The Failure of Centrist Politics

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Okay, one second if I make you bigger , there we go. So that's full screen. Okay, so now They like I don't know how I always think this, but like how we got man on the moon in like the sixties and yet this technology feels so unacquired Have you seen a TV show for all mankind No It's an amazing show on Apple but yeah in the six is that doom video conference link and you're like, have we not gotten? Yeah we've regressed, if anything I remember watching what was it called A youo I found? I remember watching it was like Apollo It was like the newer one. It weren't poolyphone, it was like a newer version of it. Okay. And I remember just being like, fuck me, they shouldn't have went to the moon. Like they shouldn't have been able to do it with the technologies they had It was like it was literally like they were actually steering the thing. It wasn't like Yeah, yeah. All right okay, I figured out I've got you here. So what I'll do then I'll I'll like just introduce for like a couple minutes and then I'll just give you a shout here. So might meet for now Tanta Asama Aisa Thanks for having me Jimy. ry it's o Okay, so I've muted myself Okay, I need to mute this. that work? yeah, okay mute for a second. I just need to mute so I don't hear the audio Other game meute. o. cool. All right, so let's go live stream. Oh shit, we're actually live. Fuck me, I'm so bad Dream verse They got the full All right, let's try. you didn't see notothing. You not saw notothing Um Yeah, I'm a professional YouTube streamer man and that was smooth and how we all doing All right, so let me just get my chat need to pop my chat out. God I am I need to learn I need to learn this Ies to pop out of the chat That's hilarious intro. That is brilliant. All. How we fucking doing? Let's go. pop out the chat. There we go. That's got to be the chat chat boxes in We're looking live Yes, How are we doing people? pressure pressure to perform How are we Zach knew with the thanks for having me J, he knew it. So heZ's a professional. Your boy is out here just trying. Take two. good thing this doesn't lie. There we go. How are we all doing? s? Big day This will be our first we've done one interview before with ordinary things, Josh But today We're going to be talking. this is like this is the real this is the big leagues now in the fucking big leagues boys So today we're going to be chatting with Zach Polanskiy of green fame So he's he's running to be the leader of the Green Party and he's done a big announcement lately. It's taken like' really good traction, people really excited about it. It feels like an actual leftist voice and someone who really kind of gets What's going on in the sort of I'm drinking water out of wine glass because it's Monday Um So yeah, he sounds like someone who really gets the kind of like leftist space online, but also is grounded in like, you know, real world actual politics as well. So it's going to be really cool. I'm really excited to chat to him And I hope you' all doing well. Jll just give it a few seconds Yeah ments So we'll switch over to this little thing this window here. Bow. I'll wait in anyim you you Pas go All right, that's un mute. asked to unm mute go I think you muted yourself. there go. How you doing, man? on, I'm good. That was seamless. It was all good. Yeah, you're really dealing with professionals when you're in the YouTube space isach,. How you doing, o manan? you' good Now all good. I love that like what your viewers probably don't know is I've been asking to come on this stream like three or four times and you kept being like, we'll find a date, we'll find a date. And I kept seeing clips of you be like the green party aren't not angry enough. And I was like, I'm getting angry with Jin. I to That was it was all part of my plan is I was trying to rile you up so you come out fuming It worked at one point you were like, he's too nice. And I think you were talking about Adrian and I was like, I don't think Jimmy even knows the person he's talking about, which is our problem, not yours. I'm not coming on your show and blaming you we've got to get out there, but I'm pretty sure we'd never spoken. Yeah, yeah. at the beginning, I thought I think so there was a clip I posted the other day, which was actually from like weeks ago. So it was before you'd announnce and I thought you were at the time I thought you were the leader. That's how bad I would say my knowledge of o yeah, maybe Cs of greens at the time was is because you had been more of a public face. like when I'd think greens, all the only name that would come to mind other than Caroline Lucas was you. So that's good on your behalf, but for the Greens, I suppose they haven't like worked on that themselves. It's amazing. I can't tell you the amount times I've been a rally and someone's like gone and that's the leader of the Green party Z Pansky. it screws the rally because before hyping people up I've got to like do a bit of like, I'm not actually the leader, and'm the deputy leader, but you know, thanks for promotion. But anyway one of time now hopefully I won't have to say that anymore Yeah, yeah. So Romy Fur at the moment, they have two people. How did that happen? How did they decide on that? Why is that two people? Yeah. So we always have a team of in the Green Pie. You can have two co leaders and you can have a deputy leader and everyone's mixed genders. So Or what you can have, and we've had in the past under Caroline Lucas and Natalie Bennett is one leader and two deputies. I'm obviously going to say this, but I think that's a much better model because you, streamers, the press, everyone knows who the leader of the movement is and that's the person who speaks for the movement, who talks about people's issues, who is like the clear communicator for what the Green Party is doing right now And the two deputies are the people who support that and they kind of go around the country doing a lot of the work I've been doing in the last couple of years, which is essentially like Making people know what the green party is because the biggest thing,, I always start with this. People always know the green party you care about trees rivers, polar bears and I care about all of those when I've notock come on your stream to like slate trees and polar bears But also like there's no environmental justice without social justice. and what do I mean by that I mean, like if people are worrying about putting food on the table, worrying about heating the homes, how they're going to get to work if they've even got a job then they cannot start caring about the climate crisis because they care about the immediate things in front of them. So what I've always been looking to do with the Green Party is make it clear to people The one we've got to deal with those immediate material conditions is it's called, so basically money And to, link how the climate crisis is going to screw those pooreous people over more than anything else. And it's the same billionaires causing the climate crisis. So no matter what angle you're coming from, this is about ninety nine percent, all of us against a very small group of people who are destroying the planet, destroying our communities and destroying both the working class and independent shops peopleeople running business, you know, that kind of group as well. But if we come all together and build a movement That's how we turn our country around. Yeah, it's funny, like I don't know how we're you are what I do. I think because I feel like you've seen one or two of my videos in the past and that And I obviously like the thing that I guess people know is that I came from the right. And when I was on the right, I was never I was never like anti climate like cl because it wasn't a big talking point on the right back then. it was kind of like just this other issue that no one's really talking about. I was never I never had too big of a thought about it. But when I was sort of starting to move over to the left, One of the things that really changed my mind was the fact that the economic argument of it, the economic argument to move toward green and the sovereignty argument of it. and This is the sort of thing I try and push is like I kind of get what makes people lean to the right. So like what you're saying is correct. It's like sort of seeing it from there is the core argument of like this is just what we should be doing in terms of the planet, but then it's been out to sell it to people. and Any good salesman knows that youve got to try and like make extra reasons for people to buy in. So not only is it going to change your life, but it's also going to do this and this and this and this. And so it's like that's part of his Bringing more buy in and I think basing it in like like material Economic thing. That's what I'm hearing from you, which I like personally yeah This episode is brought to you by Street Easy. 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Know your sleep score with Apple Watch iPhone eleven or later required Yeah, I guess I also want to say, yes, I do know your stuff, and I'm not saying that's a blow smoke out of themum. Like you've done some amazing videos ones on immigration, particularly like just In true documentary style, but quick documentary, just like accessible stories about what's going on in our time is what we need so much more of and want to see the Green Party doing that kind of work first Here's a story that you'll pop off. This is why you're being lied to. this is the facts but told in a way that grabs people And I also on my cycle to get back to just listen to your downstream with Ashtaka. and Id just recommend anyone listenens to it because it's really good. and true story but of anyone who's ever interviewed me and I've like gone against some like big heavy hitters in terms of interviewers, I've never been more nervous than when Ashhakar interviewed me because she is smart and she's And as a politician, when someone's you like quite disarming because you're trying to do the kind of the story and the facts and she's making you laugh, but you're like o,'m not quite sure if I can laugh at that. Butyway, you totally he It was a really, really good conversation. Yeah, it was funny like Gary recommended me doing it like He said that she's actually quite into very similar things. I mean, that's why the whole conversation probably pissed off half the audience, but it was just about raping the. I was so yeah, it was impressive But I' say it's cool that you're very in touch with like the online creators, the online space and that So I wait to kind of before we go into maybe like specific questions or that policy what you stand for et. But I'd be really curious to hear your journey into politics and how it began. I even go back to when you was younger in that, but how you got into it Yeah, so when I was younger and when I'm talking younger, I'm talking like even my twenties, if you'd said to me who was the leader of the opposition, I' just wouldn't have known. like I had no interest whatsoever. And when I got into politics, I was a bit ashamed of that. I was a bit like, does it like damage my credibility as a politician that I'm quite new to politics But I very like a while ago learn that's most people's experience. like unless you come from a political family or a wealthy family where you are brought up to know this is your like entitlement or this is your stake. you're going to go into politics, you're going to go into house of Lords, whatever it might be Most people just don't really engage with politics. The only thing they might see is Prime Minister'sQuion time and see two people screaming at each other and just be like,' that's you know, I' got enough going on in my life without doing that. And But what I was was a there actor. So when I moved to London, I was working about like literally four or five jobs and You said something on Ashy's show that like really resonated with me when I listened to it, which is I'm definitely not working class and I'm not come here to pretend I am. And also I've got the security net of like banker Mum and Dad. But at the same time, when I moved to I was on my own as an actor And I wasn't asking them for anything. So like for my twenties and my thirties, I was walking places because I couldn't afford the bus ' like there was free food at Sash University and I used to like go get the free food before I was going to like an audition or something like that. So kind of lived that life where you're going M How do I get to the end of the week and how do I plan things? So it's the cheapest way possible and maybe I'm borrow money from that mate and I've got to pay that mate back and doing all of that. you and I go Yeah, yeah yeah. It's so different. L it is different if you know that like if you were homeless, there's someone you can call and I definitely was not in that place But it was a place where anyway I was struggling. But while inherently being like in theater and acting it's like such anable, unstable career anyway. so you got to experience that instability of like and it's cool. I really appreciate people who I one not go into something that's not really like an obvious route or it's got a very clear obvious This will lead to this job which will pay you this much. L acting is like it's a gamble inn' it? al gamble. L like people say to me now as a politician are that must be unstable and I'm like it's so much more stable than being an actor when like you might have a job for a day. Like if you're I used to do a lot of promo as well, which is an acting thoseaz where people who stop you in the street Iike was a charity fundraiser for a while Th I was doing like hanging out free yogurts that say you do every job. But people still go to me now, you know, being a politician must be hard or goingang on TV's hard. I'm like no, when was working in a bar That was hard. When I was working as a waiter and you have to remember five people's orders and when you don't get over, the person talks to you like shit and you have to stand there and smile Like that is hard Answering questions, not so hard. like you know, it's long days, but not as hard as when I was doing real jobs and inved commers So the main job I was doing was working doing something called Theatreeppressed This is where you work with like community groups who are oppressed. So I was working with homeless people, migrant workers, young renters who were getting facing eviction And you work with the people to do what's called rehearsing revolution. so you like role play out scenes where you play the person who's oppressing them and they demonstrate what they would say. and then the other people in that group go, mayaybe you could try saying this, maybe you could try doing this. And you just keep going over and over and over again until when they're next in that situation, they feel empowered to go, You know what? I'm ready for this situation. I know my facts, I'm ready to tell a story I can stand there and speak and like It's going to be clear and it's going to be empowered. They did that for years and love it and I don't regret it and shout out to the people who are still doing that work. There's an amazing group called cardboard Citizens, who still work with homeless people, particularly in London but around the country to kind of help them to get through tricky situations. but also you kind of go This is kind of gaslighting people because If you get people to speak really clearly and they're really powerful If the system is so like and stacked against them, like system says no, computer says no, wealth and power is going to say no I can't do anything about it. And like if they're homeless or well, it's a little bit with Gary. Like when he first came on the scene, you saw people try and dismiss him because he had a working class accent. And he doesn't necessarily carry himself in the way that like TV punzits carry themselves But it's a testament to how powerful a speaker he is. He overcame that and got through anyway But for most people they can't do that. They just get shot down or they just get dismissed. So that's one It's sort of like it's like what we talk about when a lot of us talk about sort of the right and how it courts young men. and self help stuff, which is a lot of like us that's where we kind of came through in my channel. I notice it's a run in theme It's like it's a liberal attitude where you sort of think that individual decisions and you know, if you're really strong good character you can get through. and it can incrementally benefit your life to some degree. Maybe it gives you a two percent buff. if it's like a video game, it gives you a little two percent advantage or something. But in reality the weight of the whole system is so stacked against you that it's like handing out life vests on the Titanic. It might help a couple people, but the ship's still fucking sinking. And that was like the thing that clicked in my head was like, It's great. if I tell people go work hard fantastic, but it's not going to change anything. It might change one or two people's lives. But there's a more yeah, when you start looking into I guess more leftist politics, there's a more u Collective empowerment kind of message there And I'd say that Yeah, I probably other lessons too. I don't know what your thoughts about it are, but like Putting aside that it was the most amazing likeake camera work, for the fact it was shot in one one take was just phenomenal But Kir Steam's reaction to it to like have a round table with the makers of it and felt so individualistic as opposed to going, Okay, let's look structurally what the problem is here. I watched that with my misses and I was like what annoys me about this is because it's like when you watch it as a thing, it's its own thing. It's great, but then it's the way culture interacts with it And I was like, if they come away with it and they go The conclusion to me was like the schools are underfunded. There's not enough teachers there and the parents are too stressed with their work in order to have enough connection with their children. If they approach that and actually funded or helped towards Solving that. greatreat, but it isn't. It's like, Oh, we need to, I don't know, teach people about Andrew Tate. And it's like you're looking at it upside down one hundred percent. And I think That's why what you're doing is important too, I think. You know, I've just told that story about not being involved in politics to running leader of the Green Party. And I think this is a similar story too, which is why I think you're resonating, which is you come from one place, you learn your experience and you end up in another place. And I think partarticularly on the left, we've really got stop finding traitors as then like anything that anyone says, people are always looking to like shoot them down or find a reason why they're separate to them. I'm not saying we have to agree with everyone's views. I'm not saying we have to be under one tent and also come by are. but I think we need to recognize like I'm up for Kbar sometimes, but I think the real threat are multi millionires and billionires and it's for politicians who are taking money from them to carry out their bidding that have been bought and paid for And I think when we turn on each other, I'm talking left very broadly here we are missing the real problem here. And yes, that's reform, but also right now it's Kar Stara because actually talkal about angry. Kir Starmer's comments today on migration. I just pull up an image actually that like He resonates so much with what Enoch Powell said about ivers of blood. This man was an outright fascist Ker Starman knew exactly what those words were saying. and he didn't even have like audacity or confidence to wear it on his chest. This was just like a little whisper, just a little nod to the fascist to say, yeah, don't worry him on your team In the same way like Elon Musk did that swastika thing, but no one they didn't even have like a Kutzur as would say in the Jewish religion to kind of that and go, yeah, that that represents us But instead it was like a little nod to it. and's that's what Kir Star was doing today. a little nod to fascism to just say, Oh, don't worry guys, you I' got this. And it's so like when you read all of the comments of I just cannot understand them. Like whenever you read any of Starmer's posts and all of the comments All right wingers. They're all like, why do you not support remigrate I'm not going to call it remigration. I want to play into that shit. Why you not support mass deportations of all migrants? And it's like you can't win you cannot win until you're rounding them up into camps. You're not going to win with them lot. likeike I don't know why they're trying to caught that It's so and all they're doing is literally putting people like me off. I gave Labor like a good amount of like Gener, you know, I tried to be generous to them for a while And like all they've done is lose like people like me, I'm gone. like It's ridiculous. I don't know Andm for sure. And I guess maybe this is a conversation we can get into because I think without doubt, we definitely agree on it ecomics and that's got to be up the front. we've got to be talking about inequality. Again, Gary's got it right, tax wealth not work, just repeating that message But then sometimes what people hear from me is that is that, you know, all the social stuff, I want to drop But actually I think if we drop it, and I'm not saying you want to do that either. but I think we totally give the ground to the right and actually there's two ways you can go here. You can try and do what Labour are doing if I'm generous to them, which is they believe in their hearts and social justice, but they're like, we're just not going to talk about it. We're going to wear the costume of that orr you just go, I'm going to be unapologetically pro migration. I'm going to be unapologetically anti racist. But what I'm going to do with that is recognize if I just say that But don' s about the economics, everyone's going to fall flat on their face and things are going to get worse. What we need to do is be so much better telling that story about social justice, about telling that story about migrants. But they are not the problem here. The problem here is austerity, the problem here is inequality, and the problem here is politicians that are outright lying to you to place the blame on migrants. And I think that's a tougher askk. It would be much easier to go, you know what I'm just going to throw them to the lines. I'm just going to focus on inequality. But left wing politics for me, if nothing else, is about compassion. It's about solidarity and it's about community. And I get the need for anger. and I think there is a lot of space to connect with people's anger because if you don't do that first, you just lose people, you just look like a hippie, you just look too hopeful. But I think if you just stay in anger, you're losing the community, you're losing the hope. And so it's a really tricky tightrope of you've got to feel the anger, but then as soon as you're from anger, you've got to feel the love towards those communities And it' way of saying those communities are not the people causing your problems. The people causing your problems with the politicians in power who are lying to you. one hundred percent. Yeah, like when it comes to the sort progressive stuff, this is what I was talking about while I tweeted the other day What I found works is just not using certain type of or just saying it in like a really straight way U like I've been able to make my mates who are quite right wing sort of get why feminism is like, obviously there needs to be some form of like towards the women. like even just saying it like sometimes, I know it sounds really weird, because a lot of these terms just get loaded with political like When I was on the right, if I heard the word feminism, turn off, just the word. If you say like man, women have it fucked. like have you not noticed how for the same jobs, they get paid less and then blahah blah. If you say it like that, people hear it better, but it's because we've become so ideologically separated into camps that even just types of words and types of jog and this was the point I was trying to make is because I'm really like I'm very much for a lot of these social causes. I just think it's the you can instantly lose some it, even if on a term like transphobe, right? I say Why are we being shitty to trans people? why And it's just because the word transphobe makes me instantly, if I was on the right, it makes me think of like, I don't know Owen Jones being laughed at by some Farge type person, right? And it's just a strange thing around language how they've cooopted certain terms and added a baggage to it that need't exist. and sometimes just using really plain English to explain the exact same thing seems to work I don't know I'm fifty fifty with you, which is weak. a bit I definitely agree like no doubt, we've got to watch our language, we've got to communicate and depending on your audience You want to use them as simplest terms as possible without dunning down or without like making people feel like you're talking down to them At the same time though, that's for like the caveat for me It depends who your audience is. and I think like if your audience are ready in your terms and that's a shortcut to having a deeper conversation to get in there quicker. and sometimes to be frank to signaling to a certain group of people by using this phrase, I'm in your group, I get the things that you care about or I'm signaling that. And I think that is also important. So I think it really really does depend. I think the conversation we had was around Joe I don't know politics, Joe's audience, but I don't imagine it gets much more middle class and much more like highly politically engaged. than politics so and And like sometimes, you know, the other time I've tuned in, have' been like, T not be read about Pulseics. I'm gonna leave that one there. Yeah, yeah. No I like them lot. I like them a lot. but I get what you're saying yeah it's more of a middle class probably, perhaps academic, you know, I don't know completely. And that was to be honest, that's what put me off listening to politics show for quite a long time. And then a lot of these things, you need to like create the buy in. So like Once I started to get more grounded in leftist politics, I'm now open to that because it's like my door. I always compare it to. why I can enjoy So there's a guy sorry to go on Master Tandum, but there's a guy called Somemore News who is like this American creator, It's like a group of them and they do these free hour like debunks of Jordan Peterson. And I sent it to my very right wing mate about climate change and he had to turn it off in ten minutes because the tone was so like passive aggressive I really like it because I buy in now. and I always compare it to like music, how I used to really hate Dub step until I heard one scrillic song that made sense to me and then it made the genre make sense. So I don't know if if you get one Yeah any But u I guess The main thing I think I want to say with this is like it's often the most middle class like people who say to me, Ohh, I join the Green party but like you're not working class enough or you're not diverse enough. and I'm like If you went around the country as I do all the time, I met our counselors. We have like counillilors in the most working class communities who are really proud of being working class. They talk about it all the time Lots of diversity in the partarty and actually it's not the working class people who are saying to me the partarty needs to be more working class. They're gun Good job Keep it up. let's keep growing. And actually it's often that people who aren't working class who go, o no, no, no, it's you know, the party need to be more working class. And I'm just like Let the people from that community decide for themselves what they need. and what they want from the party? Is that me saying I don't want the party to be more working class? No not at all. L we need to grow and we need to be more working class. I definitely accept that and totally take it on But I just think the criticisms sometimes come from quarters or places that aren't there. And then the second thing is I'm taking your point as well about language is the other thing that You know, I never wantan to be I'm an activist, you know, I own that in my heart But I am also a politician, I'm a politician that wants to win power and I want to see a green government one day. And that's balanced too, because sometimes you can go on something and be angry and you will feel good and your base audience will feel good, but actually you haven't won the argument. You haven't changed minds, you haven't moved people from right anywhere else And so I think there's a lot to be said for how do we appear and how do we have these discussions where people feel like they're not being lectured at or shouted at But actually we're going, this space is open for you too. Everyone's welcome in it because actually what I'm not looking for is traitors, I'm looking for comfts. Yeah, that's a very good point because Britain is very like I did when I did the Navara thing, a lot of the comments are people sort of like I add a few comments to talk about my accent And they feel like my accents's put on, right? And me I had a little chat with my m about it and we came away with it. like actually people don't understand how diverse, Britain is in a weird way where like There's a good section of like I would call them in between a kids who like kids who grew up, I don't know Maybe their parents had a house, they did all right. but then they got into smoking weed. they started hanging out with like, you know, skater kids. they started So our accents have become shaped by the different backgrounds we had, right? whichich is the kind of dream that we're men to follow of like the multicultural dream kind of thing. And it's like I a lot of people just like me got really into grime, got really into like different cultures, the sharing of culture. And then I found it quite ironic there's leftists that are sort of like, he sounds like he's putting on a multicultural London accent. I'm like, No, there are lots of people like me who are sort of middle class, but like hung out with people from different backgrounds. and we kind of developed a weird combination of accents as we've growing up. And I think what you're saying is like, whichich is right as a politician You should really be thinking to cater to each audience because I'm looking at the world through how me and my mates speak. But you're also trying to communicate youressage, I suppose what you're saying to wids u to a wide, you know audience of different people that I don't even interact with, so I think you're that's so spot on. And even when I'm just talking to you now, I can hear my Manchester action coming out. I'm from Manchester, It's not put on. But if I'm talking to Laura Kounonsberg or like Kay Berley on Sky News, I can tell you my Manchester action iss not coming out. It's not again put on, but my brain goes This is like politician accent now and like Is that a problem? Sone can legitimately say you shouldn't be shapeshifting, but it's not the things I'm saying that are different, it's not my values that are different. It's just the way I'm presenting them slightly That's a very important thing. I had it when I got a job in an office, I noticed I couldn't speak how I speak with my mates So like you have to shapeshift to put it like that. They quit code switch in, but yeah That's probably better than shake. But yeah, it's interesting. So I wantaed to ask, Ive got a few like written questions in it. Um he. Yeah, ye. so these were people just like in the comments like asking questions. So I wanted to ask, I think you're already doing quite a good job, but I suppose you're doing You're doing a lot in the online space. So the question is how do you think that the greens with a real populist left message can cut through in mainstream media into the wider sort of consciousness? What Do you think there's stunts, debates? like do you have an approach to that Yeahes, so it's the number one question that I think we're facing because you can like In fact, I think I've heard you say this, Jimmy. L we've got good policies, we've got good people, but we're not cutting through. And so that's exactly why I'm running for leader because I don't want to see a party just kind of slowly creep up while we see fascism rise much quicker and And when I say fascism, you know what I mean by fascism. I don't need to go there. But So we need to cut through. and the way to do that, I think is by being bolden on messaging. I think I'm demonstrating this already on Monday, I announced my video. It's been seen one point three million times and seventeen national interviews so on paper and national media in just for last week. That's normally what the party might get like in a quieter period in like a month if we're lucky. So I think that already demonstrates, if you're really clear about what you stand for and really clear about what you stand against you will get platforms more on mainstream media because people go, ah, I know that guy. He's the person who does that. I've just been asked to do the Jeremy Vine showow. You know they have talking heads in the morning. I think they didn't quite know where to put the green party but now I've gone. we are an unapologetically left party. They've gone, okay, talking head, let's go. So I can already see how that's shifting Second though, I want to create a more diversity of voices and this is my pitch to you, Jimmy. C say you're not sure about standing for the Green Party or any party to be fair because you're a strategist. But actually I guess there's a place I disagree with Ash that like I don't think strategists and F people need to be different people. I just think again, it's for code switching. I don't think you're a strategist when you're speaking you do that behind the scenes. And when you're speaking, your strategy becomes how you speak. And I think some people can do that and I reckon you'd be able to if you wanted to. But anyway, this isn't just about you, it's about I want to see younger, more working class voices, more diverse voices speaking for the Green Party. And this is exactly why, you know The other people running are two MPs and their're kind of pitch today was we need an MP and a leadership team. And I'm like, that's exactly the opposite of what we need Wh we needed to be focusing on our grassroots on our communities. People hate politicians, peopleeople hate Westminster and I'm not slating off RMPs now they're doing a really, really solid job, But let's not try mimicking what other politicians are like. Let's not obsessing about Westminster because that's the thing people are rejecting. The thing people love like grassroots leaders, scout leaders, people running food banks, people running sports clubs, football clubs. like those are the people that I want to see stepping up Not just because it's the right thing to do and that's how we change communities, but also to answer this question. I think those people are able to communicate in media better than anyone else. I mean, Mick Lynch is often the person used. I've got mixed feelings about Mc Lynch so I don't want to be like dishonest. He's an incredible communicator but when pushcs came to shove He endorsed Kistama even when Kirama was pushing a genocide in Israel or enabling a genocide in Israel. I realize decisions are complicated for people, so I've not come on here to come for Mit Lynch. but I'm always cautious when we go straight to Mit Lynch because I'm like actually when it really mattered, he didn't make the right decision. But that doesn't take away from you, he's an amazing communicator and I can see why he was like rither getting aour government or a conservative governments or going to back labour We gott toa get out that mindset. That's a historical mindset and it's the kind of mindset that means that two old parties have been taking the piss for decades and we willll continue to do so. Yeah funny if you really think about it, like you just know we've been on the left, I think Umin and Ain over this idea that potentially maybe we could vote for maybe a different partie. like if we do this guy over here and maybe and we've been like, but could it work because it split the And all of a sudden the write just went it did it. It's like it's kind of annoying. I read a book the other day. Who was it? I think it's Slavage. I can never say it's down there But like he was talking Yeah, he was talking about like how the right has taken everything from us. He was like, they took January sick from us. He was like the image in like the young, you know, like the real radical lesbist like he was being a bit facetious. but he was like, You know, the imag is that we're men to store the capapitol, but the fucking january sixth was the right. And it's like, yeah, sometimes we just need to fuck do the thing, you know, rather than thinking Um andar and I'm sort of starting to lean away from this just support labour no matter what kind of attitude Oh man, I didn't even know you were thinking that. Let's talk about that in a second. but the right they're so good at telling stories. And it's not that the left can't tell stories. I think we're better storytellers. And I think again, Jimmy, you're an example of this with the stuff you're making But what is also true is if you're on the right, you've had wealth, you've had privilege or used to be obviously they're changing that now. they've realizeed they've got get bigger demographics. But the people who own that capital who own The ability to be able to create video content, to create stories, to have their own TV channel, GB News Light with propaganda twenty four seven. That's what we're up against. Now we can complain about that and I think lots of us do, but actually complaining isn't going to change it. What we've got to do is go, everything is stacked against us. Everything is more difficult for us. That polics on mode We're playing on close to impossible mode, but it's not impossible. It's only impossible if we fail. and actually the thing we've got to do is make it possible. And we do that by turning up, showing up, We've got people power much more than they have and keep growing. I didn't know you're still thinking about voting for the Labour Party, man. They've cut winter fuel payments. they have kept the two child benefit lap They are still committing a genocide in Israel. Kama is anti migrant. They won't support a change in the voting system. So they say things like, oh other parties are okay, but you know and the first paster post if you don't want Nigel Fara, you're going to have Kirstama. No piss off with that. L you cannot keep reinforcing the same broken system and tell people they can't vote differently. And until people move and I'm really talking about labour MPs here, like people like Zara Sultana, who I have so much respect for to be fair I don't think she respects Labour Party anymore either B example. Clive Lewis, someone who's still in the Labour Party on the left but actually he helps the Labour Party because when they're doing the worst things they're able to go, Ohh look, we've got these nice left wing MP's We're not that bad And actually that then becomes complicity. you're effectively giving the argument to not allow the left to build And so yeah, anyone who has a platform who is still supporting labor, we could argue that out all day, but I think that it feels like, yeah, supporting labor at this point, it's like kind of almost evident that it is shifting the country to the right. So like you voted for Starmart in order to avoid a reform or avoid a conservative and like today come out with this kind of talk, which is, as you say, sort of Enoch Powlely being strangers in your own country and shit. It's like Bph, we our thought pattern at the time was we're trying to just at least avoid what he's doing now, but you know, from reform or conservative and he's doing it anyway. So it's got me buried this This whatever the word, is this in front trth And while I'm running at you, let's talk about Davy. So credation side. I know the obvious thing to say is that know he was involved with austerity in the coalition years. I want to be straight with you during the coalition years, like some of the austerity measures, I wasn't against because I thought that you know this argument about the household credit, like your household budget is like a credit card. That's a really compelling argument for people and that speaks to everything we're talking about. If you tell a powerful story it sounds true, peoplee start to believe it. It's not until I saw Natalie Bennett on the TV debate, She she used to be the Green Party leader. She was talking about refugees in Syria, then Caroline Lucas speaking really powerfully about inequality. that I started to listen to other voices and was like this austerity thing is the worst possible thing you could ever imagine So I'm there now and I've been there for like nearly eight years now. so it's not like a new thing to me. But I don't blame anyone who kind of looks at it David and goes, Oh you know, he seems to be saying sensful things Have a look when Gary Stehvenson was onQuion time, Daisy Cooper, my peer, so deeputy leader of the Lib Dems was sat next to him on questuestion time. She was so uncomfortable about the idea of a wealth tax. She just did not know what to do when Gary was talking. She was like, I'm in shot. I don't want to nod, even though I know some people will agree, but actually I can't nod because what that is going to do is put off all the wealthy backers around the country The lib Dems and in particular at Davavey is what's called an orange book liberal. That's just like the code. basically means he believes in free market He believes in wealth building, he believes in trickle down economics. He thinks if you destroy community, if you break things down, but privatise it, ultimately, that is going to push money from public money to private capital, which is the number one thing driving inequality. So please man, like I could almost deal with that Imost deal with the liking care Nama more than that Davy, but ye, as a person to be clear, the strap would be this is like where I'm s is like I have a platform, I have some influence. I want to try and push people away and the strap would be to do a mass sign up and basically coup the party. This This has been like all the talk behind us is what is the most electorally possible avenue of us getting anything close to tax of the rich and it would be like ultimately it'd be sort of what momentum did to labour and obviously that That went how it went, but, you know so's that's more the logic. It's like just sort of reading. The opportunity, what's the cards in front and just seeing, is there a vessel in which we could just take over a pi? I understand on the lib DM side that isn't to be an easy fit I think you're tellt you right, momentum analogy is good because as far as I understand from labor politics from momentum, there's this really exciting moment for membership, we're getting even more radical than most of a senior team And then people kind of the party machine and Kistama kind of locked down and said, No, no, you can debate a conference, but we're going to make the decisions. Now the LibDemMs have a kind of mid version of that which is members vote and it's good that they vote, but the leadership and the people around the leadership decide what gets voted on, decides what order it gets voted on, decides what the consequences of a vote are. So even if someone votes for something, it's not necessily party policy. And there's been lots of examples with the liibdomes where the membership wants something, but actually the party's just gone a ton of completely different things In the Green Party, it is one member one vote. So whatever members want to debate, they vote on the order that's debated on. they come to the hall and do that Is that like wild in some ways? Yes, because you sit in that hall and if I'm frank, sometimes it's really boring, which is a problem in itself. like it can be a seven or eight hour debate about very niche things. and I think that puts people off too So I think we've got to work out like how do you make that process more accessible but not lose the democratic point of it? But I'd say for anyone who's engaged and engaged enough to be listening to a political conversation and go, I want something different. They're the sort of people that would sit through that debate and go, you know what? this is a bit dull, but it's worth it because we're going to vote in the end. And there's lots of examples recently where the Green Party voted on things where Traditionally people have been put off from the Green Py because they've seen like more conservative on Nimby positions. Yeah Rin a little Yeah, so I'm doing a video right at the moment about like why Britain sucks at building And it really is quite multip pronged It's lots of layers to it, but obviously the Nimby side is a problem. So when I was looking for it, I only found like really a couple examples and I can't say that the Green partarty the worst at it because lots of people do it. but it does seem to be like this Cervative Coopting of like green as just a way of preventing build in. So the one I saw was something along the lines of U if there's people install like bat homes in their area because if there's bats present in an area it means that the planning permission won't go or they have to make like a home for have to pay more. It just makes the planning permission more unlikely to go through more expensive How do you combat that within the Greens? Because it does seem like maybe a co opting of what the Greens are actually trying to achieve, but using it and finding like oh, this could actually work for us to do the opposite of that, you know Yeah, yeah. so like yeah. So the first thing is we've got a housing crisis and I think any of this conversation needs to start in that place. like we need to build a lot of council houses. So I'm not talking about big unaffordable developments and no on'es living in their assets. but actual homes that people will live in and they're affordable What is actually happening though, is developers are very keen to build those buildings. And we often hear it's about planning permission But I think the stat is there are more homes with planning permission or more buildings like land waiting that have planning permission. Last timeard' two point five million plots of land that have got planning permission and only one point five million that got built. So there's like, yeah, you are right. It's called land banking or something Exactly. And the land banking point is like the central thing to this because that's what you know, we talk about powerful stories That's the fact and st that people don't know. The story that people think is true is people who care about toads, bats and newots. and I'll talk about why we need to care about those in a second, but they're like painting the toad bats and newots against ordinary people But the powerful story that's actually happening without a shadow with doubt is very wealthy developers pitting themselves against people who can't afford to live And it's really important that we make it clear that that is the two sides here And those why are we not hearing that story? Because it's the same developers who are giving money to the political parties. Sadik Khan, a politician that I sit opposite frequently because I'm elected to the London Assembly where he's may Yeah, he's one of the better labour politicians I still have issues with him, but he took more money from property developers in donations than he took from trade unions. And this is someone who often paints himself as the left of the Labour Party. So the property developers are deep in labour politicians' pockets. Of course, not just labour politicians, conservatives and reformed too But the attack often comes from labour that when limbs It is a very, very concentrated attack to try and delegitimize the fact we are pointing out very clearly that they are taking money from property developers to not even build buildings, to landbank And then when they do build buildings Like the amount of affordable homes or social homes is usually very small. And even then they try and have like an extra door if you're living in the social home partark rather than the rich posh people or they have a playground. Just things that are utterly disgusting in twenty twenty five. They shouldn't have been going on for decades. But the fact they're still trying to find ways So let's call it what is essentially apartheid or segregation between poor people and rich people and say that's okay And talk about the toads backat and Nots though What I don't want anyone to take from this conversation, it wouldd be easy to play to your audience and go, I don't care about those things. I just want to build homes We have to care about those things because we've got a nature and climate crisis. And if we run out of species We're all screwed. We're all dead. and it really is as simple as that. Now I'm not saying that's happening tomorrow, I'm not like sccaremongering with this, but we are one of the most nature depleted countries in the world and there is no reason to destroy nature. you can abs and Green cououncils have got examples of this. I just went to Lancaster whether just built hundredundreds of new council homes The trees were still up and I was like, it's really good that you cut the trees. And the council leader, sorry, one of the cabinet members was just like, Well, of course you just build r the trees. And like it's not rocket science. You go, let's care about nature, let's care about people, let's build And then a very final bit, am I saying that there is never any like person who supports the Green Party who is like using these excuses because they just don't want like their view to be ruined. No, absolutely not. I know that goes on. And does it go on more than any other parties? No, absolutely not. And I think there's actually evidence that when you look at where Greens are on planlning committees, they are approving just as much, if not more than other parties But I also think, yeah, people are people and like when they feel like something's being taken away from them or they're losing some light or they're losing a green space that they enjoy, or not even the green space, you know, they're losing their view then they will try and use the system to try and block things. But that mean blocking things when there's really good reasons to should be scrapped and thrown out the window. So it's why it's complicated, but I think it has to come from the place. We have to build homes, we have to protect nature and stop letting developers run the system because that is like The ultimate like downfall of everything, the system. You know, now I think about when I was watching the video that mentioned the Newtts thing, I realized like because it's absurd sounding, it sort of jumped out in the video more and if anything, they spent a bit more time on that. But then when I went to Google it, it felt like there was like a handful of cases. And then they sort of in that video brushed over like they mentioned the land But they were like, oh yeah, and there's like one point five million plots of land that are just not being used And' hang on a second is I'm realizing what you're saying is quite accurate. Yeah, there's going to be these like probablyrob edge cases here and there, but They're using what they do every single time. Eedge cases random bits to try and like Distract because they sound preposterous, distract from a bigger story that's happening. That's a very good point. I appreciate say. definitely. And the other thing, like that took me, I don't know three to four minutes to speak. Thankks for letting me speak But you know, normally if I go on LBC, you say one sentence and they're in, they're jumping on you. And like how do you tell that nuanced story that is complicated where someone is showing up? You could be like, B, you think the newts are more powerful than the fucking planning developers, you idiot. Obviously, that's you're talk about one fucking situation Yeah, it's it's That's walking that way into the bank. Yeah. Yeah, what I know is I've been watching more and more clips of you talking and that and you're very good at being concise and straight, which I quite like because when I talk, I'm qu I think a lot. I sort of and my brain has to like take time to think. And I was realizing like I was sort of analyzing your talking style when you do debates and that. you're actually very good at packing in a big story into like a soundbite, which is fucking very hard to do, but you kind of hit the corners and I suppose that's the acting background probably helps with her I appreciate that, but I still want to get better at it. L I think, yeah, we can all get better at our communication And I'm I talk really quick, which helps because you can pack information in, but also hopefully don't talk too quick that people don't understand. And so it's like having clarity at speed. But you know, sometimes people are like, why is he talking that quick? Proably today as well. But it's like if you do enough hostile interviews, you're like, I don't have time to mess around. the first line. the audience. and then when they come back, you have to deal with their objection and then carry on with wherever you're going to anyway. And again, I'm giving them a lot of love on this call, but Gary Stehvenson again. He will not be taken off inequality no matter what they throw at him. he's just like inequality inequality inequality. And like if people watch him a lot, is it repetitive? sureure But there's lots of evidence that like once someone's starting toon you're repetitive, they're probably hearing it for the first time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, stop the votes is repetitive, but fucking won an election. So it's like that is politics. So I wanted to ask I had a few questions this one comment. It was like just positions on things. we could maybe just brush for like sort of short answers. So this is like Where' do you stand on it political donation reform. So big money coming in is there anything you can do on a policy level to stop the influence of, you, billionaires buying up our elections Yeah, two things. So donations political parties, we don't have billionaire backers. we don't even have millionaire backers. So we don't take money from corporate donors We' funded by people giving, you know like small donations across the country. I was just seeing so Bernie Sanders was talking about this the other day. Bernie's brother Larry, who lives in the UK, just endorsed me actually, which was really really cool moment. But he was basically saying your donations are the way that we keep free of having to take money from big corporates. so keep doing that Side note though, I think that's where independent media on streaming is so important because no one can buy you, Jimmy. So people should be donating to you I'm hoping they're donating to you on another page.'s are. There's a Give me a few minutes. I'll start changing objectject, objectject So I think that's got to be theedia and it's got to be the model for politics, which is bll over money Not about not taking money, but let's disperse it so it's community and democratic rather than like very, very small people squeezing it. in terms of what you do about that? Yeah on a political yeah, on the grand political level for other parties. like you guys can be your principlals, but you're going be fighting with You know, like, when someone's coming in with a knife. So how would you stop it if you were doing a policy level. Yeah you've got to legislate, and all I mean by that is changed the law. The Labour Party before the general election took four point one million pounds from Odrichher Capital, who are a hedge fund with assets in arms sales, oil and gas and gambling companies. Kir Stalmer did it in the week. where the election was called, but you didn't have to announce until after the election that you'd taken this money He wasn't doing anything wrong. Those are the rules. so he stuck by the rules, but the rules are clearly wrong. So needs more accountability and also I think there needs to be clearer caps about who lives in this country, how much taxes are they paying and who you know who you're giving this to the political party to? It is very complicated, though. I don't want to pretend it's not like people find ways to setp fake companies or give stuff to them So I think the number one thing you've got to do is have transparency. The electoral Commission don't have enough teeth. They're the people who are responsible for checking these things are happening, but because they're ultimately accountable to government, that's a problem because just like the BBC, if they start to challenge the government too much for the government are like, well, we're done with you then. So we need these independent bodies and it's the same with media by the way. We need to make sure that media have their own independent bodies. so they're not being kept to account by the same government and meant to be scrutinising. I've seen a policy I think they tried it out in America in some state and it was about like donation coupons. so like the government literally gives individuals twenty bucks or something and then people vote with their money. I think it's been tried out. I think it was success in a few places. so it might be like just a thing to look into. I think it's called like political coupons or donation coupons or something Yeah I didn't think that I willoole Sn. Yeah, haven it. So next one is about renationalization. Do you have many sanwers on reationalization as an entire concept and would you or like is it specifics that maybe you think this should be, this shouldn't be Where do you stand ank Pied Nationations complete failed so this is the easiest answer to give. We need to renationalize our vital services. So at the moment, water companies are pumping sewage into our waters and getting us to pay extra for the privilege. Again, issue with the lib DMs, they'll call that out, but they won't go as far as renationalizing We know that at the moment, like they're giving so much money to their CEO's and shareholders reationalized without giving a penny of money to those people who have had a lot of money. A lot of them don't even live in this country. They're all over the world raking it in. So yes, nationalize water energy, rail. A again with rail, the Labour government went a little bit of way, that's good they' nationalize the rolling stock. againain, this is a bit technical, so I don't wantan to lose people, but it's essentially the tracks and things that the trains go on. The most important bit because you can nationalize everything else, but if the trains can't get around then you're taking a piss. And also the National Health Service, which obviously is nationalized, but Wes Streeting is on it. and I had a debate with him a few weeks before the general election. He put his hand up into my face. not right in my face but to my face and said the left are bleeding on again And he was basically trying to pr I was lying about the fact he's trying to privatize our our national health service and every single thing he's done since then is showing exactly where he's going Where would you stand I' say like I remember Corbyn. I remember when I was on the right, this really put me off I'm But I was quite ideologically tied into the idea of like free markets and shit. but he was talking about nationalizing the internet and stuff like, you know, like The internet masks like the five G masks and all sort of stuff, this can be done better at a state level than it can be in a private level. And we can kind of see that in London, our internet is dog shit. Like when I go I've been in I was in the middle of the sea Going somewhere in Croatia, I had full bars. I was like I was able to watch a whole video And I was like, I don't even in all of London, I don't get anything like this So where do you stand on things like that? because they're a bit more politically, I guess toxic, I don't know Yeah. so I'm being completely honest when Corbyn first announced that, I couldn't get quite where he was coming from but I wasn't, you know, the media all pounced on him and was like, this is the worst idea ever. Communists, Marxist, Satan, whatever. I definitely wasn't there, but I was just a bit like, oh, you know, I don't I don't quite get where he's coming from. But since then and I've had a meeting about this recently, like it is such a social justice issue to use another term. If you don't have a job and you need to search and you can't afford it, you're already like being punished for the poverty you're already living in. And there is so much evidence, particularly in London that is the poorest communities who have the worst internet. Not only that, if they're doing a job interview like remotely And they're having to pay for the meter. So it's not just about the internet your electricity too. The risk of something getting cut out or you having the kind of chaos where your camera isn't quite set up or your light isn't up. People judge those things and you're being put into even more further chaos. So one of the most simple things we could do as a great leveveler is to make sure that everyone has good decent internet. Now I know the argument always is Rich people don't need these things. This is why another powerful argument on the left we've got to win at some point is universality. This is just the idea that like S things everyone should get. The National Health Service is an example This is something Ma hass done right in London. he's given all primary school kids free school meals. That's an amazing policy. It should happen to secondary school meals. The Tories are really trying to attack that now going, whyy are you giving rich kids free school meals? But the point is, if you're a kid from a working class background and you get to school, do you want to have to like stand in another queue with the stigma of seeing your other mates do it where you don't do it? No If you universalize things, it removes that, it's a great level for things. and interternet is an exact example of that. So not on this one thing alone, but it's another example where know people should have really listened to Jeremy Corbin I yeah, like the thing that's kind of won me over in time is because I still see things like I love the idea of markets. I like the idea of business and like coming up with cool ways of selling things and innovating products. I like all of that. But what I've come to conclude is like if more and more obviously, it's not like some big brain take, but if more and more of your money is spent on just things you need in order to operate in life, just to do your job in order to survive, that's less and less money you have to spend and use in the marketplace that is actually to vote Like if people use the expression like vote for your money, you pay for the company that you want rather the one you have to, that extra money that is not spent That is wasted effectively on these utilities. It' money you don't spend in your community.' money you don't spend like, you know, I want to get the windows done in my house That sort of money, those luxury bits of money, that gets spent less. and that's the thing that really drives innovation and like local communities and moving money around like locally. And so I'm more of a believer if you can take money away from these big multinationals, and you can cover these basics, these sort of infrastructure like basics in people's lives, these utilities. you give more money for people to actually use in the market and your local economy. And that money circulates and makes people work locally as opposed to just, you know, sending it offshore effectively I love it. and also like thinking about how we work too, we were told we'd get, you know, more wages, less work That is complete opposite of what's happening People are working more, they're getting paid less. smallm businesses are getting run down to the ground. We could be looking at things like like a four day working week Universal basic income, universal basic services. There's all these kind of conversations we could be having if we weren't spending all our money and resources on the essentials And you know, obligatory mention here, but it's also true when the climate cris gets worse when we have more wildfires, more floods, which we know are coming They Public services are going to be very busy dealing with all that we don't have time to like have the public sector running everything. That's not the aim here. But for the public sector to be running the essential things From the argument youve just put it's just so obvious. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, like the more I see it, that's like the thing in the Scandinavian notions. It's like it's what you were saying about universality You create, you just have more money that's freed up to use in the economy. and like I haven't heard many people be able to argue strongly against it. I want to move on to like obviously, I've seen that you're a proponent of like tax enrich people more Do you have a specific plan? Have you read any of Richard Murphy's I don't know if you've seen his tax proposal about taxing the rich people and shit. And yeah, we'll show He's good in he's pretty good, yeah Revealing that I'm online too much, aren't I? But you know, Now I cycle to work every day and so I don't know why I'm justifying this, but I have speakers, so I'm just listening to YouTube stuff all the time and podcasts. Yeah, Richard Murphy's stuff is amazing I mean I know that he like disagrees with and some of the wealth tax. But I think the reasons are quite nuanced and it's a conversation yeah. I'm more than happy to have with them. And I think it's one of those examples where you have the good, perfect policy. And then you have a policy that isn't perfect, but is much easier to communicate And for me a wealth tax one percent tax on the wealthiest one percent. would raise between twenty five p to thirty five billion pounds a year that could be putting straight back into public services alsoso a land value tax ing income tax in line with corporation tax. What does that mean? Corporation tax is essentially, you know like the money kind of your assets for the unearned wealth At the moment, we charge that less. then we charge people who are working with their hands or doing work every day. That's completely the run way round. I guess the best way I to put this is I just did a program for Channel four, which is out in a couple of weeks. where I spoke to some migrant workers and their' cleaners. And they're not even being paid a living wage, is disgusting. And then I spoke to a patriotic millionaire. this is a group of millaires who are saying taxes more. And he says, if I own the building there the cleaners you met this morning were cleaning They would be paying more tax on the building I owned than I would be paying. That is so messed up And like when he's said that, I've known that for a long time. like academically, but to actually go That Pysically the experience that people are having, they're cleaning a building and they're paying more tax than the person who's probably in the Bahamas who owns that building. So yeah, tax wealth, not income. Nice man. Yeah, there's go, yeah, that's insanny. There's you kind of tied me back to something you were saying earlier, like you mentioned about land value tax. land value tax can be away from what I understand offsetting Nimbiism because sometimes people will rightly oppose building in their area because they understand that if you build some luxury flats in your area your area is now going to be it's going to have a lot more people in it and ironically, although people sort of naively think you in increase the supply of housing it'll bring down the price that doesn't always happen, especially if it' lxury housing It will actually have the alternative effect of raising the prices of everyone else's rents because the land has become more valuable. And A lot of people so this was a really interesting conversation I had my group of mates was I showed a picture of something they're building in my town in Milton Keyn and I was like, this's actually quite nice looking because you know I like my architecture and Milton Keynes, not very good architecture, in my opinion And they proposed and I was like, this is quite nice. I put it in the chair my mate goes, great, my rent's going to go up. And we end up having this big debate and then like we talked about it and I figured out like, yeah, of course it will because if it's going to be luxury housing for London commuters They're going to bring their higher wages and they're going to drive the prices up because all the rent all all the landlords in the area going to realize actually this land is worth more So they're going to start charging more. And it's like ironic and land value tax is a way of offsetting that, which can also offset Nimbiism because people are being nimby sometimes out of defense of their own living standards tax is important because you know these things are complicated and To give an example, I sometimes hear green colleagues, you know who I support, but they'll phrase it as you know, we just need to take a little bit of tax from the super super wealthy And I object to like the phrase a little bit of tax because I'm like, And we need to be really clear. we're not talking about independent businesses here or even like businessusinesses where people are like doing pretty well We are talking about like huge multinationationsals, We're talking about the huge corporates. We're talking about people who are earning more money than anyone no matter how hard they work could earn in their lifetime just while they're asleep And we need to tax them properly, not a little bit, but properly and use that money. Of course, that's not the only way to invest in public services, but it's a way of reducing inequality But I think the second thing then is I met the Wealth Tax Commission and they were saying if you open the net too wide, the amount of people you need to then hire to stop tax avoidance starts to offset the amount you're able to collect in tax. So that's why for me a simple message is just go for a wealth tax on the super rich And when you dig into it, there's lots of different versions of it. Again, I think Gary puts this really well, which is like, let's not get caught in our opponents being able to go, What's your exact proposal or what's the exact detail? because I'll always try and find a loophole, orr there will be a loophole because you've got to change the system. You can't just change one thing But what it is winning with the public, the fundamental idea that some people are so wealthy while other people are homeless, starving And we're spending money on war, we're spending money on bombs. we're not spending money on books, We're not spending money on schools or our national health service. So let's make sure we're talking more about peace. We're talking about community you' got to sell them on the is people because a lot of I would say A lot of stuff can be achieved but you just have to get the political system there. And it's like, you know, them don't they don't fucking answer to how they're going to work, you know, these lot that really want to deport all the migrants. They never answer the question, how's the NHS going to work? How How' society going to function They don't have to answer that question. They never have to answer that fucking question. The moment we start saying, how were going to tax the rich?, we want to tax the rich. They like what about subsection free of the? you know, They'll be like really in the nitty and gritty get on on the weeds of that. But they don't for a second thing, what happens to a whole nation once you leave the EU or what happens when you deport all the migrants? They don't think about that So yeah, I believe it is to say ye, I sort of think keep it simple. We need to get into the ballpark of that is now. That's what the people want and then the politicians work out how to do it exactly Yeah, and Kirstama talking about A todayod he was saying, you know, we're going to stop care workers coming in. And like what world are you living in? L there are so many vacancies for care workers right now, and we need care workers right now. And so The left were always like people try pull us apart with give us the exact detail, but if you're a government apparent you can just announce things that make absolutely no sense, but appeal to a very small raceist part of the population and then go Oh yeah, this you know, it's all going to be fine. It's not going to be fine. We need care workers. Not that we shouldn't be training British care workers as well. I take your point about patriotism too being proud of like who can train in that skill in this country. But let's be honest, you, what are these jobs that migrants are often doing? The agricultural, the hospitality. And so yes, British people can do those jobs but frequently don't want to But also can we train British people for the green revolution, the green industrial Revolution, to be making win turbine, to be nationalizing steel, to be making railway tracks, like electrif railwils, all the things that we need to happen. And I think that's a vision for a green future and you're exactly right. It's about It's about technology, it's about the opportunities, and it's about spending to invest. So with your like positions on greed energy and like the methods about how we do it, how we power it. Where do you stand on like nuclear? Be a lot of people I think Green's official you tell me Where do you guys found nuclear Yeah, so I'm not for nuclear, but not for the reasons that sometimes people putt, which is about safety or all sorts of theories I'm against nuclear because between twenty ten and twenty ten and twenty twenty, renewable energy became the cheapest energy there is and nuclear rocketed and actually it's just incredibly expensive. Not only that, you're looking at twenty, thirty years to get things online. So it's a bit like suddenly now deciding to invent the fax machine. It's just not the way forward. And that's not because I have like a deep ideological opponent thing against it. And also I'm not saying let's you know stop all nuclear now What I am saying is let's invest in renewables. We know that is the cheapest form of electricity. We live on a windy wavy island to come back to patriotism. I've been thinking about doing a video about you know, this is British wind, this is British sun. Let's harness for Britain to people's bills. And so I think often the nuclear argument often gets used again by the nuclear industry who have ulterior motives here. Now I'm not saying everyone who advocates for nuclear has ulterior motives. I think sometimes people just have a strong sense they don't want to H shout against new technologies because there's kind of like a traditionalist kind of mindset in that, but that is not where I'm coming from. Tottally afford new technologies, but let's make sure they're the cheapest technologies, they're the most accessible technologies and let's have more democratic technologies. And what I mean by that is you can have solar panels, yes on every roof. That makes complete sense, but also in community centers saver money from the solar Go straight back to the community And then they get to decide by voting, what do they do with that energy? I genuinely think that's part of how we're going to combat the far right Not just solar panels, that would be crazy, but Democracy by having community and democracy so people get to know their neighbourors. they're not the other they're not the strangers like Kirana was saying today, but actually your neighbourors are people you know. You don't have to love them. they don't have to be a best friend, but people you can have conversations with that might be your best friend and that you can go, okay, let's all have a stake in this community because kissed armour. a trust. Johnson, you know, whoever Blair, they destroyed community, not just for like tangible sense of it, but literally the physical community spaces are destroyed. One way we could be funding those spaces and doing those kind of things again is by bringing money back into the community through renewable energy I'm really curious to hear your takes on like Ukraine and NATO and Yeah, your wider attitude. So one of the things that Corbyn, I would still vote for a Corbyn, but one of the things that's like in alignment to me is And it could all just be good right wing messaging that's made me believe this, but it seems as though he is maybe antirident and these sort of things. Some people tell me like isn't quite as cut and dry as that, which fair enough I'll take that if I' may a bit misinformed But where do you stand on like in this specific time where we have aggressive states out there now And the world isn't as peaceful. even America is starting to become hostile and aggressive Where do you stand on like having a strong defense to this country And specifically NATO. Yeah. so let's talk Let's talk about those aggressive states. Let's talk about aggressive leaders. I think we've got Donald Trump We've got Vladimir Putin We've got Benjamin Netanyahu I think we need to be really clear that at the moment there are lots of nations who are being led by people who don't care about the community They clearly don't care about other communities. in fact, they're invading them and killing them. And they don't even care about their own country. What they care about is power and wealth and maintaining their own dominion. And I think that's really what the point we're at Now a newspaper last week wrongly reported that I was saying We need to leave NATO immediately. That is not something I have ever said. And in fact, in this moment when we don't have an alternative That would be absolutely absurd It's really telling from that newspaper, by the way, that they put a headline of something that is not what I said in the article and they put a picture with me with a megaphone because they're trying to do exactly what we were just talking about earlier. They're trying to paint out the Green Party and particularly me to be some radical activists that don't have a coherent sense of what's going on in the world and are just trying to like be a threat to national security I'm doing quite the opposite Here's the thing we all need to consider. We're in NATO. We're in an alliance with Donald Trump, and that alliance is based around nuclear weapons Donald Trump has said that he wants to annex Greenland If he does that, That will trigger Article V and then we're into the next World War So the question is Do we kickedonal Trump out of NATO That still doesn't resolve things because we've still got loads of other problems, and it also leads us on a complete collision course with America Do we leave Nightte immediately Obviously. That is also not safe So what I am advocating for and I think is the only common sense position is saying how do we work with people like our European neighborss? The EU was meant to be a peace project They have lost their way in many ways, but can we get it back to being a peace project What does an alternative look like where we work with partners, where we work with countries that we're aligned with and go, what does an alliance look like where we don't talk about nuclear weapons first But first we talk about diplomacy, we talk about democracy, we talk about getting around the table. Now some people will say that's naive, but my only answer to them is Nelson Mandela. lookook what he did with the ANC. sworn enemies. He got around the table and he made peace happen The troubles in Ireland again, peopleople who were killing each other, who were doing the worst heinous crimes to each other got around the table The things happen Is easy? Absolutely not. Am I pretending it's simple? Absolutely not But right now, with Donald Trump and pretending everything is okay, Everyone is safe. Global security, we've got this are so deluded. And the fact that they're the people who try and come at people on the left or people who are pro war and say you're the problem is a real example of how the media have absolutely brainwashed people into thinking that real security is about bombs. no Real security is about making sure people have a home above their head, they've got food on the table and that they are safe in their communities and don't fear the other Real security is not having media like GB newews blasting propaganda that is ultimately making us scared of our neighbours or making us scared of our other countries. We need to see really clearly in this moment and speak really authentically. NATO is a complicated subject. It requires that nuance, but don't let anyone entp and pretend it's simple Yeah, so it's like it reminds me a little bit about Brexit and the conversation. So I just am working on a video on Brexit and I was looking at the left wing critique of the EU. And you can there's sort of two things and Britain is very famously we always fall for short termism rather than long term vision. So you can have a position that is this is the rule this is what we've got today, this is how we're dealing with it. But in the future we would love to move to a world that's like this. So like the position that a lot of the left had on Brexit The remain position was effectively acknowledging there is problems in the EU. Of course, there's going to be problems in anything, but we should be working toward a future that looks like this, like a more democratic EU an EU that's less neoliberal, etcetera, working toward that as opposed to just sayingrowy throw the baby out with the bath war. And I can hear what you're sayingbe pererhaps about how do we envision a future that could look different or at least just Is there other ways you can use similar alliances, etceta rather than saying today we need to move because yeah, obviously that's an insane position. But I get what you're say it' fair. I think defend yourself well. so I appreciate it that I guess so that's what I I don't even know if your audience will like this, but it's always just about being honest. I'm as about pro European as you can get. L I cannot see another version of staying out of Europe, which is any better then rejoining Europe. And at the same time, Europe is so problematic, especially now that we've got right wing governments across Europe who are fueling the fire of toxicity, who are fueling the fire of the far right But I don't think staying out of that conversation is the right way Europe should be a peace project and this is how it's different to NATO because NATO was never meant to be a peace project. It's meant to be a military project What I'm arguing for is in these times we need to be promoting and amplifying the voices of peace Are Europe a peace project now? Absolutely not. this Huge problems with Europe But I really believe that by showing solidarity to left wing projects around the world, like seeing the Linker in Germany, for instance, who just did really, really well, a really good left wing project in Germany, by bolstering and amplifying those voices, by working to bridge divides, and also obviously there are green parties across Europe that I'm really aligned with that are on the left and not all of them. And so it's That complicated thing of seeing, where do I align with people? Where are people pushing to reduce inequality? Where are people pushing for peace and not war and not to push for military industrial complex? and having those nuanced conversations because I do believe another Europe is possible And what I don't agree with Idash was during the remain campaign me included We didn't criticize Europe enough. I think the argument working class communities heard was everything's great and if you vote remain, everything's going to stay the same. So people were obviously like, I don't want things to stay the same. My life's shit. I want things to change and we absolutely should have seen that coming. I think we're in a similar moment now where we should recognise and if we just, if people say we need to rejoin Europe, people go, we voted on that once, why would we want to rejoin? And I get that What we've to do is build powerful stories about how being in a peace project and being in a project to reduce inequality and stand for working class communities across Europe is the future of where we need to go. But that's going to be a long time at building trust. I don't think it's going tomrow and not shut it And with foreign strateia, people asking about Ukraine, where do you stand on your position with funding Ukraine Well, anyone has a right to have sovereignty over their nation and I've been completely consistent about that. studood with Palestinians, obviously at personal cost being Jewish, a lot of the mainstream Jewish community have turned against me on that, but I absolutely stand with Ukrainians too, and that's because if you have any moral clarity about people's right to be sovereign, to look after their own nation and for innocent people to not die, which you know It's wild that you even need to say that sentence out loud then of course, you absolutely need to need to stand with those people And I guess where there's nuance in that is I always stand with people for defense And if it's about being an aggressor or if it's about pushing people back, then again, I think that's why we need to have diplomacy first That is not saying no ever to weapons as in weapons to attack rather than defend. That's not saying no other to weapons. know, I'm not a pacifist. there are times when you absolutely need to take the fight But diplomacy has to be first. And as far as I'm concerned, we've never really seen a huge attempt on a global stage to go, How can we leverage a real conversation here that is about all people being at the table? And that's both in Palestine and Israel, that is not about one side having a loud voice. It's about recognizing that there are power dyamics, same with Putin and Zelensky. You've got to reconize with power dynamics, but ulimately you've also got to make sure there's quality at the table in the conversation. So if you were to be in charge tomorrow, would you keep funding Ukraine and would you cut arms to Israel? What would you? Pitions be Yeah, exactly that. So I keep selling defence arms to Ukraine and I would cut arms to Israel until they could demonstrate that they were not committing a genocide and until they could demonstrate that things were only being used by defence. It's again undeniable that Israel is often attacked by people. I think there's very strong arguments that if you take people's right to live away and you take away any sense to protest. what option is left and these conversations are often weaponised as well under apartheid. But absolutely, like we should not be arming any nation that is invading another country and killing innocent people, like I don't want my money being spent on that and I don't think anyone does. And what is really wild is when you poll people or ask people, they feel the same too. So it demonstrates how broken our politics is. The the late partarty know how unpopular these decisions are, but can still keep going on. And I think it does also need naming. that I absolutely support Ukrainian refugees coming to the UK. I can't say that loud enough refugees, no matter who they are or where they come from, deserve our support and solidarity. It's very noticeable though, the love and support Ukrainian refugees have been given by the Labour Government as opposed to Afghan refugees, Libyan refugees, Yemeni refugees all part of wars that we've been part of Pausing. the NATO complex. So again, M Dama's moral clarity on this is so It's what annoys me with the refugee thing. There' so many good genuine conversations about how fucked we are dealing with it. But what the conversation is being had on is whether we should deal with it. So I personally believe it should be a given that we I mean, it's not even personally. It's fucking we're bound to by UN human rights laws that were written after the fucking war because we realize that it's very important to have a refugee system in the world Regardless It's like The way what annoys me is I don't want to ever concede ground to the right on on this topic because they don't argue in good faith. When they point out problems, they're not arguing good faith. They're against refugees full stop a lot of the time if it's like, you know very ardent right wingers. But there are problems with the way we manage it. L there's problems with the way that we house them There's people making money off the refugee crisis. There's like there's like people that do the house placement that become billionaires will not become billionaires, but they are owned by very, very wealthy people that actually manage the housing and placement. And often it results in then put in refugees into poorer communities because for them it's cheaper to house them in a poor area than it is to put them in a wealthfi area. So if you go down like a nice place in I don't know Chelsea you're not going to find them being housed up there, but we hous them in poorer communities, which of course, you know, we need to do it in a smart way that's not going to cause disruption. It is a hard thing to do inherently. But we're not even having this conversation because the conversation has been absolutely hijacked by just whether we should even Well not even we just shouldn't do the refugee thing. It's insane Absolutely. And it's you know, it's called a crisis, but it's a manufactured crisis.. They removed the ways to assess people. They created those ceues because the tours wanted, you know, like a villain to point at And yeah, it's austerity, as we've said many times that is stopping people getting doctor's appointments, stopping housing, stopping people know being on congested transport. Those problems are there anyway, whether we have refugees or migrants. And those problems are just being exacerbated by the fact that there are there more people, but they've not spent the money to build the infrastructure that we need. and that's a very, very deliberate strategy. And yeah, you're entirely right, we need to call it I think there's another thing too, which is Sometimes people separate refugees and people seeking asylum from migrants. And I get why, they're three different things And people seeking asylum deserve our love and support more than anyone else in terms of literally fleeing war and persecution. But also, you know, if someone wants to come over here for a better life Like and they're paying taxes. Let's welcome them. Let's make sure that we're supporting British people. Let's make sure that we've got British industry happening and you know people don't feel like we're being pitted against But again, the enemy should not be. peopleeople who are coming over here for a better of life who want to contribute to this country who love this country. The problem is multi millionaires and billionaires who are not and providing for this country and profiting offers And so yeah, it's like this is the thing. like I'm very pro migration. I just think like Yeah, the conversation just gets absolutely hijacked, like I'm can do you can clearly do things in a good way and a bad way. Like if you just use migration to patch Um, especially on like u like There's one stat out there I've seen about how in lower skilled jobs, if you bring in migration, it can drive down wages. and I need to like maybe fact check that, double check that. But it would it would it's understandable they could do that. Like if you're holding, if you're taking people that are going to accept a lower pay, then you could probably hold a lower skilled job at that. And it annoys me that the conversation is never and Well then perhaps we need to raise the wage or perhaps we need to have some regulations around these companies to do that. It's always demonize the migrant as the migrant is the bad person And it's like, surely we can, you know have sensible policies around these things without demonizing. And also this is a percentage of immigration, whereas they throw out the whole immigration conversation around little things like that. They find the little cracks and they'll drill on that to throw the whole baby up I've got nothing to add there apart from somethinging I've realized I've said the whole call, which I should have said is that anyone who joins the Green Party can vote in these leadership elections. So yeah, just to encourage people to join. you get one member one vote. Everything is democratic and you can join up until july thirty first and still vote So people have power in the party, whether they joined twenty years ago, whether jined five years ago, or whether they joined straight after this call. ye I'm not subtle, My campaign manager would tell me off if I hadn't said that. Now up big up. I always say if there's any questions from the chat if anyone has any specific questions. I'm really bad at reading the chat whilst doing this. So yeah I'll let you guys get them in now I I'm play this I' sho in six minutes. Okay, cool. G're going to a community theatre event of all things, say. All right Well let me actually ask you about in importantn state. sayay reform, all right. So one of the things we talk about is like progressive speak you know, language that works in certain audiences, etcera If you're in a conversation, right? you're some you're on a panel and you're with Farage, right and you're go in U You know, fuck when he attacks the rich, These are the problems, privatization. and he goes what is a woman How are you how are you going to deal with these kind of just bullshit right wing type reform type talking points? in a debate, how would you combat that kind of approach You meet them with the exact same energy they come at you with. So I think it's having the facts, having the stats, but also not being bullied down. And I think that's again something on the left we can all work on Hm because there's that kind of sense of wanting to be nice and I get that. And like I'm not coming on here to pretend to be anything that I'm not I'm pretty nice, I'm pretty kind, but also and feisty and you know, if you get my back upp, then I will protect and defend More importantly than me, but my communities and people I seek to represent. So here's what I think whenever I'm in a debate. I never think I am on this debate because this is about me or even about the Green Party, to be honest This is about millions of people around the country who need this to be said right now. This is about billions of people around the world who are facing the climate crisis whose homes are being flooded, their world is on fire The oil and gas has been extracted by the Iustrial Revolution. like all of these things, like that should speak with clarity. So no right wing talking head. And by the way, Faraj, a man who is a millionaire who claims to speak for the working class, but is actually speaking up for billionaires, should ever be able to talk us down And so I think it's about being able to absolutely hold your own, hold your space and do it confidently. And I think again, that's where Mick Lynch actually excels and I think that is decades of practice without calling a oldld.. And I think it's something that all of us who are in public space We can always work on, we can always be more confident and I think it's about doing it in a way too that if you come in too strong, you seem too cocky or you seem like anry lefty. And so it's I've sometimes seen comments where people go, he smiles too much. he needs to stop smiling I'm a smiley person, I'm never going to stop smiling but When you pess me off or when you pess off what I represent. then that's the moment to go for it. And I think it's just knowing about Its being authentic, right? It's not going in with a game plan. It's like living in the moment, hearing what comes at you and then responding authentically in the moment. Yeah, I I hope you do really well. I hope you win and I'm very excited to see how you handle these sort of conversations. I think It's great having someone who really yeah aligns on a lot of the things we're all talking about and who's actually in the political space because it's A lot of the time it feels it's fun doing the YouTube shit, but it's like we're in our little corner talking to each other cool, but we want to impact the world. Like someone' just asking the thing I hear they just said like Um I've just joined the greens so milk fingers just joined the greens. What can I do right now to get stuck in and help out? And it's like, yeah I want to ask Ax. it's like Question for me as well, like what can someone like me do had to get stuck in And first of all, don't talk yourself down like these YouTube corners. You know I've talked to a lot about community on this call, but this is a community, right? You know some of the people who pop up, people know each other on the pop up. Like when the world is shit and it feels scary, having a place to go where you go, actually what's pumped our ees all the time, we don't have to believe And also most importantly, and again, it's what I love that you do, Jimmy, is its not like it's not ranting and just being angry, which there's a space for that, but it's actually going, let's arm ourselves with facts and let's arm ourselves with information. Now what I think the leftft have done wrong in the past and I think the Green Party certainly have is they've done the let's arm ourselves with facts and information. and now let's go into this debate with the facts because facts will always win been no story. but I think what you do is you combine, here's the factsual information because let's not be talking shit. Let's make sure that what we're talking about is grounded in reality because otherwise we'll be eaten alive but also make sure the facts then meet up with this powerful story. And YouTube, I think, the way that you talk with your audience, the way the audience interacts is exact way to build community. And again, I think it's the way that everyone up skills. I really want to shout out and know Jice MTG and Someone I listen to lots when I'm traveling around because no disrespect to her. She's very rarely saying something that I haven't heard or haven't thought about But she has a very, very powerful way of going. That's for Keya And sometimes when I'm talking, if I'm in a debate with another politician, I feel like there's an in a Hellena where I'm like, o yeah, I remember talking about this. and she spoke about it so powerfully. Now I think some politicians wouldn't admit they do that because there'd be some like kind of stigma or snobbishness about YouTubbe. You guys know your craft. You're doing this, what?very night or at least like a few times a week. You're constantly talking about politics and you're honing your messages, like you're the most powerful people to learn from More widely though, how can this person help me? Thanks for joining the Green partarty backzZak. com ZZ AK backzZack. comot There's a WhatsApp broadcast group. I think we launched it yesterday. There's about six hundred people on it already, but we're constantly kind of every few days going, this is how you can help today. And we're going to be pushing those messages It's a real moment for the Green Party that is an intersection. It is not determined that I will win at all. I believe I've absolutely got grassroots members. I believe that when I go around the country, I meet people constantly even before I was running who were like, please run, we want to vote for you Traditionally though, those members are not the people who vote in Green Party leadership elections, The people who vote are often wealthier people who live in rural places who don't necessarily watch my stuff online and just know like who Caroline Lucas is because they've seen her on TV and the fact that two MPs are running will be very attractive to them. Now, it's not that I can't win them overer either. I've had many a conversation with lovely grrannys for instance, who have done amazing things for the party and we can connect on these things because inequality hurts you whether you're young or whether you're old, it's the same things. and so many people get that Plus, I deeply care about the climate crisis, and they can connect with me on that too But if we don't get there this message out there to particularly demographics that haven't voted before in Green partarty leadership elections, I won't win. So if you want to see a party People like me who are talking about these things, it's not just me, but a whole team of people, deputies, spokespeople, future cabinet ministers, then you've got to join the Green Party and you've got to vote and that starts with going to backackZack. Thanks for asking me that. I was trying to pitch, you know, like subtly through it, but it's always helpful when Just give us the pitch. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's sick. And like I think to be honest, no matter how you end up wanting to vote in the general election, things might where it might be. I think it'd be a nice feeling for us who are trying to build a thing right now online to feel like we have some presence in the real world. So like Zach does represent the kind of ideas and the things we're going for. And if you see him win, you can think that look, we actually had an impact there. like we we and if you're in the fucking the BBC, it's in the newspapers, you can feel like you were part of that. So yeah, I appreciate that. I cheheck out at Greenens Organize This isn't my group, but this is a group within the party. I know you've shouted out the video they did before. they made that video and can With the keys are going, I love my clunch Yeah gres organized. This is definitely something you could really help with Jimmy. They're having conversations. Helene is very involved with like if we had a perfect green party, what would the Cs be saying? How would we be organizing? what kind of policies would we be having? So they are, you know, like a group within the Green party who are going We love the Green Party, but we're not quite there yet with this current leadership. So they are like organizing the clusing the title to go. actually when we build, when we have these grassroots power, when we do things on YouTube. what does that future Green Party look like? It's a really good thing for anyone to get involved with H I said two things. Yeah yeah, I won't take any more of your tongues unless you you got a head out. But thanks so much for jumping on street. That sick. I really enjoyed that. I think the view I loveved it Jimmy. Thanks so much for having me you know yeah I think I've said enough times how much I appreciate what youre doing and sayay one more time. Appreciate what you' doing, man. I appreciate you're doing. Big big up and yeah, be good stay in touch Do like guys. Pace, pace, pace. I no Oh a spaceeship How do I fucking there we go? Did I do it end me for there we go What do we think What do you think, lads Back Z that, hashtag back Z that. I don't trust any other political party. You sound like my dad I up. Father the giant there Tust to know. Zach has my vote. you're a really good interview. Thankk you so much. bit annoyed that he wouldn't just say it's okay with nuclear, but that's all right. Green Pie would be the end of the UK as we know it. A That's a shame. We should probably just keep voting for neoiberals then. That's just keep let's just keep going for the billionaires. That'll fix it. Z's a lege, mate. All right, I didn't change my mind or anything. He's better than Dana than Dena. I think you should endorse him one hundred percent. To be honest, I am sort of leaning that way. I'm leaning that way I you know what? like what where where I just don't know what is the strap? I don't know whether the greens as a tiny party is like But they seem to be fucking growing and it seems to be like the alternative and I like Zach. I think is like I think his politics's in the right place, heart's in the right place and I think he actually is good at communicating. I would say I do like this sort of The Mick Lynches of the world, Eddie Demp', the G' I And I do think in this combative era we need that. but it isn't to say like other people can't join the party and help be part of that movement And like what he was saying at the beginning is true to be honest is that, okay, for me, that voice works, I'm too loud and I. For me, that voice really works that kind of like Pe who sound like me act like me, but you gott to think That is a corner of British society Zach is sort of like trying to appeal to a wide amount of people, which youd need to do as a leader Um So yeah, I don't know. I am sort of leaning towards it Give me a few days to think about. I'm a very indecisive person, but I would say if you're Leaning towards green definitely votes out. And if you want to feel like you're having an impact in politics in the real world. If let's just get a fucking headline a newspaper Let's get one of our law in charge of a pie that's big. like that is big that is a win and that will help us like because One of the things Gary was saying in a recent video was like, let's not burn ourselves out, you know, like we want the fuck it we want the big revolution, the political revolution to happen now But it's not going to happen now. It's probably not going to happen in three years, probably not happen in four years. It's going to be slow along and to keep motivated sometimes it is probably good to have these wins And I reckon getting Zack in charge of the greens is going to start pushing the over window U And I think yeah I would definitely support thatZ I think he's the boy. ye. So yeah. It could be better with you on the ride. Yeah, I mean, I'm not against it. I just I don't know where I would slot in on on that. Like in like, what do I do? I don't really wantan to be a politician. I wantan to just keep doing what I'm doing, but I don't know. But yeah, it does feel like the start of summit. does feel like the start of summit, you know We've got to fucking do something, luds. That's how I see it. like Youve got star over here fucking talking like Ench Powell talking about we're strangers in our own land. We need we need to start active like getting active. We need to start doing something. So big up Zach. Thankk you so much for coming on. reallyally really enjoyed chatting with him I can see the potential of there But Jimmy is always much more reasonable than most in this space. The time shall come when you can proudly state that you are British. Brother I am fucking proud and British. What are you on about I think greens just need to get him and get some large speaking opportunities. Yeah, and that's the thing, I'm seeing him all on my timeline. I know I' obviously a lefty so I'm going to seeal that shit, but like I don't see any of the others this era of politics Communications is what matters I'm seeing him and he's saying the right things and attacking the right people. So YouTube affects culture, culture affects politics You just need to help them along with the other YouTubers with social media game. Yeah, yeah. I think that is something I could help with for sure Um Mm Only you can save mankind, if not you, then who else God us gangst al it You should Enoch was right. Well, We'll see, mate. Starms has just gone down that route so I'm sure tomorrow everything's going to be fine, right? Once we kick out the migrants billionaires will just like start giving us better wages and shit because you know That's what's going to happen And everyone would start hanging out again, you know That's what's going to happen for sure What else could happen You know You need to keep doing what you're doing and if you believe in Zach, when it comes close to votes and such, you can throw an ad drop in your videos. Yeah yeah Greens are the only party that is against austerity And that's it. L we need to have a vessel for the voice of taxer rich and austerity and reationalize. We need that voice out there. And if we don't have it in the political space, we're only going to be talking amongst ourselves who are like hyper online political people. We need Baz and suz to be on this message And you see how Zach holds up in debate. To be honest it's not bad. I saw one that was pretty good. He did one with the reform guy but the reform guy is a pretty he just sort of like ignored all of the facts and just started trying shit. But yeah, he did pretty well to like pin him on the factat that reforms Reform takes like ninety percent of their donations. Obviously it' be different now because they got a mass like political they got mass sign upps from the people. but I can't remember when, but they took like ninety percent donations from oil billionaires and Zach was like, you are are trying to act like you're the voice of the people Are the people oil billionaires I volunteer as a student Jimy what was his economic stance? Well, I mean, he was talking about taxing the rich and funding the he wantce he stands out reationalization funding infrastructure projects, etc of funding green technologies He wants to stand for like the Green Revolution which I fully fucking endorse Jim, he's not going to win an election is he? We need a left wing party. He is they are a left wing party. And you don't know that. you don't know that. Bear in mind like Zach is learning it. like he said it as well. He's like, you know he's aware of all of the things people are saying and he's trying to perfect is approach Sor I'm going to say it's best to get behind someone that is what we're about and work from there. Mate this is the thing I say, right When it comes to sports Right I know a lot of people. when we got into like When I was doing like parkol and stuff. You get people to come in and on day one they want to know how to do a backflip And they'd really bump themselves out. or let's say let's say a sport that has equipment, right? So they go and buy, I don't know,'s mountain biking. So they go and buy the nice bike, the fucking I don't know the gloves or whatever I don't think you really wear gloves mount biking, you get my point The helmet They buy all this and they don't even know a fucking ride properly They They then quit because they sort of wanted to get too far ahead. I know people that wanted to get into YouTube and wanted to make a documentary before they even knew how to use Uh, and editing software And so they burn themselves out by being like, well, we need to be we need to be there. We need to have everything in place. We need to have all the things in place before we even get off the couch It's I'm sorry but that's not gonna work. That's not how you succeed in life in anything The way you get better is just doing it thenen you improve Then you get better, thenen you get stronger. You learn what works, what talking points work, how to deal in debates That's how you improve, you get better. You have to start And you have to see You have to see effectively like a way, you need to an entry point And Zach is offering that, right Zach is offering that he is that voice for this cause It's going to start something. And we if we follow it, who knows where that will lead But if we sit on the couch, do fucking nothing Th then we only have ourselves to blame When you when you are getting rounded up into the camps Right I am joking, I'm not a fearonger it's joke. but when you are getting round up into the camps And you're like man, I wish I wish we did something. You sat there reading your marks And you're like, you know, going through the theories. go, finally I finished page forty six thousand I finished Our shit man's in a fucking camp Butike let's just get active, let's just actually do something. before we need everything in place It's not just that EBA, it's a material infrastructure too. thinkink of all the organisation from Corbyin times that were just were just lost to the ether. Yeah, exactly Yeah, he will start building up the actual grassroots of the cause like the people even things like fucking email lists of people that are Smpect to our cause. you can get out like, okay, we're going to march a protest here. We've got a speaking conference here He will start building that by just simply starting doing a movement So yeah. Jimmy, if there's thank you so much for the dono, Sam. I appreciate that. If there's time to reach out to Gary and and other online platforms to unite coup and support the greens is now and never Yeah I was chatting with Gary last night I curious what his opinion is, Maybe I'll give him a message at some point. But I think, you know, we can't all be back like we just have to do something have to do sign it D't let pererfect be the enemy, good or you know,atever the f fourour years, we have plenty of time to get a Jimmy. Yeah yeah, but we need to start sooner than later. Yes So send to all the message Britain lives and marches on Yeah. Okay Um, why is there a Russian flag in my chat seemeems like not the place to put a Russian vagment. Stalmer currently has the best foreign policy Well, I mean, he's supporting Israel. like he's giving arms to Israel and't? so That's definitely not a completely Chere in foreign policy is it I definitely like what he's saying on Ukraine he's also being fucking soft on. U He's been a little bitch boy on Trump. So I don't know if I agree that Stom has the best foreign policy I'm of the opinion that the only way forward is to acknowledge immigration and wealth inequality at the same time because for most I say like the thing I say about immigration Adress the actual genuine critiques. hand the handling of asylum seekers is not done right. and that is not because of asylum seekers, it is because of our system that is trying to be reluctant against taking them in. So we're making it harder We don't want to make safe channels We don't want to let them get to work quickly. We want to be really strict on them, but by being so strict on them, we are literally causing all the problems Leaving the EU gave us the small boats By being tough on asylum seek claims means that we have twoo year fucking waiting list And so you have refugees that sit in hotels for two years that costs us money. and they can't work. They're not allowed to do anything. And that is not because they're here, they're coming here. It iss because we are being reluctant to just accept the reality. The thing about Broom, one of the things that pisses me off about Broom is in Britain We like suffer from wanting our cake and eating it. We just we never want to accept any compromise in life ever And by doing that, we end up getting the worst of everything We never want to be like, look, here's the reality. If we don't deal with this crisis, you're going to cause loads of states in the Middle East and Africa, etcetera to collapse. and then you're going to cause instability in the global community you're going to cause more opportunities for dictators, warlords, terrorists. They're going to hold supply chains hostage. They're going We don't want that crazy insane world. The reason the world worked post World War two is because we kept an international order Obviously, we didn't do it great everywhere And there were problems But if you just completely give up on that idea You are going to create the foundations and refugees are a big part of that If you allow all the refugees So leave one country because there's some shits popped off And they go to the next country, which is obviously what they will do. You could very likely collapse That next nation If you look at the Congo Civil War, there was two of the bastards It was like there was a Rwandan genocide P people escappeed Rwanda, they went to Congo. Congo is a poor nation. They did not have the infrastructure and the ability to look after all the refugees But they took them all And Congo ended up in a civil war So if you think where as a global community, this is the reality. There are these wars going on in these nations that by the way, we probably had some involvement in at some point and we caused some of the instability that led to it. If we if we don't recognize that That is happening And if we don't do anything about that as an international community The world will be fucked and all the things that we want, stability, free trade, etceter, will come to an end If we can't accept that by sharing out the load of asylum seekers and then being smart about it, get them into work and get their families hit Becauseuse a lot of the time the ones that get to Britain, they can't bring their families because women, children, old people, they're not going to be able to cross the channel So it's like so obvious that you just need to be a fucking adult and actually deal with it. but we never want to deal with anything. We always want our cake and we want to eat it. And what ends up happening is we get all the worst outcomes from everything. is the sickness in British politics shhort termism and Never, never any pragmatism. There's never pragmatism It's all ideological. It's all this. This is how it has to be. We should not have to do this. It's like it's never let man, I know, it's a bit tough We should probably have to fucking actually be adults and deal with it likeike Yes what pissed me off man? Like we need to start actually thinking about how to do things properly, rather than just closing our eyes and shutting our ears, we have to go right, this is the situation. this is the facts on the ground How do we deal with that? in the best way that's the least disruptive and the most beneficial to us all. And maybe you'll find there's actually some benefits to it. we can even think of making that point. you have to get people to understand that The migrant crisis, like the refugee crisis is a real thing caused by real wars that were that we were involved in a lot of the time What was the swattist prrime Minister? A future sw? Britain Britain Britain above all else in the world. What about Briten above, but you probably absolutely adore America. I bet you love Trump If it came into it, Bowser. and Mr. Starzer. Starzy. You act to swear your allegiance to Starmald Trump. Who would you do it, Mr. Britain above all the world s bit impure, unadulterated facts, Jimmy. That's what you get here on the Jimmy the Giant Show. By the way, I think we're going to level up the show at some point. I feel we're to get a good camera, proper background, be bit more organized, maybe have some topics, maybe have some interviews, maybe some debates. Yeah he did miss it. G out of the lub is that? Is that the labers in you were makeaking? you were laying a fucking cold sixteen on some dirty fucking baseline Or is that the lab is in you work as you're a scientist That was a young quet on my question bisexual light and soon come It's gonna be the most bse seion I don't know what that means, but Why don't you use yourself from your videos?s goodood question It is literally just that Uh it's like, I don't know, I don't know You know what it is? It's that my computer is here in the corner and that's over there. So it's a little bit difficult And that camera, it's quite zoomed. So if I was to use that as a webcam it' be pro too zoomed, maybe B the know I wanted it to it look cool Bowser, you defeated Bowser, you married. Yeah, I defeated him Be he wanted for a second he said Britain above all else And I said, wouldould you submit loyalty to Starma? W two. Trump And he was like f. I guess it's not Britain abbove all. I guess I have this Lord Trump. Ionest to say it's Lord Trump We need more gear, don't worry Can you get some ventrloquist puppets Muppets designed to look like Fage? That's quite funny. That is quite funny Yeah, perhaps, I lie that idea I like that idea down and put that on my notes. Well done, that's a luxury position You got in tooim in joice tonight. I always I'm always I always get ideas from other people. L people will be talking and I'll just go, Ohh, that's an idea for a video never give credit. Now, I give them credit to their face. Hey, Jimmy, is it possible for us to create our own organisational movement or lobbying group that could influence politics? What kind of is that in a way is movementforward. com or stop the Tories Bowser' that. We want Stallin out. Bowser, Bowser, Bowser. You're here. we all see it. Everyone sees it. you're here. answer this question You said You said Britain above all Now I ask you submit your loyalty to Lord Starmer or submit your loyalty to Trump If you don't answ that quest you a little bitch brring back British political It's a weird spin of satire, but it actually works like I read it and I got you meant the old stuff What's the old stuff I What do I do different thoughtoughts on current austerity in GCC was GCC JC sc guys G M Star isn't Britain. A there you go' the loophole There's the loophole So wait, wait Can I hear this best bloat? You would submit your loyalty to Lord Trump and not Lord Stalmer So you'll say in America above B Britain and above all, okay, we need you to fight for Brit. I'm not fighting for this country Then you're not Britain above all. because then what is Britain What is Britain at that point You don't support Britain at that point What you're saying is right wing politics above all that's why youre submitting Lord Trump Jimmy, he said Trump only because stara Hatesp. He literally admitted it How like just in your head, like come on, I know deep inside of you right. I know you're deep in them fucking algorithms and I know Twitter is like just in your head But like, just really think about that. You said Britain above all But you said you would submit your loyalty to Trump over stammer really think that contradiction through All right Think about it your way of looking at the world doesn't make sense, Do it? L literally doesn't doesn't Makes sense You're not Britain above all, because in this situation, you're America above Britain, because in this situation, which is that there isn't some fucking insane right winger in charge Hm Now look, about okay, E Star of his recent speech has come to realize the real concerns of working people and I stand them completely middle class YouTubers are disconnected. No, we would just talk about it in the thing There are smart ways and bad ways of doing immigration And a lot of the conversation around immigration, the legitimate conversation, which I'll say is a legitimate conversation, is around people who have There is an explosive element in some regards of taking people from poor countries to come and do our shit work that we don't want to do. There is some, there is some to that, because the argument the right wingers make which they don't believe in, they're making convenient argument Bear that in mind. is that if they didn't bring that labor in, arguably the wages will go up and maybe the work conditions will go up to attract British workers. if British workers are being stubbn they don't want to it arguably I'd say it probably wouldn't But might, it might do Um And I'm saying, well, okay, if that's the situation, then raise raaise the minimum wage and improve working conditions That Do that or if it's in industries if you really want to prioritize British talent and I'm not against that. British skills, Big one read like push him British people to be skilled and you know, work in industries that are Uful then why is the conversation never about retraining or doing a big training drive on some of these jobs that like engineers or what's one what's the big one they say is like welding. We're not very we don't have many welders in this country. Why is there not a big state led initiative to retrain people into welded so that you can employ British Why do they just complain about migrants So I will give you that. like I would I would totally if you want to if you want an amicable midground with a leftist on immigration Say to me that you are going to a ton of funding into to retrain him of like local British people retrained, so they are skilled so they can do the jobs that we have shortages All you look say ban the migrants that are doing the jobs that we have shortages in And I'm saying, that is absolutely insane Asolutely insane because then we just have massive labor shortages and then we're going anythingything done will take ten times longer If you have a project you need a welder in, now you have like, I don't know how many welders are in this country, but now youve got a fight your cont you got some big, I don't know when you might weld, say you're building a house orign. there's probably some welding in that Now you have to wait till I don't know, the five blokes that out of world in this country are free. And so every project just now becomes longer and longer So why do you like never, ever, ever, ever argue for retraining. You never argue for it because Deep in your hearts and I really think you need to admit this. like foreign people I'm sorry I'm sorry because I'm not against if you're really being genuine about, you know, wanting to train up British workers. I'm not against that But I never, ever, ever hear you not say that You never, never talk about it So I don't I don't really engage with your conversation. Like I will if I was talking to Zach, I will have this conversation because there are genuine things you can talk about But when it's for you li, we're not talking in good faith because you don't want to fix any problem. You don't like foreign people. And so unless I end up at the endgame of Banning foreign people, I will never appease you. so why should I fucking try it You're never going to be happy Do you want Britain to be remilitarized? L, I'm not against a strong British army. like I'm not Maybe I separate. I don't think you even leftists in general against that Maybe there are some I'm pray for the arrmy. like defefitely. I think it perhaps I would be You know, I'd be wary of how I'm very for it. like I think Its a good way of convincing right wingers in Kinsey economics because The truth is about the military, it's one of the best ways of training people up. It's like What we want is the state to fund university for free. University should be free in this country Right wingers will go, no, because that's communis. But then if I say, how about, you know We give him a gun Call of duty, camel up the thing, put a red dot site on top Now can we train him, you guys? Yes You can now we can give them education So look, Brv, if it makes you look except that actually the state can actually do something and state investment is actually very good. then I'm fine with that, man, I'm fine with that. And if it means we have a strong military I we're not weak on the global stage and I' for that Jimmy, how is it culturally enrichment at one point two million net a year I don't I ask a strange question. What do you mean culturally Wh when you talk about culture enrichment? You think we got one point two million? And I swear it isn't one point two net, myents whatever You think the reason we bring in migrants is for cultural enrichment? Is that where you think migration is You think that's why You think it has nothing to do with trying to up like keep the NHS afloat because you know, we're privatizing it, they pay shit wages and British people aren't trained in some regards aren't trained and just won't take those jobs Um so we're bringing in migrants to keep. the aging population because there was a baby boom, I don't know if you heard about it many years ago there was a baby boom And there's a lot of old people and every generation had less and less kids. It's our generation, there aren't enough young people who are the most productive in the economy and pay the most taxes. I There aren't enough to afford to keep the old people alive So I don't know about culture enrichment, Bother, I love a fucking curry. I love a curry. I'll take a curry, but I'm more interested that they keep our economy from absolutely collapsing overnight. becausecause that's how we've created our economy because you lot right wingers the idea of state investment You hate it. You cannot for a second imagine a world in which we tax rich people fairly and fun things for the people There go Sorry, ranting about migrants, but it just pissed me off because it's so It's always so u It's so bad faith, like you don't really believe a lot of the stuff you say you do. You just find good talking points that make people go, Oh yeah, maybe immigration is bad and you never think it through because your actual core belief typically is you just don't like foreign people And that'sre not going to get me agree with you on that. You're not going to get me agree with you Yeah, they don't care about that issue. It's only used a justification for xenophobia. Yeah Z's been on, it was really good. I will upload that on the second channel. So go subscribe to the second channel What do you think about Star' speech on the migrants? Brav, J just insane He's just an absolute I have lost o G good whe with Star at this point. The somehow He can appease right wing voters by being Temu Nigel Farage And I'm just going to put the second channel on there to pin that Absolute irony when you scroll through the comments, right? let me try and find this When you scroll through the comments of Starmer saying all this weird shit about migrants and now being a stranger in your own land and all this shit All right, so Let me see if I can find it. Under the Tory is only one million people can . Thereere we go. So right. So he's trying to appease a certain demographic. peopleeople like you look the sort of the more rightight wing is the ing about migrants in this chat. He's trying to appease you, right? He wants you to vote for him. So he's saying a shit about being a stranger in your own country and all this, right? and So these people, he's so desperate to get onside This is what they have to say about him. like when he says this shit, right Um Under the Tories, nearly one million people came to the UK overseas between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty three. My Labour government is going to take back control of the border as it goes on to I think say know strangers in our own country Pan Gvernment had im and we will controlab. Where is it As about Billy Sorry. to take batons they paper today. Where's the bit we talks about being anyyway, whatever This is about the immigration. Under Kistan, one million girls have been raped by Muslim gangs Why are you protecting rapers and murdereers? okay You of all people, this is not going to end well. Contue to meet with the one who had the bag on the table, I don't know. this one thinks he does cocaine with Macron in front of press Um They go you got one. you got one American bot here that agrees with you Has it still not gone through to you that you're constant whining and blame shifting among reasons people think you're incompetent, more gaslighting to get you need to get on with the programe This is like these people. who like none of them have been convinced These these people who he so desperately wants on board. This is who he's trying to get Is' Tammo and Nigel Farage for like absolute certainty. These are who he's trying to win over and look at every comment's just shitting on him He tried to win him over Where is the we have to get the strangers in our own country Do this directly to investment I hate him so much. He's such a prick comes a but leton proposeal. This white paper will When you don't ask how I want to vote Definite There's not a chance on hell in how on in a boat for stoma. Yeah. So he like about full screen So he's try to win you L over and it doesn't work. because he's not Nigel Farge He's literally all he's doing is turning people like me, right and the many people that are like me off of him And we're like Yeah, we also exist, right? We also exist and we're actually the ones who voted for labor. Um I don't know if you forgot about that. And he's turning all of us off of labour. Well done mate, well done. I hope you enjoy U picking up one vote from I don't know, some Twitter bot that has a British king in his the avatar. callede Defend the West Britannica forever I hope you get that one vote, broother because you lost m and I have an audience of people. and probably lost all of our votes. So I hope you're a fucking happy mate. You're not that it's not about there's no problems of immigration. There's no way that we need to do things smarter. It's not about that is about what are you actually, what are you if I read between the lines What are you talking about You're talking about things to appease right wing voters. You are not talking about tax en rich people, you are not talking about fixing inequality So you do not talk about the things, you do not really talk about pooverty in this country that much. You do not talk about the things that actually we believe in All right, I'm just to read between the lines and it's not about, yeah, you can't ever pass anything about immigration to make it fair or blah blah blah It's not about It's about are you doing anything that's actually left wind? and you're not For me, as average young person in this country, I'm looking at you and I cannot see the difference between you comes For me, viant for you. Farage U Whver Kemy badn not I don't see a difference. I don't see a difference m So you've lost us, you've lost us, GG., I hope you're fucking happy. He lost us. And now we're talking to people like Zach from the Greens And I'm sure more independence are going to pop up and I'm sure Corbyn's going to start You know, grow in and Maybe he joins the Greens. That's going to be a bit of a damaging thing for you lot So you fucked it, man, you fucked it. And like the thing is labour has all The beautiful background, the history. I mean, Let's ignore Tony Black But you know, they have the story of being the first like Super successful workers' rights movement man. what they did and it's so sad. It's like A once great band just it's like Kanye. It's like Kanye When we were young, we all loved Kayer. The man was so creative, so interesting, and now he's a Nazi. That's a shame. Why do they all become Naz What is it? What is the draw towards being a Nazi Anyway U It's like, yeah, this once great thing that has fallen so far. and It's hard for us to let go because there is summit. There's the Clement Alees in that, you know They were all There are people, there are feelings and achievements as the NHS social hasident Beverage report did But they haven't been that for a long time. We have to accept that they're not that anymore It makes no sense. Thank you so much optimistic, Nihilist Don't know it. It makes no sense as a strip. But there here. It makes no sense as a strategy, both Labour and Ties are trying to be farraage light, but right wingers will only want full fat fararage. fat fararage. Opposing his policies is not how you win. not chasing a big up for the dono, completely agree. absolutely right. Yeah, you can't convict. Yeah, it's cult personality around Farage. It's a cult of personality and I'm sorry, Mr. Starmar It's not you. you don't have any personality. So you're not going to win them and cult a personality You need to win on delivering things that will improve people's lives. And you're not Mrter Charisma. So Soome right wingers, I'm going gonna just change the title because I think people host. Little chit chat ch Ashame U But his father was a toolmaker. Yes, that is true. His father did make some tools and one of them is called Kistarma. Yeah I've said it once I'll say again, Nigel validates closet racists without being explicitly racist. Yeah. that's it. like he courts he knows how to court Um He knows how to court the racist elements because racism is kind of a feeling, It's a feeling that exists. It's not like about caght in it's not like combat eighteen or like specific far right groups. It's like within humans, we're complex animals and we have a variety of feelings Xenophobia is a feeling that can arise when you feel left behind or not cared about by your country especially when faced with migrants into the country because you S Starmer'ad was a filmaker, Um Beuse you see like, I don't know, you're being told that their lives are great. It's not being a refugee in this country is not a good life But anyway, you're being told that because there's so many degrees of separation from you and them, you don't know the ins and outs of their life, so you can just believe what you're told xenhobia is a feeling of dissatisfaction and being betrayed by a political establishment U xenophobia comes out of that, right? It's a feeling. It's not about trying to court like, yes, specific far right groups or something although that will happen. U So what also like that same thing that xenophobia can come from can also create solidarity. When you start to realize that actually your life is just as equally shit. as the refugee and the migrant work in a low paid job You all have you all are affected by the exact same power imbalance and the billionaire class that completely ransack our whole country You are both affected by that. and your only way defeating that power hierarchy that has E just read anything in history. You'll see the same story time and time again. Very, very, very rich elites and very poor people ordinary people, the majority and that dynamic isn't going to fix, you get rid of the immigrants. It will not fix. That is the problem, right? When there's too much wealth concentrated too few hands, it just imbalances society. It creates an unworkable society economically, socially Politically, it creates A side that can't function Because if they have so much power They can just influence politics So although fiveive million of us might vote one way It doesn't matter or feel one way. It doesn't matter because their money outweighs your votes. They can easily, even if you voted for something, they could pay that politician enough money to not do it That concentration of power is just insane too much leverage. We have zero leverage this dynamic is that is the problem. Um that's what we need affix. We need to be real about that and accept a certain percentage of the voters are unwinnable. Yeah, yeah. And you know what? this is my belief. ain't about winning people over really. It's about activating people. I'm starting to see that. There is there is a there is an element of people on the turn. I was one of them We can win over and I do I will do I keep doing to do that. But actually what I'm starting to realize it's more about activating. It's more about getting people who don't vote to vote for you. There are a big amount of people that don't vote. There are a lot of people that voted in the twenty nineteen election for Corbyn who just didn't turn up in twenty twenty three because they didn't see a left wing option Um And actually yeah, people were less having a lower and lower turnout over a lot of elections on We need less workers' rights, no minimum wage How do you get to a point where you truly believe that like When you analyze history, the periods of time where there was none of the workers' protection, no minimum wage Do you think they were good periods of time U do you actually think because you obviously you don't or if you do, you've some you've, I don't know, I'm sure there's been some Good pseudo history that said actually it was great back then and all the academics alike. You need workers' protections. I don' I can't even be I can't even believe that we're in a position where that is even something someone actually thinks These algorithms are fucked man. They arere fucking's brains up It' making people so stupid People like to believe the problem is the person that's beneath them or powerless rather than the huge powerful billionaires. Yeah, you know, he actually made a good point, Zach on the whole Nimbiism thing. It was like, yeah, look, I know there are some probably cases, edge cases where like People have voted against stuff based it on green arguments. But why do we talk about that more than the one point five million housing Pots of land that been approved for housing just not being built because developers see that if prices of houses are going up, it makes more sense to delay and delay and delay whilst keeping the housing supply short to make prices go up Why are we not talking about that? They're actually powerful. That fucking newt in a bush Well, that rare species of bird is quite a bit less powerful than the billionaire multinational development firms that are deliberately not building in order to in order to suppress the supply of housing Bowser. So Bowser The enemy is within Yeah, there's definitely one in this chat, mate. There's definitely one I I would I would love for you to realize Bowzi you actually probably have all of the same problems caused by all of the same shit as many of the people in the chat. And if you actually just realized that if you worked with these people in chat toward tax towards tax en rich people You could probably fix some of these problems. but instead you've just been sold some absolute Nonsense Unfortunately will make your life worse forever because if you follow that politically, you're going to vote for the Leopards Eat your Face byie There's a few J me, but they're not loud as Bowser. Bowser, you've been called out by everyone here including the host, but you feel special The reform L can be one of ye, ye there is some, there is some There is some There are some people that could be won over. I agree This misunderstanding from Starmer comes from how you do it. You don't lean into the antimmigrant stuff. instead we to sht economic discussion to inequality. abbsolutely. but they don't want to do that because it involves taxing the rich and they are the rich. so Jimmy, are you going to stand for election No, nan He probably thinks we're awoke Yps to work woke up this morning. That's how fucking woke I am Are we discussing the immigration announcement? we'veready done it a little bit. Are you an etno nationalist? pushes. Um, Yeah, the reform UK voters just received their leopards just receivive their leopards eat in my face byie I please nt tell you watch Karl Kolinsky. Yeahah, love I love Karl Kolinsky He's so good. He's getting better. He's one of the ones. he's been around a minute and he is continontinuous to gamebow 'd love to chat with him to be honest who we should run for Parliament question. Was the economic boom in the forties, fifties and sixties a myth? No, it wasn't economic boom. Was it this utopian period? No, but we were progressing and improving the world living conditions for Ordinary people got much better. But it isn't this like, you know, it wasn't you're running around the streets and everyone was happy and holding hands. it wasn't was improving as opposed to getting worse which is now Kolk Kolinensky has always been good. yeah, yeah P I just think's got Bell. justust wish he could be a bit better on foreign policy but his grow overall thoughts on this, one of the most notable changes is that employees will now have the right to not only unfairly dismiss people do they He wasa One of the most notable changes in the employees is that employees will now have the right to not be unfairly dismissed from. Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw about the employee protection, but Yeah, and The thing about labour is like They're centrist,' the problem of centrist is that they will never address the root cause of the problem So they will try and tweak things around the edges And they'll try and change small little things that might make your life. zero point three percent better and you won't notice it because your life is getting one hundred percent worse by the big systemic structures So like, you know, there are things that Labour do that are good. And if you listen to a different bias, you'll hear some of the things that they do that are good It's good to do that But it We have to realize the actual Um, the gravity of the situation we're in and Seaking around the edges is not going to stop the fucking for a large wave Are you a kneeCAP fan? I do like yeah, I do like kneeCAp not all of their songs, but some of them Obviously some of the shit they're saying I think I know it's like they're going to say it's in jest or it's in character, but I think some of the more Kill your MP type shit. I don't with that. I think that's being provocative for to little ends, it's like just stop oil, like frrowing paint on a priceless pch pitcher. too what ends are you doing that A you going to win people over I think so Or are you going to gain power? I don't think so They're centrist, ye, but labor just looking forward not around say they're looking their wr own places where you collaborate with different bers? I did want to have a chat with him. It was a long time ago. I said it And I would still have a chat with him for sure, but it's been a while and I've got so many people I need to chat to I just don't do this very often so Do you speak to Muslims or do you look at TV News Why speak to Muslims when you can look at Jb News? That's my argument I'm sorry I actually want my art to be provocative. Yeah, I know you're saying Good good little, good little rebuttal there. I like that. I just think killing MPs too much just now' not Not a vibes, but you know, I think every you mean ic perspective, I am talking more from a political perspective. I'm going to run an ad make some bread I'm going to hop off sh with it All right, there you go Let's just ads in Minecraft and your videos are profound. Oh, thank you me Appreciate U all right I'm all for freed of speech, of course sur violence is where Id rwather that yeah agreed. Yeah, we gotta have some moral I just dont see that and Allright lads and lads. and Ladx I love you all. I'm a hop off, hope you're well, stay sane, stay strong, unionize Do what you can G goo join the Greens. Fuck it, whyy not? Go join the Greens, back Zack. Let's see if Zack wins, that's going to be good We have a voice in politics A stands for Taxing the rich, a mainstream voice in politics that stands for tax and the rich. That's something I like the sounds of. So go back Zack sees the hs of productuction Ov he' p twenty f f. Oh Godd, bows are out fucking up I'll be out. I'll be living somewhere far away Pace lads, Avigagon Bye by