Testimony of the Gaza flotilla detainee

This is a Global Player original podcast Good morning. It is three minutes after ten and you probably don't need me to tell you what unfolded on the streets of. The United Kingdom last night. You can glance at a television screen to see burnt out cars and burnt out homes U It is and it's a word that we've used before, but very, very carefully because it's such a redolant word. It's such a it's such a resonant word. it's such a horrible word But the word is Pulkron When people entirely innocent people are identified by violent, even murderous mobs, precisely because of their ethnicity or their religion or their Immutable characteristics, a violent organized riot or mob attack directed against a specific ethnic religious or national minority I Guess there's an argument to be made for this not being specific enough to qualify as a Pgrom. It is simply being a foreigner or being a dark skinned immigrant that painted a target on your back in Belfast last night, just as was the case during the Farage riots last summer when of course, a woman subsequently fated on stage at the Reform UK confference literally called for a pokegrong called for people to be burnt in their beds, but of course forriage will be popping up soon to get his toes tickled in various studios. In fact, I'm surprised nobody's invited him to do an Ear Satz version of Desert Island discs so far after the latest ludicrous lies about him being somehow banned from that program Unfortunately, I've realized when I say things like that In twenty twenty six, I have to had a quick yet. So unfortunately, no Tummy ticklers have invited Nigel Farrish to record an Earthat version of Desert Island diss while buying into the lie that he's been banned from the actual program D. And this morning there is a piece in one of your newspapers by me, which was filed at three o'clock yesterday and which appears under the headline. Farage's ugly newew narrative will tear the UK apart, explaining how the shift from pretending to be concerned about immigration statistics to attempting to malign everybody of colour, everybody of colour is now well underway and coming close to irreversible. Let me show you how it works because History, of course, teaches us when you start identifying people as being a problem by dint of their ethnicity or their background rather than their behaviour The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months It is very difficult for the alien to escape the vigilance of the police and port authorities. Even if aliens manage to break through the defenses, it is not long before they are caught and deported U And this of course refers to a judge speaking in nineteen thirty eight about Jewish people in this country, in a courtroom in this country, it gets worse. I'll sure the rest of it with you shortly Actually it doesn't, I can share it with you now Whether it's aliens in nineteen thirty eight or illegals in twenty nineteen when I last brought that quote to your attention or twenty twenty six when I'll remind you of it now This is not happening by accident. People are calling for it Stephen Yaxley Lennon is in this is going to make you bolt up right if you're not already aware of it Stephen Yaxley Lennon is currently in Moscow with Elon Musk's father Elon Musk's father, of course, probably best known for impregnating his own stepdaughter And Stehen Yaki Lennon on social media yesterday owned by Elon Musk calling for violence or at least calling for riots. and Elon Musk has called for violence on the streets of our country And violence directed not at. I don't know what words you prefer, scumbags Not at the scumbags who have committed crime Because nobody defends them. noobody welcomes that. noobody excuses that sort of behavior But you don't attack. I don't attack you because of something you've done by someone you've never met I don't I don't attack. yourour house. because A criminal you've never heard of committed a crime hundred yards away yesterday. It's insane what we are witnessing. abbsolutely insane, but it is Unfortunately Real This is from one jon list on the ground near the Shank Hill Road last night. On a residential street draped in loyalist flags near Belfast Shankhill Road, the masked manen approached a house with a boarded up window and a security camera stationed outside. As a woman from an ethnic minority background, look down from an upstairs window Some of the men rushed to the front door and broke it down With the air thick with smoke from fireworks, they attacked the downstairs window with bricks As they stormed the property, some claimed to be liberating it Graffiti nearby demanded local homes for local people. A woman in the crowd said to her friend There's we girls inside Nearby a car was set on fire chaos unfolded, a man in a skull face mask told onlookers to put their phones away Helicopters circled overhead and two police officers looked on from their car nearby, as smoke billowed towards The sky. I'll say it again. Absolutely everybody condemns the man responsible for the hideous scenes that we witnessed or saw online. and on our screens from Belfark, literally nobody defends him. But if you extrapolate from him and from his behavior conclusions about anybody else then you might as well say that everybody in Belfast is running around wearing a skull face mask setting fire to ethnic minority homes. That extrapolation, that collective punishment is precisely the point of attempts to conflate criminality by one person with everybody After the Southport killings, a crime committed by one person was somehow laid at the door of innocent people hundreds of miles away, staying in repurposed hotels After Henry Novak was killed, the experience of Sikhs in this country worsened immeasurably almost overnight that the attempts by people and I don't need to keep telling you who they are, but the attempts by people to conflate a criminal with an entire community are as old as humanity itself. we saw in Germany during the nineteen thirties, it led to pogroms and then it led to the Holocaust because a pogrom, make no mistake is simply One step on the road towards much, much worse things. Once one is allowed the rest will follow Speaking of Stepven Yaxley Lennon and Listen, there's no phon in to be had about the crime itself. A because someone's been charged, which means there's nothing we can say about it. and B because whatever you might be reading on Elon Musk's social media, everybody condemns it and everybody hates it. I can even understand how. a carefully cultivated position feeds into the idea that it could somehow have been prevented if we didn't allow any refugees into the country whichich in a way is technically true. So I don't even have particular beef with people who've been lulled into that School of thought. I mean, it's effectively equivalent to saying we could eradicate crime altogether if we abolished human beings Because guess what primary school teachers Horrible crime School caretakers commit horrible crimes. Family doctors commit horrible crimes. Owners of football clubs commit horrible crimes I Papricorns commit horrible crimes. Milktman commit horrible crimes Sagitarians commit. I mean, every single however you choose to define a community whether you're defining fans of Kiddamminster Harrier's foootball cllub or refugees, whatever desescriptors you choose to lump us into a group There will be people in that group who do terrible things. There will be people in just about every imaginable group. I was taught by monks to my school days Some of those monks did terrible things things so terrible that at my school, they're no longer allowed anywhere near the boys all monks. I Peder f be the logical conclusion of the kind of rhetoric that we're seeing from the usual suspects today. Homes, listen, I'm a radiop phone in her Every single day I talk about the news And in recent years, a lot of the news has been heading in a direction that all decent people find hideous But there are some days where you just need to stop and repeat yourself again and again and again. Homes were set alight. in the United Kingdom yesterday in apparent response to a hideous crime. committed by one hideous person Homes were set alight in the United Kingdom yesterday. Homes of people who had never met peretror the alleged peretator, homes of people who had never met the criminal, homes of people who until yesterday like you and like me, didn't know that the perpetrator even existed, D didnn't know that the criminal even existed. The homes of people who couldn't have told you his name at this time yesterday and couldn't tell you his name today. Homes of people who had absolute nothing to do with what happened Belfast yesterday After the Southport killings, the homes The communities of people who had absolutely nothing to do the killings of four little girls in Southport were attacked they were set fire to. The police attempting to protect civilians and citizens from a rampaging violent mob dancing to the tune. of racist provocateurs, some of whom are now in Parliament They got attacked. they got things thrown at them Police came under attack in Southampton, last week after the footage, the hideous footage emerged, the unbearable heartbreaking footage emerged of Henry Novak being handcuffed and disbelieved by police. after he had been the victim of what would quickly become They murder But the judge and the father of the victim and the pathologist And the prosecution lawyer all laid out benefit of anybody interested in knowing what happened all laid out the facts And then people chose to ignnore the fact Pople chose to expressly ignore the facts in the hope of whipping up precisely the sort of violence that we saw in Southampton last week. and that we saw in Belfast last night This shouldn't. be Dicult The person responsible for a crime is the perpetrator Whatever you think about immigration in general or refugees in particular, the idea that they are all responsible or all to be held accountable or all to be punished for the actions of an individual are ridiculous. The monster who killed Henry Novak was not an immigrant He was no more an immigrant than Nigel Farag's children are immigrants. They both have immigrant parents An immigrant parent person who killed The little girls in Southport was not an immigrant And even if he was, it wouldn't matter because it wouldn't say anything about immigration The fact that any more than a monk says anything about all monks or a Capricorn says anything about all Capricorns. Or that story last week that I told you nobody would mention And I wish I'd been wrong. I to spend my life at the moment wishing I'd been wrong. Imagine writing an article att three o'clock yesterday, explaining how Farage was priming the fuse was lighting the blue touchpaper for effectively pogroms in this country and then watching the footage from Belfast last night. But the story last week about the Saudi Arabian student in Cambridge who was stabbed to death entirely unprovoked has received practically zero column inches because The vicious killer was white and the victim was brown. But I don't draw conclusions about everybody white in Cambridge any moreore than I draw conclusions about everybody who takes cocaine as the perpetrator reportedly did which u brings us back to Stepvenen Yaxley Lennon, who is in Russia with Elon Musk's father, Praising Russia while calling for violence on the streets of the United Kingdom Praising Russia while calling for violence on the streets of the United Kingdom, protecting our women. while hanging out with a man who impregnated his own stepdaughter Twice And Elon Musk is on your social media calling for violence onn the streets of Britain, notot only calling for violence on the streets of Britain Calling for unprovoked violence, explaining that if you don't fight First, then you will somehow be a victim as if everybody who is Sudanese or everybody, who is Sikh or everybody who is Muslim or everybody who is black or everybody who is brown or everybody who is Chinese or everybody who is French or everybody who is German, as if every single one of them is possessed of exactly the same mindset as the other one, and they are all defined by the worst examples of that kind It's it's, I mean, it's But you know, they even found The blke who Musk is amplifying at the moment is And this is another element of the stories that are unfolding at the minute that is Unbelievable. There's a website account. I'm not going to tell you what it's called, but I'll tell you that at the moment Elon Musk is amplifying it Some hours after they posted, Elon Musk was always right, You either fight back or you die. They've even found that that account is completely bogus It's u It's someone based in India who is a crypto scanner. He uses his online activity to draw potential victims into his crypto scam There are many counts of dodgy crypto out there, but this one happily doesn't sit in British Parliament refusing to answer questions About a secret five million pound gift he received from a crypto billionaire shortly before announcing policies that would be to the enormous benefit of crypto Billionaire M It's hard to know what question to ask today It's hard to know what question to ask today But I think be questestion is Why does Elon Musk Want race wars on the streets of the United Kingdom You either fight back or you die. How do you fight back against someone who's been arrested? How do you fight back against someone who's in jail Answer that where you set fire to the homes of completely innocent people. listen, I could be wrong. Maybe you've got another answer to that question. How' do you fight back to against someone who's in jail So the two perpetrators, one alleged, one convicted, of the two crimes that have prompted Potential and actual pogroms on the streets of our country, our country, my country, your country, Pgroms on the streets of our country in twenty twenty six. The two crimes that have prompted it have already secured one conviction, one life sentence for murder and one arrest in the other case. There is no perpetrator at large. How do you fight back against that? How do we fight back against Ian Huntley How do we fight back against Fred West? How do we fight back against Harold Shipman? How do we fight back against it? Because if you don't fight back, you die How' do you fight back against people who were in prison You don't do You can see this. Where do you direct your pure cold rage if the person responsible for the thing that you're furious about is already serving a life sentence Where do you direct your pure cold rage about a crime whose perpetrator has already been convicted and jailed. Is that a rhetorical question Do we all know the answer to that You direct your pure cold rage at people who look like the criminal, James I don't know how many days away we are from Hearing them say that bit out loud, but at the moment it's a whistle, right? It's a dog whistle. Unless you've got a different answer How do you fight back against people who are in prison Where do you direct your pure cold rage about a crime committed by somebody who has been convicted and jailed But what exactly is the target here? Because when somebody is killed who isn't white or somebody commits a murder who is white, none of these comments ever really appear. We're never told how do we fight back against Sarah Everard's killer we don't, because Nigel Farris told us when Sarah Everroard was murdered, Oh, we mustn't blame all men and we mustn't blame the police But when Henry Novak is murdered, we blame all immigrants. We blame all Sikhs, we well, not all immigrants Not the mother of his children, but you know, the brown ones Sarah Everrod gets murdered and that man says don't blame the police. donon't blame all men Henry Novak gets murd and remember ten years ago People with names like Novak were a problem People with names like Novak were undermining British values. with names like Novak were storming our borders and taking over our country. Ten years later That ship has sailed. And all of the brown faces that possibly were born here or that have arrived here as a direct consequence of the huge holes left in our economy by Brexit. All of those faces have become the enemy. and I mean all of them whether they realize it or not, even the ones that appear on platforms with him. Even the Sikhs that used to go on EDL marches are in the firing line now. mate Tommy, Stehven Yaky Lennon, the serial criminal and great friend of Elon Musk's father, who is best known for impregnating his own stepdaughter, Hhtag Protect our Wen. They're in the firing line now It isn't about logic. It isn't about o they're all right, or you're okay It's about finding something awful and pretending people who have nothing to do with it are responsible and punishing them accordingly As a woman from an ethnic minority background looked down from an upstairs window Some of the men rushed to the front door and broke it down The air thick with smoke from fireworks, they attacked the downstairs window with brick. As they stormed the property, some claimed to be liberating Graffiti nearby demanded local homes for local people A woman in the crowd said to her friend,th's we girls inside. What has that got to do with the savagery we saw on the streets of Belfast What has that got to do with anything except programs a desire to punish everybody of a certain background, a certain ethnicity, a certain appearance to the actions of An individual I said to you during the there is a Northern Irish angle to this that we will explore. But not first and not foremost. I mean I don't wouldn't describe it as constituting good news necessarily but there is a particular Um perspective here that is Northern Irish. These are almost certainly loyalist gangs that are always on the lookout for this sort of opportunity. It's not I mean it's usually Catholics that are on the receiving end of it. but there I mean, I'll explain more about that shortly. but I don't think that's the key issue here. The key issue is Fascists in skull masks going door to door, pulling migrants out of their homes and then setting those homes on fire Why does Elon Musk wantont have seen these sorts of scenes on Sam Friedman, one of my favourite writers, I've told you many times, his sububstack is required reading puts it best, as he often does. Everyone on X and elsewhere who called for a violent response should be charged with incightement Everyone involved in the pogram should be locked up with exemplary sentences. Government should make it clear will be the response in future anywhere else, enough. There is no more about this is no more about the details of immigration policy than the poggrroms my great great grandparents fled were about Jews committing crimes It's a straightforward, it's straightforward racist violence and it needs the strongest possible Rpond Why does Elon Musk want straightforward racist violence on our streets zero three four five sixzero six zer nine, seven, three y He signed up Yaxley Lennon to whip up these mobs They put out loads of calls last night for gatherings, but it was done in such a characteristically half baked way that some of the places that they called for people to gather didn't even exist and others were inaccessible to the public. That's what happens when you use AI. to try to start poggroms. But u But why ero three four five six zero six zero nine seven three is the number you need You know, that article I quoted you from nineteen thirty eight, it even talks about backdoors Which the people who didn't understand Northern Ireland when they called for Brexit and don't understand it now when they start talking about backdors are already doing The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage I intend to enforce the law to the fullest. In these words, Mr. Herbert Metcar. The Old Street magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the probleblem to w, Wait for it, The Daily Mail repeatedly pointed. It's almost a hundred years ago nineteen thirty eight. The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. Oh yes because they're criminals It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities And pograms in Germany were already underway. That's what these poor people are running away from I don't know what people in Belfast who may or may not be recent arrivals were running away from. I don't know what the ones who were refugees were running away from, but they've run straight into violence, they've run straight into horrors. And I think the crucial point for me this morning is the fact that It has been called for It has literally been called for. It is being promoted. It is being advertised, it is being provoked. It is being promulgated on social media, particularly on Elon Musk's platform formerly known as Twitter and he the owner is joining in. And I want you to tell me why I remember telling you some time ago, I'm not going to take a call before the news. sorry Um To say no. But if you want to be first on after the news, the number you need is zero three four five, six zero six zero nine seven three. and the question I want you to answer is why does Elon Musk want this? That's all Why does he want this? You probably know more about it than I do All I know is that shortly before I left his platform I was almost deluged. by footage of crimes being committed by people of colour didnn't matter where they were It didn't matter what the background was, it didn't matter what the context was. if the criminal was dark skinned and violent. It was being pushed to a degree that I didn't understand then and I don't understand now Why on earth would somebody who has no interest in watching that sort of thing be delused by it You know? whyy because it was being deliberately put in front of people. Again, as with adolescence, art sometimes does a better job than journalism. And if you watch Tiiptoe, the new Russell T. Davis drama on channel four, you'll see what's happening to David Morris's character as he watches. an increasingly unleavened diet of online violence, carefully cultivated, engineered to convince him that The gays or the foreigners are all the enemies And it's happening on the thing that you've got in your pocket It's happening on the thing that you've got in your pocket It's not only being used to create fake images of child sexual abuse, it's being used to ferent race war. It's being used to provoked precisely the sort of activities that we saw on the streets of Belfast last night Twitter is being used to create this nightmare scenario And one of the key The creators of it is currently in Moscow with the owner's father, a man best known for impregnating his own stepdaughter. Tice Howash to protect our women Why? I hope this isn't a silly question But I don't know the answer. Why? Why would the richest man in the world want to see Pilgrims on the streets of the United Kingdom Unless of course and absolutely you are welcome to explain to me that he doesn't. When he says, you have to fight back brackets against people in prison closed brackets by attacking people not in prison. I don't know. maybe That isn't what he's calling for and he promotes these messages and these people What y? Why does he want it? Hit the numbers now you will get through. It's half past ten, and Dominic Kllis has your headlin It is ten thirty four and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC Do you ever sort of think that You Well, you must think I must be wrong. I must be wrong because It's so obviously. Bad The fact that they're doing it means I must be missing something. Is that a sort of warped form of modesty A form of intellectual modesty, not something I'm often accused of Kir Stahmer has posted a condemnation of these scenes in Belfast last night. He has plenty of people will either not know this or more importantly, perhaps pretend not to know this. Yesterday already posted I mean an unstinting condemnation of the scenes that were filmed And he stuck it on X The scenes in Belfast last night were shocking and completely unacceptable, said the Prime Minister on a platform owned by a man who As far as I can tell and I'm open to persuasion called for them I'll say that again because I am The scenes in Belfast last night were shocking and completely unacceptable, said the Prime Minister, on a platform owned by a man who called for them And his father is currently hanging out in Moscow with Stevenen Yaxley Lon That's what it comes down to, he posted yesterday. Elon Musk was always right. You either fight back or you die. this while the Pgrams were unfolding. As Sunda Catwaller puts it, he has been openly arguing for the value and necessity of violence in the UK against migrants and minorities as an existential threat for nine months He has now doubled down on it during a dangerous and heightened back a couple of years. Aually less than a year. It is time for the English to ally with the hard men like Tommy Robinson A man so hard he doesn't even use his real name in public and fight for their survival or they shall surely all die That's from two years ago almost twenty ninth of october, twenty twenty five, two million views in its first hour. And what does Kiss Armor do posts his condemnation on the platform that the blloke owns This isn't the phone in. The phone in is why does Elon Musk want pograms on British streets Oh three four five, six zero six zero nine seven three But it may be that we need to talk about this as well There is no justification for the violence and disorder brackets trly called for by the owner of the platform upon which I'm posting this condemnation that we saw threatening our communities, not for those who encouraged it online or elsewhere. Am I losing the plot entirely Or is this like getting on a bus to condemn buses It is clear that people were targeted last night because of their background and I will not tolerate it, said the Prime Minister on a platform owned by a man calling for it Those responsible will feel the full force of the law I've spoken to the chief Constable of the Well, who who is responsible for it? The perpetrators or the provocators Y Lenin is living it up with Elon Musk's dad in Moscow. while his mugs I' getting in jailed The mugs who answered his call to arms in Southampton last week are getting locked up at a rate of nots, while he's sipping negronies with Elon Musk's father, best known for impregnating his own stepdaughter, twice hashtag save our women Protect our girls and hashtag He's living it up Singing Vladimir Putin's praises in a nine star Moscow hotel with Elon Musk's father while his Mugs is Ms His victims, his customers, his sponsors I' getting jailed for answering his call to arms in Southampton and the Prime Minister has gone on the platform owned by the bloke that's picking up Yaxley Lennon's legal bills to condemn the violence that they've both called for. As I said, that's the annglo I' expecting pursue this morning, but it's bonkers, right We have to get on there in order to get our message to people Why does Elon Musk want pgrims on the streets of the United Kingdom And why the is the Prime Minister using his platform to condemn them I think you might be able to answer the first question, I'm not sure anybody can answer the second Joe's infullam, Joe, what would you like to say I think it's a radical white supremacist agenda, and I do think they are trying to stoke up such division in our country that it leads to civil war R? Because I can't imagine you're going to have, I live in London, I'm black. I can't imagine you're going to have white thgs kicking down doors in my area, expecting to attack ethnic minorities and people don't fight back I mean, have you met ethnic minorities lately? We've been so steeped in this for so long. Of course we're going to fight back. It will be ugly It's disgusting. If someone kicked down my door, Dames, if someone kicked down your door tomorrow With your kids inside and your wife, you'd be on it. Right? So this is what they're trying to do, raaise it to the ground and then build it up in their own image. What image is that? What image is that? do you think? I mean, because I like mle image That's what it is. You've got to think about Elon Musk's psychology, right? He was raised in a society that was buuilt on the necks and the backs of black Africans Right? And during his time that was completely turned around R And they feel that the rug was pulled from under them. This is not This is not a lovely dovey household of affection and comfort and kindness. Like you say, his dad whatever happened between him and his stepdaughter, Elon Musk doesn't even have a good relationship with his father, right? None of it was love. It was heinous, it was evil, it was wicked. That's what was going on inside his home. He doesn't have love in his heart or any of that goodness. He wants to end things endnd things the way that they are now and turn back the clock. That's what he wants to do. I mean I guess it's the clash, isn't it of psychology and logic because everything you say makes quite a lot of sense. beinging uprooted from the country he grew up in and having it blamed on black people, presumably, I don't know the circumstances of his childhood, but his father isn't exactly what you'd call an obvious role model. best known for having impregnated his own stepdaughter twice. Ely One of my correspondents puts it thus, Catharsis for that brainwashed boy who had to leave his home at a young age. He was repeatedly told over and over by a psychotic abuser that white people had natural dominion over blacks and that the world order comes to an end when the blacks achieve dominance themselves, they're all being held hostage by a deeply unwell wreckage of a man And then you give him all the money in the world, and then you give him all the power. You sit him next to Donald Trump in the Oval House. He becomes best friends with Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farad and the AFE. What do you think this man is going to do It's never going to be good for anyone but him and people who look like him that he likes at that moment So what does it look like? I mean, is that a silly question because we're talking For me, this looks like a world where I don't live in the UK. So what does the world he wants look like? Oh'm sorry, you are answering that question, I think. want He wants a world where people like him are on top and people who are not like him are underneath him. whether that's women, whether that's people with disabilities, whether that's ethnic minorities, whether that's people who don't have as much money, whether that's people who aren't as smart. Right? He doesn't want them anywhere near him and he doesn't want them anywhere near any kind of power or control or influence He doesn't want it. It doesn't make sense to him. It's a mad thing, isn't it? I mean, it's almost biblical. You can be the richest man in the world and still It miserable It's only mad if you weren't raised in his household. You're raised in your household, you're raised in my household. We think this stuff is crazy. but we know that you go to Asia, you get all types of people. you go to Africa, you get all types of people. You go to Europe, you get all types of people. He doesn't know that. He literally thinks there's something in the genes of people who aren't like him Pent Right? And therefore he wants them gone. therefore he wants them somewhere else, therefore he wants them with nothing. You've got to get into his mindset hisis mindset. It's not your mindset, it's his mindset It's scary, right? Of course I don't I don't mean I mean, I kind of don't want to use that word. I want to find it ridiculous, but it wasn't my house that was set fire to last night. can't you can't fight that with funny. Can you No, no, absolutely not. This is what I was going to say. I'm three generations deep ethnic minority in this country and I now have children. We are moving. if Nigel Farad gets been backed by people like these. We are gone. I've already applied for our passports elsewhere. and I'm not the only one. I have teacher friends, I have lawyer friends, I have doctor friends. I am a doctor. We are going. because if someone bangs down my door and comes after me and my kids, then I'm going to go to jail. Bet I just get up and go now becausecause I mean, I think the BBC report is one that I haven't read out yet. quoting the MP for one of the Belfast MPs, the leader of the SDLP. What you're seeing is a race based pogrom. We are seeing men going door to door asking to get the foreigners out based exclusively on the colour of their skin It's not based on what they're contributing to society, what their status here is, and it's terrifying for people in Belfast who want this sort of politics to be far beyond them. That's Claire Hannah the leader of the Social Democratic and Labour Party. and I guess It's a bit of white privilege kicking in because part of me wants to say no, they don't mean you, Joe You read that they're going door to door asking to get the foreigners out based exclusively on the color of their skin, not how long they've lived here, not where their parents grew up, not what they contribute to society, not what their role is, not what they do, not who they are. But what they are, then that is your door O that. But you know what one of the saddest things is before I go? One of the saddest things is that I have so many white friends. I grew up in West London in Greenford in the nineteen eighties, so many white friends. And now I wonder how many of them sympathize. That must be awful. That must be absolutely awful. And Facebook sometimes provides a glimpse or an insight into how many quotes, sympathize, end quotes, but it's never going to provide the full picture. And those are the people who would say I don't mean you They all I don't mean you. I mean, because they don't just mean the criminals either. That's easy. We can all agree on that There's no punishment strrong enough for Henry Novak's killer. There's no punishment, strong enough for people. enacting savagery on the streets of Belfes. We can all agree about that but some people want to punish you You And and it makes no sense. Well think we lost the phone line. We' maybe just let her come back and finish that point. The time now is ten forty five ten forty eight, how dod you fight back against someone in prison Where do you direct your pure cold rage about a crime committed by someone who has been convicted and sentenced to life in jail These are really important questions that you're unlikely to hear asked on Ursat's versions of desesert Island discs designed to tickle the tummy of the man who is unleashing levels of inter community violence in this country, the likes of which we rarely but not never see Where do you direct your pure cold rage about a crime? committed by someone who's already in prison How do you fight back against someone who's already in custody Answer that's not what they want, is it And they've told us. I mean, you know, it's not even debatable. I don't even think it's one to run by the lawyers. They've told us. Elon Musk has told us that this is what he wants. El know Musk has told us that you either fight back or you die It's time for the English to ally with all the hard men Tommy Robinson serial criminal Friend of his dad, best known for impregnating his own stepdaughter. twwice, hashtag Protect our women. And it's there. You have to go out and attack immigrants because otherwise they will attack you. And I don't know that the mobs that we saw in Belfast last night would actually have needed much encouragement, to be honest with you. It's a feeile environment at the best of times, but the fact is it could spread. It spread last summer. desesperate attempts to make it spread last night posted from a Moscow hotel where Yaxi Lenin is currently ot his snout in the trough with Elon Musk's father. Um But they want it. and I want you to tell me why. Moe' in Birmingham, Mo, why does the richest man in the world want Pggroms in Belfast I'm I know one thing about Elon Musk in my opinion. He has He will do anything to anyone that impinges on his ability to make money. I don't think you don't don't I don't agree with Well, I mean, I don't disagree with you But I don't think that's what this is about He's losing money on Twitter, but he must be losing full millars on Twitter. Twitter, Twitter is his tool to Bend governments to his will to dictate which way elections run to amplify the sort of message that he wants. And I personally think he there will be an aspect of right wing white supremacism in his philosophy from the fact that he was greatly molded by apartheid area South Africa. I do not doubt that plays apart in there But everything I look at him, and I see a man that actually has very little ideology. and I'll run through a couple of examples ye He was happily willing to turn on Trump when Trump was threatening to put a load of tariffs on exports that Tesla got from China. Okay. And on the flip side, he was happy to support Trump when you know Trump was looking to get you know, elected back as president in America. Okay. The alternative thing here and He I think sees this current labour government Kir Star's Labour goverment as someone that does not is not favorraable to what he wants to do in terms of business here in the UK, and he will use all tools Available to him and Twitter is a great tool there for him to sort of bend this Labour government to his will I mean, there's a lot of moving parts here. so the idea of Yeah, but what if it's not about the money? See, here's a thought which hadn't occurred to me before. What if the bogus narrative of our freedom of speech being somehow compromised by the Labour government, an accusation that's regularly lelled at us by members of Donald Trump's administration who literally have a hit list of journalists on their own website and have orchestrated the removal of journalists from news organisations and late night entertainment shows for having the audacity to criticize the president. So I mean, leaving aside the epic hypocrisy of that, what if What if Musk's motivation in pretending and lying about us having a free speech issue is not about actually ensuring that the money taps stay on and not un resisting regulation that would that would cost him money. It's about ensuring that he's still got Twitter in its current form to insight precisely the sort of behavior that we saw last night. So he doesn't really care about the money side of Twitter. That's not where his money comes from Twitter is his loud haler It's the loud haler through whichit his white supremacism since he bought it and brought back the biggest racists in recent British history and amplified them and promoted them and paid them He wants Twitter to be unregulated and U uncensored because he wants the racist lies to be louder than the truth and and he needs the racist lies to be louder than the truth in order to incite the sort of violence that we saw last night. So that is why bogus narrative of free speech being under threat is being enforced by him and by JD Vance and by others think I think look, at this moment of timeim here, he has he perceives and I'm not going to call them racist for the fact could be libeless and so on. He perceives at the moment that people like Nigel Farage, there I say Kemby Badnock or you know, Rupert Lone. are more business friendly to what he wants to do theK. I don't think that's true. I wish you were right almost, because it's digestible the commercial imperative Primacy of profit is easy to swallow, but white supremacist violence is not it doesn't make sense. You're trying to make sense of it It I don't think it's got anything to do with business. I think the business is the loudhaler. It's not about the Benjamins. It's not about the revenues, it's not about anything except. He looked at Twitter And he saw what happened when ordinary people are in charge of potentially mass media. and he hated it because it wasn't racist and it wasn't promoting hatred and it wasn't pretending to believe that being white is somehow Bet than being brown or being black. It wasn't enforcing all of the weird beliefs and prejudices and bigotries and hatreds that define his character. It was making him feel ashamed So he bought it and turned it into a reflection of his own warped soul I'll say one thing as a devil's advocate here. We agree he's a businessman who loves making money. Yeah but I don't think that's got anything to do with the conversation that we have. Let's continue on then with this narrative He. obviously has ridden his horse on the right wing White supremacism here He's a bright guy, I think. He must o He must mustest of a diabolical genius, mustn't he? He talks about his love of history and whatever else and looks back on everything. What it is mind thinks that white supremacism is going to deliver in prosperity Nothing. He doesn't care about the prosperity of it. I meanest I honestly think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one. But as I always say on the programe, I could be wrong. I mean, people made huge fortunes out of Nazism, of course, the ones that were in place. If you give five million quid to a politician secretly, then you sit back, hope for that politician to become prrime Minister. And even though you're already super rich, you're going be super super, super,ga, meega mega, mega rich by the time he is no longer Prime Minister. But I just don't see Musk in that category. You can't be richer than the richest man in the world. And he's already the richest man in the world. I think he's using his money to drive an entirely different part of his appetites. It's the desire to see Brown and black people suffer all of them includcluding the ones that are currently sharing platforms with the politicians that he sponsors and I just think of the Siks on the EDL March I'd actually just give me a ring if you're one of them Because how are you feeling now? You've seen where Yaxie Lannon stands on people like you, you're an invader mate Even if you've been on five EDL marches and sent all your wages to Stehven, you actually Lennon to U to get stuck into when he's staying in a Moscow hotel with Elon Musk's father, best known for impregnating his own stepdaughter, twice, hashtag prrotect our girls. I mean, I just I think I almost think you're being naive Mo, which isn't like you. I almost think that the financial argument here is utterly, utterly moot. I don't think it's got anything to do with what's going on I mean, there'll be some money made, some people promoting the footage, some people promoting the lies, the provocations will make a few quid. but not him it's not his fortune that is affected by these things. It's the fortunes of the people online, including The crypto scammer. based in India posting anti immigrant hatred all over Twitter and being promoted and amplified by Elon Musk, who could find the press of a button that the bloke he's amplifying is an Indian crypto scammer promoting racism on our streets. So there's not even a pretense of caring about the truth or about reality U I wonder what it is that I guess it is going to be the white S premis. So do we move, Thankk you, Mo, takeake care. Do we move the question then on to the blue sky element of it, the prrime Mister the Twitter element of it, the Prime Minister is posting his condemnation of pogroms that were called for by the owner of the platform that he's posting his condemnation on Lewis is in Malpassen in Chester. Lewis, what would you like to say Hi Dimes. good morning. Yeah I actually have to kind of echo what your last caller just said. and so you're probably going to shoot me down straight? No, I'm not going to shoot you down. I just think you're being a bit A bit naive. Well, I was going to just build on it a little bit because I think you're too kind of into the whole Twitter side of it, but I think these other businesses have bigger, bigger dreams, bigger pictures. And I think the whole culture war side of it. I don't think he really cares about that. I don't think it's a key driver to it. This is bad It too is I think it's very much a means to an end. Don't get me wrong. You think you're doing that yourself It background, etcer. It obviously plays some sort of part, but I think he sees the cultureward very much as a means to it end very much like Nigel Faragege, very much like Tommy Robinson. Well no, because they they get into Downing Street. actuallyually Lennon gets rich. What does Musk go out? So this can of now have to go into the background of American businessmen. C. So I'll leave you all of that for trail, but rememember, I'm not being patronizing. He is already the richest man in the world. Yeah No, I agree, But he also has bigger dreams of colonizing Mars, et ccera. So I think you need a lot more. And how does white supremacism advance those dreams? So it's about the destruction of Societies and things like that. So if you look at the past American history, well, not even that far back, but they go into various countries, South America, Middle East, et cetera. and they work off the basis of you destroy a country, you rebuild it. It's more profitable to do it that way. You move in American industry, you move in American businesses, you rebuild it, far more profitable in trying to look for opportunities to grow countries So you bankrupt them with loans, you bribbeed them et ceta, et ceta, eta. And yeah. didn' me to ring you up because it suddenly popped into my mind as you were speaking. in the Epstein files, funny enough, is be Big fan of bigig fan of Stehven, Yaxley Lenon Epstein. Big fan, huge P to protect our women Let take save our girlals Some of the Trump advisors and things like that about destroying the UK with Brexit and looking for opportunities within the engineering of Brexit to profit, right? So it' he said himself it's far more profitable to disrupt and dismantle. I mean, exactly. And that's what he's doing. So from a businessman perspective and the whole engineering of culture wars, etc. is means to an ends. Trump Trump doesn't really say much about him. I'm going to continue to disagree with you, but you M maybe making more sense to people listening than I am. and I'm veering dangerously close to prioritizing feelings over facts. but there's something about megalamania that you're missing, I think. It's something about white supremacism and meegalomania that Trump pardon the pun commercial interests, although you make a strong historical argument. I just I just think he really, really wants to see houses on fire in Belfast, Lewis, and not because of Mars or because of Starlink or because of Tesla He may well do, but I don't think he's there to set out a plan or a strategy behind that. I think that's more just the theatrics and the drama. He's paying other people's paying other people to do it, isn't he He's literally paying other people to ferent the violence, foment the violence and and call for the Pgram orrganizing more it's more organized chaos for a means. I don't think it's just Yeah, I mean I guess it's just an argument then about what the end is Is it some sort of apartheid era world Or is it just a world in which he gets to become even even richer? I suppose it could be both continue the conversation on that dichotomy, I suppose. I just don't buy it anymore. There's no earthly way paying way over the odds for Twitter. I mean, ultimately against his will, but he kind of tried to back out of it. I don't think it makes money. I presume it's still Hemorrhage's money He hated what it had become because it was reflecting humanity the so called silent majority, which is actually a very noisy minority, were being treated correctly. They were being banned for being racist. They were being banned for lying. They were being banned for supporting violence and spreading hatred. That's what civilized societies do. and he hated it. He hates civilized societies because civilized societies treat people Equally And they try treat the people that have being discriminated against A little better than they've been treated historically until things actually become equal Which actually poses a little question for you Did anybody count the number of hours that passed between Camy Badenot calling for all people to be treated the same by the police And Kemmy Badenock calling for black boys who are already disproportionately stopped and searched compared to white boys to be stopped and searched even more than they are already. Did it get into double figures before the same person that called for people to be treated exactly the same by the police called publicly for black boys to be treated differently than white boys by the police Did she get into double figures on the hours there orr was it less than Still still waiting for an answer to that question. How many actual hours elapsed between Kemmy Badenoch insisting that all people be treated the same by the British police and Kemy Badenoock calling for black boys to be stopped and searched even more than they are already, whichich is considerably more than white boys T to policing anybody It's insane, isn't it? But you have to keep pointing it out. seeven minutes after eleven is the time. Andy Hughes is in Belfast for LPC. We'll catch up with him before the end of the programme. and as things stand I'll also be speaking to the Sepor Jenarian former RAF pilot who was part of that. Flotilla. drawing attention to Israel's atrocities in Gaza who got incarcerated for his troubles That's a septogenarian former member, over seventy two year old man And he'll tell us exactly what happened to him in Israeli custody before the end of play today I think we will actually push the rest of the program or the rest of this hour, the next hour of the program towards Joe, who rang in And to the question of what it's like to be in this country in twenty twenty six when Men are going door to door dragging people out according to their skin colour and setting fire to them. And listen, I don't mind if you want to turn off the radio because I don't know what I'd do. in your position. I might not want to think about it. I might just want to look the other way for now and hope that it all blows over. Don't go anywhere near Twitter, whatever you do Rupert Low is now threatening to prosecute Robert Genrick and Sueell Le Braamman for allowing people into this country that is, I don't know, quite what words to use to describe the escalating madness of the far right in this country, but eventually the best you can hope for is that they'll all eat each other But I'm not black, I'm not brown. I mean, I'm fairly high on a hit list for these fascists, of course, but I'm not going to be there as a consequence of my skin color. I'm going to be there as a consequence of things which I can control I could just shut up and sit down now I could perhaps invite Nigel Farigjon to record a fake version of Desert Island discs as a way of both normalising his hatreds and also and pretending that his lies about being banned from it is true. I could just do that. I could do it now. We could put a call in, you know We did of course, issue last week a Um an invitation to him after one of my textters who hasn't really been paying attention. gave us the u gave us the idea that somehow we avoid a conversation with him, but we did hear back. I'll play that to you shortly But the The reality is that I'm white So it doesn't hit me like it hits you. I could hit Joe, and I should have done this sooner. I'm sorry I should probably have done it last week. I know that Sheila did and I didn't What's it like to be a Sikh at the moment What's it like to be a Sikh in this country at the moment. And I don't have an enormous amount of sympathy for you if you were on an EDL march a couple of years ago, but what's it like to be a sikh who thought you were all right? Be you were on the EDL marches and they were all slapping you on the back for being one of the decent ones? That hasn't exactly lasted, has it, lads When you are living in a country where they are going door to door asking The foreigners out based exclusively on the color of their skin, how does it feel to have dark skin Ohero three, four, five, six zero, sixzero, nine, seven, three is the number that you need. I don't see how we can't Avoid that question onn the streets of the United Kingdom, the pure cold rage that Nigel Farrid is calling for has called for and will call for again. The fighting back that Elon Musk wants against people who are already in jail involves masked men going door to door, dragging people out of their own homes because they have dark skin. And then setting fire to those homes Does it feel to be brown How does it feel to be black? zero three, four, five, sixz. I can't believe I'm having this conversation. How does it feel to be black in the land that Nigel built in Stephen Yaxley Lennon's world in this bizarre universe that has somehow, since those ridiculous flags started going up everywhere, seen the hatreds bigotaries and the ignorances that are promoted and amplified and celebrated on social media on Twitter in particular move into real life. It as if the masks have come off not literally of course. they're still wearing them in Belfast as they throw petrol bombs through the windows of homes inhabited by entirely innocent people. But u What's it like Joe did a job of telling us She's not going to stay if this direction I and I don't want to have this I don't want to have this conversation But we have to, right? We have to Ohero three four five, six zero six zero nine seven three because they're all doing it. And Kemmy Betenach responding to events yesterday by calling for I think actually to be fair, she called for more black boys to be stopped and searched before the events in Belfast where Bys were considerably more likely to be dragged out of their house and having it set on fire than anybody else was or brown boy I haven't got an answer yet to how many hours passed between her calling for everybody to be treated the same by the police and for black boys to be treated very, very differently from white boys, or even more differently than they already are But Joe'sool has hit me. Sometimes I have to get to a break Sorry if this is boring This so goes on in my mind when I'm live on the radio. Sometimes I have to get to a break and think back because I'm moving forward all the time. Thinking forward, what we've got to do? We've got to do this, we've got to do that. Oh we've got to play the response from Nigel Farage about my outstanding invitation to him to come and have a chat in the studio Oh come on if we do a fake desesert Island disc tonight, How about that? You could come on and pretend that you actually listen to music No. All right. Well the offer's open. the offer' open. And then I'd take a call like Joe's. And you know, I had the same conversation not long ago with Sid D Varsi, a Baroness home at Joint chair of the Conservative Party someomeone with whom I disagree on most things politically, but all things socially And she told me years ago, two or three years ago, she was worried about the direction of traffic and that they were, you know, and that people she knew I think including herself are contemplating making their life elsewhere, making their life somewhere else, just like the immigrant Elon Musk did I think after apartheid ended in South Afraba. he's an immigrant. There's a mad thing for you here Henry Novak's killer is not an immigrant and Elon Musk is And Elon Musk is calling for Aion against immigrants Elon Musk claimed that Henry Novak was killed by an imigrant Elon Musk is an immigrant Henry know thats killer isn't So what's it like to be brown it like to be black doctor Leaving the country After Brexit it was the white people. It was the white doctors It was the white Lorry drivers. It was people with names like Novak. that had been told they weren't welcome here anymore T years later, it's the brown people. It's the black people. Be it never bloody ends? does it? with the first target You don't need to be Martin Nimeler to understand that first they came for Polish Lorry drivers, the Romanian neighbours and I didn't do anything because I wasn't a Polish lorry driver, I wasn't a Romanian neighbour And then they came for The French psychologists, the German bankers and I didn't do anything because I wasn't a French psychologist and I wasn't a German banker. And then they came for the Nigerian doctors. whatever. And then they came for the Brits. Then they came for the brown British people And I D didn't do anything because I wasn't aown British person Then they came for me And there was nobody left to do anything In Britain, sorry, in the United Kingdom In twenty twenty six masked men are going door to door Dragging people into the street because their skin is dark. and then setting fire to their homes How does it feel in the United Kingdom in twenty twenty six to have the same or similar colored skin to those H Souls. It is eighteen minutes after eleven and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC. and it's a horrible question that I wish I didn't have to ask, but I do and I am. You woke up this morning or you went to bed last night, knowing that people were being dragged out of their homes in the United Kingdom in twenty twenty six for the crime of having dark skin Criminals acting at the behest of politicians in this country who continue to be fated in some studios the richest man in the world, whose platform has done more perhaps to foment this sort of violence and horror than anything else in our discourse But it's still the platform that Kirara condemns the violence on. That has got my blood boiling oddly because it's an odd thing Anyway I'm white come eventually for the Lfties, we saw that at Yaxley Lennon's last March, didn't we? Do you remember the woman who was removed from the crowd for looking like she'd once read a book But right now, it's my skin color It's skin color that matters. What's it like to be the same colour as the people whose homes are being set on fire for the colour of the inhabitant's skin Samantha's in E Ginstead. Samantha, what would you like to say Hello, James, than you for taking my call today. justust are the disgusted by what's going on the level the level of racism, it's not like it's happened overnight O you've got the media backings from Musk and all his friends Linux. this was all premeditated and you can you could feel it in the air as someone who is married to someone of African heritage I have kids with this fon as well. when we are constantly constantly being treated in an appalling way when we are together as a family whether it's to anywhere local or even into town It's absolutely shocking. the hatred that we have faced in the last year since Last summer, it's been very very intense and shocking You know, there was a lady in her fifties outside of a well known establishment who just went for my husband and he was s not a normal Normal lady. What did she do She She said the suit well I can't even say it it's so bad, but she said the su word. it was becausecause she's with a white woman or just because he's black purely because of his skin color and she said you cannot park here and you should not be here. we were at Hampton Court Palace, actually. and It was abs. He wasn't I mean I'm not being stupid, I hope. He wasn't parking in in a b disabled slot or anything like that. I know he wasn't. I just clarified. We had to double check where we had parked and it was perfectly fine where we were and because you second guess and you think, God, that level of hatred, that emotion, it's so strong and just so You know, it's it's ugly. how could this have happened? And then we went back to normality It took a few seconds and thought, No, this is a you problem, not an us problem. You look absolutely perfectly normal to us. However, you're carrying this hatred around And we just thought God your rage, at your rage, the fact that you are even speucing that kind of hate It must be normal for you and What are you telling your family members or your friends or around the dinner table? This is a collective thing. you are carrying this around with you day to day It was a lovely sunny day. How could you even leave the house with so much hatred in your heartb since then It's been nothing short of you know, whether it's to the gym or supermarkets, than is the racial views? toowwards my husband, we are with our kids, our boys and girls and we are facing this on a weekly basis, Day, we are not together you know, we are working But it's very scary as what's happening. And you know you've got the media backing this ideology as well as social media, not just, you know And that makes people I mean that radio and TV. that spares people from shame, I think. That word normalisation is overused a lot. I think I think often Samantha, I'm so sorry for what your husband, what your partner's going through, and of course what you were going through, and God knows what conversations you have to have with your children, and I wish I could tell you that I think it's about to get better, but I don't I really don't. and it's the so what you've got and a quick word, I think, probably on the specifics of what is going on in Belfast and the role, not by way of comfort because Samantha has just described The mecca of middle class. Southerners Hampton Court Palace being a place where you're not safe from racist abuse. But the history of loyalist gangs in Belfast is particular and specific. So a quick word on that from one of my most reliable correspondents, No Hostages You have to understand it's not just racism, it's loyalist terrorism The areas most associated with anti immigrant violence didn't emerge from nowhere parts of loyalism have been linked to paramilitary organizations involved in drug dealing, extortion, intimidation, pog roms and territorial control So when masked men organize violence and patrol neighborhoods and intimidate families and drive people from their homes Many Northern Irish people will recognize patterns that many English commentators and observers are unable to see. The message to English commentators is we must do better. It's this what we saw last night is an attempt by loyalist gangs partly an attempt by lawyer accounts to make themselves relevant. be targeting Catholics at other times it's Eastern Europeans, Africans, LGBT people or Muslims. Something else they have in common with Nigel Farrage, who has at various times gone after all of those groups. I think accept Catholics. But give the guy a chance By treating these riots solely as a reaction to immigration, some commentators launder the reputation of organisations that have spent decades. terrorising working class communities. so And I'll share that whole thread with you now on Blue Sky, which is the social media platform I use because it is not owned by someone who ferments poggroms on the streets of our country Jackson Hackney, Jack, what's it like to be the same colour as the people whose homes are now being set on fire in the United Kingdom 've gone beyond concerning and I think the point I just said to your producer was what value is my citizenship I'm a citizen here I'm from here My My citizenship feels like it's less, you know this whole idear that I can't walk freely or go places without always looking around my shoulder. I don't like being in certain environments. I don't like people coming up to me. I don't like people coming up to my car I know that Sadly It isn't there isn't a specific look it can be anybody anyime. I've had people come up and say the wildest things to me You know, I've spoken to you before. I work in education. I've had children Children say to me What are you can to do forformm gamame And I can boldly say in front of them, I'm not letting anybody. Anybody push me out of anything equally I have to be realistic I know that Back in the sixties, the seventies, the eighties, people in my community Deep defend themselves, some of them lost their lives. some of them were maimed life with injuries and some of them spent time in prison And one thing actually that comes to mind is A few years ago I went on holiday. I was I was on the African continent and James, I cannot begin to tell you how many bllack British people I've met And you hear a British accent, you strike up a conversation And I would say to them like, oh, why did you move here? And they were like, we're sick of racism and we know what's coming One woman at she She's like from a similar part of London, like we knew We knew mutual people and I'm just like Wow in the sixth richest country in the world One of the countries that are said to have you know, one of the greatest democracies and all that type of stuff, peopleople like me are moving out. We're getting passports for Jamaica, Kenya You know, Nigeria, whatever country it is And people are making their preparations. I know a lot of people that have kids that are saying the minute their kids hit eighteen, nineteen and are set up, we're out because we can't guarantee our safety anymore And it's I mean It's explicit now in ways that previously it was implicit. You might have feared what you describe and somebody else, possibly, even a radio presenter would have described you as playing the race card or exaggerating your worries. But it's explicit now. You know we will have mass deportations of people who have every right to be here has become a rallying cry for people who are in the public space. They're not excluded. they' not by dint of their disgusting conduct and their hideous views. They're not denied the oxygen of publicity. In fact they're fed it on an fathomable scale by the richest man. in the world and I mean, has it ever been comforting to think they don't mean me? They mean the recent arrivals. They mean the asylum seekers. they mean the refugees because what you saw on the streets of Belfast last night was worse than what we saw during the Farage riots last summer, because it was not even going after people they had reason to believe were recently arrived here, which is on a scale of one to one hundred ninety nine percent disgusting But last night was one hundred percent because there was no interest whatsoever. in whether you were first second or seventeenth generation, Black, British or brown, British or brown Belfast resident, they were going to set fire to your house and drag you out of your own front porch. So Was there ever any comfort in thinking, Ohh, it won't ever be me, however bad it gets No, for me personally and for many people like me, we at least were raised a certain way or had experiences where we know You can go and play that h I'm a good immigrant thing or I'm a good black or brown person thing. or you want. it will only be a matter of time before it's you. Just like with all of these black and brown people, they' going and support people like Kemmy Badnoock,ella Bradman, the Reform Party and all of that. And what's happened? The Restore Party shows up and now they're talking about rem migration, something which se on the continent of Europe, now it's in Britain, now it's getting out there. now it's growing. and bit by bit It's a bit of a reminder of It's not how good you are. It's not if you play for the England football team. It's not about if you're a professional or if you've got a degree or any of that type of stuff, it's you. Your presence here is the problem. They don't like you being here. and quite frankly, they don't even really like you being alive. would happily Sadly, I believe these people would happily wipe Large numbers or all of us out of existence if they could get away with it or if they could simply pull it off. I don't feel that We are in a position where we can really claim that this is purely about immigration anymore, because nobody, including during the Farage riots Nobody's checking paperwork Nobody's saying Oh, well, your grandfather came over then so you al it's the new guys. Hey, you're black, you're brown. Let's kit you I've got two thoughts. I want to make you smile, but I don't think I can Be I was going to say, Hey, don't worry, Kami Badenot's going to make you safer by telling the police to stop and search more black boys that one it actually shocks me. I bet how she is given like oxygen in polite society. I sometimes sit and I think nobody has a problem with this when she suggests this in the room Nobody says, hang on We can't live in reality anymore It's it's wild. to me that People are so happy that they can get a little puppet that can say the things that they can't get away with saying. You mean racist old white men? Absolutely delighted to hear what Camy Badenach has to say about stopping and searching young black boys withithin ten minutes of saying that the police have to treat everybody the same, otherwise we're all going to hell in a handcut. one hundred percent and could I make Sadly, you know you you look and you say, all right, well, are we saying the same thing in Glasgow When white boys stab other white boys, Are we saying the same thing in other parts of the country that have horrific murders, violence and crime? Are we saying that we should stop out and we should search every working class looking white boy because he might be a part of football violence or we should stop and search every Catholic coming out of mas of a history of pedophilia done by priests? No, it's the same thing. They just found something that they knew could stick and they've stuck it and it's working To knife murdderrs sentence last week, one you know about Be he killed Henry Novak? Well, you may not because he killed Mohammed Algasim. He was called Chaus Gorrigan. He was I think twenty two years old at the time twenty one at the time. and his father was jailed for two years after pleading guilty to assisting an offender after concealing high visibility clothing that his son had been wearing at the time of the attack it's shocking to me. And one thing that also really concerns me is that Although I'm glad to see, for example, after the Farage ots, all of those people like a lot of those people were like arrested and got sent to jail, something that sticks in my mind is that A problem we're going to have is that a lot of racists are in prison. So when you stick a bunch of other like low ranking racists in prison They start forming connections, they start meeting people, they start discussing things and even For some of them, they'll come out of prison and they'll be a goo fund me that will be able to generate hundreds of thousands of pounds or tens of thousands of pounds from people from God knows where in this world to make sure that they're taken care of So you can go out and do all of this crazy violence and hate And then You can connect up with some of the major players of these movements. and then what's going to happen when they come out? And Donald Trump has sent a message to the American equivalents of the people you're describing that they'll get rewarded and pardoned in an event reparation of takingarations reparations Trying to overthrow the government. Black Americans don't get reparations for what happen to them. L they get reparations for trying to Hang Mike Pence as they shouted Yeah Ly I'm sorry you had to make this call I'm sorry you could. I'm sorry you could It eleven thirty four. Dominic Ellis has your headlines thirty eight minutes after eleven is the time PMQ is on the way today. I mean it's not funny, is it? You hear a call like Jacks and you hear the I mean I want to argue with people. It's what I do generally, but I can't argue with people who are telling me what it's like to be black or brown at the moment in this country People are dancing to Elon Musk and Nigel Farage's tunes. and and and enacting pogrums on our streets Well, Steh Yaxley Lennin has his trotters up in Moscow with Elon Musk's father best known for impregnating his own stepdaughter Tice Hhtag save our women, hashtag protect our girls I mean it is just bonkers, right? But if you're black or brown I have well, I do now have an idea of what it's like, but I think I'm probably at fault for not asking a little bit sooner. Selena's in Petersfield. Selena, what would you like to say Hi, thank you for having me on the show. I wanted to just say my experience, I run the first Black children's magazine in this country called Coca Gl, and it went completely viral during lockdown. And I did it because my daughter was getting just horrifically bullied at school And when I launched, it was everywhere But what I found was that one newspap paper, I will not say who they are. did a horrific story on me and said that my magazine was not good for this country and I've got so much death threat They even put a picture of my daughter up on this newspaper I then had to move to the country to safety so that I can continue to publish my magazine.. What did they object to, Celina They didn't like the fact that I was celebrating my daughter and other girls that have never seen themselves on a front cover before. We're actually in the Children's VNA Museum because But they didn't write that. So what did they sort of accuse you of as it It's divisive. they use that word all the time and it's going to divide the country Believe it or not, there were more white people buying that magazine than you some black people. and the reason being is because you had grandparents that had black you know or mixed raceed grandchildren bit about their own heritage and the culture. Yeah. And so when this newspaper did this story on me and I got literally. I went to the country to you know basically take my children out of the public eye And then I got more them. This was face to face racism. Oh yeah, it was shocking. And I got people when I moved into a certain area peopleeople were moving out And one of the neighbourors that I had, she came and knocked on my door. And to introduce herself, she pulled because I had hair extensions at the time. She pulled my hair extensions. She looked me up and down and said, You could hang yourself with that hair. And I didn't want to respond in the way that I might normally respond So I knocked on the door later on I said, let's have a cup of tea. And I brouought her my magazines, which I use to educate people with with my culture, the beautiful magazines. And we sat down and we've talked about why she can't say that and what we've gone through throughout the years when it comes to our lovely, beautiful Afro hereir. So she hadn't meant any harm by it I know that sounds like an odd thing to say, But she was essentially saying it looks like ropes. She was basically yeah, trying to ic think I mean, she wanted to have a cup of tea with you is what I'm saying. And she wasn't frightened of you or wishing you harm. She's just done what is I mean, a micro aggression or Yes, that's what I will call it.es And what I had to do was instead of being what she probably thought I might be in terms of get angry, you know, the term angry black woman. I decided to take a different approach and educate her. Now it's not my job to educate people It kind of is if I mean, I'm sorry, I'm not arguing with you,ia. But your magazine, I mean you have given you've given yourself that job by dint of launching this wonderful magazine. Yeah In a way a of is celebrating children that don't often see themselves. So it is an educational magazine, however it was also for children to affirm them who don't often see themselves in the public eye. I mean, our brand changed the landscape of publishing. I got the highest award in publishing last year from the BSME awwards. I changed the game changed the way that people highlighted black people within the magazine industry. And I'm very proud of that to this day. However, with this Lady were friends. because good. I took a different approach. Now this is another thing I wanted to say as well I've had my tyres slash. I drive a nice car Hotat you know in the country, in the supermarket, someone seen my car slash my tres when police have arrested him, he said, that black woman shouldn't be driving a car better than me This is what we go through. When I open my door every day, I don't know what I'm going to get I'm probably going to be followed around the supermarket every time I walk into a supermarket. It's happened to me before, and that's gone viral. that you know, my approach is I am never going to let anybody else's opinions of me affect who I am I am going to continue to love. I'm going to continue to say hello to people. And right now I've moved to another area. And you know what happens in this area?? There's a little girl who was ten years old that doesn't look like me. and every day she knocks on my door to see if I'm okay. Yesterday she bought me a cupcake. the other day she brouought a granddad, the other day she brouought all the children in the neighborhood. I've given them all ice lollies. And this is what our little neighborhood, which I've just moved to in the country One little girl is a little beac and I won't say her name. safguarding reason. And if everybody could be like this little girl, how this world would be so different I don't live in this country upset down trodden. What I try and do is make a difference. And now my magazine has a reach of two point one million children. Why? Because Pearson's education picked it up. And they use this magazine as a tool to teach, to live together, to be in unity with one another And this is what we've got to try and do. Yesterday broke my heart what I saw, but I am not scared I will never be scared. I will never move I will make sure that whatever I'm doing, I can help others and I can teach others and I can be a beacon where I am There is a saying brighten the corner where you are And that's what we have to do more of. And I'm trying not to cry. I really am. Well, bright in the corner where you are, we can all take away from this conversation and from you and anybody who wants to find out more about Selina's magazine, which is even more important now than it was when she founded it can find it online very easily Coco Girl. And there it is, bright in the corner where you are. It's all any of us can ever do. But at the moment, most of the microphones are being handed to and the loud halers and the fake Desert Island discs programs are being handed to the people who want to make everything darker In fact, they love darkness unless it's on someone's skin It's eleven forty nine. onene of those days where I've been so busy either talking or taking calls. I haven't had time for many texts. Let's just rectify that briefly. Martin speaks for many of you and he writes supporting Palestinians makes you a terrorist, but committing racial pogroms makes you a hero. Richard disagreed with an earlier caller offering a commercial Reason for Elon Musk's enthusiasm for the sort of scenes we saw in Belfast last night, saying there is a game being played out in front of us and a plan and people are being sucked into it. Musk, Putin, and Farid are all the best of friends Claire writes, my French family witnessed this and spoke of this. Your caller is one hundred percent right If we don't call it out for what it is, fascism. and educate people in a shocking way. Farriage will win. my love to Joe who inspired the second ha of the programe today. I sympathize one hundred percent have black family who are painfully aware of the aggression behind many of the St. George's flags And Neil writes, I live in Belfast, and my workshops are right besides where the trouble happened last night I've told all my staff to go home and we've been told to leave by eleven AM. eleven fifty is the time. They want more violence Who's today? you know who they are report from the BBC in Northern Ireland and we' catch up with our own man Andy Hughes who's there at eleven at twelve forty five. They set bins on fire and shouted foreigners out Last night on the lower New Town Aards road in Belfast, hundreds of mask men walked down the street carrying bottles, bricks, and masonry. Displaying, I would suggest to you, pure cold rage of precisely the type that some people have been itching to see. pure cold rage They set bins on fire and shouted Foreigners out As they walked street to street, they were banging on doors, kicking them down and breaking windows. Masked men set cars alight and at one point I witnessed them trying to burn a car until a woman came out of her home and told them it belonged to a local and not a foreigner and they stopped young family had to be moved from their home by police thoseose scenes of a young family fleeing their home in the United Kingdom sick a local councillor called Paul Dherty. Independent counsellor from West Belfast has been supporting that family, describing them and theirfore children as traumatized, homes were attacked, businesses targeted, livelihoods lost, and many innocent families terrorized last N because of the color of their skin or where they come from And we are living in a country where some of the most amplified voices want this cannot say this often or boldly enough They want it. they have called for it, they dream of it, they celebrate it. to and including the man who owns C it whatever you want eleven fifty two is the time. Halla is an actor and Halla, what would you like to say Hi, Hi Jade. I'm sorry. I was bit late joining today, but my momum's already written a note. so that's only twenty I don't know if you remember me speaking to you before, but I'm actually of Sudan. Sudani U Some of the calls I had yesterday messages from people who I know through work, who know I am of Sdania origin We're kind of a bit laced with weird stuff. you know, how do you feel about this, you know incident? How do you feel about this incident? Because this is my countrymen who have committed the climbing this heinous crie in Belfast. And So it's just the same's weird. I never get I never got messages like that last week when Chaz Corrigan G jailed for stabbing someone to death Yes, exactly. And the same thing happens, you know, when something happens, you know, Islam related. You know, I'm black, I'm an Arab, I'm Muslim. I'm, you know, like Sometimes I call myself a triple threreat. I don't like to use that, but I feel like that's what I am representing now in this country. The reason I called is because you're talking about how how we feel right now. and I just feel sense of betrayal because when I came here in the eighties, this is not what I signed up for So it's almost there was an unwritten contract. I came here, I studied, I worked, I did my part And I kind have expected know for me to have made this my home, there are lots of things I would expect in return. And the first thing is my right to exist here and be here and work and raise a family. So now I'm seeing these ilities I'm seeing them locally. I'm seeing them on my screen I'm seeing them happening to my Teenenage daughters at school. I'm seeing them because most of their you know we have a certain level of activism. So if you know us, you'll know we are Sudanese.. although my husband is not And now' just it's just rearing ugly head after ugly head And even with my parents, you know we all proudly wear Suddanese pins and go on marches and so on. And it's just becoming it's almost like it's becoming something that we need to be growowing back from, which we don't want to do. You mean winding your neck in as it was. Yeah. But the worst the worst part for me, the girls at thirteen and fifteen And to be honest with you, Jane, in the last few years is this is the only environment that they've got to know. So at least you know when I was here, I was able to so I don't I have to go back to say to them back in my day, you know, and I don't want to do that. I don't want them to live in an environment where they are you know, they feel like they have to kind of be silenced a little bit. they can't take they took a Sudanese flag out once somewhere, I won't mention where. And they were kind of you know, attacked and you know, there was hostility towards them mainly because most people thought it was the Palestinian flag But even then, that's not really the point. And they just feel they are kind of withdrawing a little bit from a lot of the stuff that we have actively and openly and proudly done before So to go back to my initial point, I just feel there is a sense of betrayal that's happened to every single person who has come here You know, we have stopuck to our partath of this unwritten contract that we've had with this country. And now this country has reduced us to the people to second Stopop on us Yeah I hear you. And of course in some cases, not I don't think people of Sudanese heritage, but in many, many cases, people of colour come from countries that we arrived in and colonized and told everybody there that they were British now and therefore they could you enjoy all the benefits of being British. That of course, is why the far right is so Hideously and violently opposed to children or even adults being taught history. You know, it's why Satam Sangira's books are so powerful. We spoke yesterday to I've forgotten W was it Paul in Selby, the actor? who'd been in, I think, a production of smallm Island I think it's in Small Island that one of the main characters comes to this country after his brother was killed in the Second World War I think working as a pilot and he presumed that that would mean that he arrived here U not quite to a hero's welcome, but to a hero's Brothers welcome and of course the reality was incredibly different. I'm sorry to hear what you tell me, Howaller, I really am. and I am just collecting experiences today. I can't really offer any comfort, quite the opposite because they'll be calling for more of what we've seen overnight if they haven't already Stay safe Derek's in Belfast. Derek, what would you like to say Hello, I'm a first time caller. Hello please excuse the nerves. It's only my fifty nine years of age British live in Northern Ireland And it's not good at the minute ninety six percent or ninety seven percent white I think Northern s it's not good. I mean I've lived here for twenty some years and I've got to say this is the first time in twenty summmer years, I feel you know, it's very hard to put into words what's going on. What happen been absolutely It's great disgusting absolutely disgusteding what happened with the young man and everything else. Of course it is. I mean that's the bit that I mean it needs saying and we can't say it often enough, but literally nobody disagrees with that. The only point of contention here is between people who welcome the scenes that we saw near the Shankill Road and people who are disgusted by everybody is disgusted by the footage that went viral yesterday But I just feel at the minute it's race. It's a race issue now at the minute. It's nothing to do with You know, what happened? It's a race issue. It's nothing to do with immigration because the previous examples of provocations have been built upon crimes committed by people who weren't immigrants. their forebears were their parents or their grandparents, justust like Fargge's children have an immigrant parent. But of course, it's never them that are on the receiving it. Are you fed? I mean, I don't want to ask you this, but I think I have to. and you did ring in, so you probably knew I would I it ave you thought about your own front door? Yes and. I live in the countryside. Okay U's it's predominantly in towns. that's always. Yes, of course. You know, I'm more concerned for my wife who happens to be white and born here I It's making her very nervous you know, when me outs and about You know, please get home safe, please do that, you know, it's I'm not being Blase or anything. No I've lived through the seventies and the eighties. in London and the nineties in London. So that kind of grounds you into what's happening around you If you know what I mean? with like the Sus law and this law that they brought out when we were young kids and things. Yeah So you kind of Keep yourself aware, you know, but you shouldn't really have to My young son, he's twenty five, He lives here as well I You know, I'm more concerned about them than I'm concerned about myself I don't know if that's a silly way of thinking, but I don't know either. I'm certainly not going to give you any lectures on what you should and shouldn't be feeling. But also you're a husband and a dad and we We're raised that way. You feel automatically first and foremost, you're worried about yours, not you. You're worried about your loved ones more than you're worried about yourself. but Id wish I lived in a place where nobody ought to be worried about any of you. I really do there stay safe back back in Belfast. it's being reported that the victim of the attack that we are discussing has Stephen Oglevy as the man's name has lost his left eye, so another hideous postcript to an already hideous story, but quite how anybody comes away from a moment like this thinking we've got to punish completely innocent people. remains a little less beyond me than it was at ten o'clock It's Wednesday. It's twelve o'clock Natasha Clarkke is here because PMQ' is imminent Yes, James, and I'm sure this tragic case is going to come up at PMKs. I'm sure the Primeinter is speaking about it right now They usually do these things at the very top of PMKs before they get into the questions. I'm sure we will be paying tribute to that Fallman that suffered those horrific industry injuries in Belfast and obviously the trouble that we saw overnight, and I'm sure that will be the subject of some of those questions. Other things that could come up? Obviously we are just a couple of weeks away from a very crucial by election. I'm sure that Kistan will be wanting to mention week isn't it ak tomorrow? Yes for PMQ's next week before then. So I imagine he'll want to talk up all of the things that his government is doing, including some of the social media announcements that they've been making this week about banning the nudification elements of certain apps to try and keep kids safe online. I wonder if Kemy Beajenot might press the Prime Minister on when that defense and investment spending plan is due because we've been hearing rumbles about it for weeks. I spoke him when I saw him last Friday in Swinden and spokke him about this. so doing a bit of the pitch rolling for this extra spending on defence. and I'm sure Kemvy Baden will want to ask, when's it coming Prime Minister and is this going to be enough Indeed, I asked you last week whether or not there was any prospect of normal questions about normal policies coming up. Defense, I guess gets filed under that. I mean, she never ceases to surprise. I can't quite see how Cami Badenoock makes political capital about a crime apparently committed by somebody who arrived in this country under Tory government I can't see how she makes an immigration point about it. But she might try anyway. She might try anyway. I might just say this was the wrong decision and is are we in control of our home office making these decisions? And you know she could also use it to have a go at now two people that were at the forefront of the home offffice that are now, of course, in the reform partarty, That's Robert Generrich and Suela Bravan who have potentially been involved in some of this policy at the time, that this man made his way from Paris, we understand it to Dublin and then on to Belfast. So there are obviously questions about it, but it does feel like it's a lot of finger pointing there about sort of what went wrong. And I was at a press conference with reform earlier today and Richard Tice obviously got questioning about that. This is know your guys,'re making they were making these decisions What did he say? I just said this is the homeome offfficers's problem and they're the ones that are not enforcing their own policies correctly. But his key doesn't Exactly, doesn't blame his key people.ve And it's a red herring, of course. I mean the you might as well talk about stopping births in order to make sure there are no crimes, but it is a red herring that does them Damage rather than good, which is what normally happens. It is that time of week, so we will cross live to the House of Commons as soon as the leader of the opposition Kemmy Badenock gets to her feet. Did you keep count of the number of hours that elapsed between her saying that the police have to treat everybody the same and saying that black boys need to be stopped and searched more than white boys? the first quest the first point was when. I don't know I So you don't know the hour. Well,' I'm hoping someone else has counted. I' how many wasas it in this h was minutes? Was it in the same speech? No, I don't think it was quite even by her standards, that would be remarkable, wouldn't it? Yeah If it was in the same speech. Anything else, anything else that we might expect? Well, look, we had a bit of a coming together. What about Blue Skot? She's not going to ask him about Twitter, is she because she's not there all on time But hey, Davey might Someone's bloody has to. I mean, it's getting ridiculous now.. Well, let's find out, Natasha. And I also wish England and Scotland the very best in the World Cup Can I wish you a very happy birthday, Mr Speaker, many happy returns And may I take the opportunity to associate myself with the remarks that the the Prime Minister made about the helicopter crash ourur condolences to their family and of course, to the family of Michael Story as well Can I also thank him for his short statement on Belfast The scenes in Belfast are deeply deeply disturbing A man is in hospital after a brutal attack. And now families are frightened after a night of violence. There is a life criminal case, so we must be careful about what we say But we can be clear about this People have a right to be angry I am angry and people have the right to expect their politicians to secure our borders But no one has a right to burn families out of their homes or to burn public property and attack the police. We all have a duty to stand up for public safety in every way. Mr Speaker, last night, America carried out strikes on Iran in response to the downing of a U. S. helicopter This comes just days after renewed attacks on Ukraine. The world is getting more dangerous and the British public want to know this government is doing everything it can to protect our national security So can the Prime Minister tell the House Will the full Defence investment plan finally be published this week. Prime Minister Mr Speaker, can I agree with her that in relation to both Iran and Ukraine, we're facing a more volatile world than at any time during our lifetimes.rpe, as far as defence is concerned, we've already taken a number of measures We have increased defence spending from two point three percent to two point six percent in twenty twenty seven. That's spending two hundred seventy billion pounds over this Parliament We have carried out a strategic review of defence and we're committed to publishing defence investment plan before the NATO summit, which is in just a few weeks time K Bindle That sounded like a no,rpeaker. We have wasted two years waiting for the defefence investment plan. Projects have been put on hold and Britain is getting weaker with every passing day It has been reported that the Chief of the Defense staff told the Prime Minister that the Ministry of Defense needs an extra twenty eight billion pounds Will that requirement be met in full? we have set out the D deffence invvestment plan. It is a ten year plan and it is the first line by line review of defence budgets in eighteen years. She is wrong to say it has been delayed by two years,. Theence strategic review was published a year ago. We have been working through the details to make sure that we get this right We are the government that has increased defence spending from two point three to two point six percent I remind the party opposite when they came into power, defence spending was two point five percent and they took it down to two point three percent. We have taken it up to two point six percent. The defence investment by twenty twenty seven, the deffence investment plan will be published before NATO. We have already signed four thousandteen hundred major defence contracts ninety four percent of those are with British businesses, and as the Defence Secretary said, that includes helicopters made in Yovill, drones in Swindland, armoured vehicles in Telford. We have also given our armed forces the biggest payrise in over twenty years. That is labour making investment to safeguard our national security Mraker, can I welcome the payer eyes for the armed forces? But the Prime Minister says He's increased defence spending is not. This year, he is cutting it by three point five billionounds. What he is talking about is hopeful increases, which we don't know if he will do because there is still no defence investment. At a time that we need leadership,, we have total paralysis. It is reported that the Chancellor is only willing to find thirteen billion pounds for the dip At the London Defence Cerence last year, the Prime Minister said defence would be the central organizing principle of his government How can that be the case when he is giving the armed forces less than half of the minimum that they need Mr Pakident, we have already increased defence spend. We will spend EUR two hundred seventy billion in this Parliament. What did they do on spend? They took it from two point five percent and they cut it to two point three percent And we'll take no lectures from there. They sat at the heart of a government that failed our armmsed services They cut frigates and destroyers by twenty five percent They cut mine hunters by fifty percent. They cut the army from one hundred thousand down to seventy two thousand. They missed army recruitment targets every single year for fourteen years, and they left morale in the armed forces at an all time low, so we will take no lectures from them on the defence and security of our country r President, we haveve heard him say this about a hundred times. There is still no defence investment plan. He is the Prime Minister now, at least I think he is, Should I be calling Andy Burnham instead to ask these questions? He is the Prime Minister. and the reason that he is dithering is because he doesn't know where the money is coming from The military is waiting, the bond markets are watching He has only three options cutting spending more borrowing or higher taxes We know that the Chancellor wants to put up tax to pay for it. Will the Prime Minister rule out raising taxes she asked the House to simply ignore the last fourteen years on We may have failed the armed forces, hollowed them out, but please just forget all that and act as if it did not happen. Well you cannot forget all that given the damage they did to our armed services. She says forget all that. I remind the House when they left office, forty seven out of forty nine major defence contracts were delayed or over budget. That is what we are fixing. You cannot just scrub away and forget. I know they want to forget the last fourteen years in P, so do the British public. That is why they are sitting over there. but we have increased defence spending We are going to publish the Eventents's investment plan and that will be done before the NATO summit coming up in just a few weeks time r Ppeakident, I remember when the last Government led Europe when we were fighting the war in Ukraine. When Russia invaded, we were ready. We supplied Ukraine with munitions. We increased defence spending. We increased defence spending, but I wasn't asking him about our record. I asked him if he would rule out tax rises. He did not rule out raising tax rises So tax rises are coming. He can't borrow more because the markets have no confidence in him. The reason the Prime Minister is in this mess is because he maxed out on spending in his first two budgets. That's why the benefits bill is set to rise to over two hundred billion pounds by the end of the decade He has things the wrong way aroundound,. He has a benefits plan until twenty thirty one, but no defence investment plan. Why not just cut welfare?, she talks of leading the way on Ukraine and I did pay tribute and do to what the last Government did on Ukraine and we stood with them. We continue to lead the way because it is the United Kingdom and France that are leading the coalition of the Wing that have got the military plans together for security guarantees in Ukraine. Equally in Iran,, it is the UK Government and the French Government that have put together the coalition for the reassurance military plans as soon as the Strait of Pormos is open. That is what we are doing to lead. but we are not going to take lectures on defence from the party opposite after what they did to the armed forces, and nor are we going to take lectures on the economy which they crashed And we've had to pick up. E made know , at a time of increased global instability and tension, war in Europe and the Middle East, he is paralyzed, giving the armed forces less than half of the minimum that they need. Tony Blair says Cut welfare for defence. Lord Robertson, former NATO Secretary general He's one of them says cut welfare for defence. We all know why he won't cut welfare. It's because he is too weak. too weak to make a decision, too weak to face down his backbenches and cut benefits, too weak to stand up for our national security As the sun sets on his premiership, he is scrabbling around for a legacy But isn't it the case,peak, that the real legacy will be a bloated welfare state and a weaker armed forces Mrpe, when they were in office, they didn't reform welfare or invest in our armed services. So the very choice she puts up Defence spending went down, welfare spending went up eighty eight billion pound overall on their watch thirty three billion under the shadow Chancellor. Sope, she put they did neither welfare reform nor did they spend our armed forces. and every week she reminds us why the British public sent them packing because she ignores we are turning the country around. Growth is up. She does't want to talk about that. Interest rates are down, She does not want to talk about that. Immigration is down after she cheerladed for it to go up, and the NHS waiting lists have coming down the fastest rate for seventeen years. I am going to keep fighting for the people who elected a labour government and sent us here two years ago. people who want to live in a safer world. parents who want to have a better future for their children and young people growing up in poverty who deserve a better future. We arere investing in this great nation, standing up against those that divide us a stronger, fairer Britain There will be a tax set And it might be for somebody who didn't request it. Richard Birkam , I would like to associate myself with the Prime Minister's comments on the horrific events in Belfast. The co founder of US tech Giant Palanter once claimed the NHS makes people sick. But now Palanter is running the NHS's new data platform. The Financial Times has reported that palnteer staff have had unlimited access to identifiable NHS patient data. And also there' deep concerns about Palanti's human rights record in relation to Trump and IC and Israel's military action in Gaza NHS patient data should' not be left in the hands of a US tech giant. The government has an opportunity to end this contract through a break clause next year. Will the government take that opportunity and kick Palanter next year out of our NHS r P, as the Health Secretary has said, the existing contract will be reviewed as it always is ahead of the Braak clause, and data security is always a priority. on the single patient contract There willll be strong cybersecurity protections and we will protect this data, like we do with all health data We' focused on modernising NHS so patients don't have to repeat themselves and get the care they need more quickly. Our investment has cut NHS's waiting lists, deliivered millions of extra appointments, improved DNA and ambulance response time. I'm proud of what we' doing Ed David, leader of the Liberal Democrat M President, can I join the Prime Mister in sending our condolences to the families those killed in last week's helicopter crash And canan I associate myself with the Prim Minister's remarks about the horrific knife attack in Belfast? Our thoughts are with the victim and his family, and can I join the Prime Minister in condemning the disorder last night pe, in Carers Week, can I celebrate the millions of family carers who make huge sacrifices to look after their loved ones? And can I look forward to an England vversus Scotland Wld Cup final And can I wish you happy birthday, Mpeaker As the chaos over the defeence investment plan goes on I am sure Members on all sides were shocked to read yesday's reports The government is considering slashing the hospital programme to fund the shortfall Surely in twenty first century Britain, people can expect both a decent local hospital and armed forces that keep them safe. So will the Prime Minister rule out any cuts to the NHS budget to fund defence Mis, can I first agree with him about the amazing work of our carers We will take the necessary measures to defend our country, the first duty of any Prime mininister. We will also take the measures as we have done to invest in our public services. and forgive me, I was running a public service when the government that his party were part of was stripping them bare under austerity. so we are really not going to take lectures austerity from the Gentlemen opposite I was hoping we would hear more about defence investment, I would urge the Prime Minister to look at our plans for defence bonds to e twenty billionound into the fence., turning to those horrific scenes in Belfast. Too many times we see the same pattern An appalling crime that makes us all feel immense pain and anger. And then extremists who exploit that grief and anger to spread hatred and violence aided and abetted, by social media barons like Elon Musk and their divisive algorithms Does the prrimeisist agree this is not who we are as a country And that it is not free speech if it is controlled by tech billionaires and their algorithms So we crack down properly on platforms like X that are fueling violence and hatrede Ministerr, we will crack down on anyone who is fulling this division. But it is really important and I agree with him, we are heading into a very difficult situation in Northern Ireland. As I say, I have spoken to the Chief Constable, the first Minister and deputy First Minister this morning. They are united in saying we should all be calling for calm. The police are on the front line and it is our duty as politicians to call for that calm and nobody who is a politician should be whipping up division and hatred pe, flexible and co working spaces play an important role in regenerating town centres like mine in Rochester and Street.ty minutes after twelve is the time backack with Natasha Clark shortly to pick over the bones of what you just heard. twenty two minutes after twelve. Be we get stuck into that, just something you said earlier struck me and I didn't pick up on it at the time. Why is Richard Tyice holding press conferences and not Nigel Farrge? I don't you think I need to tell you the answer this one, do you? I don't know.cause I suggested to you the other day that he was hiding and you were adamant that he wasn't. I suggested about six months ago that he was hiding. And I did look into the data and I concluded that I didn't think he was hiding six months ago, But as Rinaace Mason, one of my lobby colleagues kindly pointed out today to Richard Tyice at the press conference, it's been fifty days since Nigel Farage has done a single press conference, and many people think that that is because he iss hiding from those questions about the five million pounds donation. Do You think you're allowed to talk to him at the moment on a without promising that you won't ask about five million pounds. I can't think anyone who has recently, but would that be do you think a precursor to doing anything in a studio? To be honest with you I want to doubt that that is the case. So do I. I want to doubt that do I? Because I don't think that should be A term of preconditions for any political interview, Oh, you can't ask about this, you can't ask about this. And I don't think that should be the case. But one has to wonder. But yes, We didn't hear. Ian says I'm a bit behind James. I'm listening on catch up, but I've heard that Nigel Farr has just been awarded the Desert Island Disc Peace Prize. he does know. Congratulations to everybody involved, didn' that But yes, Richard Tys was the one frrontting questions about what we I was very baffled by this morning, the issue of the day. What do you think it is for reform to be talking about Do you think it's the someomeone been mean to Sarah approach him? She was there, but unfortunately didn't didn't say anything, so I don't know whether anyone's been mean to her. Is it ghostbusters too? Ghostbusters too a good quest good, good response, but sadly not. Fly tipping whole press conference for an entire hour about flight tipping. A very serious isue and I know one that lots people take No and no won't let me do it as a topic. Flight tipping and bus routes are the two things that I'm fascinated by, so to be fair, maybe I'd have fitted in for you. Do you want to tell Richard Tysice that you'll go andight tipping with? No, please don't. Well I'll go have to go instead. Last time you tried to make friends with it, it didn't end well. Let's leave that in there. leave a story for later Anyway, you can read it, I think, appeared somewhere online Speaking of online, a few of you have asked about the article I said I'd written for a newspaper earlier and it's not nice to tell you, I wrote an article that I filed at three o'clock yesterday for the I newewspaper. They've used a byline picture that is approximately one hundred and fifty years old. despite the fact that I did an entire photo shoot with them B ononday in pursu of a newspaper. They clear didn't like it either. But I fathered at three o'clock and by six o'clock on the streets of Belfast it was all coming true. but a couple of people have asked what paper it's in. so it is in the eye where I appear in the August company of the likes of Simon Marks, who willll be with you at four o'clock and and Ian Dunton and, Ian Berrell and others That was quite dull. I mean, when's your defence plan coming? it is coming, but I can't tell you when. Is your defamed Tesa? It is, but I can't. and also you did that thing. and when Is that it, really? That's a really good summary very. Well well done. We don't need to talk any further. But actually a few interesting revelations at the end of that exchange, I thought, James. When I spoke to the Prime Minister last week in Swinden about the idea of the defense investment plan. There was already rums starting to surface that we'd been hearing that cuts were on the cards in order to pay for this extra defence spending. And that has really sent ripples through Westminster and it's really worried a lot of MPs whereere is this money going to come from? And obviously the Chancellor has said repeatedly, she doesn't want to go back to an age of austerity and she doesn't want to do cards But now you just heard from Sakir Stammer repeatedly, when he's asked, arere you going to rule out cuts to the NHS? Are you going to make cuts to other departments? He can't definitely say that that's not the case, which is really going to worry some of his own MPs that say, you spent two years telling us that you will not be returning to austerity, borrowing lots more, taxing lots more, and now you're looking potentially at cuts to pay for defence that right question and there's been reports over the weekend about where those cuts might fall. It might fall in the energy and net zero department. it might fall in the transport department. There's been lots of commentary about why it's not falling in the welfare department as well. Kir Stama told me this is going to beully fully costed and fully funded. Toxic, isn't it? politically? Because the public aren't that bothered. The public are going to be a lot more interested in spending on Certainly on health Absolutely. lear D defence. Defence doesn't. much does it when people are asked to list the things they care about the most? And yet we are being told now repeatedly and regularly by people who really know what they're talking about that we're more vulnerable than we've ever been since the end of the Cold War. Yeah. and the goovernment, I don't think James are just making this argument enough to to people and I don't think they're making it well enough. And actually you're right about what you say about it being a public issue. I was looking at the U go Tracker on this on the weekend, specifically on the issue of defence. It has gone up in the past sort of two or three years since Ukraine, since Iran, since sort the world has arguably more dangerous, but it's still something like I think twenty two percent I think tops of people think that defence is the most pressing issue facing Britain today. So it's going to be really tricky for the Prime Minister to come out and say I've got to make cuts to these departments in order to pay for it. but that is exactly what we expect him to do potentially as early as later this week. And I think to E Davy, I don't think there's a great deal else to say defense element of that conversation that you haven't covered perfectly. but I am struck by the In fact that David is still on Twitter or X, as I think we're supposed to call it these days. Yeah. so I think fascinating debate actually there about Elon Musk, about his influence in politics, even Kist Stammer you know has repeatedly accused the tech billionaire of stirring up hatred online. and he's obviously had announcement earlier today about thatification sorry earlier this week about notification apps and doing more down on tech companies but he is still on X, and so is our Davy both still on these social media platforms. whereere Streeting as well had an answer to this when he was speaking to Louis Goodell for an issue of the news agents last week. And he just said, I don't believe in retreating from the pitch. I don't think that we should get off it. But it is a question for every politician now, if you really want to be on this platform, which is filled with hatred and conspiracy theories, crypto, billionaire scams, There's a lot of filth on there And politicians are now having to defend themselves. How can you in one hand criticise it so much? And on the other you're still not willing to take yourself off that platform Yeah, I mean, I tried to have that debate Was it last week or earlier this week? And it worked up to a point, but the problem is, of course, is that everybody's welcome on this programe, including people who are on Twitter still quite a lot and don't see any of the toxicity that That typifies the experience for anyone who's remotely associated with public life. So it's weird that you can tell that Kemmy B or not ' becausecause there was a period when people claimed she spent most of her time playing candy Crush. Yes, there was a period. Now she's on Twitter all the time. I wouldn't say she's on Twitter more than other politicians. I don't know I't know exactly why she spent judging by the things she thinks matter. Interesting. I think she is on Twitter I don't know how much she is on Twitter any or any politics Jessalto is on the show last but she's suing Gro. Exactly for fake sexualized images. Yeah. And a couple of MPs have, and you've seen more migrate over to Blue Sky as you did and I'm sure What about the threads? What's threads, do we know? I'm not on threads, so I. I don't w want to download yet another app. I'd rather just so hard to keep up spepeaking of things you downloaded, I had to double check this true because I don't think it was posted on Bice guide, but it is Due to ongoing unrest in Belfast and threats of further unrest this afternoon and evening, the Northern Ireland warar Mmorial has made the difficult decision to cancel our Belfast learearning festival events scheduled for Wednesday, the tenth of June and Thursday the eleventh of June. so There you go, the pure cold rage that we're seeing on the streets of Belfast at the moment causing the cancellation of warar memorial So that's sickening, isn't it? It's beyond sickening, but sadly, utterly, utterly unsurprising. And there will be other voluntary groups in the area that are, in fact, there's one here and Gaming CIC, which is a community organization having to close its venue today with reports of more planned protests or indeed, outpourings of pure cold rage Or poggroms, however, you prefer to describe these things. and the loyalist groups responsible for the violence last night presumably and probably, but not definitively and provenly are now ordering businesses across Northern Ireland to shut to close at eleven o'clock. They're just that's freedom of speech for you. That's freedom of assembly. You've got the people responsible for last night's violence now ordering businesses to close. We'll have to wait and see and indeed hope that They don't get what they want again. twelve thirty one is the time. Matt Hewittt has your headlines twelve thirty four is the time. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC, where we cross live now to our crime correspondent Andy Hughes, who. has made his way to East Belfast this afternoon, where as you'll know, a bus as you probably know, a bus was setatellite yesterday evening will also ask him, I think about Fears or expectations of further violence. These aren't protests, by the way. Journists have vocabulularies that are limited. There's only so many nouns and verbs we can use to describe things that are going on I don't know what they are. Poggroms is the word I'd go for, but they're not protests They are, however, violent. And Andy can see some of the consequences of last night's violence. Andy, what have you found Yeah, well, I can confirm, it was not a protest in anyone's vocabulary. This was a riot last night. Let's just show you some of the evidence This is one of the streets where a lot of the chaos was going on. As you can see, just car after car after car Window after window after window These have been set alight and they were set alight by an angry mob And here, this is a totally different place. We were here last night and there were hundreds and hundreds of Young men Bys and older men dressed all in black, all wearing balicavas. And they were here and they were here to cause violence People who living here were absolutely horrified. and they were all here, they said because twenty four hours previously a local man who we are now calling Stephen Ogilve He was stabbed in a horrendous attack and that attack was utterly brutal. We've now found out that he's lost his left eye And he also suffered serious injuries to his neck and is back. James I wanted to gauge what some of the locals were thinking about descended on their neighborhood. And a lot of them weren't happy Here's one young man I spoke to. Thelex of Piticians is using the working clause to incate their own herates and basically scapegoat immigrants as murderers What does this g? You said politicians what politicians are you talking about? Well, the likes of This even in England Les of Riper Low Faz obviously, to's Nigel Farars. Yeah. hereere I would say would be unionist politicians basically joining the bandwagon and scapegooldating immigrants for issues that are caused by people in government So this very articulate young man, he was blaming politicians Not only in Northern Ireland, but in fact in the UK, he namechcked Nigel Farge leader of reform. and Rupert Low, leader of Rore He said that they were mobilizing young angry men who were waiting for an excuse to commit violence' end, as you can see. they certainly did that It sounds quite organised. unless I've misunderstood you that they were all dressed similarly and all wearing baliclavvers. I mean, that speaks notot of something uniquely thrown up by the events of the last twenty four hours, but of links with Northern Islands longer history. It' been suggested to me this morning that loyalist groups willll have been using this as an opportunity to pursue increased relevance Yeah, this is a loyalist area that we're in. and I saw some of the messages. that were being pumped out on social media before the protest. And they asked all people who were attending to dress all in black, and cover their faces and wear hoods. Why? Because if they all dress the same, it makes it impossible pololice to identify them. Very interestingly, James, I obviously came here last night expecting place to be surrounded by police. When I got here, I couldn't find one police officer. I had to walk three hundred yards up the road to actually see a police officer and I spoke to contact N said, Well this is going to be their tactic for this. They do not want to raise tensions by steaming in. did steam in though, when the firebombs started going through the windows. you can see here the consequences of that P police riot vans. they raced up this road And they knew better than to get out the police fans. But the mob just turned on the police fans. they started smashing up the windscreamens, they started tearing off the wing mirrors And then minutes later The vans had to retreat and abought their mission Even the police couldn't get anywhere near this. They were just completely overrun by all the rioters This has got nothing to do really, in one sense with what happened to Stephen Oaklevy because it is if you like a tinder box waiting for a spark that you're describing Andy Yeah. It was It was nearly certain that there was going to be trouble tonight. The big question is, is that going to continue? As I say, it's a very different place here today. This was just totally overrun protesters. We have seen some leaflets in the same style is that were pumped out yesterday, calling for more trouble so I'll be here tonight seeing if there is any. One thing is for sure the locals here certainly seem to be pointing the finger at certain politicians. Yes. And is there any, I mean, indication yet of whether the police are expecting these calls for more? violence to be realized to be acted on They just don't know. Ironically, as we speak, a police car is just driven into the street. That's the first police car I've seen in a long time And but now it's because the police now feel safe to come into this area. They certainly didn't L night, here we are. So no doubt they'll be starting their investigations into what is clearly several awesin attacks And finally, Andy, do we have any idea whereether the people who were living in those homes this time yesterday are now No, we don't. And it's still unclear if this was even targeted. It's being claimed online by some These were targeted. However, I witnessed one thing last night where a young group of men they were trying to flip a car And then an old elderly gentleman came out and said, please no in a thick Northern Irish accent saying, please no, that's my car. And then they just stopped what they were doing. and then apologized said, ever so sorry And they were apologizing proficially and then they moved on. to the next car. Andy, I am sure that we will be hearing more from you in the course of the day and indeed the evening, although I hope just because I'm a human being who cares about other human beings that you won't be reporting on further violence or any repetition of the events and the scenes that we saw last night, Andy Hughes' live from East Belfast, our crime correspondent, and also of course the co host with Neil Bassu of the Crime Agents podcast H's an interesting. I've got a couple of interesting texts for you. We have Malcolm Ducker Waiting on the other side of the next break, Malcolm is the father of the young lady we spoke to while he was in Israeli custody after being part of the peace flatilla that sailed to draw attention to how Israel is treating Palestinians and ended up drawing attention to how Israel treated people like Malcolm Ducker, he was one of the people held as Iamar Benavvir marched around the custody suite, sort of not quite singing, but celebrating and celebrating the brutalization of am Well inalcolm's case, a seenty two year old former RA wife, a seventy two year old RAF veteran. so we'll meet him shortly. before that, just a couple of texts. This is interesting from Jim in Lincoln. I wouldn't always bother reading these out, but this one's Ppertinent, I think, you're overt loathing for this country and the colonial guilt you clearly carry around and wear like a badge of honour is simply nauseating. Jim, that's called knowledge, mate I feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever about what was done by people from this country long before I was born in this country. Why would I It's a ridiculous feeling. What you feel is shame, at your ignorance and the fact that when I pointed out the racists don't want people to be taught about the colonial history of this country, it's precisely because it would make a complete mockery of the racism that they feel towards people who come from the countries that we colonized people who were told, hey You're British now And poor souls believed it. So what you're articulating there is both your own shame and your own ignorance and your own knowledge that I was right that you don't want people to be taught about our colonial history precisely because it makes a mockery of modern racism. But just in case you're worried about me, mate I feel why would I feel guilt? about what was done one hundred years ago Anwhere Happy to clear that up. And I quite liked this one as well. I like this one a lot. I know you can't do it today Would you do a piece on what the rest of us can do if they see someone being abused in the way that your callers have described help it would help us to know what to do to stop this cancer spreading. That is an interesting question. I like the posters on the tube. Telling people what to do if they see someone being harassed. Sheila did a great show yesterday about this new law enacted now for the first time about men harassing women in the case that she cited on public transport. But I've struggled a bit with the campaign. I love the idea behind it, but I'm not quite sure what advice I'm actually being given. So yes, that is a very, very good idea that we will perhaps turn our attention to at some point. and this from David saying, I don't want both sides of the story, James. I just want the facts and the truth and not the racist propaganda I want your station to stop celebrating barely hidden racism. I suppose I'm not here to defend it, but You I need to hear what other voices are saying in order to Marshall your responses. and I'm afraid that some of the voices I think you're alluding to, the barely hidden racism are the voices that prompted some of the violence that we've seen on The streets of this country everywhere from Southport last summer to Southampton last week to Belfast last night So I don't know that it's necessarily the correct course to call for them to be completely silenced. It's twelve forty five elve forty eight, one of the things we've done on the programe recently to prompt one of the biggest responses we've seen recently was a conversation I had last month on the twenty first of May with Claire Azugar, whose father Malcolm at the time was being held by the Israeli regime after He set sail and became part of the Global Summered Flatilla we talked about it because of the footage that went viral after Imar Bengeovir, the security minister treated British and many other countries as well, but of course Our primary interest was in British captives abominably. We saw hands tied behind backs and a sort of celebrate and of course the question that was raised was if they treat British people like this in public on camera, what the hell are they doing to Palestinian people in secret off camera. H's a little reminder of what Claire told us about Father Malcolm's experiences and indeed motivation First of all, he's a sailor and he wants to be useful and he wants to help and he wants to try and create a better world for his grandchildren, for all the children of the world. He can't stand seeing the annihilation of the Palestinian people, their continued suffering and starvation. and he felt that Flotilla was a best way of trying to reach them but also to get media attention to get the world's attention onto their plight, which I have to say has worked becausecause now everyone's talking about it proud of you malcolm Yeah, she is. Sorry, it makes me m emotional. course does hear it. I understand. I always get emotional when people are kind when they get violent I donon't get emotional. I get angry. Probably a healthy palate. I think of responses that in the great schema of things. Well,' ' probablyably going to get emotional and angry in the course of the next ten minutes. But should we begin with the moment that the flatilla was intercepted and the boat you were on was boarded by Israeli forces? What was that like Yes, well, we were anticipating it because a number of boats had been u boarded before early on in the day And it was approaching dark Um when we were intercepted we saw the rib leaving the prison ship and approaching us. So we were prepared I'm and we had all our phones and electronic devices and anything that give anything away to the IDF ready to ditch any offensive what could be considered offensive weapons like kitchen knives and things like that we didn't want them to find them on board. So all of that was ditched on their way. Because people have been killed in these circumstances before on t Indeed. Yes. Spurious ground. Yes. So you get rid of the knife so they can't claim that they were frightened might. Yes, exactly, exactly. And we were trained to de escalate any situation U So basically as soon as they came alongside with their with their rib, I think they were probably something like twelve soldiers old arrmed soldiers. o yes, absolutely and they were pointing their laser gun sights at us Um throughout the boarding And I was told as I was on the helm of the boat to steer a certain course Um And the rest of the crew were told to put their hands on the heads and move to the front of the boat Um And then the soldiers actually got on the boat when they realized that they were safe Um And u and then they started to damage the boat. through the remote camera over the side and the starlink antenna was damaged and thrown over the side and then they took They asked the crew one at a time to come to the middle of the boat. This was in international waters where they have no jurisdiction. Oh Absolutely. this was at least three hundred miles from the shores of Gaza And I estimated at the time it was about ninety miles to a hundred miles from the nearest coast which was the Cypriot coast Um So yes, well in international waters. So it was clearly an act of piracy. there's no doubt about that. And they then conscious of the time, I don't really want to hurry you, but then they they ye you They get you ont to the prison chip Yes, basically, they get us onto the prison ship having searched us and taken asked us to remove most of our clothing. Really? just We're just left with one piece of clothing, your underpant Well, sorry, no.. It would be under pants and a pair of trousers and a co. Okay This was quite cold by then of course. We were then taken onto the rib, taken to the prison ship and once on the prison ship searched again Um More clothing was taken off as my particular I had a Palestine t shirt on that was removed and I was allowed to have another piece of clothing Um and then hands with but tide and we were marched head down Um, into the prison yard, which basically consisted of a number of shipping containers. Um and an area of deck. which was basically the prison yard. and kept there for As it turned out for me, two and a half days for some people, it was three days before we actually got to Um, Ashold in Northern Israel. What happened when you got there, M So when we got Uh two Asstdod, we were again Um, hands were bound and we were taken to a sort of tre tented area and heads bowed kneeled we had to kneel down head to the How did they give that? How did they give that order? How was that articulated Oh, it was just we were pulled to the area. by our hands, by our tired hands And then just said Nil headads down Um And we stayed there for It varied in time. It was difficult to tell, but maybe half an hour to an hour Uh when we were pulled up again, still heads down because they didn't want us to look at anything or it was a humiliation thing. I'm not exactly sure exactly what it was for Um, And then we went into the processing area where there were basically administrators who would ask us various questions try and get us to sign forms to say that we had entered Israeli territory illegally. which was of course a complete joke Um And I'm sure we all made the point that hang on a minute, you brought us here. We didn't come here of our own volition Um You kidnapped us Um, And they were always trying to get us to sign various forms. but none of us signed anything as far as I'm aware. Did you witness actually w I won't ask that yet. I'd ask you just to continue what went on. I know that Claire was worried about it that you'd be in pain. You were photographed, I think, in slightly? Yes. I mean, one of the things I have missed out which I thought was important because it happened to me on the last flotilla as well. U when they were searching you, they would find your medication. And I actually made the point. I said, I do need that. And they said Yeah You're not having this and they threw it away and they said, but we'll get you some We'll get you some new stuff And I Well, I didn't understand that. but I mean last time they didn't get me any and I knew they wouldn't get me any this time either. and as far as I know they didn't I think you asked them at one point why they were doing what they were doing. Well, yes, that was when I was being marched around once we'd gone to the prison Because the after the the processing, which was at Ashdot, we were taken to a prison in the south Cil prison And u Yeah, there they started to get quite violent with us And u I was then Uh forced to take all my clothes off and I was photographed naked Um It was pure humiliation, that's what it was all about. And one of the things one of the most humiliating things was They got us to kneel down and in a line A and we would person behind you would grab your and the person behind him and grab his top and so on. And I guess about twelve of us would then be paraded around the prison complex while we were being photographed and videoed. And we were constantly being photographed. I don't think there was a single moment when we weren't photographed or videed Uh Presumably this was for Benaverss election campaigning. ere you there when Bangavir arrived to do a lap of honor No, I did not I didn't witness that I think that was probably earlier when I got there. I mean, if this is going on, if this is happening to British citizens and French and German and Irish citizens It does rather make one wonder what's happening to other prisoners, most notably Palestinian prisoners away from the public gaze in places that perhaps we willll never find out about. Absolutely, absolutely Actually, it served a purpose for me. It made me realize what the Palestinians were going through. I mean, what I went through was a was nothing compared with what they go through and they go through it continuously You know, they're prisoners. they've got nine thousand prisoners, Palestinian prisoners, four hundred of which are children and they are subject to all sorts of horrific violence And I have to say, I'd like to say this about a particular member of my crew who was a New Zealander, and he was very badly treated He was beaten, he was tasered twice He woke up unconscious on the floor Um And when I saw him much later as we were being deported He looked like a broken man and he was a very, very strong man. and a very valuable member of my crew, so I' really really about that. There have been accusations, allegations of sexual assault by some members of the for. Yes as well, which Yes. mind, you know, me being photographed naked, you could consider that some kind of sexual assault in a way. But yes, there were very serious allegations. of sexual assault Will you do it again, Malcolm I feel I have to. Wh I would consider it I would have to discuss it with my family, obviously But Yeah, it's necessary. nothing's going to change until we change Uh government's mind or the government itself. It is so complicit in it's given Israel Bank check Do what you like Um And that's the way it is Final question, how long were you in the area? years Thank you. Malcolm Ducker, as you heard, part of the Global summit Flatilla which was captured kidnapped. I don't know what word you prefer by the Israeli Defence Force and subjected to some of the privations that you've just heard described. We did contact the Foreign Office and indeed the Israeli Prison Service but are yet to receive a response. Malcolm, thank you so much My pleasure. It's two minutes after one apologies to Sheila Foggty for how late I am.' sk I'll skip the rubric and hand straight over. This has been a Global playlayer original production