Lift Door Mechanisms and Industry Standards

This is a Global Player original podcast Three minutes after ten. So Iran gets three hundred billion quid. The regime is still in place. All of the poor people who were persuaded to trust Donald Trump or Benjamin Netanyahu because they would somehow effffect regime change are in a worse position than they were in before. and Donald Trump is doing a lap of honor Oh, and I don't know that anyone would put money on Benjamin Netanyahu binding to the terms of this deal as opposed to torching the whole thing by continuing his murderous rampage in Lebanon Have I missed anything out? It's so depressing, isn't it? Normally if you make a prediction, it's not like getting the lottery numbers, right, is it Keith? Normally when you make a prediction there is at least a frison. of satisfaction or fulfillment attached to it, but not on this kind of stuff hasn't been for ten years now, almost to the week. It's next week that we celebrate that particular anniversary, although of course the people that won will not be celebrating, which kindind of speaks volumes, doesn't it? More perhaps on that a little later in the programme, but I can't get a phon in out of this I don't think anyone can get a phone out of this really.ot an interesting phone in becausecause who's going to claim? I suppose if you were a Donald Trump fan and you were too embarrassed to admit what a hideous mistake you'd mean by backing him, you might pretend that there was a debate to be had. Is this a good deal? What do you think of it? but that's a bit like having a debate about whether The Pope is a Catholic or bears defecating Woodland glades. I is just ridiculous. abbsolutely ridiculous. I don't think anybody can cl to the notion that this has not once again turned into one of those things that the critics of Trump have been proved completely right about. The other story in the news today involves the criminals involved in the January the six insurrection preparing to apply for millions of dollars in compensation, comppensation for what Um and the second piece of the story is the The so called deal that we have been saying for weeks, I kids you not for weeks was going to look exactly like it looks like and would be greeted by exactly the kind of behaviour that you're seeing. Remember when people used the phrase Trump Drangement syndrome, they were the ones that thought he was a good guy They were the ones that thought he was going to deliver good stuff, all the good stuff Stick littleittle John in the Daily Mail never been more ashamed to be British than when Kirirst Ama declined to join in with this absolute madness, almost certainly illegal, but absolutely certifiably insane behaviour I don't know what he's writing about this week, probablyrobably twenty five year old episodes of Cracker Jack, but here we are. And it doesn't matter anymore It doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter that we're right It doesn't matter that we've been proved right about it because nothing really shifts, the needle doesn't move Donald Trump fans will continue to be Donald Trump fans, in significant enough numbers to make a mockery of reality and I said I wasn't going to talk about it I hate it when this happens. I can't get a phone in out of this because there are no conflicting opinions. What do you think of this deal It's great for the Iranians. The regime hasn't changed. They come out of it three hundred billion dollars for the good and there are absolutely no guarantees in place that they will neither or not end up with a with a nuclear weapon The enriched uranium that Tehran already has appears to have been subject to an unspecified arrangement. although just a couple of days ago, Donald Trump was saying, Hey, it's no big deal. The enriched you. imagine how I mean, Israeli people who are not A haven't had their brains boiled by Benjamin Netanyahu. Imagine how they feel about hearing. Donald Trump say, Hey, don't worry about the enriched, donon't worry about the nuclear dust. That's fine. It's no big deal I've said it before and I'll say it again. He'll tell you on a Monday that u'm bllack is white and he'll tell you on a Tuesday that black is black again. and then on a Wednesday that black is white that up is down That left is right, that peace is war, that ignorance is strengthen that freedom is slavery and on Johny Wello Seven minutes after ten is the time. U M have a little bit of misedinformation for you later in the programme with regard to flags, but it is to the football that we turn our attention next. And it's a story that I've not asked you before. I hear people pretending not to understand why the country has become so divided partarticularly in the aftermath of Joe Cox's sister pointing out that The country has never been more divided. I mean, it's obvious why we have allowed liars and racists to not just contribute to public discourse, but to dominate it in ways that had been successfully excised. For years, notot that many years, but we had a brief pleasant period. Wherein you couldn't use certain words, you certainly wouldn't be able to sustain a political career if you revealed that you hate seeing black people on the television. You wouldn't be able to rise to prominence in this country. If your platform essentially involved hatred of Muslims for the crime of being Muslim. You wouldn't be able to sustain any semblance of integrity if you had greeted the Decision by footballers to take the knee and stadia up and down the country with anything other than approval, a simple gesture designed to express disdain for racism can only be denigrated by people who either don't think it goes far enough, who I respect or people, who don't think that you should be showing disdain for racism in public spaces because racism is great U and and here we go Thomas Dul has addressed the issue, speaking to Sky News this week about racist abuse directed at England players He says he wishes he could just turn it all off, but that that can't happen in twenty twenty six which is precisely the point that I'm making Because if I had stumbled across this morning people using the N word on social media to describe two of yesterday's goal scores, two of last night's goal scorers, then I would have tuned it out ten years ago I would have felt, well, these people don't matter. they have been consigned to the dustbin of history. And while they may persist in this kind of behaviour, the rest of us don't need to care about it A huge part wishes that that was still true. A huge part of me probably tries to persuade myself some mornings that it is true. Don't talk about these people. Don't talk about them. Don't give them the oxygen of publicity. But that does two things. Nber one involves a little bit of head in the sand behaviour and number two, U I think it betrays brilliant Englman, like Jude Bellingam Prd son of Stanbrid I really do. I just think we have a duty as patriots to stick up for our fellow countrymen when they're coming under attack from traitors and racists It occurred to me as I was preparing to talk to you about this this morning Obviously, we've deleted the program from last week where we were expressing profound misgivings about the World Cup and wondering why we all felt such a deep lack of enthusiasm and what on eararth could it mean about the biger? I don't know where that came from. I think someone spiked my tea. I've never seen an England side perform as well as they did in the second half last night. Absolutely magical. If it wasn't for the Croatian goalkeeper, I think we could have scored ten goals genenuinely, it was just I've never seen anything. It was like playing FIFA against someone who's never played it before. You were just peppering the goal aboutbout a ten to fifteen minute period where you thought you were watching Brazil from the nineteen seventies. abbsolutely magnificent. And then of course turn on your Devices in the morning and unless you have your head in a Bucket you encounter the kind of thing that Thomas Toole, the England manager. And one of the things I should have mentioned yesterday How wonderful it is Um What's that song lyric? Now that you're in this world, is it? How wonderful. Anyway. How wonderful it is that our media and our newspapers are now so toothless Asing they don't have the power But also as's not fair, Maybe they've changed a lot. I don't know if you were alive in the eighties or the nineties, but the way that angry old men who would never who thought that they could make themselves happier by turning the whole world into an angry place is to attack our football team in the most hideous ways. and not even in racist ways really Just in hideous ways, just mean attacking the manager, attacking the players. Be this tournaments had even started, they'd be public enemies Numbers one, two, three, four, five, six, seven nine eight, nine, ten and eleven It was It was extraordinary and no wonder we never won anything, even when we had a brilliant team, even when we had great teams. No wonder we never won anything and no wonder we started coming close to winning things When Garis Suke had managed to completely change the tone of the national story, and of course, to defend his players against racism from the kind of people soon to be found try to hang a flag from your nearest lamppost Apart from some nonsense that I didn't really follow about Thomas Toull saying he'd only sing the national anthem if we got to the final, there hasn't been any lazy nineteen eighty style tabloid attempts to turn this tournament into a negative before it even had the chance to be a positive But you can't ignore it. You can't ignore it because as Thomas Touall says You, um You can't turn away from the racist abuse that appears online You just can't. And here he is talking about it I cannot protect them from social media abuse. I would love to protect them and switch all our phones off. That is a solution, but that is maybe not the solution. The most healthy thing would be that we just turn all the stuff off, but it's not happening in twenty twenty six. W young guys. The FA is doing everything to protect them and help them personersally, I can't. I can't just recommend not to not do it I'm going to play that again because I think it should actually be blared out of loudspeakers whenever anybody is pretending not to understand why flags hanging from public property at times not of international sporting tournaments are at best controversial, at worst, downright aggressive. This is all part of the same pattern It's very important that you don't let anybody force you into pretending otherwise or into sort of bothoth sides in it. you've got a council saying we're a little bit worried that the practice of putting these flags up might be aggressive or intimidating. and you've got one of the key people involved in putting these flags up currently under arrest and for suspected murder So I don't know how bent or stupid you have to be, not to understand why there is controversy here at least and quite possibly aggression. and intimidation there at worst. But when a football tournament is going on, it's a slightly different proposition I'm going to play it you again because this should, as I say, be blared out from loudspeakers up and down the country, especially the people that will cheer in England play a cheer in Englishm when he scores a goal and then call him the N word when he misses a penalty. I cannot protect him from social media abuse. I would love to protect him and switch all our phones off. That is a solution, but that is maybe not the solution. The most healthy thing would be that we just turn all the stuff off, but it's not happening in twenty twenty six W young guys, the FA is doing everything to protect them and help them personersally, I can't. I can't just recommend not to not do it Here's a question These people that Thomas Tul is talking about And you know that they are no longer confined sadly to online silos. They occupy positions of prominence in both politics and the media, although as is always the case, when there is a by election unfolding, we will be incredibly careful and conscientious in avoiding any talk of anything remotely political. the rhetoric, the verbal violence, the hideousness is not confined anymore to online silos. In fact, quite the opposite. It's actively encouraged on Elon Musk's platform, indulged, amplified, celebrated and that seeps out into the real world in so many ways, in so many ways and I find it and I hope this doesn't sound Actually, why am I hoping it doesn't sound? It doesn't sound? in any way holier than now. This is what an honest, decent Englishman would say Okay. I don't care what color You are I care about the color of your shirt when it comes to a World Cup I honestly cannot imagine having a different opinion of an England player, of an Englishman because of the color of his skin I just can't imagine it I think actually I've got a question for you Keith has suggested I take an early break, an early bath in fact, and then actually observe the normal rules of radio programes and don't sort of talk for twenty five minutes uninterrupted, squeeze a little advert and take one call and go to the news. I would point out to Keith that this is currently the most listened to speech programe in the history of UK commercial radio, so I must be doing something right, mate Any comment? There is you're right, There is always improvement upight. Um And the people who do care The people who say that they do care, the people who will cheer Jude Bellingham when he scores a goal and call him the N word when he misses a penalty the same with Bukay Sakura or whichever players it may be, I'm going to ask you a question about those people that I've never asked you before in honor of Keith. I'm going to ask you that question after this Hello, James O'Brien here. I thought you might like to know that there's a full disclosure interview with Andy Burnham in the archive that will assume rather more resonance in the coming days, obviously because he has just secured a storming victory in Makerfield, tranling Nigel Farrager's reform Party and setting a probably unassailable course for Downing Street It's a few years old, but it tells you about his childhood in Ary, the journey to studying at Cambridge University, and how he ended up being dubbed the King of the North. Just head over to the full Disclosure podcast right now, and you can find not only that interview with Andy Burnham but a host of other conversations with lots of wonderful guests. Listen on Global Play or wherever you get your podcast James, writes David in Canterury, for goodness sake take a hydration break. That's what we shall call them for the next few weeks, Keith. We'll call them hydration breaks. I quite like them gives you a chance to pop into the kitchen, doesn't it Or when you get mge to use the facilities. But I could see where the crowd does and it does rather break up the play. Je Bellingham in the forty seventh minute, of course was a glorious goal, but Marcus Rashford in the eighty sixth was a little reminder of what that lad went through at the hands of racists, an extraordinarily courageous young man, but my goodness me. It's easy to forget, isn't it? becausecause we move on quickly to the next thing, but the abuse he received Absolutely extraordinary and all beginning. with the taking of the knee, which even people in this profession either professed or pretended to see or not to understand was a simple statement of rejection of racism, endemic and institutional racism, the kind of which we see evidence of every single day. today As Thomas Tuall wonders would happen, you will find people using the N word to describe England players or saying that Africans can't be English, all sorts of of abuses being unleashed upon these giants And the question I've never asked you is this It might be a really stupid question. It might even be a question that only a white person could ask What do they get out of it What do they get out of it? There's been a debate that I haven't joined at all in the last couple of years about whether or not someone is English various weirdos insisting that Rishiunak can't be English because he's a brown Hindu Or presumably the Dude Bellingham, proud son of Stourbridge, can't be English because he's got a black parent, or you can't be English if you're not, if you can't trace your family back to the Doomsday book, or you can't be English if you don't have four grandparents that were born south of Hadrian's Wall but east of Oers's die. I mean, it's such and the debate is conducted even by well meaning people on the other side of the debate as if it's a valid intellectual question peopleople have this conversation and stroke their beards and say things like, well, of course we should I'm Jesetus Why? Why are we even having it as a debate Why is it even a debate something so utterly nebulous. So utterly unscientific as Englishness. We are essentially a mongrel nation You find me someone that can trace their lineage back to the beak of people and I will show you a genuine Englishman or a genuine English womoman One of the best stories in recent years involved Fen Setet. I get you. I love this story There's a bloke in Somerset They found a skull in Cheddar George, right? I think it might have been a Neanderthal skull. It was certainly a very, very old skull. And they somehow managed to do a DNA test on it and they found a teacher in Somerset who was a direct descendant of theoke. who had left a thousand plural year old skull I should probably have got the details of this story in front of me before I waded in on it, but they found him. And I mean I'm not saying that when you saw a photograph of the bloat, you sort of went, Oh yeah, yeah, I can see the resemblance. When you saw a vote with the bloke, you did I mean just incredible, right?? But it does two things. It shows you how ridiculous it is. T think that loyalty to a country or patriotism is anything other than a state of mind. Of course it's not biological or genetic or any of those things. it's a state of mind It's a salute to a flag. It it's an expression of authentic and sincere loyalty It's being on the bridge of the HMS victory with Nelson despite the fact that that had more nationalities and more colors than a rainbow flag. It is insane to have this conversation Englishness is a state am m and The people who pretend that it isn't or the people who believe that it isn't, the people who believe he can't get Daniel Hannan, do you remember him? The mask has slipped. He used to be the sensible Brexiter, the rational one, the one that rejected the racism. He's constantly to be found spouting utter bilge in the Daily Mailland online. He's the bloke that wrote a sort of weird fantasy fever dream about what the country would look like now sppoil alert, it doesn't. But he was on social media yesterday saying I took a phone call from a Frenchman and I asked him why he wasn't watching the France Senegal match. and he said, Well, it's the legal migrants versus the illegal migrants. And you just sort of think, what's wrong with you? Let's have a debate about what the true essence of French is. I mean, how can you be an illegal migrant playing for Senegal It doesn't even make sense. but of course racism doesn't make sense. Daniel Hannan doesn't make sense These things are insane. Racism is a lie. It's a fundamental, massive lie. It turns everybody who is seduced by it into liars and the person that they lie to most effectively is themselves. The king is in English, according to these clowns The king is in English Harry Cane isn't English, according to these idiots, except of course they're both white So they don't mean them Any pretends that it's about family trees or lineage or heritage, or genetics or biology, you just have to flush it down the toilet when a white bloke fails your tests So do They to. Just bunch of numbers with a bulldog avatar as he used to be. now he's out and proud and using his real name on social media and getting paid by Elon Musk's algorithm What do they get out of it Not just online but in real life as well, will begin with a specific focus upon the people who will be abusing England heroes for being black and claiming that they're not English. a position that ten years ago I wouldn't even have wasted Tpence examining, but today, as Thomas Tuchll says, you have to You can't ignore it do they get out of it What is the trade off for racists I understand what the public figures get out of it. They get money, they get status, they get influence, they get profile But what do the followers get out of it? What do the clowns? what do the tragic figures whose lives are dominated by ludicrous arguments about lineage and heritage and genetics, but also att the shallow end of that gene, the shallower end of that gen particular gene pool What do you get out of attacking England football players for not being English because they're black, What do you get out of it What's the transaction? I've tried to think of that. I've u I've thought about it. I've talked about racism because we have to sadly Bea the other lot are winning at the moment. You know they are. You saw it on the streets of Belfast last week, you saw it on the streets of Southport last summer. The racists are winning in this country. You see in labour policies, the racists are winning So you have to talk about, you can't stop fighting. You can't walk away because it's not really my fight. not You have to talk about it. And every now and then every two years something comes along in our sporting calendar that drags the attention absolutely drags the attention back to the absurdity of it all And you realize that so much of the conversation and the discourse is absurd Even sensible people that I admire turning up to debate people about the nature of Englishness. It's insane. It makes no sense. There is no criteria you can put in place that doesn't fall apart after a nanosecond Do you know who your great, great, great, great grandfather was? I remember the first time I took a call from someone who started talking about the indigenous tribes of Northern Europe. I thought then and I thought now you're a bloody idiot, mate But what do you get out of it What's the reward? What's the payoff? What's the premium? What is the racism premium people who aren't in public li for people who haven't commoditized their bigotry. What's the racism and premium for the foot soldiers rather than the generals Because I tell you what you lose, you lose the ability to watch last night with a sense of undiluted wonder and joy You lose the forty five minutes or I suppose technically well it wass more because of extra time, but from the forty seventh minute onwards after the ups and downs, the roller coaster of the first half, you lose that joy. You've sacrificed that. but people have persuaded you to sacrifice the joy of supporting England properly last night on the altar of their bigotry, which they've somehow infected you with. and I don't know what you get in return If you're an ex racist, can you remember? what was the hit? What was the high What was the dopamine If you're a reformed racist, can you remember zero three four five six zero six zero nine seven three. Otherwise the rest of us are going to have to try to work it out together. What do you get? So if I went racist now And there's plenty of people in my line of work who walk tight ropes to varying degrees of efficiency, of racism. Oh I don't know about taking the knee, for example. Yeah, you're racist. What would I get out of it? Would I have even more listeners if I went, I don't know. what about no, no, no, no, not on a professional level. on an internal, emotional or psychological level. If I started thinking I was better than you because you're black, what do I get out of that What do I get? What's the kickback? What's the payoff? what's the premium I know what the famous ones get I know what the ones you can name get We all know what they get. they get power, they get columns. they get U prof they get money, they get status, they get attention. What do you get? What does the ordinary Joe get in return for Employing the sort of racism that sees them watch black Englishmen score goals and decide that rather than celebrate with the rest of us, they're going to attack the black Englishmen for being black is the deal. zo three, four five, sixzero sixzero nine seven three. Dominic Ellis, how's your headlines ten thirty two is the time. A post from the Scotland National team about Andrew Watson, who was born in eighteen fifty six, made history in eighteen eighty one by becoming the first black player to play international association football when he capped Scotland to a six one victory over England. Did you know that? Do you know the story of Andrew Watson from the middle of the nineteenth century? No, you don't. So the Scotland national team stuck it up on social media back in May, and one of the first replies was no N word can be Scottish. and it is from someone who appears to be comfortable using their real name. And it is just one example of the kind of thing that some people who are possessed of stronger stomachs than me are chronicling on a daily basis, and it's happening now and it's happening to our England players. And Thomas Toul has pointed out that you can't ignore it even if you would want to because it's something that they have to deal with And the question I have never asked you before I think I've never asked you before, although my memory is not what it was What do they get out of it What's the trade off? The person sitting at home, whether they've been near social media in their lives or not And they watch Marcus Rashford score a goal or they watch Jude Bellingham score a goal. If their racism extends to Irish people of Irish heritage, they watch Harry Caine score a goal and they shout at the telly, You're not English Or in the case of Rashford and Bellingham, worse. What's the payos comes out at the bottom of the fruit machine. when those three racist lemons appear On the reels Kylo's in Wlkingam, Kylo, what would you like to say? Hi James. You left to bear with me because I have quite bad ADHD, so I cant go left right and center.. But basically, so growing up in South London I was brought up in Brixton and we moved from Brixton to Hounds now. So I played football at a good level, sort of QPR, Brentford, Watford And then moving to Hounds though, there was sort of a divide between Whitton and Felham And this is when I first started experience racism in football. So I was seen as one of the good mixed race people who was allowed to play with with the white people in Felham and Whitton. And I never never understood it how he's a good one. he could play with us, but they can't. And then going from I don't know if I need to say this, but there'll be loads of people from Felton and Whitton who are white, who are utterly I've got family from Whitton as it goes who are utterly repelled by what you're describing, but you're describing what you experience. What I experience. So this is purely my experience playing football and then moving fromound moving from Hounds Low to Wokenham, which is predominantly white I then experienceced playing football being told to go back to Marwellzoo Re whil Yeah, whilst playing a game. a fan on the side of the sidelines. I scored a goal celebrated and he told me to Go back to Mar wells is. So that was one of the team full of white players didn't know what to do, didn't know how to I reckon I was fifteen, sixteen at that point U and I just just like what can what can you do? there was nothing I could do. So apart from continue play and put my head down and I scored a goal. So to me, that was all I cared about And then from growing up watching England play in pubs when a black player with mr. Pennty to hear N word the moment they missed a penalty, but it was fine for white player to miss a penalty. And even the last World Cup in the final, obviously when we lost in penalties feeling and anxiousness of knowing what racism is going to be online what you're going to experience being a mixed race person in a very white area, which it has changed dramatically Wken and it has. but It's just horrible am horrible. I don't know So I'll just ask you, but I would have thought that it was worse Today than it was when you were fifteen I don't remember. I mean, obviously I remember what happened to people like Cyril Reges, you're probably too young and lateratterally to John Barnes and bananas being thrown onto the pitch. but the anti racism initiatives in football were largely successful and then And then something blew the lid off, didn't it? a few years ago? Social media. Social media just it allowed the people who were sort of saying it in their living room to now saying it online, seeing it online. I don't even watch football down the pub because I don't I can't I mean we obviously have different ethnicities. but I can't imagine I genuinely can't imagine. and sometimes I a tri kylo. I hope that doesn't make me sound weird But you know what I do for a living and some of the subjects that come around again and again. So Harry Cane misses a penalty last night. Yeah. The fact that he's white would never feature In my response to that moment, I don't think in a million years, I'm trying to think like a computer just with an endless screed of text rolling down a screen, you know, and what's going on in my brain, whether you know, whether it's like yours with a bit of ADHD or not and it's going off at tangents and you can't fully control it. I mean, unless you've got touttes and you genuinely don't know What is going to come out of your mouth and you will say things that you are utterly and immediately embarrassed and ashamed by, as we saw at the BAFTs. The fact that a white bloke missed the penalty, the whiteness of the bloke that missed the penalty is never going to appear on that screen, even if it spools and scrolls for a hundred years, the fact that he's white is never going to appear never And that's the mind blowing thing that comes to It is mind blowing and as a mixed race person really is it's hurtful, it's painful and it's just I struggle to even sometimes watch England in certain games in case a scenario like that happens. And I mean, my wife will tell well, she won't tell you because you won't speak to her. How you say that, mate. That final, honestly, I was sat in my living room. We had guests round and I said, this is going to be horrendous And I knew it was going to be. And the social media was just exploded with racism. and you just You just think to yourself like you're forgetting Jude Bellingham just scored the bicycle kick to get us through to this You know, everything goes out of their head just the color of their skin. And it is my first call to you because other than the ADHD conversation, which I tried getting through to you, this is something which really, really on my mind because I try to bring my kids up who are more threeree quarter is white, a quarter black I tried to get them to not understand that there is no color. Everyone's the same. and you know if you don't see the person's color, they're just a human. or an Englishman That's exactly it. an Englishman. We are all English and that's what blows my mind. And they're at the elitest level playing football for our country, putting their body on the line to make us win something. I mean What has their colour got to do with? Well also it's the ultimate meritocracy as well, which racists have started using the word meritocracy to attempt to undo attempts to Battle racism, you know, sport. I mentioned the other day you can't be a forormula One driver unless you're brillant I got bombarded with a mention of some poor Canadian bloke who apparently was a rubbish formula onene driver. But generally speaking Genally speaking sport is the great levelller, isn't it? You Absolutely absolutely jp through the ranks and you triumph like these l. What do you think They get out of it. so I mean I'm not making excuses, but you know what it's like at school and you want to hurt someone and you'll pick on something that makes them different. So it might be the fact they're a bit overweight or they wear spectacles or they've got ginger hair or they're black. And on a football pitch with fellow players, maybe with fans, there can be a little bit of that guys are attacking their own side. So it's a completely different impulse. What do you think they get out of? I think like when I was in the pub and I remember hearing the N word being said when I can't remember who's mister Pennet. It might have been stterling or someone like that.acker, I think m. And I looked around and I looked at the person, this is a person who was my friend, by the way. Right. Someone I knew grew up with but school with And I think it's just such an easy target to make themselves feel Nike it's their fault. Nike it's their fault. But because they're black, I'm going to shout this out. It's like a hurtful thing without even realizing what he said, and he looked at me and he said, sorry. And I'm like on your mixure ace mate and you've just said that like And I walked out in the pub and I still to this moment, I cannot understand what made him think it was okay to set at that point. I'm not sure we will You know, don't I mean, I'm sticking with this until it leach eleven o'clock, but I'm not sure it is something that can be articulated. Even by the people that did if you said to him, what did you get out of that then? That's what I don't get and I cannot understand it. And I've experienced it throughout my life. So one of my rules are as having white friends is I don't want black jokes, don't ine use me as a joke or like silly little sly comments people make I't mean you. Oh, I don't mean you, mate. Yeah ye right right. Yeah, you're a good one. That's it. I'm not that I'm not that person. so please don't be like that with me and please don't make me a joke. just like you wouldn't with a gay person or anything like that. But for some reason, when it comes to sport Hllllow easily defined. And it's It horrible. It's just horrible. And I wonder, listen, I'm going to stick with it. I don't think I'll get a better call than you, but we're no closer really to knowing what they get out. Do you think your mate who use the N word? And forgive me if this is a crass question because it might be it might be a The question to which the answer is obviously, yes, is he racist Well, this is what I don't this is what's so difficult. It's like you don't do it in every like you don't do it in any other scenario. You're not saying it in any other scenario, but the moment someone misses a pair at penalty cololour comes into play. And I think Janes since that's all right. We just had to lose a little bit of that because there is a by election underway and we're not talking about politics. You know I don't apologise. It's my job to keep an eye on that, not yours, but the national conversation, we can say has changed in recent years changed in recent years it is in I I went for a stage of growing up at school not experiencing any form of different identity to other people Be it was it had been outlawed effectively because of theEI initiatives and because of anti racist programs Yeah, yeah. and it was I mean it got to the point now where recently where I would go to quotes, I own a business, I wouldd go to quotes and I'd get worried being a different colour compared to other people and what effect that could have on me when' work? Yeah. Like that's how it's got to you now. going backwards. I mean, obviously we're going backwards. You can see that in the expressions of civil disobedience or violence on the streets of our towns and cities, which is actively fermented and encouraged by People whose names we all know, but of course the low level stuff, that's just the high level stuff. That's just the pogroms and the riots The low level stuff is going to be the language that's used in pubs in front of mixed race Qote friends. And of course, the underlying fear that someone is going to be looking at you and changing their opinion of you based on the color of your skin which would involve me watching Harry Cane missing a penalty I mean, how many black people do we think watched Harry K miss a penalty and decided immediately to focus on his whiteness? Listen, maybe there are a few. I don't know. But how many black people watched Harry Kane miss a penalty last night? Thank God, it got excised from the record books, although I don't know what the hell he thought he was playing at with that little stutter. They watched Harry Kane miss a penalty and they immediately attacked him for being white Bea remember, anti white racism in this country is off the flipping charts So presumably, under the analysis of our society from the people who claim that anti white racism is off the charts, Harry Kaine is going to need a police would have needed a police guard if that penalty hadn't been retaken becausecause everyone's going to be attacking him for being white, including, I don't know, police forces that are ninety six percent white because they're anti white racist as well. according to some people U I don't I mean can you get past that observation there? How many people of colour? of any color responded to Harry Kainnes potential penalty miss by attacking him for being white So Kylo and I so far have failed, although he's been a heck of a lot more articulate than I have to work out what they get out of it Oho three four five, six zero six zero nine, seven three ten forty nine is the time. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC. Buckle up. I want to launch a new feature But he still had just his face just fell Eleanor is looking increasingly hurried. I haven't told them yet what this feature is. I'd like to do a feature cold. Mystic gym Jim I don't have to speak first before I launch new features. And what it will involve is me circling back to headlines or stories that make clear that something I predicted a while ago has come gloriously or ingloriously true And what it would involve is a spooky voice going Mystic J And then maybe some music like the music from Tales of the Unexpected. You remember that music from when we were kids? Are you're too young, probably I mean, the lazy bit would be the tlights. In fact, pretty much all music you hear on the radio is articulation of laziness. We're talking about Ulez, his drive by the cars. But occasionally I think the exception proves the rule. So you'd play usually play the twilight zone music if you're doing something spooky, wouldn't you dooo do M Jam As I do that, I'm realizing that's probably how it's going to end up because I never get any production. Biggest show in town I don't get anything. If I was Einily Ml this, I'd have it al reready I'd have it before I'd thought of it If I was Emily Maitless, I'd be sitting here on the news agents and I'd go, Ohh, I've just had an idea. and the producer of the news agents would go, Ohh yes, we've been expecting you. Here's the production and the title of your new feature. Here it is. But me, little old me? I sit here come up with brilliant feature ideas like unhinged headadline takes about eight months to get a jingle. U Woke watch. We haven't done that for a while, have we It takes about two years., there you go. It better late than ever I get nothing. so I quite like Mystick Gym. and I've got two contenders for Mystick Gyimm today. One of which is kind of obvious and one of which is slightly less so, both of which I've already told you, but I'm not going to letstand in the way of a bit of fun ust giving you a quick heads up. new new feature Inoming. So probably by February of twenty twenty seven, we'll have a jingle. wasas that a bit optimistic, Keith, do you think But optimistic. february twenty twenty seven, stand by for a brilliant new feature with production and jingles and stings even you can call them on the James O'Brien showhow. So here is the first episode of D d Myistake jam d d d. claims total victory with Iran deal How many times did I tell you that was going to happen? And that the deal would be absolutely nothing of the sort. It would leave America in a weaker position, Israel completely sidelined and Iran even strong, but not even strong because they're not strong. Iran's murderous vile regime in a stronger position than it was before So there is the first episode of Is Im going to get a ticky throat if I do it again, I'll do a quiet ion D This is what it'll end up sounding like D d Mystic j D coming soon to a radio coming not soon to a radio near you seven fifty two is the time. Gary's in Wilamstes to steer us back to the serious question, which I don't know we can answer But we're going to talk about the subject behind the question anyway What do these people abusing Black English football players get out of Behavior, Gary ifficult questions to answer. You've heard the show before, mate, you know how its? I've heard the show for the last twenty five years and mearly, let's not get carried away. It's not quite it's about twenty two, I think, and counting. Do you know what Elsso never got? Do you know what ellso never got, Gary Never got a party, never got an anniversary, never even got a pat on the back. O people other people get like special programmes dedicated to their greatest hits and finest m I got nothing. Nhing D't even get didn't even get lollipop I'll do a barbecue for you j. cheers, let me know. Cers, cheheers. I like chicken wings this season. I' do we a chickenisten. I grew up in the early seventies as a young man in east of London. Right And Ill probably can't explain to you what they get from it. But I don't want to offend anyone that's got a religion. But it is a little bit like religion because These people from birth been bred to think that they are superior to just about anyone that's not white and they genuinely think that. So they continue need to reinforce that and that belief So anytime there's something that indicates to them that They're not better they have to find a way to deniggrate it and knock it down I fought for England in karate in the eighties I'm sitting in the European Championships in Paris with my colleagues and we were talking about something And then one of my colleagues, white person said, Well, but you're not really English Wow. Yeah, exactly. And you know what, to this day it doesn't haunt me, but I just kind of think I mean, being English or Scottish or Welsh or African has nothing to do with you as an individual. You didn't choose. Like when people say, if someone said to me, are you proud to be English I willll say not necessarily because I't well in actual fact, I'm probably more m proud it because my parents chose to come here than someone that's born here who was just by accident, you were right of someome of us are born English, some of us achieve Englishness and some of us have Englishness thrust upon us. Yeah. So these guys when they go out and they have to shout and you know, lack of self esteem is something that I believe com to me in terms of that. you've been taught Since you were born that the sky's pink, then you go outside and you realize the sky's actually blue. But you won't accept that. You just can't accept it because that's what you've been taught. and as you say When the facts change, you change your mind. withith those people, when the facts change, they don't change anything at all. They continue believing the lie because they need to reinforce their superiority. You know me as a black person, I could be well there I be doing brilliantly in lifeine. I move on to a sink state and no matter what The white people in that state will immediately look at me as less than men. Some of them A lot of them and a lot lived on I've lived on those mistakes I've lived on those estates. I grew up on a counter estate. And they can't and under this analysis, they have very little choice in the process. It's conditioned like religion Yeah,olutely. Well, you know, I mean, I'll give you an example. My neighbour when we were younger, you. he used to two things. The neighbourorss got a petition to have us kicked out because we were go under the first black. families in the area. They actually wrote to the council.. Now my neighbour, after they realized we weren't going to eat them, they used to come to our house, my same aag as my younger brother. He would sleep over, they would have our food and all the rest of it. So from probably at the age of about five or six, when they got to about fifteen, sixteen, they were having a discussion with my sister. And he said to my sister, I would never go out with a white girl that's been out with a black person. in your house Yeah, this is in the garden in the front garden. And she said, And she mentioned my brother's name. She said, Oh no, but no, no, can't count him. And these are people that we grew up with. we were supposedly best friends. you know, we spend hours playing football on the field But it's just there.'s grade. were Yeah we were better educated than them. Even now when I look back, we've done far better than them in terms of socially, financially, all those sorts of things. But we you know but in their head, we were always inferior And if the truth then confronts you and you can't accept it, you've got to find a way to de It's like a feief, isn't it someone that steals swings has to convince themselves that what they're doing isn't wrong because if their conscience kicks in and tells them that it's wrong, they will find it difficult to do. As you would, you'd find it almost impossible to walk into a shop and steal something and walk out without the guilt kicking in But they have to continually convince themselves, I'm not doing anything wrong Because otherwise, you would not be able to sleep. So you have to shut down a part of your brain whichich is that racist element of it. As I said,ve I don't believe black people are racists. They're prejudice, but I don't believe they're racists. And the reason I'll give you for that is you can't tell me any group of Back people or any nation of black people that have said, we are superior to whites. Germany has tried to prove that they're superior to blacks England have, Portugal have, the Spanish have, the Chinese have, Japanese have, the Belgians have all and some of them actually doing experiments to prove that So so that is I think and you know, I have to be allowed to think out loud on the programm. I think that that is a graph that you describe on that graph Eugenics is at one extreme But on that graph is the debate that has been allowed to spring up recently about Englishness, about the idea that you can't be English because you're black or if you can prove to me that all eight of your great, great grandparents or sixteen or I can't remember. Do you see what I mean? It's such a nebulous argument, but they're trying to pretend that it's scientific or they're trying to cloak it in statistical relevance. Rishyun that can't be English because he's a brown Hindu. Just bog off James, I'll give you one little fact. I had to go and do some work in the West Is in Ireland. I won't identify the island It was when my mother died. We had land out there. Well I had to try and try and find some documents. So I was going to the registry office. Do you know you know who were the major owners in the seventeen hundreds of the property It was a guy called Copeland from Liverpool and the Church of England R Yeah, well that's what you say about turning off your conscience, isn't it? So you're in church learning that all people are equal. It's a bit like the kind of characters who use the phrase Judeo Christian values these days, which is used to somehow justify attacks upon people who look different from them. It's the least crrist you see a lot in Trump's administration. It's the least Christian position imaginable. I'm late for the news, but I want to ask you something else. Yeah. from the outside looking in things got a lot better. and Kylo agreed with this. and you whether you're looking at Gary Southgate's tenure as the England football manager and the incredible work he did and encapsulated in that letter, the Dear England letter, which is now a stage play and a television film Or if you just remember the days of bananas being thrown onto pitches and the anti racism campaigns that were specific to football. The thing I don't know is whether or not the people you're describing We're still having these conversations at home even though they knew they were no longer allowed to have them in public. And now we're watching the slow and increasingly quick return to them feeling perfectly comfortable having these conversations in public. Elon Musk actively encourages it and indeed pays them to do so. Do you think all of those conversations still carried on Despite the fact that the public space had been sanitized. Yeah, I can give you two examples. When I first started as an apprentice in East London, I remember going to the door with the electrician. he was white. The person opened the door said, you can come in, but he can't And I had the similar thing just yesterday because I still work for a local authority. I was trying to find an address on an estate. and there was this flagged up property. and all I heard was the S word and the N word. Eenw. I'm so sorry Now are you done it? Listen, James. I can't help. I know you, but you just, you know what? it's Wal R a ducksb back because if you take that on board, if you take that on board, you'll go crazy. You simply cannot. And when when my oldldest son first became able to drive, the first thing I said to him, you're going to get stopped If youve got any issues and they will allow you to ring the phone ring me, but just don't do anything, let them do whatever they need to do and get on your way. Don't antagonize, donon't do anything at all. That was my first Yeah, but Gary, come on mate. was that was before the police became anti white I know. And you know just sry't say any names. donont say any names a by electional? No, actually I was going to tell you, I can't tell you because the person that I was going to talk about could properly identify me Its not a nasty thing but it' an ironic. let's save it for that barbecue. Yeah, deffinitely. All right R than you. It a pleasure. Che Gary You take care. Thank you, mate It's two minutes after eleven, you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. Six minutes after eleven. The country is more divided than ever before. Ohh, let's have a conversation about why that might be. says nobody sensible ever. because we all know why it is it's crystal clear. Racism is back with a vengeance Elon Musk will pay you for being racist on his social media platform Media and political figures are being fated and rewarded for being racist People who call for pogroms can achieve folk hero status in this country at the moment being incredibly racist And England football players can be abused in terms that were once confined to the national front and their closest Aollytes in broad daylight on social media platforms, particularly the one Elor Musk owns that the government still uses to complain about racism platform where you get paid for being racist, you get paid and promoted for being racist Oh and here's the government using it to complain about racism Rid all me that But a question I don't think we can answer. Actually, that's not true. Gary did a pretty good job of answering it. Kylo did did a pretty good job. they both did brilliant js in different areas. Gary addressing the question, Kylo reminding us what it would feel like. And I'm thinking about the men and women Who abuse bllack English football players for not being English or for being black or both And I'm wondering what they get out of it. And that is a question that I think is worth worrying at because if you work out what they get out of it, you're going to be able to do a much better job of diffusing it I hate the way that public school educated bigots have used the phrase working class in recent years as a synonym for racist, as as if being working class or being at the lower end of the socioeconomic scale somehow makes you hate people who are a different color from you. I think education must play a part. I mean, there's clearly a correlation between the less educated people and given the improvements to education in this country over recent years you're more likely to be older as well. So older, less educated people would once have been the focus of a conversation like this, but I'm afraid that that thesis is losing power every day When you see people who are neither old nor under educated or poorly educated coming around to the point of point of view that bllack people are not English or black people are inferior, having debates about it on you know, podcasts and grown up Pgrams It's nuts. You don't have a debate about that any moreore than you have a debate about whether women can be pilots It's insane But it used to be normal and it's becoming normal againgain What do they get out of it? And listen, me have a quick look in the old in books. Here's one Um, This is from Ian. so Ian could give us a ring and tell us what he gets out of being racist. Buckle up kids. It's time for a few hours of the James. If you don't agree with me, you're a racist, poorly educated right wing facist O'Brien show ople hate facism. It's terrible, Ian you know How dare you conflate poor education with ignorance and racism Because poor education is something that's done to you, of course. It's not something that you're born with, like skin colour. But Ian isn't going to ring me, I don't think, and tell me what he gets out of being beinging facist or racist becausecause I don't know that he knows. All he knows is that he's listening to this radio program and he's hearing a description of himself This is a great cur E of our success in recent years is that we hold up a mirror, and awful lot of people really, really hate what they see. What is the trade off? Be at the moment, Ian, you're feeling awful. You're feeling like u, all dirty and ashamed. God he means me I'm the kind of person that uses the N word to describe English football players when they miss a penalty. o I hate oh dear It's I knoww they I'll attack him I'll attack games. I'll send him a message calling him names What's the positive So that's the negative. That's I can see how bad you feel at a moment like this. But when you're shouting inward at the tdy, what's the positive? What's the good feeling that you get in? zero three four five sixzero six zero nine seven three is the number that you need. And speaking of mirrors, it was interesting what Gary said about water off a duck's back and obviously I'm never going to be a potential personal target of classic racism or traditional racism, or possibly any form of racism. But a callooler earlier this week alluded to some of the craziness that is sometimes flung in my direction online. and there was one this week I felt I might bring to your attention because the person that was doing it was sort of adjacent to my own profession, a former fashion editor of the Jewish Chronicle Taking to Facebook, to write absolutely shameless and egregious lies about me, which be proven to be lies simply by listening to the show we did earlier this week about the situation in the Middle East. But I haven't yet decided whether or not I'm going to draw that to your attention in full because like Gary, I just wonder, should you let all this stuff wash over you? Or should you occasionally stand up and say, you, madam, are a shameless liar Well I don know because you tagged me tag the radio station, which kind of makes it public. but I don't know. it's a It's not often I find myself having this internal conversation and now of course with you an external conversation, but it was because of the Rent Boy conspiracy theory with Kir Starmer that it just set me off thinking, do we need to stand up to this more even on a personal level I don't mean the people on social media who've given up trying to argue with any of the points that I made by accusing me of living in a gated community or being drunk all the time or being smelly. Or whatever else it is. you see a point, Here's James O'Brien explaining things that make me feel stupid. I know. I'll call himup I'll call him smelly or I'll call him an alcoholic or I'll call him ugly. There you go. that'll teach him. That proves that his points are al right. So I don't mean those people, I can't help them. But I mean people who sort of claim to be journalists or profess to be professionals when they start lying about you. explicitly on public platforms. Is it something that we should start being a little bit I don't know Do you give them more oxygen by highlighting their ludicrous lies And this woman was claiming that my attitude to the murder of innocent Palestinian people was a consequence of going to The London School of Economics in the early nineteen ninety. I mean you sort of think how boiled must your brain be? Not only to tell egregious and shameless lies about somebody whose words are literally available on the global player, as well as the LBC app and everyday weekday from ten on LBC, but I'm going to go on Facebook and tell egregious and shameless lies about you E though they're so easily checkable. I don't know whether or not we should be doing more about that, but I'll probably decide by twelve o'clock today But more importantly, We are looking at the question of what you get out of it. So I think I know what she gets out of, attacking me on social media. I think she gets to cling to the notion that Benjamin Netanyahu who hasn't betrayed everybody, whether you're a supporter of Israel or a tireless critic of Israel by prioritizing his own self interest over everything. I think she gets to pretend that anybody who thought Donald Trump would be acting in the interests of anybody other than himself is um, being vindicated and validate all the people being proved right about what's happened in Iran must be dodgy Because I'm one of the people being proved horribly. I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud U The question of what a racist gets out of being racist is one that I've got a funny feeling. we're going to return to again and again and again in the future. Right, spepecial prize for anyone who knows what Keith just said in my ear Yeah, well done everybody. It's time for a hydration break. It is sixteen minutes after eleven and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC where We are inevitably, as Thomas Tuchl told us we would have to, turning our attention already as the champagne is still fizzing in our metaphorical glasses after yesterday's brilliant victory for England. two of the three sorry two of the three goal scorers, two of the four goals scored by Black Englishmen and that boils the blood Oh, many so called patriots, patriots who have louder voices today than they have had for years, and we're trying to work out what they get in return, what they get out of it The kind of people who normally populate idiots corner. on this programme, what do they get out of it What's the trade off? What's the kickback Because we know what the famous ones get And we know now what some of the ones who aren't even famous, but they've got big followings on social media. they get clout and now thanks to Elon Musk, they get money. What do the ordinary ones get? The ones shouting the N word at the tellelly in the pub, even though they're mix race friendsces sitting behind them Kevin's in Brentford, God's own country. Kevin, what would you like to say James,s good to talk to you.. Very quickly. I'd like to just relay an anecdote. I used to run a football team in West London. And we used to play at fairly high level the ammateur Leagues on Sunday And we were playing in Richmonds Richardson Evans. which is off the Kingston byypass, near the Robin Hood roundabout. Chang in rooms were shared, okay Yeah Okay. so we got there early, my team Predominantly African Caribbean black guys one white one or two white guys. And we were nice and early in the changing room. and then the opposition turned up and within team There's always a hierarchy of who's got the biggest mal Men it's a banta thing So the guys, the opposition turn up mouth his mouth a euphemism here or do we mean who you mean as in who's who's got the loud voice is it? Who's got the loudest voice? who' the leader? Wh's the leader? who's the the wolf in the pck the Alpha. Okay? So The opposition turn up and we're in there on our side of the changing room getting changed and the words echoed in the changing room were alloy, lads Mind your wallet Right. Okay? Yeah I know what that meant All of my guys knew what that meant and all of guys who were on the opposition knew what that meant The game took place, okay? And we won and things transpired on the halfway line when everything was down the opposite end, and I'll say no more about that. But that moment was a Trump card for that guy in his little T to be able to say, well, we have got a bit of power here. So it's coded, but everybody knows what actuallys. It's a dog wasisk. Yeah. And it doesn't it doesn't always has to be coded. No. you know, that would, you know, you get a met mat micro new macro sign stuff going on.. And in that instant, it was a bit lkay, but we all knew and they knew because it was a reference to Aud these guys I' going to nick your stuff of course And what did he get out of that He got a fat lip not in the changing room. I did' in the course of the game. I did you d in the course of the game I didn't mean that. no, no. you know I didn't you mean that. but I love You've got commic timing to die for. But what in terms of what the good feeling he got? What did he get? Was that momentary triumph front of his tears. where he was top dog And there is a very, very famous anecdote about Richard Prior and Gean Wilder trading trading epithets. Yeah And It goes on for a while. He's a this, you're a that. You're a this, you're a that until ultimately, Gene Wilder uses the Alpha epithect, the N word. Right and everything stopped. There was nothing else that could be said. because I don't know Europe Europeans, white people, English people, English speaking world and others, they know in that context Nothing can trump that. little moment of power if you deploy such language because it's so It's loaded It's ultimate, the ultimate power. Be it because it because it conjures up centuries of oppression and supremacism. even people who wouldn't be able to tell you the date of anything know that it's got they can feel its power even if they don't understand it and could never articulate it. They know it's a Trump card, even though they don't really know the rules of the game Yes, yes. and you onn the receiving end of that No that that ultimately what will always come into play at some point becausecause the dominant cultural ideology for the past five six hundred years' been European and that embedded within that has been the discourse the institution, etc of a racial hierarchy And And if you love racial hierarchies, you're currently dedicating all of your energy to pretending that the police are anti white and that diversity, equality and inclusion initiatives are somehow a bad thing. Yes, Yes. Be you can feel it beginning to slip away. and now the direction of traffic is in the favour of the people who love the racial hierarchy who need it and the people who deploying this stuff They would have been the ones who would have been laughing on the side of that guy in the changing room back in the day. Or they would have been, their pearents may well have been the ones who would have gone pee basashing at weekends in West London as part of the Chelsea Sed boy era. okay? because that was part of the discourse as well. Deeply embedded, it ebbs and flows we're in a prime cycle now where it's everywhere. And it's not being put down by the major power brokers on the other side of the Atlantic. They're es spouse in it as well. So We we're in big trouble at the moment Did you ever relax a bit in recent years. Did you ever think things because Tony Ben said a wonderful thing that I didn't really understand at the time about no victories ever being permanent. And I think when they It was when they repealed Roe versus Wade in the United States of America that I finally understood what he meant. You know, I grew up thinking that Women having bodily autonomy and access to abortion was now the normal. That's it now. That victory is won forever. and then suddenly it was snatched away again. Did you ever relax and think things had got better for good No, because what you have is this always been an underlying factor The misogyny has always been an underlying factor. It plays its part in the power broken game. So if we're playing Trumpss, Ultimately, you get put down if you're female, you can get put down if you're black And you have this it's very strange, but the English do it in a particular way because And I'm sure the Americans do it as well, but I don't know that you know, that you The footballers It's a very, very it's it's hurtful. it's powerful that you I mean, I've been prompted to call your show. I listen A lot. Thank you. Okay. And I'm very impressed with the discourse that this cours is that you have This is kind of like up my street because And I am mixed race. I'm coaching seventy and It's been a major part of my life's discourse since day doop. And I won't go into all of that, but I understand. seventy years on. It's still there. Page new metaphorically. Yeah. I mean, it did it did it did seem to be in retreat th. Did't it? I mean, some of the initiatives work. There would have been changing rooms in which nobody would have Dared to say those things because and then everyone started going, o political correctness is out of control or everyone' so woke and then lo and behold, we're back where we were Yes, yes. it's been the fight now is being fought in slightly different way. It's not in your face Behind your back Yes. It's not fake you know the guys were brave to come in the changing room and do that back in the day, but they don't need to now. They can do that in all sorts of other ways. And they wouldn't dare do that to my face at my front door or in my neighborhood or your neighborhood or in West London, et ccetera, et cetera. unless we're in the same neighborhood. Yeah Well, yeah, but you know, Yes I live in Bntside I guess we're Westondon. I live in Brentford. Do you not live in Beverly? You're just pass me through? No, no, no. My family My family are from West London.. And my mother's side we're from Felham and I could tell you a few stories about Felham and what was like back in the day. Hs up a lot in these conversationst? Felham and Fulham working class neighborhoods that were pretty pretty I pretty hairy for people like you. Very, very difficult. Yeah back in the day and they' much improved. and so we can't deny the optimism. And as I say, I'm mixed raceed and there are multitudes of mixed race folk out there now. So we shouldn't really be having this discussion. I we should But we have to have it And why does it raise its head, James? Why does it keep doing that? It's primarily because there's a by election today. You can't mention any politicians No, no, no, notothing to do with political figures. It's power and Power is being shared and people don't like it being shared. So the Americans didn't like power being shared when they put a black man in the White House. No they didn't Right. And we are facing the repercussions of that today. the fallout, shall we? the flat from that And we have the same problem here. They don't like seeing a brrown face leading the Tories etcet, a deputy prime minister in question prrime minister's questions talking about whatever. That status, it's It's reserved. It's reserved for people who look like us, who look European, who look white in the grand scheme of their plans They've never accepted that theseese differences are here and are here to stay unless we go back to the discourse of nineteen thirties Germany And they and the desperate need to And you know, we can't go back there You know, we can't. It won't happen. It won't happen in America that'll go back to Jim Crow and plantations and everybody know in their place. It's not going to happen. There there's been this underbelly of resentment that's there and there's an opportunity now and's what it isn't it? It's always about opportunity and always about making things worse for absolutely everybody exxcept the opportunists Because I don't think the people shouting N word at the television are having their lives improved by being allowed to do that again in a p. Momentarilyentily Momentarily it's giving them a kick, isn't it? I guess. And what we've got happening now, it's kind of mirrors some of the stuff that went on back in the day. Back in the day when people in the states used to circulate postcards of lynching victims widely publicized in the twenties and before that, okay. What we've got now is this opportunity where we can post send postcards metaphorically we don't like about these dark skinned. That good point And you know, you know, it's there. I don't know the fact they're in an England shirt. I don't know the fact they're in an England shirt, but I can't say that until they miss a penalty. can't Well I can And bottom line of the discourse, James, is that we sing rule Britania Okay Britons never, never, never shall be So there is this inherent part of the nationalism course It's that it's we Better than them. I never spotted that and which is why I could never s certain national songs on behalf of the nation. since I grew up as a boy and I sang with Gusto The songs I sang, the national anthem and all that, but not Since I had one Oire since as a late teenage. They qued understanding it. I started to understand that this was not about me. They don't It's not me. It's about preserving that degree of power And that's just another part of that same conversation Oh away let' Mind your wallets You know, and the stuff going on online where they can post Send postcards. horrible vile terrible postcards about other human beings And then, you know, and there we go. And then we've got to sing Rberturna never And I'll just put this in as a last point. G on The young men who sing the national anthem when lined up Take a good look And look who's singing. Some of sing Some mumble, some don't say anything, because some of them are in families where there is this discourse And the discuse is that, well We were So violly, terribly treated by these people Wh sang this song two hundred years ago or one hundred years ago And And I know if I were one of those players out there, I wouldn't be able I would be proud to going to put the show on and stand there, but I'm not singing because I'm not celebrating hes It's never been part of, it's never been analzed. It's never been unpicked properly and moved on. The Marseillie, the French National anthem is great. The Welsh National anthem I would sing with Gusto. loveove it. But you know, the English one, which we hold on to dearly is another m It's another part of discourse. And course's so huge Yeah And that's why people are so desperate to shut it down. Kevin. That's why they don't want people to be taught about history. You don't need to read Satnam Sangira's work to know about the realities of empire and the realities of colonialism, but I don't feel any guilt about that as a white person because it had nothing to do with me, but I want to understand it and I want to know it. and if I don't understand it and I don't know it, then I'm not going to stop the impulses that you've just described in absolutely hair raising Yeah, we need we need to the conversation needs to be had and it's, you know, you're not it's not you your fault. It's not my mother's fault. My mother's family's fault They look poolor white from West London, right? Sure It's not their fault We need to have the discourse. The conversation needs to take place Be that line there. I mean, I don't know whether I should apologize for not having spotted that before. Britons never ever shall be slaves. What does that say to Black Britainons? It says you're not British. And doesn't it It says you're not Brit Brown Britons because Back people were slav. Saves enslaved as well. Yes of, etcetera So it says you are not you're not part of this but when they reach a point where you can't be acceptable. And you know it's sad But it's part of our dis course as human beings. and it will take multi generations, James for us to get to the point where there's a solution you got to keep remain forward. You got to Your great grandparents and my great grandparents probably couldn't read. Yeah We can read now et cetera, etcetera. So you we discour is taking place slowly, it's evolving, but it's multi genererational and probably in my children and my grandchildren have this conversation daily. weekly whenever it raises its head. Maybe in fifty, sixty years, it won't be such a major issue But you know the struggle continues, James and education is the key. Well and you know, the other conversation we were thinking about having today was about role models and you are one evin. I hope you don't mind me saying that thirty three minutes after eleven, you've educated me and you know me. I think I know it all. Who's Domina Gallis with your headlines OkayK, thirty six minutes after eleven, I don't know if this is a mark of neurode diversity, but you know how my brain works sometimes. I thought that Kylo referencing his ADHD was a lovely thing that people now feel that they can do in public in ways that perhaps once would have been a lot more stigmatized. But you know, I've got this obsession with tying things together and knitt knitting things together Here is a crazy one. okay. You heard earlier about the black British man, the bllack English man. who returned to his mother's home island in the Caribbean. And remember that when we took over the Caribbean, we told all the people there they were English or British and discovered when he was looking for the deeds to the land that his family owned that in the seventeenth century a lot of it had been owned by the Church of England, right And that shouldn't have come as a major surprise to you, but but it may have done. becausecause of course the Church of England, like almost every English institution, wasas it Kevin who'd gone back to the Caribbean I think it may have been. and every British institution, every English institution that existed then and still exists now will have made a ton of cash out of slavery out of a plantation. So you're holding that thought in your head during this bigger conversation? And then you get on to that incredible point about the lyrics of Rural Britannia and the recognition of the implicit white supremacism in the argument that if you're somebody who can be enslaved, i. e., a person of colour Th you are then you are not British because Britons never, never, never shall be slaves So if you come from a lineage that was enslaved, then you can't be British. I had never spotted that before, but I'll tell you something but nothing. I'm never going to unspot it now. I'm never going to unspot it now And then you come to my observation that there this is why so many people are so keen to shut down discourse about Britain's colonial history or slavery or or empire even, but because the reality not only makes racism so much easier to understand and therefore diffuse because racism was an absolutely crucial part of it But it also robs people in the modern world of any rationale or justification for their own bigotriies. Are you still with me? These things are you see the links And then I get sent an unhinged headline. Literally, I propose nothing in particular that we have been discussing, just you saying to me, hereere's a bit of a doozy James And that unhinged headline, I think, keue the music unhinged headline is not inevitably, but unsurprisingly in the Daily Telegraph and it is this. I voted remain In twenty sixteen, the last ten years have made me a convinced Brexiteer. So you think two things. you think boy and you think who the hell wrote that? So you look at who wrote it and it's a bloat called Nigel Bigar And you remember, if you've got a brain like mine, that Nigel Biggar is one of the big voices that you phone up if you want somebody to, for example attack or criticise the Church of England for setting aside compensation funds for the descendants of people that they profited from the enslavement of you see you see what I mean It's extraordinary how so much of what's happening now has links and roots in so much of what happened before. And I mean like night follows day, Nigel Bger was put in the House of Lords by Cammy Ben off For his sterling work in telling us all why slavery was not something that we should be particularly interested in because everybody was at it. And you certainly shouldn't be if you're the Church of England acknowledging your very unchristian behavior three hundred years ago by setting aside compensation funds for the territories that are still blighted and the people whose existences are still blighted by the legacy of all those years. And if you don't understand what the legacy of all those years of enslavement were then look at the lyrics of Ral Britannia. sometimes it just falls into your lap, doesn't it this stuff Roy's in myland, Roy, what would you like to say Hello morning, James. Great show as always. Great great show. Very. Thank you very much. Thank you very What it is, James? I'm born Milland, growrewed up in Milland, grew up in Mland, went to West Aam when Clyde Bess was playing So when I went there, I was about seven first time other so that we need monkey chanting everywhere. I couldn't believe it You know, the whole ground monkey chanting, you know to this man and you know, is just And ever since then I've tried to engage with the West AM people on the message boards, but it's full of racism all the time, you know And you're seeing what you said What do they get out of it? Yeah. I don't understand what they get out of it. I've tried to work out all my life I don't understand. you know, because recently I said, is it jealousy? turning into envy, turning into hatred? Is that it I don't understand, you know? I can't I can't never feel like I want to put on an English top and say, come on England. I'll never want to do that Unfortunately. No Well, I can understand why if you've been exposed to that from such a young age. And yet they wouldn't I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I can't imagine you would ever watch Harry K miss a penalty and start screaming about how white he is. Never just That's why we can't explain it, Roy, I think. That's why we can't understand it. I mean explain it. W some of the answers we've heard make sense, but they make intellectual sense. and maybe they make a little bit of emotional sense If you've never felt it, you will you will never feel it. It would be like you watching Harry Cane fluff the first penalty last night and start screaming about how bloody White he is That's right. And I think what it is fewuring your call as they said something like being said the superiority you your superior. Which is a great thing to do if you're not, isn't it? If you're, you know, if you're I don't know, if you've got millions of pounds in the bank and you're worried about people beginning to wonder why, you tell that bloke over there who hasn't got a pot to pee in. you tell him he's superior. They didn't was it Lyndon B. Johnson who said Something about this. you just convince the white man that he's superior to the black man and he'll be in your pocket for the rest of his life Yeah, ye. it's a very sad situation because I've got children now and I don't want them having to go through what I went through Do you think they will? Unfortunately, yes, but did you think that ten years ago? Did you think that ten years ago? Yes, I think evenven though some people say to me, oh, do you think it's racism still? Of course there is. there is You know, and I'm mixed race. so I'm biased, you know, like like a few of the callers My mom's white woman, my dad's Jamaican, black, you know. So we've got to deal with this all the time every day minute in minute hour in hour out, all it all the time And the team that I love West Aam. Unfortunately, I had to write a letter to them in about nineteen eighty one when I was about a fourteen year old as telling them about the NS National Fund being around the ground still got the letter Inredible, isn't it just say one bu why you letting them in Yeah, years down the line Tday But it's like it's You know, somebody's you got a father telling their kids or women in watching TV say you and saying bad things all the time, it's going to just penetrate you, you know, and then you just carry on doing it Of course it is, of course it is. and Yeah, I guess I want to sort of tell you that mean do you I want to tell you that you should be sort of proud to wear an England shirt, but that would just be patronising, wouldn't it? Yeah Unfortunately, I'm not at all. I'd rather be Brazil or somebody like that. You know, somebody else is happy, they're not arrogant that is happy they' played the game They don't want to act like they're superior and they've got a heavy shirt to wear. That is a heavy shirt. It really is. and that's what Garary Southgate and now Thomas Tul are doing such an amazing job of acknowledging and helping with and making the whole team help to carry that burden. But when push comes to shove, it will only be the black players that are being abused publicly and on social media And that is I mean that is that's such a sad thing that you say, Roy. And I just have to sit with it, don't I? I can't I don'm going to try and talk you out of it or persuade you otherwise, but But I really, really respect you, you know, James. how you address these things and even though you get hated by by the people who hate us, you know what I'm saying? You know they don't like you because you could articulate it very well. really And well, to that end, I should probably just reflect for a moment upon two of the things that you've raised, the kind of normalization of this kind of hatred and indeed the role that football forums play in it because there is someone who I think still has columns in the Sun newspaper and the spectator and the Sunday Times called Rod Liddle, probably best known for accepting a police caution for assaulting his pregnant girlfriend. hashtag P protect our women, hashtag save our girls, but he was also reported to have used a pseudonym monkey MFC on the mill wall Fan forums in which he post all sorts of derogatory comments. Inevitably he claimed that some of the worst ones weren't actually posted by him although quite how Heavily that was looked into, I do not know, but he certainly made jokes about Auschwitz There were derogatory comments about Somalis, there was misogynistic comments about Mary Nightingale and there were suundry other racist comments as well, although whether he claimed to be hacked or came up with some other explanation. He denied writing one that suggested black people were less intelligent. than white people. and of course that impacted not at all On his professional fortunes, on the payroll of various August once August British newspapers. So you know, you sit here, I sit here thinking, God, it's terrible, isn't it? The racism from football terraces in the nineteen seventies or the racism from football forums in the nineteen eighties has now leached into the mainstream And then you remember that people like Liddel have been slimming around the mainstream for their entire lives T to twelve is the time. I have actually got a genuine unhinged headline for you. Hopefully we'll have time to squeeze it in before mystery herour is upon us. If you're just tuning in, you should know that we've launched another feature Mystic, Jim I've predicted whichich means it will now come true, otherwise the whole feature will fall apart that by february twenty twenty seven I will actually have been provided with some production to accompany my new feature, which is when a headline confirms a prediction that I made some weeks or months ago. In this case, it involves Donald Trump and the claim that he has signed a magnificent deal, which is a claim being made pretty much exclusively by Donald Trump. Let's see if we can cut through some of the noise with our good friend Phillips O'Brien, the professor of Strategic Studies at the University of St. Andrews and the author of War and Power. Phillips, good morning. U How are you doing, James? I'm all good. Where dod you want to start? which side which end of the telescope? What does it mean for? It wasag on was was It was a magnificent deal. It is a magnificent deal for Iran. Yeah that the Iranians basically got everything they could have possibly wanted out of this deal and gave up from what we can tell nothing And that this was after the United States started a war of choice. This war didn't have to happen. It was chosen by the United States. and started by the United States on february twenty eighth, And here we are a few months later and the United States has lost the war. And Iran has gotten a great series of terms to end it. So that's where we are. Are they in an even stronger position than they were under the terms of the agreement that was negotiated by Barack Obama's administration? Oh, I would say yeah, in certain ways, they are in a much stronger position than under the JCPOA One, now the Iranians seem to have the chance to control shipping in the Strait of Hormuz. that The agreement with Trump does not rule out the possibility of the Iranians and Omanis charging tolls in the future Yeah that wasn't even being discussed back in twenty sixteen Plus, the Iranians seem to be offered a three hundred billion dollars reparations package as all we can cover it for the damage that was done to them whichich means they should get a huge influx of capital to rebuild themselves after this war which again, is important. They're also getting things they never had back then The Mar the MOU says the United States will withdraw forces from the proximity of Iran So the United States is promising to demilitarize at least some area close to Iran. none of that was being discussed in any detail under the JCPOA. So there are a lot of really strong strategic advantages for Iran now compared to back under the Obama one. And they've given up nothing on the nuclear deal. And that's the thing. Trump didn't get anything new on the nuclear deal. If anything, it's gotten worse on the nuclear deal for the United States Because really, all the Iranians have done is restated their longstanding public position, which is they do not want nuclear weapons, but that's just a statement. It's not enforceable And it's not clear the United States is going to get any extreme information out of them. In some ways, Obviously deaths and casualties Asign The people I feel sorriest for are the people who believed that Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu were interested in getting rid of the murderous and vile Iranian regime. The people I mean, the analogy we used and looking back it may have been a little bit clumsy But the analogy we used was that if your house was on fire and your family was inside and the only person prepared to go in and get them was let us say a rapist just thinking of the worst imaginable crime that we can, then you would want them to do it. You'd trust them to do it because there was nobody else there. And so Iranian people trusting Trump and Netanyahu are hoping that Trump and Netanyahu I feel very sorry for them today Well I mean, the Iranian people are the people who have suffered the most throughout this whole thing. They had to undergo a false promise by Trump that he would help them rise up. None of that's true. byy the way, the Iranians was never true exc. was never true. There was never any intention or Trump wanting to have a free Iran In fact, he wanted to have a continuation of the old regime with just different faces from what we could tell And the present Iranian regime is now very tragically executing some people who did protest. And so that Trump's promise was completely hollow, then the Iranian people had to endse six weeks of bombing And now they're going to be ruled by an empowered and stronger oppressive regime. you preempted me question. they're stronger now though. I mean they've come out with a better deal, but they're domestically stronger as well. Well, it's hard to see the United States and Israel have no influence now over Iran in any way. So it's hard to see what will happen to change the regime's structure So the outside influence over Iran to try and change things has gone down. The United States is pulling back The Iranian regime is going to get a lot of money, and by the way, sanctions are over If you read the memorandum, the facial sanctions are going to end very soon. So theyve got every single thing they asked for. And that's a reflection of Trump finally realizing that none of the things he thought were going to happen, whether because Benjamin Netanyahu gold him into believing that they would or because he was a little bit more deranged than usual or whatever the reason may be. Trump with the midterms looming, he realized he was never, ever, ever going to get any Victory here so he would give Iran every single thing that it asked for and then just do a lap of honor and claim that he'd scored. Let me read you the headline, Total Victory with Iran deal. I mean, is it that simple Yeah. I mean, as much as it We don't need bloody professors. We don't need professors of strategic stududies, do we? If it's this simple Yeah. No no. I mean, he started the war thinking he'd get rid of the regime and declare victory and have a great success. and probably get a big payoff you know, that's always part of the consideration So the regime. three hundred billion dollars, the nuclear scenario is exactly as it was before, if not slightly worse because they've kind of acknowledged there's nothing they can do about it. The strait of Hormmuz has been elevated to a leveridage status that it didn't enjoy previously. and And the Iranian regime has not only not been replaced, it's actually been enhanced and empowered. Will any of this affect Trump as he struts around like the proverbial pigeon playing chess as he struts around the board pooping and pretending that he wons Will any of it land with American voters Tr w want to help him. I mean, he's got his cps. His cps is gonna follow him to the gates of hell because they simply are Trump. They've identified with Trump. These are the people who said they were really opposed to a war for Iran in January, Th Trump decides to bomb Iran in February and they all changed. So that cps is not going anywhere for him. He's got them be fifty to sixty percent of the Republican Party, thirty, twenty to thirty percent of the country However This was a really unpopular war and it hurt the Republicans when it came to the affordability question because the price of oil went up. It also is embarrassing. So for some of those who are persuadable and we can't assume that's a large percentage, but there has to be some This will not help and it will certainly, I think, you know, empower or enrage anti Trump voters. So it's not going to make the difference in the election and changing it, but it might shaded a little bit more towards the Democrats. And with what we currently know, when historians of the quite near future come to chronicle this extraordinary chapter in U.S history of Middle Etern Red relations? Will it be the Marco Rubio narrative, albeit that he subsequently abandoned it that prevails that Benjamin Netanyahu has sought to persuade every U. S. president back to Lincoln, practically to invade Iran And they could all see that it would be an absolutely idiotic thing to do, but Trump fell for it and then very, very quickly, Everybody realized why no one had ever done it before Well, see Rubo Rubio' in many ways getting off far easier than he should. Yeah that Vance is the one carrying the can. Now look, I'm know Vance Van, as you know. But Vance was actually opposed to the war In February, he didn't want to start it. He was the skeptic and Rubio was the big supporter of the war. Now what seems to happen is Trump was angry at Vance for not being loyals. So he's given Vance the crappy job of negotiatinginn the deal. hes spinn the deal on Vance, which is pure trrump So's simultaneously pretending that it's a brilliant deal, But of course, when people start criticizing it, if that gains enough traction, it's all going to be JD Vance's fault And indeed, a lot of Trump's supporters are calling it the Vanceced deal. I mean that's their ultimate that's their cowardice Yeah. because they can't criticize Trump. So these are people like Lindsey Graham and Mark Theson, who you are well known in America And they're just tr Trump bites to the core, but they were all in favor of this bombing. And now that it's gone to this point, they say this is Vance's deal And they're putting the onus on Vance. whereereas Rubio to stay quiet, but he was from what we can tell, a really strong supporter of starting this war. And there it is. Trump claims total victory with Iran deal, whereas in fact, final question Could it have gone any Wse I mean, from Iran's point of view, could they have got anything else that is there anything on their wish list that they haven't received Not real. I mean anyway, we'll have to see how it goes with do the sanctions actually get ended as quickly? Do the But what' what's inurn What's in black and white at the moment.' It's literally their wish list has been completely match. Yeah, I mean, I suppose they could have asked did not wanting an IAEA mention in the text but we're talking they got ninety nine percent of what they wanted Well done, at the art of the DLA. I've never said this before, but thank you for the series you did with Tom Hanks. That was absolutely brilliant. I love that. Has it changed your life? Do people stop you in the street now and go, Hey, you're Phillips O'Brian. You're James' uncle. But also you were in that thing He's not my uncle. We've never actually met in the flesh, but you did the World War two series with Tomat. Yeah, that was a lot of fun to do, I have to say. so But it's one of those that's the kind of thing people watch. Yeah you're slumming it. you come on with us. you're slumming it. you're dating down. we're very grateful. I'm meeting Tom for a coffee right after this. I' pass it off. Give him my love, won't you? Thank you. Philips O'Brien, the prorofessor of Strategic Studies showhowbiz suuperstar and author of War and Power at of course Stain. Andrew's University. There it is. I mean God If we had a jingle for mystic gim, we'd have overused it today, wouldouldn't we? But I told I told you, I just told you. And I mean so many people who I feel sorry for. I mean supporters of Israel. Not of Netanyahu, because I think you're beyond sympathy now given what you have sanctioned and facilitated and even cheered suppupporters of Israel, in which number I count myself who thought that Benjamin Netanyahu was going to be anything other than disastrous for the people of Iran. Well done everybody supporters of Donald Trump who thought that Benjamin Netanyahu or Donald Trump' going to be anything other than disastrous for the people of Iran. Well done everybody And of course, u People who felt that the people of Iran were going to come out of this better off than they went into it. They're still under the jackbot of a hideous murderous regime. who have been strengthened by the actions of Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyu. Well done everybody This is LBC fromr Global, leading Britain's Conversation Mystery Hour with James O'Brien. two, three four calls. I didn't mention it M Mysteryour I haven't mentioned it since ten o'clock this morning. I'd like to pretend that was a thought experiment to see whether or not it is so baked into your consciousness that you know twelve o'clock on a Thursday means mystery hour. but I can't pretend that because you'd see through it in a hartpy. I just forgot, even though Keith said it in my ears on at least three occasions Anyway, because you haven't worked it out for yourself yet It's mystery Hour,our weekly opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction that's not available anywhere else on your radio. Here is the The deal You ring in with a question, a mystery a riddle, a conundrum that needs solving, and then someone else rings in with the answer. That's it. That's the tweet. That's the game. That's the miracle of modern radio that has spawned two board games, countless listeners and an entire archive of podcasts available The Gobal player or indeed the LBC app. There's a little bit more business I need to attend to If you make my favorite submission of the week, did you turn the volume up again then? you did No, wasas that normal? If you make my favorite submission of the week, you win a mystery hour game. And there are now two mystery hour games, notot one, count them but two, one, two. And one of them is a board game. And one of them is a travel edition, a travel game. They're different games. I am told by people who have both that they That having both is a good thing. I have both, but you wouldn't believe me if I told you. So if you've already got the bard game Rather than issue a second bunch of questions to play the board game with, we issued an entirely new game in a tint But you can use the cards from the second game to extend the life of the first game while also using them as a game in and of themselves, the only difference is that with the traravel edition, you don't have to make up any sort of bluff answers yourself We provide two wrong answers and a right answer. Whereas on the board game, we provide one right answer and a wrong answer and then extra points, the real jackpots can be scored by coming up with a really plausible answer to the question but it's a false answer and the more people that guess your answer as the correct answer, the more are yeah anyway. You can find out more at mysteryhour. co. uk. all right. And indeed you can find out the full terms and conditions for this proper grown up mature radio competition at lbc. co. u. Is that it? Have I done all the housework? Is that all the rubric? I think it is. I usually guarantee one laugh out loud moment between now and one o'clock, but I mean that's become so Commonplace now so expected so normal, I don't really need to issue the guarantee anymore. And I would just remind you we can't go anywhere near politics. Because there is a can I say that word out loud? a thing. there's a thing going on in the place is plac There's thing, there's things in places. there's the thing in the place and the other place and also but the other place So we can't talk about politics at all The only time I've ever had an off comp complaint upheld. No I'm not even going to tell you about that either. J just shut up. S actually shut up now Thank you Nine minutes off the twelve is the time Tony's in Cateron in Carteron in Oorxfordshire, Tony, question or answer Qestion please Jane. Cry on, Tony. I was lucky enough to marry my partner last year. Congratulations.. Thankk you very much We received plenty of bottles of casscca and champagne say Champagign off for people that really like you Yes, yeah, true. They were sat near us So earer this year I opened up a bottle, brought my wife a glass And I don't have a bottle stopper. So what I did, I popped a teaspoon in the neck of the bottle in the belief that it keeps the fizziness in the drink for longer So I'd like to ask if this is true And if I could put a cheeky second part to it, if it is true, then how does it work? That's not cheeky. Be if it was true, someone would have to explain how it worked. I don't think it is I mean, I don't think it is true. it's a bit of a sort of urban myth or something that I think Okay. you have heard of this before. Yeah, I've I've tested it myself. I've done it myself because there's quite a lot of technology attached to wine, not so much the champagne because you just need to stick a stopper in a champagne bottle and hope best. But some of the wine technology involves sucking the air out even after you've opened it. you sort of put the cork back in. But you suck all of the air out so nothing inside can oxidize And that means quite an expensive wine w won't turn, it won't go off I did it, I mean, it sounds odd, but I did didn't expect we did I did this myself And it doesn't work. It didn't Yeahah, it doesn't if you've got a flat bottle that's open U rather, you've got a bot two bottles that are open, you put a spoon in one of them and come back the next day, you won't be able to tell the difference between them Oh Okay. Qalifications I have actually done it. And I did it after our twenty fifth wedding anniversary when there were a few bottles left open and I thought, why not have a go and see whether it's true or not. I'm not taking a round of applause, Tony, because that is only one experiment and the plural of anecdote is not data But I can't think of the science that would explain it. Can you? Yeah, norm me. I mean I've worked in hospitality in the past a long time and we've always had a hunch that does have that effect. I dont think that maybe I'm putting it on the list I'm putting it on the list. Do you know who Tom Gilby is? Do you know who Tom Gilby is I do not. becausecause someone justest just txt me to say, It's a lie. I watched the floppy haired wine manan And I'm pretty sure he's talking about Tom Gilby, who is the floppy hared wine man, but also an old mate of mine from school who I haven't seen since nineteen ninety, would you believe? But he now pops up all over my algorithms, being extremely foul moused, potty moused, but utterly charming and possessed of ludicrous long locks that I almost take as a personal insult considering the state of my barnet. And he apparently has done the experiment And prove that there's no truth in it whatsoever. but I'm not again, that's anecdote. I haven't got proof it. so I'm leving it on the board. How's married life treating you Very good, thank you. she's off to Ascot today. very nice and winning. Well she should be drinking plenty of champagne. Keep you in the style that you deserve to become accustomed to. Tony, thank you. It's on the board, but as I say I don't think it's true, but I'm not going to go definitive on it myself. James is in Leeds. James, question or answer Tes. Hello, James, It's a question. What you doing? What happened then? What happened then? I was s for ages waiting for you Hello, Hello Aes I think we may have a slight delay on the line first, which means I probably shouldn't have made jokes about it. Can we come back to James in Leeds, but it doesn't matter because I've got another James. this one's in Manchester. James in Manchester. Hello, James I don't know how to James there, James strange. Maybe Yeah Quion, No answer question. Why do we have wine glasses and why do we have Champagne flutes for champagne It's all got a bit boozey this week. doesnn't it? Absolutely. Is is it because I pointed out that if you are following my clips on social media and terrified of the fact that you can't argue with a single point I made, it's become very popular later to claim that I'm drunk. Is that what's happening here? I think it must be. I think with the football last night, I mean, I had a couple of beers. Fair enough I didn't have any clean beer glasses. so I had to the wang glass. But I I'm using the wrong glasses. But some Belgiian beers are served in glasses that are closer to a wine glass than a pint pot, aren't they Absolutely. ye. There's one Belgium beer. I can't remember what it's called and you can't put the glass down. It's served almost in a bowl that would tip over if you put it down as well. So they serve it in a sort of cradle almost, as well. Yeah, I can't remember the name of that one. And then one fancy pants I know insists that champagne is nicer in those kind of coops. You know, the sort of wide flat ones rather than the flutes Absolutely. I mean, I remember as well going to October Fest back in the day in Waitresses carried twenty stins on an arm. Yeah whichich obviously were practical. Gful bit. Yes, no, they are practical. So I'd mean red wine, big glass, white wine, small glass. Yeah there's all sorts of little things there. So why also mean a stem as well. L why does it have to be raised? Well, that I think is less important on red wine than white wine, but with white wine you want to keep it cooled so you hold it by the stem and then your body heat doesn't leach into the glass from your sweaty palms, James from your sweaty palm. So I mean it might be another one that actually doesn't have much root in science and is mostly down to etiquette and things like that. But why do we have specific glasses for specific drinks I like it Top fifteen is the time. You're listening to James O'Brian on LBZ. I toyed with the idea, you know. Trying to theme mystery hour trying to make it. We did it one Christmas and my producer at the time went out and got me a father Christmas costume And he'd gone to such efforts to get it. that I felt I had to wear, those were the days I mean, seriously, I just said in passing About ten years ago, I said about ten years ago, we could do a Christmas mystery hour and he came to work the next day, He'd been into Angel and Burmonds, the big costume outfitters who do all the big West End shows He came in with an absolutely brilliant Father Christmas costume Sadly, I think it was in the days before everything we do on the show goes viral But but I did the show in a full Father Christmas. So listen to that, Keith. I asked for it on a Tuesday I got it on a Wednesday. Thursday. Aed it on a Wedesday, got it. I know he doesn't work anywore. He's a lifeboat man now down in Kent as well as a brilliant political journalist for the BBC. But those were the days when I said on air, Oh, that might be fun and the next thing you know, it had happened Anyway, roll on february twenty seven when I get a jingle for the new Mystic gym feature If you want an insight into my sense of humor, if you need an insight, if you haven't worked out yet what I find funnier and what I find funnier than other things, then here is something I find genuinely hilarious, which I think you might not find funny at all. I think it's a very sub subjective comedy moment So I've got loads of messages that just say quack So I was going to say to you, this is very odd. I think there's a lot of ducks listening to the programe. becausecause I've got about thirty text messages that just say quack Some say my name, some say quack James And the rest just say quack. Speelt a bit oddly. It's not spelt with a Q, but you know what spelling's like in this country these days. Selt KWAK. I've got lights gone up now. I've got about fifty messages that just say quack. So I can't I start thinking in my head there must be a lot of docs listening to the show. because they're all saying quack I think that's really funny. I mean, really funny. I'm not obviously rolling around on the floor of the studio, but loads of people are sending me the word quack And I'm thinking, oh, there must be lots of ducks listening I just think that's really funny. And the reason that's sending me the word quack is because that's the name of the German beer. The Belgian beer that I'd forgotten the name of that is served in a Um A glass that falls over A glass that you can't rest on presumably because you're supposed to drink it while it's really fresh or something like that. or I don't know, but anyway, you can't I tell you what Ke A Keith, Keith Keith. M must be loads of ducks listening today. Have a look at the inbox mode I said it was subjective No T ten minutes after the twelve is the time. James is in leads. James, questQion or answer? Oh, quick, James. question g on then It's about lifts. Oh. You know, you go in a lift, you press the floor and then you press the closed doors button. You know, the two arrows pointing inwards In the UK and alsoano in France They don't work. The doors don't close. They do. Os does. The one here does. doesn't go to Thailand. Why go to Thailand because when you're in Thailand, you press the button and they close immediately. you're in Vetnam. have your armour. just showose Eleanor's nodding saagely. Why are you nodding saagely? You've never been to Vietnam. You've been to Thailand, have you Yeah. All right. There you go Re? now. They just closeed. just you press the button and they close. And here they I don't think they close any earlier than they would have done because you pressed on the flone. So it could be a fluke. So they could be about to close anyway and then you press it and they close and you think the button's working I don't know. I don't know. I wonder if there's an I wonder if there's an override, you know, if it could be that they can set it So the cl be Yeah. So they must have decided it. I mean, it's a shame that you asked this question today because not that long ago We had the lift engineers in And there was a kid at my school. I've talked about him before And he used to morning break, he used to go to the school laundry and just watch the washing machines. He found it really, really soothing And I kind of turned into him a bit when the Lyift engineers were here. I just used to sort of hang around watching because you can look up and look down and there's light you know, there's lights in lift shafts, obviously because they're not needed very often, but when these four great lads, they were very patient with me and they explained things to me and showed me stuff. I felt about eight Ye, old watching. I love lifts and I could have asked them, couldn't I but I can't now because they've finished. done all their work. I'll find out for you And do. Also, we could make a map. We could do every country in the world. couldouldn't we? What Democratic Republic of Congo? what happens in the lifts? We could go through all the World Cup teams, Bosnia and Herzegovina. Anyway, why? Why? some I thought you got out more Well I'll do my best for you, James. There we go. That's the first non booze question. So we've had two booze questions and two James. So far three of you include me Martin is in eping, Martin question or answ It's a question. Carry on Mart Why do fishermen dress up in camouflage gear I mean, I can understand if you were going hunting an animal and you want to blend in with the trees and stuff, but the fish are in the water. Yeah, but they can see out of the water, can't they Call me I don't know. Yeah, definitely. That's mystery. I mean, I've never even clocked that before I've seen them walking down the street and I My son said, Are they army guys? I said, No, they're going fishing. L like dressing up camouflage even though Yeah. I mean, presume that they are Because you'd cast a shadow, wouldn't you if you were in camouflage That's my question. I mean, it's No, that's not a question. I mean you just would, you would cast a shadow if you were in Camfo. Camouflage doesn't hide your shadow. It just h just makes you blend in with the background. So I mean, listen either, they're doing it because it's a bit of cosplay and it makes them feel all outdoorsy or They believe that the fish can see them. There's only two possible answers to it. unless they were doing camouflage gear a special discounted rate at every shop in the country on a certain day, but that's I think we can rule that one out with some confidence, Martin. Yeahes, how about you Yeah. The other thing was he was saying about you asked for something on the Wednesday and then you get it on the Thursday. I thought you were going to do a Craig David song. well, that is also one of my favourite jokes, as you know. but I resisted the urge on this occasion and then you come along and do it for me. Thank you, Martin. I appreciate it. We should go for a drink on Thursday. Whether or not it's champagne or the ones that need specific glasses, only time will tell Paul's impressed, Paul question our answ A question, Carry on Paul I had a mouse get into the house and it was in one particular drawer eating the pasta. Okay. So I got myself a humane trap, caught the mouse, took it about half a mile away a bit more, let it go one week later S mouse back de R. Hang on a minute How did you know it was the same mouth If it had been like a family of mice, then one of their brothers and sisters would com in early it's not the same mouse. It's not the same mouse. It's exactly the same mouse. It's not the same mouse. So what I did was I caught the mouth again, I took it literally four miles away and let it going in the field. Yeah They should still not come back so I want to know. it's not on the way back And if so, when will it get here This is one of my all time favorites. You honestly think it was the same mouse percent yeah. hundred percent percent You'd have to tag it though. I mean there's no way it' come does come back, I will tag it it won't be yeah well,' be then you'll to take it ten miles away and also it won'tcess. evenven if it appears in your passer drawer again, it'll be your third mouse. Mice aren't lone operatives. They're not sober. There's no debs not. There's no such thing as a If if there was other if it was like with a gang, one of his mates would have come in. There are other mice that you just haven't found them yet Sndw Yeah, well because you keep haven't put the pastor in a top of air box, have you It was Sendraw Snd mouse. Did it have a key I don't even know he got in. P course the quest in. P course the Christian So the question is how on earth did that mouse find its way back to my house? It didn It didn't. That it, Jam was the same mouse Oh no. Okay. All right. how did the mouse How did the mouse get back to Paul's house That's the question All right Have you got room in your cupboard for a game, Paul Probably yes,. I don't want the mouse. Nibbling the edges of the mystery out bor game box In a different drawer out that? I might send you the one in a tin just to be on the safe side Thanks Matt. appreciate. It'sful A! twenty six minutes after twelve is the time. Does the old spoon in the champagne bottle work Why do we have specific glasses for specific drinks? Why does the closed door button in UK lifts never work in the way that it does in much of Southeast Asia? and out did the mouse in Paul's house back to Paul's house after the mouse was taken half a mile from the house Oho three four five, six zero six zero nine seven three Handy's in Brighton Andy question or answer. Hello, James. I'm actually in the south of France on holidays. I'm having a lovely time. I'm all blissed out. veryy well. Well let's keep it that way. Let's keep it that way, Andy, C on I have a question and it's about bees and butterflies and other pollinators. Yeah And I'm sitting here on this verandah in the sun looking at this big thick, dense border of lavender And all these buzzy, flappy things are flapping around and' very interested in all the heads of lavender. And I'm wondering How do they mark them or not continually revisit the individual heads of lavender or any other flowers. You know what I mean? though? How do they not just keep going back to the same ones Oh, I see what you mean. So so some of them have been emptied as it were., probably yeah And and they're been very dutiful and going around collecting as much as they can. but they surely revisit them, don't they? And if not, Well they don't have to spend long, they just sort of fly by it, g a quick butchers, say that one's a bit empty and move on to the next one, right Well Well I don't know. do they have they're not expending energy in even doing that? Don't they mark them somehow or do they? No they've got a mate who's a mouse who keeps a track of what each flower has done and where it's gone But he can't do it all the time because he's gott to get back home. He's gott to get back home to Preston by tea time I don't. So how how how do pollinators know which flowers have still got pollen in them? Well which flowers haven't got poen? The ones that they've already been to revisiting them. I'm sure they don't. I bet they do though. I bet its not for very long. Not for very long. They must have or not. No. I'm not convinced. I don't know. I don't know. I'd just love to know what the mechanism is. how do they do? How would I know There you go. All right, you're an my question. Enjoy the rest of your holiday. How long are you away for? I'm away for another week and a half. Oh happappy day. degrees It's fantastic. I'm always intrigued by people who live in holiday resorts and then go on holiday. this is a house that we found. It's in the southwest, it's huge and it's got massive grounds and it's just paradise here It really. Magly Say Magn quite right Andy. Let's find out for him. How do pollinators know which flowers to go to? as in why don't they go back to you understand the question It makes sense. I suppose technically Paul's question about his mouse made sense as well, but If you can answer that one in a sensible and straight faced fashion, then I will in the immortal words of the Great Lees Dennis I'll give you the I'll give you the board game myself It's coming up to half past tw, squeezeing one more, actually, shall we Philips in Hlepool, Philip question or answ It's a question please James. Carry off in it. yeah, auctions. Oh yees. I've been with you lately and I've also seen this on TV where Biddingss going along saying five pound increments. Yeah And then it gets to one hundred and then the auction starts going up in tens or twies Yeah it gets to five hundred and then he starts walking on in hundreds. And it's just is this being like always always established practice or is, you know, is there some unwritten rule on this? Is kind of the option you know, discretion that they do this I mean, I've seen things like from Christie's where they're doing it in millions and they do the same thing. Yeah think it almost might be the other way around and that the higher it got, the smaller the increments would get because you're trying to squeeze as much out of the room as possible. Because the other thing is that en stuff and I thought, well, if he goes up in tenens, I can hang in the auction of a suddenly cost to hundreds and well that's me out Yeah. So you know. cutting down the number of people that's potentially bidding you know, just sort of doing that thing I did earlier about knitting lots of things together. I'm off to the cricket after the show today,. I'm off to the oval after this. and John in Marley Bone, who used to ring in quite a lot, he's a big stalwart of the MCC, but also a brilliant auctioneer So unfortunately, he will be at the oval at the moment because he never misses a match, but he would know the answer. I did it once I what are you trying to buy, by the way And I'm trying to banceself I'm setittting up a pbe Oh ye And I'm just, you know, sort of memorability stuff and as well as just practical things like tables and chairs. Oh I like that. Oh Yeahah. whereabouts is the pub in Holey. If you got a premises? Yes, yeah. haveave you got a seam U yeah, well it' there's a lot of filments going on in Harleippool at the moment. They' set upp studios So quite a lot the stuff that's been on TV lately is being filmed here. Didn't know that. So I'm trying to try that in so great idea. Well keep us posted. I'll give you a free advert when you're open. In the meantime, we'll try to find out what's going on at the auction is. Why do they go up in the increments that they go up in? Because it's a good question that. I did an auction once, I've just remembered I did an auction for the military charity comombat Stress and I thought I did a flipping brilliant job. I raised loads of money. I was doing this thing Well I'd say that table over there and their rivals over there and they say, they're laughing at you. They're laughing and they go, you've got to go get their job, right, but they never asked me back, Philip. I never got They went with a professional the following year. sometimes I don't know why I bother. It's like being at work Yeah. I'll see what I can do. mind how you go. I'm late for the news. Amelia Cox is here with your headlines. twelve thirty five is the time. Does the old spoon in the champagne bottle actually work Expert answers only. Why do we have specific glasses for specific drinks I don't need anyone else to send me the Nool Gallagher story about Liam being round at his house and asking why he had a teaspoon in his champagne bottle, and Nol said, Oh, it keeps it fresh And then the next time he wentound to Liam's house hed put a teasoon in his milk bottle. But'ptish ory story. Well at least no Galliga tells us story Why does the closed door button not work on British lifts Is it is it anti white racism U because it works in Thailand and in Vietnam I think we've got a new campaign now Paul had a mouse in his house And he took the mouse half a mile away from his house and he thinks the mouse came back. And I've got a horrible feeling. this might be one of those things that I laughed at too much actually U How did the mouse get back to Paul's house? If indeed it was the same mouse prractically a poem. How do bees know which flowers not to go back to as it were? How do the bees know how polliney a flower is and Why do auctioneers go up in increments that seem a bit counterintuitive? as in the gap between one bid and the next bid should get smaller as the overall bid gets higher But the opposite is true. There's quite a lot there, isn't there? I like it. Caroline's in Sandhurst, Caroline question or answer It's answer. Marvellous ' sorry I'm still laughing about the mouse. The mouse in the house. I think you might be laughing on the other side of your face soon. You might actually be right judging by my inbox, but time will tell, Caroline, time will tell. Okay, No,'s why do we have different glasses for different drinks? Oh yes. I can answer some of them. The champagne, for instance with the long flute the tall flute glasses there's a very small surface area. So the bubbles stay longer in the drink if it's a flat glove then the bubbles have got more surface area to sort of disappear. So One is supposed for sip champagne, I believe. so lightweight. should contain as many sips as the bth. withith red wine and brandy The glasses are slightly balloon shaped. Y. those just stick your nose in and putut your hand round it and warm it and get the aroma. U And sort of and oxidize it as well, I think with the red in the same way because you never decant a white wine, do you, I don't think? So with the red, you're trying to get the oxygen into it. that's nice Is that it? Is that you got champagne, red wine and brandy? I think that's all I can do, yeah. What about quack What about? Qack. Cack. Cack Cack with Belgian beer Oh, sorry, no I don't know. I did used to work work in a bar in Spain and We had so many different belt beers and different glasses for each one. There was one particular glass that you always had to rinse out in ice cold water before you served it Was that that's the one that you put a lemon in, a bit of lemon in it. L Le Was it ley? Was it Ly? Yeah, it' nice It's quite punchy though. It's about six and a half percent. Yeah. So why do you know why the beers had specific glasses in the bar that you worked in Because the lady I worked for was very particular about putting the right glass the right glass to the right. Well Would it taste different though If it was in the wrong glass, probably say Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? I like that. Anyway, you've've done enough. Qalifications I used to be a tour guide and I took people around the cver cellars in the north of Spain. I learned an awful lot about the champagne method of making wine Is that how you pronounce it? I've been saying Cver all my life. Kaba, yeah, sorry, Kaba. Oh you live and learn. There you go. two reasons for a round of applause for Caroline I mean, it's an open ended question, isn't it that James asked? because we could be here all day going through each individual drink that has an individual glass. Some of it will be marketing, well wn't it? Some of it of course will just involve you being served a drink in the glass that The Bwery has provided because it's got marketing all over it. So you're holding a little advert in your hand, Guinness being quite a good example of that, but you know there's various others as well. And then you've got the Belgian presumably quite a esoteric approach, almost like vint' Belgian approach to beer with different flavours, having different responses and different levels of fizz needing different glasses. But generally speaking, if there is a reason for doing it, it will be to enhance the drinking experience. It's her garden With a with the lemon, isn't it? That's why I rinse the glass out.' H garden I think that's I think it is, I think it is. you des serve it in the French house. Anyway I digress. Thank you Caroline, Gary's in Darlington, Gary, questuestion or answer. Qestion, please Jam. Carry on, Gary Why do birds herd sheep Pardon Yeah, why do birds herd sheep? I'll tell you I'll give you the context for. So I was out on Saturday doing some hill running on the sort of Penes loveovely glorious day r through refus field as I normally do. And then I just heard this sort of squawking of the birds and it sounded quite angry. And it was it wasn't a tweet and it wasn't a squwk. It was like mid range between the two. Yeah. And I thought What's going on here? Spt's getting these birds rolled up and they were aboutout two or three meters I've spotted them about two or three meters above my head. Yeah. And they were Two of them working as a pair They were literally flying towards the sheep, sawking and the sheep were moving as a result of them it went to in la I don't think they were. Oh I don't think the birds were herding sheep. And I think on the pen Dinitely I think the sheep were definitely reacting to the birdird what sort of birds were they? Yeah? I mean, if they were golden eagles, you might have a point here, but I didn't I didn't know the time. No. So I sent the photograph and footage to my mother who was a keen bird spotter. Oh yeah, she said and she said there were lap wings. So it's not big then Oh, no, not big not big birds. No. And because they were black and white, I immediately I just put me in mind of this you know, of a boorder colleague. and alcohol And I'm not saying that's the reason, but it did cross your mind that the sheep who are not renowned for their intelligence Nearly made an offc unfriendly joke there, given that it's a by election day. The sheep and thought that they could see little miniature flying barder collies But The sheep were plus, I think the sheep were plusy enough to re know and say, look, we don't Can I change the question slightly Yeah, sure. Can I say were the birds that Gary saw on his run, herding sheep Of course you can. And Ive tolded you the question I've tooued with the question since I saw it on Saturday. Yeah. So yes. I think that might because it's the certainty That troubles me. Yeah, ye. So I'll just to confirm it. I'll run a few hundred yards Yeah over the way along the plath. And I'm Incidentally it was sort of about eight miles west of Barner Castle and very no eyes and eyes weren't deceiving me So well fled. Rad Kids, round of applause for that. comeome on ia.. so you know, because it's, you know, frequent running route of mine, but I'm not sure I've been out when there's been l wings about or whatever Lovely. Did your mum know? Did you ask your mum? Did you ask your mum I didn't I didn't ask me momum because Id still want to sort of get any clue before I ran you. Oh I love it. Okay, so were they herding somehow herding the sheep? Is that what they were doing? I sort a little bit down the road. I thought, listen, have I just been seing some I met out of breath and So that wings's nest on the ground. they might do and I thought it see has something to do with egg'ted This could be a brilliant question as opposed to a dAft one which was my inial thought And I couldn't name it down in tees as well. I thought it might be me. You know, I'm Yeah scaing the shoot. ran through enough sheep fields to know how far you need to be in sheet before alamment. Noolly. And what really got me is that they actually herded and through a gap in the drystone wall Oh wow Anyway, yeah. you're hon sure If you said that at the beginning, I might not have been so skeptical. But it's a brilliant question. I think it might be a brilliant question. Did Gary witness bird lap wings? and I think the species of bird might be Crucial hair Herding sheep zero three, four, five six zero six zero nine seven three James is in Hinksy Hill. anotherother James. It's the day of the James today. I know I love it. James, question our answer James. Carry on, James do with the auction increment. Oh yes Yeah. Well, in short, each auction house will have what they call conditions of sales, which are the rules and reggs for people to bid And one of the clauses will be that the auctioneer dictate what the increments are going to be. Right. Now the rule of thumb is that you tend to stick to about ten percent increments, but depending on how fluffy or dry the bidding is, then you'll alter your increments accordingly. So you read the room a bit That's it. But of course, if you were going up in in Ten pounds was you'd go up a pound at a time, but if it got up to a hundred pounds, you'd go up ten pounds at a time. basically, you know, there comes a point where you don't want to go too small on increments because you're just sort of upset the other bidder and the it'll never end. Well, well, that's the golden that's the golden scenario where it never ends. of course what you don't want is anyone to drop out I got it. Qalifications. been in auction for thirty five plus years. We've got one today. No. Okay. Do auctioneers do you have like a signature flourish? Do you do because you know do you all do going going gone? and do you all do do you like How much of you do you get into your auctioneering an awful lot. Yeah I do do a bit of sort of tuition as well on it. And quite frankly, you can sort of teach anyone to be an auctioneer, but to be a good auctioneer, so much has to come from yourself with your own personality And well, you've done it before. It's like being a radio presenter You can teach anyone to do it. but I don't think it's that difficult. Well I was going say I thought you could say It think it's that easy. I wonder that we should do a job swap one day. I loved it. I loved it, but it didn't I mean, I've done two actually. I forgot about the other one. I did one for the Andy Taylor Foundation. I nearly lost my voice. It's hard not to bellow. even if you're amplified that you get caught up in the adrenaline at the moment, but obviously not after thirty five plus years. You take it all in your in your capable stride Well, we try. We try lovely stuff. Random pause for James Lovely stuff. Thank you. It is twelve forty six. twelve, forty nine is the time some breaking news for you, and I'm afraid they're very much at the other end of the emotional palete the fun we've been having with Mystriia. I hate this story. I can't bear it, but I guess this counts as good news of sorts. Jamie Varley, the thirty seven year old former teacher, has just been sentenced to a whole life order at Preston Crown Court for the murder and sexual abuse of his adopted baby son Preston Preston Davy Anyway, a whole life order for thirty seven year old Jamie Varley responsible for the murder and sexual abuse of the little baby Preston, who we were talking about earlier this week, ten minutes to one is the time more on that story. No doubt in the course of this afternoon, but we return for the time being to the altogether Less serious matter of mystery Our questions that still need answers include They one about the spoon The one about the lift The one about the mouse in the house and the one about the bees, but not the one about the auctans, but the one about the birds. So it's been a curious mixture of booze and natural history this week. Oh, and the one about the fishermen. I like that one. Why do fishermen wear camouflage? Yeah think about it. Rick's in, Bradford, Rick, question or answer Answer Carry on, rightate So the reason that the lift doors don't shut immediately when pressing the button in the UK is due to a standard within the industry that states that the wif doors should be open long enough for somebody that has an impediment or is in a wheelchair be able to safely enter or exit the lift. So so it's not that it' completely disabled like it is in America. Is it? It doesn't work at all in America. It doesn't work at all in America. They're completely disabled in America U because fully automated. In the UK, it is considered industry best practice and it is a standard. that the button should only operate once the once that delay time has expired. And what's the time It's dependent on it's dependent on that particular lt. Oh is it? So it's down to the engineer to make their best assessment. So it is working, it just doesn't feel like it because there's a delay there Okay Ier And in Southeast Asia, Thailand and Vietnam where the examples given, our correspondent was adamant James, another James was adamant that there was no delay at all. You press the button and the door shut. Now that could be that they are not a stringent ons and health and safety Qalifications I'm actually a fire and security engineer, but I actually asked this question to a lift engineer when I was working on site with him Okay Love it. That'll do nicely. D I mean did the lift engineer enjoy his work? Yeah, as far as I could tell. It's gotott hiss ups and downs I heard. A indeed. That's awful. I give Rick a round of applause. It didn't even work because he's not a lift engineer, I Oh Honestly, what an hour? Grants in Bracknll Grant question or answer It's anutor, James. Carry on about the mouse in the house? Yeah. I'm not say that was' the same mouse, but it's a very strongility possibility it was. Shut up Shut up. Mice are very, very territorial unless unless you put them outside at least a mile and a half to two miles plus They will find their way back The same mouse Very possibly the same mouse. Yeahah. I've had this happen plenty of times. People say they'veven driiven a mile or a couple hundred meters. how do you know it's the same mouse Well that's I'm saying It might be the same mouse, but it's very plausible. But how do you when it is the same mouse, how do you know it's the same mouse? C it would be the same mouse going back to the exact same area that it was feeding on or where it was inhabiting before But you've never like put a bit of Tipx on his head or anything like that Well, for some mice, you can get different colorations and It's quite rare to have How do they know their way back? How do they find their way back? Do we know Well mice everywhere mice go they urinate and defecate and they follow their own their own urine, basically. Oh of course they do. It's like Hansel and Gretel, but with we Exactly that That's incredible. He was in a humane trap though So there'd be no trail Yeah, but it would still leave a trail leading up to the trap and all around the desk and where it's been feeding Yeah, but you've driven him half a mile away in a humane trap. So there's no trail of William Pooh Yeah, but that mouse will still know all the surrounding areas within that distance. You think so? How? Be because it lived there before. And do the mouse ever work solo? Could you ever have a lone mouse in a house very occasionally, but my son only needs four to five millimeters to get into your house. Yeah I know. it's about a broow. It's roughly a byroow between the skirting board and the carpet. They can get through that, can't they Exactly that. I remember. So you think Paul's mouse probably was the same mouse? I think I think it was the same aster my own personal you? I don't believe it. I mean Every single time I laugh. I got hysterical about that one, Gant you heard everyvery single time. It turns out that I'm the mug. Honestly, qualifications A I own a fest control company with twenty five years experience. Good man. Do you think the fact that this question was actually genuine and serious Yeah takes takes away from Paul's qualifications for the game because I was going to give him the game because I thought he was being hilarious, but it turns out he wasn't being. He had a natural comic Delivery, but the question itself was not comic genius No, It happens quite a lot to again and it's more than what people have realized. Yeah, clearly. I love that anyyway, you go a round of applause Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Love you S. Do you want a free advert for your pest control company or not Yes, please. It's Woodrush pest control based in Brackneall and covering all the Sed areas. There we go. Woodrush pest contontrol. You know when you're on a job And you've got the company on the side of the van Yeah. The people ask you to park a bit further away so they't so that the neighbors don't know they've got rats and stuff. Sometimes, but we've now got a van that's got magnetic signs, and if they ask that, we can take it off genius may have another round of applause Look at that. That's incredible. Top fifty six is the time Simon's in Otley. Simon question or answer. Alla Jbs. cararry on, Simon Samouflage Right Things are not quite the way they seem. You wouldn't even remember that song, but anyway I do remember that song. I do remember the camouflage. Yes, I do. Not all anglers where camouflage is mainly Carp fishermen that wear camouflage Now Initially, one of the things that Camp fisherman do is stalk CP very closely into the bank. Right. So they've got to be quite stealthy, but the wearing of camouflage isn't actually necessary. It's mainly somber dark clothing, your greens, your browns, that sort of col of it, you need to wear but carp fishing. has become such a massive business now. that it's very difficult to buy something for cow fishing that's not camouflaged. I mean, I'm a fly fisherman and I don't wear camouflage. Sea fishermen don't wear camouflage. No. There's various different branches of angling. it's mainly carp fismen. It's a brilliantswer. You've know that you've covered it or it believed or proven that then the carp will be slightly spooked by bright colors? Well well, yes and no, but again, carp fishing, I would probably say that seventy five percent of carp fishing is done at night as well. There a lot of carp fishing with night fish. Oh So which absolutely wipes out the fact I don't need do camouflage camouflage in the dark Sounds like a kind of poem, doesn't it? Yeah, qualifications. I know you've told us, but you have to tell us again. It' angler, Just a fisherman Yeah So where'd you fish up there?ere's the nearest fly fishing? Liver wolf, Liver wolf all deals with us, you know. Round of applause for Simon in Oley Thank you U twelve fifty eight is time you're listen to squeeze in one more. can we squeeze in one more? Me in God'sone country That's two today, onene inrentford and one in Kidermster, the beginning well, not quite the end, but the current location of my life. Mit question or answer Answer James Cares. Oh, you're a resident ornithologist Well, the orniththologist is a professal al'm just a keen Iate it. G what have you got So it must be the one about the sheep herding the birds herding the sheep. What are we reckoning? Erding's the wrong word really. all the la wings are doing. they're just mobbing the sheep because it's going near the nest. So they they ground nest lap wings. Yeah, lap wings clely anything where he is, he's probably in uplands there. Sheep are a bit of a menace really in these places because they can trample nests. And they even eat the eggs. so the sheep see them near the birds see the sheep near the nest and they just kind of dive bomb them until they clear off somehere them off. So they they were looking like they were herding them then to Gary Yeah, I mean you know, they're not gonna to be doing a babe the pig, you know. Qalifications Burder for over fifty years. Have you been Mick to the new haveave you been to the town haall since they did it up U No,'ve not, I've been past it a couple of times. You should get down there. It's supposed to be fantastic I know. I mean, I was going to M sister suggested being a big ruggy fan that I went to see Ton theates there. Oh fantastic Sadly, I mean, it ain't tooting the Mats because Tots is sadly no longer with us. Well that's what put the kibosh on your pants. Did you ever see the bigig toown Pboys back in the day? No didn't Beike Mike Sanchez is playing there this summer. I know he's coming back beudely born and bred. In years gone by, Iared I was working for a drainage company and I cleared his drains once. Oh the glamour. the glamourick the glamour. ra Kidy. Come on kiddy. And there it is. That's it for today. I'm going to give it to Gary actually. He got pipped at the posted old poul because it turned out his question wasn't as daft as I thought, but Gary's question about the birds and the sheep turned out to be absolutely genius If you missed any of the show today you can listen back on the Global Player. I'm quite late. It's Sheila. Thank you very much, James. That was good. I wasn't expecting that. This has been a Global Payer original production