Final Showdown and Legacy

Tonight in your city, someone is walking their dog Someone is crossing the street to their car Someone's kid is riding a bike home. And they're counting on you to drive the speed limit Speeding accounts for nearly thirty percent of traffic fatalities, and most of those crashes don't happen on the interstate. They happen on the streets where people live sllow down It's an act of care for the people around you. So remember Speeding catches up with you Kow the road and respect its limits. presresented by Nita. Now back to your podcast. You know when the bad guy hands the good guy the champagne flute and says, you know, we're not so different, you and I. That's We Hate Mvies and junk food cinema. Brian's very graciously allowed me to tell you about our upcoming Las Vegas shows. Yes, We Hate Movies is playing three shows in Las Vegas at the Rio during the Star Trek convention, STLV, the sixteth anniversary. You do not need convention passes to attend But if you'd like to, you can head to wW. Wmpodcast dot com slash tour for all ticketing information. Yes, so Thursday august sixth will be doing a live podcast on Star Trek two, the Wrath of Khan. Friday, august seventh will be doing a live podcast on Star Trek Generations and Saturday Star Trek first contact Live podcast, We eight movies coming out. I'd love to see my junk food cinema people there Hi, this is Dick Miller. If you're listening to Junk Food Cinema. Who were these guys? It was born bad Plain and simple someomewhere deep on a darkened assembly line A twenty fourteen podcast possessed by Hell How do you kill something that can't possibly be alive. Watch out for me. I am pure evil. I am jung food cinema. Brought to you by second bestest Newcmell. com. jamot comot o show me. This is, of course, the weekly cult exxploitation film cast so good. It just has to be fattening. I'm your host, Brian Salisbury. And this week, Cargill is off buying a car from some guy named Lewis Cipher that he has been assured is one hundred percent probably not at all secretly evil. So in hisead, the only fitting passenger on this road trip back to Terror toown Your friend forever, mister Scott Weinberg. It's me, Scott Weinberg, and we're here to talk about a film in which Rebecca Hall plays the first woman to shoot herself on live television. It's Christine What an awful joke to make No I'm going to make a worse one. I thought we were here to cover the movie about the Lady Jesus who gets beaten up for two hours. Passion of the Christine. Is that not what we're doing today? Oh well no, I mean, it's completely off base, but if you've never seen the twenty sixteen Indie film Christine starring Rebecca Hall. It is quite sobering and tragic and very well made. That's not the Christine we're here to discuss today. No, but speaking of tragic, there are twelve years of junk food cinema available on your favorite podcatcher. You can also follow us on social media. And if you really like the show, I mean you really like the show. I mean, if you like it as much as I kind of want to see the passion of the Christine now, you can go to patreon dot com slash junk Food cinema, financially support the show We greatly appreciate it Weinberg I am super excited for today because this is one of my all time favorite directors. and honestly, if we cover this man's entire catalog before this show is finished, I will call that a rousing success. But this is a really interesting entry in that catalog. todayay from nineteen eighty three, we're talking about Christine Christine, Christine Christine. I'm begging of you, please don't run me down. She is seductive. She is passionate. She is possessive. She is pure Eil She is Christine, a nineteen fifty eight Plymouth Fury, posossessed by hell Her previous owner is not alive to warn her present one. Once she lures you behind the wheel, you will be hers. Body and soul. There is no place you can hide. No place you can run Nothing you can do can stop her. Because how do you kill something that can't possibly be alive Christine body by Clemis soul by Satan Watch out for her Christmas a nineteen fifty eight Plymouth Fury kills all kinds of character actors like Robert Rski Um Robert Prosky has one of the best lines I've ever heard in my life, and I'm pretty sure it's from King's original book But when he says, you can't polish a turd Oh, is that great? What a great line I lovead in the script. It's written. You can't pollish a turd burp fart diarrhea. Like he is a grotesque human being in this movie. Oh, he's so gross. This movie is embedded into my DNA. I saw it in theaters, which means I would have been what eleven going on almost twelve and uh, you know, it it has that that misfit strikes backack, which is a chestnut that I love, you know, the, you know King did it earlier in Carrie. this is kind of the gender swap version of Care. and it's always been one of my favorite themes in horror is mess with that weirdo because they will come back with rats or bats, cats or cars to run you over and make your body crrushed Dude, now all I want in the whole world is to create a road sign that says character actor crossing. and just have little stick figures of like John Carroll Lynch and Harry Dean Stanton and MC Gany like trying to walk across a road because they keep getting mowed down This movie is Fantastic It cost ten. It only made twenty one and that breaks my heart. This deserve to be a bigger hit Now you talked about a chestnut that works for you, Scott and that's the don't mess with the weirdo Yeah, I call it M I think I think it was actually Leonard Malton who coined misfit strikes back And it like I mentioned Willard. there's also like Mascar at Central High. There's, I mean, there's so many, you know, like where it's either someone who's a little bit weird and you feel awful for them or they're overtly weird and you know you still feel for them because they're a human being you know, it's don't mess with the outcast kind of thing. Right. So we're going to peanut butter and jelly this shit because You love a Misfit Strikes backack movie and killer cars a niche little sub genre that I happen to adore. I know that you're a massive fan of nineteen seventy seven's car. The car Christine we're talking about today, the Wraith dual maximum overdriveoser Kill Doozer Scott There are far far too few people on this planet who have experienced the absolute joy and wonder of Kill Doozer Battle truck. Battle truck. Yeah, I do. I also love a killer car, whether it's autonomous or driven by a human being, driven by madness or revenge. maximum over dririve. is like, you know It's like eating a bowl full of icing where you get a headache halfway through, but you forced yourself to keep eating it. It's like bad for you, but It's fun You know, like killer cars is just a fun concept. There was one that came out eight or nine years ago called Super Hybrid that I also liked. Oh, sure, sure sure And I think they even did a sequel F too late sequel to the car like back in twenty eighteen, I want to say that was direct to video that I never got around to watching What about the second? I mean This is like the fact that like you would say just about everything that Stephen King has ever written. quiz hotshot. Maximum over drive made for cable. What was it called? Oh, that would be trucks Yes. And it was not a remake of Maximum overdrive, it was a second adaptation of the truck's short story, which I believe is in skeleton crew Yeah, his his second collection of short stories. It's either Night Sift, which was number one or skeleton crew, which was number two. Those are my two favorite King collections. Anyway ask me a question. All I know is I go from zero to sixty so fast for these movies and this one I think of the crop we've talked about manages to be the least silly and have the most interesting character work, which I think speaks so highly of John Carpenter as a filmmaker. I honestly think folks sometimes get the wrong notion of him, even if fans of John Carpenter, that he's all about the concept and the execution of the genre stuff and the style Right? But he's a deeply character driven storyteller. Oh yeah. he has there's a real empathy for the lead character here, not only when he's like the, you know, very awkward nerd who's being picked on endlessly, but even when he becomes like quote unquote cool in his own eyes and becomes like the badass he wants to be. There's still a real affection and traragic affection for this character Yeah, I agree one thousand percent. Honestly, as we go into this, I think we would we would be remissed to not remember a quote from Guillermo Dl Toro that we talked about when you and I did Mimic recently. when you get a concept that is a B concept, you need to try and execute like an A movie. And that is literally John Carpenter. likeike he took this script about a killer car and was like, I'm going to make this not so. I mean, honestly,' Steven King. donon't get me wrong. It's not like the Stehen King book is bad. But on paper, it's like you're going to make a movie about a killer car that falls in love with a boy Any other director would be like, okay, I know exactly how to do this. It's silly, right? It's maximum overdrive. No, it's not maximum oververdve. It's It's a Almost Shakespearean tragedy about the dissolution of a friendship with a killer car Oh yeah. I mean, we mentioned like You know, killer car, misfit strikes back, the the transformation. from, you know, troubled youth to troubled young adult. and, you know, it really does capture that whole Oh in a in obviously a very extreme fashion But in that h o, You know, this time last year, he was my sweet nerdy friend and now I barely recognize him We've all had that, you know, with one with one friend or two where you're like you know, what happened to that guy, you know, or girl? And uh, you know, and and with Arnie He This movie lives and dies by the Keith Gordon performance and it I think it's flawless. I think He gives a fucking great performance I agree a thousand percent. and you're making me realize. Christine has more in common with less than zero than it does maximum overdrive. and that's just wild to say out loud, but it's true Well, I mean, yeah, if you're going to deal with like, you know such a wild concept and and not even wild, but like potentially silly, let's say You really want to you know, base it in as much humanity and reality as possible And you know, okay, the idea of a killer car, a possessed killer car or a car that was quote unquote, born bad That is an inherently goofy concept, but between the relationship that Ornie has with his best buddy, his new girlfriend and his parents, especially. Uh, you know, it really does feel like a oh, man, I, you know, it's like watching a kid get into hard drugs or, you know, you're like or crime And you're like, oh man, you know, I it was a weird, you know, a little awkward in the first part. but you know, most nerds, almost all nerds grow out of that And you don't want to see them have a tragic end It's like, you know, when you want to grow up too fast or, you know, you you foster an obsession that's kind of what happens You could cut this movie around the car killing people and just assume that Christine is the street name of Crystal Meth and the movie still works Right. It could be either drugs or crime or it could be a day, you know, a bad influence, a young lady, you know, whoses bad influence on him. it could be anything car is just the metaphor for, you know, a kid who's growing up you know, sadly, he's a bit awkward and, you know, gets involved with the wrong Uh person, but entity And you know, you start to, you know, you could see it You know, people from the outside can often see, Ohh God, he'll he'll be dead in a year. God forbid. You know, like You start to think that like, oh, what happened to him or her? God, you know, I I hope that people said about me when Taco Bell introduced breakfast, by the way Yeahes my day in a year I called him every other day. I said, stop eating taco breakfast Um I'd call him at like eight o'clock in the morning and I'd hear chomping away. I'm like, what are you doing He's like nothing eaten frosted flakes And I could tell just from the crunch What he was eating. Yeah, I called the crunch the breakfast crrunch reprap Christine as the street name to try and hide it from Scott, but he still knew what I was talking about Where would you rank this on Carpenter's quote unquote classic era because this is right in the middle of his beautiful Run And I think a lot of people who don't love the movie or maybe don't remember it, consider it one of his like lesser And I think I mean, I I don't think it's Halloween level I think it's right below that on his B plus or even A minus level. I think I like Christian more than a lot of horror fans do. but wealth Yeah Where do you put it on Cpenter's ranking So I would like to put a pin on that because I definitely want to come back and have that whole discussion about his because of where I think this movie interestingly falls for a lot of Carpenter fans. But before we get into that, Wikipedia would have you believe that Christine is a nineteen eighty three American supernatural horror film co scored and directed by John Carpenter. The film stars Keith Gordon as Arnie Cuttingham, a bullied teenager who buys a sentiate, nineteen fifty eight Plymouth Fury, as Scott mentioned, Named Christine that exhibits a toxic personality and becomes a bad influence again, as Scott mentioned, on him. and it drives a wedge between him and his best friend Dennis played John Stockwell as well as his parents, etcetera, et cetera. How is he going to climb out of this weird love triangle between boy and girl and car and booy's best friend? Yeah, it just you could see the change, you know, he goes from a very awkward bullied teen to, you know to grown up e. still kind of silly, muchuch more confident and and cocky And you know, it's like, of course, you know, it's easy to see why a teenager would prefer that second vibe over the first one It's still as a grown upp watching it, it still feels just like a kid going through different costumes in a way So we didn't have to put a pin in it for very long Scott because I do want to talk about John Carpenter here. I want to talk All right That's the thing about pins is they don't care how long they've been stuck. That's true. You know what That's in my chicken soup for theoul book that I haven't read. Porskins are made to be stuck, not for how long Sott Weinberg uine. org. Oh, and by the way, I am not any type of car expert at all God, what a beautiful car. Oh, gorgeous. absolutely gorgeous. That color, the shapes, it's got like hips and shoulders and it, you know, it just you could see how people like get into the whole, you know, Especially the fifties car culture. you could see how they're so appealing. It is a beautiful piece of engineering and Mufacturing, it's beautiful And if you are a car guy or want to learn to be a car guy, just go to the IMDB trivia section. They will tell you all the different modifications that were made to the actual Plymouth Fury to make it look like this and how they didn't release that color and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like they will go on and on and on in detail about the the history of the Plymouth Fury. So feel free to peruse that. I like Scott. I'm not a car guy. so I can only speak to what I like in the movie and what's, you know, like as as Ross Kelller once said, I don't know but look how shiny. That's kind of how I am with cars And I can remember Car as D man again, in nineteen eighty three is a long time ago. And my brain right now is remembering where towards the end Buddy Reel. he opens the shot on Buddy running down the highway and then he cuts back Carpenter cuts back to uh Christine right behind her him on fire and that bass note of Carpenter's score hits. And it's like d d And I gave me it gave me goosebumps then and it gave me goosebumps two days ago when I revisited the film for the eighth or ninth time. Again, I love this movie Speaking of cars, John Carpenter, as I mentioned is one of my very favorite directors of all time, onene of the few filmmakers whose work is a constant source of comfort food for me No matter how many times I revisit. And again, I would love to have covered his entire catalogue by the time we wrap this up. Wh now I think we've done Halloween, we've done D Live. We've done Prince of Darkness, we've done U I think we've done Big Trump, a little China, We've done it's that we've done in the Mouth of Madness. We've done a lot of his movies, but I D't know that we've done the farog I'm not entirely sure on that But a lot of his movies for sure Um So we got to think about Carpenter right at this period in the eighties he had been having this incredible batting average like from Halloween, right to the fog, escape from New York and then to, you know, the thing. But prior to the thing, we've still got We've got Halloween, we've got the fog, we've got escape from New Yor All those movies bam bam bam right there. just like an unbelievable batting average. likeike he came out hot with Halloween. He continued to Yeah, you're even skipping some good films at the beginning. like Dark Star is a student film that is remarkably entertaining. Assault on precinct thirteen is Wild. But what I'm talking about is, you're right. You're absolutely right, but neither of those films were the ones that put him on the map Like they were not finanally successful. They were his big breakout film, obviously Halloween for many, many decades was the most successful independent film of all time Then, you know, he makes two more very financially successful films in the fog and escape from New York. And then we get to the thing And at the time he finishes the thing He is developing A adaptation of a completely different Stephen King novel, Fire Fire starter. Y. Yes. Wicked fire starter. Job was taken away from him because of the things box office returns. We don't talk enough about how much the failure of the thing rocked John Carpenter's world and how unfair it is And it's and totally unfair too Yeah because even if you don't like the thing, even if you don't like it. can't argue that it's poorly made. You couldn't possibly say that So you know, and he they should, I mean, I'm a little bit glad not glad that he had, you know, failure, but Firestart is not that interesting of a novel And I think that I don't think he would have done as good a film. I think his Christine, which he had to quote, unquote, settle for, Damn good and and I don't think the best version possible a fire starter. would have been better And he loses that job. And then if that's not enough insult to add to the injury, Universal who he had made the thing for and who had given him a multi picture deal opts to buy him out of the contract instead because of the financial returns on the thing And again It's it sucks so much because not long after this the thing would be reevaluated as a classic, not only of Carpenter's catalogue, but a classic of the fucking genre. a fucking masterpiece. you want to go back in time and talk to the executives at universal and be like, All right, it bombed. Leave the man alone. It's not like he did something horrific or pornographic or, you know, monstrous, Lave him alone. Even though he was called a pornographer of violence When when critics saw the thing and he was like, I don't even know what that means It's just absurd. Like One of my simple defenses, well, I have two, but one of my main defenses of the thing is, look, You see something super super gory And it's disturbing and you really, you know, your brain doesn't like it Okay. A filmmaker, a storyteller and author knows this And then the threat of seeing more forty minutes later of the Ensemble not the ensemble. the what is it called the when you have a bunch of weapons at your arsenal. Your arsenal fear of seeing something ultra gory around the next corner or in the next scene is part of a horror filmmakers's arsenal. So it's not just we're raising tension. We're raising paranoia. We're raising just general atmospheric fear in this isolated location, but the threat of more graphic violence or not even violence,s just a graphic surgical procedure. of the arsenal And to, you know, it's not right tell a filmmaker, you can't use this part of your arsenal. There are horror films that are just Gore for Gre's sake. And even then they might be entertaining I don't think anything in the thing is just meant to be pure shock and fuck and mindless gore. None of it. What Scott is trying to say is these critics didn't know their arsenal from a hole in the head I wasn't trying to say that. Well, I'm going to say that you were trying to say that I would never say something that cornball. We shall see. But no what's really crazy about that though Scott is like you know, just a few weeks ago, I watched all five hours of the thinging expxanded documentary. So I have never been more in tune with how much blood, sweat and tears went into the making of the thing. Like literally He almost killed the entire cast multiple times driving up that winding icy road from base camp to set in British Columbia. like They were literally like freezing to death out there. They all got sick. likeike it's just like there's there's so much that went into the making of that movie, which again, we now know is a fucking masterpiece. But the failure of that movie so adversely affected his career and so unfairly affected his career. that when he loses fire starter There Luckily, Stephen King at this point in the eighties is such a popular writer literally Christine went into production before the book was even published. And the screenwriter Bill Phillips, who wrote the screenplay on this He thought it was a joke when he was asked to adapt a book about a killer car. Ag, be movie concept, right? But then halfway through reading Stephen King's novel, Phillips realized it was really good and signed on a movie approach. So He So this project comes to Carpenters like, okay, we're not doing fire starter. We're going to do Christine And there is a part of me that believes, just lookingooking back on all of the context and where Carpenter was at this point his career and the immense blow of the failure of the thing. I truly believe now My theory is that this is the most personal film of Carpenter's entire catalogue Yeah, I just really you were doing like a biopic of Carpenter's earliest career This would be the one where it's like, All right, I got to really, you know, I got to impress the suit, you know, I really do. like I have to make a really good film. And he already did with the thing, but now he has to like almost like play the game per se Yeah, there's a part of me that believes he felt a kinship to the character of Aie Cunningham. Oh yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he probably related a lot more to Christine than he did Firestarter. And you know, with all due respect to Mark L. Lester director of Class of nineteen eighty four, who inherited the Reigns on Fire Starter I you know, I would love to see what Carpenter's version would have looked like I just think that you have a character that's very intelligent is this funny kid who's unduly picked on practically by everyone in his life And you could easily read that as a metaphor for Carpenter and his relationship with film big machine that gives the battered loner a purpose only to then be consumed by that relationship that yields all these negative consequences. It's like, yeah, that's what Carpenter was going through with the film industry at that point Like there's a very interesting read of this film where it's deeply personal. And there's also, you know, you also can't argue with another result is Christine was just successful enough to get Carpenter a gig on nineteen eighty four as Starman which is not his typical tone That was also a nice hit for him So you could argue that, you know, he he did what he wanted he accomplished what he wanted on Christine, not only making a good film, but also you know, Hollywood re, you know, welcoming him back at least temporarily Wild about that Scott is that I still believe the biggest unfair disadvantage placed upon the release of the thing is the fact that it came out the same goddamn summer. I think even within the week of ET No, it wass two weeks after Yeah, It would be two weeks. Yep Yep And, you know that for years that had been like the general vibe is that people wanted the the friendliness of ET and I don't know if it was all that tone, but I think it was just I mean thing opened opposite blade Runner Yeah. I mean, it had a lot of competition that summer for sure But you know, it was just ET was steam rolling. notot just ET was not just a hit. ET was Massive I mean, it was sold out for three weeks in a row You know, it was sold out on its in its third weekend Th again. The weird circular fittingness of this is that The thing gets a little bit of blowback because of its proximity to ET And then John Carpenter ends up after Christine, which is the movie that he makes to get himself back on track because of the thing The next movie he makes is Starman. which was a script that Columbia Pictures chose instead of ET because they liked it better Columbia had the opportunity to release They could have made ET. They passed on the ET script in favor of Starman, which then Carpenter goes on to make it eighty four incredibly weird how ET is just in Carpenter's orbit And it's like Carpenter is now at this point in his career He's like All right, I made some hits And now this is my dream project, the thing. Oh God, everyone hated it. Okay. Well, now I'm going to start from zero again. I'm going to do Christine. I'm going to do Starmint. and now I'm going to do what I really want Big trouble in L China Great movie, Bom You know, so it's like When left to his own devices, he makes great movies A. Big hits at the time, but find somebody now who doesn't like the thing or big trouble in Little China You know, like everyone does. even People who were like, you know, your son would probably your kids would probably like big troubled little Jina. My wife just bought me a big trouble in Little China shirt for Father's Day a week ago So like, yeah, it's like and again, I don't want to meet the people who don't like those movies. I guess is what I'm trying to say. Right. But I'm saying like there's lots of movies that you and I would like that your kids wouldn't sit through because they're of a different generation. I think something like bigig Trouble in Little China will always appeal to fourteen year old, always. aggreree, agreed. And I made my way through about third of the novel, Christine in preparation for this. I know that's not super professional. I almost read half of the book. I get it. It' a podcast about movies, not books. It's true, but I wanted to get a handle on some of the changes. It's a good book. It is Yeahah, so far, it's great. I remember reading it, you know, back in the day I know I saw the movie first. I read Christine after the movie, probably well after, but I remember liking it. I like you know, I like almost all of King's twelve or fifteen books I loved and he was just pure pulp horror. And yeah, he's written a lot of things great since then I guess I'm that guy who's like, oh, I like their first album the best I just like King old school pulpy horror of all his stuff that the most Well there's a synergy there. likeike the track record of King out of the gate, the track record of carpenter out of the gate you know, very similar and they're just unstoppable U unstoppable marathon of incredible hits, right? U that streak is is really unmatched from both of them. But what I in a perfect world Given when they both got their success We should have had three or four kings slash carpenter collaborations. Oh yeah Oh yeah, we should. I could have watched a hundred more of these, but right. like I mean, like get Carpenter involved with Romero on Creep Show. He would have deserved that. sureure. I'm really glad that you mentioned Romero because I think, you know, there aren't a huge amount of changes. made between the book and the movie. but one of the most significant ones, I think lends a little bit of credence to this theory about how the making of Christine was basically therapy for carpenter One of the biggest differences between the book and the movie is that You know, the book also takes place in nineteen seventy eight, just like the movie, but it takes place in Pennsylvania because the origin of this movie Killer C's name comes from Christine Romero, George Romero's wife because Stephen King was filming creephow in Pittsburgh with George and Christine Romero when he had the idea idea for the novel. So that's why it takes place in a small Pennsylvania town. That's why there are all these references to the Monroeville Mall. And again, takes place in nineteen seventy eight, which is also when Dawn of the Dead takes place in the Manilville Mall where it takes place. like all of these references, right and So that's all over the book Carpenter takes the story and moves it to California and shoots it literally in the same neighborhood where he shot Halloween I think that And I could be way off about this, but I think Carpenter changed the setting from Pennsylvania to the same neighborhood where he shot Halloween because it's a safe place for him to work and work out his feelings about the industry Like it's basically him going home going back to like, okay, I'm going literally going back to Haddenfield in my mind and wring the shit out Yeah. I mean, and the movie uses the location beautifully. It It feels like in anywhere medium sizeed, you know, small town C could be in Pennsylvania, could be California, doesn't m you know, the location is not all that essential to the, I mean, well, it's essentiial, you have to have a location. but the location itself is not all that integral to the movie. and I don't remember if the book, but, you know, it seems like it was a good change So what's funny is there's one little line that survives in the movie that doesn't make sense given the change in setting. And it's when Mr. Darnell, played by the incredible Robert Prosky, says he doesn't operate his garage so Arnie can go cruising on the orange belt which is a reference to the Allegheny County highighway system, which is literally like Pittsburgh. So that reference doesn't make sense in California. It makes sense in Allegheny County where Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania, but that line still survived the adaptation Yeah. And if anybody's wondering because they obviously they know I'm in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. That's like six and a half hours away. Penyvania is a bigig Lego block of a state and you know, you got Philadelphia in the far southeast and then you have Pittsburgh in the upper northwest And I've never been to Pittsburgh. It's a good six hour drive. And I always thought, maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought Monroeville was like right dead like kind of like in the center between the two But I could be wrong after these messages We'll be right back intalker Except that bulldozer kills. Carl Bts, twow men then. The survivors watch an unmanned bulloer It's rampage. Kill Dozer. Tonight in your city, someone is walking their dog Someone is crossing the street to their car Someone's kid is riding a bike home And they're counting on you to drive the speed limit Speeding accounts for nearly thirty percent of traffic fatalities, and most of those crashes don't happen on the interstate. They happen on the streets where people live Slow down. It's an act of care for the people around you So remember, speeding catches up with you Know the road and respect its limits Presented by Nita. Now back to your podcast So correct me if I'm wrong, Scott, but I think this is the first movie he works on where Dean Cundy doesn't shoot it Like Dean County had shot all of his movies up to this point I think you're right And then they didn't work together again until Big Trump a littleittle China. And then that was actually the last time they did work together And there's part of me that wonders if that's him taking a break from like I'm trying to shake off everything that's familiion just and kind of start. I don't know. likeike again. Yeah or let me watch shooting something else at the time orr it could have been, yeah, let me kind of start from scratch with new collaborators and maybe that will help my, you know, cause I don't know I know I love Dean Cundy who shot this This was shot by Aonald M. Morgan is the person who shot this. So Donald M. Morgan would also then shoot Starman for him year later because there I mean, there's like obviously there's a lot of low key moments that are really well shot, but All the car stuff in this movie, not just the special effects with the fire and the rebuilding and all, but the way the light bounces off of her hood And, you know, just the white wall tires, you know, reflecting oh Beautifully shot So he also shot Elvis, which was the made for TV movie that Carpenter made immediately after Halloween. So that's how that's how they by the way also shot skate toown USA And excessive force, two of my deep fried junk food favorites. So Dy don also shoot or excessive force to force on force? The only movie ever made that has the word force three times in the title Oh my Godd. Is that a real thing or you just making Yeah? No, no, that's the real title The wait, the sequel to excessive force is called excessive force d force on force. Yeah You are fucking shit. I love that movie and didn't know that. How the fuck is that possible I don't know. You don't have to be so vulgar about it No, I refuse to accept that this is the actual. Oh my God, confirmed Junk Food Cinem Eclusive, nineteen ninety five's excessive Force two colon force on force Bitch. It was confirmed. It was confirmed when Weinberg said it Force all for That is movie making by not committee but by cocaine. Are you kidding me Are you kidding? No I would forgive it if force by force on force was an actual term Then you'd be like, all right, you know, it's corny, but at least force on force is an actual term. It's not. It's not. It's like they were like, let's call it let's give even a legal term like double force perty. It's like that's not a thing. Excessive force two force on Glad that delights you so ad so so adamantly. Oh my God, I love it so much Oh, that's incredible. I'm going to throw in sidebar out of nowhere In about half hour, I'm recording an overheated on nineteen eighty To No, nineteen eighty one's the fun house Toby Hooper You like it I liked it the first time I saw it and have liked it progressively less every time I've seen it since. Yeah It takeakes way too long to get started. I mean, there's like a good half hour of nothing Yeah in that movie. but it really once it gets into the fun house and the horror angle, then it's then it's pretty solid Another staggering change from the book is that the book is told entirely from Dennis' perspective Dennis is I always tell you a story about a friend I had in high school kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, exactly Hey Junky Brian here from the Future past, the future beyond when we recorded this episode, but by the time you're hearing it'll be the you understand what I mean. So I've now worked my way through roughly sixty percent of the book, Christine. And I just wanted to address that yes, while the first third is told in the first person from Dennis's perspective, from that point forward, at least to where I am now, it adopts a more traditional third person narrative to tell the stories of Dennis as well as Arnie and Lee. Just wanted to keep you up to date on, I don't know, junk food book cllub. I don't know what the hell's happening right now. Anyway back to the episode Dennis is the character in this played by John Stockwell whoo I think is absolutely fantastic in this movie. He really is great and, you know, it has that that vibe of there's a nerd who's very awkward. And then there's the guy who he grew up with And he grew up into a more confident and secure guy, but he refuses to give up his nerd friend J because he has accustomed himself to high school life pretty darn well He is an admirable character in that way because in in a lot of movies he'd be like you know, barely talking to Arnie, but then kind of, you know, says, hey, man, stop being such a victim, B, bl But no, he's still his actual friend John Stockwell of Eddie in the Cruisers, my science project, later topop Gun It was sayated later became like like like Kith Gordon became a fairly successful director That is true. And it was stated that Kevin Bacon was reportedly offered the quote lead role but chose to do foot loooose instead. A, great choice for him B, I can't imagine him being considered for Arnie, so I have to assume by quote, lead role they meet Dennis Oh he would have been a great dentnist. Kevin Bacon. absolute fucolutely. I think I think what I like about John Stockwell is kind of what you were talking about. Like he is a character that walks that line really well. Like he's he's a jock, but he's also best friends from somebody for who's an outcast. And yet you buy that. There's never a moment in this movie where that feels forced or phony. You totally buy that these two have been friends for so long They just kind of went in different directions in high school, but stayed close. So there's never a moment of falsity in their relationship. And again, the slow demise of their friendship is nothing short of a tragedy and is played with so much heart and empathy because of these two actors. No, yeah, I bet you that was part of Carpenter's marching orders, which was, hey, let's tell this like a breakup of an old friendship And it's sad and it's tragic desespite the fact that it's also about a killer car Let's let's keep the humanity first and, you know, front and center. Because like it is about the dissolution of a sweet friendship. u, you know, and because of outside interests, we've all had that friend who got a job and you you became close less, you know, not not as close or got a girlfriend that, you know and he or You know, G a car, you know, and got, you know, just turned out to be totally, you know, those are really formative years, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, you know, And you could see how, oh yeah, somebody changed that much in six months? Yeah When you're seventeen Yeah. abbsolutely. Yeah. and it threw me off a little bit because there's no you know, packneed narration. But now that I think about it, This is entirely Dennis's movie Everything that happens with Arnie like Arnie goes off for a while and comes back weird. Oh Yeah things. Yeah. it's all from Dennis' perspective pretty much. I mean, you still you do have plenty of Arnie and the car alone But for the most part, the drama, the actual character beats and everything, that all comes through Dennis and to a lesser degree, Alexandra Paul as the new girlfriend, Lee Cabot biggest change by far, like they've moved the setting, they've tweaked the perspective just a little bit. It's still very much Denis's movie. The biggest change by far and most fundamental change The movie makes from the book is that opening scene where we see Christine kill someone right off the line, which suggests as the poster's tagline echoes, the car was born Bad. and the George Sarr good song.. How how do we feel about that? I I had a point to talk about this How do we feel about the use of George? Thorough goods b the bad to the bone for the fifties Detroit Assembly line origin scene I like it. It ain't subtle, but I like it And I'm not I'm not here to knock movies for being obvious. I would I wouldn't have a brand otherwise. No, yeah. I mean, like it it's, you know, you get it It's like again, if you're dealing with the concept of car that is somehow supernaturally evil. We don't know how Is it possessed by the devil? it Is it like are the parts evil? We don't know. it doesn't matter You know, like the why just makes it sillier. So just so just get it across with such force of bad to the bone. the car the song knows it, you know, the the Robert Blossom, the creepy old eventual seller knows it. They know it's evil Uh canan anyone explain how? No And in some movies, the explanation of how something is evil is part of the fun And Christine, it doesn't matter. It just Born bad So it's the thing for me is that that song is not only anachronistic for the for the opening scene, it's also sort of at odds with the myriad doop oldies that actually characterize the car. likeike the car almost speaks old rock and roll, like old fifties rock and roll. Oh, it's a great moment when they're at the drive through and the girlfriend starts choking and over the radio you hear your're mine. And we belong together and you know, again, not subtle Butis is trying to get in the car. You keepep on knocking, but you can't come in. Yeah, yeah, not subtle, but really Kind of clever, you know? I'll give it that. I'll give it that the George Throwgood is exactly as subtle as any of the other old fashioned rock and roll songs are chosen. but that gives the car a voice. And I would have loved to have seen And it adds kind of a fifties, you know, a throwback vibe to a more quote unquote, innocent time, was it? Christine could easily take place in nineteen fifty eight. It doesn't have to be, you know, and it was born in nineteen fifty eight and it's evil So it's like kind of a reminder of oh, you think that everything from your parents generation was benign and sweet. No, this car came from there too. They could have gone full pennywise and have the first half of the story take place in the fifties and then the carars defeated and they come back as adults and have defeated again And you know, it's normal for a horror fan to want some kind of backstory because more backstory equals more creeps, more scares, more legend, more mythology I truly think that when you're dealing with this kind of villain Explanation wise, less is more As much as I love this song and apologies to my father in the Great Beyond, this may be my biggest problem with the movie is the use of this song to bookend it because Well, it's twofld. One, I think is a legitimate reason. One is just me being an insane person and it's just an entirely esoteric thing. But first, I would have loved to have seen them book in this the way that they do the soundtrack, where there are points in the movie where they're driving around in nineteen seventy eight listening to current covers off the songs from the fifties. Like there's a wanderer cover that sounds like it's done by like Christy Heine or somebody that Dennis is listening to. I'm like I would have liked to have seen that. Like start the, start the movie W something impressive like Bad to the bone, but from the era so that it makes more sense and then end the movie with the fucking cover of that same song. The way that they kind of did it throughout the movie where you're hearing modern covers of a lot of those fifty songs when Dennis is driving around. Like I would have liked to have seen them continue that out, extrapolate it, make it the book ends of the movie as opposed to this very non subtle George Throw good thing. And I think the non Legitimate reason that I don't like the use of this is like, yeah, we're signaling that the car is evil the same way we signal that the kid from probleblem childild is evil And I just feel like that lives in my brain a little too much that now I can't hear that song and you're using that song to signal something bad without thinking about that ugly fucking kid from Problem Child U Yeah, I mean, again, according to Wikipedia, it says King's novel The source material made it clear that the car was possessed by the evil spirit of its previous owner, Roland Let. Whereas the film version shows that the evil spirit of the car manifested itself on the day it was built I'm glad you brought us back to the point that was I got too into the weeds with George Thurrooughgrood. so I'm glad you brought us back to the point. The biggest change here with the showing the car coming off the line evil is that the novel suggests. that the car takes on the evil spirit of its original owner who was a vile angry sociopath, which is still supernatural, but very different, right? It's more of like nature versus nurture kind of a situation In that case, nurture instead of nature, the movie is more like nature instead of nurture But in the DVD commentary, the screenwriter Bill Phillips says that he cut the novel plotline of the dead owner's spirit possessing Arnie and actually causing Christine to kill, because it not just because it saved time and compressed the story, but he didn't want it to look like they were copying an American wereerewolf in London, where Jack kind of does the same thing to David. He didn't want the movie to feel derivative It's another thing is the songs in American Warf in London are used kind of a lot of the same way that the songs are used here. And that all makes sense. and to me, it's a smart screenplay because it cuts o The car is evil and it kills people that piss off its owner. Okay. That's already a potentially silly concept. It's not silly in the way Carpenter does it. But it's now but like you explaining that the car is possessed by the spirit of its first owner That doesn't make it less silly That's true. and Keith Gordon or Arnie Cunningham like slowly starting to act like Roland Le Bay and you're showing it clearly that doesn't make the film less silly, but you know what happens is he starts to act older and he starts to use some of his words like shitter I get those shitterers and it's like it's alluded to in the movie, but not filled out that he is starting to you know, these older men, the car owner. U And it's there for you to pick there if you want it, but it's not essential I truly yeah, I truly think that The less you explain about Christine, the better it is. And and that goes pretty much for most monsters, you know? The more explanation you get about Freddie Kruger, the less scary he is You're right. And I see what you're saying, like column A is silly, column B is silly with extra shoe leather Of course if that's the choice, you're going without. column A is silly with a question mark for you to fill in the blanks, you know, like, is he acting like Leet kind of But that's it You just kind of pick it up on your own Um and Keith Gordon. I just cannot get over the scene So good. parents are kind of I mean, they're not like villains, but they're not very warm or supportive Get your get your raid spray out because these two are wasps. Yeah, they are You know, Kind of u, you know, unloving, uncaring seeming seemingly You know, very domineering and my way or the highway and That's, you know, a lot of parents. And then there's the scene where Arnie turns on his dad and shoves him up against the wall and You know, he's still kind of a small guy and everything, but his dad is so shocked and seems so terrified that it's such a great moment in this movie. I'm going to do a second take on that, ready Gee, I haven't seen wasps this big since I went to the mononsters of shitty Rock tour Wasp. anybody anybody Wasp Yeah Okay Uh what did did they saying round and round No, that was that was not Wp unfortunately I think that was Rat. That was rat. Yes. is it different You know what, but that comparison was warranted. Look Keith Gordon you're welcome. Keith Gordon is Arnie. John Kusack also auditioned for this role, which I think is interesting. gives an amazing performance in his even in his nerdy persona, he's witty, he's fun. like you can see how Dennis would be friends with him. So he manages to be weak and fragile at first and then morph into what a character like Arnie would contemplate strength to look like. It's kind of the same affectation of cool that Peter Parker puts on in Spiderm Man three where it's like, this is what it means to be cool. And so there's this sort of y charm, but the charisma carries him a long way be his confidence, you know, it's clearly a facade, but we're buying into it just because he's like happier He's got more confidence. But then that devolving into full on creep and then to scary misanthrope. likeike it's just such a layered performance that he really hits every single stop along the complete dissolution of this character, it's amazing I've always been fascinated by Keith Gordon's career, smallmall sidebar here He had his debut in Jaws two as like the nerdy guy. And then he does some great work in Brian de Palma's dress to Kill And then he did this and he's also has a good part in Legend of Billy Jean. Pis Fery is fair. and back to school as Rodney's long suffering son Um He's even more interesting as a director. You should when he did the chocolate war which is amazing from eighty eight He did a Midnight Clear, which is a war movie from ' ninety two, which is amazing. He did Mother Knight, which is I believe a Vonagood adaptation, which is amazing And in two thousand, he did a movie with Billy Creredp and Jennifer Connelly called Waking the Dead And then in zero three, he did an adaptation of Dennis Potter's the singing detective He's like batting a thousand as a director and They're all good. Chocolate were and midnight clear, especially And then he's spent the rest of his career. he's been directing television Since then. I mean, like he's got tons of credits on bargo, Homeland, Legion, betteretter C Saul the leftovers, you know, Dexter, a lot of Dexter. the killing. He's had a great career as a director. So I've always been a fan of Keith Gordon How much time on the set of the Legend of Billy Jean do you think was Keith Gordon and Helen Slater talking about working with Janot Zwark Jen of W Yeah. thatZ we just talked about Supergirl last week. So it's so funny that we're talking about talking about Keith Gordon who started off in Jaws two. What else did you know Janot's work is probably best remembered for the Jaws two And then what would be the next one? Proably somewhere in time, I would imagine How what about Santa Claus the movie? Oh God, I hope a lot of people don't remember him for that because that means it'd have to remember. The one thing I learned covering using, you know, on my own podcast comma overhated is that Santa Claus the movie is very well regarded overseas in UK. They love it We've said it a thousand times on this show, Scott, every movie is somebody's favorite After these messages We'll be right back My name is Stephen King. I've written several motion pictures. But I wantna tell you about a movie called Maximum Overdrive This is the first one I've directed. Wow dick' going on around here. A lot of people have directed Stehen Kig novels and stories. And I finally decided if you want something done right, you ought to do it yourself. What? It was my first picture as a director. And you know something? I sort of enjoyed it I just wanted someone to do Stephen King right. What the fuck? So come and spend some time with me and my friends at the Dixie Boy. Spend some time in the dark. Please don't let me in. me. I'm gonna scare the hell out of you It's a promise. You're gonna get us in awful lot of trouble, man. We already in trouble. Maximum terror. Jesus coming in He is. Maximum King. Maybe tomorrow will be our world again. Dino D Laurentis presents Stephen King's. Maximum oververdrive Tonight in your city, someone is walking their dog Someone is crossing the street to their car Someone's kid is riding a bike home And they're counting on you to drive the speed limit Speeding accounts for nearly thirty percent of traffic fatalities, and most of those crashes don't happen on the interstate. They happen on the streets where people live Slow down It's an act of care for the people around you. So remember Speeding catches up with you Kow the road and respect its limits. Presented by NTa. Now back to your podcast Did you recognize the ears one? actor in this movie from the Friday of the thirteenth series. I did. It's the he plays one of the fucking Conies buddy in this movie. I recogned him immediately as the guy who very unwisely puts on the Indian headdress and dances around in Friday the thirteh partart two and then the cop shows up. Yeah, but what is the key what his name is Stuart Charno. In this movie, he plays Don Vandenberg, one of the four one of the three lackeys of our head bullies. Speaking of wasps, Don Vanderberg, come on What's your dynasty fuck off Vandenburg. Yeah. U u u And what is that character's claim to fame from Friday to the thirteenth part two I thought it was the Indian headdress, Is that not it? No, well, okay, that, yeah, sure, but what else That's that's all I remember. Two is not when I remember the diner and never is seen again. He survives He's Maven in the two thousand two Royal Rumble. He was never technically eliminated. So I guess that means he won. That's what I was referring to Rumble's rooyals, right. I was people listening know what the fuck I'm talking about. Sorry about that. She has a bigger part I believe in the book. the late and beautiful Kelly Preston gives a nice performance as a pretty girl who might be interested in dennis or might not U Kelly Preston in this movie as Roseanne who literally would be the prettiest girl at any other school in any other movie. But in this, she's the girl who can't seem to get the attention of Dennis And of course, which is funny because she'd shortly hereafter appear with him in topop Gun because he plays Cougar in topop Gun. right. What's insane is there's a line in the book where Dennis actually says that Lee, who's the character he's actually in love with Lee makes Roseanne, I fucking teextxas this to. Lee made Roseanne look like a tree sloth taking a nap. I'm like, what the fuck? comeome on pooor Kelly Preston cannot get a fair shake in this movie. Yeah, she's the girl that Arnie is wooing and then she becomes friendly and even romantical with Dennis Alexandrira Paul had a nice run in the eighties They're both they're both beautiful. But the kudos to the casting director because they're very different The friendship between Dennis and Arnie is so much of what makes this movie. In fact, my favorite sequence in the film is not even horror related. It's the scene where Dennis is going out to catch a pass during a football game and sees Arnie kissing Lee, the girl that he Dennis likes on the other side of the end zone. J right in front and they're kissing where right in front of Christine right in front of the car. But like the music, the pacing, the fluidity of the camera movement, the clear emotional response, despite the lack of dialogue, it's like it itss own short film No, it's beautiful. and he falls and injures himself. And you're like, well, it was both the shock of him with the girl And Christine's influence as well. Yeah ye, it's a great moment Let's talk just a bit if we could about this the Roberts Blossom, the Robert Bosky, the Harry Dean Stanton of this movie, three unbelievably great character actors. Yeah, we got we got to run through this murderer's row of characters Don't let me forget back to Don't let me forget to come back to the bully in this movie though because I wantan to talk for a while about him. William Oraer as Buddy Repington? Yes, yes. we definitely got to good him thirty six. He's twenty three. That's whats crazy. is you're absolutely right. I had the same fucking thought. evenven when I watched it when I revisited it for this recording. I'm like, he must be in his forties. He was twenty three. That's a hard twenty three on that guy. But it's ironic because he's not your buddy friend and he's not your friend guy And what's funny is though, in a lot of times it makes sense to make the bully. like a twenty three year old Yeah because when you were sixteen the eighteen year old It feels like, you know a wise old Jedi knight who teaches you about things like heavy metal magazine and throwing stars Well, there's in the book, they talk about how buddy had failed multiple times. So he is twenty in the po. So it's like this is actually really close. Now there is something so specifically evil about a Stephen King bully and I want to talk about this. Oh hell yeah. Don't get me wrong. All bullies are scumbags, but a Stephen King bully is always rareing to commit a little homicide at the drop of a hat They are yeah, they're not just yeah hopefully the bullies you deal with would be a little mean. you drop your books at a puddle and then they they cackle as they walk away. like the vill the book the bullies in this and stand by me and it U are like yeah, like you said, two two whiskers away from homicide. Also, no matter what time period in which the story takes place Bllies in a Stephen King story always have switch plates. Always I have no comment on that. It's like they're all auditioning to be in a stage production of Blackboard jungle. What the fuck is happening And and as a guy who loves the, you know, misfit strikes back, I've seen Tons of bully performances, tons and tons and That scene where he's like sicks a knife through his bag lunch. And he's like laughing at him. I mean I guess it's not hard to shoot that kind of, you know, create that kind of villain on on in a visual sense Damn is he nasty? Like, you know, I mean, that is a compliment to the actor and the director and the screen and the cinematographer because man is he hateful? I I wish we had seen William M Strainer and more stuff. I think he's really good in this Yeah, I also love that Nicholas Cage auditioned for this role because that's a completely different movie God, could you imagine that would just be like more icing on top? Is this your launch? Is this your launch? Y launch! Okay. Okay. Like it would have been a completely different movie. Yeah, there's so many good people in this movie. Also, let's throw some love to the woman who plays Arnie's mom Christina Belford. uh and who, you know, you get the kind of mom she is by just like one scowl and the folding of her arms. That's it. getet it. Like, you know, like she's throughout, but like you get what kind of mom she is in ten seconds Yeah, she only did four films. She was much more of a television actress. In fact, I think a lot of people our age would probably know her as Oh she was I think one of she was a she was the daughter of one of the u u golden girls I'm trying to remember which Golden Girl she was the daughter. She was like a recurring character on the Golden Girls where she was one of their daughters. Okay Yeah, but anyway, like she's she's really good in this and the book goes into more of her character and actually her relationship Dennis, which is like Dennis feels like she's being very cruel to him because he's not doing enough to protect Arnie. and it's putting this strain on a relationship with a woman that he's considered a second mother his whole life. It's a really fascinating dynamic in the book that you see a little bit of in the way that Christine Belford plays this role. and that's terrific But yes, the murderer's row of character actors, starting with Robert's bllossom, notot Robert blossoms, Robert's bllossom It's kind of like attorneyss general, right He's just an amazing actor. who was born in nineteen twenty four, passed away in twenty eleven And he was in like close encounters, escape from Alcatraz. He was in a lot of Westerns when he was younger Yeah. He's just, you know one of those character actors who unless you're somebody like me or you, would say, oh, I definitely know him, but maybe not the name Yeah, he's the dirty, sleazy old man in this George LeBay who sells Arnie of the car. And I have to say final film. Sam Ramy' quick in the dead Yeah Beautiful. He was great in that Moving into adulthood and watching more and more movies, it was really upsetting to hear the kindly old snow shoveled neighbor from Home Alone talking about how the smell of a new car is the finest smell in the world next to Pussy. maybe it for Pussy. And then I saw him in deranged an exploitation film loosely based on the life of Ed Gean. Yeah from seventy four. I know that one. I. e. they couldn't get the life rights to the actual story of Ed Gean. and suddenly I desperately wished I only had to listen to the kindly old snow shhovel neighbor from H alone talk about Pussy because dear God It derang it pretty damn creepy. It's not if I remember My my thoughts because I definitely rented it. I liked it It's it's fucking weird, man. It's, but it's like's, it's well done for that type of movie for sure. What is Robert Proski is channeling Every You know middle aged raunchy like you said, my way or the highway kind of Its when he talks. Thereays disgusting things to see gauge your reaction. pleasant in the extreme. but He has one moment in this movie where he tries to be kind and finds that it, you know, doesn't really fit him and he gets angry because he feels a little emotional. and man What a great moment that is when when he says to Arnie, well, you you know, you could pick around in the trash and find some stuff to fix your car. And, you know And Marnie says, well, think about it And he's like, oh, don't think about it too long, fucker. Yeah. you know, And like, you know, his his one kind moment was This is my rare moment of humanity and you're throwing it back in my face. Fuck you. Yes, exactly. And then you see how a character becomes like that when the when the, you know, random moment of kindness is kind of ignored You could see how he got so cynical and nasty and He' obviously a rotten character in ninety nine percent ninety percent of the movie It's he's so Fascinating and funny and colorful, Not funny like haaha, but funny like Raunchy In my notes, he is Robert Motherfucking Prosky as Mr. Darnell, the guy who owns the garage where Arnie iss going to go and work on Christine. He is so He's honestly so gross and so greasy and I'm going to put this in terms that I think my friend Scott Weinberg would appreciate In this movie, Robert Prosky makes Bertt Young look like George Clooney. Bd young. Yes, Okaykay, yes. And then I no movie is ever hurt by putting Harry Dean Stanton in it And this movie he's great, but kind of a Thankless, semi pointless role It is because it doesn't like So he plays a detective looking into the killings of the bullies Yeah. Yeah. So here's the interesting things, Sott, and we'll get into the kills here in a second, but the interesting thing about the structure of this movie plays into the change that was made by the screenwriter from the book and that because we it's structured almost like Halloween Because at the top of the movie, we get a kill And then it's about twenty five minutes before credits before the blood bath happens and we lose like four more people. So it's structured almost identically to Halloween And in fact, according to Bill Phillips The movie technically didn't have enough violence to justify an R rating, but they were afraid that if the movie went out with the PG because PG thirteen didn't exist, nobody would go see this horror movie that was PG rated. So they purposely inserted the F word and its derivatives all throughout the movie to get the R rating because yeah, the violence is so few and far between and a lot of it is suggested more than explicit Probably because Carpenter had just come off a movie with really explicit violence that he got hammered over and was like, I'm gonna be more restrained on this one Hey, should we make this kill more gory? And you could almost in a cartoonish way, see Carpenter going No No or We're not doing that. We're absolutely not doing that. But A the first of the bully gang is killed, which takes place really deep into the movie It necessitates a very late introduction of this character who is from the book, Detective Jenkins, who's trying to solve that murder and is found very specific rubings from a very specific paint job that he knows Arnie's car has. So that's why he's kind of interrogating. But I just Harry Danne Stayon, one of the best to ever do it. character actor Royal like even if he was in the movie for thirty seconds as pharmacist, it doesn't matter. He any timee he's in a movie, it elevates the movie And yeah, it is kind of like he shows up two or three times to question Dennis or Lee or Arnie. And you know, you could see, o, he has already matched the paint, which makes him smart then it hits a then the cop has hit a dead end because How's he supposed to make the leap from This is your car's paint to The car smashed into somebody but is now completely pristine and and Bea and undamaged Christine too, Christine Christine Okay, so here's how good Harry Dean Stanton is in this movie, Scott. card as Harry Dean Stanton driving in this movie Oh I gosh, I don't remember You know why you don't remember? because he's that fucking engaging. And here's my John Oliver moment. You don't remember despite the fact that he's also driving a Plymouth Fury. Oh, wow, that is a good John Oliver He is literally also driving a plan with Fury, which we see in the parking lot when he interrogates him. But because Harry Dean Stanton is so fucking engaging, you don't even notice that element Interesting I I'm trying to think of now the kills are U Vandenberurg kind of get when Christine drives through a gas station let's go in order Let's go in order Let's go in order. So right. We got the factory worker in Detroit who spills a cigarh on the new seat, which pisses off Christine. and gets strangled by something largely offs screen. This is how much I feel like Carpenter was worried about the blowback from the thing. We don't even know how the first guy in this movie dies They just open the car door and he's dead He doesn't have any wounds. We literally don't know How he died So that's weird But then sever like a whole movie later Mucci, the first member of Buddy's gang, gets crushed on that loading dock. and that's an incredible kill because the car is literally shearing off parts of its own chassis to fit down this narrow corridor and squash him It's right I believe I did you get to that point in the book because I'm pretty sure it's pretty gross gross in the book I not g seeee that I've only a third of the way through the book, so nobody's gotten killed yet. Yeah it's crazy Brian from the Future Past book Club again and yes, can confirm the death of Mucci in the book is graphic. Kid gets turned into hamburger meat Anway back to the episode I mean, there's a little nod to that when when Harry Dean says something like, you know, do you know what that looked like? They had to scoop him up off the ground with a shovel. somethingomet like he saidays something like Banarny says, Isn't that what you do with shit scrape it up with a shovel? Like's such God it's poetry. And then we have this big bang boom moment where we're taking out the rest of the gang and it starts with Rich who's a member of buddy's gang and by the way, is played by the same actor, who's the kid that Bill Murray gives the electric shocks to in ghostbusters Oh literally got the same fucking haircut. He's like he came off a one set onto this one. Oh nice. that would be what? is that is that Richard? Richie? Rich is the name of that character Rich. Yeah, Richie Trelawney, Stephven Tash as Richard Trelawney. Okaykay So he is Malcolm Denar Denar out And so Rich Christine is basically now chasing she really is the iconic one chasing him down the highway while she's on fire No, no, no, Rich is in the car with Buddy and they're breaking up, they're picking up Vanderberg, right? And they all they start to notice this car following them. They pull into this gas station. This whole gas station sequence is great because because Christine is sentient and knows that she will regenerate, There is no hesitation. Like it just comes in and immediately plows into his car and then does it again to the point that it plows the car into the garage where Rich is standing and squashes him. he's a goner. And but isn't that what happens to Don Vandemberurg. No, So Vanderberg's in the garage too. and it's like, oh my God, what just happened? and all the gasoline leaking from Buddy's car that's just been smashed in ignites and he goes up. he gets, he gets flash fried. And then obviously if I was wrong, it's buddy. who gets the iconic running down the highway from the flaming car chill being chased by a flaming Christine because of the explosion runun overver whileal And in that moment I mean, I could you could you could make that sequence double the length and I'd like it just as much. I Love That whole moment that it's, you know, it's Dark and creepy, but I just love the the music combined with the the visual of the car chasing behind him. And then again very ungory kill you kind of see from a distance and hear it run over him and And that's it and it leaves a bloody I mean, a an inflamed body. Yep. And then mister Darnell, Robert Prosky gets crushed against the steering wheel by a sentient car seat It's like a really slow like kind of agonizing death that Robert Prosky suffers just for being a gross asshole throughout the whole movie it's been Decades. since I read the book, but something about that something yell is yelling at me that his death is different in the book. Maybe he gets strangled by seat belelt or something. I don't know there's more to it. there's definitely more to it, I think in the book. Again I haven't gotten that far because I'm only a third of the way through the book. so nobody's been killed y Um I was talking like but people get killed Let's talk about the music in this because once again, it's Carpenter and his partner, Alan Howorth Um, providing this incredible score And what I have always loved about a carpenter' score as much as he's like it's weird because it's like we'veard him do the score for his own movies before this, but the thing was actually done by Ino Moracone. So again, it's almost like him being like, I'm not going to work with Cundi this time. I am going to do the music I'm going to do everything the opposite of the thing. So I'm going to take the score duties back. And what I've always loved about a Carpenter score is that he produces the music on these highly electronic synthesizers. the notes and chord progressions that he plays and arranges sound so inescapably gothic that his music sort of, therefore represents an almost perversely subversive paradox of classic and newew age horror Like he just lives in both of those universes so well Well, yeah, the stuff that he writes is old school, but it's done very synthy which was very modern at the time and he just he he Stes to have a pinch on for just basic primal heartbeat level notes, bump, bump, bump, you know. There's the I don't know, I don't know. How many people would rank Christine among his best scores It's just every time he does his own music, you're like, yeah, that's why because he's so fucking good at it I think it's his most underrated score. I think there's a reason why when he tours with his music, plays a lot of music from this film I saw him here When usually? Yeah, Oh yeah Oh that's awesome. Yeah the music in Christine is excellent and it's once again perfectly setting the mood. But what's different about Christine is that he is so reserved and exacting about when he uses it It is not as ubiquitous as it is in his other movies. like Basically what he does is you have this like You have the music like of the car itself speaking with all these like old doop and and oldldies, right? But then right up to the point that the car becomes full like the car is menacing people with oldies rocks And then right at the moment where she becomes violent, that's when his score takes over So it's like the movie shifting into scary drive, right? It is absolutely tremendous and I don't think it gets talked about enough fans love to talk about his main themes. But like the fog is a score that I particularly love. And evenven aside from the pounding, you know, scary moments, It's just beautiful score in the ethereal, creepy ominous, call it what you want. but The entire score is beautiful, not just the pulse pounding getaway, oh my go, suspense moments of the score, but all of it All of it. yeah Buddy being chased, as you said by a flaming Christine has that amazing piece of music. But I think just as amazing is the song that plays as Christine is regenerating in the garage. Yeah. Or what about that sting that happens a couple times when Christine puts on her headlights? Headlights. Absolutely It's like here I am, you know, announcing her arrival a spaceship landing Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he'd amazing. I mean, I love Carpenter and you know, whenever you say stuff like that, you always have to seem like you have to follow it up with. Well he's not flawless. He's not you know, I don't want to even do that I don't want go without saying no filmmaker is flawless. you know, no artist is one hundred percent consistent , but every single director wishes they had the batting average of a John Carter.ight. That's all good Even the lesser movies make the good ones feel better like even better, you know? Yeah And so even with the caveat that yeah, nobody's perfect, I still just love Carpenter. I love him as a director and a writer and I love him as a composer. And He's he's he's an original. sayay what you will, but, you know, you don't find a lot of filmmakers like this who are, you know You know, a lot of filmmakers get fucked over by Hollywood after a bomb and they are they work their ass off to get back in. And after a while, I think it was Cheby Chase just broke him on memoirs and he just said, fuck it, I'm done I got it you know, I'll come back here and there to make a couple of things, but I'm tired of playing this fucking game And I'm sure that by that point and definitely now he's got enough to, you know bank roll to just live And you know, just It's not worth it to you know, when you make something like the thing and then Hollywood treat you like a pariah Okay, it bombed. all right. That's not the director's fault. Tons of great movies that don't make money Iron giant, Dark City. I mean, we could talk about it for hours. U It is not You have a podcast where you literally do that Yeahes. Uh, there're there' again. I mean, like Was it maybe the studio putting it out at the wrong spot? Maybe save it till the end of the year? Was it just it was never going to be a hit because it was more graphic than audiences in nineteen eighty two wanted? That's possible too. You didn't have options back then to oh, we'll go direct to video, direct to streaming, blah, blah, blah. It was either you're a hit or you're a bomb. That was it K kind of in the middle like Christine. but Um You know, I refuse to blame Carpenter for the failure of the thing It's absurd because as a film ex film critic and as a film lover you can't deny that the thing turned out the way he wanted You know, it's not always easy to tell what a director's intent was But for something like the thing, Uh, I think he nailed what he wanted Yeah, every piece of him is on that screen And just to go back to that scene for a second of Christine regenerating like really One of the selling points of this whole movie is again, the effects.onishing When you realize that it was done only with in camera effects Yeah much weaking and how much twisting and how long it must have taken do that sequence in a preCG era. G God. fifteen percent of the budget on this movie went to just the cars and replicas of the cars and usable stunt version of the car itself. Like by the end of filming, all but two of the Christine models were destroyed. And this sequence where she has been smashed up by Buddy and his gang and just absolutely destroyed and then basically you know Arnie's like, show me what you can do and these tubes, like these hydraulic pumps inside of the car, right? So they make this this stunt double Plymouth Fury that it's made of plastic, but it's made to look more like metal on camera than actual metal, but it's all bent and deformed. And then the pumps were attached to cables, which were then attached to the car's bodywork and they would compress it, right And so they took a normal looking Plymouth Fury, the stunt Plymouth Fury, just like in its normal form. And then they use these hydraulic pumps to suck the car in, like to basically try to collapse it in on itself. And then they just use that footage and they reverse it. So what you get is you get a car basically like stretching itself back out likeike some sort of bizarre stretch Armstrong coming back to normal form. Right And it's like incredible like we've all seen this kind of technique done in other things, but In the camera, you're like, well, even if they're doing it in reverse, how are they doing this Yeah it it's so incredible. I think the effects on this Roy Arbagest who did the special effects on this movie, the mechanical effects and I saw it with my cousin back in the day and that's all we talked about. That sequence where she rebuilds herself is just astonishing A these messages We'll be right back Is it a phantom? a demon I yourself. Well there's nowhere to turn There was no driver in the car. Universal presents the car Tonight in your city, someone is walking their dog Someone is crossing the street to their car Someone's kid is riding a bike home And they're counting on you to drive the speed limit Speeding accounts for nearly thirty percent of traffic fatalities, and most of those crashes don't happen on the interstate. They happen on the streets where people live sllow down It's an act of care for the people around you. So remember Speeding catches up with you Kow the road and respect its limits. Presented by Nita. Now back to your podcast. And then of course the final showdown and the way that they You know, it's basically now it's Dennis has is like, I've got to save my friend from this car likeike this car is destroying him. I've got I've got to stop him. Again, it's it's very tragic. Like he knows he's going to have to go in there and either convince Arnie to get rid of this car or he's going to have to stop Arnie. So it's Yeah trying to destroy the car. Uh and you know, already in his full Obsessions flash possession mode will not allow it And Christine ends up killing him Well, and it's one of those things that's taken away from the book that they don't include in the movie is that Arnie and Dennis spent their summer doing road like construction work to earn money, which is how Dennis knows how to drive a fucking bulldozer, which is what he's using in the in the garage in Robert Prosky's garage to try and take down Christine. And what I love about this is it's a massive fucking boat of a nineteen fifties car And the way they frame this, they still are able to allow the car to sneak up on people in this garage. Oh another thing that I love is during this big battle between the bulldozer or forklift or whatever and Christina' There's moments where he like punctures the hood She starts rebuilding herself again right there. Yeah Yeah g. Yeah. I mean, it's like a callb backack to the earlier scene and it also is an underline of this ain't going to be easy, man. It's not a regular car that you could just smash. And I love that we spend the whole movie not knowing How much agency Arnie has in these kills and how much he is an accomplice? Is it just the card doing it? And we find out in this final fight when there's this incredible fake out like jumpcare almost. or's not a fake out. it's a jum scare of Arnie just appearing after Dennis takes a fucking bulldozer to Christine and you realize he was in the car the whole time. Right. and I always thought is that him because there is a pause before he, you know, gets shot out of the windshield Did Christine do that to him? Did she throw him with the seat throughrough the winchm And I love the like, you know, we finally, we've gotten Christine in the compactor and it's just a cube now. and then we got this great fake out gag of the landfill worker carrying a boom boox playing oldldiess Rock after Christine's been smashed And they're all like, oh God, no, she's coming back and it's just this dude carrying a boombox. I thought that was a nice little joke Yeah, but then she says, I hate rock and roll I mean, at this point I'm guessing she would And by the way, George Thoroughgood at some point was they filmed a cameo of him as another landfill employee. But apparently it didn't work. so they cut it out of the movie. But then there's just that last little twitch of the the cubed wreckage of Christine just gets that last little twitch and we hear Thorough goodood again and we go to credits. Yeahah, you always have to have the sequel teaser in a lot of horror movies in the eighties. It was a happy ending, then we pann down under the porch. There's more critter eggs d. you know, and in this one it's She's trying to rebuild herself again. Yeah Like the Iriron Giant. If I can ro this interest it will never go. It doesn't meant to be that way I don't know why I. So you started off at the beginning of the show asking me where I would put Christine among the catalog And I have to tell you, Scott, every sing Well, you know what? donon't answer yet Don't answer that yet How about we do it this way R right, we'll borrow something from overhated All right, wouldould you rather watch? Dan or Dark Star Christie Would you rather watch Christine or Asault on precinct Christine The mash up movie we always need it. I mean That's going to be a salt just because that's one of my absolute favorites Okay, would you rather watch Christine or Ho Christine I'm going to watch Hllo Christine on that one. Yes, I agree. Now here's where we're getting into some tough ones Would you rather watch Christine or the fog Christine See, I think I would give just a whisker over to the fog just a bit because I love the vibe of it, the location and the isolation. but They're two of my favorites. I'm okay, wouldould you rather watch Christine or escape from New York? So this is what I'm saying, Scott. Every single time I watch Christine I like it more and I feel like I elevate it higher and higher up the list. And this time especially realizing how deeply personal it is and how much of a metaphor for his career at the time and how it works on that like metatextual level I have literally been like people used to call me steak Piskin becausecause my last name is Salisbury and I love snake Puskin and Asalum excuse me and then escape from New York so much. That it was like part of my identity, right But it that time Dink a tattoo on your bicep I might get a snake tattoo. It's entirely possible. But at this point in time I'm gonna to say it's Christine Really? Yeah. there's justing. I think scape from New York is Yeah. It'sust about the perfect version of that movie. Like there's nothing in I think Escape from New York is just, yeah, like a perfect movie. I truly believe that I just really get wrapped up in the fact that in a killer car movie Carpenter is doing some of the most intense character work of his entire care. Oh yeah. Oh it it does. It has heart. It has real sincere heart. And relatable emotions in a potentially ridiculous concept. I totally agree. I get that. So I'm going Christine and that's but that's new. If you had asked me before this most recent viewing, I would have said escape from New York. Oh I'm glad that you love like they, you know, you're growing a bigger love for Christine. Would you rather watch Christine or the thing? It's the thing. Like come on. it's the thing Would you rather watch Christine or Staran Christine Darmin is beautiful, but yes I love that it's him being, you know, for the most, you know, there's there's very little darkness in Starman. It is hopeful and sweet and kind and tear jerky. Karen Allen is amazing. Jeff Bridges is too, but Karen Allen has the hard part in that movie, I think. Yeah. Okay, wouldould you rather watch Christine or Big trouble in little Big trouble in a little coat. Big trouble a little China Yeah, I'm going big from a little China on that one.. It's again, like escape from New York. I think it's one hundred percent what he meant to make. and It feels good watching it. There's so much fun shit in that movie. And thirty years later, forty years later, people are still discovering it and the idea that The main character is not the hero, but the sidekick is just my most favorite thing maybe the carpenter ever did All right. Would you rather watch Christine or Prince of Darkness. Prince of Darkness is the scarier movie, Christine is the better movie. I much prefer Christine in this case. I think Prince of Dark, I mean, it's a movie that I have tried over my entire life three or four times to like more And it will not take I think it's got a couple of really cool ideas and a character actors and it's a couple of good scares, but a lot of it is just so much gobbledygook, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. U I love it, but it's it's not as good a movie as Christine. It's just not. I I recommend Prince of Darkness to horror fans I would say watch all of Carpenter's other earlier stuff before that. That's just me. Okay. Christine or they live. I love they live, but it's going to be Christine concur. Would you rather watch Christine or Stam Neil in memoirs of an invisible man. See, you phrased that in such a way to almost trick me into considering it more than saying, I would rather watch the algae on the floor of my shower congealed and watched memoirs of an Invisible mananigan What a bizarre Frankenstein of a movie. You know, it's like and it's not even Frankenstein. It's the invisible man. I mean, come on. Yeah, I William Goldman work on this movie. I think you're right about that Yeah William Goldman and Dana Olson goodood writers and a very good director and Chevy when he's in the right hands can be great, of course. Man, what a weird confcration, right? He fucking torpedoed that movie in a way I have not seen another actor just destroy their own project. It's like showing up for being like, Oh, I don't want to really do makeup. It's Mother fucker, this is an invisible man movie What are you talking about? Like you do things about invisible memoirs of an invisible man that I will staunchly praise. The special effects And Sam Neil. That's it. That's it. Okay, B would you rather watch Christine or Sam Neil in In the mouth of Madness. In the Mouth of Madness is one of my very favorite carpenter movies that Oh wow because I like it a lot, but I think I like Christine better. So that's cool. It's operating on another wavelength. I love in the Mouth of Madness so much Yeah, I like it more now than I did when I was a kid because I've actually read a good deal of Lovecraft and got, you know, so I get some of the tone and reference. Carpenter was using Okay, Christine. I think I could save you some time from nineteen ninety five to twenty ten, the answer is Christine Okay, so those films are Village of the damned escape from LA vampires Ghosts of Mars and the ward Those are all movies he made. yes. Yeah. I think Village of the Damned is straight up bad Do not please don't come at me, but I do not like escape from LA U I think vampires and ghosts of Mars have their moments And I think the ward is if it had been directed by somebody else, We'd be calling it a decent indie horror film, but because it's Carpenter, it has to be, you know brilliant I think it's okay. I think it's pretty good It's not great. I I'm starting to realize Christine is is moved into like my top five carpenter films. Yeah. And for somebody with a stacked catalog like this, that's not a small praise Man. Well, everybody, thanks for listening. My name is Brian Salisbury. Thank you Well thank you for listening Wait a minute, isn't overhated. This is Junk food cinema, which means we gotta do the junk food pairing Weinberg, why don't you go first on this? The cheeseburger. And you know why Oh yeah. Lee is eating one when Christine tries to kill her whichich is a reference, by the way. so one of the other changes is that the Robert blossoms character in this, Robert's blossom character in this's attorney' his entire family had died in the car in different different years years right? It's a combination of two different characters. So in the book, the guy that sells him the car is the evil one And he dies immediately after selling the car to Arnie. and then are and then Dennis meets the guy's brother who basically lays out that guy's whole history. he's the one who gives them the backstories. Yeah. the backstory, the Roberts Blossom's character's daughter died in the car. She choked on a hamburger from a roadside stand They mention the daughter dying in the car in the movie. They don't talk about how. So the fact that Lee is choking on a hamburger is actually a direct reference to that thing in the book that they don't. Are you sure there was no cheese on it I don't know for sure if there was cheese on it. It was a They said it was a roadside hamburger stand. They're like, you have to remember there were no McDonald's. They were just roadside stands. So I mean in a movie, arere you sure Lee's Burger doesn't have cheese on it? Dad, I don't. Scott, I'll have to go back and watch this a fifth time. So for mine, I'm going with a car window mounted frosty mug of root here from an old fashioned drive in Oh, that sounds good R? The fifties nostalgia of this movie, which is inherent, not just because it's Carpenter, but because other, you know, children of the seventies filmmakers who were children of the seventies coupled with the car culture obsession, desperately made me want to pull into an old fashioned car hop establishment and have a woman on roller skates attach a yellow plastic tray to my half roll down window, a tray on which a towering frosted mug of delicious rootberer would find prominent purchase Yeah, and then you'd have to pay for it. That's another T hches. I would not I know this is a blasphemy and most horror fans would kill I would be if you could find a good writer director I would be I would watch a fifty set Christine prequel Absolutely Let's go. I'll watch that h day. Let's write it Let's write it right now By the way, there is something about the serving method of that giant frosted mug that makes root beer taste like the elixir of the gods or an egg cream Yeah, I see, I didn't even know what that was until I found a place that served it right. And then it was like, oh Fuck, yeah, that's why people killed themselves on this like drinking this every day. It's so goddamn good But I remember You know, there were like retro AN W type stands in my hometown when we were kids. And I just keep thinking of American graffiti every time you do this, every time you talk about it. Right? And then my dad it's not going to get better because my dad would take us there in his nineteen eighty eight Chevy Camaro Z twenty eight And o We would your dad, you know what? yourour dad had good taste in cars. My my dad stold a nineteen seventy eight Pinto to buy a nineteen seventy nine or eighty AMC pacer Okay, but I need you to be honest with me, did he sell it to Keith Gordon? Okay, well my dad had awful taste in cars You know, we would we would fucking down mugs a rooter those places and feel like the kings of the neighborhood. I will never forget that feeling And you know, my dad's Camar had tes. It has to be full of ice and the the glass had to be in the fridge or freezer. Oh yeah, they had to be because when you were drinking it, the chunks of ice that had grown around the mug would start to fall off like you were watching a glacier melt. It was incredible. Absolutely incredible. We would Yeah, my dad's car had the te topops, you know, wasn't a full convertible, but had the teet tops. So you felt like you were it was just it's one of my core memories. So this movie just kind of made me want that taste again So our lesson here and I'm sure you do it is Take your kids to a drive in the drive in restaurant if possible because they will remember it.