Standalone Apps and Final Wishlist

Hello and welcome to Mac Power Uers. My name is Steven Robliz and joined as always by my friend and yours, David Sparks. How's going, David It's going very well, Mr. Robz. We're heading into WWDC. Can you feel it? I can feel the excitement. I'm excited to see all the IowS twenty seven updates, all of that. And I'm excited for our special guest. It's actually my first time ever podcasting with him as well. I think the first time we've ever spoken in real life, Mike Hurley. Thanks so much for being here. I'm so happy to be here. I don't I think maybe Maybe after Marco, you have to correct me. I have now had the honor of every iteration of the show being a guest. I'm happy to have that honor I will say and I just saying this because I'm here, I amm loving what you guys are doing right now. You're doing a great job. I'm loving MPU. You've still got me as a listener every week, even though my best friend's not there anymore. But Stehven, you couldn't be a better replacement. L you're doing such a great job. And I'm loving the show. It's fantastic. Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. And I honor to talk to you. You know, Ive followed relays since the beginning. and so it is a bit surreal for me now speaking to David Sparks and M Clely. We're happy to have you, Steven. You've got the biggest audience of all of us. so should not be nervous talking to you. We' millions of millions of views on your s gp so So,'re happy. Well, I'm excited too because you just launched something days before we record.es. and it is absolutely blowing up. So not only are you co founder of relay, host of Upgrade, cononnected, how many shows are you actually doing right now? I don't know D't get very good I don't know. wt even idea. But you're about to add another one. So whatever it is, it's about to plus one because you just launched design in California Yeah' going to talk about. it's very excit Yeah, we're really really pumped. I was Very excited to come on the show because I told David about this and he's like, you got to come on the show and promote And in my mind it was like, I'm going to come on and I'm going to sell this to a MacPal users's audience and they'll hopefully willll get us over the funding. but we did it already. So now I get to come on the show and be like me and Jason now we're making this podcast And let me tell you why you should check it out. So that feels really refreshing and exciting Yeah. And not only are we going to talk about this cool project, it's the this show is releasing the day before the keynote. So this is our last chance to dig in on WWDC. So And'll do we'll do something in more powerower years today about DWve and our hopes and dreams in addition to a real show So we'll figure out as we get there as we're excited. But Mike, tell us design in California, have you Sen a podcast Kickstarter before launching because I don't know if I've really been a part of something like this I haven't been a part of it, but it does happen. Okay you know there is precedent for this. I mean Something that Jason has been saying a lot since we started this process, and I'll talk in a minute about where it came from. is that we are treating Kickstarter the way that Kickstarter should be treated in that This will only happen if people fund it and we're not You know, we don't have like a complete product that will be released when the kickstarter is done. right? Like I think a lot of companies now Use Kickstarter as a marketing tool more than a let's get a business started tool Me and Jason are definitely in the category of this can only happen if the funding goal was met, which it has been, because this project is going to be an intense amount of work And for us to do it correctly, which is the only way we want to do it. And so we decided to go to Kickstarter as the way to make that a reality. Yeah. I'm looking at you Kkron in peak design. Yeah. Every time you Kickstarter. this thing isn't a kickstarter, they're gonna make it. Yeah. They like it's like, you know, like the peak design stuff is like Oh, it was delivered in a month. It's like, o, that means it's made.cored. You know, these things have been made across the ocean and shipped it. like you're good. like you've done these things Look, it's no shade on people that do this. It's a thing. like it works But it's just not we were doing. L we were really approaching this as the campaign success will dictate as to whether the show could be made and how good it can be Okay, but not everybody knows what what this is all about. So get us back to the basics Sorry So desesign in California is going to be a podcast where we will be telling the story of Apple's history I am pleased to have Jason Snells my host. You know Jason has been reporting about Apple for thirty years of the company's fifty years across the various magazines and outlets that he's worked for. And I have been a lover and enthusiast of Apple I don't know, twenty five years of my life like half of the company and I've been following them as a fan and someone who loves the products and then for the last, you know ten, fifteen years have been talking about them every wee podcasts just like this one. When Apple turned fifty at the beginning of April, Jason and I produced a special episode of Upgrade, which is the podcast that we do every week here in relelay where we talk about what Apple's up to, you know it we talk about news, product reviews, and stuff But we did an episode of Upgrade, which was essentially a version of what design in California will be So it was a very well researched and scripted to a degree, like Jason went through wrote a script that we would go through. and it was after him reading a bunch of books and reading a bunch of articles to talk about the origin of Apple, kind of how the Steves met and how they came to found this company, the company that then turned fifty Um We thought it would be a twenty thirty minute segment on that episode of Ugrade. We did it for a hundred minutes because once we got into it, we were cooking and just having a great time talking about you know, Jason would talk about the research and talk about the things he'd learned, to tell the story, and I'm jumping in and asking questions. and we just had so much fun. Jason and I love a podcast called The Rest Is History. which is essentially taking things from all world history and telling them in an engaging and entertaining way It's the most fun I've ever had consuming any kind of history in my life Basically what we did with this episode of upgrade was tellell their story, the story of Apple's origin in a kind of restess history style. After we did this, with so much great feedback, we were convinced that this was a show that we wanted to produce And so we set about working out how we could do it. Starter felt like the right method for us. We wanted to know people wanted this show and essentially we're asking people to kind of free bu a relay membership. So when the show launches in a few months from now because we've met our funding goal, there will be an ad supported weekly version of the show that comes out But if you back to Kickstarter and become a member that way, You will get no ads in the show. and every time we do a new topic, which you think will be about every month and then we'll have episodes rolling out weekly, as a member, you get all of the episodes at once. So instead of waiting every week for each thirty to forty five minute episode, you get them all at once and so you can listen to it at your own This is exactly what the rest of history does for their membership and it's great because they' drop like six episodes about World War O, and I've listened to them by the end of the week. I don't have to wait for six weeks to get every single one of them. So that's what we're doing with design in California. We're gonna tell the stories non chronologically. So we're gonna to be jumping all over Apple's history and telling stories that are exciting, interesting and timely as well. Like we want to tell iPhone stories at iPhone time, WWDC stories at WWDC time. And going backwards and forwards, we're going to be bringing in guests, like subject matter experts for certain topics We're really excited about it. The campaign is running right now at desesign.Fm. We have blown past our funding goal We with have a bunch of stretch goals that we're going to be sharing throughout the campaign. So the show is going to be happening. And if you do want an idea for it, every Thursday in June, we're publishing an extra episode of upgrade, which is an episode of desesign in California be telling the story of how Apple goes from Apple one to the Apple two. So you will get to hear what the podcast will sound like when it launches later. So it will launch for everyone. If you don't want to back the Kickarta campaign or you're unable to and you like the idea of the show, Designing California will be a regular relay show that will be available for everyone Um And then there will also be the membership version that Kickstarterbackers will get. So the only members get the episodes in June. No, everyone. So that's everyone's getting those. It will be a second episode of upgrade. Gaa for the whole month. So we publish upgrade on Mondays, theseese bonus episodes will come out, spepecial episodes will come out on Thursdays, they'll be available for everyone. so you can get a taste for what the show is going to be like maybe before you backack it That's awesome. Yeah, I was got in there and supported on day one and you had already blown past the goal by the time I even saw the web page And now this is like the third day maybe. Second day. Yeah. No, second day.' when we're recording this, it's been twenty five hours. We've raised over one hundred thousand dollars when we're recording. We met our funding go in two hours. I will say this When we were going into this project, it felt like one of the bigger risks of my career becausecause like youre kind of really putting yourself out there. And I feel like now this is one of the greatest achievements of my career that we've done this. I'm so pleased and excited and humbled that people are supporting it this way. Well when you're doing a kickstarter like this where if it doesn't reach the goal, it won't happen Everyone like you put yourself at risk for a public failure Absolutely. If you don't hit that goal, yes which is why I have been like hesitant to do kickstart the campaigns for projects in the past because I'm scared at the failure aspect, right? Like you because you are failing hard Like if you fail to kickstart the campaign, you are failing big time in public, you know? And listeners have show up for us. So I'm I'm so thrilled because I'm so excited about this project and that we're also getting to do it the way we want, which is a weekly show, essentially. where we are thrilled. Jason and I have we're building a really big notion database of all the topics that we want to do. We have years of content planned that we could do, like just years of content that we would like to do. So we're really, really pumped for this show I know it's early, but have you guys thought about I mean, you said subject matter experts, but maybe interviews with former Apple, maybe current Ale? Hopefully. L there is We want to do interviews as part of the show. and We thinkink We definitely you know, there's a of authors and people that have written books, but we would absolutely love to have whoever would like to come and tell their story on design in California. That door is open. If any former executives maybe who are involved in musicals right now would like to come on the show, you know, we'll have them That is what we're saying even go back to the original team like Susan Kare and some of those. I feel like that would be fantastic. We are hoping that the kind of the success of this show and the pedigree that we bring especially that Jason brings may kind of open us up to some some avenues here Like I think we're also hoping, you know, maybe there are people and I expect maybe a lot of you know, the MacPal users audience who They're not necessarily interested in a show like Ugrade. They don't need the news or they don't need that kind of they don't want that kind of subject. but they would love to hear people talk about Apple's history. And so we're hoping that this is why we wanted to do this as its own show as well and not make it a part of upgrade. This is like a fresh thing that Jason and I are doing for A similar audience, but hopefully a new one as well Alm also I'm also A bit envious because this is also going to be evergreen And a lot of us in the tech sphere, you know, there's a lot of Mac Power user episodes that are evergreen talking about apps or how you use your productivity system, but there's still an element of, you know, ten years from now, the tools are going to be very different. But when you're talking about Apple history and doing that It'll be a podcast that will be eververgreen. So thirty years from now. if someone wants to listen to all of it, will still be just as relevant. It'll still be fun to listen to. Yeah I'm curious being a new show I know how I think and even just launching a or a solo show recently Video versus audio. It sounds like this was an audio only podcast. Did you guys talk about that at all? Dcision? I don't look. It's not Necessarily audio only. Okay. Now we do have some complexities. So we produce upgrade as video We do not do as good a job as you guys do with MacP users, but there is a video version of upgrade, but it is essentially just The Riverside Call, which is cut up, but we're not putting a lot of graphics and stuff like that in the show And there is a different editing process for both. We have a video editor who makes the video show, we have an audio editor who makes the audio show. So we can't take advantage of some of the new things like the HLS stuff and the Spotify stuff for switching between the two because they're cut differently That is a particular issue for design in California So for the episodes that we've done so far, the test episodes We have had our wonderful audio editor Jim Messendorf for it but it's a show. Jim has done a great cut of them But then I've gone in and I would say tweak them to I have tweaked those episodes like you wouldn't believe. Like I've made hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cuts to them. because's not a twe' Yeah, there's not hundredundreds of tweaks is not tweaking anymore. tweaking. I've gone in and really, really, really edited them to be the best they could be because it's not just Fixes I'm making a lot of content edits. And I doing that as the show begins because I'm trying to learn the show, like learn how it should sound and learn how it should feel. I actually recommend this to anybody that starts a podcast You should edit the podcast yourself to begin because you will learn so much about what your show should be by being the person who has to fix the things that you want fixed. Like you will absolutely learn so much. You don't have to edit it forever But you sh to begin so for now The audio version designed in California has hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of more cuts than the video version We don't know yet how we're going to de do with that, but these episodes that we're doing that we' go in upgrade feed There will be a video version of them It will be cut different to the audio version. and that is just the thing we will deal with But there there's something to be said that a video version of this show could be really interesting. It could add a lot to the show. We don't know how to deal with it yet, but we We do believe there is there is a video opportunity here, but we will as we as I am, it will be audio first, but they're Hopefully will be a video component to the show in the future. I got a vision for you, Mike. J just close your eyes see Okay, a card table Right? with a Mac on it, two microphones. Yeah in the driveway of the job's house. Oh Now look, you're saying. There are some stretch goals. And you know, we we would like to do some episodes of the show or some fun video content like me and Jason in certain places around the world. Like there's some stuff that we can do with this show because there are physical locations that are meaningful and it would be fun to work out what that might look like I'll mention to the Verge cast or excuse me version history from the Verge. I listened to their episode about the Western Bell nine hundred. It was like eighteenT, you know, old school phone. And it was awesome podcast. It was again, much like we're talking about here history and all this stuff. But they had a segment in the middle of the episode where someone went to like a museum and had this guy from New York with a heavy accent, which I loved talk all about the inner workings of this mechanical phone And it was really cool because I only listened to the audio version and that was very compelling. And then later I went and watched that same clip on YouTube because then I could see everything they were talking about. And so I almost, you know, you could almost do a hybrid thing where you know, there is audio first with a video and maybe segments that are or supplemental videos that go alongside the show. There's a this show definitely has differentere content opportunities That's what I'm excited to explore. Like on upgrade me and Jason, we love to kind of push stuff and you know we one of our trademark things now is the summer of fun because there is a period of time between June and September where there's no news. Nothing's happening And so we had to kind of create episodes that we do that are just fun episodes. And so you know, these are the kinds of things that over the ten, eleven, twelve years maybe that me Jason have been producing upgrade now We've kind of we've worked out our rhythm for the fun things we can do and how we can mix the show up And I'm looking forward to working at what they will be for Design in California. And I do think there is an opportunity for much more video to go alongside the audio podcast One of the things I like about this show is the format itself. P Power Uers is a very prep heavy show. We spend a lot of time figuring it out And all you guys that do these news shows always like, you know, I always I'm a little jealous because you have a list of items, you show up, you talk for a while. you got a pod. Now, I'm just stking right right? because upgrade takes me one to two hours of prep episode every Monday. Like it's not none. Yeah No, I agree. I agree. but now you are you're like you're having your hold my beer moment because you You guys are going really hard at this one. Yes. Now. I would say that this is mostly on Jason So like Jason will be writing the material. and Trying to communicate this is complicated. There is essentially a script for this show, but it is not a scripted show So like Jason writes a script and that puts the information in his head And we're kind of referring to things that are in the script But he's not just sitting there and reading a Google Doc to you, right? Like we're still having conversation. but he's telling the story But yes, this is this is the majority of work for the show because We care about it being You know, what I would love us to make is like the ultimate telling of Apple's history. That's what I would like this show to be over its history And in the Because of that, we're pulling from sources and magazines, podcasts, oral histories, interviews, everything we possibly can And you know, like in the episodes about the Apple two that are going out in June There's some Some things in that show in some of these episodes that are Like Jason found some details that he was able to try and do some research on And we think there's some information in show that hasn't really been spoken about and this is the thing that I'm finding to be the most exciting about this project is I'm learning stuff that I just didn't know or there are Assumptions that I had made that people just talk about exactly the way that things went down, but Jason calls it like the flattening of history. Like over time it was just like, oh, there's this thing that happened and we all just kind of assumed that was how it went But the more we're able to kind of tease out and cross reference from book to book, from oral history to oral history, we learn it's a little bit more complicated than that, which is great. But yes, that is the Many, many, many hours of work. and that is why we wanted to do this in the way launch a show in the way that we did is because we want to commit to it to do that though. Jason has to commit a lot of time to writing these shows and understanding what he needs to know. but I think it's going to produce something that people are really going to get a kick out of Well, I'd just like to say, I don't know that there's another podcast that has more overlap with Mac Power users than this show Mike Both Stephven and I are already backers. We've got a link in. If you don't want to back it, I get that. just sign up for the show when it comes out. But if you do want to back it, we've got a great link there. you can go. they've got a bunch of different levels. And I honestly can't wait to start listening to the shows I can't think of two people more qualified to do this show and I just can't wait to see what you guys do, man Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, designed.fm, you can go there and that will be linked to the Kickstarter and will probably be linked to the show if you're listening to this many years in the future, which I do know people do with Mac Power users. L you guys are more evergreen than most. but we broke relay. I love that when we came up network. Yeah, this is the story we told many times, but when we brought Mac Power users in every time an episode posted, it took the entire website down because the feed was so large at that point. Man, that was rough We were also happy to have you continue to be. But yeah, design. FM is where you can go. You can back to Kickstart the campaign. find out more about the show and designed in California will launch in a couple of months later on this year for everybody. So we're so excited and we're so grateful. Please check it out. I really think you're going to enjoy it This episode of Mac Power Users is brought to you by ECAM. ECAM Live is the all in one studio built exclusively for Mac. If you're a Mac user who creates any kind of video or podcast, you need eCAM. It's designed specifically to look, feel, and performs like a native pro app should. I've personally used it for years and can attest it is the best. Think broadcast level control with drag and drop simplicity for all your podcast recordings, live streaming, or training videos. 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That's fifteen percent off at ecam dot com slash MacPower users with promo code MPU fifteen Thanks to ECAam for sponsoring this show and all of relay The interesting dichotomy of this episode to me is that we talked about history at the beginning and now we're talking about making history at the second half of the show because we're heading to WWDC, which may be a historic WWDC if they get it right U Mike, what are you thinking heading into Tomorrow's keynote as this episode drops Okay, so well one, I'm going to be there, which I'm very excited about. Can I ask an inside baseball question actually? Yeah. Did that, if you're okay saying, did that invite come like later than the other media invites? Yes. Because when you posted it, I was like, wait a minute That's I wasn't just being coy. No? I was like o, I was just curious.ust curious. Sometimes these things It take a minute. It's a It's not email, I don't know. Yeah you're not going to email to carry your pidion, you know, you never know. I've been on that list in the past where you get a last minute invite. That I've been a first minute invite and a last minute invite. This will be my Second WWBC, the third WWC that I was invited to, one of them, I was stuck in a hotel room COVID so I' so sad for you. I remember listening to that episode with CGP Gray and I was This is part of my law now. L this is part of the law, you know. But then I went to twenty three and had like the best experience ever. So I remember walking by the building and just yelling really loud. Hey, Mike,y come near me for good reason. I'm excited to meet you. I'm excited to meet you in person. Yeah It'll be my second time I cannot wait Um, So WWBC twenty twenty four I was at home for that one and I had a feeling of dread for that to be a BDC. because it was like This is obviously going to be about AI. But how bad is it going be? Like that was I remember having that feeling And Cannot happen and Jason and I record upgrade as soon as we can after the keynote. We like to try and be first But for a bunch of logistical reasons in twenty twenty four We couldn't record until Tuesday And I was so happy because the keynote ended and I felt like I had shell shock. Like I had no idea what I had just seen makes sense to me Some of the things like image playgrounds and stuff like this just feels like a terrible mistake So the fear that I had was born out Going into WWC twenty six, I feel like we're in a similar situation where This one is gonna be AI again. Like I can't think of it being anything else But I am hopeful this time Gning They're going to show me a bunch of features that I'll actually able to use and some of them that I will really enjoy. And so like I have a feeling of like I'm on the team of You got to show me what you can do. But I believe in you. Where in twenty twenty four, I did not believe in it. Well And a big factor is you can believe in Google behind the scenes of whatever Apple is announcing. Yeah This is They are making some decisions that are the right decisions, which are not the decisions you'd necessarily assume they would have made, right? But I think they've gotten to a point where they've realized they need to be in this world And they're too far behind so they have to do some leapfrogging Yeah. And hopefully, Gemini is the leapfrog that they need to be able to get some really good user features. That I don't care. Who has the model? I don't care What I want from Apple is Good user features I believe that they're possible like now without the distraction of we need to build the model, I believe they can do this, but that's what I'm hoping for. And there's also the whole segment of features that were announced two years ago and never shipped. personalized voice assistant And then there's also the bucket of features that they didn't announce, but we've heard rumors of and are being promised now Step one, I'm curious the personalized Si. one, the the presenter who was in the Apple intntelligence portion of the keynote two years ago, Kelsey Peterson, she's now at open AI, which I kind of think is hilarious. So I'm curious you know, it's going to be Craig Federigi, someone else. When I was at WW last year, I was very curious are they going to say anything about this because it's very delayed. And it was just a very quick offhed comment during the keynote, Craig Federga said, we talked about these. they're not ready yet. stay tuned. And like that was it. It was like five seconds Mike like we're going to have a reiteration of the same features from two years ago, are they going it like how can they reframe this just releasing some of the same features I don't think we're going to get all those features. Oh, you don't think so. Okay. No No, I don't think so because We don't have them. so I don't know why we would get them. because I don't think these features were real. but the but the personalized serory still some of them come. Yeah, you know, like like and I guess you mean like the personal contact stuff like a gject knows a bunch of stuff about you Yeah, in theory That should That feels like a feature that they should do Can they? Like I don't know. Like it's a big lift, right? Like let me tell you something, Mike. I built lot of shortcuts in my day Oh have you And technically, like I even have built some where I can search through your mail, text messages, events, notes all in one shortcut And then use an Apple intntelligence action at the end to find something through an asp input and like surface the information you want. I've even created shortcast that search messages faster than the messages app just because the way shortcuts pulls that information is just so much faster. I feel like Personally, I think that stuff is there And they just needed a model that was good enough to parse requests consistently Maybe, I hope so. So I feel like the the thing you're dancing around here is context, right? The models are important. I'm glad they're using the Gemini model question is how much context are they going to free up? Because I've always felt like that's Apple's ace in the hole. If they do it locally on device ussers can safely have it access their calendars and their tasks and their you know, their contacts and all that stuff which can with all that context, any AI, any decent AI and become super useful And that's what they said essentially two years ago, which is why I was, you know, a big fan of it. but course I always say I feel like Charlie Brown in the football. everyvery time I come to give it a kick, they yank it out But But if they give it the context, if they take the Google model and they give it adequate context They are suddenly right in the game because they've got the users and they have the context that openp AI, frankly, doesn't have. So it's really up to them. But whenever you see like there's a good interview with the Federigi in jaws two or three months ago And they go back out of their way to say, look, this is the early days of AI. you know, we're not going to just jump on the bandwagon. We're only going to do useful stuff One fear I have is that they're going to be too stingy on context and make it not as use sal O one of the challenges my coost, Jason was talking about, you know, for personal context to work, it needs to know all the things. So if you ask it, what time is my mom's flight, if that's in an email, it needs to be able to reach into there. If it's from a text message there. And if someone uses a third party app like Olook or Gmail for their email and don't have their email accounts connected to the stock IOS system C it do that? And so there is also a dependency on those third party developers like Microsoft, Google, Gmail. Well they'll have to, hopefully this will be one of the announcements that third party can ply into that. that's what they talked about two years ago too. Wh knows if that'll be open by the fall? I wouldn't necessarily assume that that will come in year one Well, another piece of that question to me is model Cext prrotocol, MCP Everybody is building it If Apple wants this thing to be immediately relevant, they should have MCP built in from day one And then that solves your problem, Stephen. L If you use Gmail and Gmail has an MCP, then the new Si can access it. Apple need to work out if they're going to do something like that, they have to work out a user friendly approach, right for doing these connectors and like that they're good at that kind of stuff and a way of kind of being able to communicate it to people in a way that makes sense. You know, they can just say it's like an extension. You know, there was a Mc Gomam rumor of AI extensions and this could be part of that, right? Like it's not just chatbots, but it's like, hey, Gmail has an AI extension, but actually it's just the MCP. And But when you put that into Siri, now your Gmail is searchable in Siri. Like that's the kind of thing that I could imagine they may do But there's a different version of this where they say, well, we have our own version of MCP and you go through us and we approve it. And then they're going to be irrelevant because people are not going Yeah, I I agree with that. I wonder if that's maybe something that Apple on the twenty twenty four timeline would have done You know, but maybe Ile in the twenty twenty six timeline. I'm not I'm not sure they can get away with it, right? But but we'll have to wait and see. I just I just got another vision If you'll allow, David for your design in California podcast, a multiverse season of the podcast where you talk about what Apple could have What could have happened? could What if their powerered shipped? What would it be charging other devices on? What if Apple Maps wasn't terrible? you know What if they hadn't fired Steve Oh yes. I'm just saying, just throwing that out there. You could take that for free. I love that. I'm writening it down right now. Thank you I'm curious, Mike, Because in addition to like the voice assistant stuff, which remains to be seen, Mark German and Bloomberg has talked a lot about other AI type features, even as much as like in the camera and photos app We have image playgrounds right now. There's even the Chatu Pe extension. But Margermin has said that even in photos, you might be able to reframe the shot or expand the shot which airs more into generating content than just, you know removing a subject, which is generating in a way. How do I'm curious I don't know if I've heard you saying, how do you feel about the more AI photo generation in Apple stuff? The reframing thing I don't understand like the way it's been explained. likeike I just I It's one of these things that you know, Marcus explained. It's like it's like using the spatial photo. technology I just don't get it, right? Like they're going to have to show me that. The expanding and reframing, I think this is great. Like I have a lovely family. I have photos that I want to put on my lock screen to my family Sometimes the image doesn't fit exactly where I want on the locks screen and Apple has like an extend feature on the locks screen kind of pickup, but it's not that good. It that good I would like to be able to just decide how much generative content goes at the top. you know, L if there's a bit of a tree, make a full tree. Like I did this. so I had a photo And my wife, holding my baby And they're standing in front of a tree And it was cut off and it wasn't I needed the photo to be taller, so it would be a good locks screen image. So I used Photoshop's generenator fill just filled in the rest of the tree. Perfect I want Apple to do this. And they Put it in the Photosap, put it in the lock screen thing, makeake it super simple for people to be able to just frame images the way that they want to Like making a fake background, I'm like mostly fine with The idea of like You know, like, you' seeing a lot of stuff now like changing the image. I kind of can't reconcile that Yeahah. Like I I don't know if I ever will. like, you know taking Like if your friend out putting someone in. now you're dressed as superheroes. like That kind of stuff, I'm like, I don't donon't really understand it. I can't get my head around it. You know, I think an example of the reframing during Google IO, there was a clip where they showed off these photos like if you have a photo and maybe you want to make a poster out of that image Maybe you can, you know, reframe the subject so they're smaller, which lets you add text on it. And I could see these kinds of tools playing into like pages where there's lots of templates already, you have Creator Studio now with a bunch of templates, maybe you can do that and they let you reframe the photos for those kinds of things, or like social media, be able to make a bunch of socialedia stuff But there is a difference between that and I feel like, you know, put a hot air balloon in the background of my photo, just apropo of nothing, which they also did during the Google Keynotes, It's like, okay But having those closer and closer to the camera You know Neili at theverse talks about this all the time is like, what is a photo You know, where And I'm also curious maybe let me know what you think if Apple will actually talk about C twoPA or other AI marker type technology. I mean it doesn't feel like they would put it in the keynote, but I could imagine that on one of those Bento slides, right at the end of IOS kind I can't imagine them standing there and talking about particular But I can imagine them saying like we're going to watermark these images and just like move on and then maybe have a bit more detail later. I don't even I don't even know how I feel about the watermarking stuff. It feels like band aid over a self inflicted problem from say like Google of like, Hey, we're going to let you create all these fake images. A, we're going to warmark them. It's like, yeah, Be people need to know like they're building these stores. It's like because people need to know this st's made with AI. It's like, well You could just not offer the new picture, you know, like it's a problem. You don't have to do it. so It's also really funny because with image playgrounds, you can generate images out of nothing, but they're always very cartoony and No matter how many times I tried, it would not generate a body on a person Like there were many times where I would give it an image, image playgrounds, like the app on the iPhone And I would tell it put me on a polar bear in medieval night garb And it just it would refuse to do it. It would put like the polar bear on my shoulder and it would just be from the neck up. Like they're very careful, Stehven and I'm not sure if you're aware the model Fitage playayground is terrible. It reason's no reason. It's because it's not good. It was also funny. like if you'd say make a picture of Stehven holding an iPad mini, it would refuse because of copyright law Yes, like it would It would not put an Apple product in your hand. It was just weird Is is a bad feature that I can't believe we still have Yeah and they're probably going to make it better I don't know how much better they can make it But to Stehven's bigger question, like I think there's just such a spectrum with images. like I had a nineteen thirties photo of my dad and his brother that was overblown and it was a terrible picture But that was the only picture we had of him at that age And AI made it look beautiful. Like there's all the same people, but it fixed that picture Yeah. But then you and to me, that's totally acceptable use of AI Then you had that controversy where if you take a picture of the moon with your phone on certain Android phones, it's not actually the moon you saw that night. It just regenerates the moon To me, that's over the line. and like we all have to figure out where the line is. And well, this is why like And I don't mean this's why I don't really like talking about image generation stuff because It's too messy and everyone has their own personal lines. and I don't think there is Actually I think there's a right and wrong, but I know everybody else thinks there's a right and wrong too.. where I feel like Some of the features that I'm excited about Yeah things like the rumor of like grammar checking tools in the writing tools, that would be so helpful for me because it's something that I'm not very good at. I struggle with this kind of stuff And I love the idea of having the IOS keyboard or the MacOS keyboard as well having these tools built into them that can suggest ways to make My writing better that's not rewriting it. It's just you there is, you know, there are rules that I'm not very good at But it can help me understand them and make suggestions. L that kind of idea is very exciting to me because it's about what I have making it better, not creating something from whole clloth. I like the idea of the AI helping I go ninety percent and it takes me to last ten That's more of the stuff that I want them to do. and I'm hopeful for that. Ify a bet of nickel, I'd say, that's what you're going to get. a lot of user facing features that don't feel like you're working out of a chap bot at all. I think the stretch goal is the type of stuff we were talking about earlier, MCP's context And my pitch, you know Tim if you're listening is that There are so many people onet, I'm teaching this robot course There's so many lawyers, doctors, professionals that want these AI tools, but they can't use them because they're all going out to external servers like Anthropic or Op a eye Apple has all the pieces in their bag to make a local system does the higher end stuff we're talking about. If they made that and they've got frankly, the M five chip is built for it. If they made local models that allowed you to use local context and like really do it right. I feel like they would be like right at the top of the charts of this AI stuff. It's the dream effect, you know, It's the dream. Like if they're able to really make some very, very good local models and also local models that developers can use too It really would be incredible. I don't know if that's this year. but I do have faith in them to produce something like that. But Mike, it's not even the local models, it's the harness. It's the ability to do it all on device with local context and And like It's the question to me is, do they have the vision for it or not And maybe I'm looking at this from a bias standpoint because I've been so in the woods on this stuff, but the u I just feel like they are in the perfect spot to really make a move. and I hope that happens. But I do think regardless, we're going to get the kind of stuff you're talking about, the built in invisible AI stuff. I think that's what they really are This episode of the Mac Power Users is brought to you by Work Brew Deliver the software your team needs securely and at scale for free with the link in the show notes Your developers love HomePrew, but your security team maybe not so much That's because nobody actually knows what's installed, where and by whom Home Brew is already on those Macs. IT just can't see it, and you can't manage what you can't see Work Brew free fixes that Depploy it through any MDM and within minutes you'll see every package and dependency across your fleet So you can standardize onboarding, improve maintainability, and add essential governance with zero disruption And keep your developers moving fast with managed Bw acccess and default packages What I like most about WorkBrew is the console. It's an all in one dashboard for formula, casks, licenses, and taps across all your devices With it, you can see what's happening across your devices Drill down into reports and make changes across your fleet with one click And it gives developers access to the open source tools they need without slowing them down or breaking compliance Start using WorkBrew with their free plan. deepploy to unlimited devices via their hassle free installer. Seamlessly integrated with your MDM for zero touch setup There's no trial, no credit card and no user or device limits Go and check it out at workbrew. com slash free. That's workbrew. com slash free or click the link in the show notes to let them know you heard about it here on the Mac Power users. brew you can have your cake and eat it too. security and flexibility And our thanks to WorkGu for their support of the Mac Power users and all of relay All guys, I'm gonna throw it out there. Is a liquid glass gonna get better tomorrow? Why? Wait, I need to know Mike. where are you on the scale of one, I hate it, five, I love it or ten, I love it Where are you on the MacoS Tahoe like You went right for the jugulular. Yeah, I just I would say foraho, I'm like flat the middle W likeure. I It doesn't bother me It doesn't bother me. Now I feel like I am I'm way higher on the scale for the iPhone. I think that Liquid gllass on the iPhone looks great I enjoy it a lot. I think it's a really nice redesign It is as imperfect as I would imagine a first iteration of a redesign to be. like it's got some rough edges. But I am very happy when an app that I use gets it liquid glass redesign. Like they're still coming in and I'm like, oh, great. L I love this. And I would argue that a lot of third party apps did it better than Apple in some ways. mean that doesn't surprise me though. You know, people like you know like Apple has to make the design everything. As a third party developer, you have Yura. Like you have your app and like I can focus it on this experience. How do I make it work for me The Mac, I feel like They made some tweaks are fine They made some tweaks that I would say a lot of the community thinks are not fine. These things don't bother me as much. I'm less kind of sacred cow with the max don't really think that they like lived up to it like they did on the other platforms. Like I feel like this one it did not get the attention I think if we're going to see any changes the liquid glass, it will be on Macelass. I think they may They may push MacOS into some better directions. That would be my bet. I don't think There will be much noticeable change on the other platforms It's a shame too, because Macest Tahoe introduced so many great features. I mean, shortcuts automations came to the Mac because of Tahoe. Spotlight got massive upgrades, built in clipboard manager, a more customizable control center with multiple pages. And it's a shame because all those features kind of get lost because everyone just can't get past a window dressinges of Macques, which To be fair, like how you use the operating system is one hundred percent what you see And so if that really bothers you, I totally get why. But I'm hoping just a bunch of design tweaks, maybe everybody says this, but a snow leeopard type year from MacOS But on the design side, just fix all little things make it nice to look at and you know, bump up a couple features and I think that wouldd be great And I do think if they if you know, they could focus on saying that they're working on bug fixes and instability. and that's like a code to macOS users that I think would be like everyone would be really excited about that. Like in a way that if you set it for the iPhone, I think people will be a bit like Yeah, but No, unless auto correct. instead of fixing auto correct again, big cheers. evenven though I have no problem with it. I don't I know people hate auto cororrect I don't know why. You think it's gotten worse on the iPhone. Don't feel that way at all. David, how do you feel Autoorrect on the phhone, better worse. I don't notice it as much worse, but to be honest, you dictate everything that You just You're autoc correcting yourself. I rarely type. so Yeah I speak great, so no problem. No problems here. I type all the time. my wife At least once a week, she's like, whyy is this so And they Stepven, I'll ask you, Do you tap type or swipe type Iap type. I don'tipe. I'm a swipe tyyper. Maybe this is a thing.. Maybe swipe typers we're having a great time, but tap typers You're struckggling It I've never swiiped typed in my life. I could Oh, you've missing out, man. No, I was straight a phone user too. I can't beave your tap type in. Sipe type in' the dream I don't know what I don't know what you can convince me to try swiip. Do you like swiping David Yeah, that's the only way I type On the phone. I know how we I didn't believe it. I just threw my m. David, you need to make an episode about swipe typing and it was awesome to do it. Next episode. all swipe type. talk about them. You've talked about eighteen thousand utilities for the keyboard and now you can talk about swiping to type. No Stven. Yeah No. You gotta try it. No It's like magic Like you feel like you're like you're like Dctor Strange or something. You're just like, you're moving stuff around. It's great man. I love swipe typing. I just find it faster than than tap typing. more reliable You don't have You don't more reliable is the issue with the keyboard. that's the aut Swipe typing, it's like vibe typing You're not actually hitting all of the letters that you need. I'm not fllowing for thising in the direction. Propaganda. I'm not falling for this. You're just like it's like Jazz. That's why it's like Jazzs Jazz That's why I love it. That J like please please be offended by that comment. It is not like Jazz. It is. Yeah I'm with Mike. I mean, Stehven you're a classical trumpet play I'm at Jazz saxophone is a nice swipe type He likes rules. L M man likes rules. This is like swipe tyypon That's the way to go. I'm going to after all afternoon, I'm going to recover from He's only going to type on his keyboard exactly like Beethoven thought he should I cannot okay anyway. I don't even know where to go next. Okay, swipe typing, I guess is great What do you I guess? I just downloaded like one of the whispper things so I can start dictating and now you' telling me to swipe around. And well there's two different devices, but no, I dictate primarily on my phone, but if I'm going to going to type on my phone, I swipe. I can't believe this. All right, let's talk about iPad. My Oh. iPad. Last year we got Windowing And then we got two like backtracks because I was twenty six. two and. three it brought back slidever and then it brought back split view. And now we have quite an amalgamation of ways to window things on it Yeah. I feel like I'm almost like Apple PRs broken into the conversation, Stephen. I wouldn't call them backtracks. Ecuse me. Yeah They were I They were additions because they actually they didn't go back on the windowing Like you could still do all of the stuff. They totally went back on Slide overver. Slide overver is a total backtp Yeah, but it's not like they There was something that they took away to bring Slidover back. You know what I mean? I'm being gasled so much in this podcast. No I would you Stepven. I meet you on this. than you, David. Thank you D Okay, I was they acquiescesced. You already got your invvice you already got your invite for D I genuinely believe it though. likeike a backtrack would have been if they would have been like I like backtracking is like what they did to the first windowing system, right Where did I like? What slideoldwn. iPadOS twenty six d. zero. there was zero slide over All right, they backtacked and they brought a lot of back. Thank you. I we're notgue. But I love the windowing system How do you actually And I use it in combination with Stage Manager because I'm a sicko and it works great on the iPad. Like the windowing and Stage Manager works really well together because you can have these little pairs of apps. The reason I love to you put up iPad is I just don't think there's going to be anything like anything. get some of the stuff that the iPhone gets, which should be a lot. I hope it gets that Sotlight gets some advancement that it gets a bit more Mac like because the UI's essentially the same. so and the interaction methods the same? Although, you know, apparently there's going to be a new spotlight kind of Siri combo on the iPhone so maybe it will inherit some of that too. but , I don't iPad OS, Vision OS, TV OS I don't know, man. I don't think we're going to hear much about them. I have a pie in the sky hope for iPad I was I actually used the universal clipboard built in a MacS now because it's super fast and I've trained myself to do Cand space four and just go directly to the clipboard manager And I do Cand space two for file search, all of that And I was on my iPad with the magic keyboard the other day and just reflexively Did Cand space four Hoping to bring up theiversal clipard or the yes, clipboard history to obviously no avail I am so hoping that they bring the spotlight that's on the Mac to iPad and let it do clipboard history. S then And something iPad has never hadesome. The ideal would be an API. so third party apps can also make great clipboard managers, but I feel like that's less of a chance. some kind of clipboard history and I would be happy You said universal, Stephven, and I hope that maybe if they're going to do this, they actually make like a shared clipboard history between devices.. I would love that because I use The clipboard sharing of continuity all the time. All L I'm posting something on my iPhone and I'm grabbing the link from the Macnness in front of me.. And so it would be amazing to get, you know on the devices that have keyboards attached to them notot just the history, but the history across devices. that would be pretty cool I mean I think amazing is the wrong word. I think it's expected You know, in twenty twenty six that There that is a, you know, apple advertises the fact that these things interact with each other in a clipboard needs to historyory. I feel like last year, they probably just ran out of time. I'd be surprised honestly, Steven if you don't get your wish Yeah, I think they pull a lot of work into the iPad last year. right? Like they really did. likeike they they were like, you know what? We're going it was like two years ago, we redesigned the operating system for Windowing. We're going to do it all over again. And it's clearly a different foundation because it actually works the way that we want it to. Like they they obviously threw everything away and started again And they ended up with a system that works exactly how it should work and should have worked a long time ago, but we're all very grateful to have it generically or across the board, I feel like the announcements are going to be lack luster on anything but Apple intelligence. I think that We're going to get minimal improvements across the board I feel like on the Mac, the liquid glass is going to get turned from eleven down to like eight And and the obvious problems, like you can't click on the corner of a window to resize it, those are going to get fixed, you know? Yeah I feel like they are probably everything they can to get the AI question right because if they below that, their stocks going to take a big dump Mh h. This episode of Mac Power Users is brought to you by NetsSueet. 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The link is in the show notes, netswueite d. com slash mpU Our thanks to NetsSuite for their support of this show and all of relay So every once in a while Apple will launch a new first party app. during Dp We got a dedicated passwords app recently, the journal app, Apple invvites, which people have varying opinions about, but it's actually a really great countdown widget in case you're wonder Are you either of you hoping for any new standalone apps? and I will start because I have three kids. And I use sccreen timeime to the max. I have used the pro Max. I've used every feature of sccreenime So when they moved screen timee requests into like group messages, things got very messy there. I don't know, I don't think you're dealing with this kind of stuff yet, Mike with your I know I will be though. but you will be. I still have my very first YouTube videos were all about screen timee controls. They're from six years ago, and they still get comments because people still don't know how to figure it out. And funnily enough, Six years ago, the process for all the screen timee stuff is basically exactly the same which is not great on Apple's Park that it hasn't changed. But I'm actually hoping for a standalone screen time app one where notifications can then be managed like it's a standalone app All the requests can be in one place and a ton of those settings can now be in one app rather than buried in settings, which is The settings is just, you know, a ton of stuff now, like AirPod settings, it was rumored that's going to be, you, broken out or done differently because it's so complicated. So I'm hoping for a dedicated screen timee app. It's probably not going to happen. but I just want to put it out there in the world. What about eer? L can' ide doa. I have a request for an app and this one's rumored is We need a Siri app. you know, we need a chat bot interface for Siri. if they're going to really make it go into this next kind of phase of compute It needs to be like clawed and open AI and needs to have the harness and everything I was preaching about earlier and that needs an app And a history, your conversation history that's never been there for the voice assistant Mike, what about you? you want any apps I don't have an app specifically, but I have a request that I would be very excited about. So One of the other things that I do is I work with Underscore David Smith and Stehven at cross forward the makers of Widget Smith and Bedamometer pllus plus I want new widget sizes Yes. like the size of one or two app icons. Yes. That's what I want. if they did that, I would be overjoyed because what I would love is some widgets that allow for just more information, you know, like little tickers of information that you could fit in a kind of like a two i conizize widget or a widget that is just the size of an app icon, which then could essentially become like a live update and app icon. You know, like that you could have information popping up. L like I love the time tracking app timery. And I would love it if the icon for timimer could just change to a stop button when there's a timer running, so I don't need to have the widget on my home screen to be able to do that Not everything needs to have a widget, notot every app needs to has a widget on your home screen. But a lot of apps would benefit from the icons being somewhat informational at certain points, you know, like they could be showing you something's going on, it could be adapting, live updating, evenven like a calendar app being able to show you the date all the time, you know, like that kind of stuff. So I would love them to get a bit I would say fun when it comes to kind of combining widgets and app icons. Yeah, I agree. I'm going to any other wish list items, I'm going to list a couple for me because Apple Home, which we've talked a lot about in recent episodes of Mac Power users I feel like it's been neglected in recent years, I'll be honest at DubWub. And I amm hoping for homeome Kit secure video up to four K resolution Home kit camera pan and tilt controls in the homeome app, which is still not there I would love a better interface for downloading homekit seecure video recordings, maybe a web page on iCloud. com where you can see all your cameras, download clips in bulk. because maybe you're trying to find whoever package swiped you or whatever. I would love a better interface for all of that All the Apple home things that come with improvements I'm hoping for. And I know David, are you holding out for third party watch faces? You You know, I'm not even gonna to ask for it anymore. It's just like I don't think that's gonna to happen. But on your point of home, I've been buying more Apple homeome stuff. As you know, I've been trying to like stick with Apple's home And there is a lot of room for improvement there. I mean, it's good, but it could be so much better and I'll agree with you. Yeah you make What I would really love them to do is fix TVOS And when I mean fix it I want Netflix and TV in the TV app, rightight? Yeah That's not on Apple. Well, it's not an apple. I think that Netflix would be willing to do this if the terms that Apple offered them to their liking. And so I I think Apple could do a better job of making its TV platform better if it gave If it was more they were more willing to negotiate That's I know it's kind of it's, you know, this is a thing they could announce an event, but it's not really anything to do with it being a developer conference. But I want them to find ways to make the TVO app the TV app on all platforms Ething, like absolutely everything. That's the dream. And I have like You know, nine tenths of the services that I use are in the TV app not all of them So then I can't think about it all the time as the place that I can get all my TV. So I That would make me so happy if they could do that There was even a brief moment. I don't know if it was a beta or if Netflix changed something. It was a mistake? It was twenty four hours. It for twenty four hours.. Here's the thing. Here's the thing about this. I have a big conspiracy theory about this. Oh, yes, right here You can't accidentally do this. You know accidentally have all of your content indexed in the TV app. Someone had to build that Absolutely. Now I believe Yeah Netflix are like Any day you want We'll just turn it on. Let us know Just you just let us know And I think that there is like a and I believe that Apple and Netflix are building a working relationship. We see that of F one, right where like they were able to rebroadcast drive to survive. The Canadian Grand Prix was on Netflix.. I think these two companies are trying to like Get to know each other a little better, you know? if Apple will also no Netflix app on the Apple Vision Pro. St Another here's a bit of information. There was one There was one. didn't ship Wh there. Okay. now I know this to be true. Netflix made a vision proro app. make it out that it didn't Make it out the door for any reason other than Netflix decided No not to I mean, YouTube got there eventually, took them almost Tw years. so I guess I'm holding out hope still, but And all it took was a German ideal You know there are dials between Netflix and Apple that can be turned. I believe genuinely like I think Netflix built all of the integration for the TV app and it just takes the right deal than put it lie for everyone I also want to throw out goingoing back full circle Apple intelligence stuff When it comes to TVOS, I played around with the Google streamer box, which has Gemini built in now And it's actually really robust what you can ask it. You know, you can say You know, give me movie recommendations for the family based on my viewing history or you can just give it a bunch of stuff And it has these new like pages that come up with the suggestions. and you can even do things like tell me about a black hole, which I don't know why that's the example like every AI thing uses, but like tell me about a blackole. And like just on your TV, it'll just like give you video suggestions from YouTube plus it'll give you a description about a black hole. So I'm hoping that the Voice Asistant and Apple intelligence comes to the Apple TV, which I don't think How would they do that Same same way it is now I mean, series on there. and just be that hard, I don't think Yeah I mean, if it could especially with a new Apple TV than any one that has I think it would need a new Apple TV because I think What's It depends how much how much stuff is local and how much stuff isn't because I think local it can't handle it. I don't think it's got what what needs to hold some of those models. But I guess it could just, I mean it's a TV. It's always connected to the internet, right? L You're not taking it out into your pocket. It's got the A fifteen Bionic chip What was the chip in the iPhone fifteen pro? It was the A seventeen Yeah. So they need to go at least two generations newer for Apple intelligence, but we're long overdue and all the rumors that Mark German has said like The new home pods, the new Apple TV's, the home pod or the screen that's been rumored for seven years, that it's all waiting for this new voice system. The Apple TV may fall pray to they have products products that they would like to put chips and ram into That's not the Apple TV. I mean, I hope they update it, but like I feel like it's very hard right now to predict. where resources can be spent That's true But new yeah, we'll see I think you know, overall, since we're on Apple intelligence again, my big wish for tomorrow for this keynote is that Apple's willing to take some risks with Apple intelligence and not just do the safe bets but actually really stretched. Like the way Google has, the way a lot of these companies are And frankly, the way a lot of users watch and be willing to, you know to stick their neck out a little bit with Apple intntelligence and take advantage of this great platform they have I just hope they do that. I hope they don't just take the safe route I also think, you know, Mike, you're talking about relationship with Netflix. I do think if Apple can play nice with more brands, more companies They can make a lot of great experiences. And one of the other rumors was in the Apple Intelligence setettings screen, Right now, you can log into your open AI account for the ChaditPT plus. I'm hoping that we might see Claude in there. We might see Cle. you absolutely well. I think they're all going to be in there. think're going to be in because Google obviously is right? Like No I know that I wasing if it's going to beer or if it's just going to be the underlying Apple intelligence model. Gemini is definitely, you know, it's the underlying thing that talk about it. but I can't imagine a scenario where that relationship will not also result in Gemini being a top level AI provider as well as the low level And I think a At that point I mean, what AI company is not going to want to at least say like we'll give this a go. No, I know open AI seems to be feel like it just didn't do for them what they wanted. I mean, it's the iPhone. Like if you've got the chance to be embedded into the iPhone You're going to take it. So I think if they open that up, I expect we see all the frontier labs in the Okay Well should we talk so maybe about hardware wants and more power users, David Yeah, let's do that. Maybe if we'll see any other new hardware because we do get this sometimes at WW. So we're going to go record more power users If you become a member and support the show, you get an ad free version, plus more power users, and our monthly bonus episodes, which we have a wild third monthly bonus episode coming up where David absolutely surprised me about something. The topic changed right as we hit record because of what he revealed Any were welcome. you're welcome. M. So that bonus episode iss coming out soon so you get all of that. Thanks to our sponsors this week, ECAM, NetsSueite and Work Brew. and we'll see you next week