The Craft of Slapstick Animation

I think the appropriate place to start this particular recording is for you to explain your t shirt, which you've only changed into like merely seconds ago off camera, which is you know pointing for It's a relief Yeah. Yeah. so it says made in nineteen sixty three, this would apparently mean that it's your birthday Yeah. so today that we're recording this is Wednesday, but tomorrow, which is the day that it would go go live or whatever 's alough actually un send the video. it' go live until Friday, so that probably is yes ism I'm I'm fifty one again No' sixty What am I I'm sixty three. I made inling because you always say a different age Yeah but did you actually? Well, I was born in sixty three and this birthday I am sixty three So I have actually been sixty this birthday of today tomorrow, yesterday if you're watching the video Actually my sixty third birthday. So it's that weird thing about I was born in sixty three and I am sixty three You're not rounding it up like normal No, no, that's what I'm saying. I mean the remark about every time I say on the radio I'm sixty three. I get an annoyed text from Dave Norris saying, You're not sixty three. you're sixty two because he and I are the same age But now I am sixty three, and I was born in sixty three and I am sixty three. And as all of this is a long way aroundound leading up the garden path so that you can wish me happy birthday Well I wish you happy birthday, and I wish you happppy birthday with this wisdom, which I only saw this morning which is online from a bloat called The Old Greay Thinker. Okay? Yes At thirty, you have energy but limited perspective. At fifty, you have skill but limited time att sixty seven orr sixty three, if you want Yeah Your brain has built roads between seemingly unrelated things. Music informs your gardening, Literature shapes how you cook This is the neurological advantage nobody mentions. We're not fading, we're finally seeing the full picture. There we go Damn go And can I also very quickly give you the full picture on on my experience last week with with KLM Airways United last week. you were in I was in Croatia.roatia. I was in Croatia was it was the ye, the Pontal Lupood film fest And we watched the Croatia match live We watch the Croatia match live with Well, the one in which they played Ghana and they won Was there another one since then No, they played England for that. No no, no, but the one in which in which they won two oneon. in which there was a whole thing about there was a goal and then they weren't sure whether it was offside and then it was everyone was tenense but we were it was outdoor screening of it. and they were going nuts. They were go absolutely nuts. And for the first time, I kind of got sens to, oh, I can see how this might be quite fun to be in a crowd of people when your team, that team at that point being Croatia because I think at the same time England werere playing somebody else They didnn't be playing the same teams No, not the same team. They're playing somebody else. And oh, I see that was fine. Okay. I don't understand football. De have we gone through? What's happened? Well, at the time of which we are recording the day before your birthday. Yes today Eng today playing the Democratic Republic of care of Congo, DRC And And so by the time we'll either been beaten embarrassingly by DR Congo or we'll have gone through triumphantly. Okay All right, well, I don't know what's happening except for that I was in a I was in Croatia when they were playing another team And they and they won And u And everyone went mad, but I was in Croatia. and I flew to and from Croatia on KLM airlines who are apparently you said, the oldest airline in the world. That's right. Yeahah. And so the experience of it was this, flying out change to Amsterdam They lost our bags. So we arrived in Lopeood, they'd lost the bags. And they were in Lopepood and then they found the bags and then they sent the bags to us just in time for us to get the flight back Via Amsterdam where they lost the bags a second time. So they still don't still don't have the bags. and on the morning of the way back When we arrived at the airport at four o'clock in the morning, they said, ah, well, we've overbooked the plane, so you can't fly on it And then I explained to them in no uncertain terms that I was going to fly on it. And they actually saying what was your strategy here? I flatter them with kindness That's right. I flattered them with kind of. But I did I did point out that I might I would have been better off flying with KLF and catching the last train to transcend j Exactly or driving an ice cream van across the thing. But yeah, no, literally to lose the bags on the way out and then lose them on the way back And they still we still don't have them back have no idea where they are. they They're obviously on a tour of the world at the moment T Time to kick out the jams, Mllon farmers. Melon farmers. Exactly. I famously played the wrong version of that on radio onene, but no, did you and play the MC five uncensored Yeah, it was KLF with the MC five bit and Be right at the very beginning it says time to kick out the jam and then it's on the radio version that the next bit is reversed. So it's all perfectly fine. And then I played one with without it reversed and then the head of music rang up rang into the studio and said, takeake it off, takeake it off. there's another one coming. There's another one No, no, no, no, no, no, I don't thinks Oh, there was. yes. Okaykay. I'll take it off. I'll take it off now So we had a couple of melon farmers findind my bags, Melon farmers would have been a Anyway, you're very welcome to the show, everybody. Mark later once in his in his youth. be getting excited about these films. Yes. so we have reviews of Nvana, the band, the show, The movie. U Minions into monsters, you will have heard Simon's interview with Pierre Cofin last week In the chart rundown, we have the delayed review of Supergirl because as you know, they didn't screen that until Tuesday night which point KLM we're in the process of losing my bags. and The invite with our very special guests Yeah, two of the stars of that film. Edward Norton and Olivia Wilde, she's also directed the movie and a bonus review in takeake two, Market. I think There is a fiftieth anniversary reissue of taxi driver and this will mean something particularly to you Because when we in a previous incarnation of this show, we did a show from Salford with a with a a whole orchestra doing movie music and we played the theme from Taxi Driver as part of that concert, and it was one of the highlights of the show say we played Well we didn't was No, I was observing. Yes Robert Ziegler conducted and the orchestra played the instruments, but we sat there and stroked our chins and went Well's on? I remember that show For all the good reasons because it was fantastic and what you know, what a thrill to do a show with a live orchest. I particularly remember going on air twoo o'clock or something. Yeah, two o'clock in the afternoon. And And within two minutes, the whole orchestra got up and left Wh hell are they going? And it was it was their break. It was time for a break. T bre. It was a unionized thing and it was It was like, Well, Hang, we just started the show. Could you not have gone beforehand? but anyway, no they had their regimented breaks and so off they went. The other thing that I discovered at that show that I hadn't known before is that the way an orchestra applaud is that they stamp their feet. Do you remember this? that they don't end Violist in cellis, don't they sort of tap their bow against their instrument? Well, I just remember the sound of that because because at that show, I played the Chromatic harmonica on the theme for Midnight Cowboy and I'm not very good chromatic harmonica player but I got away with it And at the end of it They did they very kindly, I mean, maybe ironically, did the stampy feet thing. And I thought, what are they walking out? You know? And they said, No, no,s that's how they applaud How do they applause sarcastically they Yeah, I think I think there was definitely it was sarcastic foots on the game the sameays. If you're holding an instrument that costs Maybe hundreds of thousands of pounds. You're not going to just put it down to clap, are you? You're going to do something else? What can you do? You can stamp your feet. That's fine. And veryid esque. Don't forget you can get take to ad free by heading to our Patreon page just search Kermad and Mayo Patreon and we'll pop right up The Mer Kat Kings of subscription based world class film podcasting And we have a special announcement regarding Christmas spectacular. and this year, it's not in that there, London Yes, people of Bristol, We're going to be at the Bristol Beacon on december the sixth tickets go on sale today Thursday, july the second because M'sth everyveryone is Ms birthday. It's Mark's birthday. By yourself a present The idea of buying things for Christmas before you've gone on summer holidays seems incredible. But obviously there are huge advantages and you can do it via the link in the show notes Yeah. so if you're in Bristol or Bath or deevisices or Castle Cry or Cardiff or Stroud Or Froom or Syncesester, Trowbridge, Cheltenham, Glastonbury, Swindon, Newport Gloucester, Cumberran, Western Supermare, Tetbury All of which are an hour or less from Bristol, then get your tickets now. Green Camel Naililsworth, Cleveland, Chepstow, Diddy Wink Ghosty Knll, the Pluds Cat brain Yeah Okaykay, thanks. we get it. You can stop now. The shoe Nimp nit thrubw board drip wookie hole Balls green, Cckadilly Cent its bottom and twightly So you can't say the team slacked off on the research this week. So yes, to recap, I think I drew the short straw in that particular thing, don't you? It's a Christmas special with me and him on Sunday, december the sixth at the Bristol Beacon. Honestly, it's not even that far from London So London people you can come along to. It's not far from Cardiff orirmham or Lowesto, Aberdeen or Belfast either. So it's actually only a few miles drive from Cornwall as well. So you know, it's just up the road. So we'll see you up the way Cristal So here we go. we're doing some Christmas planning already. You can do your Christmas shopping on the Saturday and a little bit on Sunday morning, get a pastry and then come along and see it's all the details follow the link. Anyway let's talk about a film that's out that we might want to see So Nirvana two ends The band, the show, the movie. Are you aware of any of this at all I haven't seen the film. No No, but you're not okay so because this is basically the film adaptation of a TV series that was itself the spinoff of a web series. So it's a Canadian comedy directed by Matt Johnson. written by Johnson and J. McCarll. Johnson co wrote and directed Blackbury from a couple of years ago for which McCarroll did the music. And as I said, it's based on this long running thing they've done, Nvan of the band And indeed, the film blends new footage shot for the film with old footage archived from the extensive pat catalogue. The film actually opens with what is apparently the very very first scene of the series. I have to say, I'm coming to most of this new because I didn't know this until after having seen the film and then going back and researching it. other people will know more. So it is an absurdist mocumentary spinal tappy documentary, if you will, with an anarchic self reflexive cinematic edge Story focuses around Matt and Jay, who for a long time have played these fictionalized versions of themselves as oneanabe pop stars trying to book a gig at a venue for which they have no real set, no real songs, no real plan, no manager, and apparently not a huge amount of talent. So it is best described to me, having not been familiar with the web series or the TV series as a kind of rough and ready jackass inflected sketch comedy car crash in which Bill and Ted now being played by Sasha Baron Cohen and Nathan Fielder decide to accidentally remake backack to the future by jumping off a tower and skydiving to Stardom by a time traveling jaunt through a preview screening of the hangover from a previous agge. So It opens with a very bill and ted argument Remember how there's the argument of Bill and Ted is right at the beginning of Bill and Ted, in which one of them starts saying that whileild stallions cannot make it big until they have a triumphant video. And in order for them to have a triumphant video, they have to have Eddie Van Halen on guitar. And then the other one says, well, we can't get Edie Van Halen on guitar because we haven't got a triumphant video So here are two middle aged heroes, Nirana, the band. They're trying to get a gig at the Riverly Club And one of them suddenly Matt says, I've got a plan. There's flyers. That's what you need. Flyers. Flyers is the thing that you do And the other one says yeah, but you have to have a gig before you can put up fllyers. No no, no, you put up flyers and that's how you get a gig. Th then all this is captured on kind of handheld gerilla style handheld cameras. And there's a lot of fourth wall breaking because the people who are holding the cameras sometimes get brought into the drama Then Matt the genius says, I've got it. I know I know what we have to do in order to become in order to get the gig at the riverly, we have to go up the SN toer and jump off it and skydive into the skydome which is a sports arena where the BueJay is going to be playing. And we can do that because you can go up the tower and then there there's a walkway thing that you can do but they strap you on and then we just cut the things and then we and then we jump off and then we parachute down. So they now go to a hardware store in preparation for the jump I hope this is making more sense to you than it did to me. Here is a clip. So we are going to be up. on u h on the SNne tower in one of the in on the edgewalks. we're wearing the I think they put a safety vest on you. and we need something that can like through the rope or the cable on it. Do you know what I mean? You can, But here's the thing. you would shock yourself because if you cut through live wire, you will get that electricity. But o, I'm not cutting through electricity. I'm cutting through fabric. I'm cut through live wire. What happens if we're not even allowed in the security with? You will be actually caught. I'm going to say that I need these for. I'm sorry. Dw. Dvewom two forty three I think that you know what? Like I don't know Be careful, man, I seriously don't think it's worth it. Right? Okay. But I mean But You have the freedom to do this. I'm a libertarian. You have the liberty to do it with That should I believe as a sane person, I should prevent you guys from doing this So there's that kind of thing about obviously that person doesn't know that they're involved in a dramatic sketch and they're saying, yeah, I don't think you should go up the top of a tower and throw yourself off it. I mean, obviously as a libertarian, I believe you have the right to do it, but I don't think so. And there's a lot of that kind of interacting with the public, which seems to be real. Anyway, So when that stunt doesn't work, then they decide to build a Delorean style time machine, which is fueled by a long defunct novelty drink called Orbits, which apparently is a very funny joke if you're Canadian to go back in time in order to change history to get the gig at the Rivere and You know, one thing leads to another and turns out that the time machine does work and then they find themselves back in a previous incarnation of the world with potentially disastrous butterfly effect style consequences. So look It is a very odd movie, particularly for me, if you hadn't seen the web series, you haven't seen the TV series, you had no idea what was going on at all Ca you remember Trigger Happy TV when there was a whole thing about you remember that? I thought I mean I enjoyed bits of Trigger Happy TV very much. I did always think Ill Jolly course Dom Jolly. Hello Dom Jolly, who's a listener. And the stuff with with the animals beating each other you know, people dressed as animals having comedy fights in parks, I always thought it was absolutely hilarious. I never knew quite why I found it so hilarious but I thought it was At first, I have to admit, I just couldn't quite make out what was going on. And when they do the CN tower bit, I mean for a start, one thing is, I'm terrified of heights. So there's a whole thing in my point of view going on, which is I'm terrified of heights The second thing is the way in which they're trying to get into the tower, getting through security whilst apparently smuggling parachutes under their clothes and you think this can't be real. seecurity can't actually be letting them through with clearly parachute smuggl. So there's a certain amount for me at the beginning of what on Earth is going on followed by a I really, really don't like height. And then There all the way through, there are these kind of actually rather well done sleight of hand deceptions between, you know, what' what's real and what's staged And there's a whole thing in which, you know with backack to the future, they're kind of riffing on back to the future and the lightning strike and stuff that has to be done. And you're looking at it going, sorry, how much of this do the people around know what's going on? How much of this are the people in on the joke, how much of this is the joke that they're not in on the joke You know, because at one point it looks like They're organizing a terrorist operation And then everyone is sort of just looking at them like something weird, but just a bit odd is going on. And then the lines between fiction and reality are further blurred by the fact that apparently some of the stuff from later on in the movie, there is news footage, that is actually a news footage that is repurposed from something else that was going on. to make of the result ound That does sound like quite hard work Well Here's an interesting thing and I'm sure that part of this is an age thing, okay. From a filmmaking point of view, It is, I have to say, a kind of a really seamless mix of the of the artifice and the repertge to the point that I was genuinely confused about what was going on plus. it has a spectacular set piece in it at the beginning that really gave me the colli wobbles in a way that was like whoa,, you know, I'm genuinely unsettled by this However from for people who are familiar with the series, you know, all this is fine. This is part for the course. This is just like, okay, it's a movie, it's gone bigger. and therefore, you know, the stunts are greater, but the central thing is the relationship between these two central characters, which is kind of the heart of it I have to say I personally found myself too distracted by the sorry, what's the status of this? What's going on? who actually enjoy the comedy. And it's a really weird thing to say and I know I say quite often I've got a tein ear for comedy. But I also think that what I've got an anxiety about is sorry, hang on. what what is where are we? Are they involved in it? Are they not involved in it? Do they know what's going on? Do they not know what's going on? And so from a filmmaking point of view, I mean, it is really audacious and it It's like and I know I have a couple of younger friends who are very familiar with the series and very familiar with with the TV show who just thought this was the funniest thing they'd seen and incredibly audacious, which it is. I felt a little bit as you seem to be feeling from my description. which is It's slightly hard work. I mean I'm of the generation I love Bill and Ted and they clearly love Bill and Ted, but I kind of found myself tolerating Matt and Jay as opposed to loving them. And I think that the thing is, if you're already invested in the characters, if you're already familiar with with the format, if you're already on board I think youd think, okay, well, this is terrific. It's doing all the stuff that we want it to do. If like me, you're going in stone cold because you're a person who's just turned sixty three, thanks very much I found it harder to enjoy than I would have done. And the other thing is, I found the characters really great. I love Bill and Ted. I absolutely love Bill and Ted then I would quite happily spend a week in the company of Bill and Ted After a couple of hours in the company of Matt and Jay, I thought, okay, that's well done. And I'm going to go and stand over here now So but they pronounce it Nirvana all the way through, even though it's written Nirvana for obvious reasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.'s that apparently is the kind of the longest standing of the jokes is the confusion about Nirvana, the band. the yes, exactly. I never really got to the bottom of that. But then to be honest with you I'm not sure that I needed to I presumably it's copyright because if you say Nirvana, the band, the show of the movie and it hasn't got Nirvana in it, then you're in trouble, aren't you? No, but they're not. they are they they're saying Nirvana I mean, honestly to be honest with you now that you're bringing it up, it never even occurred to me that there was a pronunciation thing. But it is N I R V A N N A The band Okay I would say Nevanic, but any where they go. Okay. so it is for some then you say Indiana India Absolutely. Indiana wants me. That'ss that's I mean, that's the way most people, I think say if they actually come from except in the song. It's Indiana wants me. Yeah. What a strange song that was. What a strange song that was. Okay, so we're going to take some ads and after the break, minions and monsters and also the invite our special guests will be Ed Norton and Olivia Wilde Giming in just a moment. Okay, here we go with the box office topop ten, at number ten, a private life which I enjoyed. And it's Lav Vi Privey, Jodie Foster Like I said, it's an odd movie. It has been referred to by some critics as hitchcockking, although I think that is kind of that's just a word that they fall back on. But I enjoy it and it demonstrate that Jodeie Foster can be brillant in more than language which of course is no surprise to anybody Docker UK on our YouTube channel, which this week passed one hundred million views by the one hundred million I saw the film last December in France and I found it entertaining, although I felt the plot was rather thin. I also seem to remember the ending feeling a little abrupt. Jodie Foster who could do no wrong, whether performing in English or French and Danille Aooy are both superb. But The chemistry is exceptional and I'd love to see them share the screen again very soon V good. So that's private life at ten. numberber nine is Michael. It's still in the ten in America it's twelve two million so far taken here, which is just astonishing. I mean perfectly well made one half of the story, where's the rest of it Backrooms is at number eight to number six in America. So F fifth week in of the Chart's done very well. I thought it was creepy and interesting. We've had some very, very good emails about the way in which people are interpreting it which just, I think, go to show that Interesting films bear numerous interpretations, whatever you want to bring to it, it will it will, you know, it will support. Number seven here, number eight over there. bleach, Thousand year blood warar The calamity. There's a cool on after bleach, a hyphen after thousand and a hyphen after war. Lots of punctuation. So this wasn't press screened. this is a spin off of the manga series. It's Apparently, the plot synopsis says Ishigo and Allies must reclaim the fallen palace to stop total ruin as the thousandousand year blood war peaks haaven't seen it, if you have, let us know Number six is Scary moovie And moving on Number five is obsession which is terrific. This is the seventh week in the charts. Obsession cost absolutely nothing It's taken sixteen million do. It's really interesting. it's got greatreat horror performances, like all the best horror movies, it's really about something. And again We've had numerous interpretations of what it's about. and I think it's really exciting. I think it's really, really exciting that this and Backrooms are both in the top ten in which they're holding their own against very expensive movies. Number four here and there excuse me, Chris Walker aged forty five Long term listener, first time emaila. I'm a huge fan of you both but an even bigger fan of Jackass, which puts us right down again Having been watching them for most of my adult life, I'm fairly certain that come the closing credits, I'm off to see it on Tuesday I'll be welling up. It's precisely the shameless and unadulterated affection and love for their friends that has made Jackass a hit for twenty five years or more shameful as some of their behavior undoubtedly is in a world where men still struggle to open up, emotionally, their genuine love and loyalty should be applauded I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea, but sometimes the derision aimed at them seems a little condescending and haughty. Anyway, love you both, Chris Walker Might I say I did not aim any condescending or haughty derision against the film? I actually said of all of them It was my favorite And the thing that I was surprised by is how much it was in the end about male friendship. And the analogy that I used was that if Project Hail Mary asks can men be friends And the answer is yes, but only if the future of humanity is at stake Jackass asks canan men be friends? and the answer is yes, but only if they can insert toy cars where the sun don't shine a funny thing happened with this which was that the good lady Professor her indoors listened to the show whilst driving between Cornwall and somewhere else And she came back in and she was chuckling. and I said, what are you chuckling about? She said, Simon Mayo does this thing which really makes me laugh Okay, what is that? She said in the middle of your Jackass review You describeed the film. And there was a pause and Simon Mayer went Oh dear When he does that, it's very, very funny I didn't know I didn't know it was a thing that I did. Apparently it's a thing that you do and it's a thing that makes the good lady prorofessor her indoors laugh very much because I said and then they do this and then they do that and then they insert this there and then they put that with the su. and then there was a brief pause and you went Oh dear Well, I still think, you know, I'm on air, you know There are other reactions, which would be l Okay, there we go. So Jack is number four. Number three is disclosure day. Here's an email from Mrter Jocelyn Evans. Okay, okay. And I was thinking I hadn't come across a bloke called Jocelyn, so I just looked it up It was Jocelyn is originally a male name from an old Germanic word meaning member of the Goths Of the Goths, of the Goths. so Jocelyn is a goth bas Wow. Well Dear Hansel and Gretel, having dropped child number one at a college tasteter day in Manchester And having a few hours free, I decided to take in a surprisingly well attended morning showing Disclosure dayay I'm not sure which I found weirdder There's a fifty four year old man rummaging around in his backpack for a packet of fruit gums to revive me after the umpteenth wearying chase scene, only to hear Colin Firth gently calling my name from the screen I think he was about to chide me for eating sweets before lunchtime, but then he got distracted by his dead wife, so I ate the fruit gums anyway Also, that an alien civilization with the USP Empathy or superpower collectively settled on dressing up as the cast of Bambi to abduct and operate on frightened children in their spaceship disguised as the original if gingerbready cabin in the woods Given their main procedure appeared to be some type of retinal scan mightight I suggest future empathetic incursions consider infiltrating a bunch of spec savers for the afternoon? And listen, don't then keep turning up for years afterwards gorping through the windows at your victims Anyway, keep up the good work down with something or other. I think it was orange, but my memory's gone blank after a staring contest with a squirrel Mr. Jocelyn Evans BA PhD, also doctor that causes confusion, used to be a professor Yes, I did that too, but now level two, England athletics official Jocelyn sounds though he's had a wild and crazy life. Yeah, either that or he's a complete fantasist. I complete is to have lived several lifetimes. That's astonishing all those things. I feel like I haven't done enough There's nothing wr with eating sweets before lunchtime, I think if If it if needed because sometimes you need a sugar rush and fruit gums, very good fruit pastels, also jelly toartts, that kind of thing. You should always have them handy. So disclosure date number three, Anything else to say there? We've got more in overflow carpark. Yeah, there's more in the overflow carpark. and I think let's save further discussion for then. I think it's great that we're getting so much mail about disclosure dayateay. I think that's pretty exciting. numberumber two is Supergirl Okay, so as we said last week, the Supergirl press screening was Tuesday evening. The way that national press shows work is that films are open on Friday get screened for the critics on the daytime of Monday and Tuesday If they felt that they don't screen something until as late as possible. It's usually two things, either because it's a massive event movie like no time to die or, you know something like that. And they're trying to kind of keep everything secret until the last possible moment. or It's because they don't have a lot of faith in it. Now I have no idea what the thinking was with wararnings for not screening Supergol. I did say to them, look You know, there should be a national price show and they said, yeah, but there isn't this is the only one. Um However, I have I'm now looking at the variety headline which says Supergirl braces for one hundred million dollars loss what DC Studios should learn from its box office bombbs. So that's It's number two, obviously, but it has underperformed. Anyway, latest DC offering, part apparently of DCU's chapter one Gods and Monsters series. I say that as if it means anything to me. It doesn't. Directed by Craig Gillespie, written by Anne Naggurea, starring Millie Olcock as Supergirl, which is a role that we previously saw her showcase in last year's Superman. if you remember I reviewed that. I mean it's funny. desespite the fact it was only last year, I have very little memory of watching that film, but I did I asked the internet what I thought of it. and apparently I said it was a resolutely good natured throwback, which is fine. So It is her I'm going to do a brief review now since I didn't get to do it last week.. It is Carazor L's twenty third birthday. She has been on a sort of planet hopping pub crawl as far as we can tell Her cousin, Superman, wants her to spend more time on Earth, but she is clearly on the run from her responsibilities. Here's a clip from the trailer Itways just touch and base to see when you think you might be coming back You know, I'm just worried that you're not gonna find your stride here if you keep going off world all the time, Kara Yeah, well, that's the thing, Clark H is wherever you are, buddy L o and I at least had each other.isions Honestly, I thought we were real lucky. But look, almost by definition runnt out kind of mumble core superheroes with pop music. So And then Matas Gonat's evil and evilly accented Km of the yellow Hills pooisons crypto And then she has to go on a mission to find him and get the antidote to save crypto. So it's basically John Wick in as much as it's all about the dog And it's also a bit Hangcock. Do you remember Hangcock, the film in which I do. Will Smith was sort of the You know it was a superhero, but was now a derelict and you know, just wanted to drop out. anyyway, along for the ride is Ruthie by Bve Ridley, whose family Crem has killed, but who Kara wants to save from falling prey to Vengeance So I went to see at Eastley just yesterday or yeah, yesterday, Well, day before yesterday, if you're listening to this on Thursday. I thought I mean it was it was a weekday screening at six o'clock. It was about seventeen or eighteen people in the audience. It's a weirdly overcluttered mishmash of plot and design ideas. I mean, it's sort of the design is like the dystopia of Blade Runner and Mad Max, but very very messy. And then take all of that and then throw it into the Marsaies D Cantina because essentially it's sort of Star Wars Star Wars creatures from around the galaxy and then just shaking all those things up and seeing if any of them catch fire. the narrative and the plot are all over the place. none of the individual set pieces connect with any of the other individual set pieces. I mean, like the sets, the whole thing feels really, really overcluttered and underpowered Um, Jason Memar seems to be having fun. I wish I was having as much fun as he was. The directing and the editing are really drearily frenetic. And it's kind of that weird thing if as if the film is desperately trying to seem exciting. just jumping around all over the place whilst actually being kind of very, very very state. There are endless needle drops. There's a bit in which there's a wet leg needle drop. And I actually really like wet leg and you know, I love catch these fist, but it just seemed very self conscious. None of it was organic And one of the things it reminded me of, I mean, people forget this Do remember're seeing the original Tilight and The original Twilight had really, really good needle drops that actually kind of made you think this is a film with a genuine teen sensibility. And these didn't ever feel like that the other thing that bothered me about it and this is very much old man shouts at clous It's a twelve A certificate movie and it is twelve A four partly moderate use of bad language, okay. The The word that isn't quite shoot that I still consider to be a cuss word and we don't use it on the show. But apparently in twelve A now there is no longer any restriction on shoot and It's just everywhere. I mean it's just constant, constant, constant. stuff happens and then someone just goes shoot. and then something happens and they go shhoot. And then something else happens and go shoot. And then something else happens and somebody goes, shoot and you go For heaven's sake I mean, this is like You've just got shhift alt insert, shoot, every other and I mean at one point I started counting, and then I just gave up. And then I realized I'm actually counting the number of times that you use this word That means that the film really isn't working for me. The BBFC guidance says U moderate use of bad language Mild actually no actually, I can't even read those words out. It's, u Yes, no I can't if I a moderate use of bad language and look it up, I can't read any of those on the show. As for Min Olcock, I thought she was actually pretty good and I wish that she had a better film to be good in because I thought at the center of it, there's an interesting idea, which is suupergirl the way that she plays Supergirl as this sort of dissolute character who's separated from everything and disenfranchised from everything and doesn't really want to engage with anything other than her dog And then finding out that she says, there is something in there But the rest of the movie is just it's like somebody just overturned a dustbin of ideas onto the screen and went there you sort it out. And it doesn't surprise me, therefore that it hasn't done well. Moreover, it doesn't surprise me that they didn't want to screen it earlier than they did because I have the suspicion that they didn't want to screen it because it's all very well to do. first responses to Supergarl are great. People who went to the preremi aere came out saying things like I enjoyed it Yeah That's always the case. We all know that the first responssees things are not good, and it's not good. On the emails here, Susan in reading The movie felt like a mixture of true grit Princess Bride and Star Wars, which made for a fun adventure. Okay Cara's backstory was done really well. The fight scenes were exciting and the dog was absolutely adorable. The fight scenes Ma Sorry, just pause one second. The fight scenes I found were not exciting because the CG was really shonky, sorry, carry on And the dog was absolutely adorable. Jason Momoa was perfect in his role. You could tell he was enjoying every moment he was on screen. I also really enjoyed Kara's character arc The ending sets up what looks like she will be teaming up with Superman and joining the fight with the next big villain. Overall, I had a great time and can't wait to see where the story goes next Great. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I am genuinely glad you enjoyed it. I wish that Brian had Brian Roberts in Chessington, going to the cinema with my younger daughter is quite a teary time as we're both in the habit of crying during films, which led to people asking us whether we were okay because we looked so upset when exiting the cinema after watching if. I imagine this is the John Krzinsky if twenty twenty full Less about the six laugh test and more about the three cry test, most very good On that basis, there were times of cinema There were times of cinema induced lacrimosity during Supergirl mainly because of the multiple times of trauma informed decisions in Kara's past, as well as with her companions. And whilst it wasn't as good as Superman, I found the time watching Kara's story to be heartwarming and emotional and well worth the effort of getting out to the cinema I don't know the background of the production and whether there was any trouble in terms of rewrites or reshoots, but we both very much enjoyed the product Keep safe and cool and down with the bad and up with the good Okay Edin Romsey, I went into Supergirl cautiously optimistic after quite liking James Gunn's Superman last year and also wanting to support it after the predictable online backlash to Millie Olcock's casting, who has apparently committed the unforgivable sin of not being Syidney Sweeney came over her headachy and irritated. It feels like Craig Gill Lesbie trying to make a gun style film without quite pulling it off There are colourful characters and decent performances. Orcock and Jason MMo are both good But they never really land. The visuals are oddly muddy, the villain forgettable, and the jukebox soundtrack lacks guns Nack for the perfect needle drop. This was my first cinema trip in a while as I've been home post op with my dog. So thanks to Simon for the Do the Dog die tip For gamers, there's a lovely equivalent, Can you pet the dog Apparently that's invverted commers. D with all of that with all of the other anyway, love the shows deeep. in Romsey for Supergirl. Well, I mean, I'm very much I'm very much on the same page as Ed from Romsey. However I am pleased to hear the two previous emailers had gone and enjoyed it. in the screen that I was in in Eastley, there was a line of people just immediately ahead of me. prettyre much half half boys, half girls about fourteen, fifteen, sort of, you know slightly gothy looking and as they came out. they seem to have thought it was all right. One of them was pointing out that it was exactly the same story as something else. And they were having a kind of, you know, a debate but There was they didn't seem to have hated it But they didn't seem to have loved it either. At least that was to my eye, that's what it looked like. That's at number two. Toy Story five is number one here and number one in America as well. Nick Reid from Mason Um Long term listener, occasionally email a, proud sneaker of a hello to Jason Isaacs onto Only Connect. After hearing Mark's review, we went to Toy Story mainly for completism bit of shade. Be that was a very good reason for going to the in the recent heat wave But leaving a sold out screening full of laughing, misty eyed families, we both said What film did Mary There's plenty of plot, but it all comes together neatly. The army of buzzes, the gadgets, Jess's abandonment issues, woody with bowpeep and Duke Kaboom's return. It's also refreshing to have a toy story centered on female characters without being didactic John Kusak is a standout in a top form cast and Bullseye is a perfect sidekick Joan Kusak obviously. Yeah. The magic is absolutely still there alongside Pixar's usual care and technical brilliance, especially the gorgeous funny pastel imagination sequences. We laughed and cried, one moment hitting at least an eight on the Toy Story three parents sobbing scale. The message is that children's challenges are timeless, even if the toys change. Not as good as Toy Story three, few things are, but still superior pixar. I'd happily watch just one more and another after that. Take ity Tonk down with buullies, Cyber and otherwise from Nick Reid Okay Well again I'm really glad that you enjoyed it and I'm really glad that you got that out of it And I'm sort of jealous that I didn't. It is worth saying once again that All criticism is subjective And surprisingly enough, even though I didn't like Toy Story five at all I think the fact that it's filling cinemas out and people are going to see it and having positive responses to it is a positive thing. I don't like the movie. I think it felt very artificial and lacking in the moments that you found in it. But that's That's as much to do with I really need from Toyore Be Toy Story has been part of my life. and it's been a big part of Simon and M's relationship on air And so maybe I just went maybe I just have higher expectations for it. And also It is possible to if you go and see a film after you've heard bad things about it, it's easier to see the good things in. This is why people always say, Oh, you know, you ruin the movie for me by, you know by you didn't you didn't say this, but other people say, you ruined the movie for me by being down on it. Weirdly enough, sometimes going in having been told that something isn't any good. I mean, I went to see Supergirl reallyally hoping that it was going to be really good because I'd heard slightly sniffy things about it. and then I was disappointed. So correspondence ofcodame. com if you see any of those that just want to get in touch with the program, there'll be more discussion on current films including Supergirl and Jackass and Toy Story five in the overflow car park I Take two, available via Patreon, spepecial guests Ed Norton and Olivia Wilde in just a moment. So our guests this week are Edward Norton and Olivia Wilde. Olivia, as you know, acted, director, producer of screenwork includes House, Tron Legacy, and Booksmart, of course, the acclaimed Coming of age comedy that marked her directorial debut. Ed Norton, Wow What's to say three time Oscar nominee, known for primal fear, American History X, although I still try and forget that. And of course, famously Fight Club and one of the most consistently acclaimed actors of his generation. You can hear our conversation with them. After this clip from the invite He Come in Nice to see you. We are so happy're here Are we expecting people? Can we put curtns on this window, I don't like how they can see into our apartment This shirt looks nice. It looks really good on you. Well, you could tell me that once in a while. Take a off? I don't give off if you take your shoes off For me, no gluten no d, no meat, no sugar I don't know Is's something I want to talk to you about. We also have something we wanted to talk to you about. That is a clip from the invite. I'm delighted to say we've been joined by two of its stars Ed Norton and Olivia Wald, who also directs the movie, Olivia and Ed. Hello, how are you Great. thank you. R So thank you very much indeed for your time. I really appreciate it. Olivia, you're the director of the movie as well as one of its stars. introduce us to the invite, what do we need to know Sure. Okaykay, the invite is a Cedy a dark comedy. Maybe ish, Dark Ish? No, funny. A funny comedy. about a dinner party g on terribly wrong or terribly right depending on your perspective And it's about a couple. Joe and Angela played by Seth Rogan and myself who are hosting our upstairs neighbors, played by Penelope Crise and Edward Norton and it is I Social experience fraught with a large amount of tension and conflict and hilarity, we hope Okay, and what kind of explain who Angela is, what kind of a person is she Angela is a very tightly wound spring. She is someone who is has So much significance on this one evening during which the movie takes place that it is sort of existentially necessary for her to pull this night off in order to, in her mind impmress Yeah, stay alive, really. She needs to impress them in order to stay alive. She's desperate to feel that she and her husband Joe can have one normal night that they could potentially make friends and be normal. and it seems impossible for them Okay, so Ed, you're part of the raaunchy couple upstairs? intntrodu us to Hawk, what kind of a guy is he Um, He's a bit of an enigma. I think he seems Um I don't want to give too much away. I think that I think that you I think by design you don't really know this couple from upstairs is after think that I think he's someone who Um presents presents one way and who we're going to learn a lot about as the course of the evening goes on. U in ways it's a very enerratic answer. Yes. well There are, you know, there are A lot of the a lot of the pleasures of this film are are the unexpected twists in what you learn about about the collision of these two couples and and I think the less that's the ride, you know, the the yeah, I do think the less The less you know the better. I think This isn't a film full of what I would call trickery. it's It's a lot of there's a lot of humanity in it and um, I think the pleasures of it for people are are actually seeing themselves, seeing their own foibles and their own you know, aspirations and unsaid unsaid inner lives, unspoken inner lives reflected and revealed. Okay, since Ed is being slightly enigmatic, may I say two things. Firstly, I think it absolutely is a dark comedy. I mean, it is funny, but it is absolutely very, very dark. Second thing is obviously this it's based on a film which itself was adapted from a play, a Spanish film, a Spanish play people upstairs How close if at all is this to the source material It's very different from the source material, but I think at its core what it maintains is the question, can two people who have been together for a long time stillill maintain a sense of um intntimacy and that can be interpreted in several different ways And how do people How do people survive within relationship? You know, that is something that I think is. And if they've lost something, can it be recovered? Can it be recovered? But we approach it in a very different way than the original. It is also something that's been adapted into other languages and other cultures, but this version is very specific to this group of actors' interpretation of that question about relationships, but it is It is very different And the dedication to Dy and Keaton, I mean, it seemed to me that this was a film from In my experience, a different era There was a period that I remember in which it was possible to make adult comedies, comedies dealing with grown up themes, which are quite complex, offten French movies dealing with bourgeoir anxiety Yeah And that was that was funny. And this does seem to be of that generation of filmmaking. Yes, that was the intention and we all I grew up being so inspired by those movies and the experience of watching them in theaters. And so that's what we wanted to create for people, absolutely I'm looking at the picture of you guys in the hotel and you seem to be as color coordinated as you are in the movie. This accident. We were just joking about.orrified. We We both made a monochromatic bet And andiveive one. I don't I don't know how I did. this is so perfectly accidentally, but I am blending it with the r. Can you even see her pants? Can you even see H Sanda It blends in with the walls of the house and I blend The curtains, the tiles, the lights stand behind the chairs that you're sitting on, it all works perfectly. And the really the reason I mentioned that is that there is a scene that that you guys have together, where Clearly a lot of work has gone into the design of this apartment, which looks amazing, and you've got three different types of blue Yeah the wall. Okaykay. And But Ed because your character is in tune with this kind of thing is fascinated by the interior decor And Olivia, your characters saying, but you know Which one? and then I'm thinking to myself, but they all look the same And that's exactly what Seth wrote you say that's what my husband thinks, they all look the same. So I felt very seen at that moment. Oh good, yes. I too felt seene because that was based on a conversation with our brilliant production designer, Jade Heley, who was asking me to choose the color for the apartment of the set and kept following me around with these three paint watches But Jade, they're all the same color. She's like, o no, you must be colorblind. And so we put that in the film. but I think the fact that and Angela Bond over that really says everything because he understands how different those shades are. and that was one of my favorite scenes in the film. Can I do a shout out also for for your sound team? Yes. becausecause there is a lot of overlapping dialogue. Yes in this film. Well observed well observed. where you're all talking at the same time and yet we can hear what everybody is sayane. It is say whoever whoever it was is It incredible Steve Morrow, he is the best. and That was my U My dream was to be able to have everyone overlap. I said, can we try for a Robert Altman effect where people can just speak over each other? No one will ever be asked to hold a line in order for another person to speak? And he said, abbsolutely, have at it. And it just really involves a very difficult process of live mixing and holding each person's mic in a way allows them to be isolated and I never had any trouble in post you know, with all of that. and I just I'm so lucky that we had Steve on board And is that where they where your rehearsal period actually worked a lot because it feels it feels as though you're improvising. Is that true? Ed? I would say there was probably more improvisation in this film than any I've done in f Out of fifty films I've done. I think I've never been involved in anything that where the director said These are the basic These are the basic foundational things that probably need to happen in the scene But let's just go let's just go riff it. the the two and Olivia and I walking through the apartment taking the tour and the paint swatch is an emblematic example because most I don't think any of that was scripted really. Um and and deffinitely has one of my favorite lines of Olivia's in the whole film, like you know seeking renovation without change Uh, and I think, um So yes, lot, lots and lots of improvisation, I think. Seth is Seth is one of the funniest one liner machines that any of us know and Penelope is a brilliant she'll get immersed in a thing and come out with stuff like smoking the joint and saying, I can't or I'll start stop counting, start counting things. She like, it was great fun in that sense, but then I think, u There was another layer that was interesting, which was Olivia kind of She asked each of us to hold on to, you know Having almost like secrets that that we could bring out on each other. So quasi scripted, but but only by our by each of us. but we were allowed to bring them into the scene and and get authentic reactions off of each other The thing I would kind of say overall is that iv Olivia created for the four of us a very singular experience in the sense of in which we could operate in which there was nothing wrong that we could do. She was prepared with her team to capture veryy beautifully anything that happened within the space So we had this enormous physical liberation within the space, which is unusual And then I think and an incredible Um not just Not just allowance for it, but enthusiasm Forward. for discovery and uncertainty about where things were going, which is Anathema to most directors. I think most people want to exert control um to shape and sculpt in the course of actually performing and Olivia did the opposite. She really She almost, you know She didn't. Things that almost, I think, felt reckless to me in the sense of saying I don't actually know where this movie iss going to end. I don't know what the final scene of the movie is going to be. and we won't know until a couple weeks into to shooting, which there were people around the perimeter having heart attacks, but she didn't. She remained very cool. Would you say Ed and Olivia is to both of you If anyone says to you, wouldould you like a tour of the apartment? you should always say no Oh, no, I think no yes. No it. You should always say yes Absolutely. I love a tour of an apartment Okay, well Ed Olivia, thank you very much, Ideed for talking to us. also thank you for putting a big title sequence at the beginning of a movie, the way it felt entirely appropriate. And Ed, also the last time you were on was to talk about Motherless Brooklyn. And the music from that movie is still whenever I'm feeling exhausted, I listen to daily battles, both the Tom York version and the Winter Masales version, and I feel better. So. Thank you so much Oh Thank you for your time, Olivia, thank for your time, Med. Thankk you Ed Norton and Olivia Wld, who starred in this movie was Seth Rogan, Penelope Cruz, I realized that hadmageed Penelope Cuz properly when we were doing the questions. So this is this is a fascinating film. It's like you were saying, Mark, it feels very old. onn the one hand It feels very progressive because this is certainly whether it's dark comedy or not, it's an adult comedy. Yes This is not a date movie, I would suggest. But it does it's a forehander. It's an old fashioned stage play turned into a movie. It is. So just a bit of sort of nuts and bolts background. so It is technically it's an adaptation of a twenty twenty Spanish comedy People Upstairs by Gay The original is about a bickering couple who invite the couple upstairs for dinner, having heard them having very loud fun times. and that film began life as a stagepl, which makes sense because a forehand are taking place in an apartment. Of course, it makes sense that comes from a stagepl. So this is adapted by Will McCormMack and Rusardia Jones of the sccreenwriters The project was originally developed in twenty twenty one for Joon from Dayton Valerie Farris, who are the people that made Little Miss Sunshine and Battle of the Sexies? Now you remember that you and I very much likek Battle of the Sexies And at that point, it was going to start Amy Adams, Paul Rud and Tessa Thompson. that production stalled Then it was relaunched with Olivia Wildd directing and co starring with Ed Norton Pilby Cruz just said Seth Rogan. Of course Seth Rogan and Olivia Wilde have worked together Before There's an episode of the studio. Remember the episode of the studio in which she's the runaway director who steals the can of film from her own movie because she wants she wants to get the scene reshot. So as was probably apparent. funny when you when Ed Norton said he didn't want to say anything about the you know, about what the plot's about Well you have to have a certain amount. I mean essentially, we meet Angela, who is Olivia's character in her apartment awaiting the arrival of Joe, played by Seth Rogan, who is now this worker shub with a bad back who seems to hate his life, hates his bike, hates his lot. He used to be in a band who had a hit at some point. Now he's a disillusioned drone who won't even go anywhere near his keyboard And they've got this scratchy relationship. She tells him to take his shoes off. He complains that she does nothing but buy rugs and redecorate the apartment all the time. She berates him for not remembering the fact that the people upstairs are coming down to see the apartment, to see all the renovations that they've been doing for all this time. He snaps back that she never told him that they were coming. And then she says, Well, I did tell you and you've forgotten to bring the wine. And then he tells her that if I gave, if they are going to come, I'm going to have a conversation with her with them about all the noise that they make up. So She says, please don't do that And they're in the middle of the argument when the doorbell rings Bing bong. And there are Hawk, played by Ed Norton and Pina played by Penelope Cruz. and they seem very nice if a bit touchy Fee and he compliments her Dor decisions, the rug, the interior design, you were mentioning the thing about the, you know, the three shades of blue. and this proves very annoying to Joe Meanwhile, turns out that Pina, the woman of the couple was is a therapist. And then we get to discover how they met each other, how they met each other through therapy. And in fact, the kind of life that they are now living, which is completely the opposite, like absolutely the opposite of the life that the first couple that we met are living. As I said before, there is the invocation of Diane Keaton and it is in my opinion, the sort of Grown up, when we say adult, meaning grown up rather than adult meaning porn, which than you know, thank you America for mean taking the word adult and turning it into something else And comomedy that flourished in the seventies largely atrophied later on which is, you a movie about relationships both emotional and physical U I mean, it is interesting that it seems to have taken a remake of a Spanish film. to give America this kind of material. and I thought the whole thing was excruciating in a very good way It reminded me at times of the tone of there's a play called God of Carnage, which a play that I really, really liked by Yasmina Rezar. and that was then filmed as Carnage and the film of Carnage was terrible But the play of God of Carnage, which I saw was really good. And it's that thing about It's the bourgeois satire about people stuck together in a place and attempting to maintain an appearance of normality whilst everything around them is falling apart and whilst their inner demons are sort of rising up before you, but all under the kind of cloak of a polite engagement, or dinner party. In dinner party, what could possibly go wrong? Oh, I don't need me, I don't need that I don't need this And you make a lot of noise upstairs. and you seem to be arguing with each other quite a lot. you've got a weird relationship And there's one point in which Seth Rog I think pretty everyone delivers the line. o F off Hawk And I think it's pretty much the only point in the thing at which the kind of the open hostility suddenly rears its head The performances are very good. I mean Seth Rogan and Llivia Wilde as the bickering malcontents who have forgotten why they were once in love are really, really you know, you get that sense of they've just grown weary of each other Meanwhile The Ed Nortton and Penelope Cruz characters are these sort smug free spirits whose smiling openness actually hide something because again, there's a moment where the Ed Norton's character is really passive aggressive. He' constantly, no, you know, everything's yeah, That's very open. and I admire your truthfulness. at one point he gets old, stop interrupting. You're always doing that. You're always correcting me. You're always correcting me And At times I was kind of At times I was almost kind of burying my face in my hands because that thing about that that the comedy of anxiety, the comedy of The the The facade of normality collapsing is very I find it both compelling and very, very difficult U but I sa I thought it had had it had real energy to it. And what worked was, and this is what I particularly agree with Ed Norton about not really going further into the plot is each new revelation happens with a degree of balance that it's not like suddenly a huge ridiculous leap It's as you discover the things about these couples, they're all discovered sort of just by scratching away at the surface. And I think I think Ed Norton is particularly good at being particularly slimy. I think Seth Rogan is very, very good at being convincingly frustrated I think that Olivia Wilde's character looks like she is one cracked smile away from completely blowing her top. And I think that Penelope Crwz in this kind of very funny, very imperious way 's like the only character who appears to be in control of her surroundings until the moment that she isn't. And I I do think that any film in this day and age, particularly in American film. that addresses any kind of grown up adult subject matter in a way that isn't, you know needs to be sort of embraced. And it's interesting that the bidding war that this provoked after it was first played was won by A twenty four And That kind of makes sense because they've kind of carved the niche in horror and surrealism and you know, and that area and that I mean, I enjoyed it very much. I'm very interested to know what you thought of it because your your and my taste in excruciating comedy is slightly different. Yeah Well, it was it was excruciating, but I did enjoy enjoy it and just on the Olivia Wildld's choiceices to where ends up. She was absolutely emphatic that this is a cinematic release and she said no to the streamers. So in that sense, again, it's traditional, I mentioned just at the end of the interview about there was a There is a title sequence at the beginning like it, you know, like it always used to be. now fms just start and you don't you get the titles at the end and But I thought one of the strengths was that each of the four characters, and there are only four characters apart from an orchestra that you see briefly. beginning a sort of intriguing and almost worth a movie. you know, how did how did you end up like this? U they' they're three dimensional characters. It's not that there's there's two and then there's a slightly kind of sketchy And but there's some and there's some weird stuff and I mean this in a good way, which is clearly deliberate First of all, it's very strange they don't have any wine at all. And one of the things Seth Rogan has failed to do is to bring the wine. That was his job. But they also don't appear to have any wine glasses and thking o this is There's something strange going here and the ending is splendidly enigmatic and you'll talk about the ending. Oh, okay, do you feel that's hopeful? Do you feel depressed? I don't know. What do you you know, what do you think So I thought they There were some very intriguing things and there' and it's laugh out loud funny, and it is not a date moovie. No. But it's also funny because you mentioned the thing about at the beginning there's the orchestra, okay. And I've almost completely forgotten that it actually begins with Seth Rogan's character You know H's meant to be commenting on a performance of a piece And he's just and he's just, he's not listening And the orchestra performed this piece and they look to him and he goes Yeah,ah just do it again And then he goes off and he gets on his bike. And by the time he gets home I've almost completely forgotten that his job actually does involve doing something of any musical involvement at all because he's so paranoid about ever, you know, the whole thing about he won't play the keyboard anymore. And he won't play the keyboard because his dream of being a pop star didn't happen And so when I refer that thing about workish love, he does seem to be somebody who's just stuck in a job that he's not interested in anymore He's not He hasn't got any He's got no, although he's still working in music. you know, he's still working in music Music is still his love. Music was his first love and it will be his last, but he's just treating it like an office job. Yeah Yeah. and and then and then it becomes the forehand play, which, you know, which we were talking about so I think it's going to be I don't know what awards it might win, but I think it's going to be a huge hit because it is It's laugh out loud, funny for big movie stars And I'd forgotten how funny Ed Norton could be. so I thought it was I thought it was a big hit really. I think Ed Norton is very, very funny. I mean, I think Ed Norton is hilarious in fight Club. But I think Ed Norton has got absolutely brilliant comic timing You know, And I and I I I yeah. I do like that. I do like the idea that his character who seems to be so kind of, you know, Yeah no. Yeahah, you know, you're being honest. just be like honesty. 's as annoying as he is Don't watch it with your kids, donon't watch it with your parents Um, Watch it with some friends same So this is an enigmatic. question, Mark, did you feel encouraged at the end Well C there's a question at the end that just before we did the interview we were raising about I mean, obviously, one of the things that the drama has to do is it has to find a way of concluding And I think the conclusion U My own feeling and without giving this away My own feeling was that in the course of the drama Everything had gone to pieces And I'm not sure that I buy the finale, finale But then You know U maybe that's just because I was I can't imagine coming out of an evening like that and ever looking anyone in the face again. I think Seth Rogan's character thinks one thing and Olivia Wld's character thinks thinks another thing. That'ss. so actually that's right. So the ambivalence is Um Yeah The ambivalence is no, no, it is and built in and built in and built exactly what built in to say Yeah We'd love to know what you think, of course, correspondence at Kurbitamo. com Child three sent me a message this morning saying how's the laughter lift looking Y. So and I said, well, it's full, but you know, I'm, you know, there's always always for improvement So the question is Mark, how much room for improvement is there? Okay? That's your question that you have to assess. You're the sole arbiter. like Okay. So here we go. play the music. I think this music is great actually. I lovely whistle. I whistle this sometimes walking down the street Anyway, yeah, I hope you've been enjoying the Norwegian Rowing celebration. Have you at the World Cup? You youve been enjoying that? Well, I've seen it.'veen I've seen people doing it in the streets Oh, okay. Well, it's great that Norway through to the round of sixteen by beating Ivory Coast. I'm sure you were watching that on your television I wasn't that clearly that's news to you. Did you hear the story this week about one of their top fans Olaf the Viking He was out shopping at a New Jersey supermarket when he comes across a little old lady in a mobility scooter, visibly upset Whatever is the matter, oldld American lady, asks Olaf, with typical Norwegian bluntness Oh, sobs the old lady. I wanted to have a look at the frozen puddings, but as you can see, there are five steps down into the chiller cabinets No problem, says Olaf the Viking, lifting her onto his back. I'll take you Olaf strolls through the chiller cabinets with a little old lady on his back picks out several delicious puddings and pops them in the basket he iss carrying for her. At the other end, the old lady's husband is waiting with her mobility scooter. I'd really like to thank you, says the old lady, as Olaf gently places her back down in the seat. But I've no idea who you are All I know is that you're here for the World Cup Olaf just waves and walks off I was really worried about you, Barbara, says the old lady's husband. What have you been doing We've been through the desserts on a Norse with no name, says she Wow. I mean as a written joke because desesserts and desserts One letter apart changes the whole emphasis of the word, but any topop American joke as in America. Wow. Wow. Well mean I spent a lot of it wondering where it was going to and then it didn't disappoint. Good. Okay. was I mean the funniest joke about Horse No Name by America is I for is it Chris Rock? anyway some American comedian who basically said, you would think after spending all that time in the desert You'd have worked out a name for the blessed Horse, but anyway U But that was always like Danny Baker's observation about the Thin Lizzie song Tonight there's going to be a jail break somewhere in this town Probably the jail That was Danny who thought of that first It was of repeated. Anyway, still acc St to come. Minions and monsters. Yes Right before we get to minions, Anding email from Alexis Wh sends us this, which looks like a social media post from the Kapiti Coast commommunity page in New Zealand. So we had we had Leo Woodall on the show talking Tuna And we were saying he didn't seem enormously kind of fluent when it came to actually saying much about the film Yeah he's found it may found it hard to talk about the role, I think. Yeah Okay, so The Kpeetic Coast commommunity page Shoreline cinema K Kanai says, We may be a small out of the way simima But you never know who you may be watching a movie with, as so happened last Sunday. Staff served a handsome young man waiting to go into the afternoon session of Tuna Sitting below the poster with his face all over it was none other than Leo Woodall, the English actor currently on the up and up When recognized, he explained that he hadn't seen the film since it was completed eighteen months ago Riding his wishes for privacy. We won't publish any pictures, but if you do want to see him The tuner is at the shoreline is your best bet And he sat in seat D one in case you want to do that. Anyway, interesting. Now he's currently in New Zealand filming Lord of the Rings, Hunt for Goland, which is what he did say also in the interview. Yeah. But maybe he's just It's a long time ago and he's forgotten Yes. I mean, we often forget that at the point that we interview people about films, it was two years ago that they made it. And I was just saying in my review of Super Girl that I had to go to the internet to look up what I thought of Superman from last year because it had had so little impact. that I couldn't remember at all. And if you're constantly working And I suppose you're if you're an actor Every time you get into the next role, I suppose you have to kind of effectively wipe the memory clean and start again with the next character. So if you' four five movies down the way, And we're saying, you know, what was it I don't know maybe it maybe you're just St And particularly if you haven'ten it because that has happened quite a lot before, hasn't it? you have you have interviewed actors It's never happened with directors, obviously, but interviewed actors who haven't actually seen the finished jilm Some people famously don't never want to watch and I'es. say, Well so I've seen the movie and you havent and you're the star of the film Yeah. Anyway, just one thing, you might have seen this being a reader of private eye in the bath with a beer Dave has sent in a little clipping from the current private eye which has got a photograph of you and a photograph of Pete Hgsetith And underneath Pete Higsith, it says young K modode and underneath you it says photograph of you from many years ago, Secretary for warar And Simon Blake on a letter says did Pete Higsetith have a rant about the poor quality of sex in the city too when he was presenting the movie review show on radio five Lve? Conversely, did Mark Kermo purge the Pentagon of senior military officials? I think we should be told So basically, never mind you being more like Nixon Now you appeaar to be more like Pete Higsetith, I'm sure you'll be thrilled with that Kakeakes's breath. That's the worst yet. I mean, You know, I used to look like Nixon Then Michael Gove Pete Keg's breath Wow. You, basically. And it actually says young K modode underneath it, which is I making a big point about I look like that now, but now I look old. terrible thing. Incidentally, on the subject of Nixon, did you hear the hilarious JD Vance thing saying, you know, well, you know, if watergate happened now, it would be a twelve hour new cycle. I mean, you know, And it's like, yeah, we do know. We know exactly what you mean, JD Vance, because your government is so corrupt that Watergate literally looks like a twelve hour news cycle in comparison. It's just that when you said it out loud, you didn't say it Like that, you said it like it was a good thing that Watergate would have been a twelve hour new cycle Correspondents at Coenmay. com. Thankk you very, indeed for all the correspondents coming in. meantime, minions and monsters, hereere we go U certificate for very mild comic violence, threat and rude humor. and I'm sorry, but Never has a BBFC certificate felt more like a solid endorsement. So Minionss creator Pierre Cafan, he's a French animator, voice artist, co director of Despicable Me moovies and Minions movies. and he was the guest on the show last week. And you interviewed him, you'd interviewed him before, I'm still very jealous because I've never interviewed him And it was a great interview. And you said D tell me about getting work the work on the project? And he said, Well, I made this because I never wanted to make another Minions' film And then Chris Melodandry pitched him the idea. And the idea that he pitched was Mions wanting to make a monster movie and then summoning a monster which turns against the minions and starts destroying the Earth, meaning the minions have to correct their blunder once again But he had me at minions wanting to make a movie. And I thought it was lovely first to have somebody say, this began by me never wanting to make another minions movie. and then somebody pitches me idea and I go, okay, well that I'll do. So He said immediately his idea was, well, we set it in Hollywood in the twenties when and again to quote Pier Coffin from your brilliant interview When film became an industry and I could reference people coming over from East Germany and building studios and making films, there was so much content So the context here is this is the story Oh Two minions Henry and James And that has to be a Henry James joke, right? Henry and James. You would imagine so Without whom Hollywood, as we now know it, would not exist. James is a creative one. He likes to draw, he likes to tell stories. ultimately to make movies. And you suggested that he is basically Pierre Cofin. You said that's him. It's you, right? You know, you like to sit, you like to draw, you like to tell stories. That's you. Pierre Cofin said I don't know, you know maybe but I'm not sure. anyyway. He finds his Nirvana in Hollywood 's clip First things first. who are you?inali Hry. Y, Ainomali mean Is there a name I can just call all of you? Minions Look, Mions. My name is Max. Yeah, Hi. Okay, I'm so sorry about earlier. So I would like to work with you. We should make movies. Movies? Movies movies I'm sorry I just want to watch the whole film again. So Christopher Vaoltz there as movie maker Max who brings the minions into the studio. and there they encounter a range of colorful characters, including The green fllappy faced Gary Orcham, Oliver Magma Ichabod, the deceiver Goomy to his friends who then becomes the sort of the portal through which all the other monstrous stuff starts happening. So essentially what you've got is this is a minions' movie in which the action centers on early cinema Keiton Lloyd And mid century science fiction and monster movie wrisks, Dady Eth is still the blob I love the millions, right? I think we all know that I love Early cinema, Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd. I love mid century sci fi, Davey Erst is still the blob Somebody put a post on social media on Instagram which said I've just seen the description of the new Minions's movie, Ker Mode is going to explode And so it was Firstly, the level of ciny literacy in this movie is off the charts. I mean fromrom the sort of fleeting sonic gags about the Lumiers and Meliers alongside all those kind of the slapstick icons which is obviously the genre in which the minions have always absolutely excelled. I mean the minions are, for me, the modern day incarnation of Keaton and Lloyd and in in terms of the slapstick humor And this fantastical science fiction on which I grew up, I mean, I grew up watching sci fi reruns on television. know, I loved Star Trek, but I really, really loved old science fiction movies It was just a roller coaster, absolute roller coaster. You called it in your conversation with Peraf, you called it a joy filled ninety minute cinematic experience, which is a great phrase, which I think they should put that on the poster. Simon Mayo, a joy filled ninety minute cinematic experience. But you also said, you have to rewatch it, or you felt like you had to rewatch it so as not to miss the jokes, right two or three times probably to get all of them I just thought I want to rewatch it again, not only to get the jokes, but just because I want to laugh at all the jokes I laughed at the first time, because I will laugh at it the second time. There' a lovely moment in the interview when you and Pierre Carfin were talking about this. and Cofan said that he was a little worried. it was possible that this film was more of a time piece. I was a phrase to use a time piece in the other minions movies and that quote, children might not get that stuff And certainly, there are plenty of members of the young audience who will not get that stuff. They won't get, oh, that's a joke about that and that's a joke about that. 't doesn't matter at all because the slapstick will see them through the gaps in the cinny literacy. I mean, the reason it works is it's not funny because it's like, oh, that's clever. Oh well done. you know, nod nod, you know, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. That stuff is all in there because it's all in there But that's not why it's funny It's funny because It's incredibly funny because the slapstick is done incredibly well. It just happens to be playing out in a world which has been created by somebody who is clearly in love with the idea of movies. and clearly in love with the idea of making a movie about making a movie. You also pointed out, and I thought this was very funny to Can that There's there's an old an old science fiction movie called the Blob in which a blob lands on earth and you know at one point devours a diner and it eats everything in its way. And it was very much a kind of you know, Reds under the beds scare movie that the blob has this red glowing thing and it's like, o, it's commommunist infiltration. In the center of this The big, big, bad thing is a huge gelatinous orange blob that just devours everything in its way. And you said to Pierre Cfer, well, I mean, that's, you know, that's a joke about. And he went, what And he said You know, great big and he had to at least feign the pretense that it never occurred to him. He fe he feigned it very well. and I imagine he's doing that in every It was, you know, if the timely thing that everyone is terrified of in the nineteen fifties or the reds, the timely thing that everyone is just horrified by in the whatever we are in now is the oranges, even if Goffin said Coffin said it never occurred to him. But the key thing is at the center of it is there is this tenderness. in the middle of all the madness, there is this central relationship between these two misfit minions who are interested in telling stories and drawing funny pictures and they're more interested in that than what minions ought to be interested in, which is finding big bos, big boss, you know can find the big bos to follow And there is something really genuinely charming about so I keep banging the table, about that central friendship So look, I mean, I thought first it was a love letter to cinema and that always makes me happy because just to see movies made by people who love movies is great. But particularly the cinema of a bygone age, the lessons of which mododern movies do well to learn from. I mean you can still look at silence cineme, you can still look at early cinema. and see storytelling techniques that are so advanced But nowadays, when you're looking at something like Supergo, you think you need to go back and watch an old silent film and how the storytelling works and why it is that it's so clear I laughed like an idiot all the way through. I thought the slapstick jokes were just spectacular. I was really charmed by the the Stanley Unwin esque quality of Mignionise. It's funny because you and I were talk about this before we start recording We're saying that it Stanley Unwyin. I mean, did you think listeners know who Stany Unwin is? No this is where So Mark and I, as you'll heard have done this kind of minion esque kind of just as a way of getting in the groove. and exactly as Pierre Cfin said last week, you know you change it electronically and you mess around with it to end up sounding like pinky and perky. But I said that my script felt a bit like I was Stanley Umwin But I'm almost certain that most people will not undernderstand because he was really before my I mean, he was before my it was my p it was my parents. era really. But I mean, Google him, he's very funny and he speaks in a very strange has a particular way of reconstructing a sentence. But one of the things that he may be most famous for is that he's the narrator of Ogden's notot Gone fllake which is a, you know, a rock album that obviously you'll be familiar with And and he he narrates the story of, you know, the moon and Dangley. And it's and it's it's like he talks gibberish, but it's's it's English, but with gibberish, you can understand what he's saying but it's also kind of nonsense. And that was what he did. and it was an amazing thing. I think there is a lot of Stanley Unwin in Minionese And I was the other thing I think's really important to say is Watching this reminded me just how difficult it is to do these things. Firstly, when we did that little minions thing earlier on, as you said, and it's very, very hard to get it even close to the genius of what's happening with theominions because making gibberish sensible is a very, very hard thing to do. And the other thing is slapstick is one of the hardest forms of moovie comedy. phhysical comedy. now and be talking about animation, but animation is as physical as you know, live action film company because you have to everything has to do with timing And I was just looking at this thinking, they just don't miss a beat just do not miss a beat. I mean, the from the gibberish language to the spot on snare drum like rhythm of the slapstick comedy, it was just Hit after hit after hit and I loved every minute of it. And I think you did too Y, yes. absolutely. It was well, I think as you probably heard last week that There are very few films Even if it's a joy filled ninety minute cinematic experience where you think, I'll have another one then, you know, because no, I've seen it, it's fine. I'll come back to it in a couple of years. but I did feel as though I had had clearly taken less from it Yeah, obviously the more you know about movies, the more you're going to get. It's still funny, likeike you said, you can take a ten year old and they're still going to laugh. but the more you know about the movies, the more you'll find it intriguing. And I would like to see it again, knowing more about it Just fab. I' just like to see it again. I just like to see it what again. I wonder what the movie of the week will be because that is it for this week. This has been a Sony music enttertertainment production. This week's team was Jen Eric and Josh. The producer was Dom, the reactor Simon Paul, in Take two, although he's disappeared to go watch a movie. In takeake two, we're directing you to the Overflow car park for more chat about current film releases, plus fiveive Qion film Club Three questions, your Majesty. Thank you. Quion, Tmestens. in which case, in which this week we're asked how many commemorative popcorn buckets we've acquired and if AI scraping is really all that bad Really You can get it ad free along with the full back catalogue and the chance to vote on future episodes by signing up to our Patreon. Just say Kodomo Patreon for the exclusive good just search Komomo Patreon. for the exclusive good stuff, Mark, what is your film of the week? Now. Navana, is it? No, Minions are monsters. I loved, loved, loved, loved, loved it Back next week with director Thomas Cale, who's just produced Moana as a live action Disney reimagining Mark's review of that film an Evil Dead Burn, and I think I'll bestow a year's ultra membership to our correspondent of the week who I think I will make Uh Jocelyn Mr. Jocelyn Evans, member of the Goths and slightly skeptical about disisclosure dayay. Any it was very entertaining. You get the ultra membership. Thank you very much, indeed for listening. Please email any thoughts to correspondents at Kberamo. com