Writing Process and Imposter Syndrome

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Get the new fix and fall tariff from British Gas, where prices can only slide down. If energy prices climb up, no worries, you'll be fixed for two years. But if later the market falls, so will your tariff. A win-win. Sorted automatically by us . Price cap? Taken care of. Fix your prices today. Search British Gas Fix and Fall. Ts and C's eligibility and limitations apply. Price review based on the off-gen price cap after twelve months. See Britishgas.co.uk slash verify for more. Well, conratgulations . You did it. What for? The big one. Big what is the Pepsi Max? No. You ever been on the Pepsi Max? What's the Pepsi Max? First time I used the C bomb. Pepsi Max? The big one. The big one ? Well, you brought it up. Yeah, I'm talking about a big achievement, but what are you talking about? The big one, the Pepsi Max at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. Don't know what that is. What? Never been to Blackpool. Me and you are going out on the town and the town being Blackpool Pleasure Beach. Really? Yeah, I'll even ride you on a donkey. So you go to this massive ride, you go on it, and then what happens? You get off it? Yeah. That's how rides work. Yeah, no, no, no, God, God, God, God, got the business. Gossip it I indulge your anecdote that you brought up . Huh? First time I ever said the C bomb was on the uh Pepsi Max. Oh, tell me about it. Well I went on it and then I said the C bomb then. It's like trying to have a fucking like conversation with a caricature of a teenager is ridiculous. You brought it up. I'm saying well done on the big one. The big achievement. I'm saying it's about something else, the big one, the big achievement. What did you bring up? What you said. You are not now Joe Marler, you're a BAFTA award-winning Joe Marler. I'm not a BAFTA award winning Joe Bayer. No, you're a BAFTA award-winning Joe Marler . Celebrity traitors won a BAFTA this week. Yeah, well done them. Yeah, well done you, mate.. It wasn't me You fucking were. You were in it more than anyone else. I wasn't yeah . You were in it loads . We're only doing this because you were in it. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah but I did w yeah but it wasn't me, was it? Who was it then? The people that make it. I think congratulations anyway, and thank God it won the BAFTA, because that sort of gives us a little bit more legitimacy for doing this as well, doesn't it? Jake, it is a big week for you, isn't it though? Final week of what? Final week of Saturday Night Live UK. SNL UK. Yeah, I've been there every year. Fucking loved watching you on that, mate. Oh, thank you, mate. I've loved doing it. But nothing brings me more joy than spending time with you, brother. Is that true? Because I was actually uh at television centre the other day, wasn't I? And I texted you to see if you're about and it took you seven or eight hours to get back to me saying, Yeah, I'm here, brother, where you at? It's funny that you say that, isn't it? Because um I remember actually asking you if you wanted to do something with me a while ago, and I texted you, are you free on this date in June? And you never got back . So what's worse seven hours before you get back to a friend or never getting back to a friend? Let's let's put it to our lovely team. Guys, give me a cheer if you think it's worse to take seven hours to respond to a text. Give me a cheer if you think it's worse just to never respond to a text. Fuck it, they don't fucking cheer for anything. Do you know what? I'm gonna new category. Give me a cheer if you work on the show but don't engage in any sort of vocalized referendums. Woo! Yeah, I think that's the worst one. The bloody hell's going on over it. Yes, I think they're more interested to know. Who we've actually got What did you say? I said I do love you though, brother. In what way? I just feel like I've I've really it's been a very special thing to uh do this but also make uh probably one of my closest friends in the world a new . Yeah, no one was ready for that, were they? Wow . Fucking hell. You right with that? Can you handle that? No. You can't? You can't wait you can't handle that. No. Alright, well. Take it. Do what you can with it. I think it's okay to tell someone what you want from them, and what I want from you is, I don't know, a little bit of affection, but that's okay. Um and on that note, I suppose, oh whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you don't come to this side of the office very often. Wow. Oh, wow . Wow. Do you know what? While I've got you here, on the subject of asking people what you want from them, we'd actually like you, the viewer and listener , to do something as well for us. And I think it's okay to ask for what you want. We want you to help us grow this show by liking, by subscribing. Yeah, on YouTube. On YouTube. Yeah, and commenting because we've built a we'll see you now, show. We're doing something here, guys. We're building a community of friends. We really are doing something. Why don't you why don't you jump on the big one with us? Don't know. No. Yeah, it's good. It's very good. But I just wanted you to know that I took on board what you said. Um it's kind of you. I struggle with accepting that. I struggle with any sort of Does it look like I'm sat on his lap? Does it ? Does it look like I'm a ventriloquist dummy. I' Ive've really enjoyed getting to know you. Yeah, I've enjoyed getting to know you. Um but that's it. And I find it really hard to give myself to people in the fear of being uh betrayed. Mm-hmm. Uh I'll never betray you. And I want to believe that . Mm-hmm . But I just I do find it tough to actually do that. I can only prove that to you through what I do, from not through what I say. And if that takes time, that takes time . Are you closing your eyes? Because I'm closing mine. Definitely. Okay. Alright. Cool. Should we do the guest bit? Do the guest bit. Right, enough of that. Enough of the enough of the bonding. Who've we got in today's chair, Jake? We've got someone who I think is a little bit unlike anyone we've had. Oh, that's good. That's a good that's a good start. I think that we've got someone who embraces failure. Good. We've got someone who is an accomplished writer. Oh. Don't think we've ever had anyone who's quite been in that space of of being a novelist, a very accomplished novelist. We've also got someone who is um far more accomplished podcaster than either of us. Excellent. Not hard though, so that's not the best thing to shout about. Um let me give you one last clue and just say just one look at you . And I know it's gonna be Elizabeth Elizabeth , Elizabeth, Elizabeth , Elizabeth, Elizabeth, Elizabeth A, Elizabeth , Elizabeth Day,. E Elilizzababeteth,h Elizabeth Day. Elizabeth Day, everybody! Elizabeth Day! Woo! Her podcast is called How to Fail. How to fail. Biggest failure in your life? Well, every day I feel like a failure. I feel like I'm failing my eldest son at the moment with how I'm trying to parent or not parent. Um that time where I checked I that checked to see if I shit myself from afar. That was a fail, wasn't it? Because it turned out that I still had half hour to go in the car and I didn't have any wipes. So that's a fail. I wouldn't feel about that. I I once did a similar thing. I woke up, did this little similar thing, it was a little splodge that came out. Yeah. And I was living with an ex-girlfriend at the time. She woke up. And I'm thinking, God, how am I gonna explain this? And I just said the cat the the cat must have um done a little bit of a whoopsie in the bed. You blamed a cat shitting in the bed? Yeah let's get her in. Janet, please could you send in Elizabeth Day ? Yes. Thank you Elizabeth Day everybody ! Hi. Hey Oh sorry . Hello. Wait, but we hugged earlier, so now it's like No, we haven't met yet. We have this is the first time we've met, isn't it, Elizabeth? I love meeting you for the first time. Janet Janet said you didn't hug, so what can I say? Did she? Yeah. Well, that's not true. Janet started getting very jealous of other people showing you affection. She told me to stop hugging you as well. I don't know what's going on there. It's not just women then. No no no no. Something going on. I do think she's in love with you. She just hasn't found the words yet . I don't know how to deal with that. I do I do I get very uncomfortable around her well people people but yes Janet definitely Janet um how are you? I'm so good thank you. Oh so good. Yeah I'm ri so excited to meet you. Meet me? Yes. Oh, what about Jake from SNL UK? I was very excited to meet him and then I was even more excited when I realised who it was. There was that moment, that light bulb . Oh my god, it's you! It was He's also wearing an excellent suit. And you're wearing an excellent jacket. So we've all got the tailoring memo. I've got such a good feeling about today. I don't know what it is. You look it's quite gangster because Say because of the shoulders. No, the pinstripes, isn't it? I thought that was a traditional thing. It is. Gangsters wear pinstripes. Can we start at the beginning? Yes. With uh the intake questionnaire. Please. Uh full name. Elizabeth Anne with an E, Melanie Day. What's the difference between Anne with an E and Anne without an E ? Well, people who have Anne in their name are very specific about whether there's an E or a not, and it generally pertains as to whether you liked Anna Green Gables. So there was it there were these books, the Anna Green Gables books, and the character who I had a massive affinity with growing up because she was sort of stubborn and unlovable. She was always very specific about the fact that her name was spelt with an E because I think she felt that it was Classier. Okay. And is that how you feel as well? I just feel an affinity with Anna Green Gables. I don't necessarily think it's classier, but I do think it looks nicer. Do you prefer um Elizabeth, Liz, Beth, Betty, Lilibut, Lily , Sarah, what nickname do you prefer? I love this question. I prefer Elizabeth. The whole name? The whole name. And if it was to be shortened? If it has to be shortened, some of my very close friends call me Lizzie. Lizzie. Which I think is sweet. I.E. or why? I.E... Because Y is too trashy. I wouldn't say trashy . I just feel like But you'd say common. Oh horrible. Terrible. Elizabeth Day. I just don't I think I don't like words that end with a Y. It feels like there's not enough of a surname ends with Y. Great point. Star sign . Scorpio. Scorpio Sorry. Sort of, yeah. It's the one star sign when you say it, people go, ooh. Yes. But we have a fervent sense of loyalty. So if you do us wrong, we will never forget. I've now learnt to forgive, but I will never forget. I have grudges that are so old I don't even remember what they did wrong, but I just know that that person slighted me in some way. I'd like to explore that a bit later. Hang on. Give, not forget. No, forgive, do forget. We're also devastatingly charismatic and we're meant to be the the the sexiest sign of the zodiac, so I mean what can I say ? Well done you I think you just did say it. Yes, I know. I mean it's been said of us. So who am I to protest? Occupation. Oof . Writer and podcaster. Who's the biggest celeb you've met? Clint Eastwood. Wow. Yeah. He was amazing. It's like he's in the room. Hey. Boy. For the audio listener, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do. Normally I normally have this sort of stuff covered, but I don't know what that was. He's the like your biggest celeb. Is is would i would Joe be the physically biggest celeb you've ever met? Well great question. Oh is that what that meant? No no no it's not. I'm just while we're on it, but I would just be curious to know. Who's physically the best biggest celebrity man . Probably Joe Marlock, but unless we're talking height. I have met Peter Crouch. Oh. Oh. Yes. He is very tall. He's pretty tall. Yeah okay. So you want him as the biggest, that's fine. Childhood Crush. Childhood Crush. Morton Harkett, lead singer of Aha . Aha No, that's that's Alan. Take on me. Take on me , take me on , take on me, I 'll be Again, like he's in the room. Neil ity Sorry, we're done. Can't be one of your own. Favourite book? Can't be one of Joe's either. No, okay. Favourite book? It changes, but I'm gonna say Bonfire the Vanities by Tom Wolfe. Bonfire of the Vanities. Yes. Bonfire of the Vanities. It's this like epic dramatic novel set in 1980s New York about a master of the universe, a Wall Street trader who does something terrible and accidentally kills someone. And then it unspools and you follow the trial and it was brilliant. Favourite hobby? I think hobbies are really overrated. Oh. Um watching reality TV, going to the cinema. I mean I I Would you go to cinema on your own? Yes. Love it. I love going to cinema on my own. We're friends. Jake, what about you? Cinema on your own. I would go to cinema on my own, yeah. Dinner on your own. Dinner on my own, definitely. Oh I think dinner's trickier. Oh it's trickier than the cinema. You can hide easier in the cinema. I love going for dinner on my own. Oh god. Oh god. Do you know what was really what was tough about this whole thing is that you guys were like, yeah, stuff on your own, yeah, stuff on your own. You say yeah to something on your own. I said, yeah, done it on my own, and you both went, oh, loser. And I was just trying to be honest with you, I'm not that passionate about any of those things on my own. I just sort of said it to join it with you guys. And then now suddenly I'm the weird guy in the corner who's eating on his own again for the fourth night in a row because he can't hold down a relationship. Wait, but w when you go for dinner on your own, do you take something do you take something to read or not lunch? Do you d or do you just Just a mirror. Just a mirror, I just look at myself. What's a reality show you'd love to take part in? The The Traitors. Oh, you'd like to do the traitors? I'd love to. Why? Because I You did all right out of it. Yeah. I think it's incredibly interesting psychologically . But I also think it has such a good spirit to it. Like the people who do traitors are doing it primarily for the love of the game, and there are very few reality TV shows that Any other ones? What about Big Brother? Old school or new school Big Brothers? Old school Big Brother, I think. I would have been good, yeah. The only thing that would bother me is that you can't take books in. So I wouldn't be able to read. What? Nerd. Yeah. I know like sorry. we're addressing that. We're addressed that that being shouted from your corner , from your corner. Nerd game scene. That is very voluntary. That is ridiculous. Out of everyone sat in this room, and there's nothing wrong with being a nerd, but anyone said the stereotype of a nerd is sandwich. I don't know where it came from. It was the the the the bully became the bully. I don't know what happened. I I thought it was sweet. Thank you. I would love to see in Big Brother, because I think the the the boredom and not being able to have access to the pen and the paper would lead to some sort of ingenious secret code. Because the codes that they use are so to talk to talk amongst each other are so basic they get found out so quickly. Yeah. Like they just use each other's initials basically and say, we've we've got a code. We've got a code. Whereas I feel like you would sort of craft something quite ingenious. Thank you. You're trying to compensate. I am, yeah, I very much am. I very much am. And you have, nerd . You know, I played a game with my friend s a couple of months ago, which was who is the oldest person alive that you would still have sex with? And I I chose Robert Redford and then he died. . We didn't But just chose and then clearly I I was like, oh I better not say now. So you don't want to play that game again? No, I think I've got too much power. Jake. I'd say with Cher. You think with Cher great est. That is a great call. Would yours be J Joane Fon da ? Joe. Use Jane Fonda. Oh. She used to do the exercise, the workout vids in the 1980s. She's a she's a kind of a I was minus ten. All right in the nineteen eighties. I know that's hard to believe. What year were you born? 90. That's annoying. What year were you born? 1978. What? Really? You're born in 78? Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. You look great. Thank you, that was so kind of you. What do you do? Do you do any biohacking? I don't have children. Okay, that helps. Yeah. Biohacking though? I don't do any biohacking. No. I I drink a lot of water . I have had salmon sperm injected into my face . Is that a regular treatment or a one-off thing that has regular. Regular. But like not that regular, a couple of times a year. A couple of times a year you put salmon juice. It is biohacking. You're right, it is biohacking. In your face or on your face. Someone does it. In underneath, under the epidermis. What with this What so they With a kind of needle and I think it do you call them Thank God. I thought someone got the salmon. No, and just jizzed it off. Yes, tiny little salmon penis, just no. Yeah. No. I mean that c it could be an option. It might make it cheaper. That is a great great point. And just The Salmon's gotta watch something to get himself . He's got to watch a video share . That's my new I I've been looking for a job. I want to be a salmon fluffer. Yeah, right. I can see you doing that. Uh last one, do you consent to being analyzed by someone who's not a real doctor? Definitely. Wow, the speed at which you did that. Okay, that's great. It's really good . Elizabeth, you know a lot about other people's lives, don't you? There we go. That's the recurring thread. We needed that. Seamless. You've studied celebrity failures on your podcast as well. How to fail. And you also started your writing career working on celebrity gossip columns. So we've got celebrity failures on your How to Fail podcast. You keep bringing back reality TV and your love for it. Would it be fair to say that you're slightly obsessed with the lives of other people? Holy obsess ed. Let's find out how deep this obsession goes then, shall we? Yes . Right, come on then. Let's do it. Let's dig into it. Um, how much do you really love reality TV? Like what what you into? What's your go-tos? What do you binge the most? The real housewives franchises. I think I watch every single one, have watched every single one from the beginning. They are peerless. Wha why? P hang on, peerless. Uh without comparison. They're just in a league of their own. And I think they're like that because they started off as fly-on-the-all documentaries. But how it started out was genuinely this guy had an idea, he lived in Orange County, he lived in a gated community full of sort of wealthy people, and he was intrigued by the women who often stayed at home and kept house for their rich spouse. And he pitched the idea of a documentary. And so it started off in a very traditional documentary format. That's the first season of The Real Housewives of Orange County. And then the footage just sat on a shelf somewhere, and a brilliant young producer called Andy Cohen picked up the footage, was like, Oh, there's something there, and The Desperate Housewives was a hit TV show at the time, and so he recut it and called it the real housewives. And that's the genesis of the show that we have today. But at its heart, what I find fascinating is how groups of people interact . And in this specific franchise, it's groups of women, and very often they are eccentric and camp and fabulous and exaggerated and awful and get sent to jail. But there's also all of this sort of quiet storyline going on underneath the surface which is about the power of female friendship or the power of accountability when you've done something wrong and I love seeing those relationships develop over time as well as being entertained by it. This is how passionate I am about reality TV. The way you've described it from the start of the housewives to the thing has made me go, fucking hell, you love this. I do. And it it's made because of the passion you've spoken about it, I'm like, well, I'm gonna go home and gonna start watching Housewives now. I'm so happy to hear that. I mean, there's also another point, which is at the time when I started watching Housewives, which was like 15 years ago, a lot of female roles for women forty plus were quite cliched or they were monthsy or the or the floozy stop . Exactly. Or the housewife. Yeah. And suddenly there are these women who are so multifaceted in their complexity. They can be brilliant and they can be awful and they're allowed to be. It was also the first place that I saw the reality of IVF portrayed for the first time when I was going through fertility treatment. And so for me, reality TV performs such an important function because yes, it's unbelievably entertaining, but so often we see ourselves in what we're being shown in a way that we don't always see in other parts of culture. Okay, so that's housewives obsession. Yes. That's your reality. What about some like reality TV best moments? What are like ones that stand out for you? Well, I do think, and I'm not just well I probably am just saying it because you're here. But the but celebrity traitors, the deno of celebrity traitors season one. Behave yourself. Sorry. I think you're doing it on purpose now. Because you know I have to do it every time. De nous montre. De nouement. De nouveau. Which that is now that's an easy thing. I've got the French as well, which is struggling with the English stuff. Is that what it comes from? Shakespeare invented seventeen hundred words. He one of them was bedroom. Really? But really like bedroom. He came up with bedrooms. Doesn't that make you go, oh fucking hell, he wasn't all that. But that was a cultural shift as well, because I don't think people saw that there were rooms designated for different things. It was just go where you can. The the hallway, I can believe this, the hallway was something that had to be invented in the 1500s. So before that, there was just room to room to room to room. There were no hallways. And there was an architect who was like, right, I think we're gonna put a bit of space between the rooms. Nerd! Ah yeah. Yeah, great . Yeah. But so but if there are separate bedrooms in a house without a hallway or a corridor, so they would just walk into each other's bedrooms. You just walk into the window room to room. That's awkward, isn't it? No, no, there's still walls. No, I not still other walls. If you're just walking, you have to get to the would it even have been a kitchen or just an open fireplace and if you'd have to get to the kitchen for a cup of cup of mead and you have to walk through your parents' bedroom and they're engaged in the act. Yeah. Yeah. Or well, or missionary. I think the missionaries came later, this was the 1500s. Good, that is very good. It's bad. He's back. He's back. I'm not eating alone tonight. Yeah. Kiwi . A great story, like Monsters Inc., stays with you forever. And Disney Plus is where you'll find your next great story. From the return of the award-winning hit series Rivals . Welcome to the naughty est show on television. To the unmissable crime drama high potential. Gotta dead body, gotta go. A lifetime of great stories awaits. This spring on Disney Plus. 18 Plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Why go small? When you can go grand. Meet the new voxel Grand Land Griffin. Striking alloys, sleek black roof, heated front seats, and 10-inch touchscreen. Everything you need for life on the move. Grand on style, grand on tech , grand on value. And during the voxel sales event, get a grand off the new grand and griffin or any other new voxel on top of all other offers. Search Voxel car offers. Offer to private individuals £1,000 including BAT saving on new car orders between 15th to 31st of May must be registered by 30th of June 2026. 18 plus T supply. Here's my theory. You're a bit of a voyeur. Mm-hmm. You like watching from afar. You like watching Yes. You're into your voye voyeurism. Is that right? Well fair. I I uh I think the word voyeur comes with certain attachments. It also I'm not like a peeping Tom , but I find it fascinating to observe people in order to understand them . But generally speaking, those people know that I'm observing them. Okay. So there's a concern there. Yes. But do you feel like you need to be a good observer of people to then be a good writer? Definitely. You don't think you could just be great at writing by just dreaming up shit on your own he ads, which obviously you do. Yeah. But you do it based on people you've observed or characters you've observed. I know exactly. I know what you're saying, and for the way that I write, I absolutely do need to observe real people. And even if I were to write a science fiction fantasy set in a completely alternate universe, I still believe that the only way that I can make my writing compelling and relatable and worthy of connection with the reader is by understanding how people act. Have you ever gone to Clapham Junction? Yes, sadly. And just sat there uh to watch people. Not Clapham Junction specifically to do that. I love watching people at airports, train stations, uh on the top deck of a bus. Yeah. I love that. Right. But I do think you've hit on something really interesting here because I as ironic as it is to say this in present company, I am an introvert and so I don't love loads of socialising. No. No. Fucking hell, I'm with you on that. It's kind of exhausting. Fucking hell, you need to like the social battery needs to be like fully charged. Totally. But the speed at which that drains for me is vroom. And I need to like take myself out and then just be like, right, I need five minutes, come back in. Not because I don't like the company I'm in or whatever. It's like I don't know, I just get exhausted with like, oh I feel I don't know, it's weird. Yeah, I feel exactly the same. And I think that obviously, I'm loads older than you, but the society in which I grew up wasn't that friendly to introverts, and so I learnt how to be extroverted if I needed to or to pretend to be, in fact, to pretend social like socialising. And so I know I'm good at it. It's a sort of skill that I've acquired. But exactly like you, I feel quite drained by it. So actually being able to observe and connect with people without directly having to engage is really meaningful for me. How much observing of people did you have to do for your new book? Yes. My book is called One of Us and it actually is about observation a lot of it. It's about rich people behaving badly. And it's like Maiden Chelsea. It's like love Maiden Chelsea. It's like the real housewives meets succession, meets the talents of Mr. Ripley with a dash of white lot us, I would say. And it's about why we fall in love with the people that damage us, but why we often elect them too. And it's told primarily from the point of view of this character, Martin, who has never felt that he fitted in. He's always struggled with his own sexuality. He's lived in denial of it for most of his life. And he gets a scholarship to a boarding school, and there he meets the wealthy, aristocratic, charming Ben Fitz morris, and he becomes kind of fixated on Ben and they become best friends, and then they have a massive falling out because of something that happens at university. And one of us opens with Martin being invited back into Ben's family fold. And he's not sure why he's been invited back in, but Ben is on course to become the next Prime Minister of the UK. Fucking hell. And he wants to tie up a lot of loose ends while Martin is hellbent on revenge . This is good, isn't it? I hope so. This is really good. This is really good. And there's a character in it as well , because I also wanted to look at the times that we live in and why so often we have in the recent past elected in my mind leaders who have no experience of what it is to live life as a normal person. They've But what if no one is putting themselves forward to lead that has got that experience of leading life as a normal person. Who the fuck are we meant to I that's part of the terrible problem. I'm not saying that that's any good. They're they're any good. I'm saying but that they're they're the only ones fucking putting themselves out there. Yes, and it's part of the issue is because we become so accustomed to those people putting themselves forward and then being elected into positions of power, we see that as the representation of power. So we so so we can't we become kind of acclimatized the idea that that's what a leader looks like. And very often these people who go to elite schools and then go to elite academic institutions and then sail into politics straight away and become career politicians, they've never questioned their own entitlement. They've always felt that they were born to rule. And so they think that's what a leader looks like too. They think they're destined for that. And that's put our politics in a really dangerous position, I think. Who which characters in your book are loosely based on real people then, if any? Yeah. I mean obviously they're all entirely fictional.. En Entirtirelyely . Completely fictional. It's a completely fictional book. Yes. Based on nothing real or no one real. Isn't that right, Jake? Yes, that's absolutely right, yes. I was definitely well, I was inspired, but okay, so I was inspired by something Margaret Atwood said to me. So she came on How to Fail. She's obviously a terrific writer, wrote Handmaid's Tale. And Hammaid's Tale is this dystopian novel about a terrible future. She said, but in the handmaid's tale, I didn't write anything that wasn't already happening or hadn't already happened in the world around us. And so that was the bar that I set for myself for one of us. So everything in one of us as ludicrous, satirical as it might feel, has happened. And there is one particular character called Richard Tate, who I had a lot of fun writing, who is an entirely self-aware, unself-aware Tory politician. He's just lost his front bench seat because he's been caught watching porn on his work computer. Has that actually happened? Yes it has. And um Track to pawn. Track to pawn. Track to pawn. Yeah. Yeah. What? Yeah. Neil Parish. Caught watching Trax Porn. What the fuck is tractor porn? Honestly, it's one of those things, it does exactly what it says on the tin. Yeah. Tractor porn. But it's the car and come by harvest. Nearly something. Wait, I missed that. I'm glad you did. I don't understand. Tractors are shagging other tractors. I think isn't it just people shagging on tractors? Yeah, like tractor shagging on tractors. Fake taxi but with a tractor. Where'd you shag on a taxi with a track taxi? People plowing each other. What's fake Yes. Oh , yeah. Sewing their seeds. Yeah. You both though in agreement went, yeah, like fake taxi. What's fake taxi? Oh , get out of town. Where do you want to go, Love? Yeah, I know. You mentioned that Martin, the character Martin, doesn't fit in. Yes. And it says in the research here that's been provided to me Thank you for your honesty. That the imposter syndrome comes up a lot in this book . Does that does that come from a personal experience of your of your own that you've drawn on to be like, actually , I know a lot about this imposter syndrome. Yes. I think I feel like most humans do have similar feelings. So it's not that I'm exceptional in that way. Good. Good. Scorpio. Yes. But and I know also that I am a vastly privileged white middle class woman . And I do have an understanding of what it is like to feel like an outsider. So I speak with a very English accent, but aged four, my family moved to the north of Ireland. I never fitted in. I was a bit bullied at secondary school. I ended up getting a scholarship like Martin to a boarding school in England. And on the first day at that new school, I was immediately accepted because of how I spoke, but I didn't feel that I understood any of it. And I hadn't grown up knowing the rules of that particular society. So I always felt that I was observing rather than included. Do you still feel that you have imposter syndrome or experience that feel ing now that you're sitting here, now that we like day to day? Yes. In different ways though. I've I've I'm blessed that I found my people and I have amazing friendships and relationships in my life. I know that I can rely on the fact that even if I feel insecure about how I do what I do, whether I'm recording a podcast interview or writing a book, I can f all back on the fact that I've done it for X amount of hours and X amount of years. And so I have an evidence base that I'm probably okay at it. And that's helpful, having that level of practical expertise. I'd love to be able to tap into that. 'Cause I haven't got a fucking clue how to get rid of the feeling of never belonging. Mm. Even doing this. I'm like, fucking hell, how have I managed this? This is great. Fucking wang this one. Like the 17 years at rugby. I was never any good evidence based. It's the evidence-based approach, isn't it? Looking at all the the whole history of everything you've done, all the things you've done successfully, and just thinking, well may,be I am good at this. Yeah, but there's another thing in my head that also goes, Maybe that didn't even happen. Oh, I totally get that. I first of all I think it's really beautiful that you shared that. Oh, thanks. Really? Thanks. And I also think that it's sometimes an amazing thing still to have. Like clearly you are brilliant at what you do. Clearly you were a brilliant Robin Bear. Clearly you are like great at this, and you were great on the traitors and all of that. But maybe it's good that you don't fully believe it because it means that you care, and it also means that you are attuned to other people's responses to you. And that's a really beautiful thing to take in the world and we actually need more of it. So you maybe you never want to lose it entirely. It's actually very powerful feeling like you're not ful fully included sometimes. Thank you. That's really kind of you. And I don't know how to deal with that much, but it was nice. But I do also think there's a part of me that goes , it's it might be easier for me to continu e down that route of not feeling like I belong as a great defence mechanism of like, well, I didn't I didn't want to be there anyway. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? When it does go tits up or it does go it doesn't go well or you are um , you know, actually you're not I don't I'm not very good at that . It's a defence mechanism for me, yeah. Well, I didn't I wasn't to be there anyway, I didn't want to be there. Do you know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean. It's an avoidant attachment. Like you're avoiding being hurt by refusing to open up and be attached to something. Yeah. And I've got insecure attachment where I'm like, just love me, love me, love me. Like let me try, let me try harder and harder and work harder and do everything. And eventually like that will make me feel safe. And neither one of them is bad, but I think it's really powerful to know that that's where it comes from. Part of your avoidance is making the joke before other people make it. And I want you to know that you are you are fundamentally lovable. You are loved. Just you don't actually have to do anything. You are loved exactly as you are . I know you don't believe that, but I want you to know it . Thank you . That was kind of you. Uh Joe . I don't know how to deal with that. I'm not very good at that either. I know. I uh 'cause I like to think that um oh I can re I can handle awkwardness, I can handle silence, you know, I've always based things that or making other people feel uncomforta ble. Um but you've just made me feel incredibly uncomfortable. I know I don't know how to deal with that. So I will deal with it in the most mature way I know how to, and go . Thank you, Elizabeth. It's really kind of you. Thank you, Jo . Right, Elizabeth. We've identified your voyeuristic tendencies, but it's no bad thing. Thank you. It's your superpower. We'd like you to give us the best piece of hot goss that you've collected in all your years of voyeurism, but people watching. Let's let's call it people watching. Okay. We're gonna we're gonna we're basically gonna exchange hot gossip that we've heard over the years. Okay. And we are gonna um do as we're gonna put as many pigeon noises and animal noises over any key details in the edit. Like names. Like names. Why don't you go first? Do you want to go first or Jake? I can go first. You go first. Like. I feel so bad because she seems like a lovely, lovely woman. But this story, and maybe you've heard it, has been doing the rounds of what used to be known as Fleet Street for decades. Fleet Street being where like all the papers were printed. Have you heard this piece of gossip? No, I don't know who she is. She's um an esteemed and she apparently had a sexual predilection . Predile . For like taking a shit during the act. Um and and apparently once on a glass table. That's what I've heard. That's what I've heard. Just a couple of questions. Yes. When you say taking a shit during the act. Yeah, like on someone's chest. Rather than when she's drawing her throat cloud. It's so weird, because I genuinely heard a very similar thing about Maybe they were having sex again. Really? Yeah. That's so interesting. That's very like uh I can totally see it of I heard a rumour that on his birthday every year he gets his people to find the four closest looking likes and then on his birthday they get dropped on the four corners of an island off the coast of South America. He gets parachuted into the middle of it and he's got his birthday weekend to find them and fuck them. That's a reality TV show. I have heard that. yes That's the end of today's session, Elizabeth. Uh how have you found it? It's been great. It's been so much fun. You've been fucking great. I have really, really enjoyed that. I hope you've taken something from this episode. So much. But if you haven't we're gonna give you something to actually take with you um every client gets a badge to remind them of the the arc that they've been through today um what have we gone for for the badge? We usually go with something to do with the the session, the diagnosis. That makes sense. We've actually stepped out of that. And we've just talked about you being here with us . Best guest ever. Wow ! Wow. Thank you so much. And that is huge. Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm getting an MVE. Thank you so much. Wow, that's really That's so lovely. What if our other guests actually watch our show though? Take that. They won't, this is the first time it's ever happened. Elizabeth Day, everybody! Thank you. Be gone. Thank you. Be gone, leave. Thank you. Leave. Just leave. If you want to join the doctor's waiting list, then please subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on Instagram at We'll See You Now Show. Remember, unless it's not clear enough already, I'm not a real doctor. If you need any professional help, you'll find a link to great support services on our Instagram. I've been Joe Marla and this has been Joe Marler. We'll see you now and I'll see you next time. Bye bye!