Closing Remarks and Outro

Expedia. Hey you, what you up to? Mindlessly scrolling? Looking at other people's holidays. Mallorca, Canary Islands? Okay. What about you? What places would you go? Expedia is the one place you go to go places. Your trip can earn rewards which you can use towards your next eligible stay. Soon people will be scrolling your holiday pics. You'll be their friend's friend, but with rewards. What are you waiting for? Expedia. The one place you go to go places. Terms apply. Unscripted, unfiltered, unafraid, welcome to the Macro Podcast. My name is Michael Simon, and I am joined by my colleague Jason Cross. Good morning. And our producer, Roman Loyola. Hoy there . This is episode number nine hundred and eighty-five. And today , with less than two weeks to go, it's part one of our WWDC preview extravaganza thingy. Um, we're gonna save iOS for next week because that's obviously bigger and more interesting. So this week's all gonna be uh uh about macOS 27 hardware, maybe Macs, and whatever else comes up related to that. So if you're a Mac fan, this is this is the show to listen to. Then we're gonna have a this week in Apple History and we will close with our comment corner. Speaking of comments, you can contact us through Blue Sky Facebook Threads, search for Macworld, look for the Blue Mouse logo. Um send an email to podcast at Macwell.com, send an email to one of us, comment under a video, comment under a post, just get us your comments , get us your thoughts, and we will talk about um talk about them on a future show. If they're WWDC related, we'll talk about them next week. So if you really want to be on the show, send Roman something um top ical . Um I wrote this down. I forgot to tell you . But before we start, did you guys see the video for the Ferrari Luce. I saw that it was released, but I didn't watch the video. They they announced the car a little while ago. Um and Johnny Ive had his whole like thing so like they showed like the inside so apparently he was responsible for all the all the internal stuff. And he had his typical like, you know, it's tactic tactile and you know, we we we considered all of the the the materials that we use and the smoothness of the so whatever. But but we hadn't seen the car until um well I think it was yesterday that I that it came out. So there's like a little video and there's a bunch of like not quite reviews, but people got to see it and you know. Right. Any thoughts? 'Cause I have some. It well I mean it it's interesting that Ferrari is making its first uh uh all electric vehicle. It's all it's right, all electric. It looks it I want to say it doesn't look like a Ferrari. Like it doesn't look like a Ferrari. Like if you didn't absolutely say that. If you took the badges off of it and so I mean it looks like an exotic sports car, but not it does. The front end is so weird with this like cut in where the lights are that it it doesn't have a very Ferrari that slope to the front end. It it it's got a cut in when the lights are and it cuts in behind the lights on the hood and's stuff it just not Ferrari like and of course it's it's almost half a million dollars like this is it's over half six hundred million euros and if you convert it to dollars it's like six hundred or something. So I mean it has uh it's got all the stuff you'd expect from uh from spending half a million dollars on a car, right? Yeah, I guess it's got you know, the the doors can't have the doors open normally. Right. That just right.' Thevey got to open this back thing. Or like this. Like what was the thing from Silicon Valley? Did the did your doors open like this? Or like this? Like right? Like that's how you know it's a cool car. And and it's it's other than that, it's got all the Ferrari stuff, right? You know if you saw one, if you didn't know the Ferrari logo, if you saw one just driving next to you on a on a highway, you'd be like, oh that that's an interesting look ing car. There's nothing so like once in my life I drove behind like like a like a Ferrari like a like a high end like Ferrari test testa testa roba or whatever they're called. Testerosa. Yeah. And you know like, when you see that car , you know it's a gigantically expensive, ridiculously fast, super duper sports car, and like you know, you can't afford it, but you can look if I saw this thing driving next to me, I I would I would notice it. Yeah. I'd be like, Hey, that that's cool. I would not think it was I would think it was an electric car. Like electric cars have a have a look. I don't know why, but they definitely have a look. Like Teslas have a look. Uh the the Nissan Leaf or the Honda whatever. Like you can tell electric cars. Most of them, yeah. They they most of them everyone kind of Right. There's like a there's like a a a certain look to this one has Ionic five looks like a good example too. However, I would not guess it was half a million dollars. I wouldn't guess it was It's hard to tell. Oh after after it shouldn't be. Oh, like a Bugatti or anything else. After it's a after it's uh a hundred grand, like w uh anything north of that, what are they gonna do? Like how are you gonna make it outside it look expensive? Make it look like a sports car. Like a like a Ferrari sports car. I think it does look like a sports car. I just don't think it looks like a Ferrari. I just think it looks like some other brand. So my thought when I was looking at the video was that and I don't know how much influence Johnny I have had over the design of the outside of probably probably very little. But if if that ex like say the exact car, I mean forget about all the technical engine stuff. Put like a regular EV engine and a regul, you know, a four liter whatever. If that was an Apple car that was like seventy grand , they would sell a It's really it's really impractical in terms of like it's a small sport y like sedan type you know it's it's I think an Apple car would be a little bigger, roomier . But I'm saying like the general design and the general look of it. It doesn't look like a super high end sparling, but it it is attractive. And I think people are reacting like there's been a lot of negative criticism because when you think Ferrari, you don't think that. You just I or there's a certain shape. Yeah. Um like uh the the I I think Johnny Ive what the parts they showed earlier, which was like the steering controls, not the whole steering wheel, but the steering controls and the like heads up display and and everything. I think that's all he had inside stuff. Chairs or anything, like any of that stuff. But yeah, there's there's a very there's a very Ferrari look. You mentioned the test , which got super famous 'cause of Miami Vice, but had those big fins on the sides. But everything they have there's like a slope to it. And there's that saying when with car design where it's like you want your brand to have an identity. Like you could put a blanket over a Porsche And anybody could walk up to that blank and know there's a Porsche under that blanket. Absolutely. Right. Like that. Like even though 9-11s have changed a lot, they've been very distinct over the years, and there's been other models, 959s and stuff. Porsche has a shape and your brain knows it. And it's that. And and Ferrari's kind of like that, at least with their consumer vehicles, right? And and I if without the badges I would not think this is a Ferrari. It's okay to to be different. But there's charging for Ferrari prices. If they came out and said like this is $150,000. Like I'm not going to afford it anyway, but it would bring down the price considerably and it would be more like this is a different thing we're doing. Right. But they're targeting the same audience with the same price tag. Oh yeah. With the design that just doesn't seem like it's it's for that crowd. I'm sure they'll still sell them. It's it's Ferrari. It's the Ferrari is like like Apple. Like, you know, there's a core group of people that are gonna rush out to buy it because they have to buy it. Yeah, it also very much looks like its own thing enough that if somebody uh it i if it gets if it gets enough press, you will see it and you'll somebody will go, Oh, that's that electric Ferrari and immediately know you have half a million dollars to blow on a car. It does. Although someone compared it to a a Nissan leaf that apparently came in a similar color a couple of years ago and it it looked like a couple of years. There's this weird thing where cars have stopped doing metallic colors. Yeah. Glossy are like super matte. Yeah, super matte on es on the on the high end cars. So anyway, yeah. No, no, we veered off but related. That's a Ferrari. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Right. I I kinda thought Apple car and you know, all right, yeah. Let's let's move on. I there's probably not gonna be a car at WWDC. We with a bunch of when we were waiting for one. I feel confident predicting no Apple Car. For like five years there, we thought maybe there'll be a one more thing and they'll ru they'll they'll drive out this Apple car, but yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, oh yeah. Prolybab not. Yeah. Like like they've they've got to be starting to roll out, no pun intended, like all that CarPlay stuff that they promised a couple of years ago. CarPlay Ultra? Uh yeah. Well like Hyundai announced their I don't know, the new five or six or something. One of their new electric cars is gonna have it. Kia's Kia, one of their new cars is gonna have it. Okay. I don't know when they're arriving, but they are slowly kind of trickling out. Um, but yeah, I doubt they mention that at all. I'd love to know. We'll never know. Like how far how far they got on the car project and was it did they ever have any intention of making an actual car or were they just kind of exploring the idea of maybe possibly doing it one day? Because there was rumors like there's a test track and like look, I saw an alpha car driving around. Like mate, so I w like we don't know. There was really good solid information about the number of people they had working on it. And it was like a thousand people. They were not just they weren't just exploring it in a in a CAD design or something. They were gung ho about it. And all these people who were working on it, they ended up in different places working on different things. Uh not to interrupt, but I I I know somebody who worked on Apple Car, but they're not allowed to tell me what they what they would do if they did. So and he quit more years. He quit because it was such a disaster. He quit Apple or he quit the project? He quit Apple. Oh. And then he went to go work for Apple. He signed an NDA when he when he when he left. I know they can still come after you. Then he went to go work for Amazon and their satellites. I I'll ask them. I'll ask them so . Okay. Uh enough car talk. On to the topic of the day, which is WWDC and specifically Mac and Mac OS 27. I guess we'll start. Roman, this is your territory. Where do you want to start? Hardware or software? Okay. Sure. You know, Apple sometimes releases Mac hardware during WWDC, like they do the Mac Studio and stuff. But this year is so unpredictable with the supplier uh issues and stuff. So we don't know if we're gonna get hardware. It doesn't look like it. The what we're waiting for is the M five Mac Mini , the M five Mac Studio, including the M five Ultra Chip and the M5 I Mac . That's like the only thing that's not like a fall or 2027 thing. It's funny because normally what you would do is for these things that are they're all chip and chip upgrades. Like none of these are the things that have like display improvements and all that other stuff are all coming later or next year or something. And usually when that happens, you can look at uh the supp ly to see when they're about to release. You can say, oh, you know, short they're in short supply of these things. They're not refreshing the supply of Macminis because they're about to release the new model. They're letting the the inventory run down. We're in a place now where the fact that inventory is running down really isn't indicative of them holding back. Yeah. So you can't really tell. They it they could absolutely have them there or not, and the we all our normal indicators aren't there. Um unless an FCC filing leaks. And that's that could At the um at the earnings call, when was it? Uh April, end of April? Yeah. Couple a couple of weeks ago. Tim Cook said that the Mac Mini specifically, because someone asked about, you know, like where is it? Because he can't buy it anywhere. Amazon doesn't have it. It doesn't have it. And he said like it's gonna be a while. It's gonna be constrained for a couple months. So that indicates that there isn't like a whole stock of M fives just waiting to ship. So at least an update, it's it's going to be in short supply. It doesn't use different RAM. The M five doesn't use different RAM than the M4 or anything like that. So they could do this change, but th it's gonna be in short supply. I wanna know, do you think they're gonna call out the success of the Mac Neo, the MacBook Neo? Are they gonna I know they're never gonna give us a number like we've already sold five million, you know, the things we want here Right. But are they going to call that out by name and and talk about what a smash hit it's been? Yeah. I think so. I think that they could have a little Tim Cook has his little thing at the beginning where he kind of talks about how wonderful Apple Apple's first I mean I think they'll definitely mention it as like this thing that we did and there's so much excitement around it. And yeah, I think they could mention something about, you know , we've had more first time Mac users than ever thanks to Mac company or something like that. Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. I would think that like as part of introducing Mac OS twenty seven, they would say there are more new Mac users than ever, thanks to the the hit of our My question is, are there going to be any macOS twenty seven specific features for the Neo ? Like would they do it Oh I can't imagine like what could that be, do you think? Like something education related, something management, something Yeah, that but they you know, like temporary users that disappear after a certain like a set number of time or something. I don't know. And they would like not they would make that work on the NEO and not on the NOT. Yeah I guess that would be I guess there's not reason for that. Yeah that's what I'm trying to think of. Like the NEO doesn't have any hardware that they could exploit that would n't run on something else. So have a I like I guess a feature that is clearly inspired or made for the Neo, but does is part of Mac OS twenty seven as a as a as a whole. Aaron Powell They'll probably they uh they announced earlier this thing where they've they're bundling together some of the I forget what they called it, but it it's bundling together some of their management software things which are in different areas into one Mac enterprise thing. So the Mac already has a bunch of that stuff where that it's already for the education market and for big businesses and stuff about like making new users that are managed and being able to delete them and or wipe their Macs and all that other kind of stuff and track them down and all that other they they kind of already have that. It wouldn't surprise me if they had more improvements to it. But that's n even when they do that, that's not the kind of thing they talk about during a WWDC keynote. So we may hear more about that. That may be like in a session, like later in the week, there's a session about all the Mac management stuff coming this year. Um I I already we've we've heard stories of school districts and stuff like that who are just like gonna buy a thousand of these or whatever. Um where was it? Kansas Kansas City or something? Some school district like just transferred their entire um yeah school district they announced plans to to move to the Roman Kansas school district I don't even know what to search for but you try to find what school district I think it was Kansas City or or Missouri somewhere out of the same Missouri, but that's a good idea . Yeah. Yeah, it happened last week last week. So that's probably not gonna be any MacBook updates at all. Like even if there were supply chain issues, like we're not expecting the MacBook Air was just updated, the MacBook Pro was just updated, MacBook Neo just came out in March. Like there's nothing new there. But the Mac Studio is much like the Mac Mini . You know, waiting. It still has an M3 Ultra and an M4 Max, and we're still waiting for that to arrive. They've chopped off like all of the memory options for the studio. Like if you want one, you can get 96 gigabytes of Nets . Yeah. And I'm looking at it now and if you want that one, you're not getting it till almost September . So that's that's the same issue. That's that's part of what makes me think, yeah, you know, it's possible that they announce these things and they say, you know, and they're shipping in two months or something. Whatever. Yeah. I did find that school district thing. It is Kansas City Public Schools. And they're going to over time, replace more than thirty thousand Windows, PC, and Chromebooks with uh Apple devices. That's awesome. And they've already ordered 4,500 Mac MacBook Neos for students in eighth grade and up. Good stuff. And then lower lower grades, they already have iPads stuff for lower grades. But so that's I don't know what how long overtime is a can mean anything. Um We're gonna see a lot more of that, although maybe in smaller numbers, but like spread out all over just because schools were not willing to go all in on a thousand dollar laptops, but when you suddenly tell them you can get they can get twice as many laptops for their dollar . Uh it's and and they're and they have that build quality that that 'cause that's all that's what it's all about. Like they don't want to replace they're tired of replacing Chromebooks. They're like, you can get my these we got these Chromebooks for two ninety nine each. It's it's whatever, but then people get into the workforce and they're not going to use Chromebooks, so that's problem number one. And problem number two is we keep having to replace them. So Yeah, there's a bunch of kids and you know they they tend to break stuff. Especially when it's not there. Yeah, right. Yeah. My son uh doesn't even doesn't even use a Chromebook and we got charged thirty bucks because he screwed something up on the one that he was issued. And I'm like, I like I you don't even use it. You don't even bring it home. He's like, Oh my friend did something. Like so you know these things have issues all the time. Yeah. Um the other thing we're waiting for is that ultra chip. So the the curr Ultra Chip is the M3 . Um like I said, if you go to buy a studio right now with an M3 Ultra chip and two terabytes of storage, which is common, you're not getting it till September from the Apple store. That's I mean it might arrive earlier, but that's the quoted shipping date right now. It's September 2nd. So it's possible you would get the iPhone eighteen pro before you get your Mac Studio. Which is crazy. So but as Jason was just pointing out, the RAM situation isn't likely to be solved by a new chip. In fact, it might be exasperated. So we don't know. That M5 Ultra chip, it might be on permanent hiatus at the moment because if Apple announces a new chip, and by all accounts it's gonna be quite a bit faster and and more capable than the M3 electric, because now we're talking two generations. The M5 brought a Uh and we had heard before that the M five Ultra was gonna end up being used in some servers, some of Apple servers. Like internal servers, yeah. They're internal private cloud compute servers for like AI inferencing and stuff like that to manage your requests. I'm not sure we we heard a lot of that before they struck the deal with Google and you know now they're gonna use some of Google's cloud infrastructure and uh I don't know if that's still in the cards or anything, but that's a whole other problem because now Apple's their own customer for a lot of reasons. They need RAM too. And they need RAM too. And they're these are gonna be really high RAM configurations 'cause So yeah. Boom is destroying so many things. I watched about five different videos this weekend about how uh all the various different computing industries getting destroyed by the the the demand. And it doesn't look like it's e gonna be fixed anytime soon. If ever yone it's kind of everything it seems like people are saying we don't want this. And the solution every every mega corporation has come up with is well, we're going to double down and continue basically just trading money between ourselves. Five companies all just like trading money between them selves. Right. And and we're just gonna double down and build bigger AI factories and bigger, you know, data centers and stuff. And that's it. I guess it's a Yeah, and NVIDIA just had their earnings last week and they like blew everything. But they blew past like all expectations because they got this whole thing cornered with AI graphics. So yeah, Apple's in a in a kind of unique predicament here because we got iPhone season coming up. There's a whole bunch of um products that we've been expecting for a while, like the home hub, for example, is well, we'll talk about that. Right. That you know, they say was delayed by Siri. Okay. Siri's coming. Now it's gonna be delayed because that thing's gonna need at least eight gigs of RAM. Yeah, is it gonna cost how much can it cost? Right. Right. So it's uh it's an issue. And I don't think I think Apple right now just gonna be like, you know, I just hold off on on everything. We're making tons of money. We don't need to release anything new. Just chill. And we will deal with this. We'll kind of kick that can down the light and poor John Turners will have a mountain of of of crap to handle in September . So on to software. Software we're definitely getting because you don't need extra RAM for software Mac OS twenty seven will arrive. Um we don't know what it's gonna be called, Roman. Do you have any guesses on the uh on the place name? So So the rumor is that it's not gonna have any major well it's not gonna have any major Mac features. A lot of the features that and we'll talk about next week are Siri based. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Right, which will affect a Mac. Right, which will affect a Mac. And we'll talk about that next week. But otherwise there aren't going to be any major uh Mac features. Some might even argue that it's been a while since we've had any Mac Mate features. But uh that's a different podcast. Um I was thinking I've okay with it. I was thinking that the name would follow the same pattern as like leopard and snow leopard and Sierra and High Sierra. Mm-hmm. But I don't know how that follows in terms of the theme of Tahoe. Could be Lake Lake Tahoe, right. That's the thing. Is it Lake Tahoe? Because now that was the thing. I was doing a little bit of research. Tahoe and Jason can help me out on this, because you can live closer to Tahoe than I do. I thought Tahoe was in Nevada before you guys start. Well Tahoe is the same. Tahoe is split. It's on the border of Nevada and Califor California, so it's actually in both states. So there's Tahoe City, there's Lake Tahoe. But there isn't is there there's not actually an a a city or it well it's is it Tahoe County, Jason, do you know? Oh gosh, I don't think the county is Tahoe. No, it's not I think it's it's I forget what I think. Right. There is a North Lake Tahoe. It is a tiny little town. It is it's a couple of ski cottages. So the term Tahoe is usually, at least f as I use it, uh and I think other people use it, refers to the area of Tahoe. It doesn't refer to a specific point. That's the the log you know, uh that I'm trying to get to. So I I couldn't figure out what would be the sub name of it. I mean Lake Tahoe works in that sense. It does work, yes. Right. Lake Tahoe. Tahoe City doesn't work. They wouldn't they won't name it w you know w something with a city name like that. So uh Lake Tahoe works. So it could be Lake Tahoe. Although that kind it that to me is also kind of I was just doing some quick uh Googling . Well, you were rambling, Roman. Yeah. Emerald Bay. That's what I was also thinking. Emerald Bay . I'm gonna guess. Let's let's put that I'm gonna put my flag in the ground. Emerald Bay is what is what they're gonna do. MacOS Emerald Bay, you think they're going with that? They could do that. I that's the other what thought I had was it . So Emerald Bay is like an island or something. Right. It's like an inlet. It's like a little bay on the lake. Yeah. Now the thing is according to you know past list of copyrighted names that Apple has uh filed for patents. None of those places are on there. But are they always c Tahoe wasn't there either wasn't Tahoe Tahoe was at one point but it expired, and then they used it anyway. So that kind of renewed the patent. Or trademark. Yeah. Or trademark or whatever it is. So I mean they're not bound by those at all. Sequoia wasn't wasn't on a list either, if I remember. Yeah. So that was my thinking in terms of the name. Has to do something with the Taha Maybe they don't do one. Maybe they say finally, like, I say that every year. And I thought last year would have been the perfect year to do that. unified the numbering and stuff. But they still did it anyway, and I feel like I feel like they're committed. Like you're so weird that they named the Mac OS and not iOS . Or anything else. Or that they keep doing this. Yeah, that they kept kept it up. Like I get it for Mac OS 10 when it was the big the only thing in in in town, sure. Right. And they charge for it. It was a big deal. But now, right? I feel like they only do it now so Craig Feder Feder i can do his little during the keynote. Yeah, it's throwing a bone to the longtime fans who would read into it that they're no longer naming it and they would say, you know, they're not they don't care about macOS anymore. Yeah. They don't care about us anymore. Let's let's talk about that robot. Um So Tahoe is is like I I don't want to say terrible, but it's it's not great. It's fine. Yeah. It's definitely not as good as it was like three years ago or three generations ago. I think the major problem with Tahoe is essentially liquid g glass, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so the reports are that Apple's going to tweak that in this new version of Mac OS, that they're going to uh maybe re have give you options to make refinements to the liquid glass I mean the only time I ever really see liquid glass on Mac OS is the control center and doc . Otherwise it doesn't really make itself known, at least not like it does on other it' its's I mean there. Yeah. But I don't use menus and stuff like I do on the iPhone on the on the Mac. What what bothers me about the Mac is it it like the consistency isn't there . Like the like corn ers are different. Scrolling is isn't right sometimes and it's just the settings is a disaster. I can't find it. Yeah, settings. Settings is one of the areas that's supposed to get a bunch of work. And spotlight's supposed to get some improvement too. They they did all that thing where they added all that stuff to Spotlight, all that smart stuff and actions and uh clipboard history. And those are really neat, but they're not very disc overable. Like you hit command space to bring up spotlight and it's not there until you like mouse over it, and then you get these icons on the side, and then you get a pick one. So they're the r rumor was that they're going to refine the spotlight experience more or that spotlight's just gonna bring up basically the Siri window, like the ch the the chat bot the new chat bot typing Siri window, and you can do all the spotlight stuff in it, finding all the it will have local access to your machine and you can find your files and do all these stuff you do. Or just chat was here . So we'll see. I uh I think there is gonna be plenty of like stuff in iOS I mean Mac OS twenty seven, but like Roman said, it's all gonna be the Mac version of the big new iO S features, all the new AI stuff. Like the photos will get the new photo things that they're gonna talk about in the photos app for iOS, it'll just get it with the Mac interface. What was the main fee? I'm looking through uh Mac OS twenty six. Was there any like Mac specific stuff other than Spotlight? I don't think so. Yeah, I think the spotlight stuff was the biggest. Yeah. This is just on a Mac thing. It was all those spotlight actions and clipboard history and stuff like that was that was those things were the big the rest of it was like UI stuff. The phone app that was Oh yeah, finally , app so like the you can answer call which I don't I I can't imagine anyone's really doing it. I I do FaceTime on my Mac all the time. I don't I never answer calls. Uh I I rarely answer calls, but I use that phone app thing all the time because I do the call screening thing. So it pops up the little notification when my phone rings and I can re ad the thing when they're saying who's I think I disabled all my all my notifications because I don't get I I do phone screen as well, but I don't get it on my Mac. Maybe I just never opened the phone app to set it up. But that feature, we should do a whole show on that feature because that's the greatest thing that app I mean listen, I know Android people will say Google's had it for years and they have. But man, it's so good. I get like 30 spam calls a day and I don't have to answer any of them. I know, me too. I'm I'm trying to find a way to make the number badge on my phone app not show when it was a when it was a spam call like all my unknown spam calls like I'll I'll see four there and I'm like but there are four spam calls I didn't answer. Just don't even show me the number. Anyway . So there's a phone app , uh there's they haven't mentioned it, but a couple things they're close to having that parity that I want, but there's still no wallet app. There's still no um health app. The health app's a big one. In iOS, if not initially, then soon. Maybe I'm my hope is that that comes along with putting the health app on your Mac because I would love that's one of those things like messages or something. I would love to just have my data replicated in both places. And if I just want to look up something and look at some charts and whatever, I'd like to be able to just do that on my Mac if I'm on my Mac . So all those kinds of things need some they still need to get the Mac version of those things. So this is the last Mac OS 26 is the last year for Intel support. Going forward, Apple's already announced this that macOS 27 and beyond will only be for Apple Silicon and the things that you were just talking about, Jason, I wonder if like that will enable Apple to by focus ing on only its own silic one-based products, that kind of opens up a whole new level now of support. Like kind of like what the chip did for the Mac, it led to better designs and more efficient stuff. Does the development of the OS, and maybe I'm off base here, if you're just developing for your own processors though does that like if you have to support Intel and Mac, uh uh Intel and Apple chips, does that kind of hinder development in any way? Or I mean make it more difficult Obviously, it's always just gonna be easier to support one chip architecture. But when it comes to something like could they have the wallet app or could they have the health app, I think that has to more to do with well, do they support chips that don't have a secure enclave and you know, stuff like that? 'Cause there's those things all rely on a lot of local data encrypted and private and they would have to sync that between your machines witho ut um without decrypting it and stuff. Which they can do and they do that with all your end and encrypted messages. So you do that in messages. It just has to be architected the right way. I do think, though, that that is part of this thing that we're hearing about how they're really going through a bunch of old code and cleaning up a bunch of old things, low-level things, stuff that's been there for a decade. They're just cleaning it all up, refining it, mi really focusing on speed, efficiencies and and reliability . Um and that's not the kind of thing you often hear them crow about at WWDC because it implies that it was ever not efficient or fast. But you could I could see them coming out and saying like and you get 10% longer battery life or some kind of thing like that. But that's the kind of thing that dumping Intel helps them enable because it's much easier to go with the Apple Silicon version of something and just focus on fixing that, not have to basically cutting out all the code that ever had to do with x86. You know? It's so we'll see. That's I think that's part of it anyway . That's part of their efficiency and optimization story that we're gonna hear about . Yeah, the quote that Mark German um like I don't know when this was. Sorry, Roman. I'm reading the your your story, but I don't know when this was. But it was it was recently. Apple is quote focused on improving the s software's quality and underlying performance. Engineering teams are now combing through Apple's operating systems hunting for bloat-to-cut bugs to eliminate and any opportunity to mean ingfully boost performance and overall quality. So yeah. Just like you were saying, and I wonder, you know, we were we we were talking last week, Jason, you weren't here about AI and stuff and Google and like we've heard how AI has helped f ot you know security flaws and things like that. I'm sure they could use AI for this stuff too to figure out you know how to optimize the code and how to you know find bugs and things that aren't security related but are performance related. So yeah um here's hoping that you know because I remembered I'm sure you guys remember I'm sure when uh Mountain Lion. What is it Mountain Lion? Star Leopard? Roman, what am I talking about? Star Leopard or Mountain Lion? That was one of those two. Maybe both. That what? You mean as a maintenance of that? That was like Yeah, that was like, but like a really like, oh my goodness, my Mac is so much notice ably faster and more efficient than it was. The one that really made a name for that was Snow Leopard, and that was back when they used to charge for operating systems and stuff. And it was kind of a big deal to go out on stage and say you know, this new release that wears I think they charge less for snow leopard than the other. They did. I think it was twenty bucks instead of like twenty or thirty bucks. But and and they but they had to get up on stage and sell the idea that like this doesn't really have much in the way of new stuff. It's just much faster and much more reliable and all that stuff because they wanted you to you pay money for it. So I'm looking for is I want to install mac OS 27 in September. I mean you know beta aside and like start up my Mac and be like, okay, this is like noticeably improved from uh Tahoe. Yeah. And I don't I don't even know where I'd notice the difference because I don't use my Mac and go this is slow. Sometimes I do. You don't have days where it just feels sluggish ? And that's 99.9% of the time that is the problem. Um my my Mac laptop that doesn't have any of that stuff on it. I no, the only time anything's ever slow is if I'm pulling from a network resource. Uh that's uh take the network is slow. It's not the thing. But there are I I there's always time to room to make it faster and I'm not using like a MacBook Neo. I'm not using like the bottom end of the stack or anything. So yeah. I think there's al there's efficiency is always good. It's always better. Right. Right. I mean I just this morning I had a problem with I had a like Paige's was killing my battery and and causing like those little two second little slowdown things where the little peace ball was come for a second and then disappear. Um i i I I don't think I'm alone. Roman, am I alone? Do you have problems with your with with computer? You might be alone, Mike. I mean there's no way. I mean I have a I have uh it's like an M3 Max or something. Like it's not Yeah, I I kind of with Jason, the issues that I have, I've been able to like figure out it's not the Mac, it's something else. Like it's n like it's the network or it's usually the network. Or there's some like you know, it's like I think oh I think there's like like for instance a browser. It's like, oh no, that's the browser, and then the browser's do its thing. So it's it's rarely Mac OS. Well sure. But mah I I blame Mac OS for panting the browser. Sure. But they can't fix that for you. Apple can't optimize their way around somebody else's . They can fix their own apps. I mean this this was a page's spotlight issue. Like they could fix that. Right. They can fix their own apps. So yeah. I have no doubt that there aren't hundreds of little bugs that rarely people rarely run into . But I also think that a lot of the times that whether it's Mac OS, Windows, whatever, I think a lot of the time when people have a problem, it's some other software causing the problem and they blame it Oh right. You need that when you're in the terminal. Mine's still black and white whenever I use it. Can I change it to a different ? Yeah. Maybe maybe it's user error. All of my Mac problems are my fault. Um what else, Roman? Anything AI stuff we'll talk about next week, lift with glass. Yeah. That's about all we know about about uh mac OS twenty seven. Right. Yeah. So the thing is a as we always say, you know, it th this is software we're talking about, so we're not gonna get any leaks from suppliers or uh snow leopard like maintenance release. And I think plus AI. Yeah, mm and AI. And the new series. I think most longtime Mac users will be perfectly happy with that. Right. The other thing is that there's a bunch of people who just bought a MacBook Neo and they want a bunch of new stuff on their Mac. So I'm curious to see how Apple sells that too. Well they'll get new Siri and that'll be exciting, probably. They'll have a built in chat bot and it has to be good. This is we'll talk a lot about that next next week. Like all this AI stuff will job number one is it's better it better be good. Yeah. Um but uh I'm interested to see what they do with I mean it's been a while since we heard this rumor, but we heard they're refining that the spotlight and making some things like that a little more discoverable and a little easier to use. I think that needs to happen too. So we'll see if that happens. We'll see what they do with the liquid glass interface and kind of I don't know, letting you tone it down or making it more consistent and usable . Yeah, I mean again, that's the least of my problems with with Daho. I mean it's fine. If they do I'll run up I don't care. There are there's a lot of people out there who just really want to. I use it all the time. Yeah. Whenever we mention Launchpad, you know, people I get the r we get the responses of you guys actually use that. And then the other side. Yes, I miss it too. So I use ex A all the time, but not never . Yeah, I use that constantly, the little the the swipe thing with the thing. Alright, we're gonna run over time. But I just want them to fix the icons. New icons are a disaster. They're very indistinct. They look like everybody else's icons. Right. It's a primary colors rounded pinwheel in a white icon. Like what could that be? That could be Slack, Chrome, Photos, Monday. Like everybody does that. Like, could we do something else with our icon? They did. Apple Apple's Mac OS icons were so damn they had so much character and they were so unique . And now it's they're just you're right. They're just bland. Right. Like apples themselves are like the worst. You know, they took away all the things that were popping out, like the little automator guy with his thing. Like that's all . Yeah, everything stays within the squirkle. Nothing like moves beyond the border and and nothing has any depth to it. It's all flat. And it's not just flat, it's the same thing everyone else is doing. It's red, blue, green, and yellow. A specific . Yeah. Should we move on to uh Apple history? So or do you wanna do an official wrap on on that stuff? No, no, we gotta we we'll leave it hanging because we're gonna be back next week to talk about the same stuff. So check out next week, we'll talk about uh iOS and Siri and a lot of the Siri stuff applies to Mac OS. Emerald Bay. Mac OS twenty seven Emerald Bay. Put the money on that. You're putting your money on it. Oh I should have looked up the polymarket on the right. I don't think there is one. There can't possibly be one. I would be surprised. I can't imagine. Between Jason Polymarket someone has gonna have what is Mac OS twenty seven gonna be called ? I can't imagine. I would I'd but uh they they they have so much everything. There's gotta be. Like anybody could just make one. I I just did a quick search on macOS name and polymarket. I didn't see anything, but you know, I'm sure if I poke down a little I might find something. Anyways. This week in Apple History is this week in Apple History we got a double so a one that a date that just passed and one that's coming up and they're kind of related. On May 17th, 198 3 , John Scully became the CEO of Apple . Formerly of Pepsi. Yeah, formerly of Pepsi, selling sugar water, but it came over to change the world. And then uh May 31st, 198 5 , Steve Jobs was demoted by Scully . Uh and then s as everyone knows , eventually Steve Jobs left a company uh few months later. So yeah, so those two dates kinda within two years of each other. That was one of those like we're not gonna fire you, but get the hell out. Yeah. I mean he was a founder, so you can't like fire them, but like he was never uh people forget Jobs was never CEO before he left. Right. Right. He was he just like was he president at some point or something? But that's a chairman, I know. But like the rest of the board kicked him out. But for a couple of years before the Max introduction, and for the definitely for the year following it, it's it's fairly well known that he was making himself pretty insufferable. I mean he was not an easy guy to work with uh uh s allegedly before that, but it had gotten worse and the teams it's it's hard to have a guy leading product teams when the product teams don't like their boss right at all. Yeah, uh Scully kicked him off the Mac project, notably. Yeah. That was the demotion was basically like you're not running that anymore. And he ended up at the Mac project after getting kicked off right. Other projects. Kicked off Lisa and he said, Well, we're gonna take Lisa's OS and we're gonna I'm gonna take over the Mac project from this other guy and we're gonna you know do it. Yeah. So yeah, it's tumultuous time. It's hard to believe, but the greatest thing for both Apple and Steve Jobs was basically the this demotion. Because had that not happened, had they kept up with them for even another year or three, like who knows what the rest of that trajectory looks like. But by getting rid of him when they did, you know, then next came and then he sold it next to Apple and the thing. But you know, the timing of this stuff is so interesting and so precise because a little bit different. He stays on until eighty-seven. You know, we're in a different era. Computing world, the landscape, everything moves so quick that Scully by Scully, you know, basically saying to him, all right, you know, like you're gone . It it saved everything. You know, it saved Steve and it saved, it saved Apple uh 10 years later. It yeah, it ultimately saved Apple just by bringing him back. Like Apple had to fall so far. But it was kind of interesting how um the demotion of Steve Jobs really coincided with the beginning of the end for Apple, like their their their big downfall. The Mac had just come out a year earlier. It took a little it proved to be very popular, but that was there was this sort of downward coast from that moment on, from a year after Mac downward, like there's this long slide between and they tried to solve it by making more and more products. That was their we just need the next big hit. We're gonna make every product in the world And I think if Apple learned anything coming back from that, it's that um a thousand no's for every yes. And and you develop a lot of products and you get them to the one And you never release it. You never announce it. It's just it never leaves the lab, right ? And that's happened a lot. Right. Like Apple's modern philosophy was really kind of crafted during the years Steve Jobs was away from the company and he saw, as Jason just said, like all the missteps, all the things they were doing that were you know, seeming like a little bit desperate, like, oh, we need a hit. We need something to work. Um maybe we'll license back OS. Maybe we'll come out with a with a with a handheld device that's not quite ready yet. You know, but we have to have something. And you know, like sometimes you just take a step back. You're like, you know what? L'ets work on one thing. Even if it takes an extra eight months to to come out and get it right. Yeah. Or we're gonna work on eight things, but seven of them will never see the light of day. Right. We don't have to release these. We're gonna release the best one, the good one. Um and that's happened a lot. That's one of the things people need to keep in mind when they hear all these rumors about all these things Apple are working on robots or whatever and stuff like that. It's like, yeah, they are working on these things. And a lot of these things never us That's one of them. Whether or not they have a prototype or not, you know. That has to be the biggest investment 's ever made in a product that never even got announced. Yeah. You'd think so. Like just in terms of sheer volume. Sure. Yeah . But um I you know thank you to John Skully for basically booting Steve Jobs. I'm sure it was a hard decision because Steve Jobs hired him. You know, it's got can't be easy to say to the founder of the company who brought you in, ceremoniously brought you in to say, Hey, all right, you know, you're done. That's a tough decision, but it was the right one . Uh let's move on to uh comment corner . Uh so this week's comments, we have four emails, and there's a theme to these four. Yeah. Uh there well there's a theme to these emails. So our first email comes from Ian I and he wrote, You'll get that outro one right one day, Mike. Uh our second email comes from Jeff Devia email. He wrote, I hope Michael Simon never nails the show. So you're putting a ton of pressure on me here, bro. Nails the show outro on the first take. It's kind of like the cartoon coyote catching the roadrunner. You want him to, but it's funnier when he doesn't. Lewis L. Via email wrote, I'm waiting for the day when Michael gets the outro correct, but in the meantime I'm enjoying his weekly flubs . Maybe uh maybe on episode one thousand he'll get it right. It's like a it's like a Marvel post-credit scene though. People have to stay to be in the final email comes from Evan R. He wrote, the day Michael Simon gets the outro perfect is the last day I'll ever listen. Well that's a ton of pressure. Now I now I have to get it right at the same time. Now you have to invent mistakes and stuff. Um that wraps it up for Comments Corner. 9 8 6 . Thank you, Jason. Thank you. Thank you, Roman. Thank you. I one just one thing I want to say that uh our sister podcast from PC World. So now you're screwing me up. So does this count as a screwed you I screwed you up here. So this account. So yeah. Oh it's all right. I also got the number wrong. It's episode number 985, I've just looked at So we got we got two things wrong and I haven't even started the dance yet . So speaking of episode numbers, like I was saying, uh the full nerd podcast is doing their 400th episode in one of these landmark episodes. They normally talk about stuff that's kind of out of the purview of like our podcast, but this podcast is supposed to be kind of like a free-for-all. So I'd like to encourage people to check it out. Uh they do it live, which is fun. They do it live on YouTube, which is fun. Uh I'll put a link to it. Check it out. Maybe it's not your thing. Maybe it is. They're good guys over there. But yeah, their 400th episode. It's nothing compared to our 9 5th episode that we just recorded. So I think it's a I think it's a two or three hours long episode. It's a two hour ep yeah. It's very long. Right. And they they take live interaction with with people. It's a different format. It's a different format. It's different way different content, but you know it might be up your alley if you're into super geeky tech stuff, especially graphics cards. So Thanks, Mike. Sure. I'm I'm gonna just gotta start over. Start over. Go for it. That does it for this episode of the Micro Podcast, episode number nine hundred and eighty five. Thank you, Jason. Thank you . Thank you, Roman. Thank you, sir. And thanks to you, the audience, for listening. I still say too I still have tuning in right written here. I guess they tune in, but I know they' s I know. This whole thing is your fault. I've made tweaks to it but I haven't done enough. It's only been like a year. It's it's not a little bit of time. You can subscribe to the Macro Podcast and the Podcast app on Spotify with video on YouTube at the Macro Podcast channel also at video or through any other podcast app. Are we g is Apple um are we gonna get video on the podcast app anytime soon, Roman? Because don't they support that now? They do, but not with our podcast host. It's kind of a they're still rolling out the hooks for some. Right. Uh and if you have any comments or questions, you can contact us through Blue Sky Facebook or Threads. Search for macro, look for the Blue Mouse logo, send us an email at podcast on macro.com, send us an email personally, uh comment under a video, comment under a post, send us your thoughts, and we will talk about them on a future show. And you can join us next week where we will talk about the second half of our WWDC preview, which will be iOS and watch OS and probably not TV OS, because I don't even know what they're doing over there. Definitely not Vision OS, because I don't even have one. But we'll talk about all the remaining stuff. Jason has a vision OS. He could talk about that. All the all the other stuff, but mostly mostly iOS. All right. See you next time. Hey, hang on a second, guys. I gotta press pause for a second. My dog is gulping and freaking out. So What do I do now? Do I wait? Do we wait? Well, I'll let it this part out. So unless or I could leave it in and we could just sit here and What if it's like a major issue and he has to take it to the vet or something? Yeah, it makes it it's kind of dramatic that way. I can leave it in the video. . Uh no she's got um she gets Alec an acid reflex thing where she starts gulping and uh dogs can get acid reflex. She has to go eat grass and everything. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yep. They can take pepsid and stuff too. No shit um how that's interesting. It's okay for them. But yeah, she has a it's it's just like people, it's like a your esophageal sphincter doesn't close all the way and then when you're laying down you get acid in your esophagus. She starts panicking and gulping and trying to chew on the carpet and stuff. So you have to let her out to like eat grass and throw up and then she feels better. Interesting. It's it's a nonstop. Having a pet having like a dog or a cat's like the greatest thing, but it's a nonstop. Yeah, no. It's like , oh, what's happening?