and even in my limited memory of playing Star Fox sixty four when it was out on the N sixty four, the thing that I also remembered was the character barks. L that's the stuff that really stuck with me. So getting more of those characters outside of the combat scenarios is a positive in my mind But even as somebody who like I didn't have an N sixty four, the extent of my Star Fox sixty four playing was like being invited to friends' houses and it would be like me and a bunch of people either just playing multiplayer or alternatively it would be like me and a friend and we're like, okay, we're gonna try to figure out every single solution here. And we would just play it over and over and over again. So even though I didn't have an N sixty four, I still have this pretty severe memory in my head of what's going on in Star Fox sixty four. And then obviously I played the three DS remake when that came out as well. S, which is a whole other can of worms we can get into if we want to. But point being, like when I got into that asteroid level, I also had that same moment with the butterflies poping from behind the asteroid was like, oh, I remember this. I remember this exactly, you know, doing like kind playaying the beats of that over and over again. I walk away from it, I think less pessimistic on like a creative level than you do, but I get where you're coming from in like a very visceral way. Like I think there's a very thin line between where I'm sitting and where you're sitting on this where I'm kind of giving the game the benefit of the doubt in that, as you said right at the top of the segment, it is for, I think, mainly either people who haven't played that game before. Yes. or I think to drill down even further into what you were saying, not only like people who haven't played this game in the past thirty years, but like people who don't care at all that it's just a remake that has better graphics. which I think To be blunt like outside of you and me and probably a lot of people who listen to the show, like that is going to be the prevailing sense of it. is like, oh, I'm excited that this is just Star Fox sixty four with Bet graphics. Like there are a lot of people who are going to like go to bat for that, love it and that's all they ever really wanted, especially if you've been following the Star Fox fandom over the years. As you said, like even adventure sold well and was It critically lauded And it was only basically because of like the advent of the internet and kind of the like beginning hurricane spiraling of negativity around Starfox that things started to go really south. And then Nintendo kind of didn't know what to do with the franchise because every time they tried something new, it was reviled. and every time they did something that was very similar to what Starfox sixty four was, which is ostensively what the fans wanted, it was also reviled Which then puts it in this kind of weird like unknowable box.'s like it's like Schrodinger's cat of a franchise where it's like it could be anything. and no matter what, the cat's going to be upset about it. And I think with this series in particular, I kind of get that fear of like, maybe we shouldn't, like maybe we try to do both where we a new imagination of it, but it is just what people have been begging us to do over and over again. So that's why like on one hand, this feels like an unbelievably safe game. Yes, Yes exactly. From a company that is like generally speaking, playing by their own rules and doing whatever they want and constantly surprising fans. And I think that's the thing that you and I are bristling at And on the other hand, this is maybe exactly the thing you need to do to bring Star Fox back to both win over the people who will be talking about it on the internet because they're old enough to like have accounts online and then post about things and then also bring in a new generation of fans. Yeah. And I think like the best case scenario for a game like this is that this does well enough to warrant a sequel. and then the sequel is The new Star Fox game in this style. Yes. I want that game more than this one. but I also would argue that, yes, I know there are many people who like, you know would be happy just getting what this is. but I also think that both audiences would be better served and on some level more excited If it was new. Yeah. This goes back to it being safe. What's interesting is like the other thing connected to this and I'm sure this is going to come up in this conversation is the looming Occarina of Time remake Yeah. And how much of this design philosophy is present in that game as well? Yeah, between last night, just for context, between last night and this morning, Nintendo accidentally on their website posted an update or just like updated the text on the Occarine of Time remake page that said, and I'll quote. The N sixty four classic reborn as a full remake for Nintendo Switch two experienceced Ocarineo of Time with stunning visuals, updated designs, and timeless gameplay, which then obviously made the rounds online as soon as I'd hit the internet Nintendo, as of this morning, has now deleted that from the website, which I also find interesting. Yeah, I don't want to dig too deeply into that, but it's just two words. it's just two words that give us pause from Yeah. But I think I think the combination of them deleting timeless gameplay, that specific word, and then also the approach in this remake Yeah makes me wonder, is the Occarina of Time remake literally the same game new graphics R whichich is obviously like I think, you know, we said this many times. you and I are more case by case with remix than I think most people. I think a lot of people that I really respect in the sort of games media space are like broadly speaking, pretty anti remake with some glowing exceptions. Yeah. I get the sort of critical response of like, hey, enough remix. why don't I think we are in a culture right now Between like endless legacy sequels in film and even just like the attempt at pushing AI and AI's inherent regurgitation of what has already been done. I get this like spiritual feeling of like, please anything new. Anything new Which is went why you see like you know, just the past couple of weeks in the box office having obsession and backrooms Yeah blowing up the box office and Mand Laorian N and Grgu had like eight seconds of being at number one before it completely bottomed out. Amazing. Yeah. know even if those movies are not like your thing, it's just cool to see them.. you know. YouTubers with shoestring budgets beating Disney, like fucking bums Is that your memoir Thank you so much for listening, everybody. BB. I don't think we're topping that for the rest of episode. Don't go D't go, I got another be for you I guess my thing is like when I say out loud, Ocarin of time but different graphics and same game Yeah, that makes me uninterested. But then I think about I did like that remake of Link's Awakening Yeah. That was basically that. Yeah With all this stuff, it's case by case. I also think it's important to note that like for me Remakes, remasters, and definitive editions all play a very different role. I think sometimes it's maybe, I don't w want to say dangerous, but like I do see those terms lumped together a conflict. And even sometimes games will be remakes and they'll call themselves remasters or vice versa. Yeah. Like Metroid Prime, the remaster of Metroid Prime Excellent. I think that's an incredible way of bringing that game forward. That is a game that I hadn't played before that is, you know, arguably harder to play on the gameCube. And that's I think similar to the Blue pointoint remakes in my opinion, that's a great way to like Dust it off a little bit and bring it forward in a way that like it will reintroduce that game to a new audience. And then ideally, the original is easy to access if they want to go back to it. I see remasters as a way to port something forward. I see definitive editions as a treat for sickos, and I see remakes as adaptations. ideeally. Yeah. That's kind of like what I expect when it's labeled as That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. Like later in this episode, we're going to be talking about Zenoblake Chronicles's definitive edition Nintendo Switch two version, which is like a shadow of a shadow of a remake and is also fucking awesome. And like I'm glad that I'm playing that version of it. I even did a little bit of reading online and it seems like Almost everybody says like there's really no reason to play the Wi version of that game unless you're like really nostalgic for it. Like you can just play the definitive edition. And sometimes that's important because like while I never want a game to be like replaced simply because it's old, I also think, you know you have to think about like, okay, how many people are gonna to dust off their Wii to play this or how many people are savvy enough to emulate this At a certain point, a game can also risk being forgotten. And this is maybe less a argument for why remakes and remases should exist and more an argument for just like a better way to preserve this stuff. I would go even a step further as saying this is one of the inherent blessings and curses of video games as a medium compared to all other pieces of media Right?. Like when you tell somebody to go like watch classic movies, that's a thing that they can definitely do on their Apple TV or Amazon Fire stick or whatever in the TV that they own right now. Yeah. right? Like a movie is just a video file that is being played somewhere on your television. And same thing with books and same thing with music, all that stuff is like easy to categorize is available to everybody, generally speaking in some way, shape or form. It does not, you don't need to jump through a bunch of hurdles. If you wanted to tell somebody to go play Xenob Blade Chronicles one, they would need to either, as you're saying, figure out a way of emulating that game on whatever device they already own or go buy literally a Nintendo Wi And find a copy of Xenoblay Chronicles and then play that game, which is also famously one of the most expensive Nintendo week games. whichich I think is that's just how video games work. Like that's just a problem with video games as a medium. And the way you solve that, I think, is when you get into the remakes, remasters, defeinitive Editions conversation in the first place Because it's not as easy as being like, go watch Citizen Cane, you know? Yeah. and even Ocarin of Time and Starfucks sixty four, right now, the only official way of getting them is through the N sixty four bundle on Nintendo Online, which like I like a lot of those bundles. I would make a case that the sixty four one is like the worst emulated version of it. They've improved it a lot, but it still has its issues Lust as an addendum to the thing I just said, and you and I have made this point so many times that I think we've stopped making this point, but we can make this point again here because it' relevant. we need to be holding these companies' feet to the fire more about doing more in this space. Like haaving the originals be available and porting them forward when possible should be a goal for video game preservation and also just like historical chonology of video games. one of the things that you and I love the most about doing this podcast is the fact that we get to look backwards as much as we're looking forwards. And that's only possible I think, because you and I are freaks about this stuff. Like We spend so much time figuring out like where is the best place to play this. Like what piece of hardware can I buy that will be the best way of playing this, etcetera, et cetera. Like We're doing the research for like each and every game so frequently And like I can't expect people to do that. and the second best thing is Nintendo being like, every week we're adding a Nintendo sixty four game, notot every six months maybe at a Nintendo direct, we've added Bubble Bobble sixty four. It was interesting to see like the difference in terms of like how in the weeds like you and I are our and our friends are versus like my friends who are for lack of a better word, normal people, where like fire reed and Laf green. o yeah come out on swwitch. And like immediately for anyone who's like in our orbit, the conversation becomes like, this is kind of weird. twenty bucks is maybe a little bit steep for this now, maybe if this was Coming out in twenty seventeen, sure But why isn't it included in the why is desbscription I alreadyction. It's just an emulated copy. This is also not coming out for preservation's sake, but because it's the anniversary of Green version. And Ergo, Pokemon, you know, the reason a lot of the modern games have suffered is because they're beholden to this multimedia flywheel and things have to come out to be commercials for the cards and the anime and the movies. And everyone else in my life, the thought did not go further than, oh, it's on Switch now. I can't wait to play it. Y. That was it. Yeah. And I'm not saying that's the correct response, but it's really worth like internalizing that when we talk about this stuff. Like that is like ninety percent of people like they probably made Frightening amounts of money. They probably could have charged forty dollars and it wouldn't have changed anything. And it's just I honestly think it's sad with Nintendo because they used to do this with the Wii and the Wii U and the three Dconds where like you could buy all of their older games for a pretty good price. I mean, I remember I bought Pokemon Crystal for like two dollars on the three D S. Yeah. That was how we did that, how we played that for that bonus. Yeah And I for if you listen to the early years of the show, I was like the like Paul Revere of the three D S E store. I'm like, take advantage of this while it's here. Yeah. Like these are this is the best way to play a lot of this older stuff. And then sure enough, it's now gone At least the Vita, you can like use weird prepaid credit cards to still get stuff. And you can also I mean, you can hack both very easily. So there's that too, of course. But again, it's like, while I appreciate that emulation is like the final guard when it comes to preservation, I don't think it should be fully reliant on emulation as well, especially Ideally, it wouldn't be the default, you know, L I'm a person who co hosts an entire fucking podcast about emulation and hardware emulators and stuff and even I would I would much rather like go directly to Nintendo's virtual console and be playing these games that way. Yeah. And like, you know, obviously that kind of leads into like arguments about piracy. And I feel like often you'll just see like piracy is actually good or piracy is bad. and it's like it's I don't even want to open that We go down that road. We've drifted so far away here, but think The high level piece of it is like this game, in particular, this game being Star Fox twenty twenty six, doesn't feel so different from just like throwing Star Fox sixty four in an emulator with like like a graphics mod in some ways until you get to the cutscenes, which are the new thing. and that's the thing you could probably just watch on YouTube hypothetically Even I will say even with that's a very cynical way of looking at this in my eyes. Even with that, I'm still like excited about it and we'll play it. And I think that that's like an exciting prospect because to me, and this is where I'm now snapping back into like person who hosts a video game podcast mode, like to me, this reads as the thing that is most likely to succeed in a business business sense that will lead to more Starfox. And like you, that's the thing I'm excited about. That's the thing I want. But getting back to your bit about Occaran of time, I' deeply concerned if that game is the same as this. Like the idea of an Ocarina of Time remake that is literally just the same game again, but has like c smooth smoother, more unreal Engine five graphics. like yes, that's not quite What I would want out of Vocarin of time. And I think the interesting thing and this is a circle that needs to be squared also is ironically the remakes of both of these games for the three Ds also, right? Like Star Fox sixty four three D, I think is a pretty good port of that game. But I think of that as just a remaster first and foremost. and that's kind of why I'm more accepting of it than what this is Which you know, claims to be new and then is not. And Occarine of Time three D similarly is kind of what I was just describing. L that really is Occarine of Time with like updated character models in terms of the polygons on display and some lightly tweaked gameplay like the water temple is a little bit un. Exactly. Lightly tweak gameplay, better textures, and then obviously the dual screen support that just like kind of makes a lot of things a lot easier in terms of inventory management and stuff. Like they utilize the hardware that game onto the three Ds in a way that I think made it more approachable to people and then also made it look a little bit better for the people of which there are many who bristle at going backwards in time graphically. Yeah. And like love I love graphical styles that are informed by limitations. Yes. you know, I think that's why so many, especially indie developers will be like, this is evoking And sixty four or Dream C or superintendent, whatever. And created the volumetric fog of the PS two for my horror game. Yeah. likeike mean of the Hollower, you know, showing like here's what you can do with a game Boy color style in twenty twenty six. Really cool. And I love that three D S remake. That's I've said it before. I'll say it again. that I think is the best way to play it. If their goal was just to bring Ocarina forward. I think like a definitive ition version of that three D S remake lightly touched up to run on swwitch. Yeah. I would actually be so much more excited about that. Yeah than what we fear this is. Yes. And I also think on a mechanical level, if your goal is to if this is for the same audience, if the Occarina time remake is also for This is for someone who hasn't played it since they were a kid or a kid who hasn't played it. I think that both of those audiences will be off putut by the mechanical style of the N sixty four version. Like that game was one of the first, not only the first three D elda, but like literally one of the first three D action games. Y. The reason it's so remarkable to play today For many reasons, I mean I think there's a really wonderful sense of atmosphere. There's a great story. You loved revisiting it and not having had like a childhood experience with it. Yeah For our bonus about it, which is one of my favorite bonuses we've done. The thing that makes like that Dcout dungeon, the first dungeon in the game, is so fucking cool because it is literally a tutorial for three D Yeah It It's not just like, here's how Zeldawors, three D. It's like, here's how three D can work for video games. Yes. And the thing we said a lot on that bonus is like it's amazing how much they got right so quickly in that game. And obviously things have changed so dramatically. Like there's a lot they get wrong in that game, but the way you move through space in three D and even just like The way the camera works with like the L buttons targeting stuff like all of that see targeting an unreal five engine is like pouring milk into soda. I don't want any of this. This is not mesh at all. Yeah. It's gonna this is the thing's going be so strange because I would guess anything that even if it is like the same game you love, but on the Nintendo Switch two with better graphics, I would assume that they's still going to be like, yeah, the right stick moves the camera now. Like theres there you can map the boots to one of the buttons now, like one of the face buttons. Like I assume they're going to do some of that stuff. Yeah, I think so. But as I said in a YouTube video I posted like two months ago when this rumor first hit, and as we've talked about many times on this show, the interesting about saying we're gonna remake Ocarine of Time. And I actually think you hit the nail in the head in a way that I've never really been able to describe before. When you said this, like a remake should be an adaptation of a thing more than just like the safest version of a remaster plus, you know Yeah. And ideally for me, especially if this is supposed to in some ways tie into the movie or whatever that this is going to be marketing for realistically, I would like to see a like I think the more interesting thing to do is Ocarina of Time kind of reinterpreted for a modern audience. And I think that is the more risky decision, obviously because you're taking a game that many people say is the best of all time and saying But we can maybe do it better, and maybe not even that, but maybe we could do it different and hoping to God that you can still appease all of those same people, whichich you never would, but that's also the kind of thing that like Nintendo has the budget and goodwill to attempt. You know what I mean? And that's the thing that really gets me at the end of the day. It makes me appreciate like for all the shit we've given rebirth, I'm still happy that we got That instead of just here's HD, Erith, but it's the same exact con. Take the swing, you know, tootally take the sw. Yeah. Give me a four hour subplot about Johnny fine. Like I revisited Rbirth not that long ago and I think playing the Starbucks rememake really made me appreciate that whole weird trilogy. Yes. It's just like. And I mean, the nightmare version of Occarina rememake as well is and I've heard this rumor a lot is that it's a two part game that you're gonna play a young link first and then adult link. And if they do that, if that's the new thing, that defeats the entire not I really don't want to be that like cinema Sins like you change something, I'm mad guy. But like the thesis of that game is like you grew up too quickly You know, and delegating that to two different games. Especially knowing that they like, they wouldn't come out at the same time. There'd be like a year to a year and a half gap between them. Yeah totally yeah. It's as if someone remade citizen Canada they like this table should be smaller. Like and you should You should say what roosebud means to the camera, like Rot to the hut. Right Anyway, I know we're being a little bit more pessimistic than usual. I just like I think it's important to have this conversation, especially considering you and I are usually more like, fuck yeah, a remake. Like we're both very excited for the personersa four remake. Yeah, still cautious about elements of it, but like, I'm excited to see what they do. My Game of the Ye year a couple of years ago was the remake of Resonident Evil four. Your Game of the year was the remake of Oh, Resident evvil four. sorry I thought you said personersona four because it was Persona three reload one year. You're right about that. But I was also thinking like that's an experience you wouldn't have had if not for that remake. Yeah. Like I think you maybe would have played persona three you have had a dramatically better time for yourself subjectively playing reload than Fez or Portable. And it's not because you're not willing to engage those games in their terms, It's just that like the adaptation of it spoke more to you U the same way I think about like Dragon Quest and I'm like about to bring up Dragon Quest also. I feel like anyone who loves Dragon Quest five is without specifying talking about especially in the US considering it was the first localized version of it here. But you're probably talking about the DS remake. Yeah And so I think yeah, I think like remakes don't necessarily have to always be adaptations. They can be reimaginings, rooted in the same thing. But again, it's like that was a case where we never got it before There was an opportunity to introduce it to a new audience passast just here at it. I think I think going deeper onto Dragon Quest, I think the two best case scenarios that we've had recently were like Dragon Quest two in particular from that DragonQest one and two HT two D remake thing that they did. likeike that took that game from literally the bottom of every single person list ever rank Dragon Quest to now contending like this might be number one. This might be the best DragonQuest game now. rememarkable. And then also Dragon Quest seven reimagine, which is I'll be honest, like not a game that I've connected to as much as I would have liked. But again, I appreciate the swing and the amount of I would say concessions not in a pejorative way, but like the amount of concessions they've made to make that game more approachable to a younger audience is exactly the kind of thing that I would want from a reimagining or a remaster like that. Yeah, and I think like when they first announced, like I've been excited at the idea of an Occarina timeim remake, not for myself but for people that haven't played it. And what I would want for themes is a more modern way to appreciate that story. R. And I think they don't get that if it's Z targeting and onreal Engine five You know, that's I think, I think that's my take currently. Now, we could be dead wrong about this. We're really going off of the two words timeless gameplay and the vibes of another remake they made That's by a different team. So like in a couple weeks, this could also have aged like milk and soda and it's like, oh, actually they've rethought a lot of this and looks really cool and exciting I'm open to that, but this is kind of how I feel currently. Yeah. It's a little time capsule for how we feel. Yeah. I also want to acknowledge that a lot of this from both of us is like prescriptive taste in some ways is like, you know us being like, we are the arbiters of what we think other people should have. I't I certainly don't wantan to come off that. No, but there is an element of it that I think needs to be acknowledged. And like if you're a person who just wants to play Bacarine of Time Unreal Engine five like I think it was I think it was Jacob Geller and Leo Vader on the Min Max show that were saying like there were YouTube videos ten years ago of people porting Ocarin of T to Unreal Engine that like just they just did that like in their house then uploaded it to YouTube and we were like, I've remade Ocarina of Time from scratch, Nintendo, try to beat this. And like ye, there are a lot of comments on those videos that are like thrilled by that Ccept So yeah. And I mean, if you just want like a touch up of visuals, there are so many actually great mods and projects that That wass actually the thing I was going to say about the three DS version is you can get the three DS version and there is who is that person? Henriico Magnifico is is this one person, they have a wonderful website where they've been working through every Zelda game and doing texture packs for every single one Over the years and their four K texture pack for Occarina of Time three D is like if you just apply that to that game is like maybe actually currently the best way of playing that game in my opinion. Stell. I guess to add an addendum to like what I want for other people, I guess what I mean by that is like I want them to have an experience, a new experience they're nostalgic for. Yeah. I want them to have the moment I had as a kid with the original Ocarina of Time, but not literally that I want them to have the new that, which I think a lot of kids had with Breath of the Wild. Yes, you knowly. I'm not pessimistic enough to think that this is going to be everything Nintendo ever does going forward. Right. Like I don't think we're just gonna to get remakes from now on unless they do like frighteningly well. But I would like to think that we're still going to get new ide from them that are exciting. I mean, even just thinking about Zenoblade Genesis is exciting to me, and that's like a new entry in a long running series. Yeah. And I think to your point earlier about Link's Awakening, like that led to echoes of wisdom, right? Yes, whichich I am curious if this could be the same thing. like if Occarin of Time rememake comes out and then there's like a new game in that style. That would be interesting. Yeah. Yeah we were talking about this yesterday The thing that you brought up was the possibility that we have this team likely Grezo doing Lakess Awakening the echoes of Wisdom and continuing this top down lineage of Zelda games every once in a while. We have obviously Aonuma and team making like whatever is the big bombastic like mainline new Zelda game. and there could be a third te that is answering the prayers of all the people who wish that Zelda would go back to a more kind of structured dungeon based style, starting with Ocarin of Time remake and then carrying that lineage forward as well as you're saying. Like I think that that's an interesting possibility space for this franchise is like kind of everyone gets what they want on a you know, couple of year delay where like these three teams are constantly working on different iterations of what Zelda can and should be That's a fun concept to me. and that's a little bit why looping all the way back around, I am more optimistic about Starfox twenty twenty six if the rumors are true that this was training this team up to make a new Starfox game where're like, yeah, get as you said, like nailing the feeling of playing Star Fox sixty four In twenty twenty six is clearly difficult or else somebody would have done it a long time ago. And yes they did that. L it does feel fantastic. And if they decide to take those mechanics, add some new fun stuff to them also and apply it to a new story with this new characterization and narrative chops that they've worked up Star Fox twenty twenty six, like that's an exciting prospect to me. Now, if the team that's making Ocreate of Time rolls right into doing the exact same thing with Majora's mask, I'm going to be a little bit like, I don't know if we need that. Although maybe Majora'sask in Unreal Engine makes more sense to me because there's uncanny about Unreal Engine that maybe works for Majora's Mask now that I say that outing Link like screaming as a new face graphs onto his own That might I mean, yeah, that would be very fascinating. I'm also curious how much the movie connects Ocarina, if that's like I haven't really followed the movie a lot. I'm kind of not that interested until I like hear about it. Yeah. But I would guess that the movie is not definitively like a adaptation of any of the games, but it's maybe just a loose loose ike Zelda story and I feel like if you're telling a Zelda E story, it largely takes the shape of something like Occarina. Totally. I would say. Yeah. They might not do the like, oh no I'm an adult now thing, but I'm sure it will have some kind of like Occarina is like the origin myth of a lot of the other games. Every sequel references Occarina in some way Yeah Yeah, I remember seeing some set photos, I think, and some like production stills from the Zelda movie and they implied Occarina in some ways, but then a lot of it like costuming feels more breath of the wild adjacent. So I think I guess it's like an amalgamation. Which should be. I agree. Yeah. so we'll see. We went long on that. adjusted spirit tracks I would love an animated Spirit trracks movie. That would' be good. Yeah, I'm very curious to see what comes next. I'm also curious to see just what the new Zelda is because obviously there will be a new one and it won't be whatever this remake is. And the only rumor we've been given for that is that it's similar to that it's taking inspiration from age of imprisonment Whichich is slightly more evidence from my theory that it will be a party based game Yeah. and it will have like more of a like RPG team than just like a solo adventure. Yeah That plus monolith building out a whole Zelda page on their website being like, we assist with the Zelda team, I think, fun. whichich that's a greatay for that. We should take a break. and we'll come back. We'll talk about monolith. We'll move on B by buddy We have a tiding from the Aher. This one is from Alan. It's very short and it goes like this. too my dearest Neve, a very happppy birthday, much love, and a warm aguqua from Alan, which is an in joke from the television program Andor. Oh wow. Howyirthday Neve. Happy birthday, Neve. Hope you have a good one. Thank you, Alan for supporting the show Let's get back to it. See you it Ben. Stephven, I'm going to start this segment by handing it over to you again. but first, I'll just lay the groundwork. There was an Nintendo direct last week. We obviously talked about it. You probably heard our episode about it. It was called bigigthumb. mp three And what else would it be called? One of the announcements was Xenoblade Genesis, which is a new Xenoblade game that seems to be, at least based on the name and the vibe, a prequel to all of the other Xenoblade games, which is a fun idea. Although maybe the big twist is that it's a sequel. We'll find out. And simultaneously, we got an announcement for Switch two ditions of Xeno Blay Chronicles one, two, and three, all of which add additional stuff here and there, not like content. It's not like DLC, you know, it's not like Torna, the Golden Country. There is actually well, not like to that degree, but there is actually a lot of like there's the Mario Kart addition into the first. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. I'm saying it's not new like story content. It's like It's gameplay stuff here and there Yeah the first one, as you were saying, you got like weird Mario card stuff. And Xenob Blade Chronicles's one definitive edition, Nintendo Switch two version came out. Actually they use ditionice. It is dition twice, right? Yeah. Yeah, which is even weirder. I'll say it again. Chronicles's definitive dition, Nintendo Switch two dition. It's the new DragonQest eleven It really. I should have said for the Nintendo Switch at the end. Xenoblade Chronicles definitive Edition, Nintendo Switch two dition Nintendo Sitch for the Nintendo Switch two. Yeah. that came out right after the Nintendo Direct. Xenoblade Chronicles two and three Nintendo Switch two ditions. They will be coming at later dates. Yeah but you have not ed Xenoblade Chronicles, the first. No. You've been kind of doing like a like a mach your own little machete order of Monolith Soft's video games. It's interesting. I'll just say this at the top. I weirdly and I always forget about this, but I bought Xenob Blay Chronicles for the Nintendo Wi when it came out. Oh wow. and got zero percent of the way into it. I found That was in twenty ten, right? Yeah So you were like not at all, you weren't even in your Vita era where you were like curious How amaz you even bought it Me too. I think it was just I think it was real I got that and I remember around the same time I got the Metroid Prime tririlogy because it was this weird era where Gamestop was publishing games. and those two games in particular were like the rarest Nintendo Wi games at the time. And I was like, okay, I definitely want to get these. And I remember starting Xenobade Chronicles Reading through the manual, having no idea what I was doing. I started playing the game. I was like, I just don't get it literally at all. And then I put it down. And it wasn't until obviously years later when I think I guess when the defeinive Edition came out on Switch that I decided to dip back in and I Yeah because you had played two and were off put by two. Yeah. And then neither of us were really that interested in the series until I think we both played three and then you went back to one. And And then my time with one was spectacular. And I only made it, I think like five or ten hours in somewhere in that vicinity. but you mentioned that you were picking up the Switch two dition. I was like, well, I already have the original so I think it's like a five dollar upgrade or something. It's like pretty cheap.'s too b. Yeah. So I was like oh, I'll do that. I'd be curious to see what has chang. So I've also been playing Zo Bl Chronless D definitive Edition Nintendo Switch two Edition this week. But I'm more curious for you as a newcomer to this game, how you're feeling about it, especially Just considering how much you love the other ones. o yeah also Zenoblake Chronicles X is floating around there, which we should mention. Actually ZenW Chronicles X, Nintendo Switch two dition is something that should be part of this conversation later because a lot of people are very unhappy with how that edition went and I feel like this is much better. But now we'll give the floor to you Zenobl Chronles, definive dition, Nintendowit twoo dition, Stehven Edition I'm fighting every temptation to say I'm really feeling it. No that I am. It's just say Rhindime. I'm really feeling it. Yeah It's Rhindime. Yeah. so I also kind of just like I didn't even know the series existed until I think two came out. And I looked it up. I was curious which which Xenoblg game has sold the best becausecause I know the broad story of the Xeno franch and that Zunolade was like, they finally did it and like it was a hit and it's, you know, been a hit ever since. But I was curious which one sold the best because I love that sales data for some reason. And it's two. And I think it's because two is a great game. It's definitely, I think my least favorite of the ones I've played so far, but it came out in that perfect window O like it was very early on the switch. And basically if you had a switch and you ask anybody like what is are there any big RPGs on here? Yeah, you would be told Zen of the Chronicles too. So anyway, I also started with three. I really loved three. I'm in the penultimate chapter of three and just got really burnt out by it. And three is a great game. It never fully lost me But I do feel like it kind of peakked somewhere in the middle. Like I feel like there's like a forty hour cut of that game. That's like my favorite RPG ever. And I just it just kept going. Yeah I think that's about as far in as I got too. I think I got like thirty or forty hours in and then was like I'm like eighty hours in. Yeah. and it's still going. Yeah. I mean all of these games are like it depends on how much side stuff you do They're all at least sixty hours. And that's if you like really mainline it, which you honestly shouldn't because it's all about the open world. I actually think that the I shared like a joking tier list of this today at the time of this recording. and I put Xenoblay Chronicles three in great but never ends negative and then Xenob Bay Chronicles X was great but never ends positive. because I think that like I don't think it's my favorite Xenoblay game but Zenom Bay Chronicles X is so heavily built around the MMO piece of it that it's more fun to me to just exist in that world and do kind of silly side quests than in any of the other ones where like I'm playing it for the main plot mostly. So I feel like it's hard for me to see like a just heart melting scene by the campfire about like identity and religion and then go get some meat for someone. L I don't w want to do that. I want to see what's next. So yeah, I love three, Warts and all. It inspired me to go back to two, which I also enjoyed and I've heard only it kind of has the opposite problem of three where it only gets better. Yeah. And then like what thing you were mentioning where like all these games kind of have like a second game. They have like a mini Zenoblade game that's DLC Graft on to the end, yeah. People love Golden Country. Torna, ye. Yeah. People love that. I'll get to that one day. I wna steal your joke of like retirement. I wasn't retirement. It giving your retirement game Hey Joran is great, huh? Anyway, so yeah, I played, I started with three and then I checked out two and then I ended up checking out Zeno Saga for some strange reason. and then which I did really enjoy. it's very bizarre, but I was just like very curious about the history of the series. So at this point, I've checked out most of them and I've accidentally worked my way backwards Be the most recent ones I've played have been Xeno Gears, which I am to finish for our PS one episode and now is Zeno Blay Chronicles the first one. Definitive Editions, which two edition. And I love it. It I think it's interesting to play even just a little bit of all these games to see like there is clearly a story this team has been trying to tell and has iterated on over A long period of time and it's so cool to see the different forms this story can take. And I think tonally, so far, I'm only about six hours into Xenoblake Chronicles one. I' on I just got Charlotte and I'm on my way to Colony six for those who know the plot. There's some pretty big events early on in this story that I don't want to spoil But this is a game that like kicks off with what most RPGs would say for the end of Dk one. I'll say that much. And it's really effective. And I think what I really admire about this game and why I think it might over time end up being my favorite Xeno game is that it has sort of like the meat and the themes and the like darkness of something like Xeno gears But it cuts it with like sweetness and hope and optimism in a way that feels really earned Yeah. And so when you're fighting a rabbit and Shulk is like, I'm feeling it. And Ron is like, that's what friendriends are Fool in it. I'm like, this is great. I love every second of this. I love how first of all, I'm amazed Tendo that half of this shit fly Comparatively, Xenoblade is the like most family friendly one, especially compared to Xeno Saga, which Agama Maze even came out. like never mind, you know whatever. But like it doesn't really hold back in terms of what's happening in the story, it's just sort of in the way it's depicted. you know There's a similar opening event in Zeno Gears, but it's done in a way that's like way more like purposely disturbing. Yeah It's in your face. they almost rub your nose in it. And that's effective. Yeah and that really works, but it kind of makes you feel like sick in an exciting way. And in this game, it's more like heartbreaking and the violence is more Akin to something like Star Wars, where like there's enough of a fantasy lens to it that like even though you are seeing like blood and like people's like perspective of this violence, like it feels very real and it has weight to it, but it's not quite as like immediately off putting. It feels like it's in the realm of what you expect from an RPG And I don't know, I just think I'm impressed by that balance of tone. That's why I've often said Porkoroso is my favorite Miyazaki films. I think it's like on one end, you've got the much darker adult films, like it's interesting. I would actually make a case that Miyazaki's dark and this is connected to the conversation I promise, but I think Miyazaki's darkest film in terms of what is happening on screen is actually Monono. but because it is a fantasy world, it feels a little bit more tolerable. when I think when wereise this is probably his most adult film, even though like we're not seeing a lot of the violence firsthand as often. Yeah, it's about it's just like kind of in ar reality. Yes, exactly. So I'm really impressed and Porca Rosso, I would say is like The movie that's right in the middle. Like it's definitely more adult than something like Kiki or Totoro, but it's not quite as graphic as those other two I mentioned. And that's what makes me love E I think that's actually harder to do. And I think Xenoblade pulls off having this story that's about grief and about war and about identity and religion and all these heavy ideas And have it be unbelievably video gamy where like characters are yelling the same catchphrases in battle constantly. And also you're finding stuff like nice, cool all the time Yeah. When you make gems, the two characters are like, great. good job. it's just so unabashedably a video game in a way that also kind of adds some levity In a way that I appreciate. Yes. I love the characters. I think this like I like all the characters in Xenoblg Games, like even two, L I think Rex and Pyra and Methra and that whole crew like I ended up liking over time. But I think there's something there's something more relatable about this crew in the way that the adventure kicks off Where I think the starting party of two is a little bit more fantastic. and the starting party of three is like in the midst of war from go. Right. So I think they've been like born and raised to do the adventure that you're about to do. Yeah. And in this game, it's like we tripped and fell and now we have to leave home and go on an adventure. Yeah, there's a little bit more of that like That sort of classic heroess journey thing. Yeah. I will say like the inciting event, I won't say like what it is, but basically in all the worlds of Zunob Blade, they're not all technically in the same. That's a whole other conversation that I won't even get in Z. But we' just concentrate on this one. So in this world, everyone lives on the bodies of these two giant like kaiju that we're fighting They're almost like mech. like they're kind of like if two evangelian mechs like stopped mid combat and then like were overgrown with like moss and life. And on one of these giants is the Bionis and the other one, I forgot the name. Man. Mcan. there you go. Thankk you. For Switch two. And basically, one is home to organic life and one is home to mechanical life Yes and they're at war. And there's this legendary sword that Shulk ends up wielding called the Monado that is basically the only weapon that can harm these machines that periodically will like invade places. Yeah. Interesting it can like I love one of the first moments that you see it after the intro sequence is Rine picks it up and it accidentally slices through some of the machinery in this lab that Shulk works in Yeah and bounces off of one of their friends because because can it can't pierce like organic life. Yeah It just slices very easily through anything that's made of metal esssentially. It's very interesting. I love the scene, where she's like, whyy weren't you worried about me at all? Like And Sulk is like because I I know how it works. Yeah. That trio is so fun. L Ryan is like the big lovable like definition of a hbo, like Later hoseen with no shirt Yeah just like ready to take a blow for his friends. They're all great. I really like Shulk. I'm surprised at how much I enjoy him as a protagonist because I'm kind of entering this the way Nintendo hopes people are entering the Star Fox remake where I only know Shulk from Smash Basically R. And I think he's a great protagonist because he's like really interested in machines in a very miyazaki way. Like he's kind of fascinated with engineering and doesn't really go outside that much. And it's kind of socially unaware, but also feels things very deeply. Voice acting is really good. I weirdly think of the three of them as like like Almost like they live in like a coastal surf town. they obviously do not I was thinking, I think one of the reasons why you like this game so much too is it feels very Kingdom hearts. It does feel very Kingom Hearts. Like Fiora Ryan and I mean, Schulk even kind of runs like Sora. like he has this sort of like Yeah, p goofy shoes thing going on. Yeah. Yeah, that one scene where like they teach you about the the like affinity scenes. Yes on the kind of like mountainop overlooking the colony when the sun has set. Beautiful scene deeply Kingdom Hearts. Yes. But again, it's like I think the reason why the beginning of Kingdom Hearts and the beginning of Acarina and the beginning of Zinabblade all feel connected is because they're all giving you that like brief slice of life before the adventure begins. you get a very strong sense of home is to these characters. And also what I love and this is something I love about just fantasy in general is like we learn what amazing things are mundane to them. You know, like there's a moment where Schulk and Fiora are in this park and every now and then debris of one of the giants falls into their village And they had these laser cannons that shoot it down. And to them, it's kind of like a fire drill that was like, oh, we should go inside now. Yeah. And like anytime you get a glimpse like there are some parts, you forget you're on a giant's body and then you'll get into an area called like mecaap Hill and you'll see like ye like there's actually a really great scene where Ryan and Schulk just like take a moment to look at these two giants. It's really special. I mean, there's a lot here that's in two and three and even X as well. There's a lot here that's in all of the Xeno games. but I just I think like having seen a lot of different iterations of it, seeing how dark and disturbing Xeno saga has gone with these ideas, having seen like you know where it began with Xeno gears and where it ended up as Xeno Blade, I do kind of get why this is the one that took off And I think for me on a deeply subjective level, I found myself most immediately attached to this world. Zeno Gears is like so fucking confident and it's so cool in a way that this game is like endearingly dorky. Yeah I'll always root for the Dork though. You know, L I feel like I think by the end of this, Xeno Gears and Xeno Blade will be my favorite pick, which is not a hot takeick I really want to see this through. you know, I think once we're done with PS one, I will be able to more meaningfully tackle my backlog. So I do probably have to like chip away at this or put it on the back burner to focus on PS one stuff. But I'm so happy I checked it out and I haven't fully engaged with the Switch two editions yet like the Mario Kart stuff. I really wanted to play that before we recorded. but You have to get to I just got the like check out camp next time I there might be something weird and that's like where the Mario card is. But I want to get a little bit further in. but I love it. I think it's I think narratively it has felt the best paced so far, at least in my opinion. I agree. How do you feel about the combat in this game? The combat in every Xenoblade game always feels like it is overly confident in my understanding of the basics. Yes. It's funny. I feel like a lot of Xeno fans, Xenoblade fans in particular like will say that two secretly has the best combat, but is so confusingly explained. Like the tutorial of that game is like infamously bad. Yeah. Th, I think does a much better job explaining itself. But the thing about three that kind of bumped me is that you have like seven people in your team, which I think is way too much It's just like too much shit happening And then also you're constantly swapping out what it has like sort of a Final Fantasy five job system. So I feel like le again, on a subjective level, in an RPG, I like building up my characters to be a specific role. And I feel like in three, you're kind of incentivized to constantly be like in the end game, you do kind of have to lock in stuff But I feel like the bulk of it is like, all right, who hasn't been this yet? Okay, now you're a clown and now you're the now you're a full metedal jaguar or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it works less well in a game like Xenob Blade than it does in something like Bravely D defeault where like that's that's the goal of the game. And the combat itself is simple enough that you can have fun with the maximalism of the classes. Right In three already have you also have the mechX, you also have the like arts and then canceling arts and then the chain. it's cool once you know what it is. So to answer your question, I think the combat I've enjoyed the most in Xenob Blades so far has been one and X. Yeah. I feel exactly the same way. I think what's fun about one so you get the Menata, which is this legendary sword. What I love about it is that it' it kind of is also giving the one ring a little bit. There's something about it that is like kind of And that seems to be another recurring theme in a lot of Xeno Games is like the weapon the legendary weapon is some type of holy artifact that is also cursed, whichich is also classic storytelling, but I feel like that's sort of the mech you have to pilot in Xeno gears. That's kind of Cosmos herself in Xenosaga. Yeah And here it's the Monato. And that's so cool. You know, I think that's I think the Minato is a really fascinating sword, like it chsen one sword. And very early on, Shulk realizes that not only can he wield the Monato, because previously there's a guy named Dunben who is like so fucking cool. I love when you can tell who a main character is because the game begins and it's like soldiers fighting these robot lobsters and then this like unbelievably hot guy with like wet hair comes in a giant red sword. And he's like, sorry, I'm late. It's like But what's great is that like even a character as over the top as him, like you can tell this sword is making him sick. There's a great scene with him and Fiora, who's his younger sister where she's trying like it cuts ahead like several years and they're now back in town and Dunban is like the hero of this place, but he's also like he's hiding how deeply injured he is from the sword and from the battles And Fiora is trying to feed him and he's like, you worry too much. Sos like, I'll be fine. Go play with Shulk. And then the minute she leaves, his like hand is shaking to pick up. That was really effective. Like That's what I mean about balancing tone is like you go from like, sorry, I'm late, nothing personnel kid, zip zip zip to like him trying to eat in private is just such a human moment But anyyway, Schulk is special because we're playing as him. and he can also wield the Minado seemingly without physical injury. He definitely has kind there's definitely a Frodo and Sam thing going on with him and Ryan where Ryan is like the you know, unbelievably good heart, very direct, and will always kind of put Schulk back on the right path. and Schulk is constantly having visions The Monato lets him see into the future very briefly. So basically he'll get it's kind of it almost becomes funny in a morbid way where like at this point whenever anyone is like, Heish, A it's nice to meet you. his eyes turn blue and he sees them die horribly. He' like immediately.s like, how do I tell this person? It's nice to meet you. alsoso don't walk right. Yeah. It's like the camp of final destination happening. Y, exactly. But he can start to see visions of the future and he's and basically That's kind of like he and his friends leave the town and they're like, can we can change the future. And they're like very near future. L I can see what will happen if we do nothing. And that also factors into the gameplay. So the gameplay has the classic like Xenoblade MMO. like you're controlling one character at a time, waiting for cooldowns. There's a lot about positioning Some moves will do more damage from behind from the side. You can then pull off like chain attacks once you've built up enough energy. And I think it's just like simpler in a way that I appreciate. But where it gets more complicated is they incorporate the Minado's future abilities into combat. So it will be like you can see into the future when like you forgot to heal and Ryan gets one shot by a spider. And you can like warn them and have them use a move or you can like nine times out of ten, I can just use the Monato arts and cast Shield and we're fine. Yes. But if you like defy the set future, you get like future defiance coins, which you can use to like upgrade affinities. And there's a lot of like there's clearly a theme of working together. and I like how tied to the themes the combat is. I always love when games do that where the mechanics are an extension of the story. Y, whichich is why I think the game benefits from being so gamey is because like every piece of it, even when you're bringing meat to a nameless NPC, they will update this affinity spreadsheet chart of like now they kind of like's like it's a big relationship meter that shows every NPC in the entire game that you can talk to and how they relate to everybody else. And like anyime you do anything in the game, it will update. and it'll be like these two people who are unrelated from the thing you were just doing sometimes, they're in a feud. Yeah. It's so funny. It's like Tamadachi life, Im It is like Tamadachci. It seems like minded. I'm obsessed with that. I think that's in two also and then they get rid of it Or is that three Beause three has the whole thing where like you your relationship with all the different colonies is a thing. Oh yes, you're right. And then There will be a character there that gives you like a new class. And you can have's like a rotating seventh guest spot of your party. Yeah. It's cool. Like I like that system. I just I love how in Zenoblade one, it's like you've got three party members. Boom, that's it. You choose who's in your party. Yeah. I love that approach. Even in two is like, yeah, you've got three, but they also all have their personas and that's a whole other thing. Yeah about The first game is that they really they really distilled the MMO nature of it, like the inspiration mechanically of MMO down into a single player format in a way that makes a lot of sense. And I feel like as you get further into the franchise, they expand on what they think Xenob Blade is as a franchise mechanically, which obviously presents a bunch of like new G good to be clear mechanics that are like fun to mess around with, but the first one really does feel like this really radical take on what an MMO could be. And you could so easily take the exact mechanics of that game and put them in an actual like live service MMO and they would work perfectly. whichich I think I think is one of the interesting things about it is like they definitely took a stab at what it would be like to just play an MO with just one person in it, right? And that totally works. But it is also like an extension of the idea of the hot bar, you know, and the idea of using the other people in your party who are computer controlled, but you know, the like days and topple and break and all that kind of stuff and like the kind of rocks paper scissors of all of it I think is like stuff that you could find in a Gild Wars or a World of Warcraft or something like they're at or like a Final Fantasy fourteen, but having the entire thing mapped to like a very easy to use hot b heavy quotes around easy. comparatively simple. Comaratively simple. Yeah, when you look at a screenshot of like high level worldorld of Warcraft play, for example The comparison point between that hot bar and the one you will have by the end of a Xenoblade Chronicles game is like a night in day experience. And I find that that both maximalism and restraint in equal measure is one of the things that makes the game's combat work for me. Yeah. But it is still like even still, there's a pretty big hurdle to getting into it. L there's still like you do need Because I don't think even in this version of it, the tutorialization like tells you everything you need to know or is like super helpful in every way that you need it to be. Honestly, like so I have a sa file of this game that was about five hours in. It was in chapter four. And I was like, well, before I jump back into that, let me start the game from the beginning again just so I can like go through the tutorial bits. And of course, I got like three hours into that before I went back to my original save file. And even in all of that time, they never got to the part where they were teaching me about like topple and break and stuff. It was just like, I have moves in my hot bar that can do those things but they didn't tell me anything about like what they mean or why and the fact that you need to be doing them in a specific order. They also break the rules to not break the rules, but I noticed this problem in Mina as well, where like I think both games are clearly designed by geniuses who get bored of their own rules very quickly and want to defy them. Yeah. Like, okay, now you know how to burrow, right? This is going to challenge your assumption on how that works. R. And like within the opening event of Xenoblade, it's like These enemies can only be hurt if they're toppled and it's like, I have done one encounter. Y. you're really overestimating how much I've picked up in that like encounter that ended before was over so I can meet someone new. Yeah. I think it clicks once you're in the more open world map and you have the opportunity to get I just think in both cases Very different games but like in both Mina and enablade, I'm like, I wish I was able to like give me like a half hour with just the basic bread and butter combat, then play with it from there. Start leveling stuff up. And even that extends out into all of the like secondary tertiary mechanics too, because they even give you the tutorial for how to craft gems like an hour to two hours before they actually let you craft gems. Like you meet the gem crafing guy who's like, Hey Joke, do you want to learn how to craft gems? I love. And then they walk you through all the different steps of it. And then like immediately, any player' first assumption would be, oh, okay, I'm gonna go use this machine and craft some gems and you are not allowed to. You just don't. You just can't Which I find very You can equip gems and they give you some gems to equip so they can show you what that's like, but that's about it. But even the stuff like, you know, how your arts and skills level up and like the skill trees in particular with like the three different branching paths and like where SP comes from to level that stuff up, like they tell you that that menu exists, but they don't tell you how it works all You know what I mean? Like that's the kind of stuff where I feel like you know I've brought this up about Monster Hunter, I brought this up about personersona, but like every time I play a Xenoblade Chronicles game I feel like I learn more about how to play a Xenoblade Chronicles game.. And even on this playthrough, just to like play through the opening of the game again so I could jump back into my safe file later, I was like, o, there are systems that I've never once encountered or interacted with that I'm now learning and can utilize when I jump back into my safe file, which I found to be a weird That was the surprising thing about Zuno gears for me is how comparatively simple that combat is. Yeah. Like the only thing they really don't tell you that is important is that like you can learn combos. like if you do certain series of attacks enough, you'll unlock what are called death blows that are kind of crucial for when you're fighting in mech form 'causeuse you can also do those combos as a mech. But overall it's like pretty simple. It feels very much like in the realm of FF seven where that combat is more about showing off how flashy the PS one is versus like doing something that is like mechanically dense, whichich I appreciate. Yeah, especially when we're playing like eight RPG's for that episode. So yeah, but no to answer your question I am really feeling it. I love this game. Deinitely a go toy to top. It will probably be my game of the other year of the year probably. Yeah, I'm excited to keep playing this also. because just looping back to the thing I mentioned at top of this, the Xenob Blade Chronicles X Switch two edition that came out had a lot of like kind of weird Like AI upscaling artifacting stuff going on in the background. you know, where like it was clear that the upscaler they were using was like misinterpreting the way a lot of the backgrounds looked and just kind of making them. The way I always describe them is wormy. Like that's a great way to that's a great descriptor. It always just looks like a bunch of like worms are kind of like that happened with Keronac Cross as well. Yeah Oh, yeah, yeah, Chron Cross like the modern upscaling of that Yeah. And thankfully, this version at least does not have that. Like this version Switch to Edition looks amazing. I've played probably about three or four hours handheld and then another hour on the TV. and I was really impressed in both instances how beautiful it looks. Yeah, I played on both and I felt the same ways I have I have the definitive edition of Chronicles X, which which is great. So I guess the move is just to not get the Sitch two upgrade for that one. Yeah. well the thing, it doesn't look that bad. It just is a little weird, you know. But I'd be curious. I know some people did this. I would bet anything that like the crew over at Good Vibes Gaming did this because this is kind of their bread and butter I'd be curious to see what Xenoblade Chronicles X looks like between the Switch two edition and just handheld boost mode. Yeah. I wonder I wonder in that case which one would be the one to go with, but yeah, that's that's a game also that I'm like. I would love to spend fifty to one hundred thousand hours playing that game. I just don't know when that's going to be, but I have loved like every minute of Xenoblade Chronicles X that I played Yeah, that's I think that's weirdly up there for me despite having the least interesting story. I think just because it is like a gameplay setting first, it's like the FF five of Xena Blade. It's just like, yeah, go out and explore and get a cool mech. Yeah. And I think what you love is like what is like what is the everym's life like in a fantasy world And that feels at the closest you get because rather than being shulk with the Menado, it's like, okay, which like lowest part of the army do you want to be part of? Do you want to be the people that like throw out trash or the people that like put scanning beacons in the dirt? Yeah, whichich is what I picked. And none of them are like we're the warriors. It's like theseese are people that scout jungles before anyone gets sick, R It's like very practical. Yeah You scout the jungle so the protagonists can go in there afterwards Yes. That's a great point ' one of the lead characters, I forgot her name, like she's clearly like, if this was a like numbered Xenob Blade game, you'd be playing as her. Right, probablyro. Yeah. But we're like her intern. Yeah. You're the guy who to the Predator in the jungle to show the audience that the Predator exists. I think I n my character skunk or something. L Yeah have a green like pompador with a streak through it. But do I'm kind of with you. Now I'm like really I spent so funny. I spent most of yesterday with some of our friends, our mutual friends walking from Midtown Manhtan all the way to Coney Island. Yeah, I saw some pictures. whichich was fun Multiple times throughout that walk, I was like, I can't wait to get home and play Zele Big Chronicles. Yes. I've just been thinking about it ever since I started playing it, it's really kind of. Yeah, It's just very whimsical while also being very heavy, which is hard to do both. It does the thing visually and aesthetically that I think is like part and parcel with every piece of media I love the most, which Now that I'm saying this out loud, I'm wondering how much of it was inspired by Windows XP. But It's literally just like beautiful green verdant field, the bluest sky you could possibly imagine. Yeah. That's present like almost at all times as long as it' daytime in Xenoblade Chronicles. and I love that about it. Yeah, this series is very much like like all the box art for Xenoblade games, that's like the twin sunset of Xenoblade. It's like sort of Distant silhouette of the protagonist or friends or the Minato and like blue sky. Yeah. evenven the title screens of Xenob Bllectronicalles, definiteive Edition. Just the Minato dug into the grass, grassland, blue sky, I think a couple trees in the background. Xenom Blectronicalless, definitive dition Nintendo's whichich two dition. use I'm gonna to start No longer on three Dcond. Yeah. Beautiful music. Did you play this on three DS? How was it on there? I did try it on three DS. I didn't get that far in. It's fine is how I'd put it. I've heard it's like surprisingly functional, but obviously not the way to play it. Yeah. I'd be curious to play more though. Now that you've said this, I'm gonna maybe assign this to myself. You know, I'm sure someone's done this, but I'm kind of dying to see like A Sper Nintendo Dake of Xenoblade Chronicles Wow. What is like this pixel art? Yeah, maybe someone has already done that. Yeah I'm justoogling Xenoblade Chronicles, Dake and seeing what shows up. I'm sure there's something good in here. Oh yeah, there's some good stuff. Yeah. I don't know about playable, but I'm looking at some funont screenshots. Very cool. It looks like oh my go, what is that game S of Stars Yeah, I mean, that that kind of is aesthetically similar. mayaybe a little bit more fantastic in terms of like there's a lot of a lot of like fantasy creatures and stuff. There's kind of a lifelessness to. Well, no, there's it's surprisingly barren. I guess it depends which one you're playing. I feel like Xenoblade one, you have these like stretches with like dinosaurs in them and stuff Two feels like the most lush setting. L it feels like the most kind of alive and vibrant. Yeah. And then three is actually the most kind of like devastating. Yeah three's pretty rough. It takes a while to get to a place that feels alive. Yes. It's almost it's kind of the inverse of one where like by the time the inc the dark inciting event happens in one That's like your first taste of normalcy in three. Like when the two opposing casts like finally meet and like have lunch together or whatever. right. It's great. is three is great. I definitely don't want it to come off like I don't like three. I just think it was like I kept having like every chapter was like, wow, what a great finale. And then it was like, okay, onward and upward. I'm like, o, okay. We're still going Yeah neededs an editor a little bit. Yeah. yeah. Anyway, shall we? Is that it for this week? I think so. Yeah, I feel we went really long on Starfox, which I almost want to apologize for, but I think it was fun. I lik it. I thought that was. I thought it was fun. I'm excited. So I'm visiting my parents for the rest of the week. Okay which isool going to be fun because I think that means I get to play The Aventures of Elliot, like, oh yeah on a balcony overlooking a beach, which will be really nice when that comes out. You can yell into the distance. Who's the coolest guy? Elliot. Ellot Everyone on the beach responds. ye.. Who's one of eight guys that can pull off a red Fedora? Elliot. Elliot. And doctor Henry Jones junior Well, that's exc. I'm excited that. I think that's gonna to be fun. Yeah, I'm pump for Elliot, despite my cautious opening. I will say we mentioned last week we were going talk about wax headads this week and then we didn't. But we got shulked. We got shulked. We could talk about it next week though. Yeah, I got about halfway through. It's like an eight hour game, I think. so I'm like in the middle. That's also they divide it up like a vinyl, which is fun. Yeah. It's a really cool I guess They describe it as like a life sim. I was going to say visual novel is like a catch all, but you work in a record store and you learn about the lives of the people who work there and the customers coming in. It's really cool. Yeah I love the art style. Curious your thoughts on this. I feel like as a musician, I'm sure you'll relate to a lot of pieces of it. You better believe it, Buster. Be it's largely about, I would say without spoiling, it's about getting older. Yeah. It's like what I'm picking up the most from it Just sort of the balance of like, you, it reminds me a lot of that point, like when you're kind of entering your late twenties, that's sort of like the moment not that there's any like age cutoff for following your dreams or pursuing the arts even, but like just once you've been in sort of the working world enough, you suddenly have to ask yourself, like how much do I actually love this And what am I willing to sacrifice to keep pursuing this serious Right. And I think it has a really kind of heartwarming take on like the various answers to that question. Yeah. that isn't objectively just like, never give up and don't get a day job. You know, sometimes you do need to survive as well. Yeah. So it's cool. It's a cool game. I'm excited to see how it wraps up Yeah Let's talk about that next week Yeah, I'd love to Well we'll endeavor to do it and make sure it doesn't get buried on. That's why we big Try not to say what we're playing next week because we never know where our wins will take us sometimes never know feeling it. I have I have on I keep like a constant note that's like the rundown for the show every week. and then I do move games to our backlog of games. and we'll endeavor to make sure that Waxheads does not make that list. Yeah. on that note, thank you all so much for listening. Into the Cast at Online is our website. All relevant links are there. If you like the show, the best way to help it grow is to share with a friend. You can also rate and review us on your podcast app of choice And you can support the show directly at patreon dot com slash into the cast. You can also buy merch from our merch store, also ent the castet online, as well as personal messages and ad reads that are in the merch store too. Elliot's on the horizon, very exciting. I hope you have a great trip, BB. Thank you. And yeah, I guess we'll talk to you all next week talk to you next week everybody. Have a good one everybody. Bye bye