Closing Remarks and Swift Justice

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. This week Pass overruled brings the case against his wife, Mary Anne Mark is Jewish, Marianne is Catholic They celebrate a lot of holidays, but Jewish holidays often fall midwek. When this happens, Mark wants to celebrate on Saturday night instead This way, more people are available to attend But Mary Anne says, that's not kosher She says if a holiday occurs mid weeek, that's when she's cooking and hosting. Who's right? Wh's wrong? On one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference He found the Matza because you told him where it was hidden. didn't you? didnidn't you Bail of Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigs Mark, Marianne, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth in nothing but the truth So help you, God or whatever Yeah, I do do swear to abide by Judge John Hodman's ruling despite the fact that he doesn't celebrate any holidays at all since he was converted by Larry Graham of Sling the Family Stone and the Graham Central Station to Jehovah's witness. I will. I Sorry, John, it just occurred to me that was Prince. That was Prince. The singer Prince? No yeah It's not it's not uncommon that u that u I and the Deceased artists formerly known as Princes and then known as Princes again are often confused with one another Exactly. Judge Hgerman, you may proceed Mark and Marianne, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors. on this episode of the podcast called Pass overver Ruled cannither guess piece of culture that I reference as I entered this courtroom Marianne, we willll start with you. You werere referring to hiding the Matzah for Elijah the Prophet to come to find it Is that? Yes, but I was quoting a specific, I'll give you a hint, a television show If you didn't guess The obscure, it's not that obscure television show, but the reference curve your enthusiasm? Was it what? Was it was what'simism your enthusias. Well, it might have be. let me write that down in the guest book Pb your enthusiasm. Anyone watching the YouTube now can see that not only am I writing it down, but I haveve also become left handed recently Do you understand the mission now I did amm I pronouncing your name inc correctly? It's M marked with a C, correct You're hearing the sea all right, Mark It is you're coming through Latin It was more of a Mark with a K. I'll try it again. Mark. A little softer. M, good. That good Marianne guessed that I was quoting from Kb your enthusiasm. What do you guess I was quoting from I would say all in the family All in the family, anotherother TV show. I'm going to write that down Thank you. And those of you who are watching me write this down on YouTube, you'll notice that I'm in a new Location, I'm here at Jinny Media Studios in midtown Manhattan. With Ryan over there on the board on the knobs and dials, Ryan, you you have a guess you want to make Ryan says Kb Ryan,, what season and episode do you think it was Season seven, episode six If you couldn't hear him, Maryianne, what season and episode did you think I was? By the way, Mark, you're wrong. It is curb your enthusiasm But I'm not didid I just win? No Only if you can name this season in their episode Because because I'm a little stinker Season six, episode five. I have no clue. All those numbers sound familiar. The correct answer is season Five episode seven. Oh, you were all so close except for Mark with a C. It was not close at all That's. I don't know if there was a Seder on all in the family, I wonder. But there was some Kbier enthusiasm, I believe the episode was called The Seder And Larry and Cheryl, AA missses RF K Jr. No comment host a Sater, and of course you've made a reference, Marianne to the Passover tradition of hiding a piece of Matza and the children are invited to go and find it. And if they in the first find it gets dollar in the case of this episode and Stevie, the kid comes to demand his dollar and Larry accuses him of cheating. spepecifically accuses Stevie's dad played by Stehven Tobolovski of tipping Stevie off The matter was in the bookcase Stephen Tobovsky of course played my dad in what very, very famous animated show Still available on Hulu. Mark, Marianne, and he guesses. All guesses are wrong. at Sticktown on Hulu. Still available No Sorry to have to say that in front of to respectable people like yourselves, but guess what? It's not what you think it might be about And to everyone's surprise, most of all mine, if you Google Dicktown It actually sends you to our animated show that David Reason I created a show with a lot of heart A lot of not a lot of bad words, not a lot of serious themes, but we called it Dick toown in order to get FX to sign off for it because they're edgy Anyway, here we are to take up your case. Who seeks justice in this court of mine Well, I'm seeking justice for many years. We've had this disagreement and we're 'reking to you to your wisdom to give us the correct answer. Now you're looking to my wisdom, Mark, but here's the thing You're a judge Crect. You're a legit. Judge in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, correct? Yeah, I'm retired now is correct Yeah, I'mired, I'm retired. Beause you're looking at a judge who've never served St What area of judging did you get up to when you were on the bench there in Massachusetts? I was on the appeals court, so I decided every issue from each of the criminal probate. land everything. And let me ask you this. I got this off off of a retailer website. It's actually a gradulation robe and it's in pretty bad shape Where would you get your robes As a judge from the same place. Really? Gaduationbads. com or whatever. Exactly right. Do you still have any of them I do. Yeah, did you ever did you ever embroider Anything special on your robes like Renquist used to on the Supreme Court Now just my initials on the back, just my initials on the inside. Did you embroider on the back of the robes? It's marked with a se god or whatever, jam it Cool No Okaykay And and Marianne, are you also a judge No I am N. I never was and I It never will be But you met in a courtroom Yes. Correct. I'm sure there are many circumstances that would cause for a meet cute in the court? was what were yours I was a court reporter and he was an assistant DA and it was an unarmed robbery case and he came in to try it. He unarmed stole your heart I still remember the defendant's name and the assistant DA who later became my husband won the case Whoa, that's wonderful. Let me ask you this. The system DA Were you a shhaggy DA That was I it very, I'd like to think competent DA. I'd like to think And Maryianne, you were a court reporter. Did you do the thing that went like this Yes For those of you watching who not watching on the YouTube, I'm pretending to Y playay a mini casio keyboard, which is what they use to record proedings When the trial was over, he asked me if I wanted to have lunch with him bad. Rest is history. We had lunch and it lasted all weekend. We Wh. Wow. That sounds like a hot lunch It was How long ago was that M I was in that was forty threeree years Yeah, forty three years ago Wonderful. Would' it be fair to say that it's a forty three three year old first lunch still time to time. The magic is still there even if the food's gotten a little cold From time to time the time. Right Sometimes there are conflicts including right now. So you're in a mixed faith household. and Marianne, you are you are Catholic and Mark, you are Jewish and you want me to rule which is better Is that right? Well sorry. I' have a nice piece of paper that they want to know which Godd prefers. Yeah, which is which is God or whatever's favorite religion. No. It says here that you host a lot of holidays in your home. How many holidays are you hosting in your home, Marianne I'd say we probably do ten large holiday dinners every year. And by large What are we talking about We have Big families, so there's the minimum is usually eighteen to twenty people. We' gone up as high as thirty five people. Oh, Mary Anne And we're talking about Passover. We're talking about Thanksgiving. We're talking about The Feast of the Seven Fishes. that something you do? Yes, Yes. Really? Yes, the whole thing. Christmas Easter G Russ Asana . Father's Day, Mother's Day, everything. We do it all Now Mark, you are Arguably, this is the argument that you might be making, I hope actually trying to lighten the load for Mianne becausecause you are arguing that there are that there are certain holidays, Jewish holidays in particular that often fall in the middle of the week and you think it would be easier and better to actually have the big dinner on a weekend Is that your argument No it'll be it'll be more difficult to have it on the weekend for M Anne. but Okaykay, great. then I roll it in Maryian Anne' favor But If that's what you wantna have happen you want to make it more difficult for her It is more difficult because she's going to cook for far more people on a Saturday night than a Wednesday night. Yeah, but that's what you want. You wanted it to be on a Saturday night That is absolutely correct. M people, more festivity. Well, if it's not to make it easier for Mary Anne, why are you insisting that you observe these holidays that would fall in the middle of the week on a weekend instead so our family can all come together like my son and his wife and the two children can join us. They can't do it on a Wednesday because it's too far away and the kids have school and next day. If you do it on a Saturday, our son, our two grandsons And our daughter in law can come and join us Mary Anne, what's your position on this Well, I have two positions. My first position is it's tradition. You hold it on the day that it is and not move it to the weekend because it's more convenient I think that's crazy And number two Everybody knows what day it is when they look at the calendar because you see, it's Rushiahana and they know they're coming to my house. If we try to move it to a different day We have to deal with everybody's conflicts and I have L league and I have to go to the dentist and I I'm just Now there's some certainty because we're dealing with two families with T different traditions So this year Wednesday was Passover and then we had my family for Easter on Sunday. I don't have enough time to move Passover to Saturday and then have Easter on Sunday And it's for a lot of people. So I just think he should butt out because I do everything anyway I mean Do we even need to keep rolling? Mark? What is your defense Well, candidly, I've been fighting this battle for forty two years and I'm o for forty two So So so this goes all the way back to the beginning of your marriage. When I presume you did not have children or grandchildren That's correct. Families were smaller. but how did this start? When did this first as a dispute for you Um Parents moved here from New York and I had todler and his brother had a toddler and his parents house was small. So I volunteered to do the holiday the high holly days dinner because people would just be more comfortable And it never went anywhere else after that. they just always assumed for the next forty years that I would just continue to do it and I'm happy to do it. I learned how to cook all the food to make his mother happy And I make great brisket and great matza balls, and I'm very proud of that in my mind I'm doing it because we're celebrating these high holy days. You just don't move it to Saturday because it's a better party night I actually think we have some evidence of some of the food you prepare. Can we take a look at some of that evidence, please Okay. What are we looking at? There's a photo here of a beautifully set table and it looks like some carrots in a bowl. What's going on here, Marian? Yeah, those are honey carrots and right behind those look like potato lackkeies. So this was obviously a hanuka dinner Hanukah dinner, Every looks delicious. How many people came to Hanukah Oh. Yeahah, I can see some hanga Gelt in the corner there. Yes, I'm gonna say they were probably twenty five people at this dinner H eventually, you know, everybody had more children, so then there were more kids there and more spouses And you tell them to stop having children She couldn't. She's the Catholic one, John Oh right. That's true We had our house renovated so that we could make the table longer as the families got bigger Let me see some more pictures of food That's what's going to sell this podcast right now. look at that brisket Delicious. That looks amazing. What's What's your brisket recipe there It's a sweet and sour marinade and it goes into the refrigerator three days ahead of time. Wh. Then I cook it on the second day and then on the third day, I have to skim all the fat off and slice it, put it back in the sauce and reheat it. Yeah. So it's a bit of a project And when you skim all the fat off, do you put it in a container and then mail it to me Pfnce And was this also a Hanukah dinner or a different h? I don't know. The family likes brisk when I do brisket for Russishana, I do brisket for Hanukah, I do brisket for Passover And a few years years ago when we used to do We used to also do the night before Yom Kipur. then I would do a chicken or a turkey because they had just had brisket the week before. Right So you had to you had to mix it up a little bit. Y. And then for Easter, what are you doing Easter is Italian, so we start off with Sorlla soup. Then we have lasagna with the gravy meat and salad. Then we take a break. Then we have roast lamb, roast and baked ham grilled asparagus and roasted potatoes. And then we have dessert So that's a lot too. and it's hard to do Passover and Easter on the same weekend. I don't even know how I could do that. Now as I'm not someone who observes Passover Jennifer Marmer, you rock with a Sater, right Yes, I certainly do Is there any issue Theologically to having your Passover Sedater on Saturday. I don't know if you this is going to be a helpful answer for this case. I might need to recuse myself Um, but, you know, I'm sure there is an issue, but my family is a family that will celebrate on the weekend instead of the middle of the week because U for the reasons that Mark, I think is arguing but also because my mom still works and it actually is easier for her to do it on the weekend. and she's still the host of these gatherings So that Mark, as a Jewish person and your extended family on your side, I presume is also Jewish. There's no It's not a big deal for you to be having Passover on a Saturday theologically speaking. Yeah It would be fine to have Psover on a Saturday. Even though God hates that Yeah. Marianne, it's it's a lot of work to host a big holiday dinner party like this. Do you enjoy it? Do you have any help Tell me about your process Well, My daughter was a big helper. and she would always stay after to clean. and we had a whole cleaning routine in the kitchen with the music and the dancing and the dishes. but She just recently had a baby, so she's retiring from that So actually this year on Passover, I made him him Stay in the kitchen with me and help with the dishes because I was all by myself there. And he kept saying, Are we done yet? Can I go? And I No, we're not done yet. Oh Holy mooly Yeah, H holy mooly days, and right Wow. Okaykay. Mark's standing in a hole and the only tool he has is a shovel. Yeah, no I'm kind of like I got to angle around the camera here in the studio to see Mark on the monitor It looks like you have two legs, but weirdly, not one of them to stand on. Am I to presume you've already made your decision? No, no, no. judge to judge, of course not. I I am forming my opinion. I'm trying to hear everything. So let's hear from your side of it. Why do you think Mary Anne refuses to cook and clean for your pleasure Let me tell you, my wife is the best cook And she she's really terrific My family, her family loves everything that she cooks. I know. I'm having her send all of that brisket fat to me And I'm just saying it would be nice if like my son And my two young grandsons and my daughter in law can join us on the weekend to engage in this festivity. Is this a problem that has come up in the past? Have you had holidays Have you had celebrations of the high holidays where your family members can't participate because it's a weekday Yes. Yeah my son you, my son and his family usually cannot make it And is your son saying, gosh, dad, I wish you would have it on the weekend? I wish you would make Maryianne cook for us on the weekend or Is this something that's more internally motivated by you No, no, would he would love to have it on the weekend so he can join us But there are other weekend holidays that he could come around for, right And he does. I think they do. Yeah How far away do they live? You said forty five minutes or so. Well, it depends on the traffic They live in East Boston we live in Canton. so I would say it's thirty five to forty minutes, but his Wife, my daughter in law works in Lynn and that is considerably farther away. And that's why they don't come during the week But may I just say this they are with us a lot on the weekends. They have their own little apartment in our house, so they spend A lot of Saturday nights sleeping in my basement and I feed them when they're there Marianne, it's one thing to work really hard to feed a large family dinner on any holiday But you also, as you pointed out, had to learn a lot of new recipes and traditions in order to Observe these holidays properly. What was that like for you? I was I was scared at first. My mother in law had a lot of rules and She was a stern taskmaster, but Is she no longer with us, I take it She is not. I'm sorry What were some of the things that you learned from her, specifically, some Lessons either about food or life or both that you remember. I remember the first time I made a brisket I think it tasted fine, but she came in the kitchen after dinner and she said, the next time you make a brisket, you have to remember to slice it across the grain so you don't have all strings on the plate And I never forgot that. That was probably forty years ago. I mean, that's rock solid advice. That's not just a whiny complaint. That's No you're absolutely right. I remember then she was right and it works. I mean, another good piece of advice is don't serve a bunch of strings on a plate Mark with a C Judge Mark with theea E excuse me, Your honor, what's your favorite thing to cook Ste I don't You don't cook. Why would I ever cook would I have a master chef living with me. So she she is she's a phenomenal I don't know. Maybe you thought you'd go on a podcast sometime and not want to be judged harshally. That' right. Mark sounds like my college roommate, Nathaniel, who God bless him. I mean, one of the wonderffulest guys in the world One day I came home to our apartment and there was just an egg on the stove. in a sauce pan Cooking a dry saucepan And there was much dissension about whether Nathaniel thought you boiled an egg You didn't need water to boil an egg or whether Nathaniel had been boiling that egg so long that all of the water had left the pan Wow I don't remember which one Nathaniel claimed was when it happened, but you strongly insisted on one of those Mark, let me ask you this question and I'm saying this with a lot of affection. Judge to jud Can you cook an egg Yes, in fact, I make over the weekend, I made some scrambled eggs with a little cut up ham. Oh and cheese and it it was pretty good Be if I had to guess, I would have said the only way you know how to make an egg is on your face Mark, do you feel like your family gets short shrift on Passover if it's held during the middle of the week and can't join when Easter is almost always celebrated on Easter Sunday? Well, the the only short shrift is that, you know, my whole family cannot attend, although most of my family does attend The main people who did not attend were my son and his wife and had two young kids. Right. They're the ones that Marianne are cruelly locking out Absolutely. Of this night that is unlike any other Absolutely. my son brought up over the weekend. they came to visit us over the weekend stay over the weekend that we're celebrating Father's Day the day before Father's Day. We're not celebrating it on Sunday. We're celebrating it on Saturday at my wife's insistance. So my son said, if you can do that, why can't you and celebrate the Jewish holidays on a Saturday Would you normally have a big family dinner on Father's Day to finally give Mark a chance to relax We usually do a big barbecue on Father's Day. That raises a good point, Mary and Mark. Your son is the one who's agitating for a weekend. Couldn't he host it in his house He and his family No, they can't. So I'll just leave it at no. Mh. I see Well, they they live in the city. There's no parking They live in a beautiful house, but their entertaining area is much smaller than ours. There's never just a few people. It's always Well, that's because people have learned that you're a pushover and that you'll feed them at any time that they want Mark, are you just inviting people to this thing? I'm get getting the impression that you're a serial inviter. I do sometimes like if if we're on the road and we're in, you know, Asheville, North Carolina or something like that And I'll be at the record store. I'll be chatting with the guy at the record store and I'll be like, look, I don't know anybody else in Asashville, North Carolina. you want tona be on the list for the show tonight I get the impression you're passing out some later invitations that way The answer to your question is yes, and I will add, Judge John, when you're in Boston Yeah, let me invite you over to the house and we'll have a little party in your honor. I'd love to come and enjoy a meal And we will, well, and you're invited. Yeah, but I don't know if I could do it in good conscience unless I came in there and helped make some latkas or something You know, Marianne, Mark says he's capable of making a delicious egg and it sounds like it I were to order him say to help you in the kitchen as however you would instruct. Would he be help in the kitchen to you Can you do any basic prep or or kitchen prep, food prep No. Dishes was kind of a bust, it sounds like. He He will wash dishes afterwards But I mean, he's If I said to him,, why don't you chop the onions, he would immediately say, Well, what knife do I use? Is this the right way to cut it? After a few minutes of that, it would just be easier if he leaves the room Oh, right Does the knife that you w to use, Mark for cutting onions is the it's the one. I know that knives sometimes seem scary, like you're going to cut yourself with them, but they're not The knife that you want to use is the one that has written on the side of it, weaponized incompetence Markm being I'm being rough to you, but what would it mean for you to have your your son and your grandchildren and your daughter in law and all the people that you want to invite to your Seder. What does it mean to you to be so inclusive And what would it mean for you for them to be there? And what does it mean for you to have them not there? Well, it would be wonderful if they're all there, The whole family celebrating, but admittedly We have a lot of parties and we celebrate a lot. We just had a, you know, a big gathering on Saturday night. where my son was there with his family. So but you know, I feel badly for this significant holiday that they cannot join us. Are there any other? I mean, is this a Passover specific? ruling that you're asking me for here or Are there other similar conflicts that you'd like me to resolve Schedule wise. Yeah,, you know, the major Jewish holidaysahanic the Passover. yes. Yeah. Saturday, Saturday, Saturday, Saturday, no matter what Yes. Easter notwithstanding, other obligations and notwithstanding That you cannot believe what a great job she does. I can believe it. I can belieelieve it. There's something I can't believe, but that's not it No, I remember a few years ago, we must literally had like twenty, twenty n five people over for Friday night Passover. And then literally two days later we had close to thirty people over for for, you know, Easter and it The Easter feast it's unbelievable. She left out when she was describing it, you know, we have she makes lasagna, meatballs, sausages I et cetera, et cetera. Then we take a short break and then we go into the lamb, the ham, the roasted potatoes and the asespar. love a dinner with an intermission You can't you can't continually eat. ats some you need you need a break When did this back to back P overver Easter more or less back to back P over Easter thing happened. Was it just an accident of The liturgical and the religious, you know, it's just the way the calendar fell. And I'd say over the years that we've been married, it's happened probably five times where they've fallen on the same weekend. And I You know, I'm not as young as I used to be. I used to be able to do Passover on Friday night and Easter on Sunday but I just I can't do it anymore. Mark said that you put together wonderful spreads for both events. They were both perfectly hosted. What was it in case he's never heard it before, what was it like for you to do both of those holidays almost back to back that way. What was your how did your days go? How did you spend your Y nice. You know, I would start at the beginning of the week, every day make a list of the fifteen things I had to accomplish that particular day to get everything ready for the weekend. And then on the day, in between I would just be like a crazy person. Right. say you know say you were making a list, but to be fair, that's not as hard as it seems because you were using your little machine, right You mentioned that you had renovated your home in order to accommodate more people And I have to imagine that Two of you would not be married for forty some odd years. and so obviously in love and like with one another I have to imagine that you would not have spent that money if you both didnn't agree that you like having big family meals, cororrect? Yes. Absolutely. Mark Absolutely. All right So if you could afford to renovate your home to accommodate more people Couldn't you afford to maybe hire some help on the day I would be happy to do that. I would be happy to hire someone to Is this the first time you've offered or have you offered before and it's been declined? I've never heard that before. Oh wow Well, it went without saying So nothing in a marriage goes without saying I've not been married as long as you two have. but I've learned don't let things go without saying. Saying is important Maryianne, would you be open to accepting the help? I mean I Yes, it might be nice to have someone come in and clean up when we're all finished Yeah awesome. I mean, I don't know what's going on up there in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, but you know, when when when I discovered I had my non religious conversion, understanding that Thanksgiving is stupid And then I refuse to I refuse to do it It's great It's a great holiday It is. But I'm always happy to I'm always happy to go over to Christine and Jonathan's house if they're hosting Thanksgiving. And one of the things I've noticed is that Christine and Jonathan very smartly hire a company that brings All the all the tableware, all the plates, all of the silverware, all the glassware And you and so everything matches if' a big occasion and you don't maybe don't have fifteen or twenty matching sets of, you know, tablewar And not only that, but at the end of the day, you just take all the dirty plates, the dirty plates and you put them in a box and they come and take them away. You don't have to have to do them. Yes, I have seen that at other people's homes, not mine And is there a reason that you would not be willing to do that? Would that be help not I would absolutely be willing to do that. I just never thought that was on the table before I have to say because I'm crazy person. I have collected dishes over the year for all these different holidays. I have Christmas dishes, Thanksgiving dishes, Easter dishes I have blue dishes for the Jewish holidays. so Like I said, I am a crazy person. But you could hire some help in since obviously the free help isn't very helpful in the dishwashing department. I mean hire someone to come. This is something this is something that is like outside of my cultural milieu But John not have having storage for all those plates. Yeah. Yeah worntly outside of hiring hiring help for something Bye Like I I helped to host a brunch for John a few months ago And The person who hosted with me, my palu hosted with me, and I did almost all of the cooking We had somebody come to help with prep and serving and last minute things U She did some help with cleanup while things were going on so that my host and I could host the party and did a little bit of help with cleanup afterwards That's somebody that even if you pay them really well, you're talking about maybe six hours of work and you know, it's about the cost of renting a bounce house So it's something that might be worth considering. I mean, it's not available today. By the way, Jessse, I wantan to say that was a wonderful brunch that you and Jenny hosted. And also thank you for getting the bounce house that I requested. He wanted the one with the slide and so we just runung for it. It was a little extra, but I really wanted it But was I was shocked at what a difference that made for us to be able to both host and socialize Even though again, you know, all the care that we put into cooking was apparent in the in the meal that was prepared, it was nice to have somebody like Oh, we could have we can have her make the fruit salad. You know what I mean? Even if you're you want to be the one who's in charge of the brisket The other thing is that as your guest, both my wife is a wholeian In her own right and eye and Josh Kondelman and Maris Kreitzman were there as well your guests were're able to enjoy you more, Jessie, because you and Jenny were able to relax a little bit more And what's even more important than that was I got to bounce andslide And that's like not the answer for every party or every situation, obviously. It was the first time I'd ever experienced that, but I thought you know, in this context It was a it was a pretty valuable thing in terms of me and my co host Jenny's ability to enjoy the party and honestly provide great food because we were able to focus our pre prep on providing the uo and the cooking. It sounds lovely. But I've kind of offered that because we yet another party I throw is right after. Labor Day, I invite a large group of people For a barbecue, my wife once again does all the work barbecuing, but I have offered her We should hire someone and she was somewhat resistant, I have to say. Okay, wereere you Maryianne? I don't know that he offered to hire someone. I know he offered to have everybody bring food. which is never helpful because people bring what they want to bring, not what you want them to bring and then you end up having a lot of food in your refrigerator that no one wanted to eat So I said to him, I don't want people to bring food But I don't remember him ever offering to hire someone to come in and actually run the barbecue. What was the worst food someone brought to one of your potlucks God, there's so many. Be carefulful because theseese people are coming back. Oh I know. I don't want to insult anybody. But maybe it's time Marianne to start insulting some of these so called friends, so they'll stop coming to your house and oooching off your goodwill and incredible hostessing But what we did at my wife's suggestion, I told everybody, laugh you don't bring anything. You don't have to bring anything at all except deviled eggs. A few people love Peggy's deviled eggs. You told all of your guests to bring D devil eggs. This sounds like my kind of party. I love devil eggs. Everybody brings ds. Some people bring the kind of a little bit of bacon on top. S people yeah, I love this Yeah, that's it. Just one person brings deviled eggs and that's it. No one else brings anything else. Maybe they'll bring some wine or soda or something So they have listened to my wife that they don't want They don't have to break that. Mararyianne, who are the people that Mark's inviting out Is it only family or is he tossing out invitations How he tosses out invitations to everybody Anyone. How do you feel You know, if you're particularly nice to him in the checkout line at the supermarket, he'll ask you if you want to come for dinner. I notice he invited me and I presume Jessse to dinner as well and I want to be clear, he did not invite me to dinner You're invited. You are invited. This is a classic part of Mark's problem with not saying things out loud Marianne, I notice you didn't chime in and go, Yeahah, you guys must come to dinner after Mark invited us You know, he'll He does what he does and then I work around that I have learned over the years that Probably the best way for us to get along. How is working around that working out for you Well, I get tired. I'm tired a lot, you know, and I'm tired of just listening to this. The work that goes into hosting a party of the size that you're talking about. I feel like I have it done to a science after all these years. I have learned how many days in advance I need to start. and I have a list every day And I someome of the things that I do with my family, I have four sisters and they're very helpful And we all cook the same way. So when I say to somebody, you know, you bring the soup, I know it's going to be the soup that I would have made myself So, you know, the the stuff Christmas and Easter stuff I have, you know, they help me. my sisters help me. It's It's on the it's on the Jewish highigh holidays where it seems like you're kind of on your own Yes If Mark said to you, I don't know, pick a holiday. any anyone. It doesn't matter which one it is. It's one where it's like Whatever, your standard compliment of thirty to fifty people are coming And Mark said, you know what? honey, I love you so much and you work so hard But this is a big one. I've invited an extra twenty five people that I met on the tea this morning. Um I want to I want to do something for you. I want to let's just all I've rented a catering hall where we're all going to go to What's a restaurant in Boston Lockovers. doesn't exist anymore. doeses closed. Yeah. Yeah We're all gonna go to Kowloon Palace or whatever for the Feast of the Seven Fishes this year. We're all going to Melvilleess, upstairs from cheers. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. you're right If he said, I'm going to take the burden of one of these holidays off, even let's say that it's Passover. Like I don't obviously Passover is something you traditionally sayat or is something you traditionally have in your home. It's truly a family event. So maybe that's the wrong one But you know what I mean? Like if he took the burden off of you completely, would you feel good about that Or would you feel robbed of a certain kind of hosting joy I would feel good about that. Oh o I would have a few extra glasses of wine and enjoy myself instead of running in and out of the kitchen all night Do you do you feel joy cooking for your family Most times But I will say I was doing Thanksgiving and It was a lot because there's so many traditional things at Thanksgiving that people expect to see on the table And a couple years ago, my nephew came to me and asked if I minded if they took it over, and I did a little happy dance I'm so glad to have that one off my List peopleople wanting specific things for Thanksgiving That thing exactly comes out. It's the I hear about who are these people If you want to eat it, you got to cook it Otherwise, you gotta accept what the person who's cooking is feeding you These people who are like, well, you gotta make Nan' Bob while, boy you make nanas bl blah Yeah your nose of the creamed pearl onion. something that's always trying to sneak its way onto my Thanksgiving table when I'm not looking. It's not our family if there's not bluck. Yeah, it's great so learn how to cookie your own dang self Mary Anne, you say your sisters will help you with some of your traditional Italian American holiday dinners They're not of any use to you with regard to Psover Rashashana. No you couldn't train them. Is there anyone? you know, you're Your expertise in this field of cooking for the Jewish highigh holidays You know, you had help from your from your mother in law, right and and and counseling and mentorship is there Anyone in your family that you will be able to pass these oo traditions I'm hoping I will pass them to my daughter when she's not Mothering a newborn S day, she'll been Learn how to make the brisket and the matz balls and conongratulations all these grandchildren. Yes, the must be delightful. Must be fun. It is a joy. Every day, they are a joy. Do you tip them off to where the motz is hidden at the end of the Now, Mark I think it's fair to say, judge to judge I've given you a little bit of guff during this recording of the podcast, Judge Sean Hoddenon podcast, I've been a a little bit of rough and guff with you, Judge Mark. But you're, you know, you're a charmer What you what work are you doing during these big events? I would imagine you've got to be a very charming host. Are you doing some social work if you're not doing some actual Physical labor, cooking and cleaning and stuff and making sure everybody's very comfortable that they have something to drink, that that we're talking to each other. So I just want one big happy event wouldould you agree Marianne with Mark's self assessment there? Is he a pretty good the in the dining room host? Yes, he is he is a great chatter He loves to chat Given that Mark is in the dining room host position and given that you're in the kitchen host position. setting aside moving certain holidays to weekends. on the current current calendar Do you feel that your work is divided fairly Maria And I'll remind you You're under fake oath. You know, I have never really thought about it, but I appreciate he plays in all this entertaining that we do So maybe it is fair But you know, he's making a lot of extra work for himself and you by inviting these strangers over all the time. Who isight Who is the most random Yes I didn't Be u His sister and brother in law have a friend. say no more. I thought was Jewish and he invited him to come to Passover. he wanted to come to Easter instead. So this friend that we didn't know very well came to Easter dinner with my family who he'd never met before, which thought was very random Yeah, if you get invited to one thing, you go to that thing. I would say Yeah, he was invited to Passover and he said, you know, I'd really rather go to Easter and then he came to Easter. they loved him d loved them. Honestly, as wonderful as the Passover sounds and I like brisket and Lakes as much as the next guy, which is to say very much. These are wonderful foods I'm considering buying an airplane ticket so that I can get involved in this intermzo four hour meal with the With the gravy and the lasagna and the lamb and and the lamb. That seems tough to beat If I were to rule in your favor, then Mark, why would you have me rule? Passover on Saturday? Is that what it is It's a stretch, I realize, but I would ask yes passsover on Saturday. Is there anything that you're going to offer to sweeten the deal on this one because I think you can get a sense that it's kind of a non starter I would say to my wife, anything you want, honey, anything she wants to do passsover on Sday. Wow one, okay. Nhing you want. Anything you want. Interesting Is there there's not like a different holiday that you could make your last stand on? One that doesn't one that doesn't often coincide with a holiday that your wife celebrates thanks to her cultural heritage with seventy four different beasts like she was a twelfth century English king Marianne, you just heard him say whatever you want to have Pass over on Saturday, whatever you need, whatever you want tempted What would you want I would want him to stop asking me to move these holidays to the weekend. Just stop. I don't want to have this discussion anymore. Every year, twice a year, in the fall and in the spring we have this argument and it's just crazy because You know, I do everything. So I'm going to do everything the way I'm going to do it and it doesn't really matter what he thinks because That w work t I would like him to stop asking can we just do it on the weekend? No, we can't All right, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. go I'm going go hunt through the wonderful studios here at Jinny Media in Midtown, Manhattan lookingoo for any mozza that might be left around here because frankly, it's past my lunch and'm little I'm a little peckish. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodsman exits the courtroom Marianne, there's been a lot of vibes in this recording. How do you feel the vibes are headed? How do you feel about your chances in the case right now I feel pretty good about my chances. I think, u I think I have the the right point of view Mark, you've been in a lot of courtrooms. How are you feeling about what the jury' going to decide this time around I'm this is one of it's a losing case I'm not confident. We'll see what Judge Hosban has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment Judge John Hodsman, we are taking a break from the and you're taking a break from the real world and entering a a monastic life in Maine Yes, by the time you have heard this, Jesse Thorne and I will have plied the waters of Penobscott Bay aboard the Grace Bailey visiting with a select group of you who were willing to go on our weird murder mystery adventure. Luckily no one luckily there were no mysteries to solve other than how do we all have such a great time together? Thanks for being there. But by now I have now gone into the woods of Maine where I am very happy to be hiding out working on some personal projects for a while. If you would like to keep up with me, obviously the podcast will continue each and every week as well as the memerss only mail bag But if you'd like to keep a little bit closer touch with me Whon't you go to Hodman d. sububstack. com. That's my sububstack that I started a couple of years ago. It's where you get all of the updates on what's going on in my life and also where I am reading to you aloud public domain work known as Moby Dick or the Whale by Herman Melville and doing it in a ridiculous maine accent. You might like You've been reading this aloud for a while. It doesn't matter. Each one of these chapters is its own weird novel uo itself And obviously they're all archived there for you. if you would like to listen to Moby Dick goingoing back from the beginning or just catch up with me now. We got a lot A lot of Mbi Dick to cover, we've barely even seen the whale It's just about to get really exciting So if you want to go over there to Hodman d. sububstack. com I would enjoy it. And one other thing I'll plug that have nothing to do with Jessse. We talked to Rachel Reid had a wonderful conversation with Rachel Reid a couple of weeks ago about her novels Heated rivalry and all of the hockey romance novels in the E Game Changer series Of course, that was made into the TV show Heated Rrivalry by Jacob Tiery, which is also amazing Nothing Jacob Tierney is involved with. He directed all the episodes of Shorezy The follow up show to Letter Kenny If you want a different kind of Heated hockey show also directed by Jacob Tierney and written by Jared Keo, starring Jared Kiso. Shorezy has been a complete delight. I loved Letter Kenny. Everyone wass like, wait till you get to Shorezy. I'm like, I have to wait because I got other things to do, but it started last night and I'm loving it. It's a real treat. So there you go Tust what's on in your life course So many folks have been doing their summer wedding shopping. put this on shop if you've got a summer wedding coming up, whether you are looking for a wedding gift for the bride or groom. Or you are looking for a wedding gift for the bridal party or the groom's party, or are the family members or whatever Yes. get those wedding gifts at put this onshop. com where you can get very special things. I think a very easy one is if you got some groomsmen I think that they might appreciate nice cuff links to wear during the wedding. And also also perhaps some YoMTV rap cards. And why not? Sure. And if your groom's people are rad dudes, then get them some rad dudes' cards U besides that, I have some really cool stuff on Bullseye this month and next Next month coming up in July, we have a I mean, this is like borderline pandering, but we got a we got a week where we have Ken Marino and David Wayne, the well writers and director of What Hot American Summer. They have a new movie coming out Um and the hosts of Taskmasters. So whoa, if that isn't a Judge John Hodgman listener coded week on Bllseye coming up there could be no other thing. However, I would also encourage people to check out. We just had an amazing interview with the great Ben Veren. One of the greatest legends of musical theater, television and film history. Next week, we have Craig Ferguson, who has a brand new show on CNN U Michael Sarnoski, who directed the movie Pig with Nicholas Cage and the upcoming The Death of Robin Hood. So yeah, there go subscribe to Bullseye, herear in depth interviews with all of the most important people and wonderful people in culture and the arts. You can also find them all on YouTube if you are so inclined to do so Let's get back to the case Please rise as Judge John Hodchman re enters the courtroom and presents his verdict My wife, whole human being and I are recent empty nesters. We love for our kids to come home and visit. One of them is doing so right now. We love cooking for them. We love feeding them, But what we really love is being alone home together Do nothing. Where dinner is mostly like h, what do you wanna have tonight for dinner? Popcorn and gin again, right Now, maybe when I move into a new chapter of our lives, presuming that we to grow and mature as you have into into your wonderful Marriage of forty odd years and there are grandchildren involved? maybe after I've taken a rest of a couple of decades I'll be ready to do what you do again, Maryianne and take pleasure in that But there as much pleasure as there is in it, there is a tremendous amount of work that you're performing which isn't to say that you're not doing work too markark. You are doing important social lubrication work. That is work that you're doing, Mark, and I bet you do a great job I'll I'll make my final judgment when Jessie and I and our fifteen friends come over to your house for dinner other the n And you're invited. Yeah better stock up on brisket fat now. becausecause the amount of advanced planning, like you're talking about looking forward to the fall Like, you know, the amount of advanced planning that Marianne is doing, the amount of thinking ahead that she is doing, the mental load that she's taking on in order to make these events as special as they are and as wonderful as you enjoy them, you know takes a lot of work in advanced planlanning and Whether or not I'm going to rule on Passover on Saturday or whatever it is, breakfast for dinner or whatever it is you want. You know, I think that we've already touched on some of the most important parts of the Judge John Hodgman a book of settled law, onene being of course The person who does the work, the person who drives gets to choose the music person who's doing the work the mental and physical work of the chore you know gets to make more of the decisions. about how that gets done than the person who's simply enjoying the ride And the other one is, you know, help is the real help is is helping in the way you are asked to help not in the way that you want to help. and certainly not saying What can I do to help I think that it's really important, whatever my ruling is and I am still figuring it out in my head. Even as I talk. D don't know if you ever did this one, Judge Mark Im from the bench. Figuring it out while talking. probably we did, right? We know But the thing is that Whatever I rule, It is important for you to take in the work that Maryianne is doing, just as is important for Maryianne to take in the work that you're doing And I think it's important to offer her help, real help on these events, in the planning stages in any stage. I think that hiring helpel on the day, professional help on the day is a great gesture and something that you should avail yourselves of. if that's what Mararyianne wants, if that's helpful to her But I think it's equally meaningful and more meaningful that you learn how to chop an onion I mean, it's just a basic skill that everyone should have. And as pleasurable as cooking for family is I was gonna say as pleasable as cooking for family is, cooking with a partner is even more pleasurable. Actually, that's not true. It's usually a recipe for fighting. Yeah, that's my worst nightmare. Yeah, I'm sorry. I love my wife so much But I you know, like, you know, Marianne is hoping at some point that you'll be able to teach her daughter some of these recipes and some of what she learned from your mom But in the meantime, she's got no one to teach. and I think that whatever I rule here as penance Youve She's got to teach you how to cook some foods or else figure out some other way ahead of time to be helpful to her Stistically speaking in terms of prep, in terms of grocery shopping in terms of putting things away, in terms of moving things around, something in terms of doing all the cleaning Okay. Don donon't let my court officer get it down I'm not yelling at you. I'm just saying there's a lot of pleasure that will be taken in learning these new skills and observing the help that you can offer and offering it without asking but instead just by doing And Maryianne, I the same goes for you. I'm sure that there are areas in which Mark works very hard to, you know make your life comfortable and make your life happy. and You know, you should tune into the work that he does too and see if there can be help there But mostly mark you have to do it At least with regard to these family dinners, especially if you're inviting a whole bunch of people over, you know what I mean? The other big piece of settled laws be mindful of the work that you leave for others Um, you know, if you're making more work, you have to take up even if it's in an act of generosity. If you're making more work for Mary Anne, you have to take up that slack and figure it out. Don't ask how to help, but figure out how to make that easy. And one of the ways, honestly is if a guest says, nah, I'd rather come for Easter Those of you have to figure out how to say I'm sorry, that's not convenient for us. Can't let these guests run your house for you. You're the host. Both of you, co hosts If there's someone in your family Marryam who's like, I must have marshmallow on my yams, be like Just like just like my code officer said Go make it yourself. Go make it yourself. Yeah. and make it into a dessert. 'causeuse it was got Marshmalls, it's a dessert I want you both to enjoy these big parties and I want to come to one. You're invited. I know I am, Arth. But when I come to the party, I want I want to see and feel that the two of you are working in concert to lift the burdens off of each other and also having a great time And part of having that great time, I think for you, Mariannefairly is not only cooking and feeding the people that you love, but also being able to escape to the kitchen like I like to do. and have my introversion moments as well as my extversion moments just some this's just some advice from the bench. Some pre sentencing advice Look, you're going to get a couple of good ones coming up here, Mark because Rashashana is on a weekend, I guess. and Passover is going to be on a spring break and, you know, the family's going to be free and everything else But when it comes to scheduling these events, if you want to move the holiday Setting aside. whatever theological implications that might have or traditional observance implications that might have. If you want to move the holiday And all you're doing is inviting people and and topping off wine glasses and hiding the mozza or whatever is you're doing out there and everything else, you have to offer a lot more help than you've been offering. That's just the way it is. and you have to come up with like, I'm going to do these things becausecause it's meaningful and understandably meaningful for me to have, you know, grandchildren and son and dauer in law and all the other folks, like You have to be able to say, all right Next, you know what lookingoo ahead now. to twenty twenty eight when Passover may might be in the middle of the week again. I don't know Here's what I'm willing to do and really figure out what you're willing to do And if you and and and honestly, I would say You know, like If not learned to cook Watch what's happening in the kitchen during these upcoming Hi holy days And make some mental notes so that when you make your pitch in twenty twenty eight for Passover, which will be the next time this is revisited You can say, here's my pitch Here's what I'm willing to do Easter's going to be yours, and here's what I'm going to do on Passover to make sure that it is enjoyable for you What do you think And if Marianne takes that in and says yes greatade But if she takes that in and I order Marianne to be honest, here. and says no, it still doesn't work for me St doesn't work. Short of you taking over Passover, completely That's going to that which would be fine if you want to do it It would be a weird passsover, I bet Fison is good. That's how you learn You know, you've got two years to plan this thing now Right? almost two years Unless you're not unless're gonna take over Passover completely, soup to nuts Two favorite Passover dishes You know Don't make work, don't make extra work for Mary and she's doing the work. She gets to choose the music. and the music is Middle of the wee I have a little gavel here. Just a wee little gavel because my big one was confiscated by security at San Francisco International Airport But I'm also going to throw the book at one of you This week, the book is This wonderful Advance Readers's copy of Cloud Six by my friend Amy Fussselman, a really funny and wise novelist says here following a catastrophic plane crash, married couple Maam and Bunko. have found themselves in Cloud six. It's the newest. and lowest tier of heaven. It's a really funny, wonderful novel that I enjoyed a lot. I got to read it early on this ARC. It doesn't come out until September. So you would get to read it early too. And since you live together, you both get it. so I'm throwing the book at both of you. I'm ruling in Marary Anne's favor with the caveat that Mark, you have a chance to repitch this in twenty twenty eight, but you got to figure out you can help, and you gotta pitch it and Marianne's got a chance to say no. This is the sound of a gavel. Let my people not Jud Jhn Hodjman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodggeman exits the courtroom Marianne, how are you feeling about this decision I'm very happy What are you imagining for the future I'm imagining that he'll be saying the same thing in two years and we'll have the same discussion and then no, go away. We're not doing that. I will keep an open mind and I will keep you posted. And I'm telling you, if you are in Massachusetts and you want the best meal you're ever gonna get in Massachusetts, let me know, you're invited over and we'll have a nice party in your honor Y'onna. Marianne, I'll check with you first. Thank you. You're welcome Mark Maret, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. It was fun. It was a blast. Thank you very both very much. Thank you Another Judge John Hodsman case is in the books our thanks to Redditor Lex Fryy for naming this week's episode. You can join us on Reddit at R slash maximum Fun R slash maximum fun Well you take our suggestions there, It's a lot of fun, a lot of good times, a lot of good chats Yeah, love I love seeing all those suggestions. There're always great ones there. It's a lot of fun. John and I both we're visiting. we're in their post and we have a nice time. U We're also on Instagram where you will find those beautiful Hanukkah and also Question mark spreads that we saw photographs of We don't know where that we don't know what holiday that brisket is from. If you've got a guess, put it in the comments. All the holidays are brisket holidays at that house We're also on TikTok and YouTube. You can find full episodes of our program on YouTube. You can find Hlights and video only content on both YouTube and TikTok, as well as on Instagram. so follow and subscribe to us in all those places. John and I both individually on Instagram as well been posting a lot lately on Blue skky, so join me on Blueky. Chesse, you've been blue skying it over there? I' I'm a real blue skky guy now And hey, when you're interacting with us on social media, you're following Judge John Hodgman or Instagram or Blue Sky, Jesse Thorne over there on Blue sky or whatever Keep in mind, we need your disputes. We need cases. Yeah. I know. What about bringing dogs into bars and restaurants Cool or not so cool for other public spaces Are you a planner or and your friend just likes to go with the flow at the gym, are you a peace and quiet person? or are you like to get chatty with your weights I'll judge who's right and who's wrong. So your do and I'll also judge if your dog is cute enough to go into that restaurant Just make sure to send send your disputes in because we need them in order to make the show go. You can send them to maximumfund. org slash JJ H O. There's a little form you can fill out there. You can email me Hodgman at maximumfund. org. thoseose go directly to my email box U And then I send them over to Jennifer. And then of course, you know, if you're seeing us on social media in with a dispute there. anyywhere you can get a dispute to us, get it to us, whatever iss convenient for you because we need them the show go John Jesse Junior came with me to the flea markarket this weekend and he was really good Yeah, did he need to buy some more fleas? You hear that tone? I said, Do you need to buy some more fleas? What do you say there, John? He said I said your dog needs to buy some more fleasight at the flea market, sure. Hey, speaking of putting things in the comments, if you're watching us on YouTube right now, thank you very much for doing so. please please, please press that subscribe button. Getting more subscribers helps more people discover the show. YouTube is the way that most people discover their podcasts now. and while you're there I would like you to put in the comments. This is for real Give me your brisket recipes in the comments. Give me your latka making tips in the comments. Give me your favorite Passover food recipes in the comments. I want to look these things up I want to learn them, and you know, Mark needs to learn them. When you put a comment in there, you become eligible for the YouTube comment of the week and I have right here this week's YouTube comment of the week right here has been printed for me. We had a lot of great comments and a lot of wonderful people watching our recent conversation with Rachel Reid. The author of the game changer series of hockey romance novels upon which the incredible Netflix show Heated rivalry is based. Rachel Reid came by T talk to us in that very office where Jessse is sitting right now in that wonderful studio. I was there too We have some great comments as well. I don't know how to pronounce this user I'm here, Dlight seven seven one four, You know who you are, wrote The Game Changer books and the Heated rivalry TV show. have made me a better, more ardent and attentive lover Ar Thanks to Rachel, Jacob and the team for supercharging my Lbido. Adent Not something this podcast has ever been accused of before. Yeah, this is a new one for us Normally this is something people listen to when they want to get cooled off. But this is what they call a cold shower show. Yeah, that's right. But that's not our YouTube comment of the week, Jessseie. This is our YouTube comment of the week This one comes from A Clyde Bryce seventy two in the comments of our Heated rivalry episode with Rachel Reed hadad to stop watching the video and just listen Jesse Thorne in that bailiff suit Mixed in with his handsome face. Bald head And long fingers, if you know, you know is giving me fever here at work That wedding ring nearly spoiled it, but you can't have everything in a man If you're not watching the YouTube now to see the specific shade of red that Jesse is turning Please go over to the YouTube right now and Sscribe. You get to watch our whole episodes here Right here on YouTube, plus a lot of video only specials and shorts. Make sure to subscribe, hit that bell for notifications. The video, John, the only way you're going be able to properly imagine how good I will be getting things out of jars for you Yes, exactly right. If you know, you know heck out those long tapering fingers over there at our at Judge John Hodgman pod on YouTube. Just search it up and subscribe, won't you? I mean, I'm glad we got that finger comment on our most finger centric episode of the year. I think we did a lot of finger work on this program All right, now I'm getting grossed out, so why don't you read the rest? All right, Judge John Hodg, created by Jesse Thorne and Joh Hodgan, this episode is engineered by Chris Kaliffarski at the PRX podcast Garage in Boston. and at Jinny M Media Studios in New York, City, Meghan Rizoti runs our social media, the podcast edited by AJ McK and, our video editor, Daniel Spear Production help this week from Margu Manaalin, our producer Jennifer Marmer. All right, you ready for swift justustice, John? I am ready, Jesse. Grab him by the Putin, says on the Max Fun subreddit. Amongst my partner's many virtues is their commitment to flossing regularly. But they often leave their floss picks on his used dishes As the resident dirty dish collector, I'm not exactly sure why this irks me Well, But please make them throw away their floss picks Am I under the impression This person's partner is flossing their teeth at the dinner table. so it would app Here I it seems that they have a pocket stash of floss picks that they are accessing at the table Or you know, at the on the living room sofa at the coffee table in front of the television if they're a TV dinner family. Yeah. And they're flossing And then they're putting down that pick right on that used dinner plate for everyone to see. Now look, Marianne in this episode has a lot of different plates, different styles of plates, Easter plates, Hanukah plates Different plates for different occasions There has not been a dedicated loss saucer at the table since the days of the Titanic. That's over Do your flossing in the bathroom and throw it away Remember to submit your cases to us at maximumfund. org slash jj HO and we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximum fun.