The Hand of Death Conspiracy

Yeah. Cannibalism started. On the left. Rollin', rollin', rollin'. What? Rollin' rollin'. When did you do the Henry Lee Lucas episode? 2015, actually. I'm looking right in here. Seven almost uh almost ten years ago. Yeah, nine years. A month from now. Wow. Nine years. Nine years. So yeah we are. Nine years. Are we ready? Nine long years. Nine years. Never getting back. Never getting back, never getting younger. Oldly getting older. Ucome a corpse. Corbs. To my own friends. Help me. Nine long years podcasting. Ain't never gonna be the same. Nine long years since we've covered this project. Nine years. Many years since we actually started this. Yeah, it's much longer than that. It's much longer. Right at my wife my wife and I's first kiss. Was it the Henry Lee Lucas? Yeah. I actually do remember recording one of the episodes of Henry Lee Lucas after one of our first dates. Natalie was staying inside of the living room. And I was doing the episode in the other room. Welcome to the last update on the left, ladies and gentlemen. That's the only romantic story you're gonna hear in connection to Henry Lee Lucas. One of the most disgusting killers to ever confess to many, many crimes. He made me horny. He made me horny. Do you ever think do you think that he ever got a passionate kiss? Henry Lee Lucas? From a corpse. I do think the old happened. You lay it on top of you? Yeah. I mean, give it to me. Yeah, now a tongue. Oh, tongue fellow. I would imagine you'd have to wait until it was it had been dead long enough for it to really get a bunch of fluids going, and then you flop it on top of you, and the more fluids you get, the more passionate the kiss is. Yeah, passion first. Welcome to the update of Henry Lee Lucas. And what do we know more of now? How full of shit he was, and back jam full of shit. Exactly what I was gonna say. I can't bel I've heard this guy's name a million times. I can't believe this one pisses me off. More than any of them. So many people Yes. And we'll never get over the fact that he just it's the sounds of Henry Lee Lucas drinking the milkshake. In the documentary series. It's a lot. Confession killer is what it was called. Yeah, I never want to see a man with a Graveyard for a mouth smiling with a mouthful of vanilla milkshake. Because it's just that look of it, he's just like, he's good. Correction. Straw bear milk. Oh yeah, that light about the straw bear ass that looks like a girl had her minosh in a night. wide a stick period juice inside yeah I got that one too Henry Lucas for those of you who don't know who this guy is is for many many years like Henry Lucas when you talked about like biggest body counts out of all the serial killers. Throughout the eighties and nineties, it was always Henry Lee Lucas. No one would ever top. No one ever top. Go up to six hundred. People would say. Yes. At some point. But it has come out in recent years and and it was always rumored throughout. Like any time I think the the book that we used at the time, I can't remember or the t the two books we use. One of them is still one of my favorite true crime books ever, but the the Yeah. Like those would allude to the possibility that he didn't kill as many as he says that he killed. But I mean, true crime books at least back in the eighties and nineties, like they went for the most sensationalist. glorious story that you could possibly tell. Oh and we love them. And honestly, last podcast and left was a direct reaction. to all of this material we had read all over the years about like and and wanted to and they had this tone and all had the same tone. And Henry Lee Lucas is such a great example of it. And just so you guys know, so the we'll catch you up real quick, but all of you basically know. who Henry Lee Lucas is, if you've gotten to this podcast already. He was an American serial killer who's active in the fifties, sixties, and seventies. They probably I don't remember when he was arrested. He was arrested for the first time in nineteen fifty nine. That was the first time he was nineteen nineteen sixty was the first he committed his first murder. in nineteen sixty. When was he in jail? Uh he was in jail from nineteen sixty until nineteen seventy. Then he was again thrown in jail until about nineteen seventy six. He claims that his most active times were between the late seventies in the early eighties. Let's go to let's just give a full refresher. Since it has been nine fucking years. Nine years. Yeah. Nine years ago I went into the studio. Nine years later I came out. Married. Why am I like this? Why does it continue? So like after you and Natalie had sex for the first time, were you like laying there and be like, so like there's this guy, Lucas. No, and yes. Probably. That was all of our first conversations. How do you think he got Carolina? So but I've never not been like that. You owe Henry Lee Lucas a thank you. Hey, Henry Lee Lucas. Hey, thanks for helping me get with my beautiful, beautiful wife. And wherever you are, in fucking hell, I hope that you can still, I guess, hear us make love. Carolina didn't listen to an episode of last podcast until we moved in together. That was just a protector. Although we did have that that is one of the first things that we did uh bond on was like her extreme end like uh conversation that we had uh about um David Parker Wright. Yeah. Yeah, about the toy box killer. Great. Who uh it turns out we're worse than this. Much worse conversation than this than I had with Natalie. Far worse conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well I mean he did kill three people. Three people. Yeah. You know, and it's weird to think to look at him and be like Not much. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, he expected You said he was six hundred. Now it's three. So all right. Continue to do the rundown for Eddie. Yeah. So he was born 1936. We talk a lot. Actually, I think Kenry Lee Lucas may have been when we coined the term serial killer soup. When we talked about like the with serial killers, there are certain factors that come into play that create a serial killer. Having a no-leg sex worker mother that gets dragged around in a cart is one of them. I thought she was the one. The father had no legs. That's right. But that was right. He was in the cart and he couldn't beat the mom because he didn't have any legs. So he couldn't get at the mom. So he she she'd leave him behind in the cart. Well no, what she would do is that she was a sex worker and she would bring customers home and she would have sex in front of Both her legless husband and her son, Henry Lee Lucas. Now is that extra? Honestly, uh Unfortunately, I can't complete the act, ma'am, unless your peg legged husband is in the room. It could be less. I don't know. I think it's extra to like put him out in the back porch. Oh yeah, all you hear is that. You did! You did He was beat. Yeah. Mercilessly. I mean, grew up in a dirt floor shack in the backwoods of Virginia. I mean his siblings were farmed out to institutions, relatives, foster homes, didn't get past fifth grade, and famously had an IQ of about eighty seven, which is around it's the same IQ. Actually, it's a higher IQ than for Gary No than Gary Ridgway. Oh yes, yes. Gary Ridgway is by far which we are gonna redo Gary Ridgeway. We are gonna redo Gary Ridgeway. Gary, uh he was not the brightest pulp in the pack. Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer, who probably had around eighty murders. Truly one truly the most one of the most prolific serial killers in history. Yeah, I think only Samuel Lil at least as far as America goes, like we don't Hold a candle to the South American guy. No, no, no. South American guys have body counts in the hundreds. Just because he was killing killing six kids at the time. Doesn't count. Okay, that's like Sammy Sosa. Technically there should be an asterisk next to a lot of those crimes. You shouldn't be allowed to get them in a group. But Gary Ridgway had I think his a IQ was eighty three, which I think was the same as Forrest Company. No, seventy five. Seventy five. Seventy five. Your mother's career about. Education that could have been Henry Lee Lucas's mother. Absolutely. What a Gentlewoman. Yeah. But his father died of hypothermia in nineteen fifty one when he drunkenly fell asleep outside during a snowstorm. Yeah, it's yeah, you don't wanna do that. Santa Claus. At eighteen, uh Lucas was sentenced to four years in prison. Started off as a burglar, was proved to have uh committed a dozen burglaries around Richmond, Virginia, escaped in nineteen fifty seven, because it was a lot easier to escape prison in nineteen fifty seven than it is today. Oh, I bet especially if it wasn't like a You're not in uh Attica or Alcatraz. You're literally like in some shitty like local prison. You're in jail. Yeah. I also just can't believe how little time everyone keeps getting for murder back in the day. Well this is just four years in prison. Well it depends on whether or not you did it in the name of war. Yeah. Well I mean this is for burglaries. Four years in prison for burglaries, a dozen burglaries. That's fine. That's a sentence. That's a legitimate sentence. Yeah. He got released in 1959, and within a year of being released, he had murdered his mother. Yeah. Yeah. He had migrated from Virginia to Michigan to join his sister Opal, but his mother kept calling and calling and calling and calling and calling. And he's like, Mom. I'm sick you keep calms on me. I'm we mad, mama. I don't live with you no more. So she literally was just calling a bunch? She was calling him to say like come home, take care of me, take care of me. Come on, come on. I'll never gu yeah, I'll always ruin the day my mom learned to text. Because now I get like 4D guilt. Man, that was so much better for me. I could always text a a no to my mom much easier than I could say it out loud. See, I love saying no out loud. So Henry Lucas's mother came for Christmas, immediately disapproved of Henry Lucas's fiance, a woman named Stella. Yeah, Stella, because If you look at Henry Lee Lucas. He looks like this might be insulting to the man. He's got John Kerry vibes. And also John Kerry. Do you think? Oh, that John Kerry. He looks like if John Kerry fucked a hollowed out jack-o' lantern and they had a baby. But he's so tiny, too. Who? Henry Loucas? Yeah, and John Kerry's very large. But I'm just saying, if you look at their faces, he's got Lincoln face. Their faces do actually look very similar, except you know, uh Henry Loucas has the droopy eye, the same droopy eye that uh Gean has. I feel like your insults are compliments. Holy fucking shit. I forgot that he died in 2001. Yeah. Right before nine eleven. Fucker got to miss it. Damn, and he would've loved it. Oh, that makes me so sad. He would have loved nine eleven. So Henry Lucas's mother while visiting Henry and demanding that he return with her. Like she stayed throughout the holidays. She stayed around until January eleventh. That's when she struck Lucas over the head with a broom. He struck back. And then stabbed her in the neck with a knife. Yeah, got Mommy real bad, and that was number one. And then he says, I guess after that, that kind of changed his whole brain, where he just decided then kill anything that would be a quote unquote problem to him, or or then he got a he got a bit of a taste for Didn't you take anything he said seriously? No, no, absolutely not. But yeah, because w everything he said after the fact is all just kind of gross. But he did Hey, he loved his child bride more than a lot of people love their child brides. He did, but let's wait. We're not quite to the child bride just yet. Thank you. He was found, arrested, sentenced to forty years in prison at Jackson State Penitentiary, unsuccessfully tried suicide. Many, many times. He did. Yeah. He was very emotional. Yes, he was a very emotional human being. Was transferred to a state hospital under sh electric shock therapy, behavior therapy, and was on a lot of doses of antidepressants. But after just ten years in prison, they released the man who murdered his mother due to prison overcrowding. And I got a feeling there's like Guys who should have gotten out beforehand. Yeah. Like someone who stole a car. Yeah. No, but like you probably were like, describe your mother. He's like, I imagine a wolverine if it raised you. They're like, you're free, sir. let him out because as we know he's fucking good with cops. Well it's he we he but he buddied up later on. It's a weird relationship that he had with cops later on. We'll talk about it because he it's it's Well I think what you also see uh with Henry Lee Lucas and and it's interesting considering the direction that he went with his confessions at one point, that what he reminds me of Is the sorts of confessions that you got from children During the satanic panic. That's what I mean. They're all yep. And we'll get to that here in a bit. After another stint in prison, he of course got out and immediately tried abducting a 15 year old at gunpoint. He was in prison, and that's where he met Odis Toole. Yeah, his his John Lennon. Because I'm the thing, if I were to make them Beatles. I would say that he is Paul McCartney. Henry Lucas is the Paul McCartney. Sure. Odis Toole is the John Lennon. And the child bride is Ringo. Yeah. And the sheriff is George Harrison. Do you know much about Otis Tool? Have you seen pictures of this? I mean I I I watched the whole documentary today. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking fucked up horrible looking lackey from Florida. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, and you pretty much got it. He's got a lazy eyes, huge cock. Yeah. Game. I was gonna say he kept like. Looking at him like they like fucking kiss all the time. Eddie we probably should have done more of it. Guess what you did? What? You just found out something. Because they did fucking kiss. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Now you know. You got now. You know what Honest Tool looks like and you know what Henry Lee Lucas looks like. Now imagine them fucking each other hardcore, dude. And that's because they ain't. Red shoe diaries, man. No, no, no shoe diaries. This would have been like How but you won't curl your front tail like stuff like that. It'd be like I don't know. I don't know if I'm ready to go yet. Well it's I don't know if they mentioned it in the documentary, but it's uh suspected the Odysse Tool was the one Who murdered John Walsh's son. Really clean. Oddest Tool quote unquote created John Walsh, but then that turned into another That's also a weird story. Don't know if it's real or not. It's a very strange story. But yeah, you know, John Walsh, America's most. I found his head. I was down in Florida when all this shit was going down. You were? You found the head. No, yeah I was there, I was like, Whoa, look at his fucking head! Think you had like six? Seven? Whoa. Man, talk about it. Like out of everyone. John Walsh really capitalized on their child's murder more than anyone. Hey. Eric Clapton, buddy. Eric Clapton is already famous. But that gave him his fourth hack. Yeah. That was a great song. Beers in Heaven. I'm gonna rewrite it for when my dad dies into Beers in Heaven, and I'm gonna sing that same exact song. Would you pay my tab if I saw you in heaven? Ha ha ha. Would you buy around if I saw you in the Soul and Henry Lee Lucas like say whatever you want about 'em, but I do truly believe that these men were in love with each other. They yeah, they were special. They matched each other's freak. Yeah. They claimed later on that between the late 70s and early 80s that they went on a killing spree in which they murdered basically anybody who would get in the car with them, or anybody that they could kidnap, or anybody that just happened to be in the general vicinity. Basically saying that it started with 100, then it went to 200, then it went to 400, then it went to six hundred. Well the and if you w if anybody's ever seen Henry Henry portrait of a serial killer, it's kind of exactly like that. It's a wandering constant murder, rape, and mayhem. And that's about Henry Lee Lucas? It is loosely based it's loosely based on the idea of a serial killer like that. An opportunity killer. Not somebody that is so Henry Lee Lucas if uh if all of what he said was real. He was you'd be considered a like Because you know we have process and product killers and you have people that plan and stalk. BTK was someone who put a lot of time and energy into picking who he would kill. And like a lot of people do that, or Jeffrey Dahmer, like they kind of figure out like a subset and how to get the people they kill. Henry Lucas and Ace Tool if they are to believed, killed everyone within sight. Yeah. Anybody that they could get their hands on. And there was no way that he they'd ever have time for a date. Which is honestly why they didn't last. Like, you know, couples go through so much. We just were so busy. day to day life, then we don't just sit and just think be like, hey, like I love killing these hitchhikers with you. I just don't believe they would have a car that would run that well. And that's the thing, is that they said that they would crisscross the country and that's why they never got caught, because they were so transient. By the time a body was found in Colorado, they were already in Washington State. You know, and that they could, you know, cover you know thousands of miles in like a matter of days. We run on love This hitchhiking murdering car chooses love. It was during this time that Lucas lived with Tool and with Tool's mother. And Tul's niece, preteen Becky Powell, the aforementioned child bride. See, because I feel like he went with Becky. So like Henry Lucas began a real quote unquote relationship with Becky the child. And I think partially it had to do with almost in a way being like, you know, like proper with all the sonada. You know, so I think that it's time for me to really settle down. I think it he did actually say that at one point. Yeah, you know, Aldus, I love the way you plumb me. And I love the way you dug me. But almost when it come down to it, I know we can't get married, now the Lord. Right, so I gotta be with his child. Yeah. Apparently uh his Odis Tool's penis is disturbingly large. Gotta be a lot for a man to take. You know what I could see. Yes, I could see it too. Like the kind that doesn't get hard all the way. Yeah, big and loopy. Yeah. Yeah. Like a scrubber. You know when like a dog's got a leg that doesn't work? Yeah. But it's still attached. Yeah. I know that story. No, it's like your dog's got four Odysse Tool dicks. Isn't that nice? Well after Odysse Tool's mother died. Henry Lee Lucas claims that the three of them Odis Henry and Becky. The three of them started touring the country and killing anyone that they found. Yes. That's until they found 82 year old Katie Rich, whose family quickly kicked them out after accusing Lucas and Betty of writing checks from Rich's account. Yeah, that's a weird story. I forgot about that whole section of time where he's like living with the old lady and they're all like shacking up and let's just say again, not great tenants. Yeah. And then they got picked up by like a Pentecostal minister who was like totally cool with Henry Lee Lucas married like being married to a I think she was 13. Yeah, yeah. I mean that shit was happening back then. It was not a lot though. You honestly not a lot. I if you look at it across the board, it's still pretty frowned upon. Yes. Well depends on what part of the country you're in. But even in Jerry Lee Lewis. Remember Jerry Jerry Lee Lewis when he went to the UK and then they all fucking like he basically got kicked out of the UK because he showed up with his child bride? Yeah, but he was a world famous musician. We're talking about Henry Lee Lucas here. Yeah. No one's paying attention to what Henry Lee Lucas is doing. We are. Now. Now. But there's Trust me, Virginia and that entire area of the world. I well I wonder what his opinion was on Megan Markle. I wonder how he feels about Jojo Siwa. probably wasn't alive when he died. But while Henry Lee Lucas was living with this minister that's totally cool with all this shit. They had an apartment. Henry Loucas got a job as a roofer. Um things everything was fine then. Yeah. And it was they kind of lived at like a weird commune at this abandoned chicken ranch. Then they felt homesick for Florida, and Lucas tearfully informed the minister that Becky jumped into a passing truck and left him, and Lucas continued living on the ranch, but no one ever heard from Becky Powell ever again. Yeah. A month after that, the old lady that Henry Lee Lucas was living with, Katie Rich. She disappeared, and authorities were, of course, led immediately to the weird drifter that had been accused of writing checks in her name just a few months earlier. I don't know why everybody seems to push it. Now I'm some kind of suspect why who's not here anymore. She moved on. She got a job out state, she's working for NASA. Yeah, I love my wife, my child bride. She doing so well. Yeah, she went off to child bride school to learn how to take it better. I thought he was I thought she was working for NASA. Kill you in child bride school is just school. So on June 10th, 1983, Lucas was arrested for unlawful possession of a firearm. And while in jail, he began confessing. You wrote a letter to the sheriff. To whom it may concern, I, Henry Lee Lucas, to try to clear this matter up. I killed Kate Rich on September last year. I have tried to get help so long and no one will help. I have killed for the past ten years and no one will believe it. I love your tone for the To whom it may concern. I Henry Lee Lucas. I'm just gonna try to clear this matter up. I did kill Kate Rich. I'm super sorry about it. You sound like an AI narrative. Yeah. I have killed for the past ten years and no one will believe it. I actually do at some point I think that life sucks. I think confessing made him feel good. I think he felt I don't think that Henry Lee Lucas is a serial killer in any way whatsoever. No, I think he's a dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb mean man. I think murdering people made him feel extraordinarily guilty. I think he was extremely guilty that he had killed this old lady who had been nice to him. I love this idea. It's just like that's such a it's like, you know, the story of the rattlesn you pick up the rattlesnake, you know? It's like it's just he he an old lady was nice to him, and because she was nice to him, uh he killed her and and fucked her corpse uh in a culvert. See, I feel the guilty part. Yeah it's weird because like when did the guilty part start? It was like he killed her and then her mock. Damn it, why'd you make me- Our whole dress slipped off. Well let me just Well, if she's still warm, maybe you don't count as dead. Yeah. We just gotta squeeze them a little bit. Squeeze them. I'm I feeling guilty. Hey, no, are we feeling guilty? Are you talking to him or yourself? I don't know. Let me feel around a little more. Not guilty yet. Maybe so maybe. Nah. I'm not doing this act out. No, I'm not. I'm not either. There's no one else to be. I'm waiting for my improv. Where are we gonna be? The dirt on which this corpse is being violated? Oh, honest. I didn't even know you were here. But after a couple of days, like he started feeling guilty about leaving this body behind. So he got went well, actually I don't know if he started feeling guilty. I think he realized that someone was going to find the body of her choice. So he took it back to his apartment at the chicken farm. burned her body in a stove over the course of two days. And then after he admitted to that crime, he said he needed to get something else off his chest and admitted to killing the child bride, Becky Powell. He said they were arguing while trying to hitch a ride because she wanted to go back to Jacksonville, but he had a warrant out for his arrest in Florida, so he couldn't go back. And they decided to sleep in an empty field off the road. After arguing that night, Becky hit Lucas on the side of the head, and he retaliated by stabbing Becky in the chest. He said, She sort of just sat there for a little bit and then just dropped over, you know? Yeah. Yeah, of course. How horrible is it with him that she wanted to go back to Jacksonville? Yeah, she's choosing nineteen eighty-three Jacksonville. But yeah, but or it's kiss Henry Lee Lucas again. Yeah. Do I drive to Jacksonville or do I look over at John Kerry sitting there in his black hole sun? filter going like Ah yeah I remember Lucas cut Becky into small pieces and stuffed her remains into pillowcases except her legs, and Lucas returned two weeks later to bury her remains. Once again Hemory Lucas was charged with murder, and at his arraignment, Lucas asked the judge What are we going to do about these other a hundred women I killed? And it's he's just like, uh Stoop. Fuck you. Yeah. Yeah. And of course so it starts with this. It really was like The smartest thing he ever did his whole life. Yeah. In a weird way. I mean that's what we said about Gary Ridgway so many years ago, is that like, yeah, Gary Ridgway's really bad at IQ tests, but you know what he's really good at? Well it just turns out though the it's Unfortunately, it's how you do it. It's and it and it's the method by which you do it and w it's Justin. When you're doing things spur of the moment. It's extremely Difficult to catch the guys. when they're doing shit spur of the moment. When they're planning, you can begin to build an MO. You can begin to build how they look at victims. You can figure kind of how to catch 'em in some time. Sometimes. 'Cause you're like, oh, they're in this area, they're trianguling around this like kinda don't like when Gary Ridgway He was murdering people just like in an uh the real fashion. This is actually a very interesting take on this, because technically Gary Ridgway is the real Henry Lee Lucas. Like so he did it. He was like a product killer. Like essentially well no, Gary Ridrey was full process killer. So you like to strangle him to death. The only cared about was strangling sex workers' his whole life in detailing cars. And he was like the best detailer in all of Seattle. Yes. And and so he would just draw but it was the wide area that he did it with, and then the very simple way that he did it. And then I guess it's like How you stay hidden. It's weird. It was his simplicity. It was actually And also Sex workers because they just didn't And it was all pre-DNA. Yeah. But I mean with Gary Ridgway, that is somewhat the irony of it is that it was his stupidity and his simplicity that kept him from getting caught. Yeah. Uh where people who go a little bit more complicated with it leave a much larger trail behind. It's why Patrick tries to cover it up. Yeah. These incredible performers. See like a the empty vessel. Yes. That you fill with water. You fake. Very similar. Gary Ridgeway, Patrick Swayze? Extremely similar. What we learned from Swayze is you can't dance your way out of cancer. Jesus Christ. It's the saddest thing that's been said on the show. Because a lot of people, honestly, I want to say that there is a thing called dance against cancer. I want to say that there's a whole thing that's saying that, oh dance, but it's like it's where that the dance is a celebration of people, people give it money, but the can't the dancing itself is not going to cure the cancer. It's actually called I'm a Dancer against cancer. Yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely. That so he had dancer, not cancer. We're gonna take a deeper look at all this. And so You're welcome, Sirius. You asked for this. Contractually obligated. So the Texas Rangers, they're basically the ones that we can blame for all of this bullshit. Yeah, so they kinda got they they He sort of became a pet project for them. Yeah. Well so Texas Rangers are not There are Oh, don't fuck, please, Marcus. Please for the love of God. I cannot deal with the ire of the Texas Marshals or the Texas Rangers. I just don't want I just want to be able to go through Texas. I want to be able to drive through Texas. I mean they are definitely complicit. I know. They're very complicit. And remember how we talked about, remember the Bonnie and Clyde story? Yes. And how much the Texas Rangers were complicit in that. Yes. Uh and I think it was maybe the M Barker st no, it wasn't M Barker. But yeah, it they were definitely complicit in like the Bonnie and Clyde story. They're but they're famously a very corrupt institution. They're not crushing it. Yeah. They're not crushing it. That's my review. I mean I'm sure that's Two stars. Two st two stars. They built a task force led by former Texas Rangers Williamson County Sheriff Jim Boutwell and retired Texas Ranger Bob Prince, and they started actively investigating up and down the I-35 interstate between Austin and the U.S. Dallas. And so what they started doing is they started asking Henry Lee Lucas, hey. This murder. Did you commit this murder? And Henry go, Yep. Yep. Yeah, and then and then the tech strangers would go. Alright! Yeah, what about this murder? And he'd go And then you go. And they brought in another murderer. And now this is also I really feel like a lot of it happened with the minister, too. Well the minister was a big part of it. Yeah. Yeah. This woman named That's kind of really what got him in that like Kind of manic confession mode. Because this lady came 'Cause I now I actually see this entirely different. That's what the nine years does. Is that like I see what you're saying was that he Actually is a dim witted. He is mean spirited. But in his weird way, he's a people pleaser. Yes. Yeah. He actually had this thing where he felt real guilty. He has a criminal psychosis. Yes. He has no he can't control his impulses. He's got a he is the epitome of antisocial personality disorders. He should be locked in a. The what they eventually did is lock him in a fucking box until he dies. Yes, 'cause he's bad at everything. He's bad at life. He could've been a good waiter. Oh, you know, honestly, I've met a lot of sketchy waiters. A lot of sketchy waiters, but I still love them. I love each one of them. You gotta remember a lot when you're a waiter. That's why I couldn't be every time I always got fired from waiter jobs because I couldn't remember anything. Yeah, but he used to remember all the weird little details. He was making it up. And he was also. Yeah. Repeating back the things, yeah. No a waiter They're the conciliary of the entire experience. Coming in here, they're greeting and creating an uh atmosphere welcoming. You feel like, oh, I'm a party that's I'm invited to a party and I'm cool for being here. And that's a person throwing the party, right? That's the waiter. He's throwing the party. And he's coming in here and he's trying to make me feel cool for being there, right? Set the scene. Exploring, celebrating food. Celebrating Epicurean interests. What was the use of that? Let me get back to my original point. So he got when he met the chaplain. And I think that he's a woman named Clemmy. The nun. The nun. When he met Dead Man Walking Lady, essentially. He felt, I think that, you know, this is a full backseat psychologist. He thought about the pastor that he fucked up and he fucked up his whole life with and stuff. Now he met this religious person. That is treating him with respect and kindness that he has never had before. And now he's willing Do whatever that woman tells him to know. She's treating him like a baby. She's cutting up his food. She's cutting his hair. He's never had a mom. And so she in in police interrogations, they specifically will key into stuff like that to fuck with you, to get you to sort of respond. Like they they know like If you were like There was one I just watched recently where there was a big fat idiot that they were uh interrogating. And the first th the first thing they asked him was like Do you want any cupcakes? You know, somebody just made a bunch of cupcakes. And so this guy came in, they brought him a bunch of cupcakes at the top and he's and like this guy, he'd killed his family. And he's like eating the cupcakes and he's just being like, I forgot what he said. He was I think he said like Daddy likes them. Like I forget what he said where he was like, ha ha ha ha ha. And they're all sitting there watching like, oh, you like that, huh? Oh yeah. And then they slowly butter you up to get you to talk. This lady, maybe she wanted to fuck Henry Lee Lucas. I think she Clemmy wanted to get that dugout. I she was into him for sure. She had to be. She didn't spend that much time with him. I think she got off on it. Uh I I think she got off on the conversion. I mean on like let's turn this guy around like this is a a horrible killer. Like it's like getting w getting a win. We got we got one. We got a big win, a big conversion here. It's like making friends with the tiger. Yeah. Yeah. And if you make friends with the tiger, then don't you feel very powerful. Exactly. Yeah. And so An arrangement was coordinated between Henry Lee Lucas, this nun named Clemmy. Texas Ranger, Jim Boutwell, and Texas Ranger, Bob Prince, so Lucas could cooperate and continue to talk. And Henry was like genuinely happy at jail. This was the happiest he ever was. This is the best time of his life. Yeah. Walked around without handcuffs on. Chummy with the staff gets three squares, you know, you know, three squares the cot, you know, and he's happy as fuck. Oh yeah, because he had a struggle just to get that before. And then also they're giving him special meant to. He's getting hamburgers and milkshakes and lots of cigarettes. Lots of cigarettes. Lots of cigarettes. Like riding in the front seat of the car. That made me so crazy. Walking around with no fucking he's like walking around with a cup of coffee and a cigarette and no handcuffs, like joking around with people losing my mind. It's because he was doing the police's jobs for them. 'Cause all of a sudden, once word got out that there was a guy that claimed that he had murdered over six hundred people or at this point. He's still at a hundred. At this point he's saying I'd murdered a hundred people and I'd killed people in every corner of this country. Name a corner of this country and I killed someone there, but especially like Texas, South West, like basically the South, you know, from from Florida to Texas. And so all these detectives who had all these cold cases started coming in and asking Henry Lee Lucas about these crimes. And what they would do is they would show 'em photos, they would show him crime scenes, they'd show them little they'd give him little things. And he'd repeat shit back to them. Little by little. You know, like he he would pull the information out of them without them really even knowing that he was doing it. Because every time he got a gold star, every time he got like, hey, yay, you got a murder charge. Literally said he was a good guy. They loved him. They loved him. Yeah. They'd shake his hand, they'd pat him on his back. Thank you so much. Yeah, because these people, these cause these cold cases, like they haunt. These fucking people they haunt these cops because the law of the laws and the families. And a lot of pressure is coming from the families to do something about the crime. But these aren't like big city crimes. This isn't Dallas. This isn't Houston. Like this is Zone June or whatever. This is fucking Colorado City, Tex. You know, like this is like 'cause my dad, I I mean I told this on the Henry Lee Lucas episode is that my dad ended up in a restaurant with Henry Lee Lucas on one of these jaunts. Oh, really? Yeah. When we were living when I was a kid, we lived in a town called Colorado City. There's just this small fucking town. And it was what? Cause they would take Henry Lee Lucas out. to like certain sites and dad said that he was just sitting there having lunch one day and in walks Henry Lee Lucas and a couple of cops think they just sit down and of course nothing came of it. But it's these small towns of just like a few hundred people, a few thousand people where murder really means something. Where like murder fucks up an entire community and these cops go crazy trying to solve it. And so they go to Henry Lee Lucas and he Absolves them. Yes. He he absolves them. These cops can go back to their hometown. They can talk to the family. They can say, hey, it was this Henry Lee Lucas guy. You know, we can we we got him. We finally got 'em. You're got you know, your your daughter Can rest now. And Henry Lee Lucas, what did he get out of it? Well, he got out of his jail cell. He'd get strawberry milkshakes, he'd get cigarettes, he'd get steaks. Yeah, he had to be he got to get a life he never got before this. Yeah. Or he ever would have gotten. Ever would have gotten it. He was treated like a legitimate celebrity. People like and also I I think people also discount like how good it feels. Let's just say he's not had a lot of positive validation. No. Right? And so now he's getting celebrated. So he's like feeling like like maybe I can give back. Maybe this is it. Maybe this is my way making everybody smile, you know? Meanwhile, like is he's just a uh a haunted evil child man. Craziest thing, I didn't know this, uh, this is and this is why we do the update show is uh they wanted so many different samples from him, like saliva, fingerprints, hair. They asked for so much of his pubic hair. That he ran out. And they had to wait for more to grow back. Just it. Well, unfortunately I'd like to give you more, but as you can see, I'm a bit of a Suzanne Summers downstairs. Shaved the nards. Well originally he talked Did you see anymore come? Honestly, I've got just because I was already doing it, I don't know if we need any spit or shit either, because that's all gonna kinda be in one cup, then. Well by February 1984, the task force had Tied Henry Lee Lucas to forty seven cases. And by May of the same year, that number rose to One hundred and seven. grew by another forty nine by August of nineteen eighty four. So this guy is being not charged with, but Over a hundred and fifty murders, they're saying like, yep, solved. No. That was Henry Lee. Yeah. So what's up with these Rangers? Like they have to be in on this. They have to know they're doing the wrong thing. The the power of self deception. can be very strong. The optics of we've caught this super predator. So not only like it's it's not that they're covering up the I I think they're who knows about covering up crimes or whatever, but I think it's more like more they attach to him too, not only do they get these murders off the board. But also it bolsters up all these guys. hanging out with this fucking crazy serial killer. They all caught, right? So like the more they build up his roster of death and his standing, it raises their standing too. It also raised Henry Lucas' standing because then he gets to portray himself as this evil mastermind serial killer. protects him in jail, like of later on down the fact, and it gives him power within jail. That's that's jail political power. I know, but it's all like it's just drives me crazy because he's so tiny. Yeah. He wouldn't have won all these fights. Even if they were all just women. That's what Odis Tool was there for, because Odis Tool was what, like six five? Yeah, Odis Hol was a big A fucking horrible and he did God knows what those honest fools are. Oh, he's the real fucking criminal. But Henry Lou Henry Lou Lucas killed three people for certain. And I actually do think it is more than the three people, but it is not. Hundreds of people. I don't think it is. I think he killed so because the people that you look at, like it's exactly. Everything else had a reason that he killed. They all had like a distinct Reason why he did it. Except for the old lady. The old lady didn't really have a reason but probably asked him for rent. Yeah, something like that. Probably at some point just being like, I might have to call the police or like this is getting you're weird. Because the other two murders was like some a woman hit him and he responded by stabbing her. Yeah. But uh yeah, that is his story. It's that is true. That is true. Um but I think another big thing about this with the Rangers is that it confirms a certain world view. that I think some of these people really enjoy subscribing to. I mean, I know this from growing up in Texas. Texas is It's an evil place. Yeah, it it is there's a reason why It's the Russia of America. I still like Texas. And I'm not saying that I love Texas. I'm not saying that Texans are evil. I'm saying Texas is an evil place. Because over the years, like I would ask myself, like, why don't we cover more stories Texas. Why don't we cover more Texas true crime? The answer is that Texas true crime is fucking brutal and pointless. Yeah, a lot of it's pretty fucking rough. It's it's harsh. It's brutal. It's po like it is a fucking it is a You know, and it always has been. You know, there's that famous quote is that like if uh if I own Texas, I'd rent out Texas and live in hell. 'Cause Texas is fucking it can be a it's a very, very harsh place. And I think people who and I know people who live there Some people really enjoy that reputation. Oh, of course. They enjoy that reputation. Well because there's a reason why they exist. And they're the line between chaos and order. Exactly. They like to have they like the world to be in more evil place than it really is because it makes them bigger men. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's this idea that you've got it's you're m way necessary. You're very strong and you're very big. And of course that became much larger when Henry Lee Lucas started talking about Hand of death. Now hand of death is we're just gonna just straight up right here. It is absolutely the stupidest fucking conspiracy theory on the face of the planet. I'm saying it right now. I'm sorry, Dave McGowan. I know you're sad. It's the dumbest show. Whatever. Whatever he is, but there are people out there that act like Allen. Yeah. I just like I think that he's I think that uh that it's all very stupid, except I do believe more and more that there are other internected connected people. But the idea that the CIA trained Henry Lee Lucas, I just feel like we trained Osama bin Laden. Yes, that's right. Yeah, but he's like come on. You think the kind of money that we put behind the CIA, we're gonna get a Henry Lee Lucas. Come on, guys. Well the hand of death was supposedly a cult that practiced human sacrifice. It's an outcropping of the satanic panic. But they worked alongside the CIA to provide children in order for them to get uh their proper testing subjects. For the beginnings of MK Ultra. Sure, except it happened way after MK Ultra. But it's because MK Ultra never ended. And also I feel like the CIA isn't gonna get rid of a perfectly good sex worker. What do you mean? Well they yeah, they'd say they'd take a live girl. I mean, it's one of those things where I I think it it's this is around the time of the satanic panic, and I think Clemme the Nun was starting to be influenced by that sort of shit. Sure. And I think that Henry the I think They Bill Henry Lucas started ping ponging ideas and it got weirder and weirder and worse and worse because I think Clemmy was starting to look for reasons behind all this, because I don't think she could I even though none of it was real, I don't think she could wrap her head around concept of a man killing hundreds of women just because Well the only thing that it could possibly be is being in league with Satan. Well and then the idea that you're this monster. You're literal monster. Yeah. Yes. And it's also the idea of, you know, this all the satanic panic shit was going on where everyone's talking about, you know, human sacrifices and there's all these devil worshiping cults all over the country. And but the rational minded people kept asking it's like, okay. Where are the bodies? Where's all the evidence? Where where's the bodies? Where are the evidence? And then now you have Henry Lee Lucas and Odis Tool also joining in on this going, Me too. It was that. Yeah, we know all about it. Yeah, it and uh it's uh they were just excited to talk. And I I do think the idea that they're it It's just very um Also In her mind, you could see being like, if I flip this evil Satanist. I'm the world's best nun. Maybe they'll let me be a priest. Yeah. First I can have a hand at the little boy. Yeah. But you know, Henry Lee Lucas, over the years, like, you know, there's been so many Murders that have been attributed to him to him, but then there's also been a lot of murders that he said I did that have since proved to be committed by other men. Yeah, DNA testing. It's only twenty was the number at the end of the documentary. It's insane. That's out of what 200 or something. Yeah, maybe. But he got convicted for 11. So he ended up going down for 11. They but they put a couple on him, but it's still it was not the same. The Scott Scott one is the most aggravating one of all of them. Yes. The pre- the the troopers kid who killed the store clerk, and then they were like, ah, will you do this for us? Will you take the rap on this? And he just said yes. Of course, because he's like he's the cops are his buddies. And they let the frustrated out. He said he has a comment where he's like, the sheriff who's been the nicest mind to me. He makes sure he takes care of me. And apparently he looked up to the sheriff. He said he was like my he was my friend. He's not a police officer. And then he also said that he was kind of like his daddy. Yeah, and then the sheriff admitted to liking him. Yeah. And the thing is is that how are they not held accountable for this? Huge fucker. I mean, but what law are they breaking? That's the but that's the problem. Texas Rangers. They're retired now. Yeah, dude. They fucking that's what allowed them. That's what allowed them to retire. But they w did it for like another what? Like ten years after that. They did it for a while, yeah. Unfortunately, Eddie, life's not fair. I know I have no parents. Life is very difficult, Eddie. I hate to I hate to break your heart. Yeah, and that was actually there was even one one of the most famous murders in Lubbock, you know, where I went to college. That was uh supposedly a Henry Lee Lucas murder, but I actually found out like there was a whole thing with that murder where they exhumed the body like a year ago and like the sister of the woman who was murdered, she became involved with this like true crime podcast and they ended up having a falling out. Whoa, it was like this massive New York Times magazine article about it that I didn't have time to get into it. We should look at that. That's very interesting. Some weird shit. Yeah, the murder of Deborah Sue Agnew Williamson. Um and then there's the story, where was it, the then the the orange socks. Um, was trying to the the identified Orange Sox was the Jane Doe. That was also attached to Henry Lee Lucas. Well they found out who it was eventually. Yeah, Deborah Jackson from Harris County. Yeah. Well Orange Sox was supposedly the one Pointed to is like, no, look, he's not lying. Uh because he confessed to the murder. Yeah, and then he like knew a couple of details. And he said that I always left the socks on them when I you know as my calling card. Which is not true. He didn't have a calling card in anymore. No, because he killed people with two by fours and ball pens. Whatever he had around. And so Henry Lucas then apparently then in private said he didn't kill her. Yeah. Uh which is uh and then his stories in Jacksonville to check out because they went to go investigate and they found out that he was nowhere near Yeah, he was nowhere near where the murder. Yeah, and they also have on tape the fucking dudes coercing him. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. And the we but the weirdest thing about Henry Lee Lucas, and this is one of the ones that, you know, people point to like the the satanic panic people. Sure. And of course the ones that fold that into like government shit. Yeah. Is that He was the only person out of all the people that were killed when George W. Bush was governor of Texas. He was the only one. whose death sentence was commuted. Yes. Yeah. George W. Bush commuted his death sentence saying that the evidence for the Orange Sox murders was not compelling enough. Like he let Carla Fay Tucker dry. Yes. It is weird. That is why we're like but I think it's not and it's because of the friends he made in the Texas Rangers. I don't think that you have to look that far for the conspiracy. I don't think it's like they got some it's not a satanic conspiracy, it's just straight up boys club, will boys George Bush was the GM Of the Texas Rangers! Baseball team. Yep. It is true. It is true. And I'll never forget uh my uh my buddy West said that he saw during the Carla Fay Tucker uh trial, like when she was being executed, he uh swears to this day that he saw a news reporter say Carla Tayfucker. Oh, wow on TV. God damn. Really, really sad. And that's That's how we're gonna end today. Thank you so much for listening to the last update on the left go check out. All our shows if us on the. Brighter side. Give it a listen in the last podcast network. Patreon.com slash the last podcast on the left is where you can find the video episodes of this show and all last podcast on the left shows. I tell me, Sean. Do they go? W they buck unto. This is called buck hunter. Buck hunter. Buck hunter. Thank you, Marcus. Buck hunter. Would you And a sudden You know this is like the true between Tool and him, it's like it is where Texas meets Florida. It really is. It is. Yeah. It really, really is. And which one's worse? I mean, you know, just more space in Texas. You know. That is true. But they both got gators. They both have gators, but only one has honestly, I mean, you know. You know what I'll say though? Florida? They got a sense of humor. They do. They do. Texas, not big on a sense of humor. Texas is getting universal. What? That's a different podcast. Texas is getting universal? Yeah, Dallas is getting a universal studio. I mean they I mean Six Flags say we go about Texas. Six flags over Texas is great. Except for one of those flags. I gotta take a shit. Thank you for enjoying the Last Update on the Left. You can find other shows that you'll enjoy from the Last Podcast Network on LastPodcastOnTheLeft.com. See you there.