Future Outlook and Upgrade Cycles

It's time for MacBreak week. And Christina are here Jason Snell is still in Coopertino. Mike a Sargent joins us as we talk about everything Apple announced to WWDC. Some say the keynote was mad. Others are very excited. What do you think? We'll find out what our panelists think next . Podcasts you love from people you trust . This is Twitter This is MacBreak Weekly, episode one thousand twenty eight recorded Tuesday june ninth, twenty twenty six , the Finder Guy of Your Choosing . It's time for MacBreak Weekly. The show we covered the latest news from Apple and there is some new s . Christina Warren is here. She's back from Bill. Did you have a good time? I did. I had a great time. There was actually a lot of cool stuff at Build. There was there really was that we can, I think, talk about and maybe in context of how now we've seen all the major, you know, tech developer things we can kind of compare. But yeah, build was a lot of fun. They seven new models, Microsoft announced, AI models. Yeah , which is quite a few. They also announced their new agentic AI AI was definitely on the table at Build and I hope you get one of these. You have a DJX spark, don't you? Oh, no. No, I have added the framework. Yeah, no, I want that RTX . They're not going to give me one, but I would definitely value employee. I mean, look , I'm sure that the list of people who want that is very long and I'm sure that I'm not on it. But price too. I was gonna say, I don't want to think about how much the one hundred twenty eight gig version of that will cost , but I want one. And so if anybody is listening to the MacBreak Weekly podcast from Microsoft, please please let it out . They listen to see what the competition's up to. That's Annie Inako who is now competing with every website in the world is new co. com . Well, see, this is where I've got my marketing strategy. If I'm making up all the facts as I go along, I'm going to be the only source of that information . If I'm just if I'm well, I'm saying if I like I said, if I just if I just report on what's going on at WWBC, okay, factual stuff. Okay, everybody knows what the name of Siri AI is, everybody knows the relationship with Gemini models. But if I were to say that basically they're moving the entire operation to Canada and they're going to be making chocolate chip cookies. Okay . That would be a scoop. I'm the only person who has that information. And I feel as though with some Lesio wizardry , I think that we can turn this into at least an eight hundred dollars a year industry. All you have to do is add people with knowledge of the situation . That's all you have to add. And a shaky grip on reality. Just a Jason is still in Coopertino. He decided to stay over . So Mr. Snell is not here tonight, but Mr Micah Sergeant is Hey Micah. Hello Leo. Hello everyone. Micah joined me yesterday ten AM Pacific one PM Eastern for an hour and twenty minutes of excitement with the WW C keynote and that is our topic of the show today . Now, I think most people who watch this show would probably know what happened yesterday . What you would think? I'm going to go through it bit by bit, but what do you think, Micah? Just now that we have some time to reflect, we're out of the reality distortion field, what do you think the big announcement of yesterday was it the slider propacity in liquid glass was added? I think that this is the thing, Leo. So much of what ends up getting dispersed into the ecosystem is based on the sort of memeability of the moment . And by that, I just mean the little distilled moments . And a lot of this wasn't able to be distilled down into a small thing , but what you're talking about, that reference there about a slider that changes how translucent liquid glass is , that is something that people can clip and share and go finally they're listening to us. So yeah, I think in some ways if we're looking at the rate at which I saw references and excitement about this YouTube shorts on that. Yeah, exactly. Then yeah, that's the big news. But I think for Apple , they probably felt that their big news was what came later in the show, which is why they got the stuff out of the way at first with security and safety and design updates. Andy, I'm sure you were watching with interest. Was there anything that you thought was particularly YouTubeable? There are a lot of mostly broad things. I will say that I will highlight since we're talking about liquid glass , again, Apple does not need to retract, they don't need to apologize . However, there was a there was something that was so masterfully worded that I actually like wrote it down word for word. This is as close as Apple will ever get to saying yeah, that was a pretty big mistake and we're sorry when they're talking in the design section where they're talking about liquid glass. We take a here's what we do. We take a bold leap forward, then continue to innovate. Part of it is listening to users and developers and our team really appreciates your feedback . Yeah Like I thought I thought they made they made some some nice steps and some of them like explicitly like address ing every single blog post that came along says, yeah, but we're gonna make sure that the round fixing rounded corners like stood out to me. It's like, wow. Yeah, but how did that happen in the first place? Because they were all different. Yeah, yeah. The tool the toolbar across the tops of apps now going to be more uniform. We're going to try to make sure that when we put something on top of other interface, we don't make it impossible for you to read what's supposed to be behind it. Like all these things wouldn't say they didn't say, well, we screwed up that, but we fix it, we fixed it, we fix it. But they really wanted to make sure that they were as contrite as they could possibly be without inviting a class action suit by saying, yeah, we shipped something that we're really not proud of . And we had to we have to put out this basically apology tour of releases. They actually sent us to the design studio. They said Stacy's now design studio to make all those apologies, but they didn't apologize. They just said, We're going to make this they didn't have to. There was overreaction. But again, I like the fact that they acknowledge that no, this wasn't a gosh , I was braced for the phrase we often hear, which is PR customers love the new butterfly keyboard with beautiful travel. And we're happy to say we've now made it even better. They just basically said, yeah, we're listening to your feedback. We're going to iterate and innovate. And by the way, here's some specific things that you don't have to ask us about anymore because we fixed it. So Christina, what did you see is, I mean, it's ridiculous for me to say pick one thing, but just it's fun to start with dessert. So we're going to start with dessert . Yeah, no, I mean , but I think honestly talking about a little bit about kind of like the retraction of sorts of of liquid glass was actually really interesting to see. I mean, the big headline thing obviously was all the SIA stuff. Like that was that was going to be the big thing. But I was actually very happy to see them do a retraction of source, even though they didn't do a full apology for liquid glass. Someone in the chat mentioned that, you know, Porp Syracusa is stuck on like the Tahoe UI forever on as Mac Pro. And I will say like that , they mentioned it in the state of the Union, but it didn't get any other mentions from what I could tell, but kind of the fact that like the Intel Macs are now officially dead. Like that makes me sad a little bit. I do feel I'm going to be honest. I feel like especially the fact that they're supporting the latest version of IOS going all the way back to the iPhone eleven. I'm like, you know what, you could have given us another year for the Intel Max. Like I was shocked when I watched Steam the other day and it said, Don't, this isn't going to keep running next time you better get an updated version. I mean, you'd think they would have updated Steam right now. Yeah, I mean I think Steam has been kind of in a weird spot where there's not a whole lot of reason for Steam to want to work with Apple and and Apple has not really done a lot to make it clear they want to work for Steam. Like it seems like Apple still lives in this universe where they think that everybody who has a Mac buys games from the Mac app store, which is just not reality . But yeah, I mean that it will be interesting to see like kind of like because I still have an Intel IMAC that is still very serviceable and I don't know if I'm going to put Linux on it or if I am going to upgrade it to Tahoe or what's natural for Linux is what it is . Well y,es and, but here's the problem. Those T two chips are difficult for a Linux to deal with a little bit. So there are some problems there, but I'm sure people will come up with solutions. But I will say this, this was not part of the keynote, but I was jealous of this because I saw all over social media. People who were there in person got the little Finder guy pins. Yeah . That's Jane Abbers. The new finder guy. I want that. The first time I'll do twelve years, I'm unhappy that I get to grow an apple. Don't worry. It's probably one hundred and thirty dollars on eBay. Anybody that's true that it is, and I will not be I will not be buying that. If someone wants to send me ones, I will pay like, no, not one hundred thir andty. I pa likeid twenty , but like I'll do twenty one. Oh no biting no bidding again. No five kids. I'll do fifty. Okay, I'm not pulling out finder. Okay. sixty seven. I'll wait for the pin to arrive on Thingoverse and then do their But there you go. Yeah that was that was a really good point that you made Christine. This is this is going to be an interesting year like on the one hand Apple very, very correctly boasted about how this operating system will work all the way back to basically they're not if your if your current phone uses can run IOS twenty six, it will be able to run IOS twenty seven. You're not being orphaned that way . But and yet , of course , intel users are being left behind. Again, arguably they've been have they've had these machines for a long time. It's not as though they're going to stop working. However , there are also there's a phrase that popped up in the keynote two or three times that Google was also using during the IO keynote. That horrible phrase on our most of most on our most technologically advanced hardware was like, oh god that means the phone that I bought last year is not going to. It's like Apple intelligence will most of Apple intelligence will work, but when you talk about Siri AI, this stuff we're going to be talking about next, the stuff that they spent the entire keynote talking about sorry if you've got an M one or an M two . It's I think the Macs are like M three or better. I think the iPads are M one four or better. Right. And a minimum of twelve gigabytes of RAM like on all these devices. So there are a lot of people that are going again, not necessarily going to be left behind. This is not it's not as though Iowa twenty seven won't run. It's not as though twenty eight, twenty nine, thirty won't run, but again, Apple didn't spend Apple spent the most compact hiccups saying, Oh, by the way, we've done a million different tiny little improvements and increases of features . Basically so much new stuff and there's like a screenshot where they have to zoom out to fit all the text in there and I haven't even gotten down to this is I screenshot it so I can give it to Gemini or something and say please turn this into a list that I can actually read. But that's and that's the stuff that we're all going to talk we're all going to be available to us, but that's not the stuff that Apple wanted to show off. Apple wanted to show off. The future of Apple is all the stuff that unless you have a machine that's pretty new . We were looking forward to you enjoying these like in two years time when you finally spill a pepsi onto the keyboard. Here's this M two MacBook yeah. Here's the screen they put up. This is for I think from ninety five Mac. You really good luck reading 's like the end of the contract that Willy Walk and the kids signed before they gave the tour. That's I do see something that says updated liquid glass in there and they and David Schob's also pointing out and I think this is a this is a big one . That Apple finally retracted or this was on the platform study of the Union, I think, the menu icons or at least gave you a little bit more flexibility on how your menu icons appear. So that's that was another complaint a lot of people . Well, and that's the blogger. That's not really what we care about at this point, right? Or no? I mean, I don't think so. Look, I am happy about detail changes that they details , right? And like the fact that they listen to the corner radius, which I don't actually think is a minor thing. The fact they said that it's smaller now actually makes me happy. I'm like, oh, I might actually be able to use my Mac and now have it in more space mode. Yay . And the fact that they brought color back to the sidebars, like, no, the details matter. And I even if it wasn't a full retrenchment, the fact that they acknowledged there were usability issues the first go around, which yes, there were Scads to see, and hopefully that will, you know, pay off better as we go into the crux of what they discussed. I think there was an unusual amount of attention. I think there was because of Apple's failure to WWDCs ago. By the way, here's the little Finder guy pin. I could not find this on eBay, but Jammer B had a picture of it. We have we have to start a betting pool on if they name them and if they name them, what is they going to name? I hope they hope they let him be like don't name him at all, let us know like understand little fighter. He's a fighter guy. In our relationship with us just like a relationship with God. We create the little fighter guy that we need in our lives at one given moment. Yes. The Finder Guide of your choice. I'm sorry choosing . I think that Apple open the door to little finder guy and a little finder guy will finally come . Mike and I observe this actually as we're watching as they're starting to roll out more and more about the AI is they better be darn careful not to show anything they cannot produce is another thing that again, it wasn't specifically there was so much subtext here about we are not gonna screw up the way that we did before exactly. Every single demo was, I have a device in my I'm running it and you can see it running on the thing. So again, we're still ably latent too. I mean, it wasn't instant edited that's fine. This is not a mockup. This is actually running. And also the other question which, I didn't actually consider until this morning when I was reviewing things, like I'm not saying that Apple did not make any promise as to when Siri AI features will ship versus I owa's twenty seven. But I assumed that it would be the beta would start at least around the same time. Now I'm trying to figure that's one of those details I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out right now. Did they actually say that when the when the when IOS twenty seven actually ships this fall, some iteration of Siri AI in Beta will also ship, or did they simply basically announce this as something that is a work in progress that will ship on its own time? I think they were unclear on that. There were sorry. I was reading a couple of analysts that were investment analysts who basically said that this is the this is one of the disappointments of why they 're downgrading Apple a little bit because it's great that they show this stuff off, but they're disappointed that they did not show off a firm timetable on Wednesday features are actually going to go. They said it'll be available this fall in Beta. Okay . And that implies in Beta implies not everything, not all. And I think this is the most important thing. My takeaway from yesterday, the most important thing is all look good , but we really can't judge it until we start . Exactly . Yeah. And for instance, even though there was latency in those demos that they were doing and they were holding up a phone, remember, those are pre recorded . And I believe that's sort of the first shot, right? Yeah. And I also believe that some of those were canned demos. And the reason I said that is there was a session later where four of them were on stage and Mike Rockwell repeats the same exact query he did in the video in the in the keynote video. And the tell was he knew ahead of time what the answer was going to be because he said, Oh, I don't have a mic's cooking website. He so there was a little tell in there. And I so again, this is, you know, this is just me being suspicious. Now has anybody been bold enough? Jason Snow said, do not install the developer preview? No. Mike I said, you said you were gonna. Yeah, and I have the problem is that you have to join a waitlist for new series and so I don't I don't have access to that yet. I have access to some of the features . I was particularly, I mean, I do it every year regardless. I always just do a full eye maz ing backup beforehand so that it's fine . But I was particularly okay with doing it this year because of Apple's focus on reliability . I've run into a number of issues and I think that people should be careful , even if it's just frustrations, those start to add up. But I was hoping to get to try literally Siri part , and frankly, that's just not yet possible . We do currently have access to some of the photos changes and a few other things that we can talk about as we get to it. But yeah, as far as New Siri not yet . And Christian says, let's applaud your hat. Yes. I just have your hat. I just know your hat is fantastic. That is a gift hat. There' as git Yes. This is one of my favorite hats because it's just, I don't know, it's perfect color. Anyway, I really like this . So it happens to have the GitHub logo on it. Yes, which is like the best merch, frankly. Like that's the best stuff like when you want to wear it even and you're not even thinking about the brand association. So yeah so the first twenty minutes of the keynote felt like an exercise in delayed gratification like Apple was saying okay you just hold on just, hold on . I start Whened to talk about the improved CPU scheduler , I thought, really? Now that's but that's but but that's a great thing that 's one of those things that says that yes you have an old phone and no , you'll be disappointed later when we when we pull up that card that says that serial yet but then for you I photography saying the things saying that your old phone is going to feel faster. I think they're throwing out numbers that we're going to be proven later on about. Oh, well the scheduler means that things are many things are thirty percent faster, launches going to be faster, things are going to feel snappier. And that's again, that's that's good stuff. Particularly give particularly given how clear that the mission of this keynote was to reverse the damage done to Apple's reputation regarding their path on AI. Well, actually they had we'll get to it, but no one predicted, although it seems it seems silly we didn't in retrospect, that they needed to make a pitch to Australia and the EU and the UK that look, you don't have to impose all these new regulations about age verification and how we how we treat kids on our platform. Here is how thoroughly we plan for that on our own and here new stuff we're doing partly in response to these new laws that you're making. I was really surprised that that was such a long hunk of the keynote. Obviously, obviously at the start, this they're not going to use that as like one more thing as if they do that anymore. But that was it's hard to remember a different keynote recently in which there wasn't such a clear please get off our backs. Please stop honking down our snorkels. There are people who are exploiting kids on mobile platforms, but we are not one of the companies doing the exploiting. We are one of the companies that are protecting kids from being exploited. So trust us , work with us, and don't force us to play chicken with the releases on your in your entire geographical region because you're imposing laws that we don't feel that we can technically comply with. Early on there was the first appearance kind of a little foreshadowing of Gaussian splats with the flyover and maps, which I thought was pretty sweet. Google's been doing something similar, but they showed how the map flyovers now are going to really look pretty darn good . And then speaking of kids, they did bring their VP of Health out to talk about child safety. And I think Apple , I don't know, I'm not an expert on what child controls are on the iPhone because I don't have kids anymore, at least not little ones, but it looked like they really focused on that and worked on that in order really to I think, end, around to circ circumvent or maybe even short circuit governmental regulation in the U. S. state by state, but also in the EU. . Go ahead, Christina. I was gonna say, yeah, that really did stand out to me that they spent so much time on the safety aspects, which A, I do think is important, but that seemed very purposely designed, I think, to your point to get around it's kind of like what the NPA used to always say , like, you know, regulate yourself before the government does it for you. And this seemed very much to try to be in vain of that . There was a certain irony, right? That like a lot of the whole iPad kid phenomen and that sort of thing like it exists because of Apple, right? Like whether regardless of what sort of printal controls they put in place or not, a lot of these critiques that people have about how much screen time and how much time people spend with their devices as kids is predicated based on the success of IOS, right? Like it just is. And so that's an interesting, I think needle for Apple to have to thread because on the one hand, they don't want to admit that there's anything wrong with these devices, but on the other hand and they want you to continue to buy them and they want you to continue to buy a separate device for your child. It sure would be nice if as a family you could have, multiple users with different profiles. Well, I thought Jordan Sai said this, I thought it was interesting. She said experts say children should not have access to social media under, I think she said sixteen nineteen . I think she said sixteen could be wrong . And she also said and I think this is very important, the defaults in the new child safeties are the ones the experts recommend. So one hour of screen time, that kind of thing. You can change those. They created a website Apple. com slash child dash safety for parents to and I think this was important too to help parents understand how to do this. I like Apple's premise, which is, okay, we're going to put the default s in that that make your kids safe, but it is really up to the parents, not government to decide how to raise your kids. And I think that that was this kind of subtext of all of this. I think they did a really, really good job of what I love about these keynotes is that oftentimes if they're using this time wisely, it's not necessarily here's feature A, feature B, feature C, feature D. Here's a pre here's a demo of how it works. It's basically we're going to be releasing a whole bunch of things over the next year. Here is our philosophies behind them and things that in our messaging, we hope you keep in mind as you think about what our attitude is about John show this show my screen so we can go through this slideshow because I think this is yeah and this is really important. These are the things that they care about. Yeah they say basically I think there was a there was a line that another one that I basically wanted to write down word for word because it was so precisely put together and a really good single statement that Apple's policy, Apple's philosophy is balancing learning, creativity and connection while establishing boundaries , which we can provide parents with guidance when setting time allowances shaped by exper t health research American , they had like another almost a bento slide of here are all the different research firms and health research organizations that we collaborate with and exchange information with the NPA rating, Christina, one of them was a child safety group that is advocating ratings for kids for software . No, and they 're the ESRV. There've been a lot of things out there over the years that have done that. I will say I feel like this website and it's a good website, this website does not exist for parents. This website exists for the government. This website exists so that when they are called in the Congress and they need to speak about it, that they have an entire litany of things because I promise you that the lawyer spent as much time on this page as anybody else did. But I have to say and we've had this conversation, Steve Gibson and I haven't had this conversation. The best way to do this kind of stuff is not to put on the application developers, not to meta's shoulders, not to put on government's shoulders, but to put on the gatekeeper's shoulders, Apple and Google because it's the easiest for them to know what age the user is and to tell apps, here's the and they're doing this. There's an API that says which age group this user is in and then let parents who know their kids best determine which age that kid is, whether it's emotional or physical or chronological, I think that's the best way to do it to me, the safest way to do it. Well, also, yeah, and they were talking about the declared age range API that they have for development. They closed this hunk by basically bringing because they are they are talking nominally to developers that you have a responsibility. We're going to give you these tools, but it's your responsibility to make sure you take advantage of these things. Yeah. And so I've heard some people say, well, parents just don't raise their kids right so but that's well never the excuse for government to jump in and say, okay, well we're going to raise them for you. I mean , and absolutely right. I mean, the thing is like it's really abusive, I guess amongst the three hour conversation we could have about this. It's like if we have to have an age verification, I think that that's a very good idea. I would trust Google to process that verification data securely and accurate and safely and anonymously and then throw it away. And I would trust Apple to do that. I would not trust whatever lowest bidder contractor that whatever platform would trust with that And to Apple's credit also, I agree with everybody that this is mostly the reason why they put this in the keynote as opposed to a blog post or a video following up next week was they really wanted to put this front and center to lawmakers to the public to make sure they're starting they're going to win the public perception war. But they also added a whole bunch of really good logical features like they like basically the ability to basically metered a time allowances, they're calling it time allowances . So for instead of just simply limiting screen time, you can have allowances by category , grouping apps and websites, entertainment games, social media, that kind of thing. They can also basically time fence access to that stuff and say that while on the weekends, yeah, you can have lots of fun, whatever you want to do. During school hours, you can only access A B and C. That's related to school. To me most important was the default s. They had defaults for all of those . Yes. So all a parent really has to do is this first thing which is to go in settings, add your kid to the family well first thing parents do is buy an iPhone for the kid. They do have a slide that says, and if your kid is too young for an iPhone, give them a watch. So okay, this is good for Apple's bottom line. But all the parent has to do once they do that is say the age of the kid and the defaults you can basically trust. And I think that the kid has to ask the permission to download an app, the kid has to ask permission to watch something . I think this is how it should be. The most important thing that's been added arguably new ask to browse feature that is because before that, people were just going to Instagram. com or going to a site that then forwarded to Instagram. com and despite having Instagram blocked, then they were able to just visit it via the web. Despite not having children, I have had to become an expert on these controls because I'm regularly talking about it on Iowa today and helping people figure that out and the updates here , I think, very good especially as we talked about Leo, the fact that we are getting clear guidance now on what should be suggested. And as you go through the setup process, which by the way, the setup process before had so much cognitive load at the start with way too many options way too many choices and no one's going to do it or if they are they',re going to take forever to get things set up . I mean, anecdotally twice, I've seen people parents, you know, get an iPad for their kid and then bail halfway through that process of setting it up this way and then just create their child their child an adult account because they didn't want to deal with it. And what has happened here is the setup process for getting things going is much easier . And then from there , the controls that you have along the way have it's like sliders and checkboxes and that's what people need. And so you see at the point as Andy was talking about, these categories now that they do where it's schedule gated , it shows you for a child in this age range, we recommend sixty minutes of time with this. I think they've done a really great job with this. So really nailed it. This is the page you're talking about. Perfect. It says start off with guidance. We provide parents with guidance when setting time allowances based on a child's age and shaped by clinical and child development research. Parents can always adjust these settings, but notice there's a box that says within general guidance, so you can set it longer, but it's going to turn that off if you set it longer. I think this is exactly right. The defaults are well researched, at least Apple says are well researched . And when you just set the age, those defaults kick in and then you can change it later. I think this is as easy as it could be and as appropriate as it should be. I think it's interesting Christina that you say this is this is a page for government. And I think you're absolutely right and that's at least a secondary audience. Yeah, no and, that doesn't look to me saying that doesn't mean that I don't think that this is good for them to have defaults or that this isn't a good thing. But when I look at this page, I'm going this is no parent is going to browse this, right? And this that that's not the audience for this page. You're right. This page is for the government so that again, when they're called in and they will be, you know, to talk about these things, they're already been hearing. Well, Senator, let me show you what we're doing. Exactly. They can they can literally go in and boot. We've been not only have we taken this seriously, but we've been proactive and we've made these as our defaults and we have these options . Again, I do wish that you had like it's great that like you can have the child account. You can give them a phone or a watch or whatever . I would like to have multi user support at least on an iPad. Like I do feel like that when I heard them talking about that, I was like, you know, what would really be great is if I didn't have to buy my child's dedicated device if there could be a shared device and if I could, even if I had to relaunch the springboard, right? Like even if I had to essentially log out, but if, you know, for them to have access to things, I didn't have to get in their own that I then have to control who, you know, where is it stored or is it in their room or anything like that? Like that would be, I think, a lot better because what winds up happening at least in my family with my nephew is that his mom won't let him have a tablet, which is completely fine and completely fair. But when he's allowed to have iPad time, he's using either mine or my mom's. Now it's under our supervision, but he doesn't have, you know, an account or any of that. And I'm obviously not going to enable parental controls on my own account , but that means that I can't, you know, let him once he does get older, you know, use it unobstructed. And that's that's a little bit annoying. But we have practiced delayed gratification on this show. That was where the first few things in the keynote, but I know what you all want to know about what we're going to cover next , which is Apple Intelligence and the new series and actually Dustin in our club has already got in and a couple of people said yeah the wait time isn't too long. So if you did develop install the developer preview and you've applied maybe you're going to get it maybe Micah you'll get it before the show is over. I'm hoping I'm hoping I'll show you one of the things Dustin tried on it right away and in just a bit. You're watching MacBreak Weekly, Christina Warren Andy Anako filling for Jason Snell who's getting I presume demos today or maybe he just stuck around for Mandalorian Grogu. What I get. He said he wasn't going to go to the Steve Jobs student and see he was actually went to the he didn't he didn't see the special Apple Star Wars popcorn bucket that they're selling for only forty dollars at the Apple store. I'm joking, but filled with little finder guys . Popcorn finder guys . We will talk about AI when we come back. You're watching. Mac. Oh, I mentioned Jason's on here. That's of course Micah Sargent filling in. We're at Jason . It's great to have Micah. You did IOS today this morning and I'm sure you covered all of them. IOS stopping. Yeah . Yeah. So that's a good show too, especially if p youare'ntre a or you have an iPad and an iPhone and you want to think about it. Apple did some very interesting things in this keynote without mentioning any new form factors. They mentioned how to tell me you're making a new iPhone without telling us? We ar it. Yeah, talk about that in just a second . They were very clever, I thought. They didn't even smirk. They didn't even they were very cool, but we knew what they were talking about. Your show today brought to you by Pebble PEBL . Hiring fast is one thing. Hiring fast and staying compliant across different countries that's where things get tricky . And Pebble helps solve that tension. Pebble, PEBL , makes global hiring simple. Through embedded compliance and AI driven workflows, the Pebble platform takes the delays and guesswork out of going global, so founders and HR leaders can move fast without adding risk. Hiring abroad can take months when you do it on your own, but with Pebble, you can hire in over one hundred eighty and five countries in minutes and have your new hire on boarded by Monday . Most companies treat compliance as something they manage around, but by building a decade of expertise directly into the platform Peb.ble removes the fear of mistakes and the dreaded regulatory blind spots. Instead of juggling separate tools for contracts, payroll, benefits and compliance, Pebble brings everything together in a single platform that integrates with the tools teams already use and it reduces redundant tasks and manual processes that can lead to error and delay . The result a global team that's actually set up to succeed with accurate pay, real benefits, and the support they need to thrive wherever they are. So bottom line, anywhere is possible with Pebble. With global hiring, simplified founders and HR leaders can spend their time focusing on what and where comes next for their business. Pebble has a special offer for MacBreak Weekly listeners. Pebbles normally three hundred ninety nine cents a month pers employee , already a no brainer considering what you get. Right now, there's a limited time offer on their site that makes it even easier to get started. Go to highpebble. AI before it's gone. That's hi ppiebl ot a terms and conditions apply nice discount hipp el. A get there before it's gone. Thank you , Pebble for supporting, Mac , Break . Weekly . So Dustin in our club Twit said he applied installed the developer beta on his Neo , obviously an early adopter, Dustin and asked in fact he asked minutes ago, what is MacBreak Weekly ? MacBreak Weekly, it says, you can show this. Yeah, is a weekly podcast from the Twitter network that covers all things App le. Now this is good. It's up to date. Hosted by Leo LaPortian acco, Jason Stell, and Christina Warren. Nice . Nice. Yep, no mentions of that other guy. The show features a round table of tech journalists analyzing Apple News hardware software and ecosystem strategy. I think this is pretty good. And what's interesting is it's very up to date. Yeah, that's the important thing. I mean, they're using search grounding, which is a feature that all the major models have at this point . And so I'm not surprised, but I'm still that doesn't mean that I'm not happy to see it, right? Because and that's kind of going to be my mantra in our next segment is that none of I think of what they kind of showed off was at all surprising, none of it was groundbreaking , but I was still happy to see it and I'll be even happier if it actually works. Yeah, you know, what's interesting because the stock market normally it's normal for the stocks to go down when the announcements happen that the old adages you bu,y on the rumor, you se ll in the news. So traditionally, any event, any keynote, you're going to see stocks go down, but they've gone down kind of a lot That's the whole Nasdaq. There's something else happening with it's also going down Yeah, there's like a textile up like the DASAC the whole tech sector was down like three percent today. So I'm not really I don't know if we can draw any conclusions that hasn't anything just read the textile. They're down five bucks eighty and cents at one point eight nine percent, which is yeah, I guess the NASDAQ's down about two percent. So that's actually right in there with it. And you know, really, it's not what happens today. It's what happens next week and the week after . But so you don't think that people are looking at what Apple announced, I think some are and saying too little too late. I mean, some might be, but I mean, I don't know, the WWC is always difficult because this is the pre announcement so that the developers can have things ready to go for September . But September is when we're really going to see the real fruits of all this, right? Like we're going to see the new phones . Well, and that was one of the reasons going to happen. Yahoo financed said the stock went down is because Apple didn't give a definitive date. They didn't well for Daphle intelligence sure, but I don't know, but I mean, I think I think we all know that even if it's not in a finalized form, there will be some version of Siri AI on a new iPhone and on last year's iPhones , iPhone Pro and Air anyway in September you I mean, you've been in the AI space now you worked at Deep Mind. Yeah, you worked with copil ot at a github. So you really, more than anybody probably know what's going on with AI. It feels like Apple is catching up. Not so much plowing new furrows, but that's a terrible not so much advancing the thing, but just kind of catching up with what everybody else is doing. Is that right? I would say so, yes. I would say and that I don't think has to be a bad thing, right? Like I think that it would be and I want to be clear. I want to like, I guess temper my critique in a complimentary way because I do actually think this is a good thing . They did not pretend like any of this was revolutionary, which I appreciated. Right. Now two years ago when it was all smoke and mirrors and it was any of us who knew better were like, this doesn't feel right, they were pretending what they were doing two years ago is revolutionary. And then they found out they couldn't do it. And well, but not only that, but they were showing off two years ago, some of that wasn't even revolutionary. It was just like and then they couldn't do it either, right? So this time, it did seem like they had very purposeful and yeah, I do feel like they were canned demos and canned experiences and set up scenarios that may or may not be realistic. But it definitely is not a scape to where the pug is going moment. I'm not going to pretend that. I don't think it necessarily has to be because the biggest thing that they have to overcome is, you know, the last two years of stasis where the things they promised just didn't pan out and they have to eat, you know, a crow on that. And then I think, you know, what they kept reinforcing and this is going to always be, I think, their secret sauce, no matter who supplies their foundational model, no matter what they do, special on top of it, any of that, is that control the ecosystem. And so if you live in the Apple ecosystem and this is where it gets a little bit tricky , Apple has the opportunity to offer the most complete experience. And so that's the big thing. Did get the design right ? It is now all in the dynamic island, no more glow around the whole screen . I like the feature of you can get a question and answer in that dynamic island and pull it down . I like that too and get more stuff . I also liked that it's really good. I also like that it's an app. There was some , I think , I was there's a Siri app now. Yeah . Yeah. And I had I was on the cult of Mac podcast a week before last and we were talking about whether or not that would happen. And I was hoping that it would, but I was like, No, maybe they'll wait a year. I'm glad they did that because I think that there's a Gemini app, there's a Chasupy app, there's a Claude app, there's a perplexy app, you know, there's a Copil app. There are all these other apps out there. Even if it's not something that people have to use, I'm glad that they at least created it because I think that that is now the expectation . Although you can say, hey, Schlomo, you could press the button pressure button you don't have to use the app, but I'm glad they had one, just because the big difference , I think now versus where they were two years ago is that no one is going to be coming into this. Well, very, very few people are going to be coming into using Siri AI who do not have previous chat AI experiences . Like that's the thing is that is that you might have, you know, a couple kind of holdouts who have never used those types of things, but that's going to be the vast, vast majority of people have been using third party experien ces. They're not tied to Siri at all. And I don't mean Siri that you've connected to chat JPT. I mean people who have been using on their iPhone third party chat applications . So I think that it's a good thing to A have your own , yes, I can, you know, listen from wherever, I can pull it up from a button, I can pull it from the dynamic island, but also recognizing that there are habits that people have formed over the last couple of years that are not going to go away and that , you know, hopefully the hopefully for Apple , you know, Apple intelligence and Siri AI can now slide into into where they they used to go to to Claude or Chat GPT or whatever. Yeah, I was I was very impressed impressed with how smooth ly the experience translates from one experience to the other. The idea of when it's it makes sense for just simply there are times you just holding up the phone and you just want to speak a speak a command or ask a question and get an answer. Dynamic Island expands, you get this little bubble bubble that says that yes that this is Seri and this is handling it. But then if you simply swipe down from that, then you get that full screen chat GPT gemini app type of experience that people are used to. And then even on the back where you can surface Siri in so many different places , it still expresses itself in the space of what would be a very, very comfortable transition from the phone experience to this desktop experience without making you feel as though now being you're basically being teleported to Siri land amidst all this other these other projects you did. Again, I mean we talked about this last week but, Apple's invention of the Dynamic Island is just paying off so many different so many different benefits. I can't think of a different way. I can't think of another way to put a smart assistant into a device that feels so natural, so that the presence of this of this assistant that's basically at the desk just outside your office waiting for you to call upon it and then it can simply walk in and suddenly be the focus of this conversation or be a partner in trying to solve a problem. It's such a really, really nice way of doing things. I don't think anybody will claim that Apple showed off anything in Siri AI that we haven't seen done by all the these other assistants over the past couple of years. I don't think, however, I've ever seen one that's integrated so well into the day to day experience of using a phone. To me, that's the key of all this. This is now , even if people have used AI, this is now in everybody's hands in everybody's pockets. This is going to make it much and I don't think actually open AI or anthropic or even Google should be threatened by any of this because it's just making this commonplace and it's something that people expect and do. And I think Apple's done this is what their skill is. They've product ized it in a way that is very accessible, very appealing Again, all of this is predicated on the notion that they're going to actually deliver that this is not just a canned demo. Although Mike put in an article from Julie Bort at Tech Crunch who's pointing out that because Apple had a quarter of a billion dollar settlement for false advertising. Right. They have been a little bit more careful . Apparently on the talk show, they told John Gruber that these were all done without editing . Not necessarily on the first take. I know . Right. So I'm sure it wasn't, but yeah, which takes yeah, I'm sure they would do multiple takes and that makes sense, right? I mean, like, I just know from doing they call a live like format. That sort of li ve in context, I think that's okay. This is a developer conference. They're showing something that's not even available to the public in beta yet. If even developer in the developers hands, it's not in wide beta yet. So long as they don't make that same mistake before, so long as you're not looking for hey, Mike when we were watching it, Mike, I even said this. It's good it's slow because otherwise I would know that they had they had faked it. Right. That's exactly . It's almost and I think that there might be a little bit of building that in now. It's a little bit like what we're seeing where some people are putting little mistakes into their words so that you know they're not done by a do now. Yeah. So I think I'm not funny that we had that sort of l ull on. When we were designing tech TV twenty six years ago , no, twenty eight years ago , one of the things I really hated about all the other previous computer shows was how edited they were. And I said, We're going to do it live and if it crashes on set, it's crashing. If it takes us two hours to install Linux, we're going to take two hours . I want people to have the real experience because otherwise people feel bad. They go, Gee, it never worked that well for me. Is there something wrong with me? Yeah. So I'm glad I think being honest , whether or not you had to pay a quarter of a billion dollar settlement is a good thing. So I'm hoping that they are being honest. I what they did do, what they did what they had to do , they achieve what they had to achieve. They didn't have to achieve that, hey, well, look, here's an actual live. We're doing this for the we're doing this right now live in front of the entire audience. They didn't have to do that. What they had to do is make sure that they communicate that this is something we're still developing. It's not done yet. We're not even going to give you a date when it's going to be released. However, we have finalized what the interface is going to be like and what is going to be a typical sort of interaction. And they showed off me chanisms for interaction that I think are very, very appealing. Well , this is their skill. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I had my I had my pixel phone and set up basically the same way as Siri is on the other phone where you just hold down a button and you basically talk to it. And I was basically echoing whatever they were doing on the demo phones I was trying to do with Gemini . And feature for feature, they were kind of being matched, but again, it didn't feel like basically the assistant was kind of taking over the entire screen . It didn't feel like it's not that it was a subpar experience, but it wasn't nearly as clean an experience. It made me feel as though if I had clawed AI or if I had opened if I had any other client attached to that button, I would have the exact same experience. Now again, we were still we're still sort of like at the end of the at the start of the runway for Gemin ized integration agentic apps and controlling other apps through Android. So maybe we'll see some more payoff of that later on. But for what Apple chose to show during its developer keynote versus what Google chose to show during its developer keynote. I really think Apple, even in terms of things that are not going to be shipping for several months on either side, Apple did a told a much, much better story. Well, I have to point out that apparently Athropic was waiting until the day after Apple's announcement because they just released Fable . Yep. Their new model, which they say is based on mythos . This is the newest anthropic model. And of course, this is on the heels of Opus four hundred eight. I think it's less than a month after four eight came out. Yeah . So I guess we'll all be playing with this to see. I'm sure the token cost will be high, but yeah, it is. It's double. It's very high. But it's supposed to have fewer errors. Like, so it's unclear what that will be, but yeah, it's double the tokens, but it's supposed to do better on shorter line . I ran it on something that was a more creative thing that I had done with Opus before just to see if it could do better at being that form of creative. And I was very impressed with the output thus far, but the whole time I'm going, Oh my god, double the tokens, double the tokens. Yeah . Well, I still have my Max subscription for a few more days . So maybe I'll maybe I'll try to mess with it and see what I can find out. Wow , that, you know, clearly they it's very obvious they waited till the day after WWDC and said, Okay and not not even even to Trump Apple, but knowing because look, we're going to get our thing reported on a lot more heavily if we can basically be an Apple's slip stream and everyone's talked about Apple's AI as well. I mean, it's an exciting time. You love to see a time where everybody is working to create the best product and to get the most loyalty from its customers . In five or ten years' time, it'll be of course through fishiness, sketchiness , sub terfuge and lying minority now. However, it's right now compared there anything. You're being optimistic. Oh, well, I'm all I'm saying is that every time I turn every time I give my attention to one of these apps for a little while, I think, oh my god, it does that didn't do that like two months ago. And I mean , I could go bankrupt with all the subscriptions that I want to have with all these different AIs and I don't know like if I can afford to basically have every limit that I want to blow past on every different service blown past because just things you can do if you blink for for two months, there's suddenly a big problem of yours that's being solved. And again, that's not going to last forever. At some point, they're going to instagram this whole thing and make you regret that you were one of these early you're going to regret that, oh did, I really make a blog post that says there's this thing called Instagram? It's the most wonderful thing ever, and I hope it never goes away. Yeah, I said that. And then someone came along and ruined it, but we're not in the ruined phase yet. Yeah , yeah. There is some question in my mind about how much Google there is in all of this. Apple was at great pains to say this is our model. These are our models. The on device model is Apple foundation model . The Cloud model is an app and foundation model . And they did say not in the keynote, and I don't even know if they said in the platform. I think they did, but they certainly in some of the sessions that they are running with Nvidia chips on Google servers in some cases for the most challenging . A lot of the features felt like Gemini, felt like Nano Banana, felt , I mean, even the own device , but they're saying no, no, but my question is, well, what are you paying Google a billion dollars a year for if you're not running Gemini? What do you think, Christine? Are they running Gemini? Or are they they? No, are they are, but they are they're running friend. Well, I mean, they're not running consumer gemini, right? Like, I mean, it's the way I saw some Apple, Google Right. Well, what I used with two backs come? What I would guess and I don't have any inside knowledge about this at all and with the disclosures that I used to work on Geini, but I don't know anything about this. What I would guess would be that they have access to the core foundational model that they are doing their own post training of at itop and customizing it and making their own adjustments. They are running things in private cloud compute either in their own data centers or in quarantined off parts of Google data centers that are dedicated exclusively for Apple's use and that 's how they can do the private compute stuff. And that many of the capabilities and that many of the tasks are going to be very similar to what you would get from Gemini if you were to access it just from the API , but are going to be customized and there will be some differences based on however Apple wants to tweak it. And this isn't uncommon. Like you see this cursor has done something similar with their composer models that they include as an option where they use the chemi open weight models and they do their own post training on top of it. I think it's something like that. It's distilled gemini and I think that Apple can have their own post training and their own information that they're going to be feeding it that might customize it . But the model experience itself, I would be shocked if there weren't many vast similarities just to overall performance. Like they can tweak the voice, they can maybe tweak, you know, some of the output preferences, but I would be shocked if many of the core, you know, capabilities and whatnot are not the same as what Google's doing. That said, and this is what I was trying to get out of a couple of weeks ago on the show. That is not to say that like everything that you can do in an ultimately optimized version of Gemini running on a pixel device that Google is controlling, you can now do on an iOS device and vice versa, the same way that if I was wanting to just, again, just pay Google directly for API access and wanting to custom iz asedpects of the model I could maybe get a slightly different experience and I could maybe recreate parts of what Google lets you do if you're in their ecosystem, but it wouldn't be out of the box giving me all those capabilities. So I think they're doing their own training, their own adjustments , but they're they're, you know, using the work from Google. I don't know which versions they're , you know, they have access to, I assume they're probably given access to the newest things as soon as they come out and can make adjustments as necessary. But I would kind of look at it, I think, as maybe like not a fork, but like that's probably the best analogy I can think of of the model versus just a direct copy. Yeah. So Apple has a paper the third generation of Apple's Foundation models that they talk about all of this, but there's still a little cage ony what Google's says for AFM three cloud pro, that's the highest, most demanding tasks. We worked with Google and Nvidia to extend private cloud compute to NVIDIA GPU's in Google Cloud while maintaining the same guarantees for users' privacy, so encryption and so forth. You know, I have to say Apple has, of course, a lot of machine learning research and smart scientists , but we've never really been able to play with these Apple models. I've seen a lot of white papers. I don't know how good the Apple models are break this barrier , AFM three Core Advanced introduces a novel sparsely activated architecture built on instruction following pruning, IFP, a technique developed by Apple researchers. They're claiming a lot of innovation here. The problem is they haven't been out in the world like open AI, Google and Anthropic have been, you know, this is and look, I mean they are probably correct and that they they've accomplished a lot of really unique things and how they're able to especially access this on hardware. And I think the way that they're doing this for cloud and local is very unique and is interesting . Somebody got mad at me because I commented that this was very clearly them punting and kind of admitting that the on device model stuff story wasn't going to work and that most of what you do My example. They went from a crap product based clearly on AFM to something that looks like it's pretty clearly based on nanob a. Yeah, yeah. Yeah . Yeah . Okay . How did they make that leap? Is it all AFM or is it a little bit of Google in there? I mean, I mean, I'm sure that they started from assumption would be, I don't know if they did. Distilling enough to make it that good? I mean, I think they probably threw away everything they had before and then started rebuilding atop the Gemini foundational stuff is what I would guess. Yeah, yeah. But they're making enough changes that they don't have to call it pure, you know, gemini. They can say, you know, the base of this and they can still call it an Apple foundational model. Sorry , I'm sure it's also part of the agreement, right? That if we do our little thing to it, then it's ours. Well, what's interesting is Apple has let Google talk about this entirely up till now, right? This is the first time Apple talked about it but also like an eight word statement where every you feel like every word costs the legal teams of both companies eighty three thousand dollars in legal time to agree on what these eight words were going to be. Right. It's like a negotiation a nuclear it seems very information , right? Yeah, I mean I'll just gonna add Christine was that there is apparently Craig Frederigi and the rest of like the AI team that led segments of the keynote regarding AI gave like a tech talk to press right afterward. Yeah, yeah. And basically they didn't say a whole lot more except for Craig promised to say a whole lot more like later. Like they described it as a night to five Mac, I think, has a quote, blah blah blah blah blah to our FMF model image model. These are the models that are the product of our collaboration with Google, and you'll hear more about that when we continue . But so barely an expansion on what they've been saying before is that we are collaborating with Google on creating new Apple foundation models . The language, I think that the language seems to be crafted and you can wo Inder what you think about that is if they're trying to at least faint towards this is not Gemini in any way, shape, form, this is simply that's the impression they weren't getting we needed we knew what we knew what the bathroom wanted to look like, but we didn't know anything about plumbing. So we write this guy to help us learn how to plum in this room. Christina, where's this quote that you just posted in that was from that machine learning link that you had, I'll put that in other but I want to read this because I think this is interesting and I think it goes to kind of your point, Andy, like they are absolutely not seeing Gemini anywhere, but they said to support our new Apple intelligence experiences, we significantly scaled pre training on the latest generation of cloud TPU accelerators processor. TPU is a Google thing. So cloud TPU accelerators that means Google Cloud, all models shared a common initial foundation , we can read into that however we want before specializ ing for the respective architectures and use cases, adding multi model capabilities like audio, image understanding, long context reasoning, and high quality visual generation. We then expanded our post training process combining super vised fine tuning with multi stage refinement , reinforcement learning. You have to really guess in this, but Google come in. It came from somewhere . Well, yeah. And so it might even be as simple as a thing where their lawyers and everybody 's able to say, well, even though the foundations that we're using are the same foundations that are used for Gemini or what the consumer version of Gemini is known for, we're not calling it that because it has enough differences that it's not , but to get the Apple foundational model and to get Gemini, you're starting with the same base would be my guess, right? And there might be divergences , you know, at a certain point. It might even be now, right? Where with enough of the post training stuff, there are enough divergences. But I think that those core model capabilities those had to have come from, I mean, from their own admission, they came from like a shared thing. It doesn't seem like this was a thing that Apple just suddenly developed themselves. Like they're using Google's cloud and capabilities. So I don't know. So you're saying that this is definitely not like Gemini with the serial numbers filed off. This is you think that this is like a new thing , but based on I think it's based on Gemini. Yeah, I mean, I think I don't think it's Gemini with its serial filed off, but I also feel like in a lot of use cases, there's not gonna be a big difference between whether it was or not. And that I think is honestly also a thing that we should all acknowledge is that a lot of these large models at this point, there are areas where they can be specifically better at one thing or another. They're all really good. They all do really similar things. And that's a good thing, right? But like that makes it that makes it harder if you're a model provider, how do you distinguish yourself? But if you're Apple, you don't have to worry about that as much, right? Because the end user doesn't care who ultimately did their research to get to the foundational model that's on their phone. All they care about is Seri going to work or not? Is the image that is generated going to look like garbage or is it going to actually be useful or not? Right? Is the photo stuff going to be good or not? Like that's all they care about. They don't care about what research team ultimately trained the data set that led to the creation of this model. As someone who has so much experience with like not just AI but also development. What do you think there's a question that I keep trying to figure out , which is that the deal with Google has always been described as no, we're not basically going to be using Google forever. We're not basically choosing it as our as our de facto provider. This is to help us get through to the next thing when we have our own model. Do you think that the way that these things get built, does this sound like at some point they're going to unplug the stuff that is basically part of the contract that Google might have some licensing rights to and plug back in something that they've been developing alongside it or is it something where at some point in two or three years their own model will have learned enough from the Gemini influence that I basically so we're not talking about a Lego brick that they remove and then replace it with the one that they don't have to pay for. This is they're going to it's just going to get smarter and smarter and smarter until there is no more reliance on whatever it is that they have to pay Google for. Yeah, I mean I think their model. I mean that's probably their ultimate goal. I don't know how realistic that is or how much that matters, right? I mean, like part of the part of the issue too, I mean, this is what's interesting. What they have talked about and they talked about this again with the private compute stuff and other things is that they need Google's data centers. Right. They need the TPUs, they need the hardware. Like the first time and this was actually something that the me and a friend of mine who used to work at Apple, we were at the talk show. We were listening to JG talk about like the Apple Silicon and how they were doing, you know, all the Apple intelligence stuff, you know, in their servers and whatnot. And we were we were both kind of we were texting back and forth going, this doesn't make sense like they don't from what we've seen, they don't have the architectural kind of, you know, infrastructure in place to do this sort of thing. And that turned out to, I think, be accurate because they're having to use now they're even saying specialized NVIA hardware and Google's data centers, right? They're they're walking back the fact that they could just use Apple Silicon and that,'s okay So you think it's mostly compute I don't think it's just compute. I think that it's awesome model stuff, but I think compute is definitely a part of it. It's ironic because Google's paying XAI a billion month to get more to get more. And part of that is I'm sure to be able to serve all of their customers, right? Because like Apple doesn't maybe more for inference and training, right? Exactly. Like and for it's for Vertex. It's for all these other aspects, right? Like they have all these customers, but I'm sure that for instance, I'm not going to make any assumptions here, but I would be very surprised if for instance, anything that Apple was doing was going to live in any data center that was not fully controlled by Google , right ? But the fact that Apple said that they are running these things on custom NVIDIA and custom Google hardware , that is an admission right there that says the models that we built , our hardware is not enough to be able to run and do inference on these things, right? Which is okay. As an end user, I would much rather have the models be good. And if that means you need to use somebody else's hardware for that purpose. Great. Do you think Apple has enough compute to build the models ? I can see they may not have enough for the inference, but they may I don't know. Well, 'm I mean, where are these data centers? Well, right. I was going to say Apple for years. That's been kind of the dirty secret is like they do have some of their own data centers, but a lot of Azure and yeah, well, they did use Azure and then I think they moved to Amazon. And a lot of it for years and years has been Google Cloud, which I think is probably why , you know, the Gemini thing made some sense or the Google Deal in made some sense. I don't know if it's so much even like the compute. I don't know if Apple Silicon. I don't like, I don't know that they've if they've created truly like a device specific thing, maybe now they're getting closer to that place where they would have the hardware that would do what they would need to do. It's really interesting. I think the rest of the story will be told as we get access to it and so forth, but it's a very interesting question which Apple has been a little bit slightly cagey about. By the way about it , I think it's okay. Just a second ago, I ran Fable, the latest anthropic model in Claude Code against a code base that Claude Code had audited built and audited many times and found numerous . That sounds like funny. That was the first thing I did with a security flaws. For some stuff that I had. So it says nothing 's terrible, but yeah, it found quite a few things and it's fixing them right now. So I think Fable does have some security capabilities . Holy cow We're going to take a little break and come back with more, including a little hint Apple dropped about perhaps future hardware. There were no hardware announcements. You know what I was really shocked by talking all about S iri and Voice and AI, they didn't mention homepods, they didn't mention any other devices. It was iPhone, iPad, and Mac, iPhone, iPad and Mac . And that surprised me a little bit. I thought that was an opportunity to talk about home pods. Very quickly because I know you're going to commercial, but I kind of assumed they'd be too busy that for home pods and stuff like that. But I was very surprised they didn't have at least like a couple of minutes of hey and we are like kind of like the number one hardware platform for AI. We can't not say we can't keep Mac y mentioning minis in studios yep but basically saying hey look here 's how good our M five is and here's how it's benchmarking against against other agents that are on the platform and they and they had they had actually a very good seminar what do you call these things breakup in No afternoon the breakup session on running a Gentic AI on Apple Silicon. Yes. And it was quite good. And it was almost one hundred percent like consumer oriented. That was only the key very end of that. Only the very end of the evened here's a whole bunch of stuff about Excode, try not to notice that we're kind of like showing you that we're working on affordable. But anyway , the funny thing on the XCode session spent a lot of time, maybe this was in the platform, I think it was in the platform. They spend a lot of time talking about how now you can open an X Code project without naming it first. Yes. Yeah, I picked up on that too. That was like a big feature, huh? Well, I mean here and new themes. Yeah . Well, I mean, I think what's happening in this gigantic in this clawed, you know, like, you know, GPT five, you know, co pilot, whatever driven world is that if you are somebody especially who's new to starting a project , the first time you are faced with, you know, opening up X code, it is not an easy process. No, it's true. And it is . I think Jason Snell even mentioned or wrote something about that about the process of getting started is just way too convoluted. And it is, and that's been the case for years. You know, I think themes are, I mean, it's funny. It's taken them that many years to do that. But yeah, I mean, the fact that you can just start without having to go through all the different iterations, clearly that was aimed at Vibecoders, clearly that's aimed at an extraction of developers. And I think that's a good thing. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's take a little break. We'll come back with more well play some of the new voices for you. Again, this is stuff that we've been, you know, others have been doing for ages in Apple 's just finally catching up . You're watching MacBreak Weekly. Christina Warren is here. It's nice to have Christina on developer relations at GitHub , but she was also at Deep Mind. She's worked with these tools . She knows a little bit about this stuff. This is one of those episodes where my main it is. Andy, shut up and listen and ask her some questions that you can use when the stuff you're writing this week. Well , I was going to say this is really, really valuable. To your credit, you're also a Google user and you have a lot of experience with Gemini on Androids. So I think that that experience is also very valuable because you've seen this stuff in play on your phone for a long time now . You know, a lot ofs of some the phot o editing features and so forth are just really basically clones , which is why I really feel like there's a lot of gemini in this, despite what they say. It feels like a lot. When we talk about the voice stuff and the natural language stuff, it's like, I hear gemini. Yeah., I do too. Yeah like Sergeants here who is of course, our IOS Guru, host of IOS today. Was Rosemary excited about shortcuts? Yes, absolutely. One of the things she's looking forward to is having speaking of coding send in their shortcuts requests with how Siri AI created the shortcut , and then she will do one sort of without looking at what Siri did and compare the two. So we're going to see kind of nice how a trained model behaves versus how a trained human being behaves on it just to look for the differences. I apologize for the cross talk. My AI is Fable is telling me all the wonderful things it's done . But I updated this and I changed this. Yeah. I said, well, go ahead and fix it . Why not? That's so I'll sleep better tonight. Although I have to say, I don't have to sleep better tonight because I have a Helix mattress, our sponsor for this portion of MacBreak Weekly. I always have a good night's sleep with my Helix mattress. We decided at least and I decided to upgrade about a year ago when I read that you should replace your mattress. I didn't know this every six to ten years. The mattresses wear out, who knew this? You know, I was rotating and all that stuff, but no, they start to sag, they start to overheat . But it's so important. I think sometimes we don't pay enough attention to our sleep. And as I get older, that is more and more important to long term health, to fighting Alzheimer's, for instance. And of course, whatever your age, good a nights's rest set you up for a great day. You gotta feel good. Summer's almost here, now would be a good time to upgrade to a helix mattress, no more night sweats. They sleep nice and cool and comfy, no back pain , no motion transfer. You got a pet. Every time our cat jumped on the bed, I thought, earthquake . And I have to say, I'm really glad we chose Helix. We went and we did all the shopping, we read all the reviews . And we decided and I think you should do the same not to settle for one of those mattresses in a box made overseas with low quality, you know, who knows what kind of materials in there. And then shipped on a container ship for months . Smells like bunker fuel when you open the box. Rest assured , that's not the case with Helix. Your Helix mattress is assembled, packaged and shipped from Arizona and they make it to order. So it's brand new. You can also take the Helix Sleep Quiz. We did this sixty seconds to find your perfect mattress. It matches you with the perfect mattress based on what your personal preferences are and your sleep needs . We got the mattress that's just right for us. And I have to say our experience has been very positive. In fact , it matches exactly Helix's own studies. They did a Wespery sleep study meas,uring participants ' sleep performance after doing what we did, switching from their old mattress to a helix mattress . They found that eighty two percent of participants saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle . Mine almost doubled Participants on average achieved an additional twenty five minutes of deep sleep per night. Now that is almost doubling because you know, typically half an hour to an hour is all you get. But that's the most important one, especially for keeping your brain healthy, clears out all that junk that your brain accumulates during the day. Participants on average achieve thirty nine more minutes of overall sleep per night . And I have to tell you, I got both and I feel great when I wake up now. For ten years Helix has consistently ranked at the top across the top independent review sites. I mean the big guys they've been tested and reviewed by wired For,bes , a wire cutter. Everybody loves Helix. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the U. S. and rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges, the happy with Helix Guarantee provides a risk free customer first experience, ensuring you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. Go to helixleep dot com slash MacBreak right now twenty percent off site wide during their summer savings. That's helixleep dot com slash MacBreak for twenty percent off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you and this offer does end june eleventh, so you only have a few more days. And if you're listening after the sail ends, don't worry. Always great deals. Check them out Helix leep dot com slash MacBreak. We thank you so much for supporting MacBr.ick weekly I thank them for my great night's sleep so Zarf . Christina is at the Apple Store shopping for you right now. Your MBW roaming correspondent is at the Apple Park Visitor Center Ask Me Anything . There's a man in a suit and sunglasses and earpiece guarding a matte black cyber truck in a handicap spot. What in the world ? Oh dear, oh de dearar, oh. I want a picture of that. Maybe the guy would keep you from doing that. Shout out to David Murphy who went over the weekend to get me one of the new crew necks that they that they are selling . He does have the new water bottles and I, think you said it put me down for one of those as well. Yeah Well, thank you, Sarf. Yeah, great job, Sarfig Our Man on the spot . Let me play let me play some samples for you. Apple, of course, one of the things they talked about was how much better the voice is. This is the current series. We said in the book club group chat, are we still on for Saturday? I only have one more chapter to go . Melvin replied I'm in. That's not that bad, but this is what the new AFM three core advanced will sound like. Kai said in the book club group chat, are we still on for Saturday? I only have one more chapter to go . Melvin replied, I'm in. We're meeting at Lisa's house this time, right? And Lisa replied . So expressiveness is definitely a dialed up. I don't know if I mean when you think about vocal they're introducing vocal fry, which is something that a voice coach would try to eliminate from you. It's kind of like remember the early days of like digital studio effects where like if we will look more real if we put in a lens flare and suddenly lens flares were everywhere. The way to explain it is to introduce hums and pauses that might seem quite natural. And that's one of the things I associate with Gemini. The voice, the voice that I hear off my phone and off my Google devices. And that's why when I heard those demos, I thought, okay, I think that's probably I wish that they had the Android had the feature where just two sliders were just let me change the pace of it and let me change but I did show them the tonality of it on the new series you can actually change my voice to I also but I wouldn't be great if you could also like have a different have the same voice but different profiles for different things. Like I would love it. I want notifications to be kind of fast, but when it's reading me like documents, when it's reading me long emails, I need to go a little bit more slowly so I can absorb the information. I wish that would be a great refinement in a future version of this. Again, these details, they're doing such a good job of this stuff. Yeah . I mean, I have to say that companies like Eleven Labs are light years ahead of them. Of course, because they do they're Kentucky fried chicken . They make one thing and do it well. They do really good voices. In fact, one of my good friends scary good. Yeah, I've been scary good. One of my good friends uses a a kind of quirky voice for his agent. I have it just kind of a British voice, but he uses this voice, brother Wayne Hudson. Back in my day when you said you were a Christian , it really meant something. See, these are really good fully surrendered to Christ. And so but what he does is he turns it way down so it's slow and then he puts punctuation in the middle of the words so it stutters a little bit and it sounds like there is some human in your machine. I mean, it's really kind of almost scary . Yeah. One of the highlight features of Google Ao was, hey, now we have regional accents as well, not just like American regionals, but in every single territory in which we have voice . I love we have regional access. Yeah. I always use British for my you'll have to distinguish like I think a lot of us use more than one synthetic voice for different tasks and you need to have like just like you want to have like it's great when you have different people in a meeting and they have different types of voices you know exactly that with my agent. And exactly exactly I told my agent. If it's an emergency, use a different voice if it's just a bland announcement, use a different voice. And so I feel like there's a whole host inside my machine, which is my Siri and my Gemini like are from different parts of the planet for exactly that reason so that I can make sure that I don't mistake one for the other. Eactxly. It's like having a ring tone. Yeah . Apple did kind of sneakily put in some things. For instance, Macrumors caught this little tidbit, Julie Clover . Among other things , you can share a phone number with two different phones . Why would anybody want to have the same number on two different phones? So maybe if you wanted a folding phone, but you wanted a better camera on an iPhone eighteen pro Max . I'm thinking how much money can I spend with it? Well , the thing is like there is foldables, particularly with Samsung and OnePlus and I have been around long enough that there is marketing research. And I was very surprised. Most people who have foldables will trade in their old phone and use put the money towards the foldable and that becomes their primary device. They're not carrying around second to different phones . So I don't know if it's about that. But they did they did have something like in the actual keynote itself that at worst was a little bit cheeky. They showed in that little X code section, they have a new device simulator called Device Hub. And they said, Oh, you can just change things dynamically. And they had here, here's here's the iPhone simulator. And then someone grabs the side of it and stretches it out into a horizontal thing. And now it's not and now it's an iPad. Why would it be so wide so wide iPhone? No even but I did have to freeze frame that and double check. It's like no it's not there's not like the buttons on the window it is a wide screen iPhone app. And I know that like we can't help but to scrutinize every single detail , but it again, it could be just something very, very cheeky that they're doing because they know that people know what's going on and might have nothing to do with how you simulate a transition from like an iPhone to an unfolded iPhone ultra. But the idea of like if it's still like full screen, but there are not going to be Window Management toggles or features onto it. That would be interesting, wouldn't it be? Well , I have to say in the sessions, they definitely emphasized make sure don't assume anything about screen aspect ratios . Make sure in your X code that you use our new responsive design . So I think they're not hiding it. They're not smirking when they say it, but it's pretty clear they're not hiding it either . So this is Roofer. Rumors have it that now they actually have working prototypes in the hands of carriers and they're actually using them like for outside testing. Yeah, we're so dummies . I mean, Scotty Dickinson Sunny Dickinson released his dummies . I'll show you that they really look like it's an iPad mini when it's unfolded. These are you typically see these once manufact urer starts . They send them to case makers and so forth. So from Sonny Dixon Dummy units . I'm definitely buying this, but the problem is I really want the good camera. I know the iPhone eighteen is going to have an amazing camera. That's where I'm at too. And so I am actually happy. I don't know numbers. Yeah, I was gonna say I was going to say I don't care like if it was just for this purpose or not because Andy's probably right about the research, but certainly and there are a lot of use cases actually, like if you have a work phone and you also , you know, you want work stuff on, but you don't, you want to be able to still access that other device. Like as a two phone user, I deal with that all the time. So I'm happy to have this feature period, but I'm with Yuleo. I'm at this point where I'm like, I've been on the fence I've been like, all right, I'm just going to trade in not trade in. I'm going to keep my iPhone seventeen Pro Max for another year pay, off the Apple upgrade plan, just keep it and then buy the fold. And now I'm like , maybe I just trade it in and have, you know , have the eighteen and almost almost bought a first generation pixel fold because they were on wood. com for dollar four hundred and fifty dollars which for me is a viable purchase as a second thing to maybe sort of play with and get some hands on experience with. And then I remember that, well this is the first, not only just the first generation of a phone, but the first generation of a folding phone and the first generation of a folding phone made by Google, which does not have a good reputation with the first generations of anything . But yeah, I am with you. It's like I don't think I could live with just a folding phone as my one thing. It has to the first time that I want to take a type of picture and I can't, and I'll realize I realize that I could have saved five hundred dollars and had a twice as good cameras as this. And how many times do I absolutely need to use this as an unfolded iPad. I'm not unfortunately I'm not wealthy enough to be able to bear both of those costs at once unless the thing was just so over the top great. And I don't and the thing is we're still at the point where if you're getting a foldable, you're going to have to give up something if you're going to get that one nifty bar trick What else are we? What else? Let's see. The photo stuff . They show this a lot. I feel like this is Gaussian splatting as well, where you can take a photo, you can outfill it , you can move it around and re frame it. So they have three buttons . There was reframe . There was out not outfill, but it was effective. It's expanded. Imagine band. Yeah . See, here I'll just do that. That was pretty clean up, extend and spatial reframing. That's it. And spatial reframing their claim, they said actually that comes from Vision Protect. That was pretty darn slick. When I saw just the first slide, I thought, okay, basically so that I can grab I wish that the person on the left were a little bit closer to the right and I can grab it, it'll select it, then move it and fill in the no they're actually they're actually simulating an actual move of the camera so that if you basically want the camera to be lower , the perpetual change the perspective of the entire scene in a simulated way that at least at least in the three hundred pixels wide of a frame grab from this video at the keynote looked very, very convincing , but that's pretty darn special because that is the number times you are on your phone. You're like, that would have been a good picture had I not had I thought to basically make sure that there's more of the subject more of the sky behind the subject. And now instead of just simply saying, Oh, well it is what it is. And it's one hundred percent authentic, you can say, I can fake being a good, better photographer by making better decisions after I click the shutter. That's pretty great. I'm surprised though they didn't mention that in the in the document that they posted on in the newsroom, it is labeled with synth ID. All the different all the different edits that are now capable inside the Apple Photos app is basically tagg ed with this industry Google led ID tag to say this is AI generated . That was something they should have probably mentioned during the actual keynote itself because I'm like, I know Apple is not going to be irresponsible enough to suggest that given that one of the first features they showed off was that, hey, we can even like generate images based on people that are already in your photo album. And I'm like, okay, that could be very creepy and very scary. Tell me that you're adding Apple style protections against this being abused . But yeah, they are tagging with Synth ID. But that's the one place where they failed to talk about privacy, failed to talk about security in a because it was those two are always intrinsically relevant in any conversation about AI and they repeatedly made sure they had they made that part of the conversation in every other feature that they were discussing throughout a hundred minute keynote. Mike, have you played with the photo editor? Yeah, I'm going to get the original editor well. Yeah, I want to see. So Mike has running the developer preview. Are you running the developer preview? Christopher? Yes, that is correct. Oh, yes you, have Christ.ina Oh yeah, no, I am not. I don't know if I will. The problem is that I have multiple devices and I have a device I probably could put it on, but until the series stuff comes A I don't know . For work, I would never be able to put it on my work device. I just wouldn't and I'm gonna be honest like if I had like Mike's job or like you know this was Micah has to I right but like yeah I don't remember what year it was. 'Cause I used to always do it and even after it was no longer my job, now that it's no longer my job, like in August, I'll look at it. But I'm the same. I've never burned my job. Yeah, it's been burnt too many times, honestly. Yeah. I'll do the public. Maybe I'll do the public in July. It sounds like you're going to not even do the first public release. This is the one I really want to do, though. I mean, I really want to play with this. So Mikey, you did this, did you do this on IOS today? This photo ed itor? Yes, that is correct. And I'm about to share the video. People could see this if they wanted to in real time . How long did it take to do ? How hard it 's maybe ? Yeah, so it essentially just pops up and this is on device Gaussian splattering. Exactly. Okay, and there we go. There's the paste. So here's the original . Okay, so this is the original photo and it's a nice photo, but you said the person who took it was sh ort. Yeah, it was pretty short. So it was they're looking kind of up at us and screaming us. I thought that was Johnny Depp and that's me on the left. I'm dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow and then the person on the right is dressed as one of my favorite characters of all time, Sam is his name on the right. And so I just had to get a photo of Sam. Oh, that is subtle, but it's much nicer. Yeah. It's just a little bit directly across from us as opposed to coming from below . And it is not apparently edited in any way. I mean, you know, you can't really tell . The reframe is very subtle and it also depends on the photograph in terms of how it was captured, what the depth information is that's available . And so do you have to use it in portrait mode ? It appears that I can run it on photos that aren't in portrait mode, but not as well.. Right There's a lot more generation that needs to take place when you do that. So the depth. Yeah, like, I took a photo that I just saved online somewhere , which of course then didn't have that depth data built in, made some adjustments to it and you could see artifacts and things that you wouldn't see that you do not see in this . So Anthony Nielsen, our AI guru is asking, you think the first part is local doing the Graussian Splat and the outfill is maybe private compute or no? I don't know. How do we know? Is there any indication that they've gone out Airplane airline? Yeah, let's see , I'm gonna take a photo and I will airplane mode and then we'll try to make an edit to it. Okay, so here we are in airplane mode. This is the kind of estigator for plane. I was gonna say this is great I should have ECM open 'cause then you could follow along with me. I can't imagine how much time I'm gonna waste when I have this feature going through like four, five, six years of previous photos and making a little adjustments to them. I'm going to lose three weeks of prototypity for sure. I actually really like the three D effect that it does on the home screen, the box screen. I think that's really cool I think that was that was an interesting use while we're waiting. There was an interesting demonstration of hey, generative AI usually gets like a bad rap, but it's like hey, when you, add a wallpaper, we will actually suggest wallpapers we can generate for you based on not only the people and places in your photo role but your activities . And I have to say that I wouldn't not generate some of these stuff on my own. But if I saw this at a gallery of like eight, I would like maybe not get the boring like denim print thing that I was looking for and say, oh, actually, maybe that cute dog that I saw on my walk would be nice flying an airplane over a beat up. Thank you very much Interesting. So I just in did this experiment with she took a ooh, look at that. You really, you do get some interesting depth. Looks like a lenticular image . So these two are the same photo , the one on sorry. Okay, I will I will go to Discord now and show so this is the one that's a little bit more drab, the one on the left is actually the newer photo that I readjusted. The one on the right you were able to do both all of it local all of it and that was local. Yep. I have airplane mode turned on. That is interesting. And that's a completely different , you know, angle. Yeah. Exactly. I look at that brother. And so what I think you're seeing there, you can see that when I readjusted it, it took one of the people out of the photo . It sure did. Yeah, it sure did. That was the thing they mentioned during the keynote, yeah . And I kind of, this is one of the things that I like about this person here on your left disappears. Yeah, just disappears . But it's good, I feel that they focus it seems that it tries to pick out what the subject is and leave that alone as much as possible, which I like because a question. So behind this is the original. Behind this woman in the white skirt , it thinks there's this aluminum pole. Was that actually there or no? No, it's weird is that up. The only difference is that in real life that aluminum pole was closed off at the end, as opposed to being opened . It really was there. It really was there. So that means looking at other images in the , that's something to definitely test out. The F it knows that something was taken in a burst or there's like four pictures that were taken within like a thirty second spans. Oh, that's true because it was a live photo. Oh, it's a live photo. There you go. So you have multiple images. This is interesting. If you zoom in on that second image or not image second image, the first image of Michael, the one that was dead., you L canook kind of see the back inground. Like there's there's a woman like you can see the AI stuff if you look on the I guess the table that's on the tent there's then we go back here , is making this all up. That's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say no, but like look to the right of that . Where that woman is? Yeah, exactly. There's like a ghost woman that exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Looks like the Mona Lisa a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah that's funny that they kind of took because this was a live photo, it had multiple frames to choose from. So that helps it a lot, I think. That's really interesting. Interesting. And I have a new question to ask somebody . Yeah . Wow , lots of information here . This is what I'm most excited about now that it's out in people's hands is, you know, what are the capabilities? How can it work? You're watching MacBreak Weekly , the post W DC dissection with Christina Warren, Andy Anako and Micah Sergeant filling in per Adjacent Stone, who's still in Cubertino, although he has of course filed numerous articles already. It's six colors dot com. So if you want Jason's point of view, you can get it there . Membership means more with American Express Business Gold. Earn four times membership rewards points in your top two eligible spending categories every month, including eligible US advertising purchases in select media, and US purchases at restaurants, including take out and delivery . What are you waiting for? Get the card that flexes with your spending every month . Terms and points cap . Learn more at AmericanExpress dot com slash business dash gold, MX Business Gold Card built for business by American Express. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha rappuccino drink, or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel maybe? Or a white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks rappuccino drinks for ever you buy your groceries . Marvel Television's Wonder Man, an eight episode series are now streaming on Disney plus. A superhero remake, not exactly what we'd expect from an Oscar winning director. Exam. Simon Williams, audition for one of me. I'm gonna need you to sign this, assuming you don't have superpowers. I'll never worry Kennify anyone falling up. Malips to see you . Marvel Television's Wonder Man, all eight episodes now streaming only on Disney plus. On we go let's see, what else? A Golden Gate . Back OS twenty seven, they had the usual bad dad jokes about the crack design team and their VW microbus going up to the Golden Gate . It wasn't big bear. We thought the rumor was it was going to be big bear, but it's Golden Gate. I think that's a good name. Yeah, good name. About that? Not a lot of not a lot of changes in Mac OS . Yeah, mostly it's glass, right? Is the big changes? And of course, all of these features , this is the other thing that's very interesting. Apple's putting all these features in all of its platforms, right? I mean they didn't mention a lot about TV OS or watch OS a few new features, but I presume that all these features will appear. However , this would be a good time for the Vision OS segment . What do you see? What do you know? It's time doctor Vision Program . One of our listeners is playing with the developer beta on his vision pro Nightscape . And here's what it looks like when Siri is hovering in your vision on the left and then when you look at it, it wakes up . Pretty cool. Comes a more. I can think of so many movies in the nineties where that was like the evil presence that coming in and takes over the brain of the innocent child while they sleep and turns them into a murderer. I think it really Apple definitely showed that they are not giving up on Vision OS or Vision Pro, right? Yeah, it's nice. They did. Well, part of the story they're telling is that Siri is not just for one platform for everything, including Watch, but I thought it was really cool that one of the features they were showing off about Siri AI was not necessarily circle to search, but basically if there's something on your screen, you can have Siri basically explain this thing to you. And on Vision Pro it works with if all if you do is look at that thing and then ask Siri about the thing you're looking at without having to specif y or highlight it, that's a pretty good show off of what you could do with this kind of tech, particularly if it becomes more compact . Yeah . They even mentioned Vision Pro in the in the keynote there , there's a new environment. You can actually make your own environment, right? From panoramas, yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. And there's a new Thursmurk environment, which is Northern Lights . I bought a Thor Smirk when I got my first apartment. You know, it lasted a lot longer. You can get the IKEA shelf. Right. I believe. Yeah. The Thor's Merc environment . They also let's see, what else? They also announced , I think that's the big one is the Siri, right? The Siri Fleet Siri Orb . Yeah . I'm sure a lot of this a lot of what is new ends up getting it's tiny little things that have changed as part of the overall improvements and you know, there are probably a group of people out there that each time one gets read off, that little group of people goes, yeah, you you did my thing that I wanted , which is nice. It's a lot of checking boxes that needed to be checked , but we're kind of still discovering a lot of it. Yeah, yeah. Well, okay , that's your vision process . We're done talking vision . You can't say I didn't do it. That's all I'm saying. You get to keep our tax credit for another quarter. Yes. Vision Pro tax credit. Look, look, Vision Pro at least got to mention, right? Unlike, you know, the poor home pod, right? I really was surprised because I was too. There's still the rumor they're going to annou nce the new homepod this year or in Yeah, I mean and maybe maybe they do that in the fall, maybe they have new Apple TV's and something else, but it did it did seem to be like an interesting omission. It was either and I don't know which way to read this. It's either we are finally going to accept defeat and we are no longer pursuing this as strongly as we were, or we're hoping to have a better story in the fall around our various home things and what 's such a natural though to say Siri on the homepod . Exactly . Yeah . I mean, but you know what, it's it's that story they needed to tell today had to do with actually being able to see what's going on and see work with a visual interface. They feel as though like they're going to keep making those speakers one way or another. The speakers are making today will run this whole I'm guessing hopefully hopefully the sea tomorrow. When they do have this to show off, they're not going to be able to show it off unless they have a really, really good smart assistant. If they're trying to get people to spend three hundred dollars, four hundred dollars for a new speaker, it's not going to be with a current Seri. They can, but they can say like in the fall, well we have a brand new one and it's optimized for Siri AI and now here's stuff you can do with it especially with the things that you can do before. Yeah . Or like particularly asking questions like hey there',s a there's the four cameras inside my house. What room what room was my cat in before he decided to throw up on my bedspread? These are things that they needed to use that as an actual demo, but that was one of the things they're trying to remind us that home kit is home control is actually still a thing they're concerned about and these speakers are basically going to show that off. Once they have a series they can actually take advantage of it. I thought it was very amusing the cat fight that emerged between Mark German and John Gruber . Today on Daring Fireball, John Gruber said, Hey, well , Apple didn't say anything about using multiple models , you know, in Siri and it just shows you what people with information about the subject don't know everything . A clear shot at Mark German to which Mark Erman tweeted , uh They did and he showed in the code that in fact maybe you are going to be able to use new models or different models in Sy.ri Ia don't know exactly who wins this argument. It's just unseemly children. Just knock it off . Mommy and it's kind of like when Leno and Letterman were fighting with each other. It's like, but they're both like, they're both making thirty million dollars a year. They don't really have to do this. It feels genuine . It feels genuine. Like there is definitely like Gruber was pissed off he's complaining about Gruman before . I'm not saying yes. I don't read Gruber only because I don't want to like I don't want him to say something that I was going to write about and think, well I don't have to write about I shouldn't write about it now because Gruber's already done it internet well so don't have to do that. So it's fine. They're both great. We will get a report from the talk show which he's doing. Gentlemen, you're both pretty, you're both pretty . I hope that I only have one rose and this is the Penultimate episode. So one of you has to go to the island unfortunately . Gruber's headline from the Annals of People having knowledge of the matter . And he puts a question mark next to Mark German's reporting. Yeah. Oh, come on. that is a little pointed, let's say . And German, of course, posted on X a response where he said, well, it isn't the code. So maybe Apple didn't mention it anyway . It is actually of some interest. I like the idea of being able to use other models. Yeah. That is no I do, too. I mean, that will be the interesting thing, I think , to see what capabilities they're allowed to have access to and how much work they will have to do , you know, in order to do that because , you know, obviously I think Apple is going to in most many Apple users are going to be very happy to just be within the Apple ecosystem, but there are people who have workflows and who pay a lot of money for other subscriptions to other services and one thing is that the bigger question that I have, I mean, this is sort of related is okay , it's great that I can do all this stuff in Apple Mail or I can do this in Apple Calendar and that I can do it in other things, but how is it going to work in other applications? Because you know, like many people , my I do have, I do use Apple Mail , but it's not my preference. Most of my email is hosted in Gmail . There are a couple of there are other places, but other than iCloud, like I go to Apple Mail out of kind of default. I use fantastic al as my mail client or reclaim for some work things. At work, I obviously use outlook . You know, a lot of people use Google Docs. They're not going to be using pages and things like that. And you might use a different notes app. So that I think is going to be where the opportunities but also I think where the kind of swim lanes get a little bit confused, which is, okay, all these things they showed off are going to work great or hopefully great if you are completely in the Apple ecosystem. But most people aren't . And that I think is going to be the sign because one of the interesting things about some of the other AI companies has been they've made deals these other providers so that you can have a really good experience manipulating and using Google Docs even if you're using Cloud or Chat GBT, right? Like you don't have to just use Gemini. So I think will be the interesting thing is that will the Apple stuff work in those applications too? Will that be a thing that developers have to update? Will that be a thing that Apple will seek out? Or is we going to continue to kind of be bifurcated and Apple expects us all to live in this fantasy world where the only thing that anybody touches is safari and iMessage and the music app and mail and all that . Yeah. Actually, one of the things Apple did say regarding pricing is that some of the basic features will be free , but there will be limits, limits which you can extend if you have an Apple service subscription. They showed up , but I imagine Apple one would also apply to that. And then the question is, well, how much more can you extend it? And then if you do have , as I do, a Gemini Max account or whatever it's called , can that apply to it? Or can I use my Claude Max or my GPT plus account? I mean, this is all of, you know, these are all questions people who use AI will have . I use fast mail. So right, I hope this will all work with fastmail . My agentic solutions certainly do. I have MCP servers. Well, that's what I was going to say. Like the agentic solutions all do, right. Like you said, they've been interoperable and companies have either come out with MCP servers or they've done other things. And that I think will be the real kind of like sign for me, which is, is Apple actually going to be willing to, you know, pass off some of this stuff because and I'm fine if for Apple to say, look, we can't guarantee privacy and all of that if this is running on a server that's controlled by someone else. Like that is completely fine. But I don't want, for instance, Max Post ed on Twitter a kind of an example of how he was able to use Siri to add all domains from a certain all emails from a certain domain to his junk folder and it did it. That's great . Will I have to do that in Apple Mail or that be something I can instruct Siri to do in Gmail or in fast mail or something else, right? The other question the bumper that comes up for me is safety . So I can't ask Chinese models about Tianm en Square . I'm wondering if I'll be able to ask Apple models like to read this fine print from the Apple keynote. Like what things will apple by the way, Claude was able to totally fable tot,ally read it. It's one of Apple's classic wallet features slides. And here's a few of the things you want me to transcribe it. And I said, yes, and so in fact, it is transcribing that fine print. But Apple is going to be very saf ety aware . This is something that frustrates a lot of people with other models is you know, it thinks this is nudity or something. This is not I wonder when we're going to start seeing some of those gates . And it can be very capricious too, where something that as they keep updating the models like behind the scenes, like something that use just part of your workflow, suddenly, I'm sorry, I'm not, I'm not allowed to do that. I've got a guardrail against that can help you create a birthday card instead that no, I really wanted you to organize my mailbox, but okay there's so this is this is why it's so interesting that these are such early days . All the stuff that gets demo noed m,atter who's demoing, no matter what company it is, it's all predicated on when you make a request, it actually works. Okay? It doesn't eighty percent of the time almost won't do The magical transition for me with with certain certain AIs, particularly Gemini was when I found myself thinking, I don't know if it can do this, but I'm going to give it a try anyway to see what happens because I technically I tend to have really good luck. Right now the big gest frustration is like Ristine was saying, it's like it's the Gemini has the daily brief that they announced a couple of weeks ago and it works great to be but the thing is like it only works like with my Gmail account that's associated with this particular Gemini account. It doesn't even work with like the multiple Gmail inboxes I have for different parts of my business. It would be great if I could have it work with my outlook but it, absolutely can't. And at this stage of the technology, we might argue that it's good that it can't, because who knows what it would be able to mess up? And who knows if we can just trust a nation to do that way. But as soon as that's what makes this one feature as good as it is and I'm talking about like just this morning, it's in the daily brief, oh by the way, your friends are organizing this are organizing this event and they calling you up because they're maybe Andy's Gmail address will work better for contact with him. Like, oh, I did not even know that. That's great. Thank you very much for notifying me about this. I will action on this immediately. But the thing is, if it were attached to Outlook, I would not have waited like a week for this to actually happen. So it's not as useful thing as it could possibly be. two hundred and sixty three features in that tiny fine print feature wall, Andy , it was completely transcribed by Fable , and it says, by the way, handy for show notes or MacBreak weekly rundown, you want a version group by platform, IOSIPS MacBook . Do you filter just to the audio podcast relevant items? And then it says, do you want to open it in BB Edit or in Google Drive , it's pretty Fable's pretty helpful. This is the kind of thing people use AI regularly expect. Yeah, exactly. And so this is coming to a phone near you is pretty exciting it. does If, if it doesn't if it does, yeah, I mean, like , I mean, it would be great if for instance, if you could have taken that image and then in the Notes app asked the same kind of query, right? Like you pulled up the Serie thing and said, Hey, you know, show me that whole thing. I don't know why this is can't. I imagine it could. I don't know. I mean, I mean, maybe it can't. I don't know. It just I think it'll come down to the modalities and how we're used to using things . That's that, I think is the interesting opportunity, but also a challenge that Aval has right now, as I kind of mentioned before is that again, like people, we've had years to use these tools. And for most people, the Apple tools have not been part of the conversation because they've been bad . And so it'll be interesting to see, okay, well how does , you know how, do we get used to invoking those tools and you know, within the Apple ecosystem without, you know, opening up another app to do it? Yeah . Apple did not hesitate to say not available in the EU and China. During the video saying that and then they put out a press release that was even more specific. It's due to the digital marketing. DNA. I love that. And yeah, and Jos gave a special like briefing to I think some members of the press explaining further that how frustrated they were Google Google's in the same sort of boat with these basically this is this is one area in which I can't agree with the EU like wanting to expand interoperability because they're basically asking for something that will require Apple intelligence to not be secure to basically give the give access to these give exactly give access the transports to all of this information to any other AI that wants to use it. In principle, it's a good idea but it can't work. Google is the intern ational version of the Gruber German's split because the EU responded. EU regulators on Tuesday slammed Apple for blaming EU tech rules for its decision saying Apple had that the EU had rejected the company's request for an eighteen month exemption from its obligation. That was cheeky. Yeah . That was ambitious . So the decision not to roll out Siri AI in the EU is Apple and Apple's only says the EU. Apple was simply unable to develop interoperable this is all about interrupt, right? Apple does not want to be interoperable. Apple was simply unable to develop interoperability solut ions that meet essential EU privacy and security standards. Instead of trying to find a suitable compliance solution, Apple simply made a request to the European Commission to be exempted from their obligations for eighteen months. That is not an option, says the EU. No , you can't do it you silly company . So the good news is that most of their processes are based on we'll sit down and we'll talk about this and we'll try to work this out as opposed to nope, we've created this rule. You're going to comply with this rule. Goodbye, if you don't like it. Again, go get into the bakery business. Don't try to make a phone operating system. I hope that at some point they're going to both with both pressure from Google and Apple, hopefully they will amend their opinions and their pretty clear they can't comply with this. Did n't. The way they did it at the keynote to me looked like they're hoping European Apple users will complain to their members of Congress and say they're not hey what? And we want this. Again, a full court press, they're not being they're not being coy about this. They're not saying we in a statement to a reporter who specifically asked about this question it's like, no, we are making this we're a full throated like part of this keynote this keynote event in which they removed they did, not talk about a whole bunch of stuff they could have talked about, but they found that they had a minute to insert this thing of here's the reason why you're not getting this because we absolutely can't. Here is why and we're going to put a special thing on the newsroom. We're going to be again, we're going to make one of our principal pieces of the management team available to talk about this to anybody who wants to listen to it. They did not quietly. They did say China as well, but I think that 's a different thing. Yeah. It's pretty clear that that's an issue of having to have Chinese models and they don't. Yeah, it's probably data sovereignty thing too, I would imagine . Right. Like servers in China and all that. Right, which especially since it's not just their servers, right? They're using another company's ser toovice. That's even more complicated. But yeah, no, I mean, with Andy, I mean, they've saying it with their full throat, which it's unfortunate for the EU market, but I also understand it. And I am totally onle App side's in this case . Like if given the two opportunities, like I feel like there are I understand the point of what the DMA is trying to accomplish. I don't know if that's something that I think is for anyone's Apple may also be hoping for intervention from the US government because the US government has complained to the EU . These companies are for us to regulate, not you. In fact, the latest one is you can't have you shouldn't have any bans on social media for kids under sixteen . Even though many states in the United States do , they're telling the EU and other countries no you can't do that, which is but yeah, exactly. They actually had a new developer post about here's how to comply with Texas' new age of verification law and now that because that goes into effect that went into effect on the fourth, I think . So I they mean , know how to do this. They had no idea the infrastructure, they don't like it, but that's the easiest path forward for them. To at this point for Siri AI , arguing and basically saying I'm digging your heels is absolutely the easiest path for us because who what do they lose for the next six months? Nothing because Siri AI is not going to be shipping until any time in the fall . And then that gives them a lot of time to either escalate, escalate, escalate, and then basically draw the lines and figure out how to solve this problem. So I'm glad they're finding the fight as ardently as they are instead of doing the Google thing, which is say, yeah, we're just gonna keep doing what we do and hope things work out . Well, but even in the Google thing, I mean , there are features that are not available in the EU for the exact same reasons, right? So I mean, there are a lot of the AI models like this actually becomes a problem if you are, say, an AI scientist who works at a frontier lab who is based in a country where there are laws that prevent you from accessing some of the models that you work on . So ask me how I know about that. But they',re you know, but and so this isn't just a unique apple problem but I feel like they are certainly because they're such a big share of consumer voice and they do. I mean, the EU in their press release were like, oh twenty seven percent of total sales are from you know,, the EU and I, was like, yeah, and and I don't know how much that matters, right? Like I don't think Apple's going to get to up in their entire way of operating just to try to appease, you know, that customer base. I think if the opportunity is make this available or not, that's that's what it will be. No sign of John Turnis , although it was very nice that they gave Tim Cook the opportunity to kind of at the end have a little coda and say goodbye. Tim before the event posted a pretty funny video on X . Of course, Tim's signature greeting is good morning . And he decided I guess to get a bunch of celebrities suggest how he should say that good morning. Hey Tim , I think you ought to tap into your countryside and say something like Good morning, y'all. That's my favorite Siri voice. More Eagle. Good morning. Good morning , flashbacks from the Google Pixel event last year. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Jane Christie Kim . Good morning, Tevin Shakes isn't good. Speaking of Matthew Reese. Good morning . Why don't you just tell me ? Are these all apple stars , there's a whoopy, whoopy. Good morning. Heracy Ford Paris came work . That was a ghost . Good morning. Plurbus is morning. That was morning. I'm gonna say what? Life is your oyster man. You got to go pick it. You can do it all. Thanks for the ideas. I think I'll say it the way I always say it. Good morning. I love that. I think that's a really sweet little piece. And the last one was nice. Tim really needed that shot in the arm. It's okay, man, you can do it, man. I believe you gotta set his goals a little bit higher from now on that being the CEO of one of the most successful four point five trillion dollar companies in the world . All right, well, I think it was a I have to say, I think it was a good keynote. I think Apple did what it needed to do . I think the real issue, it's all going to come down to delivering. And we won't know anything about that till maybe this fall. But if they can deliver on what they showed , Apple will, I think, in many ways, become the most used AI of all. Yeah. Pre installed on every on the most phone that sells to what sixty to eighty percent of people in the United States as it is. In the words of Oprah, a billion phones in people's pockets y,'all. Most of those billion forms or the exactly or the one or the one bought last year, yeah, I'm sorry for all the phones bought last year as we said. That's because it's on device we should say in all fairness, that's because it's on device model and you have to have , you a know lot, of horsepower and a lot of ramp. That also means that like that quarter for the next for the new iPhone is going to be something spectacular . If it because it means that a lot of the people who are normally on like a five year upgrade cycle, maybe maybe they'll say after three years it's time for me to update. Last night I was inventory like all of my Apple stuff, most of which was kind of like still working fine but kind of end of life and thinking that okay, you know what ? My M one MacBook Pro is still working great, but this might be the year that despite that, I will simply buy an M five because this would be a good year to buy it. I've gotten good I've gotten good service out of it. I could wait another year or two, but why wait to get Appleell Iigntence and deciding like maybe I don't want to upgrade my iPad because I'm going to have to buy the twelve hundred dollar one to get one that uses this. So maybe I will just keep that going. All these decisions are going to be made by a lot of people and there's going to be a lot Apple's going to have to stay in the quarterly call like this was and this quarter was a was a tough compare with last year given that we had significant tailwinds in the upgrade cycle with people replacing three and four year old phones to get access to Siri AI . Your picks of the week coming up next. You're watching MacBreak Weekly. Andy and Ico Jason's got the week off, but Mikea Sargent is here. It's really nice to have you. Mike. Good to see you . And I should tell everybody, watch IOS today, which will be out later today, right? Actually, it'll be on Thursday. Thursday . Yeah. So watch it in a couple of days because that will have a full rundown of Mola features in the iPad and iOS devices . And of course Christina Warren , GitHub developer relations. Ryan Reynolds here from It Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for fifteen dollars a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities, so do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mint mobile dot com slash switch. Upfront payment of forty five dollars for three month plan, equivalent to fifteen dollars per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Feel terms at mint mobile. com for your pics of the week. I have a pick that has nothing to do with Apple , but I'm going to do it anyway . I found a site I really like called Absurdly Optimized . And basically his whole thing is absurdly optimizing stuff. In this case, the absurdly optimized ready. Yes, I saw this site. I loved this so much. I loved everything about this. A systematic investigation of acid based neutralization, CO two production kinetics, gluten inhibition, and the Mayard reaction as applied to a one hundred twenty five gram flour batter with an interactive stoichiometric calculator that adapts to whatever is in your refrigerator. Now that looks like a pretty damn fine pancake . I got to say, I've used chemistry and it's working great for me. You can slide it very everywhere from mild to very tangy . You can change the fluffiness from French crep to Swedish pancake to ricotta souffle and you can scale the servings. So and choose the ingredients that you want to put in. So a very nice sight. I am going to go make pancakes right after the show. Heck yeah. This guy is wild. He also talks about the perfect bagel and many other things absurdly optimized, which is at actually is it absurdly optimized. com. I don't know what they are. Looks like it absurdly optimized absurdly optimized. com. Yes, that's it. And he talks about coffee , kyoto glazed salmon , towel absorbency . And but I think the best, the absurdly optimized penkin . And ako, your pick of the week. I had a little bit of emotional whiplash yesterday. I took lots of pictures at the at the Pride parade at my nearby town on Sunday copied like three hundred pictures off of my SD card to external SSD . Then after the copy was complete, I deleted those files off of the SSD, off of the SD , and then discovered that no they didn't actually copy at all. I never erased my SD That was stupid . But and so basically it made me look and find a really good data recovery tool called Photoreck , go to cgsecurity. org to get it. It's actually a command line thing. You can install it with Brew. I chose it because there were way too many like really bad apps on the app store that essentially take an open source open f sreeource software project, put like a really stupid like UI wrap around it and then try to get five bucks or ten bucks for it and then does God knows what else. This is a free open source tool that has a really nice text based graphical user interface. So basically you have menus you can just navigate with the arrow keys and it just does a very, very linear job of which volume that's attached you want to check. Great . What's the one of these three formats is it in? This, great. Okay, where do you want to store the stuff? Great, okay, I'll start looking, I'll start grinding. And it found like every single file that obviously the tip obviously the tip, the tip is, of course, you don't copy anything to something that you just want to undelete stuff so that it won't be written over. It undeleted everything that was on that card that but didn't undelete those pictures because that's when I found out that , oh, I only thought that I deleted it. I actually did not. I was so upset by the mistake that I thought I'd made that I proceeded to solve the problem that I did not have. But I did learn about a very, very useful tool that is now installed thanks to Brew that I can recommend all of you. It's a obviously it's called photoreck. So you might think, oh so it's just for photos and videos. No, there are like four hundred different file types that we'll find and recover. And in every case, it wasn't like it was, you know, random number Recover, it was actually like they had the filenames correct and they had the extensions correct. And I was just able to double click and open them. So free software, really well done, photo reck. The best problems to solve are those you don't have, Andy. Exactly. I don't regret not having done the stupid thing and not having lost three hundred photos. You learned something though. I learned something. Exactly at the end of the day, what did you learn today? Sun like Christina Warren pick of the week. Okay, so this one is actually really funny and it doesn't even really work anymore, but I just this is also I just when I saw this I know what you're gonna say I love this Okay so it's called Chipotle Max and it's spelled CHI POT LA Max. And basically what people did is you know how people are putting support AI support chat bots on all kinds of websites ? Well, they're not doing a real good job of protecting their endpoints on that. And so it turns out that with open code, which is like an open source and really fantastic coding harness, you can take advantage of those inpoints from places like Chipotle or Lowe's or Sephora or Nordstrom or Ikea or Expedia . And you can use their compute . And again, most of these companies have now kind of they're closing these loopholes, but it's an open source project. There are people who've added pull requests for adding in other providers to. I just think it's a really funny idea. So it doesn't work anymore 'cause I saw this and I thought this is brilliant. Yeah, it's brilliant. I mean, it's not affiliated with Chipotle, they'll probably sue us worth it. Worth it worth it. Yeah, basically what happened? But what's really funny about this is that it was a couple months ago that someone was able to, I guess, reverse engineer the back end proxy. And then this guy just basically took that comb,ined with it open code and was like, Yep, we're just gonna put this together . Anyway, I look , like I said, it's airing out now. Well, when I used it last week, it did work and I was cracking up. And I just, I love this sort of ingenuity. If companies are going to outsource their support this way and I'll protect their endpoints, then I say , yeah. Yeah. There were a lot of tweets , you know, last month and the month before with people going, I'd like a burrito with salsa and give me a Python script for reversing a link. Exactly. Exactly. Well, that was the thing, right? Well that was the thing is that people were figuring that out that you could like talk to these chatbots and realize, oh, I can actually just get ruled Shib T here or clot or whatever. And somebody just happened to put it all in one harness. And I just I don't know, I love that ingenuity. I should mention for those of you in the club that Micah's media time is coming up. This is going to be great. I'm very excited about this. So first of all, join the club. If you're not a member of the club, the club members only got our coverage of the keynote . And by the way, Apple still took down our private YouTube . So it's my guess that from now on keynotes, at least with Apple are going to have to just be watch alongs. We did put it in the club though and we do a lot of special programming for the club. You can add free versions of all the shows twit club twit . You get special programming you don't do anywhere else. You also get access to the Club Twit Discord, which is, as you can see, a great place to hang out. So Mikeah , you know, noticed that Stacy's book club is only every third month or every other month and very kindly said, what if we did in the alternate months Micah's media club? Because not everybody wants to read a book. So we had a vote. We had a poll . You had some very good suggestions and what is going to be the subject of the media club? What movie or TV show? First one we're gonna do is the fifth element love that movie. Everybody's gonna watch the fifth element. We'll talk about it on the show and bring your multi passes . Exactly, bring your multi pass . What got second place was animated episodes. And so I will , as I mentioned, we're going to basically just add a new one to the list whenever people vote . And so I'm hoping that that'll end up being the next one including margin the monorail, the class monol, Jurassic Bark from Futuream Dra and a really good episode of Rick and Morty called Bit al Recall. This month, june nineteenth, two PM Pacific, I'm coming because I love this movie, the fifth Element Media Club with Micah . then And we also have a book for Stacy's Book Club , which you'll find if you look on the club Twitch . Slow gods by Claire North. Yeah, slow Gods, I've already downloaded the audio book of that. It sounds really good. It sounds really good . Chris Markwat's photo time is going to precede Micah's Media Club. So we're going to have a double header on the nineteenth. Lots of good stuff. If you're not in the club, it is a great way to support what we do here , independent podcasting with obligation to any company. We represent you, the users. And I think that's really important , especially in this media climate , but we do need your support to do it. Twitter. tv slash club Twitter. So Micah, you get to do a pick of the week. Yeah. My pick of the week, if you are a word nerd or a public speaking nerd or a theater kid or one of the above, you may like this poem written in nineteen twenty two called The Chaos meant to display the chaos that is the English language gi,ven the fact that it's essentially three languages stacked on top of each other. We just got an example. A number of people in the chat said is photorecw RECK. There you go. Or RECK . Well, it is RAC REC , but so this is what? Are these all hominyms? What are you? Yes, many of them are homonyms . Some of it is just a matter of , you know, reading two words very near one another . You can give us a dramatic reading of at least a couple of verses here. Dearest creature in creation studying English pronunciation , I will teach you in my verse sounds like corpse, core, horse, and worse , I will keep you Susie busy , make your head with heat grow dizzy . Tear in eye, your dress you'll tear . Quer, fair seer, hear my prayer. These are the opposites of hominins. Yeah , they sound same . They are spelled the same but are pronounced completely differently. There's worse . I did not know that this is one of my favorite lines, say expecting fraud and trickery, daughter, laughter , and terpsickory . It looks like it should be Terpsicore, but it's Terpsicory. Terpsickory. Yes. Branch Ranch measles top sales aisles . Oh Nissil's Similes, Revils. This would be a good this would be a good test announcer test if we can do this. God, I love it so much. I love it. Wow. This is great. I've never heard of this. I hadn't either. I heard about it the first time the other day and someone had posted a sort of truncated version of it with the easier ones and I ended up looking it up and seeing, oh, it's got even more so hard. I was just eating it up. One anemone Balmoral, kitchen lichen laundry laurel, Balmoral , Gertrude German Wind and Wind, Beaukind Kindred cue, mankind . It's so good. It's delightful. The Chaos by Gerard Nolstrinite eight hundred of the worst irregularities in English spelling and pronunciation for some night am are, for others, absolute pleasure . Wow . There are very famous announcer tests, which are very hard to do when they used to in the old days of radio, you know, you'd walk in saying and, I want to be a booth announcer and they'd say, Well, read this kid . Read this and there's somewhere you're meant to read it in one breath. Others that are based on pronunciation, some that are based on confidence. I love, I think they're fantastic. Yeah. So much cool. The chaos . Mr. Micah Sergeant, we don't get enough of you. I'm so glad that you stopped by today. It was great to be the keynote with you yesterday . Catch IOS today on Thursday and get the complete update on what Apple announced for IOS and iPad OS . And of course, we didn't talk about shortcuts, but the vibe coding shortcuts, I can't imagine Rosemary Orchard is being more excited about anything than that. Absolutely. M peopleore getting more access to something that she very much cares about is awesome. The democratization of shortcuts. She's the absolute king of shortcuts. It's very much worth watching that show on Thursday. Thank you, Andy Anako. The website is up getting traffic or people visiting getting lots of traffic. I'm very, very grateful. I'm a little bit surprised. I had I had very I had a lot of time over the past year to think about what numbers am I going to am I going to have to reach before I think that, okay, you know what? This was not a total waste of time. I'm not just doing this for my own like entertainment and those were kind of blown past like within like thirty eight minutes. So I wish I could send that message back to the Andy from like August of last year who said, stick with it. I know it's a lot of work, but there are people are interested in this and they will actually read the. st Souff thank you very much. I posted like the third thing this week this morning. I've got a couple more that are that are that are on the on deck before I do like the big post about WBC, unfortunately, I have to like check to make sure I know what I'm talking about before I do that last year. Get tech and musicals and opera. And by the way, did you love Pink's opening for the Tony Awards? That was oh heck yes. Yeah, that was . With wire work. Anything with Renvald's wirework, as soon as it opens and there's a woman dressed as Peter Pang hanging upside down. I went pink. Yeah, exactly, you know. We saw her in Vegas . She flies in from the back. It's like , girl, careful. Doing that wire works. She loves doing that wirework. I love pink. So that was a lot of fun. They need her on Chicago because when she did that, when she did the number at the end, I was like, okay, she'd be perfect. She's not casting. Like I know that she did that because her daughter really wants to make it. I'm like, okay, you can still be a NEPO mom, but like actually please like you know, do the shrunk casting because she'd be fantastic. Yeah, right. They start CBS start posting the musical numbers from the show. It's like that's the reason why the Tony's is probably my one don't want to miss it like award show every year because it is one hell of a great piece of entertainment. I didn't know any of the shows this year, so I didn't Schmigodon was like doon. I knew Apple was an Apple TV did they win? They did win that best musical. And in fact, they thanked Apple for canceling them, which was very funny. That's funny. That's actually really funny. Yeah. I know Amy Webb's produced chess was nominated. I didn't think it won, but it did not. It did not. Have a great run with that. It's still on Broadway doing very well . So yeah, very nice. I didn't realize they made Rocky Horror Picture show into a Broadway show . That's crazy. Yeah, and it's doing well. It's one of the few that's doing well. I mean, Andy can speak to this more. This is kind of a weird year for Broadway at least in schools because two of them closed before the Tony's even happened. And a couple others have already announced that their closings has just been kind of an off year, but the Tony's itself is like one of those kind of really fun camp messes. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a Broadway fan, huge Broadway fan, but this year not best, not its best year. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Christina. Christina, I didn't even mention of, course, developed a relations at GitHub, love having yan. We appreciate you filling in, filling that empty seat No longer empty. It's her seat. Now the Christina Warren honorary chair. No, it's still it is still Alex's seat, but I'm doing I'm doing what I can to bring things here and I've been having a great time. Thank you all for being so welcome watching really fun. Hard to see if any Alex crept into the key