Defense Secretary John Healey resigns

This is a Global Player original podcast Four minutes after ten is the time, Do you have to guard against being performatively miserable as you get older Do you know what I mean? It's like that you say something and I roll my eyes and just go, Oh for goodness sake, I'm too old for this, or it's so boring or whatever it may be. I don't know. but I do guard against being performatively miserable. It's so uninteresting. Whether it happens in real life or online or on the show, someone gets in touch to tell me that they're bored or someone gets in touch to tell me that they don't like something. What am I supposed to do with that information post something, it's almost as, it's behind a paywall And you go, yeah, I know it's behind a paywall, Journalists need to get paid It's a bit like, as I walk around this building and here's one for the YouTubbe, as I walk around this building, No, it's not like that. That's not fair because there's nothing miserable about the people I'm about to describe, but it's a statement of the bleeding obvious that probably deserves to sit in a similar category. I have, if you were not aware of this, the largest mug in the world. It is what you might describe as a world mug It is absolutely enormous. I'm not exaggerating. It's about as large as it could feasibly be while still being Uable you could obviously have a bigger mug Bigger mugs do exist, but I don't think I mean that is like when it's full, I wonder how I could actually hold it at arm's length for That wouldn't be very good radio, would it, Keith? But I'm already struggling a bit. I don't have particularly strong arms, but I'm playing a bit of tennis at moment. so it's getting how long old are you I can? Anyway, it's big. It's bigger than my phone, for example. I have an average sizeed iPhone in in a in a case So I've got a very, very big mug And I walk around this building, and if I bump into people that I haven't bumped into before, very often they will say to me, In fact, a lovely blke just did it now. veryery often they will say to me, I was just looking out the window to make sure he wasn't still there. they say, gosh, that's a big mug. How am I supposed to respond to that That's a big do I feign surprise as I look down at the contents of my own hand Reef, whereere did that come from? It's enormous. Would you look at the size of this mug, Keith? Do I say I know 'cause that feels a bit passive aggressive. That's an enormous mug, says a stranger. I know, says me. O I not do I smile? Do I nod? It makes me uncomfortable. Every time it happens, I feel vaguely uncomfortable because I don't want to be rude. You know my motto? I hate being rude unintentionally feel very differently about being rude intentionally, but I don't want to be rude unintentionally That's an enormous mug. I know. Right That's an enormous mug. Oh oh yes, so it is. Rude That's an enormous mug. Yeah Rude. There's no way I can respond to someone pointing out that my enormous mug is enormous without I don't think I can do it without being rude. And I feel the same sometimes about people who get in touch to tell you that they don't like a subject that you've chosen. Well What do you want me to do? You think I'm going to change the entire show because you I said no Not even Keith wields that sort of power. Maybe Eleanor does But only if we're talking about bus routes, which we will one day, I swear by all that is holy. I swear by the power of Gykull. But one day we will do favourite bus routes on this program and you're going tune in because you never know when it's going to be. It could even be tomorrow Probably won't be today because it's Thursday and we' got Mysteryour coming up at twelve o'clock. So I said in the trail there, U justust before Nick left the building. I said I'm going to talk about the World Cup. and I really want to know what that made you feel. I don't know if you want to ring in with it or text it, whatever works best for you, but just that initial statement because I'm going to do it to myself now. I'm going to analyzsee it to myself now J, I'm going to talk I've turned on my radioor Bokees there he says he's going to talk about the World Cup. Okay, here's my reaction. Why Why aren't I more excited I love football. Love the World Cup It is by some distance and this isn't an opinion, it's counting. It is by far the biggest sporting event on this planet, which means that today is the biggest day and you only really get to a decade, it is the biggest day on this planet's sporting calendar. Today right now is the biggest day on this planet Sorting calendar I tried to get excited But listen, I know I will get excited if England or Scotland, for that matter go on a bit of a run I tried to get excited. I even got an album bought, I think it was two pound fifty in Marts and Spener's. Did you get that the hardback album? I think it's Figurini Panini? You certainly have to hope so, because it wouldn't be a proper album if it wasn't Figurini Panini I got the album, I got some stickers. I thought,h, I'll do a bit more shopping Marts and Sparks for the next month or so because then I'll be able to buy more stickers. I didn't bother. I didn't do it. don' you know I don't think I even put I didn't, I would remember if I had because it's a peculiar thrill, right? It's a bit like Prst's Madeleine's putting stickers in a sticker album for British people of a certain age takes you back in time. It transports you like a DelLorean sports car Why? why Didn't I put my stickers in my albin? That's not the phone in. Please don't ring to tell me why you think I didn't put my stickers in my album. And no, that's not a figure of speech It's an entirely accurate description of what I didn't do. Even though I bought the album, it wasn't just a freebie that was given. I was trying, I tryed muster up some excitement And um, I'm no fan of Donald Trump, as you know, but I wouldn't let that pollute my enjoyment of a football. Well, would I don't know, Maybe it's subconscious Maybe it's subconscious So you are there and you hear me say those words, we're going to talk about the World Cup and what immediate Eotional response does that engender What does it engender? I'm going give you the phone number actually. I haven't finished, you won't be surprised to learn, but if you want to kick off, you see what I did there. If you want to kick off with that question, then you can zer three four five six zero six zero nine seven three. what are you feeling? But think I think the why is always more interesting than the what So there are two Tams here, if you like. There are two coaches making their way up the highway. The first is full of excited people. I want to get on that coach So why are you excited? I mean, how do we communicate? I think when I opened this moment by reflecting upon being performatively miserable, I was trying to reassure myself that I'm not being So I had a little chat with Nick as he left the studio and I don't think he'll be amazed to learn that there aren't many issues of major import upon which we find ourselves in full agreement But we both seem to be feeling the same sort of thing about the World Cup. We're at the older end of the colleague Gth And some younger colleagues seem to be feeling a little bit of excitement, not so much mine I envy them a bit. I envy them a bit But I can't quite piggyback their enthusiasm. So I don't think it's an age thing U and I don't think it's a Trump thing It probably wouldn't be a trump for both of us, but it is more likely to be one for me. I don't think it's a Trump thing, I don't think it's in it. Maybe it's lots of things. Why are we not more excited about this World Cup? What's happened What's been sprinkled? into the water supply that means we're not Gszling World Cup fever in the way that I have done, I think with every previous tournament I can't quite even remember when I first got. I know it kicks off at nine o'clock, which is a massive result when you look at the calendar because some of the games are kicking off at four o'clock in the morning. Is that part of it? I don't think so But why? And I'm fairly confident, I could be wrong that in Scotland things will be different because getting into the tournament if you're Scottish is a greater achievement than it is for an English team. Historically speaking, that's not an opinion, that's counting So is there proper fever in Scotland. It's this weekend, Scotland's first game, but it's at two o'clock in the morning Um Is that part of the reason why? Be I mean, are you going to let the kids stay? There's so many answers to this question.zero three four five, six zero six zero nine seven three is the number you need because if the kids, what are the kids? eightight and six ten and eight, I don't know I don't know how old your children are. You haven't told me. But you're not going to let them stay up till two o'clock in the morning. It's a school day, right? The schools haven't broken up So why? Wh? Are we not more excited? Why aren't we football crazy B Mad And if you are, if you have managed to avoid whatever it is, they've sprinkled into our water supply that's sort of diluted or this dismantled football fever What are you doing right that I'm doing wrong? Ohzero three, four five, sixzero sixzero nine seven three. I think there's always horrible stuff going on in the world when the World Cup happens. You could see it as an example of harmony You got Iran going to the United States of America. It's almost as if football could transcend International relations, I haven't checked yet whether we are currently looking at a ceasefire, an escalation of hostilities, an announcement of imminent peace, a lap of honour having secured imminent peace, or a threat to bomb Iran, which you've already obliterated into further obliteration. I haven't checked yet what Donald Trump is saying today, but the idea that football could somehow transcend the madness That would once have been quite I mean, who remembers escape to victory? when football managed to defeat the Nazis almost single handedly. to not getting any of it I'm not getting any of it And neither am I going to have any truck or patience. with people complaining about a current affairs radio program discussing the single biggest event. on the entire planet entertainment calendar. There is nothing bigger than this. It's bigger You might want to sit down For this. It's bigger than the Eurovision song contxt The World Cup is the biggest entertainment event on the planet Clendar And we only see it on average twice a decade. So the idea that you don't talk about it or talk about it? That's just just clear off seriously. Go and listen to go listen to Alid on Classic, actuallyct don't listen to Alid on classic FM. you'll probably never come back. A man's got so much talent. But you You don't I mean, yout you don't do that in real life You know, walk into a pub and people are having a conversation. you say, I can't believe you're talking about that. I'm going home. You sit down and join in, you try and stare things away. Why? I say World Cup. You don't say o laid You say, o At least I think you do. I want to know why zero three four five six zero six zero nine seven three. That's question number one Question number two is Very much a companion piece to question number one, as you would expect, but it is different, it's measurably different And I'm really interested in the answer to both of these questions The second one will be much more personal, much more subjective and therefore perhaps much easier to answer Why aren't you going Oh three four five, six zero six zero nine seven three Obviously, well, I never go to World Cups, James is not a valid answer to that question. Why aren't you going to the World Cup? Well, I never go. Why would I go? Why are you asking me? I No, you are somebody who has in the past or might be minded to go to the World Cup. In fact, you may be someone who's gone to most of them. You usually make a trip of it I only know I normally know and to be fair, one of my friends who would probably have been going is no longer with us. but I normally know about half a dozen people who are going to the World Cup. and this year, I only know one of my daughter's friends who's going with his dad. That's it. I've got one person on my list Apart from journalists and you know, friends who are in the business. I don't know anyone who's going. So why aren't you going to the World Cup And that's the why of it. Those are your two why's this morning Your wife frs Why Are we not more excited about the biggest event on the planet's entertainment calendar, Not sporting, not exclusively sporting. This is bigger than a Harry Styles tour. This is bigger than Taylor Swift. Why are we not more excited about the biggest event on the planet's? Entertainment calendar Unless of course you are, in which case, come one, come all and infect me with your enthusiasm And the second question is, perhaps a bit more political, certainly a lot more personal. Why aren't you going? Why Yeah zero three four five, sixzero sixzero nine seven three is the number you need. It's eighteen minutes after ten and we're not yet. Ball crazy Allright, you've somehow, Steve, you've got under my guard there. Steve's message to say, I'm not going James because I loathe football That's precisely the answer I asked not to receive But somehow I know it's a bit of an odd parallel to draw, but as I wander around the building with my enormous mug and people say to me, goosh, that's a big mug. It speaks to the same part of my brain as Steve getting in touch to say, I'm not going to the football because I loathe football. That doesn't count. That's the only negative, silly, pedantic funny answer that I'm going to read out to the question, why are we not more excited? and specifically, why aren't you going And can we help can we get can we I mean, this might sound a bit odd if you're just tuning in, but can we actually excite each other Do you think Can we excite each other Um zero three four five, six zo six zero nine seven three. David's in Chersey to kick things. I stop saying that now. Well, I only have to say it once, don't I? So I can get I can allow myself one more. David's in Chersey to kick things off David, what would you like to say? You crack on with your puns Jones, we wouldn't have it any other way honorered to be speaking to you as well. it does. It's lovely to haveice carry on. Yeah Yeah, so I know I'm a World Cup following England veteran. I was in France in ninety eight, I went to the Germany World Cup, I was in South Africa. Wow.' B to all the euros. I didn't to didn't go to Russia because I was in Marseilles for the Russian riots. what I saw I saw people I saw Russian troops cutting people's Achilles tendons that day and I't want I don't want any part of that. So yeah, it was brutal. so yeah, but my friends are in they've gone over there at the moment. they're there. They've gone via Colombia and Panama, They're having a trip of their lives getting there, but none of them really are kind of vived up about the tournament itself, I think Really. And Th these are the people you'd normally be with yourself. Yeah. And you know my best mate Billy, he's kind of like an England super fan really. and he's not missed a tournament since well, you a Euro or a World Cup tournament since you know Sweden in the mid eighties. And you know, he's there, but he's kind of there out of habit rather than, you know excitement, I think I think I think the politicization of the whole tournament, not just by Trump, but by FIFA has kind of ruined it. I think. Really Yeah. I think it was a lot it was, you know, obviously it was all about power and money and FIFA are obviously, you know a huge a huge operation, you know. Do you remember when we thought getting rid of Set Blatter was going to improve things Yeah come in and you know, you a corruption has kind of tainted that organisation and the tournament. But that would have been true in previous tournaments that you fancied when I'm going to call him Sica Fantino because you ask me to stick with the puns. When Sica Fantino wasn't in the big job. Was there a straw that broke the camel's back or is it just a kind of general sense of m? Yeah, I think I think the peace prize I think that for me that was just like this this is just this is beyond this is beyond parody now it is It's literally beyond parody. I would quite like to parody it, but how do you parody it? The foootball gave him a peace prize because the Nobel Committee didn't. No, I mean, if the talking heads have done that, you know, they you know, that if they' had sort of tried to you knowap do that, then everyone to say, that's just ridiculous. But You know, and then su I think. you've summed up a lot of it. Do you think and of course we don't know, but we suspect, you know, we if we storm through to the quarters, then you're probably going to startop wishhing that you'd gone with them, aren't you? Part of me might regret it and you know, now I reserve the right to fly out at time And you know, which I have done in the past, but I just think also the further we get away from sixty six and the further we kind of you know we just know there's disappointment around every corner or you know the ultimate disappointment, then I just think the reality of winning it becomes easier. I wondered about this because Southgate got so much closer than anybody else has really. I suppose this is Bobby Robson, but closer in fact And I wondered whether that would revigorate our ludicrous. optimism or whether it would have no impact on it at all or whether it might actually diminish it because because of that sense of You know, we're going to do it this time, we're going to do it this time. And then if you nearly do it, you actually become less optimistic about next time because you sort of start harboring the thought that's probably as good as it gets Yeah, possibly. I mean, I had a mini taste of it in a huge brerentth of van and I went out to America three summers ago for like a summer tournament and we thought we traveled around from we went to Philly to Washington and then down to Atlanta. We traveled on a train and had an incredibleuck time, But the pricing of everything, the expense that was expensive and that was for a friendly summer tournament. And they were rinsing it,n't they? I mean, absolutely off the scale Did you grow up in Bramford? be twenty dollars for water, you know And not I mean, it's a bit like I used to go to loveve Ranch at Maximus in Leicester Square in nineteen ninety and they'd turn the taps off in the toilet so that you have to buy mineral water. And they've done that haven't they? in the stadiums, I think? have you' not allowed Briant did you grow up in Bramford Yeah, that was my local team. I grew up in Staines and. And then used to get the train train into Brentford our seaterticket holder for Before the Glory days. forty five years. Before the Gory days arrived. We need to get you down there, James. I've been once or twice, but I would feel like a bit of a fraud. I wish I'd started going when I first moved to Tizick And Because then when I moved to Brentford a few years ago, it would have felt glorious because it would have coincided almost entirely with the premiership and the run but the rise has been incredible. I mean, I know you're a black dog man, but we drink in the steam packet and there's always a spare ticket floating around for you and you're always welc That's lovely.ere a good bunchm. I bet you are, I bet you are. keepe it local, keepe it at home and don't go to the World Cup. So David there, absolutely stoneco football crazy and one of one of the traveveling army one of the traveling army of fans and something about this year, whether it is the Peace Prize, whether it is the cost, whether it is the somethinghing a bit more nuanced, it is just odd. And of course none of us know whether or not we are going to shed these feelings as soon as or in the event of the team doing well, but why? And why aren't you going as well, of course? Oracles, if you are going, perhaps you can inject us with a little bit of your enthusiasm. Andy is in Mast and Maisie, which must be in the Cotswlds James, it is. we've spoken before. I bet the guy before who just was on know's Billy the B Grant who drinks in the steam packet. might be his mate. It might be Billy. said his best mate was called Billy. That's it. Billy's out in Mexico and I'll be going to join I'll be flying to Dallas on Monday. Right. This is my eleventh World Cup fall in England and I'm not excited Come home J not excited. I'll tell you why, too much football I'm a West Ham fan. I go everywhere. It's just football on the Ty the whole time. When we were teached, it wasn't. The World Cup was very special It's less special. This is the biggest World Cup. It's going to go on for five and a half weeks But there's a bit too much of it. The sweepstakes have been at forty eight teams, is it? So the sweepstakes ridiculous. Theres There's only ever four people who've got a chance of winning it. There's forty four people are putting their money in the back and knowing from the minute they pull their team out that they're never going to see that money again I'm going to come home when Erry Cane comes home, so it could be early, it could be late or you know, we might come over win it. But the thing is What your previous call was that We've done really well in recent years. G South Gate, I one of the best things that happenens to inngish short t And I was at the you know, I was at the final and the two finals and the semifinal and the quarter final to win the World Cup you've got to end up beating somebody like Spain or France or Brazil or Argentina And at the end of the day, we have to be very, very good and are're going to do that So I like the fact that we're not all hyped up at the moment about o Yeah. I like that. I like the fact that we can go in know, a bit undercover. if we can get to the semif finals witherman with our German manager, I think we can probably take our chances. But you know it's already started, James after last night we playing Costa Rica, didn't even qualify for the World Cup We've beat the three and everyone's going, well, you know what? We're going to win.ell you what? I tell you what I tell you what, you know. You've I need to reassure people they haven't accidentally tuned into five liive because you have managed to turn it into a football phone. The second call in, we've moved away from the politics, which listen I'm not excited. that's the thing I'm interested in. That's I'm not excited. It's too expensive them the money How much he spent? How much have he spent? So far, just on the ticket. So because we're loyal top capitalals for England. We get, you know, we get the priority. Oh lovely Yeah, but there's a scheme that FIFA sort of sign you up to, which means we've paid around about eight thousand dollars Book And that gets every England game that we play. You get refunded than the Lord if we don't play those games but our tickets for the final are over two thousand dollars a. Holy. to be fair, it's cheap at half the price if we're in the final If you're in the final will given the final will be f up with JP Mldens , you know on corporate entertainment. I mean we wouldn't be able to get a ticket for lo of money. Alough I'm may be paying them I can get tickets for anything. But no, I'm not excited. That's really interesting. I You're excited enough to go. It's almost like you have to go. But no this is my eleventh one, James, I You can't break the record. You can't break the My m, my mother who is still alive said to me when I was a kid watching the nineteen seventy Wor Cp I said, I'm going to go watch England everywhere. No, you're not. The first one was eighty two. She was never qualified up to. And I've defied her every time. you've shown her You us so you're going to be you're going be inic having a miserable time just to stick it to your m mer miserable can be. But your mum will have to eat her humble pi at Lu. safe journey mate. Stay safe out there. And thank you for that. That is, I mean, that's extraordinary. Tw calls in, isn't it? And hardcore England fans One that sufficiently disillusioned not to make the trip. O only really making the trip because he doesn't want to break his record. He doesn't want to drop the the series and neither of them remotely excited. And I still want to know why. Every answer is going to be slightly different zero three, four, five, six zero six zo nine, seven three is the number you need. And is there anything we can do about it? I need some Scottish voices as well. I presume that the excitement in Scotland is much greater. I know one of my goddaughters will be staying up until two o'clock in the morning with her brother to greet the match with enormous excitement But I don't know whether or not they are exceptions to the rule or proof of this particular pudding It's ten thirty one, Dominic Ellis has your headine ten thirty four is the time. I'm well aware of the continuing horrors unfolding on the streets of Belfast. We dedicated almost all of yesterday's In fact, we dedicated the entire phoning element of yesterday's show to it. Th getting things calming down a little, but not getting better in any meaningful sense. And of course the provocations and incitements that are on some social media platforms, most obviously the one owned by Elon Musk, who is among the people engaging in provocations and incitemments, remain hideous not unaware of that. Two things really. Nber one, I thought we could take a day off from the really dark stuff. I think sometimes you have to for your mental health, never mind mine. And number two, this is the biggest day on the worldld's entertainment calendar. I clarify in the spirit of Andy Murray, I'm talking about the Men's World Cup, obviously. When I say it's the biggest day on the world's entertainment calendar That is the Menensswld Cup. That's not an opinion, that's counting. So of course there are more than two World Cups a decade, as one teextter has taken me to task for. But you only have the biggest day on the worldld's entertainment calendar twice a decade because the Menenswld Cup is whether you like it or not, and I don't think it's something worth getting upset about. the Menswld Cup is an entirely different order of event to the Women's World Cup for now, you know, for now. But the pace of change in that particular area is extraordinary. I do want to catch up on one element of events in Belfast, which is I mean, again, I just wonder whether this is a rage pure enough or cold enough for Nigel Farage, but yesterday I hoped it was false or at least embellished when I saw reports of specific addresses being circulated. urging people to attack those specific addresses. So I said to you yesterday The first time I used the word Pgrom, I think was during the Farriage riots after the Southport killings when he decided that Andrew Tate was a more trustworthy or a more reliable news source than anyone else and help to disseminate Absolute nonsense. Culminating, of course, in hideous scenes on streets in various towns across this country and in people being sent to jail, including that woman who called for a poggrom, who literally called for a pogrom and ended up being fated on stage at Nigel Farage's party conference, which is a little odd, isn't it? But very much of a piece with the current direction of traffic M So I don't know whether circulating the addresses of people whose crime is to have not been born here is pure enough or cold enough rage for him because of course it's unlikely I'll ever get the chance to ask him. But I do want to catch up on that element of the story a little later in the programme. I' I also what time is it? ten thirty se? Oh good. I also have an answer to a question that I posed on yesterday's show, which was how long how much time elapsed between Cammi Badenoch insisting Everybody must be treated in exactly the same way by the police and Kemy Bedenoock insisting that black boys must be treated very differently by the police from anybody else. And I think we've got the answer. So here's the first bit The idea that each person should be treated the same, regardless of who they are is a value so deeply ingrained in our culture that most people in Britain accept it as a self evident truth Can we start the clock, Keith? and then when a little alarm goes off, will know exactly how long it lapsed between Cami Bader not saying that everyone should be treated the same and Cami Bader not saying that everybody should absolutely not be treated the same? Because when I asked you that question, I was thinking hours, right And I was thinking about the first time she said it on both occasions, but it turns out that she may have done it spoiler alert in a single speech. So the clock is now ticking I asked for the countdown theme tune. They look to me as if that was a really bad dad joke, so we're not getting the countdown theme tune on this part of the programe, but the clock is now ticking. Do we have a sound effect, Keith The clock is now ticking And when the alarm goes off, do we know what the alarm is going sound like? donon't play the alarm. But if weve got an actual alarm, are we're going to have to do that as well wonderful. We've got an alarm Thanks That will be the amount of time that has elapsed between Kami Badeno saying everybody must absolutely be treated the same and Cami Badeno saying that everybody must absolutely not be treated the same. I think even by her standards, this one is an absolute whipper snapper ten thirty eight is the time back to the football and why we're not more excited? Unless of course we are in which case, I'm jealous I think, actually. but you speak to David and to Andy and you sort of realize even the hardcore fans are feeling what I'm feeling. So it's a thing, it's a real thing Lisa is in Lcks Heath, Lisa, what would you like to say? Yeah, obbviously, I've been on before, James. I'm from California and I might have actually combined the trip home to see some of the games But T birds with one stone. Yeah. but I compare this World Cup to the one we had in America, I think in nineteen ninety four. and Bill Clinton was president, and we didn't have any of this immigration stuff as far as It's really taken a shine off for me that it ceased to be a cup for the people and more for the elite And you know the ticket pricing, Scottish fans not getting their Esta, a referee who I watched in the African Nations Cup, who's an excellent referee is banned because he's from Somalia. This is Omar Artam. Yes, That was a horrible story. I mean, he received the hero's welcome at home, But when he spoke about the biggest dream of his life being dashed because of the country he was born in Well we we know how America feels about Somalians. We know. We've seen it in Minnesota. But it's also the Iran team not being able to stay in America, even though they're playing their matches in LA. LA has the largest Iranian community outside of Iran.. Yes, it does Because I know, because I know people that moved over in nineteen seventy nine and they to flee the shaw. after the shw was disosed, they were Bahais, which is my religion and they flew over and they live in California and they live in LA. because the climate is very similar to Iran. It has you know, and their their neighbors were there, they just moved and they can't some of their tickets have been revoked because they're Iranian. And to me, that does take a spin off of I'm going to probably go to Portugal and Spain in four years because that's the people's it's the people's game And is this FIFA or is it Trump? or is it a what is I think FIFA Well we saw what happened when they gave him the trophy the gold prorophy. We know what's happening with FIFA. They will not do anything against Trump So you know, he's he's basically, I can w can hardly wait u till he shows up to some of these games and possibly his booot, hopefully, but he will get in on it. And I'm sorry, but I think Stve h hasb beens spineless I love football, but I'm not going to the World Cup to be price gouged while sports washing the world's latest and most powerful fascist state writes Nick. You absolute kill joy He's got a point, hasn't he? Well, I mean, the thing is is that I I love England. I love I mean, I've watched them for forty two years. I even go England against the United States. I Well, the reason why is because it's not our national game Fair enough And you know, I watch NFL, I watch baseball, I watch NBA. I love that the Kicks are doing what they're doing. Those are our national sports. Football ranks way way down there. But this is England's national game And to me, I've supported them all along. And will I don't care what time I have to stay up to watch them. I will watch them So you are you are actually quite excited, but you are not going for reasons independent of your enthusiasm for the sport. And I just hope that it doesn't overshadow you know, like I support Sunderland and Some of our I'm going to support the countries that our players are coming from, but one of our players is from Congo. He's had to isolate for twenty one days. None of those Congolese players have been to Congo with Ebola. They all live in Belgium And America has discounted that. They've said, no, they have to isolate, but they've not been anywhere near Africa They live in Europe. Oh w you're schooling me on all sorts of fronts. Yeah. Well you know, Brian Bobb one of our best players. he plays for Holland for Amsterdam. li their Amsterdam. So he's fine, but our other player other player Sadiki, he can't go he has to be quarantined. As if he'd been in If you've been in Congo, that's fine, but none of them are. They. Well, that's immigration policy as a weapon, isn't it? rather than as a tool of safety or security. Just out of pure curiosity. Yeah. How did you end up supporting Sunderland? Because we lived in Sunderland. from Sunderland. Oh We were seasoned ticket holders there before we moved to s So I love Thunderland. and I got to watch all our players There is I should know Yeah And Ill tell you what you've done. I mean, all the cours have done this, but you've done it better than anybody else. reminded us of the good side of football, the uniting force of sport in general and football in particular and the way that it breaks down barriers and the way that You know, given what's going on in this country at the moment, it's quite nice to be reminded that you can be a foreign national and still support England. It's perfectly capable to ride two horses at the same time or to swap horses. As a lot of us have done throughoutves to hop from English to Irish or whatever it may be. in Lisa's case from British to American, and it's not difficult But some people seem to think it's almost impossible. I love that. A timely and necessary reminder of the healing power of sport. But again with that rather unpleasant caveat, I don't want to go to this one. I don't want to go to this one. lookook at what they're doing to the actual players. never mind the fans U canan I get a call? Has anyone actually tried to go and failed to go? Has anyone had a visa visa issues? zero three four five six zero six zero nine seven three Peter's inrth on, Peter. What would you like to say? Oh yes. good morning, James. I am going over to watch the England Panama game V'sery fortunate that my daughter lives nearby and I can stay with her. also the big thing for me is that the last match that I watched England World Cup match was the nineteen sixty six World Cup final. What live? You were there Yes, I was there live And this is this is the first England game you would have gone to since you saw them win the World Cup That's correct. Yes. I mean I reckon and I could be wrong probably are in a minority of one Ride Then you was a great that was a life a lifetime moment for me because I went with my dad. And the opportunity now that I'm going to take up is to go to this next World Cup match with my daughter. Oh, how lovely, how absolutely lovely. And I think that what you've described is, Oh, sorry, Peter, there's the alarm. E Would you excuse me just for a moment Was that the best we could do? Seriously? I wanted sort of at least a bell or something. So how many minutes was that approximately eight minutes it took Gammy Baderock to go without noticing from insisting that everybody should be treated exactly the same by the police to insisting that everybody shouldn't I'm afraid it doesn't matter if more black boys are searched because it will mean more black lives are saved. Okay, eight minutes. There we go. and we've got a new sound effect to add it to the arsenal. And just a quick word on that, the massive proportion of reasons for stop and search is actually looking for drugs, not knives. And Black kids who are stopped and searched are measurably less likely to be found to have drugs on them than white kids. So she's not even right, even as she's massively hypocritical Back to Peter, this has nothing to do with the situation in the United States of America, really. This is all about family and history and tradition and seeing your daughter It ites. but I'm also a very keen football supporter. I've supported Ea fifity. Well, you're not that keen, mate. You haven't been to an England game since nineteen sixty six. Well, no, but you never lose the affiliation with your home teh. Of course you't And I can remember starting to watch Oxst the City in nineteen fifty four when The then manager went to the World Cup and met my parents in Switzerland for around nineteen fifty four So this is extraordinary. This is like a goldmine of anecdotes, goldmine of World Cup anecdotes. And let's hope that the Panama game is part part of a path to nineteen sixty six style glory. Well, I mean, you wouldn't go back for the final, would you if we no, no, no that's big money. It is big money. It is big money. Yeah. no, I will enjoy this and And I look forward to it. Well, thank you. In terms of people getting more excited, I I was driving around this morning, I'm seeing more and more cars with England flags on And deffinitely cars, not lamp posts Definitely car. Okay, that's good carars good. Lampast's not so good. Well and that's always the hope, isn't it that things will pick up as the team delivers, but just have a sense there's going to be a shadow over events regardless of what transpires. I'm not lots of people suggesting Peter deserves a rayleay oota. Why would I give Peter a rayleottor for that It's a brilliant coincidence. It's a brilliant anecdote, the first game he's going to go to since the nineteen sixty six final Spoilerer England won is the is the imminent game against Panama in the current tournament. but I don't I he wasn't the only one there. I know he he might be the only one who's going to be at the Panama game who was at the nineteen sixty six, but that's just a coinc. that's not Well, I don't know, maybe I'm being a bit of a misery g firstirst time for everything. This is nice from Mike. Great sound effects, James and Keith Hashtag, no expense spent Yeah could be almost the motto for this show, couldn't it No expense spent. And we go. Here's a little exchange. I haven't cleared it with them, but here's a little exchange from a WhatsApp group that I am in with some friends Um There's some language here I can't necessarily repeat But here we go or not bothered I'll say instead of the word that has been deployed, by said F. Proper not bothered by the World Cup this time round. justust seems like FIFA are the catalyst for the world's biggest grift. Hotels jacking up prices, train firms increasing fares three hundred percent, and then there's the tickets. Dynamic pricing needs to stop. It's killing gigs and sport to which another friend replies, I'm not excited either. But that does often happen with me and the World Cup. I'll be dancing about with a Viv ela before I know it. I'm gutted there's no Linaker though. Linak's there actually. Linak is there with Netflix and doing the rest is football. with I don't know whether they' got game access as well, but they're definitely there. told me when we recorded full disclosure together a couple of months ago And then the final word on this I've got the new red shirt. It's a hookie one, mine Psy markarket's finest. So that's the exchange that's going on on my personal WhatsApp or one of my personal WhatsApp groups and it reflects what seems to be going on in the wider world. It's time for some enthusiasm. Kia notot that one. is in Watford here, what would you like to say? Good morning, James. I just want to say that there's a lot of nineteen sixty six collectson' gone off after your last conversation with. Yes, I bet there is I'm very excited about this World Cup. It's certainly not exciting than the car park I been in Montford at the moment The rest of my family are going. My brother Hamish is quite well known in Scottish football supportorting circles and was in the eye paper with you yesterday. Oh a historic ition. That's a collector's item, then, isn't it? for two reasons? Oh, I gave a pound for it, so. So yes, I saw him. I saw that in the papest Well the Scots aren't excited. It's been twenty eight years since we've been the World Cups, but England G the b cup is every time nobody's thinking about whether they're going to qualify for the next one.. You've had semif finals and finals recently. Of course you're not excited at this point, but for Scotland, This is somethingomet we've been waiting for for a generation. My son was born just after the last Bottall Cuub and I was at the opening game And I took him to Germany. and if I able to go, I would have felt I would have needed to have taken him. I couldn't havefford that. I'm a part time teacher. Right. And I took my daughter to the Women's World Cup with a womomen's plans. Y But on top of that, on top of the price but is always the politics. and When I couldn't afford to go, I started entering competitions and I'd ended ent and I'd collect the tops of cereial boxes, I'd do online, whatever. then are sculpted because I didn't want to support this regime. Yeah. and I mean it is, you know You'd like to think, I mean, you think of all the idiots who will always say, let's keep politics out of sport. And have you ever read a history book? Have you ever read you can't separate one from the other, However much you might want to. You can hold your nose I think and good luck to the people who've decided to do that. I don't think attending in any way boosts or enhances Donald Trump's depravity, but it does kind of excuse it, doesn't it It does. it gives it gives him further opportunity. and if the whole world had boycotted it and there was empty stadiums, then it would make a statement That's not going to happen. It was never going happen. Yeah, that was never going to happen And football is such that it arouses passions. you're going to try and get. I mean, the Iranian sci' trying to go and get banned and Football is going to attract people and people are going to go. when you haven't been for twenty years hard I'm glad you were listening. I'm glad because I wanted to get that angle covered. And Hyish is going Absolutely. his plane's about to take off. I just talked to him in Glasgy airport half an hour ago. Fantastic.ight And you know, go well and go safe. you cover all of the angles there from a Scottish point of view. It's very, very different for Scottish fans than it is for English fans for all the reasons that Kir has identified and yet you would still feel one brother. going despite the regime, O brother wouldouldn't have gone even if he could have g done because of the regime. And there it is. And that is a large part of the reason why it's happened. G back to the Peace Prize at the very beginning. I think because there's been so much absolute madness with Donald Trump's second presidency You lose sight of the individual moments of it. They sort of get swamped in each other. they're flooding the zone with or doure But giving a peace prize to Donald Trump. What was that about Seriously to give you a peacep and he was so happy. that was the really pathetic thing about it He was so happy Anyway, there's still a war in Iran. Malcolm's an older Malcolm, what would you like to say? Hi, James. Fotball Football for me has been massive in my past. But this world cup it's doing nothing for me, abbsolutely nothing. When I settled in Germany, I had a problem with the language and I joined the Ws football team. and I learnnt the language so quickly And then followed by I became captain of the team, then I became head coach of the team. Football was everything to me. And now But this will cook I'm sorry, but absolutely empty, and it's all down to Trump. Right I mean, in a way, I want to tell you not to give him that agency and not to give him that power, but I can't No no. it' Do you know what I mean? I want to say Don't let him ruin yourin. donon't let him steal this from you. No it's going to end up being the Donald Trump shows part two. Well, I mean, I suppose we could all change our tune pretty quickly if every crowd at any game he attends treats him with the content that he deserves and with which he was shown in New York the other night. Yeah, but that'll probably be bleed out or whatever. Or if Av Fantino recedes not recedes, what's the word that I want? Rescinds his peace ofes I mean none of these things are gonna happen. gu That guy is disgusting. He is, isn't he pin around somebody I mean hideous to what. Truly. He's like like Smithers in the Simpsons He's like Smithers in The Simpsons, isn't it? he won't stand up to Trump that poor referee, his dream was to well of his lifelong dream, Omar Aran a Somali refugee rebanned from attending because he's Somali Yeah. and the Americans of this story that he's got related to terrorism or something like that.one is Everyone is once they're in that particular firing line. You're right.' yeah, disgusting is the word. and I mean, he's actually thanked FIFA for his support. but It is a FIFA spokesperson who said he won't be able to train or officiate at the tournament, which starts in Mexico City tonight Um Even the government got involved, tried to negotiate with the US so that he could get into the US into the country, but was told that he couldn't. So don't bring politics into sport, say various members of the increasingly far right. but but it's absolutely fine to ban a referee from the World Cup because he's from the wrong country for political reasons, but don't bring pol No, I can't do it. C can't see any sense in these clowns increasingly even as everything gets uglier and naastier. It's coming up to eleven o'clock complete change of pace next kindind of link to what I was just talking about, but it's the birth rate again. This is huge. huge It is eleven o three. It was very interesting what Kir said about a boycott and how it was doomed to fail because it just was even in nineteen thirty six when the Olympics were held in Berlin and I don't think you need Any help from me in remembering what was going on in Berlin in nineteen thirty six. They were brief campaigns to boycott the games talk about relocating them, but it never happened. and everybody went, I think, in the end forty nine. Teams ultimately took part. They took down thingsings like anti Jewish signage. did you know that? As the world arrived in Berlin for what was a PR coup potentially for Hitler, they took down Things like anti Jewish signage, anti gay laws were relaxed a real sort of camouflage job undertaken. So there's nothing new under the sun, you know, And I mean, I don't think you can compare Donald Trump's regime to Adolf Hitler's, although I suppose in nineteen thirty six, the full extent of what would happen under Hitler hadn't unfolded and in America they do shoot their own citizens in the face for peaceful protest. They're locking people up because of their ethnicity and homophobia is on the rise as Well, as indeed it is here with some reform cououncils taking down pride flags. It always goes hand in hand Bigotry is never an only child Bigotry is always enjoys company But thirty six out you carry God I mean, you know his name and you are familiar with the story, but could you just imagine what it must have been like when Jesse Owens won everything There's no potentially equivalent to that unless I don't know you don't particularly want Iran to win the World Cup. The regime in Iran is hideous, but there's nothing that could really happen at the World Cup that would deliver a metaphorical hit to Donald Trump in the way that Jesse Owens humiliated Hitler. This entire myth of Aryan supremacy currently being rep popularized by people like Elon Musk. but this complete myth of Aryan supremacy Coming face to face was one of the finest athletes at the time. One of the finest athletes ever to walk the eararth. Jesse Owens winning, I think, was it four gold one hundred, two hundred, the long jump and the relay Well, Adolf Hitler was trying to punt some sort of idea of white supremacy, of Aryan supremacy. Could you imagine what a moment that must have been And America at the time wasn't a particularly pleasant place for a black man to live either. Let's not get carried away with this, but could you just imagine for a moment what that must have been like And that again, oh, don't bring politics into sport. justust shut up seriously. What a stupid thing to say extraordinary to reflect upon. And if they couldn't boycott the Olympics when Adolf Hitler was the Chancellor of Germany, I think the idea of boycotting the World Cup when Donald Trump was The President of the USA would have been a little bit would have been absurdly optimistic. That's just a little postcript to what we were talking about in the first hour. I suppose England winning would be the biggest. ye, Beatrice suggests mayaybe England winning the World Cup would be The most problematic. What would be the worst? Just text me this with your reason, all right? from Trump's point of view, who would be the worst winner? Iran obviously. forget that. That's not a game anymore It's just the rest of us wouldn't necessarily be celebrating. He'd still be deeply humiliated, but it's not necessarily something that the rest of us would want. England would be pretty good. England would be pretty good. South Africa Anyway, I digress. I want to talk about something completely different now. It's a subject that I have been hovering around. We've landed on it occasionally. pretty clear on why We began the week talking about university education with the important explanation from me that I have nothing of interest to say on the subject, except through the lenses of my children's experience Because as we established pretty quickly, my experiences of university are utterly out of date and completely redundant I mean, if only more people paid for their opinions in this country would admit that they've realized or would realize that their opinions have become completely out, here's a long line of old white men to talk to you about stop and such legislation. If only more people paid for their opinions would recognize that their opinions have become or possibly always were Um, utterly redundant. They have become completely irrelevant. My experiences have nothing to do with the modern experience It might sound odd to you when I tell you what the next subject is, because I think it fits into the same category It's about babies The Daily Mail reports it in characteristically apocalyptic language. and national baby crunch is feared as women are waiting longer to start families and having fewer children I mean, on one level, it's hardly surprising everybody's skin And on another level, it's hardly surprising, is it? Because the calculations that you do when you decide whether or not you're going to have a baby are completely different from what they were when I was twenty eight and I got married And we started trying for babies a couple of years later. It was a long and quite difficult journey for us, but with a very, very happy ending. And of course, if we'd started much later The happy ending would have been measurably less likely. That's the way that it goes with fertility treatment and IVF. But and it is the age The mothers and grandmothers of genereration X women, that's people born between nineteen sixty five and nineteen eighty, me Our mothers and grandmothers had Children, their first child respectively, about twenty seven and twenty eight Now for Generation Z You're looking at about thirty five before you get to roughly one child per woman And Generation X mothers were having fewer children than their predecessors and Genation Z. are likely to have fewer still So There are two ways into this. For me, at least And one of which is personal, to me and to you, and one of which is is not One of which is social, one of which is political You know when we talk about university and I talk about being middle class and how it was just a presumption that you would go That's just a given. okay? If you from my kind of background, you didn't particularly have to go to private school, but well you definitely didn't have to go to private school. there was a presumption If you came from a certain background that you would go to university It wasn't like an achievement, it wasn't exceptional Tony Blair changed that. Tony Blair threw open the doors of our universities to people from families who had never sent anybody to university before I came from a family that had never sent anybody to university before, but by the time I came along, Mum and dad had got to a position where it would be a given that their children went to university. They'd sort of reached that social strata I think it's fair to say Gardless Oh This is Don't be wrong, right? and if I am then tell me Please But I think what I'm about to say is true. I think that Until relatively recently whatever your status in society You grew up The massive majority, I know there are exceptions and I will of course acknowledge and include those in the conversation, but I'm speaking about a plurality. I'm speaking about a generalization, a massive majority. unless you had consciously decided that you didn't want something I think that almost all of us grew up If you're generation X or older. So if you're born anytime nineteen eighty or before, I think that almost all of us grew up. expecting to be parents If you think of life as a conveyor belt, The school Um And then depending on your background, there might be college or university. And then there is meeting someone and again, going back certainly pre to nineteen eighty, getting married, finding someone you wanted to spend the rest of your life with. Happily, during our lifetimes, that has ceased to be an exclusively heterosexual milestone, it can now involve same sex couples and same sex marriages. and then you would normally exxpect the next item on the conveyor belt to be Parenthood It was like a kind of Is it' conveyor belt the thing that I'm looking for it was like a kind of U checklist of adulthood, a checklist of life. And once you moved into adulthood, Job partner. baby and The statistics tell us that that was completely baked in to our society Eessentially marriage exists to raise children. You get married to start a family And of course, marriage is no longer part of the equation, but finding a partner and starting a family categorically Categorically U people in my age and thereabouts, the most fundamental Life expectation It's a life expectation. And I don't know if it is anymore So it's one of those phones where I'm throwing out plea to callers and listeners who are much younger than me or the parents of callers and listeners who are much younger than me. So I think you if you're born nineteen eighty or before, you recognize what I describe You know, you get together, do people still say, Shall we expect the patter of tiny feet? Do people still do that? You get together with someone, you settle down, certainly you get married. Everybody expects you to have a baby. I want to know whher I don't think that's true anymore. I think that people of my age read this stuff from the wrong angle sometimes And for a start, I automatically feel sorry for you. You don't want my pity, do you? You don't want my sib. I automatically feel soor God, imagine not I just think that what I thought was In our DNA almost, I thought it was like a genetic urge Maybe isn't. Maybe it was always a lot more parasocial than it was Genetic This idea that I must have a baby, I will have a baby. And the bit I find odd about the socioeconomic element of it When I say to you, everybody's skin, of course they're not having a baby. that the and contraception of course has played a big part in what I'm describing. So we're talking inevitably about the post contraceptive. Eera aren't we? Because prior to that, you couldn't really have sex without having lots of babies if you were both fertile. Um for the first time in my life, in the last couple of years, I've started thinking this isn't some sort of evolutionary engine This is a social expectation Society expects you to have a baby And therefore you expect to have a baby when you reach a certain stage of your life And I just want to know whether or not There agree with my suspicion that that's not true anymore. and that you don't feel any particular And you may not even realize how odd that is to someone of our generation You don't feel any particular I'm not talking about people who know that they don't want a baby I'm talking about people who are ticking lots of boxes. We were meeting lots of expectations of an adult life in Britain in twenty twenty six, but having a baby just isn't one of them anymore. You don't feel I can't tell you how awful it was when I contemplated childlessness I don't know why it was so awful I couldn't bear that thought. It was hideous when I thought when we thought that we might not be able to have babies I think that in the twenty years, twenty five years give or take since that happened to me I think things have changed quite profoundly. Of course there are still loads of people who desperately want babies and they will still be utterly heartbreaking and hideous to discover that you might not be able to or even that you can' I thought it was coming from inside me that urge. I thought it was genetic I thought it was DNA. I thought it was survival of the species I speak to young people today. And they are much more relaxed about things. They are much more blas. Yeah, I'd quite like to have a baby, but you know, I've got to get my career up and run. It's not as if For my generation, it would have left a gaping hole and an aching pain, an aching chasm. I could be completely wrong in which case you know what to do. zero three four five, six zero six zero nine seven three. because society has changed. social expectation has changed. and what people my age need to realize is that people, your age are not growing up presuming they'll have children are not growing up expecting something to happen because the reason you feel so bereft when you find out it might not Because you always thought it would, o, this is I'm getting there Oh blime me, it's a relief to me when this happens. I'm about to make sense, Keith. Start the clock So because I grew up always expecting to have a baby, Al expecting to be a parent We never really questioning it, I'll be a parent one day And then the moment when I contemplated the possibility that I never would be. It felt like something was being taken away from me I felt that I was being robbed of my birth right If I had grown up not thinking it was a given, not expecting it to happen. not bllisely presuming that that would be the next box to tick, the next thing to check off on my list of life then I wouldn't feel robbed. or cheated or bereft when I reached a point in my life where I was when I was thirty Has our society changed that much is my question to you. so that in fact The desire to have a baby had more to do with social expectation than it did with any sort of internal engine. And it's funny that you missed this point so completely, Matthias. Are you asking if humans had babies for millennia to conform with social norms? No mate. you've forgotten about contontraception and abortion. I mean, it's is we haven't even had a hundred years yet in which women had full bodily autonomy. So I don't want to be rude, but that is a contribution of quite epic stupidity. It's an easy thing to miss because you grew up in a world where contraception was easy Well having sex without having babies was absolutely a given. We're relatively new to this as a species. Having lots of sex without having lots of babies is a relatively new phenomena And it means that the social norms and the social expectations that were in place for millennia no longer actually apply Is it true that this generation, the generations that we're talking about don't have anything like The Hefty emotional investment in imminent parenthood than my generation did. Ohero three, four, five, sixzero sixzero nine, seven three And then the second question, whichich might be a lot easier to answer actually is tell me about the moment you realized. tellell me about the moment you realized you were never going to have children. And this is coming from a place where you kind of thought you would However passionately you were committed to that ambition, don I don't know. It doesn't matter the moment when you realized, was it liberating It's a beautiful piece in one of the newspapers today with the author Elizabeth Day, who is a wonderful force for good. Have youam read her work, you probably listened to some of her podcasts and she wrote and spoke so powerfully about her own attempts to become a parent. Ultimately it didn't happen for her and she continues to write incredibly beautifully about the issue But she's my age. she's actually that's a terrible, say. She's a bit younger than me, but she's generationally much closer to me than perhaps you are So what What is that moment like where you just sort of cut the ord and think, actually no, it's never going to happen Be I don't it's such an age based thing this. It's eleven twenty one It's twenty three minutes after eleven, you're listening to James O'Bren on LBC. I suppose? The people I feel sorriest for if that's an appropriate emotion would be the people who sort of thought, well we'll do it later And then when later came You discovered that it was going to be much, much harder than that. And if you'd moved earlier, it would have happened, but because you left it late it didn't. that's an extra dimension to the conversation U Ewan is in Baston. Ewan, what made you pick up the phone It made me pick up the phone, James, Hello, long time listener. It made me pick up the phone just because the idea of having kids and everything like that, it just feels like a financial impossibility. For people my age specifically, around twenty seven years old. you look at my parents' generation, married at twenty three, twenty four respectively first child at about thirty, twenty five, that kind of age. Grandparents, two kids by twenty six. You try and live that same thing. you know I work two jobs, My partner works one job. You try and do that exact same thing, play by the same rules And you know It feels impossible My partner was crying in the kitchen the other day She lost She lost ninety pounds in sick pay. That's all it is. ninety pounds in her pay packet, all that difference And she felt she couldn't afford to just live And she sits there and she's just like, I just want to be a mum. You know, life feels like and I say this to my friends all the time, life feels like Marriage, kids and a house pick two. So you still grew up feeling like that as I did, despite the fact that I am exactly twice your age Good job. I I've always wanted to be a father, James, and at this rate it feels like even one child will be a mass I mean, a child is privilege anywways, but what I'm saying Of course I do. And that's another element of the story actually. The number of people only having one child is higher than it's ever been the idea is, you know Well, forgive me for being crass. All right. Thank you But people raise children in considerably less comfort than you currently enjoy Precisely, there are people, I say to my partner, you know, there are people less well off than us with one or two kids And I may think maybe there's considerations of access to childcare. there' people who never left our hometown. My partner and I, we moved to Nottingham, fell in love, we lived together. So we don't have that access to childcare per se. Our family are a little bit further away. That's actually huge, isn't it? So if your parents were looking after your baby, then you'd both be able to work and therefore you'd be able to afford the baby. But you can't if you don't have that option, and the government's providing free child carere on le that we haven't seen before, but you know, obviously not not enough and not inal for some family I mean, you understand that like society was at a point where one full timee wage could support a family of up to four Now we are at the point where two full time wages and a part time job, which I'm currently on my way to can barely afford rent and a little bit of life So it's an absolute I mean, it's not a stupid question, but it's an easy answer. I mean, you're joking on you. just to add an extra U To quote George Michael, if my best isn't good enough, then how can it be good enough for two? How on earth am I supposed to support an extra child, let alone my partner and I. You know, we live fairly comfortably. Do not get me wrong, James. Of course. we're trying to be responsible. We're trying to be at a point where We can have this kid But then you know, live a relatively comfortable life still because God forbid I'd let that kid be poor. not that being poor is a bad thing know I know what you mean, but I mean that is that's one of the things that's easy to say from the outside, isn't it? Well, you know, live on beans but be a dad. It doesn't cause you pain Can you define pain for me, please, James? Does it make you very sad But Yes, more so for my partner than myself. C she some She wants nothing more than it. you know, She shows me all these little Instagram videos of mums and their babies and everything like that. And then you know, she can't afford the food shop. it raakes her really sad that Do it reminds her how far out of reach that next stage would be? and have you, I mean, is it still In your mind Have you written it off as a possibility or is it still there orbeit unlikely? So My parents through complications, they had me their first child at thirty two and thirty three respectively. So we still have a little bit of time in that respect and I'm doing my utmost best to try and moveve up socially. But you just need a slightly higher degree of financial security before you'd feel or maybe not even slightly before you'd feel comfortable And you speak, I suspect for countless twenty seven And that is a big difference, albeit that you and particularly your partner feel As keenly, I think as I would have done the sense of loss or the sense of Potential absence. I do wonder whether it is as commonplace among your generation as it would have been as mine And certainly if we were to go a little younger than you you're no longer growing up with the expectation because you're aware of the impossibility. But I don't know. I mean, you may be the first item of evidence to disprove my suspicions or to disprove my theory that it isn't it isn't as What's the word that I want? It isn't as overriding a sensation as it was for your parents' generation or your grandparents' generation. And it wasn't a sensation, it was an expectation. and if it was an expectation rather than a sensation, then if you grow up without the expectation, then the Then the realization, what a lot of Asents. then the realization that it isn't going to happen is not going to hit anywhere near as hard as it does if you've grown up with the expectation. I hope that makes sense. It's coming up to half past eleven. I've got a World exxclusive for you next. You remember I suggested to you yesterday that there would be some tummy tickler somewhere preparing to pretend that Nigel Farrage was telling the truth when it was claimed that he'd been banned from desert Island discs. Well I was right. Step forward the Spectator magazine who someone sent me a link this morning, have indeed done a kind of fake desesert Island discs thing with Nigel Farris. And what we've got is a world exclusive of one of the songs That the Tommmy Ticklers who have presumably agreed not to ask him about the five million pounds secret donation or about the claim that his phone was hacked by Russian spies or indeed about his decision to completely ignore the expressed wishes of Henry Novak's family by calling for pure cold rage after the imprisonment of Henry's murderer all are the questions that he's currently avoiding and evading In the most effective of fashions, if you promise not to ask any of those questions, you can ask him what his favorite songs are. Well, I've beaten them to it. I've got a worldld exclusive next of one of the songs that will indeed appear on Nigel Farage's fake Desert Island discs. But before that here's Dominic Glas with the headlines It is eleven thirty three. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC Mystery are on the way at twelve be exciting, would? But we have actually taken a step out of the deepest end of current affairs this morning, having spent most of the last two weeks heavily immersed in it as a consequence of the hideous reactions called for, of course, by Nigel Farrid to the sentencing of Henry Novak's murder and then witnessing in Belfast what happens when public figures call for pure cold rage. As I predicted, some tummy ticklers would respond to that hideous conduct by rewarding him with a fake version of Desert Island Dcs. Step forward, Michael Gof Spectator magazine, who claim an exclusive Nigel Farage's desesert Island discs revealed, although I'd be amazed if they were the only Tummy Ticklers to go down this particularly hideous and irresponsible route, but we have managed to secure A a little sneak preview of some of the songs he chose. You've already made your suggestions. Andrew and Eelink says obviously it's white Christmas played Andrew Sam asks is it fire starter by the prodroigy twwisted fire staru. I mean, this one here from James is a bithind the curve. Hi James, whyy don't you ask your wonderful listeners for suggestions of what Nigel might have as his desert Island discs? I'm sure there'll be a few gems. You were right and there was, but I didn't even have to ask them. They came in anyway. And Chris actually, I mean quite magnificently, Chris actually got it right So this is, I am reliably informed onene of Nigel Farage's fake desesert Island discs Oh Take care of your nose by a jumbo gent ryoth wdom it and pretend your name is Kith. I probably need to explain. So I chose that bit of it because it's got Keith in it. It says I don't know why it says pretretend your name is Keith, but the whole song is gibberish U It's the Chicken song by spitting image. You'd need probably to be my age or thereabouts or older to remember the joy that that soul game engeendndered. So it is called the Chicken song, although you wouldn't have known it from that clip because I chose that clip because it contained a lime pretend your name is Keith, which At least one of us doesn't have to do Speaking of clips, I forgot to read out the message earlier when I was moaning about the no expense spent quality of sound effect on this program. Should we just remind people what I got when I asked for an alarm? Here you go, this is what I got And my thanks to all the people that pointed out if Emily Mitless had asked for that, she would have got a peeal of bells played by royal footmen. And it would probably have been delivered more quickly than what I got when I asked Yeah On the most listened to radio show, the most listened to speech radio show in the history of commercial radio in the United Kingdom, right And I said, please get me a really good alarm sound effect And I got this The Russian National Anthem has been suggested by Jason as a possibility. I'd'd be amazed if it wasn't, Jason, to be honest with you Back to the rather more urgent question of birth rates and whether or not I'm barking up the wrong tree when I wonder whether decision or the realization that you're not going to become a parent actually sits less heavily on the shoulders of the younger generation because they didn't grow up. presuming that it would happen in the way that my generation and others did. I don't know and And that's why I'm asking Jonathan's in Kingston, Jonathan, what would you like to say Hi, James. Hello I just I called because you mentioned about people doing everything that's expected of them as they grow up. And me and my partner, we're getting married in two months. That's one thing that's expected of you.. Thank you very much. We bought a flat last year, it's another thing that's expected of you. And there's other things that we'd like to do. We've both got a car and things like that. but one thing that we feel would be ir responsible would be bringing a child into the world. Um I feel the main reason would be the financial things. Ebody's spoken about that. But socially as well, When I speak to my friends about things I feel like my generation are the opposite of yours in many ways. Yeah's Yeah, where we feel like actually Its it would be a choice to have children rather than the sort of default Wow And this is something that you've discussed with peers and're not you're not a sort of outrider. Yes, I think so. I must say I'm a musician. I work in theater, so I've got a slightly I'm not in a normal job. You skew to the liberal. Yes. That.'t we all, Jonathan. Don't we all. And I mean, have you discussed it with your partner? if you don't mind me asking? Yeah last night we werees. So my brother my brother is in his early thirties. Right. He's a banker, his wife is a lawyer And they've had One kit just this year. Right. and They' considered presumably quite a bit better off than you are Yes sign. And that's a key factor in the difference here in the Yeah, I would say so. So for them to choose, but I still think it's a choice to choose to have a kid. Yes is not irresponsible. Whereas and I must admit, you know, I bought a flat or car. Yeah I mean I was going say for most people, you would sort of be on that trajectory. So it's the social issues as much as the fin you mean the world that you would be bringing a baby into. Yes, ye And it's probably a collection of things as well. Like you were just mentioning U about that MP you talking about. You know we're a mixed race relationship. there's aspects of that. I'm white.. But I'm wary of bringing up a child that looks D different to me Yeah in the world that's coming up in the current clate. you know, I wish I could reassure you not to be, but if you were in Belfast at the moment, then well, that's exactly it. Yeah. you have your fears Yeah on the television screening Glorious technical. You're only twenty seven, I think you said Yes. So I mean is there a sense of solidity to this position or do you think it could shift? What I mean, forgive me for being crassed, but what if you won the lottery Well, then I think that takes away the irresponsibility aspect of it. U I we think about the future If so we live in London, I'm a musician, my partner's a baker, so she gets up at four in the morning. We think about if we are going to have kids, we'd move back to where my parents are in Yorkshire. and then sort of completely change our lives to do that I suppose what I'm driving at is the question of whether or not this conversation is one that fills you with dread and sadness or whether it actually feels quite pragmatic to you. Be when I was your age and again there's two calls running now that are exactly half my age. Can we sort this out Can I not have just callers who are exactly half my age this hour, please? You know, I've got feelings, Ellen on When I was your age, this conversation would have been almost unbearable for me, but you sound, at least quite philosophical about Yes, I think it's just become a I think that sort of natural tendency to have kids has gone. I think. Yeah That's what I an interested in Yes. I think that's why we can face it like it's another life decision, like it'sing to buy a house You know, put money in a pension, it feels like it's an aspect like that. rather than a need to have a child and find a way to make it work. Well thank you for that. because I mean, you know not everybody of your generation agrees. we've had two calls from different sides of the coin actually, but that is what I'm wondering and because because society and you haven't grown in a way that just presumed, then the realization that it isn't going to happen is going to land very, very differently than it would on people who had Always presume because society's been heading in this direction for a long time now, a long time now Thank you, Jonathan I don't want to say good luck. I just sort of feel like such an old get if I say good luck, but you know what I mean? eleven forty two is the time. Davave's got a good suggestion for the desert island for the fake desert island discs I would take five million pounds. by the proclaimer I liked it. Millie's in Grimsby, Millie, what would you like to say H I just want to say I don't particularly feel sad about the prospect of not having children. I'm twenty three. I'm engaged. We've bought a house last year, but that doesn't feel like the next logical step to us. I mean I do feel there is pressure from you maybe our parents that it is their expectation to have a child, but we're just not bothered It's not something I'd ever imagined us doing. If it happens, it happens. but both me and my fiancee, we just were quite gladet about it. we're just not bothered Do you think that's an age thing? Do you think that is a more common opinion among your age group than it would have been, for example, among your parents Yeah, a lot of my friends, a lot of my partner's friends just are really bothered about having kids. But when I say to older people my parents generation, I don't want children, I'm not bothered. Yeah. It's all you'll soon change your mind. When I was going to say that Iing for that. that Oh yeah,'t you know, I don't blame you for not wanting children. But when I say it it's all non, you'll change your mind with age. Yeah I mean, you mind I say I might, Yeahah, but I just it's not something I for us you know we're both progressing our careers. There's other things we want to do and we live quite comfortably. We have a dog, you know, we go on days out on a holiday. And I just don't think financially as well that's something we'd be willing to sacrifice. And it never was. I mean, it's not like you were growing up assuming that you'd be a mum one day No, it was never something I imagined when I was a kid. I think that's different from previous generations. I think there was just a presumption that it would happen. Yeah, definitely. L the things assemb. A lot of my friends probably feel the same that they still thinking I'm not bothotherered about having children And that's society that's changed and you are a member of society and you have changed with it. and my generation, you're even less than half my age, great. That's not what I meant I don't know. That's not what I meant. I didn't mean people are even younger when I said, can we stoping way society is going, obviouslyically. I think I personally think there's a lot of misoggny out there at the minute. That's so scary to me as a woman. and I don't think I would want to raise a girl or a boy in this sort of political climate at the minute, the way it's going, I'd be so scared of a boy turning the other way and a girl becoming victim to that We never I don't know I don't know that I ever would have thought like that when I was your age. Yeah, I don't know because I never know we crressures Yeah putting a good man into the world or you know making sure a girl would be safe. Yeah Yeah, and not wanting to have that response. Again, I don't know that If you were to have a child, I think some of those worries would begin to dissipate a little bit. but I'm now flirting with've being patronising. so I want to be very, very careful that don't I'm glad I resisted the to say you might change your tune because I don't think your generation will in the way that mine would have done. You're twenty three years old, you're not thinking about having a child, but when you're twenty eight you will be That's true of people born in nineteen seventy two. I don't think it is true of people like you born in two thousand three. I just don't. And it's a bit like, as I said at the beginning, the conversation about university, I have to recognize. people my age have to recognize that the world we live in The world we lived in when we were Millie's age is not the world that Millie's living in It just isn't. and therefore all of the things that happen to us because of the worlds we lived in aren't happening to people who are now twenty three. you know the best example of this is actually house prices. I think the easiest thing to understand is house prices. So here is someone of a certain age with really strong opinions about young people saying they can't get on the property ladder. And those strong opinions are hinged upon the fact that young people are going on too many holidays, or they've got too many Netflix subscriptions, or they eat too many avocados on toast. And they really mean it. They are absolutely adamant. sometometimes they're talking about their own children or their own grandchildren And then you simply ask them about the multiple. You I know I labour this point, but I make no apology for it until everybody understands it I'm going to carry on labouring it. You say to someone, I did it live on the radio about fifteen years ago and it was like the clouds parted for me. loveovely lady adamant. there wasn't really a big problem with property and young people not being able to buy any. It was all about life choices and they were just choosing not to do this. And my husband worked very hard. and we got a house and we were twenty five years. I said how much did the house cost? He said three and a half grand And how much was his salary? She said, aboutbout a thousand pounds a year And I think he did a bit of part time work on the side as well One income. is a multiple That needs to be Carol Alderman to identify a multiple of three and a half. threeree and a half times your income price of a house. Have a look at what it is now and then go back to these kids and tell them they've got too many Netflix subscriptions. and They ate too many avocados It is ten to twelve. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC. I just want to share something with you if you don't mind, a little update on one of the moments where I I just felt utterly, utterly humbled by how wonderful the people that listened to this programe can be. I don't know if you remember me introducing you to a lovely young lady called Isabele Murphy who was determined to complete her goold Duke of Edinburgh awward despite having cancer and was doing the Eeling Half marathon when we met, but they were very worried that the wheelchair she had would not be sufficiently cushioned. It wouldn't have the right suspension for the kind of activities that you would do on a kneeling half marathon. I caught up with a family this week and she went to Buckingham Palace to get her gold Duke of Edinburgh awward from the Duke of Edinburgh, which may need a little reminder is now Prince Edward. And she was still in the wheelchair that was donated by a company called Sunrise Medical after I think his name was Paul who helped us secure that wheelchair for Isabelle and she is still using it. The company Sunrise Medical donated it. The marketing director drove all the way from the Midlands personally to London halfway to London to meet One of one of Isabele's teachers and hand over the wheelchair. and so not only has she managed to get her Gold Duke of Edinburgh Award, but also she's still using the wheelchair that that is hers now as a direct consequence of the decency and kindness of people who listen to this programme. So I just wanted to congratulate her on that on your behalf and send her all of our love And I should probably also add So I'll get into trouble if I don't that Isabell has a very cool brother The time now is eleven fifty two Mystery hour is on the way you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. I'm not putting I predict a riot on the list Beause it's not, Faragage' fake desert island discs wouldn't be I predict a riot It would be I want a riot. I predict a riot as a much more nuanced song. It's a very different proposition from I fromom the Kaiser Chief's cllassic. So no, I mean, that's by far the most popular suggestion, but it ain't getting on the list. I think I'm still probably favoring white Christmas U Jan's in Stafford to take us back to Parenthood really and generational changes in the most fundamental attitudes towards it. Jan, what would you like to say in trans slide. Whoa, phone line. phone line alert phone line, will'll try fix. I'll talk to Andrew who's in rainum. Andrew. what would you like to say James, good morning. Thanks for having me on. She's found somebody near yours in the previous two calls. Thank goodness for that. Thank a little Um So my point was that my wife and I, she's a few years old than I and we were quite early on in our relationship, early twenties. I'm forty seven now.ight. We had a moment where we were kind of seeing people around us all having kids. and that was the social norm at the time And we secretly both didn't want to have children and luckily enough, had a chat with her. We had a bit of a logical moment. said seeeeing friends, older people, staying together for the kids, doesn't feel right to me. We both went three to one No, we don't want to have kids. Quite lucky then to have found each other in that era. I would say so. It's interesting you say that because it was more of a social norm then Now you push yourself twenty, twenty five years later to and day, that we both pursued a capitalist dream, both I mean, I run a business, I subsequadly sold my shares, and'm pretty much set She's got a great job in the city. And I see people that around me that had children at the same time. and I've got to be honest, it's one of those things where I wonder if it was the right choice. Oh No you're not in a bad. It's not keeping you up at night, but you It's the path not taken, isn't it?' the road not taken You'll never know. you can't do an algorithm or a spreadsheet to work it out. Its slideing indoors moment, I think. Yeah, I suppose it is. And you know, there'll be things that you've achieved and you've done in your life and you have in your life that your friends who had children will also never have. They may well be looking at you and thinking you can't imagine Imagine the kind of holidays we could go on if we didn't have kids. Absolutely. You know, you have miss in style restaurants, you can go to fancy parts of the world and expand horizons in a way they wouldn't be able to. It's always going to be a touch of the grass is Greener. I mean, I wonder if you've got a view at all on this generational question and the idea of people who are twenty years younger than you ress Fascinating, isn't it? Because I do think it's different now. I think the world is a lot more There's a lot less assumed. I think you go into life now with the world being available to you in terms of information. We used to talk to our parents, We used to talk to a few people around us and you saort follow a path blindly. And also with the blind idea that going to be able to grow, you're going to be able to get a better job,n more money, afford a house and be able to doal with that if you want to. We still had the choice to be able to do it. It was just a tougher social choice. But now I don't think it's the same. I think we train lots of young people. We see them come through our business they're very much more alive to all the different challenges that they've got in their lives. It just it's a different society So in a way, it's utterly unsurprising that the resents the members of it or the ones who've grown up with the differences compared to uss have arrived at different places, have arrived at different places I got just going to squze Andrew, thank you. I'm going to squeeze Yan in, but I've also got an unhinged headline that I want to share with you before. Mystery h is upon us so So Yan it is a squeeze. What do you want to say I'll and squeeze in, Jam. How are you doing? Oh' good mate? What's on your m Yeah, I've gott to say, it just makes me feel so sad. What we call this Just people's attitudes towards kids because I mean I'm on midsays And as far back as I could remember, I always had a desire to have children. I just wanted to have them. I used to think what it be like when I'm a dad I used to think, you know, we'll have a boy or a girl. And I've got three. and we started having kids when I was God, what twenty six. Right and And they talk about it. It's been all the things you wanted it to be. And you're worried So your sadness comes from the sense that you think people are depriving themselves of a great joy, a great beauty That's one element of it. But I mean, it only takes two generations of people not to have kids and there's no human beings left Yeah, I mean that's a fairly extreme example, but te technically I can't fault your logic. But I mean, that's one aspect of it, Yeah And I've heard these the benefits of not having kids from the previous call as such as you know, we've got dogs and we've gone harder we can get to nice restaurants. now that I've got kids, I mean it's clear that they've never felt the love and the joy that having them brings because I think once you feel that I mean, I've said this to my wife when we sit down and watch programs about all these kind of like palatial places in Dubai. If I went there on my own without my little family my little cr just felt empty Fair enough. No, I'm fair enough, I'm not going to argue with you because I think that's probably a lot closer to where I sit on this particular scale than than some people that we've spoken to, but dont I don't and I know you're not doing this, but I also don't think that they're doing something mean quotes wrong end quotes, or indeed that there's not going to be different types of joy in their life that are Profound, but just not the ones that come with parenthood. I think though, I mean your experience is notwithstanding. the idea that something quite profound has shifted in our society is pretty hard resist. Yeahan, take care. Mystery are almost upon us. This is just magnificent. Even by the standards of Alistair Heath, the king, the patron saint of unhinged headlines. Without Alistair Heath. of the telegraph Massive Brexit fan, massive Liz Truss fan, massive Boris Johnson fan, massive austerity fan. the top of head I can't remember whether he was a massive Donald Trump fan, but it'd weird if wasn't Even by his standards, this is an absolute humdinger. A defeatist Britain, he wr. Oh, hang on, sorry, Keith. Unhinged headline. A defeatist Britain is throwing away the last chance to save itself. That's not the headline. It's what I think is called a stand first. So unhinged stand first would sound a little bit rubbish. So we're staying with unhinged headlines The left is getting extreme He writes And the right is falling victim to Nihilism I'm just having a look at the news from the last couple of weeks and I'm the left is getting extreme Um, likeike this. That's far right Thugs in Belfast. orr this. That's farar right thugs in Southampton or if we were to cast our mind back even further, possibly this. And that is a little memory of the Farage riots in Southport after he decided to amplify Andrew Tates Hh I don't even know what to call it journalism. So there's Alist Heath in the teelegraph, describing the left as getting extreme at the moment, while the right is falling victim to nihilism. And I presume I've got no reason not to presume I presume that he is getting paid for that. And also while we're on the subject of the left, the left Um gettinget extreme. I've got some news for you. A reform UK couounillor who was suspended from the party over some hideous social media posts has being suspended, this after he was accused of making has been reinstated, sorry, this after he was accused of making a series of Islamophobic and anti Semitic posts on social media He urged protesters during the Farage riots back in twenty twenty four protestters who were throwing bricks at police defending a mosque Because of course, people like Farid and others had contributed to the idea that the offender in that case was a Muslim although he wasn't And of course, if he had been, it still wouldn't excuse in any way, shape or form, throwing bricks at police defending a mosque. But this chap tweeted, get rid of that filthy building, according to an article In the Times, he also accused quotes the Jews, according to the same article in the Times, of creating division, I quote, by forcing other races on our societies. That's very much the great replacement theory, which is technically best described as a load of old nonsense and he described immigrants coming to the UK as quote, breeding like rats He has been reinstated in the party, but don't forget, Alista Heath has told us the leftft is Getting Extreme This is Ben Roe whose seat on Plymouth City Council. he has resumed after being suspended. And the party subsequently and continues to claim that they have some of the strongest veting procedures in the country up in Snderland, U Glenn Gibbons, you'll remember him He was the one that said he couldn't believe how many Nigerians there were in the city and that they should all be melted down and used to fill in potholes. He has also been reinstated as a councselor G old Alistair Heath in the Daily Telegraphs, very concerned that the left is getting extreme. I think we need a bit of mystery out to cheer ourselves up, don't we? It's twelve o two This is LBC fromr Global, leading Britain's Conversation Mystery Hour with James O'Brien. Six minutes after twelve is the time you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC. Keith just told me something I didn't quite understand, but we'll discover what it means in the course of the next minute or so, I think N's not getting any quieter, Keith, Is that what you would say? What? Hello. It's time for Mister Hour, yourour weekly opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction not available anywhere else on your radio. This is in many ways the most enjoyable part of the week, notot always, but it's the most guaranteed enjoyable part of the week. can anybody hear me I can't I keep telling me not to shout on the radio. Why are you playing it so loud? Are you sulking because of the alarm?ust a bit of bantomate. It was a pathetic alarm, but, you know Itp of nothing, which is what I normally get. I suppose I should be grateful at least I gott andough. Anyway, I'll get to client, I' m school Of u Miss Chia, it's very funny and enjoyable and you learn lots of things. So someone rings in with a question, right? Oho three four five six zero six zero nine seven three and then someone else rings in with an answer. And somehow between those two polls the magic happens U If you make my favorite contribution of the week, you win a Mystery Hour game. There are two games now in the Mystery Hour stable One is a board game, that is the original Mystery hour, which is like a kind of thing that you would have on your coffee table and the whole family gathers around and you play it and enormous fun is had by all. And then there is the new Mystery hour game, the travel game That's in a tin And you can play it in a car, you can play it anywhere, you can play it on a train. You don't need a table to play it really. You just need You need to be able to see the cards. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. And it's yours. Full terms and conditions for that competition are LBCot co. UK. And the Mystery Hour game, you can find out more about the game itself at Mystery Hour. . co. uk. I think that covers it. I wasn't complaining about loud music like an old person. I was complaining that I couldn't hear C of some days it feels like everyone's ganging up on you, doesn't it? What do you mean, Keith is an icon, Sasha, please I wasn't complaining about the lack ake that off him. do you know, I'm going to start doing my own buttons Like Nick Abbott does. I'm never going to start doing don't laugh like that at me. I'm never going to start doing my own buttons. I couldn't hear myself think during that period, Klease. I'm all flustered and discombobulated as we try and get. I haven't even told people to ring in yet. I can't do anything if you don't ring in. o three four five. If I took over the buttons from Keith, we'd be off air by twelve o twelve eleven Stop it now. Seriously, you're not big and you're not clever. zero three four five sixzero six zero nine seven three is the number that you need to ask a question on mystery hour or when you have heard other people ask a question to which you know the answer, you ring in and provide the answers. Eleanor was away last week, so she probably doesn't know that it all went a little bit retro. It all went a little bit deja vu, by which I mean that I think every single question that was on the board had been asked before relatively recently, which is what happens if you haven't got any older longer serving members of the team in place because some of the questions are kind of obbvious Lauren suggests the producers are revolting. You're telling me, Lauren always have been always will be Um Obvious But anyway, let's see how we go on this week. I'll stop burbling and you can start asking and indeed answering questions. Ian's in hollow. Ian question or answer Question pase Jane. Carry on in cook a damn fine roast dinner and I use ordinary potatoes and sweet potatoes. Sweet potatoes with a roast. Hy You know mate. T it. No. No mate. I cut sweet potatoes last night, but we were having them with hot Anyway. hereere we go. I peel them and peel them and chop them and put them in a bowl of water before I put them on the pan. Yeah. And the ordinary potatoes sink and the sweep status flow I mean Is that an interesting question I think But I mean, it's a bit like saying the stone sinks and the And the wood doesn't. they're just different things. They might be coolotato. But are they both potatoes Well that's what I want to know Yes, is the short answer, I think to that. One's sweet and one's not sweet. Yeah, but we call things potatoes. We call things things that aren't actually things, don't we? What that potato potatoes. Do that noise again? Pine nut, for example, is not a nut, you see. so a sweet potato might not be a potato. is a sweet potato a tubber I thought that was a musical instrument. I play I suppose I asked for that, didn't I Um Just before you go Do Do you shape the sweet potatoes in the same way that you shape the roast potatoes? Yeah, abbsolutely. I've never done that. I've only ever done them I've only ever done them as chips. So I might have I might the only thing I'd roast with my spuds would be parsnips perhaps. You can do sweet potato mash as well. Now I've done that and I like a Swede mash as well, but you do so you have And do you cook them for the same amount of time? Are they not a bit solid They are a little bit softer, but they still go they're going the same pan same pan of boil and the same pan of roast Well, I never. Well yeah, you're on. I mean, there's all sorts of differences to be discussed, but we're particularly interested in the question of Sinking and floating. I'm sinking and floating. You're on. All right, Thankk you, Ian. twelve twelve is the time.ome breaking news for you, which will involve a genuine and proper and necessary interruption of Mystery A I'm being told that the Secretary of State for Defense John Healy. has just resigned I know no more about it than that, but as soon as I do, you will because we will take more information on that as soon as we have it and share it with you Sweet. twelve twelve is the time. James is in crew. James, I will hopefully interrupt you to find out more about the resignation of the defefense Secretary John Heley. but until that moment comes, questestion or answer Hello. Hello. It's actually James in Manchester now, but that's fine. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I can't believe you said you were in crew How can you cruise the fine place? You can never trust one again. This is just awful. This is fake news. This is what Donald Trump is talking about. You can't trust anybody anymore. Let me start again Right? S are you ready Yes, go ahead. Thank you. James is in Manchester. James, I may have to interrupt you because hopefully we're going gonna have a little bit more information on the resignation of Defense Secretary John Healy, which is breaking as we speak. but until that moment dawns James in Manchester, Deinitely not crew, near crew, but not in crew Question or answer, James. So yeah, so I myself think I quite like a card game, a flat jack, that kind of thing.. So my question would be how and perhaps more when was the standard pack of fifty two cards that we know today Has that come to be the standard? wasas it Oracle was a particular company. So that the full suit go at the base two, three, four, five, six or King Jack Queen King, how does that become standardized? I like that. That's a nice question. I think it might I mean because Tarot did it have something in Tarot? Tarot? Yeah originally. Because there's in Taro there's things like the night of cards. So there's all different things. So I presume you know we want what you're talking about the first time effectively that the modern instantly recognizable Dck of fifty two cards became a thing And how did it become the dominant one that, you know if that's what I mean.ing cards, we werere all thinking the same thing. Yes. So yeah, how was the four suits decided?y Why don't we have a cups suit? but what? Now well, you can't keep adding other questions like that. We just want to know where it started when and how. The time now is quarter past twelve. The cards and the sweet potatoes zero three four five sixz sixzero nine seven three is the number you need to answer either of those questions or indeed to ask A question of your own. I'm going to take a quick break when we come back more on the resignation of the Secretary. I mean, this is an interesting one. He's very much a starmer loyalist. It could be personal reasons that are in play. It's probably a little bit unseemly to speculate unduly. So we'll just sit tight and wait for Natasha Clark to join us after this with further details It's twelve sixteen. James in Brentford. James, question or answer. For a long time listen, first time caller, James. question please Why has the Secretary of State of Defense John Healey resigned I don't know, James, I'll find out for you. Natasha is in Licester Square, Natasha question or answer Qion fromom you. No question for me. But why has the Scretary of the Secretary state on resigned Because he doesn' doesn don't know how to play your game.'t how to play your game. He says that the DIP settlement, the defefense investment planl, which we're expecting the government to release any day now, he says that the money that the government has put forward for this is not enough to give our forces the resource it needs. He's just in the last couple of minutes submitted his resignation to the Prime Minister, He said this is a letter. I never expected to wr I do so with great regret and reluctance. He said we came into government basically facing these new eras of threats. We published a new defence, review a ten year vision to transform our armed forces. and as we have regularly discussed together, I was certain that that three percent GDP defence spending was going to rise by twenty thirty as we indeed had committed to, but he says your deffence invvestment plan financial settlement, I was first given this in full on Monday afternoon this week falls well short of what is required for defence and the country at this dangerous time. Pretty damning stuff, James. I'm trying to think of a precedent really where the funding of a department has been offered up as the reason for dearture by a departing Secretary of State and I mean we could add it to the list of Mysty our questions, but I can't currently think of an example of this very specific complaint. Yeah, I'm strugging to. I think I'm sure there have been secreties of state that have resigned over not being able to get the funding settlements that they want in the past. I'm sure there are examples of this. But this is what we call James know an honrable resignation, isn't it? You can't. Stmer is going to be absolutely gutted. Of course, he's going to be gutted. And this obviously puts a huge hammer blow to the plans that he's about to reveal in the next two weeks because his own defence secretary is saying We can't accept it. it's not going to be enough. And actually I was speaking to people within the Ministry of Defence, within the Treasury last night, James, trying to find out when this plan was coming and what it was looking like, whether it was going to be delivered on Fridays as we had potentially expected it to be. And they said to me that these talks are still ongoing, The idea that thirteen billion pounds for the Ministry of Defence in extra Defence spending for this plan been earmarked Now that is way, way short of what every single defense chief had said that they needed. Youll remember some of them wrote a letter to Seakistama last year where they said twenty eight billion pounds was needed to meet the shortfall in our defenses. So it does very much sound like John Heley feels like he's lost the argument here. He's not got enough money and he just absolutely can't accept the settlement that is on the table. which he first saw on Monday afternoon of this week, so' responded fairly complain about the extra support being backloaded when of course the issues are, as those military chiefs have explained urgent And the imperative to speed up readiness to fight is one of the reasons given In John Healey's letter, in the first two years of the new settlement, he points out it rises to just two point six eight percent of GDP in twenty thirty It will hit two point six. It will still be two point six percent next year. so a long, long, long way off the three percent. It was kind of pledged in the three point a fiveal percent, which is supposed to be in place by twenty thirty five Is this down to the treasury? I mean is this Yeah, for sure, James. This is all going to be down to how much Rachel Reeves believes that she can give the Ministry of Defence. And now I was told by people in government this week that they were looking for every single government department to make some cuts in order to fund this extra defence spending. So in order for that to happen, that essentially means that every department needs to say yes to that Hear in the newspapers today, that Ed Milliband, who we saw over the weekend that there'd been rumoud for cuts to the energy department. and he's apparently turned around and said to the Prime Minister that he won't accept those cuts. So potentially there is a lot more going on here than meets the eye. but it does sound like John Healy essentially feels like he's lost this battle with the treasury and that far far more is needed. He says there in that letter, you know what defence means. You made this argument powerfully in your speech at the Munich Security Conference without a defence investment plan that meets the moment in this way. I'm being forced to make decisions that would reduce the readiness of our forces and increase the risk to personnel on operations. could make the country less safe. So it sounds like this financial settlement is going to be way, way less than what he thinks is needed. But actually this is really on the head of the Pime Minister. He's the one that is in charge. He's got the ability to say to the treasury, I'm really sorry, we've got to find the money for this somewhere. It's got to mean cuts or tax rises or borrowing And it sounds like the Prime Mister, at least according to this letter from John Healy, is reluctant to do either of those three things. Ben Wallace resigned. Was that overfunding issues? I don't think it was, but I mean it may have been, but I think publicly he said that he sort of wanted to spend more time with his family and explore new opportunities. It's a fascinating on this yesterday, didn't off to PMQs because don't think there's many votes in it at the moment. And yet you move into the secretary, you move into the Ministry of Defence as a politician. And when you're of John Healley's stature or indeed Ben Wallace's in the previous administration, there'd be a whole bunch of jobs you could get, but they do we do seem to be living in an era. where the defense secretaries We really really come to believe that there is a dire need for more investment. and everybody outside the Ministry of Defense is still living by the political imperatives rather than the security imperatives and they don't see the point of moving money from somewhere where spending money is popular to somewhere where spending money is not so much unpopular but not perceived as urgently necessary. and Halley being the latest example I don't want to say gone native because thatow sometimes makes it feel like there's been a delusion involved. It's probably the best way to describe a politician who ends up being a heck of a lot closer to the people the professional members of the military than he is to the professional members of the government than he is to his fellow ministers of. Yeah. you know he spends all of his time meeting, you know, with defense chiefs and with, you know are boys and girls out there that are on the front line fighting these fights and doing these threats. And you know and actually you know I remember last sort of the last time that I spoke with Ben Wallace when he was in government about this and sort of, you know, he says that Every defense secretary essentially needs to go in to have this big fight with the treasury because every time they're going to be coming back and saying, Do you really need this money for this? Do you really need this money for that? And you know defence as It has recently been seen as this like security guarantee. it's a deterrence, right? You're spending lots of money, but you can't necessarily see the safety that you might keep as a country and what that actually looks like in terms of tangible results, which the treasury obviously don't really want to provide because they think it's not really worth it They can't see those results apart from the fact that there is no war. So is that really worth spending all of that money? But when you are the defefence sectary and you are so close to these personnel serving on the front line in this way, just the idea that he is being forced to make decisions that would reduce the readiness of the forces and increase the risk to personnel on operations, that's just a staggering thing for any defeense secretary to say Yeah. I mean I mean it is. and Thursday lunchtime, he first saw it Monday afternoon, presumably he would have been importuning the Prime Minister to change course or to change his tune or to order the treasury to find some more money and he has failed in those, which leavave you with little choice but It's not qu clear whether he's verbial. He's spoken to Kir Starmer or not about this, but you could imagine that he would have been on the phone to him trying to make the case and on the phone to the treasury trying to say, actually, if we can't get this throughree, I'm really sure that I can't support it. And know John Healy, like you said' three percent by twenty thirty. That That's all he wanted. It's simple to understand And he hasn't got that. Yes, But it's also about more than just the numbers of three percent. It's the money that they're spending on and where it's going. All of this defense investment plan is essentially what we're going to be spending money on for the next ten years in order to fulfill the commitments that Britain has already made within the current spending plans. So it is billions upon billions upon billions of pounds that the Treasury are having to find And the argument from the Treasury was that MOD has wasted a lot of money on projects in the past. and there's been countless examples within government countless reports done where they say, this hasn't been good enough. The treasury want to say we want more value for money for this. But I think you're right when you say that so many people don't feel like defense is their top priority. twenty percent of people do feel like it is, and the government haven't made the case about why we need to spend An extra twenty, twenty eight billion, fifty billion, or whatever it might be on defence. It's not exactly a secure position that Kir Starmer enjoys at the moment as Prime Minister. How many straws do you think this adds to the camel's back? Well this adds a really big one onto him. and you know the fact that the Prime Minister was I was speaking to him last week on a defence related visit where he said this is my number one priority This is going to have to be the priority above everything else in government. and yet John Healey doesn't feel like it is. So where we are at this precarious position that the Prime Minister is in at the moment, James, where every single thing could potentially blow him and knock him off course. This is an absolute hammer blow to Kir Starmer at a time where he's just about got back on his feet from the last whack that he got with the resignation of West Streeting a couple of weeks ago to lose cabinet ministers at this speed, when you are so desperately trying to cling ont to power and you are behind in the polls, every single potentially blow like this could be a knockout killer one. and we will obviously wait to see what the reaction is from John Hillley's resignation and what he chooses to say next and what other MPs choose to do next, but there is a chance that this Haston Pam departure Yes He's an ally of Starmer. I mean that's why it's particular he He's not one of the people in the cabinet under sufferance or in order to keep other sections of the party that aren't necessarily warm towards Starmer happy. This is very much a pocket appoint. Exactly. And actually, you know usually what happens when we get these resignation letters, James is that they come from number ten Downing Street. So there's a letter that's sent and there's a letter that's received. So the Prime Minister will write back to John Healley with a letter which we haven't got. John Healley put this out on social media of his own accord today. And actually the fact that we knew nothing about this and actually know, Agie Chambrery, O Colly was at a press conference with John Heedy yesterday and was asking about the defense plans. He was defending the defence plans. He was saying, you know I respect Parliament. I'm going to be outlining it to Parliament soon. And just hours later, you know this clearly is a last minute decision that he's just now made, and we don't even know whether Kistama may have received this resignation letter before it was published to the media Promotion for out K? Probably, yes. He's well regarded.en as a very, very good strong contender in this field. There's also Luke Pollard as well, the Armed Forces mininister that they could easily promote into this big job. But yes, Kis Starmer is going to have a difficult time now getting through this defence investment plan without his defence Scretary. I suppose the most positive thing you could say from Kis Dahmer's point of view John Heley is unlikely to cause trouble from the backbenches I think that's probably true. He's probably one of those people who, yes, you're probably right, don't think he's going to make any sort of scathing bindstorming interventions about know Kirirst Starma's leadership or anything like that Arguably he's already done the thing that's going to cause him the most damage by saying, Kist Aarmer, your plan today is going to put our armed forces at risk. And that I think is worth more than anything John Hillley could say about Kist Aahmer's leadership. Thank you very much, Nata and Leicester Square there with a brilliant answer to James in Brentford's question about why the Secretary of State for Defence has Just Rign Moring's been in touch, she says, Dear James' producer, please go back to MysteryHour after the half past twelve News. All right, Maureen, if you insist, but if we get a letter from Downy Street, Natasha, will you come back and join us?, Thankk you very much It's coming up to half past twelve. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC with an interrupted and truncated mystery which may be interrupted again in the event of any new details emerging with regard to this breaking news. And listen, it's profoundly significant, as Natasha just brilliantly explained This reaches into all corners of Kir Stama's government and all corners of Kirirst Stama's premiership and indeed his future. So any new developments on that will be in front of you in no time whatsoever. Breaking news. Secretary of State for Defense, almost out of nowhere. has R resigned, John Healey. Matt Hewitt has your headlines An awful lot of unhappiness with John Heley, not for resigning from the government, but for interfering with and indeed interrupting mystia and I make no apology for that, I'm afraid. It's a big, big, big story and we will return to it as and when any new details or developments emerge. But until then, we continue Questions on the board at the moment the origins of decks of cards and why do potatoes sink and sweet potatoes float That'd be good if John Healy rang in. He's got time on his hands now, perhaps I don't know which of those is best suited to his qualifications. A few of you are suggesting that Natasha Clarkke should have got a round of she should have got a round of applause actually, but I forgot to ask what her qualifications are I presumed it was a given, but you know, Myster hour is Mystery hour. She certainly doesn't get a ray ootor for just doing her job, but here you go, belatedly. Simon's in a career. Calimera. Simon. Ca, Calimara, James Cony Sullar. C Bsy Katy, Simara. Esy Katsy K Well, yeah after A listening to what's happening with John Neeley for fifteen minutes. Yes, you were on hold, for which I thank you. I hope we rang you back.ine That's fine.ope you're not on a trunk call. Question of answer I've got a question. Carry on. And I need to put it into context very quickly, right? you know, I live Icarea And off of Icarea is a small archipelago called Fni Corion, which is basically In Greek, it basically means the ovens because the place is so hot. Yes And historically it was also full of pirates. Oh rightight? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can look at ups fascinating, fascinating place. I've spent quite a lot of time there. But my question is actually about ducks. Oh yeah. I in England Um you know, ducks are basically herbivores that live in fresh water. But in Forney and in other places I've seen in Greece you get groups of ducks that live in the sea. Right Right? Yeah. And my question is this is, well, one, why do they live in the sea? And two, what do they eat? becausecause they're not carnivores. they don't eat fish A, what could they not eat seaweed Well, yeah, but they don't they don't kind of bob under. Do you know what I mean? They just sort of at Alough they normal they're like mallards No, they're not like malard They're kind of They might be special sea ducks. Well, have you ever heard of a special sea duck? I just did. Yeahah, there's some many in carea Not any career in four years. Oh, my b my bad, sorry. But yeah, I mean, but theyre they're not like mallards. So they're not ducks that normally live in freshwater. It's a different duck. It's a duck that lives in. Yeah, but they're definitely ducks and ducks, I know one hundred percent might be geese They might be geese They might be, it cross my mind. they might be, but I don't think so. I mean, have you ever seen this particular duck anywhere else Yeah, I've seen I've seen them in other places in Greece. D it? Um You know, and they I mean, they look, if it looks like a duck stop it Have you heard it quack? Have you heard it, quack I've heard I've heard them quack.. You know, Have you got downloaded this thing which's called Merlin? Have you downloaded an app called Merlin? No, what's that? It's brilliant. It's Cornell University in the United States of America. We're probably clashhing All right. Crash the website. now it's free. You download it U I use churpmatic as well, but I'm using Merlin now And you record the noise of the bird and it identifies it for you from an enormous database, or you take a picture of it and you put it through the app and it will tell you exactly what kind of duck it is. Is it free? Yes, it' free, mate. Marlin. Merlin from the app store and It will take and then may you may if we don't get an answer, it may be that that it will tell you precisely what species of ducket is And that will be halfway towards working out whats not it's not so much about the species because I mean, like we said, you know, a duck is a duck is a duck. Well it could maybe necessarily it might be that when you discover what it is, you learn that. Ohh yeah,s that's a saltwater duck Yeah, maybe maybe I don't know. I've never he done. Well, no, nor have I, but we were just thinking out loud, are't weate ' what we're doing? Anyway, I'm off for a sououslaky. Give me an answer to Vlackedia a hero or or will you go for the hero or will you go for the Svaki? I go I go for different ones on different days so sometimes you you go to the Svaki shop most days No, not every day. it not it's not very good for you, but no, I mean, they where I live up the road there's a really nice Tverna. They do a great gear all, but they also do brilliant kid in on. you know, pork, local pork And lots of the food that's grown here and provided here is completely organic, you know? There's a big thing about organic food inreas. It always has been there we're way ahead of the curve. We stayed at a place in Kore It was completely. Anyway, I digress. I don't know how to say enjoy your food. Howere do you say enjoy your food I don't know. I say I'd say Yeah no, you do. What's the what is it Cor? I can't remember. Never mind I wish you a safe journey there, so I'll say Calo Tax. I think you're coming over quite soon, aren't you? Not to I Korea, but yeah, I will be No no, not to Korea, but to Greece. I'll be in the region, I think a couple of weeks time, but obviously you're the quQueen. I keep I said your top secret Of course, but have a lovely time. I sh Well I will, when you know I will. It's impossible not to, he says, Jinxsing nothing. Simon, thank you. Sandra is in reading. Sandra, a question or answer Hello, James, it's a question. Carry on Okay, why the washer machines have glass windows so we can see the washing go round and aroundound is Totally irrelevant. It's notirrelevant. It's not so that you can see the washing go round and What's your for thing? Well, think about it I'm thinking I'm think harder Wha, there's no good reason. But what else can you say? Apart from clothes when you watch your washing machine Um Water? A. And how can you be water? How can you be one hundred percent certain that your washing machine has drained? without being able to see that your washing machine has drained Oh Answer the question How many rice Krispies are there in a box of rice Krispies, mininis that sorry. I got distracted. Answer the question, Sandra I don't know. What do you mean you don't know? How would you What do you mean you don't know? Answer the question, Sandra. How many rice Krispies are there in a box of rice Krispies? So all these posh people' got integrated washing machines. How do they know when it's drained All top loading washing machines topop loading doesn't matter, does it? Be if you open a top loading washing machine and it hasn't drained, you're going to flood your kitchen Okay, fair enough. Is that the only reason do you think Yeah And the integrated they tell you they tell you, they send a message to your phone. Yeah well I haven't got an integrated washing machine. I just made that up. But I mean, if they're that integrated, they probably send you a letter You get a telegram so then we're finished. put the whites on So that is the answer. That is the answer You think so. What do you mean you think so? I know so. It may be another reason for Well go on then I don't know Well, I do know. this is the reason Okay, you right, I'll take that, then to give yourself a random? You know I am, yeah. real one Yeah M of the metaphorical one I give myself every other minute of the show. Carry on, Sandra. If I'm wrong, someone will do a steward's inquiry, but let's face it I' not Victoria's in Dumfriys, Victoria a question or answer. Answer, hopefully. Carry on, Victoria. So it's a question about the sweet potato versus normal root potato. You don't want to share your thoughts on John Healey's resignation? I would like to sh my thoughts about the fact that I had to listen through the adverts. Well I'm sorry. That quighten them down. mutiny you think the advert all lowed, you should seeour is not on. No. Well right, let's get back to business. What is going on with the potatoes? So generally if something floats versus something sinks, it is always will be to do with density. But I know also for a fact that the sweet potato is a lot less dense than the white potato, right. So that is the reason why it floats versus sinking. There are other differences, biologically and so forth. They are related to one another in terms of how being the plants the same as potato is related to tomato and so forth, right So They are related. they're both tuberous plants just as you suggested. but the reason why one floats the other one sinks is because of the density. There we go.ess than half the density of the sweet potato compared to the white potato. Qifications So many. So I'm a biology teacher, but I teach physics and chemistry for the lower secondary school S one S two. and also I've got a masters in nutrition. so I know more about difference between sweet potatoes and white potatoes than you the question was the average person, would you ever cook sweet potatoes with a Sundaay roast Absolutely. What Yeah, really Right like round, normal shappe, potato shapes. Nutritionally there is not much difference. One's got a bit more protein, the other one's got a bit more fat, more free sugar, more starch with a roast, We'd like beef Aolutely's abolutely. Re In the same shape as a roast normal potato. Yes, but you would not pre you would not pal boil them. That's a difference. No, obviously. Yeah, because if you paralb boil them you would turn them into motush. Well, hope never. You live and learn, e? That's two things I've learned today. The seipes, carrots, all goes in the roast Now I know carrots go in a rose, but sweet potatoes as potatoes, not as vegetables, not in carrot shapes. Yeah absolutely. It's very, very nice. I like them. I don't dislike them a bit of paprika normally. I spice them well. I've learned two things today. One is that the Secretary of State for Defense, John Healley has resigned And the other is that people have sweet potatoes in their roast dinners. . Paprika tastes nicer than the just paprika. The what paprika? o Oh, I know that everyveryone knows that, Victoria, for goodness. Do you think we're phil qualifications you've told us have a round of applause? Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. answers, but I know you only have theerence you only allow one answer. That is absolutely right. I might have invited your views on the resignation of John Healey, but you didn't want to do that, and I quite understand. It's twelve forty four. Tony is in Pontlandand Northumberland. Did I say that right Ponaland, James. Ponealand. I won't hold it against you. Thank you very much. Qion or answer. It's a question, please, James. Carry on If you would just allow me to explain the inspiration for the question, course. Myself and my wife were round our good friends and she had made for us an apple crumble with apples from the garden, beautiful. blah blah blah. Halfway through the dessert, their daughter just happened to mention o, the apple tree is planted above bingo It was deceased family dog And that got me thinking and I actually mentioned it. doeses that mean I've got bits of bingo in my system now? So the response was, well I like to think that he has been brought back to the world through the apple tree. an apple crumble. They planted the tree quite young, did they? Yes. So they buried the dog and then they planted the tree. The plant of the tree is almost immediately, I think. Yes. Like a memorial instead of a headstone. Yeah It's producing fruit already And that was the first crop and we were honoured. we were honoured to to partake whichich brings me to my question, if you don't mind. Do we h parts of dead people existing in our bodies. humans. Yeah chemicals constantly there's a finite number of chemicals and they're constantly being recycled and reconstituted, arerenn't they? So it's not like you've got a bit of pour in you or a bit of toneet or something like that. But you might have some nitrogen in you that came from Bingo. I don't think you're going to have I mean, it depends what you mean by a bit of dog really. Well, I not in the dog to be quite honest. I was just thinking about the two humuman beings, ye. principles are the same. You're not going to have a bit of a person in you, but you're going have like ag you're not to have a Lego brick But you're going to have something that is used to make Lego bricks. Do you see what I mean I do see what you mean, but is that a fact then that we actually will have someone from the Roman period He will have a chemical in you that may also have been in a Roman. I think you've answered my question. I think I have. Well, I've suddenly feeling a bit less confident than I was a minute ago I mean, you must do, right Otherwise, where is it? Otherwise, where's the Roman gone? Where's the Roman gone if it's not coming back round again? I mean All right, I don't know who'd be qualified to answer that question If I haven't answered that already, I'm not going to take another round of applause Or should I? I think you have a little clap No, I don't know, I' better not. You're on. All right, o And was the apppple crumble nice? It was beautiful, but I'm not having anymore. Well, it makes you think, doesn't it? twelve for seven is the time. you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. If you're just joining us and you'reondering what this madness is The Secretary of State for D Fous John Heley has resigned. Nata Clark joined us just After half past twelve to explain the details, the full text of his letter makes it clear that he is Absolutely furious. he's not furious. He's just absolutely gutted for want of a slightly more grown up word that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have elected not to keep to the pledge to deliver three percent of GDP for defence in twenty thirty. as well it wasn't a pledge necessarily, but it's something that John Heillley has made it clear on several occasions that he feels to be necessary, as indeed do Um Defense chiefs both past and present We have worked to secure a defense investment plan that does two things. First, deal with the increasing operational demands on defense now and step up the SDR actions to meet the increasing threat. Second, set a clear path to meet the new NATO commitment that you did agree He spend three and a half percent of GDP in twenty thirty five, and he feels that movement towards that destination. is nowhere near idough twelve forty eight is the top Telve fifty one is the time. You're listening to James O'Brien on at LBC where we are cunningly and expertly riding two horses at the same time like a sort of cossack On the one side The Secretary of State for Defense has resigned, John Heley. I've given you the chapter in verse with Nasha Clark's help on why that is and on the other side, mystery are abbsolute friolity and silliness Somehow we have managed to assemble together the abilities and the team to ride both horses at the same time. So anything, but I think Downing Street realised the foolishness of interfering with Mstre, so they probably will wait until one o'clock before they issue their response to John Healley's resignation letter. The outgoing Secretary of State for Defense John Heeeley has hemorrhaged a lot of goodwill and admiration by interfering with Mriaa after announcing his resignation, shortly after quarter past eleven to or just before half past eleven today. So I suspect Sheila will have the response letter for you shortly because my information is that Downing Street know that you interfere with Mystery hour at your peril You think Kir Starmer's situation is perilous currently, you wait and see what happens to the fella if he starts messing about with mystery John Healley. Big mistake, mate. B, huge. Tony's in Romsy, Tony, question our answer It's an answer, James. Carry on, Tony. So firstly, what on earth is John Healley doing trying to stop a man in Greece from finding an answer to the water This is what they mean when they say politicians are completely out of touch with ordinary people. It' insane, isn't it? Right, You were right earlier do go on the sea. Yes. Now a sea do And the most common one that people will know about is the ey to up Of course And I would recommend anybody who's got Merlin or any other app. It's good, isn't it? Wh listice bringer to listen to the Iider duck sound And they sound surprised at everything. Oh I like that If you draw some false eyebrows on somebody, they always look startled, don't they? They do If you listen to an Iider duck, they sort of go, o H Ooh. always sound surprised, but they are beautiful birds and they eat littleust crustaceans and shrimps and gribblies and bits and bobs So they are taking their food out of the water. gettinging it here, Yeah They probably load them up in Iceland and they also come down to Scotland quite a lot. What about Wmaters But there'd be a sea duck in warmer Yeah they'd be doing the same sort of thing. I love that qualifications None. just love birds. Well there they go, That's your qualification. Do you love birds enough to hot foot it to Wales to see The Western Reeef hereron that's just arrived No, no, I'm not in that. I do where I live, we have The white tailed eagles, orpreays, marsh areriers And they're only a mile away from my house. And my garden is an absolute Paradise for birds. I got baby woodpeckers all over my windows at the moment, not hatches and sort of stuff Why is that? Just because you I mean what is it newew forest territory or new forest I live in the woodlands. Oh, how glorious. And do you leave fooda? I mean, have you worked to attract them in these kind of numbers? Oh yeah, yeah yeah and boxes and deer and everything in the garden. like world what you would call it really? I love it. But you're not one of the people who will be jumping in the car and driving to Wales to see this heron that has appeared. About three hundred ornithologists have arrived in the town of E Fororeid and Carnarvon No, no, because they cause actually quite a lot of harm because they give people a bad name and they park in people's drives and stuff. I mean, I love watching birds, but I don't need to leave your garden, do you? No, no they should come and see me. I don't need to come see that. That I like that. Iess Mohammed won't come to the mountain and the mountain won't come to Mohammed. And then a big it's a big wk for rare herons. There's one in Lincolnshire as well as a squacko hereron. Squacko hereron, yeah, a small one like a night heron. Tiny little thing, isn't it? It's gorgeous I'm only getting into it relatively recently. I saw some. Iving I am loving it. I don't quite it'd be hard to put into words what it is, but I think I'm a bit like you. I don't have the urge to collect. I wouldn't need to go and drive somewhere just to say I can tick it off. Do you know what I mean? I don't think them I used to when the girls were young we used to likeite books in the garden and That's nice. That'sice anyway, it's got a round of applause, Tony Yay Thank. Lovely stuff. loveovely stuff. Thank you. And Vance is in Regents Park, Vance question or answer Cwer, please. Carry on, Vans Okay, The dog buried underneath the apple tree. Is that a song? I don't know that one Okay, Eesssentially everything decays, okay when it dies. And therefore its molecules are distributed through the air, through the soil even up into a tree. But this is absolutely natural because it happens universally. It's part of this cycle of chemicals and molecules. And one statistician a few decades ago expressed this very sort of eloquently. He said, E one of us probably has about ten molecules of Beethoven in us. Wow. Oh I love that. So we'd have quite a lot of Roman then, probably. The average person in this country would have a bit of Roman knocking about B of bment? Yeah sure Maybe a bit of bodice here. Yes. And but molecules would be any element, really Absolutely Yes It could either be simple elements like nitrogen or carbon it might be compound elements, you know, but it's inevitable. So was I mean, I was right in my answer, but I didn't sound quite as clever as you do. What are your qualifications I was a biochemist. Oh, well there it is. Its I mean I don't know if this is quite an august a reference as your statistician with the Beethoven observation, but it is We're talking about the circle of life. Yes, indeed, indndeed, absolutely. A. Beautiful stuff. Vanance have a round of applause on me Thank you. I love that. I love that, Bitater. And there it is. So yes, Bing goes a dog. you will now Tony, who asked that question, will contain some molecules that were previously contained within Bingo the Dog via the medium of Apple Crumble. If you're just tuning in, don't worry Sheila's here Normal. What have we got molecules of? And I came in B eight You've probably got about ten Are you any good at? Can you play the piano? Badly. All right eight I think we're done Yes, we've gott to get on with the show. I've got a hand over to S. I'm going to give that S I don't know who I'm going to give the board game to. Should we give it to Natasha'clock? No, we can't give it to Natashalock. Elanor's shaking a head quite v. Let's give it to Ian, the sweet potato king That's it for me. The Secretary of State for Defence has resigned. We did solve the mystery of why, but Sheila will be providing more detail and analysis of that moment imminently. If you missed any of today's show you can listen back on our free Global Pler app or on the LVC app where you can also stay up to date with all the latest news and don't forget that World exclusive. of one of the songs that is going to appear on the pitiful fake desert island discs that Nigel Farage has done for the spectator, although I would be surprised if that was the only. outlet to pllum depth so low. You can listen to a range of podcasts, including James O'Brien Daily, The best bits from my LBC show every day. So do download the official LBC app for free from your app store now Coming up at four and LB, Simon Marks is in for Tom, but now it's time for Sheila Beethoven Twinkle fingers,. No the opposite. Thanks very much, James. This has been a global playler original production