Gendered Fandoms and Cultural Bias

At this point now, I'm old enough to be Trinity's mother. That's our daughter. Oh my God. I do feel like this is the first season where I've been like none of these people are hot to me because they're all my children. I love my beautiful sons and daughters. I don't know about you I am in my sporty spice era. I love that for you. Yes. I am following Mexico and Ghana and the World Cup. I was just watching the Knicks win their MNBA Championship and I follow the Liberty play in the WNBA. I know I'm like the last person to find out that watching sports and being an active sports fan like Rx I' here now and I have been following Yet another near daily competition that I kind of think should be considered a sport, Love Island. I noticed that there are a lot of similarities. For one, again, both near daily, like you can catch a game most days. Same thing with Love Island. They have highlight shows. It took me seeing a Love Island aftersun to understand why sports highlight shows exist, to be honest They're our favorite players, competitors, and you can bet on both Love Island and spports on Calcici And I'm also kind of coming to this realization a little late too When I posted about it on X, defector dot com, staff writer and co owner Kelsey McKinney was like, Brittney, can I interest you in my old blog about this So I've brought Kelsey here to the show to gab about why Love Island is sports and how these formats can bring us together. Haly. Welcome back to It's been a minute. Pre, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. We love sports Hello, hello I'm Brittney Luz and you're listening to It's Ben A Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. First of all, Vive check Who is your winning couple on Love Island this season? I feel like America is really united on this In that we are Trinity and Bryce. I am in a Trinity and Bryce household. I salute them. I love them. Same. Are you Kate Burning to Infinity? Are you kidding me My husband was actually really early on this. He was like, this is a winning couple right here. and he said that like two weeks ago. He was so early. You know what? I want to truly admit that I was wrong. I really did not like Bryce. Like the first few days in the villa, I was like Who is this like Cullin familyily weirdo loitering around and I really made a full one hundred eighty. this guy and now I'm like, I love him. He's so funny. I'm obsessed with him. I hope he doesn't throw himself out of Casa to his death because he misses Trinity so much.ally. I mean, like everybody else is trying to cheat on their like main villa girls And he's like standanding at like the edge Of like a literal cliff into the dark ocean talking about how much shes in Trinity. Like crying, yearning. That's the thing. I mean he provided the urinning. I was already into Trinity from the beginning. Like I thought she was funny. I thought she was bullly, I that she was awesome. Yeah because she has the face of an angel. The face and also the heart of an angel, She is like the sweetest funniest Cutest girl ever. she's adorable But then I started noticing that like I would listen to little bits of her and Bryce's conversations. And I was like, o, they seem like they're getting along. I got into him as an individual once I realized that I was like, oh This guy is like a male model who's turning thirty. Excuse me, male model slash DJ slash garbage truck repairman. Yes I hate don M I get little like insecure about it but. Why? I like fix like garbage trucks and stuff and it's like it' almost like disgust. Who cares? I think it's cute. I like it. And so I was like, he's turning thirty and he's having like You could tell that he's in a sort of interesting extential crisis where like the other guys are so young. They're like twenty one, twenty two, twenty three that they think that like life is going to be a never ending buffet of beautiful women that want to talk to them. But like Bryce you could see is at the other end of the rainbow. He knows He's like There's more to life. Like any that is perpetual peing sadness about him, but I digress. I agree. Bryce and Trinity are my couple. They have real conversations. They're sweet and funny One of the like they seem to have formed a genuine bond where they actually like each other, which is one of the reasons why why you watch? Part of what is fun about Love Island is watching people interact with each other in ways that like you can tell our actual chemistry, right? Like one of the things that I think Bryce and Trinity do is like they're both so nosy, like unbelievably nosy. They're like, who's making that kissing sound? Wh's talking to who, and you can see them like yapping, which I think is very nice. when they get in the bed at night and they're just like ing about everybody else was doing all day. Iard just like be for real. . I was like, wow, this like a direct window into my bedroom. I think a lot of people would think about a love competition reality show and sports, right? And not think of them as the same thing, but you and I came to the same conclusion. You came to it last summer in a beautiful, beautiful essod ofA R for Defector d. com But I wonder, how did you realize that Love Island was sports? L how did that change the viewing experience for you So I am a big baseball fan. I've always been a big baseball fan. I like to watch it, I like to engage in a team activity. And most of what I like about baseball is that there are one hundred sixty two games a season. And so it is on There's a baseball game on every day. And so many of the games really matter. Many of the plot lines you're paying attention to are like That guy's wife is pregnant. Is he hitting better now? rightight? Like here you have enough time. in the season to like learn all of these narratives and things about the players because there's space for it And so I've always really loved the kind of like routine almost like religious aspect of baseball, where it's like you sit down every day and you enjoy your little liturgy show on television And then you're done. And so when I started watching Love Ey last year, I was like, wait a second These are the same. Every day, I watch television There's a bunch of random people I don't know up there, and I'm invested in some of them and I viscerally hate some of them and none of that is based on anything that is a stat. It is all based on like my heart And then I think secondarily something you were talking about like getting really into the mix is there is a sense of like monoculture with Love Island that exists right now that is really rare. We're like I was at the coffee shop the other day and they were like Are you watching Lo Viol? And I was like, Yes. And it's like, okay, we're all gonna get into it, right? And that is the same feeling I live in Philadelphia that we have in Philadelphia when it's like The birds are doing well Rightight? Or thehillies are doing well. It's like, o, do you see the game? Right? It's like more about your ability to talk about it than it is about the thing that you're actually observing We're gonna take a quick break, but first, if you're a longtime listener or brand new to its spin a minute Be sure to come back every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday for brand new episodes. And did you know you can make it even easier to get new episodes by hitting the follow or subscribe button on your favorite podcast app? Whether you're a new friend or a loyal bestie, join the team by subscribing today Coming up after the break I'm looking to adopt one of the players on this team as my terrible little son. Which one of them needs encouragement Stick around I'm a sports girlly we'll talk a little bit more about that. I'm like starting to realize that sports are communal activity. But I think at this point you could call yourself a sports girlly, but please continue. Maybe so Maybe it's not an era, mayaybe this iss who I am now. Yeah, maybe. I dont know. I think for a while, I didn't understand how to get into it But like you have this beautiful means of like getting into a sport that I love. You wrote another essay about that fordfacto dot com about selecting what you call a terrible sun. Yeah. I mean, for you in major leeague baseball, like in that league, for me, it would probably be in the NBA. You can do it with any league. So the theory is that if there's any game on TV Right? And you're with someone who knows the game and you want to also care about the game, right? You tell them, you're like, I'm looking to adopt one of the players on this team as my terrible little son Which one of them needs encouragement and then tell me facts about them. And then your friend says, okay, you can have this player, you know He's five foot eight, he like can't kicks the ball to save his life. Everyone loves him because he has a cute bulldog or whatever. And you're like, great, that's my son. I will follow him on Instagram. And like that kind of personal attachment, I think is really what sports are about. It's about like rooting for someone the way you would root for like your kid in a little league game or like your friend playing kickball, right? Like it's like you're rooting for the team because you care about the individuals on the team, which is not how everyone watches sports, but it's something that I find really enjoyable. I've decided actually that my newew thing that I'm gonna to get into is Premier League soccer. I'm like I want to keep the soccer wave going. Oh, I love that for you. And I'm trying to decide between BarsA and Arsenal. Does Arsenal have a guy for you? Like, is there somebody that you can root for And that's what I got to find out. If you have a strong opinion about which Premier League soccer team I should follow Please let me know because I am I get some advice. Yeah, I'm a free agent right now. I'm open to any guys. I'm actually, what is that called? I'm uncoupled.' what do they call it I'm single. You're single and vulnerable. I'm single. I'm single I think there is a type of sports fandom that is like not accessible to everyone Not that you couldn't learn it, but that maybe you don't want it. And that's like caring about every little stat, caring about every little play, understanding like the intense nuances of these games and like why coaches do stuff But the thing is, like The way people behave is much more general than that. And so like A great example of this is like when the Eagles won the Super Bowl a few years ago. I knew that Cooper Degine was going to get an interception. H he had never had an interception. in his entire time in the NFL. and I was like, but it's his birthday I knew And everyone I was with was like, come on, man. he has I was like, no, it's his birthday. He's got to do it. And like there is something true about the fact that like a lot of sports is just B. playing the game. And so like you can be invested in the people playing it as much as you can be invested in the game that they're playing, right? Like what are the rules of the games on Love Island? There are no rules They're always like, oh, you're competing in this competition Whoever kiss the best gets a point And it's like, well, how are we judging kiss the best? But then you can see that islanders get really worked up about it because it's like, well, yeah, playing games is fun. Being on a team is fun. And at a core level, like that's what both of these things are. It's about like being on a team. Like we're on the Love Island fandom team right now. Yes and we'll fight people who don't like us. Literally, I mean, I'm trying to convert people into. Yeah. And I really actually I feel like recently I got a convert, so I'm feeling good. I mean, to that point though about like Being on a team, the connection is so key to it. Like one of the things that's been most beautiful about entering my Sporty Spice era is realizing that a lot of the connection I've had over the years You know ond by gosiping about the real Housewives or the ladies who are married to medicine oring certain couples on Love Island. It's that kind of connection. It's like part of what makes being a sports fan so great. Like literally just wearing my Mexico jersey People just start talking to me. Yeah, I'll just start talking to other people that I see wearing jerseys on a game day and be like Oh, where are you going? People be like, Ohh, you speak Spanish, likeike let's chat. Yeah. Do I speak Spanish? Almost. You're learning Almost I'm learning, but the jersey is like inviting conversation, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then you're chatting about the game together and it's great. and it's like it's interesting, like in the landmark book about like, you know, connection and community, bowling alone One of the hypotheses for a decline in community among Americans is television. What do you think about the tension there with this kind of television that also connects people? Love Island, I think is one of the first shows, and this is why I would argue that it's closer to a sport than some of the reality TV that you and I both really enjoy. Love Island is one of the first shows that we've seen like bars doing showings of right? Like these big group events of like, come to your local brewery and we're showing at four PM, a World Cup game and at nine PM, Love Island. Island What? Like that feels crazy, but it's because it's like it's a moment and it's a Connection event There are obviously forms of television watching that are isolationist, right? Like you're alone in your home, you're never talking to anyone about it. It's like a kind of escape mechanism that kind of blinds you to the rest of the world And I think part of what makes Love Island and sports not really like that is that because there's so much content And it comes on every day, you have to talk about it, which means like if there's nobody in your home with you for you to talk to about it, you have to go outside. Like you have no other option. It's like I sure you could post on TikTok, but that's not the same goingo outside and just talking about how much you love something, is really enjoyable. And I don't really like personally buy into some of that fear mongering of like, the decline of culture is like whatever new form, they said that about the theater too, right whereere it's like, yeah, there are things that separate us from one another. but shared joy is a big part of common culture. That can be a huge part of like how connected you feel, right? Like there's really no joy greater than high f being a stranger. Rules And like there's not a lot of opportunities to do that. Like in general, it's sports Or now it's Love Isid It's so true. I mean, it's a really, really good point. There's something else I wantan to touch on, though, please. Being so involved in sports fandom and love Island fandom at the same time This is like not a searing insight. Okay. But I realized how deeply these things are So gendered. Oh yeah. even though they're basically like the same in a way and they come from the same impulse. L I don't know. L I think back to the first time that I ever saw the New York Liberty play WNBA team. I saw them play in person Right. Yeah. Right becausecause sports, to me, were an exclusive space that you weren't welcome in. Yeah. spports is so exclusive and seeing women not just be included be at the center of very serious competition that was not about their looks and was not about romance, which I mean, I love, but it's different. But it was about their pure athleticism. L it really brought me into tears. I was like, oh, our society takes sports very seriously. For women to be shut out of that shows how deeply our society thinks of women as unerious. Like spports fandom can be so gender exclusive. It can be hard to find, I think, a place of entry to feel like you can you'll be welcomed into it. Yeah. Also, I don't mean to be like essentialist here about who enjoys what? Like my husband is obsessed with Love Island. That's how I got into the show. You know, he's in more group chats than I am about it. and he likes sports too. I think that There are lots of people who like both of these things, and yet the fandoms are super gendered. And that's kind of I would kind of push back on that in that I Part of why I'm doing this kind of, it's not a bit, but this kind of ongoing conversation of like loveve Island and spports are the same is because I do think there is a gender bias, but I think it is much less than people think. Like the amount of people watching Love Island who are b is not ten percent. L it is certainly a bigger percentage than that. Every time a sports leeague releases information of like, here's our viewership numbers. It is almost fifty fifty. Like, there are women watching sports, there are men watching Love Island. Why are these two things valued differently And why are they being put into these like weird gendered boxes is an important question. I mean, like, I hosted a podcast for a long time called Normal Gossip. I wrote a book about gossip. and during it, I would always make this joke with men at bars where I would say, Ohh yeah, I'm working on a book about gossip. and they would say, o, I don't care about gossip. And I would be like, that's so crazy. Did you hear that Patrick Mahomes broke his leg? And they would be like, what And I would be like, well, whoa, well, it seems like you do care about gossip. And for the record, Mahomes did not break his leg, but this is a great example though that illustrates your point. You've just pigeonholed an entire section of your experience of the world into a gendered box and said, I don't want to have any part of that And what' it's so limiting. like you're limiting your entire life by doing that. And like I do think we do that with both sports and reality TV. We say like, oh, that's for boys And it's like, what if you like it? Right? What if you want to go over there and shotgun a beer and like have a little wild time with your friends? What if you like it? You might, right? Like what if you like Love Island? What if you want to sit in front of your TV and discuss whether or not leaning towards someone is an act of aggression towards someone in your couple, R? Like thoseose are both really fun activities to do like on their own. It doesn't have to be this kind of like strong wall between them. I love that I mean, I love your optimism. The one time that I was in a fantasy football league, it was My entire group of girlfriends who were just yeah, hardcore football fans. and so many of them were, I was the only one who wasn't. that if I wanted to hang out You needed to I had to join the playall literally. Yeah. But I also think that like, There's a whole lot of historical issues with just like who allowed to play sports at what level, how they're covered. I mean, the WNBA really had to have like a huge pop culture moment to be seen as important is it to our culture as it is now. And I am speaking about all of this from like a place of true optimism, right? whichich is that like I believe in Having fun, I believe in community, I believe in high fing strangers. And I think that all of these things allow us to do that. like obviously The corruption in sports, with money, with gender, with violence, with all of these things is rampant in America. You could also ask a ton of ethical questions about what's happening on Love Island, right? Like These are not morally pure activities for you to do in your free time, but they are fun And I think that is a kind of like question that is also interesting to answer, right? Friends who are women and non binary people who watch football and care about it. We have really interesting questions every year of like At what point Would you stop, right? Like what would it take? Yeah? And like, I ask myself the same question with love vid sometimes where I'm like, how many feet have to be licked before I'm like, that's enough, like Theet looking the introduction of like serious repeated feet looking this season. I'm not sure if it's what you intended, but And that is the one thing we have to say about Bryce. The one bad thing we have to say about Bryce is that he started this. He loves feet. Exactly. He loves feet, He loves feet. All this is reminding me of like a conversation that I see happening a lot on social media, which is When Standamars, like top girl Standamars get too deep and people are like We have to make sports less homophobic and misogynistic in Txas because The swwifty mind. should be following baseball They They should be the people leading the Fantasy Leagues where everything is on a whiteboard and written in pencil by hand. Yeah. And the thing is, some of them are. I follow a few people online that are like swwifty hive mind and they are also Philadelphia Affiliies fans. and they post things sometimes that I'm like, girl. Do you have a job Well, Kelsey, this was a joy. Thank you so much for talking me. This is like, you're talking about my twoam favorite things right now. Thank you. It's so fun. I love talking about fun stuff That was Kelsey McKinney, staff writer and co owner at Dfector dot comot This episode of It's Bit a Minute was produced by Liam McBain. This episode was edited by Nina Potud. Our supervising producer is Sher Vincent. Our executive producer is Barton Girdwood. Our VPA programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right That's all for this episode of It's Bitter Minute from NPR. I'm Brittney Luz. Talk soon